Title says it all, really
Money or patronage is no issue here as it's just for fun, so have at it :)
For me, the routes i'd modify are:
40/41. Modifications: Have a combined quarter hourly frequency to Walsall from Willenhall, Union St by running an additional 2 buses on the 40/41 as 40A's, following the 326 out of Lane Head then following the 41's route down the Lucknow Rd towards Willenhall and having the 40A terminate at Union St
Have Harborne Services go to the Markets, like the 103 (now 24) - but with all the Harborne Corridor. i.e. 22, 23, 24 (obviously), 29/A... Under a different number, of course...
Alternatively, introduce service 25. Markets to Weoley Castle, via Colmore Row, Augustus Road, then Harborne (via Westfield Road), Welsh House Farm, Quinton, West Boulevard, Bartley Green, Kitwell, then back round Bartley Green.
Quote from: clayderman on November 15, 2014, 09:04:46 PM
Have Harborne Services go to the Markets, like the 103 (now 24) - but with all the Harborne Corridor. i.e. 22, 23, 24 (obviously), 29/A... Under a different number, of course...
Alternatively, introduce service 25. Markets to Weoley Castle, via Colmore Row, Augustus Road, then Harborne (via Westfield Road), Welsh House Farm, Quinton, West Boulevard, Bartley Green, Kitwell, then back round Bartley Green.
I agree, a Harborne service could serve that side of town, but not all of them.
Service 25 wouldn't work with the route you've provided. It wouldn't need to go via Welsh House. And rather then Bartley or Kitwell, how about Quinton Church? Just a thought.
The 'missing' link between Mossley & Lower Farm via Turnberry in Bloxwich, instead of diverting the Cannock buses to serve there!
Quote from: Westy on November 16, 2014, 12:45:32 AM
The 'missing' link between Mossley & Lower Farm via Turnberry in Bloxwich, instead of diverting the Cannock buses to serve there!
Personally with that bit I'd run it so the 301 does it Clockwise and 302 anticlockwise as a sort of Lollypop style route.
I'd let NXWM operate the 10/H route
Quote from: the trainbasher on November 16, 2014, 12:56:13 AM
Quote from: Westy on November 16, 2014, 12:45:32 AM
The 'missing' link between Mossley & Lower Farm via Turnberry in Bloxwich, instead of diverting the Cannock buses to serve there!
Personally with that bit I'd run it so the 301 does it Clockwise and 302 anticlockwise as a sort of Lollypop style route.
I put a link
What would you say if the 301 and 302 was to link
Quote from: Sayeed on November 16, 2014, 05:07:37 AM
I'd let NXWM operate the 10/H route
I'm sure they would if they felt it was commercially worth it.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 16, 2014, 05:28:22 PM
Quote from: Sayeed on November 16, 2014, 05:07:37 AM
I'd let NXWM operate the 10/H route
I'm sure they would if they felt it was commercially worth it.
I think they tried pretty much everything to keep it commercially viable when they used to operate the 10.
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 16, 2014, 10:49:16 PM
I think they tried pretty much everything to keep it commercially viable when they used to operate the 10.
I agree, it was only used well at peak hours but they (NXWM) haven't tried 10H did they? I use that route often and seeing the loading towards Quinton is good especially it picks up well at Colmore Row and Harborne High St.
The only downside of current operator I'd say is not much recognised, I saw plenty of the passengers waiting at the bus stops by Morrison and at Broad St during peak hours and none of them raised their hands.
Put the old 007 back on between Bromsgrove halesowen & Merry Hill.
I'd also run the 125 into Halesowen instead of Stourbridge & extend that to Merry Hill creating new links for people in Kidderminster & Bridgnorth into Merry Hill.
Scrap the Sprint idea up the Hagley Road and just improve the current service! A little bit of bus priority from city to Edgbaston would greatly improve journey times during peaks, and some nice new Platinum Enviros wouldn't go amiss!
Quote from: N94 on November 17, 2014, 07:33:27 PM
Scrap the Sprint idea up the Hagley Road and just improve the current service! A little bit of bus priority from city to Edgbaston would greatly improve journey times during peaks, and some nice new Platinum Enviros wouldn't go amiss!
More new buses on this route, takes the nick much busier routes in need of a make over. West gets too much focus as it is.
Upgrade 16 and bring NXWM 4H to Hayley green to compete with diamond. Put b6s on 244, get rid of all Mercs. Make 9 all hybrids
When posts like this come up, I personally start thinking 'outside the box', and having read the proposals in the Birmingham Connected document, I really start thinking about the radical changes to local bus networks that will have to happen, as part of the 'grand' scheme for a Connected Birmingham. Rather than just making trivial suggestions which would only benefit myself, and not others.
Also, you have to start thinking about currently subsidised services, and how they can/could be incorporated into existing commercial services, to save money, but keep people moving at the same time. And you have to consider that it may be more cost-effective to have people transfer from one service to another, rather than operate direct services that no-one uses. And as far as the passenger is concerned, if they're already making two trips a day (to and from their destination), a Daysaver will usually be purchased, as that already works out cheaper than two single trips.
One I've just thought about, is the current 5 service between Birmingham and Solihull. Prior to the recent South Birmingham and Solihull consultation, one of the proposals was to split up this route, as not many people travelled the full length of the route from Monkspath to Birmingham, and vice-versa. That never happened, so lets just for a second consider my example proposition.
Lets break up the 5, but keep the route between Solihull and The Baldwin (Hall Green). But rather than continue on to Birmingham, where it invariably gets delayed with the rest of the Stratford Road and other city centre routes, it then replaces part of the subsidised 40 service up to Acocks Green, via Gospel Oak, Shirley Road and Dolphin Lane. The handful of passengers from Monkspath who do travel to and from the city centre, change onto a more frequent service at Shirley (the 6). Alternatively they could travel onto Acocks Green for the more frequent 37 service.
Acocks Green and Shirley do admittedly gain an extra link which is probably not needed, but part of one subsidised route is removed as a result. However Acocks Green does gain a link to the industrial area of Monkspath. (For the purpose of this example, I deliberately have not considered the remainder of the 40 route, as I don't personally use it myself).
This more local route, as a result of not having to traverse the Stratford Road close to city, and the city centre itself, does potentially become more reliable as a result of not getting stuck in traffic elsewhere. (I used to catch the 5 regularly from Cranmore, and it was not funny waiting nearly an hour for a 20min service at times, especially as I could have walked to Shirley or even Solihull in the same time).
But for sake of argument, if I did live in Monkspath and work in the city centre, I personally would probably be happier with this outcome knowing I could get a more frequent service out of city home, and then change onto a 'local' service, knowing it might be less frequent, but more reliable.
I hope this doesn't seem rambling, and makes sense to some people, we all have to understand that not everyone can be pleased at once, and not everyone is going to get a direct bus service from where they live to where they work, and it is inevitable that some people will have to make a change on their journey to get the best results for everyone.
Realistically:
Reroute the 3 to serve Solihull instead of/as well as Shirley Green
Fantasy:
Evening and Sunday service on the 129, between Queens Head and Birmingham
Extend the 952 from Perry Beeches via Old Oscott and shady lane to Kingstanding Circle, covering the part of the 997, and then the 997 itself can be a more direct service making it a bit more attractive for people in Pheasey and Aldridge
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 15, 2014, 09:19:26 PM
Quote from: clayderman on November 15, 2014, 09:04:46 PM
Have Harborne Services go to the Markets, like the 103 (now 24) - but with all the Harborne Corridor. i.e. 22, 23, 24 (obviously), 29/A... Under a different number, of course...
Alternatively, introduce service 25. Markets to Weoley Castle, via Colmore Row, Augustus Road, then Harborne (via Westfield Road), Welsh House Farm, Quinton, West Boulevard, Bartley Green, Kitwell, then back round Bartley Green.
I agree, a Harborne service could serve that side of town, but not all of them.
Service 25 wouldn't work with the route you've provided. It wouldn't need to go via Welsh House. And rather then Bartley or Kitwell, how about Quinton Church? Just a thought.
Possibly. A link between the Hagley Road & Harborne Services. I like it. I like it a lot. :)
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 18, 2014, 09:26:03 PM
Realistically:
Reroute the 3 to serve Solihull instead of/as well as Shirley Green
Fantasy:
Evening and Sunday service on the 129, between Queens Head and Birmingham
The 3 suggestion is very sensible, no idea about the 129 though!
Have early Hagley Road services go around Five Ways? Obviously when the service is operating off-peak on an outbound...
Have the Inner Circle serve Heaton Street again. There are still some erected bus stops & shelters. The Shelters are in good conditions, however, the bus stop poles could do with some TLC.
Quote from: clayderman on November 20, 2014, 08:45:53 PM
Have early Hagley Road services go around Five Ways? Obviously when the service is operating off-peak on an outbound...
What do you mean?
Quote from: ARJ2901 on November 15, 2014, 06:30:12 PM
Money or patronage is no issue here as it's just for fun, so have at it :)
Pure fantasy this day and age, but I'd love to see a 1986 Devon General style minibus network on the streets of Erdington and Sutton Coldfield. The Queen Street / High Street junction in the centre of Exeter used to be a bus-spotter's paradise; wall-to-wall minibuses in every direction ..... :D
Quote from: Ossie on November 20, 2014, 10:45:35 PM
Quote from: ARJ2901 on November 15, 2014, 06:30:12 PM
Money or patronage is no issue here as it's just for fun, so have at it :)
Pure fantasy this day and age, but I'd love to see a 1986 Devon General style minibus network on the streets of Erdington and Sutton Coldfield. The Queen Street / High Street junction in the centre of Exeter used to be a bus-spotter's paradise; wall-to-wall minibuses in every direction ..... :D
It was tried in 1986 and didn't work!
But it was a sight see them all parked with there roof vents going round!
Quote from: JoNi on November 21, 2014, 11:36:55 AM
But it was a sight see them all parked with there roof vents going round!
Aww yes I remember those! Good memories
Here's another one, this time on behalf of some of my school's students:
Have an additional service covering Wolverhampton-New Invention via the Lichfield Rd. Fir this, i would use number 88, have the service follow the 69 up to the turn that the 41 takes for Walsall, routing this service to use Stroud Ave, to give a quarter hourly service between Lodge Farm and Wolverhampton. From Lodge Farm, the route should turn right to serve Lane Head, then following the old 342 route back to New Invention up the Lucknow Rd, then just the inverse of the Wton-New Invention route back to Wton. This could be run half hourly, interworking with the 69 (would've suggested the 89, but as it interworks with the 8, in Walsall, maybe not).
Like i said, this is just for fun
I'd like to see the 192 extended back to Birmingham.
Quote from: sonic84 on December 05, 2014, 09:10:34 PM
I'd like to see the 192 extended back to Birmingham.
I agree, but when central connect did it, it wasn't the most reliable of services
Having witnessed more traffic chaos earlier this evening in Acocks Green, I think something needs to be done about the services that use Stand AL.
I could see a Diamond 30 already badly parked in the bay, presumably laying over. While at the same time a Silverline 36 was awkwardly positioned at the stop and waiting to make up time. So a NXWM 1 was having to load up in the middle of the road, causing a long tail-back down Shirley Road as no cars could get through.
The stop is overcrowded as it is, with the 30, 96 and 99 using it to layover during the daytime, as well as the frequent 1 and 31 and less frequent 36 services calling there. Maybe the Diamond 30, 96 and 99 should unload at stand AH, and then disappear down Shirley Road, turn round at the island, and layover at the stop there, before coming back to stand AL to load for their outward journeys?
I would make the 46 & the 654 one route by changing the 46 so it turns down Brichfield road towards Aston six ways and there it would run the 654 route, it will be the 46 and will run every 30 mins daytime frequency Monday - Friday.(uses 2 less buses)
Changes:
115 - 915, now runs along Aston Expressway instead of Lichfield road.
94 PB - BC
66A - 111
New Route:112 same as 66A/111 from Erdington - Court Lane, then Chester road, Kings road until Kingstanding Circle, then back to Erdington again. Runs every 30 mins Monday - Saturday Daytime, runs every 15 mins with 111 between Erdington, Goosemoor lane and Perry Common.
P.S. 112 uses the 2 buses left from the 46, 654 merge.
2 MORE NEW ROUTES:
992 & 994 using buses 4763 - 4776, operated by PB and the buses would transfer from WA - PB when the new platinum buses start service at Walsall.
992: same as 934 from Birmingham - Kingstanding circle then Kingstanding road, Cooksey lane, Wandsworth road, Bandywood road, Lambeth road, Romney way, Bonnington way, Wimperis way,
Beacon road, Collingwood Drive, Hillingford Avenue, Beacon road, Quesslett road, Old Horns crescent, Aldridge road, Beacon road and back to Birmingham.
994: same as 934 from Birmingham - Perry Barr (BCU) then same as 33 from Perry Barr (BCU) - Cooksey lane, then Wandsworth road, Bandywood road, Lambeth road, Quesslett road, Birmingham road, M6 J7 Island, then back to Birmingham.
Bring back the 123/450, and get rid of the 61/53, because a more frequent service is required between Smethwick and bearwood, and no one seems to use the 61 where people used the 123.
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 20, 2014, 08:50:59 PM
Quote from: clayderman on November 20, 2014, 08:45:53 PM
Have early Hagley Road services go around Five Ways? Obviously when the service is operating off-peak on an outbound...
What do you mean?
I mean have Hagley Road Services serve Five Ways (Tesco) & Morrisons instead of using the underpass...
Quote from: clayderman on December 11, 2014, 08:02:30 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 20, 2014, 08:50:59 PM
Quote from: clayderman on November 20, 2014, 08:45:53 PM
Have early Hagley Road services go around Five Ways? Obviously when the service is operating off-peak on an outbound...
What do you mean?
I mean have Hagley Road Services serve Five Ways (Tesco) & Morrisons instead of using the underpass...
Oh yeah I remember that... I think... It was when they was trying to save fuel and pulling away at five ways was drinking a lot of fuel so they sent it down the underpass.
I would introduce the route 95 to Chelmsley Wood going the same way as the 94 but instead of going via Chelmsley Wood North, the 95 just goes straight along the chester road and Moorend Avenue into the Wood.
Also I would introduce a Chelmsley Wood Circular service instead to go round helmswood drive and Yorkminster drive 96A, 96C
Quote from: Dutsey on December 11, 2014, 09:18:38 PM
I would introduce the route 95 to Chelmsley Wood going the same way as the 94 but instead of going via Chelmsley Wood North, the 95 just goes straight along the chester road and Moorend Avenue into the Wood.
Also I would introduce a Chelmsley Wood Circular service instead to go round helmswood drive and Yorkminster drive 96A, 96C
So that would reduce the frequency of the 94 through where most of it's customers are
So for one of the biggest council estates you would take their direct buses off to Birmingham City Centre?
Quote from: Tony on December 11, 2014, 09:22:45 PM
Quote from: Dutsey on December 11, 2014, 09:18:38 PM
I would introduce the route 95 to Chelmsley Wood going the same way as the 94 but instead of going via Chelmsley Wood North, the 95 just goes straight along the chester road and Moorend Avenue into the Wood.
Also I would introduce a Chelmsley Wood Circular service instead to go round helmswood drive and Yorkminster drive 96A, 96C
So that would reduce the frequency of the 94 through where most of it's customers are
So for one of the biggest council estates you would take their direct buses off to Birmingham City Centre?
Or I would rename the 97 to 96 and the 96 could go alon g helmswood drive and Yorkminster driver with the 97P turning into the 97. This would make it less confusing then what is running now.
Right about now, here's an idea for anyone fed up of waiting for a ******* WA41:
Change the 69 to have 69A trips to Willenhall from Wolverhampton, running along the 28 route from New Invention to Willenhall Union St, to give the link between Coppice Farm and Willenhall that has been lost since the 369 was changed
This would give a slightly better frequency (and it can't be anymore unreliable than the 41 is at the moment >:() from New Invention down the Lucknow and Ashmore Lake Rds
Quote from: ARJ2901 on December 16, 2014, 09:51:53 PM
Right about now, here's an idea for anyone fed up of waiting for a ******* WA41:
Change the 69 to have 69A trips to Willenhall from Wolverhampton, running along the 28 route from New Invention to Willenhall Union St, to give the link between Coppice Farm and Willenhall that has been lost since the 369 was changed
This would give a slightly better frequency (and it can't be anymore unreliable than the 41 is at the moment >:() from New Invention down the Lucknow and Ashmore Lake Rds
Is there much call for a 369 type route to come back, restoring a Willenhall to Sainsburys link?
What if there was an X33 - like there is with the X51. Have the X33 not serve some stops like Perry Barr, like the X51 does. And also, like the X51, have some journeys extended. Maybe to Queslett ASDA, or Great Barr?
Quote from: clayderman on December 28, 2014, 04:02:52 PM
What if there was an X33 - like there is with the X51. Have the X33 not serve some stops like Perry Barr, like the X51 does. And also, like the X51, have some journeys extended. Maybe to Queslett ASDA, or Great Barr?
That's basically what the 934/935/936 are!
Quote from: Tony on December 28, 2014, 04:12:48 PM
Quote from: clayderman on December 28, 2014, 04:02:52 PM
What if there was an X33 - like there is with the X51. Have the X33 not serve some stops like Perry Barr, like the X51 does. And also, like the X51, have some journeys extended. Maybe to Queslett ASDA, or Great Barr?
That's basically what the 934/935/936 are!
Oh, touché. My bad. :P
I would extend the 289 to RHH
Withdraw the 297 but re route and re number the 205 to serve current route from DY to Pensnett High oak then along Tansey Green to Gornal Wood then to Kingswinford via PN trading est and Dudley Road.
I've got to say clayderman I agree!
I think there should be a 'X33' type of service you know but maybe have a '933' kind of service instead so it serves lots more stops.
I mean it would be good to have a quicker service to Birmingham for warren farm as they only really have the 33.
I thought a '994' service same as 33 but goes to Scott arms and terminates there but goes on the flyover like 934.
I also think a '992' service from Birmingham same as 934 until Kingstanding then around Pheasey and then terminates at the Asda nearby.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on December 28, 2014, 07:16:58 PM
I've got to say clayderman I agree!
I think there should be a 'X33' type of service you know but maybe have a '933' kind of service instead so it serves lots more stops.
I mean it would be good to have a quicker service to Birmingham for warren farm as they only really have the 33.
I thought a '994' service same as 33 but goes to Scott arms and terminates there but goes on the flyover like 934.
I also think a '992' service from Birmingham same as 934 until Kingstanding then around Pheasey and then terminates at the Asda nearby.
Brilliant idea that, an express service that serves a lot more stops!
Quote from: richie on December 28, 2014, 05:25:59 PM
I would extend the 289 to RHH
Withdraw the 297 but re route and re number the 205 to serve current route from DY to Pensnett High oak then along Tansey Green to Gornal Wood then to Kingswinford via PN trading est and Dudley Road.
Why extend it to RHH, enough buses go there now as it is!
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 28, 2014, 09:49:27 PM
Quote from: richie on December 28, 2014, 05:25:59 PM
I would extend the 289 to RHH
Withdraw the 297 but re route and re number the 205 to serve current route from DY to Pensnett High oak then along Tansey Green to Gornal Wood then to Kingswinford via PN trading est and Dudley Road.
Why extend it to RHH, enough buses go there now as it is!
I thought the discussion was about sending more buses to Brichouse farm quite a while back
I tell you what, I'd like to see a Birmingham -> Lichfield service - via Perry Barr. Probably not operated by NXWM, possibly Diamond, or Arriva.
912: Birmingham - Perry Barr - Streetly - Aldridge - Brownhills - then Non-Stop to Lichfield Bus Station, via Sandhills, Springhill & Pipehill.
Just a thought. According to Google Maps, the journey should take around 51 minutes?
Well clayderman I think there should be a service that competes with the 56 operated by NXWM you know as there is no NXWM service on erdington road except on Sunday's.
Just an idea but...
Have a new division NX Staffordshire serving Tamworth, Lichfield, Burntwood, Cannock, Hednesford, Rugeley & Stafford areas.
I would like to possibly see the 82 during the day especially when there is traffic along Bearwood Road to do its current route into Bearwood via Sandon Road/Rutland Road (as I know it is changing yet again) and finish there by the banks. Then turn right and go straight back towards Birmingham.
If people complain that the 82 isn't taking them around the corner then they could walk or potentially wait for the 11 or 122 to get there. It could save some 82's from going all the way up to the bus station and also when there is 2 or 3 arriving together, it could create space between them too, which could help maintain the frequency.
Just an idea :)
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on December 29, 2014, 11:49:38 AM
Well clayderman I think there should be a service that competes with the 56 operated by NXWM you know as there is no NXWM service on erdington road except on Sunday's.
Oh yeah of course, Erdington road where hardly anyone catches a bus anyway. Do the current NX offerings of 935/6 not provide enough of a competition against Diamonds 56?
[sarcasm] I know, let's extend everything to Merry Hill [/sarcasm]
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on December 29, 2014, 11:53:37 AM
Just an idea but...
Have a new division NX Staffordshire serving Tamworth, Lichfield, Burntwood, Cannock, Hednesford, Rugeley & Stafford areas.
Almost happened a few years back when Arriva were going to sell their cannock operation to them....dont know which end pulled out or why it never happened.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on December 29, 2014, 11:53:37 AM
Just an idea but...
Have a new division NX Staffordshire serving Tamworth, Lichfield, Burntwood, Cannock, Hednesford, Rugeley & Stafford areas.
Yes and perhaps while they're at it they should create a division for Stoke On Trent, Hereford and Worcester, Rugby, Stratford, Leamington and Nuneaton infact why stop there, just run every other large operator off the road and have one bus operator for the whole of the UK and sack everyone else off.
What are you on? Have you doubled the dose??
Quote from: andy on December 30, 2014, 06:35:32 PM
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on December 29, 2014, 11:53:37 AM
Just an idea but...
Have a new division NX Staffordshire serving Tamworth, Lichfield, Burntwood, Cannock, Hednesford, Rugeley & Stafford areas.
Yes and perhaps while they're at it they should create a division for Stoke On Trent, Hereford and Worcester, Rugby, Stratford, Leamington and Nuneaton infact why stop there, just run every other large operator off the road and have one bus operator for the whole of the UK and sack everyone else off.
What are you on? Have you doubled the dose??
I think National Express is a good operator but operators such as diamond and arriva deserve a chance
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 28, 2014, 09:49:27 PM
Quote from: richie on December 28, 2014, 05:25:59 PM
I would extend the 289 to RHH
Withdraw the 297 but re route and re number the 205 to serve current route from DY to Pensnett High oak then along Tansey Green to Gornal Wood then to Kingswinford via PN trading est and Dudley Road.
Why extend it to RHH, enough buses go there now as it is!
Maintains a main road link from MHC and pleases the good people of mushroom green
Just something i was thinking of just, but:
If you think about it, on Sundays, the Manor hospital isn't too well connected as you only have the 335 that runs, the 38 and 336 don't have any form of Sunday service. If you compare that to New Cross Hospital where you have an hourly 28E connecting the hospital grounds to Wood End, New Invention and Willenhall, as well as a 59 to Ashmore Park and Wolverhampton every 9 minutes and an 89 to New Invention, Bloxwich, Pelsall and Walsall every hour, which run from outside the gates
Here's my idea:
Have an evening and sunday variant of an existing service (possibly the 40 or 41) which links the Manor Hospital to Bentley or Darlaston, Willenhall and Wolverhampton. The route i would have it take is Walsall Bus Station, St Pauls St, Townend St, Wolverhampton St, Pleck Rd (A4148), Manor Hospital (Stop MF), Moat Rd, Alumwell Rd onto Wolverhampton Rd (A454) then following the 529 route up to Bloxwich Ln then turning onto Churchill Rd to follow the 41 route up to Birchtree Hollow then following the 40 route out of Lodge Farm, then serving Charles St and Stringes Ln onto Lower Lichfield St then down Middlepiece Way onto the B4464 upto the island for the A454 and B4464 that leads on to New St and Vaughan Rd then following the 40 route to Wolverhampton Bus Station,
Have this running every hour to allow a half hour frequency to Willenhall evening and sundays
Which route would be the best?
994 Birmingham - City Uni - Warren Farm - Kingstanding - Pheasey - Asda Quesslett or
X53 Birmingham - Scott Arms - Kingstanding?
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on January 29, 2015, 07:51:01 AM
Which route would be the best?
994 Birmingham - City Uni - Warren Farm - Kingstanding - Pheasey - Asda Quesslett or
X53 Birmingham - Scott Arms - Kingstanding?
Are these not already served enough by the 33, 934, 935, 936, 997, 997E? How many more routes are required?
X53: Birmingham - Scott Arms - Kingstanding
Same as X56 to Quesslet road opps Asda then quesslet road to deers leap then down Cooksey lane then Kingstanding road to Kingstanding Circle.(buses torwards B'ham turn left at derrs leap, buses torwards Kingstanding carry on to the island and back up to the deers leap to turn left onto Cooksey lane).
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on January 30, 2015, 09:44:40 PM
X53: Birmingham - Scott Arms - Kingstanding
Same as X56 to Quesslet road opps Asda then quesslet road to deers leap then down Cooksey lane then Kingstanding road to Kingstanding Circle.(buses torwards B'ham turn left at derrs leap, buses torwards Kingstanding carry on to the island and back up to the deers leap to turn left onto Cooksey lane).
And what extra useful journey opportunities that don't currently exist would that provide
Bring back the old 44 service... Handy local links lost when that went...
Put 27 back onto Pamela Road, South Road line of route
Quote from: clayderman on December 28, 2014, 04:02:52 PM
What if there was an X33 - like there is with the X51. Have the X33 not serve some stops like Perry Barr, like the X51 does. And also, like the X51, have some journeys extended. Maybe to Queslett ASDA, or Great Barr?
Been tried before around 2008 as service 994 off peak linking
Streetly hardwick Arms-Kingstanding-Warren Farm-UCE-Birmingham
We need a proper express service to Chelmsley Wood to make a comeback! The 97 is supposed to be the quickest route from the City Centre to Chelmsley Wood and it takes me close to - if not more than - an hour sometimes to travel into the city. If there was a much quicker alternative straight from the City to Chelmsley then people could connect onto other services at Chelmsley Wood to other parts of East Brum, but it would still be much quicker than having to sit on a 97.
It could go down the Nechells Parkway with the Washwood Heath services, turn onto the Heartlands Parkway before Saltley Viaduct, come off that onto Bromford Lane and then the Fort Parkway, stop at the Fort (also providing a direct NXWM link from Birmingham to The Fort), then right onto the A452, then onto the Collector Road direct into Chelmsley.
There could even be another service that has more stops in between to run alongside it - it could use the Heartlands Parkway and then turn right onto Bromford Lane, following the 11 route to the Fox & Goose, with a stop by the old Bromford pub to have an express connection to Bromford. Then another stop at the Fox & Goose where it would turn left and follow the 70/94 route to the Clock Garage roundabout, turn left down Newport Road and join the Collector Road into Chelmsley. Or, because of traffic issues, it could stay on the Bradford Road with the 94 and then just carry on straight down the Chester Road into Chelmsley, not stopping though except maybe a stop for the Timberley shops and for Kingshurst.
Has there ever been a TWM or NX route between Brum City Centre & The Fort?
Never known one.
The only way I've got to The Fort in the past is the 966 from Erdington.
(Wasn't the 11 diverted there at one point?)
Quote from: Westy on February 11, 2015, 11:05:53 PM
Has there ever been a TWM or NX route between Brum City Centre & The Fort?
Never known one.
The only way I've got to The Fort in the past is the 966 from Erdington.
(Wasn't the 11 diverted there at one point?)
Not too sure if the old TWM express routes to Chelmsley made a stop at the Fort. If not, then no I don't think there has been from what I can remember anyway. And yeah the 11 used to go down there and stop at the shelters by the roundabout before turning round back up to Bromford Lane. the 68A/C used to go in there too.
Quote from: JB93 on February 11, 2015, 11:15:30 PM
Quote from: Westy on February 11, 2015, 11:05:53 PM
Has there ever been a TWM or NX route between Brum City Centre & The Fort?
Never known one.
The only way I've got to The Fort in the past is the 966 from Erdington.
(Wasn't the 11 diverted there at one point?)
Not too sure if the old TWM express routes to Chelmsley made a stop at the Fort. If not, then no I don't think there has been from what I can remember anyway. And yeah the 11 used to go down there and stop at the shelters by the roundabout before turning round back up to Bromford Lane. the 68A/C used to go in there too.
Yes, 993/994 served the Fort for a time
Quote from: JB93 on February 11, 2015, 10:54:43 PM
We need a proper express service to Chelmsley Wood to make a comeback! The 97 is supposed to be the quickest route from the City Centre to Chelmsley Wood and it takes me close to - if not more than - an hour sometimes to travel into the city. If there was a much quicker alternative straight from the City to Chelmsley then people could connect onto other services at Chelmsley Wood to other parts of East Brum, but it would still be much quicker than having to sit on a 97.
It could go down the Nechells Parkway with the Washwood Heath services, turn onto the Heartlands Parkway before Saltley Viaduct, come off that onto Bromford Lane and then the Fort Parkway, stop at the Fort (also providing a direct NXWM link from Birmingham to The Fort), then right onto the A452, then onto the Collector Road direct into Chelmsley.
There could even be another service that has more stops in between to run alongside it - it could use the Heartlands Parkway and then turn right onto Bromford Lane, following the 11 route to the Fox & Goose, with a stop by the old Bromford pub to have an express connection to Bromford. Then another stop at the Fox & Goose where it would turn left and follow the 70/94 route to the Clock Garage roundabout, turn left down Newport Road and join the Collector Road into Chelmsley. Or, because of traffic issues, it could stay on the Bradford Road with the 94 and then just carry on straight down the Chester Road into Chelmsley, not stopping though except maybe a stop for the Timberley shops and for Kingshurst.
The 14 is usually quicker between Chelmsley Wood town centre and Birmingham City Centre than the 97
Quote from: Tony on February 12, 2015, 10:31:30 AM
Quote from: JB93 on February 11, 2015, 10:54:43 PM
We need a proper express service to Chelmsley Wood to make a comeback! The 97 is supposed to be the quickest route from the City Centre to Chelmsley Wood and it takes me close to - if not more than - an hour sometimes to travel into the city. If there was a much quicker alternative straight from the City to Chelmsley then people could connect onto other services at Chelmsley Wood to other parts of East Brum, but it would still be much quicker than having to sit on a 97.
It could go down the Nechells Parkway with the Washwood Heath services, turn onto the Heartlands Parkway before Saltley Viaduct, come off that onto Bromford Lane and then the Fort Parkway, stop at the Fort (also providing a direct NXWM link from Birmingham to The Fort), then right onto the A452, then onto the Collector Road direct into Chelmsley.
There could even be another service that has more stops in between to run alongside it - it could use the Heartlands Parkway and then turn right onto Bromford Lane, following the 11 route to the Fox & Goose, with a stop by the old Bromford pub to have an express connection to Bromford. Then another stop at the Fox & Goose where it would turn left and follow the 70/94 route to the Clock Garage roundabout, turn left down Newport Road and join the Collector Road into Chelmsley. Or, because of traffic issues, it could stay on the Bradford Road with the 94 and then just carry on straight down the Chester Road into Chelmsley, not stopping though except maybe a stop for the Timberley shops and for Kingshurst.
The 14 is usually quicker between Chelmsley Wood town centre and Birmingham City Centre than the 97
With the current hold ups at the heartlands/ bromford lane at rush hour and pending jct 5 closure that route would not work for sometime. I don't ever remember the 993/994 serving the fort, must have been between 2000-2005 must have not lasted a long time
I think the 934/5/5A/6 should transfer to Perry Barr
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on February 12, 2015, 09:42:40 PM
I think the 934/5/5A/6 should transfer to Perry Barr
If PB lose enough routes, then that should happen, but they havent got the capacity.
(Im assuming if PB did have the capacity, we wouldnt have the current version of the routes? Part of the 934 replaced a Centro subsidy ISTR!)
I'd then move the 94 to BC
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on February 13, 2015, 06:56:51 AM
I'd then move the 94 to BC
So what would you transfer out of Central to have space for the 94?
Two new services I would think of adding would be:
114 - Sutton Coldfield to Castle Vale via Good Hope, Walmley, Pype Hays and Bagots Arm
76 - Sutton Coldfield to West Bromwich via Perry Common, Perry Barr BCU, Perry Barr to Handsworth - giving a direct link to BCU from West Brom.
I'd transfer the 70 to AG
So which route would you move out of Acocks Green to make space, and where would you have the relief point? Because of the length of the 70 relief points at either end are extremely awkward, hence why BC drivers change at the Mackadown.
I'd tack the Wrens Nest loop onto the 205 so the X96 would run Dudley - Wollaston Farm. That would give the X96 adequate recovery time at Dudley to allow for (the quite common) delays
Here's a wild suggestion: Guided Busways for Shuttles or Public Services at (Birmingham) Airport. Something like Cambridge's Guided Busways; something reminiscent about the 'Tracline 65'...
Why don't they move the 529 back to Walsall in replace of the 69 or 89
Quote from: leewhayward29 on February 18, 2015, 07:43:54 PM
Why don't they move the 529 back to Walsall in replace of the 69 or 89
What's the reason for that?
Change 81 & 82 back to what they where
so it would be:
81 Wolverhampton - Dudley
82 Bilston - Dudley
83 Wolverhampton - Bilston - Dudley - Merry Hill
Quote from: NXDom on February 19, 2015, 10:19:17 PM
Change 81 & 82 back to what they where
so it would be:
81 Wolverhampton - Dudley
82 Bilston - Dudley
83 Wolverhampton - Bilston - Dudley - Merry Hill
Hmm... I'm with you 50/50. I would like 81 to Dudley, 82 still the same like the old 544. Don't know about 83, probably be back to the old 283, either Merry Hill to Priory Estate or Merry Hill to Bilston.
Quote from: P419 EJW on February 19, 2015, 11:06:15 PM
Quote from: NXDom on February 19, 2015, 10:19:17 PM
Change 81 & 82 back to what they where
so it would be:
81 Wolverhampton - Dudley
82 Bilston - Dudley
83 Wolverhampton - Bilston - Dudley - Merry Hill
Hmm... I'm with you 50/50. I would like 81 to Dudley, 82 still the same like the old 544. Don't know about 83, probably be back to the old 283, either Merry Hill to Priory Estate or Merry Hill to Bilston.
Na Id have new routes and scrap the old ones
999 Wolverhampton to Coesley every 14 minuets
898 Coesley To Dudley every 19 minuets
Use X96 for merry hill
821 Dudley to bilston
821X Dudley to Wolverhampton
Matt NO I am not 18
Quote from: Matt on February 19, 2015, 11:26:25 PM
Quote from: Rhys S on February 19, 2015, 11:23:47 PM
Quote from: P419 EJW on February 19, 2015, 11:06:15 PM
Quote from: NXDom on February 19, 2015, 10:19:17 PM
Change 81 & 82 back to what they where
so it would be:
81 Wolverhampton - Dudley
82 Bilston - Dudley
83 Wolverhampton - Bilston - Dudley - Merry Hill
Hmm... I'm with you 50/50. I would like 81 to Dudley, 82 still the same like the old 544. Don't know about 83, probably be back to the old 283, either Merry Hill to Priory Estate or Merry Hill to Bilston.
Na Id have new routes and scrap the old ones
999 Wolverhampton to Coesley every 14 minuets
898 Coesley To Dudley every 19 minuets
Use X96 for merry hill
821 Dudley to bilston
821X Dudley to Wolverhampton
You been drinking Rhys ?
Lol, you a fan of the suggestions then
@Matt?!
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 19, 2015, 11:41:45 PM
Quote from: Matt on February 19, 2015, 11:26:25 PM
Quote from: Rhys S on February 19, 2015, 11:23:47 PM
Quote from: P419 EJW on February 19, 2015, 11:06:15 PM
Quote from: NXDom on February 19, 2015, 10:19:17 PM
Change 81 & 82 back to what they where
so it would be:
81 Wolverhampton - Dudley
82 Bilston - Dudley
83 Wolverhampton - Bilston - Dudley - Merry Hill
Hmm... I'm with you 50/50. I would like 81 to Dudley, 82 still the same like the old 544. Don't know about 83, probably be back to the old 283, either Merry Hill to Priory Estate or Merry Hill to Bilston.
Na Id have new routes and scrap the old ones
999 Wolverhampton to Coesley every 14 minuets
898 Coesley To Dudley every 19 minuets
Use X96 for merry hill
821 Dudley to bilston
821X Dudley to Wolverhampton
You been drinking Rhys ?
Lol, you a fan of the suggestions then @Matt?!
I wouldn't imagine so
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 19, 2015, 11:41:45 PM
Quote from: Matt on February 19, 2015, 11:26:25 PM
Quote from: Rhys S on February 19, 2015, 11:23:47 PM
Quote from: P419 EJW on February 19, 2015, 11:06:15 PM
Quote from: NXDom on February 19, 2015, 10:19:17 PM
Change 81 & 82 back to what they where
so it would be:
81 Wolverhampton - Dudley
82 Bilston - Dudley
83 Wolverhampton - Bilston - Dudley - Merry Hill
Hmm... I'm with you 50/50. I would like 81 to Dudley, 82 still the same like the old 544. Don't know about 83, probably be back to the old 283, either Merry Hill to Priory Estate or Merry Hill to Bilston.
Na Id have new routes and scrap the old ones
999 Wolverhampton to Coesley every 14 minuets
898 Coesley To Dudley every 19 minuets
Use X96 for merry hill
821 Dudley to bilston
821X Dudley to Wolverhampton
You been drinking Rhys ?
Lol, you a fan of the suggestions then @Matt?!
They sound viable :)
Here's a suggestion i think could be profitable:
893-Wolverhampton-RAF Museum Cosford via Albrighton and Tettenhall Wood, every 30 minutes on saturdays, sundays and bank holidays
Could be useful for the airshow, as there is only a 2 hourly train, and no bus service, on sundays
Only possible drawback that i can see is that only single decks could be used due to the rail bridge at Cosford
Quote from: Alex on February 19, 2015, 11:54:32 PM
Here's a suggestion i think could be profitable:
893-Wolverhampton-RAF Museum Cosford via Albrighton and Tetanhall Wood, every 30 minutes on saturdays, sundays and bank holidays
Could be useful for the airshow, as there is only a 2 hourly train, and no bus service, on sundays
I agree
Quote from: Rhys S on February 20, 2015, 12:00:00 AM
Quote from: Alex on February 19, 2015, 11:54:32 PM
Here's a suggestion i think could be profitable:
893-Wolverhampton-RAF Museum Cosford via Albrighton and Tetanhall Wood, every 30 minutes on saturdays, sundays and bank holidays
Could be useful for the airshow, as there is only a 2 hourly train, and no bus service, on sundays
I agree
And me, and as entrance to the museum is free, if NE (or anyone else for that matter) advertised it well and offered return tickets then it could
take off well.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on February 20, 2015, 12:28:06 AM
Quote from: Rhys S on February 20, 2015, 12:00:00 AM
Quote from: Alex on February 19, 2015, 11:54:32 PM
Here's a suggestion i think could be profitable:
893-Wolverhampton-RAF Museum Cosford via Albrighton and Tetanhall Wood, every 30 minutes on saturdays, sundays and bank holidays
Could be useful for the airshow, as there is only a 2 hourly train, and no bus service, on sundays
I agree
And me, and as entrance to the museum is free, if NE (or anyone else for that matter) advertised it well and offered return tickets then it could take off well.
Tut tut tut. The puns get worse and worse :)
Quote from: Rhys S on February 19, 2015, 11:23:47 PM
Quote from: P419 EJW on February 19, 2015, 11:06:15 PM
Quote from: NXDom on February 19, 2015, 10:19:17 PM
Change 81 & 82 back to what they where
so it would be:
81 Wolverhampton - Dudley
82 Bilston - Dudley
83 Wolverhampton - Bilston - Dudley - Merry Hill
Hmm... I'm with you 50/50. I would like 81 to Dudley, 82 still the same like the old 544. Don't know about 83, probably be back to the old 283, either Merry Hill to Priory Estate or Merry Hill to Bilston.
Na Id have new routes and scrap the old ones
999 Wolverhampton to Coesley every 14 minuets
898 Coesley To Dudley every 19 minuets
Use X96 for merry hill
821 Dudley to bilston
821X Dudley to Wolverhampton
Sorry but wtf is your logic behind this.
First a 14 & 19 min frequency would not work because they would be different times each hour.
Your numbers are flawed as WN now use the 2-digit route numbers.
Considering you questioned routes to Wolverhampton part of me doubts you know where Coseley is.
I've had a brainwave, I would introduce an express version of the 50, running from Kings Heath to town via Queensbridge Road, Russell Road, Edgbaston Road and straight into town along Pershore. Completely cutting out the Moseley and Balsall Heath traffic and I'd chuck in a £3 return ticket.
Quote from: trident4370 on February 23, 2015, 01:53:53 PM
I've had a brainwave, I would introduce an express version of the 50, running from Kings Heath to town via Queensbridge Road, Russell Road, Edgbaston Road and straight into town along Pershore. Completely cutting out the Moseley and Balsall Heath traffic and I'd chuck in a £3 return ticket.
Having lived on, and commuted on the 50 for several years a while back I have in the past wondered myself whether this would be viable. If it were, I think realistically it would only work as a peak hour commuter variant of the 50.
Quote from: Mike K on February 23, 2015, 03:16:16 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on February 23, 2015, 01:53:53 PM
I've had a brainwave, I would introduce an express version of the 50, running from Kings Heath to town via Queensbridge Road, Russell Road, Edgbaston Road and straight into town along Pershore. Completely cutting out the Moseley and Balsall Heath traffic and I'd chuck in a £3 return ticket.
Having lived on, and commuted on the 50 for several years a while back I have in the past wondered myself whether this would be viable. If it were, I think realistically it would only work as a peak hour commuter variant of the 50.
I suppose we wouldn't really know unless someone actually gave it a try, I'd like to think it has some chance of working though even if it was just a peaktime thing but I'd welcome it running all day, especially with the chaos in Moseley atm!
When TWM ran the 50A to Wythall what were the loadings like as think there is potential for an extension. I know Green Bus tried it and it didn't work but I think NXWM with all the possible connections to other parts could make it work, especially to serve schools around there. The Johnsons bus isn't very regular so there must be an opportunity.
Don't forget NX not that long ago did try something when they killed off the 69, and ran it every half hourly to Wythall from Brandwood but it didn't last very long.
Green Bus seemed to do terribly on there towards the end, although it probably didn't help the buses spent more time advertising the fares than the fact they were actually going to Wythall.
IF anybody was to have a go at Wythall, I would expect it to be Diamond more than NX, they already have passengers on the S3 so it would make a Diamond ticket more appealing. Plus with the 50 terminating just up the road at Maypole, running every other bus further down to Wythall every 30 mins would be easy. Now they have the monopoly in Redditch I'm sure they are kicking themselves for letting the 178/150 slip away in the first place.
Quote from: trident4370 on February 23, 2015, 07:45:45 PM
Quote from: Mike K on February 23, 2015, 03:16:16 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on February 23, 2015, 01:53:53 PM
I've had a brainwave, I would introduce an express version of the 50, running from Kings Heath to town via Queensbridge Road, Russell Road, Edgbaston Road and straight into town along Pershore. Completely cutting out the Moseley and Balsall Heath traffic and I'd chuck in a £3 return ticket.
Having lived on, and commuted on the 50 for several years a while back I have in the past wondered myself whether this would be viable. If it were, I think realistically it would only work as a peak hour commuter variant of the 50.
I suppose we wouldn't really know unless someone actually gave it a try, I'd like to think it has some chance of working though even if it was just a peaktime thing but I'd welcome it running all day, especially with the chaos in Moseley atm!
No one has really discussed a route number. I assume
@trident4370 and
@Mike K , we all (should) know that Johnsons run an X50, so clearly (seeing as the stop at the same stop(s)), that number is crossed of the list. Maybe 950? or X5*?
*though, could be mistaken for an Express [AG] 5
That's easy, 50A.
Could always number it 50x :-)
Id extend a few daytime X51s to and from Cannock. The last one at 6.55am is still wayyyy to early. A half 7 one would be a bit better. I got to go brum for work monday and a later last one from cannock would be perfect
Quote from: the trainbasher on February 24, 2015, 05:58:06 PM
Could always number it 50x :-)
If it was upto Centro it would be ;)
Nah, It isn't an "Express Route" in the typical sense anyway. It saves time by using a quicker route, not by cutting out stops, hence It's an A route :P Besides 950/X50/50X would just cause confusion for people wanting to travel to Moseley.
Quote from: trident4370 on February 23, 2015, 07:45:45 PM
Quote from: Mike K on February 23, 2015, 03:16:16 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on February 23, 2015, 01:53:53 PM
I've had a brainwave, I would introduce an express version of the 50, running from Kings Heath to town via Queensbridge Road, Russell Road, Edgbaston Road and straight into town along Pershore. Completely cutting out the Moseley and Balsall Heath traffic and I'd chuck in a £3 return ticket.
Having lived on, and commuted on the 50 for several years a while back I have in the past wondered myself whether this would be viable. If it were, I think realistically it would only work as a peak hour commuter variant of the 50.
I suppose we wouldn't really know unless someone actually gave it a try, I'd like to think it has some chance of working though even if it was just a peaktime thing but I'd welcome it running all day, especially with the chaos in Moseley atm!
How about instead of introducing a new variant of the 50, rerouting the 35 so that it no longer calls at Moseley, but runs from Kings Heath via Queensbridge Road & Russell Road and then along the current line of route via Balsall Heath to the city centre.
Quote from: sonic84 on February 25, 2015, 11:00:53 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on February 23, 2015, 07:45:45 PM
Quote from: Mike K on February 23, 2015, 03:16:16 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on February 23, 2015, 01:53:53 PM
I've had a brainwave, I would introduce an express version of the 50, running from Kings Heath to town via Queensbridge Road, Russell Road, Edgbaston Road and straight into town along Pershore. Completely cutting out the Moseley and Balsall Heath traffic and I'd chuck in a £3 return ticket.
Having lived on, and commuted on the 50 for several years a while back I have in the past wondered myself whether this would be viable. If it were, I think realistically it would only work as a peak hour commuter variant of the 50.
I suppose we wouldn't really know unless someone actually gave it a try, I'd like to think it has some chance of working though even if it was just a peaktime thing but I'd welcome it running all day, especially with the chaos in Moseley atm!
How about instead of introducing a new variant of the 50, rerouting the 35 so that it no longer calls at Moseley, but runs from Kings Heath via Queensbridge Road & Russell Road and then along the current line of route via Balsall Heath to the city centre.
That would be even better, especially for me, although now they have just been branded for Moseley I can't see it happening anytime soon :(
Quote from: DiamondDart on January 30, 2015, 10:10:52 PM
Bring back the old 44 service... Handy local links lost when that went...
Put 27 back onto Pamela Road, South Road line of route
I absolutely agree with this. I don't think the 44 has been adequately replaced since it was withdrawn and a local areas which had a direct route into the city centre were lost. I can remember getting the 44/44S/44T services from University Station and they were always busy.
I also agree with the 27 going back via Pamela Road.
Quote from: sonic84 on February 28, 2015, 01:44:10 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on January 30, 2015, 10:10:52 PM
Bring back the old 44 service... Handy local links lost when that went...
I absolutely agree with this. I don't think the 44 has been adequately replaced since it was withdrawn and a local areas which had a direct route into the city centre were lost. I can remember getting the 44/44S/44T services from University Station and they were always busy.
Though, I'd say it'd be 'smarter' to house the 44 at BC, instead of PB - if it were ever reinstated... Route number seems fine, as it were. Although, 98B, seems decent if it were to be renumbered - following the 98 to Northfield, or Longbridge...
To be fair, most of the passengers carried on the 44 from the city were students going to the university. They have now got more buses along that route every 10 minutes on the 98/99 services. As for the other sections, the only part that really misses out is from Northfield to Hawkesley/Turves Green but most areas are not too far from a city bound route or at least a connection to a city bound route, eg on Bristol road.
Interwork the WN 59/28 so the bus follows the 59 to Ashmore Park, does the loop and then carries on to Willenhall, then misses out Ashmore Park on the way back to Wolverhampton, (straight up Lichfield road instead of the loop)
528A Willenhall via Heath Town - Wednesfield - Ashmore Park
Quote from: Liam on March 31, 2015, 11:06:48 AM
Interwork the WN 59/28 so the bus follows the 59 to Ashmore Park, does the loop and then carries on to Willenhall, then misses out Ashmore Park on the way back to Wolverhampton, (straight up Lichfield road instead of the loop)
528A Willenhall via Heath Town - Wednesfield - Ashmore Park
Why? There would be no benefits. Do you mean as a seperate service to the 28/59 or do you mean join the two services up?
Quote from: Liam on March 31, 2015, 11:06:48 AM
Interwork the WN 59/28 so the bus follows the 59 to Ashmore Park, does the loop and then carries on to Willenhall, then misses out Ashmore Park on the way back to Wolverhampton, (straight up Lichfield road instead of the loop)
528A Willenhall via Heath Town - Wednesfield - Ashmore Park
Ok so what if someone in willenhall wanted to get to ashmore park?
28 to Wolverhampton
59 to Ashmore Park
Quote from: Rhys S on March 31, 2015, 12:16:17 PM
28 to Wolverhampton
59 to Ashmore Park
Why would you go in the opposite direction to then come back on yourself.
Both services work as they are.
The other issue I that one of the services is every few minutes and the other is half hourly. What frequency do you propose to have it at? The Ashmore Park-Willenhall section only requires an half hourly service but if you were to decrease it to every 30 then the other section of route would miss out on its frequent service (which is warranted)
Will nx ever do a service from Hagley/Kidderminster to Merry Hill bringing in more shoppers to the centre. But saying that i think Merry Hills operating to capicity atm. If intu gave a little bit of land next to the bus station to create three extra stands i think would help the traffic flow better
I'd extend the 1 so it actually goes into Shirley, rather than just touching the outskirts.
Have it continue down Stratford Road and turn around at the Staples island, like the 31 used to do. I know an extra bus would probably be required, but at least it makes the service a little more useful.
Quote from: Chris2301 on April 11, 2015, 11:46:30 AM
Will nx ever do a service from Hagley/Kidderminster to Merry Hill bringing in more shoppers to the centre. But saying that i think Merry Hills operating to capicity atm. If intu gave a little bit of land next to the bus station to create three extra stands i think would help the traffic flow better
Hansons did one a few years ago, route number 252 if my memory serves me correctly, but didn't last to long!
Hanson did operate the 252 back when the 125 was first extended to Stourbridge, but if memory serves me correct if on ran on the weekend. I think it took a slightly sufferer route to the 125 as well as it served the railway station.
If it was Monday to saturday it may have stood a better chance
With nx going to stafford and Hednesford with funding from i54, will they do a telford one 254?
Quote from: Chris2301 on April 18, 2015, 10:06:12 PM
With nx going to stafford and Hednesford with funding from i54, will they do a telford one 254?
No plans as of yet (i assume that means no!)
Quote from: Nathan on April 18, 2015, 10:12:18 PM
No plans as of yet (i assume that means no!)
I think nx might be testing with 54 and 154 for a while and if successful they might try a trial for telford
Quote from: Chris2301 on April 18, 2015, 10:23:26 PM
I think nx might be testing with 54 and 154 for a while and if successful they might try a trial for telford
As the 54/154 are funded by i54 then NX aren't testing for anything. They will be running a service they are contracted to do so. If the i54 project board decide they require a service to Telford then they will no doubt tender for it, NX would be very unlikely to just register a service.
So we are beholden to i54 whether these services continue or not?
316 Ikea bus again!
Quote from: Westy on April 20, 2015, 12:54:52 PM
So we are beholden to i54 whether these services continue or not?
316 Ikea bus again!
Except more people are likely to use the bus to a business park as opposed to IKEA. If people across the border start to realise that NX are still cheaper than Arriva, it may take off
Quote from: Westy on April 20, 2015, 12:54:52 PM
So we are beholden to i54 whether these services continue or not?
316 Ikea bus again!
Completely different scenario to Ikea.
You aren't talking about Joe Bloggs struggling to carry a flatpack table on an infrequent bus within a radius of 3 miles.
This has greater potential to carry significant numbers of workers from farther afield, spread across a wider window of operation.
A bit more politically sensitive than Ikea too!
One I've pondered for a while
Evening and Sunday services from Wolverhampton to Bridgnorth/Telford. When will Arriva suss out they could make money on it.
Or do other people think the council would slam down the idea?
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on May 03, 2015, 07:38:18 PM
One I've pondered for a while
Evening and Sunday services from Wolverhampton to Bridgnorth/Telford. When will Arriva suss out they could make money on it.
Or do other people think the council would slam down the idea?
I have always thought it could work. They already trialled a Sunday 890 but was every two hours. Needs to be hourly, even if they run it during the summer months
Quote from: Nathan on May 03, 2015, 07:45:19 PM
I have always thought it could work. They already trialled a Sunday 890 but was every two hours. Needs to be hourly, even if they run it during the summer months
It flopped because nobody knew about the Sunday service. I don't recall any posters or media attention at the time, just empty Versas
Quote from: Nathan on May 03, 2015, 07:45:19 PM
I have always thought it could work. They already trialled a Sunday 890 but was every two hours. Needs to be hourly, even if they run it during the summer months
In summer especially, if Arriva did a through ticket to include the Severn Valley Railway, it could be a nice money maker!
Stourbridge to Walsall reinstated? Was it shortened to dudley for reliability issues?
Quote from: Chris2301 on May 03, 2015, 08:13:04 PM
Stourbridge to Walsall reinstated? Was it shortened to dudley for reliability issues?
Yes, traffic congestion was a major factor especially during the major Burnt Tree Ialand works, but i think it has been proved that the 2 services run better seperately.
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on May 03, 2015, 07:50:14 PM
It flopped because nobody knew about the Sunday service. I don't recall any posters or media attention at the time, just empty Versas
Choice did come up with the 888 from Walsall one year.
Remember the one bus being rammed, with a duplicate operating as far as Perton!
Quote from: Westy on May 03, 2015, 11:39:13 PM
Choice did come up with the 888 from Walsall one year.
Remember the one bus being rammed, with a duplicate operating as far as Perton!
Wasn't that only a daytime service?
I'm OCD somewhat so I'd probably change the 11A/C to resemble a circle as near as possible ! Something that bothers me is that the 11A/C doesn't go to Smethwick, why I don't know but it bothers me, circle would be more complete I suppose,
I'm frequent traveller of the 97 and I would like it to go directly past BC.
These seem irrational but oh well !
Return the 19 service
If I was to be able to modifiy services in Dundee, I would get rid of the unpopular Friday timetables (the 2 main routes in Dundee - the 22 which Monday to Thursday is every 8 minutes, and the 28/29 which is every 7/8 minutes over the common section Monday to Thursday, but both drop to every 10 minutes on a Friday afternoon) and return them to the frequencies they run to the rest of the working week.
I would extend 122 to Four Dwellings Academy (through old 443 route). This would save me to change buses and it did had a decent loading when I traveled on daytime
Quote from: BusFan on May 24, 2015, 08:17:15 PM
I'm OCD somewhat so I'd probably change the 11A/C to resemble a circle as near as possible ! Something that bothers me is that the 11A/C doesn't go to Smethwick, why I don't know but it bothers me, circle would be more complete I suppose,
Bearwood is part of Smethwick.
The Outer Circle follows the route as it does, as it mostly follows the A4040 outer ring road around Birmingham - the main exceptions being where it passes briefly into Sandwell serving Bearwood shops, and between Kings Heath and Hall Green, and Acocks Green and Yardley, where it deviates from the A4040 to better serve shopping areas, schools and railway stations. The route is very long as it is, so I think it unlikely that it would be extended any further.
They should existed the 16 to west brom or extend the 42 to merry hill
Double deckers on the 55. Every time I see that route, it's packed
Lets have NXWM back on WN62/62A.
Reinstate the 62 to Finchfield but also extend it to Castlecroft
Reinstate the 62A to serve Perton
Run the service for a greater number of hours per day.
Would actually turn a profit I bet you my winter hat on it (choice of hats available)
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 04, 2015, 11:48:26 AM
Double deckers on the 55. Every time I see that route, it's packed
Whilst I miss double deckers on the 55, the only way to do this would be to swap routes with another garage. The only one I could think of is the 66 to BY. However that would only free up Omnilinks, so that wouldn't work. I also imagine with some 55's starting and finishing at Saltley first and last thing, it's more economical from BY.
Quote from: Gareth on June 04, 2015, 08:48:25 PM
Whilst I miss double deckers on the 55, the only way to do this would be to swap routes with another garage. The only one I could think of is the 66 to BY. However that would only free up Omnilinks, so that wouldn't work. I also imagine with some 55's starting and finishing at Saltley first and last thing, it's more economical from BY.
I've always felt the 28 should go to BY being Omnilink operated not to mention, its terminus isn't to far away.
But again, whatever route it's swapped with at PB will still be Omnilink operated. Unless any existing PB route can be single decked to allow double deckers on the 55.
Quote from: Gareth on June 05, 2015, 12:01:30 AM
But again, whatever route it's swapped with at PB will still be Omnilink operated. Unless any existing PB route can be single decked to allow double deckers on the 55.
May be PB can allow the occasional decker during peak times ?!
Has the X64 worked, since introduction freq reductions and as an X service doesn't seem to be that attractive down the Bristol Road really. What do people think?
Theoretically speaking, ALL of BY routes (8A/C, 17, 55/A) could be operated with deckers? But are not, due to garage height. ::)
Would be strange for me to see deckers on the 8. Though, not so much, would it be the Omnicities.
Quote from: clayderman on June 06, 2015, 11:19:28 PM
Theoretically speaking, ALL of BY routes (8A/C, 17, 55/A) could be operated with deckers? But are not, due to garage height. ::)
Would be strange for me to see deckers on the 8. Though, not so much, would it be the Omnicities.
I'm sure the 17 goes under the same bridge as the 71 somewhere along the route? I'm not sure, so don't quote me on that.
Quote from: MW on June 06, 2015, 11:50:49 PM
I'm sure the 17 goes under the same bridge as the 71 somewhere along the route? I'm not sure, so don't quote me on that.
71 used to go under the Mackadown bridge but the 17 still actually does.
Extend the Walsall to Beechdale shorts to Bloxwich by turning right from Bloxwich Lane onto Leamore Lane then turn left at KFC up Somerfield Road.
Or if the bit between Beechdale & Dudleys Fields is not heavily used, change the main service to the 69, including the daytime Sunday service & retain the Dudleys Fields to Walsall link by extending the 326 from Bloxwich, again via Somerfield Road & the current 2 / 2a via Leamore shops.
Or re-extend the 25 again back onto Dudleys Fields via Central Drive, or divert a few of the 'million' 301's via Dudleys Fields then onto Mossley!
(Of course, some of these can't be done until the Central Drive / railway works are completed!)
Quote from: Westy on June 07, 2015, 12:09:56 AM
Extend the Walsall to Beechdale shorts to Bloxwich by turning right from Bloxwich Lane onto Leamore Lane then turn left at KFC up Somerfield Road.
Or if the bit between Beechdale & Dudleys Fields is not heavily used, change the main service to the 69, including the daytime Sunday service & retain the Dudleys Fields to Walsall link by extending the 326 from Bloxwich, again via Somerfield Road & the current 2 / 2a via Leamore shops.
Or re-extend the 25 again back onto Dudleys Fields via Central Drive, or divert a few of the 'million' 301's via Dudleys Fields then onto Mossley!
(Of course, some of these can't be done until the Central Drive / railway works are completed!)
how would the 326 work with going to Walsall from Bilston, Willenhall and Bloxwich it would be a long route but it would be nice to have more buses going from Walsall to Bilston via Bloxwich, Dudley fields and Willenhall
Quote from: leewhayward29 on June 07, 2015, 02:00:44 AM
how would the 326 work with going to Walsall from Bilston, Willenhall and Bloxwich it would be a long route but it would be nice to have more buses going from Walsall to Bilston via Bloxwich, Dudley fields and Willenhall
Well that 25 takes well over an hour to do Bloxwich to Kingstanding so if a route like that can be operated .....
Quote from: Westy on June 07, 2015, 07:34:49 AM
Well that 25 takes well over an hour to do Bloxwich to Kingstanding so if a route like that can be operated .....
What would you have doing the route?
Quote from: leewhayward29 on June 07, 2015, 07:45:20 AM
What would you have doing the route?
Do you mean a particular vehicle type?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 07, 2015, 12:07:00 AM
71 used to go under the Mackadown bridge but the 17 still actually does.
The 71 goes under a low bridge in Castle Vale
Quote from: leewhayward29 on June 07, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Yea
Well if Arriva still did the route, the existing Darts would be suitable.
Same with Diamond.
Nx own existing small vehicles are already committed plus they probably wouldnt bid low enough anyway if they did bother.
S3 > Should be extended from Wythall to Redditch to offer more direct links to Solihull and then cut the Hockley Heath / Dorridge section. That then can be operated by the S2/S4 which could then can be extended to Hockley Heath rather than finishing in Dorridge and offer Hockley Heath a half hourly service rather than hourly one so win win situation if you ask me.
Quote from: Reece on June 14, 2015, 02:13:54 PM
S3 > Should be extended from Wythall to Redditch to offer more direct links to Solihull and then cut the Hockley Heath / Dorridge section. That then can be operated by the S2/S4 which could then can be extended to Hockley Heath rather than finishing in Dorridge and offer Hockley Heath a half hourly service rather than hourly one so win win situation if you ask me.
Something I've genuinely wondered about before is why something more isn't made of a Redditch - Solihull service, especially now with Diamond having such a presence in both areas.
I would have suggested either extending the S2 from Cheswick Green through Earlswood and Wood End (sizable population there without a reasonable bus service) or run the S3 more direct straight from Dickens Heath to Wythall and then as per the X50... Or indeed both, lol
Quote from: Kevin on June 14, 2015, 02:42:03 PM
Something I've genuinely wondered about before is why something more isn't made of a Redditch - Solihull service, especially now with Diamond having such a presence in both areas.
I would have suggested either extending the S2 from Cheswick Green through Earlswood and Wood End (sizable population there without a reasonable bus service) or run the S3 more direct straight from Dickens Heath to Wythall and then as per the X50... Or indeed both, lol
@Simon Dunn please take note the S3 would be an even more popular service if it extended to Redditch even if it was just a 2 month trial.
Quote from: Reece on June 14, 2015, 02:54:22 PM
@Simon Dunn please take note the S3 would be an even more popular service if it extended to Redditch even if it was just a 2 month trial.
Have you surveyed all these possible passengers? would there be enough of them to pay a high enough fare to pay the cost of an extra vehicle?
A two month trial is almost impossible to do, do you register it, then almost immediately deregister it to give the required 56 days notice of cancellation before you know if people were going to use it. If not then you have to leave it running for another 56 days at the end of two months costing a lot of money carrying no-one.
That is why most operators actually do a lot of research before starting a route and don't just do it on a whim, or a thought that it might work
Not too familiar with the Diamond services in the Southern Black Country/Kidderminster area, but is there any services linking the 2 areas?
I can only think of the 192 between Kiddy & Halesowen.
And the 147 Halesowen to Bromsgrove to Worcester
202 Halesowen to Bromsgrove too
Quote from: Westy on June 14, 2015, 05:50:42 PM
Not too familiar with the Diamond services in the Southern Black Country/Kidderminster area, but is there any services linking the 2 areas?
I can only think of the 192 between Kiddy & Halesowen.
The 580 to Kinver from Kidderminster which only runs twice a day.
@Reece No way would those kind of plans for the S2/S3 work - barely any demand really for Solihull-Redditch by bus - would be too long a journey to be worthwhile. Can't simply scrap the S3 Knowle section which is well used and vital. Hockley Heath already has a bus every half hour as well! If anything I'd want the 40A/40C reinstated. The S3 shortened between Solihull and Wythall/Dickens Heath, and the old 151 reintroduced between Solihull and Hockley Heath, although extended round to Cheswick Green either from the Dorridge end or Solihull end.
I agree with liberator. Having operated both the x50 & the s7 at Ampm. Oops sorry solihull travel.
We offered that tickets brought on either service could be used on the other so that people could travel from solihull to redditch & both services connected at maypole.
The amount of people that took up this option.
15 throughout the entire time we operated both routes.
Would the 80 work operated by Omnilink's?
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on July 27, 2015, 10:20:57 AM
Would the 80 work operated by Omnilink's?
No, it really wouldn't.
Extend arriva 115, Tamworth to Solihull via Coleshill, nec and airport?
Quote from: Buz89 on July 31, 2015, 10:29:24 PM
Extend arriva 115, Tamworth to Solihull via Coleshill, nec and airport?
Considering it has just been withdrawn between Hurley and Coleshill due to low passenger usage I can't really see that working.
Firstly, As the Platinums on the Birmingham - Walsall Corridor will start very soon, I would transfer 4527 to AG then I'd transfer 4528 - 4534 to Dundee via the Paintshop, to get painted into the new Dundee livery, and then send down 4680 - 4686 to AG for the 966. This would save sending 4680 - 4686 to the Paintshop for the new Dundee livery when they have just had a repainted earlier in the year. I Would next also decrease the 66 to every 30 mins an add a new service numbered the 69. This route follows the 66 until: Court lane, then Court lane, Chester road, Jockey road, Birmingham road and into Sutton Coldfield where it will terminate this would mean 2 extra buses. I would also transfer the X56 and 4733 - 4737 to PB so Additional journeys can be made as well as adding a new service called the X53 running the same as the X56 until Queslett road where it continues on to the Queslett Island (the one with the Queslett Pub), then will go back along the Queslett road in the direction of where it had just come until there is an opening on the left which takes you onto Cooksey lane, then follow the 33 to Kingstanding Circle where the X53 will terminate. (On return, go left onto Queslett road then follow X56 route to Birmingham). I Would then extended 2 of the X51 journeys an hour (Every 30 mins) to Cannock with the other X51's terminating at Walsall Bus Station, this would require 3 extra buses, which I hope they have which could possibly be the ones of the peak journeys that go on to the X56.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on August 01, 2015, 08:56:08 AM
My idea is to run a new service called the X54 from Birmingham- Wednesbury via Scott Arms, M5, West Bromwich and Black Country Spine Road. This would take about 2 hours and would need 6 buses at every 20 mins. My next idea is to create a 54 route from Birmingham - West Bromwich via Newtown, Perry Barr, Scott Arms and Sandwell Hospital. This would take around 2 hours and would need 4 buses at every 30 mins. My next idea is to change the 84 to U1 and have it as a 'Uni-bus' route like what stagecoach have done, I'd also have 4698 running the U1 and have 4698 branded for the U1. I'd also have the 76 re-numbered to the U2 and the WB 48 re-numbered to the U4. I'd also re number the 907 - 977 and create a new route called the 979 this route would go the same as the 977 from Birmingham - New Oscott then would go left down Kings road, then left onto Queslett road then round Old Horns Crescent and then back to Birmingham. I Would also extend the 33 to Asda Queslett (Old Horns Cres) via Hillingford Avenue, Beacon road, Queslett road, Old Horns Crescent, Aldridge road, Beacon road and the back to Birmingham. I Would also decrease the 66 to every 30 mins an add a new service numbered the 69. This route follows the 66 until: Court lane, then Court lane, Chester road, Jockey road, Birmingham road and into Sutton Coldfield where it will terminate this would mean 2 extra buses. I would also transfer the X56 and 4733 - 4737 to PB so Additional journeys can be made as well as adding a new service called the X53 running the same as the X56 until Queslett road where it continues on to the Queslett Island (the one with the Queslett Pub), then will go back along the Queslett road in the direction of where it had just come until there is an opening on the left which takes you onto Cooksey lane, then follow the 33 to Kingstanding Circle where the X53 will terminate. (On return, go left onto Queslett road then follow X56 route to Birmingham).
Who would benefit from your X54?
I think it's hilarious how certain people are criticising NXWM/Centro for changing services every now and then, and in the space of a few hours, you've already had a network review on this 54/X54 route. (See the quote in Tony's post above, and then the comment above that to see what's been changed in this review lol)
Edit: in the space of half an hour should I say
The 'U2', does that go "where the streets have no name"? ;D
Quote from: Stu on August 01, 2015, 10:38:11 AM
The 'U2', does that go "where the streets have no name"? ;D
Dead on time, with or without you.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on August 01, 2015, 08:56:08 AM
My idea is to create a 54 route from Birmingham - West Bromwich via Newtown, Perry Barr, Scott Arms and Sandwell Hospital. This would take around 2 hours and would need 4 buses at every 30 mins. My next idea is to change the 84 to U1 and have it as a 'Uni-bus' route like what stagecoach have done, I'd also have 4698 running the U1 and have 4698 branded for the U1. I'd also have the 76 re-numbered to the U2 and the WB 48 re-numbered to the U4. I'd also re number the 907 - 977 and create a new route called the 979 this route would go the same as the 977 from Birmingham - New Oscott then would go left down Kings road, then left onto Queslett road then round Old Horns Crescent and then back to Birmingham. I Would also extend the 33 to Asda Queslett (Old Horns Cres) via Hillingford Avenue, Beacon road, Queslett road, Old Horns Crescent, Aldridge road, Beacon road and the back to Birmingham. I Would also decrease the 66 to every 30 mins an add a new service numbered the 69. This route follows the 66 until: Court lane, then Court lane, Chester road, Jockey road, Birmingham road and into Sutton Coldfield where it will terminate this would mean 2 extra buses. I would also transfer the X56 and 4733 - 4737 to PB so Additional journeys can be made as well as adding a new service called the X53 running the same as the X56 until Queslett road where it continues on to the Queslett Island (the one with the Queslett Pub), then will go back along the Queslett road in the direction of where it had just come until there is an opening on the left which takes you onto Cooksey lane, then follow the 33 to Kingstanding Circle where the X53 will terminate. (On return, go left onto Queslett road then follow X56 route to Birmingham).
The 84 dose not need a double decker bus it currently uses scania omnilinks and if you have ever seen this service you will know it never gets a standing load and it is usally a rather quiet and empty service It dose not even get a full seating load so dose not need double deckers.
Extend the 34 to Wolves from Stowlawn via the rest of Green Lanes and the A41 (i.e. like the good ol' days when the 334 went via the same route back in the mid to late 90s).
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on August 01, 2015, 08:56:08 AM
Firstly, As the Platinums on the Birmingham - Walsall Corridor will start very soon, I would transfer 4527 to AG then I'd transfer 4528 - 4534 to Dundee via the Paintshop, to get painted into the new Dundee livery, and then send down 4680 - 4686 to AG for the 966. This would save sending 4680 - 4686 to the Paintshop for the new Dundee livery when they have just had a repainted earlier in the year. I Would next also decrease the 66 to every 30 mins an add a new service numbered the 69. This route follows the 66 until: Court lane, then Court lane, Chester road, Jockey road, Birmingham road and into Sutton Coldfield where it will terminate this would mean 2 extra buses. I would also transfer the X56 and 4733 - 4737 to PB so Additional journeys can be made as well as adding a new service called the X53 running the same as the X56 until Queslett road where it continues on to the Queslett Island (the one with the Queslett Pub), then will go back along the Queslett road in the direction of where it had just come until there is an opening on the left which takes you onto Cooksey lane, then follow the 33 to Kingstanding Circle where the X53 will terminate. (On return, go left onto Queslett road then follow X56 route to Birmingham). I Would then extended 2 of the X51 journeys an hour (Every 30 mins) to Cannock with the other X51's terminating at Walsall Bus Station, this would require 3 extra buses, which I hope they have which could possibly be the ones of the peak journeys that go on to the X56.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on August 05, 2015, 10:12:16 PM
I do not think 4680 - 4686 will come back down I also do not think they will go to Walsall to go to the paint shop I think they will send them to whoever did 7001 witch did not come down to Walsall to go to the paint shop I think 4527-4534 would more likely go to AG as National Express would not send them back down just because they have high backed seats the 966 is mainly Gemini operated anyway with the odd president dose it realy matter if they have high backed seats or not as it is nothing special.
Bring Metros back to life and have Tridents with roundel branding again. Then take out the MMC's one by one. Number 1 idea here I reckon.
I Would extend the 72E journey to go round the roundabout at clock Garage and go back down the Coleshill Road and terminate at the 11 stop at the Fox and Goose shopping centre. Then withdraw Diamonds 25 service and reroute the 38 to cover the Kingsbury Road to Erdington section of the 25.
If Harborne corridor (particularly for 22, 23 & 24) get upgrades again, I would transfer BC hybrids to Dundee and send their E400Hs to WN for 59
Quote from: Nathan on August 06, 2015, 11:00:24 PM
Someone who speaks sense ;) (Although i do like the Tridents on there)
Swapping B5s for inferior E400Hs? Speaking sense? Surely not. Besides, nice to have a bit of vehicle type variety in the West Mids.
Quote from: Nathan on August 06, 2015, 11:00:24 PM
Someone who speaks sense ;) (Although i do like the Tridents on there)
Imagine another upgrade for "Network Harborne", then I really would throw my toys out the pram.
Hope those Gemini IIs stay on the Harborne routes - wish WN had kept them - ride the 1 quite a bit and the Gem IIs were far better! Still have a feeling the Sutton corridor will kept upgraded in the next year or two - either normal MMCs or Platinums.
Quote from: Liberator9 on August 15, 2015, 09:12:18 PM
Hope those Gemini IIs stay on the Harborne routes - wish WN had kept them - ride the 1 quite a bit and the Gem IIs were far better! Still have a feeling the Sutton corridor will kept upgraded in the next year or two - either normal MMCs or Platinums.
I think that aswell platinum like the other 9** services the 97 has also got to be a candidate for MMC next year 12 year old Tridents running a 24HR service, they will be 13 this time next year
@Liberator9
New route from merry hill to Hagley every 30 mins during the day and once an hour during the evening. Numbered 278 or 11 (if the dudley review brings simple numbering structure)
@2206 Yeah I could see the 97 get some normal MMCs next year - it's a major service. Saw some of the 97 branded ones today and some of them don't look great.
Quote from: Liberator9 on August 15, 2015, 10:06:50 PM
@2206
Yeah I could see the 97 get some normal MMCs next year - it's a major service. Saw some of the 97 branded ones today and some of them don't look great.
As someone who's been using the 97 for the past 12 years, I hope so ! Its a frequent service so they'll need a lot but its due an upgrade although I cant really complain with the Tridents that are already on it.
@GeminiFan1991 Well hopefully it will be - would be good for you! I'd say there's a high chance that next year the 97 and 126 will be done - perhaps one other corridor as well. Will be interesting where the 16 61/13 reg E400s from WA go.
Quote from: Liberator9 on August 15, 2015, 11:04:55 PM
@GeminiFan1991
Well hopefully it will be - would be good for you! I'd say there's a high chance that next year the 97 and 126 will be done - perhaps one other corridor as well. Will be interesting where the 16 61/13 reg E400s from WA go.
I think the 94 has a chance next year aswel with Claribels competition on there saw the Gemini with the LED display yesterday it looks a mess. Maybe the Bristol Road aswell
Yeah the 94 of course - forgot about that route - so probably 97, 94, 126, Bristol Road?
Personally I would hold a new South Birmingham Review altogether, some services now are laughable... 1s, 3s and 5s nearly always running empty every 20 minutes. You don't see buses running empty in North Birmingham, they are put to good use on routes that work well for both NX and passengers.
This is completely off the top of my head but for starters how about...
Sod the pointless 1 extension off completely and return the terminus to Acocks Green.
Shorten the 5 to run between Birmingham and Shirley Green and just run the 6A of a morning and evening peak.
Introduce a new S5 Route to operate between Shirley, Monkspath, Widney Manor Station and Solihull every half hour.
Re-extend the 3 to Solihull only operate it down Blossomfield road and retime the 76 to provide a bus every 10 minutes to Billesley (should also help improve the current crap co-ordination of the 27/76).
Quote from: trident4370 on August 15, 2015, 11:44:50 PM
Personally I would hold a new South Birmingham Review altogether, some services now are laughable... 1s, 3s and 5s nearly always running empty every 20 minutes. You don't see buses running empty in North Birmingham, they are put to good use on routes that work well for both NX and passengers.
This is completely off the top of my head but for starters how about...
Sod the pointless 1 extension off completely and return the terminus to Acocks Green.
Shorten the 5 to run between Birmingham and Shirley Green and just run the 6A of a morning and evening peak.
Introduce a new S5 Route to operate between Shirley, Monkspath, Widney Manor Station and Solihull every half hour.
Re-extend the 3 to Solihull only operate it down Blossomfield road and retime the 76 to provide a bus every 10 minutes to Billesley (should also help improve the current crap co-ordination of the 27/76).
Either extend it to Shirley High Street/Shirley Green, or curtail back to Acocks Green
Re-route the 2 and 3 via Moseley. The 5 & 31 can run as they are, every 10 mins along Stratford Road
The 5 needs something doing - for a start it's a waste of deckers - aside from the peaks the upper deck is fresh air.
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 15, 2015, 11:57:36 PM
Either extend it to Shirley High Street/Shirley Green, or curtail back to Acocks Green
Re-route the 2 and 3 via Moseley. The 5 & 31 can run as they are, every 10 mins along Stratford Road
Yes I agree with that, I actually like that idea. I think they proposed that in the last so called Review but never delivered it. The 31 is fine now in my opinion it seems to be doing ok considering how it started, my only other gripe is the 5 I think the buses on there now are just wasted after Shirley.
Quote from: trident4370 on August 16, 2015, 12:02:03 AM
Yes I agree with that, I actually like that idea. I think they proposed that in the last so called Review but never delivered it. The 31 is fine now in my opinion it seems to be doing ok considering how it started, my only other gripe is the 5 I think the buses on there now are just wasted after Shirley.
I just think the amount of buses between Sparkbook and Birmingham is massive overkill. I've never really used the 5 that much to notice. I always see the 31 with half decent loads
I agree, I think the 2 and 3 would be better off serving Moseley and avoiding Stratford Road completely. In all honesty the last review down here was a complete let down.
I always thought the reason they had deckers on the 5/31 was that it helps alleviate single routes such as the 6/37.
I find that the 31 has good business could be busy although I tend to see the 5 being empty mostly. I suppose its existence is to provide a link between Widney Manor/ Monkspath to Birmingham/ Solihull. Having the said that I like these 2 Gemini operated routes. Never knew a bus could go through normal roads like these lot
People in Widney Manor who want Birmingham can get a train every 20 minutes that takes a quarter of the time the 5 takes, and an off peak day return on the train is only 10p more than a daysaver anyway, plus the 6A would run at peaks. Anyone wanting Solihull or Shirley would still have the S5 :D
Quote from: trident4370 on August 16, 2015, 12:29:59 AM
People in Widney Manor who want Birmingham can get a train every 20 minutes that takes a quarter of the time the 5 takes, and an off peak day return on the train is only 10p more than a daysaver anyway, plus the 6A would run at peaks. Anyone wanting Solihull or Shirley would still have the S5 :D
Those are perfectly cogent points although they're solutions for you and I, NX on the other by having the 5 go there also increases revenue from a business point of view they have a monopoly on the area. Not to mention its nice to see a NX bus that enters Solihull from the south as well.
A lot of the evening and Sunday journeys on the 5 are subsidised by Centro, hence it being around still.
All the drivers like the 5 route, you can really open the Geminis up, especially when your running late from Birmingham to Sparkhill ;)
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on August 16, 2015, 01:06:48 AM
Those are perfectly cogent points although they're solutions for you and I, NX on the other by having the 5 go there also increases revenue from a business point of view they have a monopoly on the area. Not to mention its nice to see a NX bus that enters Solihull from the south as well.
That would be true if the 5 did well, however in my opinion it doesn't. I also don't think many people now are using the 5 for journeys from Widney or Monkspath to Birmingham, the long winded route for a start is a put off not to mention the fact it is an hour each way and anyone who wanted Shirley Green Business Park or after a short walk Monkspath has a more direct hourly service in the form of the X20. Any profit peak time trips may be making on the 5 south of Shirley must surely be outweighed by the fact during the daytime and evenings it carries fresh air, if the S5 was a single decker operation you would be reducing fuel costs and running costs by cutting the frequency to match the demand, whilst still keeping the busy section of the 5 in tact. Those are just my opinions of course.
Quote from: MW on August 16, 2015, 01:27:21 AM
A lot of the evening and Sunday journeys on the 5 are subsidised by Centro, hence it being around still.
All the drivers like the 5 route, you can really open the Geminis up, especially when your running late from Birmingham to Sparkhill ;)
Don't get me wrong from an enthusiasts point of view the 5 is great, empty Geminis galore! I suppose if a lot of the trips are subsidised that makes up for the empty seats a bit, it's not like it is coming out of NX's pocket.
I remember my first journey on the 5. I took it as it said "Solihull" instead of the train station so I assumed a quick journey..... Oh how wrong I was ! It took me over an hour and a half to get there and I nearly got late for my appointment !
Having said that, I noted a few things, for starters that where I started to like Geminis, that first turn off Stratford Road onto Springfield was fairly tight, so is the Cole Bank Road - Sarehole Road junction (Both ways). I also liked how well the bus gained speed on the Monkspath Hall Road.
I think after the 70 and 72 the 5 is the next longest route between Solihull and Birmingham!
Yeah business wise it is a pointless route. During term time it does get full from Solihull to the Sixth Form but that hardly justifies it. The 5A is also decent during term time, as the whole point of it is basically for the people working in Monkspath and the students from that Sixth Form. Daytime I agree with trident4370. City to Shirley would be fine. The rest should be an 'S' route. Having said that I've noticed a bunch of people from Monkspath do catch it to City, but really, an S route to Solihull and then the 957 would no doubt be quicker if timed right, but it's inconvienient to change over I suppose. Hence why Centro subsidises it I imagine.
At the moment in the evenings, if the 5 was shortened to Shirley, or even The Baldwin, with a 6A every hour would probably be better. Or even all day.
There's also a bunch who catch from Solihull to Widney Manor Stn.
I must say MW I'm glad someone who actually drives the route agrees with me :D Really does defy logic how Centro throw money away like that and on vanity projects such as sprint, but that is a whole different topic altogether...
Quote from: trident4370 on August 16, 2015, 02:17:16 AM
I must say MW I'm glad someone who actually drives the route agrees with me :D Really does defy logic how Centro throw money away like that and on vanity projects such as sprint, but that is a whole different topic altogether...
It's probably how a lot of other government stuff is funded. They have a set amount of money and a time limit to spend it in. Probably just chuck it anywhere so they can say they've used it and get the next load of money!
From a NX point of view, they're winning anyway so I'm sure it doesn't bother them!
Quote from: MW on August 16, 2015, 02:32:03 AM
From a NX point of view, they're winning anyway so I'm sure it doesn't bother them!
That's probably why they are reluctant to change the 5!
Quote from: MW on August 16, 2015, 02:08:48 AM
Yeah business wise it is a pointless route. During term time it does get full from Solihull to the Sixth Form but that hardly justifies it. The 5A is also decent during term time, as the whole point of it is basically for the people working in Monkspath and the students from that Sixth Form. Daytime I agree with trident4370. City to Shirley would be fine. The rest should be an 'S' route. Having said that I've noticed a bunch of people from Monkspath do catch it to City, but really, an S route to Solihull and then the 957 would no doubt be quicker if timed right, but it's inconvienient to change over I suppose. Hence why Centro subsidises it I imagine.
At the moment in the evenings, if the 5 was shortened to Shirley, or even The Baldwin, with a 6A every hour would probably be better. Or even all day.
There's also a bunch who catch from Solihull to Widney Manor Stn.
I deliberately use it from Solihull to Shirley for the Geminis. I can see and agree with your point of view but a quiet route with good buses. Mits off, for now at least :)
I've suggested the 'S5' route previously, but personally I'd scrap the 40 route and incorporate that into the S5 also, so the full route is Hall Green-Acocks Green-Gospel Oak-Robin Hood-The Baldwin-Shirley-Monkspath-Widney Manor-Solihull, running shorts between The Baldwin and Solihull early mornings, evenings and Sundays.
Kills two birds with one stone, by combining two Centro subsidised routes into one - the 40 is hardly used as it is - also with the shortening of the 1, provides an extra daytime link from Acocks Green/Gospel Oak to Shirley.
Just a thought, I know it probably won't happen. ;)
Only a thought, not 100% on this.
Curtail the 75 to do West Brom - Birmingham, thus removing 74E's and replacing them with the 75.
Raise the freq. of 79 to every 10 mins to make up for the removal of the 75 between WB and Wednesbury.
Quote from: Dom on August 16, 2015, 05:14:34 PM
Only a thought, not 100% on this.
Curtail the 75 to do West Brom - Birmingham, thus removing 74E's and replacing them with the 75.
Raise the freq. of 79 to every 10 mins to make up for the removal of the 75 between WB and Wednesbury.
That way you end up with more buses than you need between Wolverhampton & Darlaston, and the people Between Wednesbury & Carters Green lose their direct bus to everywhere south of West Bromwich and I cannot see that anyone benefits?
I like the idea of NX of having an express route to Drayton Manor, extend it maybe to Tamworth.....?!
If I had a £1 for every one that asked me about a bus service to kiddiminster from merry hill
Quote from: karl724223 on August 19, 2015, 08:32:20 PM
If I had a £1 for every one that asked me about a bus service to kiddiminster from merry hill
I'm surprised no one has tried a regular daytime service
First of all, I'd give the 8C and 8A deckers, as the buses are really busy. I'd transfer the Scania's over to YW to do the 2/3.
Quote from: ronnoc1k8 on August 19, 2015, 09:47:53 PM
First of all, I'd give the 8C and 8A deckers, as the buses are really busy. I'd transfer the Scania's over to YW to do the 2/3.
BY can't support deckers due to height so I suppose an increase frequency may be the solution but I doubt they can support more buses either.
Quote from: ronnoc1k8 on August 19, 2015, 09:47:53 PM
First of all, I'd give the 8C and 8A deckers, as the buses are really busy. I'd transfer the Scania's over to YW to do the 2/3.
BY can't fit any doubles in garage, due to height of depot. There's a photo of a President on the 8, back when Hockley ran the route.
Quote from: karl724223 on August 19, 2015, 08:32:20 PM
If I had a £1 for every one that asked me about a bus service to kiddiminster from merry hill
Midland red used to run one in the 90s I think when MH first opened. The issue seemed to be that the free parking at MH made the car the preferred option for most and whilst at peak times there may be a decent load, in between the service wouldn't pay unless supported finiancially. Couldn't see Worcestershire council funding a route that took potential shoppers out of their county and doubt MH themselves would put up any money either.
The potential for the 147 to extend to MH in the future is good in my opinion and I think would attract passengers if it was limited stop between Halesowen and MH. Whos knows though!
Quote from: j789 on August 20, 2015, 08:04:05 PM
Midland red used to run one in the 90s I think when MH first opened. The issue seemed to be that the free parking at MH made the car the preferred option for most and whilst at peak times there may be a decent load, in between the service wouldn't pay unless supported finiancially. Couldn't see Worcestershire council funding a route that took potential shoppers out of their county and doubt MH themselves would put up any money either.
The potential for the 147 to extend to MH in the future is good in my opinion and I think would attract passengers if it was limited stop between Halesowen and MH. Whos knows though!
Realistically anyone going shopping to MH from KR would go for the day, therefore you would expect it to be quiet around lunchtime.
The trouble with extending the 147 to MH is would be yet another H'owen to Merry Hill service of which there are many.
Quote from: Winston on August 20, 2015, 08:14:18 PM
Realistically anyone going shopping to MH from KR would go for the day, therefore you would expect it to be quiet around lunchtime.
The trouble with extending the 147 to MH is would be yet another H'owen to Merry Hill service of which there are many.
How about Merry Hill to Stourbridge via X96 route. Then either A451 direct to Kiddy (Hourly) Or via Hagley and Blakedown to Kiddy via A456. (Every 30 mins to Hagley with hourly extensions to Kiddy)
Quote from: Winston on August 20, 2015, 08:14:18 PM
Realistically anyone going shopping to MH from KR would go for the day, therefore you would expect it to be quiet around lunchtime.
The trouble with extending the 147 to MH is would be yet another H'owen to Merry Hill service of which there are many.
True but there is not a limited stop service which could be a selling point. I think First are in a better position to offer that than NXWM or Diamond because it is there only service in the area so wouldn't need to lead to changing currently operated services to incorporate the new route.
What are people's views Cross city routes for Birmingham ?! I understand Wolverhampton has a few as well as other cities.
Complete no go for cross city routes in Birmingham - one problem on one end of the city means disruption for the rest of the route at the other end. With the traffic, really would be a nightmare.
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on August 27, 2015, 09:20:25 PM
What are people's views Cross city routes for Birmingham ?! I understand Wolverhampton has a few as well as other cities.
A few cities do have cross city services. None of those places as big as Birmingham. The downside to them are the obvious reasons (roadworks, congestion and clampets)
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on August 27, 2015, 09:55:33 PM
A few cities do have cross city services. None of those places as big as Birmingham. The downside to them are the obvious reasons (roadworks, congestion and clampets)
Isnt roadworks and congestion a problem for many routes anyway although I see your point. A full journey would take a good while I surmise
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on August 05, 2015, 10:58:51 PM
Bring Metros back to life and have Tridents with roundel branding again. Then take out the MMC's one by one. Number 1 idea here I reckon.
So you are:
a) going to hit rewind on the company
b) going to get rid of brilliant buses
YOU MANIAC!
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on August 27, 2015, 09:55:33 PM
A few cities do have cross city services. None of those places as big as Birmingham. The downside to them are the obvious reasons (roadworks, congestion and clampets)
what are clampets?
Quote from: Liam on September 16, 2015, 10:18:55 PM
So you are:
a) going to hit rewind on the company
b) going to get rid of brilliant buses
YOU MANIAC!
As much as i like Tridents, You can't beat a Metrobus (Well for me personally)
Quote from: Liam on September 16, 2015, 10:22:15 PM
what are clampets?
The only Clampits I know of are the private parking lot that used to clamp cars
Quote from: Liam on September 16, 2015, 10:22:15 PM
what are clampets?
Clampets is a black country term for chavvy, dippy, thick people.
Quote from: Liam on September 16, 2015, 10:18:55 PM
So you are:
a) going to hit rewind on the company
b) going to get rid of brilliant buses
YOU MANIAC!
I'd be re living the best days and getting rid of vehicles which are the future but if there's not as much fizz then you have nothing. In the same way that a lack of nostalgia leads you to nothingness.
I quite like the idea of a Chelmsly Wood - Brownhills via Chester Road
Just a thought !
Can't see there being any need for that one. I mean have you ever heard anyone in Brownhills say "hey love where you fancy going this afternoon, (reply) how about chelmsley wood darling ain't been there for ages" pmsl
Quote from: Steveminor on September 20, 2015, 09:59:58 PM
Can't see there being any need for that one. I mean have you ever heard anyone in Brownhills say "hey love where you fancy going this afternoon, (reply) how about chelmsley wood darling ain't been there for ages" pmsl
That's made me laugh trying to imagine that conversation lol.
Quote from: Mike K on August 15, 2015, 03:34:31 PM
Swapping B5s for inferior E400Hs? Speaking sense? Surely not. Besides, nice to have a bit of vehicle type variety in the West Mids.
With appalling seating lay out at the back of the lower deck and break no thank you I am very much happy with
inferior E400Hs
The only thing I love about those buses is the body, WG2
Been on 5405 & 07 yesterday, god how I miss them and considering they got more seats than B5LH on top deck, it still has decent leg rooms ...well for me
Quote from: Sayeed on September 25, 2015, 05:19:16 PM
With appalling seating lay out at the back of the lower deck and break no thank you I am very much happy with inferior E400Hs
The only thing I love about those buses is the body, WG2
Been on 5405 & 07 yesterday, god how I miss them and considering they got more seats than B5LH on top deck, it still has decent leg rooms ...well for me
I was thinking more of build quality, reliability, suspension, comfort, leg room. Don't get me wrong I liked the E400Hs but the B5LH seems all round the better option.
Quote from: Mike K on September 26, 2015, 09:30:21 PM
I was thinking more of build quality, reliability, suspension, comfort, leg room. Don't get me wrong I liked the E400Hs but the B5LH seems all round the better option.
I agree here, this is where I give the my thumbs to Volvo compared to ADL, I'll take a Gemini or B7RLE over an Enviro 200/400 anyday, Im starting to like the new deckers but the single decks still have their problems. I hope our time with the demonstrator proves fruitful for future purchases !
Operationally adl are much better than vol vo to work with
Quote from: Steveminor on September 27, 2015, 05:26:13 PM
Operationally adl are much better than vol vo to work with
How, please explain?
Well with the darts parts are available from a number of different suppliers whereas for vol vo you must go to volvo for the majority of the parts. Also adl products are less electrically intensive than other manufacturers I.e the dafs we have got are all electronic controlled gizmos even for the lighting so if you have a problem it's computer diagnostic & wiring rather than the bolts & spanners the darts need. Not a criticism as such but if a daf has a fault on road it has to return to the garage 9 times out of 10 so it can be plugged in to fault find whereas 9 out of 10 problems with darts can be sorted on road.
To be honest if I could have my own bus business I would chose Volvo products or scania products. I know cost can play a major part in the decision of purchasing vehicles. I will hopefully have or be part of the bus industry, but I will focus on my accountancy/financial career first to create stable fundings
Cost is only a minor consideration. The main consideration is how well you're going to be able to keep them on the road. For example a few years back sunny travel could have had the two csepal neoplasia free of charge, now that sounds like a brilliant deal & there wasn't much mileage on either bus & they looked good. We'd have loved to have them but the simple fact was where would we get the parts for them & how easy would they be to maintain. Simple answer was the adl product I.E darts would cost more but with a ready supply of parts suppliers they would be easier & cheaper to keep on the road. Volvo especially when it comes to a smaller operator is much harder to deal with & get parts for & scania well forget it.
Enthusiast liking certain types of bus & operational choosing a type of bus don't go hand in hand I'm afraid. I'd love sunny to have a fleet of volvos but is that the best move, no.
I would think nxwm would have a similar decision process & concluded the adl product is best & they have experience from all manufacturers so they're best placed to make those decisions. Any wonder why nx don't have any optare products any more.
I prefer Scanias and Volvos to ADLs - they just seem better quality. Certainly Volvos - know some excellent 2007 Geminis that ride far better than some newer E400s. Glad NX don't buy Optares - my experience of them has been fairly poor - SRs at Diamond have had constant issues.
the 59 bus from birmingham towards kingshurst especially between kitts green and shard end
id certainly reconsider bringing in a 55E to operate the route between kingshurst and shard end then via the 55 and 55A route , then redirect the 59 to the meadway from lea hall station via cooks lane to bacons end then to chelmsley wood via chester road to the interchange then operate aound dunster road terminating at coleshill heath road along the chelmsley road .
A 55, 55A & 55E . Think that might be a little overkill for that corridor.
Not sure I understand the logic to the 55e suggestion at all.
the 55 used to terminate at the mountford , it was extended to chelmsley in 1983 ,wmpte withdrew the 93 and tried to replace it with a 26 , a 54 was put in its place running at 15 minute intervals . the 59 in my mind was a badly thought out bus route where on wh buses solely operated . so you have 58 bc 60 bc 957 bc operated .since when had kingshurst been bc operated ,a 55e every 30 minutes could cover the 59 route towards morrisons then via the 55 and 55a .
I mean if the on the 55 corridor they are getting a better service that extends to the C. Wood and the 59 seems to be holding it's own. What is the benefit to anybody.
true mate i suppose its progress :) do you know anything about bus rotas monkey joe .
steveminor do you know anything about bus rotas .
trident any ideas how bus rotas work mate.
You talking about rotas or scheduling.
Every operator does their rotas & scheduling differently.
Nah wanted to do a Transport Management degree at Aston, but ended up doing a crappy business degree in the end.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on October 16, 2015, 07:37:17 PM
Nah wanted to do a Transport Management degree at Aston, but ended up doing a crappy business degree in the end.
Good degree the Aston University Transport Management was, graduated in 2003 from Aston on that course. Taught me a lot!
Gutted thinking back actually turned it down and MAS at Aston instead, just think i could be running my own East Brum network by now lol
The thing with those courses is they teach you the legal side (which is good) but the rest is basically how things should be & should work. Things are so much different in the real world which is why it'd be worth doing an appretiship with someone like nxwm or diamond or both. Either way you always find you will develop your own style & put your own stamp on things.
the 97 bus up till about a few months ago the 97 did a loop running from chelmsley wood via yorkminster towards the terminus at coleshill heath road then chelmsley road helmswood drive greenlands road back to chelmsley but part of the route was curtailed and the 14 took its place along yorkminster leaving route 97 at coleshill heath, instead of this why not have the 97 pass coleshill heath and terminate at yorkminster and a 97 going the opposite direction and terminating at coleshill heath and that way youd still have a loop and put the 14 route back to the interchange .
The 97 used to do that however passengers would be confused as to which way each bus was going & it meant since there was almost always someone on the bus the drivers had no layover or time to themselves.
So I'd disagree with that it's a bad idea.
bring back the 96 that used to operate along yorkminster and leave the 97 as it is ,what im saying is the 97 terminates at helmswood drive it could run to yorkminster drive in 2 minutes and vice versa , saving time and effort .
Now that's a better idea reintroduce the 96 every 8 mins to yorkminster drive & leave the 97 every 8 mins to helmswood drive main route from pine square to city still a joint 4 min frequency & same pvr requirement. But now 14 only goes to pine square you save 2 buses.
Quote from: Steveminor on October 19, 2015, 03:38:26 PM
Now that's a better idea reintroduce the 96 every 8 mins to yorkminster drive & leave the 97 every 8 mins to helmswood drive main route from pine square to city still a joint 4 min frequency & same pvr requirement. But now 14 only goes to pine square you save 2 buses.
Would you still have the 96 go down Cattell Road like it used to ?!
at last geminifan we are in the wrong job mate i very much agree with you a 96 and a 97 along with the 96 running along cattell road .
Yes I would put it back as it used to be but at the enhanced frequency.
I quite like the idea of reintroducing the 96, get them branded and on the road !
geminifan are you a driver
Quote from: iansdavies on October 20, 2015, 10:42:10 AM
geminifan are you a driver
Suddenly now expecting another question of "how do the rotas work"
Quote from: iansdavies on October 20, 2015, 10:42:10 AM
geminifan are you a driver
Sadly no, just your run of mill enthusiast who likes to visit garages
my rotas gemini are 100 till 900 4 days and 100 till 700 friday so thats 4 lots of 7h 30m and 6h totaling 36 hours lols
I think rather than this silly and long winded extension of the 904 to Minworth bring back a 915 running alongside the 914 but following the 116 route to Minworth after the expressway and then either take it to Sutton from there via Walmley or maybe even have a route going into Kingsbury to compete fully with the 116 (maybe a 916). Or could have a new route from city via saltley, washwood heath, turn left at fox and goose down Bromford Lane, to the Fort shopping park, through to castle vale, then to minworth asda, then walmley and terminate at Sutton. Creates new links and a faster alternative to minworth than the 904.
Keep the 81 as it is today on its diversion. Missing out Swan Village and continuing straight up BNR. Would cut out a good 5 mins making time keeping easier. Especially after this past few days.
I would scrap the changes that are going to be made to the 129 either leaving it as it is now, or withdrawing it, thereby increasing the 48 to every 15/20 minutes, at least between West Brom and Bearwood, completely scrap the idea to run it using single decks, which is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. Curtail the 46 back to West Brom (to Scott Arms/Queslett). Bring back the 444, (renumbered 50), it created so many useful links, particularly Bearwood to Smethwick, there was no good reason for withdrawal. Get the 89 going down St Paul's Road again so those passengers get their direct service to Oldbury back
As the changes to the 46, 53 and 129 seem to have divided opinion, I would instead have done the following changes.
Withdraw the 46 between Londonderry and West Bromwich. A significant amount of journeys didn't run through to Great Barr anyway.
Reintroduce the 123 which would run as the 53 between Merry Hill and Bearwood, and then as the 127/128 between Bearwood and Birmingham. This maintains the 10 min frequency on that section of the route, but Londonderry keeps their link to Merry Hill.
Then either introduce 48E routes to cover the gap over the West Brom to Bearwood section and have the 50 cover the West Brom to Bearwood section of the 53.
Personally the 89 serves Londonderry to Gslton Bridge which is a good route. I'd have the 50 go along the high street up stony lane Devonshire (a hill btw) and onto holly lane onwards (as the 444 used to serve this and there is current no Bearwood service on this whole High Street Section. Either that or go via Londonderry Lane giving that section a Bearwood West Brom service, get the 128 to go to Holly Lane Devonshire and High St via Stony Lane and it could still go via St Pauls to Oldbury and even Blackheath giving the High Street still a Oldbury/Blackheath and Bearwood service and the 89 to go to Londonderry and Brookfields aka current 128 route to Oldbury as by me the 89 is 45mins as its journey is too long
Previously the 444 did galton bridge as did the 448A and B of a night and now I avoid Galton Bridge due to lack of West Smethwick bus services so I go to Trinity Way. They should have a Bearwood 30min service. I my road (a hill and in my opinion a more vital link) should have a Igo service (if not National Express) to Bearwood to Oldbury even hourly would be an improvement. Id say all roads need Bearwood Oldbury and West Bromwich services too many are Birmingham ones and if it goes to Birmingham have it go to a number of destinations to link folk in between like the 120
Id actually have a bus via dudley rd go to blackheath and merry hill currently there is zero Merry Hill service on Smethwick High St and when the new hospital in Cape Hill is built Blackheath and Smethwick High St needs connecting better as the 89 takes too long similar to a 4M service why the 129 just does Bearwood (only a tiny bit of Smethwick) i dont know the rest of Smethwick loses out. Id have it come up Abbey Rd then up straight via Galton Bridge and onto West Brom Oldbury and the Blackheath via Causeway as this currently has no Blackheath service only the 49 which serves West Brom and Bearwood it would also give Rowley Station a better Smethwick West Brom Oldbury link as currently you cannot get to Rowley Regis station in Langley Green.
So, with the forthcoming replacement of the 141 with an X10 and a joint 10 mins frequency between that and the improved 4M as far as Old Hill, my mind has run riot with thoughts...
Renumber the 4M as an X4 and run it limited stop along the northern section of the route, and run both routes as Platinum standard from Pensnett garage
Extend the X51 to Cannock every 30 minutes, did but this down in the review. NXWM would make a killing both on journeys from Cannock to Walsall & Cannock-Walsall-Birmingham cannot believe they missed this chance.
Quote from: woody38 on June 18, 2016, 08:10:34 PM
Extend the X51 to Cannock every 30 minutes, did but this down in the review. NXWM would make a killing both on journeys from Cannock to Walsall & Cannock-Walsall-Birmingham cannot believe they missed this chance.
They have several times.
I've made suggestions for the Leamore area in the past, & they've been ignored.
Quote from: clayderman on November 15, 2014, 09:04:46 PM
Have Harborne Services go to the Markets, like the 103 (now 24) - but with all the Harborne Corridor. i.e. 22, 23, 24 (obviously), 29/A... Under a different number, of course...
Alternatively, introduce service 25. Markets to Weoley Castle, via Colmore Row, Augustus Road, then Harborne (via Westfield Road), Welsh House Farm, Quinton, West Boulevard, Bartley Green, Kitwell, then back round Bartley Green.
This now happens stops on bridge close to markets outbound journey since 2015
Quote from: wembley86 on June 19, 2016, 09:01:47 AM
This now happens stops on bridge close to markets outbound journey since 2015
As a regular on the 24, I'm quite aware, lol. ;) Personally, I find these (extra) stops around the City Centre useful - despite the fact that it adds an average of 4-6 minutes to my journey, give or take; slightly annoying if i'm running late.. But I appreciate the new route, as it gives me access to much more of the City Centre.
If Wednesfield arriva close down. Would the 326 go to cannock garage or would network west midlands put it up for a New operator for this service?
Quote from: leewhayward29 on July 01, 2016, 09:10:18 PM
If Wednesfield arriva close down. Would the 326 go to cannock garage or would network west midlands put it up for a New operator for this service?
I suppose depending on how the contracts have left to run, that Cannock would run the routes until the contracts end, then wouldnt put up for them again.
The northern most ones, the Wolves & Walsall northern area ones they might have a crack at again, but cant see it meself.
Quote from: Westy on July 01, 2016, 10:49:04 PM
I suppose depending on how the contracts have left to run, that Cannock would run the routes until the contracts end, then wouldnt put up for them again.
The northern most ones, the Wolves & Walsall northern area ones they might have a crack at again, but cant see it meself.
Thanks
@Westy. So we would have to wait and see
The 75 Start it from Walsall end Birmingham Via Wednesbury and Darlaston then run along 74 route
Just had a little think considering the plans to introduce a Platinum Bristol Road express service (although I imagine it'll follow the 63 route):
- Keep the 98 as it is between town and Northfield, but then send it via the current 29/49 route through Merritts Brook and along Holly Hill Road, to terminate at Frankley (or possibly Great Park).
- Curtail all 29s to Northfield (Lockwood Road), and all 49s to Longbridge (Sunbury Road - possibly A38 Longbridge Island if Longbridge Lane is ever sorted ::) ) Frankley-Northfield on these routes is covered by the 98 every 20 minutes, Longbridge-Rubery-Frankley can make do with the 63 every 10.
- Reintroduce the X62 (Platinum) every 15 minutes. Actually express along the Bristol Road (Inner Ring Road; Priory Road; Selly Oak between Dawlish Road and Oak Tree Lane; Bournville Police Station and Royal Ortho), then all stops from the grosvenor to Rednal and Great Park.
Can I post question on here
Yesterday there was a fatal crash on the M6 at J10 the 529 goes via J10 but they shut down J10. If the 529 was diverted which way did it go.
Quote from: BusFan94 on August 22, 2016, 10:25:45 AM
Yesterday there was a fatal crash on the M6 at J10 the 529 goes via J10 but they shut down J10. If the 529 was diverted which way did it go.
Surely its only the slip roads that are shut?
(Otherwise dont they divert via QE Avenue & Churchill Road ?)
Quote from: Westy on August 22, 2016, 06:32:19 PM
Surely its only the slip roads that are shut?
(Otherwise dont they divert via QE Avenue & Churchill Road ?)
That's what I was thinking too, when they say in the news that the 'M6 is closed at J10' it usually just means that access to the motorway at that junction is closed.
Having recently been there, I'd quite like NX to operate a service which goes to Drayton Manor. It'd compete with Arriva's 110 which when I went on it got decent loadings on the journey there and on the way back, it was rammed.
I've seen many NX buses there on Private Hire so apart of me thinks it could work
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on August 22, 2016, 10:19:57 PM
Having recently been there, I'd quite like NX to operate a service which goes to Drayton Manor. It'd compete with Arriva's 110 which when I went on it got decent loadings on the journey there and on the way back, it was rammed.
I've seen many NX buses there on Private Hire so apart of me thinks it could work
Arriva used to run the X76 between Tamworth and Birmingham via Fazeley , I always wondered why they stopped that route
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on August 22, 2016, 10:19:57 PM
Having recently been there, I'd quite like NX to operate a service which goes to Drayton Manor. It'd compete with Arriva's 110 which when I went on it got decent loadings on the journey there and on the way back, it was rammed.
I've seen many NX buses there on Private Hire so apart of me thinks it could work
E22: Carrs Lane to Drayton Manor
E33: Carrs Lane to Alton Towers
- weren't it? Not too sure of the operating times, but those routes were operated by Travel West Midlands for some time. I believe (before withdrawal) the allocation was the Omnicity deckers; there are some images floating around the web.. I seem to recall Alexander Royales as well, branded for Private Charter.
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=2734.0
See this topic. ;)
@GeminiFan1991
Quote from: clayderman on August 22, 2016, 10:41:39 PM
E22: Carrs Lane to Drayton Manor
E33: Carrs Lane to Alton Towers
- weren't it? Not too sure of the operating times, but those routes were operated by Travel West Midlands for some time. I believe (before withdrawal) the allocation was the Omnicity deckers; there are some images floating around the web.. I seem to recall Alexander Royales as well, branded for Private Charter.
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=2734.0
See this topic. ;) @GeminiFan1991
Many Thanks for this.
I'm sure their are photos of an Omnicity or 2 at Drayton Manor further validating this.
I kind of wanted a public service at set times, It would probably be seasonal owing to how theme parks work but I think it could work.
M6 Had Hollow black circle so it was closed drivers on the A454 and Wolverhampton road were diverted but where the 529 go from QE avenue and Churchill Road I know that area well and unless it went down the old 40 route I can't see it going any other way without being late.
Quote from: BusFan94 on August 23, 2016, 09:31:35 AM
M6 Had Hollow black circle so it was closed drivers on the A454 and Wolverhampton road were diverted but where the 529 go from QE avenue and Churchill Road I know that area well and unless it went down the old 40 route I can't see it going any other way without being late.
In that scenario, it would go up Queen Elizabeth Avenue, right onto Churchill Road, then right again down Bloxwich Lane (the road that the old 331 used to serve) before rejoining Wolverhampton Road
Ok
We normally know theres a problem on the M6 before its given out on the news, as my road gets all the traffic!
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on August 22, 2016, 10:56:04 PM
Many Thanks for this.
I'm sure their are photos of an Omnicity or 2 at Drayton Manor further validating this.
I kind of wanted a public service at set times, It would probably be seasonal owing to how theme parks work but I think it could work.
The problem is that you would probably need the services to be advance booking only, otherwise how do you know how many people to cater for, you turn up with a bus and you have 200 people waiting or a number of buses are provided and there are just 2 people waiting to travel.
In these days when every £ matters, you can't really waste resources just hoping that people might travel.
In the 70s or 80s WMPTE laid on services from Stourbridge - Villa Park/The Hawthorns (think there were others from other towns but they weren't that popular and were soon discontinued.
I remember travelling on a Private Hire DP Metrobus from Coventry to Drayton Manor, I'm sure that was numbered the E23 at the time, must have been somewhere around 2001-2002 and that was rammed. Also spent around 20 odd minutes sat at the traffic lights at the bottom of Carrs Lane.
Personally I think if NX worked alongside Drayton Manor, they could publicize the route well and judging from journeys there, it could be a profitable service.
In the past those jounrneys have been well advertised, don't think there's much else they can do. So if they don't run now then I think it's safe to say they won't run again
On a previous trip to Paultons Park (Peppa Pig Land), there was a bus running from Southampton to Paultons Park fully decked out in the Peppa Pig Livery.
I am sure Arriva / NXWM in conjuction with Drayton Manor could lay on special services linking up Birmingham / Coventry / Wolverhampton to Drayton Manor
I'm with Kevin on this one. The services that NX used to run to Drayton Manor were, if I recall correctly, contracted services.
If they were really as popular and profitable as people seem to think they would be, you have to ask the question why they are still not running. ;)
Quote from: Stu on August 24, 2016, 07:04:25 PM
I'm with Kevin on this one. The services that NX used to run to Drayton Manor were, if I recall correctly, contracted services.
If they were really as popular and profitable as people seem to think they would be, you have to ask the question why they are still not running. ;)
They were commercial services entirely at TWM's commercial risk
Quote from: Tony on August 24, 2016, 07:05:37 PM
They were commercial services entirely at TWM's commercial risk
I stand corrected then! (https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi253.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh77%2FSanzLuisGarcia%2F5.gif&hash=889b71e3b4fa43d119cbfb8ba5bbf8be13d3ab8d)
However, that just validates my second point even further!
When I made my initial post I was going off partially uneducated idea in the sense I've seen Arriva's 110 (Which stops outside the North entrance of the park) having good loadings, not to mention I would surmise during the Summer when its busy it might potentially be worth it. Me thinking it was a good idea based off my recent trip
My rationale was thinking that NX acquired the Fort contract but silly me I thought it was to the Fort Shopping Centre instead of Fort Dunlop and I was thinking why do they need their own bus service ! :D :D
How about this for a radical idea
New Service 21 City to Bartley Green via 98 route to QE Hospital then as route X64
New Service 62 City to Rednal and Rubery via X64 route to QE Hospital, then as route 98
Both services would terminate a Grand Central in City and would operate every 15 minutes each. With both services having a similar journey time from City to QE Hospital and Selly Oak it would combine to give a 7/8 frequency.
New service 219 Halesowen to QE Hospital via 99 route every 20 minutes
Routes 98, 99 and X64 withdrawn.
Having the 62 going to QE would be very confusing as people would think it was going straight down the Bristol rd. I was trying to work out because you put radical if you were being sarcastic or not but then you put the 62 going to QE part??
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 27, 2016, 12:09:52 PM
Having the 62 going to QE would be very confusing as people would think it was going straight down the Bristol rd. I was trying to work out because you put radical if you were being sarcastic or not but then you put the 62 going to QE part??
Also the busy QE to City Centre section would have its frequency reduced to every 15 minutes if a 21 was introduces. Currently every 10 with the 98/99.
Quote from: 2206 on August 27, 2016, 12:11:30 PM
Also the busy QE to City Centre section would have its frequency reduced to every 15 minutes if a 21 was introduces. Currently every 10 with the 98/99.
Depends how frequently you ran the 21!
Quote from: Tony on August 27, 2016, 12:15:48 PM
Depends how frequently you ran the 21!
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 25, 2016, 11:05:20 PM
Both services would terminate a Grand Central in City and would operate every 15 minutes each. With both services having a similar journey time from City to QE Hospital and Selly Oak it would combine to give a 7/8 frequency.
It says every 15 minutes above.
Quote from: 2206 on August 27, 2016, 12:17:10 PM
It says every 15 minutes above.
Yes, but you have the 62 also in that suggestion
Quote from: Tony on August 27, 2016, 12:32:18 PM
Yes, but you have the 62 also in that suggestion
Which would operate via the Bristol Road not the University.
Quote from: 2206 on August 27, 2016, 12:38:50 PM
Which would operate via the Bristol Road not the University.
read what Steve put
New Service 62 City to Rednal and Rubery via X64 route to QE Hospital, then as route 98
Quote from: Tony on August 27, 2016, 12:39:48 PM
read what Steve put
New Service 62 City to Rednal and Rubery via X64 route to QE Hospital, then as route 98
The suggestion says,
One would operate via Bristol Road - 15 minute frequency, via the current X64 route.
The other via the University and Five Ways - 15 minute frequency, via the current 98 route.
Quote from: 2206 on August 27, 2016, 12:45:23 PM
The suggestion says,
One would operate via Bristol Road - 15 minute frequency, via the current X64 route.
The other via the University and Five Ways - 15 minute frequency, via the current 98 route.
Both services would terminate a Grand Central in City and would operate every 15 minutes each. With both services having a similar journey time from City to QE Hospital and Selly Oak it would combine to give a 7/8 frequency.
Quote from: Tony on August 27, 2016, 12:46:39 PM
Both services would terminate a Grand Central in City and would operate every 15 minutes each. With both services having a similar journey time from City to QE Hospital and Selly Oak it would combine to give a 7/8 frequency.
Which suggests there would be a 7/8 minute frequency at the stops between QE and Selly Oak for buses towards Grand Central.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 25, 2016, 11:05:20 PM
New Service 21 City to Bartley Green via 98 route to QE Hospital then as route X64
New Service 62 City to Rednal and Rubery via X64 route to QE Hospital, then as route 98
[/quote
Quote from: 2206 on August 27, 2016, 12:49:14 PM
Which suggests there would be a 7/8 minute frequency at the stops between QE and Selly Oak for buses towards Grand Central.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 25, 2016, 11:05:20 PM
New Service 21 City to Bartley Green via 98 route to QE Hospital then as route X64
New Service 62 City to Rednal and Rubery via X64 route to QE Hospital, then as route 98
[/quote
No it doesn't
62 via the X64 route between Rubery/Rednal and Selly Oak then via the 98 route. Steve clearly states his idea would give a 7/8 minute service to the hospital as I quoted above
Quote from: Tony on August 27, 2016, 12:52:46 PM
No it doesn't
62 via the X64 route between Rubery/Rednal and Selly Oak then via the 98 route. Steve clearly states his idea would give a 7/8 minute service to the hospital as I quoted above
My mistake then, but the 62 would give a 15 minute frequency between City Centre and the hospital via Five Way and the University then which is a frequency reduction as the 98/99 operate every 10 minutes at the moment.
Quote from: 2206 on August 27, 2016, 03:51:22 PM
My mistake then, but the 62 would give a 15 minute frequency via Five Way and the University then which is a frequency reduction as the 98/99 operate every 10 minutes at the moment.
No - it would increase it to 7/8 with the 21 in Steve's idea, not difficult when that is what he actually stated
Quote from: Tony on August 27, 2016, 03:58:15 PM
No - it would increase it to 7/8 with the 21 in Steve's idea, not difficult when that is what he actually stated
If the 21 followed the X64 route it wouldn't go to Five Ways or, the University, the suggestion says it would follow the current X64 route between the QE and City Centre.
Quote from: 2206 on August 27, 2016, 04:01:17 PM
The 21 wouldn't go to Five Ways or, the University as as the suggestion says it would follow the current X64 route between the QE and City Centre, the X64.
Have you actually read it?
Here it is again
How about this for a radical idea
New Service 21 City to Bartley Green via 98 route to QE Hospital then as route X64
New Service 62 City to Rednal and Rubery via X64 route to QE Hospital, then as route 98
Both services would terminate a Grand Central in City and would operate every 15 minutes each. With both services having a similar journey time from City to QE Hospital and Selly Oak it would combine to give a 7/8 frequency.
New service 219 Halesowen to QE Hospital via 99 route every 20 minutes
Routes 98, 99 and X64 withdrawn.
Quote from: Tony on August 27, 2016, 04:03:19 PM
Have you actually read it?
Here it is again
How about this for a radical idea
New Service 21 City to Bartley Green via 98 route to QE Hospital then as route X64
New Service 62 City to Rednal and Rubery via X64 route to QE Hospital, then as route 98
Both services would terminate a Grand Central in City and would operate every 15 minutes each. With both services having a similar journey time from City to QE Hospital and Selly Oak it would combine to give a 7/8 frequency.
New service 219 Halesowen to QE Hospital via 99 route every 20 minutes
Routes 98, 99 and X64 withdrawn.
Yes that says, from the City Centre the 62 would operate via the Bristol Road as the X64 to the QE, then as the 98 to Rednal/Rubery every 15 minutes.
The 21 would operate as the 98 from the City Centre to the QE then as the X64 to Bartley Green which would mean a frequency reduction from every 10 minutes (98/99) to every 15 minutes (21).
Also they have a similar journey time to QE/Selly Oak so would combine to give a 7/8 minute frequency between the QE and Selly Oak.
Quote from: 2206 on August 27, 2016, 04:07:34 PM
Yes that says, from the City Centre the 62 would operate via the Bristol Road as the X64 to the QE, then as the 98 to Rednal/Rubery every 15 minutes.
The 21 would operate as the 98 from the City Centre to the QE then as the X64 to Bartley Green which would mean a frequency reduction from every 10 minutes (98/99) to every 15 minutes (21).
I am beginning to give up!
Both services via the 98 route to Selly Oak then the 21 carries on to Bartley Green and the 62 to Rubery - is how I read it. Steve clarifies this by actually stating it would give a 7/8 minute service to the Hospital
Quote from: Tony on August 27, 2016, 04:13:58 PM
I am beginning to give up!
Both services via the 98 route to Selly Oak then the 21 carries on to Bartley Green and the 62 to Rubery - is how I read it. Steve clarifies this by actually stating it would give a 7/8 minute service to the Hospital
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 25, 2016, 11:05:20 PM
New Service 21 City to Bartley Green via 98 route to QE Hospital then as route X64
New Service 62 City to Rednal and Rubery via X64 route to QE Hospital, then as route 98
Both services would terminate a Grand Central in City and would operate every 15 minutes each. With both services having a similar journey time from City to QE Hospital and Selly Oak it would combine to give a 7/8 frequency.
From what I have read I am assuming that the 21 would go via Edgbaston Park road to get to Q.E. as per the 98 and the 62 would run via Bristol Road to Q.E.
I quite like that idea living by the Bristol Road routes but what i would do is change the following.
Change the 99 to the 20 route unchanged route every 20 minutes
21 via 98 route to QE then via 48 route to Weoley Castle then X64 route to Bartley Green every 20 minutes
22/23/24 unchanged
25 new route via 29 route to Weoley Castle then via 48 route to Northfield where it will terminate. every 15 minutes
- 20/21 still give a 10 minute frequency to the QE
45 unchanged but lower frequency at every 15 minutes
46 or 48? new route running to Kings Norton Station from City as per 45/47 then via 49 route to Longbridge every 15 minutes
47 unchanged but lower frequency at every 15 minutes
- 45/46/47 give a 5 minute frequency between City and Kings Norton Station
61 rerouted to serve Holly Hill Road instead of New Street every 10 minutes
62 replacing 98 but running via X64 route to Selly Oak then the 98 route to Rubery Flyover then via Cock Hill Lane, Ormond Road, Arden Road, New Street, Rubery Lane to Great Park. Every 15 minutes
63 unchanged every 10 minutes
64 as X64 to Weoley Castle then via 29 route to Northfield then via Borrowdale/Norrington Rd's, Frankley Beeches Road, Hollymoor Way, New Street, Arden Road to Frankley every 15 minutes
- 62/64 give a 7-8 minute frequency from City to the QE via Bristol Road
- 61/63 give a 5 minute frequency along the Bristol Road through Selly Oak to Northfield
I would also change the 19 from Longbridge to operate via the 42 route to Rubery then through Great Park to Frankley Arden Road meaning the 42 can be withdrawn.
48 curtailed to QE Hospital
49 curtailed to Kings Norton Station
29/X64/98/99 withdrawn
Thought i would note down what my thoughts where.......
Having talked to a friend who lives in Gornal Wood, I'd came up with a few suggestions that could potentially be implemented in the Dudley review:
205 renumbered to 20, and reduced overall to hourly.
New services 20A & 20C introduced operating Dudley, Russells Hall Estate, Russells Hall Hospital, Pensnett Trading Estate, Gornal Wood, Wrens Nest, Dudley (20C), then the inverse as 20A
X96 reduced to Dudley to Wollaston Farm, 20A/20C covering the Wrens Nest section
224 extended from Sedgley to Merry Hill Centre, via Stickley, Gornal Wood, Tansey Green Road, Russells Hall Hospital & Brierley Hill
Just a couple of suggestions...
Quote from: Alex on August 28, 2016, 11:53:49 PM
Having talked to a friend who lives in Gornal Wood, I'd came up with a few suggestions that could potentially be implemented in the Dudley review:
205 renumbered to 20, and reduced overall to hourly.
New services 20A & 20C introduced operating Dudley, Russells Hall Estate, Russells Hall Hospital, Pensnett Trading Estate, Gornal Wood, Wrens Nest, Dudley (20C), then the inverse as 20A
X96 reduced to Dudley to Wollaston Farm, 20A/20C covering the Wrens Nest section
224 extended from Sedgley to Merry Hill Centre, via Stickley, Gornal Wood, Tansey Green Road, Russells Hall Hospital & Brierley Hill
Just a couple of suggestions...
You'd reduce the number of buses from Wrens Nest to Dudley from 6 to 4? (5 if you want to travel all the way around the circular)
Who used to operate the 339 In Walsall Using the old Darts in light blue
Quote from: BusFan94 on August 29, 2016, 10:37:18 AM
Who used to operate the 339 In Walsall Using the old Darts in light blue
Believe it was Midland bus company
Thanks
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 06, 2015, 03:13:22 PM
Has the X64 worked, since introduction freq reductions and as an X service doesn't seem to be that attractive down the Bristol Road really. What do people think?
No it hasn't. I would bring back the 21 and have it running every 15 mins, so that the 21/29 would be running every 7/8 mins from Weoley Castle Square.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 03, 2016, 05:49:28 PM
No it hasn't. I would bring back the 21 and have it running every 15 mins, so that the 21/29 would be running every 7/8 mins from Weoley Castle Square.
It wouldn't work, the journey time on your 21 route would take longer to get to and from Weoley Castle than the 29 so they wouldn't match in frequency terms.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on September 03, 2016, 08:30:41 PM
It wouldn't work, the journey time on your 21 route would take longer to get to and from Weoley Castle than the 29 so they wouldn't match in frequency terms.
Would it? Explain...
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 04, 2016, 12:59:55 PM
Would it? Explain...
29 Smallbrook Queensway to Harborne jnc is 20 minutes then to Weoley Castle total time of 39 minutes.
Your 21 would take same as 29 (20 mins) to Harborne jnc, then QE Hospital up to 32 mins, then as X64 with another 16 mins. Total journey time of 48 minutes.
So if a 29 leaves Smallbrook Queensway at 00 15 30 45 mins past each hour, they would get to Weoley Castle at 39 54 09 24
Your 21 would leave Smallbrook Queensway at 07 22 37 52 mins past each hour, they would get to Weoley Castle at 55 10 25 40
So as I put in my previous reply they wouldn't match up in frequency terms.
The 21 and 29, when they both ran didn't actually share many common stops in Weoley Castle anyway - it was really only Beckbury Rd and Castle Square, so can't see the need for a uniform frequency over that part of the route. I used to work with someone who lived near Castle Rd and he'd just catch the 29 as it was the quicker of the two routes.
Definitely agree with the 21 and the x64 comments. Personally I would do away with the x64 and bring back deckers on the 21, not so sure about the 29 bit however I think it should just be left alone, would seem pointless trying to combine them. Another route I'd also consider for deckers is the 98, and I would introduce a new limited stop service that followed the 63 route from Birmingham to Longbridge, or possibly even as far as Rubery.
Quote from: V89MOA on September 05, 2016, 03:27:38 AM
Definitely agree with the 21 and the x64 comments. Personally I would do away with the x64 and bring back deckers on the 21, not so sure about the 29 bit however I think it should just be left alone, would seem pointless trying to combine them. Another route I'd also consider for deckers is the 98, and I would introduce a new limited stop service that followed the 63 route from Birmingham to Longbridge, or possibly even as far as Rubery.
Yeah fair enough trying to combine them might be a lost cause but if they were to bring back the 21 it'd have to at least run at a different time to the 29. Because at the minute the X64 and 29 seem to run through the Square at near enough the same time which is pointless.
I'd also reduce the 24 to every 15 mins. Most of those buses are half-empty and wasting deckers. A slight change that would see them used more.
As for the 98 again I'd just bring the 62 and have done with it. Have it running to Rednal like before because the route is way too long at the moment and have the 63 go to Great Park instead and the 61 to Frankley. It worked well enough before.
Quote from: V89MOA on September 05, 2016, 03:27:38 AM
Definitely agree with the 21 and the x64 comments. Personally I would do away with the x64 and bring back deckers on the 21, not so sure about the 29 bit however I think it should just be left alone, would seem pointless trying to combine them. Another route I'd also consider for deckers is the 98, and I would introduce a new limited stop service that followed the 63 route from Birmingham to Longbridge, or possibly even as far as Rubery.
Unless it was rerouted, or the trees were cut back the 98 can't use double deckers.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on September 04, 2016, 02:03:53 PM
29 Smallbrook Queensway to Harborne jnc is 20 minutes then to Weoley Castle total time of 39 minutes.
Your 21 would take same as 29 (20 mins) to Harborne jnc, then QE Hospital up to 32 mins, then as X64 with another 16 mins. Total journey time of 48 minutes.
So if a 29 leaves Smallbrook Queensway at 00 15 30 45 mins past each hour, they would get to Weoley Castle at 39 54 09 24
Your 21 would leave Smallbrook Queensway at 07 22 37 52 mins past each hour, they would get to Weoley Castle at 55 10 25 40
So as I put in my previous reply they wouldn't match up in frequency terms.
The 29 as it is takes between 45-50 mins to get to Weoley Castle...
Quote from: 2206 on September 05, 2016, 10:17:56 AM
Unless it was rerouted, or the trees were cut back the 98 can't use double deckers.
Damn I always forget about those trees down there, still the problem was soon sorted with the 48.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 05, 2016, 07:22:39 PM
The 29 as it is takes between 45-50 mins to get to Weoley Castle...
In reality it probably does on some journeys but the 21 with its route through the QE and the time it took to get through Selly Oak triangle, then down through Lodge Hill took longer. Towards city the 21 also lost a fair bit of time making that right turn out of Somerset Rd onto Metchley Lane and the right turn at the Green Man. I liked the 21, it was a really useful route, but I suspect the journey times as traffic got worse were amongst the reasons why it was replaced.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 05, 2016, 07:34:00 AM
Yeah fair enough trying to combine them might be a lost cause but if they were to bring back the 21 it'd have to at least run at a different time to the 29. Because at the minute the X64 and 29 seem to run through the Square at near enough the same time which is pointless.
I'd also reduce the 24 to every 15 mins. Most of those buses are half-empty and wasting deckers. A slight change that would see them used more.
As for the 98 again I'd just bring the 62 and have done with it. Have it running to Rednal like before because the route is way too long at the moment and have the 63 go to Great Park instead and the 61 to Frankley. It worked well enough before.
Which would mean a frequency reduction from every 10 minutes to every 20 minutes between, QE, the Univesity, Five Ways and City Centre.
Unless the 84 could possibly be extended into the City Centre with extra 84E short journeys between the QE and the City Centre, replacing the 98?
Quote from: Mike K on September 05, 2016, 09:48:18 PM
In reality it probably does on some journeys but the 21 with its route through the QE and the time it took to get through Selly Oak triangle, then down through Lodge Hill took longer. Towards city the 21 also lost a fair bit of time making that right turn out of Somerset Rd onto Metchley Lane and the right turn at the Green Man. I liked the 21, it was a really useful route, but I suspect the journey times as traffic got worse were amongst the reasons why it was replaced.
To be fair, if you look at the timetable for the 29, most journeys are scheduled to do so. Yeah I guess it did, but it linked up a lot of those areas too and from town etc. Like you say it was a useful route and a popular one too. Yeah it did, the problem was the traffic out of the QE at times but it doesn't seem as bad with the new QE so I don't think it would be as bad now.
Coventry 13 Route. After 6.30pm this week the Binley Rd is closed at the fire station for major resurfacing. 13 is diverted along Clifford Bridge Rd and gets back on route at Burns Rd. NX Cov should consider making something like this permanent. Perhaps rejoining Binley Rd at the fire station? At the moment NX Cov no longer serve CB Rd since the 16 journey was shortened.
Because of traffic problems in Small Heath highway and Bordesley circus, I think it would be better if some bus routes take non-major roads into city centre.
Obviously, not all roads are suitable for large vehicles and some routes may require that major passenger loading/unloading points to be missed out.
Seeing that the areas immediately outside city centre in East Birmingham are mostly factories and they have roads to accommodate larger vehicles, I think it's a possibility to think about.
For example, Cattell Road and Garrison Lane for 58/59/60. This misses out major bus stop near McDonalds but the nearest bus stop is less than 5 minutes walk.
Montgomery Street, Bordesley Middleway and then Camp Hill for X1/X2. No major bus stops are missed out.
Obviously, those routes won't make a sense during off-peak periods, so to prevent a confusion, 'A' letters would be used for peak time workings only.
Quote from: :D on November 10, 2016, 08:12:03 PM
Montgomery Street, Bordesley Middleway and then Camp Hill for X1/X2. No major bus stops are missed out.
For outbound journeys, when traffic on Small Heath Highway is particularly slow approaching Heybarnes Circus, I've often wondered about the feasibility of allowing the 900/957 (X1/X2) onto Talbot Way (Small Heath Business Park) to then rejoin Coventry Road to resume normal route. There's still the bottleneck by the ASDA junction on Coventry Road to contend with, but I'm sure a few minutes could be shaved off, and no stops would be missed out.
Make the weekday evening A5 leave Wolves 10 minutes earlier than it currently does, at least that's what one of the drivers suggested needs to happen.
It rarely makes it to Amazon on time on weekdays.
Last week I was late for my shift twice because of it. >:(
I'd possibly extend the YW 18 to Weoley Castle. Connecting it with Cotteridge/Kings Norton.
Whether it would work or not though I'm unsure.
Quote from: MasterPlan on December 24, 2016, 01:58:26 PM
I'd possibly extend the YW 18 to Weoley Castle. Connecting it with Cotteridge/Kings Norton.
Whether it would work or not though I'm unsure.
The 18 route has been untouched for decades. Are there any services that have avoided the "WMT Tinckerman" treat for as long as the 18?
Quote from: Matt77 on December 24, 2016, 07:28:53 PM
The 18 route has been untouched for decades. Are there any services that have avoided the "WMT Tinckerman" treat for as long as the 18?
11?
Quote from: Matt77 on December 24, 2016, 07:28:53 PM
The 18 route has been untouched for decades. Are there any services that have avoided the "WMT Tinckerman" treat for as long as the 18?
Guess not actually
All city centre routes have been tinkered with and most of Black Country routes have changed beyond recognition over the years, so that only really leaves Brum orbital routes:
28 changes in Erdington and original extension to Scott Arms
11 changed in Bearwood
451 sure at one point didn't serve Pheasey estate
76/49/69 south brum changes
71/72 East Brum changes
27/35 once one route
Pretty sure the 18 itself didn't originally go as far as Bartley Green, although maps I have show it doing so since at least 1981
Quote from: Kevin on December 24, 2016, 07:45:52 PM
Guess not actually
All city centre routes have been tinkered with and most of Black Country routes have changed beyond recognition over the years, so that only really leaves Brum orbital routes:
28 changes in Erdington and original extension to Scott Arms
11 changed in Bearwood
451 sure at one point didn't serve Pheasey estate
76/49/69 south brum changes
71/72 East Brum changes
27/35 once one route
Pretty sure the 18 itself didn't originally go as far as Bartley Green, although maps I have show it doing so since at least 1981
My 1977 map has the 18 route exactly as it is today. That's nearly 40yrs of the same route. I guess being a service that doesn't include the city centre puts it in a strong position to be the service operating for the longest period along the same route. Can anyone better the 18?
The 18 was extended from Merritt Hill/Holloway to Bartley Green (Romsley Road) in 1969. I have a feeling that the Bartley Green terminus was moved to Wood Lane/Field Lane for a few years, probably returning to Romsley Road in 1986, but my old Omnibus Society bulletins are not handy at the moment to confirm one way or another.
The service was extended in Yardley Wood from Haunch Lane/Yardley Wood Road to the bus garage in 1984.
At one time in WMT days Yardley Wood destination blinds included 'Halesowen'. Whether this was for a possible extension of the 18 I do not know, but I cannot think of any other NXWM service that has been unchanged for so long either.
Just been thinking since the 75 was run to Darlaston from Birmingham only a couple of weeks before it was withdrawn Here's three possible solutions I can think off To get a Link to Darlaston to Birmingham It could have some potential as the 75 was getting good loadings from Darlo.
Extend Route 79 back to Birmingham via It's old Route and or Smethwick
Create a new route from Wednesbury to Birmingham like the 75 did before being extending to Darlo and Withdrawn Number It 79A then go Via Friar Park Charlemount, West Bromwich Then Limited Stop to Birmingham Via 74 route
Or Create a A limited stop service from Darlaston to Birmingham number it X75 limited stop via 38 Route to Wednesbury then limited stop via old 75 route to West Bromwich from Wednesbury then Limited Stop From West Bromwich to Birmingham Via 74 Route. Then you will have connections again between Darlo, and Wednesbury Birmingham
Quote from: BusFan94 on December 27, 2016, 07:29:31 PM
Just been thinking since the 75 was run to Darlaston from Birmingham only a couple of weeks before it was withdrawn Here's three possible solutions I can think off To get a Link to Darlaston to Birmingham It could have some potential as the 75 was getting good loadings from Darlo.
Extend Route 79 back to Birmingham via It's old Route and or Smethwick
Create a new route from Wednesbury to Birmingham like the 75 did before being extending to Darlo and Withdrawn Number It 79A then go Via Friar Park Charlemount, West Bromwich Then Limited Stop to Birmingham Via 74 route
Or Create a A limited stop service from Darlaston to Birmingham number it X75 limited stop via 38 Route to Wednesbury then limited stop via old 75 route to West Bromwich from Wednesbury then Limited Stop From West Bromwich to Birmingham Via 74 Route. Then you will have connections again between Darlo, and Wednesbury Birmingham
There was a reason the 79 was split...
And that was because it was long enough that congestion on either end doomed the route. Same reason with the 75, and it carried mostly thin air, when it went to Darlaston. I think the largest amount of people I saw on it was about 4, and I highly doubt any of those had came all the way from Birmingham...
No one would sit on a bus for near 80-90 minutes to go from Darlaston to Birmingham, especially when it would be miles quicker to just get a 34/37/39/333X/334 into Bradford Place, and change to a train, potentially almost an hour quicker.
A limited stop 75 would offer no journey time saving other than not having to constantly stop and start, as Soho Road is like that anyway. Same with Dudley Road. The days of those sorts of Limited Stop services along Soho Road died off with the 979 in the early noughties...
Wednesbury is already connected to Birmingham anyway. It's called the Midland Metro, and it's much quicker than any 75 or mental derivative
So no, its only potential would be people who are too lazy to change bus at West Bromwich, or in the case of the ''79A'' are already well enough served (remember, the 40 is every 6 minutes roughly, and the 41 is half hourly, I think). And I'm willing to bet most people would just go to either Walsall, or Bilston for getting into Birmingham anyway, meaning if the 75 had stayed, it would still be fighting a losing battle...
Quote from: Matt77 on December 24, 2016, 07:28:53 PM
The 18 route has been untouched for decades. Are there any services that have avoided the "WMT Tinckerman" treat for as long as the 18?
Yes it probably is one of very few services not to have been touched. I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how it might work.
Quote from: MasterPlan on December 28, 2016, 12:05:40 PM
Yes it probably is one of very few services not to have been touched. I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how it might work.
To be honest, Weoley Castle to Kings Norton via Bartley Green would be unattractively long - it would be much quicker to catch the 29 and meet the 18 in Northfield.
Really it would depend on how much demand there is to link Weoley Castle with the Cotteridge area. No doubt there is some demand, but probably not enough for NXWM (or anyone else) to make any money from it. If it was extended, it would surely take some traffic away from the X64, which could threaten the future of the Bartley - Weoley part of that service.
I'd love for someone to re-introduce the old Diamond Bus 300/310 (Can't remember which one it was now) that ran from Walsall to Merry Hill, or at least extend the 11 and 13 back to Stourbridge. It'd make it a lot easier for me to do my shopping, I guess. Bit of a selfish reason.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on December 28, 2016, 05:09:50 PM
To be honest, Weoley Castle to Kings Norton via Bartley Green would be unattractively long - it would be much quicker to catch the 29 and meet the 18 in Northfield.
Really it would depend on how much demand there is to link Weoley Castle with the Cotteridge area. No doubt there is some demand, but probably not enough for NXWM (or anyone else) to make any money from it. If it was extended, it would surely take some traffic away from the X64, which could threaten the future of the Bartley - Weoley part of that service.
Yeah possibly but on the other hand, only having to catch one bus instead of 2 is more attractive to some customers.
Well to be honest I thought about that too, I think it would have a negative impact on the X64 maybe, that's probably one reason I wouldn't go through with it.
Quote from: DJ98 on December 28, 2016, 06:22:45 PM
I'd love for someone to re-introduce the old Diamond Bus 300/310 (Can't remember which one it was now) that ran from Walsall to Merry Hill, or at least extend the 11 and 13 back to Stourbridge. It'd make it a lot easier for me to do my shopping, I guess. Bit of a selfish reason.
No thanks, I have to wait long enough at Wednesbury Parkway at night as it is!
99/98 seems to be quite busy in peaks during university term, often having to skip passengers waiting at bus stops.
Would it better if the X64 takes a right turn from Bristol Road just before the fire station into Edgbaston Park Road then a left turn into Pritchatts Road and following the usual route into the hospital before returning to the original route?
I suggested the following on another thread:
18 - Yardley wood - Barltey Green via Northfield (as it is)
18A - Yardley wood - Weoley Castle via Northfield (from Northfield follow the current 48 route)
48 - West Bromwich - Weoley Castle (curtailed at Weoley Castle)
Quote from: :D on January 05, 2017, 08:47:30 PM
99/98 seems to be quite busy in peaks during university term, often having to skip passengers waiting at bus stops.
Would it better if the X64 takes a right turn from Bristol Road just before the fire station into Edgbaston Park Road then a left turn into Pritchatts Road and following the usual route into the hospital before returning to the original route?
If you're going to do this you may as well just bring the 21 back lol
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on January 05, 2017, 11:07:19 PM
I suggested the following on another thread:
18 - Yardley wood - Barltey Green via Northfield (as it is)
18A - Yardley wood - Weoley Castle via Northfield (from Northfield follow the current 48 route)
48 - West Bromwich - Weoley Castle (curtailed at Weoley Castle)
Rather than cut back the 48 what about every other 18 from Yardley Wood turns right onto Cromwell Road towards Weoley Castle instead of left to Bartley Green.
Quote from: sonic84 on January 06, 2017, 07:53:19 PM
Rather than cut back the 48 what about every other 18 from Yardley Wood turns right onto Cromwell Road towards Weoley Castle instead of left to Bartley Green.
Not a bad suggestion. Potentially have this turn down Long Nuke Road, over the lights and then on to Somerford Road and terminate on the square. Would provide a link for Shenley Academy for those that live around Ley Hill...
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on January 06, 2017, 11:41:57 PM
Not a bad suggestion. Potentially have this turn down Long Nuke Road, over the lights and then on to Somerford Road and terminate on the square. Would provide a link for Shenley Academy for those that live around Ley Hill...
Not a bad idea. Somerford Road has no service since the 29 was moved.
I'd make changes to the NXWM Walsall - Blackheath corridor/121 as such
The current Blackheath shorts on the 4 would change so a extra bus a hour continues to Halesowen, with extra Blackheath shorts creating a combined 5 minute frequency between Oldbury and Blackheath, renumbered to 4E for Blackheath terminators.
The 4M would be renumbered to 4, staying at every 20 minutes, in order to continue the 10 minute fitted frequency with the X10. (They could market it as "getting the M out"...)
The current NXWM 4H would run every twenty minutes, with an extension via the 244 route to Hayley Green, and renumbered 4A
The 121 would be extended via the 4 route every half hour resulting in a '50 style service' between Walsall and Oldbury of every few minutes, and renumbered 4D.
(It's a pity that the 5 in West Bromwich wasn't numbered 3 instead because then NXWM could have had Merry Hill as the 4 and Halesowen as the 5...)
Quote from: the trainbasher on January 07, 2017, 01:08:52 PM
I'd make changes to the NXWM Walsall - Blackheath corridor/121 as such
The current Blackheath shorts on the 4 would change so a extra bus a hour continues to Halesowen, with extra Blackheath shorts creating a combined 5 minute frequency between Oldbury and Blackheath, renumbered to 4E for Blackheath terminators.
The 4M would be renumbered to 4, staying at every 20 minutes, in order to continue the 10 minute fitted frequency with the X10. (They could market it as "getting the M out"...)
The current NXWM 4H would run every twenty minutes, with an extension via the 244 route to Hayley Green, and renumbered 4A
The 121 would be extended via the 4 route every half hour resulting in a '50 style service' between Walsall and Oldbury of every few minutes, and renumbered 4D.
(It's a pity that the 5 in West Bromwich wasn't numbered 3 instead because then NXWM could have had Merry Hill as the 4 and Halesowen as the 5...)
I'd actually go a different way with all those routes
4 - Walsall to Halesowen (or indeed beyond to Hasbury etc)
4E - Blackheath shorts
X4 - Platinum version express Walsall to Blackheath and on to Merry Hill (granted the numbers now taken but you get my drift)
Why change something that's not broken...
Quote from: Dom on January 07, 2017, 08:11:05 PM
Why change something that's not broken...
This threads about opinions. Everyone has different ones!!
Quote from: the trainbasher on January 07, 2017, 01:08:52 PM
I'd make changes to the NXWM Walsall - Blackheath corridor/121 as such
The current Blackheath shorts on the 4 would change so a extra bus a hour continues to Halesowen, with extra Blackheath shorts creating a combined 5 minute frequency between Oldbury and Blackheath, renumbered to 4E for Blackheath terminators.
The 4M would be renumbered to 4, staying at every 20 minutes, in order to continue the 10 minute fitted frequency with the X10. (They could market it as "getting the M out"...)
The current NXWM 4H would run every twenty minutes, with an extension via the 244 route to Hayley Green, and renumbered 4A
The 121 would be extended via the 4 route every half hour resulting in a '50 style service' between Walsall and Oldbury of every few minutes, and renumbered 4D.
(It's a pity that the 5 in West Bromwich wasn't numbered 3 instead because then NXWM could have had Merry Hill as the 4 and Halesowen as the 5...)
4K to kiddiminster???
Quote from: karl724223 on January 07, 2017, 10:43:15 PM
4K to kiddiminster???
That is something that I think Diamond would be mad enough.
Quote from: Dom on January 07, 2017, 08:11:05 PM
Why change something that's not broken...
- Creates easy identification along a corridor
- Allows for the start of the 'Simplification' of the route numbers in Dudley
- Removes non standard route numbers (4H/4M)
- Creates additional journeys that can compete against Diamond both on the Walsall/West Bromwich section, plus also Walsall/Halesowen
- Every 4-5 minutes PEAK frequency Walsall/Oldbury (when the 4E Blackheath would run) would reduce overcrowding on the corridor
- Means that WB can use their smaller E200s on more of their local routes/transfer to PN for 243/4
- Diversion of the 121 replacement via Regent Road/Elm Terrace/City Road allows new direct buses to Walsall, plus allows for bigger bus
- Diversion of the 208 via Regent Road/Wheatsheaf Road every two hours creates new buses to connect to Merry Hill.
- NEW 209 via Tower Road/Wheatsheaf Road in lieu of Newbury Road & replace the 289 on Dalton Road/Cox's Lane every 2 hours
- 208 to run via Quarry Road in Cradley Heath replacing the 289. 209 would run via Halesowen Rd/Saltwells Rd/Dudley Wood Rd
- 4A would fully replace the 244 round Hayley Green, meaning that there would be no confusion for 2 different 4H services.
- 289 could be withdrawn and replaced around Lion Farm by NEW 89A/Cradley Heath and Old Hill by 208/209
Alternatively...Withdraw the 121 between WB and Oldbury, reduce it to hourly, and merge it with the 122, extend to Birmingham.
Use the 122 designation for a service running Dudley - Elm Terrace - Oldbury - Langley Green Stn - Victoria Rd - Francis Rd - Thimblemill Rd - Bearwood - City service (replacing parts of the 21 which would run via CEMETERY ROAD - WEST PARK ROAD - DEVONSHIRE ROAD - SMETHWICK HIGH STREET - BEARWOOD ROAD)
I do like the idea of the 121 and 122 combining. Having not used the 121 before would an hourly service be sufficient on that stretch of the route?
Quote from: sonic84 on January 08, 2017, 07:23:53 PM
I do like the idea of the 121 and 122 combining. Having not used the 121 before would an hourly service be sufficient on that stretch of the route?
All that would be upset was a few old grannies
Another change I would do is take the 147 out of Hayley Green and run it direct to Halesowen from Grange Road island. I would also extend it from Catshill to Bromsgrove to it is more useful for Romsley passengers. There is certainly time of the timetable to do it.
Quote from: sonic84 on January 15, 2017, 07:41:39 PM
Another change I would do is take the 147 out of Hayley Green and run it direct to Halesowen from Grange Road island. I would also extend it from Catshill to Bromsgrove to it is more useful for Romsley passengers. There is certainly time of the timetable to do it.
Meh, definitely extend to Bromsgrove though
Quote from: sonic84 on January 15, 2017, 07:41:39 PM
Another change I would do is take the 147 out of Hayley Green and run it direct to Halesowen from Grange Road island. I would also extend it from Catshill to Bromsgrove to it is more useful for Romsley passengers. There is certainly time of the timetable to do it.
I'm minded to agree but for one small matter: If it were so much more useful, why did no one use it when it existed under First?
Perhaps the hourly frequency was too much, I reckon a frequency more akin to the current 318 to Stourbridge would suffice
What about this:
X21 - New Limited Stop service, Birmingham - Woodgate, via Five Ways, University, QE Hospital, Selly Oak, Weoley Castle and Bartley Green.
64 - replacing the existing X64 service, Birmingham - Rednal, via Bristol Road, Selly Oak, Northfield and Longbridge. Operating with the 63 from Carrs Lane.
The X21 would serve 0 stops between Five Ways and Green Man, Harborne then full stop onwards other than going around the QE loop, stopping nearby only before carrying on up New Fosse Way towards Weoley Castle.
Quote from: MasterPlan on January 16, 2017, 01:37:19 PM
What about this:
X21 - New Limited Stop service, Birmingham - Woodgate, via Five Ways, University, QE Hospital, Selly Oak, Weoley Castle and Bartley Green.
64 - replacing the existing X64 service, Birmingham - Rednal, via Bristol Road, Selly Oak, Northfield and Longbridge. Operating with the 63 from Carrs Lane.
The X21 would serve 0 stops between Five Ways and Green Man, Harborne then full stop onwards other than going around the QE loop, stopping nearby only before carrying on up New Fosse Way towards Weoley Castle.
How many buses would that cost?
With the advent of the X61, I don't think we need another limited stop service going through Selly Oak.
Merry hill Halesowen bromsgrove maybe
Is their any viability of a Coventry to Solihull route ? I believe an operator is already the running the route but I mean NX taking the route on.
Quote from: MasterPlan on January 16, 2017, 06:20:35 PM
I don't know.
We'd all like loads of buses running everywhere we might want to go, unfortunately someone has to pay. I have no problem with fantasy routes that are never going to happen being posted on here, but don't think an operator would take any suggestions seriously if they are going to cost a lot of money
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on January 16, 2017, 07:45:46 PM
Is their any viability of a Coventry to Solihull route ? I believe an operator is already the running the route but I mean NX taking the route on.
So why would one operator want to go on a marginal route that another operator is already running on. The fact NX have dropped it once tells you it is marginal, that's not to say Diamond aren't making any money out of it, but it does mean if another operator went on there the likelihood is both would make big losses
If all these people who say they'd love NX to operate a route between Coventry and Solihull had actually caught the old 192 and 194 routes, then perhaps they'd still be running now.
Likewise, what's all the fuss about the old 21 route about? Again, if it was such a useful and successful route, why was it withdrawn then?
Times change, travelling habits change, and routes have to change as a result. What was great back in the 80s or 90s may not be so useful or cost-effective here in the 21st century.
The 19 was every 20 mins in peak? That could be returned 😉
Quote from: Stu on January 16, 2017, 07:56:03 PM
If all these people who say they'd love NX to operate a route between Coventry and Solihull had actually caught the old 192 and 194 routes, then perhaps they'd still be running now.
Likewise, what's all the fuss about the old 21 route about? Again, if it was such a useful and successful route, why was it withdrawn then?
Times change, travelling habits change, and routes have to change as a result. What was great back in the 80s or 90s may not be so useful or cost-effective here in the 21st century.
The difference is that the 82 is quite direct unlike the 192 / 194 which took the scenic route going through Berkswell if I remember correctly.
The 82 has a standing load between Hampton in Arden and Solihull on some journeys from Coventry on the 10:10 service which I have boarded (though many of the seats are taken up by Concessionary Pass Holders). :)
Quote from: Stu on January 16, 2017, 07:56:03 PM
Likewise, what's all the fuss about the old 21 route about? Again, if it was such a useful and successful route, why was it withdrawn then?
Times change, travelling habits change, and routes have to change as a result. What was great back in the 80s or 90s may not be so useful or cost-effective here in the 21st century.
To be fair the 21 was useful and well used but as Tony has posted before, reliability was becoming an issue. As someone who lives on the 22/23 routes, where rush hour journey times have quite frankly become laughable, it's not difficult to see why.
I just don't think NX have still hit on the winning formula with how the 21 was replaced. The X64 had been tinkered with a lot since introduction, and likewise the 29 and 48 have both had the route changes that were introduced after the 21 was withdrawn amended since. I don't have a magical solution and I'm not going to suggest any but the number of changes to bus routes along Swarthmore Rd in Northfield over the last few years (the 44, 20, 29 now 48) shows the challenges in getting it right around Weoley and Northfield.
Quote from: Tony on January 16, 2017, 07:47:08 PM
We'd all like loads of buses running everywhere we might want to go, unfortunately someone has to pay. I have no problem with fantasy routes that are never going to happen being posted on here, but don't think an operator would take any suggestions seriously if they are going to cost a lot of money
Yeah I know, to be honest it was just a hypothetical suggestion wondering whether that route would work in an ideal world. It wouldn't need to run on brand new buses though if that's the isssue.
Quote from: Mike K on January 16, 2017, 10:42:00 PM
To be fair the 21 was useful and well used but as Tony has posted before, reliability was becoming an issue. As someone who lives on the 22/23 routes, where rush hour journey times have quite frankly become laughable, it's not difficult to see why.
I just don't think NX have still hit on the winning formula with how the 21 was replaced. The X64 had been tinkered with a lot since introduction, and likewise the 29 and 48 have both had the route changes that were introduced after the 21 was withdrawn amended since. I don't have a magical solution and I'm not going to suggest any but the number of changes to bus routes along Swarthmore Rd in Northfield over the last few years (the 44, 20, 29 now 48) shows the challenges in getting it right around Weoley and Northfield.
Exactly. It shows how key the 21 was when they've spent so much time tinkering trying to get things right and honestly I still believe they haven't. The X64 may be slightly quicker to town but that's about it. Aside from that it's reliability is laughable, even when there's no traffic around, and it barely picks up any passengers anyway on the Bristol Road whereas you'd get more customers on the 21 route. Plus there's a lot more call for Broad St and Colemore Row than Queensway.
As for the 48 I'm not sure what can be done about that. So many routes have tried down the years. I remember the old 69 to Heartlands Hospital and more recently when the 49 was extended to Weoley Castle Square.
Even the 29 has been messed about with too much. Why it was taken off of Somerford Road I'll never know as it just adds more journey time going through Gregory Avenue.
Unfortunately though I don't see things over here ever improving.
While I was in bed last night I had the idea for the 82/X96
In order to improve some of the reliability issues on the X96, curtail it so it runs Dudley to Wollaston Farm only with that extra bus being used to ramp it up to every 15 between Dudley and Stourbridge with Wollaston losing a bus a hour as every other bus on the quarter hour frequency would be a Stourbridge short
To replace the X96, the 82 would also get a frequency increase to every 15, but alternate trips would run as 82A via Maple Green, Eve Lane, Burton Road and Old Park Road and Limes Road (the 82 would run direct via Wrens Nest Road and Hazel Road) in Wrens Nest and via Dudley Road and Bankfield Street in Bilston.
The 82a would also terminate at Bilston, thus not requiring any additional vehicles to operate the service (interworking between the 82/A would be in operation at Dudley similar to how the 27/A operate).
These would improve reliability on the X96 during the Peak hours, especially with a layover being inserted at Dudley, and will still keep to TfWM accessibility compliance standards for the Wrens Nest parts that are served currently by the X96.
Quote from: Adam 404 on January 16, 2017, 09:35:28 PM
The difference is that the 82 is quite direct unlike the 192 / 194 which took the scenic route going through Berkswell if I remember correctly.
How busy is the 82 compared to the old 192/4
The 82 has a standing load between Hampton in Arden and Solihull on some journeys from Coventry on the 10:10 service which I have boarded (though many of the seats are taken up by Concessionary Pass Holders). :)
how busy was the 192/4 compaired with the 82
Quote from: MasterPlan on January 17, 2017, 06:44:57 AM
Yeah I know, to be honest it was just a hypothetical suggestion wondering whether that route would work in an ideal world. It wouldn't need to run on brand new buses though if that's the isssue.
No-one mentioned brand new buses. I don't think you realise how much it costs to run a bus. adding one extra bus to a route can cost over £100,000 per year, that's any bus, not a new one. Starting a new route needing about 5 buses like your suggestion is half a million pounds per year. A new route like that would need an awful lot of extra passengers (not just transferring from a different service)
Quote from: Tony on January 17, 2017, 10:31:08 PM
No-one mentioned brand new buses. I don't think you realise how much it costs to run a bus. adding one extra bus to a route can cost over £100,000 per year, that's any bus, not a new one. Starting a new route needing about 5 buses like your suggestion is half a million pounds per year. A new route like that would need an awful lot of extra passengers (not just transferring from a different service)
Ah fair enough, I didn't know that. So essentially it would have to run at the same frequency as the current route you'd be taking out unless there's an increase in passengers? The 21 used to get more passengers than the X64 does but by how much I don't know obviously.
Quote from: Solo1 on January 17, 2017, 10:07:08 AM
how busy was the 192/4 compaired with the 82
The 192 got decent loads as it was great way for retired people to save on their fuel bills in the winter as well as having a day out in Solihull!
Quote from: Solo1 on January 17, 2017, 10:07:08 AM
how busy was the 192/4 compaired with the 82
I only ever caught the 192 once, admittedly it was the first journey on a Saturday morning, from Acocks Green to Solihull, only because I had just missed a 37, and I was the only passenger onboard; apart from picking me up on Warwick Road, it didn't stop again until Solihull station.
Sorry, that's my only experience of using that route, no idea what it was like during the daytime between Solihull and Coventry. But it couldn't have paid well, hence why it was withdrawn.
Quote from: JoNi on January 21, 2017, 06:11:14 PM
The 192 got decent loads as it was great way for retired people to save on their fuel bills in the winter as well as having a day out in Solihull!
The loads obviously weren't decent enough to make the routes pay otherwise they wouldn't have been withdrawn.
Quote from: Solo1 on January 17, 2017, 10:07:08 AM
how busy was the 192/4 compaired with the 82
From my observations not much difference, but it has to be noted that the old 192/4 had the through traffic and the Balsall Common traffic, whereas the current 82 only through passengers really so I'd say patronage has actually gone up with the current routes
Plus don't forget the 87 is more of a through route now as well, so overall all passengers are better off, can't speak really for numbers on there though haven't done it all the way enough
I would make the X51>Cannock every 30 mins and 15A/C every 20 mins, remove 38 and send 66 to Castle Vale and go down College Rd and continue normal line of route Revert X4 to Falcon Lodge and send X14 up to Minwort instead.
Quote from: nxplatinum6805 on January 29, 2017, 01:12:55 PM
I would make the X51>Cannock every 30 mins and 15A/C every 20 mins, remove 38 and send 66 to Castle Vale and go down College Rd and continue normal line of route Revert X4 to Falcon Lodge and send X14 up to Minwort instead.
The 15 doesn't need an every 20 minute frequency.
How would you send the X14 to Asda Minworth?
Why send the 66 to Castle Vale. If you were to how would you replace the Kingstanding section, Castle Vale High Street to Spitfire Island does not need a more frequent service to Erdington if the 38 was well used when every half hour, surely it would still be every half hour today. Spitfire Island to Erdington already have the 966.
Quote from: 2206 on January 29, 2017, 01:29:57 PM
The 15 doesn't need an every 20 minute frequency.
How would you send the X14 to Asda Minworth?
The Erdington Circular is too infrequent and inconvenient at the moment. Frequency could be improved.
Secondly, the X14 could do the ARR 116 to Birmingham from Minworth
Quote from: nxplatinum6805 on January 29, 2017, 01:36:16 PM
The Erdington Circular is too infrequent and inconvenient at the moment. Frequency could be improved.
Secondly, the X14 could do the ARR 116 to Birmingham from Minworth
The 66A and 115 were every half hour, if they were well used then it'd probably still be operating at that frequency today.
How do you replace the section between Kingsbury Road, Tyburn Road and Walmley then?
Quote from: nxplatinum6805 on January 29, 2017, 01:12:55 PM
I would make the X51>Cannock every 30 mins and 15A/C every 20 mins, remove 38 and send 66 to Castle Vale and go down College Rd and continue normal line of route Revert X4 to Falcon Lodge and send X14 up to Minwort instead.
You can't send the X14 up to Minworth, half of the current route would have to go.
Quote from: nxplatinum6805 on January 29, 2017, 01:36:16 PM
The Erdington Circular is too infrequent and inconvenient at the moment. Frequency could be improved.
Secondly, the X14 could do the ARR 116 to Birmingham from Minworth
How would all the people on Eachelhurst Road, who currently use the X14 get to work?
Would people from Walmley still want to use it with the extended journey time?
I would suggest making the 51 route 24 hour.
The 1:02 departure is well used and at the moment the South of the city benefits from a 24h route - 63, the West has the 74, the East has the 97, the North side has nothing.
We are still lacking behind other major cities with 24h routes.
Quote from: B.C Driver on January 30, 2017, 12:33:52 PM
I would suggest making the 51 route 24 hour.
The 1:02 departure is well used and at the moment the South of the city benefits from a 24h route - 63, the West has the 74, the East has the 97, the North side has nothing.
We are still lacking behind other major cities with 24h routes.
Would any Walsall drivers want to work overnights?
Quote from: Westy on January 30, 2017, 12:58:03 PM
Would any Walsall drivers want to work overnights?
at all garages there are drivers that just do late nights
Still a lot of people ask about bus services to kiddiminster from merry hill
I think first tried Kidderminster to Merry Hill a few times with the 285 and the 287 routes. Both were too infrequent really to make much impact.
I know at one point you used to be able to buy a train ticket from Kidderminster to Merry Hill and u just showed the driver your ticket at Cradley Heath and it was accepted. Not sure if that is still the case now thou
Quote from: B.C Driver on January 30, 2017, 12:33:52 PM
I would suggest making the 51 route 24 hour.
The 1:02 departure is well used and at the moment the South of the city benefits from a 24h route - 63, the West has the 74, the East has the 97, the North side has nothing.
We are still lacking behind other major cities with 24h routes.
Is something I've been wondering for a while, and how to do it, with the route being over half an hour long....
What I'd suggest is running it every half hour up until half 1 from city, last but one journey returning to city for a half 2 journey etc, with one or two early morning buses doing extra round trips to the same effect
Quote from: sonic84 on January 30, 2017, 07:10:12 PM
I think first tried Kidderminster to Merry Hill a few times with the 285 and the 287 routes. Both were too infrequent really to make much impact.
I know at one point you used to be able to buy a train ticket from Kidderminster to Merry Hill and u just showed the driver your ticket at Cradley Heath and it was accepted. Not sure if that is still the case now thou
yes they buy a plus bus ticket
That's the trouble nobody has done a frequent reliable service do the two Stourbridge services still depart five min apart from stour ?
Quote from: karl724223 on January 30, 2017, 09:14:07 PM
yes they buy a plus bus ticket
That's the trouble nobody has done a frequent reliable service do the two Stourbridge services still depart five min apart from stour ?
I vaguely recollect I think Choice Travel ran a Kidderminster - Merry Hill service on Weekends only, I seem to remember that didn't run frequently either & was soon withdrawn.
Yes, Central Buses 125 & Diamond's 25 are both still running. Diamond could consider extending their 25 through to Merry Hill limited stop to link their Kidderminster & Black Country networks, it would also offer new journey opportunities from both ends. That said, at the same time it would also a least double the Pvr from the current 1 B7RLE & double the operating costs, I guess it depends whether it would be commercially viable?
Quote from: Tony on January 29, 2017, 01:52:52 PM
How would all the people on Eachelhurst Road, who currently use the X14 get to work?
Would people from Walmley still want to use it with the extended journey time?
Because the 66 goes to Castle Vale send 71 down to Pype Hayes and down to JLR via 28 route amd miss Castle Vale
Quote from: nxplatinum6805 on January 30, 2017, 10:20:37 PM
Because the 66 goes to Castle Vale send 71 down to Pype Hayes and down to JLR via 28 route amd miss Castle Vale
So you'd leave all the people who currently use the 71 in Minworth and Castle Vale without a service?
Quote from: nxplatinum6805 on January 30, 2017, 10:20:37 PM
Because the 66 goes to Castle Vale send 71 down to Pype Hayes and down to JLR via 28 route amd miss Castle Vale
66 to the vale? Believe you mean the 67
Hansons used to do a 252 Merry Hill - Stourbridge - Norton - Kidderminster on Saturdays/Sundays, 2.5 trips each way.
Midland Red West also did a Dudley - Merry Hill - Stourbridge (- Kidderminster) service, the 234.
Looking at the 25, it is doable to have it have 5 minutes at Stourbridge, run via the old 300 route (as in the Amblecote Road/Ring Road) to Merry Hill, 8 minute drop back, then return with a 5 minute guaranteed connection at Stourbridge.
It would require a extra 1 bus for a hourly service, with a requirement of 2 extra vehicles should it be ran every 20 between Merry Hill and Stourbridge (just slot it 5 minutes before NX)
I am surprised actually that the 125 and 25 are both still running at an hourly frequency on that corridor, especially with 5/10 mins between departures.
Note: This would work better if NXWM still ran the S9 or some form of shuttle to Blythe Valley.
NXWM 31 curtailed to Shirley Parkway/Asda/Haslucks Greenjunction. Maintains every 20 minutes frequency. PVR = 6
NXWM 5, renumbered to 32, curtailed to Shirley Parkway/Asda/Haslucks Green Road junction. Maintains every 20 minutes frequency PVR = 6
NXWM 6. Frequency reduced to every 8 minutes. PVR = 17
NEW ROUTES:
4 - Birmingham to Solihull via 6 route to Shirley, then current 31 route to Solihull (via Sharmons Cross Road). Operates at every 30 minutes. PVR = 4
5 - Birmingham to Solihull via 6 route to Shirley, then current 5 route to Solihull (via Monkspath/Widney Manor). Operates at every 30 minutes. PVR = 5
6A - Solihull to Blythe Valley Business Park via 6 route to Blossomfield Rd/Stratford Rd junction, then non stop to Blythe Valley. Operates at every 30 minutes. This route maintains the 6 minute frequency at the Solihull end of the route, and also serves Blythe Valley at a lowish cost, as two buses would be needed anyway. This would be ideal if NXWM still ran the S9 or could secure the contract from Blythe Valley in the future. This is a peak time only service. PVR = 2
Routes 4 & 5 interwork, as the 4 has an extra 10ish minutes at Solihull and the 5 is running fairly tight at peaks.
Overall current PVR: 39
Overall new PVR: 40
Monkspath workers get a more direct service, although slightly less frequent into City Centre. From my experience driving the route, plenty of passengers change for a 6 at Shirley as it's quicker. This new route would eliminate that change. Also, as the route is more direct, it shouldn't get stuck as much.
New route 32 should have a noticeable increase in reliability due to a shorter overall route. It would also combine at every 10 min frequency between City & Springfield with the 31.
New 6A route should ease off pressure to the existing 6 route with the college/school along Blossomfield Road. A delay in Birmingham delays the rest of the route often.
New routes 4 and 5 would also ease off pressure to the 6, if there is traffic on the Blossomfield end of the route, which also does happen.
Also possible is to curtail some journeys between City & Robin Hood Island, and then Solihull & Robin Hood Island. This would maintain better reliability.
Routes 4 / 5 / 6A run by YW. Route 76 transferred to AG. 3225 gained from AG. Results in net loss of 1 vehicles for YW.
Routes 5 / 31 dropped PVR from 16 to 12. Route 76 gained by AG. 3225 moved to YW. Results in a net gain of 2 vehicles.
What about the Gospel oak link to Solihull
Quote from: monkeyjoe on March 15, 2017, 06:29:13 AM
What about the Gospel oak link to Solihull
1/31 to either Acocks Green and then 37 to Solihull or 31 to Shirley and then any bus from there.
For the sake of reliability, those passengers do lose out, but again, as I've driven the route at various times of the day, the passenger numbers do drop a lot after Gospel, hence why the route only runs to Solihull during the day.
X61 needs to be increased from every 15 mins during peak mornings and afternoons.
I don't know if this would work but, what about replacing the X64 with a 21/21A? The 21 would follow the old route and the 21A would follow the 99/98 route through Bath Row etc apart from turning left before Smallbrook Queensway inbound, and onto Great Charles Street, Livery Street etc, then leaving town back through Bath Row. Both half hour, making it every 15 mins. Then reinstating the 62 in place of the 98 to help the 63/X61?
Probably not possible / too complicated but just a thought.
Quote from: MasterPlan on March 28, 2017, 09:27:32 PM
I don't know if this would work but, what about replacing the X64 with a 21/21A? The 21 would follow the old route and the 21A would follow the 99/98 route through Bath Row etc apart from turning left before Smallbrook Queensway inbound, and onto Great Charles Street, Livery Street etc, then leaving town back through Bath Row. Both half hour, making it every 15 mins. Then reinstating the 62 in place of the 98 to help the 63/X61?
Probably not possible / too complicated but just a thought.
So you'd have 2 buses an hour between QE & Birmingham via the current 98/99 route? Yeah, that wouldn't work
Quote from: Sh4318 on March 28, 2017, 09:29:50 PM
So you'd have 2 buses an hour between QE & Birmingham via the current 98/99 route? Yeah, that wouldn't work
Is it really that busy around that part of the route? Did it not cope before the 98/99?
Quote from: MasterPlan on March 28, 2017, 09:42:42 PM
Is it really that busy around that part of the route? Did it not cope before the 98/99?
Yes it is busy, they carry full loads along that part of the route. It is also the busiest part of the 98/99 routes.
Quote from: 2206 on March 29, 2017, 04:17:50 PM
Yes it is busy, they carry full loads along that part of the route. It is also the busiest part of the 98/99 routes.
Well the X64's single deckers can barely cope at peak times as it is, so if it's really that busy then it should be quite funny to see what happens..
Bham City Council could help improve traffic flow in the city centre if they looked at the traffic lights.
Jcn of Moor St Qway / Albert St - on Moor St Qway traffic lights downhill (just after 97 stop) change to green, traffic lights uphill (just after 33, 51 etc stop) remain on red for about 15 seconds un-necessarily.
Pedestrian lights at Moor St Qway at the end of New St tunnel and at Carrs Ln / High St change automatically whether or not somebody has pressed them, fine in the busy daytime, but so annoying after say 7pm when you have to stop and nobody is crossing over.
Could
@Tony possibly look into this?
Quote from: Westy on January 30, 2017, 12:58:03 PM
Would any Walsall drivers want to work overnights?
You could have just one or two garages working the late night shifts. Mind you remember what happened when they tried to centralise all the Sunday services lol
I would cut Arriva's 61 to lichfield and bring back the old 62A so hammerwich isn't without a bus service . Also bring back the 23/A for wimblebery and Heath hays.
Quote from: Dutsey on August 24, 2016, 10:01:27 AM
On a previous trip to Paultons Park (Peppa Pig Land), there was a bus running from Southampton to Paultons Park fully decked out in the Peppa Pig Livery.
I am sure Arriva / NXWM in conjuction with Drayton Manor could lay on special services linking up Birmingham / Coventry / Wolverhampton to Drayton Manor
NXWM are retrying the Drayton Manor services as a one off the end of this month.
Saturday 29th April from Dudley, West Bromwich & Walsall
Sunday 30th April from Birmingham
as a look to see if it is worth running them again.
Bookings are looking promising. It is likely 6795 will be the bus used
Quote from: Tony on April 20, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
NXWM are retrying the Drayton Manor services as a one off the end of this month.
Saturday 29th April from Dudley, West Bromwich & Walsall
Sunday 30th April from Birmingham
as a look to see if it is worth running them again.
Bookings are looking promising. It is likely 6795 will be the bus used
Just read on the NX facebook page, in a reply to someone asking if NX are operating a service to Drayton Manor in the May half term, NX have said they will be running a service and at present are finalizing the details.
https://www.facebook.com/nxwestmidlands/posts/1502859176425778
Quote from: 2206 on April 25, 2017, 07:23:16 PM
Just read on the NX facebook page, in a reply to someone asking if NX are operating a service to Drayton Manor in the May half term, NX have said they will be running a service and at present are finalizing the details.
https://www.facebook.com/nxwestmidlands/posts/1502859176425778
Only four tickets left for Saturday's trip now. Looks like I will have a completely full bus, even got one wheelchair booked!
It's ironic that the X64 displays 'Limited Stop' and the X61 does not.
X61 needs frequency improving during peak times, every 15 mins is not good enough in rush hour.
The current route in city adds to delays, too many traffic lights to negotiate.
Quote from: B.C Driver on April 26, 2017, 01:03:58 PM
It's ironic that the X64 displays 'Limited Stop' and the X61 does not
Yeah that is just ridiculous. Does the X64 still say limited stop on the destination board?
Quote from: Kevin on April 26, 2017, 06:12:07 PM
Yeah that is just ridiculous. Does the X64 still say limited stop on the destination board?
As of today, yes - destination displays have still not been amended.
COVENTRY - following TC cutting short the 16 to the hospital from town vis Stoke Aldermoor and the Igo 26 sticking plaster solution.
Why not re-instate 16 back on full route from hospital but after Stoke A. send it down Humber Rd, London Rd, Daventry Rd, Quinton Rd, train station and then to town. Will fill a missing gap in travel needs.
Quote from: Mike K on April 26, 2017, 09:21:04 PM
As of today, yes - destination displays have still not been amended.
It's still not been amended. Is this because it's likely to change again after the SW review?
With the East Brum changes I'd suggest at least some sort of local route for the Bromford area, if just more buses on Diamond's 25
Also, with the changes to the buses around Sandwell Hospital today, the 45 and 40 effectively swapped routes from West Brom to All Saints. How about the 40 takes over the 45 as far as Stone Cross? Potential for better links Wednesbury and Friar Park to Tame Bridge station
Quote from: Kevin on June 04, 2017, 01:12:31 PM
With the East Brum changes I'd suggest at least some sort of local route for the Bromford area, if just more buses on Diamond's 25
Or reinstate the 26 again but maybe from Newport/Chester Road to town instead terminating in Hall Road, so at least Drews Lane can have a bus service again
Quote from: Squiz1971 on June 04, 2017, 02:27:30 PM
Or reinstate the 26 again but maybe from Newport/Chester Road to town instead terminating in Hall Road, so at least Drews Lane can have a bus service again
A new service for one bus stop?
Quote from: Squiz1971 on June 04, 2017, 02:27:30 PM
Or reinstate the 26 again but maybe from Newport/Chester Road to town instead terminating in Hall Road, so at least Drews Lane can have a bus service again
From what I saw few on Drews Lane used the 72 anyway.
Just a thought to try to improve some of the services with the South Birmingham review fairly soon.
1) Five Ways - Edgbaston Cricket Ground - Moseley - Acocks Green - Gospel Oak
Changes: Will terminate at Acocks Green, en route for Gospel Oak. See 31 for
services between Acocks Green & Gospel Oak.
2) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Billesley - Warstock - Maypole
3) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Billesley - Yardley Wood
Changes: 2 & 3 rerouted between City & Yardley Wood Road, serving Bordesley Middleway,
A4540 Highgate Road & Stoney Lane.
Showell Green Lane will no longer be served by service 2.
5) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Sarehole Mill - Shirley - Widney Manor - Solihull
Changes: Will no longer continue beyond Shirley, towards Solihull. See new service X7 for
these areas.
X7) Birmingham - non stop to Shirley - Widney Manor - Solihull Town Centre - Solihull Station
Changes: New service, will operate every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime,
every 30 minutes Evenings & Sundays. Flexible routing to avoid traffic
between Shirley, Saracens Head & Birmingham city centre.
Not quite done yet, but that's a rough overview of what I've got so far.
Quote from: Alex on June 22, 2017, 12:10:22 PM
Just a thought to try to improve some of the services with the South Birmingham review fairly soon.
1) Five Ways - Edgbaston Cricket Ground - Moseley - Acocks Green - Gospel Oak
Changes: Will terminate at Acocks Green, en route for Gospel Oak. See 31 for
services between Acocks Green & Gospel Oak.
2) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Billesley - Warstock - Maypole
3) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Billesley - Yardley Wood
Changes: 2 & 3 rerouted between City & Yardley Wood Road, serving Bordesley Middleway,
A4540 Highgate Road & Stoney Lane.
Showell Green Lane will no longer be served by service 2.
5) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Sarehole Mill - Shirley - Widney Manor - Solihull
Changes: Will no longer continue beyond Shirley, towards Solihull. See new service X7 for
these areas.
X7) Birmingham - non stop to Shirley - Widney Manor - Solihull Town Centre - Solihull Station
Changes: New service, will operate every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime,
every 30 minutes Evenings & Sundays. Flexible routing to avoid traffic
between Shirley, Saracens Head & Birmingham city centre.
Not quite done yet, but that's a rough overview of what I've got so far.
Are there really enough passengers south of Shirley for a express service only serving them straight to the City Centre, wanting to go to the City Centre for a service every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytimes and every 30 minutes evenings and Sundays?
Quote from: Alex on June 22, 2017, 12:10:22 PM
Just a thought to try to improve some of the services with the South Birmingham review fairly soon.
1) Five Ways - Edgbaston Cricket Ground - Moseley - Acocks Green - Gospel Oak
Changes: Will terminate at Acocks Green, en route for Gospel Oak. See 31 for
services between Acocks Green & Gospel Oak.
2) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Billesley - Warstock - Maypole
3) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Billesley - Yardley Wood
Changes: 2 & 3 rerouted between City & Yardley Wood Road, serving Bordesley Middleway,
A4540 Highgate Road & Stoney Lane.
Showell Green Lane will no longer be served by service 2.
5) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Sarehole Mill - Shirley - Widney Manor - Solihull
Changes: Will no longer continue beyond Shirley, towards Solihull. See new service X7 for
these areas.
X7) Birmingham - non stop to Shirley - Widney Manor - Solihull Town Centre - Solihull Station
Changes: New service, will operate every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime,
every 30 minutes Evenings & Sundays. Flexible routing to avoid traffic
between Shirley, Saracens Head & Birmingham city centre.
Not quite done yet, but that's a rough overview of what I've got so far.
The changes to your 1 sound good. Waste of time extending it to Gospel Oak. They've got the 31!
The 2/3 changes don't sound right why use Bordesley Middlesway? Can Deckers get under the bridge on Highgate Road? I presume the 2 won't use Court Road either?
Why does the 5 need to be cut for? Yes, it doesn't carry that much between Solihull and Springfield, but why have an Express Service which will probably be quiet just like the 5.
Will Monkspath and Cranmore Boulevard still have a bus service? As your 5 is only running to Shirley. X7 will probably only 3 stops around there. There's the Peak only 6A, unless you make that run during the day Mon-Sat.TBH I think the 5 is fine.
Quote from: Alex on June 22, 2017, 12:10:22 PM
Just a thought to try to improve some of the services with the South Birmingham review fairly soon.
1) Five Ways - Edgbaston Cricket Ground - Moseley - Acocks Green - Gospel Oak
Changes: Will terminate at Acocks Green, en route for Gospel Oak. See 31 for
services between Acocks Green & Gospel Oak.
The 1 and 31 follow different routes between Acocks Green village and Gospel Lane/Severne Road. Who's going to miss out, Olton Boulevard East or Shirley Road/Pool Farm Road?
Quote2) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Billesley - Warstock - Maypole
3) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Billesley - Yardley Wood
Changes: 2 & 3 rerouted between City & Yardley Wood Road, serving Bordesley Middleway,
A4540 Highgate Road & Stoney Lane.
Showell Green Lane will no longer be served by service 2.
Can't quite see the reasoning behind this? You are in effect reducing the overall capacity through Sparkbrook along Stratford Road. If traffic is the issue, then Highgate Road is just as bad at times.
Quote5) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Sarehole Mill - Shirley - Widney Manor - Solihull
Changes: Will no longer continue beyond Shirley, towards Solihull. See new service X7 for
these areas.
X7) Birmingham - non stop to Shirley - Widney Manor - Solihull Town Centre - Solihull Station
Changes: New service, will operate every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime,
every 30 minutes Evenings & Sundays. Flexible routing to avoid traffic
between Shirley, Saracens Head & Birmingham city centre.
Roads like the A34 Stratford Road are not (in my opinion) really suited to express or limited stop routes, because of the nature of the road itself. Making it flexi-route probably won't help either, as from Shirley there aren't really any other alternative pathways that would avoid any traffic problems. Look at the X20, it is a limited stop service that still gets delayed because of traffic, and carries relatively few passengers due to its limited stop nature.
Quote from: Stu on June 22, 2017, 07:06:45 PM
Look at the X20, it is a limited stop service that still gets delayed because of traffic, and carries relatively few passengers due to its limited stop nature.
The main reason it carries few passengers between Birmingham and Shirley is because most people have NX passes and tickets
@Stu, which have the benefit of being cheaper than N bus passes (slightly) and passengers can use the majority of services across the West Midlands .
Quote from: 2206 on June 22, 2017, 07:12:50 PM
The main reason it carries few passengers between Birmingham and Shirley is because most people have NX passes and tickets @Stu, which have the benefit of being cheaper than N bus passes (slightly) and passengers can use the majority of services across the West Midlands .
Or maybe because there are more frequent services along the Stratford Road. The 6 and 37 are the most frequent services along there.
Quote from: Jack B on June 22, 2017, 07:19:20 PM
Or maybe because there are more frequent services along the Stratford Road. The 6 and 37 are the most frequent services along there.
That to yes, so people have NX passes and tickets for that reason.
Quote from: 2206 on June 22, 2017, 07:12:50 PM
The main reason it carries few passengers between Birmingham and Shirley is because most people have NX passes and tickets @Stu, which have the benefit of being cheaper than N bus passes (slightly) and passengers can use the majority of services across the West Midlands .
Quote from: Jack B on June 22, 2017, 07:19:20 PM
Or maybe because there are more frequent services along the Stratford Road. The 6 and 37 are the most frequent services along there.
Because it is limited stop between Hall Green and Birmingham, passengers won't catch it if it doesn't stop at their chosen stop. The journey time is not much quicker though during peaks, as their buses still have to sit in the same queue of traffic or wait behind 'all-stops' buses at stops it doesn't call at because it can't overtake.
Quote from: Stu on June 22, 2017, 07:49:09 PM
Because it is limited stop between Hall Green and Birmingham, passengers won't catch it if it doesn't stop at their chosen stop. The journey time is not much quicker though during peaks, as their buses still have to sit in the same queue of traffic or wait behind 'all-stops' buses at stops it doesn't call at because it can't overtake.
Nx travel card does have too much power I must admit
Quote from: Trident 4194 on June 22, 2017, 08:05:13 PM
Nx travel card does have too much power I must admit
If you've got an nBus pass, or cash in your hand, and you're stood at the stop on Camp Hill and only want to go to Ladypool Road or Main Street in Sparkbrook (as an example), the X20 is never going to be an option for you, because it doesn't stop at those stops, thats my point with regards to limited stop services.
Quote from: Stu on June 22, 2017, 07:49:09 PM
Because it is limited stop between Hall Green and Birmingham, passengers won't catch it if it doesn't stop at their chosen stop. The journey time is not much quicker though during peaks, as their buses still have to sit in the same queue of traffic or wait behind 'all-stops' buses at stops it doesn't call at because it can't overtake.
Seen it loads of times sitting in the traffic. They can never overtake unless nothing is coming in the other direction, which is very rare if they do. I recall riding a 2 last year with an X20 stuck right behind from Showell Green Lane to Palmerston Road.
Quote from: Alex on June 22, 2017, 12:10:22 PM
Just a thought to try to improve some of the services with the South Birmingham review fairly soon.
1) Five Ways - Edgbaston Cricket Ground - Moseley - Acocks Green - Gospel Oak
Changes: Will terminate at Acocks Green, en route for Gospel Oak. See 31 for
services between Acocks Green & Gospel Oak.
2) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Billesley - Warstock - Maypole
3) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Billesley - Yardley Wood
Changes: 2 & 3 rerouted between City & Yardley Wood Road, serving Bordesley Middleway,
A4540 Highgate Road & Stoney Lane.
Showell Green Lane will no longer be served by service 2.
5) Birmingham - Sparkhill - Sarehole Mill - Shirley - Widney Manor - Solihull
Changes: Will no longer continue beyond Shirley, towards Solihull. See new service X7 for
these areas.
X7) Birmingham - non stop to Shirley - Widney Manor - Solihull Town Centre - Solihull Station
Changes: New service, will operate every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime,
every 30 minutes Evenings & Sundays. Flexible routing to avoid traffic
between Shirley, Saracens Head & Birmingham city centre.
Not quite done yet, but that's a rough overview of what I've got so far.
I pretty much agree with Stu here. The 1 only runs to Gospel Oak every 20 mins, as oppose to every 10 mins between Five Ways & Acocks Green. The purpose of the extension to Gospel Oak is merely to link to Acocks Green village. It follows a different route to the 31, so I don't think you can say that they have the 31.
What you've said about using the 31 as an alternative is like withdrawing WA997 and saying, see WAX51 between City & Walsall. What about in between?
The 2/3 idea is quite bad tbh. You can fit any NXWM bus under that bridge as far as I'm aware (as it's taller than it says) but officially only unto 14"3. The AG Geminis fit underneath, I've seen Tridents on diversion go underneath there, but this was before the bridge height was adjusted. You won't save anytime at peaks on this diversion. You could add time to the current route in some cases. Also, as Stu says, you're reducing capacity on Stratford Road, and basically straining everything else. Personally I disagree with the 6 & 37 being single deck operated, and taking away the 2/3 would definitely impact those services even more than they are already. I hate using the 6/37 out of City.
The 5 being curtailed at Shirley. This is something that I think would greatly improve the reliability of the service, and I agree with it. However, I would replace it with the current 6A, but just run it during the day, at every 20 mins.
X7. Again, agree with Stu. Look at the X20. The X20 may aswell use all the stops between Hall Green & City Centre. It's still sitting in the same traffic.
Quote from: MW on June 22, 2017, 08:55:02 PM
I pretty much agree with Stu here. The 1 only runs to Gospel Oak every 20 mins, as oppose to every 10 mins between Five Ways & Acocks Green. The purpose of the extension to Gospel Oak is merely to link to Acocks Green village. It follows a different route to the 31, so I don't think you can say that they have the 31.
What you've said about using the 31 as an alternative is like withdrawing WA997 and saying, see WAX51 between City & Walsall. What about in between?
The 2/3 idea is quite bad tbh. You can fit any NXWM bus under that bridge as far as I'm aware (as it's taller than it says) but officially only unto 14"3. The AG Geminis fit underneath, I've seen Tridents on diversion go underneath there, but this was before the bridge height was adjusted. You won't save anytime at peaks on this diversion. You could add time to the current route in some cases. Also, as Stu says, you're reducing capacity on Stratford Road, and basically straining everything else. Personally I disagree with the 6 & 37 being single deck operated, and taking away the 2/3 would definitely impact those services even more than they are already. I hate using the 6/37 out of City.
The 5 being curtailed at Shirley. This is something that I think would greatly improve the reliability of the service, and I agree with it. However, I would replace it with the current 6A, but just run it during the day, at every 20 mins.
X7. Again, agree with Stu. Look at the X20. The X20 may aswell use all the stops between Hall Green & City Centre. It's still sitting in the same traffic.
TBH Bordesley Middleway gets rammed heading towards Camp Hill in the evening Peak. Personally, I think all the Stratford Routes are fine.
I'm not a fan on Single Deckers on the 6/37 either, but there was drop of vandalism when the 6 went Single Deck in 2010. Personally, I would swap the Single Deckers with Deckers on the 6 and SD's on the 2/3. Doubt that would happen though, they'd probably be a rise in vandalism on the 6.
Quote from: MW on June 22, 2017, 08:55:02 PM
I pretty much agree with Stu here. The 1 only runs to Gospel Oak every 20 mins, as oppose to every 10 mins between Five Ways & Acocks Green. The purpose of the extension to Gospel Oak is merely to link to Acocks Green village. It follows a different route to the 31, so I don't think you can say that they have the 31.
Its every 20 minutes across the full route, every 10 between Five Ways and Acocks Green in the peaks
@MW. In the peaks at the 10 minute frequency, some of the 1 journeys can be completely empty, 2207 on the 15:37 only picked up 6 people all the way from Acocks Green to Five Ways the other day.
Quote from: 2206 on June 22, 2017, 09:07:20 PM
Its every 20 minutes across the full route, every 10 between Five Ways and Acocks Green in the peaks @MW.
Isn't that what I said.
As for how many people use the service, it depends when your seeing it. It does get very full at peaks in and around Moseley, in my experience.
Quote from: MW on June 22, 2017, 09:20:50 PM
Isn't that what I said.
As for how many people use the service, it depends when your seeing it. It does get very full at peaks in and around Moseley, in my experience.
No you said, The 1 only runs to Gospel Oak every 20 mins, as oppose to every 10 mins between Five Ways & Acocks Green.
But its every 20 across the full route and only every 10 in the peaks between Acocks Green and Five Ways.
Quote from: 2206 on June 22, 2017, 09:22:58 PM
No you said, The 1 only runs to Gospel Oak every 20 mins, as oppose to every 10 mins between Five Ways & Acocks Green.
But its every 20 across the full route and only every 10 in the peaks between Acocks Green and Five Ways.
Sorry. I don't understand what you're saying. You're just saying what I said in different words. What is your point?
Quote from: MW on June 22, 2017, 09:31:19 PM
Sorry. I don't understand what you're saying. You're just saying what I said in different words. What is your point?
Its not because your post never said anything about it just being ever 10 minutes in the peaks and that at other times its every 20.
You said "the 1 runs to Gospel Oak ever 20 mins, as opposed to every 10 mins between Acocks Green and Five Ways".
I said "Its every 20 minutes across the full route, every 10 between Five Ways and Acocks Green in the peaks".
Quite different posts.
Quote from: Stu on June 22, 2017, 08:49:50 PM
If you've got an nBus pass, or cash in your hand, and you're stood at the stop on Camp Hill and only want to go to Ladypool Road or Main Street in Sparkbrook (as an example), the X20 is never going to be an option for you, because it doesn't stop at those stops, thats my point with regards to limited stop services.
You off your rocker mate? They don't know what bus fares are in Camp Hill and Ladywood.
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on June 22, 2017, 10:07:17 PM
You off your rocker mate? They don't know what bus fares are in Camp Hill and Ladywood.
He means Camp Hill Island in the Digbeth area, just outside Birmingham City Centre not Camp Hill in Smethwick.
@Ashley 60171
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on June 22, 2017, 10:07:17 PM
You off your rocker mate? They don't know what bus fares are in Camp Hill and Ladywood.
What's with all this anger?
Quote from: 2206 on June 22, 2017, 10:10:02 PM
He means Camp Hill Island in the Digbeth area, just outside Birmingham City Centre not Camp Hill in Smethwick. @Ashley 60171
Cape Hill is in Smethwick.
@2206
Quote from: Jack B on June 22, 2017, 10:29:21 PM
Cape Hill is in Smethwick. @2206
Yes got the name mixed up there sorry, I don't get his post then, to be honest.
Quote from: 2206 on June 22, 2017, 10:32:04 PM
Cape Hill Island is in Digbeth, just outside Birmingham City Centre, the name of the road is also Camp Hill (The place Stu was referring to and the X20 visits).
For goodness sake why are you mocking me?
Cape Hill is SMETHWICK!
Camp Hill is DIGBETH!
Like I said in my previous post Cape Hill is Smethwick. Your original post said Camp Hill was in Smethwick. End of convo
Yes I know the X20 serves Camp Hill!
Quote from: Jack B on June 22, 2017, 10:36:25 PM
For goodness sake why are you mocking me?
Cape Hill is SMETHWICK!
Camp Hill is DIGBETH!
Like I said in my previous post Cape Hill is Smethwick. Your original post said Camp Hill was in Smethwick. End of convo
I wasn't mocking you, I was editing it after clicking post to early by mistake before I properly read your posr my new post is above, posted not long after yours.
Quote from: 2206 on June 22, 2017, 10:39:33 PM
I wasn't mocking you, I was editing it after clicking post to early, my new post is above, posted seconds after yours.
Yes I posted before you edited your post, if you see the times of my post and the edited post...
@Jack B, don't worry, you're not the only one who thinks this guy is lost. I think he's the one who found the weed that the child left on the bus lmfao
Quote from: MW on June 23, 2017, 12:17:14 AM
@Jack B, don't worry, you're not the only one who thinks this guy is lost. I think he's the one who found the weed that the child left on the bus lmfao
LOL!
He probably rolled it up and took it of the bus!
Withdraw the whole of the PB 38. The route is a waste of time, just the 96 route doing a loop of The Vale. There's no more than 5 people on them as well. It never seems to run on time. People can easily do a 5 minute walk from Spitfire Island to the High Street, so not much difference, when getting off the 96 and get a 67/71 to the High Street.
Quote from: Jack on November 10, 2017, 09:54:18 PM
Withdraw the whole of the PB 38. The route is a waste of time, just the 96 route doing a loop of The Vale. There's no more than 5 people on them as well. It never seems to run on time. People can easily do a 5 minute walk from Spitfire Island to the High Street, so not much difference, when getting off the 96 and get a 67/71 to the High Street.
5 minute walk from Spitfire to High Street????
Mate, I walk fast, like real fast, I'd never manage that!!
I had been thinking about the routes around there myself, best I can suggest really is combining the 71 and 96 from Chelmsley Wood into a single more frequent route up to Spitfire Island and into the Vale, then split say into a 71 to Sutton and 71A to Erdington but both of them more direct
The 38 can then stay as a half hourly service along Holly Lane and through the Vale to Minworth and up to Sutton - almost exactly like the 68a/c used to be :D :D :D
Quote from: Kevin on November 10, 2017, 11:32:58 PM
5 minute walk from Spitfire to High Street????
Mate, I walk fast, like real fast, I'd never manage that!!
I had been thinking about the routes around there myself, best I can suggest really is combining the 71 and 96 from Chelmsley Wood into a single more frequent route up to Spitfire Island and into the Vale, then split say into a 71 to Sutton and 71A to Erdington but both of them more direct
The 38 can then stay as a half hourly service along Holly Lane and through the Vale to Minworth and up to Sutton - almost exactly like the 68a/c used to be :D :D :D
The 38 in all fairness is one big waste of time. NX should of it withdrew ages ago. The old 638 was the same. If it was extended to somewhere where it could be reliable and carry more then it would probably work. It's pretty much the 96 just doing a loop of The Vale.
Apologies i was incorrect at the timings of walking to the High Street, it takes about 10-15 minutes, but people can simply wait for the 71 or 67 if they don't want to walk.
Quote from: Jack on November 11, 2017, 09:13:23 AM
The 38 in all fairness is one big waste of time. NX should of it withdrew ages ago. The old 638 was the same. If it was extended to somewhere where it could be reliable and carry more then it would probably work. It's pretty much the 96 just doing a loop of The Vale.
Apologies i was incorrect at the timings of walking to the High Street, it takes about 10-15 minutes, but people can simply wait for the 71 or 67 if they don't want to walk.
I agree it does seem a waste of time. Lots if people can still easily walk it and if they're unable to its easy enough to change onto the 67 and 71 at Spitfire Island. I've never seen more than a few people on it.
Quote from: 2206 on November 11, 2017, 09:23:20 AM
I agree it does seem a waste of time. Lots if people can still easily walk it and if they're unable to its easy enough to change onto the 67 and 71 at Spitfire Island. I've never seen more than a few people on it.
I know a PB driver who drives the 38 (Erdington rota) and says it's pointless. He even said it carries fresh air during the day. I don't think the 38 has ever been a busy route in its life time, going back to the 638. I did enjoy B10's on the 638 though, they were empty so it meant for thrash, sadly those days are long gone.
Quote from: Jack on November 11, 2017, 09:27:41 AM
I know a PB driver who drives the 38 (Erdington rota) and says it's pointless. He even said it carries fresh air during the day. I don't think the 38 has ever been a busy route in its life time, going back to the 638. I did enjoy B10's on the 638 though, they were empty so it meant for thrash, sadly those days are long gone.
Tbh the 38 seems like the sort of route you would expect a smaller operator to run with a solo or dart
Quote from: Lukeee on November 11, 2017, 10:21:53 PM
Tbh the 38 seems like the sort of route you would expect a smaller operator to run with a solo or dart
You could just a Primo on it! If it didn't interwork with the FD I put the extra E200 on it.
Is the 38 commercially operated or is it a WMCA contract?
Quote from: Jack on November 11, 2017, 11:02:32 PM
You could just a Primo on it! If it didn't interwork with the FD I put the extra E200 on it.
Perry Barr use a decker on it due to overloading on a Scania!
Quote from: Jack on November 11, 2017, 11:02:32 PM
You could just a Primo on it! If it didn't interwork with the FD I put the extra E200 on it.
You obviously have not seen the early morning journeys, first 2 from Castle Vale. Those are busy. When I done them I had 761 full and standing both trips
Quote from: MW on November 11, 2017, 11:59:17 PM
Is the 38 commercially operated or is it a WMCA contract?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/479382/
Comercial.
Quote from: Tony on November 12, 2017, 08:59:23 AM
Perry Barr use a decker on it due to overloading on a Scania!
What journeys don't cope with an Omnlink, peak trips?
Quote from: 2206 on November 12, 2017, 10:57:41 AM
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/479382/
Comercial.What journeys don't cope with an Omnlink, peak trips?
School times
Quote from: Tony on November 12, 2017, 11:00:02 AM
School times
Thanks for the info.
Quote from: Jack on November 10, 2017, 09:54:18 PM
Withdraw the whole of the PB 38. The route is a waste of time, just the 96 route doing a loop of The Vale. There's no more than 5 people on them as well. It never seems to run on time. People can easily do a 5 minute walk from Spitfire Island to the High Street, so not much difference, when getting off the 96 and get a 67/71 to the High Street.
Couldn't it just be operated at School Times then, as a School Days only journey?
Quote from: 2206 on November 12, 2017, 11:03:50 AM
Thanks for the info.Couldn't it just be operated at School Times then, as a School Days only journey?
It is a profitable route why do people want to stop running it, see John's comments about the c10:00 journeys as well
Re: the 38
Guessing the timetable atm doesn't lend itself to this, but wonder if there'd be any use in making it a bit more of a circular around the Vale taking on bits of the old 696, ie Yatesbury Avenue and Cadbury Drive, maybe even avoid the Fort and come down Kingsbury Road into the estate?
Quote from: Kevin on November 12, 2017, 01:51:48 PM
Re: the 38
Guessing the timetable atm doesn't lend itself to this, but wonder if there'd be any use in making it a bit more of a circular around the Vale taking on bits of the old 696, ie Yatesbury Avenue and Cadbury Drive, maybe even avoid the Fort and come down Kingsbury Road into the estate?
There was a Circular round Castle Vale, Central Buses ran until not to long ago, the 696, nobody used it. If it was used, it'd probably still be around today.
So why would you need to replace it.
Quote from: John on November 12, 2017, 09:23:18 AM
You obviously have not seen the early morning journeys, first 2 from Castle Vale. Those are busy. When I done them I had 761 full and standing both trips
I don't get why those people can't catch a 67/71 and then get the 96 at Spitfire Island. Not being the funny but the Deckers during the day are wasted. I don't get the point in the route.
Quote from: Jack on November 12, 2017, 06:02:19 PM
I don't get why those people can't catch a 67/71 and then get the 96 at Spitfire Island. Not being the funny but the Deckers during the day are wasted. I don't get the point in the route.
Let's just detach the top deck during the day then?
On you logic I don't get the point of your beloved 52 after all people could just catch the 51 and change onto the 28?
Quote from: Tony on November 12, 2017, 06:45:54 PM
Let's just detach the top deck during the day then?
On you logic I don't get the point of your beloved 52 after all people could just catch the 51 and change onto the 28?
Why should they? The 52 is a route that gets loadings during the day. The 38 doesn't get anything apart from Peaks.
1901 was rammed on Saturday, no Deckers on Saturday. Not being funny but it's taking the p*ss. Don't worry I've complained to NX.
Quote from: Jack on November 12, 2017, 06:56:35 PM
Why should they? The 52 is a route that gets loadings during the day. The 38 doesn't get anything apart from Peaks.
1901 was rammed on Saturday, no Deckers on Saturday. Not being funny but it's taking the p*ss. Don't worry I've complained to NX.
Have you ever thought nx maybe running low on compliant buses. Putting an omnilink on a bus that doesn't go into centre could be deemed a waste as they may be needed to run on services entering Birmingham.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 12, 2017, 08:52:13 PM
Have you ever thought nx maybe running low on compliant buses. Putting an omnilink on a bus that doesn't go into centre could be deemed a waste as they may be needed to run on services entering Birmingham.
All of our OmniLinks on routes that don't enter City are needed because of low bridges in Erdington (28 & 96) and Castle Vale (71)
All of our deckers bar 4226 are compliant with the City Centre low emissions rules
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 12, 2017, 08:52:13 PM
Have you ever thought nx maybe running low on compliant buses. Putting an omnilink on a bus that doesn't go into centre could be deemed a waste as they may be needed to run on services entering Birmingham.
They've got compliant Gemini on the 72, the 72 doesn't enter the City Centre.
All of the E400 at Coventry are compliant aswell and not one of there routes enters Birmingham City Centre.
So they do put compliant buses on routes that don't enter Birmingham City Centre.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 12, 2017, 08:52:13 PM
Have you ever thought nx maybe running low on compliant buses. Putting an omnilink on a bus that doesn't go into centre could be deemed a waste as they may be needed to run on services entering Birmingham.
The 127/8 are routes that get Omnilinks a lot because of WB not having enough compliant Deckers. Though they do cope just like the 0405N's did, it was the Peaks they got rammed.
Believe me now PB have enough standard Deckers parked in the garage weekdays. The photo of 731 on the 19/9/17 shows a spare Gemini and ALX400 parked up alongside spare Omnilinks in case vehicles are going to breakdown.
Quote from: Jack on November 12, 2017, 09:22:08 PM
The 127/8 are routes that get Omnilinks a lot because of WB not having enough compliant Deckers. Though they do cope just like the 0405N's did, it was the Peaks they got rammed.
Believe me now PB have enough standard Deckers parked in the garage weekdays. The photo of 731 on the 19/9/17 shows a spare Gemini and ALX400 parked up alongside spare Omnilinks in case vehicles are going to breakdown.
You really do not know what you are talking about.
Quote from: Tony on November 12, 2017, 09:40:02 PM
You really do not know what you are talking about.
No I don't obviously. Neither does the allocator throwing E200's on the Peak 52's.
Quote from: Jack on November 12, 2017, 09:22:08 PM
The 127/8 are routes that get Omnilinks a lot because of WB not having enough compliant Deckers. Though they do cope just like the 0405N's did, it was the Peaks they got rammed.
Believe me now PB have enough standard Deckers parked in the garage weekdays. The photo of 731 on the 19/9/17 shows a spare Gemini and ALX400 parked up alongside spare Omnilinks in case vehicles are going to breakdown.
...that's not why they get Omnilinks
Quote from: Jack on November 12, 2017, 09:42:57 PM
No I don't obviously. Neither does the allocator throwing E200's on the Peak 52's.
Feel like
@Trident 4194 has been rubbing off on you...
Let's set a scenario in the yard there is a E200 SWB (working fine) an Omnilink (has a defect and needs work) an alx400 that's not compliant.
The allocator has a choice, send a E200 out so the board is fully covered replace it when the Omnilink is fixed, think ah it will not cope with the loads so let's let the 52 boards run with a missing bus until the Omnilink is fixed and lose money and gain complaints or send in a non compliant bus and potentially get a fine?
JUST BECAUSE there is deckers in the garage does not mean there are standing there for no reason, there are several reasons why they are there...
I feel like some kids have a business degree and know how a business works. Tony has been in this job for years and has way more knowledge about the bus company than you and even though he provides you with FACTS you still have something else to say....
It's not always about the 52/4H or what ever you catch the most
I catch the X10 and I'd rather have a bus appear even if it's not a platinum, I mean hell
@karl724223 should ask for a SWB E200 to be on the X10 and I bet people will be happy a bus appears than wait an extra 20 mins for another bus!
Quote from: Chris on November 13, 2017, 10:38:41 PM
Feel like @Trident 4194 has been rubbing off on you...
Let's set a scenario in the yard there is a E200 SWB (working fine) an Omnilink (has a defect and needs work) an alx400 that's not compliant.
The allocator has a choice, send a E200 out so the board is fully covered replace it when the Omnilink is fixed, think ah it will not cope with the loads so let's let the 52 boards run with a missing bus until the Omnilink is fixed and lose money and gain complaints or send in a non compliant bus and potentially get a fine?
JUST BECAUSE there is deckers in the garage does not mean there are standing there for no reason, there are several reasons why they are there...
I feel like some kids have a business degree and know how a business works. Tony has been in this job for years and has way more knowledge about the bus company than you and even though he provides you with FACTS you still have something else to say....
It's not always about the 52/4H or what ever you catch the most
I catch the X10 and I'd rather have a bus appear even if it's not a platinum, I mean hell @karl724223 should ask for a SWB E200 to be on the X10 and I bet people will be happy a bus appears than wait an extra 20 mins for another bus!
It's has been mentioned that NX are occasionally allowed to send a non-compliant Decker into the City. I agree that a bus is better than nothing, but putting a stumpy out on a busy Peak board is not on and people have complained about there being no seats and unreliability. I never say anything is always about the 52. I've seen worst on other routes. No I don't moan about buses being 2 minutes late on the 4H/9, or buses running NIS for no reason. I'd rather wait 20 minutes for the next bus then catch a rammed E200 which has no standing room. No he's not been rubbing off on me. I'm not half arsed.
Quote from: Jack on November 13, 2017, 11:04:40 PM
It's has been mentioned that NX are occasionally allowed to send a non-compliant Decker into the City. I agree that a bus is better than nothing, but putting a stumpy out on a busy Peak board is not on and people have complained about there being no seats and unreliability. I never say anything is always about the 52. I've seen worst on other routes. No I don't moan about buses being 2 minutes late on the 4H/9, or buses running NIS for no reason. I'd rather wait 20 minutes for the next bus then catch a rammed E200 which has no standing room. No he's not been rubbing off on me. I'm not half arsed.
That's just you though, a lot of people would presumably rather get the first one that turns up and stand, rather than wait 20 minutes for the next one, especially in winter. Look at it this way, if you're commuting to work, would you rather get the first one that arrives and stand, or wait 20 minutes in the cold just to get one where you can have a seat, and probably arrive late?
Quote from: DJ98 on November 14, 2017, 03:09:35 AM
That's just you though, a lot of people would presumably rather get the first one that turns up and stand, rather than wait 20 minutes for the next one, especially in winter. Look at it this way, if you're commuting to work, would you rather get the first one that arrives and stand, or wait 20 minutes in the cold just to get one where you can have a seat, and probably arrive late?
I would rather get the first bus if there is room to stand, but when it's completely rammed then I'd rather wait for the next bus. Or just catch a 51 then a 28.
I would like the reintroduction of the 345/349 routes around Norton Canes. It would make life easier for myself.
On a serious note I am very surprised there is no presence in Norton Canes for NXWM.
Quote from: Dutsey on November 14, 2017, 01:10:57 PM
I would like the reintroduction of the 345/349 routes around Norton Canes. It would make life easier for myself.
On a serious note I am very surprised there is no presence in Norton Canes for NXWM.
There could have been if that one option on the 937 peak journeys on the last review had been taken up.
Take it you're not a fan of Arriva & their half assed attempts to run a bus service!
Quote from: Jack on November 14, 2017, 07:34:00 AM
I would rather get the first bus if there is room to stand, but when it's completely rammed then I'd rather wait for the next bus. Or just catch a 51 then a 28.
If the driver is stopping to load passengers then there is room.
Quote from: Dom on November 14, 2017, 06:24:17 PM
If the driver is stopping to load passengers then there is room.
Not always, some will stop with an overcrowded bus.
Others will stop and let the bus become to overcrowded until they then switch the engine of and tell people to get off and tell them that they aren't going anywhere till they get of.
Quote from: 2206 on November 14, 2017, 07:01:39 PM
Not always, some will stop with an overcrowded bus.
Others will stop and let the bus become to overcrowded until they then switch the engine of and tell people to get off and tell them that they aren't going anywhere till they get of.
That is a common site on both the 8 and 11. I know it won't happen but the 8 needs Deckers. The Omnilinks can't cope in the Peaks, the Merc's weren't any better either, but it will never happen because of the height restriction at Bordesley.
Quote from: Jack on November 14, 2017, 08:16:23 PM
That is a common site on both the 8 and 11. I know it won't happen but the 8 needs Deckers. The Omnilinks can't cope in the Peaks, the Merc's weren't any better either, but it will never happen because of the height restriction at Bordesley.
Where's the height restriction in Bordesley?
Quote from: MW on November 14, 2017, 08:40:21 PM
Where's the height restriction in Bordesley?
The Garage. Deckers can't enter the garage.
Quote from: 2206 on November 14, 2017, 07:01:39 PM
Not always, some will stop with an overcrowded bus.
Others will stop and let the bus become to overcrowded until they then switch the engine of and tell people to get off and tell them that they aren't going anywhere till they get of.
Quote from: Dom on November 14, 2017, 06:24:17 PM
If the driver is stopping to load passengers then there is room.
There have been a number of occasions where I have managed to battle my way onto what looked like an overcrowded bus, only to find there are plenty of seats available, just that some people prefer to stand in the most awkward part of the bus, rather than sit next to somebody else.
Then of course you also have those selfish passengers who choose to make seats unavailable by putting their bags/coats etc on the seat next to them. Some will reluctantly move their bags to make a seat available once you indicate to them that you'd like to take a seat, while others will just blatantly ignore you.
Quote from: 2206 on November 14, 2017, 08:41:27 PM
The Garage. Deckers can't enter the garage.
They can as I have seen Tridents several times. Not sure how much clearance there is though, might be slightly too close for comfort! ;)
Quote from: Stu on November 14, 2017, 09:01:07 PM
There have been a number of occasions where I have managed to battle my way onto what looked like an overcrowded bus, only to find there are plenty of seats available, just that some people prefer to stand in the most awkward part of the bus, rather than sit next to somebody else.
Then of course you also have those selfish passengers who choose to make seats unavailable by putting their bags/coats etc on the seat next to them. Some will reluctantly move their bags to make a seat available once you indicate to them that you'd like to take a seat, while others will just blatantly ignore you.
You mean seat hoggers. That's a pet peeve of mine. Normally because they don't want someone smelly sitting next to them. Though a lot of them huff and puff when you kindly ask them to move their belongings.
Quote from: D10 on November 14, 2017, 09:11:24 PM
They can as I have seen Tridents several times. Not sure how much clearance there is though, might be slightly too close for comfort! ;)
They can be parked in the forecourt, but not inside as they'll turn into Single Deckers! But all of Bordesley's routes need Deckers in the Peaks.
Quote from: Jack on November 14, 2017, 09:33:33 PM
You mean seat hoggers. That's a pet peeve of mine. Normally because they don't want someone smelly sitting next to them. Though a lot of them huff and puff when you kindly ask them to move their belongings.
They can be parked in the forecourt, but not inside as they'll turn into Single Deckers! But all of Bordesley's routes need Deckers in the Peaks.
Don't want to start an argument but as I said I have seen double deckers several times in the garage. There used to be a daily run by a bus through the garage when a 97 PM journey used to start from inside the site after a school working, this was worked by a DD most of the time.
Quote from: Jack on November 14, 2017, 09:33:33 PM
You mean seat hoggers. That's a pet peeve of mine. Normally because they don't want someone smelly sitting next to them. Though a lot of them huff and puff when you kindly ask them to move their belongings.
They can be parked in the forecourt, but not inside as they'll turn into Single Deckers! But all of Bordesley's routes need Deckers in the Peaks.
Yes deckers fit in the building.
Quote from: Tony on November 14, 2017, 09:44:01 PM
Yes deckers fit in the building.
Thanks for the clarification - when passing I usually see Deckers parked on the forecourt, but I've always thought it to be tight getting a Decker, so a Trident just about gets under.
DECKERS on 55!!!!!!
Quote from: Jack D on November 16, 2017, 08:04:05 PM
DECKERS on 55!!!!!!
Also the 17! But I doubt BY will have any Deckers.
Quote from: Jack on November 16, 2017, 08:04:28 PM
Also the 17! But I doubt BY will have any Deckers.
The 17 operates just fine with single-deckers.
The problem it has, being a frequent service, is that when there is heavy traffic congestion, and gaps appear in service, the first bus collects up all the waiting passengers and becomes over-crowded; waiting passengers will all try to cram onto an already over-crowded bus, while another one may only be seconds behind. The trailing buses, that are usually less full, overtake the stopping bus, so the passengers who have the decency to let the full bus pass by end up losing on both counts.
Unfortunately, at peak times, there is usually heavy congestion, so this situation is not rare for the 17 (same applies to other high-frequency single-deck services like the 6 and 37). I've been stood at the Bordesley Station stop on Coventry Road and seen more than one fully loaded Omnilink pass by without stopping straight after each other. I've also looked on the NX app and seen up to 20mins before a 17 is due from there, with 5 or 6 following each other in the opposite direction (towards city by McDonalds).
Despite what some people might think, traffic congestion IS a serious issue, and not an excuse for buses to run late, as some people are led to believe.
Quote from: Stu on November 16, 2017, 08:44:58 PM
The 17 operates just fine with single-deckers.
The problem it has, being a frequent service, is that when there is heavy traffic congestion, and gaps appear in service, the first bus collects up all the waiting passengers and becomes over-crowded; waiting passengers will all try to cram onto an already over-crowded bus, while another one may only be seconds behind. The trailing buses, that are usually less full, overtake the stopping bus, so the passengers who have the decency to let the full bus pass by end up losing on both counts.
Unfortunately, at peak times, there is usually heavy congestion, so this situation is not rare for the 17 (same applies to other high-frequency single-deck services like the 6 and 37). I've been stood at the Bordesley Station stop on Coventry Road and seen more than one fully loaded Omnilink pass by without stopping straight after each other. I've also looked on the NX app and seen up to 20mins before a 17 is due from there, with 5 or 6 following each other in the opposite direction (towards city by McDonalds).
Despite what some people might think, traffic congestion IS a serious issue, and not an excuse for buses to run late, as some people are led to believe.
Back when the the 73 came to the city and shared the Stop with the 17, it use to help the loadings in the Peak times for the 17.
Quote from: Jack on November 16, 2017, 09:07:56 PM
Back when the the 73 came to the city and shared the Stop with the 17, it use to help the loadings in the Peak times for the 17.
The reason they were split was because 17 passengers were filling up the less frequent 73 stopping 73 passengers getting on, not the other way around, the 17 has always coped with single decks
What was the reason the 55 became a single deck route, just curious. Was it because after lea hall shut the freq increased and no other garage apart from by to run it?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 16, 2017, 09:56:00 PM
What was the reason the 55 became a single deck route, just curious. Was it because after lea hall shut the freq increased and no other garage apart from by to run it?
Couldn't the same be said for the 54?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 16, 2017, 09:56:00 PM
What was the reason the 55 became a single deck route, just curious. Was it because after lea hall shut the freq increased and no other garage apart from by to run it?
The route initially moved to BC, and although Mercs were the norm, it wasn't totally uncommon to see the odd Trident allocated. Of course then it moved to BY that as we know has a single deck fleet. on the whole the Scanias cope on the 55, even with the loss of the 70 and 72 along parts of the route. Used to be a lovely route too, especially on a fleetline!
Quote from: Gareth on November 17, 2017, 08:16:24 AM
The route initially moved to BC, and although Mercs were the norm, it wasn't totally uncommon to see the odd Trident allocated. Of course then it moved to BY that as we know has a single deck fleet. on the whole the Scanias cope on the 55, even with the loss of the 70 and 72 along parts of the route. Used to be a lovely route too, especially on a fleetline!
I loved riding the Merc's on the 54/55. The Kingshurst terminus was my favourite terminus, until June. Shame nothing serves it anymore.
I'd curtail the 48 back to the QE again. I can't see any point of it going as far as Northfield. It's never that busy.
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 18, 2017, 12:47:15 PM
I'd curtail the 48 back to the QE again. I can't see any point of it going as far as Northfield. It's never that busy.
I was a little surprised when the new 48/48A timetable was posted, that the 48E journeys on Sunday are only to Harborne Swimming Baths and not to at least the QE
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 18, 2017, 11:03:18 PM
I was a little surprised when the new 48/48A timetable was posted, that the 48E journeys on Sunday are only to Harborne Swimming Baths and not to at least the QE
Probably easier to turn around to use a bus less without battling through the QE traffic, at the same time keeping the service pattern.
It's like how the 289 used to turn at Rowley Regis Hospital on a Sunday but Old Hill the rest of the week.
The 48 goes to Harborne, Northfield and the QE, all of which are covered by the 29/X64.
I'd much rather have a local service that served the likes of Quinton, Kings Norton etc. Wouldn't have to be regular, even an hourly service it'd still prove more useful.
I would like to see the old route 25 back in Dudley I believe it used to run to a circular route to Wolverhampton and it
was routed via the wrens nest,roseville, bilston,willenhall,Wednesfield, bushbury hill,and low hill,then into Wolverhampton from that end it would save a lot of time for people who like me lives in Dudley but works in willenhall it will also save changes to another route in Wolverhampton to get to willenhall
I would simply move the X12 to BC in exchange for the 60. I've not understood why AG run the X12. The 72, fair enough, because there's no other garage close enough, but the X12 would surely be easier run by BC, and then the 60 by AG. Swan Island is only down the road for the relief point as oppose to Solihull.
Logistically it'd mean ZF MMCs at BC, which is apparently a no no.
Quote from: MW on November 29, 2017, 12:52:18 PM
I would simply move the X12 to BC in exchange for the 60. I've not understood why AG run the X12. The 72, fair enough, because there's no other garage close enough, but the X12 would surely be easier run by BC, and then the 60 by AG. Swan Island is only down the road for the relief point as oppose to Solihull.
Logistically it'd mean ZF MMCs at BC, which is apparently a no no.
What if the X12's relief point was at Solihull Station? It would make sense then changing drivers in the City.
Quote from: Jack on November 29, 2017, 04:03:40 PM
What if the X12's relief point was at Solihull Station? It would make sense then changing drivers in the City.
I find it difficult to believe that the relief point is actually in the City Centre. Has Tony confirmed whether this is the case? I might have to inquire with some AG drivers about this. Why would it be in the City Centre? I know a few people on the forum have said it's in the City, but like I said, I find that difficult to believe.
Even if it was at Solihull Station, Swan is closer to AG than Solihull Station, so it still makes better sense from what I can see.
Quote from: MW on November 29, 2017, 04:35:45 PM
I find it difficult to believe that the relief point is actually in the City Centre. Has Tony confirmed whether this is the case? I might have to inquire with some AG drivers about this. Why would it be in the City Centre? I know a few people on the forum have said it's in the City, but like I said, I find that difficult to believe.
Even if it was at Solihull Station, Swan is closer to AG than Solihull Station, so it still makes better sense from what I can see.
I wonder if the drivers get the train from Spring Road? That the only fast option from AG to town. Unless they get the bus.
I feel like the 28A (formerly 98) and the 36 routes are too close to each other and they could be merged with some modifications.
I am aware both bus routes aren't really popular but there are subsidies that could be taken advantage of assuming merging the routes together is cheaper than running two routes separately.
They could be run as a circular service.
The circular route would involve starting at Ward End and following the original 28A route up to Waverley Road where it turns into Golden Hillock Road. It'll travel to the 36 terminus point in Sparkhill using Golden Hillock Road.
On the way back to Ward End, it'll use the 36 original route for entirety of its route to Heartlands Hospital. It'll have to double back on itself back to Eastfield Road then to Ward End via Cotterills Lane.
I'd have the X4 terminate at Falcon Lodge. Also have the Sutton routes (X3, X4, X5) limited stop and at peak times make the X5 continue to Tamworth and the X3 continue to Lichfield. This will help the Arriva 110 aswell as the trains I'll also have the 17 to Tile Cross miss out the low bridge at the terminus and then make it double decker to compensate for the amount of capacity. I would change the 72 to go back to City.
Quote from: Jack on November 16, 2017, 08:04:28 PM
Also the 17! But I doubt BY will have any Deckers.
Due to BY planning permissions, they are not allowed to have DD
Quote from: Bosh on December 12, 2017, 07:53:36 PM
I would change the 72 to go back to City.
Why?
Who'd benefit from it? Nobody from Sheldon would use it when they can get the X1/X2?
The X12 and 110 sufficient for Sutton to Lichfield and Tamworth and the train goes to Lichfield as well.
Quote from: Bosh on December 12, 2017, 07:53:36 PM
I'd have the X4 terminate at Falcon Lodge. Also have the Sutton routes (X3, X4, X5) limited stop and at peak times make the X5 continue to Tamworth and the X3 continue to Lichfield. This will help the Arriva 110 aswell as the trains I'll also have the 17 to Tile Cross miss out the low bridge at the terminus and then make it double decker to compensate for the amount of capacity. I would change the 72 to go back to City.
I think the X4 going to Minworth is fine. Minworth's only service to Birmingham now. It also actually stops in the entrance road for the ASDA Car park, which is better for the elderly instead of getting off the 71 and have to do a walk. X5 is fine. The X3 is fine. The 17 is fine. Why would NX change the 72 back to the City? Tbh it was unreliable and pointless between going down Drews Lane. I think the the current Bromford-City services are fine.
Make the 38 a school's/Peaks only service. Waste of time in the day, pretty much the 96 just doing a loop of Castle Vale. It only carries properly at Peaks/school times.
Or just withdraw it, I've been on it several times and the Deckers are wasted on there, it could cope with an E200.
Quote from: Jack on January 05, 2018, 05:08:51 PM
Make the 38 a school's/Peaks only service. Waste of time in the day, pretty much the 96 just doing a loop of Castle Vale. It only carries properly at Peaks/school times.
Or just withdraw it, I've been on it several times and the Deckers are wasted on there, it could cope with an E200.
I agree caught 4280 on there today during the day, 4 got on in Castle Vale, for the rest of the journey for the rest of the journey it just picked up passengers who'd have got on the 96 behind, which was empty and could easily have coped with the additional passengers, the highest number of passengers that were onboard at any point was 11, it could have easily coped with a E200.
Quote from: 2206 on January 05, 2018, 05:20:43 PM
I agree caught 4280 on there today during the day, 4 got on in Castle Vale, for the rest of the journey for the rest of the journey it just picked up passengers who'd have got on the 96 behind, which was empty and could easily have coped with the additional passengers, the highest number of passengers that were onboard at any point was 11, it could have easily coped with a E200.
But that's not the point of the decker. It's needed at school time, what do you suddenly do, take the top deck off for a few hours.
Quote from: Tony on January 05, 2018, 05:40:26 PM
But that's not the point of the decker. It's needed at school time, what do you suddenly do, take the top deck off for a few hours.
Make it a school's only service, during the daytime it's one big waste of time.
Quote from: Tony on January 05, 2018, 05:40:26 PM
But that's not the point of the decker. It's needed at school time, what do you suddenly do, take the top deck off for a few hours.
Aren't most west midland services requiring deckers at school time? Look at the X96, 241 used to be B7RLE- 15:35 from Halesowen- and it now fills up an mmc- questioning how it coped to start with?
The x96 could quiet easily go decker operation but there are no spare deckers so it can't
Anybody got a magic wand maybe borrow one of one of the kids of here
Just mentioned this on another thread but how about this :
Seeing there's now a Sunday service on Wolves 69, plus I read somewhere that the factories in Leamore Lane, Bloxwich, only had traffic at peak times/ shift changes, how about rerouting the 70 at other times by turning right at Leamore Lane instead of left, sending the route via Somerfield Road(ditching Arriva!) into Bloxwich, then via the 326 route into Dudleys Fields(short walk to Bloxwich station) then onto Mossley, terminating at the Eagle(short walk from Bloxwich North).
For the southern part of Dudleys Fields, reroute the 326 via Heather Road, Frank F then either turn at Poets Corner or Short Heath shops & go into New Invention that way.
For Turnberry Estate, I'd rather put the 1 on there, than the 2, as it would be less confusing, unless Nx would interwork the 301 & 302 through there instead.
I still think a merry hill Stourbridge to kiddiminster route needs to be looked at going via svr
Judging by how many ask in merry hill for kiddiminster and how many come by train to cradley heath train station then get on the X10 to merry hill
But what do I know only a driver
Quote from: karl724223 on January 06, 2018, 06:42:14 PM
I still think a merry hill Stourbridge to kiddiminster route needs to be looked at going via svr
Judging by how many ask in merry hill for kiddiminster and how many come by train to cradley heath train station then get on the X10 to merry hill
But what do I know only a driver
Other than looking online, do they have the timetable leaflets for the 2 Stourbridge to Kiddy bus routes in Stourbridge Bus Station for people to pick up?
Might be an idea Simon Dunn of Diamond & whoever answers the Central Buses queries on here!
Quote from: karl724223 on January 06, 2018, 06:42:14 PM
I still think a merry hill Stourbridge to kiddiminster route needs to be looked at going via svr
Judging by how many ask in merry hill for kiddiminster and how many come by train to cradley heath train station then get on the X10 to merry hill
But what do I know only a driver
I agree with this too. How about combining with the 287 to create a through hourly service to Merry Hill? There is a market there I am sure.
Extra peak time shorts on the X51
Seriously you'd fill an entire decker with the volume of passengers from Scott Arms and Tower Hill alone, I think residents around Perry Avenue have given up hope of ever getting on board because there's less and less people waiting there in the morning when we sail past stood in the doorway
I would add 244 early morning journey on Sundays. 05:52 am from Dudley and 07:50 am from QEHB.
Quote from: Sayeed on February 16, 2018, 11:24:36 PM
I would add 244 early morning journey on Sundays. 05:52 am from Dudley and 07:50 am from QEHB.
Why? Who would use it? Plus the 244 is tendered between Halesowen and the QE on a Sunday, so it would have to be seen as viable even more so by a company.
Quote from: Dom on February 16, 2018, 11:40:17 PM
Why? Who would use it? Plus the 244 is tendered between Halesowen and the QE on a Sunday, so it would have to be seen as viable even more so by a company.
I am sure nurses, nursing assistants, pharmacists, housekeepers, phlebotomists, porters and locals would welcome that idea. Few of them I know uses taxi to get to the shift and they don't wish to do early shift on Sundays.
Seriously, please do something with the 17, either split it into two routes, or run more short journeys when major disruptions occur (like when Birmingham City play at home).
I had a nice afternoon out today, which finished with me up at the airport viewing area in Sheldon Country Park. I ended up waiting over 45 minutes for a 17 from The Radleys. I knew what the problem was, as I'd travelled out of city on the 60 to Cranes Park earlier, so had encountered the matchday diversion and the resulting extra traffic congestion.
I've made a case previously for the 17 and now have first-hand experience of the frustrations passengers at the outer end of this route face when service gets disrupted because of congestion, diversions and delays at the opposite end of the route. If the route has to stay as it is, then the controllers should be adjusting more journeys to run short between Yardley and Tile Cross, to at least keep the service moving at that end of the route, and prevent all the buses getting stuck around Small Heath.
A gentleman who joined me at the same bus stop while I was waiting informed me that the other evening when Blues were playing at home, he waited nearly an hour and half for the 17.
Quote from: Stu on February 17, 2018, 06:15:08 PM
Seriously, please do something with the 17, either split it into two routes, or run more short journeys when major disruptions occur (like when Birmingham City play at home).
I had a nice afternoon out today, which finished with me up at the airport viewing area in Sheldon Country Park. I ended up waiting over 45 minutes for a 17 from The Radleys. I knew what the problem was, as I'd travelled out of city on the 60 to Cranes Park earlier, so had encountered the matchday diversion and the resulting extra traffic congestion.
I've made a case previously for the 17 and now have first-hand experience of the frustrations passengers at the outer end of this route face when service gets disrupted because of congestion, diversions and delays at the opposite end of the route. If the route has to stay as it is, then the controllers should be adjusting more journeys to run short between Yardley and Tile Cross, to at least keep the service moving at that end of the route, and prevent all the buses getting stuck around Small Heath.
A gentleman who joined me at the same bus stop while I was waiting informed me that the other evening when Blues were playing at home, he waited nearly an hour and half for the 17.
The route is late a lot whether Birmingham are playing or not. It's the tight roads it serves in Small Heath delay it a lot too.
Quote from: Jack on February 17, 2018, 06:18:44 PM
The route is late a lot whether Birmingham are playing or not. It's the tight roads it serves in Small Heath delay it a lot too.
It's nothing to do with tight roads in Small Heath, though the Green Lane diversion is obviously having an impact also at present.
My point is that while NX can't do a lot about traffic congestion, they could do more on occasions like this by adjusting more buses to run short journeys.
Quote from: Sayeed on February 17, 2018, 12:34:28 AM
I am sure nurses, nursing assistants, pharmacists, housekeepers, phlebotomists, porters and locals would welcome that idea. Few of them I know uses taxi to get to the shift and they don't wish to do early shift on Sundays.
You could argue a case for the 48, 98 & X64. Doesn't seem feasible to me
Quote from: Sh4318 on February 18, 2018, 01:03:19 AM
You could argue a case for the 48, 98 & X64. Doesn't seem feasible to me
Well apart from X64 that already operate, I genuinely didn't know about 48. But yes it is important to have it though and it would attract agency staffs as well. That route alone carries decent amount of staffs.
Quote from: Sayeed on February 18, 2018, 04:59:31 AM
Well apart from X64 that already operate, I genuinely didn't know about 48. But yes it is important to have it though and it would attract agency staffs as well. That route alone carries decent amount of staffs.
I do agree that in theory there should be a demand for early buses to the QE as the shift change happens between 7am and 7.30.
When the 448 replaced the 21 originally a number of short journies were introduced between Bartley Green and the QE. There are still early Sunday journeys on the X64 now which operates the full route.
Provided early journeys were well advertised to NHS staff they could be viable.
Quote from: sonic84 on February 18, 2018, 07:55:20 AM
Provided early journeys were well advertised to NHS staff they could be viable.
Yeah I remember few years ago when NXWM introduced Saturday morning journeys for 99 and look how it turned out.
Quote from: Stu on February 17, 2018, 06:15:08 PM
Seriously, please do something with the 17, either split it into two routes, or run more short journeys when major disruptions occur (like when Birmingham City play at home).
I had a nice afternoon out today, which finished with me up at the airport viewing area in Sheldon Country Park. I ended up waiting over 45 minutes for a 17 from The Radleys. I knew what the problem was, as I'd travelled out of city on the 60 to Cranes Park earlier, so had encountered the matchday diversion and the resulting extra traffic congestion.
I've made a case previously for the 17 and now have first-hand experience of the frustrations passengers at the outer end of this route face when service gets disrupted because of congestion, diversions and delays at the opposite end of the route. If the route has to stay as it is, then the controllers should be adjusting more journeys to run short between Yardley and Tile Cross, to at least keep the service moving at that end of the route, and prevent all the buses getting stuck around Small Heath.
A gentleman who joined me at the same bus stop while I was waiting informed me that the other evening when Blues were playing at home, he waited nearly an hour and half for the 17.
When I used to catch the 7 this was also the case every time villa would play, all the buses would get stuck by witton road in the traffic
Quote from: Lukeee on February 19, 2018, 10:29:04 AM
When I used to catch the 7 this was also the case every time villa would play, all the buses would get stuck by witton road in the traffic
The 11's tend to get stuck on Aston Lane. Also by Brookvale as the traffic often backs up.
Quote from: Jack on February 19, 2018, 11:07:37 AM
The 11's tend to get stuck on Aston Lane. Also by Brookvale as the traffic often backs up.
Aston lane is always pretty bad for traffic tbh, especially like as you say when it backs onto the roundabout on witton road
Quote from: Lukeee on February 19, 2018, 04:39:44 PM
Aston lane is always pretty bad for traffic tbh, especially like as you say when it backs onto the roundabout on witton road
The traffic from Witton Road Island (if it's bad) can back right up to Moor Lane, or worse The Ridgeway. I was riding a President on the Circle (Anti-clockwise) a few years back when Villa were playing and the traffic was all the way up to The Ridgeway. I remember seeing the 7's in 3/4s.
Quote from: Jack on February 19, 2018, 10:32:44 PM
The traffic from Witton Road Island (if it's bad) can back right up to Moor Lane, or worse The Ridgeway. I was riding a President on the Circle (Anti-clockwise) a few years back when Villa were playing and the traffic was all the way up to The Ridgeway. I remember seeing the 7's in 3/4s.
That's how it often is on match days unfortunately
I was thinking it might be possible to combine the 54 Worlds End to West Bromwich with the 55 Brandhall to Cape Hill.
They both seem to serve similar places with the main difference being the 55 serving Londonderry and the 54 going via Thimblrmill Baths. If the 54 dropped the hourly a 54B could pick up parts of the 55 but not sure how well both services are used.
Quote from: sonic84 on March 04, 2018, 01:23:52 PM
I was thinking it might be possible to combine the 54 Worlds End to West Bromwich with the 55 Brandhall to Cape Hill.
They both seem to serve similar places with the main difference being the 55 serving Londonderry and the 54 going via Thimblrmill Baths. If the 54 dropped the hourly a 54B could pick up parts of the 55 but not sure how well both services are used.
I'm trying to think of how that could work, but every way either misses out an area, or makes the route more convoluted. The 54 already goes all around the wrekin before getting to West Bromwich
X1 daytime service operates direct via Dunchurch Highway & Pickford Way, no longer serving Parkhill Shops & Allesley Village, 7 diverted to serve Parkhill Shops & daytime frequency increased to 20 minutes, evening & Sunday X1 unchanged.
Quote from: Crosville on March 16, 2018, 08:38:03 AM
X1 daytime service operates direct via Dunchurch Highway & Pickford Way, no longer serving Parkhill Shops & Allesley Village, 7 diverted to serve Parkhill Shops & daytime frequency increased to 20 minutes, evening & Sunday X1 unchanged.
I think there'd be mileage in something like that, say upping the 82 to every half hour to take on the local work and still provide a reasonable 4 buses an hour via Allesley Village
That 82 idea isn't a bad idea, gives Millisons Wood area of Meriden a 30 minute bus service in the Coventry direction, because of the road layout it's bizarre Millisons Wood have frequent X1 towards Birmingham, but you have to walk up to Showell Lane stop for the Coventry direction or wait for the hourly 82.
Quote from: Crosville on March 16, 2018, 08:38:03 AM
X1 daytime service operates direct via Dunchurch Highway & Pickford Way, no longer serving Parkhill Shops & Allesley Village, 7 diverted to serve Parkhill Shops & daytime frequency increased to 20 minutes, evening & Sunday X1 unchanged.
The X1 daytime frequency is already every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 21, 2018, 07:03:01 PM
The X1 daytime frequency is already every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime !
I think he was referring to the 7, rather than the X1
Quote from: Stu on March 21, 2018, 07:23:21 PM
I think he was referring to the 7, rather than the X1
Apologies to Crosville
Coventry
23/23A to operate as a circular route in Cheylesmore-Fenside area route unchanged but renumbered 23A/23C, 23A operates as normal via Cheylesmore to Fenside then via 23 to Allesley Park 23C reverse.
Something that I've just only thought about:
Extend the 38 from Erdington to Sutton. Giving Sutton a bus directly to the Fort. Would run the current from the Vale to Erdington and extended by using Sutton Road/New Road and Birmingham Road. It would sort of bring back the old link the 68 had, Sutton, Erdington, the Fort, Castle Vale. This way the route would be more profit making and not as pointless as the current route is.
Quote from: Jack on June 24, 2018, 03:12:32 PM
Something that I've just only thought about:
Extend the 38 from Erdington to Sutton. Giving Sutton a bus directly to the Fort. Would run the current from the Vale to Erdington and extended by using Sutton Road/New Road and Birmingham Road. It would sort of bring back the old link the 68 had, Sutton, Erdington, the Fort, Castle Vale. This way the route would be more profit making and not as pointless as the current route is.
Enough Buses already along those roads between Erdington and Sutton.
Don't you think that if the 68 was profitable, it would have remained after the changes
Quote from: John on June 24, 2018, 04:13:12 PM
Don't you think that if the 68 was profitable, it would have remained after the changes
I thought the 68 was withdrawn due to issues with reliability?
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 24, 2018, 04:14:12 PM
I thought the 68 was withdrawn due to issues with reliability?
The 68 was withdrawn with reliability issues, nothing to do with how profitable it was, it was a very profitable circular. It's a shame it went tbh. It was just very unreliable and was caught in a lot of traffic hotspots.
Quote from: Jack on June 24, 2018, 05:02:46 PM
The 68 was withdrawn with reliability issues, nothing to do with how profitable it was, it was a very profitable circular. It's a shame it went tbh. It was just very unreliable and was caught in a lot of traffic hotspots.
It would have been kept in parts if it was profitable
Quote from: Jack on June 24, 2018, 05:02:46 PM
The 68 was withdrawn with reliability issues, nothing to do with how profitable it was, it was a very profitable circular. It's a shame it went tbh. It was just very unreliable and was caught in a lot of traffic hotspots.
How do you know it was profitable? From my recollection it was mostly concessionary pass holders
Quote from: Sayeed on November 16, 2014, 05:07:37 AM
I'd let NXWM operate the 10/H route
I admit I haven't thought well on 10H part. However, maybe NXWM could give another try on 10 (or renumber it as 24A?) with slight route adjustment and operate peak hours only?
With route adjustment, I was thinking of using Court Oak Road instead of Croftdown Road.
I used this route regularly back in 2014 to avoid traffic in Harborne and it took me under 40 minutes to get to Colmore Row. It carried decent loadings and it still does when I caught in late April this year.
Quote from: Sayeed on June 26, 2018, 02:54:33 AM
I admit I haven't thought well on 10H part. However, maybe NXWM could give another try on 10 (or renumber it as 24A?) with slight route adjustment and operate peak hours only?
With route adjustment, I was thinking of using Court Oak Road instead of Croftdown Road.
I used this route regularly back in 2014 to avoid traffic in Harborne and it took me under 40 minutes to get to Colmore Row. It carried decent loadings and it still does when I caught in late April this year.
I have to say that during peak times the 10 is my go to bus to get back to Quinton from Birmingham rather than the 24. The 24 takes such a long time to get out of the city since the city loop was introduced and further traffic around Harborne doesn't help!
Unfortunately I do think the 10H has slightly lost its way now since it has been altered and adjusted to plug the gaps left in the 8A, 8C and 647. It now takes nearly an hour to get from Quinton to the City Centre and where I would have chose to get the 10H rather than the 24 before into Birmingham, I definitely would avoid it now.
Quote from: Sayeed on June 26, 2018, 02:54:33 AM
I admit I haven't thought well on 10H part. However, maybe NXWM could give another try on 10 (or renumber it as 24A?) with slight route adjustment and operate peak hours only?
With route adjustment, I was thinking of using Court Oak Road instead of Croftdown Road.
I used this route regularly back in 2014 to avoid traffic in Harborne and it took me under 40 minutes to get to Colmore Row. It carried decent loadings and it still does when I caught in late April this year.
I seem to remember TWM doing everything in their power to keep the 10 running. Shame to see it the way it is now
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 26, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
I seem to remember TWM doing everything in their power to keep the 10 running. Shame to see it the way it is now
Yes there was the 102 wasn't there which followed the 24 (103 as it was back then) to Four Dwellings, then down Quinton Road West and West Boulevard.
Replaced then with the 10, and off peak 110 which extended up Quinton Road West and on to Blackheath via Quinton Road West and Olive Lane Estate.
It sure is a shame to see the 10/10H/10S as it is now.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 26, 2018, 05:24:34 PM
Yes there was the 102 wasn't there which followed the 24 (103 as it was back then) to Four Dwellings, then down Quinton Road West and West Boulevard.
Replaced then with the 10, and off peak 110 which extended up Quinton Road West and on to Blackheath via Quinton Road West and Olive Lane Estate.
It sure is a shame to see the 10/10H/10S as it is now.
Not Quite, the 102 ran as the 10 route to Court Oak, then as 103 (the 24 now) to Four Dwellings then via Quinton Road West to West Boulevard
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 26, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
I seem to remember TWM doing everything in their power to keep the 10 running. Shame to see it the way it is now
The issue with the 10 was that the busy Quinton Road West to Court Oak section seemed to subsidise the remainder of the route, and when the then 103 was extended to cover Simmons Drive and Quinton Road West, it covered much of the busy section of the 10 route.
It also served some affluent areas - most people around there must use the car these days.
There was then the bizarre rerouting of it in Edgbaston via Chad Road and Hagley Road to Five Ways, for no other reason than to compete with the City Buslines 3 and 20 routes. The route declined thereafter.
It is a shame, because it was a historic route and a pleasant journey.
Quote from: Mike K on June 26, 2018, 08:03:18 PM
The issue with the 10 was that the busy Quinton Road West to Court Oak section seemed to subsidise the remainder of the route, and when the then 103 was extended to cover Simmons Drive and Quinton Road West, it covered much of the busy section of the 10 route.
It also served some affluent areas - most people around there must use the car these days.
There was then the bizarre rerouting of it in Edgbaston via Chad Road and Hagley Road to Five Ways, for no other reason than to compete with the City Buslines 3 and 20 routes. The route declined thereafter.
It is a shame, because it was a historic route and a pleasant journey.
Yes, the 10 was a very useful route and I much preferred catching it to the 103 when I lived in Harborne. It used to carry healthy loads in the peaks and did carry a fair few passengers in the more affluent areas like Augustus Road. I personally think it could work if it was curtailed to run to the Town hall then extended the other direction via West Boulevard to Barnes Hill Asda. It could even go further and run as a fast direct bus to Northfield on the main road. A 30 minutes frequency would only require 3 vehicles on such a route as it could be done in 45 minutes one way. I did send this recommendation in as part of the consultation but it was no doubt not even considered as feasible.
Quote from: j789 on June 26, 2018, 08:15:30 PM
Yes, the 10 was a very useful route and I much preferred catching it to the 103 when I lived in Harborne. It used to carry healthy loads in the peaks and did carry a fair few passengers in the more affluent areas like Augustus Road. I personally think it could work if it was curtailed to run to the Town hall then extended the other direction via West Boulevard to Barnes Hill Asda. It could even go further and run as a fast direct bus to Northfield on the main road. A 30 minutes frequency would only require 3 vehicles on such a route as it could be done in 45 minutes one way. I did send this recommendation in as part of the consultation but it was no doubt not even considered as feasible.
A major flaw in your recommendation was that you didn't have it going via the University and QE Hospital ;)
Where did the 103 used to terminate as I've only ever known it do the full loop. I vaguely remember seeing a 103A at one point but not sure what the difference was between the two.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 26, 2018, 11:34:46 PM
Where did the 103 used to terminate as I've only ever known it do the full loop. I vaguely remember seeing a 103A at one point but not sure what the difference was between the two.
It used to terminate on Simmons Drive, at the junction with Middle Leasow - there's a bus lay-by there. It followed the current route via Dwellings Lane and Highfield Lane, then it turned left onto Simmons Drive (instead of right as it does now). It then returned via Simmons Drive, left onto Quinton Road West and return of outward route.
Was the 103A an evening variant that didn't do the whole 'CentreLink' city loop, i.e. it went the same route as other Harborne services for a short time? My memory fails me.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 26, 2018, 11:34:46 PM
Where did the 103 used to terminate as I've only ever known it do the full loop. I vaguely remember seeing a 103A at one point but not sure what the difference was between the two.
I do remember 103A used to go directly to Colmore Row instead of markets and it was in 2007 Boxing day.
8A/8C should be split into multiple segments and each segment would overlap with other segment in some way. I found myself and & others not using it despite it being most the direct route for some places I visit due its unreliability.
Some less used sections could be left without a service and some existing bus routes close to 8A/8C could have their frequencies increased and their routes modified to cover the some sections of the 8A/8C route.
Using East Birmingham as example - starting from North East to South East:
New bus route: Star City - Alum Rock - Heartlands Hospital. Perhaps the terminus at Star city could be extended to Aston or Perry Barr?
Using existing bus route, 28: Fox & Goose - Heartlands Hospital - Small Heath (Coventry Road instead of Waverley Road) - Joseph Chamberlain College.
I don't know about other sections of 8A/8C route enough to come up with solutions, perhaps somebody here could weigh in?
Quote from: :D on June 27, 2018, 01:09:06 PM
8A/8C should be split into multiple segments and each segment would overlap with other segment in some way. I found myself and & others not using it despite it being most the direct route for some places I visit due its unreliability.
Some less used sections could be left without a service and some existing bus routes close to 8A/8C could have their frequencies increased and their routes modified to cover the some sections of the 8A/8C route.
Using East Birmingham as example - starting from North East to South East:
New bus route: Star City - Alum Rock - Heartlands Hospital. Perhaps the terminus at Star city could be extended to Aston or Perry Barr?
Using existing bus route, 28: Fox & Goose - Heartlands Hospital - Small Heath (Coventry Road instead of Waverley Road) - Joseph Chamberlain College.
I don't know about other sections of 8A/8C route enough to come up with solutions, perhaps somebody here could weigh in?
It's an idea I've toyed with over the years I think there's mileage in something like that. With potentially routes running from the city centre / markets via parts of the inner circle out to Heartlands hospital, or the QE. Could even incorporate some of the local routes in the inner city area like the 46 and the 101. End to end routes far better for time keeping than a circle
I'd similarly like to see some routes extend that little bit beyond the current city centre. The Big City Plan or whatever its called was to expand what is considered "city centre" to include near as damn it everything within the Ring Road, it makes a lot of sense to me to have bus routes that reflect this, say coming in from the Five Ways area across the current city centre to terminate around Aston Uni
Where would you have the routes from the northside of the city terminate?
Walsall tried extending the 951 down to the markets but had to abandon it due to traffic congestion.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 26, 2018, 01:18:02 PM
Unfortunately I do think the 10H has slightly lost its way now since it has been altered and adjusted to plug the gaps left in the 8A, 8C and 647. It now takes nearly an hour to get from Quinton to the City Centre and where I would have chose to get the 10H rather than the 24 before into Birmingham, I definitely would avoid it now.
Yeah, I sampled that route last year they should have withdrew it or merge with 38. I thought about the former 8A/C part but that area is mainly accommodation for BCU students I doubt it would be any use for them.
I saw a current route map of the 27 and despite the upcoming changes, was there ever a circular route ever considered or done from the Hawkesley to Maypole termini?
Quote from: OH25 on July 07, 2018, 11:52:15 PM
I saw a current route map of the 27 and despite the upcoming changes, was there ever a circular route ever considered or done from the Hawkesley to Maypole termini?
The 27 was a circular route from 1990 to 1994 although it continued from Hawkesley to Kings Heath via Monyhull Road and the Dawberry Fields estate rather than onto the Maypole. It was numbered A/C with some shorter evening and late night journeys showing 27AE/CE on occasion. It was replaced by an extension of the 35 until the 27 returned in late 2003.
Quote from: Alex on November 15, 2014, 06:30:12 PM
Title says it all, really
Money or patronage is no issue here as it's just for fun, so have at it :)
For me i'd have to say NXWM Platinum busses every 15 minutes between Stafford and Cannock, then between Cannock and Walsall. There's more chance of Donald Trump becoming the king of England.
Quote from: l.murphy123 on July 08, 2018, 11:24:18 PM
For me i'd have to say NXWM Platinum busses every 15 minutes between Stafford and Cannock, then between Cannock and Walsall. There's more chance of Donald Trump becoming the king of England.
There's one that got me when Arriva launched the 1/2 as Sapphire. My thought would have been leave the 2 as the local round the houses bus at the lower frequency and the 1 Sapphire every 15 to Huntington, with every other bus (every half hour) beyond to Stafford taking over the 74
Quote from: SO6597 on July 08, 2018, 09:07:03 PM
The 27 was a circular route from 1990 to 1994 although it continued from Hawkesley to Kings Heath via Monyhull Road and the Dawberry Fields estate rather than onto the Maypole. It was numbered A/C with some shorter evening and late night journeys showing 27AE/CE on occasion. It was replaced by an extension of the 35 until the 27 returned in late 2003.
That must have looked odd seeing 27AE or 27CE.
The disadvantage the X routes have is not being able to show E to identify it as a short working. Saying that, is the E suffix necessary when the destinations are on the front and side blinds now.
Quote from: sonic84 on July 10, 2018, 06:39:21 PM
That must have looked odd seeing 27AE or 27CE.
The disadvantage the X routes have is not being able to show E to identify it as a short working. Saying that, is the E suffix necessary when the destinations are on the front and side blinds now.
But they do specifically say "short working" on the display, so an E on the number is kinda irrelevant now
I would still rather have a E on the number though. I know people don't pay attention to the blinds at the best of times but it stands out more than the short journey on the top line. Plenty of times on the X4 shorts I've had to kick people off in Sutton
Quote from: John on July 10, 2018, 09:11:13 PM
I would still rather have a E on the number though. I know people don't pay attention to the blinds at the best of times but it stands out more than the short journey on the top line. Plenty of times on the X4 shorts I've had to kick people off in Sutton
What specifically do 'A' 'E' and 'X' mean? What are their standard meanings? I know X is express.
Quote from: l.murphy123 on August 18, 2018, 12:17:53 AM
What specifically do 'A' 'E' and 'X' mean? What are their standard meanings? I know X is express.
E denotes a short working.
A used to kinda mean an extension to the route. For example, the old 581A which only used to run on Sundays, first by TWM then Diamond. Used to be the Dudley-Merry Hill extension.
Nower days, A pretty much just means a variation of the original route. For example, the new 2A, 12A, 13A.
Quote from: l.murphy123 on August 18, 2018, 12:17:53 AM
What specifically do 'A' 'E' and 'X' mean? What are their standard meanings? I know X is express.
When E was introduced by WMPTE it meant Exception (a short working). This replaced Birmingham's system where the closest turn round to downtown was A the next B and so on. For example on the 50 (city to Maypole) 50J was to Kings Heath only, and 50K was Alcester Lanes End.
A and C were used by WMPTE to signify anticlockwise and clockwise respectively.
With national express WM changing route numbers to be 1-99 only they are having to use A to signify a branch of a main service and X for limited stop services. The WMPTE system had unique numbers for all routes - 1-99 Birmingham, 100-299 ex Midland Red, 300-399 Walsall, 400-499 West Bromwich, 500-599 Wolverhampton, 800 series Schools and 900 series Limited Stop.
Quote from: busfan2847 on August 18, 2018, 02:14:39 AM
When E was introduced by WMPTE it meant Exception (a short working). This replaced Birmingham's system where the closest turn round to downtown was A the next B and so on. For example on the 50 (city to Maypole) 50J was to Kings Heath only, and 50K was Alcester Lanes End.
A and C were used by WMPTE to signify anticlockwise and clockwise respectively.
With national express WM changing route numbers to be 1-99 only they are having to use A to signify a branch of a main service and X for limited stop services. The WMPTE system had unique numbers for all routes - 1-99 Birmingham, 100-299 ex Midland Red, 300-399 Walsall, 400-499 West Bromwich, 500-599 Wolverhampton, 800 series Schools and 900 series Limited Stop.
I dunno if it was started under WMPTE, but the 6xx series also fit nicely into that series for various 'Mini-Link' routes, that often had minibuses on them when introduced, although later, routes that survived such as the 644 did look a bit out of place with their numbering. I remember that route using Solos and the ALX 200 Darts up until both of those were withdrawn.
Quote from: StourValley98 on August 18, 2018, 02:54:01 AM
I dunno if it was started under WMPTE, but the 6xx series also fit nicely into that series for various 'Mini-Link' routes, that often had minibuses on them when introduced, although later, routes that survived such as the 644 did look a bit out of place with their numbering. I remember that route using Solos and the ALX 200 Darts up until both of those were withdrawn.
I believe the 6xx minibus route numbering series was introduced post deregulation in the WMT era. I always thought it looked strange seeing a Mercedes 0405N on the 'minibus' numbered 636.
Quote from: Dom on August 18, 2018, 12:43:41 AM
E denotes a short working.
A used to kinda mean an extension to the route. For example, the old 581A which only used to run on Sundays, first by TWM then Diamond. Used to be the Dudley-Merry Hill extension.
Nower days, A pretty much just means a variation of the original route. For example, the new 2A, 12A, 13A.
Thank you :-) Arriva Cannock have the 2E which only does 2 evening journeys now... as does the 75A which surely should be 75E. Much prefer the NX numbering.
Quote from: l.murphy123 on August 18, 2018, 12:17:53 AM
What specifically do 'A' 'E' and 'X' mean? What are their standard meanings? I know X is express.
What about other letters still used today like there being a Diamond 4H (is there a meaning for the H) and then D&G have a 14W in Stoke (is 'W' used anywhere else as part of a route number and does that have any particular meaning?)
Quote from: PointerDart on August 18, 2018, 02:34:30 PM
What about other letters still used today like there being a Diamond 4H (is there a meaning for the H) and then D&G have a 14W in Stoke (is 'W' used anywhere else as part of a route number and does that have any particular meaning?)
H = Halesowen / Hayley Green
Quote from: Winston on August 18, 2018, 02:41:11 PM
H = Halesowen / Hayley Green
Ah that actually makes sense. Thanks, Winston.
Quote from: PointerDart on August 18, 2018, 02:34:30 PM
What about other letters still used today like there being a Diamond 4H (is there a meaning for the H) and then D&G have a 14W in Stoke (is 'W' used anywhere else as part of a route number and does that have any particular meaning?)
Diamond also operate a 16W, which is a variation of the 16 extended to
West Bromwich.
Quote from: Stu on August 18, 2018, 03:06:58 PM
Diamond also operate a 16W, which is a variation of the 16 extended to West Bromwich.
So in general the other letters can often denote where the extension goes?
Thanks for the info! :)
Quote from: PointerDart on August 18, 2018, 04:34:19 PM
So in general the other letters can often denote where the extension goes?
Thanks for the info! :)
Also the NX 4M which goes to Merry Hill
@PointerDart
Perhaps a display that's less so used these days, but there's also the 97P - for journeys terminating at Pine Square.
It'd reduce the frequency along part of the corridor, and along my local bit, but I think it'd be nice to see the WA11 diverted to serve Tipton Railway Station and Owen Street, similar to the old 311A. If I'm remembering correctly, it was removed due to the delays caused by the level crossing, which is now long gone, but I could be wrong. I think it'd make a good opportunity to allow a better interchange between bus and rail services.
Quote from: StourValley98 on November 18, 2018, 05:42:11 AM
It'd reduce the frequency along part of the corridor, and along my local bit, but I think it'd be nice to see the WA11 diverted to serve Tipton Railway Station and Owen Street, similar to the old 311A. If I'm remembering correctly, it was removed due to the delays caused by the level crossing, which is now long gone, but I could be wrong. I think it'd make a good opportunity to allow a better interchange between bus and rail services.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I've only been once up that way since it changed, but isn't Tipton rail station basically in a side street now?
If anything, the 11 would only serve Owen Street then follow the new road layout to Powis Avenue missing out station access, unless there's easy access?
What does the 42(?) do?
Quote from: Westy on November 18, 2018, 02:06:39 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I've only been once up that way since it changed, but isn't Tipton rail station basically in a side street now?
If anything, the 11 would only serve Owen Street then follow the new road layout to Powis Avenue missing out station access, unless there's easy access?
What does the 42(?) do?
The 42 accesses the station from the West Bromwich direction by turning right at the top of Locarno Road, and then looping around the car park entrance, before heading either back towards West Bromwich or onwards to Dudley. Presumably, instead of turning right at the top of Powis Avenue at the lights, it could carry straight on up Locarno Road and join the 42 route into the station, and then through Owen Street before rejoining the 11A.
(https://i.imgur.com/PEsImhS.png)
Quote from: StourValley98 on November 18, 2018, 02:29:22 PM
The 42 accesses the station from the West Bromwich direction by turning right at the top of Locarno Road, and then looping around the car park entrance, before heading either back towards West Bromwich or onwards to Dudley. Presumably, instead of turning right at the top of Powis Avenue at the lights, it could carry straight on up Locarno Road and join the 42 route into the station, and then through Owen Street before rejoining the 11A.
(https://i.imgur.com/PEsImhS.png)
I see, but I'd be surprised if it served the station loop, as they took the Wednesbury Parkway section off a few years back due to reliability.
(Excuse me while I laugh uncontrollably, due to the irony of the last sentence!)
Something I've thought about for a while..
In regards to Diamond's 16W service, I would renumber it to the 76. I had thought about the "76" terminating at Old Square, but whether it would or not would be another issue for later discussion..
So why the number 76? Much less of a mouthful to say than 16W. It's a free number - or, rather, one that only occurs one time on the entire network; in South Birmingham & Solihull. West Bromwich, the 16W's final destination, is typically associated with route numbers in the seventies (and eighties); the 74 & 79 (and even the 75 & 78 at one point in time).
The only backfire I'd see to this would be people expecting it to go down the Soho Road, despite sharing the exact same route as the normal 16 up to the 16's terminus - and then beyond... Much less logistics involved (I'd assume); it's just as simple as a route number change.
Thoughts? ???
Quote from: CL on December 25, 2018, 08:06:40 PM
Something I've thought about for a while..
In regards to Diamond's 16W service, I would renumber it to the 76. I had thought about the "76" terminating at Old Square, but whether it would or not would be another issue for later discussion..
So why the number 76? Much less of a mouthful to say than 16W. It's a free number - or, rather, one that only occurs one time on the entire network; in South Birmingham & Solihull. West Bromwich, the 16W's final destination, is typically associated with route numbers in the seventies (and eighties); the 74 & 79 (and even the 75 & 78 at one point in time).
The only backfire I'd see to this would be people expecting it to go down the Soho Road, despite sharing the exact same route as the normal 16 up to the 16's terminus - and then beyond... Much less logistics involved (I'd assume); it's just as simple as a route number change.
Thoughts? ???
I like the sound of it, but I think it'd be better to keep the 16 and 16W numbers the same, surely changing the 16W to the 16A would serve the same purpose of making it easier to say?
Quote from: StourValley98 on December 25, 2018, 08:26:38 PM
I like the sound of it, but I think it'd be better to keep the 16 and 16W numbers the same, surely changing the 16W to the 16A would serve the same purpose of making it easier to say?
Only problem is the 16A already exits, one very late night journey at 00:00 from the Markets to Great Barr and a very early morning 04:26 journey from Great Barr to the Markets.
https://nxbus.co.uk/routes/west-midlands/B016A/?timetable[day]=&tab=
15 would be free though?
Or maybe the one journey a day 16A, could be renumbered 16B?
Quote from: StourValley98 on December 25, 2018, 08:26:38 PM
I like the sound of it, but I think it'd be better to keep the 16 and 16W numbers the same, surely changing the 16W to the 16A would serve the same purpose of making it easier to say?
I suppose so. I'm guessing we're judging how easy it is to say a number based on the number of syllables it contains? :P Putting things into perspective, what's in one syllable (between the 16A and 16W)? ???
Quote from: 2206 on December 25, 2018, 08:29:02 PM
Only problem is the 16A already exits, one very late night journey at 00:00 from the Markets to Great Barr and a very early morning 04:26 journey from Great Barr to the Markets.
https://nxbus.co.uk/routes/west-midlands/B016A/?timetable[day]=&tab=
15 would be free though?
Or maybe the one journey a day 16A, could be renumbered 16B?
For someone who's taken the liberty to ask me "why does it matter what the number is?" through a PM, you seem pretty invested in alternative numbers, yourself. ::)
To answer your questions, it
doesn't matter what the number is. I only suggested it,
in a topic for wishful thinking, to generate a bit of discussion, at least. I understand that it's likely my thoughts wouldn't come into fruition; hence why I posted it here, and not in, say, the Diamond thread.
It would make no difference whatsoever if it were numbered 15, or 76, frankly. I decided against using 15 as an example, as (to me) it sounds pretty daft to have a smaller number go further than a larger one. I'm sure, in reality, there are plenty examples to undermine my previous statement - however, take the Dudley Road, for example: the 82 & 87 are prime examples of what I'm trying to say - regardless of its destination, wouldn't it seem silly if the 82 were to go beyond the 87?
(Cue the irony where the 87 goes beyond the 89)
As I mention before, I see viability in using the 76 route number - as it associates itself with the other seventies route at the West Bromwich end of things. You've agreed with me there. Perhaps there
is more sense in using 15.. After all, [16W] shares most of its route with the 16, anyway. But beyond Hamstead, the 15 would just become another stray number; an outlier, if you will, amongst the West Bromwich services - numbered in the 40s, and (as previously mentioned) the 70s. Even the single digit services have some structure to them, with the 3/3A, the 4/4H/4M, and the 5. Hence why I didn't use the 15.
Needless to say, it shares the same route as the 16 & 74 between Hockley and the City Centre. Seeing as it's being blown out of proportion, perhaps keeping the 16W the way it is is the way to go. At least the suffix makes sense. Alas, the purpose of this topic has died.
To quote the original poster:
Quote from: Alex on November 15, 2014, 06:30:12 PM
Title says it all, really
Money or patronage is no issue here as it's just for fun, so have at it :)
...
The route is numbered 16W as it carries on to (W)est Brom. Hence the W after 16 as it follows the normal 16 route then onto West Brom.
Quote from: Martin on December 26, 2018, 12:05:45 AM
The route is numbered 16W as it carries on to (W)est Brom. Hence the W after 16 as it follows the normal 16 route then onto West Brom.
Yes, so I gathered. :) Taking after Walsall's 4 services, it seems - with the 4H to (H)ayley Green, and the 4M to (M)erry Hill. My original post was simply further simplification.
There was a short spout when suffixes could indicate the final destination, or the route of a service. A few years back there were the 97P, which terminated at Pine Square in/near Chelmsley Wood. Can't think of any other examples from the top of my head.
Quote from: CL on December 26, 2018, 12:13:46 AM
Yes, so I gathered. :) Taking after Walsall's 4 services, it seems - with the 4H to (H)ayley Green, and the 4M to (M)erry Hill. My original post was simply further simplification.
There was a short spout when suffixes could indicate the final destination, or the route of a service. A few years back there were the 97P, which terminated at Pine Square in/near Chelmsley Wood. Can't think of any other examples from the top of my head.
97
A for Airport
Quote from: Sh4318 on December 26, 2018, 03:13:35 AM
97A for Airport
On account of what's been said, I'd have thought the 97A is an oddity of an example. Sure, the 'A' dictates the service continuing until the Airport - I can't deny that. However, I would also argue that the 'A' suffix is used as the "go-to" for any and all '
alternative' journeys, hence the 'A'.
By no means would I invalidate your example, but I wouldn't bank on it being an 'A' for Airport. (Even though, essentially, it is) ;)
Similarly, another example that's sprung to mind is iGo's 10H service. And though it doesn't indicate the final destination, it does signify the route that it takes: via
Harborne
... And then the even more recent 10S to Selly Oak.
Quote from: CL on December 26, 2018, 12:23:02 PM
On account of what's been said, I'd have thought the 97A is an oddity of an example. Sure, the 'A' dictates the service continuing until the Airport - I can't deny that. However, I would also argue that the 'A' suffix is used as the "go-to" for any and all 'alternative' journeys, hence the 'A'.
By no means would I invalidate your example, but I wouldn't bank on it being an 'A' for Airport. (Even though, essentially, it is) ;)
There was a time when the 97's only displayed "97A" on outbound journeys to the Airport, on ibounnd jounreys from the Airport to Birmingham they all displayed 97
@CL..
4170 and 4172 in these pics are heading into Birmingham displaying 97 -
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128470593@N05/30343430361/in/album-72157668996893343/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128470593@N05/32655338430/in/album-72157668996893343/
Similar to how the "97P" was only used on Short Journeys" towards Chelmsley Wood Interchange "Pine Square"
Quote from: 2206 on December 26, 2018, 12:26:52 PM
There was a time when the 97's only displayed "97A" on outbound journeys to the Airport, on ibounnd jounreys from the Airport to Birmingham they all displayed 97 @CL.
Fair play.
I don't think there's any need to change the 16W, at the end of the day it's now all about a simple numbering system, the 74 is the only number associated with West Brom now in the 70's and 16W keeps that corridor as 16's. I could even imagine an eventual return of the 16A proper, straight up Old Walsall Road to Scott Arms
Talking to a friend in the pub in Sutton the other night, we were debating the merits of extending either the 65 or 7 beyond Perry Common up to Boldmere and Sutton. Mostly settled on the 65 because it could fit in with the 66 at the northern end and be more beneficial to residents of Short Heath and Stockland Green. Perhaps even replace the 66 and have it terminate at New Oscott instead
Quote from: Kevin on December 26, 2018, 01:46:08 PM
I don't think there's any need to change the 16W, at the end of the day it's now all about a simple numbering system, the 74 is the only number associated with West Brom now in the 70's and 16W keeps that corridor as 16's. I could even imagine an eventual return of the 16A proper, straight up Old Walsall Road to Scott Arms
...
Agreed, there's no real need in renumbering; I had just put it out there as a suggestion. In addition to the 74, the 79 still serves (and so one would assume it's still associated with) West Bromwich. ;) But the point still stands.
Can't comment on the 16A being reinstated full time. Admittedly, I only ever use the 16 (and its variables) from City up until Hockley only. :P
Quote from: CL on December 26, 2018, 12:23:02 PM
Similarly, another example that's sprung to mind is iGo's 10H service. And though it doesn't indicate the final destination, it does signify the route that it takes: via Harborne
... And then the even more recent 10S to Selly Oak.
I've just remembered there used to be the 2L in Kidderminster operated by Diamond as well - the L indicating it went to Ludlow.
That route changed back to 292 and also changed to a different operator R&B Travel of Clee Hill if I'm right.
Evenings and Sundays: 28 extends past Dyas Road to serve the whole route, I completely don't understand why it doesn't serve Perry Beeches on Scott Arms on the Evenings and Sundays, hilarious that the branding mentions these places, yet only serves these places Mon-Sat daytimes.
Quote from: Jack on January 30, 2019, 07:35:55 PM
Evenings and Sundays: 28 extends past Dyas Road to serve the whole route, I completely don't understand why it doesn't serve Perry Beeches on Scott Arms on the Evenings and Sundays, hilarious that the branding mentions these places, yet only serves these places Mon-Sat daytimes.
No passenger demand?
Need more resources possibly making the whole route unviable?
Quote from: Tony on January 30, 2019, 08:04:51 PM
No passenger demand?
Need more resources possibly making the whole route unviable?
Would make more sense then that stupid Small Heath extension it does.
Quote from: Jack on January 30, 2019, 08:27:05 PM
Would make more sense then that stupid Small Heath extension it does.
Which is a tendered service otherwise it wouldn't run
Quote from: Tony on January 30, 2019, 08:30:29 PM
Which is a tendered service otherwise it wouldn't run
There must be some tenders that you wonder why they run.
The one by me on Arriva 2 diverts from Bloxwich High St down Somerfield Rd then turns left onto Leamore Lane, to rejoin Bloxwich High St.
While there is bus stops on Somerfield Rd, there are no stops on the Leamore Lane section, so the last stop is Addenbrooke Street, then the next one is Broadstone Avenue & locals know the distance between the 2!
It should turn right at Kfc & go via Beechdale instead.
Quote from: Westy on January 31, 2019, 04:40:40 PM
There must be some tenders that you wonder why they run.
The one by me on Arriva 2 diverts from Bloxwich High St down Somerfield Rd then turns left onto Leamore Lane, to rejoin Bloxwich High St.
While there is bus stops on Somerfield Rd, there are no stops on the Leamore Lane section, so the last stop is Addenbrooke Street, then the next one is Broadstone Avenue & locals know the distance between the 2!
It should turn right at Kfc & go via Beechdale instead.
Not many, but a few people do use this one - it basically does what the Diamond 28A does at other times.
Diamond 53 (Erdington to Smiths Wood via Stechford) - everytime I've seen this route its a practically empty Mellor Strata minibus. The most I ever see onboard is about 2 passengers, usually its completely empty. Peak hour trips seem paticularly empty.
Quote from: Westy on January 31, 2019, 04:40:40 PM
There must be some tenders that you wonder why they run.
The one by me on Arriva 2 diverts from Bloxwich High St down Somerfield Rd then turns left onto Leamore Lane, to rejoin Bloxwich High St.
While there is bus stops on Somerfield Rd, there are no stops on the Leamore Lane section, so the last stop is Addenbrooke Street, then the next one is Broadstone Avenue & locals know the distance between the 2!
It should turn right at Kfc & go via Beechdale instead.
But on the opposite you have the four crosses but there. Not bus stop sign
Quote from: I love Walsall buses on January 31, 2019, 10:52:35 PM
But on the opposite you have the four crosses but there. Not bus stop sign
The Four Crosses ain't been there for ages!
It's the KFC & a vets!
Quote from: Westy on February 01, 2019, 06:10:48 PM
The Four Crosses ain't been there for ages!
It's the KFC & a vets!
Been in there today to bloxwich after school and it announced "the four crosses" but it doesn't when it goes back to walsall
Quote from: I love Walsall buses on February 01, 2019, 10:17:54 PM
Been in there today to bloxwich after school and it announced "the four crosses" but it doesn't when it goes back to walsall
It is Arriva.
What do you expect?
Accuracy?
And on the subject of 'accuracy', whoever does the video displays for NX's Walsall Platties, it's Addenbrooke Street, with an extra e!
Speaking as a local!
Merge both 46 services. West Brom upto Pheasey then across to Perry Barr to City Centre.
Quote from: Ginger66 on February 06, 2019, 07:49:58 PM
Merge both 46 services. West Brom upto Pheasey then across to Perry Barr to City Centre.
Why would that be needed and who would use it?
I don't know that area to well, but it already seems well covered, Pheasey - Great Barr - West Brom is already covered by the 5, and Perry Barr - Great Barr 51, Perry Barr - Pheasey 934, West Brom - City Centre (via Handsworth) - frequent 74 and Handsworth - Perry Barr - 11C.
And how would you merge a every 15 minute route with one that runs every 20 minutes.
Quote from: Tony on January 30, 2019, 08:04:51 PM
No passenger demand?
Need more resources possibly making the whole route unviable?
Of course there's demand for it, but what am I to know having only lived there 30 years....
I have no idea how Livery Street coped with an excess of ten services running along it at one point, let alone three. I've already submitted a suggestion to National Express, but I thought it was worth sharing here, anyhow.
Just a bit of context; I'd be waiting for a bus in the afternoon peak. As you may have seen in my forum signature, the 101 is one of my local services. Often, it is my first port of call as a means to get home. Granted, I could catch the 16 or 74, but they're often overcrowded - and it's a slightly longer walk to my front door. Overall, the 101 is a little more convenient for me. I've no issues with the 101, however. This is more of a gripe with the placement of the bus stop. Admittedly, I was irked when I found out the 101 would be moving back to Livery Street. I felt as if we've gone full circle, with the Harbornes back at SH1, the Hagley Road on SH2, and what have you.. Nevertheless, it is what it is.
My problem is not so much the 101 moving back to Livery Street, though it may seem that way. My problem lies with Livery Street in the afternoon peak. The slow moving traffic has a knock on effect to those who wait for the buses. I'm not asking for buses to fly, but when there's people waiting for a bus from around the corner, it gets a little tedious. I can't fathom how anyone thought it'd be a good idea to have the 7 & 101 serve the same stop; arguably the two most busiest services of the three.
I'll cut to the chase.
I've put in a suggestion, or two rather, for the 7 to serve the same stop as the 46. Though it won't help with the overcrowding issue on Livery Street, it should help to distribute people more evenly along the street, in theory. My second suggestion would be the move the 7 & 46 to Steelhouse Lane, altogether. Missing out Livery Street and vacating SH6. In moving the 7 & 46 to Steelhouse Lane, it becomes a win-win for all - as you won't have three busloads of passengers crammed onto the narrow pavement on Livery Street. I'm not on the 7 or 46 much, but I see it enough to not see bunching on the route - so that shouldn't be an issue. Also, with Steelhouse Lane being a lay-by stop, the buses ought to keep out of passing traffic's way.
Of course, I won't deny the initial grumble of some people if anything comes out of it. But that's it for this suggestion. *waits to get shot down by keyboard warriors*
Re 7&46 I think most people work around livery st so ideal for them
I have to say I expected something else to replace the 23/24 at Steelhouse Lane. So I'm quite surprised nothing has. It's a good place for a terminus really, unless you get 4 or more parked up at a time.
If the X7 is due to be withdrawn, instead of just upping the frequency of the X8 between Wolves and Dudley, what I would do, is increase the frequency of the whole route to every 30 minutes on Sundays, then I would replace the 126 with the new X6 between Birmingham and Wolverhampton via the 126 route (limited stop between Birmingham and Quinton/Wolverhampton Road) at the same frequency as the X8.
Then, increase the 9 to every 15 minutes on Sundays, giving Birmingham to Quinton an every 7/8 minute frequency to Birmingham on Sundays (15 minutes from the Stag, and 15 minutes all stops - via the 9)
My life will be complete when the Timesaver branding, and the blue paint, is brought back...
Before anybody jumps down my throat, I'm not saying this is possible or would definitely work, just my 2p. I'd extend the X21 to Shenley Fields to perhaps help with some of the issues regarding no direct bus to City from there anymore. Terminating at Shenley Gardens where it can easily turn back on itself and take the same route as shown in the picture.
Perhaps the 326 could go on a one way loop in Bloxwich, to avoid the queue at the Bell Lane lights?
Into Bloxwich via Elmore Green Road, turn left at the police station onto High St, then left into Wolverhampton Rd, then as outward route.
Which bus stop would it wait time at when on time
Extend the WN10 from Perton to Telford to cover the old Arriva route.
X51 on Sundays to Cannock. Also perhaps a single late journey to Cannock and back during the week or on a Friday/Saturday night... about 10 or 11pm sort of time. Gives people the option to travel back from a night out or late night out somewhere via bus. Probably wouldn't be well used though as there aren't many connections from Cannock except Friday / Saturday nights you can travel later to Burntwood, Lichfield and Stafford.
A couple of changes I've often thought about are amending the 13/13A/13B
At present all services run from Warley into the city via Portland Road. I would amend the 13A and 13B so they follow the 12 from Bearwood into the city providing a more direct route into the city centre. (Similar to the old 258)
In turn I would then amend the 80A so that it follows Portland Road into the city maintaining the 10 minute stretch along that section of route.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 13, 2019, 06:04:27 PM
A couple of changes I've often thought about are amending the 13/13A/13B
At present all services run from Warley into the city via Portland Road. I would amend the 13A and 13B so they follow the 12 from Bearwood into the city providing a more direct route into the city centre. (Similar to the old 258)
In turn I would then amend the 80A so that it follows Portland Road into the city maintaining the 10 minute stretch along that section of route.
80/80A has looked fairly well used when I've seen it around Bath Row/Icknield Port Road, it'd lose passengers if it no longer serves City Hospital to Birmingham via Ladywood. Can't see that being popular with passengers around Five Ways/City Hospital and Icknield Port Road/Bath Row. Is another service along the Hagley Road and Broad Street really needed?
Quote from: 2206 on June 13, 2019, 06:10:13 PM
80/80A has looked fairly well used when I've seen it around Bath Row/Icknield Port Road, it'd lose passengers if it no longer serves City Hospital to Birmingham via Ladywood. Can't see that being popular with passengers around Five Ways/City Hospital and Icknield Port Road/Bath Row. Is another service along the Hagley Road and Broad Street really needed?
The 80/80A don't serve City Hospital... the only part of Dudley Road they serve is outside Summerfield Park.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 13, 2019, 06:04:27 PM
A couple of changes I've often thought about are amending the 13/13A/13B
At present all services run from Warley into the city via Portland Road. I would amend the 13A and 13B so they follow the 12 from Bearwood into the city providing a more direct route into the city centre. (Similar to the old 258)
In turn I would then amend the 80A so that it follows Portland Road into the city maintaining the 10 minute stretch along that section of route.
You say more direct. I've had it plenty of times where I've been behind a 12 at the turn onto City Road and I've beaten that bus to The Ivy Bush.
Quote from: Jack on June 14, 2019, 10:37:00 AM
The 80/80A don't serve City Hospital... the only part of Dudley Road they serve is outside Summerfield Park.
They don't go past it but, they go close to it.
Summerfield Park is a short walk from the City Hospital, one stop away from the City Hospital stop.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 13, 2019, 06:04:27 PM
A couple of changes I've often thought about are amending the 13/13A/13B
At present all services run from Warley into the city via Portland Road. I would amend the 13A and 13B so they follow the 12 from Bearwood into the city providing a more direct route into the city centre. (Similar to the old 258)
In turn I would then amend the 80A so that it follows Portland Road into the city maintaining the 10 minute stretch along that section of route.
Whenever I've used it, the Portland Road section of the route(s) is very well used. I'm not sure a 20 minute frequency would suffice. Not to mention you would be removing links to Bearwood that are pretty much set in stone
Few quick ideas
Up the WN82 to every 15 with alternate journeys following the 8 route in Wrens Nest and number it 21/21A.
Number the current 81 as #20
Replace the X8 Dudley shorts with a revised service 8 (so it'll run Stourbridge - Merry Hill - Dudley - Wolverhampton) so you'd have a X8 every 20 running limited stop Dudley to Wolverhampton and the 8 being the stopper.
Introduce a new service 20 which would consist of a merger of the Wollaston sections of the 7/8 as a circular (running every 20 each way)
Cut the 7 at Stourbridge and up it to every 15, with alternate journeys running along the 298 route into Lye as a 7A service via Oldswinford.
Cut the 14A/24 at Cradley Heath station, with passengers to change to newly re numbered 4/existing X10.
Withdraw the 4 shorts to Blackheath and put new DDs on the 4H/4 Merry Hill. Existing Scanias to replace 17xx Volvo's which could go to WN for the first two changes above.
One idea I've had is that the WA11 could possibly be diverted to serve Tipton Rail Station and Owen Street, sorta like the old 311A. If I recall correctly, the reason why the 311A was withdrawn was due to the delays at the level crossing, and the subsequent works to replace it with the tunnel under the rail line. I can't see there being any issue nowadays, other than the traffic at peak times along Sedgley Road, although you also have that issue on the current route into Princes End.
Always thought about this one...
Extend the current WN10 to Telford from Perton via Albrighton, Cosford & Shifnal. Frequency would be every 30 mins.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on June 23, 2019, 05:19:56 PM
Always thought about this one...
Extend the current WN10 to Telford from Perton via Albrighton, Cosford & Shifnal. Frequency would be every 30 mins.
Arriva tried that, and it wasn't viable. I find it unlikely NX can make it viable too.
Quote from: Nathan on June 23, 2019, 05:46:04 PM
Arriva tried that, and it wasn't viable. I find it unlikely NX can make it viable too.
Arriva did that because Telford garage took over the 10/10A/10B services from Wednesdield when it closed. NX could make it viable as Banga are withdrawing the Saturday service on the 891 which would leave Albrighton and Cosford with no service at all.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on June 24, 2019, 09:14:20 AM
Arriva did that because Telford garage took over the 10/10A/10B services from Wednesdield when it closed. NX could make it viable as Banga are withdrawing the Saturday service on the 891 which would leave Albrighton and Cosford with no service at all.r
But, as has been said many times before, Nx taking over 'everything' is not that straightforward!
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on June 24, 2019, 09:14:20 AM
Arriva did that because Telford garage took over the 10/10A/10B services from Wednesdield when it closed. NX could make it viable as Banga are withdrawing the Saturday service on the 891 which would leave Albrighton and Cosford with no service at all.
I can't see how nay Wolves to Telford service can compete against the train unless it was high frequency (like every 10 mins or so) and clearly that is unviable as there doesn't seem enough passengers to support the current irregular service so no chance with a higher frequency.
Quote from: j789 on June 24, 2019, 07:37:22 PM
I can't see how nay Wolves to Telford service can compete against the train unless it was high frequency (like every 10 mins or so) and clearly that is unviable as there doesn't seem enough passengers to support the current irregular service so no chance with a higher frequency.
Isnt there something in the paper about a development at Tong?
Quote from: Westy on June 24, 2019, 10:30:24 PM
Isnt there something in the paper about a development at Tong?
Yes, there's plans to develop 3000 houses there I think.
Quote from: j789 on June 24, 2019, 07:37:22 PM
I can't see how nay Wolves to Telford service can compete against the train unless it was high frequency (like every 10 mins or so) and clearly that is unviable as there doesn't seem enough passengers to support the current irregular service so no chance with a higher frequency.
But what about NX and the 54? If NX can sustain services to Stafford and compete with a regular train service then a Telford service could work. Places like Albrighton and Cosford have trains hourly and a half hourly bus service would possibly be more attractive?
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on June 25, 2019, 12:07:05 PM
Yes, there's plans to develop 3000 houses there I think.But what about NX and the 54? If NX can sustain services to Stafford and compete with a regular train service then a Telford service could work. Places like Albrighton and Cosford have trains hourly and a half hourly bus service would possibly be more attractive?
The 54 isn't yet sustainable without the subsidy of receives
Based on the 54, at best, you'd get an hourly service, Monday to Saturday peaks & daytime, interworked with another city route & Daysaver Plus validity.
Quote from: Westy on June 25, 2019, 09:54:21 PM
Based on the 54, at best, you'd get an hourly service, Monday to Saturday peaks & daytime, interworked with another city route & Daysaver Plus validity.
The 54 is mostly standalone....
Quote from: Nathan on June 25, 2019, 10:28:17 PM
The 54 is mostly standalone....
Is it?
I thought interworking with another route was one of the reasons it stayed on?
Shame they couldnt do something similar for the 154?
(Correct me if Im wrong, but the only Nx vehicles Cannock sees now are the X51 Platties. No red/white or Crimsons enter Cannock as a rule surely?)
Quote from: Westy on June 25, 2019, 10:51:13 PM
(Correct me if Im wrong, but the only Nx vehicles Cannock sees now are the X51 Platties. No red/white or Crimsons enter Cannock as a rule surely?)
Well there was a picture on Facebook of an X51 to Cannock on a 51 branded enviro.
One I've been thinking of recently....
Instead of having the WN15 & 16 serving Wombourne (which seems to take ages to get round!), have an additional service that follows a circular route round the town which covers the current route. The 15 and 16 would follow the route of the current 15a but the 16 would still serve Himley. Frequency could be every 30 mins.
I would Combine the WN 4 & 25 to form a Wolverhampton outer circle, however the 4 would not be withdrawn completely. The section between wolves and spring hill (or Wombourne) depending on what happens during the next few months would remain. There would be a 25A and 25C representing clockwise and anti-clockwise journeys. The route would run to a 15 minute frequency during the day. Volvo's would be the main allocation to the route.
If it were possible, I would combine the Stourbridge Circular buses (10A/C) with the 28, advertising through journeys on them to Merry Hill. (currently one bus an hour changes from 10 to 28 at Stourbridge but through journeys are not advertised)
Since NX took over the 10A/C, the buses I have seen have been virtually empty.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 12, 2019, 07:32:51 AM
Something surely has to be done with these routes at some point as they can't be viable as they are now. I agree with the integration with the 23 and 24 but I'd say the 10H rather than the 10 as it goes to Harborne anyway and could probably become a 25.
But either way these routes need disecting and covered elsewhere really.
I thought few options for 10 routes and I know I haven't thought this thorough but I'll throw out my own idea.
So route 10. If 23 & 24 branding get refreshed maybe it would be better to renumber 10 to 24A. I posted about this last year and I also wanted the route operated by NXWM and I am happy that it finally happened. Just like Sonic84 said, route should be busier under NXWM and I am slightly disappointed the turn out. However, the integration part I didn't thought about it. Also, I agree about reinstating to QRW but I'd let it follow 24 route and then back to QRW.
Route 10H. I was thinking to cut to the QEHB but extend it to Halesowen by following 19 route and the old 636, then the current route (Highfield Lane and Simmons Drive) and then back to 19 route. I do see E journeys to Halesowen perhaps it would be better to pass it on to that route including peak journeys. As for renumbering, 19A.
Route 10S. I was thinking to extend 22 (Bearwood - Oldbury) to Quinton Tesco (via last amended 443 route maybe) and interwork with 10S, and also maybe minor route changes.
I agree about the 10. I thought about that too and the possible 24A. It's only a peak service at the moment so it could easily change to a peak time only 24A.
I'd still replace the 10H with a 25 though. Which would follow the 24 out of City & Harborne but turn left at Quinton, West Boulevard to serve Weoley Castle and terminate at Shenley Fields. With the introduction of these two you could probably drop the 24 frequency a little bit and maybe have the 24/25 interworking.
Then either cut the 27 away from Harborne/Weoley Castle altogether or curtail it to Weoley Castle and have it serve Swathmore Road instead.
As for the 10S I'm not entirely sure.
I've been thinking of this some more and I agree with the integration of the 10 with the 24, possibly as the 24A.
The 10H and 10S are trickier. I also thought maybe it could be interwoeked with Diamonds 54 at Worlds End and extend to the QE every half an hour and lose the QE to Selly Oak / City sections of the route.
The alternative i have thought about is extending the 27 to Quinton from Harbone via the 10H route during off peak times although that section is definitely not busy enough to warrant a 20 minute frequency at the moment.
Either way from my experience with these services over the last 3/4 months I can only see them being cut further.
Quote from: sonic84 on July 23, 2019, 07:35:20 PM
The alternative i have thought about is extending the 27 to Quinton from Harbone via the 10H route during off peak times although that section is definitely not busy enough to warrant a 20 minute frequency at the moment.
Can't see any way that would work. The route is too long as it is.
As for not being busy enough it was perfectly fine when the 29 ran. I got it many times off-peak too and it was used reasonably well. People have stopped using buses simply as it's not an attractive proposition anymore having to change buses to get into City. Seen plenty of people online saying this.
In my opinion the 27 cannot carry on as it is for much longer. A route back into the City again would be useful rather than links to Maypole...
But alas I'm sure it'll just be further cuts as you say.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 23, 2019, 07:48:07 PM
Can't see any way that would work. The route is too long as it is.
As for not being busy enough it was perfectly fine when the 29 ran. I got it many times off-peak too and it was used reasonably well. People have stopped using buses simply as it's not an attractive proposition anymore having to change buses to get into City. Seen plenty of people online saying this.
In my opinion the 27 cannot carry on as it is for much longer. A route back into the City again would be useful rather than links to Maypole...
But alas I'm sure it'll just be further cuts as you say.
Could one of the X2* routes not be tweaked to accommodate parts of the 29 that no longer have a direct service to City?
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 23, 2019, 10:32:19 PM
Could one of the X2* routes not be tweaked to accommodate parts of the 29 that no longer have a direct service to City?
Well the only one out of the 3 that could would be the X21, and it's already been extended in Weoley Castle to serve Gregory Avenue to cover that section when it was introduced. I put a suggestion on here a while back:
Quote from: MasterPlan on May 21, 2019, 05:24:24 PM
Before anybody jumps down my throat, I'm not saying this is possible or would definitely work, just my 2p. I'd extend the X21 to Shenley Fields to perhaps help with some of the issues regarding no direct bus to City from there anymore. Terminating at Shenley Gardens where it can easily turn back on itself and take the same route as shown in the picture.
Can't seem to include the picture again but the idea is that it would at least give some of Shenley Lane a City bis again. Though even then it still leaves out Alwold Road, Barnes Hill and Harborne Park Road.
There's always been a discussion over viability of services to Essington in South Staffordshire so I'd modify one bus an hour on the NXWM WN59 to serve Essington village via Coppice Farm between 0900-1700.
59A would run as per normal line of route from Wolverhampton to complete the Ashmore Park circle then Peacock Avenue, left onto Lichfield Road, left on to Coppice Farm Way, left onto Essington Road, left onto Upper Sneyd Road onto High Hill, right onto Wolverhampton Road terminating at Essington Church.
Thoughts?
Merry hill to kiddiminster via Stourbridge
If I had a £1 for the amount of times I get asked about a bus from merry hill to kiddiminster
But what do I know I'm only a driver
Quote from: Wumpty on July 24, 2019, 12:19:39 PM
There's always been a discussion over viability of services to Essington in South Staffordshire so I'd modify one bus an hour on the NXWM WN59 to serve Essington village via Coppice Farm between 0900-1700.
59A would run as per normal line of route from Wolverhampton to complete the Ashmore Park circle then Peacock Avenue, left onto Lichfield Road, left on to Coppice Farm Way, left onto Essington Road, left onto Upper Sneyd Road onto High Hill, right onto Wolverhampton Road terminating at Essington Church.
Thoughts?
Is there no way of getting off Ashmore onto Blackhalve Lane?
Quote from: Westy on July 24, 2019, 01:48:50 PM
Is there no way of getting off Ashmore onto Blackhalve Lane?
From Ashmore Park, there a number of spur roads that feed off Griffiths Drive (the AP circle) onto Kitchen Lane which lead to Upper Sneyd Road, though this isn't suitable for buses for HGVs as it's narrow with very low hanging trees.
Blackhalve Lane is bus friendly but has no housing, only farms so wouldn't be as viable as my proposed route given the Coppice/Essington connection.
Quote from: Westy on July 24, 2019, 01:48:50 PM
Is there no way of getting off Ashmore onto Blackhalve Lane?
Linthouse Lane, right at Wood End Island onto Wood End Rd, right onto Blackhalve Lane.
Quote from: Nathan on July 24, 2019, 02:17:13 PM
Linthouse Lane, right at Wood End Island onto Wood End Rd, right onto Blackhalve Lane.
Good alternative serving part of the Wednesfield network but a bit of a jaunt around to Essington along the 50mph Blackhalve Lane. Mine would serve housing and reduce mileage.
Wouldn't a quicker way be the route of the 11 and then when that turns to underhill the bus goes right. You could number it 12
Quote from: Dutsey on July 25, 2019, 07:16:58 AM
Wouldn't a quicker way be the route of the 11 and then when that turns to underhill the bus goes right. You could number it 12
True, another good hourly extension. This would mean running the full length of Blackhalve Lane with no opportunity to pick up passengers. A 59A would also connect Essington with the first major town at Wednesfield and also with Bentley Bridge and New Cross Hospital.
That said, nothing wrong with a WN12 running as a full 11 to Underhill, left onto Cannock Road, immediate right onto Belton Avenue, left onto Blackhalve Lane to Essington Church then a reverse of my proposed 59A to city as a circular.
I would introduce a Telford to Cannock service via Shifnal, Stanton Rd, Tong Norton, Bishop's Wood, Brewood and Gailey. Frequency would be hourly and would be operated by E200 dart's.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on July 25, 2019, 02:33:24 PM
I would introduce a Telford to Cannock service via Shifnal, Stanton Rd, Tong Norton, Bishop's Wood, Brewood and Gailey. Frequency would be hourly and would be operated by E200 dart's.
I like the concept of semi-rural services (I'm sure Green Bus Services/Warstone Motors operated similar in the past), and believe there is a market if planned correctly.
Your idea would certainly follow an area lacking regular services, though the demand would need to be encouraged.
Not sure I'd go with E200s given some of the narrower roads - perhaps a slimline Solo would work?
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on July 25, 2019, 02:33:24 PM
I would introduce a Telford to Cannock service via Shifnal, Stanton Rd, Tong Norton, Bishop's Wood, Brewood and Gailey. Frequency would be hourly and would be operated by E200 dart's.
Great idea but I don't think it would be viable. Arriva did a number 12 between Cannock and Telford via Pye green, Penkridge, Wheaton Aston, Brewood, Coven & M54 on a Saturday only. However it got withdrawn after 6 months of service due to low usage
Quote from: BusMan Greg on July 28, 2019, 12:14:38 PM
Great idea but I don't think it would be viable. Arriva did a number 12 between Cannock and Telford via Pye green, Penkridge, Wheaton Aston, Brewood, Coven & M54 on a Saturday only. However it got withdrawn after 6 months of service due to low usage
If it only ran on a Saturday then it would have had low usage. I'm sure a service like this could work if it operated Monday-Saturday.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on July 28, 2019, 12:20:28 PM
If it only ran on a Saturday then it would have had low usage. I'm sure a service like this could work if it operated Monday-Saturday.
I would like to see a Cannock to Telford service Tbh
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on July 28, 2019, 12:20:28 PM
If it only ran on a Saturday then it would have had low usage. I'm sure a service like this could work if it operated Monday-Saturday.
Warstones Motors ran similar routes but on market/shopping days only, targeting specific shopping habits and it did very well.
Hi I am a new user on the forum and I want to discuss some changes that I would make to some NX routes, particularly the ex-igo ones.
10,10H,10S:
I would renumber the 10 to the 24A which would basically be the peak time version of the 24.
The 10H, I would renumber to the 25 and make it run between Birmingham and Quinton Road West. The 25 wouldn't serve Harborne or Q.E Hospital because there are better and quicker services to Birmingham than the current 10H. The 25 would keep its route between Birmingham and Ladywood but would then follow the current 10 route to Quinton via Westbourne Road and Augustus Road.
I would increase the frequency to every 30 minutes.
The 10S would be withdrawn and replaced by the 48 between Northfield and Q.E hospital Via Shenley Fields and Q.E Hospital.
36:
The 36 would be extended to Birmingham City Centre bit would be shortened to Acocks Green with an increased frequency to every 30 minutes. The only problem with this extension is the traffic in Bordesley green but it can bypass that by running through Coventry Road and turn into Cattell Road which would give it a service since forever.
Any comments on this would be nice.
Is a service actually needed along Augustus Road? Because the 10 doesn't seem very busy to me.
And how exactly would this rerouting of the alresdy-convoluted 48 work?
In regards to the 10, the reason it is not busy is because NX hasn't really advertised it to the public they just said that they were taking over some ex-igo routes.
By curtailing the 48 to northfield via Weoley Castle and Shenley Fields it can serve the roads that hasn't has a service since the 29 and 29A have been withdrawn.
Quote from: Busboy105 on July 30, 2019, 04:43:18 PM
In regards to the 10, the reason it is not busy is because NX hasn't really advertised it to the public they just said that they were taking over some ex-igo routes.
By curtailing the 48 to northfield via Weoley Castle and Shenley Fields it can serve the roads that hasn't has a service since the 29 and 29A have been withdrawn.
The 48 currently runs via Bournville, Cotteridge and Hawkesley between Selly Oak and Northfield? Not Weoley Castle and Shenley Fields? So you'd introduce a new service to cover this section?
Quote from: Busboy105 on July 30, 2019, 03:04:36 PM
36:
The 36 would be extended to Birmingham City Centre bit would be shortened to Acocks Green with an increased frequency to every 30 minutes. The only problem with this extension is the traffic in Bordesley green but it can bypass that by running through Coventry Road and turn into Cattell Road which would give it a service since forever.
Any comments on this would be nice.
So your suggesting extending it along the 97 route between Heartlands Hospital and City Centre?
For the 48, I would introduce a new route that will from Halesowen to Northfield. It will follow the 19 from Halesowen to Q.E hospital and the current 48 from Q.E hospital to Northfield. The 48 would still go to Northfield via Weoley Castle and Shenley Fields.
For the 36, I would extend it to Birmingham via 97 route but it might go through Cattell road to Coventry Road and follow the 17 and 60 route to city.
Quote from: Busboy105 on July 30, 2019, 05:14:16 PM
For the 48, I would introduce a new route that will from Halesowen to Northfield. It will follow the 19 from Halesowen to Q.E hospital and the current 48 from Q.E hospital to Northfield. The 48 would still go to Northfield via Weoley Castle and Shenley Fields.
That sounds bizzare. The 27 already does this pretty much.
Okay, then I would bring back the 62 and make it run between Birmingham and Northfield via Bristol Road to Selly Oak then go on the current 48 route to Northfield who would curtail the 48 to Weoley Castle or Shenley Fields.
P.S What was the last bus route to run through Cattell Road? I can't remember off the top of my head. Was it the old 13 that ran between City and Lea Hall Station
Quote from: Busboy105 on July 30, 2019, 05:54:16 PM
P.S What was the last bus route to run through Cattell Road? I can't remember off the top of my head. Was it the old 13 that ran between City and Lea Hall Station
13 ran via Green Lane and Yardley Green Road between 2007 - 2010. It then went through the Yew Tree. It was replaced by the 73, the 73 was later curtailed to Heartlands.
Nothing has gone down there in the last 13 years, though the 97 was diverted down there for a few months some years back on a long term diversion.
Quote from: Busboy105 on July 30, 2019, 05:54:16 PM
Okay, then I would bring back the 62 and make it run between Birmingham and Northfield via Bristol Road to Selly Oak then go on the current 48 route to Northfield who would curtail the 48 to Weoley Castle or Shenley Fields
So this 62 would get to Selly Oak then divert via the most long winded route possible to get to Northfield? Nobody would use that in all honesty.
You cannot curtail the 48 to Weoley Castle/Shenley Fields as it doesn't serve those areas.
It's practically impossible for the 48 to return to Weoley Castle because of the way it's been set up now. Only way for that to happen would be that the 27 goes back to it's original route but even then if you do all that the gaps left by the 29, 84 etc would have to be filled again.
Quote from: Busboy105 on July 30, 2019, 05:54:16 PM
P.S What was the last bus route to run through Cattell Road? I can't remember off the top of my head. Was it the old 13 that ran between City and Lea Hall Station
It was the 96 that went down Cattell Road to Cov Road,Brum to Pine Square before it was withdrawn
@Busboy105
I would extend certain peak journeys on the 50 to Wythall via Hollywood.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on July 31, 2019, 12:33:32 PM
I would extend certain peak journeys on the 50 to Wythall via Hollywood.
If they were withdrawn before due to lack of passengers, why would it work this time round?
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on July 31, 2019, 12:33:32 PM
I would extend certain peak journeys on the 50 to Wythall via Hollywood.
Wasn't the 50A withdrawn due to low usage?
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 31, 2019, 12:35:55 PM
Wasn't the 50A withdrawn due to low usage?
Quote from: John on July 31, 2019, 12:35:40 PM
If they were withdrawn before due to lack of passengers, why would it work this time round?
I had no idea that this service existed previously, hence why I suggested it.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on July 31, 2019, 12:46:24 PM
I had no idea that this service existed previously, hence why I suggested it.
I think the only way it could work if tried again is to have it as an all day extension. I do not think Bells lane needs a bus every 4 to 5 minutes so I would remove one 50 every 20 minutes from Bells Lane and aand make this go to Wythall. So as to avoid needing any extra vehicles, I'd send it straight down the Hollywood bypass from Maypole and then it could loop back through its former route through Wythall from Beckett's Island. I think this would prove commercially viable as there are a lot of housing there, including social housing, with a lot more planned to be built in the coming years. The train service is not great from there and the station is not that close to a lot of the village areas. Also, the current 150 only serves the main road so there wouldn't be much of an overlap with that service. I think it would be popular. Also, I think NXWM are missing a trick not having a school/college 49s service start from Wythall to go to Solihull as there are a lot of students there who go that route yet cannot get a NWM pass as they are in Worcestershire which increases the cost. Having a NXWM bus would allow them access to the term plus which I think would prove very popular in that area and open up a lot of new travellers to NXWM.
Quote from: j789 on July 31, 2019, 03:13:22 PM
I think the only way it could work if tried again is to have it as an all day extension. I do not think Bells lane needs a bus every 4 to 5 minutes so I would remove one 50 every 20 minutes from Bells Lane and aand make this go to Wythall. So as to avoid needing any extra vehicles, I'd send it straight down the Hollywood bypass from Maypole and then it could loop back through its former route through Wythall from Beckett's Island. I think this would prove commercially viable as there are a lot of housing there, including social housing, with a lot more planned to be built in the coming years. The train service is not great from there and the station is not that close to a lot of the village areas. Also, the current 150 only serves the main road so there wouldn't be much of an overlap with that service. I think it would be popular. Also, I think NXWM are missing a trick not having a school/college 49s service start from Wythall to go to Solihull as there are a lot of students there who go that route yet cannot get a NWM pass as they are in Worcestershire which increases the cost. Having a NXWM bus would allow them access to the term plus which I think would prove very popular in that area and open up a lot of new travellers to NXWM.
Wythall, Hollywood etc does actually come under the Network West Midlands zone; nBus & nNetwork tickets are valid
Quote from: Matt.N0056 on July 31, 2019, 03:25:32 PM
Wythall, Hollywood etc does actually come under the Network West Midlands zone; nBus & nNetwork tickets are valid
Argh I wasn't very clear, the main issue is 16-18 as Worcestershire addresses can't access the cheaper child tickets with the 16-18 card (as far as I'm aware) when they reach 16 unlike those living in the West Midlands. I still think a 49s service would be viable and the money on term tickets would all go to NXWM rather than NWM if NXWM would allow the college students to buy the term plus.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on July 31, 2019, 12:33:32 PM
I would extend certain peak journeys on the 50 to Wythall via Hollywood.
Just out of curiosity, on what basis are you making this suggestion?
Quote from: Stu on July 31, 2019, 07:00:04 PM
Just out of curiosity, on what basis are you making this suggestion?
Wythall and Hollywood only have 1 bus per hour to the city. Hollywood seems a fairly large area and seems to be poorly connected in terms of direct buses to the city centre.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on July 31, 2019, 07:49:28 PM
Wythall and Hollywood only have 1 bus per hour to the city. Hollywood seems a fairly large area and seems to be poorly connected in terms of direct buses to the city centre.
What you state may be factually true. But if you neither live in or have any association with those areas, on what basis do you know with any certainty that your suggestion would actually be viable?
I only say this as I can establish from your signature that you are from or near Wolverhampton, which is far from both Wythall and Hollywood.
Not wanting to put a damper on anyone who wants to make suggestions, but there's a lot more involved than simply looking at a map and thinking 'that'd be a nice bus route'.
As it happens, there did used to be a 50A peak time service to Wythall and Hollywood, which was - as pointed out already - withdrawn due to 'lack of use' (first by The Green Bus, then later by NXWM). It might be the case that people from those areas prefer to drive and park at Wythall train station to commute to/from Birmingham. There could be a whole number of reasons.
There are other bus services in the area, which connect to Solihull, which are not very well used either, and require subsidies to function as they are.
But unless you either live in or use bus services in those areas, and have undertaken surveys, it is difficult to establish whether any suggestion would actually be viable or not.
Quote from: Stu on July 31, 2019, 08:31:04 PM
What you state may be factually true. But if you neither live in or have any association with those areas, on what basis do you know with any certainty that your suggestion would actually be viable?
I only say this as I can establish from your signature that you are from or near Wolverhampton, which is far from both Wythall and Hollywood.
Not wanting to put a damper on anyone who wants to make suggestions, but there's a lot more involved than simply looking at a map and thinking 'that'd be a nice bus route'.
As it happens, there did used to be a 50A peak time service to Wythall and Hollywood, which was - as pointed out already - withdrawn due to 'lack of use' (first by The Green Bus, then later by NXWM). It might be the case that people from those areas prefer to drive and park at Wythall train station to commute to/from Birmingham. There could be a whole number of reasons.
There are other bus services in the area, which connect to Solihull, which are not very well used either, and require subsidies to function as they are.
But unless you either live in or use bus services in those areas, and have undertaken surveys, it is difficult to establish whether any suggestion would actually be viable or not.
Fair enough, I agree with you there. However, the first post on this forum states that "money or patronage is no issue here as its just for fun". That's all I'm doing here, only suggesting routes for fun, as are most people in this thread. I think that some members have misunderstood the purpose of this thread and 'criticise' the ideas of other members and take things too seriously. Its just for fun!
The Diamond 53 service (Erdington-Smiths Wood) is a dying route. Diamond have already reduced the frequency to every hour and barely any passengers use the route. So this is what I would do:
Split the 53 into two services. I would either cut the 53 to serve between Erdington and Heartlands Hospital or reroute the 28A to replace the 53 between Heartlands Hospital and Erdington and renumber it 26.
Then I would introduce a new service 56 that will run between Birmingham and Smiths Wood via Saltley, Ward End, Glebe Farm and Shard End. The 56 will serve Drew's Lane again and it will come up the Bromford Lane to Ward End then down the Stechford Lane to Iron Lane then follow the 14 route to Glebe Farm and the rest of the 53 route to Smiths Wood.
I think that these changes replace the 53 well. The only section that wouldn't be served is the Heartlands Hospital to Glebe Farm section.
^^^ I like that
I'd split the WN1 into two routes - Dudley - Bilston Street (Wolverhampton) run by Pensnett and Bilston Street to Tettenhall Wood run by Park Lane - reliability is often shocking, especially as there are around 6 schools plus Wolves college up the Tettenhall Road - usually full of school kids from Wolves art gallery!
Quote from: nathanielrwi on August 03, 2019, 02:13:11 AM
I'd split the WN1 into two routes - Dudley - Bilston Street (Wolverhampton) run by Pensnett and Bilston Street to Tettenhall Wood run by Park Lane - reliability is often shocking, especially as there are around 6 schools plus Wolves college up the Tettenhall Road - usually full of school kids from Wolves art gallery!
They did that before the Wolverhampton network changes a few hears back. Was known as the 501. However, I do agree with you and it's annoying when the school kids on the Tettenhall Road push and shove onto the buses.
Quote from: nathanielrwi on August 03, 2019, 02:13:11 AM
I'd split the WN1 into two routes - Dudley - Bilston Street (Wolverhampton) run by Pensnett and Bilston Street to Tettenhall Wood run by Park Lane - reliability is often shocking, especially as there are around 6 schools plus Wolves college up the Tettenhall Road - usually full of school kids from Wolves art gallery!
Why would you run the latter from Pensnett. The Dudley to Wolverhampton section was run from Park Lane as the 558, so if they split it... it'd probably be WN operating both sides.
I'd withdraw the 113 service between Telford and Bridgnorth but up the frequency on the 114 to run every 2 hours Monday to Saturday.
I'd reintroduce the 450 service (numbered 50?) to run from Bearwood Bus Station to West Brom, I don't know why this service was messed around with and then dropped as it was always busy, especially on Saturdays. Matchdays, it could go along Dartmouth Road like the 89 does. I know you have the 80 also going to West Brom, but Bearwood doesn't really have a straightforward link to West Brom these days.
I'd also reintroduce the 444, (numbered 51?) and run it down Manor Road like the 46 used to, to the island at Hales Lane, then up Hales Lane and it's old route to Norman Road, then up Alexander Road, Abbey Road, Barclay Road, Upper St Mary's Road, then onto Bearwood Road and the bus station. Run it every half hour until 7pm Monday to Sunday. I live on the 89 route and on Sundays because Diamond's 21 doesn't run, we have no service to Bearwood or Oldbury, a reintroduced 444 would give us links back to Bearwood, Warley, Oldbury and a increased link to West Brom.
Quote from: PinkBus on August 04, 2019, 09:47:20 AM
I'd reintroduce the 450 service (numbered 50?) to run from Bearwood Bus Station to West Brom, I don't know why this service was messed around with and then dropped as it was always busy, especially on Saturdays. Matchdays, it could go along Dartmouth Road like the 89 does. I know you have the 80 also going to West Brom, but Bearwood doesn't really have a straightforward link to West Brom these days.
I'd also reintroduce the 444, (numbered 51?) and run it down Manor Road like the 46 used to, to the island at Hales Lane, then up Hales Lane and it's old route to Norman Road, then up Alexander Road, Abbey Road, Barclay Road, Upper St Mary's Road, then onto Bearwood Road and the bus station. Run it every half hour until 7pm Monday to Sunday. I live on the 89 route and on Sundays because Diamond's 21 doesn't run, we have no service to Bearwood or Oldbury, a reintroduced 444 would give us links back to Bearwood, Warley, Oldbury and a increased link to West Brom.
The 48?
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 03, 2019, 08:41:03 AM
They did that before the Wolverhampton network changes a few hears back. Was known as the 501. However, I do agree with you and it's annoying when the school kids on the Tettenhall Road push and shove onto the buses.
Yeah I remember that - was a while back! Were the 501 and 558 rejoined due to profitability?
Quote from: Nathan on August 03, 2019, 10:59:58 AM
Why would you run the latter from Pensnett. The Dudley to Wolverhampton section was run from Park Lane as the 558, so if they split it... it'd probably be WN operating both sides.
I know, it would just be nice to have another garage operating into Wolverhampton, as since the 89's withdrawal only Park Lane has been operating around Wolves
Quote from: nathanielrwi on August 04, 2019, 12:51:53 PM
I know, it would just be nice to have another garage operating into Wolverhampton, as since the 89's withdrawal only Park Lane has been operating around Wolves
Though I suppose it's only a peak working, West Bromwich do operate an X8 in the mornings. Is that still the case, being that its the school holidays?
Quote from: CL on August 04, 2019, 02:08:44 PM
Though I suppose it's only a peak working, West Bromwich do operate an X8 in the mornings. Is that still the case, being that its the school holidays?
X8 to Wolves or an X8 to Brum?
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 04, 2019, 02:14:29 PM
X8 to Wolves or an X8 to Brum?
Not entirely sure, so don't quote me on this:
I believe it begins at Bearwood, where it heads to Wolverhampton (in service) and does the full length Wolves to Brum from there. Goes onto the 74, afterwards, I think - it's usually a Soho branded E400, anyhow.
I'm sure someone would come along to correct me, if I'm wrong
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 04, 2019, 11:43:59 AM
The 48?
Ok, I'll rephrase that, the bottom end of Bearwood Road, doesn't have a direct route, as the 89 goes all the way round the Wrekin.
If the current version of the Arriva 2 fails, try rerouting via Blakenall Lane, introducing a link between Blakenall shops & Leamore shops, then straight down to Walsall like it used to!
(If they kept the current routing between Bloxwich & Blakenall, they would only miss one stop on Bloxwich Road!)
Quote from: Westy on August 08, 2019, 06:28:56 PM
If the current version of the Arriva 2 fails, try rerouting via Blakenall Lane, introducing a link between Blakenall shops & Leamore shops, then straight down to Walsall like it used to!
(If they kept the current routing between Bloxwich & Blakenall, they would only miss one stop on Bloxwich Road!)
I like that idea and I've always thought that another good alternative is run a couple of buses an hour from Proffitt Street, over the Coalpool Lane Bridge and left into Holden Crescent and rejoin at Ross Road then normal line of route. We tried this (unofficially) during the early 90s bus strikes and it seemed to work well. There's a huge area in this Coalpool/North Walsall sector that could be covered, even by a Holden Crescent, Beddows Road and Dartmouth Avenue re-route.
Quote from: Wumpty on August 09, 2019, 10:12:48 AM
I like that idea and I've always thought that another good alternative is run a couple of buses an hour from Proffitt Street, over the Coalpool Lane Bridge and left into Holden Crescent and rejoin at Ross Road then normal line of route. We tried this (unofficially) during the early 90s bus strikes and it seemed to work well. There's a huge area in this Coalpool/North Walsall sector that could be covered, even by a Holden Crescent, Beddows Road and Dartmouth Avenue re-route.
Didn't they try the 319 down Beddows Road at one point?
Seem to remember it falling foul of 'local unrest ' so it was rerouted to it's current setup!
(Rycroft & Coalpool being dodgy areas at one point! Certainly Mother warned me about the place over many years, as she came from Stafford Street!)
Quote from: Westy on August 09, 2019, 12:22:21 PM
Didn't they try the 319 down Beddows Road at one point?
Seem to remember it falling foul of 'local unrest ' so it was rerouted to it's current setup!
(Rycroft & Coalpool being dodgy areas at one point! Certainly Mother warned me about the place over many years, as she came from Stafford Street!)
Yes, they routed the 319 away from Hatherton Road, North Street and Proffitt Street along the old 372 track route via Stafford Street, Bloxwich Road, Forest Lane, Webster Road, Rutland Street, Beddows Road, Dartmouth Avenue then onto Goscote, Blakenall and Bloxwich!
I never understood the original 319 route running Hatherton Road, North Street and Proffitt Street as there were very few housing areas (except The Butts which was served by Arboretum-bound services on Lichfield Road). One of the reasons it was re-routed as per 372 was a child was killed at the junction of Hatherton Road/Butts Road when they rode their bike down the slope from the flats on Teddesley Street into the oncoming path of a 319.
Your dear Mother was absolutely right! There was certainly a lot of damaged windows and unrest along this section (and coming from North Walsall myself I can wholly accept it!!!!). They compromised by re-routing it back to Forest Lane and Dartmouth Avenue only.
Quote from: Wumpty on August 09, 2019, 01:32:27 PM
Yes, they routed the 319 away from Hatherton Road, North Street and Proffitt Street along the old 372 track route via Stafford Street, Bloxwich Road, Forest Lane, Webster Road, Rutland Street, Beddows Road, Dartmouth Avenue then onto Goscote, Blakenall and Bloxwich!
I never understood the original 319 route running Hatherton Road, North Street and Proffitt Street as there were very few housing areas (except The Butts which was served by Arboretum-bound services on Lichfield Road). One of the reasons it was re-routed as per 372 was a child was killed at the junction of Hatherton Road/Butts Road when they rode their bike down the slope from the flats on Teddesley Street into the oncoming path of a 319.
Your dear Mother was absolutely right! There was certainly a lot of damaged windows and unrest along this section (and coming from North Walsall myself I can wholly accept it!!!!). They compromised by re-routing it back to Forest Lane and Dartmouth Avenue only.
Did you ever see 'The Big Story ' post Itv 1993, the one episode set in Coalpool/Rycroft?
I showed a tape of it to a schoolmate, & despite the blurring of the faces, he recognised everyone in it!
Quote from: Westy on August 09, 2019, 05:48:13 PM
Did you ever see 'The Big Story ' post Itv 1993, the one episode set in Coalpool/Rycroft?
I showed a tape of it to a schoolmate, & despite the blurring of the faces, he recognised everyone in it!
No I didn't, but just searched Youtube and can't find it!
Anyone who was anyone would've known them, blurred or not! Proper scallywags in those days, none of this baseball cap and jeans down your harris gang ;)
I also remember the Coalpool Riots late 80s/early 90s and recall one of the inspectors at Walsall telling me that they continued to run the buses through the riots because one of the major players in the riots' Mum needed to get to bingo and they weren't about to tell them no!!!!!
I would withdraw the 28 evening and Sundays extension to Small Heath. There are barely any passengers on that section and I'm surprised that it lasted this long. I wouldn't even try to replace it because it would fail.
Quote from: Busboy105 on August 24, 2019, 07:27:54 AM
I would withdraw the 28 evening and Sundays extension to Small Heath. There are barely any passengers on that section and I'm surprised that it lasted this long. I wouldn't even try to replace it because it would fail.
I'm not that familiar with the 28 - just checked the timetable and a Monday to Saturday service operates Great Barr - Heartlands Hospital (with some evening extensions to Small Heath) and Sundays operates Dyas Road to Small Heath only.
If they stopped the Sunday service between Heartlands Hospital to Small Heath, why not extend the service back as Great Barr - Heartlands Hospital again?
Quote from: Wumpty on August 27, 2019, 07:29:51 AM
I'm not that familiar with the 28 - just checked the timetable and a Monday to Saturday service operates Great Barr - Heartlands Hospital (with some evening extensions to Small Heath) and Sundays operates Dyas Road to Small Heath only.
If they stopped the Sunday service between Heartlands Hospital to Small Heath, why not extend the service back as Great Barr - Heartlands Hospital again?
The Hospital to Small Heath is a tendered extension to fill a gap not served by other services.
The 28 Traditionally went to Small Heath, so there has been an Alum Rock to Small Heath service for as long as I can remember. In comparison the Scott Arms extension is quite recent
Quote from: Tony on August 27, 2019, 08:04:33 AM
The Hospital to Small Heath is a tendered extension to fill a gap not served by other services.
The 28 Traditionally went to Small Heath, so there has been an Alum Rock to Small Heath service for as long as I can remember. In comparison the Scott Arms extension is quite recent
I've lived on the 28 all my life (in different locations), I remember the 28 going into the City Centre which ceased in 1980. I think the 28 would be worth while if was extended to Scott Arms in the evenings and Sundays. I live near the Hawthorn Road side of the route and the amount of passengers that have asked drivers if they go to Perry Beeches/Scott Arms at night is countless.
Well can't they just bring back the 28B and keep the 28 running between Heartlands Hospital and Great Barr at all times?
Quote from: Busboy105 on August 27, 2019, 02:11:51 PM
Well can't they just bring back the 28B and keep the 28 running between Heartlands Hospital and Great Barr at all times?
The 28B was just a number used for the Small Heath part of the route, it's just numbered 28 now. The 28B was not a separate route
Was it? I thought it was a separate route.
Well I would cut the 28 to Heartlands Hospital and make a new 28B running from Small Heath to Old Oscott while extending all journeys on the 28 to Great Barr.
Quote from: Busboy105 on August 27, 2019, 03:47:04 PM
Was it? I thought it was a separate route.
Well I would cut the 28 to Heartlands Hospital and make a new 28B running from Small Heath to Old Oscott while extending all journeys on the 28 to Great Barr.
In the evenings the 28 uses 4 buses, how many buses do you think your idea would use ?
2 for the 28 2 for the 28B
Quote from: Busboy105 on August 27, 2019, 04:32:41 PM
2 for the 28 2 for the 28B
So that's every hour each route then ?
It would make a lot more sense for the 28 to do the Perry Beeches/Scott Arms route during Sunday's and evenings. Also the 28 does this pointless extension because the 28A doesn't run evenings and Sundays.
What about if the 28A replaces the 28 between Small Heath and Heartlands Hospital fully by running evenings and Sundays. That way the 28 still keeps its 30 minutes frequency while it could be a boost for Diamond as they don't have a lot of services running around those times.
So NX have recently extended the X3 and the X51 to Cannock and Lichfield so I was thinking....
I would create a 50X that will run between Birmingham and Redditch (I know that the 150 does that but hear me out) but it will run as a limited stop service to Wythall where it will serve the Hollywood Bypass between Maypole and Wythall and then follow the 150 to Redditch.
Frequency would probably be every 20 or 30 minutes Monday to Saturday (not sure on Sundays).
Evening journeys will terminate at Maypole.
Quote from: Busboy105 on September 12, 2019, 07:59:20 PM
So NX have recently extended the X3 and the X51 to Cannock and Lichfield so I was thinking....
I would create a 50X that will run between Birmingham and Redditch (I know that the 150 does that but hear me out) but it will run as a limited stop service to Wythall where it will serve the Hollywood Bypass between Maypole and Wythall and then follow the 150 to Redditch.
Frequency would probably be every 20 or 30 minutes Monday to Saturday (not sure on Sundays).
Evening journeys will terminate at Maypole.
Absolutely no point whatsoever, would cost a fortune and would carry fresh air
Quote from: Steve3229vp on September 12, 2019, 08:18:59 PM
Absolutely no point whatsoever, would cost a fortune and would carry fresh air
With respect Steve, the thread asks what would YOU do, and Busboy has given an opinion. I think his contribution is valid and a fair one - the commercial viability is a separate issue.
What would YOU do with this section of route? Always good to get a second opinion.
There is nothing that can be done about it really, even if NX was to operate along that route the passenger numbers would only increase slightly due to travelcards maybe. It's never been a frequent corridor and it's very unlikely to change.
NX previously operated a peak-time 50A service to/from Wythall, but was withdrawn due to 'lack of use'.
It's an interesting idea, but I don't know how well used the 150 is through Hollywood and Wythall, and how many passengers from Birmingham use it to travel all the way to Redditch, to be able to comment on whether it would be worthwhile using Hollywood Bypass to miss those areas out.
Quote from: Stu on September 13, 2019, 07:05:19 PM
NX previously operated a peak-time 50A service to/from Wythall, but was withdrawn due to 'lack of use'.
It's an interesting idea, but I don't know how well used the 150 is through Hollywood and Wythall, and how many passengers from Birmingham use it to travel all the way to Redditch, to be able to comment on whether it would be worthwhile using Hollywood Bypass to miss those areas out.
The only way the 50a would work would be to have it as a more frequent all day service. I have suggested before that one bus every 20 minutes could go to Wythall instead of Druids Heath from the Maypole. If it went straight down the Hollywood bypass to a Becketts island then did the route back through Wythall and Hollywood to the Maypole it could be done in about 15 minutes. The buses at aDruids Heath seem to have about several minutes parked up time at the terminus so taking away that plus the time to and from there to the maypole would probably equal about 15 minutes too, so it could be changed without needing any extra vehicles.
The only issue would be that the 50a would not get any make up time at its outer terminus. This however I do not think is a major problem as at the Maypole the normal 50 will still be able to maintain a mostly 4-5 minute frequency so could fill any gap if there was a delay. Also, if the 50a was inter run with the 50 then on its second trip it would get the make up time at Druids Heath. Wythall is a large area, with significant social housing as well as affluent areas , and is crying out for such a service. The A4 is not great as irregular as is the 150 service .
I'm well aware it doesn't go there anymore but not so long ago I took the 23 to get to Cromwell Lane and it felt like it took an eternity. I'm not sure whether this used to be the case when the 22 ran also, but it seems to go right round the wrekin now serving every single side road possible in Bartley Green and Woodgate. So personally I'd cut it back to Wood Lane terminus and have Newman Uni served by the X21 or X22. The X21 would go Woodcock Lane, Cromwell Lane, Genners Approach before terminating on Genners Lane adjacent to the Uni then turning back on itself to go back the same way.
Hillwood Road and Moors Lane would not be served, so I'd add stops on Woodcock Lane and Cromwell Lane respectively for that purpose.
Just feel that it's quicker for people around there going this way than all the way around Woodgate etc. As for the X22 not sure on that one, but it isn't far away anyway.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 23, 2019, 06:30:47 AM
I'd still replace the 10H with a 25 though. Which would follow the 24 out of City & Harborne but turn left at Quinton, West Boulevard to serve Weoley Castle and terminate at Shenley Fields. With the introduction of these two you could probably drop the 24 frequency a little bit and maybe have the 24/25 interworking.
Then either cut the 27 away from Harborne/Weoley Castle altogether or curtail it to Weoley Castle and have it serve Swathmore Road instead.
I know this is old post and again some of the things won't make sense to others. However, I recently thought about this and frankly, it would be just better to bring back 29 route and at 30 minutes frequency and hourly after 9pm. But of course, this will likely to see frequency cut on the likes of X21 and X22 routes after University station and so I thought it would be better to have the new route number or letter, instead of short journeys.
Also, if the 27 route goes back to previous route, I thought about the 48 route replacement particularly on the old 84 route section. My thinking was like cut the 48 to QEHB and replace the route number of the 84 route section to 11H and extend it to Acocks Green, maybe? So it can interwork with 1A both ends?
Quote from: Sayeed on September 22, 2019, 10:21:51 PM
I know this is old post and again some of the things won't make sense to others. However, I recently thought about this and frankly, it would be just better to bring back 29 route and at 30 minutes frequency and hourly after 9pm. But of course, this will likely to see frequency cut on the likes of X21 and X22 routes after University station and so I thought it would be better to have the new route number or letter, instead of short journeys.
Also, if the 27 route goes back to previous route, I thought about the 48 route replacement particularly on the old 84 route section. My thinking was like cut the 48 to QEHB and replace the route number of the 84 route section to 11H and extend it to Acocks Green, maybe? So it can interwork with 1A both ends?
The 48 goes to Hawkesley, like the 84 used to. The 11 and 48 follow the same line of route from Selly Oak to Cotteridge, where they separate and go completely different ways. 48 to Hawkesley and Northfield, whilst the 11 goes to Kings Heath, Sarehole Mill and Acocks Green. So can't see how it would even be possible to extend the old 84 section of the 48 route to Acocks Green.
X20/X21/X22 always are popular and well used routes. So can't see why they should be cut back.
Would there even be much benefit to a 11H, the 11 currently provides a frequent service around the Outer Circle. Passengers at QEHB can also currently take the 1A to Acocks Green, 76 to Kings Heath, or 48 to Cotteridge?
How about cut the 48 to the Q.E and reintroduce the 84 running every 30 minutes between The Q.E and Northfield. Wouldn't that be a better idea?
Completely random. But would an every 30 minutes 20B on Sunday - during the day work. Buses every 10 minutes along the Foleshill Road, 4 buses an hour to Oban, I was thinking something along the lines of
20 | | 20A | | 20B | | 20 | | 20A | | 20B |
xx:00 | | xx:10 | | xx:20 | | xx:30 | | xx:40 | | xx:50 |
Quote from: Busboy105 on September 23, 2019, 07:18:51 PM
How about cut the 48 to the Q.E and reintroduce the 84 running every 30 minutes between The Q.E and Northfield. Wouldn't that be a better idea?
Or how about bring it back how it previously run to Hawkesley? It is well used during peak hours and I am surprised it is picking up few passengers in the afternoon on half hourly frequency. Weekend however, hourly frequency would be fine.
I would extend the X4 From Minworth to Tamworth Via Kingsbury & Dosthill. This service would run every 30 mins in the daytime and every hour in the evenings. I would also extend the X5 from Roughly to Tamworth on a similar route to the 110. This would go via Mile Oak, Sir Robert Peel hosp & Fazley. This would run every 20 mins during the daytime monday to Saturday & every 30 mins during the evening & every hour on Sundays.
Quote from: BusMan Greg on September 24, 2019, 09:12:31 PM
I would extend the X4 From Minworth to Tamworth Via Kingsbury & Dosthill. This service would run every 30 mins in the daytime and every hour in the evenings. I would also extend the X5 from Roughly to Tamworth on a similar route to the 110. This would go via Mile Oak, Sir Robert Peel hosp & Fazley. This would run every 20 mins during the daytime monday to Saturday & every 30 mins during the evening & every hour on Sundays.
Its already a long route from Birmingham to Minworth on the X4 and currently goes via Sutton.
The 116 used to do that operating from Minworth, Kingsbury and Tamworth. But since it no longer exists in any form, usage can't have been that great?
Quote from: 2206 on September 24, 2019, 09:15:28 PM
Its already a long route from Birmingham to Minworth on the X4 and currently goes via Sutton.
The 116 used to do that operating to Minworth, Kingsbury and Tamworth. But since it no longer exists in any form, usage can't have been that great?
The passenger usage weren't that great on the 112 Brum-Lichfield however NatEx still tried to make the corridor work with the extension of the X3. So if NatEx are willing to try & resurrect dead corridors why the hell shouldn't they try it?
Quote from: BusMan Greg on September 24, 2019, 09:19:48 PM
The passenger usage weren't that great on the 112 Brum-Lichfield however NatEx still tried to make the corridor work with the extension of the X3. So if NatEx are willing to try & resurrect dead corridors why the hell shouldn't they try it?
I doubt people would use these X4/X5's extensions to Tamworth, particularly when the 110 takes half the time from Sutton. I'm sure people would rather a route running down the main road instead of slowly going along the residential streets of Falcon Lodge...
Dead corridors? The X3 extension wasn't a dead corridor, the X12 was well used along that section.
Quote from: Jack on September 25, 2019, 06:12:10 PM
I doubt people would use these X4/X5's extensions to Tamworth, particularly when the 110 takes half the time from Sutton. I'm sure people would rather a route running down the main road instead of slowly going along the residential streets of Falcon Lodge...
Dead corridors? The X3 extension wasn't a dead corridor, the X12 was well used along that section.
NatEx are probably the most suitable operator for the X3 as arriva use to put shit darts on there.
Quote from: BusMan Greg on September 25, 2019, 08:10:59 PM
NatEx are probably the most suitable operator for the X3 as arriva use to put shit darts on there.
I was talking about the X12, not 112...
From what can remember - the 112 was operated by Omnilinks and Citaro's towards the end. And I'm sure the 112 did a slightly different route into Lichfield than the X3?
Quote from: Jack on September 25, 2019, 08:32:57 PM
I was talking about the X12, not 112...
From what can remember - the 112 was operated by Omnilinks and Citaro's towards the end. And I'm sure the 112 did a slightly different route into Lichfield than the X3?
The 112 was transferred to Wednesfield in its final months and the frequency cut to every 2 hours. Wednesfield used darts on the route
Quote from: Jack on September 25, 2019, 08:32:57 PM
I was talking about the X12, not 112...
And I'm sure the 112 did a slightly different route into Lichfield than the X3?
Only to avoid the low bridge
I've always thought about a Dudley - Merry Hill express service running direct along Duncan Edwards Way. Frequency could be every 10 - 15 mins.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on October 15, 2019, 01:25:26 PM
I've always thought about a Dudley - Merry Hill express service running direct along Duncan Edwards Way. Frequency could be every 10 - 15 mins.
Don't we have enough Dudley to Merry Hill services already? I mean this route is basically an express version of the 2/2A.
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 16, 2019, 06:31:09 AM
Don't we have enough Dudley to Merry Hill services already? I mean this route is basically an express version of the 2/2A.
There's already the 8 which uses some of the bypass between cinderbank island and holly hall road ( towards merry hill ) then between holly hall road and Scott green island , which only takes around 20 mins Dudley to merry hill , also with a 20 mins frequency
Plus the 2 or 2A don't go by the bypass at all
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 16, 2019, 06:31:09 AM
Don't we have enough Dudley to Merry Hill services already? I mean this route is basically an express version of the 2/2A.
The 2/2A takes a completely different 'round the houses route' through Russells Hall and Pensnett so no it isn't an express version.
Quote from: Jack6101 on October 16, 2019, 07:57:45 AM
There's already the 8 which uses some of the bypass between cinderbank island and holly hall road ( towards merry hill ) then between holly hall road and Scott green island , which only takes around 20 mins Dudley to merry hill , also with a 20 mins frequency
Plus the 2 or 2A don't go by the bypass at all
Yes there is the 8, but that section round Holly Hall seems to slow it down a bit. A direct service that bypasses Holly Hall would be more attractive to customers I think.
(X51/2E) Evening and Sunday X51 or Arriva 2E journeys to Cannock
(4M) An express version of the Walsall - Merry Hill service
Quote from: l.murphy123 on October 19, 2019, 06:08:51 PM
(X51/2E) Evening and Sunday X51 or Arriva 2E journeys to Cannock
(4M) An express version of the Walsall - Merry Hill service
I like the 4M express idea. The route is pretty long so by making limited stop is a good idea.
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 19, 2019, 07:40:42 PM
I like the 4M express idea. The route is pretty long so by making limited stop is a good idea.
Its about an hour and a half start to finish! It currently passes about 5 cemeteries and 2 hospitals for those that dont make it to Merry Hill lol
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 19, 2019, 07:40:42 PM
I like the 4M express idea. The route is pretty long so by making limited stop is a good idea.
Would still get stuck in the exact same traffic as the 4M currently does...
Quote from: l.murphy123 on October 19, 2019, 09:31:31 PM
Its about an hour and a half start to finish! It currently passes about 5 cemeteries and 2 hospitals for those that dont make it to Merry Hill lol
Five cemeteries? Are you sure? I know about the hospitals (Sandwell General and Rowley Regis) but I don't know about the cemeteries.
Quote from: Jack on October 19, 2019, 09:34:18 PM
Would still get stuck in the exact same traffic as the 4M currently does...
How about splitting the 4M to West Bromwich and run another service following the 4M route to Merry Hill?
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 19, 2019, 09:36:06 PM
How about splitting the 4M to West Bromwich and run another service following the 4M route to Merry Hill?
There's already the 3, but that just feels like it takes forever going through every side street of Rowley...
There's no point splitting the 4M at West Brom, the 4 does the same route up to Blackheath, so just withdraw the 4M between there and Walsall. There's already a service that goes from Blackheath to Merry Hill (3) but this means no direct service from Blackheath to Cradley Heath train station, you've got the 24 and all the tenderer services that take forever.
Splitting the 4M is just something that would not work, there's too many important links in between and hardly every passenger goes from Walsall all the way to Merry Hill...
How about combining the Dudley to Merry Hill missing out Holly Hall service mentioned earlier, with a Dudley to Walsall service via Great Bridge, the BCR, Wednesbury, IKEA, James Bridge, Pleck?
(Please note, not suggested just because I now work at our company's branch at James Bridge!)
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 19, 2019, 09:34:37 PM
Five cemeteries? Are you sure? I know about the hospitals (Sandwell General and Rowley Regis) but I don't know about the cemeteries.
Well Im exaggerating a bit lol but it does take forever. I understand there's lots of links which are important but an express service between Walsall and Merry Hill would be great for shoppers. Even if it were every 2 hours.
Quote from: l.murphy123 on October 19, 2019, 11:02:12 PM
Well Im exaggerating a bit lol but it does take forever. I understand there's lots of links which are important but an express service between Walsall and Merry Hill would be great for shoppers. Even if it were every 2 hours.
Walsall shoppers will go to Birmingham before they go to merry hill...
Quote from: l.murphy123 on October 19, 2019, 11:02:12 PM
Well Im exaggerating a bit lol but it does take forever. I understand there's lots of links which are important but an express service between Walsall and Merry Hill would be great for shoppers. Even if it were every 2 hours.
Didnt there used to be a 310 service?
Quote from: Dutsey on October 21, 2019, 10:53:30 AM
Didnt there used to be a 310 service?
There have been a number of variations of the 310 over the years. Taj/Thandi/Transol used to operate Walsall to Dudley via Pleack, Myvod, Wednesbury, Tipton. Birmingham Coach Company (and then branded as a Diamond route before it became Diamond Bus) ran the same route, then amended to serve Ikea too.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on October 20, 2019, 08:38:22 AM
Walsall shoppers will go to Birmingham before they go to merry hill...
Not necessarily - it would depend upon a number of factors.
If public transport was the only defining factor then there'd probably be a higher percentage of younger people head to Brum. I suspect the older contingent would prefer an everything-under-one-roof under cover shopping centre.
Nowadays, If I'm going to either, I'll drive from Wolverhampton because there's no real fast, direct express bus services to either and until we improve transport links and reduce car useage (of which I'm part of the problem and not convince of the alternatives) then bus use will still suffer.
Quote from: Dutsey on October 21, 2019, 10:53:30 AM
Didnt there used to be a 310 service?
Arriva Wednesfield ran the 310 to Merry Hill but it got cut back because of low numbers.
Quote from: Wumpty on October 21, 2019, 12:18:07 PM
There have been a number of variations of the 310 over the years. Taj/Thandi/Transol used to operate Walsall to Dudley via Pleack, Myvod, Wednesbury, Tipton. Birmingham Coach Company (and then branded as a Diamond route before it became Diamond Bus) ran the same route, then amended to serve Ikea too.
There was a 399 too, I recall seeing Diamond operate it with yellow Ikea branded single decks? Pretty sure they stopped it because of people carrying flat pack furniture on them making them unreliable?
Walsall to Wednesbury via Pleck, Ikea, Myvod Road?
Do you think that Birmingham needs a city centre circular service like Manchester does? I know there are quite a few services that serves a large portion of town like the 16,23,24 but a whole city centre circular service could be a good idea. I only thought of one so far and it will go like this:
It will start at the markets, then serve Moor Street Station, Priory Queensway, Colmore Row, Paradise Circus, Birmingham Town Hall, down the Suffolk Street Queensway to Navigation Street where it will serve New Street Station and Grand Central and back to Markets via Station Street, Dudley Street and Pershore Street.
This route will probably come into place after the part between Parade and Broad Street reopens to traffic. Also it could extend the route to serve the new Curzon Street Station when it opens.
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 23, 2019, 09:53:55 AM
Do you think that Birmingham needs a city centre circular service like Manchester does? I know there are quite a few services that serves a large portion of town like the 16,23,24 but a whole city centre circular service could be a good idea. I only thought of one so far and it will go like this:
It will start at the markets, then serve Moor Street Station, Priory Queensway, Colmore Row, Paradise Circus, Birmingham Town Hall, down the Suffolk Street Queensway to Navigation Street where it will serve New Street Station and Grand Central and back to Markets via Station Street, Dudley Street and Pershore Street.
This route will probably come into place after the part between Parade and Broad Street reopens to traffic. Also it could extend the route to serve the new Curzon Street Station when it opens.
There's so few journies there that you cannot currently do it wouldn't be worth it
Quote from: Tony on October 23, 2019, 10:02:29 AM
There's so few journies there that you cannot currently do it wouldn't be worth it
I know that's why I said at the end that it will only work when the Paradise Circus works have finished and the part of Parade between Suffolk Street Queensway and Broad Street reopens.
16 covers markets.
Through the 00s Service 46 served upper dean street.
Through the 90s sutton routes 114 115 did a city circle serving markets.
As did Arriva /Stevensons/Midland Red servicee 112 110
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 23, 2019, 11:01:11 AM
I know that's why I said at the end that it will only work when the Paradise Circus works have finished and the part of Parade between Suffolk Street Queensway and Broad Street reopens.
No it's not. My question was what journies would it provide that are not currently available
Quote from: Tony on October 23, 2019, 05:18:45 PM
No it's not. My question was what journies would it provide that are not currently available
Looking at it now, not much really. The only way would be to curtail the 16,23,24 but that would do more harm than good.
Zaks used to run the station link service round the city centre but was short lived
Quote from: Busboy105 on October 23, 2019, 09:53:55 AM
Do you think that Birmingham needs a city centre circular service like Manchester does? I know there are quite a few services that serves a large portion of town like the 16,23,24 but a whole city centre circular service could be a good idea. I only thought of one so far and it will go like this:
It will start at the markets, then serve Moor Street Station, Priory Queensway, Colmore Row, Paradise Circus, Birmingham Town Hall, down the Suffolk Street Queensway to Navigation Street where it will serve New Street Station and Grand Central and back to Markets via Station Street, Dudley Street and Pershore Street.
This route will probably come into place after the part between Parade and Broad Street reopens to traffic. Also it could extend the route to serve the new Curzon Street Station when it opens.
As a standalone thing, no
Although I'm convinced that something should be made of better connecting bits of the city centre, now that it's spilling beyond it's usual limits. Places such as Gosta Green/Aston Uni/City Uni and Jewellery Quarter are more or less considered city centre now and either an extension of existing services into those areas or a proper minibus network such as in Manchester would be beneficial. Hell I've said it before I've always thought a complete carve up of the 8A/C could be included to aid inner city areas
Regarding Wythall.
Currently the 150 runs essentially requiring 3 buses to provide an hourly frequency (ok, interworking with the Worcester service etc, but the Redditch - Brum section is just over an hour so definitely more than 2 buses)
With the same number of vehicles Diamond could easily extend a 50 every half hour to Redditch, and would surely benefit them with the amount of dead mileage and driver changeovers the 50 currently requires
Quote from: Kevin on November 05, 2019, 08:34:15 AM
As a standalone thing, no
Although I'm convinced that something should be made of better connecting bits of the city centre, now that it's spilling beyond it's usual limits. Places such as Gosta Green/Aston Uni/City Uni and Jewellery Quarter are more or less considered city centre now and either an extension of existing services into those areas or a proper minibus network such as in Manchester would be beneficial. Hell I've said it before I've always thought a complete carve up of the 8A/C could be included to aid inner city areas
What's wrong with the current route of the 8A/C?
Increase the (full) 997 to every 20 minutes during the day. Reason being the Aldridge to Pheasey section is busy quite a lot and what doesn't help is Aldridge only has 2 services to Birmingham, people generally pick the 997 over the 937 because they don't want to be snaking along side roads off Erdington Road. The fastest route between Aldridge and Birmingham is the 936, but that's fruitless...
Bring back the 997E...
I'd also reroute the 997 to continue along Aldridge Road instead of serving Old Oscott... pretty much adding 10-15 minutes on the journey time and it is always empty going around there. Ok leaving Shady Lane without a bus service but only a few stops with few people who could easily walk to Aldridge Road and Kings Road either end. There's the 89 service but I'd reroute it by going right onto Old Oscott Lane instead of left onto Old Oscott Hill and then onto Dyas Road following normal line of route. Dyas Road has a bus service (28) and could use it to get a bus to Birmingham either end. Would save quite some journey time serving back streets.
I've heard the 89 is rumoured withdrawal because of low usage...
Quote from: Jack on November 09, 2019, 08:10:47 PM
Increase the (full) 997 to every 20 minutes during the day. Reason being the Aldridge to Pheasey section is busy quite a lot and what doesn't help is Aldridge only has 2 services to Birmingham, people generally pick the 997 over the 937 because they don't want to be snaking along side roads off Erdington Road. The fastest route between Aldridge and Birmingham is the 936, but that's fruitless...
Bring back the 997E...
I'd also reroute the 997 to continue along Aldridge Road instead of serving Old Oscott... pretty much adding 10-15 minutes on the journey time and it is always empty going around there. Ok leaving Shady Lane without a bus service but only a few stops with few people who could easily walk to Aldridge Road and Kings Road either end. There's the 89 service but I'd reroute it by going right onto Old Oscott Lane instead of left onto Old Oscott Hill and then onto Dyas Road following normal line of route. Dyas Road has a bus service (28) and could use it to get a bus to Birmingham either end. Would save quite some journey time serving back streets.
I've heard the 89 is rumoured withdrawal because of low usage...
Why was the 936 changed to peak times only?
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 09, 2019, 09:34:57 PM
Why was the 936 changed to peak times only?
56 withdrawal and the 937 introduction.
Quote from: Jack on November 09, 2019, 09:42:39 PM
56 withdrawal and the 937 introduction.
Wasn't the 936 introduced to replace the 56?
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 09, 2019, 11:23:59 PM
Wasn't the 936 introduced to replace the 56?
Nope. 936 introduced in competition. Then beat the 56. Then NXWM "graciously" introduced the 937 to cover the loss of the 56, and cut back the competing 936 to peaks only
Quote from: Kevin on November 09, 2019, 11:36:05 PM
Nope. 936 introduced in competition. Then beat the 56. Then NXWM "graciously" introduced the 937 to cover the loss of the 56, and cut back the competing 936 to peaks only
Ok thanks.
If the 'rumours' are true about Arriva's Cannock depot(see that thread, save repeating it here!), one of the 936 / 937 could be extended to Cannock, recreating in part the old 156?
Quote from: Jack on November 09, 2019, 08:10:47 PM
I've heard the 89 is rumoured withdrawal because of low usage...
Where have you heard this?
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 10, 2019, 06:02:50 PM
Where have you heard this?
The words "heard" and "rumoured" in the same sentence usually implies it won't happen...
I have two changes that I would like to see..
The first change is something that I don't know why we don't have it. The Fort Shopping Centre is one of the biggest shopping centres in Birmingham yet doesn't have a service that links it to the city centre.(Before anyone asks, the FD service doesn't serve the Fort.)
So here's my change.
I would extend the 38 to the city centre and upgrade the frequency to every 20/30 minutes. This change gives a new link from the City Centre to the Fort and Castle Vale (I know the 67 is already a good link between the city centre and Castle Vale). in the sense that employees that live on the other side of town don't have to take any bus to Erdington and then the current 38 or the 96 to the Fort.
The second change that I would like to see is a Bearwood-West Bromwich service via Smethwick.
There's 3 ways that I would want to do this:
1. There will be a new 15 service that will run between Birmingham and West Bromwich via Five Ways, Bearwood (via Sandon Road), Smethwick Blue Gates and Rolfe Street Station, The Hawthorns and West Bromwich.
2. There will be a new 83 service that will run between Bearwood and West Bromwich. It will follow the route that the first proposed route will take after Bearwood the only difference is that the 83 will serve Bearwood Bus Station and the upper part of Bearwood Road.
3. Extend the 61 from the Booth Street Metro Stop back to Bearwood extending to West Bromwich as the route mentioned above. This one is the third choice for a reason because I'm pretty sure the reason why the 61 was pegged back to Booth Street was because of low usage.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 11, 2019, 04:16:44 PM
I have two changes that I would like to see..
The first change is something that I don't know why we don't have it. The Fort Shopping Centre is one of the biggest shopping centres in Birmingham yet doesn't have a service that links it to the city centre.(Before anyone asks, the FD service doesn't serve the Fort.)
So here's my change.
I would extend the 38 to the city centre and upgrade the frequency to every 20/30 minutes. This change gives a new link from the City Centre to the Fort and Castle Vale (I know the 67 is already a good link between the city centre and Castle Vale). in the sense that employees that live on the other side of town don't have to take any bus to Erdington and then the current 38 or the 96 to the Fort.
Surely most of those shops are in Birmingham City Centre. And in terms of size, its probably fairly small in comparison to Solihull Town Centre and Birmingham City Centre.
Would many people from the other side of the City Centre actually travel to the Fort, can't see there being much demand, given that there is currently no service at all.
There did used to be a bus service from Birmingham City Centre (FD) and it ran all day - Which looking at its timetable does have a stop at the Fort shopping centre, which is also now peak time only.
Quote from: 2206 on November 11, 2019, 04:58:47 PM
Surely most of those shops are in Birmingham City Centre. And in terms of size, its probably fairly small in comparison to Solihull Town Centre and Birmingham City Centre.
Would many people from the other side of the City Centre actually travel to the Fort, can't see there being much demand, given that there is currently no service at all.
There did used to be a bus service from Birmingham City Centre (FD) and it ran all day - Which looking at its timetable does have a stop at the Fort shopping centre, which is also now peak time only.
FD is still around but it doesn't stop at the Fort it stops at Fort Dunlop instead.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 11, 2019, 05:43:14 PM
FD is still around but it doesn't stop at the Fort it stops at Fort Dunlop instead.
The stop list on Traveline WM states it stops that it does, "fort shopping centre, fort retail park":
Birmingham, Church Centre (Stop MS7)
Aston University, Matthew Boulton College (Stop JR1)
Aston University, Millennium Point (opp)
Nechells Green, Windsor St South (opp)
Nechells Green, Hyssop Close (adjacent)
Nechells Green, Bloomsbury Street (adj)
Saltley, Nechells Place (adj)
Nechells, Star City Terminus (on)
Fort Shopping Centre, Fort Retail Park (before)
Fort Dunlop (opp)
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 11, 2019, 04:16:44 PM
I have two changes that I would like to see..
The first change is something that I don't know why we don't have it. The Fort Shopping Centre is one of the biggest shopping centres in Birmingham yet doesn't have a service that links it to the city centre.(Before anyone asks, the FD service doesn't serve the Fort.)
So here's my change.
I would extend the 38 to the city centre and upgrade the frequency to every 20/30 minutes. This change gives a new link from the City Centre to the Fort and Castle Vale (I know the 67 is already a good link between the city centre and Castle Vale). in the sense that employees that live on the other side of town don't have to take any bus to Erdington and then the current 38 or the 96 to the Fort.
Many ways have been tried at service The Fort and there is just no demand.
First attempt was the 993/4 Limited stop from City to Chelmsley Wood via Fort. The 11A/C was diverted in. The 966 went via there. None came anywhere near close to making it worthwhile
Quote from: 2206 on November 11, 2019, 05:44:57 PM
The stop list on Traveline WM states it stops that it does, "fort shopping centre, fort retail park":
Fort Shopping Centre, Fort Retail Park (before)
The stops are on Fort Parkway, so while it doesn't directly serve the retail park as the 38 and 96 do, it does stop nearby.
Anyway, the Fort Shopping Park seems to have the same array of shops as most other shopping centres so I'm not sure why people would want to make a special trip from Birmingham city centre, which has Grand Central and the Bull Ring, to the Fort. Also there perhaps is a reason why the FD service doesn't operate all day any more, not enough demand.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 11, 2019, 04:16:44 PM
The second change that I would like to see is a Bearwood-West Bromwich service via Smethwick.
There's 3 ways that I would want to do this:
1. There will be a new 15 service that will run between Birmingham and West Bromwich via Five Ways, Bearwood (via Sandon Road), Smethwick Blue Gates and Rolfe Street Station, The Hawthorns and West Bromwich.
2. There will be a new 83 service that will run between Bearwood and West Bromwich. It will follow the route that the first proposed route will take after Bearwood the only difference is that the 83 will serve Bearwood Bus Station and the upper part of Bearwood Road.
Now this is something that warrants attention, as I have read several comments from some bus users bemoaning the lack of a direct bus service between Bearwood and Smethwick. I'm not sure whether such a service would need to continue into Birmingham or not, I might have to give this some thought myself.
Quote from: Tony on November 11, 2019, 05:58:07 PM
Many ways have been tried at service The Fort and there is just no demand.
First attempt was the 993/4 Limited stop from City to Chelmsley Wood via Fort. The 11A/C was diverted in. The 966 went via there. None came anywhere near close to making it worthwhile
When was the 11 diverted in?
Quote from: Stu on November 11, 2019, 06:08:28 PM
The stops are on Fort Parkway, so while it doesn't directly serve the retail park as the 38 and 96 do, it does stop nearby.
Anyway, the Fort Shopping Park seems to have the same array of shops as most other shopping centres so I'm not sure why people would want to make a special trip from Birmingham city centre, which has Grand Central and the Bull Ring, to the Fort. Also there perhaps is a reason why the FD service doesn't operate all day any more, not enough demand.
Now this is something that warrants attention, as I have read several comments from some bus users bemoaning the lack of a direct bus service between Bearwood and Smethwick. I'm not sure whether such a service would need to continue into Birmingham or not, I might have to give this some thought myself.
To be fair, considering the never-ending Broad Street works, reliability will be an issue.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 11, 2019, 04:16:44 PM
The second change that I would like to see is a Bearwood-West Bromwich service via Smethwick.
There's 3 ways that I would want to do this:
1. There will be a new 15 service that will run between Birmingham and West Bromwich via Five Ways, Bearwood (via Sandon Road), Smethwick Blue Gates and Rolfe Street Station, The Hawthorns and West Bromwich.
2. There will be a new 83 service that will run between Bearwood and West Bromwich. It will follow the route that the first proposed route will take after Bearwood the only difference is that the 83 will serve Bearwood Bus Station and the upper part of Bearwood Road.
3. Extend the 61 from the Booth Street Metro Stop back to Bearwood extending to West Bromwich as the route mentioned above. This one is the third choice for a reason because I'm pretty sure the reason why the 61 was pegged back to Booth Street was because of low usage.
The 61 could be extended to Grove Lane at the bottom of Cape Hill (eventually will be good for the new MMH when it's completed). I would say from Booth Street up to the main roundabout by Grove Lane and Windmill Lane, but straight down the 40mph road down to the McDonalds and then terminate opposite where the last 89E finishes. On the way back to Perry Barr it could go up Cape Hill and then right down Windmill Lane back to Booth Street and Perry Barr.
I was thinking the same can be done for the 54/54A - similar to my 61 idea. Could have the 54 from Rolfe Street go down Grove Lane to the McDonalds then up Cape Hill back to its normal route and have it from Quinton do its current route.
Then you could have the 54A from Rolfe Street do its current route up Windmill Lane to Quinton and on the way back go down Cape Hill to the McDonalds and then left at that roundabout up Grove Lane to its normal route back to West Bromwich.
In terms of a Bearwood to West Bromwich via Smethwick route. Bring back the 50 route have it follow the 48 towards Warley and then it can turn right at the roundabout at Norman Road, continue straight on Stanhope Road, right at Church Road, left Bearwood Road, straight on to Smethwick High Street, left Smethwick Blue Gates/Stony Lane, right Devonshire Road, left Holly Lane, right Victoria Road, left then right onto Rood End Road, right at the roundabout onto Birmingham Road, left onto Spon Lane South, straight over the roundabout to Trinity Way (or turns right if you want it to serve Kenrick Park), straight at the lights onto The Expressway, then Cronehills Linkway and New Street into West Bromwich Bus Station - shares the stand with either the 49 or the 54/54A.
Quote from: OH25 on November 11, 2019, 09:58:54 PM
The 61 could be extended to Grove Lane at the bottom of Cape Hill (eventually will be good for the new MMH when it's completed). I would say from Booth Street up to the main roundabout by Grove Lane and Windmill Lane, but straight down the 40mph road down to the McDonalds and then terminate opposite where the last 89E finishes. On the way back to Perry Barr it could go up Cape Hill and then right down Windmill Lane back to Booth Street and Perry Barr.
I was thinking the same can be done for the 54/54A - similar to my 61 idea. Could have the 54 from Rolfe Street go down Grove Lane to the McDonalds then up Cape Hill back to its normal route and have it from Quinton do its current route.
Then you could have the 54A from Rolfe Street do its current route up Windmill Lane to Quinton and on the way back go down Cape Hill to the McDonalds and then left at that roundabout up Grove Lane to its normal route back to West Bromwich.
In terms of a Bearwood to West Bromwich via Smethwick route. Bring back the 50 route have it follow the 48 towards Warley and then it can turn right at the roundabout at Norman Road, continue straight on Stanhope Road, right at Church Road, left Bearwood Road, straight on to Smethwick High Street, left Smethwick Blue Gates/Stony Lane, right Devonshire Road, left Holly Lane, right Victoria Road, left then right onto Rood End Road, right at the roundabout onto Birmingham Road, left onto Spon Lane South, straight over the roundabout to Trinity Way (or turns right if you want it to serve Kenrick Park), straight at the lights onto The Expressway, then Cronehills Linkway and New Street into West Bromwich Bus Station - shares the stand with either the 49 or the 54/54A.
Will that work for the 61? Because i don't think that will improve the passenger numbers on it, it's a dead route "walking".
With the 54/54A, is taking them out of Smethwick worth it?
The route 50 looks good, I would just change the route number to 83 because it's vacant. (I don't like when a new route takes up an already existing number). What would it's frequency be?
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 11, 2019, 06:57:40 PM
When was the 11 diverted in?
Might have been late 90s from memory, the other problem is used to create/ attract problems with teenage thugs causing problems on the buses and the shopping center
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 11, 2019, 10:23:00 PM
Will that work for the 61? Because i don't think that will improve the passenger numbers on it, it's a dead route "walking".
With the 54/54A, is taking them out of Smethwick worth it?
The route 50 looks good, I would just change the route number to 83 because it's vacant. (I don't like when a new route takes up an already existing number). What would it's frequency be?
I would think it creates a more useful link with the Dudley Road services rather than just the tram at Booth Street as well as hopefully maintaining it's reliability time wise. I do agree it's quite a weird route.
The 54/54A changes aren't taking it out of Smethwick, it's just creating an added loop around Cape Hill as well as something that may be needed for when the MMH opens. It might help with reliability with the traffic lights at the top of Cape Hill by Greggs.
I would think this 50 route would run every hour and finish early evening time .. similar times to the old Diamond 55 that was withdrawn recently.
Quote from: OH25 on November 12, 2019, 12:29:22 AM
I would think it creates a more useful link with the Dudley Road services rather than just the tram at Booth Street as well as hopefully maintaining it's reliability time wise. I do agree it's quite a weird route.
The 54/54A changes aren't taking it out of Smethwick, it's just creating an added loop around Cape Hill as well as something that may be needed for when the MMH opens. It might help with reliability with the traffic lights at the top of Cape Hill by Greggs.
I would think this 50 route would run every hour and finish early evening time .. similar times to the old Diamond 55 that was withdrawn recently.
Those changes look good to me. I don't think an hourly frequency for the 50 would work; people wouldn't be happy if they waited so long for a Bearwood-West Brom service only for it to be hourly. But then again, I'm kind of unfamiliar with the area.
Just had a random thought: would it be possible if the 20/21/122 services all combined together to form one Bearwood-Oldbury circular service?
Quote from: Stu on November 11, 2019, 06:08:28 PM
Now this is something that warrants attention, as I have read several comments from some bus users bemoaning the lack of a direct bus service between Bearwood and Smethwick. I'm not sure whether such a service would need to continue into Birmingham or not, I might have to give this some thought myself.
The 450 was decimated by having to serve Windmill Lane to replace the 438/439, making journeys between Bearwood and West Bromwich longer than required. Whilst other options are available, the 48 is not the quickest, and the 48A and 49 do "go around the wrekin", particularly the 49
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 11, 2019, 04:16:44 PM
I have two changes that I would like to see..
The first change is something that I don't know why we don't have it. The Fort Shopping Centre is one of the biggest shopping centres in Birmingham yet doesn't have a service that links it to the city centre.(Before anyone asks, the FD service doesn't serve the Fort.)
So here's my change.
I would extend the 38 to the city centre and upgrade the frequency to every 20/30 minutes. This change gives a new link from the City Centre to the Fort and Castle Vale (I know the 67 is already a good link between the city centre and Castle Vale). in the sense that employees that live on the other side of town don't have to take any bus to Erdington and then the current 38 or the 96 to the Fort.
The second change that I would like to see is a Bearwood-West Bromwich service via Smethwick.
There's 3 ways that I would want to do this:
1. There will be a new 15 service that will run between Birmingham and West Bromwich via Five Ways, Bearwood (via Sandon Road), Smethwick Blue Gates and Rolfe Street Station, The Hawthorns and West Bromwich.
2. There will be a new 83 service that will run between Bearwood and West Bromwich. It will follow the route that the first proposed route will take after Bearwood the only difference is that the 83 will serve Bearwood Bus Station and the upper part of Bearwood Road.
3. Extend the 61 from the Booth Street Metro Stop back to Bearwood extending to West Bromwich as the route mentioned above. This one is the third choice for a reason because I'm pretty sure the reason why the 61 was pegged back to Booth Street was because of low usage.
The biggest issue with The Fort is the location. It is one of the biggest out-of-town retail parks in the Midlands for that very reason - it was designed to be out of town and assumed for car users. How many people do you know would purposefully use an out-of-town facility,. do huge amounts of shopping and lug it all back on the bus? I'm sure there have been previous attempts at extending bus services to The Fort but the simple fact is it doesn't work.
I like your suggestions and, in the spirit of this topic, agree that your options are workable to find reasonable solutions. A comparable out-of-town retail park is Bentley Bridge in Wolverhampton, again, designed to be out of town and assumed for car users though the transport network has been improved over many years to link in with existing facilities at New Cross Hospital and Wednesfield town centre. It's an easier prospect to re-route services around the BB loop in both directions because of where it's sited.
Unfortunately, The Fort is going to be the exception to the public transport rule.
Quote from: Wumpty on November 12, 2019, 09:02:59 AM
The biggest issue with The Fort is the location. It is one of the biggest out-of-town retail parks in the Midlands for that very reason - it was designed to be out of town and assumed for car users. How many people do you know would purposefully use an out-of-town facility,. do huge amounts of shopping and lug it all back on the bus? I'm sure there have been previous attempts at extending bus services to The Fort but the simple fact is it doesn't work.
I like your suggestions and, in the spirit of this topic, agree that your options are workable to find reasonable solutions. A comparable out-of-town retail park is Bentley Bridge in Wolverhampton, again, designed to be out of town and assumed for car users though the transport network has been improved over many years to link in with existing facilities at New Cross Hospital and Wednesfield town centre. It's an easier prospect to re-route services around the BB loop in both directions because of where it's sited.
Unfortunately, The Fort is going to be the exception to the public transport rule.
That's probably why the Bentley Bridge links works so well. Because you can link them to NCH and Wednesfield whereas with the Fort, the only high profile areas that you can link with it are Sutton Coldfield and Chelmsley Wood which is already covered by the 71 and 96 respectively.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 12, 2019, 10:12:01 AM
That's probably why the Bentley Bridge links works so well. Because you can link them to NCH and Wednesfield whereas with the Fort, the only high profile areas that you can link with it are Sutton Coldfield and Chelmsley Wood which is already covered by the 71 and 96 respectively.
The 71 doesn't go anywhere near the Fort.
So doesn't link it with Sutton.
Quote from: 2206 on November 12, 2019, 10:51:27 AM
The 71 doesn't go anywhere near the Fort.
So doesn't link it with Sutton.
I meant that it stops close by.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 12, 2019, 12:36:00 PM
I meant that it stops close by.
It doesn't.
It goes nowhere near the Fort.
It comes down Chester Road/Newport Road from Clock Garage as the 28 does and then turns right at Spitfire Island and goes through Castle Vale.
Quote from: 2206 on November 12, 2019, 04:28:34 PM
It doesn't.
It goes nowhere near the Fort.
It comes down Chester Road/Newport Road from Clock Garage as the 28 does and then turns right at Spitfire Island and goes through Castle Vale.
I know that. I meant it stops a couple of minutes away from the Fort.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 12, 2019, 05:01:52 PM
I know that. I meant it stops a couple of minutes away from the Fort.
A couple of minutes? Have you ever walked it?
Looking on google earth it's about a mile & a quarter from the nearest 71 stop to the Fort, that'll take at least 20 minute hike from the 71 stop, you already have 38 & 96 going through, they'd be more buses on going through the Fort if there's regular a cash flow.
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 12, 2019, 08:26:19 AM
The 450 was decimated by having to serve Windmill Lane to replace the 438/439, making journeys between Bearwood and West Bromwich longer than required. Whilst other options are available, the 48 is not the quickest, and the 48A and 49 do "go around the wrekin", particularly the 49
Would something as simple as running a couple of journeys an hour as 87B Dudley to Bearwood be an option?
Quote from: sonic84 on November 12, 2019, 07:37:12 PM
Would something as simple as running a couple of journeys an hour as 87B Dudley to Bearwood be an option?
It would be when the new hospital opens. Also, that sharp turn at Cape Hill would be a problem and you wouldn't want to avoid that section to help out 82 with passenger loading.
Just seen a post on this forum complaining about the 11 Outer Circle. The 11 as it is struggles with reliability because it runs down the A4040 as it passes by major roads. What needs to happen is that the 11 needs to be split into several routes which will hopefully improve the reliabilty.
Route 1 will be Acocks Green to Perry Barr via Yardley, Ward End, Erdington and Witton.
Route 2 will be Perry Barr to Selly Oak via Handsworth, Winson Green, City Hospital, Bearwood and Harborne. This route can be extended to Weoley Castle, Shenley Fields and Northfield.
And route 3 will cover the rest of the existing 11 route from Selly Oak to Acocks Green via Cotteridge, Kings Heath, Billesley and Hall Green.
The numbers of the routes I haven't picked yet so you can come up with some.
This might not happen because the 11 is such a popular route NX wouldn't want to chop it up. Plus people would probably be angry that the "longest route in Europe" is dead or whatever but something needs to be done ASAP.
Most logical way of splitting the 11 would be operate it Bearwood-Acocks Green, rather than anything else
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 20, 2019, 04:10:33 PM
Route 2 will be Perry Barr to Selly Oak via Handsworth, Winson Green, City Hospital, Bearwood and Harborne. This route can be extended to Weoley Castle, Shenley Fields and Northfield.
Is it necessary for it to go to Weoley Castle? The X21 already covers the University - Selly Oak - Weoley Castle link. Surely you can change at Selly Oak for the X21.
Quote from: 2206 on November 20, 2019, 04:57:21 PM
Is it necessary for it to go to Weoley Castle? The X21 already covers the University - Selly Oak - Weoley Castle link. Surely you can change at Selly Oak for the X21.
No it isn't.
Quote from: Crosville on November 20, 2019, 04:29:21 PM
Most logical way of splitting the 11 would be operate it Bearwood-Acocks Green, rather than anything else
Bearwood to Acocks Green via Harborne, Selly Oak and Kings Heath or via Handsworth, Perry Barr and Erdington?
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 20, 2019, 05:23:46 PM
Bearwood to Acocks Green via Harborne, Selly Oak and Kings Heath or via Handsworth, Perry Barr and Erdington?
What happens to all the hundreds of passengers who travel through those two places?
I think the solution is for better infrastructure along the route through bus priority measures. The 11 is a very busy route. The current fleet value on that route must be around £5million so imagine the revenue and passenger numbers!
This is a route that tends to get forgotten about in favour of all the routes going into
City Centre. It's been operated with sheds for a number of years until now, when it probably carries more passengers than plenty of other City serving routes. I'm not sure what the situation is at Bromford, but that was always a hotspot for traffic along the route.
Somebody mentioned Soho Road earlier on. Soho Road at the junction with Rookery Road was problematic due to the short cycle on the lights. You could just about get there buses through a green light before it turned red, and that's without cars in the traffic! Whether it's changed or not, I don't know. Dudley Road was a nightmare as you depart City Hospital and attempt to turn right, bringing Dudley Road to a standstill because nobody would let you out! Only the 82/87s would let you out there... Selly Oak with its constant roadworks at the Sainsbury's. There's still works going on there today!
There's just far too much unpredictable traffic along the 11, because it depends on the major roads leading into City Centre. Some days it can operate perfectly, others it can fall apart completely!
Quote from: MW on November 20, 2019, 06:12:58 PM
This is a route that tends to get forgotten about in favour of all the routes going into
City Centre. It's been operated with sheds for a number of years until now, when it probably carries more passengers than plenty of other City serving routes. I'm not sure what the situation is at Bromford, but that was always a hotspot for traffic along the route.
Somebody mentioned Soho Road earlier on. Soho Road at the junction with Rookery Road was problematic due to the short cycle on the lights. You could just about get there buses through a green light before it turned red, and that's without cars in the traffic! Whether it's changed or not, I don't know. Dudley Road was a nightmare as you depart City Hospital and attempt to turn right, bringing Dudley Road to a standstill because nobody would let you out! Only the 82/87s would let you out there... Selly Oak with its constant roadworks at the Sainsbury's. There's still works going on there today!
Stechford Lane and Station Road is probably another traffic hotspot aswell, as there is also constant roadworks and congestion going through there.
The 55 was rerouted a few months back to go straight onto Coleshill Road at Fox & Goose, no longer serving Stechford Lane because the roadworks and congestion were making the service unreliable, but the 11 still runs through there.
Quote from: Tony on November 20, 2019, 05:51:20 PM
What happens to all the hundreds of passengers who travel through those two places?
Don't ask me,
@Crosville suggested it. I was just asking what side would it operate?
Quote from: 2206 on November 20, 2019, 06:25:28 PM
Stechford Lane and Station Road is probably another traffic hotspot aswell, as there is also constant roadworks and congestion going through there.
The 55 was rerouted a few months back to go straight onto Coleshill Road at Fox & Goose, no longer serving Stechford Lane because the roadworks and congestion were making the service unreliable, but the 11 still runs through there.
The reason that there is so much traffic in Stechford is because they are doing works there where they are making Station Road dual carriageway, making the bridge bigger and replacing the old traffic light system with a roundabout. These works should be finished by the end of next year so these changes to the road will hopefully improve the traffic there.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 20, 2019, 04:10:33 PM
Just seen a post on this forum complaining about the 11 Outer Circle. The 11 as it is struggles with reliability because it runs down the A4040 as it passes by major roads. What needs to happen is that the 11 needs to be split into several routes which will hopefully improve the reliabilty.
Route 1 will be Acocks Green to Perry Barr via Yardley, Ward End, Erdington and Witton.
Route 2 will be Perry Barr to Selly Oak via Handsworth, Winson Green, City Hospital, Bearwood and Harborne. This route can be extended to Weoley Castle, Shenley Fields and Northfield.
And route 3 will cover the rest of the existing 11 route from Selly Oak to Acocks Green via Cotteridge, Kings Heath, Billesley and Hall Green.
The numbers of the routes I haven't picked yet so you can come up with some.
This might not happen because the 11 is such a popular route NX wouldn't want to chop it up. Plus people would probably be angry that the "longest route in Europe" is dead or whatever but something needs to be done ASAP.
That is pretty similar to an idea I had myself a while back, though I wasn't 100% sure on the best points to split the route.
Unless some serious bus priority measures can be put in place, and something done about awful traffic congestion and lack of parking enforcement, the 11 is just going to become even more unreliable and unsustainable in its present form.
Yes, I know the 'Outer Circle' is an iconic route, and I for one would like it to be retained, but I think we have to start being realistic, and come up with practical ways to ensure that this route survives in some form, even if in three pieces.
Part of the problem will be determining suitable terminus and turning points, in order to allow passengers smooth onwards journey transitions.
One alteration to suggestions 2 and 3 would be to have the routes terminate at the QE Hospital rather than Selly Oak, I don't know how the bus interchange there would cope or if it would be suitable for a high frequency service, just putting it out there. I don't see the point of extending it to Northfield, unless it was to replace part of some other route, perhaps the 27?
Quote from: 2206 on November 20, 2019, 06:25:28 PM
Stechford Lane and Station Road is probably another traffic hotspot aswell, as there is also constant roadworks and congestion going through there.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 20, 2019, 07:32:33 PM
The reason that there is so much traffic in Stechford is because they are doing works there where they are making Station Road dual carriageway, making the bridge bigger and replacing the old traffic light system with a roundabout. These works should be finished by the end of next year so these changes to the road will hopefully improve the traffic there.
But the problem is that roadworks elsewhere will pop up, its a never-ending story!
Major roadworks in Selly Oak, major roadworks in Stechford, and major roadworks to come in Perry Barr, now that should be fun when those get started!
Quote from: Stu on November 20, 2019, 07:37:16 PM
That is pretty similar to an idea I had myself a while back, though I wasn't 100% sure on the best points to split the route.
Unless some serious bus priority measures can be put in place, and something done about awful traffic congestion and lack of parking enforcement, the 11 is just going to become even more unreliable and unsustainable in its present form.
Yes, I know the 'Outer Circle' is an iconic route, and I for one would like it to be retained, but I think we have to start being realistic, and come up with practical ways to ensure that this route survives in some form, even if in three pieces.
Part of the problem will be determining suitable terminus and turning points, in order to allow passengers smooth onwards journey transitions.
One alteration to suggestions 2 and 3 would be to have the routes terminate at the QE Hospital rather than Selly Oak, I don't know how the bus interchange there would cope or if it would be suitable for a high frequency service, just putting it out there. I don't see the point of extending it to Northfield, unless it was to replace part of some other route, perhaps the 27?
Isn't the Q.E bus interchange full enough already? I'm pretty sure that's the reason why the X20/21/22 doesn't stop there.
Quote from: Stu on November 20, 2019, 07:40:02 PM
But the problem is that roadworks elsewhere will pop up, its a never-ending story!
Major roadworks in Selly Oak, major roadworks in Stechford, and major roadworks to come in Perry Barr, now that should be fun when those get started!
The good thing is at least the Selly Oak and the Stechford works ends next year!!
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:39 PM
Isn't the Q.E bus interchange full enough already? I'm pretty sure that's the reason why the X20/21/22 doesn't stop there.
Normally full of Private Hire Cars!
Quote from: Tony on November 20, 2019, 07:46:12 PM
Normally full of Private Hire Cars!
Why are they there for?
For the outer circle, keep it as it is, but introduce shorts which start somewhere off the circle, finish somewhere on the circle and calling into places just off the circle en route (for example a SWL service running from West Heath and calling in at the QE, terminating at somewhere like Bearwood or city hospital) with a 20 min frequency.
Quote from: Busboy105 on November 20, 2019, 08:21:09 PM
Why are they there for?
Presumably to pick up and drop off visitors to the hospital.
Quote from: Stu on November 20, 2019, 07:40:02 PM
But the problem is that roadworks elsewhere will pop up, its a never-ending story!
Major roadworks in Selly Oak, major roadworks in Stechford, and major roadworks to come in Perry Barr, now that should be fun when those get started!
From what I've seen with regards to how it may look when the Selly Oak Triangle is completed though it should benefit the buses greatly.
What is the PVR for the 11, splitting the route would mean either same allocation or more buses, definitely need overlaps with through passengers, adding more buses costs more, i read on another forum it can cost something around £100,000 to register one extra bus alone
Quote from: Crosville on November 22, 2019, 05:44:44 PM
What is the PVR for the 11, splitting the route would mean either same allocation or more buses, definitely need overlaps with through passengers, adding more buses costs more, i read on another forum it can cost something around £100,000 to register one extra bus alone
I don't know the exact figure but my best estimate would be a PVR of 40-45 vehicles for the 11A/C services.
There would need to be some detailed research done in order to determine the best way to split the route, this would have to be done on passenger usage statistics, though whichever way it is done, there are always going to be some passengers who will become inconvenienced.
I also don't know about that figure quoted just to register an extra bus, Tony will be the best person to answer that one, I would imagine it doesn't cost any more to register an extra vehicle for a service, but obviously the cost of operating that service would increase as the number of vehicles required increased.
Quote from: Stu on November 22, 2019, 06:38:40 PM
I don't know the exact figure but my best estimate would be a PVR of 40-45 vehicles for the 11A/C services.
There would need to be some detailed research done in order to determine the best way to split the route, this would have to be done on passenger usage statistics, though whichever way it is done, there are always going to be some passengers who will become inconvenienced.
I also don't know about that figure quoted just to register an extra bus, Tony will be the best person to answer that one, I would imagine it doesn't cost any more to register an extra vehicle for a service, but obviously the cost of operating that service would increase as the number of vehicles required increased.
Yes an extra bus can easily cost over £100,000. One bus out for 15 hours a day 6 days a week needs 2.5 extra drivers employed, Doesn't need much other cost to get into 6 figures.
I've set up a new thread below & moved all the BCC / Ludlows / Blackheath services & TfWM bits debate, as it's now gone way off the above topic:
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=5586.0
I'm surprised they haven't shortened the 33 to terminate down at the Buffet Island instead of at Collingwood, the number of times the locals have attacked the buses there is just increasing. Had one person on a bike try and force open the emergency exit on the 997 while it was laying over a few weeks ago.
Would a Dudley to Kidderminster route work? Just popped up in my head. Kidderminster isn't far from Dudley yet it doesn't have a link to it.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 06, 2019, 06:02:47 PM
Would a Dudley to Kidderminster route work? Just popped up in my head. Kidderminster isn't far from Dudley yet it doesn't have a link to it.
Midland Red West tried a 285 I think it was after Digbeth closed it didnt last long
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 06, 2019, 06:35:34 PM
Midland Red West tried a 285 I think it was after Digbeth closed it didnt last long
i know Diamond tried a Birmingham-Kidderminster link(the 192) but it also didnt last long. It now only operates between Halesowen and Kidderminster.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 06, 2019, 07:26:19 PM
i know Diamond tried a Birmingham-Kidderminster link(the 192) but it also didnt last long. It now only operates between Halesowen and Kidderminster.
This was about 20 years it was to get the 123 & 208 drivers to Kiddy Garage after Digbeth closed.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 06, 2019, 06:02:47 PM
Would a Dudley to Kidderminster route work? Just popped up in my head. Kidderminster isn't far from Dudley yet it doesn't have a link to it.
merry hill to kiddiminster might work
Quote from: karl724223 on December 06, 2019, 10:30:21 PM
merry hill to kiddiminster might work
Didnt Whittles try this with the X95 ?
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 06, 2019, 10:48:56 PM
Didnt Whittles try this with the X95 ?
I'm sure the x95 terminated at Franche. Or was that the MRD version?
I know Hanson's did a 252 Merry Hill to Kiddy sat/sun service which did 3 return trips (and went via the Norton Estate) at one stage
And didn't MRW do a 234 service which had a few extensions from stourbridge to Kiddy as well (doubling back along Worcester Street in Stourbridge)
Quote from: the trainbasher on December 07, 2019, 12:26:40 AM
I'm sure the x95 terminated at Franche. Or was that the MRD version?
I know Hanson's did a 252 Merry Hill to Kiddy sat/sun service which did 3 return trips (and went via the Norton Estate) at one stage
And didn't MRW do a 234 service which had a few extensions from stourbridge to Kiddy as well (doubling back along Worcester Street in Stourbridge)
That was it the 234 your quite right I am sure Whittles ran a bus from.Bridgnorth to Alverley to Kidderminster to Merry Hill at some point unless I am mistaken
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 07, 2019, 12:35:52 AM
That was it the 234 your quite right I am sure Whittles ran a bus from.Bridgnorth to Alverley to Kidderminster to Merry Hill at some point unless I am mistaken
Can recall doing in around 1999/2000 the MRW 285 service (I think) from Dudley to Kidderminster on one of their Lances, can't recall the exact route, possibly through Netherton, Merry Hill and Stourbridge. Can't remember how often it ran by then, wasn't very frequent. Think that might have been the last Dudley to Kiddy service.
Quote from: Cheese on December 07, 2019, 09:47:19 AM
Can recall doing in around 1999/2000 the MRW 285 service (I think) from Dudley to Kidderminster on one of their Lances, can't recall the exact route, possibly through Netherton, Merry Hill and Stourbridge. Can't remember how often it ran by then, wasn't very frequent. Think that might have been the last Dudley to Kiddy service.
Looking at my MRW timetable book for 1997, that has a 234 Kidderminster-Dudley via Hagley-Stourbridge-Wollaston-Brierley Hill-Merry Hill-Netherton this was hourly, first services from 09.30am until 2pm the last journey's around 4.30pm[last through journey 2pm] Monday to Friday, little bit more journey's on Saturdays 7.30am until 5.30pm
Quote from: Crosville on December 07, 2019, 11:09:29 AM
Looking at my MRW timetable book for 1997, that has a 234 Kidderminster-Dudley via Hagley-Stourbridge-Wollaston-Brierley Hill-Merry Hill-Netherton this was hourly, first services from 09.30am until 2pm the last journey's around 4.30pm[last through journey 2pm] Monday to Friday, little bit more journey's on Saturdays 7.30am until 5.30pm
Thats all very interesting thank you I can.only ever remember using once with a Midwest Day Rover Ticket they really great value and valid from Blackheath on 123 & 124.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 07, 2019, 11:15:03 AM
Thats all very interesting thank you I can.only ever remember using once with a Midwest Day Rover Ticket they really great value and valid from Blackheath on 123 & 124.
The 285 was running around 2001 to 2002 as I remember using it from Merry Hill to Kidderminster around 5pm ish.
Didn't the 285 run via Hagley and Blakedown.
The Midwest rover certainly was good value. Remember doing a day our on the 192 to Hereford, 420 from Hereford to Worcester, 294 from Worcester to Kidderminster and then a 192 back home.
Quote from: sonic84 on December 07, 2019, 11:31:06 AM
The 285 was running around 2001 to 2002 as I remember using it from Merry Hill to Kidderminster around 5pm ish.
Didn't the 285 run via Hagley and Blakedown.
The Midwest rover certainly was good value. Remember doing a day our on the 192 to Hereford, 420 from Hereford to Worcester, 294 from Worcester to Kidderminster and then a 192 back home.
Sonic84 remember that so well did it many times until a few years ago I could get from Halesowen to Kington and then just pay £1.90 single to Llandrindod Wells to my cousin with a First Day ticket with 147 to Worcester, 420 to Hereford & as it was a tender service HCC had an agreement to use it on Sargents 461 as FMR also had a Saturday tender on the route happy times.
Quote from: sonic84 on December 07, 2019, 11:31:06 AM
The 285 was running around 2001 to 2002 as I remember using it from Merry Hill to Kidderminster around 5pm ish.
Didn't the 285 run via Hagley and Blakedown.
The Midwest rover certainly was good value. Remember doing a day our on the 192 to Hereford, 420 from Hereford to Worcester, 294 from Worcester to Kidderminster and then a 192 back home.
Just found my Jan 2002 MRW guide for Wyre Forest and the 285 was indeed still running then, went via Hagley and Blakedown. The last bus was at 5 from Merry Hill to Kidderminster from the timetable, 4-6 journeys per day depending on direction. Think I must have done the 1150 from Dudley to Kidderminster before a Kidderminster Harriers home game.
If I had the change to chane a route I would change the 228 to make it a Kinver-Dudley via Stourbridge, Merry Hill and Russells Hall Hospital Service. Also the 250 to also included Norton as that would make sense as the 251 also does Norton.
The 17A to include the part of the 5 between Stourbridge and Kingswinford. This meaning the 5 would go to the cross and turn directly onto the High Street instead of continuing along Summer hill.
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on December 08, 2019, 11:54:33 AM
If I had the change to chane a route I would change the 228 to make it a Kinver-Dudley via Stourbridge, Merry Hill and Russells Hall Hospital Service. Also the 250 to also included Norton as that would make sense as the 251 also does Norton.
The 17A to include the part of the 5 between Stourbridge and Kingswinford. This meaning the 5 would go to the cross and turn directly onto the High Street instead of continuing along Summer hill.
And what benefit would that give? The 5 and 17A serve estates on different sides of Stream Road. Changing the 5 would then lose the service to Stourbridge in Mount Pleasant, Cot Lane, Balmoral Road and Ashwood Park, well used areas in the context of the service. What would the 17A become? Just a loop around Wall Heath that offers no connections to the passengers who live in Maidendale Road, Brinley Way, Frayne Avenue? They have no other service than the 17A.
Quote from: Dom on December 08, 2019, 03:26:12 PM
And what benefit would that give? The 5 and 17A serve estates on different sides of Stream Road. Changing the 5 would then lose the service to Stourbridge in Mount Pleasant, Cot Lane, Balmoral Road and Ashwood Park, well used areas in the context of the service. What would the 17A become? Just a loop around Wall Heath that offers no connections to the passengers who live in Maidendale Road, Brinley Way, Frayne Avenue? They have no other service than the 17A.
don't upset him
@Dom
Quote from: karl724223 on December 08, 2019, 04:26:43 PM
don't upset him @Dom
The 17A would directly replace the 5 with the 17A also doing what it dorles curently.
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on December 08, 2019, 06:26:55 PM
The 17A would directly replace the 5 with the 17A also doing what it dorles curently.
What the bloody hell would be the point of that? Completely uneducated suggestion. If you work in 'route planning' as you say you do, you'd be the sort of person your friend
@richardjones210368 is complaining about...
Quote from: Dom on December 08, 2019, 06:34:50 PM
What the bloody hell would be the point of that? Completely uneducated suggestion. If you work in 'route planning' as you say you do, you'd be the sort of person your friend @richardjones210368 is complaining about...
Nothing will change during the current tender a very good business case was put forward by NXWM & accepted.
Quote from: Dom on December 08, 2019, 06:34:50 PM
What the bloody hell would be the point of that? Completely uneducated suggestion. If you work in 'route planning' as you say you do, you'd be the sort of person your friend @richardjones210368 is complaining about...
It would mean that the 5 wouldn't be as unreliable during peak times as it could be now as it would take a more faster route that it does now. Hence why the 17A would replace the 5 on summer hill and roads like that.
As this thread is rapidly getting out of control again, may I please remind ALL members of the FORUM RULES (http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=4859.0) and to refrain from making personal attacks, and to keep the thread on-topic.
Quote from: Dom on December 08, 2019, 06:34:50 PM
What the bloody hell would be the point of that? Completely uneducated suggestion. If you work in 'route planning' as you say you do, you'd be the sort of person your friend @richardjones210368 is complaining about...
I didn't say I work in route planning. I just put things right that are wrong on the area maps.
I see Laurel and Hardy have taken over this thread as well 🤔
I just realised that since the old 98 was withdrawn and replaced, there's no link from Rubery Great Park to Birmingham. Is this because there is low demand? I've always thought that there would at least some people who would go there instead of going to town.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 09, 2019, 08:41:46 AM
I just realised that since the old 98 was withdrawn and replaced, there's no link from Rubery Great Park to Birmingham. Is this because there is low demand? I've always thought that there would at least some people who would go there instead of going to town.
If you want to go there 'instead of town' you don't need a bus from town!
Quote from: Tony on December 09, 2019, 08:44:30 AM
If you want to go there 'instead of town' you don't need a bus from town!
There is a bus from town to Great Park all be it the 144 or the 63. Although they don't actually serve the Great Park they instead serve the stops on the main road.
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on December 09, 2019, 09:04:57 AM
There is a bus from town to Great Park all be it the 144 or the 63. Although they don't actually serve the Great Park they instead serve the stops on the main road.
Yes and given the 144 gets to Great Park at lot quicker than the 63 its even more shocking the frequency cuts to it from 26th January I use it regularly and never empty but thats First! The 98 was also always busy and usefull for changing onto the 99 at the QE now its 144 - 1 to Five Ways for the X8 where I usually find that..........
(No perhaps better to not mention that perhaps.)
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 09, 2019, 11:36:12 AM
Yes and given the 144 gets to Great Park at lot quicker than the 63 its even more shocking the frequency cuts to it from 26th January I use it regularly and never empty but thats First! The 98 was also always busy and usefull for changing onto the 99 at the QE now its 144 - 1 to Five Ways for the X8 where I usually find that..........
(No perhaps better to not mention that perhaps.)
What frequency cuts are these, and to which service?
Quote from: sonic84 on December 09, 2019, 05:34:10 PM
What frequency cuts are these, and to which service?
144 cut to every 60 to 90 mins in TfWM area from 26/1/20 full details on First Midland Red Wyvern Buses Worcester pages of the forum or whatever Salty name First are calling Midland Red West this week.
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on December 08, 2019, 06:56:47 PM
It would mean that the 5 wouldn't be as unreliable during peak times as it could be now as it would take a more faster route that it does now. Hence why the 17A would replace the 5 on summer hill and roads like that.
And would mean the quieter estates would get an evening peak service that isn't required, whilst the estates that are busy and bring on passengers lose their peak service? Again flawed logic.
Quote from: Dom on December 08, 2019, 06:34:50 PM
What the bloody hell would be the point of that? Completely uneducated suggestion. If you work in 'route planning' as you say you do, you'd be the sort of person your friend @richardjones210368 is complaining about...
Why would I complain about a logical switch and something to be reviewed at the next round of tendering the (20)5 has and still does when I use it from my partners mum.suffer from reliability issues due to the heavy traffic levels if switched the peak pattern could be adjusted with the 17A replaced with a 5 5A 5B anythings worth considering as we have seen with West Dudley Review which I still think is sound and most cost effective in such a difficult bus opetating area but nothing will happen with the 5 & 17A till the next tender review.
This used to be a nice jovial 'bit of fun' thread. May I please remind members of the opening post of this topic?
Quote from: Alex on November 15, 2014, 06:30:12 PM
Title says it all, really
Money or patronage is no issue here as it's just for fun, so have at it :)
Can we please keep this thread 'on-topic' and keep it to making suggestions for service modifications, and comments on those suggestions?If you're going to make a suggestion that others will consider silly, then expect a bit of ridicule, but let's keep it civil and jovial. Arguments and bickering achieve nothing.
For any other discussions, please find a more appropriate thread to post in, or start your own.
Quote from: Stu on December 09, 2019, 06:55:14 PM
This used to be a nice jovial 'bit of fun' thread. May I please remind members of the opening post of this topic?
Can we please keep this thread 'on-topic' and keep it to making suggestions for service modifications, and comments on those suggestions?
If you're going to make a suggestion that others will consider silly, then expect a bit of ridicule, but let's keep it civil and jovial. Arguments and bickering achieve nothing.
For any other discussions, please find a more appropriate thread to post in, or start your own.
Apologies if you misunderstood my defence Stu in the comment made towards me by
@Dom I was simply saying the posters comments on me were incorrect the current tenders were awarded on a business case forwarded by NXWM and accepted by TfWM when the tenders are next up to be awarded all options will be on table again it is up to the operators to either tender for the contracts on offer by TfWM or submit thier own business case on an alternative. Whatever option accepted by TfWM I would fully suppport being part of the decision making process.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 09, 2019, 05:36:27 PM
144 cut to every 60 to 90 mins in TfWM area from 26/1/20 full details on First Midland Red Wyvern Buses Worcester pages of the forum or whatever Salty name First are calling Midland Red West this week.
Surely the 144 terminating on the outskirts of the City Centre and not going up to the Priory Queensway with NXWM's Bristol Road and University corridors and in addition not stopping anywhere near them in the City Centre, can't help this route either.
When i'm on Moor Street, I wouldn't consider walking all the way to the 144 terminus when I can catch an NX service from outside of the station.
Quote from: 2206 on December 09, 2019, 07:11:02 PM
Surely the 144 terminating on the outskirts of the City Centre and not going up to the Priory Queensway with NXWM's Bristol Road and University corridors and in addition not stopping anywhere near them in the City Centre, can't help this route either.
I do not think that makes any difference as it historically ran from the Bull Ring Bus Station anyway and NXWM Travelcard holders will never use it, the service has always been stand alone it isn't failing I have to stand up usually on it its being cut I understand as FirstGroup PLC wish to reduce the PVR of First Midland Red Buses Ltd.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 09, 2019, 07:16:52 PM
I do not think that makes any difference as it historically ran from the Bull Ring Bus Station anyway and NXWM Travelcard holders will never use it.
I've seen people paying with cash/contactless board at Priory Queensway/Moor Street/St Martins Queensway. Its not just NXWM Travelcard holders who use the 61/63 and X20/X21.
I doubt anyone going to Selly Oak or Northfield would find it convenient to have to go to the outskirts of the City Centre, when the NX services stop much closer to them.
Quote from: 2206 on December 09, 2019, 07:23:43 PM
I've seen people paying with cash/contactless board at Priory Queensway/Moor Street/St Martins Queensway. Its not just NXWM Travelcard holders who use the 61/63 and X20/X21.
I doubt anyone going to Selly Oak or Northfield would find it convenient to have to go to the outskirts of the City Centre, when the NX services stop much closer to them.
Remember its also Limited Stop why would the 144 want the local Bristol Rd market would it not put off longer distance passengers remember the WMPTE Travelcard restrictions on Midland Red services as I post the service isn't failing its being cut I believe due to FirstGroup corporate policies.
One route I and many West Brom drivers wouldn't mind being altered is the 44 as in its current format it only takes 25 mins to do a trip and some duties you end up doing 9/10 trips in one go which can be a bit repetitive. (possibly the shortest route on NX books). My idea would be to extended it to Wednesbury, from Harvills Hawthorn it would go down Holloway Bank but instead of going right at the island to follow the 79 have it continue straight down and serve by the Metro stop on Great Western Street before going into Wednesbury bus Station. It would provide a link between Harvills estate and Wednesbury and also provide a link for the metro as it can be a bit of a walk from the bus station for the less able people.
Quote from: WB Driver on December 10, 2019, 07:13:09 PM
One route I and many West Brom drivers wouldn't mind being altered is the 44 as in its current format it only takes 25 mins to do a trip and some duties you end up doing 9/10 trips in one go which can be a bit repetitive. (possibly the shortest route on NX books). My idea would be to extended it to Wednesbury, from Harvills Hawthorn it would go down Holloway Bank but instead of going right at the island to follow the 79 have it continue straight down and serve by the Metro stop on Great Western Street before going into Wednesbury bus Station. It would provide a link between Harvills estate and Wednesbury and also provide a link for the metro as it can be a bit of a walk from the bus station for the less able people.
Will it still be a circular service or will it just be West Brom to Wednesbury.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 10, 2019, 10:57:09 PM
Will it still be a circular service or will it just be West Brom to Wednesbury.
Presumably West Brom to Wednesbury and do the loop or Harvills in both direction.
Yes would do the Harvills estate in both directions.
Quote from: WB Driver on December 10, 2019, 07:13:09 PM
One route I and many West Brom drivers wouldn't mind being altered is the 44 as in its current format it only takes 25 mins to do a trip and some duties you end up doing 9/10 trips in one go which can be a bit repetitive. (possibly the shortest route on NX books). My idea would be to extended it to Wednesbury, from Harvills Hawthorn it would go down Holloway Bank but instead of going right at the island to follow the 79 have it continue straight down and serve by the Metro stop on Great Western Street before going into Wednesbury bus Station. It would provide a link between Harvills estate and Wednesbury and also provide a link for the metro as it can be a bit of a walk from the bus station for the less able people.
Another option if the buses used fitted around the estate would be to extend the 89 from West Bromwich to Harvills Hawthorn as they both operate a 30 minute frequency and on my calculation could be done with 5 buses outside of peak in total.
Id have some 63 journeys renumbered to 62 and divert them to extend down to Catshill and Bromsgrove, possibly every 20-30 mins, providing a NX alternative to the 144.
I'd also divert one 45 a hour to extend to Redditch as to provide a bus alternative to the 146. Maybe number it 44 or 46?
Finally i would extend the 20 to Nuneaton as to compete against Stagecoach
Quote from: sryan188 on December 11, 2019, 10:48:44 PM
Another option if the buses used fitted around the estate would be to extend the 89 from West Bromwich to Harvills Hawthorn as they both operate a 30 minute frequency and on my calculation could be done with 5 buses outside of peak in total.
Would Omnilinks be able to do the 44 route?
Quote from: the trainbasher on December 11, 2019, 11:19:41 PM
Id have some 63 journeys renumbered to 62 and divert them to extend down to Catshill and Bromsgrove, possibly every 20-30 mins, providing a NX alternative to the 144.
I'd also divert one 45 a hour to extend to Redditch as to provide a bus alternative to the 146. Maybe number it 44 or 46?
Finally i would extend the 20 to Nuneaton as to compete against Stagecoach
I like the 63 change but wouldn't that just kill off the 144? Since it's frequency will be reduced and NXWM being more popular than First in Birmingham, wouldn't that be the end of the 144?
Quote from: Sh4318 on December 11, 2019, 11:20:56 PM
Would Omnilinks be able to do the 44 route?
Don't think so. The 44 uses the smaller E200s at WB.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 12, 2019, 08:09:12 AM
I like the 63 change but wouldn't that just kill off the 144? Since it's frequency will be reduced and NXWM being more popular than First in Birmingham, wouldn't that be the end of the 144?
Well isn't first doing that all by themselves? Plus, to me, it's a logical extension based on what NX have been doing to the likes of the WA10 and x2
Quote from: the trainbasher on December 12, 2019, 08:15:34 AM
Well isn't first doing that all by themselves? Plus, to me, it's a logical extension based on what NX have been doing to the likes of the WA10 and x2
I think you mean X3 not X2. But that would be a good idea for NX to get more customers.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 12, 2019, 08:47:02 AM
I think you mean X3 not X2. But that would be a good idea for NX to get more customers.
Yeah I meant x3 (brain got fuzzed with all this polling and heading to work to cover a short staffing there lol)
Quote from: Sh4318 on December 11, 2019, 11:20:56 PM
Would Omnilinks be able to do the 44 route?
No, it's get sticky around the Harvills, I'm sure they've put LWB ones on their at times. Even wen the route went to Tipton it was Stumpy E200's and prior to them, the ALX200 Darts.
Since the WB89 got rerouted to West Bromwich, the Dudley Road-Cape Hill-Londonderry-Smethwick link to Blackheath has gone so here's my proposal.
Bring back the 83 and run it between Birmingham and Dudley following the old 89 route to Blackheath then extending it to Dudley via Rowley Regis Hospital which gives it a more frequent link to Dudley rather than the PN24. It will run up to 20 minutes Mon to Sat daytimes, 30 minutes on a Sunday and hourly throughout the night with short journeys at Blackheath.
My only doubt is that this route will need double deckers considering that it will run along the Dudley Road corridor and I'm not sure if double deckers are suitable for RRH.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 13, 2019, 07:44:04 AM
Since the WB89 got rerouted to West Bromwich, the Dudley Road-Cape Hill-Londonderry-Smethwick link to Blackheath has gone so here's my proposal.
Bring back the 83 and run it between Birmingham and Dudley following the old 89 route to Blackheath then extending it to Dudley via Rowley Regis Hospital which gives it a more frequent link to Dudley rather than the PN24. It will run up to 20 minutes Mon to Sat daytimes, 30 minutes on a Sunday and hourly throughout the night with short journeys at Blackheath.
My only doubt is that this route will need double deckers considering that it will run along the Dudley Road corridor and I'm not sure if double deckers are suitable for RRH.
I'm fairly sure that the majority of that section (Londonerry is already covered and that part of Smethwick). The second option you made is again is.a little pointless. Dudley to RRH needs a service, Birmingham doesn't need to be covered. I take it you don't know that area well because what way would you send it to Dudley? And Deckers can get round RRH.
Quote from: Jack on December 13, 2019, 07:49:29 AM
I'm fairly sure that the majority of that section (Londonerry is already covered and that part of Smethwick). The second option you made is again is.a little pointless. Dudley to RRH needs a service, Birmingham doesn't need to be covered. I take it you don't know that area well because what way would you send it to Dudley? And Deckers can get round RRH.
Probably the PN24 route.
Quote from: Jack on December 13, 2019, 07:49:29 AM
I'm fairly sure that the majority of that section (Londonerry is already covered and that part of Smethwick). The second option you made is again is.a little pointless. Dudley to RRH needs a service, Birmingham doesn't need to be covered. I take it you don't know that area well because what way would you send it to Dudley? And Deckers can get round RRH.
Double Deckers can use Rowley Regis Hospital and Tridents were regulars on the 238. The route suggestion was more or less tried by Little Red Bus as its 99 to Blackheath. At least it would be an option in Brum to save keep waiting and waiting for an X8 that will never come and a nice day out touring Warley & Smethwick.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 13, 2019, 08:34:19 AM
Double Deckers can use Rowley Regis Hospital and Tridents were regulars on the 238. The route suggestion was more or less tried by Little Red Bus as its 99 to Blackheath. At least it would be an option in Brum to save keep waiting and waiting for an X8 that will never come and a nice day out touring Warley & Smethwick.
Yes, Deckers were used regularly on the 289 as well when it went Rowley Regis Hospital. But then people would moan the X8 takes forever to get to Birmingham going through the Warley and Smethwick, before even getting there. I'd imagine people from Blackheath, Rowley Village and the Dudley Road would stop using it altogether travelling towards Birmingham and change at Blaclheath to the 13A.
Quote from: Jack on December 13, 2019, 07:49:29 AM
I'm fairly sure that the majority of that section (Londonerry is already covered and that part of Smethwick). The second option you made is again is.a little pointless. Dudley to RRH needs a service, Birmingham doesn't need to be covered. I take it you don't know that area well because what way would you send it to Dudley? And Deckers can get round RRH.
What if it went to Oldbury/West Bromwich instead? Preferably West Bromwich because it can connect with a lot of different services and it will create a new West Brom-Dudley link even if it won't be as popular as the 42 or the 74.
Quote from: sryan188 on December 11, 2019, 10:48:44 PM
Another option if the buses used fitted around the estate would be to extend the 89 from West Bromwich to Harvills Hawthorn as they both operate a 30 minute frequency and on my calculation could be done with 5 buses outside of peak in total.
Biggest bus you'd get round that would be an E200 and as the 89 uses scanias/DD they wouldn't fit.
Reroute the Arriva 2 in the Blakenall/Harden area, by using Solos & diverting via the 25 route, including serving Well Lane, the Forest loop & Goscote.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 13, 2019, 07:44:04 AM
Since the WB89 got rerouted to West Bromwich, the Dudley Road-Cape Hill-Londonderry-Smethwick link to Blackheath has gone so here's my proposal.
Bring back the 83 and run it between Birmingham and Dudley following the old 89 route to Blackheath then extending it to Dudley via Rowley Regis Hospital which gives it a more frequent link to Dudley rather than the PN24. It will run up to 20 minutes Mon to Sat daytimes, 30 minutes on a Sunday and hourly throughout the night with short journeys at Blackheath.
My only doubt is that this route will need double deckers considering that it will run along the Dudley Road corridor and I'm not sure if double deckers are suitable for RRH.
I don't think this link is required in all honesty. Londonderry have had a direct link to Blackheath several times in the past, it's not much hassle to change at either Oldbury and West Bromwich, then change onto the frequent 4/4H/4M
Quote from: Sh4318 on December 14, 2019, 01:19:55 PM
I don't think this link is required in all honesty. Londonderry have had a direct link to Blackheath several times in the past, it's not much hassle to change at either Oldbury and West Bromwich, then change onto the frequent 4/4H/4M
Longest lasting 88 which at one piont carried on to Dudley
From
@Busboy105 We all know how much you despise the NX Hagley Road routes (you don't seem to give any solutions just complain) the works would just create chaos. With the underpass not opening again being a possibility, that's a risk that can't be taken.
P.S does anybody know when the Wolves works finish?
From
@richardjones210368 The solution to Hagley Road is simple:
The X10 continues unchanged.
The X8 is rerouted from Dudley to run via the 126 every 10 Min's from Dudley To Birmingham and be all stops to The Warley Bowel and then follow the existing Limited Stop Service into Birmingham far more suitable than using The Rowley Road & Long Lane removing the need for the Stourbridge 8 which doesn't appear popular on the forum.
The section of route between Dudley & Birmingham of the X8 becomes a 9A running half hourly to all stops. in a similar pattern to the former 140.
The 9A would be run from Pensnett Garage and would offer additional capacity to the 9 which would only need a slight PVR adjustment as some of the 9s are rammed full in the peaks since its frequency cut.
The 24 would be curtailed to run Cradley Heath to Dudley allowing it to be rerouted in Blackheath via Henderson Way & Birmingham Road to serve The Ashley in Blackheath and not via Siviters Lane to maintain 3 buses per hour along Rowley Road and 4 still to The Cock with 14A. The 24 and the 14A would have greater patronage and may be able to become commercial with the extra traffic.
Outside of the peaks the half hourly 13A would operate to a fitted timetable with the 9A to allow a service every 15 Minuets from Colmore Row & Five Ways to Blackheath, a simple adjustment to the 13 is all that is needed.
Wolverhampton keeps its Platinum service to Birmingham via Birmingham New Rd, Blackheath gets an off peak fitted 15 min frequency to Birmingham with 9A & 13A with extra capacity for the 9 between Colmore Row & Quinton Classic Cinema there is no change to the PVR & we all get a reliable service back along Hagley Road compered with the utter rot that exists now its SIMPLES
@richardjones210368 - Please don't post the same reply in 4 different threads, please chose the most appropriate thread & post there. You'd already alerted Busboy to your reply by using '@', Winston
Sorry
@Winston I did not realise using the "@" would alert the poster, I know now apologies as I thought I had to post it in all the threads that's another thing I have learnt now you are an expert on these things what are your views on my thoughts on the X8 conundrum & they are not a moan but a suggestion after being asked what I would do? Just a thought to stop this happening again would it not be better for the X8 thread to be merged with the Blackheath & Halesowen thread so we could keep just one set of comments and suggestions for Blackheath?
So your complaining because you currently have an every 20 minute X8 and want it cut back to an every 30 minute 9A.
Why would you want a frequency cut.
Doubt any passengers who currently use the X8 would be happy about that suggestion to cut the frequency of the route they use either.
Quote from: 2206 on December 17, 2019, 01:42:40 PM
So your complaining because you currently have an every 20 minute X8 and want an every 30 minute 9A.
Why would you want a frequency cut.
Doubt any passengers who currently use the X8 would be happy about that suggestion to cut the frequency of the route they use either.
We had a half hourly frequency for 50 of my 51 years on the 140 so why do we need a bus every 20 minutes no one who uses it wants it speaking the regulars I have put this suggestion to them and everyone thinks anything is better than the current shambles I have conducted detailed research on the X8, 13A and 24 for WMCA and this was the preferred option amongst regular users of the options given, it was NXWM who cut the frequency from Dudley to Blackheath from every 15 Min's to every 20 Min's with the X8 and the axing of the 140/241 by introducing a fitted timetable from The Ashley for the 9A, 14A and 24 the service is restored to every 15 Min's which would please most along the Rowley Road while Blackheath to Birmingham would have its reliability restored so where is the problem if off peak the 9A is on a fitted timetable with the 13A giving a bus every 15 Min's between Blackheath, Bearwood, Edgbaston & Birmingham? You must have never have used the previous 140/241 if you thing the X8 is an improvement.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 17, 2019, 01:55:00 PM
We had a half hourly frequency for 50 of my 51 years on the 140 so why do we need a bus every 20 minutes no one who uses it wants it speaking the regulars I have put this suggestion to them and everyone thinks anything is better than the current shambles I have conducted detailed research on the X8, 13A and 24 for WMCA and this was the preferred option amongst regular users of the options given, it was NXWM who cut the frequency from Dudley to Blackheath from every 15 Min's to every 20 Min's with the X8 and the axing of the 140/241 by introducing a fitted timetable from The Ashley for the 9A, 14A and 24 the service is restored to every 15 Min's which would please most along the Rowley Road while Blackheath to Birmingham would have its reliability restored so where is the problem if off peak the 9A is on a fitted timetable with the 13A giving a bus every 15 Min's between Blackheath, Bearwood, Edgbaston & Birmingham? You must have never have used the previous 140/241 if you thing the X8 is an improvement.
God knows why they axed the 241, one very bizarre decision that nx made I must admit. You argue and say it still exists but it's operated by a mini e200 winding round the estates between Dudley and blackheath so in my eyes can't really compare the two. Now if I need to go toduslwy it's fastest to get 4H and then X8, than to get the 244 or 14
Quote from: Trident 4194 on December 17, 2019, 02:14:16 PM
God knows why they axed the 241, one very bizarre decision that nx made I must admit. You argue and say it still exists but it's operated by a mini e200 winding round the estates between Dudley and blackheath so in my eyes can't really compare the two. Now if I need to go toduslwy it's fastest to get 4H and then X8, than to get the 244 or 14
Fair point but the 24 only goes off route by The Hailstone & its very minor and the size of the bus irelevant on a common 15min pattern I never use the X8 along the Rowley Road always the 24 the X8 is too unreliable my suggestion restores a 15min frequency from The Ashley to The Cock and brings stability back to Blackheaths link with Hagley Road.
Tbf it sounds like you'd rather use the hourly tendered services to get to places that go through every estate in the Black Country to get to one place, but then you'd be moaning that they are late...
I mean the 14A to Dudley from Blackheath is fine, unless you want a complete detour of every estate inbetween...
I would increase the X2 between Birmingham City Centre and Solihull and X1 between Birmingham City Centre and Airport/NEC up to Every 15 minutes each combining to every 7 minutes along the Coventry Road. As these are very busy services. And there are heavy passgener numbers on these services to Airport/NEC, JLR and Solihull.
I don't think Cranes Park requires such a frequent service, and the 60's never seem that busy between Yardley and Cranes Park, so the frequency of that service could be reduced between Yardley and Cranes Park.
Not sure if the Airport to Coventry section of the X1 would need a 15 minute frequency though, as I rarely use it?
Quote from: 2206 on December 19, 2019, 04:32:43 PM
I would increase the X2 between Birmingham City Centre and Solihull and X1 between Birmingham City Centre and Airport/NEC up to Every 15 minutes each combining to every 7 minutes along the Coventry Road. As these are very busy services. And there are heavy passgener numbers on these services to Airport/NEC, JLR and Solihull.
I don't think Cranes Park requires such a frequent service, and the 60's never seem that busy between the Wheatsheaf and Cranes Park, so the frequency of that service could be reduced between Yardley and Cranes Park.
Not sure if the Airport to Coventry section of the X1 would need a 15 minute frequency though, as I rarely use it?
Have to say as I never use the train
@2206 comments seen totally sound when I attend the NEC regularly and agree fully with him the X1 Platnums are always busy as is the X1 to Coventry when I have to attend meetings in that City I often have to down to Bordsley to see clients by the railway station.with 1 departure a week and always find the 60 much less used.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 17, 2019, 01:38:28 PM
From @Busboy105
We all know how much you despise the NX Hagley Road routes (you don't seem to give any solutions just complain) the works would just create chaos. With the underpass not opening again being a possibility, that's a risk that can't be taken.
P.S does anybody know when the Wolves works finish?
From @richardjones210368
The solution to Hagley Road is simple:
The X10 continues unchanged.
The X8 is rerouted from Dudley to run via the 126 every 10 Min's from Dudley To Birmingham and be all stops to The Warley Bowel and then follow the existing Limited Stop Service into Birmingham far more suitable than using The Rowley Road & Long Lane removing the need for the Stourbridge 8 which doesn't appear popular on the forum.
The section of route between Dudley & Birmingham of the X8 becomes a 9A running half hourly to all stops. in a similar pattern to the former 140.
The 9A would be run from Pensnett Garage and would offer additional capacity to the 9 which would only need a slight PVR adjustment as some of the 9s are rammed full in the peaks since its frequency cut.
The 24 would be curtailed to run Cradley Heath to Dudley allowing it to be rerouted in Blackheath via Henderson Way & Birmingham Road to serve The Ashley in Blackheath and not via Siviters Lane to maintain 3 buses per hour along Rowley Road and 4 still to The Cock with 14A. The 24 and the 14A would have greater patronage and may be able to become commercial with the extra traffic.
Outside of the peaks the half hourly 13A would operate to a fitted timetable with the 9A to allow a service every 15 Minuets from Colmore Row & Five Ways to Blackheath, a simple adjustment to the 13 is all that is needed.
Wolverhampton keeps its Platinum service to Birmingham via Birmingham New Rd, Blackheath gets an off peak fitted 15 min frequency to Birmingham with 9A & 13A with extra capacity for the 9 between Colmore Row & Quinton Classic Cinema there is no change to the PVR & we all get a reliable service back along Hagley Road compered with the utter rot that exists now its SIMPLES
@richardjones210368 - Please don't post the same reply in 4 different threads, please chose the most appropriate thread & post there. You'd already alerted Busboy to your reply by using '@', Winston
Sorry @Winston I did not realise using the "@" would alert the poster, I know now apologies as I thought I had to post it in all the threads that's another thing I have learnt now you are an expert on these things what are your views on my thoughts on the X8 conundrum & they are not a moan but a suggestion after being asked what I would do? Just a thought to stop this happening again would it not be better for the X8 thread to be merged with the Blackheath & Halesowen thread so we could keep just one set of comments and suggestions for Blackheath?
Genuinely can't believe what I'm reading
Quote from: Sh4318 on December 19, 2019, 05:16:06 PM
Genuinely can't believe what I'm reading
You aren't the only one...
Don't see the point in making the 14A and 24 more tiresome as they are... they work fine at the moment, they don't need changing again! Especially as the 24 doesn't go to the Foxyards anymore.
Quote from: Sh4318 on December 19, 2019, 05:16:06 PM
Genuinely can't believe what I'm reading
Why? Following the election and the mandate given these are the full costed proposals and research undertaken with users and stakeholders that I will be presenting in due course to the WMCA for a proposed QEP that could be bought in for Blackheath in line with the Mayors plans if elected again. What exactly cannot you believe about what you are reading, where is it going wrong I am very very happy for feedback on where this proposal may be failing please do comment? As I see it is a major improvement on the shambles that NXWM operates in Blackheath and combines subsidised services with those of the incumbent operator which is the whole idea of an QEP.
Quote from: Jack on December 19, 2019, 05:26:14 PM
You aren't the only one...
Don't see the point in making the 14A and 24 more tiresome as they are... they work fine at the moment, they don't need changing again! Especially as the 24 doesn't go to the Foxyards anymore.pb
The is NO change to the 14A and the 24 will simply continue past the High St to pick up outside Poundland where EVERYONE waits for Dudley buses, how could this be more tiresome when the only change is the 24 using Bham Rd instead of Siviters Lane the change is very MINOR just 1 road different It would run 11 mins later from Cradley Heath & not serve Merry Hill to improve reliability and would be fitted with the 9A and 14A to give 4 buses an hour DIRECT to The Hailstone so what is it you do not like about a better bus service for Rowley Regis?
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 19, 2019, 05:33:04 PM
The is NO change to the 14A and the 24 will simply continue past the High St to pick up outside Poundland where EVERYONE waits for Dudley buses, how could this be more tiresome when the only change is the 24 using Bham Rd instead of Siviters Lane the change is very MINOR just 1 road different It would run 11 mins later from Cradley Heath & not serve Merry Hill to improve reliability and would be fitted with the 9A and 14A to give 4 buses an hour DIRECT to The Hailstone so what is it you do not like about a better bus service for Rowley Regis?
They've been messed around/curtailed with loads this year, making it annoying and tiresome for those who depend on these routes. Yes, one road different, is there an actual reason why Siviters Lane doesn't need to be served, and I doubt the regulars will be happy about their bus not going to Merry Hill. Rowley Regis has plenty of 'better bus services', you can keep changing these tendered services but that won't make much difference. If you was to remove the 24 from Merry Hill you will pretty much ruin the service. The whole reasons these services are around is not to improve them and make them better routes, that's the whole reason they are about and why they are tendered services...
Quote from: Jack on December 19, 2019, 09:33:44 PM
They've been messed around/curtailed with loads this year, making it annoying and tiresome for those who depend on these routes. Yes, one road different, is there an actual reason why Siviters Lane doesn't need to be served, and I doubt the regulars will be happy about their bus not going to Merry Hill. Rowley Regis has plenty of better bus service's, you can keep changing these tendered services but that won't make much difference. If you was to remove the 24 from Merry Hill you will pretty much ruin the service. The whole reasons these services are around is not to improve them and make them better routes, that's the whole reason they are about and why they are tendered services...
Sorry for the late reply
@Jack just got in from my lane swimming in over 10 years of using the 24 regularly with Igo, Diamond and now NXWM I have never ever seen a single person board in Siviters Lane or use it between Cradley Heath & Merry Hill so why run a bus to places no one uses when I did my audit on the route no one boarded in Siviters Lane also and the numbers using the bus to Merry Hill were well below the TfWM the contract minimum it continued due to the business case of NXWM to interwork with the 14A on the tender renewal replacing the 208 other than the change to the 24 this year I cannot recall any other change to the 24 other than it using Perry Park & Codsall to replace the NXWM 129 which was AXED by NXWM proving my point NXWM doesn't care about Blackheath. It is your opinion then Blackheath folk should continue to have the awful service it currently has instead of simple change that benefit all? My argument is to use the bus stop outside Poundland in order to benefit the majority of users of the 24 and for it to operate Cradley Heath to Dudley via Birmingham Road & frankly I would also curtail the 14A to Cradley Heath Interchange as its a total waste of resources for them both to serve Merry Hill when there are plenty of commercial alternatives.
I have split off a number of off-topic posts from this thread and merged them into the existing Blackheath Bus Services (http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=5586.0) thread.
This is a final warning for all members to abide by the Forum Rules (http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=4859.0) and certain members who keep taking threads off-topic and others joining in arguments with baiting comments will start finding themselves suspended.
Quote from: Stu on December 20, 2019, 06:41:08 PM
I have split off a number of off-topic posts from this thread and merged them into the existing Blackheath Bus Services (http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=5586.0) thread.
This is a final warning for all members to abide by the Forum Rules (http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=4859.0) and certain members who keep taking threads off-topic and others joining in arguments with baiting comments will start finding themselves suspended.
Ok will take note I didnt realise it wasnt in the Blackheath thread many APOLOGIES I only ended up on the X8 today due to a callback from the QE for a biopsy I am on holiday from the X8 and it seemed to get a bit out of control when it failed to turn up at 12.50 again apologies but I only ever post what I experience when I am actually using the buses I am on. If I experience poor service from an operator I report it as a TfWM Bus Champion and post it on here I apologise if that is not acceptable.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 20, 2019, 06:45:32 PM
apologies but I only ever post what I experience when I am actually using the buses I am on. If I experience poor service from an operator I report it as a TfWM Bus Champion and post it on here I apologise if that is not acceptable.
We have no problem with anyone doing that, we just ask that members post comments in the most appropriate topic or start a new one, too many topics are getting derailed lately.
Quote from: Stu on December 20, 2019, 07:51:45 PM
We have no problem with anyone doing that, we just ask that members post comments in the most appropriate topic or start a new one, too many topics are getting derailed lately.
Ok Cheers & Apologies again
I would merge the 16A with the 16 and extend the 16 to Great Barr or to Queslett Asda as a faster alternative to the 424.
OR
Make the 16A an all day service and extend it to Queslett Asda (as a faster alternative to the 424) every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 23, 2019, 01:15:04 PM
I would merge the 16A with the 16 and extend the 16 to Great Barr or to Queslett Asda as a faster alternative to the 424.
OR
Make the 16A an all day service and extend it to Queslett Asda (as a faster alternative to the 424) every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime.
Are you mad ?
The traffic on Queslett Road is a bad enough as it is and the 16 would have to pass through the Scott Arms.
The reliability of the 16 would be in tatters !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on December 23, 2019, 03:22:38 PM
Are you mad ?
The traffic on Queslett Road is a bad enough as it is and the 16 would have to pass through the Scott Arms.
The reliability of the 16 would be in tatters !
Maybe I am.
Or maybe you need to read through my comment again because I said extend it to Great Barr replacing the 16A or extend it to Asda Queslett. That was my second choice.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 23, 2019, 03:29:25 PM
Maybe I am.
Or maybe you need to read through my comment again because I said extend it to Great Barr replacing the 16A or extend it to Asda Queslett. That was my second choice.
Would possibly work if it went from hamstead village straight up the old Walsall road (46 route) rather than the 16A route, wouldn't be reliable at all however. Personally extending the 52 to Asda queslett might be easier
What's the point in extending the 16 and 16A to Asda? They tried with the 46 when the 651 went and barely anyone used it. What was the whole point in that 651 anyway, you'd never see anyway using it and it carried fresh air. Perry Beeches already has a service to Asda, the 424: which people do use, no more than several normally but it is getting used. You could extend the 52 but it's not much point because the 997 stops no more than 8 mins anyway from the Hassop terminus.
If the 52 was to be extended then I'd re-route the 997 by letting the 52 serve Old Oscott and the 997 carrying on down Aldridge Road. Would save a good 7-11 minutes on the 997 than going through the back streets.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 23, 2019, 03:29:25 PM
Maybe I am.
Or maybe you need to read through my comment again because I said extend it to Great Barr replacing the 16A or extend it to Asda Queslett. That was my second choice.
Diamond have made the 16W work I use it regulary so you never know would your 16 follow the (4)5(1) to Asda its a popular section of route remember both Diamond & Petes Travel had a bash at short 451?
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 23, 2019, 10:47:46 PM
Diamond have made the 16W work I use it regulary so you never know would your 16 follow the (4)5(1) to Asda its a popular section of route remember both Diamond & Petes Travel had a bash at short 451?
Again, that would make no sense and a massive waste of time... if you ever see how the 5 gets caught at Scott Arms and Queslett Asda then you wouldn't want the 16 going there... it's not like Hamstead are missing out, they've had 2 tries, the 651 and 46 and both have failed so at what cost is sending the 16 there going to do?
Quote from: Jack on December 23, 2019, 10:52:16 PM
Again, that would make no sense and a massive waste of time... if you ever see how the 5 gets caught at Scott Arms and Queslett Asda then you wouldn't want the 16 going there... it's not like Hamstead are missing out, they've had 2 tries, the 651 and 46 and both have failed so at what cost is sending the 16 there going to do?
Yes Jack i see your point about the 5 I use it about a once a month and Scott Arms is a nightmare mind you I am sure there was Centro contract run by Midland Red West with Centtro livery Talbot Pullmans that ran a 16 type service that went off route from Hampstead to Asda once I seem to remember bringing a relief Lance from DH to replace an ailling Pullman a long time ago before the Pullmans the route had ex Badgerline Transits in full Badgetline colours on it I am sure!
Quote from: Lukeee on December 23, 2019, 10:40:26 PM
Would possibly work if it went from hamstead village straight up the old Walsall road (46 route) rather than the 16A route, wouldn't be reliable at all however. Personally extending the 52 to Asda queslett might be easier
That was the old 16A route years ago wasn't it?
Quote from: Jack on December 23, 2019, 10:46:34 PM
What's the point in extending the 16 and 16A to Asda? They tried with the 46 when the 651 went and barely anyone used it. What was the whole point in that 651 anyway, you'd never see anyway using it and it carried fresh air. Perry Beeches already has a service to Asda, the 424: which people do use, no more than several normally but it is getting used. You could extend the 52 but it's not much point because the 997 stops no more than 8 mins anyway from the Hassop terminus.
If the 52 was to be extended then I'd re-route the 997 by letting the 52 serve Old Oscott and the 997 carrying on down Aldridge Road. Would save a good 7-11 minutes on the 997 than going through the back streets.
The 651 was funded by the developers of Nether Hall Park using section 106 funding i believe.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 23, 2019, 11:17:33 PM
Yes Jack i see your point about the 5 I use it about a once a month and Scott Arms is a nightmare mind you I am sure there was Centro contract run by Midland Red West with Centtro livery Talbot Pullmans that ran a 16 type service that went off route from Hampstead to Asda once I seem to remember bringing a relief Lance from DH to replace an ailling Pullman a long time ago before the Pullmans the route had ex Badgerline Transits in full Badgetline colours on it I am sure!
Ive have a funny feeling it was the 616 but its a long time ago.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 24, 2019, 12:14:32 AM
Ive have a funny feeling it was the 616 but its a long time ago.
It was in 2013 when they merged the 651 into the 46... the 616 is the current 61 route in Perry Barr.
16A all day, GRS tried it & was a total failure he had much better "success" operating the normal 16 route.
Running upto Asda queslett, well it has added passengers to the 424 & is used but no where bear enough people to even contemplate it being a commercially good idea.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 24, 2019, 03:05:28 PM
16A all day, GRS tried it & was a total failure he had much better "success" operating the normal 16 route.
Running upto Asda queslett, well it has added passengers to the 424 & is used but no where bear enough people to even contemplate it being a commercially good idea.
Of course mate you hold the TfWM contracts around Hampstead forgot that and what an excellent job your company does operating them as we end a decade I was at Midland Red West three decades earlier at the start of the 90s the margins on more or less the same services were tight then working on the tenders then so utmost respect today to your company.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 24, 2019, 03:05:28 PM
16A all day, GRS tried it & was a total failure he had much better "success" operating the normal 16 route.
Running upto Asda queslett, well it has added passengers to the 424 & is used but no where bear enough people to even contemplate it being a commercially good idea.
The drivers on the 424 drive like maniacs, speed up Hassop Road, try and get in front of the 28's even though no one will use them, they use to park under the bridge on Hassop blocking the road but now they just park anywhere on Thornbridge, not even paying attention to the fact they have the Haddon Road stop to layover at... not like the old Claribels at all. The regulars from the Whitecrest don't even know who the operator is and just call them the little white buses.
One thing I know is that the people there would like a pole bus stop placed on Whitecrest by Rokeby Road because they never know about the timetable and when they are due until they are seen coming up the hill.
Quote from: Jack on December 24, 2019, 05:06:58 PM
The drivers on the 424 drive like maniacs, speed up Hassop Road, try and get in front of the 28's even though no one will use them, they use to park under the bridge on Hassop blocking the road but now they just park anywhere on Thornbridge, not even paying attention to the fact they have the Haddon Road stop to layover at... not like the old Claribels at all. The regulars from the Whitecrest don't even know who the operator is and just call them the little white buses.
One thing I know is that the people there would like a pole bus stop placed on Whitecrest by Rokeby Road because they never know about the timetable and when they are due until they are seen coming up the hill.
And on that bombshell I am off to get a Diamond Bus 231 & see if can dangle a Daysaver 5 under my mates noses but to you
@Jack @Winston @Stu and everyone on the forum MERRY CHRISTMAS and @Tony
@Jack I've looked through the trackers for the 424 vehicles over the past week they show a maximum speed (in service) of 28mph with an average speed of just 21.5 mph so they aren't breaking any speed limits, it may just look like it as nxwm 28s do tend to dawdle along around the beaches. Both routes go to different locations & are aimed at different sets of passengers so there is no competitive element to either service.
I would disagree that passengers dont know who we are as we have had quite a few people travel with us on some of our Birmingham International Tours.
As for bus stop poles etc the placing of those is upto Tfwm I have made enquiries on passengers behalf before but have met resistance due to poor patronage figures the route has been under threat of cancellation since before we took over the contract & it's only through hard work determination from the routes dedicated drivers & the office team that the route has survived for the past 3 years.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 24, 2019, 06:43:46 PM
@Jack I've looked through the trackers for the 424 vehicles over the past week they show a maximum speed (in service) of 28mph with an average speed of just 21.5 mph so they aren't breaking any speed limits, it may just look like it as nxwm 28s do tend to dawdle along around the beaches. Both routes go to different locations & are aimed at different sets of passengers so there is no competitive element to either service.
I would disagree that passengers dont know who we are as we have had quite a few people travel with us on some of our Birmingham International Tours.
As for bus stop poles etc the placing of those is upto Tfwm I have made enquiries on passengers behalf before but have met resistance due to poor patronage figures the route has been under threat of cancellation since before we took over the contract & it's only through hard work determination from the routes dedicated drivers & the office team that the route has survived for the past 3 years.
I've clearly seen 424's trying to beat a 28 to a bus stop towards the Scott Arms... some people here do actually do get whatever comes first for Scott Arms. You can disagree as much as you want, I've family who use the 424 and they do claim it's the 'little white bus'. Most of the drivers are muppets, months ago one was driving while driver had phone to ear. Be nice if the drivers didn't decide to park wherever they please, when they have a dedicated bus stop before starting service in the morning.
When the Paradise Circus works end, I would like to see the AG1 go back to serving the City Centre again. I never really understood why it never went to Colmore Row like the Harborne and Hagley Road services but anyway let's get back to the topic at hand.
There's three ways that I would make the 1 return to town: the 1A won't be affected.
1. From Five Ways, it can follow the Harborne and Hagley Road services but at Snow Hill, it will turn left at the WM Police headquarters to terminate at the old Megabus bus stop at Colmore Circus ( the 23 and the 24 already go beyond Colmore Circus no need for another service).
2. A variation of the 1st change, it can turn right onto Suffolk Street Queensway and follow the old 126 diversion route by serving New Street Station to terminate at the Markets.
3. From Five Ways, it can follow the 80/A, X20/21/22 to the city centre where it can terminate at either the Markets or at the unused bus stop at Moor Street Queensway ( the one next to the old BY17 beginning stop don't know the stop number).
P.S just checked on Google Maps that the beginning of Broad Street by the Library of Birmingham and Suffolk Street Queensway will be reopening in the summer so I assume the 82/87 will go back to its old loop otherwise the 1 can go down that route as well and terminate at the unused bus stop next to the bus gate.
Not sure many would even benefit from that, the majority of the route must already have frequent services nearby to the City Centre. And its not difficult to change onto the 23/24 at Five Ways Morrisons otherwise.
Quote from: Busboy105 on January 02, 2020, 09:44:52 PM
When the Paradise Circus works end, I would like to see the AG1 go back to serving the City Centre again. I never really understood why it never went to Colmore Row like the Harborne and Hagley Road services but anyway let's get back to the topic at hand.
There's three ways that I would make the 1 return to town: the 1A won't be affected.
1. From Five Ways, it can follow the Harborne and Hagley Road services but at Snow Hill, it will turn left at the WM Police headquarters to terminate at the old Megabus bus stop at Colmore Circus ( the 23 and the 24 already go beyond Colmore Circus no need for another service).
2. A variation of the 1st change, it can turn right onto Suffolk Street Queensway and follow the old 126 diversion route by serving New Street Station to terminate at the Markets.
3. From Five Ways, it can follow the 80/A, X20/21/22 to the city centre where it can terminate at either the Markets or at the unused bus stop at Moor Street Queensway ( the one next to the old BY17 beginning stop don't know the stop number).
P.S just checked on Google Maps that the beginning of Broad Street by the Library of Birmingham and Suffolk Street Queensway will be reopening in the summer so I assume the 82/87 will go back to its old loop otherwise the 1 can go down that route as well and terminate at the unused bus stop next to the bus gate.
As a regular on the one and only 1 its so Chesney Hawks I can see the real benefit of this for Priory Rd users after all it did used to terminate at the Town Hall my only.worry is would it be viable?
Quote from: richardjones210368 on January 02, 2020, 10:51:50 PM
As a regular on the one and only 1 its so Chesney Hawks I can see the real benefit of this for Priory Rd users after all it did used to terminate at the Town Hall my only.worry is would it be viable?
From the stops near the Bristol Road, on Priory Road you have the 61/63 or 45/47 to the City Centre, from the next stop at the other end of Priory Road near Edgbaston Old Church you have the X20/X21/X22, so not sure how that benefits anyone on Priory Road, when the exsisting services to the City Centre are very frequent.
Quote from: 2206 on January 02, 2020, 10:56:31 PM
From the stops near the Bristol Road, on Priory Road you have the 61/63 or 45/47 to the City Centre, from the next stop near Edgbaston Old Church you have the X20/X21/X22, so not sure how that benefits anyone on Priory Road, when the exsisting services to the City Centre are very frequent.
Well as a regular at the tennis club for meetings when I am in Priory Rd none of those options offererd by those services offer the diagram proposed I would use it to access clients at St Pauls Square, Sheepcote Street and St Chads much more easily offering more connections from my office in Edgbaston the 61, 63, 45, 47, X20, X21, X22 are of no use to Edgbaston users such a me by The Plough & Harrow.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on January 02, 2020, 11:01:24 PM
I would use it to access clients at St Pauls Square, Sheepcote Street and St Chads much more easily offering more connections from my office in Edgbaston the 61, 63, 45, 47, X20, X21, X22 are of no use to Edgbaston users such a me by The Plough & Harrow.
There are buses every few minutes from Plough and Harrow to St Pauls Square, Sheepcote Street and St Chads on the Hagley Road services. The Plough and Harrow is nowhere near the parts of Edgbaston that the 61/63, 45/47 and X20/X21/X22 serve, so of course they are of no use to you.
And the 1 already goes from Priory Road to Highfield Road (near the Plough And Harrow), if that's what you meant.
Quote from: 2206 on January 02, 2020, 11:15:23 PM
There are buses every few minutes from Plough and Harrow to St Pauls Square, Sheepcote Street and St Chads on the Hagley Road services. The Plough and Harrow is nowhere near the parts of Edgbaston that the 61/63, 45/47 and X20/X21/X22 serve, so of course they are of no use to you.
And the 1 already goes from Priory Road to Highfield Road (near the Plough And Harrow), if that's what you meant.
Thank you
@2206 I think I am very aware of the frequent services from The Plough & Harrow to The City one of which is a certain service from Wolverhampton to Birmingham via Blackheath I may have mentioned this service before on the forum my point is regulary attend meetings at the tennis club and afterwards I always have to attend another meeting related in St Pauls Square the proposed changes to the 1 would save me changing buses.
Quote from: Busboy105 on January 02, 2020, 09:44:52 PM
When the Paradise Circus works end, I would like to see the AG1 go back to serving the City Centre again. I never really understood why it never went to Colmore Row like the Harborne and Hagley Road services but anyway let's get back to the topic at hand.
There's three ways that I would make the 1 return to town: the 1A won't be affected.
1. From Five Ways, it can follow the Harborne and Hagley Road services but at Snow Hill, it will turn left at the WM Police headquarters to terminate at the old Megabus bus stop at Colmore Circus ( the 23 and the 24 already go beyond Colmore Circus no need for another service).
2. A variation of the 1st change, it can turn right onto Suffolk Street Queensway and follow the old 126 diversion route by serving New Street Station to terminate at the Markets.
3. From Five Ways, it can follow the 80/A, X20/21/22 to the city centre where it can terminate at either the Markets or at the unused bus stop at Moor Street Queensway ( the one next to the old BY17 beginning stop don't know the stop number).
P.S just checked on Google Maps that the beginning of Broad Street by the Library of Birmingham and Suffolk Street Queensway will be reopening in the summer so I assume the 82/87 will go back to its old loop otherwise the 1 can go down that route as well and terminate at the unused bus stop next to the bus gate.
The 1 isn't that type of route. It links a lot of areas in Birmingham to each other, the majority areas on the route have a service to Birmingham City Centre
Quote from: Sh4318 on January 03, 2020, 10:03:07 PM
The 1 isn't that type of route. It links a lot of areas in Birmingham to each other, the majority areas on the route have a service to Birmingham City Centre
Fair point but the 1 to Town Hall as it was,was a usefull service off peak.
Caught the X12 and X70 today, very nice fast trip not having to stop between Farmhurst Road and City Centre.
Wander if a routing of the X70 along Bromford Lane and Coleshill Road would work (With the X12 already serving the present route). Giving an express link to the City Centre from Bromford Lane.
Or maybe it'd only be me that would benefit from something like that and would use it on Bromford Lane to the City Centre. Since its quite a long way to walk from Bromford Lane by, St Margarets Road lights to the 55/94 or X12.
Is it worth any of the hagley road services doing a loop of the city similar to the 23 / 24. None of the hagley road services have a connection with New Street station.
Quote from: sonic84 on January 10, 2020, 06:33:59 PM
Is it worth any of the hagley road services doing a loop of the city similar to the 23 / 24. None of the hagley road services have a connection with New Street station.
The 126 used to do it I do not think it would be a good idea for the X8 9 or X10 and the other Hagley Rd Services for reliability issues.
Obviously not the X8... I recall the 127, 128, 129 (weirdly not the 120) doing a loop of the markets back from July 2012 until sometime in 2013? As well as the 126 until 2017...
Quote from: Jack on January 10, 2020, 08:17:37 PM
Obviously not the X8... I recall the 127, 128, 129 (weirdly not the 120) doing a loop of the markets back from July 2012 until sometime in 2013? As well as the 126 until 2017...
Obviously not the X8
@Jack the 127 128 129 had massive realibiliy problems which is why they went back to the 140 loop I used the 126 to meet my mum and dad regularly on an evening at The Amber Tavern when they were up from Torquay and found it usefull link when coming in from Smallbrook Queensway.
Quote from: sonic84 on January 10, 2020, 06:33:59 PM
Is it worth any of the hagley road services doing a loop of the city similar to the 23 / 24. None of the hagley road services have a connection with New Street station.
Pretty sure that is what The Mayors extention of The Metro is designed for to Five Ways.
Quote from: j789 on September 13, 2019, 09:42:51 PM
The only way the 50a would work would be to have it as a more frequent all day service. I have suggested before that one bus every 20 minutes could go to Wythall instead of Druids Heath from the Maypole. If it went straight down the Hollywood bypass to a Becketts island then did the route back through Wythall and Hollywood to the Maypole it could be done in about 15 minutes. The buses at aDruids Heath seem to have about several minutes parked up time at the terminus so taking away that plus the time to and from there to the maypole would probably equal about 15 minutes too, so it could be changed without needing any extra vehicles.
The only issue would be that the 50a would not get any make up time at its outer terminus. This however I do not think is a major problem as at the Maypole the normal 50 will still be able to maintain a mostly 4-5 minute frequency so could fill any gap if there was a delay. Also, if the 50a was inter run with the 50 then on its second trip it would get the make up time at Druids Heath. Wythall is a large area, with significant social housing as well as affluent areas , and is crying out for such a service. The A4 is not great as irregular as is the 150 service .
What if the 2 got extended to Wythall? Runs every 20 minutes between Brum and Maypole so one or two journeys could extend to Wythall from Maypole. Gives passengers a good link to the city centre.
Or extend the 2 to Druids Heath and make the 50 extend to Wythall every half hour.
Had some thoughts lately on the Beechdale routes after using them quite a bit last year:
Withdraw the 70A, complete waste of time. It really is the 70 route apart from the latter section of Stephenson Avenue. Up the 69's frequency to every 15 mins during that day, this route has problems and is ALWAYS late, and give it more double deckers, the Urban 2's are rammed. And put the 70 to every 20 mins to compensate for the 70A. Out of interest has the 70 always been every half an hour, even back to 370 days?
Quote from: Jack on January 17, 2020, 09:56:28 PM
Had some thoughts lately on the Beechdale routes after using them quite a bit last year:
Withdraw the 70A, complete waste of time. It really is the 70 route apart from the latter section of Stephenson Avenue. Up the 69's frequency to every 15 mins during that day, this route has problems and is ALWAYS late, and give it more double deckers, the Urban 2's are rammed. And put the 70 to every 20 mins to compensate for the 70A. Out of interest has the 70 always been every half an hour, even back to 370 days?
How many extra buses would that cost? what would serve the stops currently only served by the 70 A?
Quote from: Jack on January 17, 2020, 09:56:28 PM
Had some thoughts lately on the Beechdale routes after using them quite a bit last year:
Withdraw the 70A, complete waste of time. It really is the 70 route apart from the latter section of Stephenson Avenue. Up the 69's frequency to every 15 mins during that day, this route has problems and is ALWAYS late, and give it more double deckers, the Urban 2's are rammed. And put the 70 to every 20 mins to compensate for the 70A. Out of interest has the 70 always been every half an hour, even back to 370 days?
Where are you finding these extra double deckers from at WN? And as someone who lives at the other end of the route, the 69 really does not require a bus every 15 minutes..
Quote from: Tony on January 17, 2020, 10:06:34 PM
How many extra buses would that cost? what would serve the stops currently only served by the 70 A?
Nothing? It's not even a big section that part of the road and I doubt it's hard to walk down to Stephenson Square or to Bloxwich Lane, that's what people do on the evenings and Sundays, and whenever the 70A decides not to turn up...
Quote from: Nathan on January 17, 2020, 10:28:05 PM
Where are you finding these extra double deckers from at WN? And as someone who lives at the other end of the route, the 69 really does not require a bus every 15 minutes..
I mean we can go back when they did have enough and the 69 was solid Tridents, I mean you are lucky to see one on it now from my observations, and they are always late leaving Walsall Bus Station, come in late and leave late. I don't use the Wolves end much but the Walsall end is practically as bad as the X8 is exaggerated on here. For an every 30 minute route you'd think they'd run it on time... and the Wednesfield side of the route has the 59 and 60 for a section of the route, but the parts where it's standalone it's just awful.
Quote from: Jack on January 17, 2020, 10:52:19 PM
Nothing? It's not even a big section that part of the road and I doubt it's hard to walk down to Stephenson Square or to Bloxwich Lane, that's what people do on the evenings and Sundays, and whenever the 70A decides not to turn up...
I mean we can go back when they did have enough and the 69 was solid Tridents, I mean you are lucky to see one on it now from my observations, and they are always late leaving Walsall Bus Station, come in late and leave late. I don't use the Wolves end much but the Walsall end is practically as bad as the X8 is exaggerated on here. For an every 30 minute route you'd think they'd run it on time... and the Wednesfield side of the route has the 59 and 60 for a section of the route, but the parts where it's standalone it's just awful.
So It's a case of your not fit enough to walk 1/4 mile so you cannot have a bus service!
As for your claims of the 69 In the whole of last week only 5 journies left late.
Quote from: Tony on January 18, 2020, 09:25:11 AM
So It's a case of your not fit enough to walk 1/4 mile so you cannot have a bus service!
As for your claims of the 69 In the whole of last week only 5 journies left late.
Lots of small sections have lost services, if you wanted to keep that section with a service then let the 70 carry on down the latter section of Stephenson Avenue, but no then you're leaving the same sized section of Bloxwich Lane without a bus. The 70A on that section only serves the one direction yet there's bus stops on the opposite side that aren't in use, so there was something else along there at one stage.
Quote from: Jack on January 17, 2020, 09:56:28 PM
Had some thoughts lately on the Beechdale routes after using them quite a bit last year:
Withdraw the 70A, complete waste of time. It really is the 70 route apart from the latter section of Stephenson Avenue. Up the 69's frequency to every 15 mins during that day, this route has problems and is ALWAYS late, and give it more double deckers, the Urban 2's are rammed. And put the 70 to every 20 mins to compensate for the 70A. Out of interest has the 70 always been every half an hour, even back to 370 days?
Hi Jack, IIRC, the 370 was firstly an evenings and Sunday working every 30 mins clockwise opposite the anti-clockwise 371. Daytimes were covered by a myriad of Beechdale/Bloxwich variant services until the early/mid 90s when all track routes worked as circulars, including 370/1 all day, 7 days a week. As someone who's lived in North Walsall and now at the other end of the 69, Beechdale has probably had more service trials and experimentation than most areas. Looking back to my days at Choice Travel, we operated the evening and Sunday 342 that took in Beechdale, and it was also served by Chase 364 so it had more buses than it needed. Now there's NXWM, i think they've got the coverage right - granted, you'll never cover all areas of every estate but it's certainly got a better coverage than some areas.
I would bring back the X7. It was a good route but just wasn't promoted enough in my opinion. However I would let it run through Cape Hill instead of going around it.
Quote from: Busboy105 on February 11, 2020, 05:23:55 PM
I would bring back the X7. It was a good route but just wasn't promoted enough in my opinion. However I would let it run through Cape Hill instead of going around it.
That would defeat the purpose of what the X7 was intended to do.
You may as well just suggest extending the 87 to Wolverhampton. ;)
Quote from: Busboy105 on February 11, 2020, 05:23:55 PM
I would bring back the X7. It was a good route but just wasn't promoted enough in my opinion. However I would let it run through Cape Hill instead of going around it.
Whilst I agree, it wasn't promoted as much as it should have been. Bringing it back and re-routing it via Cape Hill isn't the answer
Quote from: Stu on February 11, 2020, 07:16:23 PM
That would defeat the purpose of what the X7 was intended to do.
You may as well just suggest extending the 87 to Wolverhampton. ;)
Wouldn't the reliability become worse if that was to happen? Plus if the X7 was to come back is there even a point extending it to Wolves anymore? Considering that the 8 and the X8 combine between Wolves and Dudley?
The X7 would still be around if passengers used the service wouldn't it?
I'm not having a go at one member, but there's so many keyboard warriors at the moment who think they know better than the bus companies, how about running a bus company yourself then i'm sure it'd make millions with your demands.
Quote from: Crosville on February 12, 2020, 07:05:48 PM
The X7 would still be around if passengers used the service wouldn't it?
I'm not having a go at one member, but there's so many keyboard warriors at the moment who think they know better than the bus companies, how about running a bus company yourself then i'm sure it'd make millions with your demands.
It's just a what if for god sake. Calm the hell down.
I've thought about extending the 224 from Sedgley to Merry Hill. At the moment, it just seems a bit of a pointless route as it doesn't really go anywhere that isn't already served e.g Woodcross is also served by the 223 to Bilston. If it was extended, it would mean that there would also be a direct link between Bilston & Merry Hill.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on February 26, 2020, 07:27:24 PM
I've thought about extending the 224 from Sedgley to Merry Hill. At the moment, it just seems a bit of a pointless route as it doesn't really go anywhere that isn't already served e.g Woodcross is also served by the 223 to Bilston. If it was extended, it would mean that there would also be a direct link between Bilston & Merry Hill.
Is there a demand for it though? Bilston isn't far from Dudley where there are a plethora of services that go to Merry Hill. Also the tram will go down there in a couple of years so it wouldn't last long.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on February 26, 2020, 07:27:24 PM
I've thought about extending the 224 from Sedgley to Merry Hill. At the moment, it just seems a bit of a pointless route as it doesn't really go anywhere that isn't already served e.g Woodcross is also served by the 223 to Bilston. If it was extended, it would mean that there would also be a direct link between Bilston & Merry Hill.
The 224 has plenty of use... links various estates that wouldn't have a bus link to either Sedgley or Bilston. Both popular destinations for the OAP's on said estates, from observation.. especially on market day.
I know the current 3 (Birmingham to Yardley Wood) probably works quite nice for NX Bus operationally-wise as it is.
I wonder how much more useful it might be if it was extended to Shirley rail station. Maybe less so at peak times, but certainly during the daytimes, there might be enough drop-back in the timetable that would allow service to continue to Shirley station without needing an extra bus.
At present, the 3 terminates at Slade Lane, but if it were to continue to Shirley station, it would provide a link to the 49 service, and a direct link to train services.
Peak and evening services could of course continue to start and finish at Slade Lane.
Quote from: Stu on February 26, 2020, 07:46:44 PM
I know the current 3 (Birmingham to Yardley Wood) probably works quite nice for NX Bus operationally-wise as it is.
I wonder how much more useful it might be if it was extended to Shirley rail station. Maybe less so at peak times, but certainly during the daytimes, there might be enough drop-back in the timetable that would allow service to continue to Shirley station without needing an extra bus.
At present, the 3 terminates at Slade Lane, but if it were to continue to Shirley station, it would provide a link to the 49 service, and a direct link to train services.
Peak and evening services could of course continue to start and finish at Slade Lane.
@Stu I think it used to do that.
I remember reading a notice on one of the Omnilinks (when the 3 was being single decker operated due to a low bridge on a diversion), that the service was being cut back to no longer serve Shirley Station and the High Street, due to very low usage.
Quote from: Nathan on February 26, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
The 224 has plenty of use... links various estates that wouldn't have a bus link to either Sedgley or Bilston. Both popular destinations for the OAP's on said estates, from observation.. especially on market day.
Whenever i've seen it, there doesn't seem to be anyone on it. Besides, Woodcross have the 81 to Wolves and the 223 to Dudley, Sedgley & Bilston. Lanesfield have the 52 to Wolves, or the 8/X8 from Parkfield.
Quote from: Busboy105 on February 26, 2020, 07:42:40 PM
Is there a demand for it though? Bilston isn't far from Dudley where there are a plethora of services that go to Merry Hill. Also the tram will go down there in a couple of years so it wouldn't last long.
It would save having to change buses though. That is what puts most people off travelling by bus is having to change buses somewhere.
Quote from: Stu on February 26, 2020, 07:46:44 PM
I know the current 3 (Birmingham to Yardley Wood) probably works quite nice for NX Bus operationally-wise as it is.
I wonder how much more useful it might be if it was extended to Shirley rail station. Maybe less so at peak times, but certainly during the daytimes, there might be enough drop-back in the timetable that would allow service to continue to Shirley station without needing an extra bus.
At present, the 3 terminates at Slade Lane, but if it were to continue to Shirley station, it would provide a link to the 49 service, and a direct link to train services.
Peak and evening services could of course continue to start and finish at Slade Lane.
About ten years ago the 12 (which, for those who didn't know, is what the 3 used to be) was extended between the peaks to Shirley Station. It wasn't used alot, but it would suit me too if the 3 was extended there again.
Unfortunately, for some reason unknown to me, Network West Midlands put up signs at Shirley Station some time ago saying that buses are not to wait or lay over at the obvious (and only) point where buses could lay over. Could this be why no bus services terminate there now?
Quote from: 2206 on February 26, 2020, 07:52:02 PM
@Stu I think it used to do that.
I remember reading a notice on one of the Omnilinks (when the 3 was being single decker operated due to a low bridge on a diversion), that the service was being cut back to no longer serve Shirley Station and the High Street, due to very low usage.
That was when it used to run all the way to Shirley Green Business Park, and prior to that there was the 3 to Solihull (via Streetsbrook Road) as well as the 3A to Acocks Green (via Gospel Oak).
The evening and Sunday service always only ran as far as Slade Lane (where it terminates now) as far as I can remember.
I just wonder how feasible it would be to extend daytime off-peak journeys to Shirley station, as its only a couple of minutes more away from the current terminus on Priory Road. I know I've seen a few comments on local Facebook groups from people who've said they'd find it useful.
At the moment, it terminates in the middle of nowhere. I'd probably use it on a Saturday as another option to get to Solihull or Shirley, alongside the 76.
Quote from: Stu on February 26, 2020, 08:17:16 PM
That was when it used to run all the way to Shirley Green Business Park, and prior to that there was the 3 to Solihull (via Streetsbrook Road) as well as the 3A to Acocks Green (via Gospel Oak).
The evening and Sunday service always only ran as far as Slade Lane (where it terminates now) as far as I can remember.
I just wonder how feasible it would be to extend daytime off-peak journeys to Shirley station, as its only a couple of minutes more away from the current terminus on Priory Road. I know I've seen a few comments on local Facebook groups from people who've said they'd find it useful.
At the moment, it terminates in the middle of nowhere. I'd probably use it on a Saturday as another option to get to Solihull or Shirley, alongside the 76.
The 3 also went to Acocks Green when the 3A was withdrawn I think. But yes I think it terminating at Shirley Town Centre would be much better than Shirley Station where it can connect with services to Solihull.
Quote from: Stu on February 26, 2020, 08:17:16 PM
At the moment, it terminates in the middle of nowhere. I'd probably use it on a Saturday as another option to get to Solihull or Shirley, alongside the 76.
Sounds similar to the ☓21 to be honest. At present it stops in the middle of nowhere in a sense by terminating halfway up Woodcock Lane when it could easily carry on to Bangham Pit & Bartley Green.
As a slight route modification, I would suggest that there could be a variation of the 94, by diverting a couple of buses an hour via Drews Lane and Bromford Lane to the Fox and Goose. Could also have it doing a loop of Smith's Wood, via Windward Way and Auckland Drive, terminating at the bus layby at Lanchester Way, numbered 25 of course as is the trend, numbered 95.
Quote from: MasterPlan on February 26, 2020, 10:19:01 PM
Sounds similar to the ☓21 to be honest. At present it stops in the middle of nowhere in a sense by terminating halfway up Woodcock Lane when it could easily carry on to Bangham Pit & Bartley Green.
Does a loop at the minute I think. So would that use Moors Lane or Woodcock Lane if you extended it? Or use one, one way and one the other?
What new links would that create though?
Surely Bartley Green is already well served by the X22, 002 and 23.
Quote from: ellspurs on February 26, 2020, 10:29:11 PM
As a slight route modification, I would suggest that there could be a variation of the 94, by diverting a couple of buses an hour via Drews Lane and Bromford Lane to the Fox and Goose. Could also have it doing a loop of Smith's Wood, via Windward Way and Auckland Drive, terminating at the bus layby at Lanchester Way, numbered 25 of course as is the trend, numbered 95.
Don't think that would go down well with passengers on the Washwood Heath Road, as it would miss out some of the busiest stops on the 94 route - including the main stop at Fox and Goose (City Centre bound stop). And would result in overcrowded 55's, leaving that service unable to cope, particularly if it was still being operated by the Omnilinks.
Could scrap the X70 and have a 70 service do this though. Since the X12 already seres Bromford.
Quote from: Stu on February 26, 2020, 08:17:16 PM
That was when it used to run all the way to Shirley Green Business Park, and prior to that there was the 3 to Solihull (via Streetsbrook Road) as well as the 3A to Acocks Green (via Gospel Oak).
The evening and Sunday service always only ran as far as Slade Lane (where it terminates now) as far as I can remember.
I just wonder how feasible it would be to extend daytime off-peak journeys to Shirley station, as its only a couple of minutes more away from the current terminus on Priory Road. I know I've seen a few comments on local Facebook groups from people who've said they'd find it useful.
At the moment, it terminates in the middle of nowhere. I'd probably use it on a Saturday as another option to get to Solihull or Shirley, alongside the 76.
The Sunday (daytime) service used to terminate on Hasluck's Green Road.
Did the 12 at some point terminate at The Baldwin?
Quote from: 2206 on February 26, 2020, 10:31:10 PM
Don't think that would go down well with passengers on the Washwood Heath Road, as it would miss out some of the busiest stops on the 94 route - including the main stop at Fox and Goose (City Centre bound stop). And possibly result in overcrowded 55's, leaving that service unable to cope.
Could scrap the X70 and have a 70 service do this though. Since the X12 already serves Bromford.
It would be an idea for the 70 to do this (well the non-Smith's Wood part at least). You've mentioned that there wasn't (and I don't think has ever in some time) been a link from Bromford Lane to Birmingham, which is what I was thinking of without introducing additional buses.
Regards the 224, I'd extend it to the Foxyards, then have it replace the 14 between Foxyards and Dudley.
That way the 14 could get linked in with one of the 126s or the 14A/24 and the 224 would reinstate the link that was withdrawn by Midland/Centro.
Quote from: 2206 on February 26, 2020, 10:31:10 PM
Does a loop at the minute I think. So would that use Moors Lane or Woodcock Lane if you extended it? Or use one, one way and one the other?
What new links would that create though?
Surely Bartley Green is already well served by the X22, 002 and 23.
Yes it does a one-way loop (which seem to be fashionable these days) around a small part of Bangham Pit.
Well it would re-link Selly Oak and Bartley Green again and more people in Weoley Castle would use it than the 002.
Plus it would help with the QE to Bartley Green link as the X22 can also be quite unreliable (perhaps some peak journies could go there in which case).
But even if it didn't go to Bartley Green there's no reason why it can't serve Bangham Pit in both directions surely.
Quote from: MasterPlan on February 27, 2020, 07:16:06 AM
Yes it does a one-way loop (which seem to be fashionable these days) around a small part of Bangham Pit.
Well it would re-link Selly Oak and Bartley Green again and more people in Weoley Castle would use it than the 002.
Plus it would help with the QE to Bartley Green link as the X22 can also be quite unreliable (perhaps some peak journies could go there in which case).
But even if it didn't go to Bartley Green there's no reason why it can't serve Bangham Pit in both directions surely.
I was surprised that the Bartley Green to Weoley Castle link wasn't retained by NXWM as this was a long-standing connection going back to the days of the 21, 448 and later X64.
Quote from: MasterPlan on February 27, 2020, 07:16:06 AM
Yes it does a one-way loop (which seem to be fashionable these days) around a small part of Bangham Pit.
Well it would re-link Selly Oak and Bartley Green again and more people in Weoley Castle would use it than the 002.
Plus it would help with the QE to Bartley Green link as the X22 can also be quite unreliable (perhaps some peak journies could go there in which case).
But even if it didn't go to Bartley Green there's no reason why it can't serve Bangham Pit in both directions surely.
I'm losing track how many times the Uni services have been changed/modified ever since they were introduced!
Quote from: Jack on February 28, 2020, 09:11:27 AM
I'm losing track how many times the Uni services have been changed/modified ever since they were introduced!
Well there was the 98/99 introduced around 2011/2012
When the 99 was withdrawn I believe the X64 was changed to serve the QE.
And now the most recent changes with the 98 and the X64 being withdrawn and the X20/21/22 being introduced.
Quote from: Jack on February 28, 2020, 09:11:27 AM
I'm losing track how many times the Uni services have been changed/modified ever since they were introduced!
Well there'd be no need to if it was done properly to begin with. There was no need to remove the link to Bartley Green in my opinion.
As for
@2206 comments about there already being 002, 23 and X22, that's not really relevant. You don't say what's the point of the 12 for example as you already have X amount of buses going from Birmingham to Dudley do you? It's not as simple as that.
Quote from: MasterPlan on February 28, 2020, 10:47:11 AM
Well there'd be no need to if it was done properly to begin with. There was no need to remove the link to Bartley Green in my opinion.
As for @2206 comments about there already being 002, 23 and X22, that's not really relevant. You don't say what's the point of the 12 for example as you already have X amount of buses going from Birmingham to Dudley do you? It's not as simple as that.
The X22 seems to be the most unreliable of the uni services in my opinion. Last night was running 15 minutes late coming back at 6pm from uni
Quote from: Busboy105 on February 28, 2020, 10:31:56 AM
Well there was the 98/99 introduced around 2011/2012
When the 99 was withdrawn I believe the X64 was changed to serve the QE.
And now the most recent changes with the 98 and the X64 being withdrawn and the X20/21/22 being introduced.
X64 was changed to serve the Uni.
It already served the QE I think, but ran along the Bristol Road.
Quote from: 2206 on February 28, 2020, 12:27:55 PM
X64 was changed to serve the Uni.
It already served the QE I think, but ran along the Bristol Road.
X64 hadn't served the QE until the 99 was withdrawn and replaced with the extended 244. The X62, which was introduced at the same time as the X64 - ultimately becoming the 98, did. Hope I've got that right! 😂
Quote from: CL on February 28, 2020, 01:10:32 PM
X64 hadn't served the QE until the 99 was withdrawn and replaced with the extended 244. The X62, which was introduced at the same time as the X64 - ultimately becoming the 98, did. Hope I've got that right! 😂
No you haven't. At one point the 98, 99 and X64 all served the QE. The X64 route changed so much it became farcical. It was changed to serve the QE again before the 99 was withdrawn.
Quote from: MasterPlan on February 28, 2020, 01:20:42 PM
No you haven't. At one point the 98, 99 and X64 all served the QE. The X64 route changed so much it became farcical. It was changed to serve the QE again before the 99 was withdrawn.
Remember how unreliable the 98 and 99 were. Can see why they got withdrawn
Quote from: CL on February 28, 2020, 01:10:32 PM
X64 hadn't served the QE until the 99 was withdrawn and replaced with the extended 244. The X62, which was introduced at the same time as the X64 - ultimately becoming the 98, did. Hope I've got that right! 😂
No X64 served the QE and ran via Bristol Road, prior to the reroute via the uni. 98/99 ran via the Uni.
Don't recall the X62 ever serving the QE, only the X64. Also think the X62 went via the Bristol Road unlike the 98. X62 used to terminate at the Town Hall as well, so never actually went into the City Centre.
Used to be the 636 that linked the City Centre with the University and QE prior to the introduction of the 98 and 99. So a very big increase in frequency and capacity with the branded platinums, compared to when the 636 branded B6LE ran on this corridor.
The X62 never served the QE.
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=671.msg12246#msg12246
^
Oh well 🤷♂️
Quote from: CL on February 28, 2020, 05:13:37 PM
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=671.msg12246#msg12246
^
Oh well 🤷♂️
I think the thread there was talking about the new 98 route, which was a re-routed X62 re-numbered to fit with the 99. To be fair, the amount of changes to the Bristol Road Express services, as they were badged then, was mind boggling. The X64 was re-routed 6 or 7 times before it bit the dust.
Quote from: CL on February 28, 2020, 05:13:37 PM
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=671.msg12246#msg12246
^
Oh well 🤷♂️
That was written 8 years ago
@CL, before the X64 served the QE.
It doesn't state anywhere in that thread that the X62 served the QE and it never did. The X62/X64 initially ran through Bournbrook, so very different route to what the 98 was, it was later on the X64 was rerouted to serve the QE. It was the 636 that served the QE and Uni and served the route that the X20/X21/X22 serve today.
Quote from: 2206 on February 28, 2020, 05:24:26 PM
That was written 8 years ago @CL, before the X64 served the QE.
It doesn't state anywhere in that thread that the X62 served the QE and it never has done. The X62/X64 ran through Bournbrook, so very different route to what the 98 was. At the time would have been the 636 that served the QE and Uni.
I remember they used Tridents were used as the allocation on the X64 when it initially went to Kitwell and Bartley Green. But it just took forever, don't think the frequency helped either. Now you have the ever long 48 going through everywhere at every 30 mins... do think it should be upped to at least 20 mins...
Tbf the X22 hasn't been changed much since the started, the X20 and X21 seem to be changed round the most, at least the X21 got Platinums eventually!
Quote from: Jack on February 28, 2020, 05:29:47 PM
Now you have the ever long 48 going through everywhere at every 30 mins... do think it should be upped to at least 20 mins...
Rarely use the 48. But when I've seen the 48 while waiting for the X20's at the Uni and QE heading towards Bearwood/West Brom they do always look very busy, so a better frequency of every 20 minutes might be a good idea.
I would withdraw the PB38 and have the 67 serve do it's Castle Vale loop. Great way to get more passengers on the route.
Maybe run the 14 via - Stechford Lane, Washwood Heath Road and Alum Rock Road. Instead of Burney Lane as well.
As stops at Stechford Lane and Alum Rock Road are very close to Burney Lane, I doubt many if anyone would be inconvenienced.
Might also gain a few extra passengers then creating a new link, to Fox and Goose. As very long walk down.
Never seen many people use the stop outside Washwood Heath School either.
Quote from: 2206 on February 29, 2020, 11:20:21 PM
Maybe run the 14 via - Stechford Lane, Washwood Heath Road and Alum Rock Road. Instead of Burney Lane as well.
As stops at Stechford Lane and Alum Rock Road are very close to Burney Lane, I doubt many if anyone would be inconvenienced.
Might also gain a few extra passengers then creating a new link.
Don't really see the point in that. That change you mentioned will just put more minutes on the route.
Quote from: Busboy105 on February 29, 2020, 11:22:45 PM
That change you mentioned will just put more minutes on the route.
Passengers going to the Pelham, who currently rely on the 28 would get a better service.
I've seen a number of people have to walk down to Alum Rock Road, from Fox and Goose, when I've used the 14 and its a long walk.
So would make it more convenient for these people, that's the point.
One stop would be missed out that nobody uses.
I don't think it would take much longer either heading away from Stechford Island.
Only heading towards Stechfod Island there can be lots of congestion, but maybe that will improve once the roadworks end.
Quote from: Busboy105 on February 29, 2020, 10:41:26 PM
I would withdraw the PB38 and have the 67 serve do it's Castle Vale loop. Great way to get more passengers on the route.
So completely miss out Tangemere Drive?
Quote from: 2206 on February 29, 2020, 11:25:33 PM
Passengers going to the Pelham, who currently rely on the 28 would get a better service.
I've seen a number of people have to walk down to Alum Rock Road, from Fox and Goose, when I've used the 14 and its a long walk.
So would make it more convenient for these people, that's the point.
One stop would be missed out that nobody uses.
I don't think it would take much longer either heading away from Stechford Island.
Only heading towards Stechfod Island there can be lots of congestion, but maybe that will improve once the roadworks end. So completely miss out Tangemere Drive?
It doesn't have to completely miss out Tangmere Drive.
Quote from: 2206 on February 28, 2020, 05:38:39 PM
Rarely use the 48. But when I've seen the 48 while waiting for the X20's at the Uni and QE heading towards Bearwood/West Brom they do always look very busy, so a better frequency of every 20 minutes might be a good idea.
How would that work for the Bearwood/Hurst Road - West Bromwich part of the route? Which needs at least 4 buses an hour
Quote from: 2206 on February 29, 2020, 11:25:33 PM
Passengers going to the Pelham, who currently rely on the 28 would get a better service.
I've seen a number of people have to walk down to Alum Rock Road, from Fox and Goose, when I've used the 14 and its a long walk.
So would make it more convenient for these people, that's the point.
One stop would be missed out that nobody uses.
I don't think it would take much longer either heading away from Stechford Island.
Only heading towards Stechfod Island there can be lots of congestion, but maybe that will improve once the roadworks end.
When the old, old 98 used to do this route (Alum Rock Road, Washwood Heath Road, Bromford Lane, Brockhurst Road), it would get stuck for a few minutes on the Washwood Heath Road doing the u-turn, as it is a left-turn only out of Alum Rock Road onto Washwood Heath Road. Without them changing that junction (which I don't see them doing, giving the proximity to the main crossroads), I can just see the 14 getting stuck here, especially with the way people park on Washwood Heath Road as well. The 98 sometimes had to shunt around the u-turn to get around.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 01, 2020, 05:46:44 AM
When the old, old 98 used to do this route (Alum Rock Road, Washwood Heath Road, Bromford Lane, Brockhurst Road), it would get stuck for a few minutes on the Washwood Heath Road doing the u-turn, as it is a left-turn only out of Alum Rock Road onto Washwood Heath Road. Without them changing that junction (which I don't see them doing, giving the proximity to the main crossroads), I can just see the 14 getting stuck here, especially with the way people park on Washwood Heath Road as well. The 98 sometimes had to shunt around the u-turn to get around.
The 25 uses that U turn and never seen any problem, though that tends to use small buses, solos. Seen 55E/94E's Omnilinks/Gemini turns round there as well and never seen any problem, never seen any get stuck doing the U turn.
And its something that i'd use myself as well.
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 01, 2020, 12:49:26 AM
It doesn't have to completely miss out Tangmere Drive.
What route would that take then?
Because the 67 uses Tangemere Drive, while the 38 uses Farmborough Road.
Quote from: 2206 on March 01, 2020, 08:22:24 AM
The 25 uses that U turn and never seen any problem, though that tends to use small buses, solos. Seen 55E/94E's Omnilinks/Gemini turns round there as well and never seen any problem, never seen any get stuck doing the U turn.
And its something that i'd use myself as well.What route would that take then?
Because the 67 uses Tangemere Drive, while the 38 uses Farmborough Road.
I didn't think this through. Checked Google Maps; there's no way the 67 can do a whole loop of Castle Vale without missing Tangmere Drive.
So I would bring back the old 56 (Birmingham to Kingshurst) and make it run between Birmingham and Castle Vale which can serve the 38 section of Castle Vale.
Gives passengers a new link to Castle Vale via Saltley and Ward End and could be faster than the 67.
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 01, 2020, 11:39:37 AM
I didn't think this through. Checked Google Maps; there's no way the 67 can do a whole loop of Castle Vale without missing Tangmere Drive.
So I would bring back the old 56 (Birmingham to Kingshurst) and make it run between Birmingham and Castle Vale which can serve the 38 section of Castle Vale.
Gives passengers a new link to Castle Vale via Saltley and Ward End and could be faster than the 67.
You could run a service to Castle Vale via Saltley and Ward End from the City Centre.
But how would it go to Kingshurst from Castle Vale? It have to go back on itself after serving the 38 route at Castle Vale surely?
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 01, 2020, 11:39:37 AM
I didn't think this through. Checked Google Maps; there's no way the 67 can do a whole loop of Castle Vale without missing Tangmere Drive.
So I would bring back the old 56 (Birmingham to Kingshurst) and make it run between Birmingham and Castle Vale which can serve the 38 section of Castle Vale.
Gives passengers a new link to Castle Vale via Saltley and Ward End and could be faster than the 67.
Or have the 71 go back to going down Farnborough Road, and the 67 can then do a full loop around Tangmere Drive/Yatesbury Avenue and the outskirts (ie the old 993C route around Castle Vale), then to the terminus if it was necessary for it to terminate in Castle Vale, or it could jump up onto the Kingsbury Road and toddle down to ASDA Minworth.
I cannot see how going via Ward End and Saltley will be any quicker than going down the Tyburn Road/Lichfield Road.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 01, 2020, 11:46:19 AM
Or have the 71 go back to going down Farnborough Road, and the 67 can then do a full loop around Tangmere Drive/Yatesbury Avenue and the outskirts (ie the old 993C route around Castle Vale), then to the terminus if it was necessary for it to terminate in Castle Vale, or it could jump up onto the Kingsbury Road and toddle down to ASDA Minworth.
71 was well used around Tangmere Drive when I used to use it.
Quote from: 2206 on March 01, 2020, 08:22:24 AM
The 25 uses that U turn and never seen any problem, though that tends to use small buses, solos. Seen 55E/94E's Omnilinks/Gemini turns round there as well and never seen any problem, never seen any get stuck doing the U turn.
And its something that i'd use myself as well.
If the buses can manage it better now, then I don't see the problem. Only issue then would be that I don't know if anywhere on Burney Lane would fall outside of the minimum distance to a bus stop thing that TfWM has.
Quote from: 2206 on March 01, 2020, 11:48:42 AM
71 was well used around Tangmere Drive when I used to use it.
It used to be well used when it went down Farnborough Road as well.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 01, 2020, 11:49:29 AM
If the buses can manage it better now, then I don't see the problem. Only issue then would be that I don't know if anywhere on Burney Lane would fall outside of the minimum distance to a bus stop thing that TfWM has.
Would the 28A not count a bus service on Burney Lane, as that stops at the stop outside Washwood Heath School and would connect it to Heartlands and Small Heath still?
Quote from: 2206 on March 01, 2020, 11:51:21 AM
Would the 28A not count a bus service on Burney Lane, as that stops at the stop outside Washwood Heath School and would connect it to Heartlands and Small Heath still?
If that still goes down there, then yea, it'd be fine. I'd forgot about that one to be honest.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 01, 2020, 11:52:42 AM
If that still goes down there, then yea, it'd be fine. I'd forgot about that one to be honest.
Surely parts of Brockhurst Road, Bromford Road, Madison Avenue, etc must be much further from a bus stop than Burney Lane would be aswell?
Even if the 28A didn't serve Burney Lane.
And what about Drews Lane, how would that not fall outside of the minimum distance.
Quote from: 2206 on March 01, 2020, 12:05:55 PM
Surely parts of Brockhurst Road, Bromford Road, Madison Avenue, etc must be much further from a bus stop than Burney Lane would be aswell?
The 25 covers those areas.
Having a little play on Google Maps, it seems that certain places on Cotterills Lane would fall foul of the 400 metre rule if there was no services on Burney Lane.
Although, it seems that they don't actively pursue this as they aim for that distance and I can't see everywhere being covered by it. https://www.tfwm.org.uk/operations/bus-services/
Quote from: ellspurs on March 01, 2020, 12:18:22 PM
The 25 covers those areas.
There are no stops around there though.
So as far as i'm aware it doesn't stop on Ventor Avenue? And you can't board the service there?
@Simon Dunn is this correct please?
And I doubt a lot of people in the area are even aware of the exsistence of the 25 service, to be honest. And maybe if they were aware of its existence and knew it stopped there, maybe someone would find it a useful service.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 01, 2020, 12:18:22 PM
Having a little play on Google Maps, it seems that certain places on Cotterills Lane would fall foul of the 400 metre rule if there was no services on Burney Lane.
The stops on Burney Lane are only round the corner from the stops on Stechford Lane surely. Google Maps tells me an extra minutes walk.
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 01, 2020, 11:39:37 AM
I didn't think this through. Checked Google Maps; there's no way the 67 can do a whole loop of Castle Vale without missing Tangmere Drive.
...
Totally could do a loop out via Farnborough Road and back via Tangmere Drive
Although more seriously I'd combine the 38 into the 167/168 circuit.
If the new NX X6 runs all day, it an take on the current tendered section of the 167 Erdington - Asda and the 167 can be routed via Castle Vale instead
Quote from: 2206 on March 01, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
There are no stops around there though.
So as far as i'm aware it doesn't stop on Ventor Avenue? And you can't board the service there? @Simon Dunn is this correct?
And I doubt a lot of people in the area are even aware of the exsistence of the 25 service, to be honest.
The Diamond website shows the bus goes straight down Coleshill Road then up Ventor Avenue, with the first stop on Collingbourne Avenue.
The West Midlands Network map shows the bus going up Brockhurst Road/Madison Avenue/Ventor Avenue.
Which of those is right?
The 98 used to do Hail and Ride on Brockhurst Road when it went up there, if the 25 goes up there now is this no longer the case?
Quote from: 2206 on March 01, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
The stops on Burney Lane are only round the corner from the stops on Stechford Lane surely. Google Maps tells me an extra minutes walk.
I looked on Google at that, and at the deeper points of Cotterills Lane (by the double roundabout) it would be further away from the bus stops on Stechford Lane. Although, that they don't seem to rigidly follow that any more, it doesn't really matter.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 01, 2020, 12:30:28 PM
The Diamond website shows the bus goes straight down Coleshill Road then up Ventor Avenue, with the first stop on Collingbourne Avenue.
The West Midlands Network map shows the bus going up Brockhurst Road/Madison Avenue/Ventor Avenue.
Which of those is right?
The 98 used to do Hail and Ride on Brockhurst Road when it went up there, if the 25 goes up there now is this no longer the case?
Think the Diamond Website is correct I believe, as that's the route I've seen it use in the past.
And similarly strange that there it doesn't call at the stop outside Tesco on Coleshill Road.
Quote from: 2206 on March 01, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
There are no stops around there though.
So as far as i'm aware it doesn't stop on Ventor Avenue? And you can't board the service there? @Simon Dunn is this correct please?
The last stop to get on the Diamond 25 is on Collingbourne Avenue by one of the side roads Standlake I believe & it doesn't stop then until the Fox & Goose (94/55 stop) & the same heading back to Erdington though it travels straight down Coleshill Road to the island by the Hunters before turning on to Bromford Road then Collingbourne Ave for its first stop
@2206 @ellspurs
Quote from: Squiz1971 on March 01, 2020, 12:39:14 PM
The last stop to get on the Diamond 25 is on Collingbourne Avenue by one of the side roads Standlake I believe & it doesn't stop then until the Fox & Goose (94/55 stop) & the same heading back to Erdington though it travels straight down Coleshill Road to the island by the Hunters before turning on to Bromford Road then Collingbourne Ave for its first stop @2206
Thanks for the info.
Would be a good idea to change the service in that case.
I'm sure some would benefit if they knew the service existed. As running non-stop serves nobody.
Quote from: 2206 on March 01, 2020, 12:44:13 PM
Thanks for the info.
Would be a good idea to change the service in that case.
I'm sure some would benefit if they knew the service existed. As running non-stop serves nobody.
When I have used it as I live off Collingbourne & my Mom it is normally the elderly or the older generation that seem to use the 25
Just To clarify is the peak only X16 from Tamworth to Brum well used Particularly in the Kingsbury Area? If so Would it be worth extending the X70 to Kingsbury during the day? I heard the 116 really declined over the years hence it's withdrawal back in 2016. I know central buses tried to make it work by making it more direct but still it ended up being cut.
Quote from: BusMan Greg on March 01, 2020, 09:22:47 PM
Just To clarify is the peak only X16 from Tamworth to Brum well used Particularly in the Kingsbury Area? If so Would it be worth extending the X70 to Kingsbury during the day? I heard the 116 really declined over the years hence it's withdrawal back in 2016. I know central buses tried to make it work by making it more direct but still it ended up being cut.
Will you extend it from Chelmsley Wood to Kingsbury?
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 01, 2020, 10:19:23 PM
Will you extend it from Chelmsley Wood to Kingsbury?
I would divert one journey every hour via The Lichfield road in Water Orton which would lead to The Kingsbury Road. It would then reach Kingsbury itself and do a loop around the village which would leave the village on Piccadily Way. The X70 would then go direct to Coleshill via Station Road and Blythe Road. I would Number these Kingsbury journeys the 70 as it isn't as direct like the original X70.
Quote from: 2206 on February 29, 2020, 11:20:21 PM
Maybe run the 14 via - Stechford Lane, Washwood Heath Road and Alum Rock Road. Instead of Burney Lane as well.
As stops at Stechford Lane and Alum Rock Road are very close to Burney Lane, I doubt many if anyone would be inconvenienced.
Might also gain a few extra passengers then creating a new link, to Fox and Goose. As very long walk down.
Never seen many people use the stop outside Washwood Heath School either.
what I would do is introduce a 14A which runs every 30 minutes providing a link to fox and goose from Stechford and kitts green and the way I would do is when it comes up to Burney Lane right into Stechford lane left at fox and goose stop at 28 stop that way passengers have a link to fox and goose from Stechford then on the way back there would be no point running it down alum rock road as there will be no stops anyway and take it up Burney lane like the 28 and 28A
I would extend the BY17 to Chelmsley Wood. I never understood why it doesn't go all the way down there (the furthest it's been is Marston Green Station). Brings a new link to Chelmsley Wood via Yardley and Garretts Green. Or introduce a 17A that will run alongside the 17. The 17 struggles with overcrowding and reliability (that bit I will never understand. Doesn't run into traffic that often could be how much time they get at Birmingham and Tile Cross). I know that routes that run alongside the 17 don't last very long i.e. the 13,15 and the 73 but having lived on the route for over 10 years, something needs to happen to the route.
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 08, 2020, 10:48:15 PM
I would extend the BY17 to Chelmsley Wood. I never understood why it doesn't go all the way down there (the furthest it's been is Marston Green Station). Brings a new link to Chelmsley Wood via Yardley and Garretts Green. Or introduce a 17A that will run alongside the 17. The 17 struggles with overcrowding and reliability (that bit I will never understand. Doesn't run into traffic that often could be how much time they get at Birmingham and Tile Cross). I know that routes that run alongside the 17 don't last very long i.e. the 13,15 and the 73 but having lived on the route for over 10 years, something needs to happen to the route.
I'm sorry I don't agree with extending the 17 to Chelmsley Wood, it make reliability even worse, I lived on the route for 23 years (1970-1993) and I went on the 17 a few weeks ago and what I noticed was a lot more parked (not all sensibly either) cars making manoeuvring a lot more difficult. Garretts Green is linked to Chelmsley Wood by the 72, Yardley was linked by the old 590 (previously 59 and 161/171 before that) it never carried much. To be honest I would consider terminating some of the 17's at The Radleys.
Well I was also thinking that if it struggles to cope the introduction of some timetabled 17E journeys are the answer.
Bring the 55A back but on the way to city take it down bromford lane at fox and goose then onto drews lane right onto washwood Heath road then a left onto highfield road then right onto alum rock road so there is a service supporting the 14 there and then same way as normal 55 into city
Quote from: SK68MEV on March 09, 2020, 09:09:50 PM
Bring the 55A back but on the way to city take it down bromford lane at fox and goose then onto drews lane right onto washwood Heath road then a left onto highfield road then right onto alum rock road so there is a service supporting the 14 there and then same way as normal 55 into city
The 55 (and 26) got took off Alum Rock Road as there was too many delays caused by the parking of the people using the road.
Not seen a full 14 on the route outside of peak hours, so I dunno if the additional capacity is warranted.
I'd revise the PN2 so it'd run every 15, with alternate off peak 2A buses being replaced by service 2, and the 2A running direct via Ashenhurst Road and then to Eve Hill, with the 5 diverting via Middlepark Road and Corbyn Road
I'd also tweak the PN7 so the evening shorts run as a 7A direct from Lye Cross to Stourbridge via the 9 route instead of terminating at Wynall, which would also be useful for if drivers needed a PNB as Stourbridge has staff facilities. To do this, Lye High Street would not be served on these journeys as the 7A from Merry Hill would turn right at Lye Cross
Finally I would split the 8 at Stourbridge and have Wollaston served by a route which would interwork with the xx05 28s during the daytime and run self contained at night as part of the 9 rota.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 10, 2020, 03:29:22 AM
Not seen a full 14 on the route outside of peak hours, so I dunno if the additional capacity is warranted.
I have seen it full outside of peak hours leaving the City Centre in the afternoon, plenty of times.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 10, 2020, 03:29:22 AM
The 55 (and 26) got took off Alum Rock Road as there was too many delays caused by the parking of the people using the road.
Maybe it could operate as a separate 15 service - every 20 minutes, then it won't cause any problems on the 55.
Quote from: the trainbasher on March 10, 2020, 07:05:39 AM
I'd revise the PN2 so it'd run every 15, with alternate off peak 2A buses being replaced by service 2, and the 2A running direct via Ashenhurst Road and then to Eve Hill, with the 5 diverting via Middlepark Road and Corbyn Road
I'd also tweak the PN7 so the evening shorts run as a 7A direct from Lye Cross to Stourbridge via the 9 route instead of terminating at Wynall, which would also be useful for if drivers needed a PNB as Stourbridge has staff facilities. To do this, Lye High Street would not be served on these journeys as the 7A from Merry Hill would turn right at Lye Cross
Finally I would split the 8 at Stourbridge and have Wollaston served by a route which would interwork with the xx05 28s during the daytime and run self contained at night as part of the 9 rota.
So where would the extra buses go to if the 2 gets reduced?
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 10, 2020, 09:14:26 AM
So where would the extra buses go to if the 2 gets reduced?
The 2 would actually get an off peak increase which would require an extra bus (nick a trident to cover that board with a E200 off it running off to cover evening Wollaston Farms?)
Quote from: 2206 on March 10, 2020, 07:47:53 AM
I have seen it full outside of peak hours leaving the City Centre in the afternoon, plenty of times.Maybe it could operate as a separate 15 service - every 20 minutes, then it won't cause any problems on the 55.
i put reintroduce the 55A and take it that way or we could introduce a whole new 15 route to Erdington providing a link as well as the 11 to fox and goose and to alum rock I think it would be a good route via alum rock highfield road dress lane and bromford lane and get it to terminate at six ways island
Quote from: SK68MEV on March 10, 2020, 06:17:08 PM
i put reintroduce the 55A and take it that way or we could introduce a whole new 15 route to Erdington providing a link as well as the 11 to fox and goose and to alum rock I think it would be a good route via alum rock highfield road dress lane and bromford lane and get it to terminate at six ways island
What's the point in that? Ward End is well served by a higher in frequency 11 Outer Circle plus there are faster routes to Erdington from town (X3,X4,X5)
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 10, 2020, 06:58:55 PM
What's the point in that? Ward End is well served by a higher in frequency 11 Outer Circle plus there are faster routes to Erdington from town (X3,X4,X5)
Think he means a Washwood Heath/Alum Rock to Erdington link.
At present you have to change at Ward End on the 55/94 or Stechford on the 14.
No idea if there's much demand for a direct link to Erdington.
Though didn't understand the route personally as Fox and Goose was mentioned.
Maybe means Alum Rock Road, Highfield Road, Washwood Heath Road, Bromford Lane, then 11 route to Erdington. And also linking the Bromford Lane area to City Centre.
If he meant Drews Lane as a connection to the 11. That doesn't sound a better connection than changing from the 14 onto the 28. Maybe a bit worse as you have to cross the dual carriageway, at least the 14 and 28 stop at the same stop.
Quote from: 2206 on March 10, 2020, 07:00:22 PM
Think he means a Washwood Heath/Alum Rock to Erdington link.
At present you have to change at Ward End on the 55/94 or Stechford on the 14.
No idea if there's much demand for a direct link to Erdington.
Though didn't understand the route personally as Fox and Goose was mentioned.
Maybe means Alum Rock Road, Highfield Road, Washwood Heath Road, Bromford Lane, then 11 route to Erdington. And also linking the Bromford Lane area to City Centre.
If he meant Drews Lane as a connection to the 11. That doesn't sound a better connection than changing from the 14 onto the 28. Maybe a bit worse as you have to cross the dual carriageway, at least the 14 and 28 stop at the same stop.
Don't think there is a demand for a direct link to Erdington. Like I said, the 11 is a good link to Erdington from Ward End. Also I don't think sending down a bus through Highfield Road is a good idea now. It's been almost 10 years since the 26 was withdrawn. If NX wanted to send a route down there, they would have already.
Quote from: 2206 on March 10, 2020, 07:00:22 PM
Think he means a Washwood Heath/Alum Rock to Erdington link.
At present you have to change at Ward End on the 55/94 or Stechford on the 14.
No idea if there's much demand for a direct link to Erdington.
Though didn't understand the route personally as Fox and Goose was mentioned.
Maybe means Alum Rock Road, Highfield Road, Washwood Heath Road, Bromford Lane, then 11 route to Erdington. And also linking the Bromford Lane area to City Centre.
If he meant Drews Lane as a connection to the 11. That doesn't sound a better connection than changing from the 14 onto the 28. Maybe a bit worse as you have to cross the dual carriageway, at least the 14 and 28 stop at the same stop.
I meant it going down dress lane and left onto bromford lane
I'd amend the 1A to turn off onto Pershore Road instead of Bristol Road, and run via Selly Park, Raddlebarn Road and Selly Oak to the QE instead. Granted this should probably wait until the whole junction at Selly Oak is remodelled and likely to require an extra vehicle but just a thought
Quote from: Kevin on March 14, 2020, 09:43:54 AM
I'd amend the 1A to turn off onto Pershore Road instead of Bristol Road, and run via Selly Park, Raddlebarn Road and Selly Oak to the QE instead. Granted this should probably wait until the whole junction at Selly Oak is remodelled and likely to require an extra vehicle but just a thought
Why?
Quote from: Kevin on March 14, 2020, 09:43:54 AM
I'd amend the 1A to turn off onto Pershore Road instead of Bristol Road, and run via Selly Park, Raddlebarn Road and Selly Oak to the QE instead. Granted this should probably wait until the whole junction at Selly Oak is remodelled and likely to require an extra vehicle but just a thought
That would be even worse considering the traffic situation at Selly Oak. Plus that part is served by the 76 anyway which operates at a higher frequency than the 1A.
Quote from: MasterPlan on March 14, 2020, 10:42:35 AM
Why?
Better links for the Selly Park and Raddlebarn Road areas.
Current route of the 1A doesn't really provide much other than the link to uni/QE, this would just be building on that and providing more useful links for student populations and the new housing on the old Selly Oak Hospital site
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 14, 2020, 11:24:17 AM
That would be even worse considering the traffic situation at Selly Oak. Plus that part is served by the 76 anyway which operates at a higher frequency than the 1A.
That's why I suggested after the remodeling of the junction. This route would take it to the end of Raddlebarn Road and over the Bristol Road from Oak Tree Lane instead of the old 76 route where the worst of the traffic is. Yes the 76 briefly touches Raddlebarn Road but heads down the Bournbrook area
Quote from: Busboy105 on March 14, 2020, 11:24:17 AM
That would be even worse considering the traffic situation at Selly Oak. Plus that part is served by the 76 anyway which operates at a higher frequency than the 1A.
No, it doesn't, both routes are every 20 minutes
I'd imagine it's unlikely that NXWM would run a service along the length of Raddlebarn Road given the congestion issues that occur during the rush hour periods.
However, the suggestion has prompted me to wonder whether the 1A and/or 76 may be routed through Selly Oak once the current roadworks are completed - a bus gate turning left from the widened Harborne Lane onto the city-bound carriageway of the Bristol Road is in the plans and 3 shelters have already been erected outside the old Sainsbury's store. As things stand only the 61/63/144 would serve these.
I would change the PN5, PN5A, WN15, WN15A, PNX10
5 Would replace the 5A doing the full route between Dudley and Wall Heath
5A would be Withdrawn
15 would run the current route till Kingswinford and wot would terminate are Manor Park
15A would be renumbered 21 and run Every hour every day on the current 15A route to Wolverhampton
I would Extend the X10 to replace the 15 between Kingswinford to Wolverhampton. No longer serving Gornal Wood. It will run with Platinums
5 and 15 run by PN
21 and X10 run by WN
5 - Dudley - Pensnett - Wall Heath Every 60 Mins
15 Merry Hill - Bromley - Kingswinford Manor Park. Every 20 Mins
21 Merry Hill - Bromley - Kingswinford - A449 - Spring Hill - Wolverhampton. Every 60 Mins
X10 Birmingham - Hagley Road - Halesowen - Cradley Heath - Merry Hill - Russles Hall Hospital - Kingswinford - Wombourne - Spring Hill - Wolverhampton. Every 20 Mins
I've always been curious about the Kidderminster 9, has an extension up to Stourbridge ever been considered? I mean, it's not far from Caunsall to the A451 and Norton, or indeed up to Kinver and link up with the 228
Quote from: SO6597 on March 15, 2020, 12:26:57 AM
I'd imagine it's unlikely that NXWM would run a service along the length of Raddlebarn Road given the congestion issues that occur during the rush hour periods.
However, the suggestion has prompted me to wonder whether the 1A and/or 76 may be routed through Selly Oak once the current roadworks are completed - a bus gate turning left from the widened Harborne Lane onto the city-bound carriageway of the Bristol Road is in the plans and 3 shelters have already been erected outside the old Sainsbury's store. As things stand only the 61/63/144 would serve these.
Two routes have run Pershore Road, Upland Road, Raddlebarn Road - Central Liner's 43 and Your Bus 54Y. Both were run by TWM after these companies became part of the main operation.
I'd tweak the 226 so it would go back to every 15, but with alternate journeys running direct along Lawnswood Road to Cot Lane (numbered 225), with the 226 (daytime) avoiding Wordsley Hospital, Swan Lane and Hawbush Road.
The night/Sunday service I would change to 226A and keep as current Line of Route.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on April 21, 2020, 10:53:15 PM
Two routes have run Pershore Road, Upland Road, Raddlebarn Road - Central Liner's 43 and Your Bus 54Y. Both were run by TWM after these companies became part of the main operation.
Yes and Pete's Travel ran the 54 briefly in late 2001/Spring 2002 but the service had very low usage and hasn't been back since.
I would do a Wolverhampton routes
(AMENDMENTS TO CURRENT ROUTES I WOULD DO) (ONLY INCLUDING ROUTES THAT I WOULD CHANGE)
2 Warstones - Bushbury Hill - Reduced to Every 10 Minutes
3 Castlecroft - Fordhouses - This route would serve to Wolverhampton Bus Stn at Stand N. This route would no longer serve Market Street but now will serve Bilston Street and exit the Bus Station via Pipers Row and will go towards The Grand Theatre towards Fordhouses ONLY. 3 to Castlecroft will not be affected
4 i54 - Wolverhampton - This route would serve to Wolverhampton Bus Stn at Stand N. This route would no longer serve Market Street but now will serve Bilston Street and exit the Bus Station via Pipers Row and will go towards The Grand Theatre
5 Codsall - Wolverhampton - Reduce to Every 20 Minutes
5A Codsall - Wolverhampton - More Journeys Reduced to Every 60 Mins
6 Wobaston - Wolverhampton - I would change this route at i54. From i54 Every 20 Minutes run to Wobaston, and Every 20 Minutes Running to Pendeford Business Park
6A Wobaston - Wolverhampton - I would Withdrawn this route
10 Perton - Wolverhampton - I would extend the 10 to Codsall Every 60 Minutes
10B Codsall - Wolverhampton - I would replace this route with the 10
25 Pendeford - Wolverhampton - It would no longer serve Goldthorn Park and will run via Goldthorn Hill Road. Goldthorn Park will still be served by 26A, 27 and 27A
54 Wolverhampton - i54 - This route would be renumbered to 4A
61 Goldthorn Park - Wolverhampton - I would withdraw this route
62 Compton - Wolverhampton- I Would Extend this route to castlecroft
529 Walsall - Wolverhampton - I would renumber this route to 26
(NEW ROUTES THAT I WOULD DO)
2A Bushbury Hill - Wombourne (Poolhouse Estate) via Park Lane, Wolverhampton, Coalway Road & Spring Hill
Every 30 Minutes and run Every 60 Minutes Evenings and Sundays
This route would follow the 2 Coalway Road then Warstones Road then follow the 15 to the New Inn Pub in Wombourne then go Ounsdale Road - Poolhouse Road and then Terminate on Millfields Way (One way along Millfields Way)
4A Wolverhampton - i54 via Pendeford Business Park
Every 60 Mins Monday - Saturday Daytime ONLY
Would run the same route as the current 54 but it will interwork with the 4
26 Wolverhampton - Walsall (Platinum Route)
Will run at the same route and timetable as the current 529
Quote from: BH2004 on April 23, 2020, 11:55:38 AM
I would do a Wolverhampton routes
(AMENDMENTS TO CURRENT ROUTES I WOULD DO) (ONLY INCLUDING ROUTES THAT I WOULD CHANGE)
2 Warstones - Bushbury Hill - Reduced to Every 10 Minutes
3 Castlecroft - Fordhouses - This route would serve to Wolverhampton Bus Stn at Stand N. This route would no longer serve Market Street but now will serve Bilston Street and exit the Bus Station via Pipers Row and will go towards The Grand Theatre towards Fordhouses ONLY. 3 to Castlecroft will not be affected
4 i54 - Wolverhampton - This route would serve to Wolverhampton Bus Stn at Stand N. This route would no longer serve Market Street but now will serve Bilston Street and exit the Bus Station via Pipers Row and will go towards The Grand Theatre
5 Codsall - Wolverhampton - Reduce to Every 20 Minutes
5A Codsall - Wolverhampton - More Journeys Reduced to Every 60 Mins
6 Wobaston - Wolverhampton - I would change this route at i54. From i54 Every 20 Minutes run to Wobaston, and Every 20 Minutes Running to Pendeford Business Park
6A Wobaston - Wolverhampton - I would Withdrawn this route
10 Perton - Wolverhampton - I would extend the 10 to Codsall Every 60 Minutes
10B Codsall - Wolverhampton - I would replace this route with the 10
25 Pendeford - Wolverhampton - It would no longer serve Goldthorn Park and will run via Goldthorn Hill Road. Goldthorn Park will still be served by 26A, 27 and 27A
54 Wolverhampton - i54 - This route would be renumbered to 4A
61 Goldthorn Park - Wolverhampton - I would withdraw this route
62 Compton - Wolverhampton- I Would Extend this route to castlecroft
529 Walsall - Wolverhampton - I would renumber this route to 26
(NEW ROUTES THAT I WOULD DO)
2A Bushbury Hill - Wombourne (Poolhouse Estate) via Park Lane, Wolverhampton, Coalway Road & Spring Hill
Every 30 Minutes and run Every 60 Minutes Evenings and Sundays
This route would follow the 2 Coalway Road then Warstones Road then follow the 15 to the New Inn Pub in Wombourne then go Ounsdale Road - Poolhouse Road and then Terminate on Millfields Way (One way along Millfields Way)
4A Wolverhampton - i54 via Pendeford Business Park
Every 60 Mins Monday - Saturday Daytime ONLY
Would run the same route as the current 54 but it will interwork with the 4
26 Wolverhampton - Walsall (Platinum Route)
Will run at the same route and timetable as the current 529
61 is subsidised, so has to run unless TfWM decide otherwise. With regards to the 10, there isn't much of a demand for a service between Perton & Codsall, so I don't think your proposed hourly frequency would be sustainable. I like the idea of the 3 & 4 serving the bus station, however this would increase running time and the rise in delays caused by stand congestion etc, which is why they don't do this currently.
I would split the WN1 into 2 sections, as it was before 2012:
Section 1: Wolverhampton - Tettenhall (would remain numbered 1 to fit in with WN network). Would run every 12 mins.
Section 2: Wolverhampton - Dudley (Could be numbered 28 to fit in with the 27/A running a similar route to Sedgley). This route would serve the bus station every 10 mins.
This would be to avoid reliability issues, caused by traffic on Tettenhall Road. Also, you never see many people travelling across the city, for example most people use either the Tettenhall section or the Dudley section, so it makes sense to split it.
Routes that I would change
101 - 56
126 - 26
529 - 21
907 - 90
907A - 90A
934 - X34
935 - X35
936 - X36
937 - X37
937A - X38
997 - X6
WN20 (New route)
Wolverhampton to Dudley.
Every 30 Minutes Monday to Saturday and every 60 mins evening and sundays
between Wolverhampton Bus Station, Penn Road, Coalway Road, Warstones Road, Stourbridge Road, Kingswinford Cross, Pensnett, Russles Hall Hospital and Dudley
linking Wolverhampton and Russles Hall Hospital
WN10B would be withdrawn
WN5 would be reduced to every 20 mins
WN5A would be withdrawn
Quote from: BH2004 on May 01, 2020, 11:17:46 PM
Routes that I would change
101 - 56
126 - 26
529 - 21
907 - 90
907A - 90A
934 - X34
935 - X35
936 - X36
937 - X37
937A - X38
997 - X6
WN20 (New route)
Wolverhampton to Dudley.
Every 30 Minutes Monday to Saturday and every 60 mins evening and sundays
between Wolverhampton Bus Station, Penn Road, Coalway Road, Warstones Road, Stourbridge Road, Kingswinford Cross, Pensnett, Russles Hall Hospital and Dudley
linking Wolverhampton and Russles Hall Hospital
WN10B would be withdrawn
WN5 would be reduced to every 20 mins
WN5A would be withdrawn
Why would you renumber the 101 and 529?
I'm pretty sure there's an X35 in Walsall which is probably the reason why 934,935,936 and 937/A haven't been renumbered yet.
X6 is already taken: it's gonna be the new 108 when NX get the tender in a couple of weeks time.
Quote from: Busboy105 on May 02, 2020, 12:18:58 AM
Why would you renumber the 101 and 529?
I'm pretty sure there's an X35 in Walsall which is probably the reason why 934,935,936 and 937/A haven't been renumbered yet.
X6 is already taken: it's gonna be the new 108 when NX get the tender in a couple of weeks time.
Isn't the 108 now the X15.
I've always thought the X6 would be a good fit for the Arriva 110.
Quote from: Busboy105 on May 02, 2020, 12:18:58 AM
X6 is already taken: it's gonna be the new 108 when NX get the tender in a couple of weeks time.
You mean the X15?
Quote from: Busboy105 on May 02, 2020, 12:18:58 AM
I'm pretty sure there's an X35 in Walsall which is probably the reason why 934,935,936 and 937/A haven't been renumbered yet.
Not that I can see.
Quote from: 2206 on May 02, 2020, 12:21:25 AM
You mean the X15?
It's X15? I swear I saw that it's gonna be renumbered X6.
Quote from: BH2004 on May 01, 2020, 11:17:46 PM
Routes that I would change
101 - 56
126 - 26
529 - 21
907 - 90
907A - 90A
934 - X34
935 - X35
936 - X36
937 - X37
937A - X38
997 - X6
WN20 (New route)
Wolverhampton to Dudley.
Every 30 Minutes Monday to Saturday and every 60 mins evening and sundays
between Wolverhampton Bus Station, Penn Road, Coalway Road, Warstones Road, Stourbridge Road, Kingswinford Cross, Pensnett, Russles Hall Hospital and Dudley
linking Wolverhampton and Russles Hall Hospital
WN10B would be withdrawn
WN5 would be reduced to every 20 mins
WN5A would be withdrawn
WN5 is already every 20 minutes
Quote from: Busboy105 on May 02, 2020, 12:18:58 AM
Why would you renumber the 101 and 529?
I'm pretty sure there's an X35 in Walsall which is probably the reason why 934,935,936 and 937/A haven't been renumbered yet.
X6 is already taken: it's gonna be the new 108 when NX get the tender in a couple of weeks time.
There's no X35 showing on the Network West Midlands website, unless they're hiding all temp. withdrawn buses.
Also, companies don't seem to care if numbers clash any more, so it wouldn't be a problem.
Quote from: ellspurs on May 02, 2020, 03:30:27 AM
There's no X35 showing on the Network West Midlands website, unless they're hiding all temp. withdrawn buses.
Also, companies don't seem to care if numbers clash any more, so it wouldn't be a problem.
There used to be a couple of journeys on the 35 between Walsall and Lichfield numbered X35 which just went straight up the A461 but those don't run anymore or if they do are just numbered 35 like the rest of the service.
Quote from: Busboy105 on May 02, 2020, 12:18:58 AM
Why would you renumber the 101 and 529?
I'm pretty sure there's an X35 in Walsall which is probably the reason why 934,935,936 and 937/A haven't been renumbered yet.
X6 is already taken: it's gonna be the new 108 when NX get the tender in a couple of weeks time.
NX have already got the tender, it started on Monday. The TfWM website said it was going to be numbered X6, but was numbered. X15 for some reason.
Why renumber the 101?
Quote from: Lukeee on May 02, 2020, 10:51:17 PM
Why renumber the 101?
Because everything needs to be in two-digit format! Apparently.
The 529 is a nice use of the pre-WMPTE route numbers along that route. The joint Walsall and Wolverhampton trolleybus (bus after 1965) route was the 29. Wolverhampton also operated short journeys as far as Willenhall which was the 5.
Quote from: ellspurs on May 03, 2020, 10:07:45 AM
Because everything needs to be in two-digit format! Apparently.
They say that 1 or 2 digit numbers are easier to remember & 'simplify' the network. If anything, it makes it more confusing in my opinion as people will have been used to say the 222 for years, but when a 2 turns up, they have no idea.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 03, 2020, 04:02:58 PM
They say that 1 or 2 digit numbers are easier to remember & 'simplify' the network. If anything, it makes it more confusing in my opinion as people will have been used to say the 222 for years, but when a 2 turns up, they have no idea.
I never heard anyone confused by the X20 or X2, or asking where the 98 and 957 where.
Other than some initial confusion, I think people get used to it.
If anyone hadn't realised that the 222 was renumbered nearly 2 years ago, they clearly don't travel very often and should check before they travel anyway.
First in Worcester seem not to have need for this trendy renumbering habit so popular in the West Midlands County. The majority of services still use the same service or similar numbers on hwhat is left of the network of The Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Company Limited albiet without a "W" prefix. I am not aware of a clamour to simplify the service numbers of First Midland Red to the company, indeed it is noticable FirstGroup have always maintained the link to the historic fleetname in the offical company title. Passengers seem quite happy with what they are familiar with in Worcestershire. May I also echo Tony's post and remind everyone that the current bus network in England is for essential use only and to thank Tony and everyone working in the industry at such a difficult time.
Quote from: 2206 on May 03, 2020, 04:26:19 PM
I never heard anyone confused by the X20 or X2, or asking where the 98 and 957 where.
Other than some initial confusion, I think people get used to it.
If anyone hadn't realised that the 222 was renumbered nearly 2 years ago, they clearly don't travel very often and should check before they travel anyway.
Obviously I knew that the 222 was renumbered 2 years ago, as I use it sometimes. I was referring to when the service was renumbered 2 years ago, it caused confusion with passengers. This doesn't just go for the 222, but for most services. Even today, some people still get confused and don't see why they've been changed. They just change them for changes sake!
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 03, 2020, 05:53:57 PM
Even today, some people still get confused and don't see why they've been changed. They just change them for changes sake!
I can't see why it would be confusing in the long term - I think most people are able to get used to a route number change. Particularly if for the past 2 years, they have been using the service regularly.
I think the route numbers 19, X20, X21, X22, 23, 24, 25 do fit in with each other more than 244, 10H, 98 and X64 ever did.
I doubt they'd change things for the sake of it/without any reason either?
Quote from: 2206 on May 03, 2020, 07:06:06 PM
I can't see why it would be confusing in the long term - I think most people are able to get used to a route number change. Particularly if for the past 2 years, they have been using the service regularly.
I think the route numbers X20, X21, X22, 23, 24, 25 do fit in with each other more than 10H, 98 and X64 ever did.
I doubt they'd change things for the sake of it/without any reason either?
This reminds me that there are now three separate route 25 services found on the Birmingham area map alone.
Quote from: ellspurs on May 03, 2020, 07:40:29 PM
This reminds me that there are now three separate route 25 services found on the Birmingham area map alone.
This is another reason why it is confusing. For example, you've got four services numbered 5 across the NX network in Wolves, Dudley, West Brom & Birmingham. I think the old numbering system they used (2xx for Dudley, 3xx for Walsall, 4xx for West Brom & 5xx for Wolves) worked effectively, as it ensured no confusion between the different services in each area.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 03, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
This is another reason why it is confusing. For example, you've got four services numbered 5 across the NX network in Wolves, Dudley, West Brom & Birmingham. I think the old numbering system they used (2xx for Dudley, 3xx for Walsall, 4xx for West Brom & 5xx for Wolves) worked effectively, as it ensured no confusion between the different services in each area.
I used to think that as well, but things have moved on now and some numbering sequences work quite well now like all buses going towards Sparkbrook which are 2, 3, 4, 4A, 5 and 6, buses to Bearwood are now X8, 9, X10, 12, 12A, 13 and 13A. As for Walsall, West Bromwich and Wolverhampton they're just going back to local numbers as they originally were. The world of buses in the West Midlands has moved on, this numbering debate is pointless. It's time to move on !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on May 03, 2020, 08:25:37 PM
I used to think that as well, but things have moved on now and some numbering sequences work quite well now like all buses going towards Sparkbrook which are 2, 3, 4, 4A, 5 and 6, buses to Bearwood are now X8, 9, X10, 12, 12A, 13 and 13A. As for Walsall, West Bromwich and Wolverhampton they're just going back to local numbers as they originally were. The world of buses in the West Midlands has moved on, this numbering debate is pointless. It's time to move on !
And all buses to Worcester are 144, with 3 digits how on earth do intending passengers cope within the West Midlands County with a service that has had the same route number for over 100 years it must be hell coping with a bus service with 3 numbers as its destination.
Quote from: ellspurs on May 03, 2020, 07:40:29 PM
This reminds me that there are now three separate route 25 services found on the Birmingham area map alone.
They are looking at cutting the Birmingham map up. So perhaps the current 3 separate 25 routes will not be all on one map anymore. Don't know when that will be though. Will let everyone know on here when I do!!
Whilst unpopular originally the new numbering system is here to stay it seems.
I think if routes reviewed / renumbered just once it wouldn't be too much of a problem but the old 636 has been the 636, 99, 244, 19 as things have chopped and changed.
Similarly the 62 became the X62, 98 And then X20 so perhaps the frequency of these changes is more of an issue.
The X64 became silly in the end - it changed so frequently.
Quote from: sonic84 on May 04, 2020, 08:18:52 AM
Similarly the 62 became the X62, 98 And then X20 so perhaps the frequency of these changes is more of an issue.
The X64 became silly in the end - it changed so frequently.
But there was a 6 year gap between the 98 and X20 being introduced - so not like it happened in a short space of time. Wouldn't make any sense not to change it to X20 either when the other routes in the area are numbered in the 2X numbering sequence I think.
When the X64 was rerouted to replace the 99 in 2017 it was strange they didn't renumber it at the time. As it was then a completely different route to when it ran down the Bristol Road.
I also recall that change was fairly confusing for people from what I saw - as people were still expecting it to go down the Bristol Road.
Though perhaps it was only intended to run in the short term anyway until the 2018 changes.
And from passenger loadings that I went on the X20, X21 and X22 (prior to the lockdown), the double deckers were definitley required as well. So think the removal of the B7RLE and 2018 changes made sense.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 03, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
This is another reason why it is confusing. For example, you've got four services numbered 5 across the NX network in Wolves, Dudley, West Brom & Birmingham. I think the old numbering system they used (2xx for Dudley, 3xx for Walsall, 4xx for West Brom & 5xx for Wolves) worked effectively, as it ensured no confusion between the different services in each area.
I would have to agree. At least then, you knew where you were-now you're having to rack your brain to work out, without a map, where they all run. It's change for the sake of change.
What annoys me the most is the 'X' numbering of some of the platinum routes. Take the X12 for example, yes it runs fast for 12 minutes as far as Washwood Heath but after that, it stops at every pillar and post known to man taking 1hr 20mins to get to Solihull. Not an express route in my opinion. Perhaps numbering the platinum services 9xx like some of the Perry Barr services could be better? E.g the X12 could become the 912.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 12:00:27 PM
What annoys me the most is the 'X' numbering of some of the platinum routes. Take the X12 for example, yes it runs fast for 12 minutes as far as Washwood Heath but after that, it stops at every pillar and post known to man taking 1hr 20mins to get to Solihull. Not an express route in my opinion. Perhaps numbering the platinum services 9xx like some of the Perry Barr services could be better? E.g the X12 could become the 912.
No - 9xx series is from the past and never had much of an impact anyway, the 'X' is more in line with other bus companies around the country. I will concede that 'X' is overused e.g X20/X21/X22 because they really should be 20, 21, 22, also I think the sooner they renumber the 907, 934-7 and 997 to X34 etc the better. Also, 912 has less impact than X12.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on May 04, 2020, 12:51:02 PM
No - 9xx series is from the past and never had much of an impact anyway, the 'X' is more in line with other bus companies around the country. I will concede that 'X' is overused e.g X20/X21/X22 because they really should be 20, 21, 22, also I think the sooner they renumber the 907, 934-7 and 997 to X34 etc the better. Also, 912 has less impact than X12.
I suppose, but advertising a service as express when it is anything but is a bit misleading. People may use the X12 to get to Solihull as they think it is an express so will get them there quickly, even though there are other faster, direct services like the 4.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 01:11:30 PM
I suppose, but advertising a service as express when it is anything but is a bit misleading. People may use the X12 to get to Solihull as they think it is an express so will get them there quickly, even though there are other faster, direct services like the 4.
To people of Bromford Bridge it is a very express service.
The X12 isn't advertised as an express route to Solihull, in fact the destination states Chelmsley Wood then Solihull
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 12:00:27 PM
What annoys me the most is the 'X' numbering of some of the platinum routes. Take the X12 for example, yes it runs fast for 12 minutes as far as Washwood Heath but after that, it stops at every pillar and post known to man taking 1hr 20mins to get to Solihull. Not an express route in my opinion. Perhaps numbering the platinum services 9xx like some of the Perry Barr services could be better? E.g the X12 could become the 912.
X12 doesn't go to Washwood Heath either that's the 55 and 94.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 01:11:30 PM
I suppose, but advertising a service as express when it is anything but is a bit misleading. People may use the X12 to get to Solihull as they think it is an express so will get them there quickly, even though there are other faster, direct services like the 4.
Well a few probably have taken it instead of the X2 to Solihull or X1 to Airport in the past. But to be fair that's their own fault for not checking what service they need to take in the first place if they choose to take a bus that's going to go the longer way.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on May 04, 2020, 12:51:02 PM
I will concede that 'X' is overused e.g X20/X21/X22 because they really should be 20, 21, 22,
Also, 912 has less impact than X12.
They're the fastest service to the QE - so think the X number makes sense. And isn't the X20 is limited stop on the Bristol Road after Selly Oak as well? And wouldn't 20 have less impact than X20 as well?
Quote from: 2206 on May 04, 2020, 01:40:28 PM
X12 doesn't go to Washwood Heath either that's the 55 and 94.
Erm... yes it does. The first stop ex city (Bromford Drive) is in Washwood Heath/Bromford Bridge.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 02:02:20 PM
Erm... yes it does. The first stop ex city (Bromford Drive) is in Washwood Heath.
The first stop ex City is at Bromford Bridge - not Washwood Heath.
Timetable states Bromford Bridge, Bromford Drive (adj).
Washwood Heath is the area by Aston Church Road/Job Centre/Green Supermarket that the 55 and 94 serve.
e.g Washwood Heath, Highfield Road.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 02:02:20 PM
Erm... yes it does. The first stop ex city (Bromford Drive) is in Washwood Heath/Bromford Bridge.
Most vehicle run from city via the Aston Expressway and Tyburn Road, so don't go within a mile of Washwood Heath, let alone stop.
I presume you are arguing over a route you don't use
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 02:06:42 PM
Most vehicle run from city via the Aston Expressway and Tyburn Road, so don't go within a mile of Washwood Heath, let alone stop.
I presume you are arguing over a route you don't use
You're right, I don't use the X12. From my research (Google Maps and Bus Checker) I saw that the first stop (Bromford Drive) is in Washwood Heath. I'm not trying to argue here, just reiterating what my research tells me.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 02:10:53 PM
You're right, I don't use the X12. From my research (Google Maps and Bus Checker) I saw that the first stop (Bromford Drive) is in Washwood Heath. I'm not trying to argue here, just merely pointing out what my research tells me.
Why not use the NXWM or TfWM site for research, far more likely to be accurate
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 02:22:01 PM
Why not use the NXWM or TfWM site for research, far more likely to be accurate
The NXWM website has taken down the X12 timetable and route map and Network West Midlands only shows the route from Castle Bromwich to Solihull for some reason, hence why I didn't use them.
We'll not mention the X12's third possible route into the city centre and confuse him.
I'd imagine that's only use when the other two are complete gridlock and anytime of time keeping is impossible.
I've only ever seen that variation used city bound, never in the other direction. Same with x70.
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 02:22:01 PM
Why not use the NXWM or TfWM site for research, far more likely to be accurate
To be honest Tony.
My experience of the NX website it is not always up to date. I have had to pull them up on some of the mistakes I've found. So you saying Why not use the NXWM or TfWM site for research, far more likely to be accurate for research for
@NXWMFAN1105 could be missleading him. Yes I grant you 9 times out of 10 it may be correct but when I've checked it it's not always correct and I'm constantly cheching it for changes to bus service (not so much now).
TfWM is also not always correct but they are more likely to be correct. Not try to start an augument.
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on May 04, 2020, 04:56:20 PM
To be honest Tony.
My experience of the NX website it is not always up to date. I have had to pull them up on some of the mistakes I've found. So you saying Why not use the NXWM or TfWM site for research, far more likely to be accurate for research for @NXWMFAN1105 could be missleading him. Yes I grant you 9 times out of 10 it may be correct but when I've checked it it's not always correct and I'm constantly cheching it for changes to bus service (not so much now).
TfWM is also not always correct but they are more likely to be correct. Not try to start an augument.
But chances are if the NX or TfWM sites aren't u to date the information won't have got to Google etc, as it is TfWM that supply it.
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 05:14:33 PM
But chances are if the NX or TfWM sites aren't u to date the information won't have got to Google etc, as it is TfWM that supply it.
Well if that's the case then fine, but all the things I've brought to their attention is all common knolage i.e it's correct on Google or TfWM. where as it's wrong on the NX stie. So could you explain that, please?
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 05:14:33 PM
But chances are if the NX or TfWM sites aren't u to date the information won't have got to Google etc, as it is TfWM that supply it.
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 02:22:01 PM
Why not use the NXWM or TfWM site for research, far more likely to be accurate
So you say that NX and TfWM websites are likely to be more accurate, but if they supply the information to Google etc then the information on Google is just as accurate?
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 05:30:54 PM
So you say that NX and TfWM websites are likely to be more accurate, but if they supply the information to Google etc then the information on Google is just as accurate?
Not neccessarily because it is another step for an error to occur in.
Have you heard of Chinese whispers? Same principle that the more steps the more chance of changes
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on May 03, 2020, 08:55:33 PM
They are looking at cutting the Birmingham map up. So perhaps the current 3 separate 25 routes will not be all on one map anymore. Don't know when that will be though. Will let everyone know on here when I do!!
You'll have to cut a fine line between Kingstanding and Erdington to split two of them up.
It confused me seeing a 25 sat at Kingstanding when I knew it ran Erdington - Ward End, until I got back and looked it up on Diamond's website.
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 05:32:58 PM
Not neccessarily because it is another step for an error to occur in.
Have you heard of Chinese whispers? Same principle that the more steps the more chance of changes
And if it's not right in the first place then what do you expect other sites or Google to do about it?
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on May 04, 2020, 05:40:26 PM
And if it's not right in the first place then what do you expect other sites or Google to do about it?
which proves my point.
That they cannot be more accurate than the information provided by TfWM
Quote from: ellspurs on May 04, 2020, 05:39:17 PM
You'll have to cut a fine line between Kingstanding and Erdington to split two of them up.
It confused me seeing a 25 sat at Kingstanding when I knew it ran Erdington - Ward End, until I got back and looked it up on Diamond's website.
I think it is more likely that they will cut it into 3 so it won't be done into specific areas. So you might get part of Erdington may be in one map and the other will be in the other map, or something like that. It could be that they'll be sutton area map which will include Erdington. So Birmingham might only go as far as Erdington or just before.
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 05:49:09 PM
which proves my point.
That they cannot be more accurate than the information provided by TfWM
But it also works the other way then doesn't it? Because TfWM do also get things wrong.
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 05:49:09 PM
which proves my point.
That they cannot be more accurate than the information provided by TfWM
So the information that I researched about the X12 and the location of the first stop on Bromford Drive stop in Washwood Heath/Bromford Bridge that was on Google and Bus Checker came from NX and TfWM. Google and Bus Checker say very clearly the stop is in Washwood Heath but NX and other members say it is in Bromford Bridge. Which is right? This is potentially very confusing and misleading for people who don't use the bus often and who don't know the area and want information. I'm not trying to argue here, I'm just confused.
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on May 04, 2020, 05:52:11 PM
But it also works the other way then doesn't it? Because TfWM do also get things wrong.
Yes, but trying to not repeat myself, how would that make Google etc any better.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 05:57:52 PM
So the information that I researched about the X12 and the location of the stop in Washwood Heath/Bromford Bridge that was on Google and Bus Checker came from NX and TfWM. Google and Bus Checker say very clearly the stop is in Washwood Heath but NX and other members say it is in Bromford Bridge. Which is right? This is potentially very confusing and misleading for people who don't use the bus often and who don't know the area and want information. I'm not trying to argue here, I'm just confused.
See my comment about Chinese whispers!
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 05:58:38 PM
See my comment about Chinese whispers!
I understand that. But I'm terms of general mapping, Google are possibly wrong with their mapping of where Washwood Heath actually is then?
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 05:58:04 PM
Yes, but trying to not repeat myself, how would that make Google etc any better.
I'm not saying it makes Google any better. However if the information is correct on google then I would prefer to direct people to Google rather that any transport operator whether it's the biggest company in the West Midlands or the Combined Althority then I'd rather direct them to Google. I take your point abot Google not always being upto date either but it's more the case of haveing the information available. Which is why the bus comanies and also combined Althority need to work more on their websites.
As I said originally TfWM would be the best site to check.
Here is a perfectly correct route guide on their site
https://www.networkwestmidlands.com/plan-your-journey/timetables/#/route/cen_33X12_A_H_y11_7-7
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 06:07:48 PM
As I said originally TfWM would be the best site to check.
Here is a perfectly correct route guide on their site
https://www.networkwestmidlands.com/plan-your-journey/timetables/#/route/cen_33X12_A_H_y11_7-7
Thank you Tony, I can see clearly where TfWM say Washwood Heath is. Google say it is by the roundabout that goes under the M6, so there is clearly a big difference in the two.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 06:12:05 PM
Thank you Tony, I can see clearly where TfWM say Washwood Heath is. Google say it is by the roundabout that goes under the M6, so there is clearly a big difference in the two.
Google is more interested in making us know where The Royal Town of Sutton Coldfield is!
I've sent feedback to Google suggesting they put the Washwood Heath name in the correct place, as well as adding a Bromford in the middle of the estate.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 12:00:27 PM
What annoys me the most is the 'X' numbering of some of the platinum routes. Take the X12 for example, yes it runs fast for 12 minutes as far as Washwood Heath but after that, it stops at every pillar and post known to man taking 1hr 20mins to get to Solihull. Not an express route in my opinion. Perhaps numbering the platinum services 9xx like some of the Perry Barr services could be better? E.g the X12 could become the 912.
The 'X' prefix on route numbers does not necessarily designate it as an 'express' service.
In the case of the X12, it is more a 'limited-stop' service. But only in the sense that it runs 'express' or 'limited stop' between Birmingham city centre and Bromford.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 06:12:05 PM
Thank you Tony, I can see clearly where TfWM say Washwood Heath is. Google say it is by the roundabout that goes under the M6, so there is clearly a big difference in the two.
Google is wrong.
Quote from: ellspurs on May 04, 2020, 07:13:55 PM
I've sent feedback to Google suggesting they put the Washwood Heath name in the correct place, as well as adding a Bromford in the middle of the estate.
Quote from: Tony on May 04, 2020, 06:07:48 PM
https://www.networkwestmidlands.com/plan-your-journey/timetables/#/route/cen_33X12_A_H_y11_7-7
I'd also suggest that NWM change "Fort Shopping Centre, Reynoldstown Road (opp)". As there is no way you can cross the motorway to get from Bromford Drive to the Fort Shopping Centre. And its a fairly long walk from there.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 06:12:05 PM
Thank you Tony, I can see clearly where TfWM say Washwood Heath is. Google say it is by the roundabout that goes under the M6, so there is clearly a big difference in the two.
Don't forget that Google is an American firm and you know how accurate the American's are, bombing the Chinese embassy in Belgrade instead of the Yugoslav Federal Directorate for Supply and Procurement next door.
Looking at the West Midlands A-Z (and also a 1967 1:10, 560 OS map on the National Library of Scotland website) there does not seem to be a specific boundary for the place called Washwood Heath. There is no council ward called Washwood Heath, see Birmingham City Council ward map https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downloads/file/9810 (https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downloads/file/9810).
The B8 postcode would could be considered to be Washwood Heath actually covers everything north of the Birmingham to Coventry railway between the Middleway bridge and the bridge over the River Cole, then along the east side of Stechford Lane and Bromford Lane then on the North side of the Water Orton to Birmingham railway back to the Middleway. So that includes Saltley & Ward End as well. Also significantly the bus stop: Bromford Bridge, Bromford Drive (adj) is just in the B8 postcode which maybe how Google guessed it was in Washwood Heath.
I will leave it to someone who knows East Birmingham a lot better than I do to define what is Washwood Heath.
Quote from: Ian Hardy on May 04, 2020, 09:21:37 PM
The B8 postcode would could be considered to be Washwood Heath actually covers everything north of the Birmingham to Coventry railway between the Middleway bridge and the bridge over the River Cole, then along the east side of Stechford Lane and Bromford Lane then on the North side of the Water Orton to Birmingham railway back to the Middleway. So that includes Saltley & Ward End as well. Also significantly the bus stop: Bromford Bridge, Bromford Drive (adj) is just in the B8 postcode which maybe how Google guessed it was in Washwood Heath.
I will leave it to someone who knows East Birmingham a lot better than I do to define what is Washwood Heath.
Think the side of Drews Lane towards the City Centre on the Washwood Heath Road would be the best definition of the area - the area where the Job Centre/Green Supermarket, etc are. With to the other side being Ward End (including the Fox and Goose). And the Bromford Drive area being Bromford.
In regards to the 3rd route the X12/X70 can take, i'm sure I remember a Chelmsley bound X70 Trident taking that route not long after the X12/X70 were introduced. Though it is always the City Centre bound direction normally, and usually at peak times when that route is used.
Quote from: 2206 on May 04, 2020, 09:26:44 PM
Think the side of the Washwood Heath would be the best definition of the area - where the Job Centre/Aston Church Lane, etc are. With to the other side being Ward End. And the Bromford Drive area being Bromford.
Quote from: Ian Hardy on May 04, 2020, 09:21:37 PM
Don't forget that Google is an American firm and you know how accurate the American's are, bombing the Chinese embassy in Belgrade instead of the Yugoslav Federal Directorate for Supply and Procurement next door.
Looking at the West Midlands A-Z (and also a 1967 1:10, 560 OS map on the National Library of Scotland website) there does not seem to be a specific boundary for the place called Washwood Heath. There is no council ward called Washwood Heath, see Birmingham City Council ward map https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downloads/file/9810 (https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downloads/file/9810).
The B8 postcode would could be considered to be Washwood Heath actually covers everything north of the Birmingham to Coventry railway between the Middleway bridge and the bridge over the River Cole, then along the east side of Stechford Lane and Bromford Lane then on the North side of the Water Orton to Birmingham railway back to the Middleway. So that includes Saltley & Ward End as well. Also significantly the bus stop: Bromford Bridge, Bromford Drive (adj) is just in the B8 postcode which maybe how Google guessed it was in Washwood Heath.
I will leave it to someone who knows East Birmingham a lot better than I do to define what is Washwood Heath.
As many people today use Google Maps on their smartphone to plan a journey, it is critical that the information provided is accurate and up to date. As I proved, inaccurate information can cause confusion and mislead people. As I am somewhat unfamiliar with that side of Birmingham, I relied on Google Maps to give me background knowledge in order to write my original post about the X12.
Moderators: Please accept my apologies, I know this has deviated from the thread topic somewhat!
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on May 04, 2020, 09:38:54 PM
As many people today use Google Maps on their smartphone to plan a journey, it is critical that the information provided is accurate and up to date. As I proved, inaccurate information can cause confusion and mislead people. As I am somewhat unfamiliar with that side of Birmingham, I relied on Google Maps to give me background knowledge in order to write my original post about the X12.
Moderators: Please accept my apologies, I know this has deviated from the thread topic somewhat!
Google did have correct information in this casem it was their naming of an area that was wrong, not the bus information
Quote from: 2206 on May 04, 2020, 08:25:48 PM
Google is wrong.I'd also suggest that NWM change "Fort Shopping Centre, Reynoldstown Road (opp)". As there is no way you can cross the motorway to get from Bromford Drive to the Fort Shopping Centre. And its a fairly long walk from there.
Hi
@2206 just for everyone's information any naming of stops is down to the DfT and not the local althority. So if you have any queries on naming of stops then you need to contact the DfT. Y ou can also let NWM/TfWM know but they don't have the power to change stop names.
Quote from: Stu on May 04, 2020, 08:12:50 PM
The 'X' prefix on route numbers does not necessarily designate it as an 'express' service.
In the case of the X12, it is more a 'limited-stop' service. But only in the sense that it runs 'express' or 'limited stop' between Birmingham city centre and Bromford.
From where I am in Smith's Wood, the X12 is akin to the old 962/994 service as "the fast bus to Birmingham". It now, thanks to the 71/72 truncation, also serves as the only direct bus to Solihull from the estate.
Quote from: Ian Hardy on May 04, 2020, 09:21:37 PM
Don't forget that Google is an American firm and you know how accurate the American's are, bombing the Chinese embassy in Belgrade instead of the Yugoslav Federal Directorate for Supply and Procurement next door.
Looking at the West Midlands A-Z (and also a 1967 1:10, 560 OS map on the National Library of Scotland website) there does not seem to be a specific boundary for the place called Washwood Heath. There is no council ward called Washwood Heath, see Birmingham City Council ward map https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downloads/file/9810 (https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downloads/file/9810).
The B8 postcode would could be considered to be Washwood Heath actually covers everything north of the Birmingham to Coventry railway between the Middleway bridge and the bridge over the River Cole, then along the east side of Stechford Lane and Bromford Lane then on the North side of the Water Orton to Birmingham railway back to the Middleway. So that includes Saltley & Ward End as well. Also significantly the bus stop: Bromford Bridge, Bromford Drive (adj) is just in the B8 postcode which maybe how Google guessed it was in Washwood Heath.
I will leave it to someone who knows East Birmingham a lot better than I do to define what is Washwood Heath.
Type B8 on Google maps search, and it shows you the area the postcode covers (very handy for delivery planning). The Washwood Heath name is hanging half out of the area.
the x12 does not serve Washwood heath, never has. Procrastinating from a work task not read the whole thing.
Quote from: BH2004 on May 01, 2020, 11:17:46 PM
WN20 (New route)
Wolverhampton to Dudley.
Every 30 Minutes Monday to Saturday and every 60 mins evening and sundays
between Wolverhampton Bus Station, Penn Road, Coalway Road, Warstones Road, Stourbridge Road, Kingswinford Cross, Pensnett, Russles Hall Hospital and Dudley
linking Wolverhampton and Russles Hall Hospital
Does Wolverhampton need a link to Russells Hall Hospital?
EDIT: Sorry, Winst
@Busboy105 - Can you please edit quotes to only quote the relevant part, rather than the whole list of services, Winston
Quote from: Busboy105 on June 16, 2020, 07:26:48 PM
Does Wolverhampton need a link to Russells Hall Hospital?
Doubtful Wolverhampton has New Cross which is in the Stafford/Cannock group so people in Wolverhampton generally get treated in that group
Quote from: Tony on June 16, 2020, 07:55:46 PM
Doubtful Wolverhampton has New Cross which is in the Stafford/Cannock group so people in Wolverhampton generally get treated in that group
It is proposed that Dudley CCG & its comissing of services from Russell's Hall Hospital will be joining Wolverhampton & Walsall CCG's to form a new single cluster of Black Country CCG & BCHA .
Services may well be rationalised between trust sites as has occurred since Sandwell & West Birmingham Health Authority was created with a simplified level of hospital services at Rowley Regis Hospital, Sandwell Hospital & City Hospital resulting in services such as Oncology relocated by the CCG to QEHB. This will also form part of Black Country CCG to be known as BCWG
When the proposed reorganisation of the CCG's is completed TfWM may have look into service provision between hospitals at Russell's Hall, Wolverhampton & Walsall.
I'd alter the rather weird 25's circular route slightly. Between Harborne Rd & QE Hospital it'd serve the High St, Vivian Road, Harborne Park Rd & then either Metchley Lane or Habrone lane & Aston Webb Boulevard before terminating at the QE. Returning the same way.
Unless there's an actual demand for the service along Ladywood (Which I personally doubt) I'd cut it from there too and send it the same way in and out of City as the 23/24.
I know tenders are a different ball game, it's just my 2p. Would give Harborne Park Road a direct route to City again.
A couple i've been thinking about during lockdown...
Bilston - Merry Hill via Ambergate Rd, Coseley, Sedgley, Gornal Wood & Pensnett. Frequency could be hourly.
Shrewsbury - Hereford. Effectively an extension of the 435, but would operate straight down the A49 skipping Condover, All Stretton & Wistanstow. Frequency every 2 hours.
I would personally bring back the X61 as the X20 and 63 take roughly the same time to get from city to Northfield, about 35-40 mins, even though one is designated as an express whereas with the X61, it was easily done in under half an hour outside of peak times.
Quote from: bususer28 on August 12, 2020, 10:27:22 AM
I would personally bring back the X61 as the X20 and 63 take roughly the same time to get from city to Northfield, about 35-40 mins, even though one is designated as an express whereas with the X61, it was easily done in under half an hour outside of peak times.
I've just looked at the old timetables from the X61, the journey time from Northfield to City in the off peak was only 1 minute quicker than the 63. On Journeys from City to Northfield the X61 was only 3 minutes quicker than the 63. So bringing back the X61 is really a non starter.
What I would do is somewhat complicated but I think would work.
1) Extend the X20 from Cofton Hackett over the Lickey hills direct to Bromsgrove. The X20 would run along Bristol Road the whole way but could still serve the QE via the Selly Oak bypass if needed then return to Bristol road. This would also replace the former 202 route through Lickey to Bromsgrove and give a much quicker direct route to Bromsgrove than the 144 currently. Despite the regular Bromsgrove to Brum trains, the train station is not located in town so this route would be very appealing and could get to Birmingham in well under an hour. Keep the frequency as every 20 mins.
2) to replace the x20 through the uni route, I would introduce the x45 or possibly the X23 to fit in the system. This would run from Birmingham to selly oak via the current x20 route, then via linden road to Cotteridge then via pershore road through kings norton, West Heath, Barnt green, Alvechurch and finally Redditch. This would also replace the withdrawn 146 route from Birmingham to Redditch. This would provide many New areas with direct links to the QE and Birmingham university. Also giving Bourneville a direct route to Birmingham.
I think both routes are workable and would give NXWM presence in new areas.
Quote from: j789 on August 12, 2020, 02:08:40 PM
What I would do is somewhat complicated but I think would work.
1) Extend the X20 from Cofton Hackett over the Lickey hills direct to Bromsgrove. The X20 would run along Bristol Road the whole way but could still serve the QE via the Selly Oak bypass if needed then return to Bristol road. This would also replace the former 202 route through Lickey to Bromsgrove and give a much quicker direct route to Bromsgrove than the 144 currently. Despite the regular Bromsgrove to Brum trains, the train station is not located in town so this route would be very appealing and could get to Birmingham in well under an hour. Keep the frequency as every 20 mins.
2) to replace the x20 through the uni route, I would introduce the x45 or possibly the X23 to fit in the system. This would run from Birmingham to selly oak via the current x20 route, then via linden road to Cotteridge then via pershore road through kings norton, West Heath, Barnt green, Alvechurch and finally Redditch. This would also replace the withdrawn 146 route from Birmingham to Redditch. This would provide many New areas with direct links to the QE and Birmingham university. Also giving Bourneville a direct route to Birmingham.
I think both routes are workable and would give NXWM presence in new areas.
Thought the train ran to Redditch and Alverchurch from Birmingham Uni and QE? Also think the 146 is hourly and the Diamond service has been cut back numerous times, why would an every 20 minute service would be needed?
X20 and X21/X22 seem fine as they are from what I've seen, so not sure why changes are needed. The current frequency is definitely needed at peaks as the stops along Uni Station and North Gate stops through the Uni used to get very busy towards City Centre from my experience pre March.
Quote from: 2206 on August 12, 2020, 02:23:20 PM
Thought the train ran to Redditch and Alverchurch from Birmingham Uni and QE? Also think the 146 is hourly and the Diamond service has been cut back numerous times, why would an every 20 minute service would be needed?
X20 and X21/X22 seem fine as they are from what I've seen, so not sure why changes are needed. The current frequency is definitely needed at peaks as the stops along Uni Station and North Gate stops through the Uni used to get very busy towards City Centre from my experience pre March.
A very easy adjustment if the Redditch section needs less frequency is run short trips to west Heath, eg two shorts plus one full trip would keep a 20 minute frequency on the Birmingham bit. Definite possibilities with that new route. As for the x20 idea, I am very surprised it hasnt already been tried as it would need only two extra vehicles with it being less than 20 mins from Rednal island to Bromsgrove. Having driven the 144 for years, trust me there are plenty of potential passengers for Bromsgrove from brum plus Lickey gets a direct route to Brum again as it doesn't have a train link either unless you drive to Longbridge.
Quote from: j789 on August 12, 2020, 03:32:41 PM
A very easy adjustment if the Redditch section needs less frequency is run short trips to west Heath, eg two shorts plus one full trip would keep a 20 minute frequency on the Birmingham bit. Definite possibilities with that new route. As for the x20 idea, I am very surprised it hasnt already been tried as it would need only two extra vehicles with it being less than 20 mins from Rednal island to Bromsgrove. Having driven the 144 for years, trust me there are plenty of potential passengers for Bromsgrove from brum plus Lickey gets a direct route to Brum again as it doesn't have a train link either unless you drive to Longbridge.
Running shorts to West Heath would probably make sense.
Would it be any quicker running it along the Bristol Road from the QE than its current route?
If it did go along the Bristol Road, maybe Aston Webb Blvd, New Fosse Way, Vincent Drive, Pritchatts Road, right onto (where it currently turns left) Edgbaston Park Road, Bristol Road maybe if it still served the QE. So it could stop with the other City Centre routes outside the station.
Interestingly, one of the original suggestions for the South Bham changes in July 2018 was to reroute the 47 beyond Cotteridge via Bournville, Selly Oak and the QE/Uni. At that point the X20 wasn't on the radar.
Quote from: j789 on August 12, 2020, 03:32:41 PM
A very easy adjustment if the Redditch section needs less frequency is run short trips to west Heath, eg two shorts plus one full trip would keep a 20 minute frequency on the Birmingham bit. Definite possibilities with that new route. As for the x20 idea, I am very surprised it hasnt already been tried as it would need only two extra vehicles with it being less than 20 mins from Rednal island to Bromsgrove. Having driven the 144 for years, trust me there are plenty of potential passengers for Bromsgrove from brum plus Lickey gets a direct route to Brum again as it doesn't have a train link either unless you drive to Longbridge.
If that's true about what you said about the 144, I'm surprised that neither NX or Diamond have taken advantage of the fact that First messed up by reducing the 144's frequency.
Quote from: Busboy105 on August 12, 2020, 05:19:23 PM
If that's true about what you said about the 144, I'm surprised that neither NX or Diamond have taken advantage of the fact that First messed up by reducing the 144's frequency.
Diamond made a complete mess of competing on the route several years ago and withdrew from it. Competing directly against the 144 is not a good idea as the Catshill to Bromsgrove and beyond section is still every 15 minutes or thereabouts on that part so would be a difficult thing to make successful. My idea for the x20 wouldn't go via Catshill but instead over the Lickey hills straight to the M42 motorway island and into Bromsgrove that way so wouldn't be a direct competitor to the 144. I also think NXWM are in the best position to be successful on such a route because of the already high frequency on Bristol road, other companies would still be competing against them on that section and it would be a challenge to compete successfully for short hop passengers within the West Midlands boundary.
Quote from: j789 on August 12, 2020, 05:31:40 PM
Diamond made a complete mess of competing on the route several years ago and withdrew from it. Competing directly against the 144 is not a good idea as the Catshill to Bromsgrove and beyond section is still every 15 minutes or thereabouts on that part so would be a difficult thing to make successful. My idea for the x20 wouldn't go via Catshill but instead over the Lickey hills straight to the M42 motorway island and into Bromsgrove that way so wouldn't be a direct competitor to the 144. I also think NXWM are in the best position to be successful on such a route because of the already high frequency on Bristol road, other companies would still be competing against them on that section and it would be a challenge to compete successfully for short hop passengers within the West Midlands boundary.
I have to be honest and I think it's an amazing idea. They took the leap to extend to Lichfield, Stafford and Cannock throughout the day so I don't see why there wouldn't be market potential there. Another idea would be for NXWM to take over Johnsons X20 as for people from south Birmingham who need to get to Coventry have little choice other than going through city or the NEC. It would also be good to reintroduce a link to Stratford which I'm sure would be very popular at weekends.
Quote from: bususer28 on August 12, 2020, 11:19:00 PM
Another idea would be for NXWM to take over Johnsons X20 as for people from south Birmingham who need to get to Coventry have little choice other than going through city or the NEC. It would also be good to reintroduce a link to Stratford which I'm sure would be very popular at weekends.
I live in south Birmingham. I don't really ever have a need to travel to Coventry but if I did, I'd get the X20 from Shirley. ;)
Link to Stratford from where? The X20 goes to Stratford via Solihull and Shirley.
Quote from: bususer28 on August 12, 2020, 11:19:00 PM
I have to be honest and I think it's an amazing idea. They took the leap to extend to Lichfield, Stafford and Cannock throughout the day so I don't see why there wouldn't be market potential there. Another idea would be for NXWM to take over Johnsons X20 as for people from south Birmingham who need to get to Coventry have little choice other than going through city or the NEC. It would also be good to reintroduce a link to Stratford which I'm sure would be very popular at weekends.
How is any of that making a change to a service? All you're saying is you want NXWM to take the X20 from Johnson's. If people want to do that journey the route already exists
Unless you are for real suggesting extend the Longbridge X20 all the way across to Solihull then Coventry.... 😂 😂
I mean for NXWM to take over the service to Stratford and from Solihull to Coventry. The tickets are really expensive especially from Solihull to Stratford so if NXWM took it over, it would be good for visiting Stratford and provide competition to the train which at the moment is roughly the same if not cheaper than the bus.
Quote from: Kevin on August 13, 2020, 08:02:29 AM
Unless you are for real suggesting extend the Longbridge X20 all the way across to Solihull then Coventry.... 😂 😂
As interesting as that would be no! But I mean it could operate as the X20, 49 and then the Johnsons X20 but that would be ridiculous, worse than the 53 in the day.
Maybe there might be options for a further expansion into Cannock when the Designer Outlet opens next year. Its expected to draw in people from all over
Quote from: bususer28 on August 13, 2020, 10:25:17 AM
I mean for NXWM to take over the service to Stratford and from Solihull to Coventry. The tickets are really expensive especially from Solihull to Stratford so if NXWM took it over, it would be good for visiting Stratford and provide competition to the train which at the moment is roughly the same if not cheaper than the bus. As interesting as that would be no! But I mean it could operate as the X20, 49 and then the Johnsons X20 but that would be ridiculous, worse than the 53 in the day.
Tickets are 'really expensive' for a reason.
NXWM fare scales work on high density routes in the West Midlands, but as proved by the 54 to Stafford it is very difficult to make them work on longer routes where you are basically selling a seat for an hour for an average of £1
Quote from: Tony on August 23, 2020, 10:33:05 AM
Tickets are 'really expensive' for a reason.
NXWM fare scales work on high density routes in the West Midlands, but as proved by the 54 to Stafford it is very difficult to make them work on longer routes where you are basically selling a seat for an hour for an average of £1
I do think NXWM are in a much stronger position than any other local company to run these types of routes though because they have the high density market already on sections of the route. If new routes can be incorporated into existing high frequency networks then the risk is much less as the passengers will still be there on the higher density part. This could then part subsidise the route extension to new areas until they are popular enough to support themselves. Maybe Stafford just wasn't ideal bus territory but other places would be. I suggested on here a couple of weeks ago extending the X20 to Bromsgrove via Lickey. This would involve a maximum of two extra vehicles on a 20 minute frequency as it is less than 20 mins from rednal to Bromsgrove even with stopping. It would still get the higher density rednal to City passengers but also open up to Bromsgrove commuters . Such a service would be comparable to the train service too whereas perhaps Wolverhampton to Stafford was more difficult with the train service much quicker and more convenient. Bromsgrove station is in a terrible place for most of the local residents.
That's one of a few major risks - Stratford, Bromsgrove and Cannock already has an established bus market.
I think Cannock is far easier for NXWM as it's closer to NXWM operations area and most people from there do visit Walsall/Wolverhampton regularly for whatever their reason is.
Bromsgrove and Stratford isn't as close.
My suggestion for Cannock is introduce a new NXWM bus route between Wolverhampton and Cannock. I am aware there is already bus route but I'm sure NXWM would be able to offer a better quality of service on that route especially it used to be operated by Arriva and now a small bus operator.
Also it'd mean Cannock will have 2 NXWM bus routes and it could push people to buy a pass rather than a ticket.
Quote from: :D on August 23, 2020, 06:45:42 PM
That's one of a few major risks - Stratford, Bromsgrove and Cannock already has an established bus market.
I think Cannock is far easier for NXWM as it's closer to NXWM operations area and most people from there do visit Walsall/Wolverhampton regularly for whatever their reason is.
Bromsgrove and Stratford isn't as close.
My suggestion for Cannock is introduce a new NXWM bus route between Wolverhampton and Cannock. I am aware there is already bus route but I'm sure NXWM would be able to offer a better quality of service on that route especially it used to be operated by Arriva and now a small bus operator.
Also it'd mean Cannock will have 2 NXWM bus routes and it could push people to buy a pass rather than a ticket.
Yes, they did do that until a couple or so years ago, but due to the gradual winding down of the i54 subsidy it used, it was no longer profitable.
(I gather it did start out many years ago as a Wolves Corparation route, until 1973, when it passed to Midland Red!)
I'd like to seeNx operate a service to Kidderminster from Stourbridge.
May be by extending the 9 to Kiddy.
They way they could do this is revert the timetable back to operating pre covid times (yes I know it's already operating at at 12 min frequency, but that wasn't the pre covid frequency). Then they could extend every other journey to Kidderminster. So it would run 10 mins between Bitmingham and Stourbridge and every 20-30 mins to Kidderminster.
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on August 24, 2020, 04:57:23 PM
I'd like to seeNx operate a service to Kidderminster from Stourbridge.
May be by extending the 9 to Kiddy.
They way they could do this is revert the timetable back to operating pre covid times (yes I know it's already operating at at 12 min frequency, but that wasn't the pre covid frequency). Then they could extend every other journey to Kidderminster. So it would run 10 mins between Bitmingham and Stourbridge and every 20-30 mins to Kidderminster.
Hourly is more than enough
Quote from: the trainbasher on August 24, 2020, 05:24:57 PM
Hourly is more than enough
May be Houlry during the day is enough but for commuters it just simply doesn't as it either means that they arrive too early for whatever they do or late. So if the route was to be taken over or made a new route then may be the timetable wouldn't be so hectic in the peaks. As if they operate a service at a half hourly frequency like I suggested then may be more people would use the bus instead of their own car. Not saying it would work to get moe passengers or potential new ones but it could be trialled?
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on August 24, 2020, 05:43:36 PM
May be Houlry during the day is enough but for commuters it just simply doesn't as it either means that they arrive too early for whatever they do or late. So if the route was to be taken over or made a new route then may be the timetable wouldn't be so hectic in the peaks. As if they operate a service at a half hourly frequency like I suggested then may be more people would use the bus instead of their own car. Not saying it would work to get moe passengers or potential new ones but it could be trialled?
I would imagine people in Kidderminster commuting to and from Birmingham either use the train, or drive their own car.
There used to be a 192 service between Kidderminster and Birmingham operated by Diamond, that was withdrawn/curtailed due to 'lack of use'.
Quote from: Stu on August 24, 2020, 06:08:30 PM
I would imagine people in Kidderminster commuting to and from Birmingham either use the train, or drive their own car.
There used to be a 192 service between Kidderminster and Birmingham operated by Diamond, that was withdrawn/curtailed due to 'lack of use'.
And to cover the cost of operating it fares would end up being close to the price of the faster train
Quote from: Tony on August 24, 2020, 06:10:42 PM
And to cover the cost of operating it fares would end up being close to the price of the faster train
Yes possibly but at least you don't have to walk if the bus would run as I said.
This is as the Station is out of the town and for OAP/disabled people it may be too far for them to walk to the town from the train station and at the moment with the current service it does run late some times and also it would open up a later service to Kidderminster to compleat with the train.
The current service only operate to 18:25 from Stourbridge. Which is no good if you have friends who are having a party and you have no other way to get to/from it.
Must admit we have a lot of people asking for a bus to kiddiminster from merry hill
And we pick up a lot of passengers from cradley train station who have cone up from kiddiminster saying that they would like a bus to merry hill
Another place sometimes asked for is a bus to bromsgrove from merry hill
Quote from: karl724223 on August 24, 2020, 06:33:06 PM
Must admit we have a lot of people asking for a bus to kiddiminster from merry hill
And we pick up a lot of passengers from cradley train station who have cone up from kiddiminster saying that they would like a bus to merry hill
Another place sometimes asked for is a bus to bromsgrove from merry hill
Ok May be Merry Hill and Bromsgrove are a better bet than Kidderminster to Stourbridge.
Or may be you could do a Kidderminster-Stourbridge-Merry Hill service as well as a Merry Hill-Bromsgrove service?
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on August 24, 2020, 06:24:31 PM
This is as the Station is out of the town and for OAP/disabled people it may be too far for them to walk to the town from the train station and at the moment with the current service it does run late some times and also it would open up a later service to Kidderminster to compleat with the train.
The current service only operate to 18:25 from Stourbridge. Which is no good if you have friends who are having a party and you have no other way to get to/from it.
But there are other bus services in Kidderminster that do call at/near the train station.
I doubt many OAPs or disabled people go partying in Birmingham or Stourbridge to be honest.
Quote from: Stu on August 24, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
But there are other bus services in Kidderminster that do call at/near the train station.
I doubt many OAPs or disabled people go partying in Birmingham or Stourbridge to be honest.
But again the services that serve the Rail Station only operate hourly and until a certain time.
Also I'm not saying all OAP's or Disabled people go partying. I'm just saying that some OAP's or Disabled people do and also find it diffocult to walk far. It also means that other people lije mothers with pushcaris wouldn't have to walk into town from the Rail Station if there was another service that did it apart from the two that alrady do.
Im hoping NXWM add some more Cannock services especially with the new Designer Outlet coming, given the dire state of Arriva theyd wipe the floor with them
Quote from: the trainbasher on August 24, 2020, 05:24:57 PM
Hourly is more than enough
I've never caught the 125 before but I agree, if there was demand then the 125 would be more often or NX would have already tried it considering they now do both Cannock and Lichfield at regular intervals.
Given from what i've seen the last few days and how the 55's seem to be struggling over the last week.
And even today, I let 1835 go past as completly full and waited for the next 94 (7509) and while I was on 7509, I saw 1790 going the other way with "Bus Full" on it.
Its been said 55 can't have deckers due to low trees at present. So an idea I thought of is maybe up the 94 to perhaps Every 5 minutes with double decker 94E's to Ward End to help ease capacity problems on those 55's.
Could then even run the 55's as X55 non stop from City Centre to Ward End, reducing the number of passengers on them maybe and if there are any through passengers to stops no longer served they could change onto 94/94E.
Would a X55 running from City Centre as X12 / X70 to Bromford Lane, then Bromford Road to Hunters Moon, then Coleshill Road, Heathland Avenue to the 55 route. Would take some of the longer distance Shard End / Kingshurst <> City Centre passengers, freeing capacity nearing the city centre?
Quote from: CBBUser on August 30, 2020, 08:32:45 PM
Would a X55 running from City Centre as X12 / X70 to Bromford Lane, then Bromford Road to Hunters Moon, then Coleshill Road, Heathland Avenue to the 55 route. Would take some of the longer distance Shard End / Kingshurst <> City Centre passengers, freeing capacity nearing the city centre?
Or X55 via Bromford Lane and Coleshill Road and rejoin normal line of route from there could be another option I expect.
Could then possibly scrap 55 route completly and have a higher frequency 94 on the Waswhood Heath Road.
Any passengers intending to travel to anywehre on the Washwood Heath Road beyond Fox & Goose, or to Nechells could change for a high frequency 94 then.
Quote from: 2206 on August 30, 2020, 08:38:56 PM
Or X55 via Bromford Lane and Coleshill Road and rejoin normal line of route from there could be another option I expect.
Could then possibly scrap 55 route completly and have a higher frequency 94 on the Waswhood Heath Road.
Any passengers intending to travel to anywehre on the Washwood Heath Road beyond Fox & Goose, or to Nechells could change for a high frequency 94 then.
I was going to suggest the X55 (or Xrandom number) via this route as well. Would also allow the denizens of the Fox & Goose area to have a quick bus to the city.
Only issue I could see is having to reduce the frequency down to allow for the additional buses to go on the 94E.
Not sure it would be much quicker. An off peak 11A is 4mins from Fox and Goose to Bromford. X12 is 14 mins from Bromford to City Centre...94 is 20 mins from Fox and Goose to City Centre.
Taking my suggestion of Bromford Road and Heathland Avenue (assuming 4 mins from Hunters Moon to Bromford and 4 mins from HeathWay shops to Hunters Moon), would save 7/8 mins on current timings.
Quote from: CBBUser on August 31, 2020, 08:39:06 PM
Not sure it would be much quicker. An off peak 11A is 4mins from Fox and Goose to Bromford. X12 is 14 mins from Bromford to City Centre...94 is 20 mins from Fox and Goose to City Centre.
Taking my suggestion of Bromford Road and Heathland Avenue (assuming 4 mins from Hunters Moon to Bromford and 4 mins from HeathWay shops to Hunters Moon), would save 7/8 mins on current timings.
Heathland Avenue and Bromford Road would probably be quicker, but it'd probably miss out more people the 55 serves I would think, not serving Bucklands End/Hodge Hill Road and Fox & Goose.
Paticularly with COVID I think Bromford Lane and Coleshill Road would make sense, as you would then remove all passengers from Bucklands End area and some City Centre - Fox & Goose passengers from the Washwood Heath Road and still maintain a link from Bucklands End/Shard End to Fox and Goose.
Running non - stop and missing out all of the passengers on the Washwood Heath Road sounds good to me as well and probably also a little quicker. Could then have all the buses running as X55, on a higher and better frequency, so sounds good to me, so I would certainly use it.
And they could even then operate the 94 as a fully double decker service an put the single deckers on the X55.
Personally, I'd reinstate the 80 and just run it along Smethwick High Street/Tollhouse Way avoiding Stoney Lane/Devonshire Road/Holly Lane/St. Pauls Rd (still served by the amended 89). Reinstating the link that the 80 previously provided along High St.
More to do with numbering here:
I never understand why routes that interwork, such as the 64/164 in Market Drayton, don't carry forward as the same number. E.g I would change it so that the 64 operates through from Shrewsbury to Hanley. Same with the 436/9. I would make it a 436 all the way to Wolves.
Quote from: Pat on September 04, 2020, 01:32:41 PM
More to do with numbering here:
I never understand why routes that interwork, such as the 64/164 in Market Drayton, don't carry forward as the same number. E.g I would change it so that the 64 operates through from Shrewsbury to Hanley. Same with the 436/9. I would make it a 436 all the way to Wolves.
Is that an attempt to show that they're separate services so they aren't subject to Euro tachograph regulations? I remember it being mentioned around here before.
Quote from: ellspurs on September 04, 2020, 03:18:55 PM
Is that an attempt to show that they're separate services so they aren't subject to Euro tachograph regulations? I remember it being mentioned around here before.
The two routes in question are covered by two separate registrations, as the route is too long to be covered by one registration. E.g the Shrewsbury - Hanley route is split
Shrewsbury - Mkt. Drayton (64)
Mkt. Drayton - Hanley (164)
Hanley - Mkt. Drayton (164)
Mkt. Drayton - Shrewsbury (64)
I don't know why they can't just register the whole thing as either 64 or 164.
Very much does seem to be an Arriva thing, similar routes under other operators are officially split and timetables separate the constituent parts but the service has the same number throughout
Quote from: ellspurs on September 04, 2020, 03:18:55 PM
Is that an attempt to show that they're separate services so they aren't subject to Euro tachograph regulations? I remember it being mentioned around here before.
Yes it used to be one route the X64
I would like to see diamond running the Wolverhampton 15 on evenings
Quote from: Bob on September 06, 2020, 07:53:16 PM
Yes it used to be one route the X64
The Birmingham - Corby X64 by Stagecoach United Counties? Used to like riding that to Northampton and back.
Quote from: ellspurs on September 18, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
The Birmingham - Corby X64 by Stagecoach United Counties? Used to like riding that to Northampton and back.
See above
Quote from: BH2004 on September 18, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
I would like to see diamond running the Wolverhampton 15 on evenings
Why? What's wrong with the service that NX provides?
Quote from: Pat on September 18, 2020, 04:36:05 PM
Why? What's wrong with the service that NX provides?
Quote from: BH2004 on September 18, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
I would like to see diamond running the Wolverhampton 15 on evenings
Plus didn't Diamond used fo operate the eve jrnys on this service anyway? I think thay did as a tender and they couldn't make it work for profit.
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on September 18, 2020, 05:03:53 PM
Plus didn't Diamond used fo operate the eve jrnys on this service anyway? I think thay did as a tender and they couldn't make it work for profit.
Yes, they did lose the tender, but nothing to do with profits.
Quote from: BH2004 on September 18, 2020, 02:56:43 PM
I would like to see diamond running the Wolverhampton 15 on evenings
You'd be in a minority of one. The last time they ran it, it was unreliable. Also, the 15 and 16 (or 255 and 256 in those days) were then run by two different companies on evenings which meant that tickets were not interchangeable on the common sections of route which was very unpopular with passengers.
I've had a thought regarding the Harborne corridor. Why don't they bring back the 29 as in 23/24 to Harborne then 76 to Northfield so that there are the 23/24/29 to Harborne at a set frequency. Every other 29 could be operated as a short to either Barnes Hill, Harborne or Wesley Castle to reduce potential pvr. Either the frequency would be 12 mins each, each 10 minutes but 29 alt. shorts or another frequency but keeping the simplicity and frequency as turn up & go. Such that instead of every 4/5 mins to Harborne, it would be every 3-4 mins or 4 mins. I would also suggested to amend the 29 to serve the old route in California.
I would also extend the 33 to Asda Queslett where there is sufficient recovery time in the timetable, and add an extra bus onto the 93x to solve reliability.
I would also look into splitting the 11 into 3 parts: Perry Barr - Acocks Green; Acocks Green - Bearwood; Bearwood - Perry Barr and have the 11 circular run every 15 mins and 11 shorts every 15 in order to cause less reliability problems. Perry Barr or West Brom could also run the north western shorts to save on dead mileage. However the proposed would mean a combined 7/8 min frequency however this is only an idea that would need to be looked into more.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on November 10, 2020, 05:55:59 PM
I would also look into splitting the 11 into 3 parts: Perry Barr - Acocks Green; Acocks Green - Bearwood; Bearwood - Perry Barr and have the 11 circular run every 15 mins and 11 shorts every 15 in order to cause less reliability problems. Perry Barr or West Brom could also run the north western shorts to save on dead mileage.
You'll be surprised as to how many people travel extensive distances on the 11. Let's take myself, I live in Kings Norton and if I need to get to Sutton, I often use the 11 to get to Erdington so I avoid having to cross the city centre. Timewise it takes exactly the same. So I think the 11 is fine as it is.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on November 10, 2020, 05:55:59 PM
I've had a thought regarding the Harborne corridor. Why don't they bring back the 29 as in 23/24 to Harborne then 76 to Northfield so that there are the 23/24/29 to Harborne at a set frequency. Every other 29 could be operated as a short to either Barnes Hill, Harborne or Wesley Castle to reduce potential pvr. Either the frequency would be 12 mins each, each 10 minutes but 29 alt. shorts or another frequency but keeping the simplicity and frequency as turn up & go. Such that instead of every 4/5 mins to Harborne, it would be every 3-4 mins or 4 mins. I would also suggested to amend the 29 to serve the old route in California.
The void still hasn't been filled in terms of the 29. I can't see the 76 being a long-term solution & even now people would be glad to see it back.
In terms of California, I assume you're referring to Stonehouse Hill? If so, I don't see much point in that.
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 10, 2020, 06:19:09 PM
The void still hasn't been filled in terms of the 29. I can't see the 76 being a long-term solution & even now people would be glad to see it back.
In terms of California, I assume you're referring to Stonehouse Hill? If so, I don't see much point in that.
I think a better option for a Harborne to Northfield route rather than the 29 is to extend one 24 from Quinton every 15 minutes direct via West Boulevard and Barnes Hill. This could be the 24A. I would run the 24A directly along Quinton Road West from Ridgacre Lane and have the normal 24 doing the loop around Simmons drive for a 15 min frequency around there. Combined, the 24/24A would still operate the main part of the route every 7/8 minutes. It would also create new links from Quinton to Northfield which I think would be popular.
With the 202 returning, I'd like to see the 002 extended to Northfield, keeping the link to Halesowen. It could even be a couple of 002s an hour, or every other one.
I agree with the 33 going to Asda. But I would send it down Hillingford Avenue instead of continuing along Collingwood like the 5 and 997 do and then send it along the back of Asda and terminate at the 424 stop.
Would mean they aren't getting targeted when on layover at Collingwood terminus.
Quote from: j789 on November 10, 2020, 07:47:23 PM
I think a better option for a Harborne to Northfield route rather than the 29 is to extend one 24 from Quinton every 15 minutes direct via West Boulevard and Barnes Hill. This could be the 24A. I would run the 24A directly along Quinton Road West from Ridgacre Lane and have the normal 24 doing the loop around Simmons drive for a 15 min frequency around there. Combined, the 24/24A would still operate the main part of the route every 7/8 minutes. It would also create new links from Quinton to Northfield which I think would be popular.
Don't understand the point of that. If the regular 24 was still running every 8 mins on top of the 24A every 15 mins.you may as well have a 29 every 15 mins instead.
The 39/39A run between Quinton and Northfield.
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 10, 2020, 11:09:31 PM
If the regular 24 was still running every 8 mins on top of the 24A every 15 mins.
Sounds to me like they mean 24 every 15 minutes, 24A extension every 15 minutes Combining to every 7/8 minutes.
Quote from: j789 on November 10, 2020, 07:47:23 PM
Combined, the 24/24A would still operate the main part of the route every 7/8 minutes
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 10, 2020, 11:09:31 PM
The 39/39A run between Quinton and Northfield.
The 39A actually runs between Woodgate Valley South and Northfield, not Quinton.
Quote from: Jack on November 10, 2020, 10:46:41 PM
I agree with the 33 going to Asda. But I would send it down Hillingford Avenue instead of continuing along Collingwood like the 5 and 997 do and then send it along the back of Asda and terminate at the 424 stop.
Would mean they aren't getting targeted when on layover at Collingwood terminus.
Agreed.
Long thought that a bus gate across the Queslett Road at Doe Bank where the 33 could better serve that area of Pheasey and the 997 wouldn't have to, then the 33 could run straight down Frampton Way and Hillingford Avenue and loop round Asda.
Quote from: 2206 on November 10, 2020, 11:25:53 PM
Sounds to me like they mean 24 every 15 minutes, 24A extension every 15 minutes Combining to every 7/8 minutes.
Apologies, didn't read it properly. Still, would 24 passengers in Quinton be happy with a decrease in service.
Quote from: mesub on November 11, 2020, 08:39:38 AM
The 39A actually runs between Woodgate Valley South and Northfield, not Quinton.
Yes, just the 39.
Quote from: Kevin on November 11, 2020, 10:15:24 AM
Agreed.
Long thought that a bus gate across the Queslett Road at Doe Bank where the 33 could better serve that area of Pheasey and the 997 wouldn't have to, then the 33 could run straight down Frampton Way and Hillingford Avenue and loop round Asda.
I didn't think of that but that would be good as well. And the Pheasey 997's can terminate at the church rather than on Stanhope Way.
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 11, 2020, 10:48:50 AM
Apologies, didn't read it properly. Still, would 24 passengers in Quinton be happy with a decrease in service.
Yes, just the 39.
Yes I did mean the main route Quinton to City would remain at the current 7/8 minute frequency just every second bus would extend to Northfield. Also, the only part of the route in Quinton with a decreased frequency would be the Simmons Drive one way loop. It would still be every 15 minutes along there and it's not far to walk to Quinton Road West from around there either. Equally, there would be an increase in the outbound frequency along Quinton Road West towards Northfield so those residents would benefit.
I think it's better than the 29 alternative purely because I like the 76 links that are offered on that route doing the former 29 route, very useful now to get from Harborne to Selly Park, kings Heath (quicker and more reliable than the 11A) and Shirley.
Quote from: j789 on November 11, 2020, 06:05:29 PM
Also, the only part of the route in Quinton with a decreased frequency would be the Simmons Drive one way loop.
I can't see any one way loop shown on the current route map, other than the City Centre loop?
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_GEOOBJECT_REQUEST?language=en&command=bothDirections&line=cen:33024:B:H:y11:13:5::1:34&hideBannerInfo=1&coordOutputFormat=MRCV
Wasn't that one of the changes that occured over 2 years ago in July 2018, that it no longer did a loop.
Quote from: 2206 on November 11, 2020, 09:03:20 PM
I can't see any one way loop shown on the current route map, other than the City Centre loop?
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_GEOOBJECT_REQUEST?language=en&command=bothDirections&line=cen:33024:B:H:y11:13:5::1:34&hideBannerInfo=1&coordOutputFormat=MRCV
Wasn't that one of the changes that occured over 2 years ago in July 2018, that it no longer did a loop.
You may well be right about it having changed, I thought it went one way around Simmons Drive and then back up Quinton Road West to Ridgacre Lane. However, thinking about it he terminus did change to the island at the bottom where it meets West Boulevarde so maybe it does return the same route. If so, even better as my suggestion for the 24/24A could go exactly the same route then.
To be honest I think that 24A idea isn't so bad.
Quote from: Jack on November 10, 2020, 10:46:41 PM
I agree with the 33 going to Asda. But I would send it down Hillingford Avenue instead of continuing along Collingwood like the 5 and 997 do and then send it along the back of Asda and terminate at the 424 stop.
Would mean they aren't getting targeted when on layover at Collingwood terminus.
Extending the 33 to Asda would be good move imo. There's quite an older population around here who rely on doing their weekly shop at Asda and it would provide a regular service to what is the closest stop to the store. Saves them currently having to cross the Queslett Road race track or trudging the other side of the car park to catch the 997 on the Aldridge Road. I would run the 33 along Beacon Road, Hillingford Avenue, Bonnington Way and Romney Way to Buffet Island.
Also I often wonder why the 997 goes up Aldridge Road (Streetly)?. Theres already the 935 and 937 that connects to Birmingham. The 935 to Walsall, the 77 which is nearby and the 937 serves Aldridge. Would it be better to run the 997 via Barr Beacon especially now with demolition of the Perry Barr flyover which is increasing traffic along the route. I would keep it the same from Longwood Road to Walsall, think its important it continues to serve Redhouse Lane and Daw End Lane
Quote from: BrumKev86 on November 15, 2020, 06:51:33 PM
Also I often wonder why the 997 goes up Aldridge Road (Streetly)?. Theres already the 935 and 937 that connects to Birmingham. The 935 to Walsall, the 77 which is nearby and the 937 serves Aldridge. Would it be better to run the 997 via Barr Beacon especially now with demolition of the Perry Barr flyover which is increasing traffic along the route. I would keep it the same from Longwood Road to Walsall, think its important it continues to serve Redhouse Lane and Daw End Lane
But the Beacon Road has the 934 even though theres not many passengers on there, the 997 would miss out the stop on Queslett Road which is quite a walk to other nearby stops, okay the 33 does stop at the Deers Leep, but I doubt many people from there catch is straight to Birmingham and rather a faster journey on the 997. Also the 935 only serves the section until Hundred Acre whereas the 997 serves the whole section.
I'd happily keep the 997 along the other Aldridge Road instead of going off and serving Old Oscott and could extend the 52 from Beeches to Asda or mess around with the 424. That would save the 997 a good 12 minutes of winding along through there.
Quote from: Jack on November 15, 2020, 07:03:29 PM
But the Beacon Road has the 934 even though theres not many passengers on there, the 997 would miss out the stop on Queslett Road which is quite a walk to other nearby stops, okay the 33 does stop at the Deers Leep, but I doubt many people from there catch is straight to Birmingham and rather a faster journey on the 997. Also the 935 only serves the section until Hundred Acre whereas the 997 serves the whole section.
I'd happily keep the 997 along the other Aldridge Road instead of going off and serving Old Oscott and could extend the 52 from Beeches to Asda or mess around with the 424. That would save the 997 a good 12 minutes of winding along through there.
The Aldridge Road gets a lot of traffic in peaks and at least half the time I've used the 997 in the PM peak we've turned off to go around Old Oscott and reached the end of Shady Lane/Aldridge Road ahead of the traffic we left at Dyas Road so missing out Old Oscott wouldn't really work
Quote from: Steve3229vp on November 15, 2020, 07:15:45 PM
The Aldridge Road gets a lot of traffic in peaks and at least half the time I've used the 997 in the PM peak we've turned off to go around Old Oscott and reached the end of Shady Lane/Aldridge Road ahead of the traffic we left at Dyas Road so missing out Old Oscott wouldn't really work
Still, the traffic does move its not as bad as some other junctions round here. Would still be faster than going round Old Oscott.
Quote from: Jack on November 15, 2020, 07:26:11 PM
Still, the traffic does move its not as bad as some other junctions round here. Would still be faster than going round Old Oscott.
How can it be faster ? The last few times i've been on the 997 in peaks I noticed what cars were in front of the bus at the point of going off Aldridge Road around Old Oscott and then back onto Aldridge Road to find the cars had only just reached the Shady lane junction with Aldridge Road and our 997 was back on Aldridge Road in front of them !
I would divert the 8 so whilst it serves the Waterfront, it would serve the Royal Mail offices at the West end of the Waterfront.
I would also tweak the 7 so it was every 15 mins Stourbridge to Dudley, but the Wollaston section drops to every 30 mins.
Finally I would extend certain 6 journeys to Stourbridge Junction during the peaks terminating at the Station forecourt to improve social distancing on the branch line.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on November 15, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
How can it be faster ? The last few times i've been on the 997 in peaks I noticed what cars were in front of the bus at the point of going off Aldridge Road around Old Oscott and then back onto Aldridge Road to find the cars had only just reached the Shady lane junction with Aldridge Road and our 997 was back on Aldridge Road in front of them !
This is just in peaks during the rush hour... and the traffic is never at a standstill anyway, it does move. If anything you're just over exaggerating.
Plus its takes ages doing the right turn off Shady Lane because no one gives you way, especially during the rush hour so you're just sitting there waiting patiently for a kind soul to let you out.
I'd extend either the 41A or 47 from Wednesbury to Great Bridge, to provide a link between the two
I'd remove at least one of the stops on the X21 route at the Weoley Castle Road / Gregory Avenue section where it literally stops both sides of the same road going in same direction (outbound). Most people get off at the first stop and cross the road anyway. Today both stops were used. It's ridiculous. I figured when the 48 was added to the first one the X21 could've been removed but no. Not to mention the Ruckley Road stop is about a minutes walk way from both of these.
Or failing that I'd reroute it to serve Somerford Road instead which is a short walk from Gregory Avenue anyway. Less stops and more direct. There's no reason why both the 76 and X21 should have to go the same way.
Quote from: MasterPlan on December 02, 2020, 12:08:28 AM
I'd remove at least one of the stops on the X21 route at the Weoley Castle Road / Gregory Avenue section where it literally stops both sides of the same road going in same direction (outbound). Most people get off at the first stop and cross the road anyway. Today both stops were used. It's ridiculous. I figured when the 48 was added to the first one the X21 could've been removed but no. Not to mention the Ruckley Road stop is about a minutes walk way from both of these.
Or failing that I'd reroute it to serve Somerford Road instead which is a short walk from Gregory Avenue anyway. Less stops and more direct. There's no reason why both the 76 and X21 should have to go the same way.
... what do the buses actually do there? Do they go to the very end of Gregory Avenue and take a sharp left onto Weoley Park Road, or are they supposed to use that slip road at the side? If the X21 is supposed to do a sharp right onto Gregory Avenue from Weoley Park Road, then both of those bus stops are very poorly laid out. I'm looking at it purely from where Google are showing the bus stops (as I don't know the exact route) and I can't fathom how it is feasible.
Quote from: ellspurs on December 02, 2020, 09:37:48 AM
... what do the buses actually do there? Do they go to the very end of Gregory Avenue and take a sharp left onto Weoley Park Road, or are they supposed to use that slip road at the side? If the X21 is supposed to do a sharp right onto Gregory Avenue from Weoley Park Road, then both of those bus stops are very poorly laid out. I'm looking at it purely from where Google are showing the bus stops (as I don't know the exact route) and I can't fathom how it is feasible.
Weoley Park Road leads to the Bristol Road.
You can't do a sharp right onto Gregory Avenue from Weoley Castle Road I believe. That's why it has to go around the island to come back on itself and into Gregory Avenue. And theretore ends up serving both of those stops. Even the 76 misses one of them out, yet X21 served both but they go the same way.
Like I say though, personally I'd just send the X21 down Somerford Road anyway.
Quote from: MasterPlan on December 02, 2020, 01:55:02 PM
Weoley Park Road leads to the Bristol Road.
You can't do a sharp right onto Gregory Avenue from Weoley Castle Road I believe. That's why it has to go around the island to come back on itself and into Gregory Avenue. And theretore ends up serving both of those stops. Even the 76 misses one of them out, yet X21 served both but they go the same way.
Like I say though, personally I'd just send the X21 down Somerford Road anyway.
Didn't the X21 originally serve one of the stops? It's a bit daft and literally no point in that at all when they are opposite each other.
Quote from: MasterPlan on December 02, 2020, 01:55:02 PM
Weoley Park Road leads to the Bristol Road.
You can't do a sharp right onto Gregory Avenue from Weoley Castle Road I believe. That's why it has to go around the island to come back on itself and into Gregory Avenue. And theretore ends up serving both of those stops. Even the 76 misses one of them out, yet X21 served both but they go the same way.
Like I say though, personally I'd just send the X21 down Somerford Road anyway.
That's just ridiculous. There's also a bus stop on school keep clear markings, which states that nothing should stop there between 8am and 4pm. The stops should be moved further down Gregory Avenue and the buses should use the bit of road there that's designed to be used to turn left from Gregory Avenue onto Weoley Castle Road.
Quote from: Jack on December 02, 2020, 01:59:01 PM
Didn't the X21 originally serve one of the stops? It's a bit daft and literally no point in that at all when they are opposite each other.
No as far as I remember the X21 has always served both. Can't remember if the 29 did also before that. The 27 also missed out the first one like the 76 does.
Quote from: ellspurs on December 02, 2020, 06:28:15 PM
That's just ridiculous. There's also a bus stop on school keep clear markings, which states that nothing should stop there between 8am and 4pm. The stops should be moved further down Gregory Avenue and the buses should use the bit of road there that's designed to be used to turn left from Gregory Avenue onto Weoley Castle Road.
Buses can turn left there going the other way.
But yes it is quite close to the school. As I say the next stop on Gregory Avenue (Ruckley Road) isn't far away anyway.
Just gone past it. Yes the 2nd stop is on the keep clear section by the school.
Quote from: Pat on December 01, 2020, 06:41:00 PM
I'd extend either the 41A or 47 from Wednesbury to Great Bridge, to provide a link between the two
There used to be a link in the 310, probably subsidised, but that got cut presumably because it was little used
The 22 gets close to Great Bridge
I would extend the 4A to Solihull via the current 31 route. I don't see how the 31 can still run considering the 4A takes its old evening journeys to Robin Hood Island.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 03, 2020, 12:51:59 PM
I would extend the 4A to Solihull via the current 31 route. I don't see how the 31 can still run considering the 4A takes its old evening journeys to Robin Hood Island.
To be honest, it's not a bad idea but the 31 would end up being 'overserved' i.e. a bus every 20 mins or 'underserved' i.e. a bus every 40/60 mins.
Quote from: bususer28 on December 03, 2020, 02:35:05 PM
To be honest, it's not a bad idea but the 31 would end up being 'overserved' i.e. a bus every 20 mins or 'underserved' i.e. a bus every 40/60 mins.
I forgot to add that by the 4A being extended to Solihull via the 31 then the 31 would be withdrawn.
I would make the 28 more frequent by running 28A journeys from Castle Vale to Kingstanding Circle so that overcrowding can be addressed as well as useful links introduced which could lead to the termination of the 38.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on December 03, 2020, 04:04:48 PM
I would make the 28 more frequent by running 28A journeys from Castle Vale to Kingstanding Circle so that overcrowding can be addressed as well as useful links introduced which could lead to the termination of the 38.
Terminating the 38 would mean that Castle Vale would lose a link from the centre of there to its nearest major shopping centre (The Fort), and I think Tony mentioned that the 38 is busy at school times so appropriate quantities of buses would be needed for that. Unless you mean the 28A doing the 38's route to Erdington from Castle Vale and then extending to Kingstanding?
Quote from: ellspurs on December 03, 2020, 04:46:57 PM
Terminating the 38 would mean that Castle Vale would lose a link from the centre of there to its nearest major shopping centre (The Fort), and I think Tony mentioned that the 38 is busy at school times so appropriate quantities of buses would be needed for that. Unless you mean the 28A doing the 38's route to Erdington from Castle Vale and then extending to Kingstanding?
I still to this day do not understand how the 38 can't be a schools/peaks only service. Other than the BC 25 it has to be one of the most pointless routes in the West Midlands.
It isn't exactly hard to get the 71 and then change onto the 96 at Spitfire Island for the Fort.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 03, 2020, 12:51:59 PM
I would extend the 4A to Solihull via the current 31 route. I don't see how the 31 can still run considering the 4A takes its old evening journeys to Robin Hood Island.
Quote from: bususer28 on December 03, 2020, 02:35:05 PM
To be honest, it's not a bad idea but the 31 would end up being 'overserved' i.e. a bus every 20 mins or 'underserved' i.e. a bus every 40/60 mins.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 03, 2020, 03:03:48 PM
I forgot to add that by the 4A being extended to Solihull via the 31 then the 31 would be withdrawn.
It doesn't seem like a bad idea, but in order to fully replace the 31, the 4A would have to be diverted via Shirley Road and Olton Boulevard East.
Then again, the 4A runs about every 15 minutes, while the 31 is half-hourly.
Doesn't the 31 interwork with something else though? Maybe the current setup works quite nicely for both passengers and NX Bus operationally?
Quote from: Stu on December 03, 2020, 07:02:35 PM
It doesn't seem like a bad idea, but in order to fully replace the 31, the 4A would have to be diverted via Shirley Road and Olton Boulevard East.
Then again, the 4A runs about every 15 minutes, while the 31 is half-hourly.
Doesn't the 31 interwork with something else though? Maybe the current setup works quite nicely for both passengers and NX Bus operationally?
31 & 58 interwork. 4A could run every 15 minutes short to Gospel Oak and then every 30 onwards.
Do many people use 31 on Shirley Road and Olton Boulevard East, not familiar with the route myself?
Doesn't the 4A go up to Robin Hood Island in the evenings?
Quote from: Sh4318 on December 04, 2020, 10:26:46 AM
Doesn't the 4A go up to Robin Hood Island in the evenings?
Yes it does.
Quote from: bususer28 on January 17, 2021, 03:12:02 PM
I went to do my shopping at the new Aldi at Tunnel Road in Kings Norton and noticed that there was a bus stop bay outside so I was wondering as to whether there was any intention to extend the 35 or divert the 49 to serve it.
Thinking about it different new Aldi, but i'm surprised the 5 doesn't run past the new Aldi in Solihull on Homer Road. And there is a bus stop there already in the one direction. Would make more sense using Homer Road than Princes Way, as only thing on Princes Way is a load of trees.
I know it stops near the High Street on Station Road, but i'd have thought the Homer Road stop would probably be more convenient for people.
I would combine the 11 and the 15 and withdraw the 15A
New 13 Service (to replace 11/15)
Underhill - Merry Hill
via Wolverhampton, Spring Hill, Wolverhampton, Womboune, Kingswinford and Bromley
Monday - Saturday Every 30 Minutes Every 60 mins Sunday
New X13 (to replace 11/15)
Underhill - Merry Hill
Via Wolverhampton, Spring Hill, Kingswinford and Russell's Hall Hospital (limited stop along the cannock road and between Kingswinford and Merry Hill)
Every 30 Mins
I would transfer 4922 - 4926 to join 4927 - 4936 at Wolverhampton for the services
I would send 2120 - 2123 to WA
Then 1894 - 1898 to YW
Quote from: BH2004 on March 14, 2021, 12:50:09 PM
I would combine the 11 and the 15 and withdraw the 15A
New 13 Service (to replace 11/15)
Underhill - Merry Hill
via Wolverhampton, Spring Hill, Wolverhampton, Womboune, Kingswinford and Bromley
Monday - Saturday Every 30 Minutes Every 60 mins Sunday
New X13 (to replace 11/15)
Underhill - Merry Hill
Via Wolverhampton, Spring Hill, Kingswinford and Russell's Hall Hospital (limited stop along the cannock road and between Kingswinford and Merry Hill)
Every 30 Mins
I would transfer 4922 - 4926 to join 4927 - 4936 at Wolverhampton for the services
I would send 2120 - 2123 to WA
Then 1894 - 1898 to YW
So send more single decks to Walsall? - that's the last thing they need, then send a different type of bus not operated to YW (Euro 4 Scanias) to YW meaning stocking a load of spares, also to a garage that the last thing it needs is more single decks
Quote from: BH2004 on March 14, 2021, 12:50:09 PM
Then 1894 - 1898 to YW
Be my guest to travel on the 18 at peak times with a double decker, let alone a single decker, twice this week I've had to stand! Just because they're there, doesn't mean they're managing.
Quote from: BH2004 on March 14, 2021, 12:50:09 PM
I would combine the 11 and the 15 and withdraw the 15A
New 13 Service (to replace 11/15)
Underhill - Merry Hill
via Wolverhampton, Spring Hill, Wolverhampton, Womboune, Kingswinford and Bromley
Monday - Saturday Every 30 Minutes Every 60 mins Sunday
New X13 (to replace 11/15)
Underhill - Merry Hill
Via Wolverhampton, Spring Hill, Kingswinford and Russell's Hall Hospital (limited stop along the cannock road and between Kingswinford and Merry Hill)
Every 30 Mins
I would transfer 4922 - 4926 to join 4927 - 4936 at Wolverhampton for the services
I would send 2120 - 2123 to WA
Then 1894 - 1898 to YW
Transferring deckers out of YW? That's not a good idea
Though I think there is scope to name the 11 a cross-city route, as it's so short
Quote from: Sh4318 on March 15, 2021, 05:20:58 PM
Transferring deckers out of YW? That's not a good idea
Though I think there is scope to name the 11 a cross-city route, as it's so short
Combine the 11 with the 59? Give a link for hospital for the north of Wolverhampton. 32/33 is another route that rather short combine that with the 79 as it already InterWorks with the 79 on Sundays
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on March 15, 2021, 07:11:18 PM
Combine the 11 with the 59? Give a link for hospital for the north of Wolverhampton. 32/33 is another route that rather short combine that with the 79 as it already InterWorks with the 79 on Sundays
The 65 already provides a link between North Wolves and New Cross.
Would make the 32 go to yew tree in South Yardley and 4A to Shirley
Would a 101 extension to West Bromwich work?
Quote from: bbs on April 21, 2021, 11:35:26 PM
Would make the 32 go to yew tree in South Yardley and 4A to Shirley
The 31 serves Shirley. Why would the 4A need to go there too?
Quote from: BusMan Greg on April 22, 2021, 01:22:59 PM
Would a 101 extension to West Bromwich work?
Which route would it take? The 74 already serves to Soho/Birmingham Road extremely frequently. The (Diamond) 16 already serves West Bromwich
Quote from: Sh4318 on April 22, 2021, 06:58:44 PM
The 31 serves Shirley. Why would the 4A need to go there too?
If the 4A was extended to Shirley/Solihull it would probably replace the 31 I guess.
Quote from: Sh4318 on April 22, 2021, 06:58:44 PM
Which route would it take? The 74 already serves to Soho/Birmingham Road extremely frequently. The (Diamond) 16 already serves West Bromwich
After looping the terminus at Oxhill Road (as even I'm not evil enough to force the bus down Camp Lane) it continues down Sandwell Road to the A41, then right, right onto Park Lane and follow that all the way down to Newton Road, and then left and onto West Bromwich!
Quote from: ellspurs on April 22, 2021, 08:18:55 PM
After looping the terminus at Oxhill Road (as even I'm not evil enough to force the bus down Camp Lane) it continues down Sandwell Road to the A41, then right, right onto Park Lane and follow that all the way down to Newton Road, and then left and onto West Bromwich!
Absolutely no point whatsoever, the Jewellery Quarter and Winson Green is linked to West Bromwich by the Metro.
Yes, but there are currently no buses that serve Forge Mill Farm. It was asked of which route it would take if it were extended to West Bromwich, and I provided a nice and unique one.
Also, on looking at that route I saw that there was a set of horse crossing lights (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5274551,-1.9617804,3a,75y,31h,86.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sVeQSXn3A0awhNiHTsBSxeA!2e0!5s20200901T000000!7i16384!8i8192) on Park Lane which I found adorable.
Quote from: ellspurs on April 22, 2021, 11:18:15 PM
Yes, but there are currently no buses that serve Forge Mill Farm. It was asked of which route it would take if it were extended to West Bromwich, and I provided a nice and unique one.
Also, on looking at that route I saw that there was a set of horse crossing lights (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5274551,-1.9617804,3a,75y,31h,86.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sVeQSXn3A0awhNiHTsBSxeA!2e0!5s20200901T000000!7i16384!8i8192) on Park Lane which I found adorable.
Would enough passengers travel on the bus to a farm to justify a bus service however. Probably not, which explains why there is no service.
There doesn't seem to be any houses, shops or anything there. Just a farm and a walking path.
I'm fully aware that there's no point to it.
Quote from: Alex on November 15, 2014, 06:30:12 PM
Title says it all, really
Money or patronage is no issue here as it's just for fun, so have at it :)
I'm gonna quote the original post again.
I'd create a new X50 route limited stop to Maypole and then onward to Wythall and Dickens Heath as a loop.
Route from city - all stops on main road through Digbeth up to the ring road (not via the current 50 route 'round the back streets'). Then straight over the ring road island continuing onto the A435 Haden way and then joining Moseley Road.(Possibly have one stop on Haden way near the main island near the mosque as no bus currently serves there at the moment.
Then the only stops to Maypole would be: 1 stop in Balsall Heath, the 2 main stops in Moseley High street, then 4 stops through Kings Heath high street, Alcester Lanes end stop (for driver changeovers), the stop after Cocks Moor swimming pool and then Maypole itself. This would be about 16 stops maximum from the city centre.
Then the X50 would continue straight over the Maypole island onto Alcester Road and serve all stops through Hollywood and Wythall up to Beckett's Island, then turn left and go along Station road (as the old 50A route) but instead of turning down Lea Green Lane before Wythall station (as the previous route) continue along Station road and turn the next left into Lowbrook Lane for Tidbury Green (Solihull district). Follow this road to the cross roads and then go across to Dickens Heath road. Follow this to Dickens Heath centre and turn around at the Clock stop. Then return via Tythe Barn Lane up to Whitlock's End Station on Tile House lane, then left onto Haslucks Green Road, then left again onto Truemans Heath Lane to take you back up to Wythall and via Shawhurst lane to complete the loop back to Alcester Road and then return to city.
As a limited stop service, particularly with the touted Bus priority measures being discussed for the A435, this would be a viable alternative to the train from Wythall, and would provide suitable quick competition to the new Kings Heath train station soon to be reopened. It would take about 50 minutes end to end. The Wythall and Dickens Heath loop would provide lots of new (and most importantly quick) links to Birmingham that do not exist currently, Dickens Heath has 1000s of houses and no direct bus or train route to Birmingham.
A rather long winded idea but one that I do feel would prove popular and allow for a decrease of the main 50 route to every 7/8 minutes with the x50 being at least every 12 minutes.
Quote from: j789 on April 23, 2021, 09:06:17 PM
Dickens Heath has 1000s of houses and no direct bus or train route to Birmingham.
Dickens Heath could alternatively be served from the Stratford Road I think? As its not far of the Stratford road.
They'd probably need to cut the trees back if it was served from the Whitlocks End direction. As from my memory there are lots of low trees on Tythe Barn Lane, so the double deckers can go down there.
Quote from: 2206 on April 23, 2021, 09:30:43 PM
Dickens Heath could alternatively be served from the Stratford Road I think? As its not far of the Stratford road.
They'd probably need to cut the trees back if it was served from the Whitlocks End direction. As from my memory there are lots of low trees on Tythe Barn Lane, so the double deckers can go down there.
Yes, Tythe Barn Lane would need some trees cut back but as it comes under Solihull I'm sure some arrangement could be made through the council and Network West Midlands to carry this out.
The reason for the '50 based' route as opposed to Stratford Road is to also provide Wythall with this service too, and also by serving the 50 route up to Maypole the X50 would be a useful route for shorter journey passengers too between there and the city. And also allow for a decrease in the normal 50 route frequency. It would be more difficult to divert off the Stratford road as it would mean taking a bus currently terminating at Solihull and instead bringing it to Dickens Heath which I don't think would be as financially viable as my X50 suggestion.
Quote from: j789 on April 23, 2021, 09:42:09 PM
Yes, Tythe Barn Lane would need some trees cut back but as it comes under Solihull I'm sure some arrangement could be made through the council and Network West Midlands to carry this out.
The reason for the '50 based' route as opposed to Stratford Road is to also provide Wythall with this service too, and also by serving the 50 route up to Maypole the X50 would be a useful route for shorter journey passengers too between there and the city. And also allow for a decrease in the normal 50 route frequency. It would be more difficult to divert off the Stratford road as it would mean taking a bus currently terminating at Solihull and instead bringing it to Dickens Heath which I don't think would be as financially viable as my X50 suggestion.
I thought it could possibly loop down to serve the clock stop then back up to the Stratford Road and into Solihull direct via the YW6 route.
It could then replace the A4/A5 link to Shirley & Solihull. As there's no low trees on that route so could use the electric double deckers.
Quote from: 2206 on April 23, 2021, 09:51:22 PM
I thought it could possibly loop down to serve the clock stop then back up to the Stratford Road and into Solihull direct via the YW6 route.
It could then replace the A4/A5 link to Shirley & Solihull. As there's no low trees on that route so could use the electric double deckers.
That could work, I actually thought my x50 idea too would replace part of the A4 route in Wythall and Dickens Heath as the current route is rather daft the way it goes so far round the reacon to get there.
I still prefer the Alcester road idea though, particularly as it will give NXWM ammunition to compete better with a faster city route than currently against the train when Kings Heath station opens. Also, if that cross city 50/82/87 route comes into place, the X50 would be an ideal route to run alongside on this side of the city.
Quote from: 2206 on April 23, 2021, 09:30:43 PM
Dickens Heath could alternatively be served from the Stratford Road I think? As its not far of the Stratford road.
They'd probably need to cut the trees back if it was served from the Whitlocks End direction. As from my memory there are lots of low trees on Tythe Barn Lane, so the double deckers can go down there.
Dickens Heath falls into that South-/East- ruralish Solihull that NX doesn't seem to want to operate in, probably due to the low population numbers.
Quote from: ellspurs on April 24, 2021, 06:14:54 AM
Dickens Heath falls into that South-/East- ruralish Solihull that NX doesn't seem to want to operate in, probably due to the low population numbers.
I can understand that approach concerning places like Knowle and Dorridge which are out of the way and also have good train links to Birmingham. Dickens Heath isn't like that as is only one mile from Shirley so isn't exactly out the way either. And with no direct train service to Birmingham, a direct bus service could work. NXWM already run a school service to Dickens Heath so I think it is feasible for them to do this without any extreme financial risks.
Quote from: j789 on April 24, 2021, 11:22:16 AM
Dickens Heath isn't like that as is only one mile from Shirley so isn't exactly out the way either. And with no direct train service to Birmingham, a direct bus service could work.
Whitlocks End station has regular trains to Birmingham, and is only a short distance from Dickens Heath.
One would imagine that commuters from Dickens Heath would either cycle or drive to the station as it is a Park And Ride site.
Quote from: Stu on April 24, 2021, 12:50:15 PM
Whitlocks End station has regular trains to Birmingham, and is only a short distance from Dickens Heath.
One would imagine that commuters from Dickens Heath would either cycle or drive to the station as it is a Park And Ride site.
It takes me about 20 minutes to walk from Whitlocks End to Dickens Heath. It's quite a long walk really.
So the time it takes to walk it, if there was a direct bus service you could be nearly in the City Centre on the bus in that time, if there was a direct bus service. So a Stratford Rd service rerouted to serve the clock stop could work I think.
Quote from: 2206 on April 24, 2021, 04:30:07 PM
It takes me about 20 minutes to walk from Whitlocks End to Dickens Heath. It's quite a long walk really.
So the time it takes to walk it, if there was a direct bus service you could be nearly in the City Centre on the bus in that time, if there was a direct bus service. So a Stratford Rd service rerouted to serve the clock stop could work I think.
I doubt it would work, the type of area gives more to rail travel
Quote from: 2206 on April 24, 2021, 04:30:07 PM
It takes me about 20 minutes to walk from Whitlocks End to Dickens Heath. It's quite a long walk really.
So the time it takes to walk it, if there was a direct bus service you could be nearly in the City Centre on the bus in that time, if there was a direct bus service. So a Stratford Rd service rerouted to serve the clock stop could work I think.
Well yeah, but like I said:
Quote from: Stu on April 24, 2021, 12:50:15 PM
One would imagine that commuters from Dickens Heath would either cycle or drive to the station as it is a Park And Ride site.
I don't know how well used the current A4 service is that runs through Dickens Heath, but the fact that it only exists via subsidy from TfWM probably says a lot. Maybe the few bus passengers from there are happy to just travel into Solihull, or change in Shirley for the 6 service to Birmingham.
https://uktransport.fandom.com/wiki/West_Midlands_Stratford_Road_bus_corridor
Seems that NXWM did look at extending the old route 4 (the one that went via Cheswick Green) through to Dickens Heath when they did the Solihull review, but ultimately decided that the roads weren't suitable for double deckers, so instead went for the more, direct 5 route and skipping out that area completely.
I'm sure someone can correct me if that info is wrong.
I used to like catching the 4 from Solihull to Birmingham (except the Springfield Road part). Never seemed to pick many people up in Cheswick Green.
Quote from: Stu on April 24, 2021, 06:19:35 PM
I don't know how well used the current A4 service is that runs through Dickens Heath, but the fact that it only exists via subsidy from TfWM probably says a lot. Maybe the few bus passengers from there are happy to just travel into Solihull, or change in Shirley for the 6 service to Birmingham.
You're right. Dickens Heath is an affluent area and not good bus territory. Few people seem to use the almost new Enviro 200MMCs that Landflight operate on the A4 and A5. The train, on the other hand, is
very popular and Whitlocks End Station car park used to get quite full in pre-Covid times with people driving from Dickens Heath and also Wythall.
Even if there was a market for a direct bus service to Birmingham, the Alcester Road and Stratford Road do not really lend themselves to fast services - which is one reason why the railway is so popular. The quickest way would probably be to extend the 3 via Green Lane and Haslucks Green Road, although Tythe Barn Lane would need major reconstructing to make is suitable for buses.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on April 24, 2021, 08:07:27 PM
You're right. Dickens Heath is an affluent area and not good bus territory. Few people seem to use the almost new Enviro 200MMCs that Landflight operate on the A4 and A5. The train, on the other hand, is very popular and Whitlocks End Station car park used to get quite full in pre-Covid times with people driving from Dickens Heath and also Wythall.
Even if there was a market for a direct bus service to Birmingham, the Alcester Road and Stratford Road do not really lend themselves to fast services - which is one reason why the railway is so popular. The quickest way would probably be to extend the 3 via Green Lane and Haslucks Green Road, although Tythe Barn Lane would need major reconstructing to make is suitable for buses.
The problem with the A4 is the non-sensical 'round the reacon' route it takes. It only really suits old folks who don't mind a longer journey to Solihull, it's certainly not an efficient alternative to the car. It would be better to make the A4 a direct route running Solihull - Dickens Heath - Wythall then terminate at the Maypole. This would be more direct and not have it repeating the same areas more than once.
We my suggestion of the X50, the Wythall and Dickens Heath loop would take around 15-20 minutes max. As this route would also allow for a slight decrease in the normal 50 route frequency, it could make this whole route more feasible as the Maypole to City section could subsidise the new loop part. Hopefully, running a decent frequency of 12-15 minutes would encourage more usage in these areas and eventually not need any subsidising from the rest of the route.
Dickens Heath is certainly affluent but there are areas of social housing and recent development plans suggest up to 2000 new houses be built there in the next few years.These will have to include up to 25% cheaper housing so many more potential passengers would be available. I can understand that any new route is a massive risk and cost outlay initially but I do feel this idea has potential to be successful and tap into a currently non- bus using market.
If i'm honest, I don't really see a need for a direct Birmingham service along the Station Road area and round Whitlocks End, mainly due to the fact that the train is within close proximity. The Johnsons 150 from Becketts Island is practically an 'express' version of the 50 through Kings Heath & Moseley, as the majority of people let it go past in favour of NX/Diamond. However, it doesn't really see much usage between the Maypole and the City Centre, only really seeing usage between the Maypole and Redditch.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on April 24, 2021, 08:07:27 PM
You're right. Dickens Heath is an affluent area and not good bus territory. Few people seem to use the almost new Enviro 200MMCs that Landflight operate on the A4 and A5. The train, on the other hand, is very popular and Whitlocks End Station car park used to get quite full in pre-Covid times with people driving from Dickens Heath and also Wythall.
Even if there was a market for a direct bus service to Birmingham, the Alcester Road and Stratford Road do not really lend themselves to fast services - which is one reason why the railway is so popular. The quickest way would probably be to extend the 3 via Green Lane and Haslucks Green Road, although Tythe Barn Lane would need major reconstructing to make is suitable for buses.
Puzzles me why you would design a road NOT to take buses in the first place!
Quote from: Westy on April 24, 2021, 10:17:02 PM
Puzzles me why you would design a road NOT to take buses in the first place!
Landflight might have used Tythe Barn Lane on diversion, when Dickens Heath Rd was closed at some point. I'm sure I vaguely remember going up there on a E200 MMC once. I wanted the Campion Way stop and ended up by Tidbury Green Car Garage place as it turned off, without saying onto Tythe Barn Lane and so had a long walk back, this would have been August 13th 2019.
I think it'd be the trees and those trees that would stop the deckers going up and have probably been there for years I expect.
Quote from: Westy on April 24, 2021, 10:17:02 PM
Puzzles me why you would design a road NOT to take buses in the first place!
Tythe Barn Lane was originally a country Lane until they built the huge Dickens Heath estate in the late 1990s so wasn't designed for large vehicles. However, it is only really the top end of the road near Whitlocks End station that would need tree pruning as the bottom end where the housing estate is has the capacity for larger vehicles. The road itself is wide enough for buses and two way traffic, even though the speed reduction 'furniture' may need changing for buses with speed ramps rather than the current situation.
I recall a number of passengers who would catch the S3W from Dickens Heath to Maypole and then change onto a Diamond 50. I think the X50 idea is decent, however the 12 min frequency is very optimistic. 20 mins at the highest frequency is still optimistic in my opinion. I would tweak the route to serve Shawhurst Lane as per the current A4 though.
On another note, the S3/W seemed far more busier that the A4/A5. A number of passengers from Shirley going to Knowle/Hockley Heath. I've not driven the A4/A5 for around 2 years now so my take isn't the most accurate.
I'd tweak the WN 15 so it went back to every 15, but alternate ones would run via Wordsley as a 15A running Hickman Road, Leys Road, Brierley Hill Road, High Street, Stream Road, rejoining the 15 at the Portway but terminating at Wombourne.
The remaining journeys designated 15 I'd run the full length of Bromley Lane, leaving Tiled House Lane to the 226.
Quote from: Stu on April 24, 2021, 12:50:15 PM
Whitlocks End station has regular trains to Birmingham, and is only a short distance from Dickens Heath.
One would imagine that commuters from Dickens Heath would either cycle or drive to the station as it is a Park And Ride site.
In principle, I agree that Dickens Heath has Whitlocks End however by the same logic Monkspath and Widney have Widney Manor yet it still has a frequent bus service so I think they're surely has to be something on top.- Maybe now with the CAZ, NX might consider something, at the very least a service to link Dickens Heath to the station.
Quote from: bususer28 on April 25, 2021, 09:15:02 AM
In principle, I agree that Dickens Heath has Whitlocks End however by the same logic Monkspath and Widney have Widney Manor yet it still has a frequent bus service so I think they're surely has to be something on top.- Maybe now with the CAZ, NX might consider something, at the very least a service to link Dickens Heath to the station.
NX do consider all these estates as seen by the extensions to Lichfield, Cannock & Nuneaton recently.
People from Monkspath area do not come into Birmingham by bus in any numbers to support a service, but the 5 serves lots of other links and just happens to come to Birmingham
Quote from: bususer28 on April 25, 2021, 09:15:02 AM
In principle, I agree that Dickens Heath has Whitlocks End however by the same logic Monkspath and Widney have Widney Manor yet it still has a frequent bus service so I think they're surely has to be something on top.- Maybe now with the CAZ, NX might consider something, at the very least a service to link Dickens Heath to the station.
But Landflight's A4 service already links Dickens Heath to Whitlocks End station as well as Solihull station. Why would NX also need to provide this service?
Quote from: Stu on April 25, 2021, 10:14:27 AM
But Landflight's A4 service already links Dickens Heath to Whitlocks End station as well as Solihull station. Why would NX also need to provide this service?
Beyond Dickens Heath towards Whitlocks End that service is extremely infrequent. When I've caught the train there in the past, I've got to the stop outside Whitlocks End and that timetable has said its not coming for 45-50 minutes. So I've walked it instead.
An hourly service isn't going to be good for many people.
Plus last bus is at 17.30 and first one 8.00, so if you're travelling earlier/later than that again it's no good.
I think a direct service into Birmingham maybe as the 3 or down the Stratford Rd would be even better as then there'd be no need to have to get off and wait for the train.
Quote from: Tony on April 25, 2021, 09:55:57 AM
NX do consider all these estates as seen by the extensions to Lichfield, Cannock & Nuneaton recently.
People from Monkspath area do not come into Birmingham by bus in any numbers to support a service, but the 5 serves lots of other links and just happens to come to Birmingham
Do the team working on potential new route opportunities regularly revisit these same areas even after they have been initially ruled out for financial reasons? I only ask because an area may initially not seem very viable but with future developments those areas can then offer more potential for a viable route.
I do think both Wythall and Dickens Heath fall into this category as Wythall has seen several large housing developments completed (including a fair % of social housing) since the 50A route was discontinued. As I mentioned earlier, there are plans in the near future to build upwards of 2000 houses in Dickens Heath and nearby areas which again may mean that a new service may become viable. Say 2500 new houses, that may be another 10000 people living there and even if only 1% of those were potential passengers that's still 100 people who could contribute to a viable service.
Quote from: j789 on April 25, 2021, 04:53:05 PM
Do the team working on potential new route opportunities regularly revisit these same areas even after they have been initially ruled out for financial reasons? I only ask because an area may initially not seem very viable but with future developments those areas can then offer more potential for a viable route.
I do think both Wythall and Dickens Heath fall into this category as Wythall has seen several large housing developments completed (including a fair % of social housing) since the 50A route was discontinued. As I mentioned earlier, there are plans in the near future to build upwards of 2000 houses in Dickens Heath and nearby areas which again may mean that a new service may become viable. Say 2500 new houses, that may be another 10000 people living there and even if only 1% of those were potential passengers that's still 100 people who could contribute to a viable service.
The new estate off Station Road is still within walking distance to the stop at Becketts Island for the 150. As I said earlier, the 150 doesn't see many through passengers to Birmingham.
Quote from: Pat on April 25, 2021, 05:10:59 PM
The new estate off Station Road is still within walking distance to the stop at Becketts Island for the 150. As I said earlier, the 150 doesn't see many through passengers to Birmingham.
There are three main issues with the 150 in Wythall meaning it is less well used than might otherwise be the case:
1) An hourly frequency is too low to attract potential passengers who have access to a car but may prefer travelling into the city by public transport. I believe the train from Wythall is also only every hour during non peak times so currently public transport there does not offer frequent enough links to Birmingham to be considered as a good alternative to the car. A more frequent service would be more attractive to passengers and increase usage.
2) The route only serves Alcester Road through Wythall, the majority of housing is not on this road, and yes while people can walk to the nearest stop on that road, it's not exactly attractive for potential passengers to have a 10-15 minute walk on top of the bus ride as opposed to using the car. A service looping round Wythall as suggested earlier would be much better (and could replace the A4 route in this area as it is quicker to go to Maypole and then get a 49 to Solihull than get the A4 direct).
3) The operator, who I think do a fine job on the routes they offer, but they lack the brand power and network that NXWM has. As is well known, the NWWM day ticket is very popular and having this offered is far more attractive than a equivalent smaller operators ticket, even if that is the same price. A NXWM route would be far more attractive as passengers would only need one ticket (whether day, week or month) to access a huge network of services, so it wouldn't just be City centre passengers this route would appeal to. As I said, I'm sure far more passengers would catch a NXWM in Wythall and change to a 49 at Maypole to Solihull rather than catch the long looping A4 route.
NXWM have the scale and network attraction to make this work, the same with Dickens Heath too.
Quote from: j789 on April 25, 2021, 05:34:27 PM
There are three main issues with the 150 in Wythall meaning it is less well used than might otherwise be the case:
1) An hourly frequency is too low to attract potential passengers who have access to a car but may prefer travelling into the city by public transport. I believe the train from Wythall is also only every hour during non peak times so currently public transport there does not offer frequent enough links to Birmingham to be considered as a good alternative to the car. A more frequent service would be more attractive to passengers and increase usage.
2) The route only serves Alcester Road through Wythall, the majority of housing is not on this road, and yes while people can walk to the nearest stop on that road, it's not exactly attractive for potential passengers to have a 10-15 minute walk on top of the bus ride as opposed to using the car. A service looping round Wythall as suggested earlier would be much better (and could replace the A4 route in this area as it is quicker to go to Maypole and then get a 49 to Solihull than get the A4 direct).
3) The operator, who I think do a fine job on the routes they offer, but they lack the brand power and network that NXWM has. As is well known, the NWWM day ticket is very popular and having this offered is far more attractive than a equivalent smaller operators ticket, even if that is the same price. A NXWM route would be far more attractive as passengers would only need one ticket (whether day, week or month) to access a huge network of services, so it wouldn't just be City centre passengers this route would appeal to. As I said, I'm sure far more passengers would catch a NXWM in Wythall and change to a 49 at Maypole to Solihull rather than catch the long looping A4 route.
NXWM have the scale and network attraction to make this work, the same with Dickens Heath too.
1) You need to think why there is an hourly frequency though. It's hourly for a reason - simply because there isn't the passenger numbers to warrant a more frequent service.
2) No matter how far or close the bus stops, it isn't necessarily going to change people's minds. Wythall is an affluent area, and the vast majority of people will own at least one car. The social housing you talk about makes up a small percentage of each estate's (Parklands/Regency Fields) population. Even then, people living in those properties are likely to own a car.
3) The availability of an NX daysaver is irrelevant. The majority of *limited* numbers who use the 150 service into Birmingham are likely to be travelling into and out of the city centre, rather than making lots of journeys. Even then, an nBus is available (cheaper than a return from Wythall to Birmingham anyway) which would enable people to make as many connections as they need.
My whole point is, Wythall and the surrounding area already has a bus and rail connection to Birmingham, even if it is irregular. To be honest, they are lucky to have that. Also, and I don't know why people seem to think this, but NX coming to an area isn't always going to boost passenger numbers. Even if they did, I can only see there being a limited, hourly frequency. But I doubt that will happen, given the limited number of people travelling on the 150 all the way into Birmingham.
While this has become a lively discussion, and I don't want to stifle the debate, I do have just one question.
Does anyone here actually live in Dickens Heath or Wythall?
Its all very well coming up with ideas, but without any understanding of what its like to live there and what your experience and needs are yourself, its all a bit moot.
Quote from: Stu on April 25, 2021, 07:03:16 PM
While this has become a lively discussion, and I don't want to stifle the debate, I do have just one question.
Does anyone here actually live in Dickens Heath or Wythall?
Its all very well coming up with ideas, but without any understanding of what its like to live there and what your experience and needs are yourself, its all a bit moot.
I don't live there, no, but I do know the area and have travelled on the 150 many times before.
Quote from: Pat on April 25, 2021, 06:48:13 PM
1) You need to think why there is an hourly frequency though. It's hourly for a reason - simply because there isn't the passenger numbers to warrant a more frequent service.
2) No matter how far or close the bus stops, it isn't necessarily going to change people's minds. Wythall is an affluent area, and the vast majority of people will own at least one car. The social housing you talk about makes up a small percentage of each estate's (Parklands/Regency Fields) population. Even then, people living in those properties are likely to own a car.
3) The availability of an NX daysaver is irrelevant. The majority of *limited* numbers who use the 150 service into Birmingham are likely to be travelling into and out of the city centre, rather than making lots of journeys. Even then, an nBus is available (cheaper than a return from Wythall to Birmingham anyway) which would enable people to make as many connections as they need.
My whole point is, Wythall and the surrounding area already has a bus and rail connection to Birmingham, even if it is irregular. To be honest, they are lucky to have that. Also, and I don't know why people seem to think this, but NX coming to an area isn't always going to boost passenger numbers. Even if they did, I can only see there being a limited, hourly frequency. But I doubt that will happen, given the limited number of people travelling on the 150 all the way into Birmingham.
I would argue that the main reason for an hourly frequency for the 150 is not lack of use in Wythall but more that after Wythall to Redditch is very rural with little population density and the route from Maypole to Birmingham has very high frequency competition on it. If NXWM were to run into Wythall this would be in tandem with the Maypole to City route so would be less of an issue as a higher frequency is needed on that part of the route. It would be feasible to think that an extension from the Maypole every 15-20 minutes could work with a slightly reduced number of buses going to Druids Heath terminus.
There are also more older social housing areas around Wythall, Shawfields, for example where a frequent bus service to Maypole, Kings Heath shopping centre and beyond would be useful.
The attraction of the NXWM day saver is that it could attract new passengers who currently don't use the 150. You may be right about the current passengers only going to the city and back but that doesn't mean there aren't untapped opportunities for shorter haul passengers who are currently mostly in catered for. Despite being 'outside' the West Midlands, the area is pretty much tagged onto Birmingham and most people will be familiar with the high frequency NXWM running just a mile up the road.
I have lived in this area for the last couple of years now and have heard multiple complaints about how unfair it is that there is a 4 minute frequency service to Maypole but pretty much nothing a mile further on. There is some real potential for a route with a decent frequency and NXWM would be best placed to run it as it could be combined with the normal 50 to minimise costs, something else the 150 has against it.
Quote from: j789 on April 25, 2021, 07:11:42 PM
I would argue that the main reason for an hourly frequency for the 150 is not lack of use in Wythall but more that after Wythall to Redditch is very rural with little population density and the route from Maypole to Birmingham has very high frequency competition on it. If NXWM were to run into Wythall this would be in tandem with the Maypole to City route so would be less of an issue as a higher frequency is needed on that part of the route. It would be feasible to think that an extension from the Maypole every 15-20 minutes could work with a slightly reduced number of buses going to Druids Heath terminus.
There are also more older social housing areas around Wythall, Shawfields, for example where a frequent bus service to Maypole, Kings Heath shopping centre and beyond would be useful.
The attraction of the NXWM day saver is that it could attract new passengers who currently don't use the 150. You may be right about the current passengers only going to the city and back but that doesn't mean there aren't untapped opportunities for shorter haul passengers who are currently mostly in catered for. Despite being 'outside' the West Midlands, the area is pretty much tagged onto Birmingham and most people will be familiar with the high frequency NXWM running just a mile up the road.
I have lived in this area for the last couple of years now and have heard multiple complaints about how unfair it is that there is a 4 minute frequency service to Maypole but pretty much nothing a mile further on. There is some real potential for a route with a decent frequency and NXWM would be best placed to run it as it could be combined with the normal 50 to minimise costs, something else the 150 has against it.
Actually, I've seen a large number of passengers from Maypole onwards use the service to Redditch, so I'd argue that the bulk of passengers are on that section. Whilst the Maypole - City section does pick up some people, these are always either ENCTS or travelcard holders, who are only travelling a couple of stops.
The NX daysaver in my opinion is a false economy. For only 20p extra, you can travel on virtually every bus in the West Midlands, with a very limited number of exceptions.
With the frequency complaints, I've never seen buses through Hollywood, Drakes Cross and Wythall to be particularly busy to warrant more than an hourly frequency. If people are complaining that they want more buses, then why are the already existing services not busy enough?
Quote from: Pat on April 25, 2021, 07:25:33 PM
. If people are complaining that they want more buses, then why are the already existing services not busy enough?
I think the point is people find turn up & go services more attractive. Such as the X20/X21/X22 between City Centre and University Station, where you don't need a timetable.
On a 4 week basis, from what I've seen online there's a £10 difference between the NX Travelcard and an nbus monthly.
Travelcard - £59.95 (online subscription)
Nbus - £69
When working class people are forking out for them and their children's bus passes, it makes all the difference when looking at season tickets and not daily tickets.
I recall in my school days there being a £10-ish difference in my nbus/Busmaster and the TWM Travelcard (Term pass).
Now whilst it's only a tenner, it makes a huge difference to some people. If you're paying for 3 bus passes, that's approx £30 a month.
NX and it's dominance over the West Midlands is a massive advantage it has over every other operator. It's definitely not a false economy.
Quote from: Pat on April 25, 2021, 07:25:33 PM
With the frequency complaints, I've never seen buses through Hollywood, Drakes Cross and Wythall to be particularly busy to warrant more than an hourly frequency. If people are complaining that they want more buses, then why are the already existing services not busy enough?
But the problem always has been (even in Midland Red days on the 177/78/79) that the frequency was never high enough to attract new passengers and decades have no gone by where residents in this area have had no choice other than the car. If a higher frequency route was tried I do think this status quo could be changed as people there would see that a regular bus service could be trusted to get them from A to B. An hourly service is just not going to give any potential new passengers that security that the bus can be relied on.
Even more so today with the emissions charges, a real push on using the bus as a viable alternative needs to be made and new markets open up possibilities. Yes you could say that there has been little bus use in this area for decades but that is mostly due to the lack of a decent, regular service that would actually appeal to users. I hope a regular service will get introduced at some point and this woefully under resourced area, transport wise, will benefit and make a successful service. Worcestershire county council should likewise be willing to engage with NXWM and offer some level of financial assistance at the start to test this route out. I can only hope!
Quote from: 2206 on April 25, 2021, 07:34:50 PM
I think the point is people find turn up & go services more attractive. Such as the X20/X21/X22 between City Centre and University Station, where you don't need a timetable.
That is true, but those services are busy enough to warrant a 'turn up and go' frequency.
The A4 service runs hourly through Dickens Heath with single deck vehicles, and needs TfWM subsidy to keep it operational. It would simply not be viable to increase it to a 'turn up and go' frequency.
Supply and demand.
Quote from: Stu on April 25, 2021, 07:45:46 PM
That is true, but those services are busy enough to warrant a 'turn up and go' frequency.
The A4 service runs hourly through Dickens Heath with single deck vehicles, and needs TfWM subsidy to keep it operational. It would simply not be viable to increase it to a 'turn up and go' frequency.
Supply and demand.
Exactly, well said Stu. There's no point in creating the capacity, for it to be under used. There needs to be the demand already there, but from what i've seen, there simply isn't.
Quote from: j789 on April 25, 2021, 07:41:12 PM
But the problem always has been (even in Midland Red days on the 177/78/79) that the frequency was never high enough to attract new passengers and decades have no gone by where residents in this area have had no choice other than the car.
But people do have an alternative to the car, in the form of already existing services!
Frequency isn't always linked to passenger numbers, more so the places that it serves. As Stu has already said, you can't create all of these services for the passenger numbers to be low.
Quote from: Stu on April 25, 2021, 07:03:16 PM
While this has become a lively discussion, and I don't want to stifle the debate, I do have just one question.
Does anyone here actually live in Dickens Heath or Wythall?
Its all very well coming up with ideas, but without any understanding of what its like to live there and what your experience and needs are yourself, its all a bit moot.
I grew up in Wythall and my father still lives there, so I'm often there.
I recall and often used hourly Midland Red Evesham - Birmingham services that came through Wythall. They were well used for many years, requiring double deckers until the late 1970s, but not by the 1980s.
In the late 80s Your Bus started running the 50Y every 20 minutes in competition with West Midlands Travel 50. Your Bus was based in Alcester, and the buses ran from Alcester to the Maypole in service, picking up through Wythall and charging bargain fares. They increased bus use by Wythall residents a bit, but the main effect was to abstract passengers from Midand Red West services which were reduced as a result.
Your Bus tried an off-peak Wythall - Birmingham service as well, with one bus, but that only lasted a year or so. After West Midlands Travel purchased Your Bus and moved operations to Miller Street, there was initially still enough trade to justify a peak hour Alcester - Wythall - Birmingham facility using one bus (which I believed was parked overnight in Alcester), but not for long.
I sometimes used the evening peak hour WMT 50A journeys to Wythall, and the number of passengers still on after the Maypole were always in single figures. Almost every time I used it, as soon as we took the Hollywood exit off the Maypole island, someone would come dashing down the stairs wondering why we weren't going to Druids Heath. Both Midland Red West and, later, Worcestershire County Council improved services through Wythall but unfortunately they did not succeed. Even then most Wythall residents could not be swayed from their cars. I believe Worcestershire County Council fund the Dickens Heath - Wythall section of the A4 as a relatively cheap way of retaining a Wythall - Solihull service.
I now live in Shirley, but recently I have done some long walks passing through Dickens Heath. Walking along Main Street there, where the shops and restaurants are, I have noticed that most parking are occupied. As in Wythall there are rather more cars than pedestrians.
Quote from: j789 on April 25, 2021, 07:41:12 PM
But the problem always has been (even in Midland Red days on the 177/78/79) that the frequency was never high enough to attract new passengers and decades have no gone by where residents in this area have had no choice other than the car. If a higher frequency route was tried I do think this status quo could be changed as people there would see that a regular bus service could be trusted to get them from A to B. An hourly service is just not going to give any potential new passengers that security that the bus can be relied on.
Even more so today with the emissions charges, a real push on using the bus as a viable alternative needs to be made and new markets open up possibilities. Yes you could say that there has been little bus use in this area for decades but that is mostly due to the lack of a decent, regular service that would actually appeal to users. I hope a regular service will get introduced at some point and this woefully under resourced area, transport wise, will benefit and make a successful service. Worcestershire county council should likewise be willing to engage with NXWM and offer some level of financial assistance at the start to test this route out. I can only hope!
I would have to say the old 177/8/9 routes very much did seem more aimed at people from the Redditch estates, the current route direct into Redditch Town Centre then onto the hospital makes more sense
Quote from: Justin Tyme on April 25, 2021, 07:57:12 PM
Your Bus tried an off-peak Wythall - Birmingham service as well, with one bus, but that only lasted a year or so. After West Midlands Travel purchased Your Bus and moved operations to Miller Street, there was initially still enough trade to justify a peak hour Alcester - Wythall - Birmingham facility using one bus (which I believed was parked overnight in Alcester), but not for long.
I sometimes used the evening peak hour WMT 50A journeys to Wythall, and the number of passengers still on after the Maypole were always in single figures. Almost every time I used it, as soon as we took the Hollywood exit off the Maypole island, someone would come dashing down the stairs wondering why we weren't going to Druids Heath. Both Midland Red West and, later, Worcestershire County Council improved services through Wythall but unfortunately they did not succeed. Even then most Wythall residents could not be swayed from their cars. I believe Worcestershire County Council fund the Dickens Heath - Wythall section of the A4 as a relatively cheap way of retaining a Wythall - Solihull service.
I now live in Shirley, but recently I have done some long walks passing through Dickens Heath. Walking along Main Street there, where the shops and restaurants are, I have noticed that most parking are occupied. As in Wythall there are rather more cars than pedestrians.
When I moved here in the later stages of the 50A route, I do agree most buses I saw after Maypole only had 5-6 passengers on. Not a lot it seems, however, if every bus had say 5 passengers to Wythall and then got another 5 passengers on around Wythall back to Maypole then on even a 20 minute frequency that would be over 350 additional passengers a day.
For a short Wythall loop like the old 50A it would be possible to add this to the existing 50 route network with only one additional bus needed (by inter working with the 50 and a slight decrease to the route to Druids Heath terminus).
I seem to recall Tony saying elsewhere on this site that adding one bus to a route costs about £100,000. Now, I do understand the point that starting with a brand new route is a big financial risk but in this instance only needing one extra bus would make it possible to do.The stated 350 new passengers a day, 6 days a week, over a year would pay for the £100,000 cost if each passenger was only contributing £1 a journey. (6 journeys an hour- 3 outbound 3 inbound- over a 12 hour day x 6 days x 52 weeks)
Therefore, the route would only need to attract 5 new passengers per journey to be viable, not the normal 20-30 that a brand new route would require. There are enough potential passengers in Wythall to achieve this small number of extra passengers per bus.
Quote from: j789 on April 26, 2021, 06:14:28 PM
When I moved here in the later stages of the 50A route, I do agree most buses I saw after Maypole only had 5-6 passengers on. Not a lot it seems, however, if every bus had say 5 passengers to Wythall and then got another 5 passengers on around Wythall back to Maypole then on even a 20 minute frequency that would be over 350 additional passengers a day.
For a short Wythall loop like the old 50A it would be possible to add this to the existing 50 route network with only one additional bus needed (by inter working with the 50 and a slight decrease to the route to Druids Heath terminus).
I seem to recall Tony saying elsewhere on this site that adding one bus to a route costs about £100,000. Now, I do understand the point that starting with a brand new route is a big financial risk but in this instance only needing one extra bus would make it possible to do.The stated 350 new passengers a day, 6 days a week, over a year would pay for the £100,000 cost if each passenger was only contributing £1 a journey. (6 journeys an hour- 3 outbound 3 inbound- over a 12 hour day x 6 days x 52 weeks)
Therefore, the route would only need to attract 5 new passengers per journey to be viable, not the normal 20-30 that a brand new route would require. There are enough potential passengers in Wythall to achieve this small number of extra passengers per bus.
Even at 10 passengers a trip it only just covers the £100,000 (average take per passenger is around £1)
It's probably a bad idea but even if NXWM don't want to take the risk, surely diamond could send some of there services around Wythall, in a similar way to how they extended the 16 to West Brom which seems to have worked.
Quote from: bususer28 on April 26, 2021, 06:49:32 PM
It's probably a bad idea but even if NXWM don't want to take the risk, surely diamond could send some of there services around Wythall, in a similar way to how they extended the 16 to West Brom which seems to have worked.
Still maintain that Diamond is better placed to make a route like the 150 work, with the 50 operating out of Redditch it even would help with driver hours and changeover etc, wasn't that even the reason the 16 started to be extended to West Brom?
Going to be unpopular with the himley residents but two of the three buses an hour to rerouted via the B4176 skipping himley with one bus an hour 15H doing the himley part.
After commuting to wolves 5days a week probably only get 1 passenger boarding every other day
I have just seen London's proposal for the "Superloop" express bus network. I believe it is separate buses rather than one bus but it just got me thinking about the outer circle 11A/C. The journey I make tends to take 55-60 minutes on the bus, whereas the car journey takes 18 (via a quicker route). I know that taking the 11 for me is always unappealing due to the long nature of the route. With its curtailing due to reliability issues too, I know some passengers are unhappy with changing at Acocks Green. I am curious as to how popular an express circular route would be. The route would not necessarily be the same, but instead more directly link key areas like Acocks Green, Kings Heath, Selly Oak, Perry Barr, Erdington etc. Surely this would be attractive to passengers who could easily travel around outskirts without having to go via city centre or go on the excessively long circular journey. After all, not everyone travels from the city centre! The 11 is obviously very useful and the stops between areas are well-used, but an X11A or X11C (horrible numbers!) would surely benefit people who want to make a more direct journey between outer areas.
Quote from: Bus1237 on March 29, 2023, 11:46:59 PMI have just seen London's proposal for the "Superloop" express bus network. I believe it is separate buses rather than one bus but it just got me thinking about the outer circle 11A/C. The journey I make tends to take 55-60 minutes on the bus, whereas the car journey takes 18 (via a quicker route). I know that taking the 11 for me is always unappealing due to the long nature of the route. With its curtailing due to reliability issues too, I know some passengers are unhappy with changing at Acocks Green. I am curious as to how popular an express circular route would be. The route would not necessarily be the same, but instead more directly link key areas like Acocks Green, Kings Heath, Selly Oak, Perry Barr, Erdington etc. Surely this would be attractive to passengers who could easily travel around outskirts without having to go via city centre or go on the excessively long circular journey. After all, not everyone travels from the city centre! The 11 is obviously very useful and the stops between areas are well-used, but an X11A or X11C (horrible numbers!) would surely benefit people who want to make a more direct journey between outer areas.
What ever route you take an express route just wouldn't get through traffic, it would be impossible to manage
Regarding the 45 by Diamond.
I would modify the 4O so as it leaves Stone Cross for West Bromwich it stops in the 45 stop then Walsall Road, Beaconview Rd, Charlemont Road then normal line of route and same in reverse but I'm reverse the 40 stops in its usual stop heading to Wednesbury.
I would reinstate the full 966 (now partly X12) using an X series number and extend it to Coventry but make it fully limited stop letting the current X1 become a fully all stops service under a different number,
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 30, 2023, 11:45:34 AMI would reinstate the full 966 (now partly X12) using an X series number and extend it to Coventry but make it fully limited stop letting the current X1 become a fully all stops service under a different number,
X1 is already all stops after the Wheatsheaf all the way to Coventry?
The later version of the 966 was replaced by the 96 and X12. So not sure whether there'd be much point?
Cv 2 back to every 30 minutes extend to uhcw so tile hill have a bus to uhcw again
Quote from: 2206 on March 30, 2023, 11:56:15 AMX1 is already all stops after the Wheatsheaf all the way to Coventry?
The later version of the 966 was replaced by the 96 and X12. So not sure whether there'd be much point?
Only as long as it starts in Wolverhampton - I'm a purist!
Didn't there used to be a route running Wolves, Essington, Cheslyn Hay onto Bloxwich?
Would an updated version of that solve the problem of Wolves to Essington & Cheslyn Hay to Bloxwich, possibly continuing to Walsall?
If I had the chance I would re-introduce the short lived 226W to West Bromwich the 226 (as it currently does) serves Wall Heath I noticed that Diamond have scrapped that from next month (I think) because as per it probably never caught on and I'm not really surprised this is where I think the 226 running it's current route to Dudley then extend to West Bromwich would catch on because let's face it the 42 no longer runs to West Bromwich from Dudley I know IF I ever set up a company this would be a service I would operate
first of all yes i know im late but i should point out that 14 is diverted through Highfield road every now and then as are the 94 and 95 but that's much more rare
Quote from: AGPlaysMC on May 22, 2023, 11:32:25 PMfirst of all yes i know im late but i should point out that 14 is diverted through Highfield road every now and then as are the 94 and 95 but that's much more rare
Whilst that road has been used in the past. The normal diversion for the 14 when there is a problem on the Alum Rock Road tends to be to run along the full length of the Washwood Heath Road to Fox and Goose, Stechford Lane, NLR.
Extend the cv2 to the university hospital that way people in tile hill south have a link to the hospital w/o having to change buses
Also with it being only 1 an hour they could inter work with another route
Extend the WN59 & WN11 to Essington & Cheslyn Hay twice an hour (59A & 11A) to provide links to Wednesfield, New Cross & Cannock Road corridor.
Chaserider offer some links, and NX have tried similar services to Essington.
Extend cv11 to serve Warwick bus station every hour in the summer and every 2 hours in the winter months to compete with stagecoach x17/x18 services
I know people will say "why does everything have to be renumbered". But since we have the 94 going through castle Brom', 95 shard end, 97 meadway. Wouldn't a 96/X96 fit in the sequence.
I notice a whole lot of people onboard from C Wood, do not get off until final few stops after going past Stechford. Having to sit through that traffic... Something needs to change route wise 100%, the renumbering seems a good shout.
The |14| Is kind of an odd one out. It will need rerouting due to Saltley works, Maybe a new service could replace it from dudeston to Washwood Heath via alum rock section ,, the havoc on alum rock rd is just torturous. A new x96 limited stop from Stechford ~ city..?
Quote from: Owen on August 21, 2023, 02:55:22 AMI know people will say "why does everything have to be renumbered". But since we have the 94 going through castle Brom', 95 shard end, 97 meadway. Wouldn't a 96/X96 fit in the sequence.
I notice a whole lot of people onboard from C Wood, do not get off until final few stops after going past Stechford. Having to sit through that traffic... Something needs to change route wise 100%, the renumbering seems a good shout.
The |14| Is kind of an odd one out. It will need rerouting due to Saltley works, Maybe a new service could replace it from dudeston to Washwood Heath via alum rock section ,, the havoc on alum rock rd is just torturous. A new x96 limited stop from Stechford ~ city..?
I thought of a something similar:
14 City-Stechford (Retail Park)
X96 City-Ward End (via Heartlands Parkway)-Stechford (Retail Park), then as remaining 14 route to Chelmsley Wood
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 21, 2023, 05:03:11 AMI thought of a something similar:
14 City-Stechford (Retail Park)
X96 City-Ward End (via Heartlands Parkway)-Stechford (Retail Park), then as remaining 14 route to Chelmsley Wood
If they renumbered the 14 to 93 or 98 then it could match the rest of the routes in Chelmsley Wood (you could also change the 71 to 91 at the same time).
An express route would be nice from Chelmlsey Wood to Birmingham, I thought of a route (lets give it the number
X9 to match the area)
Birmingham â–º Star City (via A47) â–º The Fort â–º then either fast down the A452 to Chelmlsey Wood or past clock garage, and down the B4114 going limited stop â–º then into Chelmsley Wood (with maybe peak time extentions to Business Park or something along those lines)
Another change I'd make is, to change the 96 so it goes along Cooks Lane and Chelmlsey Wood to give more service along those roads.
There was a limited stop from chelmsley Wood many years ago via collector Rd,Tyburn Rd and expressway every time I used it I was the only passenger normally directing the driver.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 21, 2023, 05:03:11 AMI thought of a something similar:
14 City-Stechford (Retail Park)
X96 City-Ward End (via Heartlands Parkway)-Stechford (Retail Park), then as remaining 14 route to Chelmsley Wood
Well yeah it wouldn't really have to change, just be shortened. inner city routes wouldn't be long routes. like this section being trapped in traffic for ages ~ no pint in being limited stop really. Only if they thought like us.
Quote from: midlandred2003 on August 21, 2023, 01:46:37 PMThere was a limited stop from chelmsley Wood many years ago via collector Rd,Tyburn Rd and expressway every time I used it I was the only passenger normally directing the driver.
Was that the 993/994 using Lynxes?
Quote from: Wumpty on August 21, 2023, 02:03:43 PMWas that the 993/994 using Lynxes?
Yes, previously the 962.
At morning/evening peak times the service would be packed from/to the stop on Lanchester Way before the Collector Road.
Congestion due to the many road projects going on in the area ultimately put paid to it. Used to love getting it to Birmingham, on a good day you'd be there in 20-25 minutes.
Quote from: GoldenSquid on August 21, 2023, 12:34:02 PMIf they renumbered the 14 to 93 or 98 then it could match the rest of the routes in Chelmsley Wood (you could also change the 71 to 91 at the same time).
An express route would be nice from Chelmlsey Wood to Birmingham, I thought of a route (lets give it the number X9 to match the area)
Birmingham â–º Star City (via A47) â–º The Fort â–º then either fast down the A452 to Chelmlsey Wood or past clock garage, and down the B4114 going limited stop â–º then into Chelmsley Wood (with maybe peak time extentions to Business Park or something along those lines)
Another change I'd make is, to change the 96 so it goes along Cooks Lane and Chelmlsey Wood to give more service along those roads.
Say 14 was shortened, looping back round at ... stechford lane > alum rock road. Renumbered a new inner city sequence. That would mean the rest of the route needs a service.
the routes 71, 96 should become something like e.g. 299, 298 (2** being a distinguishing numeric of east side outer city e.g.)
as for that route, sounds like it would be more to do with an x13 type service. (Which should be X93 btw) 😂
Quote from: midlandred2003 on August 21, 2023, 01:46:37 PMThere was a limited stop from chelmsley Wood many years ago via collector Rd,Tyburn Rd and expressway every time I used it I was the only passenger normally directing the driver.
993?
Quote from: ellspurs on August 21, 2023, 02:10:29 PMYes, previously the 962.
At morning/evening peak times the service would be packed from/to the stop on Lanchester Way before the Collector Road.
Congestion due to the many road projects going on in the area ultimately put paid to it. Used to love getting it to Birmingham, on a good day you'd be there in 20-25 minutes.
Originally the 162 before the 962
Yes it was the 162 a nice lift down to digbeth
Quote from: Tony on August 21, 2023, 03:28:17 PMOriginally the 162 before the 962
Operated by Sutton garage until it's closure in 1984 ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 21, 2023, 04:21:51 PMOperated by Sutton garage until it's closure in 1984 ?
Not sure. I think the 962 was transferred to Miller Street in the late 1970s. I recall at least one 962 ride on a DP National - I don't think any of those were allocated to Sutton? - and another on an ex-BCT Fleetline.
It was Digbeth when I used it,with dp leopards.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on August 21, 2023, 04:43:10 PMNot sure. I think the 962 was transferred to Miller Street in the late 1970s. I recall at least one 962 ride on a DP National - I don't think any of those were allocated to Sutton? - and another on an ex-BCT Fleetline.
Quote from: midlandred2003 on August 21, 2023, 05:21:06 PMIt was Digbeth when I used it,with dp leopards.
Didn't think Digbeth every operated it. It was always Sutton when my dad worked there which was from 1972 onwards. Sutton had some DP Leopards until the PTE takeover in 1973 then it was normally Fleetlines until the Ailsas arrived then they were the favourite for it. When Miller Street took over 4242 was a regular, that left the fleet in 1983 so it did move to Miller Street before Sutton garage closure in 1984.
The 962 I recall was operated by Timesaver branded mk2 Metrobuses. Think Lea Hall operated it in part at one time.
Quote from: Tony on August 21, 2023, 05:51:11 PMDidn't think Digbeth every operated it. It was always Sutton when my dad worked there which was from 1972 onwards. Sutton had some DP Leopards until the PTE takeover in 1973 then it was normally Fleetlines until the Ailsas arrived then they were the favourite for it. When Miller Street took over 4242 was a regular, that left the fleet in 1983 so it did move to Miller Street before Sutton garage closure in 1984.
You may be right Tony,I just remember more than once I asked the driver if he was going down to digbeth on a Friday evening so I had a lift down there.
Was the 107 a previous attempt of the 7? Where did it go?
Quote from: Owen on August 21, 2023, 02:55:22 AMI know people will say "why does everything have to be renumbered". But since we have the 94 going through castle Brom', 95 shard end, 97 meadway. Wouldn't a 96/X96 fit in the sequence.
There is already a 96 in that area, the one from Kingstanding to Chelmsley Wood.
Quote from: Owen on August 21, 2023, 07:04:57 PMWas the 107 a previous attempt of the 7? Where did it go?
The 107 is the current 907 but serving all stops, there was also a 113 which went to Streetly via New Oscott and a 42 to Erdington via New Oscott.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 21, 2023, 08:00:45 PMThe 107 is the current 907 but serving all stops, there was also a 113 which went to Streetly via New Oscott and a 42 to Erdington via New Oscott.
Yes, that makes sense now. I seen a picture of one in service but no maps.
Quote from: Stu on August 21, 2023, 07:36:46 PMThere is already a 96 in that area, the one from Kingstanding to Chelmsley Wood.
X96/ X98 ?
The 962 was also the night service if I remember correctly?
Imo. I think that if the 3 digits made a come back everything would be much more organised as it were.
For city routes ~ 1**, 2**, (9** fast).
All other prefixes for routes that don't go in city centre + Black Country.
I'd have X** for anything that is actually going to be limited stop.
Hagleys routes something like...
12 -> 112
12A -> 112A
13 -> 113
13A -> 114
126 -> 115
- reasonably distinguishable I think.
13 + 13a only share half a route just like 23/24, 65/67 94/95 do exc (sister routes), while the 12/A variant make sense. The 13s have drastically separate directions/ terminals.
To re organise the route system. You can't change a route number if one already exists.
This is just wishful thinking btw
Quote from: Owen on August 26, 2023, 02:02:19 AMImo. I think that if the 3 digits made a come back everything would be much more organised as it were.
For city routes ~ 1**, 2**, (9** fast).
All other prefixes for routes that don't go in city centre + Black Country.
I'd have X** for anything that is actually going to be limited stop.
Hagleys routes something like...
12 -> 112
12A -> 112A
13 -> 113
13A -> 114
126 -> 115
- reasonably distinguishable I think.
13 + 13a only share half a route just like 23/24, 65/67 94/95 do exc (sister routes), while the 12/A variant make sense. The 13s have drastically separate directions/ terminals.
To re organise the route system. You can't change a route number if one already exists.
This is just wishful thinking btw
The numbers have been messed around with enough, the simplification is to make it easier, even though I much preferred the old numbering system it's just having to get with the current times.
I still to this day do not understand the renumbering of the 120/7/8/9 when that system was fine and the routes near enough all do the same route, same goes for the 55 into the 95.
Quote from: Jack on August 26, 2023, 02:49:19 AMThe numbers have been messed around with enough, the simplification is to make it easier, even though I much preferred the old numbering system it's just having to get with the current times.
I still to this day do not understand the renumbering of the 120/7/8/9 when that system was fine and the routes near enough all do the same route, same goes for the 55 into the 95.
The simplification on majority of the network imo made matters worse. Theres a good few number '3' '4' '6' exc, routes being rinsed out all over the place now. The old system was simple and effective. It made more sense before imo.
For the small network covered here... every route could have its very own number, Routes that share a corridor could have short orderly sequence to match each other (like 934-7). Independent routes could miss out a few going up the sequence to show its own. which I think would prove to be effective if implemented all over. I wouldn't think anyone with a functional brain in this age would have any confusion about this numerical system once known.
After all, it's only a 1 digit prefix added, surprised they can remember the current if anything aha
The NX 9 should have been renumbered as something else when it was extended to Wolverhampton as there was already a service 9 into the city, even it was just 9W.
As for the 126, it fitted in well with the 120 etc group but now seems (like the 529) an oddity with the other routes being numbered 12, 12A etc. Personally I think they should have remained as they were.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on August 26, 2023, 10:03:20 AMThe NX 9 should have been renumbered as something else when it was extended to Wolverhampton as there was already a service 9 into the city, even it was just 9W.
As for the 126, it fitted in well with the 120 etc group but now seems (like the 529) an oddity with the other routes being numbered 12, 12A etc. Personally I think they should have remained as they were.
The 126 could run limited stop from B'ham to Wolverhampton Road and be numbered X11
QuoteThe 126 could run limited stop from B'ham to Wolverhampton Road and be numbered X11
Or extended to Wolvo (with the Limited stop section on the Hagley Rd) and renumbered X8A...
Quote from: the trainbasher on August 26, 2023, 01:15:55 PMOr extended to Wolvo (with the Limited stop section on the Hagley Rd) and renumbered X8A...
That's terrible 😂
Maybe X7 better
There was an X7 when the X8 was introduced as one went the same way as the 126 did before being curtailed to Dudley only and the other went along the 87 route into Birmingham. Can't remember when it was withdrawn though
Quote from: Squiz1971 on August 26, 2023, 02:36:45 PMThere was an X7 when the X8 was introduced as one went the same way as the 126 did before being curtailed to Dudley only and the other went along the 87 route into Birmingham. Can't remember when it was withdrawn though
I know of it. But it's been gone sometime. Think about 4 years?
Quote from: Squiz1971 on August 26, 2023, 02:36:45 PMThere was an X7 when the X8 was introduced as one went the same way as the 126 did before being curtailed to Dudley only and the other went along the 87 route into Birmingham. Can't remember when it was withdrawn though
June 2019 the X7 went, shame it could have worked if the publicity was better.
Quote from: Jack on August 26, 2023, 02:55:18 PMJune 2019 the X7 went, shame it could have worked if the publicity was better.
and if the timings were better, when I did the X7 it arrived into every timing point really early.
Quote from: GoldenSquid on August 26, 2023, 08:41:50 PMand if the timings were better, when I did the X7 it arrived into every timing point really early.
Yes, I did it once and the timings weren't great I agree. It should have been given longer to establish a customer base which would then have helped with reducing waiting times.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on August 27, 2023, 09:14:55 AMYes, I did it once and the timings weren't great I agree. It should have been given longer to establish a customer base which would then have helped with reducing waiting times.
What could be a good idea is if the new Cross city service terminated at Oldbury instead of Dudley, then there could be a X87 running as 87 from Dudley to Oldbury then run similar to the old X7 to Birmingham
curtailing the 126 to Dudley to make the 140 extend to Wolverhampton (rest of 126). Made no sense doing that. The 126 had platinum Mmc then standard Mmc. Now ex cov e400s
I really think a combination of the X5 and 110 would work well...
Whole X5 route from brum to slade road > weeford road > Tamworth road... rest of 110 to Tamworth
Litchfeild to Sutton on 3/X3
Tamworth to Sutton on X5
The falcon lodge bit of the x4 integrated into another existing Sutton route, good call could be as an X14a.
Quote from: Owen on September 11, 2023, 07:56:58 PMI really think a combination of the X5 and 110 would work well...
Whole X5 route from brum to slade road > weeford road > Tamworth road... rest of 110 to Tamworth
Litchfeild to Sutton on 3/X3
Tamworth to Sutton on X5
The falcon lodge bit of the x4 integrated into another existing Sutton route, good call could be as an X14a.
What's wrong with the current 110?
Nothing wrong with the X4 and X14 either, the X4 used to go to Minworth until 2 years ago...
Quote from: Jack on September 12, 2023, 09:05:58 PMWhat's wrong with the current 110?
Nothing wrong with the X4 and X14 either, the X4 used to go to Minworth until 2 years ago...
This is a constructive thread where people voice their personal
opinions, and
ideas, that we think could be improved. 9/10 - not at all likely to happen (just ideas). I think people would prefer you to keep your disagreements in more factual threads, since your not at all constructive.
Anyway, I wasn't saying any of these services were bad. I had an idea that these services could have some possible "improvements" (IMO) that some people might like.
Quote from: Owen on September 11, 2023, 07:56:58 PMI really think a combination of the X5 and 110 would work well...
Whole X5 route from brum to slade road > weeford road > Tamworth road... rest of 110 to Tamworth
Litchfeild to Sutton on 3/X3
Tamworth to Sutton on X5
The falcon lodge bit of the x4 integrated into another existing Sutton route, good call could be as an X14a.
Would this be as well as the existing 110 service? So both the X5 and 110 competing?
The problem would be the bridge at Canwell maybe?
Quote from: Owen on September 11, 2023, 07:56:58 PMI really think a combination of the X5 and 110 would work well...
Whole X5 route from brum to slade road > weeford road > Tamworth road... rest of 110 to Tamworth
Litchfeild to Sutton on 3/X3
Tamworth to Sutton on X5
The falcon lodge bit of the x4 integrated into another existing Sutton route, good call could be as an X14a.
Youd leave a good amount of whitehouse common without a frequent and direct bus service by changing the 110 that way
Quote from: Dutsey on September 13, 2023, 10:01:52 AMWould this be as well as the existing 110 service? So both the X5 and 110 competing?
The problem would be the bridge at Canwell maybe?
More like an nx takeover, I think the X5 does well. And the 110 always has done. The X3 and X5 offering destinations to Lichfield and Tamworth would be great as people wouldn't have to pay for an arriva ticket and would offer a few more stops before hitting Sutton. Could probably interwork together great. The only problem that could occur... im thinking could be over hanging trees on weeford road.
When I thought about this my after thought was that the X4 would be left out, with not much choice of routing to any well connected outer city destination. So with these two 'proposed' services the only difference the X4 would offer is falcon lodge crescent, fairfax road, and Reddicap Heath road. Which could become part of existing Sutton services. Probably better an X14a variant with a minor increase to work between the two, or rerouted X15 offering a lot more coverage and links. As the X15 has a lot in common with 77/A anyway so could be a good way of rerouting to link brim/Erdington/Walmley/ falcon/ Sutton in a different fashion to the X4. Kind of making it a faster alternative to some destinations. Something a bit different that could work perhaps.
Quote from: Owen on September 13, 2023, 05:19:32 PMMore like an nx takeover, I think the X5 does well. And the 110 always has done. The X3 and X5 offering destinations to Lichfield and Tamworth would be great as people wouldn't have to pay for an arriva ticket and would offer a few more stops before hitting Sutton. Could probably interwork together great. The only problem that could occur... im thinking could be over hanging trees on weeford road.
When I thought about this my after thought was that the X4 would be left out, with not much choice of an outer city destination. So with these two 'proposed' services the only difference the X4 would offer is falcon lodge crescent, fairfax road, and Reddicap Heath road. Which could become part of an a lot of existing Sutton services. Probably better an X14a or rerouted X15 offering a lot more coverage and links. As the X15 has a lot in common with 77/A anyway.
Arriva prices are for a reason, they're what's needed to even stand a chance of breaking even
Quote from: Tony on September 13, 2023, 05:22:00 PMArriva prices are for a reason, they're what's needed to even stand a chance of breaking even
I can understand that, it's just if there was an national express version, a day ticket would provide a lot more bang for buck in the Sutton area
Quote from: Owen on September 13, 2023, 05:39:50 PMI can understand that, it's just if there was an national express version, a day ticket would provide a lot more bang for buck in the Sutton area
You don't understand that or you wouldn't be asking for cheaper tickets again
Quote from: Tony on September 13, 2023, 05:44:37 PMYou don't understand that or you wouldn't be asking for cheaper tickets again
Well in this scenario it wouldn't be arriva would it! It would be the same passengers using the X5 and 110 combined in one route so people wouldn't need to pay for two bus tickets!
Quote from: Owen on September 13, 2023, 05:50:03 PMWell in this scenario it wouldn't be arriva would it! It would be the same passengers using the X5 and 110 combined in one route so people wouldn't need to pay for two bus tickets!
Whoever is operating the bus still needs to cover the costs. Sutton to Tamworth wouldn't cover its costs on NX prices, and if it was only one service as you suggest what about all the passengers that currently only have the 110 and the suggested route didn't serve? They would be lost making it even less viable
Quote from: Tony on September 13, 2023, 06:12:23 PMwhat about all the passengers that currently only have the 110 and the suggested route didn't serve?
Improved more frequent 78A service could cover Sutton - Whitehouse Common maybe, make it something more of use to passengers instead of 4x daily off peak.
Also going via Whitehouse Common Road and Barnard Road instead of the current route.
Also
@Dutsey the bridge at Canwell? I think the SFA1 goes under that bridge using Walsall double deckers?
Quote from: Owen on September 13, 2023, 05:50:03 PMWell in this scenario it wouldn't be arriva would it! It would be the same passengers using the X5 and 110 combined in one route so people wouldn't need to pay for two bus tickets!
What about people using the 110 at the tamworth end wanting to connect to any other Arriva service, they would have to pay twice whereas currently they don't
Quote from: Tony on September 13, 2023, 05:22:00 PMArriva prices are for a reason, they're what's needed to even stand a chance of breaking even
Serious question. Why does Arriva need to charge so much to break even beyond the West Midlands. They have doubled their frequency in recent years to now have 33% of the services between Sutton and Birmingham. Their buses, when running reliably, are relatively busy and much busier than the X3 which charges only £4.50 day ticket to Lichfield.
If you base that it costs £50 per hour to run a bus, and you average about £1 take per passenger then you need 50 passengers to break even. In urban areas not only are there more available passengers journeys tend to be shorter so you can sell a seat more than once in an hour. With less passengers available and those that are occupying a seat for longer you have to have a higher average take from the fare
I wonder if the 80 service could offer a better connection into and around the city as so on...
Towards Birmingham;
•Ladywood middle way,
•St. Vincent St W,
•Lesson St,
•Great Tindal St,
•St. Vincent St,
•follow the 126 till Lyon queensway,
•Navigation St,
•Hill St,
•then normal line of route towards termini,
•then follow the other 8* services till Colmore Row
I'm this scenario we would loose;
- 3 stops on Ladywood/Islington row... middleway, otherwise covered by 8A
- 4 stops on bath row, otherwise covered by X21/22
And in essence we would gain;
- some new stops in Ladywood and hill St currently not serviced,
- An all around better connection around the city centre,
- links to more bus services
The 80 briefly did a loop in 2017/2018 (as did the old 98/X64) and I thought it was a very good link.
Quote from: Jack on September 27, 2023, 11:26:14 PMThe 80 briefly did a loop in 2017/2018 (as did the old 98/X64) and I thought it was a very good link.
I wasn't aware of either of those at the time. This previous loop of the 80 I take it.. was when the current 80 was the 80A? And the old 80 followed the 82/7 link around?
Quote from: Owen on September 27, 2023, 11:40:00 PMI wasn't aware of either of those at the time. This previous loop of the 80 I take it.. was when the current 80 was the 80A? And the old 80 followed the 82/7 link around?
Was a temporary rerouting at the time due to delays on Bath Row.
Buses went into the City via Broad Street, Great Charles Street Queensway on the 80/80A and 98/X64.
Quote from: 2206 on September 27, 2023, 11:46:29 PMWas a temporary rerouting at the time due to delays on Bath Row.
Buses went into the City via Broad Street, Great Charles Street Queensway on the 80/80A and 98/X64.
I remember this diversion as it was the only time I've seen people consulted on one. A person come aboard a busy X64 with a clipboard and some flyers asking people to chose one option or the other. I opted for the Broad St diversion but I can't remember the other option.
Quote from: Owen on September 27, 2023, 11:03:42 PMI wonder if the 80 service could offer a better connection into and around the city as so on...
Towards Birmingham;
•Ladywood middle way,
•St. Vincent St W,
•Lesson St,
•Great Tindal St,
•St. Vincent St,
•follow the 126 till Lyon queensway,
•Navigation St,
•Hill St,
•then normal line of route towards termini,
•then follow the other 8* services till Colmore Row
I'm this scenario we would loose;
- 3 stops on Ladywood/Islington row... middleway, otherwise covered by 8A
- 4 stops on bath row, otherwise covered by X21/22
And in essence we would gain;
- some new stops in Ladywood and hill St currently not serviced,
- An all around better connection around the city centre,
- links to more bus services
As a regular user of the route, it would be very useful if it could serve Carrs Lane/Dale End, in the same way that the 45/47 do
Diamond send 150 to Bham again
Reinstate service 562 Wolverhampton to Brownhills and extend it to Lichfield.
As i have ridden on the X1 a few times I noticed a lot of people are doing the full trip to Coventry. the takes a lot longer than it should cause the bus has to go through Birmingham airport, Meriden, Parkhill estate and Allesley. My suggestion is make a new route that goes straight to Coventry that has less stops. It should be proper express service like the X51 to Walsall. The comparatively low fares on buses should make it an attractive choice over the train
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on October 07, 2023, 08:59:37 PMAs i have ridden on the X1 a few times I noticed a lot of people are doing the full trip to Coventry. the takes a lot longer than it should cause the bus has to go through Birmingham airport, Meriden, Parkhill estate and Allesley. My suggestion is make a new route that goes straight to Coventry that has less stops. It should be proper express service like the X51 to Walsall. The comparatively low fares on buses should make it an attractive choice over the train
Or if they made the X1 not serve Parkhill and Allesley Village and go limited stop along Holyhead Road - it'd save 10 minutes easily at minimum. Then make a 7 variation do the X1 route to Parkhill to serve those stops.
There used to be variations there that covered the routes.
The 6 used to do the 7 route to Allesley and then went to Parkhill Estate.
The 7 used to go straight down Holyhead Road to Allesley and then up to Browns Lane.
The 900 was limited stop down Holyhead Road, went through Allesley and then up the a45.
The late 90s saw the demise of the 6, the 7 taking over the 6's journey through Radford and the 900 stopping at all places on Holyhead Road and Parkhill. There was a time when the 900 didn't go up Parkhill but stopped at a bus stop on the roundabout. Journeys to Coventry had to go all the way around the roundabout to to go to this bus stop.
I never remember many people getting on/off at Parkhill so it may not be worth the hassle to change services to go up there.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on September 28, 2023, 08:12:50 PMReinstate service 562 Wolverhampton to Brownhills and extend it to Lichfield.
Big shout and totally agree. Personally, I'd omit Coppice Farm as there was (not sure about now) poor patronage, and extend it via Brownhills High Street, Shire Oak and left along the A461 to Lichfield.
I'd even go one step further with a limited stop version (X62 if you will), Wolverhampton, all stops to Wednesfield via Bentley Bridge, along Broad Lanes North & South to New Invention then limited stop to Mossley Cresswell Crescent, all stops to the 31 terminus at the old Eagle Pub site, limited stop to Bloxwich, limited stop to Shotlands Lane terminus, Pelsall Fingerpost, Clayhanger Lane, Brownhills Holland Park Terminus, Brownhills High Street, Shire Oak lights, Muckley Corner then all stops to Lichfield.
Yes, omitting Coppice Farm would be acceptable as the 69 already runs to Wolverhampton and Walsall via the estate. Passengers for Bloxwich can change to the 326 (as now) or catch the X62.
I wondered if incorporating the FD service into the main network could be possible. Maybe:
X13A City - Fort Dunlop - Spitfire Island - Collector Road - Parkfield Drive - X13 route to Chelmsley.
Or 66A City - Star City as the short trips do then to Fort Dunlop.
The FD only appears on the digital flags in the City Centre as well I think at present. Outside of the City Centre it isn't mentioned I don't think.
Quote from: 2206 on October 11, 2023, 08:30:06 PMI wondered if incorporating the FD service into the main network could be possible. Maybe:
X13A City - Fort Dunlop - Spitfire Island - Collector Road - Parkfield Drive - X13 route to Chelmsley.
Or 66A City - Star City as the short trips do then to Fort Dunlop.
The FD only appears on the digital flags in the City Centre as well I think at present. Outside of the City Centre it isn't mentioned I don't think.
I like your idea of the 66A replacing the FD, but I would extend it further to Castle Vale via Farnborough Road. The 67 could then go back to terminate at Castle Vale High Street.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 11, 2023, 08:54:02 PMI like your idea of the 66A replacing the FD, but I would extend it further to Castle Vale via Farnborough Road. The 67 could then go back to terminate at Castle Vale High Street.
I quite like this idea
Quote from: Lukeee on October 11, 2023, 09:59:12 PMI quite like this idea
Personally I don't. As a regular user of the route 67, I would hate to suffer through nechells. Birchfield road is bad enough.
Quote from: Owen on October 12, 2023, 12:42:30 AMPersonally I don't. As a regular user of the route 67, I would hate to suffer through nechells. Birchfield road is bad enough.
You could still use the 67, my proposed 66A wouldn't replace it except Farnborough Road
I would want a 28A from the edington to washwood hearth .and double deck then to do the 73 to Solihull
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 19, 2023, 11:03:23 PMI would want a 28A from the edington to washwood hearth .and double deck then to do the 73 to Solihull
A double deck 28 would be great but unfortunately it can't be. a 28A would be pointless though.
I would have the X12 from Birmingham to chelmsley wood, and the 72 route, joined up.
The X12 chelmsley wood to Solihull I would have the 71 or X13 replace.
72 is a brilliant route.
I would make the 6 (Walsall to Sutton) extend on the X14 route till Walmley village, then take on the 71 to Minworth Asda to terminate.
I'd reroute the X14 to go via the falcon lodge crescent like the X4 does currently. With that, I'd rid of the X4.
This 6 service would be a fast and direct route from Walsall to Minworth every 30 mins. Giving beneficial links; Minworth, falcon lodge, Sutton, hill hook, Aldridge and Walsall.
- with this i would reroute the 77 service to not go to Minworth.
Quote from: Liam Pettit on October 21, 2023, 04:54:12 PMI would have the X12 from Birmingham to chelmsley wood, and the 72 route, joined up.
The X12 chelmsley wood to Solihull I would have the 71 or X13 replace.
72 is a brilliant route.
First, how could you pair up the X12 and 72 when the X12 is every 30 minutes and the 72 is every 10 minutes.
Secondly, the 71 was cut to run Sutton and Chelmsley only for a very good reason which of course is reliabilty.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 21, 2023, 05:09:18 PMFirst, how could you pair up the X12 and 72 when the X12 is every 30 minutes and the 72 is every 10 minutes.
Secondly, the 71 was cut to run Sutton and Chelmsley only for a very good reason which of course is reliabilty.
Shorts. 72a, twice in half hour. 72, once in half hour.
71 was an idea. I'd have something else cover that part of the X12 maybe 97 or
X13...
Quote from: Liam Pettit on October 21, 2023, 05:16:53 PMShorts. 72a, twice in half hour. 72, once in half hour.
71 was an idea. I'd have something else cover that part of the X12 maybe 97 or X13...
A 97A to nec again every 30 minutes is good
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 21, 2023, 05:33:42 PMA 97A to nec again every 30 minutes is good
I mean yeah it was replaced by the X12. I don't think shorts, or half hour extensions are bad at all. The 72 only goes so far anyway, an added half hour extension can only be beneficial. it's not exactly like people choose to get a bus to the airport fgs. Yes the nec is a needed service but it's that close to Cwood something else could replace.
Quote from: Liam Pettit on October 21, 2023, 05:16:53 PMShorts. 72a, twice in half hour. 72, once in half hour.
71 was an idea. I'd have something else cover that part of the X12 maybe 97 or X13...
All this will do is make reliability worse.
Quote from: Liam Pettit on October 21, 2023, 07:34:24 PMHow though
The same way as what happened when the 72 previously ran through to Birmingham city centre.
It is a "brilliant route" now (in your words) because it does what it needs to do reliably, ie provides a link from Chelmsley Wood to Solihull via Marston Green, Garretts Green and Sheldon.
Quote from: Stu on October 21, 2023, 08:37:29 PMThe same way as what happened when the 72 previously ran through to Birmingham city centre.
It is a "brilliant route" now (in your words) because it does what it needs to do reliably, ie provides a link from Chelmsley Wood to Solihull via Marston Green, Garretts Green and Sheldon.
Yeah but the X12 does the expressway, Cwood, Solihull, fine. my proposal is a reroute of the X12 . It wouldn't do the previous 72 through washwood heath.
72 as of now is a good money maker too.
I would have the 16 be split into two routes akin to 4/4H/4M, 23/24, 45/47, 61/63, 82/87, etc and have one of them, I don't know call it 16W or something follow Newton Road and continue on to West Bromwich and have the 16 no longer terminate at Green Lane at all and continue on Newton Road to stop in Scott Arms as it already does.
This is essentially how the 82/87 works with them both following the same path until the 82 splits off in Cape Hill to terminate in Bearwood. I can't fathom why the 16 doesn't work in a similar fashion and would help greatly with the mess the current 16/16A is. it would also make the fallout from the 46's demise less. And for good measure I'd also let the 16 that continues to Scott Arms go down Old Walsall Road every half an hour at peak times instead of turning around in Scott Arms just so the folk on that road aren't left stranded like they have been.
The only thing stopping this from being a more feasible reality is that. stupidly, the 16 terminates at Green Lane. which I can't understand why NXWM have such a boner for.
Another idea is to have an X16 where it does limited stop from Birmingham to Hamstead, Green Lane and then once it passes the Green Lane terminus, stop at every stop.
Or we could just have the 46 back and have the 16 continue to West Bromwich. would achieve the same things really.
Quote from: 2206 on April 22, 2021, 11:54:55 PMWould enough passengers travel on the bus to a farm to justify a bus service however. Probably not, which explains why there is no service.
There doesn't seem to be any houses, shops or anything there. Just a farm and a walking path.
Also no bus deserves to be on this road. it's hell to drive down in an SUV, let alone a 10 meter bus. it physically wouldn't be possible with how this road works.
Quote from: jasmine on October 22, 2023, 12:16:19 AMI would have the 16 be split into two routes akin to 4/4H/4M, 23/24, 45/47, 61/63, 82/87, etc and have one of them, I don't know call it 16W or something follow Newton Road and continue on to West Bromwich and have the 16 no longer terminate at Green Lane at all and continue on Newton Road to stop in Scott Arms as it already does.
This is essentially how the 82/87 works with them both following the same path until the 82 splits off in Cape Hill to terminate in Bearwood. I can't fathom why the 16 doesn't work in a similar fashion and would help greatly with the mess the current 16/16A is. it would also make the fallout from the 46's demise less. And for good measure I'd also let the 16 that continues to Scott Arms go down Old Walsall Road every half an hour at peak times instead of turning around in Scott Arms just so the folk on that road aren't left stranded like they have been.
The only thing stopping this from being a more feasible reality is that. stupidly, the 16 terminates at Green Lane. which I can't understand why NXWM have such a boner for.
Another idea is to have an X16 where it does limited stop from Birmingham to Hamstead, Green Lane and then once it passes the Green Lane terminus, stop at every stop.
Or we could just have the 46 back and have the 16 continue to West Bromwich. would achieve the same things really.
Diamond already provide a frequent link on the 16A to West Bromwich which does what you suggest the 16W would do, indeed it was previously numbered 16W.
Quote from: jasmine on October 22, 2023, 12:42:44 AMAlso no bus deserves to be on this road. it's hell to drive down in an SUV, let alone a 10 meter bus. it physically wouldn't be possible with how this road works.
... wait what? This particular road is a very pleasant road to drive down. I've even been down it in my truck and the only problem was a few low hanging trees of which would be sorted out if a bus was to ever be routed up there.
As for the likelihood of that? Very unlikely unless there was an incident and it were done as a diversion.
I presume you've never seen the X1 or X12 loadings around shift start/finish times at the airport.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 22, 2023, 08:04:30 AMDiamond already provide a frequent link on the 16A to West Bromwich which does what you suggest the 16W would do, indeed it was previously numbered 16W.
Frequent? The 16 and 16A are a mess, the 46 is very much wanted back.
Quote from: Liam Pettit on October 21, 2023, 05:08:14 PMI would make the 6 (Walsall to Sutton) extend on the X14 route till Walmley village, then take on the 71 to Minworth Asda to terminate.
I'd reroute the X14 to go via the falcon lodge crescent like the X4 does currently. With that, I'd rid of the X4.
This 6 service would be a fast and direct route from Walsall to Minworth every 30 mins. Giving beneficial links; Minworth, falcon lodge, Sutton, hill hook, Aldridge and Walsall.
- with this i would reroute the 77 service to not go to Minworth.
I think the x14 should change number very confusing with a 14 already by city center
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 23, 2023, 12:19:38 AMI think the x14 should change number very confusing with a 14 already by city center
Nothing wrong with it. Don't know how you're confused when the destinations are different and one has a prefix. Was the change from 3 digit numbers to 1/ 2, not helpful enough to understand? I don't know how it could be simplified any more.
If anything the 14 should be put into the 90 series, but then again you'd be partial to that because it's of your locals.
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 23, 2023, 12:19:38 AMI think the x14 should change number very confusing with a 14 already by city center
Read the display 14 Chelmsley Wood X14 Sutton Coldfield. Its not confusing at all. They don't even stop at the same bus stop.
You also have the 2 and X2, 3, X3, etc.
Quote from: Liam Pettit on October 23, 2023, 12:22:48 AMNothing wrong with it. Don't know how you're confused when the destinations are different and one has a prefix. Was the change from 3 digit numbers to 1/ 2, not helpful enough to understand? I don't know how it could be simplified any more.
If anything the 14 should be put into the 90 series, but then again you'd be partial to that because it's of your locals.
Yes call it 90
Quote from: 2206 on October 23, 2023, 12:23:52 AMRead the display 14 Chelmsley Wood X14 Sutton Coldfield. Its not confusing at all. They don't even stop at the same bus stop.
You also have the 2 and X2, 3, X3, etc.
Is so repetitive, lots of other numbered available
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 22, 2023, 08:04:30 AMDiamond already provide a frequent link on the 16A to West Bromwich which does what you suggest the 16W would do, indeed it was previously numbered 16W.
Yes but as of 2023 it is nowhere near as reliable as NXWMs offering.
And before 2023 it didn't always go to West Bromwich anyway. It would be nice if Diamond kept this route as is currently and NXWM's 16 terminated at Scott Arms
Quote from: ellspurs on October 22, 2023, 08:35:21 AM... wait what? This particular road is a very pleasant road to drive down. I've even been down it in my truck and the only problem was a few low hanging trees of which would be sorted out if a bus was to ever be routed up there.
As for the likelihood of that? Very unlikely unless there was an incident and it were done as a diversion.
Maybe I just find it very scary from when it starts next to West Bromwich stadium to the horse crossings. that section is terrifying to me, especially at night. but I can't fathom how busses would be able to make those twists and turns.
The second half of the road that finishes on Newton Road is really nice though. I do like that bit. There's also the dilemma that if two busses going opposite ways meet eachother. none are getting past.
mfw 2/X2, 3/X3, 4/X4, 5/X5, (many years ago) 7/X7, 10/X10, 12/X12, 13/X13, 14/X14,
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 23, 2023, 12:30:54 AMIs so repetitive, lots of other numbered available
Its just using the number its had since basically forever
114>914>X14
Same with the 14 which has just been the 14 for the last 100 or so years
No reason to change what has worked for the last couple of decades (as the saying goes if it isnt broke dont fix it)
I'd have the NXC service service continue out of Rugby under the railway station bridge, along technology drive, past the newish retail park/tesco
Seems to be a lot demand for existing services in that area. Serves the houses, shops, railway station, college etc
Quote from: 2206 on October 23, 2023, 06:59:13 PMI'd have the NXC service service continue out of Rugby under the railway station bridge, along technology drive, past the newish retail park/tesco. 25 service maybe.
Seems to be a lot demand for existing services in that area. Serves the houses, shops, railway station, college etc
That is impossible due to some journeys being contracted for double decks
Quote from: Tony on October 23, 2023, 07:01:06 PMThat is impossible due to some journeys being contracted for double decks
Could do it for some of the single deck only journeys maybe?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/52.3721426,-1.2578611/52.4027136,-1.2959206/@52.3891482,-1.2706944,15z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-1.2538948!2d52.3820177!3s0x487740c3daae6e51:0xa4619977ac345229!3m4!1m2!1d-1.257821!2d52.3876093!3s0x487740db3f6f1761:0x638e6bce65de0d7!1m0!3e0?entry=ttu
Something like that maybe.
Instead of going via the station, you can send it up Clifton Road to Butlers' Leap, then either go via the estate at Broughton Lane and down the hill to the shops, or if you wanted to get closer to the station then back onto Mill Lane and down Technology Drive. Going via Technology Drive would serve the college there as well.
There is a bus layby at Tesco if a terminus was needed.
51 -> 131,
52 -> 132,
33 -> 133,
934/5/6/7,
997 -> 938
X51 -> 931
Keep corridors sequence chronological and unique. More importantly organise
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 23, 2023, 07:39:56 PM51 -> 131,
52 -> 132,
33 -> 133,
934/5/6/7,
997 -> 938
X51 -> 931
Keep corridors sequence chronological and unique. More importantly organise
I agree wholly on this
one keep *31-38 for one corridor, and next 10 up sequence for the next.
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 23, 2023, 07:39:56 PM51 -> 131,
52 -> 132,
33 -> 133,
934/5/6/7,
997 -> 938
X51 -> 931
Keep corridors sequence chronological and unique. More importantly organise
Why?
Nothing wrong with any of those numbers.
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 23, 2023, 07:39:56 PM51 -> 131,
52 -> 132,
33 -> 133,
934/5/6/7,
997 -> 938
X51 -> 931
Keep corridors sequence chronological and unique. More importantly organise
If you want them all to be similar numbers wouldn't it make sense to change the 33 to 53? Have all the 5x along the Walsall Road.
(I don't think they should be renumbered btw)
Quote from: GoldenSquid on October 23, 2023, 09:21:52 PMIf you want them all to be similar numbers wouldn't it make sense to change the 33 to 53? Have all the 5x along the Walsall Road.
(I don't think they should be renumbered btw)
The 33 doesn't serve Walsall Road.
The *3* comes from the Kingstanding area services, as the 33 and the 34 (934 replaced this).
The *5* comes from the Walsall Road, Great Barr area hence the 51, 52 and the old 59, 951/2's etc.
Living here it's all fine, doesn't need unnecessary renumbering.
Quote from: GoldenSquid on October 23, 2023, 09:21:52 PMIf you want them all to be similar numbers wouldn't it make sense to change the 33 to 53? Have all the 5x along the Walsall Road.
(I don't think they should be renumbered btw)
That'd mean the 33 and 93* would have to change. So either way to get them organised it would need change.
Birchfield road. *3* , litchfield road *6*
U are entitled to yours opinions. Me, would like organisation, less repetition, exc
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 23, 2023, 09:37:44 PMThat'd mean the 33 and 93* would have to change. So either way to get them organised it would need change.
U are entitled to yours opinions. Me, would like organisation, less repetition, exc
Or they can be left alone as they've worked for many years and still do the job fine.
Quote from: Jack on October 23, 2023, 09:42:01 PMOr they can be left alone as they've worked for many years and still do the job fine.
Numbers on destination screen isn't going to ruin your bus. Only make the network organised, professional, Broad understandable, and simple once set in place.
By the way, this title says 'if you had the chance (personally) to modify or add any service what would you do (my opinion)?'
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 23, 2023, 09:45:35 PMNumbers on destination screen isn't going to ruin your bus. Only make the network organised, professional, Broad understandable, and simple once set in place.
By the way, this title says 'if you had the chance (personally) to modify or add any service what would you do (my opinion)?'
I don't usually agree with ya. Too right 😎.
Quote from: Yasir6711 on October 23, 2023, 09:45:35 PMNumbers on destination screen isn't going to ruin your bus. Only make the network organised, professional, Broad understandable, and simple once set in place.
By the way, this title says 'if you had the chance (personally) to modify or add any service what would you do (my opinion)?'
No one said it will ruin a bus? But why is something going to be messed with.
The reason they all have different numbers is because of the routes not all following each other beyond Perry Barr...
Quote from: Liam Pettit on October 23, 2023, 09:49:31 PMI don't usually agree with ya. Too right 😎.
How come you two post from the same IP address and always seem to post together?
Quote from: Tony on October 23, 2023, 10:24:17 PMHow come you two post from the same IP address and always seem to post together?
Hopefully they're not the same person.
Quote from: GoldenSquid on October 08, 2023, 08:29:02 PMOr if they made the X1 not serve Parkhill and Allesley Village and go limited stop along Holyhead Road - it'd save 10 minutes easily at minimum. Then make a 7 variation do the X1 route to Parkhill to serve those stops.
Didn't the 900-in old money-go straight along the Holyhead Road?
Quote from: markcf83 on October 24, 2023, 03:03:11 PMDidn't the 900-in old money-go straight along the Holyhead Road?
Yes. I think it changed when the local all stop services were revised.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 24, 2023, 05:49:14 PMYes. I think it changed when the local all stop services were revised.
I thought as much. I do remember travelling on the 900 in the early 90's on the Timesaver Metrobuses and they flew like pooh off a stick on the road. (A45 from memory)
Quote from: markcf83 on October 24, 2023, 07:24:52 PMI thought as much. I do remember travelling on the 900 in the early 90's on the Timesaver Metrobuses and they flew like pooh off a stick on the road. (A45 from memory)
Back then, there was a right turn at the bottom of Millisons Wood back onto the a45 that buses could utilise (and the buses turned right off the a45 into Meriden). When they did improvement works mid-late 90s, these options were removed and it led to the 900 either skipping Millisons Wood on the way to Coventry or going down and having to come back up to use the bridge. You can still see where the bus lane was at the bottom of Millisons Wood.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4336117,-1.600132,3a,75y,48.72h,72.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8oZdQzpXDlTRK-1cSX0c5w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
From my memory of the route in the mid-90s, it was going through Allesley and was limited stop on the Holyhead Road but when they had a route review and removed the 6 to Parkhill Estate, the 900 replaced it and started stopping at all stops on Holyhead Road.
Quote from: ellspurs on October 24, 2023, 07:54:27 PMBack then, there was a right turn at the bottom of Millisons Wood back onto the a45 that buses could utilise (and the buses turned right off the a45 into Meriden). When they did improvement works mid-late 90s, these options were removed and it led to the 900 either skipping Millisons Wood on the way to Coventry or going down and having to come back up to use the bridge. You can still see where the bus lane was at the bottom of Millisons Wood.
Also on the journey towards Coventry there used to be a bear left slip off the A45 which may have been restricted to buses providing direct access to Birmingham Road, Allesley Village, saving the need of continuing down to Parkhill junction and coming back up Rye Hill.
Quote from: Jack on October 23, 2023, 08:20:35 PMWhy?
Nothing wrong with any of those numbers.
934/5/6/7 is honestly quite confusing, but that's because I wasn't aware of the 9XX system from days past. but even now in 2023 that whole set of routes is confusing. nxwm were right when they said 2 digit numbers were easily rememberable.
Quote from: JPC on October 24, 2023, 11:02:33 PMAlso on the journey towards Coventry there used to be a bear left slip off the A45 which may have been restricted to buses providing direct access to Birmingham Road, Allesley Village, saving the need of continuing down to Parkhill junction and coming back up Rye Hill.
The access road was for buses only, although I'm sure others sneaked through at times. Altogether with the previously mentioned right turns on to the A45 the 900 was a much faster journey than the current X1. It also ran every 15 minutes between Birmingham and Coventry.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 25, 2023, 09:34:19 AMThe access road was for buses only, although I'm sure others sneaked through at times. Altogether with the previously mentioned right turns on to the A45 the 900 was a much faster journey than the current X1. It also ran every 15 minutes between Birmingham and Coventry.
900 every 15 minutes between Birmingham and Coventry ?
The 900 only ran every 15 minutes all the way to Coventry on Saturdays in 1989/1990, otherwise is was every 20 minutes most of the time or every 15 minutes to Airport/NEC and every 30 minutes to Coventry.
Monday to Fridays peak-hours ran every 15 minutes to Coventry when it was 900 and X1
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 25, 2023, 11:42:56 AM900 every 15 minutes between Birmingham and Coventry ?
The 900 only ran every 15 minutes all the way to Coventry on Saturdays in 1989/1990, otherwise is was every 20 minutes most of the time or every 15 minutes to Airport/NEC and every 30 minutes to Coventry.
Monday to Fridays peak-hours ran every 15 minutes to Coventry when it was 900 and X1
I was a regular user of the 900 and used it in the week when it was still every 15 minutes. It dropped frequency in the week as part of a shake-up of services in 1988 which also saw the Birmingham - Hasbury section replaced by a 19.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 25, 2023, 03:32:40 PMI was a regular user of the 900 and used it in the week when it was still every 15 minutes. It dropped frequency in the week as part of a shake-up of services in 1988 which also saw the Birmingham - Hasbury section replaced by a 19.
The 900 was every 30 minutes when it ran from Hasbury to Coventry, In 1988 when the Hasbury section was replaced by the 19 the 900 was increased to every 20 minutes, the only other times it was every 15 minutes was on Saturdays in 1989/1990 and in peaks on Monday to Friday in recent years. It definitely was not every 15 minutes any other time.
- QUOTE (https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=320017;topic=3345)
- QUICK EDIT
- MORE...
Quote from: jasmine on October 25, 2023, 01:03:16 AM934/5/6/7 is honestly quite confusing, but that's because I wasn't aware of the 9XX system from days past. but even now in 2023 that whole set of routes is confusing. nxwm were right when they said 2 digit numbers were easily rememberable.
What confusing about them should have been around when all the bus services where 3 digits my routes where the 500/01/10
Quote from: woody38 on October 25, 2023, 03:59:29 PMWhat confusing about them should have been around when all the bus services where 3 digits my routes where the 500/01/10
Whilst not confusing as such, the 934/5/6/7, along with the 907 and 997, are anomalies with the trend to re-numbering most of the limited stop (and not so limited stop) services to X service numbers. With the concerted push towards standardisation and 'simplification' across the board, it's strange that stragglers like the 126, 529 and the 9xx number remain.
(FWIW, I liked the old numbering series)
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 25, 2023, 03:48:18 PMThe 900 was every 30 minutes when it ran from Hasbury to Coventry, In 1988 when the Hasbury section was replaced by the 19 the 900 was increased to every 20 minutes, the only other times it was every 15 minutes was on Saturdays in 1989/1990 and in peaks on Monday to Friday in recent years. It definitely was not every 15 minutes any other time.
Yeah, when I was catching it in Sheldon in the late 90s early 2000s it was every 20 minutes Mon-Fri. Always the rush to try and get the one that went through Meriden at 0920 as the first one past 0930 would fill up with concession pass holders.
Quote from: woody38 on October 25, 2023, 03:59:29 PMWhat confusing about them should have been around when all the bus services where 3 digits my routes where the 500/01/10
Or my local routes which were 550, 551, 553, 554, 555, 556 and 584 (although the latter was a Midland Red West rather than WMT).
Quote from: woody38 on October 25, 2023, 03:59:29 PMWhat confusing about them should have been around when all the bus services where 3 digits my routes where the 500/01/10
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 25, 2023, 06:37:30 PMOr my local routes which were 550, 551, 553, 554, 555, 556 and 584 (although the latter was a Midland Red West rather than WMT).
One of the challenges TWM faced with 3-digit system is space on the flip dot/LED blinds. With conventional 4-track roller blinds, they numbers were always the same size regardless.
With flip dot/LED, you're space constrained meaning that the numbers would be squashed to accommodate the destination wording - add that with a 4-digit number, e.g. 501E, then you're even more constrained, and from a distance, harder to read.
Change, like everything else, is always hard to accept at first, though I do much prefer the old 3xx 4xx 5xx system myself, from a purely nostalgic perspective.
Quote from: Wumpty on October 26, 2023, 08:21:51 AMOne of the challenges TWM faced with 3-digit system is space on the flip dot/LED blinds. With conventional 4-track roller blinds, they numbers were always the same size regardless.
With flip dot/LED, you're space constrained meaning that the numbers would be squashed to accommodate the destination wording - add that with a 4-digit number, e.g. 501E, then you're even more constrained, and from a distance, harder to read.
Change, like everything else, is always hard to accept at first, though I do much prefer the old 3xx 4xx 5xx system myself, from a purely nostalgic perspective.
Honestly the system worked just fine.
There is too much duplication of numbers across the network and whilst someone is unlike to confuse the Birmingham 4 with a Wolverhampton 4, at one point there was a 46 in Great Barr that was different to the 46 in Perry Barr.
A lot of services are still 3 digit but just have letters instead of numbers.
Quote from: sonic84 on October 26, 2023, 05:46:38 PMHonestly the system worked just fine.
There is too much duplication of numbers across the network and whilst someone is unlike to confuse the Birmingham 4 with a Wolverhampton 4, at one point there was a 46 in Great Barr that was different to the 46 in Perry Barr.
A lot of services are still 3 digit but just have letters instead of numbers.
But very few four digit ones which if you read Wumpty's comment was the big problem
Quote from: sonic84 on October 26, 2023, 05:46:38 PMHonestly the system worked just fine.
There is too much duplication of numbers across the network and whilst someone is unlike to confuse the Birmingham 4 with a Wolverhampton 4, at one point there was a 46 in Great Barr that was different to the 46 in Perry Barr.
A lot of services are still 3 digit but just have letters instead of numbers.
The current system works just fine too.
Duplication of route numbers isn't an issue. The network has been broken down into more local areas, and thus for people in those areas the numbering system is easier to understand.
Interestingly in Wolverhampton there are two different services numbered 9, the Arriva one to Bridgnorth and the NX one to Walsall, yet you never hear about anyone getting confused by the two.
I think everyone got on the correct bus without complaint
Quote from: Tony on October 26, 2023, 06:35:47 PMI think everyone got on the correct bus without complaint
I like it!
Back in 2018 NXWM X20 Birmingham - Cofton Hackett started one week before Johnsons X20 Birmingham - Stratford ceased, and they both called outwards at the same stop in Moor Street Queensway. On my final ride on the Johnsons service there were a few cases of "wrong X20".
Maybe 115 passengers were more observant?
As per my comment elsewhere, divert the Walsall Community Transport 25 up the full length of Goscote Lane & Livingston Road, enabling a closer driver change to the depot, Wolverhampton Road to the Mouse Hill junction, reverse of its existing route of Allens Lane(?), left up Norton Road, up to the traffic lights & turn left onto Vicarage Road & turn right further up that route to rejoin the existing route. (Probably need a extra bus?)
Alternatively, where do most of the Ryders Hayes passengers travel to? Could the 23 be diverted via Ryders Hayes into Pelsall itself then up Highfield Road to rejoin normal route? (The sharp turn by the shops might be a problem?)
(Come to think of it, the 25 would have to pop out of a side street into Highfield Road itself, if it missed out the Pelsall Wood section(Shortlands Lane), which is another dodgy turn ISTR as well!)
Anyone familiar with Pelsall got any ideas?
WN Trident 4 digits 559E.jpgWN Trident 4 digits.jpg
Quote from: Tony on October 26, 2023, 05:52:29 PMBut very few four digit ones which if you read Wumpty's comment was the big problem
On these two photos, this is challenge that TWM (and passengers) faced. On a static photo, they are legible, but imagine them in a crowded street or bus station, dusk and you've a split second to flag it down.
Whilst flip dots and LED blinds offer greater flexibility on updating blinds without costs and lead times waiting for paper blinds to be produced/delivered, the continuity and restrictions on fonts meant that it's a choice of route number or destination.
Quote from: Stu on October 26, 2023, 06:11:50 PMThe current system works just fine too.
Duplication of route numbers isn't an issue. The network has been broken down into more local areas, and thus for people in those areas the numbering system is easier to understand.
Interestingly in Wolverhampton there are two different services numbered 9, the Arriva one to Bridgnorth and the NX one to Walsall, yet you never hear about anyone getting confused by the two.
Quote from: Tony on October 26, 2023, 06:35:47 PMI think everyone got on the correct bus without complaint
Almost certainly some initial confusion, though with all change there's a period of transition - both of the posts from Stu and Tony show that duplicated numbers can live in perfect harmony!
Part of the problem with electronic blinds is when the sun shines directly on the display it can make it impossible to read unless you're really close. Okay if it's the only bus route but not great when a number of routes use the stop. Also the display brightness can fade with age.
If the four digit displays are such a problem why haven't the 9xx services been migrated over to 3-digit maximum numbering? The 937a and 907a are still running, and any three digit service that needs to do a shortened run becomes a four digit service with the addition of the 'e'.
Also the 101, 126, 529 and 530.
Quote from: ellspurs on October 29, 2023, 04:58:11 PMIf the four digit displays are such a problem why haven't the 9xx services been migrated over to 3-digit maximum numbering? The 937a and 907a are still running, and any three digit service that needs to do a shortened run becomes a four digit service with the addition of the 'e'.
Also the 101, 126, 529 and 530.
Some of it depends on the destinations by the side of the four digits.
It actually getting less of a problem again now LEDs are used, but the dot matrix in the photos have a much lower number of characters that can be displayed in one line
Quote from: Tony on October 29, 2023, 05:00:21 PMSome of it depends on the destinations by the side of the four digits.
It actually getting less of a problem again now LEDs are used, but the dot matrix in the photos have a much lower number of characters that can be displayed in one line
IIRC the flip dots were 124 x 16 against the newer LEDs at 144 x 19 - thus a greater flexibility.
Quote from: sonic84 on October 26, 2023, 05:46:38 PMHonestly the system worked just fine.
There is too much duplication of numbers across the network and whilst someone is unlike to confuse the Birmingham 4 with a Wolverhampton 4, at one point there was a 46 in Great Barr that was different to the 46 in Perry Barr.
A lot of services are still 3 digit but just have letters instead of numbers.
the Great Barr 46 and Perry Barr 46 confused me so much as a kid because there's genuinely like a mile between the two routes and there was no correlation between them as well. The PB46 is now 52
Quote from: Tony on October 29, 2023, 05:00:21 PMSome of it depends on the destinations by the side of the four digits.
It actually getting less of a problem again now LEDs are used, but the dot matrix in the photos have a much lower number of characters that can be displayed in one line
Yes, the flip-dot displays have a lower 'resolution' compared to the LED matrix displays, but both still have limitations on what can be 'clearly' displayed to intending passengers.
I don't know if I dreamt this, or if I actually read about it somewhere, but I seem to recall seeing somewhere someone trialling a full TFT/LED destination display on a bus, which offered a crisp high-res display and actually simulated the 'look' of a TFL-style roller blind.
I would guess that as the LED matrix technology evolves and becomes more affordable, the quality and resolution of destination displays will become more advanced.
Quote from: Stu on October 29, 2023, 08:52:30 PMI don't know if I dreamt this, or if I actually read about it somewhere, but I seem to recall seeing somewhere someone trialling a full TFT/LED destination display on a bus, which offered a crisp high-res display and actually simulated the 'look' of a TFL-style roller blind.
I would guess that as the LED matrix technology evolves and becomes more affordable, the quality and resolution of destination displays will become more advanced.
I don't think you dreamt it. I have heard that some London buses do have these high resolution LED displays now, which look incredibly similar to the traditional roller blind displays.
Quote from: Stu on October 29, 2023, 08:52:30 PMYes, the flip-dot displays have a lower 'resolution' compared to the LED matrix displays, but both still have limitations on what can be 'clearly' displayed to intending passengers.
I don't know if I dreamt this, or if I actually read about it somewhere, but I seem to recall seeing somewhere someone trialling a full TFT/LED destination display on a bus, which offered a crisp high-res display and actually simulated the 'look' of a TFL-style roller blind.
I would guess that as the LED matrix technology evolves and becomes more affordable, the quality and resolution of destination displays will become more advanced.
Nearly all new TfL buses have them, Abellio 2447 is the oldest bus with one
https://wmbusphotos.com/NONWM/Abellio/2447.html
Quote from: Wumpty on October 26, 2023, 08:21:51 AMOne of the challenges TWM faced with 3-digit system is space on the flip dot/LED blinds. With conventional 4-track roller blinds, they numbers were always the same size regardless.
With flip dot/LED, you're space constrained meaning that the numbers would be squashed to accommodate the destination wording - add that with a 4-digit number, e.g. 501E, then you're even more constrained, and from a distance, harder to read.
Change, like everything else, is always hard to accept at first, though I do much prefer the old 3xx 4xx 5xx system myself, from a purely nostalgic perspective.
The rear number display on some of either the 45xx or 46xx (cant rember which) had a vinyl strip on either side that obscured 3/4 digit numbers.
Quote from: Wumpty on October 29, 2023, 04:12:51 PMWN Trident 4 digits 559E.jpgWN Trident 4 digits.jpg
On these two photos, this is challenge that TWM (and passengers) faced. On a static photo, they are legible, but imagine them in a crowded street or bus station, dusk and you've a split second to flag it down.
Whilst flip dots and LED blinds offer greater flexibility on updating blinds without costs and lead times waiting for paper blinds to be produced/delivered, the continuity and restrictions on fonts meant that it's a choice of route number or destination.
Almost certainly some initial confusion, though with all change there's a period of transition - both of the posts from Stu and Tony show that duplicated numbers can live in perfect harmony!
Slightly off topic, but what's the difference between a (5)59 Ashmore Park & (5)59E Ashmore Park?
Quote from: Westy on October 29, 2023, 10:27:30 PMSlightly off topic, but what's the difference between a (5)59 Ashmore Park & (5)59E Ashmore Park?
As it serves quite a loop around Ashmore Park I think the E was to show that it finished at the Higgs Road terminus stop and didn't continue via the Griffiths Drive loop.
Quote from: jasmine on October 29, 2023, 08:34:45 PMthe Great Barr 46 and Perry Barr 46 confused me so much as a kid because there's genuinely like a mile between the two routes and there was no correlation between them as well. The PB46 is now 52
Well originally it was the 406 but whoever's bright mind to wreck a good numbering system meant that there was two 46's in a short area of each other.
Quote from: suavegarv on October 29, 2023, 09:58:43 PMThe rear number display on some of either the 45xx or 46xx (cant rember which) had a vinyl strip on either side that obscured 3/4 digit numbers.
This was a body build issue rather than a TWM/NXWM issue - the rear glass fitted (I'm assuming) was for the slightly narrower apertures on London bodies.
Quote from: Mike K on October 30, 2023, 12:19:47 AMAs it serves quite a look around Ashmore Park I think the E was to show that it finished at the Higgs Road terminus stop and didn't continue via the Griffiths Drive loop.
That's correct. It was used when the 59s were late either because of roadworks or congestion. Still used on occasions now.
Quote from: Stu on October 29, 2023, 08:52:30 PMYes, the flip-dot displays have a lower 'resolution' compared to the LED matrix displays, but both still have limitations on what can be 'clearly' displayed to intending passengers.
I don't know if I dreamt this, or if I actually read about it somewhere, but I seem to recall seeing somewhere someone trialling a full TFT/LED destination display on a bus, which offered a crisp high-res display and actually simulated the 'look' of a TFL-style roller blind.
I would guess that as the LED matrix technology evolves and becomes more affordable, the quality and resolution of destination displays will become more advanced.
There are
@Stu :
FOI request detail - Transport for London (tfl.gov.uk) (https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-2074-2021)
Simply, they use high resolution LED technology, similar to a television screen, though the difficulty is that it requires its own tech and software.
Exceptionally high quality mind!
There really should be a free bus that circles the city centre. I went on the one in Leicester and it was lovely.
Additionally, I'd like to see some more university branded buses that can help the X21/X22, especially during peak hours. If a bus does not show up in 10 minutes, it's a bit of a sticky one styll.
Quote from: Ronnoc on November 01, 2023, 08:20:48 PMThere really should be a free bus that circles the city centre. I went on the one in Leicester and it was lovely.
Additionally, I'd like to see some more university branded buses that can help the X21/X22, especially during peak hours. If a bus does not show up in 10 minutes, it's a bit of a sticky one styll.
Who pays? It's been tried see Diamond 77 service, virtually nobody used it.
Not quite sure how branding some more buses helps. Frequency has just been increased on the X21/2
Quote from: Tony on November 01, 2023, 08:34:34 PMWho pays? It's been tried see Diamond 77 service, virtually nobody used it.
Not quite sure how branding some more buses helps. Frequency has just been increased on the X21/2
When was the Diamond 77 service started/stopped? With the city centre changing so quickly, I feel like there might be a greater need for it compared to beforehand. I'd guess maybe TfWM would pay for it, definitely not the council though.
For the university one, I meant increased frequency of buses, and adding university branding to them. However, it's good to see that frequency has increased on the X21/X22, peak-time buses were almost bursting.
Quote from: Ronnoc on November 01, 2023, 08:50:24 PMWhen was the Diamond 77 service started/stopped? With the city centre changing so quickly, I feel like there might be a greater need for it compared to beforehand. I'd guess maybe TfWM would pay for it, definitely not the council though.
You obviously don't realise where TfWM's money comes from. Your council tax!
Quote from: Tony on November 01, 2023, 08:58:56 PMYou obviously don't realise where TfWM's money comes from. Your council tax!
I think the closest we'll probably get to that is what the 16/16A service does connecting Snow Hill, Moor Street, Smallbrook Queensway and The Markets.
As well as the loops the 82/87 and 23/24 do.
At one time the 101 was merged with the 76 which seems the way to go, ie tag a city centre loop on to another service.
Quote from: Tony on November 01, 2023, 08:58:56 PMYou obviously don't realise where TfWM's money comes from. Your council tax!
Whatever the method of funding, I'd like to see it return.
Quote from: Ronnoc on November 01, 2023, 09:55:37 PMWhatever the method of funding, I'd like to see it return.
As long as you don't have to pay
One thing I would definitely do is renumber the 89 to the 50
80 series routes have always been associated in Smethwick with services that serve the City Centre, even bygone services, such as 80A, 81, 83, 88. The 89 has far more in common with the withdrawn 50A/C, 54/54A than any of the 80 series routes
While, yes, I'm aware renumbering requires the changing of bus stop flags and timetables, a lot of the 89 bus stops show "towards Birmingham", there's even one on Hales Lane that says "towards Oldbury", the route hasn't served Oldbury in this decade. Also, the timetables haven't been updated in several bus stops
Secondly, and this is more heart than head, would be to reinstate the link between Cape Hill and Birmingham on the 89, via the 80 route, and renumber it 80A, the 80 frequency could be adjusted to every 10 then 20 minutes Monday to Saturday, and every 20 and 40 on Sunday - with the "80A" being every half an hour (hourly on Sundays), again, more of a desire than anything else
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 05, 2023, 06:19:34 PMWhile, yes, I'm aware renumbering requires the changing of bus stop flags and timetables, a lot of the 89 bus stops show "towards Birmingham", there's even one on Hales Lane that says "towards Oldbury", the route hasn't served Oldbury in this decade. Also, the timetables haven't been updated in several bus stops
The 'towards' info is generally a stop database 'thing' which often gets overlooked when routes change.
There are bus stops used by the 5 (Birmingham to Solihull) on Court Road and Showell Green Lane in Sparkhill which still show 'towards Yardley Wood' on them, which are a 'hangover' from the time when the 2 served them.
Quote from: Stu on November 05, 2023, 06:31:50 PMThe 'towards' info is generally a stop database 'thing' which often gets overlooked when routes change.
There are bus stops used by the 5 (Birmingham to Solihull) on Court Road and Showell Green Lane in Sparkhill which still show 'towards Yardley Wood' on them, which are a 'hangover' from the time when the 2 served them.
If that's the case, you think it would be easier for the bus numbers on the flags be stickers than can be attached/detached as required
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 06, 2023, 12:15:09 PMIf that's the case, you think it would be easier for the bus numbers on the flags be stickers than can be attached/detached as required
Unfortunately that would likely make the flags messy as the stickers would peel off due to weather attrition. Ideally every stop should have an electronic display.
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 06, 2023, 12:15:09 PMIf that's the case, you think it would be easier for the bus numbers on the flags be stickers than can be attached/detached as required
You can ask Oxforshire County Council about how much easier it is for stickers. They haven't properly updated their flags since some of the university services got renumbered, and when Diamond withdrew from the 250 in February. It's replacement service, 24, still isn't on the flags on the Banbury Road whereas the 250 persists. The stickers used on the flags don't always match either so you have a massive X3 sat next to a timid 100 (which is covering up a U1 sticker).
Quote from: Rachvince53 on November 06, 2023, 12:54:59 PMUnfortunately that would likely make the flags messy as the stickers would peel off due to weather attrition. Ideally every stop should have an electronic display.
I fully agree with this. Feels like a waste to have to remake them, screw out the old one, fit the new one etc.
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 06, 2023, 01:14:10 PMI fully agree with this. Feels like a waste to have to remake them, screw out the old one, fit the new one etc.
They don't do that though. Its just a piece of self-adhesive printed vinyl. All that happens is they peel off the old vinyl before applying the new one, or if the old one won't come off then they stick the new one over it.
If I could bring back any route it would be the 962 Birmingham to Chelmsley Wood via the Collector Road, never understood why it was withdrawn many people want a fast link to brum. All the others routes get delayed in traffic making the journey twice as long as it should be. If I remember the buses where always well used with many people waiting especially for the 962.
Quote from: woody38 on November 06, 2023, 09:51:41 PMIf I could bring back any route it would be the 962 Birmingham to Chelmsley Wood via the Collector Road, never understood why it was withdrawn many people want a fast link to brum. All the others routes get delayed in traffic making the journey twice as long as it should be. If I remember the buses were always well used with many people waiting especially for the 962.
The X12 is a decently fast service from Chelmsley to Birmingham, the original route was anyway, until it was changed to serve Chelmsley Road and Cooks Lane putting on an extra 10 minutes, but out of all the services I'd say it's the fastest, 97 second.
Cv2/2a (outbound only to cannon park/ west wood business pk) to go down sir Henry park road then turn right onto the fletchamstead highway then onto charter ave then do the former 19 route to cannon park (inbound) normal line of route
Quote from: woody38 on November 06, 2023, 09:51:41 PMIf I could bring back any route it would be the 962 Birmingham to Chelmsley Wood via the Collector Road, never understood why it was withdrawn many people want a fast link to brum. All the others routes get delayed in traffic making the journey twice as long as it should be. If I remember the buses where always well used with many people waiting especially for the 962.
The roadworks on the m6 and a38/a452 meant it spent most of its time sat in traffic. In the morning there used to be an up-to-30 minute wait sitting at the bottom of the Collector Road to get onto the m6 j5 roundabout. Now they've increased the capacity there and most of the time the m6 is open it would be a lot more viable, but we have the x12 now to replace it.
Quote from: Jack on November 06, 2023, 09:58:26 PMThe X12 is a decently fast service from Chelmsley to Birmingham, the original route was anyway, until it was changed to serve Chelmsley Road and Cooks Lane putting on an extra 10 minutes, but out of all the services I'd say it's the fastest, 97 second.
I'd say if you get a clear run through Bordesley Green the 97 is faster than the X12. X12 can be hit and miss depending on traffic levels at Bromford. But both routes have bad reliability so I normally just get the first one that arrives.
Quote from: GoldenSquid on November 07, 2023, 09:20:14 PMI'd say if you get a clear run through Bordesley Green the 97 is faster than the X12. X12 can be hit and miss depending on traffic levels at Bromford. But both routes have bad reliability so I normally just get the first one that arrives.
14 is generally the quickest
Quote from: Tony on November 07, 2023, 09:38:08 PM14 is generally the quickest
I'm yet to give the 14 ago since it's came back to BC. (thinking about, I last did it when it was going down Aston Church Road)
Quote from: GoldenSquid on November 07, 2023, 09:51:31 PMI'm yet to give the 14 ago since it's came back to BC. (thinking about, I last did it when it was going down Aston Church Road)
When I caught it yesterday my bus left the City on time and was stuck in Alum Rock because of bad parking and ended up 20 mins late when I got off at Tile Cross.
I'd create an X80 or 81 Which goes from West Bromwich to Birmingham Via Smethwick, Grove Lane, Rotton Park Road and Hagley Road. It would give an express route to west bromwich which I'm shocked it doesn't yet have, and provide a service for the people of rotton park road instead of them needing to walk 15 minutes either way to catch an 80 or a 12,12a,12,13a, attached is a visual
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1087472695408599152/1174525359673315438/TravelBoast_2023-11-16_01-42-29.mp4?ex=6567e8fb&is=655573fb&hm=ec0723d1c6a803930a6264fb8f30978ff4c5e80e3dd0014db7617f5477d50ad2&
Quote from: jasmine on November 16, 2023, 02:21:43 AMI'd create an X80 or 81 Which goes from West Bromwich to Birmingham Via Smethwick, Grove Lane, Rotton Park Road and Hagley Road. It would give an express route to west bromwich which I'm shocked it doesn't yet have, and provide a service for the people of rotton park road instead of them needing to walk 15 minutes either way to catch an 80 or a 12,12a,12,13a, attached is a visual
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1087472695408599152/1174525359673315438/TravelBoast_2023-11-16_01-42-29.mp4?ex=6567e8fb&is=655573fb&hm=ec0723d1c6a803930a6264fb8f30978ff4c5e80e3dd0014db7617f5477d50ad2&
West Bromwich has had an express route before, but it became unviable when the Metro opened.
NXWM 34/37/39 I use these sometimes but a few years ago you had the 38 between Wednesbury and Walsall Via the Manor, the first bus to Walsall was always the 38 at 04:30 I assume for the Nurses and other staff at the Manor the next one I think was at 05:30 with a 34 at 05:45 the 39 ran to Wolverhampton. I'm not sure out of the 34/38/39 which was one was the last bus from Walsall currently the last bus from Walsall Is the 23:05 37 to Darlaston with the 34 being the last bus to Walsall due into Darlaston around the same time as the 37 terminates. Now the 39 serves the Manor but it's first bus is at 6/7 and the last one to Bilston is at 6/7ish and to Walsall about quarter past 7. There is nothing serving the Manor after 7 and nothing at all on Sundays.
So what I would do is keep the 39 as it is but change the timetable after the evening so you get a twenty minute combined service between Walsall and Darlaston with the 39 running until Midnight or 1AM and being the first bus to Walsall just to give the Manor Hospital a link for staff in the early hours. I wouldn't fancy walking through Pleck at night. On a Sunday I would again keep them every 20 minutes with the 39 serving the Manor. I don't understand why the Sunday Service was withdraw is the 39 partially tendered or is it fully commercial. I think the 37 is partly tendered, because had Thandi not gone bust NX wouldn't be Operating it all day and why there isn't a late night service if not the 39 maybe extend the 37 of an evening to serve the Manor or have the 37 link to the Manor I know at some point Sandwell Travel proposed to run the 333 via the Manor to link Lodge Farm with the Manor. Although I guess now they can take the 41 and then get the 36 to the Manor. But I would either keep the 39 after 7PM or extend the 37 of an evening and Sunday to serve the Manor Hospital. And potentially have a service from Darlaston to Walsall via the old 38 route and then following the 11 as far as the Brown Lion before following the 39 to the Manor so the 39 could possibly interwork with it and the Darlaston Road has a link to The Manor especially now all the Newbuilds are built on the old Servis site
Doesn't the 36 serve Manor on the evenings? I'd put that back to Bradford Place made a lot more sense there.
They never seem to make their minds up with that it's always been moved from the bus station to BP
Quote from: Jack on November 29, 2023, 02:32:45 PMDoesn't the 36 serve Manor on the evenings?
This was one of the TFWM tenders scrapped at the start of the year, due to very low usage.
TFWM say to catch the 529 from Wolverhampton Road in the evenings.
Quote from: 2206 on November 29, 2023, 02:36:38 PMThis was one of the TFWM tenders scrapped at the start of the year, due to very low usage.
TFWM say to catch the 529 from Wolverhampton Road in the evenings.
Which is great and all if you live in Bentley and Willenhall, but if you live in Moxley, Darlaston or Wednesbury you have nothing to get you to the Manor the 37 is every hour to Willenhall and you could connect with the 529 there so you have nothing serving the Darlaston Wednesbury area to the Manor after 8PM or on Sundays. Even an extension of the 37 to The Manor as the 34 has never served it could work as a lot of the folks in Moxley or Herberts Park could get the 79 to Darlaston or Wednesbury if one ran that way to connect to the 37 or a Wednesbury bus via the Manor
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on November 29, 2023, 02:58:58 PMWhich is great and all if you live in Bentley and Willenhall, but if you live in Moxley, Darlaston or Wednesbury you have nothing to get you to the Manor the 37 is every hour to Willenhall and you could connect with the 529 there so you have nothing serving the Darlaston Wednesbury area to the Manor after 8PM or on Sundays. Even an extension of the 37 to The Manor as the 34 has never served it could work as a lot of the folks in Moxley or Herberts Park could get the 79 to Darlaston or Wednesbury if one ran that way to connect to the 37 or a Wednesbury bus via the Manor
You could say the same about Beechdale, Bloxwich or any other without a direct link. The fact is it was withdrawn due to extremely low usage
Quote from: Tony on November 29, 2023, 04:17:42 PMYou could say the same about Beechdale, Bloxwich or any other without a direct link. The fact is it was withdrawn due to extremely low usage
True didn't Bloxwhich used to have a direct service to the Manor years ago. Is low usage why the 39 stopped running after 7 as it used to run fairly late but stopped running after 7 after it was rerouted to replace the 38 maybe the 37 introduction initially played a part and then with NX Operating the evening service did the 39 evening services sort of become not needed. Although I did never understand why The 37 ran of an Evening before NX entered there was a never a bus that ran through Darlaston and Bentley after 6 and Lodge Farm had the 40 and 41. Sad to hear there is no demand I remember the 38 always letting of a lot people outside the Manor
Wasn't the bus from Bloxwich basically the one interworking with the old 351?
I havent studied the 34/37/39 corridor timetable for sometime, but doesnt the 39 serve the Manor Hospital as well?
Surprised there's no way of rerouting the 39 further into Alumwell, to serve that missing section?
(In fact didnt the old 639 do this?)
QuoteWasn't the bus from Bloxwich basically the one interworking with the old 351?
I havent studied the 34/37/39 corridor timetable for sometime, but doesnt the 39 serve the Manor Hospital as well?
Surprised there's no way of rerouting the 39 further into Alumwell, to serve that missing section?
(In fact didnt the old 639 do this?)
Yep, the 639 did. And yes, the 350 (former 999) was joined with the 351
Quote from: Westy on November 29, 2023, 04:58:02 PMWasn't the bus from Bloxwich basically the one interworking with the old 351?
I havent studied the 34/37/39 corridor timetable for sometime, but doesnt the 39 serve the Manor Hospital as well?
Surprised there's no way of rerouting the 39 further into Alumwell, to serve that missing section?
(In fact didnt the old 639 do this?)doe
39 does serve the Manor as replacement for the old 38 which was replaced to the Manor by the 39 and down Darlaston Road by the 75 for all of two weeks. The 39 also replaced the 34 into Stowlawn but the Manor Hospital isn't served after 7PM and not on Sundays not sure what time the last 38 was but it ran eairler than the 39 I was told to take Nurses and Workers to the Manor as there was then an hour gap between I think the 38 at half four in the morning and the first of the 34 and 39 buses. There is also gaps around Darlaston on the 39 service the 39 goes down Wolverhampton Street onto Stafford Road before going into Darlaston, there are still bus stops around Herberts Park along Hewitt Street, Wiley Aveune and Park Lane by the Junction Pub. The 30 I think used to go down last year and the 639 years before that, possibly the 339 at one point but now nothing serves it.
For me, i would introduce a new bus service from six ways aston - bearwood, following the old 61 (when it went to bearwood) and 68A/C bus routes, it would serve the following roads.
Victoria Road, Vicarage Road, Sycamore Road, Witton Lane, Witton Road, The Broadway, Davey Road, Aston Lane, Perry Barr One Stop, Wellington Road, Grosevnor Road, Westminster Road, Putney Road, Hutton Road, Church Vale, Church Hill Road, Hamstead Road, Holly Road, Grove Lane, Dawson Road, Limwood Road, Albert Road, Rockery Road, Holyhead Road, Crockets Road, Booth Street, Rabone Lane, B4136, Soho Way, Windmill Lane, Cape Hill, Waterloo Road, Bearwood Road, Anderson Road, Herbert Road & Bearwood Interchange
Quote from: SuperSonic07 on December 13, 2023, 07:27:46 PMFor me, i would introduce a new bus service from six ways aston - bearwood, following the old 61 (when it went to bearwood) and 68A/C bus routes, it would serve the following roads.
Victoria Road, Vicarage Road, Sycamore Road, Witton Lane, Witton Road, The Broadway, Davey Road, Aston Lane, Perry Barr One Stop, Wellington Road, Grosevnor Road, Westminster Road, Putney Road, Hutton Road, Church Vale, Church Hill Road, Hamstead Road, Holly Road, Grove Lane, Dawson Road, Limwood Road, Albert Road, Rockery Road, Holyhead Road, Crockets Road, Booth Street, Rabone Lane, B4136, Soho Way, Windmill Lane, Cape Hill, Waterloo Road, Bearwood Road, Anderson Road, Herbert Road & Bearwood Interchange
Are you trying to re-introduce the old 123?
No way would that work now!
Since the council have gonna gone on a bulldozer rage on car parks to build more apartments I'd ban cars from coming into the city centre and make a shuttle service from just outsider the borders of the a4540 and make it every 10 mins or so, this could be an alternative to the tram which is always rammed
Make a new X1a service which is a super fast route from birmingham to coventry that bypasses all the stops as if it were a coach.
Run it every 20 minutes at the 10 minutes that the X1 doesnt run e.g
X1, 11:10
X1a, 11:20
X1, 11:30
and so on.
This would also help with the problem of having standees every journey pretty much.
Run the X1a from BC and have them share running the X1/X1a
Quote from: TheMidlandsTrident on December 27, 2023, 06:33:43 PMMake a new X1a service which is a super fast route from birmingham to coventry that bypasses all the stops as if it were a coach.
Run it every 20 minutes at the 10 minutes that the X1 doesnt run e.g
X1, 11:10
X1a, 11:20
X1, 11:30
and so on.
This would also help with the problem of having standees every journey pretty much.
Run the X1a from BC and have them share running the X1/X1a
I suggested that before lol
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on December 27, 2023, 09:49:58 PMI suggested that before lol
Quote from: TheMidlandsTrident on December 27, 2023, 06:33:43 PMMake a new X1a service which is a super fast route from birmingham to coventry that bypasses all the stops as if it were a coach.
Run it every 20 minutes at the 10 minutes that the X1 doesnt run e.g
X1, 11:10
X1a, 11:20
X1, 11:30
and so on.
This would also help with the problem of having standees every journey pretty much.
Run the X1a from BC and have them share running the X1/X1a
As all services in Coventry have to be electric and BC has no, and won't be getting any charging facilities I think you can rule that out
Quote from: TheMidlandsTrident on December 27, 2023, 06:33:43 PMMake a new X1a service which is a super fast route from birmingham to coventry that bypasses all the stops as if it were a coach.
Run it every 20 minutes at the 10 minutes that the X1 doesnt run e.g
X1, 11:10
X1a, 11:20
X1, 11:30
and so on.
This would also help with the problem of having standees every journey pretty much.
I can understand this, but would a non-stop service would it meet its costs? If the fare cap didn't exist, £2.70 for 20 miles would be a bargain.
My guess is that improving the X1 frequency is a more viable option for NXWM. The X1 has alot of intermediate traffic which I expect makes a big difference to the bottom line.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on December 27, 2023, 10:28:53 PMI can understand this, but would a non-stop service would it meet its costs? If the fare cap didn't exist, £2.70 for 20 miles would be a bargain.
My guess is that improving the X1 frequency is a more viable option for NXWM. The X1 has alot of intermediate traffic which I expect makes a big difference to the bottom line.
This makes more sense, for instance the X1 picks up good loads at the airport
Quote from: TheMidlandsTrident on December 27, 2023, 06:33:43 PMMake a new X1a service which is a super fast route from birmingham to coventry that bypasses all the stops as if it were a coach.
Run it every 20 minutes at the 10 minutes that the X1 doesnt run e.g
This would also help with the problem of having standees every journey pretty much.
You'd have no standees because there'd be hardly any passengers.
QuoteI suggested that before lol
My bad lol, im relatively new to this forum.
QuoteAs all services in Coventry have to be electric and BC has no, and won't be getting any charging facilities I think you can rule that out
For now, run it with diesel double deckers (which is allowed as stagecoach X18 along with others). Then see, if it is viable buy it electrics, if not get rid of the route.
QuoteI can understand this, but would a non-stop service would it meet its costs? If the fare cap didn't exist, £2.70 for 20 miles would be a bargain.
My guess is that improving the X1 frequency is a more viable option for NXWM. The X1 has alot of intermediate traffic which I expect makes a big difference to the bottom line.
Well im not that local to coventry (stratford upon avon) but when there was no fare cap wasn't it a bargain anyways. I dont know if the x1 had different pricing to the other routes so correct me if im wrong, but £2.70 was the price anyways.
Improving the frequency and making it every 10 minutes would be good, but do CV have enough double deckers for that?
I ride the x1 around once or twice a week, since september so these are just my thoughts. I always do the full run from coventry to birmingham and while some people do get off at BHX (15 at a guess) id say most people do the full run cov to bham.
Quote from: TheMidlandsTrident on December 28, 2023, 08:47:25 AMFor now, run it with diesel double deckers (which is allowed as stagecoach X18 along with others). Then see, if it is viable buy it electrics, if not get rid of the route.
The X1 itself isn't a money spinner, en express one would lose a fortune, very few people actually want to go from Birmingham to Coventry or vice versa, and those that do use the train (20 minutes) as opposed to nearly an hour an express bus would take
QuoteYou'd have no standees because there'd be hardly any passengers.
I doubt you'd have hardly any passengers. I bet from experience you could probably fill a 12m single decker (45 seater or so), if not a 10.3 meter platinum. Every time i go on the x1 it is packed and seriously needs more frequency.
QuoteThe X1 itself isn't a money spinner, en express one would lose a fortune, very few people actually want to go from Birmingham to Coventry or vice versa, and those that do use the train (20 minutes) as opposed to nearly an hour an express bus would take
But a lot of people are people who work in --lower paid-- jobs and just want the cheapest way home. In peak times £2 compared to £5.40 is a fair difference. In non peak £2 compared to £2.70 is not that big of a difference.
Quote from: TheMidlandsTrident on December 28, 2023, 08:51:28 AMI ride the x1 around once or twice a week, since september so these are just my thoughts. I always do the full run from coventry to birmingham and while some people do get off at BHX (15 at a guess) id say most people do the full run cov to bham.
I don't know where you get that impression from. When the bus leaves Birmingham full nearly everyone gets off before the Airport. It is an excellent 'commuter bus' from Sheldon & Yardley which is where most of its passengers come from, at the Coventry end it is the main bus for Holyhead Road people, but from personal experience of driving it going through Meriden passengers on board are quite sparse.
QuoteI don't know where you get that impression from. When the bus leaves Birmingham full nearly everyone gets off before the Airport. It is an excellent 'commuter bus' from Sheldon & Yardley which is where most of its passengers come from, at the Coventry end it is the main bus for Holyhead Road people, but from personal experience of driving it going through Meriden passengers on board are quite sparse.
I generally ride the 13:25 departure, idk if you have ever driven that.
Every time i am onboard the bus is packed until pool meadow.
I suppose my impression is likely quite limited as i only ride one journey.
I will agree to an extent that the X1 needs a better frequency, I myself am sick of getting on or fighting to get rammed Deckers with rude drivers. Much preferred BC on the X1.
I'm not sure why they ever took off the Brum to Airport shorts they was very much useful, the Brum to Airport section needs a frequency increase as does a lot of the routes in the West Mids but yet nothing has been done about that.
I'd like to see Diamond or NX run a express from Birmingham to Wolverhampton.
Quote from: Tony on December 28, 2023, 08:56:04 AMI don't know where you get that impression from. When the bus leaves Birmingham full nearly everyone gets off before the Airport. It is an excellent 'commuter bus' from Sheldon & Yardley which is where most of its passengers come from, at the Coventry end it is the main bus for Holyhead Road people, but from personal experience of driving it going through Meriden passengers on board are quite sparse.
The first journey from Birmingham to Coventry that reached Meriden at 0930 used to fill up very quickly in Meriden when I was using it to commute.
Quote from: ellspurs on December 28, 2023, 09:39:40 AMThe first journey from Birmingham to Coventry that reached Meriden at 0930 used to fill up very quickly in Meriden when I was using it to commute.
Yes, but as you say from Meriden, not people passing through
Quote from: Jay71 on December 28, 2023, 09:26:23 AMI'd like to see Diamond or NX run a express from Birmingham to Wolverhampton.
Why? Again it would take close on an hour against 20 minutes on the train or 40 on the tram.
It amazes me how many people on this thread just suggest services that have already been tried & failed (979)
Just out of curiosity, was the option of splitting the X1 at the Airport ever considered? Two routes, Cov-Airport and Airport-Birmingham?
Quote from: MasterPlan on December 28, 2023, 10:08:08 AMJust out of curiosity, was the option of splitting the X1 at the Airport ever considered? Two routes, Cov-Airport and Airport-Birmingham?
What benefit would that have? wouldn't gain any extra passengers but would lose passengers that do pass through the airport, Meriden to Birmingham for example.
Express Birmingham to Coventry was another suggestion log lost to being unviable. The X6 Coventry to Leicester is a left over of the X66 Birmingham to Leicester route, see link Timetable Search: Service x66 (midlandred.net) (https://www.midlandred.net/service/timetable/search.php?service=x66&operator=all&sortby=service)
To give you an example of why it wouldn't work now at the current fares, the average take per passenger in the West Midlands is around £1.20 it costs around £50 per hour to run a bus, so every journey would need 40 passengers just to get to break even point. To make it viable you would be charging fares similar to what the trains charge, and then the train becomes even more attractive.
Quote from: Tony on December 28, 2023, 09:57:50 AMIt amazes me how many people on this thread just suggest services that have already been tried & failed (979)
That's the fun of the thread I guess.
I would really love to see just a small indication of which NX routes are profitable/unprofitable (and by what margin). I know there's the high frequency routes that would obviously be the most profitable (50, 74, etc). However, it would be interesting to see some form of statistics.
Quote from: Ronnoc on December 28, 2023, 10:41:00 AMThat's the fun of the thread I guess.
I would really love to see just a small indication of which NX routes are profitable/unprofitable (and by what margin). I know there's the high frequency routes that would obviously be the most profitable (50, 74, etc). However, it would be interesting to see some form of statistics.
Well for obvious reasons you never will unless you get a job at NX or TfWM
The train fare between Birmingham and Coventry is listed at £5.50 one way, £9 return for travel today on the West Midlands Railway website with a journey time of 20-25 minutes. Offpeak return is £6.90.
The coach fare between Birmingham and Coventry is listed at £5.20 one way, no return ticket for travel today, with a journey length of 50-55 minutes.
We all know the bus pricing and times.
The bus isn't viable for long distance journeys, as Tony has mentioned above. People just need to choose the method of transport that works for them best.
That's a shame, would've been quite interesting though.
Quote from: Jay71 on December 28, 2023, 09:26:23 AMI'd like to see Diamond or NX run a express from Birmingham to Wolverhampton.
There is a reason that doesn't exist as Tony mentioned the Tram and Train, the Avanti services are Express. Depending on your route it wouldn't be viable as the X8 covers the old 126 route to a degree and the 79 could never compete again sadly. The only area the 79 could is Moxley and Darlaston but most people get the bus to Walsall or Wednesbury and get the Tram, Train and or X51. Sadly Wolverhampton to Birmingham is well covered. And with the Trams now having the issues fixed there isn't scope to try and tempt them away
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on December 28, 2023, 10:54:39 AMThere is a reason that doesn't exist as Tony mentioned the Tram and Train, the Avanti services are Express. Depending on your route it wouldn't be viable as the X8 covers the old 126 route to a degree and the 79 could never compete again sadly. The only area the 79 could is Moxley and Darlaston but most people get the bus to Walsall or Wednesbury and get the Tram, Train and or X51. Sadly Wolverhampton to Birmingham is well covered. And with the Trams now having the issues fixed there isn't scope to try and tempt them away
You mentioned issues with the trams being fixed. I think that the service is vert unreliable. It wasn't this bad when the service ran every 6/7 mins. But since it got reduced to every ten mins the service has gone downhill faster than a rollercoaster. Don't get me started on the overcrowding. They're constantly having issues with the screens at stops ie 'the next tram will arrive in one min'. Four or five mins later the tram that was due in one min still hasn't arrived.
Quote from: Jay71 on December 28, 2023, 12:30:17 PMYou mentioned issues with the trams being fixed. I think that the service is vert unreliable. It wasn't this bad when the service ran every 6/7 mins. But since it got reduced to every ten mins the service has gone downhill faster than a rollercoaster. Don't get me started on the overcrowding. They're constantly having issues with the screens at stops ie 'the next tram will arrive in one min'. Four or five mins later the tram that was due in one min still hasn't arrived.
It is probably down to Driver Shortages, In terms of Wolverhampton to Birmingham it is still quicker than any Express Bus or the 79 could ever be and I want the 79 to go back to Brum but I realise it isn't viable.
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on December 28, 2023, 03:28:18 PMIt is probably down to Driver Shortages, In terms of Wolverhampton to Birmingham it is still quicker than any Express Bus or the 79 could ever be and I want the 79 to go back to Brum but I realise it isn't viable.
According to the conductors its all down to penny pinching. They have no intentions of bringing back the 6/7 min frequency.
Quote from: TheMidlandsTrident on December 28, 2023, 08:53:19 AMI doubt you'd have hardly any passengers. I bet from experience you could probably fill a 12m single decker (45 seater or so), if not a 10.3 meter platinum. Every time i go on the x1 it is packed and seriously needs more frequency.
Yes, the X1 gets packed but very few people do the full run to Coventry, not enough to fill a single decker running every 20 minutes.
I've travelled a fair few times myself on the X1, and from my own experiences and observations, it is busiest between Birmingham city centre and Sheldon.
Maybe a peak-time frequency increase for the X2 would help instead?
Quote from: Stu on December 28, 2023, 06:59:07 PMYes, the X1 gets packed but very few people do the full run to Coventry, not enough to fill a single decker running every 20 minutes.
I've travelled a fair few times myself on the X1, and from my own experiences and observations, it is busiest between Birmingham city centre and Sheldon.
Maybe a peak-time frequency increase for the X2 would help instead?
I agree about increasing the X2 in peaks, if an extra X2 was placed 5 minutes before an X1 at the busiest times then the pressure for passengers going beyond Sheldon on an X1 would be reduced
Quote from: Steve3229vp on December 28, 2023, 07:23:18 PMI agree about increasing the X2 in peaks, if an extra X2 was placed 5 minutes before an X1 at the busiest times then the pressure for passengers going beyond Sheldon on an X1 would be reduced
Wonder if a X2a to Cranes Park would work? Like the previously proposed 960 to Cranes Park back when the East Birmingham consultation happened?
In my opinion it'd make sense for X1 shorts (City-Airport) to come back over peak times.
What doesn't help is that the seating capacity on electrics is 8 seats less than a platinum bus, so that's 24 seats less an hour, up to 32 in peaks.
I would add a service say, X67 for numbers sake. Have it run on the Aston expressway and come down Tyburn road same as the X12/3. Have it run till holly lane and follow the 96 to the fort parkway. Then the 67 till manby road. Take a left then right onto Kingsbury road then terminate at Asda min worth.
Bring back the 68A/C circular, under a new service number that isn't in use. Maybe 69A/C
Quote from: JosephR on April 02, 2024, 09:11:55 PMBring back the 68A/C circular, under a new service number that isn't in use. Maybe 69A/C
Isn't most of the route covered by the 96, 71, 64 today? What new links would that create?
Quote from: 2206 on April 02, 2024, 09:34:00 PMWhat new links would that create that the 96, 71, 64 don't serve today?
Lots. Who wants to change onto 3 or more buses. Simplify them all with some rerouting re evaluation then maybe some services won't be needed.
Quote from: JosephR on April 02, 2024, 09:44:54 PMLots. Who wants to change onto 3 or more buses. Simplify them all with some rerouting re evaluation then maybe some services won't be needed.
Because everyone who used the 68 travelled all the way round the whole circle on it? And got off exactly where they started?
Which journey is this where you need to travel on 3 or more buses?
Quote from: 2206 on April 02, 2024, 09:46:08 PMBecause everyone who used the 68 travelled all the way round the whole circle on it? And got off exactly where they started?
Which journey is this where you need to travel on 3 or more buses?
The 68A/C was well used and many links have been lost. Remember it was withdrawn as the running times where unachievable but adding an extra bus each way would of made the route unprofitable.
I would extend the PN 7 into Wollaston Farm. Would give greatly needed links to Norton and Lye, its very common for Wollaston Farm people to walk into Wollaston village to get the 7 to these places, or change in Stourbridge from the 8. It would also reduce the standing time the 7 has at the roundabout in the village, even though I believe drivers aren't actually supposed to do their time there, they do, and it blocks the 8 and 242 from accessing the main stop in Wollaston.
Whoevers 'good' idea it was to invent the X8 was wrong. The 126 is more direct. There is only one service to Wolverhampton and it takes a very indirect route. I would bring back the 140 to Blackheath and send the 13A to Dudley. Only because the Hagley road already has a good frequency. So the 140 wouldn't need to be so regular.
Quote from: JosephR on April 03, 2024, 01:51:56 AMWhoevers 'good' idea it was to invent the X8 was wrong. The 126 is more direct. There is only one service to Wolverhampton and it takes a very indirect route. I would bring back the 140 to Blackheath and send the 13A to Dudley. Only because the Hagley road already has a good frequency. So the 140 wouldn't need to be so regular.
There's probably not much difference in it between the X8 and 126. Minutes if that.
Who exactly do these proposed changes benefit. Taking away a direct service from Rowley Regis, if there wasn't demand for an every 20 minute direct service from Rowley to Quinton and onto Birmingham NX probably wouldn't run it.
If you want a fast service to Wolverhampton thats what the train and the metro do.
Quote from: 2206 on April 03, 2024, 02:45:00 AMThere's probably not much difference in it between the X8 and 126. Minutes if that.
Who exactly do these proposed changes benefit. Taking away a direct service from Rowley Regis, if there wasn't demand for an every 20 minute direct service from Rowley to Quinton and onto Birmingham NX probably wouldn't run it.
If you want a fast service to Wolverhampton thats what the train and the metro do.
When the Tram is running that is, but yes the only reason the 79 is probably still run is to link Darlaston and areas not on the tram route to West Bromwich or Wolverhampton and to provide a cheaper method for the people of Moxley, Bilston and Wednesbury who don't want to get the Tram or can't walk to the Tram to get to the shops in Bilston or Wednesbury or Asda Darlaston or get to Wesr Bromwich or Wolverhampton where they could connect to Birmingham on the Tram.
Quote from: 2206 on April 03, 2024, 02:45:00 AMThere's probably not much difference in it between the X8 and 126. Minutes if that.
Who exactly do these proposed changes benefit. Taking away a direct service from Rowley Regis, if there wasn't demand for an every 20 minute direct service from Rowley to Quinton and onto Birmingham NX probably wouldn't run it.
If you want a fast service to Wolverhampton thats what the train and the metro do.
The tram, the 126 and X8 take completely different routes. All this change would do is leave long lane with a lesser frequency.
Bring back the 116 Tamworth to Birmingham.
Quote from: JosephR on April 13, 2024, 05:44:50 PMBring back the 116 Tamworth to Birmingham.
The 110 exists and does the same journey Tamworth to Birmingham
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on April 13, 2024, 06:50:21 PMThe 110 exists and does the same journey Tamworth to Birmingham
No it doesn't, the 116 was a completely different:
110 via Fazeley, Whitehouse Common, Sutton Coldfield and Erdington
116 via Kingsbury, Curdworth and Minworth
Having got to know the Stourbridge network quite well in recent years, I'd make changes to the tendered routes running from there, particularly the 17, 25 and 57.
The 25 seems to carry fresh air on the Stourbridge and Wollaston section so I'd get rid of that service altogether (seems to run a crazy 30 min frequency too which is far too high on that section).
I'd replace it by re-routing the 17 along the 25 route from Stourbridge via Wollaston back to the a491 at Audnam (there's no need for the 17 to run direct along that section of a491 from Stourbridge as it is served by the pretty regular commercial services 6 and 16).
I would then also send the 17 along the current 25 route by turning right up Bretell Lane and current route off that up to Swan Lane. However instead of then continuing the 25 to Dudley, run via Swan Lane and the 226 route to get back onto the a491 to serve Wordsley. The 226 can cover the 25 route over most of those lost sections up to Brierley Hill and Merry Hill.
I'd also get rid of the 57 which also rarely sees high passenger numbers. Most of the route up to Wall Heath and Kingswinford is covered by the 16 and doesn't need replication against a commercial route. The missing bits of the 57 through estate roads aren't a million miles away from other routes either.
The missing bit in Wall Heath of the 57 could just have a further bit tagged onto the 'new' 17 so again the 17 doesn't just replicate the 16 route.
This would obviously lengthen the 17 route but ultimately provides what tendered services should, services where commercial operation isn't feasible. It would also save substantial money for the local authority too as getting rid of the 25 and 57 would save money (even if some sort of replacement on demand type-service, over any substantial missing section, was needed).
Quote from: Steve3229vp on April 13, 2024, 06:55:57 PMNo it doesn't, the 116 was a completely different:
110 via Fazeley, Whitehouse Common, Sutton Coldfield and Erdington
116 via Kingsbury, Curdworth and Minworth
I said same journey not Route as I don't know both routes anyway I'm saying there was already a route between Tamworth and Birmingham the 110
Quote from: JosephR on April 13, 2024, 05:44:50 PMBring back the 116 Tamworth to Birmingham.
the 116 barely carried anyone between birmingham to minworth from what i remember of it tbh, and then kingsbury now has a 30 min service to tamworth on the 76 which is where i presume most passengers would've used it.
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on April 13, 2024, 09:27:17 PMI said same journey not Route as I don't know both routes anyway I'm saying there was already a route between Tamworth and Birmingham the 110
It's nothing like the same journey.
It's like saying the 4 and X12 in Birmingham are the same journey
QuoteHaving got to know the Stourbridge network quite well in recent years, I'd make changes to the tendered routes running from there, particularly the 17, 25 and 57.
The 25 seems to carry fresh air on the Stourbridge and Wollaston section so I'd get rid of that service altogether (seems to run a crazy 30 min frequency too which is far too high on that section).
I'd replace it by re-routing the 17 along the 25 route from Stourbridge via Wollaston back to the a491 at Audnam (there's no need for the 17 to run direct along that section of a491 from Stourbridge as it is served by the pretty regular commercial services 6 and 16).
I would then also send the 17 along the current 25 route by turning right up Bretell Lane and current route off that up to Swan Lane. However instead of then continuing the 25 to Dudley, run via Swan Lane and the 226 route to get back onto the a491 to serve Wordsley. The 226 can cover the 25 route over most of those lost sections up to Brierley Hill and Merry Hill.
I'd also get rid of the 57 which also rarely sees high passenger numbers. Most of the route up to Wall Heath and Kingswinford is covered by the 16 and doesn't need replication against a commercial route. The missing bits of the 57 through estate roads aren't a million miles away from other routes either.
The missing bit in Wall Heath of the 57 could just have a further bit tagged onto the 'new' 17 so again the 17 doesn't just replicate the 16 route.
This would obviously lengthen the 17 route but ultimately provides what tendered services should, services where commercial operation isn't feasible. It would also save substantial money for the local authority too as getting rid of the 25 and 57 would save money (even if some sort of replacement on demand type-service, over any substantial missing section, was needed).
The 25 is paid for by TfWM... but it's a BSIP funded route, like the 142. Plus the 57 covers some parts that the 15, 16 and 17 don't cover, with the 25 having been in existence in some form since Hansons started the 250/251 in 2006. The 17 dates back to the 257 of the late 90s, which ran, at one stage, through to Kinver, believe it or not, and then got replaced by the 287, before coming back after a reorganisation of the Dudley-Gornal routes iirc
Funnily enough, the 25's Lodge Farm to Dudley end also is linked to the 257's history... as the 257 replaced the 285, which at one stage ran Sedgley to Merry Hill via Stickley and Dudley... the Gornal - Stickley - Dudley section that the 257 took over in the 90s (the 283 and 282 were the 285's sister services). The 287, which the 257 replaced, also ironically, ran via Standhills Road (which the Diamond 57 touches) and had a sister service which also ran (at one stage) once a day... via Stickley!
Now that birchfield road services are now going under new town row (lancaster circus), it got me thinking. The Aston expressway services AKA Sutton lines should carry on into city centre over st chads Queensway, to snow hill Queensway, and old square's current 16 stop. Then right down to bottom of corporation st for uni stop. The Sutton lines have felt very out of place on priory Queensway to me.
Quote from: JosephR on May 28, 2024, 11:26:04 PMNow that birchfield road services are now going under new town row (lancaster circus), it got me thinking. The Aston expressway services AKA Sutton lines should carry on into city centre over st chads Queensway, to snow hill Queensway, and old square's current 16 stop. Then right down to bottom of corporation st for uni stop. The Sutton lines have felt very out of place on priory Queensway to me.
Then you're moving the Sutton services away from 2 very well used stops. I'm certain they have always stopped at those 2 stops entering the City for years now.
Quote from: Jack on May 29, 2024, 03:15:59 AMThen you're moving the Sutton services away from 2 very well used stops. I'm certain they have always stopped at those 2 stops entering the City for years now.
Buses are forever being moved from stops in the city centre. I think there needs to be a bit more variety travelling through/to/ from Birmingham. Connections with the 'other side of Birmingham' services. Mind the route wouldn't loose its connection with the uni. You'd simply have to cross the road at the bottom of corporation st. Which can't be more than 40yards.
Reroute Stratford road services to begin outside of station st... Dudley st, upperdean st loop etc. a more space for buses to terminate on hill/station st. There's a lot of stops in the city centre that could be utilised. Too many services terminating at the same stops. Causing obstructions.
Quote from: JosephR on June 19, 2024, 12:45:36 AMReroute Stratford road services to begin outside of station st... Dudley st, upperdean st loop etc. a more space for buses to terminate on hill/station st. There's a lot of stops in the city centre that could be utilised. Too many services terminating at the same stops. Causing obstructions.
yes because i also don't see the reason and seemingly obsessive need for the 2, 3, 4, 4a, 5, 6, 17, 35, 50, 60, 97, X1, X2, X21 and X22 to all terminate on Moor St
Quote from: jasmine on June 19, 2024, 12:19:18 PMyes because i also don't see the reason and seemingly obsessive need for the 2, 3, 4, 4a, 5, 6, 17, 35, 50, 60, 97, X1, X2, X21 and X22 to all terminate on Moor St
The 97 doesn't terminate on Moor Street, that's Carrs Lane.
The Stratford Road stop is a joke, people were moaning about it on Facebook about it being too overused.
If Corporation Street never closed to traffic in 2012 we would never have these constant issues and constant moving of buses in the City!
Quote from: jasmine on June 19, 2024, 12:19:18 PMyes because i also don't see the reason and seemingly obsessive need for the 2, 3, 4, 4a, 5, 6, 17, 35, 50, 60, 97, X1, X2, X21 and X22 to all terminate on Moor St
Because there's no other stops available in the city centre
Quote from: jasmine on June 19, 2024, 12:19:18 PMyes because i also don't see the reason and seemingly obsessive need for the 2, 3, 4, 4a, 5, 6, 17, 35, 50, 60, 97, X1, X2, X21 and X22 to all terminate on Moor St
The X21/X22 terminus is another joke too, the buses can't ever pull in straight because of the roadworks, so the back end of the bus is usually creeping into the lane, then if there's more than 1 bus it blocks up part of the road.
Now the Digbeth roadworks have completed it would make more sense for the relief changes on the BC services to go back to Digbeth as opposed to the City Centre, purely because that's another hold up and buses being dumped on the side Moor Street wouldn't be left causing it harder for other buses to pull in.
Quote from: Jack on June 19, 2024, 12:27:03 PMThe 97 doesn't terminate on Moor Street, that's Carrs Lane.
The Stratford Road stop is a joke, people were moaning about it on Facebook about it being too overused.
If Corporation Street never closed to traffic in 2012 we would never have these constant issues and constant moving of buses in the City!
Quote from: Jack on June 19, 2024, 12:27:03 PMThe 97 doesn't terminate on Moor Street, that's Carrs Lane.
The Stratford Road stop is a joke, people were moaning about it on Facebook about it being too overused.
If Corporation Street never closed to traffic in 2012 we would never have these constant issues and constant moving of buses in the City!
"The 97 doesn't terminate on Moor Street, that's Carrs Lane."without the roadworks, yes it does
Quote from: jasmine on June 19, 2024, 01:55:17 PM"The 97 doesn't terminate on Moor Street, that's Carrs Lane."
without the roadworks, yes it does
The 97 is in Carrs Lane, not Moor Street.
Being pedantic, the only services that actually terminate on Moor Street are the 35, 50 and X1, X2, 17 & 60.
Quote from: jasmine on June 19, 2024, 01:55:17 PM"The 97 doesn't terminate on Moor Street, that's Carrs Lane."
without the roadworks, yes it does
Quote from: jasmine on June 19, 2024, 01:55:17 PM"The 97 doesn't terminate on Moor Street, that's Carrs Lane."
without the roadworks, yes it does
i dont know why this was super sized text i didnt mean that
Quote from: Tony on June 19, 2024, 01:59:13 PMThe 97 is in Carrs Lane, not Moor Street.
Being pedantic, the only services that actually terminate on Moor Street are the 35, 50 and X1, X2, 17 & 60.
Quote from: Jack on June 19, 2024, 12:31:35 PMThe X21/X22 terminus is another joke too, the buses can't ever pull in straight because of the roadworks, so the back end of the bus is usually creeping into the lane, then if there's more than 1 bus it blocks up part of the road.
It's not great. I've witnessed on a couple of occasions 3 buses there which was even worse.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 19, 2024, 02:12:26 PMIt's not great. I've witnessed on a couple of occasions 3 buses there which was even worse.
I don't get why they don't do what the 61/63 do. They served the bottom of Masshouse which was short lasted, they can't make their minds up. Same with shoving all the 93* with the 997 and X51 making that stop overused when there's a perfectly empty shelter now just past it that they used to serve...
I can't remember how long these roadworks are on for, but the Stratford Road services could do with a timetable change out of city during the evening peak.
Not because they're being delayed and held up, in fact the opposite!
When catching either the 2 or 3 to home in the evening, they regularly arrive at the Auckland Road stop about five minutes early. I think its also the case for the others, as there's often several buses parked up by Aldi having to wait time.
This evening's journey is quite typical now:
https://bustimes.org/services/2-birmingham-maypole-via-warstock/vehicles#journeys/594293672
I recall the timetables were adjusted during the Digbeth roadworks, which have now mainly finished, so a combination of reduced congestion, plus a shorter journey distance as a result of being able to smoothly u-turn on Moor Street Queensway, means it now takes less time to get from there onto the Stratford Road through Sparkbrook.
Quote from: Jack on June 19, 2024, 12:27:03 PMThe 97 doesn't terminate on Moor Street, that's Carrs Lane.
The Stratford Road stop is a joke, people were moaning about it on Facebook about it being too overused.
If Corporation Street never closed to traffic in 2012 we would never have these constant issues and constant moving of buses in the City!
Amazing isn't it, how buses can travel down broad st. Lower bull st. Over a variety of track in the Black Country. But can't continue down corporation st...
I do not necessarily mean there should be bus stops on corporation st, but it would certainly help to have them on places like navigation st. Hill st. Etc. too congested in the east side imo.
Quote from: JosephR on June 19, 2024, 10:52:52 PMAmazing isn't it, how buses can travel down broad st. Lower bull st. Over a variety of track in the Black Country. But can't continue down corporation st...
I do not necessarily mean there should be bus stops on corporation st, but it would certainly help to have them on places like navigation st. Hill st. Etc. too congested in the east side imo.
Its a valid point, would help congestion at bus stops round Moor Street queensway and priory queensway
Quote from: Lukeee on June 20, 2024, 07:52:34 PMIts a valid point, would help congestion at bus stops round Moor Street queensway and priory queensway
Aswell as cut journey time travelling to/from/around the city centre while providing more links.
For example the 87 could go down corp st to colmore row (loop) and the 24 could do the opposite, through smallbrook Queensway then corporation st (loop)
Quote from: JosephR on June 20, 2024, 11:42:05 PMAswell as cut journey time travelling to/from/around the city centre while providing more links.
For example the 87 could go down corp st to colmore row (loop) and the 24 could do the opposite, through smallbrook Queensway then corporation st (loop)
How are you going to go down Corporation Street to Colmore Row ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 21, 2024, 07:52:55 AMHow are you going to go down Corporation Street to Colmore Row ?
Lyon Queensway, swallow st, hill st, navigation st, or just hill st and navigation st.
Reroute the X15, to replace the X4 with a reduced frequency, and increase X14 frequency.
From erdington high st; Edward's rd, orphanage road, *current X15 route until Springfield rd while serving Asda* then carry on up till falcon lodge via crescent to end the route in Sutton.
Reroute the Diamond 64 via Gospel End and Wombourne before returning direct along Penn Road which would restore links lost due to Staffs CC cutbacks.
Withdraw 16 to Hamstead and make all NXWM 16 journeys terminate at Scott Arms and keep the Diamond 16A as it is
Quote from: jasmine on June 29, 2024, 01:31:15 PMWithdraw 16 to Hamstead and make all NXWM 16 journeys terminate at Scott Arms and keep the Diamond 16A as it is
And make the Scott Arms terminus more busy than what it is...
Having lots of 16's there as well as the 28's would cause even more chaos than the mess it is already with them. Also there isn't a demand for the extension to be more frequent than every 20 minutes, plus the 16 gets snarled in enough traffic, having all of them get through Scott Arms would wreck the reliability completely.
Quote from: Jack on June 29, 2024, 01:43:16 PMAnd make the Scott Arms terminus more busy than what it is...
Having lots of 16's there as well as the 28's would cause even more chaos than the mess it is already with them. Also there isn't a demand for the extension to be more frequent than every 20 minutes, plus the 16 gets snarled in enough traffic, having all of them get through Scott Arms would wreck the reliability completely.
Personally I would rather them send the 16 that serves Scott arms straight up the old walsall road, this would save journeys getting held up at the scott arms traffic lights
Quote from: Lukeee on June 30, 2024, 07:13:01 PMPersonally I would rather them send the 16 that serves Scott arms straight up the old walsall road, this would save journeys getting held up at the scott arms traffic lights
I'd renumber it if they did that to the 16B to save confusion having 2 16's doing different routes at Hamstead as well as having the 16A.
Or bring back the 46, should never of took that route off in the first place.
Quote from: Jack on June 30, 2024, 07:57:23 PMI'd renumber it if they did that to the 16B to save confusion having 2 16's doing different routes at Hamstead as well as having the 16A.
Or bring back the 46, should never of took that route off in the first place.
instead of 16B renumber 16A back to 16W
Quote from: Jack on June 29, 2024, 01:43:16 PMAnd make the Scott Arms terminus more busy than what it is...
Having lots of 16's there as well as the 28's would cause even more chaos than the mess it is already with them. Also there isn't a demand for the extension to be more frequent than every 20 minutes, plus the 16 gets snarled in enough traffic, having all of them get through Scott Arms would wreck the reliability completely.
politely, read this
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1242937202850140302/1257053620487061534/image.png?ex=668301ea&is=6681b06a&hm=093a0671a4daf4e9258199f968e48e8c51e91a85ded29ba704dea875fd859ca0&=&format=webp&quality=lossless
Quote from: Jack on June 29, 2024, 01:43:16 PMAnd make the Scott Arms terminus more busy than what it is...
Having lots of 16's there as well as the 28's would cause even more chaos than the mess it is already with them. Also there isn't a demand for the extension to be more frequent than every 20 minutes, plus the 16 gets snarled in enough traffic, having all of them get through Scott Arms would wreck the reliability completely.
im also only suggesting this because i need the 16 to great barr as the 16 to hamstead does not pass where i get off, and this board is for fun. its just annoying to get one that goes to hamstead and then needing to walk up the rest of hamstead road because for some reason theres 4 16's that go to hamstead following eachother and 0 great barr ones.
Quote from: jasmine on June 30, 2024, 08:29:32 PMim also only suggesting this because i need the 16 to great barr as the 16 to hamstead does not pass where i get off, and this board is for fun. its just annoying to get one that goes to hamstead and then needing to walk up the rest of hamstead road because for some reason theres 4 16's that go to hamstead following eachother and 0 great barr ones.
I politely told you it wouldn't be viable.
There's 3 Great Barr 16's an hour, and if that doesn't turn up there's also the 61. The loads from Scott Arms don't justify having more buses serving it.
Quote from: Jack on June 30, 2024, 09:23:12 PMI politely told you it wouldn't be viable.
There's 3 Great Barr 16's an hour, and if that doesn't turn up there's also the 61. The loads from Scott Arms don't justify having more buses serving it.
Viability, nor if the route generates or takes away profit is not something that should be taken into consideration when replying to this board.
Quote from: jasmine on June 30, 2024, 10:13:17 PMViability, nor if the route generates or takes away profit is not something that should be taken into consideration when replying to this board.
Not only this but it just stops the 16 from being bloody annoying, I had to stop a woman with kids from chasing a 16 that had its rear blind off because she was shouting asking if it was a Great Barr and it wasn't. The whole problem of the 16 being a freaking gacha game since January 2023 wouldn't be a thing if it just stuck to one terminus.
It's not like I'm asking for the world here either, it's not like I'm asking for all X51's to terminate in Cannock is it? It's literally just a mile or so down the road, that's it.
If the traffic or whatever is so bad at Scott Arms the 16 should just continue on Newton Road to Queslett then like the old 46 did.
If the 46 was never withdrawn people here would never be inconvenienced. The 16/16A arrangement isn't the best, replacing a reliable service with 2 other services that are prone to late running isn't good. The 16A doesn't always bother turning up at West Brom because of how much traffic it gets stuck in.
ok..?
Renumber X3 to X2 (many duplicated route numbers anyway)
Renumber X5 to X3
Curtail X4 to Sutton Coldfield only
This will match X route numbers with original 102/103/104
Add X5 to Falcon Lodge (existing X4) reduced to 2bph
Add X6 to Mere Green or Hillhook via Good Hope/Whitehouse Common/Roughly terminus to give customers on Rectory Rd/Whitehouse Common access to Mere Green shops and give customers of Hillhook/Mere Green/Roughley access to Good Hope Hospital
And passengers wishing to travel to Lichfield who can't or don't want to use the train are supposed to do what?
Quote from: Rachvince53 on July 01, 2024, 05:29:45 PMAnd passengers wishing to travel to Lichfield who can't or don't want to use the train are supposed to do what?
Continue to use the X3 or renumbered X2
Quote from: jamesX4 on July 01, 2024, 03:45:40 PMRenumber X3 to X2 (many duplicated route numbers anyway)
Renumber X5 to X3
Curtail X4 to Sutton Coldfield only
This will match X route numbers with original 102/103/104
Add X5 to Falcon Lodge (existing X4) reduced to 2bph
Add X6 to Mere Green or Hillhook via Good Hope/Whitehouse Common/Roughly terminus to give customers on Rectory Rd/Whitehouse Common access to Mere Green shops and give customers of Hillhook/Mere Green/Roughley access to Good Hope Hospital
Many duplicated numbers but none of them go to the same place lol
Quote from: jasmine on July 01, 2024, 06:02:43 PMMany duplicated numbers but none of them go to the same place lol
There used to be a NX 115 Sutton Coldfield to Birmingham and an Arriva 115 Tamworth to Birmingham. Both terminating on Upper Bull Street. A picture of both was posted on here some years ago.
Quote from: jamesX4 on July 01, 2024, 03:45:40 PMRenumber X3 to X2 (many duplicated route numbers anyway)
Renumber X5 to X3
Curtail X4 to Sutton Coldfield only
This will match X route numbers with original 102/103/104
Add X5 to Falcon Lodge (existing X4) reduced to 2bph
Add X6 to Mere Green or Hillhook via Good Hope/Whitehouse Common/Roughly terminus to give customers on Rectory Rd/Whitehouse Common access to Mere Green shops and give customers of Hillhook/Mere Green/Roughley access to Good Hope Hospital
Whitehouse Common, Rectory Road and Good Hope customers already have access to Mere Green through the 78A service vice versa.
Quote from: ghy2035 on July 01, 2024, 06:33:39 PMWhitehouse Common, Rectory Road and Good Hope customers already have access to Mere Green through the 78A service vice versa.
Yes, just 4 services a day. Falcon Lodge has the X14, so does that infer that the X4 should be cut back to Sutton.
Quote from: jamesX4 on July 01, 2024, 06:46:22 PMYes, just 4 services a day. Falcon Lodge has the X14, so does that infer that the X4 should be cut back to Sutton.
They take different routes for a start.
X14 Rectory Road, X4 Reddicap Heath.
Quote from: jamesX4 on July 01, 2024, 03:45:40 PMRenumber X3 to X2 (many duplicated route numbers anyway)
Renumber X5 to X3
Curtail X4 to Sutton Coldfield only
This will match X route numbers with original 102/103/104
Add X5 to Falcon Lodge (existing X4) reduced to 2bph
Add X6 to Mere Green or Hillhook via Good Hope/Whitehouse Common/Roughly terminus to give customers on Rectory Rd/Whitehouse Common access to Mere Green shops and give customers of Hillhook/Mere Green/Roughley access to Good Hope Hospital
Sorry but that just sounds like pointless renumbering to me, and probably would confuse a fair few people!
For consistency with the Sutton Lines services, Arriva's 110 service could be renumbered as X6 though - it's interesting how TfWM have left both X6 and X11 free!
Quote from: jamesX4 on July 01, 2024, 06:20:09 PMThere used to be a NX 115 Sutton Coldfield to Birmingham and an Arriva 115 Tamworth to Birmingham. Both terminating on Upper Bull Street. A picture of both was posted on here some years ago.
different operators.
Quote from: Stu on July 01, 2024, 08:14:57 PMSorry but that just sounds like pointless renumbering to me, and probably would confuse a fair few people!
For consistency with the Sutton Lines services, Arriva's 110 service could be renumbered as X6 though - it's interesting how TfWM have left both X6 and X11 free!
Isn't most renumbering pointless?
To integrate the 110 (potential future X6) into the Sutton Lines timetable to create a regular 5 minute service between Birmingham & Sutton would also help with consistency.
Quote from: Stu on July 01, 2024, 08:14:57 PMSorry but that just sounds like pointless renumbering to me, and probably would confuse a fair few people!
For consistency with the Sutton Lines services, Arriva's 110 service could be renumbered as X6 though - it's interesting how TfWM have left both X6 and X11 free!
Could renumber the 907 to X7 as well.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 02, 2024, 10:54:39 AMCould renumber the 907 to X7 as well.
Yes, it's bizarre that every NX Sutton to Birmingham route number was changed to X_ except for the 107/907.
Quote from: jamesX4 on July 02, 2024, 01:48:41 PMYes, it's bizarre that every NX Sutton to Birmingham route number was changed to X_ except for the 107/907.
Maybe because the 907 isn't an express service... it's limited stop and the 9** is for limited stop services. The X3's etc have more of an express feel using the Expressway whereas the 907 serves stops inbetween Perry Barr and the City, so has less of an express feel just limited stops, whereas the X51 is non-stop until the City
More pointless renumbering, don't mess with something that already works fine. Having two X2's in the City Centre by the same operator is bound to cause loads of unnecessary confusion.
Quote from: Jack on July 02, 2024, 02:29:44 PMMaybe because the 907 isn't an express service... it's limited stop and the 9** is for limited stop services. The X3's etc have more of an express feel using the Expressway whereas the 907 serves stops inbetween Perry Barr and the City, so has less of an express feel just limited stops, whereas the X51 is non-stop until the City
More pointless renumbering, don't mess with something that already works fine. Having two X2's in the City Centre by the same operator is bound to cause loads of unnecessary confusion.
i was going to say this, thank you
Quote from: Jack on July 02, 2024, 02:29:44 PMMaybe because the 907 isn't an express service... it's limited stop and the 9** is for limited stop services. The X3's etc have more of an express feel using the Expressway whereas the 907 serves stops inbetween Perry Barr and the City, so has less of an express feel just limited stops, whereas the X51 is non-stop until the City
More pointless renumbering, don't mess with something that already works fine. Having two X2's in the City Centre by the same operator is bound to cause loads of unnecessary confusion.
So the X8, X10, X21, X22 & X64 are "Express" services as opposed to "Limited Stop" services?
The Solihull X2 departs from the opposite side of the city centre to the Sutton routes, so no reason to cause confusion. It is more confusing to have short running services not suffixed with an E.
Regarding the Solihull Services, it takes far too long to get from Birmingham to Solihull by bus, the 4 (formerly 37) could do with having some "express" services from Digbeth Coach station to Acocks Green. Another X4!
The X2 doesn't terminate the other side of the City at all, it's an 8 minute walk along one road. It's not like ones on Moor Street and the other at Colmore Row.
It doesn't take long at all on the bus, the 4 and X2 take similar amount of time. The X2 has loads of bus priority along the route. How are you trying to get an express bus along Stratford and Warwick Road when the current services get stuck in that traffic, and you can't just flyover it.
A lot of passengers in AG if they want to be in town within 15 minutes catch the train which is very popular.
Quote from: jamesX4 on July 02, 2024, 03:36:11 PMSo the X8, X10, X21, X22 & X64 are "Express" services as opposed to "Limited Stop" services?
Fair point, and the X21 and X22 are neither express nor limited stop for that matter. There isn't any consistency with the 900 series of numbered or the X prefix routes. The preference now for anything limited stop or express is an 'X' route but there remain 9xx series routes that have never been renumbered.
I do agree though that there is nothing to be gained from remembering for the sake of it.
Quote from: Jack on July 02, 2024, 03:56:02 PMThe X2 doesn't terminate the other side of the City at all, it's an 8 minute walk along one road. It's not like ones on Moor Street and the other at Colmore Row.
It doesn't take long at all on the bus, the 4 and X2 take similar amount of time. The X2 has loads of bus priority along the route. How are you trying to get an express bus along Stratford and Warwick Road when the current services get stuck in that traffic, and you can't just flyover it.
A lot of passengers in AG if they want to be in town within 15 minutes catch the train which is very popular.
OK, having looked at a map the stops are closer than I implied. I always alight on Priory and board on Corporation St.
I agree with you that it is not feasible to travel from Solihull & Acocks Green to Birmingham by bus due to the slow journey times, and train is more practical. However when Solihull and Sutton Coldfield are both almost the same distance from Birmingham, and it is almost half an hour on X3/X4/X5 to travel between Birmingham & Sutton, where as it is almost an hour on the X2/4 to travel between Birmingham & Solihull then if anything can be done to reduce journey times and increase patronage, this can only benefit both the operator and the passenger.
Quote from: Mike K on July 02, 2024, 04:49:46 PMFair point, and the X21 and X22 are neither express nor limited stop for that matter. There isn't any consistency with the 900 series of numbered or the X prefix routes. The preference now for anything limited stop or express is an 'X' route but there remain 9xx series routes that have never been renumbered.
I do agree though that there is nothing to be gained from remembering for the sake of it.
When is renumbering not done for the sake of it though? I thought the idea at one stage was a 'simplified network', but there are still anomalies.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 02, 2024, 10:54:39 AMCould renumber the 907 to X7 as well.
X7 wouldn't fit, if your looking to renumber the 907 the try X41 and here's why:
934-937 to become X34-X37
937A to become X38
997 to become X39 (X40 buses to Deers Leap)
907 to become X40
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 02, 2024, 07:06:05 PMX7 wouldn't fit, if your looking to renumber the 907 the try X41 and here's why:
934-937 to become X34-X37
937A to become X38
997 to become X39 (X40 buses to Deers Leap)
907 to become X40
More unnecessary and pointless renumbering, the numbering system for those work fine and do a good job.
Quote from: Jack on July 02, 2024, 07:12:33 PMMore unnecessary and pointless renumbering, the numbering system for those work fine and do a good job.
I agree, I was just pointing out that renumbering the 907 to X7 didn't make any sense
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 02, 2024, 07:06:05 PMX7 wouldn't fit, if your looking to renumber the 907 the try X41 and here's why:
934-937 to become X34-X37
937A to become X38
997 to become X39 (X40 buses to Deers Leap)
907 to become X40
997 -> X31
907 -> X32
33 -> 33
Proposed 'Express 33' -> X33934 -> X34
935-> X35
936 -> X36
937 -> X37
937A -> X38
Quote from: jasmine on July 02, 2024, 07:23:28 PM997 -> X31
907 -> X32
33 -> 33
Proposed 'Express 33' -> X33
934 -> X34
935-> X35
936 -> X36
937 -> X37
937A -> X38
Express 33? The 934 does that job between Pheasey and the City.
Quote from: Jack on July 02, 2024, 07:31:20 PMExpress 33? The 934 does that job between Pheasey and the City.
i know i only really said that cause 33 feels a little out of place lol
QuoteFair point, and the X21 and X22 are neither express nor limited stop for that matter. There isn't any consistency with the 900 series of numbered or the X prefix routes. The preference now for anything limited stop or express is an 'X' route but there remain 9xx series routes that have never been renumbered.
I do agree though that there is nothing to be gained from remembering for the sake of it.
No, but like the former X96 was the direct Stourbridge > Merry Hill > Dudley route, the X21 X22 are the direct services between Uni and City. Hence, I think, they remain "X" routes...
Quote from: the trainbasher on July 02, 2024, 07:36:33 PMNo, but like the former X96 was the direct Stourbridge > Merry Hill > Dudley route, the X21 X22 are the direct services between Uni and City. Hence, I think, they remain "X" routes...
the only thing making X21/X22 limited stop from Uni and City is that they miss one (1) stop on Bath Row, and while we're at it I think these should be renumbered to 21 and 22, and that this should've happened with the withdrawal of the X20
Quote from: jasmine on July 02, 2024, 07:37:59 PMthe only thing making X21/X22 limited stop from Uni and City is that they miss one (1) stop on Bath Row, and while we're at it I think these should be renumbered to 21 and 22, and that this should've happened with the withdrawal of the X20
There are already 21 and 22 close by operated by Diamond Bus:
21 Bearwood-Oldbury via Londonderry
22 Bearwood-Oldbury via Langley
If it wasn't for the above routes then X21/X22 would have been renumbered 21/22 by now.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 02, 2024, 07:50:51 PMThere are already 21 and 22 close by operated by Diamond Bus:
21 Bearwood-Oldbury via Londonderry
22 Bearwood-Oldbury via Langley
If it wasn't for the above routes then X21/X22 would have been renumbered 21/22 by now.
this is entirely untrue and NX do not care about this, first of all they're not even close and second of all we've had an even more egregious example of this from the same operator.
PB 46(52) and WB46 literally terminated
on the same road so.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 02, 2024, 07:50:51 PMThere are already 21 and 22 close by operated by Diamond Bus:
21 Bearwood-Oldbury via Londonderry
22 Bearwood-Oldbury via Langley
If it wasn't for the above routes then X21/X22 would have been renumbered 21/22 by now.
Why would that have any impact? The Diamond routes don't go anywhere near the current X21/X22 routes.
Quote from: jamesX4 on July 02, 2024, 05:44:39 PMHowever when Solihull and Sutton Coldfield are both almost the same distance from Birmingham, and it is almost half an hour on X3/X4/X5 to travel between Birmingham & Sutton, where as it is almost an hour on the X2/4 to travel between Birmingham & Solihull then if anything can be done to reduce journey times and increase patronage, this can only benefit both the operator and the passenger.
The reason why the X3/X4/X5 are quick between Birmingham and Sutton is, of course, the Aston Expressway. There is no equivalent on the Solihull side - only the A45 comes anywhere near.
The Aston Expressway came at a great cost to the suburb of Aston. There was talk in the 1970s of a possible expressway to bypass Kings Heath and Moseley, but of course that didn't happen - and anything similar would be politically unacceptable now.
If we going to talk about oddities the 126 is pretty unique in being the only Hangley road route not renumbered, it could potentially use the number 26 as I don't believe the number is used in Birmingham or Dudley.
With regards to the 907 becoming X7, does it not overlap with the current nbr 7, where as we as enthusiasts would know the difference not sure Margeret doing her shopping on a Saturday morning would, I know the X7 was used previously as the express 87 that continued to Wolverhampton so could be feasible.
Quote from: danny on July 03, 2024, 11:58:55 AMIf we going to talk about oddities the 126 is pretty unique in being the only Hangley road route not renumbered, it could potentially use the number 26 as I don't believe the number is used in Birmingham or Dudley.
With regards to the 907 becoming X7, does it not overlap with the current nbr 7, where as we as enthusiasts would know the difference not sure Margeret doing her shopping on a Saturday morning would, I know the X7 was used previously as the express 87 that continued to Wolverhampton so could be feasible.
The initial proposal at the time of the changes to Hagley Road services which saw most routes renumbered, was that the 126 would become route 15, which would fit alongside X8/9/X10/12/13 etc. That never materialised. Not sure why, there's already a 15 within the Dudley area (W'ton - Merry Hill) but that's not stopped the same number being used in the past (e.g. the PB and WB 46 routes both serving similar areas).
Quote from: jasmine on July 02, 2024, 08:18:29 PMthis is entirely untrue and NX do not care about this, first of all they're not even close and second of all we've had an even more egregious example of this from the same operator.
PB 46(52) and WB46 literally terminated on the same road so.
Also there are two routes numbered 9 in Wolverhampton, Arriva 9 to Bridgnorth (ex890) and the more recent NX 9 to Walsall (ex89).
Quote from: Mike K on July 03, 2024, 02:15:48 PMThe initial proposal at the time of the changes to Hagley Road services which saw most routes renumbered, was that the 126 would become route 15, which would fit alongside X8/9/X10/12/13 etc. That never materialised. Not sure why, there's already a 15 within the Dudley area (W'ton - Merry Hill) but that's not stopped the same number being used in the past (e.g. the PB and WB 46 routes both serving similar areas).
They could make the 126 a Limited Stop between Birmingham and Wolverhampton Road/Hagley Road West and renumbered X11, so the the Hagley Road buses could then run as X8, 9, X10, X11, 12, 12A, 13 and 13A
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 03, 2024, 07:28:48 PMThey could make the 126 a Limited Stop between Birmingham and Wolverhampton Road/Hagley Road West and renumbered X11, so the the Hagley Road buses could then run as X8, 9, X10, X11, 12, 12A, 13 and 13A
The problem then would be that leaves only the 9 as the 'all-stops' service along that stretch of route from the Ivy Bush to Wolverhampton Road.
Quote from: danny on July 03, 2024, 11:58:55 AMIf we going to talk about oddities the 126 is pretty unique in being the only Hangley road route not renumbered, it could potentially use the number 26 as I don't believe the number is used in Birmingham or Dudley.
With regards to the 907 becoming X7, does it not overlap with the current nbr 7, where as we as enthusiasts would know the difference not sure Margeret doing her shopping on a Saturday morning would, I know the X7 was used previously as the express 87 that continued to Wolverhampton so could be feasible.
At one point NXWM also operated the 10, 10S and X10 with both the X10 and 10 running from Birmingham Colmore Row but being very different routes.
Quote from: sonic84 on July 04, 2024, 04:54:06 PMAt one point NXWM also operated the 10, 10S and X10 with both the X10 and 10 running from Birmingham Colmore Row but being very different routes.
With different route numbers. :rolleyes:
Honestly, I don't know anyone in 'real life' who gets confused by the 2 to Maypole and the X2 to Solihull etc, so I don't know why people here seem to think that it is confusing for people.
Quote from: Stu on July 04, 2024, 05:15:17 PMWith different route numbers. :rolleyes:
Honestly, I don't know anyone in 'real life' who gets confused by the 2 to Maypole and the X2 to Solihull etc, so I don't know why people here seem to think that it is confusing for people.
Because given that common sense isnt so common and X sometimes means express version of another route (51/X51, 8/X8) You can forgive people for thinking it was the same for 2 and X2, 3 and X3, 4 and X4, 5 and X5, 12 and X12, 13 and X13, 14 and X14
Quote from: jasmine on July 04, 2024, 05:33:35 PMBecause given that common sense isnt so common and X sometimes means express version of another route (51/X51, 8/X8) You can forgive people for thinking it was the same for 2 and X2, 3 and X3, 4 and X4, 5 and X5, 12 and X12, 13 and X13, 14 and X14
But it doesn't happen though, that's my point.
The same as you never hear about people getting confused by the A2, A4, A5, A6 and A12 in Solihull, thinking they are the X2, 4, 5, 6 or X12.
fairs
The 8/X8 only share a small part of common route (Wolves-Dudley) so including that with the 51/X51 is misleading as they share much more of the same route (Walsall - Bham)
Quote from: Rachvince53 on July 04, 2024, 07:40:52 PMThe 8/X8 only share a small part of common route (Wolves-Dudley) so including that with the 51/X51 is misleading as they share much more of the same route (Walsall - Bham)
Yes, in both those examples, they may share some commonality but they are still different routes.
stupid stupid dumb route i made connecting a bunch of schools in sandwell and birmingham following bits of the old 424, 16, 61, 54/54A and 101
The route connects:
- Q3 Acadamy
- Grove Vale Primary School
- Hamstead Junior School
- Ferndale Primary School
- St Marks Catholic School
- Hamstead Hall Academy
- Grestone Academy
- St John Wall Catholic School
Via:
- Grove Vale
- Newton
- Gorse Farm
- Dyas
- Hamstead Village
- Handsworth Wood
- Handsworth
I number it the 58 because the average of the aforementioned still existing route numbers is 58 (16+54+61+101)/4=58
unsure on the thresholds operators allow for double deckers to go under a bridge but the bridge on Spouthouse Ln is 4.4 meters tall
route video (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1242937202850140302/1260230850922938460/8mb.video-8jG-UnMEvzrX.mp4?ex=668e90f0&is=668d3f70&hm=ffa8af2bd1646bfcc8c8e7fc1f880f9763bf10f23a0b7ccc329a74ca30a80fcf&)
Deckers wouldn't be able to get under Spouthouse Lane.
I (as like most others round here) aren't happy about the 424 going and leaving estates with a very long walk to the nearest bus service especially for elderly people. Grove Vale and Longleat are the worst. A lot of Great Barr is steep so not sure how they are expecting OAP's to hike up Monksfield Avenue and Whitecrest etc. It's a shame the 61 couldn't have taken over a loop of the area similiar to the 424.
From Scott Arms turn right up to Sundial Avenue, along Hollywood and then onto the Whitecrest and serve main thoroughfare where a lot of passengers (elderly including my own family) used this service. Then onto Abbotsford Avenue, and back onto the A34 and u-turn itself back up to Wilderness Lane and serve Longleat and Grove Vale Primary School then back onto Newton Road to Scott Arms.
To leave such a big gap between bus services and also a service which was a lifeline for a lot of elderly people here is shocking with no replacement.
The main passenger usage on the 424 during its last few years was the Whitecrest, Q3 & Grove Vale section. I assume whoever's idea was to do that was the same person who thought replacing the 46 with the 16 and 16A which are dreadful, but that's another topic of discussion...
Quote from: jasmine on July 09, 2024, 02:55:06 PMstupid stupid dumb route i made connecting a bunch of schools in sandwell and birmingham following bits of the old 424, 16, 61, 54/54A and 101
The route connects:
- Q3 Acadamy
- Grove Vale Primary School
- Hamstead Junior School
- Ferndale Primary School
- St Marks Catholic School
- Hamstead Hall Academy
- Grestone Academy
- St John Wall Catholic School
Via:
- Grove Vale
- Newton
- Gorse Farm
- Dyas
- Hamstead Village
- Handsworth Wood
- Handsworth
I number it the 58 because the average of the aforementioned still existing route numbers is 58 (16+54+61+101)/4=58
unsure on the thresholds operators allow for double deckers to go under a bridge but the bridge on Spouthouse Ln is 4.4 meters tall
route video (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1242937202850140302/1260230850922938460/8mb.video-8jG-UnMEvzrX.mp4?ex=668e90f0&is=668d3f70&hm=ffa8af2bd1646bfcc8c8e7fc1f880f9763bf10f23a0b7ccc329a74ca30a80fcf&)
alternative 58A that connects Holy Name Catholic Primary School, goes around Great Barr Interchange and goes up Friary Road, Handsworth Wood Road and Church Lane like the 54/54A. Here it is superimposed on the 58
Quote from: Jack on July 09, 2024, 03:16:31 PMDeckers wouldn't be able to get under Spouthouse Lane.
I (as like most others round here) aren't happy about the 424 going and leaving estates with a very long walk to the nearest bus service especially for elderly people. Grove Vale and Longleat are the worst. A lot of Great Barr is steep so not sure how they are expecting OAP's to hike up Monksfield Avenue and Whitecrest etc. It's a shame the 61 couldn't have taken over a loop of the area similiar to the 424.
From Scott Arms turn right up to Sundial Avenue, along Hollywood and then onto the Whitecrest and serve main thoroughfare where a lot of passengers (elderly including my own family) used this service. Then onto Abbotsford Avenue, and back onto the A34 and u-turn itself back up to Wilderness Lane and serve Longleat and Grove Vale Primary School then back onto Newton Road to Scott Arms.
To leave such a big gap between bus services and also a service which was a lifeline for a lot of elderly people here is shocking with no replacement.
The main passenger usage on the 424 during its last few years was the Whitecrest, Q3 & Grove Vale section. I assume whoever's idea was to do that was the same person who thought replacing the 46 with the 16 and 16A which are dreadful, but that's another topic of discussion...
Depends what double decker? Using NXs fleet as an example Gemini's, E400s and platinum MMC would fit under
Quote from: Lukeee on July 09, 2024, 07:03:32 PMDepends what double decker? Using NXs fleet as an example Gemini's, E400s and platinum MMC would fit under
Only buses that wouldn't are the 4 Omnicitys
A simple change maybe for the Soho Road corridor which is currently every 5 minutes due to the 74. But I would make the 74 Birmingham to Dudley as normal and replace the short 74's with say a 75 to West Bromwich on the very rare chance I get the 74 back from Birmingham I notice no one seems to wait for the 74 to West Bromwich if they are just going the short justice they all cram onto the first 74 they see. So to elevate this change the number of the 74 shorts to the 75 so there is a clear difference and maybe if needed the 75 can become a 74 to Dudley at WB
We had one of these 'For The Attention Of The Occupier' letters through the door.
It appears that Lidl want to build a new store & distribution warehouse on existing land they own in Leamore & asking for comments etc.
If you know the area, which is opposite the South Staffs Waterworks premises, it is on Green Lane, which used to be on the various Walsall to Cannock routes.
Wonder, if it comes off, whether we might get a bus back along our road as a result?
Can't keep up with bus services renumbering so just in general, as Portland Road is (in my opinion) over bused, could a service be diverted to run Portland Rd, Right into Rotton Park Rd, Left onto City Rd then normal line of route, same in reverse, seems logical to send something via Rotton Park Rd as there i s a new estate down there, and i think it would be popular, maybe put the stop by the old branch line ?
just a thought ignore me, most people do !!
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on July 31, 2024, 02:26:53 PMCan't keep up with bus services renumbering so just in general, as Portland Road is (in my opinion) over bused, could a service be diverted to run Portland Rd, Right into Rotton Park Rd, Left onto City Rd then normal line of route, same in reverse, seems logical to send something via Rotton Park Rd as there i s a new estate down there, and i think it would be popular, maybe put the stop by the old branch line ?
just a thought ignore me, most people do !!
Could do but a concern would be the sharp left turn out of Rotten Park Road into the very busy City Road. I'm not a driver but I would imagine a bus would need to use the full width of City Road to make the turn.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on July 31, 2024, 02:53:07 PMCould do but a concern would be the sharp left turn out of Rotten Park Road into the very busy City Road. I'm not a driver but I would imagine a bus would need to use the full width of City Road to make the turn.
buses can do it, as a person who used to live on that corner, when the 80 had to be diverted from Icknield Port Road, it went down Gillot Road and Rotton Park Road and turned left on that corner to resume course on City Road without issue.
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on July 31, 2024, 02:26:53 PMCan't keep up with bus services renumbering so just in general, as Portland Road is (in my opinion) over bused, could a service be diverted to run Portland Rd, Right into Rotton Park Rd, Left onto City Rd then normal line of route, same in reverse, seems logical to send something via Rotton Park Rd as there i s a new estate down there, and i think it would be popular, maybe put the stop by the old branch line ?
just a thought ignore me, most people do !!
Overbused? If anything, it's underbused, if you get a service that serves Portland Road at peak times, there's a chance you'll be standing
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 31, 2024, 04:46:39 PMOverbused? If anything, it's underbused, if you get a service that serves Portland Road at peak times, there's a chance you'll be standing
Wasn't the 12/12A moved from Sandon Road to Portland Road to help the 13/13A?
Quote from: Jack on July 31, 2024, 09:44:53 PMWasn't the 12/12A moved from Sandon Road to Portland Road to help the 13/13A?
Yeah, I still regularly see buses (albeit single deckers) full and standing at peak times on all four routes
If I could change any bus service, I would change the Whitmore Reans service in Wolverhampton. Since NX came of the 5 the part of Whitmore Reans that the 5 route used to serve has hardly any buses even though it is an area buses should do well. I would reroute the 32 and 33 to serve Dunstall Road & Gorsebrook Road before rejoining there original route, don't thing this reroute would add hardly anything onto the running time of the service.
New Route Number: B2C
Express Bus Service to help the X1
Hourly Route
Route and Stops
Birmingham to Coventry:
Square Peg (terminus)
Moor Street Station
Birmingham Coach Station
*non-stop*
Cargo Terminal
Falcon Way
Trinity Park
Birmingham Airport
Birmingham International Station
Arden Hotel
*non-stop* (stay on the A45)
Parkhill Estate Terminus
*non-stop* (back on the A45 Fletchamstead Highway then left onto Kenilworth Road)
Coventry P&R - War Memorial Park
Coventry Station - Warwick Road
Well Street
Pool Meadow Bus Station
Coventry to Birmingham
Pool Meadow Bus Station (terminus)
Cross Cheaping
Coventry Station - Warwick Road
Coventry P&R - War Memorial Park
*non-stop* (right onto Fletchamstead Highway)
Parkhill Estate Terminus
*non-stop* (stay on the A45)
Viking Road
Birmingham Airport
Birmingham International Station
Trinity Park
Falcon Way
Cargo Terminal
*non-stop*
Birmingham Coach Station
Park Street (outside of Markets/Selfridges)
The Square Peg
60A to Airport
hourly extension to the 60 that continues to the airport from Cranes Park Road
(same route as A10 up to Coventry Road)
right Whitecroft Road
left Shepheard Road
right Olorenshaw Road
left Arden Oak Road
left Coventry Road
(same route and stops as X1 to the Airport)
60A from Airport
(same route and stops X1 to Arden Oak Road)
right Arden Oak Road
right Olorenshaw Road
left Shepheard Road
right Whitecroft Road
left Cranes Park Road
then current 60 route to Birmingham
Quote from: OH25 on August 02, 2024, 03:01:08 PMNew Route Number: B2C
Express Bus Service to help the X1
Hourly Route
Route and Stops
Parkhill Estate Terminus
*non-stop* (back on the A45 Fletchamstead Highway then left onto Kenilworth Road)
Maybe skip Parkhill Estate and the stops after, and have it as a variable route between Airport and Pool Meadow to speed up journey times.
Quote from: OH25 on August 02, 2024, 03:02:37 PM60A to Airport
hourly extension to the 60 that continues to the airport from Cranes Park Road
(same route as A10 up to Coventry Road)
Getting a double decker down there will be a challenge...
Quote from: OH25 on August 02, 2024, 03:01:08 PMNew Route Number: B2C
Express Bus Service to help the X1
Hourly Route
Route and Stops
Birmingham to Coventry:
Square Peg (terminus)
Moor Street Station
Birmingham Coach Station
*non-stop*
Cargo Terminal
Falcon Way
Trinity Park
Birmingham Airport
Birmingham International Station
Arden Hotel
*non-stop* (stay on the A45)
Parkhill Estate Terminus
*non-stop* (back on the A45 Fletchamstead Highway then left onto Kenilworth Road)
Coventry P&R - War Memorial Park
Coventry Station - Warwick Road
Well Street
Pool Meadow Bus Station
Coventry to Birmingham
Pool Meadow Bus Station (terminus)
Cross Cheaping
Coventry Station - Warwick Road
Coventry P&R - War Memorial Park
*non-stop* (right onto Fletchamstead Highway)
Parkhill Estate Terminus
*non-stop* (stay on the A45)
Viking Road
Birmingham Airport
Birmingham International Station
Trinity Park
Falcon Way
Cargo Terminal
*non-stop*
Birmingham Coach Station
Park Street (outside of Markets/Selfridges)
The Square Peg
X1A is a better number
Quote from: OH25 on August 02, 2024, 03:02:37 PM60A to Airport
hourly extension to the 60 that continues to the airport from Cranes Park Road
(same route as A10 up to Coventry Road)
right Whitecroft Road
left Shepheard Road
right Olorenshaw Road
left Arden Oak Road
left Coventry Road
(same route and stops as X1 to the Airport)
60A from Airport
(same route and stops X1 to Arden Oak Road)
right Arden Oak Road
right Olorenshaw Road
left Shepheard Road
right Whitecroft Road
left Cranes Park Road
then current 60 route to Birmingham
Why would anyone take the 60A to the Airport when the X1 is literally 10 mins away from Cranes Park
Quote from: jasmine on August 02, 2024, 11:49:43 PMWhy would anyone take the 60A to the Airport when the X1 is literally 10 mins away from Cranes Park
That would also provide an airport service for Small Heath and anywhere the X1 just skips past.
Also, would you walk through Cranes Park with your suitcase and bags and that down to the Harvester to get the bus? It seems to be a nice alternative, if the demand is there for it.
Quote from: ellspurs on August 03, 2024, 08:10:46 AMThat would also provide an airport service for Small Heath and anywhere the X1 just skips past.
Also, would you walk through Cranes Park with your suitcase and bags and that down to the Harvester to get the bus? It seems to be a nice alternative, if the demand is there for it.
The 58 used to do that years ago, so maybe the demand isn't there from Small Heath.
From Small Heath you can alway get off the 60 at the Swan and get the next X1
Quote from: 2206 on August 03, 2024, 10:38:04 AMThe 58 used to do that years ago, so maybe the demand isn't there from Small Heath.
From Small Heath you can alway get off the 60 at the Swan and get the next X1
Didn't the 900 at one time serve Small Heath? Or was that the 58? I recall there being a 900A too?
Quote from: Jack on August 03, 2024, 10:59:48 AMDidn't the 900 at one time serve Small Heath? Or was that the 58? I recall there being a 900A too?
As far as I know it was the 58, I think it was taken off around 2011 and the new 58 route via Lyndon to Solihull was created replacing the 42 route in that area originally with Scanias.
There were some early morning 900a journeys via Small Heath as well before it became the X1.
There was also the 38 to the Airport via Acocks Green I think.
Quote from: OH25 on August 02, 2024, 03:01:08 PMNew Route Number: B2C
Express Bus Service to help the X1
Hourly Route
Route and Stops
Birmingham to Coventry:
Square Peg (terminus)
Moor Street Station
Birmingham Coach Station
*non-stop*
Cargo Terminal
Falcon Way
Trinity Park
Birmingham Airport
Birmingham International Station
Arden Hotel
*non-stop* (stay on the A45)
Parkhill Estate Terminus
*non-stop* (back on the A45 Fletchamstead Highway then left onto Kenilworth Road)
Coventry P&R - War Memorial Park
Coventry Station - Warwick Road
Well Street
Pool Meadow Bus Station
Coventry to Birmingham
Pool Meadow Bus Station (terminus)
Cross Cheaping
Coventry Station - Warwick Road
Coventry P&R - War Memorial Park
*non-stop* (right onto Fletchamstead Highway)
Parkhill Estate Terminus
*non-stop* (stay on the A45)
Viking Road
Birmingham Airport
Birmingham International Station
Trinity Park
Falcon Way
Cargo Terminal
*non-stop*
Birmingham Coach Station
Park Street (outside of Markets/Selfridges)
The Square Peg
Not sure I understand the logic , if honest
Quote from: ellspurs on August 03, 2024, 08:10:46 AMThat would also provide an airport service for Small Heath and anywhere the X1 just skips past.
Also, would you walk through Cranes Park with your suitcase and bags and that down to the Harvester to get the bus? It seems to be a nice alternative, if the demand is there for it.
Get the 60 from Small Heath/Cranes Park to Swan Island and get the X1?
Quote from: Jack on August 03, 2024, 10:59:48 AMDidn't the 900 at one time serve Small Heath? Or was that the 58? I recall there being a 900A too?
The 900 ran via Small Heath at peak times due to congestion on the A45 at that time of day, I believe they were also regularly diverted during Birmingham City home games too. The peak time journeys were indeed evntually numbered 900A.
Quote from: jasmine on August 02, 2024, 11:49:43 PMWhy would anyone take the 60A to the Airport when the X1 is literally 10 mins away from Cranes Park
that could be the same question asking about the 97A when the X12 does the same job
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 03, 2024, 12:06:05 PMNot sure I understand the logic , if honest
that's fair
are you a regular user of the X1?
Quote from: OH25 on August 03, 2024, 09:42:42 PMthat could be the same question asking about the 97A when the X12 does the same job
The 97a takes a different route to the airport from Chelmsley Wood than the x12 (thankfully). It's actually quicker due to not going through Birmingham Business Park.
I understand what you're getting at, as it would be nice to have the direct link.
Quote from: OH25 on August 03, 2024, 09:42:42 PMthat could be the same question asking about the 97A when the X12 does the same job
The same could've been said when the 97A was introduced when the 966 was still running. There was custom prior to Chelmsley Interchange not everyone would be on it from Chelmsley
Quote from: OH25 on August 03, 2024, 09:42:42 PMthat could be the same question asking about the 97A when the X12 does the same job
No it can't? X12 and 97A are in no way similar unlike the X1 and the 60, that's like asking why does the 12/12A, 74, 126 and X8 exist when the 87 exists.
Quote from: jasmine on August 03, 2024, 11:43:15 PMNo it can't? X12 and 97A are in no way similar unlike the X1 and the 60
Isn't the 97A subsidised by the Airport/TFWM as well? I noticed over the last 2 weeks as well, they seem to have be allocating the 97/97A majority Platinum, rather than the older E400/Tridents.
Quote from: 2206 on August 03, 2024, 11:48:00 PMIsn't the 97A subsidised by the Airport/TFWM as well? I noticed over the last 2 weeks as well, they seem to have be allocating the 97/97A majority Platinum, rather than the older E400/Tridents.
heard about that somewhere
QuoteIsn't the 97A subsidised by the Airport/TFWM as well? I noticed over the last 2 weeks as well, they seem to have be allocating the 97/97A majority Platinum, rather than the older E400/Tridents.
I've had 4471 on the 97A on 22/7 (15:50 ex B'ham International)...
Quote from: ellspurs on August 03, 2024, 09:53:29 PMThe 97a takes a different route to the airport from Chelmsley Wood than the x12 (thankfully). It's actually quicker due to not going through Birmingham Business Park.
I understand what you're getting at, as it would be nice to have the direct link.
The 97a I imagine paid for by the airport etc, I believe is probably more about providing links for the workers ( as well as the public) on the bordesley green corridors more direct / cheaper options . I mean they keep going on making that a tram route to the airport, which I imagine will never happen in my lifetime.
I wonder whether there would be any call for a South Birmingham route to the Airport.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 04, 2024, 03:29:57 PMI wonder whether there would be any call for a South Birmingham route to the Airport.
They extended the 6 from Solihull to the airport didn't last long from memory.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 04, 2024, 04:09:42 PMThey extended the 6 from Solihull to the airport didn't last long from memory.
So short I don't remember it happening!
Quote from: ellspurs on August 04, 2024, 05:25:09 PMSo short I don't remember it happening!
It was in the 'branded Metrobus' era
Quote from: Tony on August 04, 2024, 06:22:04 PMIt was in the 'branded Metrobus' era
I probably had caught it as well, but my memory has gone to pot!
I was looking at the ebay listings and there's a timetable from 1990 showing 96/97/98 with 98 listed as "Chelmsley Hoppa" with no additional info. Would that have done a route that the 694 subsequently did when the 96/97 got curtailed to Pine Square in the early 2000s?
Quote from: ellspurs on August 04, 2024, 05:25:09 PMSo short I don't remember it happening!
Pretty sure the timetable was on eBay the other month
Quote from: ellspurs on August 04, 2024, 06:53:40 PMI probably had caught it as well, but my memory has gone to pot!
I was looking at the ebay listings and there's a timetable from 1990 showing 96/97/98 with 98 listed as "Chelmsley Hoppa" with no additional info. Would that have done a route that the 694 subsequently did when the 96/97 got curtailed to Pine Square in the early 2000s?
The 96 and 97 were never curtailed to Pine Square
The 98 was short route around Chelmsley Wood, it was originally a minibus circular route, H in one direction and J in the other direction. Not sure what route it/they took.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 04, 2024, 04:09:42 PMThey extended the 6 from Solihull to the airport didn't last long from memory.
Wasn't aware of that.
But I meant like, would it be a viable subsidy now, or is the demand greater in North Birmingham.
QuoteThe 96 and 97 were never curtailed to Pine Square
The 98 was short route around Chelmsley Wood, it was originally a minibus circular route, H in one direction and J in the other direction. Not sure what route it/they took.
The route of the H is attached
QuoteThey extended the 6 from Solihull to the airport didn't last long from memory.
Went via Damsonwood iirc
QuoteI probably had caught it as well, but my memory has gone to pot!
I was looking at the ebay listings and there's a timetable from 1990 showing 96/97/98 with 98 listed as "Chelmsley Hoppa" with no additional info. Would that have done a route that the 694 subsequently did when the 96/97 got curtailed to Pine Square in the early 2000s?
This was the 694
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 04, 2024, 04:09:42 PMThey extended the 6 from Solihull to the airport didn't last long from memory.
The 6 extension started in June 1998 (alternate journeys travelled through), finished 15 January 2000. Replaced by Travel Your Bus 6Y running Northfield - Solihull - Airport, which later became TWM A6. This in turn was replaced by extending the 966 from the Airport to Solihull in September 2001.
There seems to be much more demand from North Solihull to the Airport than from South/Central Solihull. I think employers at the Airport mainly look to North Solihull and around to recruit workers.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225948601439?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=r8umTzPPS_2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=ZmSTI77lSKy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Historic one online
With the 97A running to the Airport , would it not be worth trying a 17A to run to the airport via Marston Green? Providing new links to the Airport and NEC
Quote from: Dutsey on August 15, 2024, 03:30:22 PMWith the 97A running to the Airport , would it not be worth trying a 17A to run to the airport via Marston Green? Providing new links to the Airport and NEC
Firstly, No because the reliability is bad enough as it its, secondly the 97 extension to Airport is funded by the Airport so I doubt it would want to finance it.
Looking around the Herberts Park Area eairler on Google Street View as I was trying to figure out what The Herberts Park Tavern was before it Reopened as a Pub. Anyway I saw 576 on the 339 over ten years ago further down trying to figure out if I ever remember it being a Pub as I remember passing it and the Junction on the bus over 10 years ago. Which got me thinking reroute the 39 I'm not sure why the 339/39 and before that the 639 were rerouted from Herberts Park so I would reroute the 39 back down there. There would be more demand as there is loads of houses and a new estate behind it on what was Wardys.
From Wolverhampton Street left Forge Street left Park Street Onto Wiley Aveune left Park Street back onto Wolverhampton Street and into Moxley. To Darlaston Left Park Street, Right Wiley Aveune across to Park Street passing the Junction Right Forge Street passing The King George Herberts Park Tavern left Wolverhampton Street. I'm not sure if an Omnilink could make the turns around Herberts Park. The old 339/39 I think even when B10's started to be introduced to the Darlaston Routes used B6's so maybe E200's would have to be used. Although the Omnilinks do deal with Rough Hay fairly well.
For some reason I think the 39 was Diverted away from Wiley Aveune and Herberts Park due to ASB, But that area of Darlo now seems to be quiet and fairly calm. Lots of families live there mostly although there are still kids who hang out on on the old Coal Mine/Grass Area of Park Street opposite Hewitt Street. But they mostly seem to play Tag and ride Scooters or bikes.
I would bring back the X20, but renumber it the X20A. Then extend the current 20 to Birmingham, and renumber it X20.
Resorting the link between Bromsgrove and Birmingham via bus, and giving Cofton Hackett a direct service to the city centre again. Also increasing the amount of buses per hour between QE and Birmingham to every 6 minutes (every 10 minutes on Sundays and evenings)
With services alternating at the same frequency as the old X20
X20: Birmingham - QE - Northfield - Longbridge - Rubery - Catshill - Bromsgrove. Monday to Saturday every 40 minutes. Hourly on evenings and Sundays
X20A: Birmingham - QE - Northfield - Longbridge - Cofton Hackett. Monday to Saturday every 40 minutes. Hourly on evenings and Sundays
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 09, 2024, 04:59:02 PMI would bring back the X20, but renumber it the X20A. Then extend the current 20 to Birmingham, and renumber it X20.
Resorting the link between Bromsgrove and Birmingham via bus, and giving Cofton Hackett a direct service to the city centre again. Also increasing the amount of buses per hour between QE and Birmingham to every 6 minutes (every 10 minutes on Sundays and evenings)
With services alternating at the same frequency as the old X20
X20: Birmingham - QE - Northfield - Longbridge - Rubery - Catshill - Bromsgrove. Monday to Saturday every 40 minutes. Hourly on evenings and Sundays
X20A: Birmingham - QE - Northfield - Longbridge - Cofton Hackett. Monday to Saturday every 40 minutes. Hourly on evenings and Sundays
Nobody really likes odd frequencies like 'every 40 minutes' it makes it hard to know what time the bus will turn up hour to hour.
Your idea would be better keeping the current 20 hourly frequency to start with and if popular then upgrade to every 30 minutes.
I drove the 144 for many years and, prior to Covid, it carried good loads between Bromsgrove and Birmingham. Covid had a massive detrimental impact on this part of the route which I think was probably the most negative impact of any other local service.
Also, the train also got an improved frequency from Bromsgrove station to around the same time.
However, I have no doubt the passenger numbers are still there for a bus service to Birmingham but it would take a lot of 'forward thinking' risk takers for that to happen as it would need time to build up custom again (most new services are expected to make or break within a year, this would need longer I feel). The 144 ran for over 100 years as a popular route, if the right planning went into a new route, it could work again.
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 09, 2024, 04:59:02 PMI would bring back the X20, but renumber it the X20A. Then extend the current 20 to Birmingham, and renumber it X20.
Resorting the link between Bromsgrove and Birmingham via bus, and giving Cofton Hackett a direct service to the city centre again. Also increasing the amount of buses per hour between QE and Birmingham to every 6 minutes (every 10 minutes on Sundays and evenings)
With services alternating at the same frequency as the old X20
X20: Birmingham - QE - Northfield - Longbridge - Rubery - Catshill - Bromsgrove. Monday to Saturday every 40 minutes. Hourly on evenings and Sundays
X20A: Birmingham - QE - Northfield - Longbridge - Cofton Hackett. Monday to Saturday every 40 minutes. Hourly on evenings and Sundays
Personally I would just bring back the 62 on a low frequency with the 63. add in your proposed X20 to be an express sister service to the 62/3
Quote from: j789 on September 09, 2024, 06:05:57 PMNobody really likes odd frequencies like 'every 40 minutes' it makes it hard to know what time the bus will turn up hour to hour.
Your idea would be better keeping the current 20 hourly frequency to start with and if popular then upgrade to every 30 minutes.
I drove the 144 for many years and, prior to Covid, it carried good loads between Bromsgrove and Birmingham. Covid had a massive detrimental impact on this part of the route which I think was probably the most negative impact of any other local service.
Also, the train also got an improved frequency from Bromsgrove station to around the same time.
However, I have no doubt the passenger numbers are still there for a bus service to Birmingham but it would take a lot of 'forward thinking' risk takers for that to happen as it would need time to build up custom again (most new services are expected to make or break within a year, this would need longer I feel). The 144 ran for over 100 years as a popular route, if the right planning went into a new route, it could work again.
The thing with the 20 at present, is that anyone travelling from the Bromsgrove area who wants to continue on to Birmingham can change at either Longbridge or Northfield onto more frequent services (45, 47, 61, 63), or vice-versa.
The Cross-City train is more attractive now, but I think the problem is that the train station is not that well connected to Bromsgrove town centre, so maybe that's where bus operators are missing a trick in that area. It would be interesting to see how many of the local DRT journeys are taken to and from the train station.
As I understand things, First withdrew the 144 from Birmingham because their own data suggested it wasn't that well used. But then this was also prior to the nBus changes last year - maybe more people would have used it for 'local' journeys from Birmingham city centre to Selly Oak, Northfield, Longbridge and Rubery/Rednal rather than waiting for an NX Bus.
Quote from: JosephR on September 09, 2024, 07:15:23 PMPersonally I would just bring back the 62 on a low frequency with the 63. add in your proposed X20 to be an express sister service to the 62/3
It would be a waste of time, the 62 was dead wood along Lickey Road for years.
Out of curiosity, are there passengers going from Bromsgrove to the QE on the 20, as was planned/mooted at the time, bearing in mind the QE is near to Uni station?
Why didn't NX try the option of extending the 63 from Rubery to Bromsgrove, similar to what they did with the X3 from Hill Hook to Lichfield or the Coventry 20 from Bedworth to Nuneaton?
Quote from: Westy on September 09, 2024, 08:52:32 PMOut of curiosity, are there passengers going from Bromsgrove to the QE on the 20, as was planned/mooted at the time, bearing in mind the QE is near to Uni station?
Why didn't NX try the option of extending the 63 from Rubery to Bromsgrove, similar to what they did with the X3 from Hill Hook to Lichfield or the Coventry 20 from Bedworth to Nuneaton?
I
believe that the original plan was that the 49 was to be extended to Bromsgrove, but they decided on the 20 instead.
Quote from: Westy on September 09, 2024, 08:52:32 PMOut of curiosity, are there passengers going from Bromsgrove to the QE on the 20, as was planned/mooted at the time, bearing in mind the QE is near to Uni station?
Why didn't NX try the option of extending the 63 from Rubery to Bromsgrove, similar to what they did with the X3 from Hill Hook to Lichfield or the Coventry 20 from Bedworth to Nuneaton?
Then what would have served Rubery to Frankly
Quote from: Tony on September 09, 2024, 09:18:16 PMThen what would have served Rubery to Frankly
To be honest, I forgot about Frankley!
Quote from: Westy on September 09, 2024, 10:57:55 PMTo be honest, I forgot about Frankley!
Frankley does have a fair amount of bus users, which means removing a Bristol Road route can and has caused complaints, such as when the 61 was reinstated in July 2018 replacing the X61, it missed out Ormond Road and Boleyn Road. Two small roads, but still led to complaints leading to a rerouting of the 61 in March 2019 to serve those two roads again.
Quote from: Westy on September 09, 2024, 08:52:32 PMOut of curiosity, are there passengers going from Bromsgrove to the QE on the 20, as was planned/mooted at the time, bearing in mind the QE is near to Uni station?
Why didn't NX try the option of extending the 63 from Rubery to Bromsgrove, similar to what they did with the X3 from Hill Hook to Lichfield or the Coventry 20 from Bedworth to Nuneaton?
I've been on the 20 several times in recent weeks as I try to ride as many Geminis as possible before they disappear. My journeys between Selly Oak and Bromsgrove have seen passengers mainly travelling to Bromsgrove from Longbridge and Rubery (and vice versa) and then another batch from Longbridge onwards towards Selly Oak and the QE. Not so many being picked up or dropped off between Rubery and Bromsgrove (and reverse) but that may not be typical.
For both the 150 and 169, I'd 'reverse' the loop they currently do around Kings Heath.
At present, the 150 terminates at and starts from the Addison Road stop on Alcester Rd South, before going left onto Vicarage Road, then left again onto Howard Road, finally turning right back onto Alcester Rd South towards Maypole.
The 169 does the same loop on arriving in Kings Heath, before terminating at that same Addison Road stop. From there it turns right into Addison Road towards Billesley.
If they both went the other way round, and then terminated/started from Vicarage Road (same stop as the 27/35/76), I feel that would be more beneficial to intending passengers heading towards Billesley/Yardley Wood/Shirley/Maypole especially those waiting at the existing 50 and 11A/27/76 stops on Addison Road, thus picking up more passengers as a result. Rather than being 'isolated' on their own the other side of the road by Sainsburys.
Might need a few tweaks to the timetables to avoid 'bus blocking' at that stop on Vicarage Road. To be honest, I can't see the point of the 35 stopping there anyway, not when the next stop is literally just around the corner, though it seems this is where drivers do their change-over.
Quote from: Stu on January 05, 2025, 05:13:21 PMFor both the 150 and 169, I'd 'reverse' the loop they currently do around Kings Heath.
At present, the 150 terminates at and starts from the Addison Road stop on Alcester Rd South, before going left onto Vicarage Road, then left again onto Howard Road, finally turning right back onto Alcester Rd South towards Maypole.
The 169 does the same loop on arriving in Kings Heath, before terminating at that same Addison Road stop. From there it turns right into Addison Road towards Billesley.
If they both went the other way round, and then terminated/started from Vicarage Road (same stop as the 27/35/76), I feel that would be more beneficial to intending passengers heading towards Billesley/Yardley Wood/Shirley/Maypole especially those waiting at the existing 50 and 11A/27/76 stops on Addison Road, thus picking up more passengers as a result. Rather than being 'isolated' on their own the other side of the road by Sainsburys.
Might need a few tweaks to the timetables to avoid 'bus blocking' at that stop on Vicarage Road. To be honest, I can't see the point of the 35 stopping there anyway, not when the next stop is literally just around the corner, though it seems this is where drivers do their change-over.
What if both services were merged into one? No looping required then?
Quote from: Stu on January 05, 2025, 05:13:21 PMFor both the 150 and 169, I'd 'reverse' the loop they currently do around Kings Heath.
Nice idea although the no right turn at the Red Lion (Howard Rd to Vicarage Rd) means a Bus Gate would be required on Colmore Rd (https://maps.app.goo.gl/4G93QRK5jDr3Um1X7).
Quote from: Busmapper on January 06, 2025, 03:56:53 PMNice idea although the no right turn at the Red Lion (Howard Rd to Vicarage Rd) means a Bus Gate would be required on Colmore Rd (https://maps.app.goo.gl/4G93QRK5jDr3Um1X7).
Ah I see now thanks! Rather than put a bus gate on Colmore Road, it would probably be easier to add an exception for buses to the right-turn restriction.
Quote from: Stu on January 06, 2025, 06:57:34 PMRather than put a bus gate on Colmore Road, it would probably be easier to add an exception for buses to the right-turn restriction.
I know this thread is more about fantasy route changes, but if this change was to be made in reality then no, because (traffic engineering detail alert) the Red Lion left turn green light sequence is also the right turn into Howard Rd. This single green phase would need separating into two phases to safely accommodate the occasion bus turning right out of Howard Rd, resulting in a big reduction in junction capacity. A bus gate on the other hand would just need a bus activated sinking bollard on Colmore Rd.
Better still, and now this is fantasy, bring back the termini in All Saints Road to allow use of Abbots Road again. Used for decades for the likes of the 2 and 27 back in the days when parked cars were fewer and crucially narrower...and the residents didn't object to buses.
X26
Birmingham to Dudley (express service)
could start off as a morning and evening peak service
starting at Colmore Row
stopping only at:
all stops until Five Ways Morrisons
Bearwood Interchange
first stop after it turns right off Hagley Road
before the J2 roundabout
after the J2 roundabout
Burnt Tree Island by Tesco
and then all stops to Dudley
(same stops for the return journey back to Birmingham - except the first stop after it turns left onto Hagley Road)
Quote from: OH25 on January 29, 2025, 12:11:30 PMX26
Birmingham to Dudley (express service)
could start off as a morning and evening peak service
starting at Colmore Row
stopping only at:
all stops until Five Ways Morrisons
Bearwood Interchange
first stop after it turns right off Hagley Road
before the J2 roundabout
after the J2 roundabout
Burnt Tree Island by Tesco
and then all stops to Dudley
(same stops for the return journey back to Birmingham - except the first stop after it turns left onto Hagley Road)
You mean the 926 that was tried in 1986?
Quote from: Tony on January 29, 2025, 12:25:13 PMYou mean the 926 that was tried in 1986?
Was there a 126S too
@Tony ?
Quote from: OH25 on January 29, 2025, 12:11:30 PMX26
Birmingham to Dudley (express service)
could start off as a morning and evening peak service
starting at Colmore Row
stopping only at:
all stops until Five Ways Morrisons
Bearwood Interchange
first stop after it turns right off Hagley Road
before the J2 roundabout
after the J2 roundabout
Burnt Tree Island by Tesco
and then all stops to Dudley
(same stops for the return journey back to Birmingham - except the first stop after it turns left onto Hagley Road)
Wasn't that similar to what NX tried with the X7
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on January 29, 2025, 02:15:02 PMWasn't that similar to what NX tried with the X7
No because the X7 was more of an expression version of the 87 didn't serve the entire of Wolverhampton Road and went through Oldbury and Smethwick.
Quote from: Tony on January 29, 2025, 12:25:13 PMYou mean the 926 that was tried in 1986?
damn I was conceived 10 years too late
always room for a 40 year anniversary and comeback
Quote from: Wumpty on January 29, 2025, 01:16:53 PMWas there a 126S too @Tony ?
It was 926 to Gornal Wood and 926A to Sedgley, replaced by 126S later
Will never work with traffic congestion around the ode toyz yam us island
Quote from: karl724223 on January 29, 2025, 04:16:30 PMWill never work with traffic congestion around the ode toyz yam us island
I agree entirely
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 29, 2025, 03:37:08 PMIt was 926 to Gornal Wood and 926A to Sedgley, replaced by 126S later
I couldn't remember the chronology - thanks for clarifying!
X(52)9 Walsall - Wolverhampton
Stopping places:
Wolverhampton Street (Crown Wharf Retail Park)
Wolverhampton Road/Primley Avenue
Willenhall (Sikh Temple)
Willenhall (The Dale)
Portobello Island
Cleveland Arms
Qualcast Road
Wolverhampton Bus Station
Quote from: Wumpty on January 29, 2025, 08:14:47 PMX(52)9 Walsall - Wolverhampton
Stopping places:
Wolverhampton Street (Crown Wharf Retail Park)
Wolverhampton Road/Primley Avenue
Willenhall (Sikh Temple)
Willenhall (The Dale)
Portobello Island
Cleveland Arms
Qualcast Road
Wolverhampton Bus Station
There briefly was an X529 limited stop service a few years back, didn't work out so it was withdrawn.
Quote from: Stu on January 29, 2025, 08:24:03 PMThere briefly was an X529 limited stop service a few years back, didn't work out so it was withdrawn.
That's because it used the Black Country Route instead!
Would've got a few more passengers with Wumpty's suggestion!
Quote from: Westy on January 29, 2025, 08:27:11 PMThat's because it used the Black Country Route instead!
Would've got a few more passengers with Wumpty's suggestion!
The 966 did exactly that from 1986 and that didn't work either
Quote from: Tony on January 29, 2025, 08:58:07 PMThe 966 did exactly that from 1986 and that didn't work either
Except it only stopped at Willenhall (Market Place) between Wolves and Walsall. However the issue of congestion would effect the suggested X529 as much as the existing 529.
Quote from: Tony on January 29, 2025, 08:58:07 PMThe 966 did exactly that from 1986 and that didn't work either
Was it that the 966 didn't work or a change in strategy? There seemed to be a move away from express, long distance services at one point (certainly around Walsall) to bolster shorter stopping services. For example, Walsall to Aldridge leg went from 20 mins 367, 368 (368 hourly, 367 20-40) to 15 minutes 367/368 (each 30 mins) both with 30 mins limited stop 966 to then eventually straight 10 mins stopping 366,367,368 (later 6, 7, 7a).
This with cut backs and withdrawals of other limited stop services. The 51 bolstered to every 6 minutes at one stage if I remember rightly with the 951 (X51) cut to half hourly. Very different now. The 997 was cut to 20 minutes from Aldridge to Birmingham with a 355 A/C for the Walsall, Rushall, Aldridge section etc
The 529 had Gas Powered singles I think at a high frequency. So maybe not a failing service, rather a different strategic approach? And of course, a train service from Walsall to Wolves operated I believe by a NX franchise.
Quote from: Stu on January 29, 2025, 08:24:03 PMThere briefly was an X529 limited stop service a few years back, didn't work out so it was withdrawn.
I remember that - did it run via Black Country Route and The Keyway? We trialled a limited stop 29 at Midland Choice to cover gaps on the Walsall Track route interworkings. Mild success until Chase registered a 529 and WMT added dodgers to run ahead of us!
I still think theirs mileage in something (no pun intended) at morning/evening peak times, just needs a bit more thought - anyone got any cheap Darts or Nationals for sale :wink:
Return of the 31 ( Solihull to Birmingham via shaftmoor lane ), however renumbered as the 4A, or keeping the 31. Timetable will be half hourly, possibly interwork with the 5
Quote from: BBS on January 30, 2025, 03:30:08 PMReturn of the 31 ( Solihull to Birmingham via shaftmoor lane ), however renumbered as the 4A, or keeping the 31. Timetable will be half hourly, possibly interwork with the 5
Why would they renumber it to the 4A if the 4A is already in use
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on January 30, 2025, 03:43:51 PMWhy would they renumber it to the 4A if the 4A is already in use
Also the 4A is far better than the 31
The X529 could maybe work if you ran it via the Black Country Route up to the Keyway then down Rose Hill to serve Willenhall and only ran at Morning and Evening Peaks maybe Monday - Friday every 15-20 minutes. However NX Tried it it didn't work. Maybe a reintroduced 40 could bolster the Walsall to Wolverhampton Via Bentley and Willenhall Service or a variation of the 37 that then turns down Churchill Road to rejoin the 529 route.
Surely there's no point in looking at the Walsall to Wolves & Walsall to Darlo corridor until you see how the train affects things?
Quote from: Budgie on January 30, 2025, 10:55:38 AMWas it that the 966 didn't work or a change in strategy? There seemed to be a move away from express, long distance services at one point (certainly around Walsall) to bolster shorter stopping services. For example, Walsall to Aldridge leg went from 20 mins 367, 368 (368 hourly, 367 20-40) to 15 minutes 367/368 (each 30 mins) both with 30 mins limited stop 966 to then eventually straight 10 mins stopping 366,367,368 (later 6, 7, 7a).
This with cut backs and withdrawals of other limited stop services. The 51 bolstered to every 6 minutes at one stage if I remember rightly with the 951 (X51) cut to half hourly. Very different now. The 997 was cut to 20 minutes from Aldridge to Birmingham with a 355 A/C for the Walsall, Rushall, Aldridge section etc
The 529 had Gas Powered singles I think at a high frequency. So maybe not a failing service, rather a different strategic approach? And of course, a train service from Walsall to Wolves operated I believe by a NX franchise.
Quote from: Westy on January 29, 2025, 08:27:11 PMThat's because it used the Black Country Route instead!
Would've got a few more passengers with Wumpty's suggestion!
There were huge reliability issues with the Wolves - Walsall section. It was only given 23 minutes to get from Wolves to Walsall (I used to catch the 0823hrs service from Walsall to Aldridge in 1987 to get to school, so shows how long ago it was!), and given that it was such a long route, you'd have bottle necks along the stretch from Airport to Wolves.
The 0823hrs was regularly 10-15 mins late, so curtailing the 966 at Walsall made sense.
Equally, there was a shift change in the early mid 90s when Timesaver was debranded and became just limited stop services, still using DP Metrobuses, though repainted into the standard livery.
I loved the concept of a "direct" service from Walsall to Airport, though being such a long route, it was always going to fall foul of the traffic.
Quote from: Tony on January 29, 2025, 08:58:07 PMThe 966 did exactly that from 1986 and that didn't work either
Was it reliability, low patronage or just a saturated route that saw it not work, though in fairness that was almost 40 years ago since that stretch ran, and appreciate X529 was trialled since.
The 966 end to end was an epic route, but on my (few) rides the Walsall - Sutton section was the busiest by some way.
Between Wolves and Walsall, I guess it was the familiar story that a low frequency fast service rarely does well when there is a much more frequent all stops service.
I bet there was hardly any cross-Walsall usage either.
Quote from: Budgie on January 30, 2025, 10:55:38 AMThe 529 had Gas Powered singles I think at a high frequency. So maybe not a failing service, rather a different strategic approach? And of course, a train service from Walsall to Wolves operated I believe by a NX franchise.
The gas powered buses (converted to diesel after the gas contract expired I believe) numbered 14 in number (1501-1514) and worked alongside conventional diesels.
The train service originally started from Wellington and called at all stations to Walsall but resulted in a 40 minute service. Another attempt was to run a hourly shuttle service between Wolves and Walsall. This was withdrawn due to lack of use. Both were operated by Central Trains which as you suggest was a National Express operation.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on January 31, 2025, 10:51:57 AMThe gas powered buses (converted to diesel after the gas contract expired I believe) numbered 14 in number (1501-1514) and worked alongside conventional diesels.
The train service originally started from Wellington and called at all stations to Walsall but resulted in a 40 minute service. Another attempt was to run a hourly shuttle service between Wolves and Walsall. This was withdrawn due to lack of use. Both were operated by Central Trains which as you suggest was a National Express operation.
I tried catching that Walsall to Telford train one day.
Cancelled both directions!
No wonder it got withdrawn!
Quote from: Westy on January 30, 2025, 06:12:21 PMSurely there's no point in looking at the Walsall to Wolves & Walsall to Darlo corridor until you see how the train affects things?
If the stations are built within the next year or to that is
QuoteAlso the 4A is far better than the 31
How's that?
Quote from: BBS on February 02, 2025, 03:05:27 PMHow's that?
It's faster, more direct and it's more frequent, the 4A approx every 15 minutes, 31 was every 20 minutes in it's last few years.
Quote from: BBS on February 02, 2025, 03:05:27 PMHow's that?
The 4A was introduced in 2018 to provide passengers in the Gospel Oak area with a faster route to Birmingham, which is what they wanted.
What was left of the 31 between Acocks Green and Solihull was eventually replaced later with an half-hourly extension of the 4A to Solihull.
https://wmbu.org.uk/2018/06/south-birmingham-service-changes-from-22nd-july-2018/
https://wmbu.org.uk/2021/08/birmingham-service-changes-sunday-august-29th-2021/
And that is why the current 4A is 'better' than the 31 used to be.