If you had the chance to modify or add any service, what would you do?

[2206]

I have two changes that I would like to see..
The first change is something that I don't know why we don't have it. The Fort Shopping Centre is one of the biggest shopping centres in Birmingham yet doesn't have a service that links it to the city centre.(Before anyone asks, the FD service doesn't serve the Fort.)
So here's my change.
I would extend the 38 to the city centre and upgrade the frequency to every 20/30 minutes. This change gives a new link from the City Centre to the Fort and Castle Vale  (I know the 67 is already a good link between the city centre and Castle Vale).  in the sense that employees that live on the other side of town don't have to take any bus to Erdington and then the current 38 or the 96 to the Fort.

Surely most of those shops are in Birmingham City Centre. And in terms of size, its probably fairly small in comparison to Solihull Town Centre and Birmingham City Centre.
Would many people from the other side of the City Centre actually travel to the Fort, can't see there being much demand, given that there is currently no service at all.
There did used to be a bus service from Birmingham City Centre (FD) and it ran all day - Which looking at its timetable does have a stop at the Fort shopping centre, which is also now peak time only.

[Busboy105]

Surely most of those shops are in Birmingham City Centre. And in terms of size, its probably fairly small in comparison to Solihull Town Centre and Birmingham City Centre.
Would many people from the other side of the City Centre actually travel to the Fort, can't see there being much demand, given that there is currently no service at all.
There did used to be a bus service from Birmingham City Centre (FD) and it ran all day - Which looking at its timetable does have a stop at the Fort shopping centre, which is also now peak time only.

FD is still around but it doesn't stop at the Fort it stops at Fort Dunlop instead.

[2206]

FD is still around but it doesn't stop at the Fort it stops at Fort Dunlop instead.

The stop list on Traveline WM states it stops that it does, "fort shopping centre, fort retail park":

Birmingham, Church Centre (Stop MS7)
Aston University, Matthew Boulton College (Stop JR1)
Aston University, Millennium Point (opp)
Nechells Green, Windsor St South (opp)
Nechells Green, Hyssop Close (adjacent)
Nechells Green, Bloomsbury Street (adj)
Saltley, Nechells Place (adj)
Nechells, Star City Terminus (on)
Fort Shopping Centre, Fort Retail Park (before)
Fort Dunlop (opp)

[Tony]

I have two changes that I would like to see..
The first change is something that I don't know why we don't have it. The Fort Shopping Centre is one of the biggest shopping centres in Birmingham yet doesn't have a service that links it to the city centre.(Before anyone asks, the FD service doesn't serve the Fort.)
So here's my change.
I would extend the 38 to the city centre and upgrade the frequency to every 20/30 minutes. This change gives a new link from the City Centre to the Fort and Castle Vale  (I know the 67 is already a good link between the city centre and Castle Vale).  in the sense that employees that live on the other side of town don't have to take any bus to Erdington and then the current 38 or the 96 to the Fort.

Many ways have been tried at service The Fort and there is just no demand.
First attempt was the 993/4 Limited stop from City to Chelmsley Wood via Fort. The 11A/C was diverted in. The 966 went via there. None came anywhere near close to making it worthwhile

[Stu]

The stop list on Traveline WM states it stops that it does, "fort shopping centre, fort retail park":

Fort Shopping Centre, Fort Retail Park (before)

The stops are on Fort Parkway, so while it doesn't directly serve the retail park as the 38 and 96 do, it does stop nearby.

Anyway, the Fort Shopping Park seems to have the same array of shops as most other shopping centres so I'm not sure why people would want to make a special trip from Birmingham city centre, which has Grand Central and the Bull Ring, to the Fort. Also there perhaps is a reason why the FD service doesn't operate all day any more, not enough demand.

The second change that I would like to see is a Bearwood-West Bromwich service via Smethwick.
There's 3 ways that I would want to do this:
1. There will be a new 15 service that will run between Birmingham and West Bromwich via Five Ways, Bearwood (via Sandon Road), Smethwick Blue Gates and Rolfe Street Station, The Hawthorns and West Bromwich.
2. There will be a new 83 service that will run between Bearwood and West Bromwich. It will follow the route that the first proposed route will take after Bearwood the only difference is that the 83 will serve Bearwood Bus Station and the upper part of Bearwood Road.

Now this is something that warrants attention, as I have read several comments from some bus users bemoaning the lack of a direct bus service between Bearwood and Smethwick. I'm not sure whether such a service would need to continue into Birmingham or not, I might have to give this some thought myself.

[Busboy105]

Many ways have been tried at service The Fort and there is just no demand.
First attempt was the 993/4 Limited stop from City to Chelmsley Wood via Fort. The 11A/C was diverted in. The 966 went via there. None came anywhere near close to making it worthwhile

When was the 11 diverted in?

[Busboy105]

The stops are on Fort Parkway, so while it doesn't directly serve the retail park as the 38 and 96 do, it does stop nearby.

Anyway, the Fort Shopping Park seems to have the same array of shops as most other shopping centres so I'm not sure why people would want to make a special trip from Birmingham city centre, which has Grand Central and the Bull Ring, to the Fort. Also there perhaps is a reason why the FD service doesn't operate all day any more, not enough demand.

Now this is something that warrants attention, as I have read several comments from some bus users bemoaning the lack of a direct bus service between Bearwood and Smethwick. I'm not sure whether such a service would need to continue into Birmingham or not, I might have to give this some thought myself.

To be fair, considering the never-ending Broad Street works, reliability will be an issue.

[OH25]

The second change that I would like to see is a Bearwood-West Bromwich service via Smethwick.
There's 3 ways that I would want to do this:
1. There will be a new 15 service that will run between Birmingham and West Bromwich via Five Ways, Bearwood (via Sandon Road), Smethwick Blue Gates and Rolfe Street Station, The Hawthorns and West Bromwich.
2. There will be a new 83 service that will run between Bearwood and West Bromwich. It will follow the route that the first proposed route will take after Bearwood the only difference is that the 83 will serve Bearwood Bus Station and the upper part of Bearwood Road.
3. Extend the 61 from the Booth Street Metro Stop back to Bearwood extending to West Bromwich as the route mentioned above. This one is the third choice for a reason because I'm pretty sure the reason why the 61 was pegged back to Booth Street was because of low usage.

The 61 could be extended to Grove Lane at the bottom of Cape Hill (eventually will be good for the new MMH when it's completed). I would say from Booth Street up to the main roundabout by Grove Lane and Windmill Lane, but straight down the 40mph road down to the McDonalds and then terminate opposite where the last 89E finishes. On the way back to Perry Barr it could go up Cape Hill and then right down Windmill Lane back to Booth Street and Perry Barr.

I was thinking the same can be done for the 54/54A - similar to my 61 idea. Could have the 54 from Rolfe Street go down Grove Lane to the McDonalds then up Cape Hill back to its normal route and have it from Quinton do its current route.

Then you could have the 54A from Rolfe Street do its current route up Windmill Lane to Quinton and on the way back go down Cape Hill to the McDonalds and then left at that roundabout up Grove Lane to its normal route back to West Bromwich.


In terms of a Bearwood to West Bromwich via Smethwick route. Bring back the 50 route have it follow the 48 towards Warley and then it can turn right at the roundabout at Norman Road, continue straight on Stanhope Road, right at Church Road, left Bearwood Road, straight on to Smethwick High Street, left Smethwick Blue Gates/Stony Lane, right Devonshire Road, left Holly Lane, right Victoria Road, left then right onto Rood End Road, right at the roundabout onto Birmingham Road, left onto Spon Lane South, straight over the roundabout to Trinity Way (or turns right if you want it to serve Kenrick Park), straight at the lights onto The Expressway, then Cronehills Linkway and New Street into West Bromwich Bus Station - shares the stand with either the 49 or the 54/54A.

[Busboy105]

The 61 could be extended to Grove Lane at the bottom of Cape Hill (eventually will be good for the new MMH when it's completed). I would say from Booth Street up to the main roundabout by Grove Lane and Windmill Lane, but straight down the 40mph road down to the McDonalds and then terminate opposite where the last 89E finishes. On the way back to Perry Barr it could go up Cape Hill and then right down Windmill Lane back to Booth Street and Perry Barr.

I was thinking the same can be done for the 54/54A - similar to my 61 idea. Could have the 54 from Rolfe Street go down Grove Lane to the McDonalds then up Cape Hill back to its normal route and have it from Quinton do its current route.

Then you could have the 54A from Rolfe Street do its current route up Windmill Lane to Quinton and on the way back go down Cape Hill to the McDonalds and then left at that roundabout up Grove Lane to its normal route back to West Bromwich.


In terms of a Bearwood to West Bromwich via Smethwick route. Bring back the 50 route have it follow the 48 towards Warley and then it can turn right at the roundabout at Norman Road, continue straight on Stanhope Road, right at Church Road, left Bearwood Road, straight on to Smethwick High Street, left Smethwick Blue Gates/Stony Lane, right Devonshire Road, left Holly Lane, right Victoria Road, left then right onto Rood End Road, right at the roundabout onto Birmingham Road, left onto Spon Lane South, straight over the roundabout to Trinity Way (or turns right if you want it to serve Kenrick Park), straight at the lights onto The Expressway, then Cronehills Linkway and New Street into West Bromwich Bus Station - shares the stand with either the 49 or the 54/54A.

Will that work for the 61? Because i don't think that will improve the passenger numbers on it, it's a dead route "walking".
With the 54/54A, is taking them out of Smethwick worth it?
The route 50 looks good, I would just change the route number to 83 because it's vacant. (I don't like when a new route takes up an already existing number). What would it's frequency be?

[monkeyjoe]

When was the 11 diverted in?

Might have been late 90s from memory, the other problem is used to create/ attract problems with teenage thugs causing problems on the buses and the shopping center

[OH25]

Will that work for the 61? Because i don't think that will improve the passenger numbers on it, it's a dead route "walking".
With the 54/54A, is taking them out of Smethwick worth it?
The route 50 looks good, I would just change the route number to 83 because it's vacant. (I don't like when a new route takes up an already existing number). What would it's frequency be?

I would think it creates a more useful link with the Dudley Road services rather than just the tram at Booth Street as well as hopefully maintaining it's reliability time wise. I do agree it's quite a weird route.

The 54/54A changes aren't taking it out of Smethwick, it's just creating an added loop around Cape Hill as well as something that may be needed for when the MMH opens. It might help with reliability with the traffic lights at the top of Cape Hill by Greggs.

I would think this 50 route would run every hour and finish early evening time .. similar times to the old Diamond 55 that was withdrawn recently.

[Busboy105]

I would think it creates a more useful link with the Dudley Road services rather than just the tram at Booth Street as well as hopefully maintaining it's reliability time wise. I do agree it's quite a weird route.

The 54/54A changes aren't taking it out of Smethwick, it's just creating an added loop around Cape Hill as well as something that may be needed for when the MMH opens. It might help with reliability with the traffic lights at the top of Cape Hill by Greggs.

I would think this 50 route would run every hour and finish early evening time .. similar times to the old Diamond 55 that was withdrawn recently.

Those changes look good to me. I don't think an hourly frequency for the 50 would work; people wouldn't be happy if they waited so long for a Bearwood-West Brom service only for it to be hourly. But then again, I'm kind of unfamiliar with the area.
Just had a random thought: would it be possible if the 20/21/122 services all combined together to form one Bearwood-Oldbury circular service?

[Sh4318]

Now this is something that warrants attention, as I have read several comments from some bus users bemoaning the lack of a direct bus service between Bearwood and Smethwick. I'm not sure whether such a service would need to continue into Birmingham or not, I might have to give this some thought myself.

The 450 was decimated by having to serve Windmill Lane to replace the 438/439, making journeys between Bearwood and West Bromwich longer than required. Whilst other options are available, the 48 is not the quickest, and the 48A and 49 do "go around the wrekin", particularly the 49

[Wumpty]

I have two changes that I would like to see..
The first change is something that I don't know why we don't have it. The Fort Shopping Centre is one of the biggest shopping centres in Birmingham yet doesn't have a service that links it to the city centre.(Before anyone asks, the FD service doesn't serve the Fort.)
So here's my change.
I would extend the 38 to the city centre and upgrade the frequency to every 20/30 minutes. This change gives a new link from the City Centre to the Fort and Castle Vale  (I know the 67 is already a good link between the city centre and Castle Vale).  in the sense that employees that live on the other side of town don't have to take any bus to Erdington and then the current 38 or the 96 to the Fort.

The second change that I would like to see is a Bearwood-West Bromwich service via Smethwick.
There's 3 ways that I would want to do this:
1. There will be a new 15 service that will run between Birmingham and West Bromwich via Five Ways, Bearwood (via Sandon Road), Smethwick Blue Gates and Rolfe Street Station, The Hawthorns and West Bromwich.
2. There will be a new 83 service that will run between Bearwood and West Bromwich. It will follow the route that the first proposed route will take after Bearwood the only difference is that the 83 will serve Bearwood Bus Station and the upper part of Bearwood Road.
3. Extend the 61 from the Booth Street Metro Stop back to Bearwood extending to West Bromwich as the route mentioned above. This one is the third choice for a reason because I'm pretty sure the reason why the 61 was pegged back to Booth Street was because of low usage.

The biggest issue with The Fort is the location. It is one of the biggest out-of-town retail parks in the Midlands for that very reason - it was designed to be out of town and assumed for car users. How many people do you know would purposefully use an out-of-town facility,. do huge amounts of shopping and lug it all back on the bus? I'm sure there have been previous attempts at extending bus services to The Fort but the simple fact is it doesn't work.

I like your suggestions and, in the spirit of this topic, agree that your options are workable to find reasonable solutions. A comparable out-of-town retail park is Bentley Bridge in Wolverhampton, again, designed to be out of town and assumed for car users though the transport network has been improved over many years to link in with existing facilities at New Cross Hospital and Wednesfield town centre. It's an easier prospect to re-route services around the BB loop in both directions because of where it's sited.

Unfortunately, The Fort is going to be the exception to the public transport rule.

[Busboy105]

The biggest issue with The Fort is the location. It is one of the biggest out-of-town retail parks in the Midlands for that very reason - it was designed to be out of town and assumed for car users. How many people do you know would purposefully use an out-of-town facility,. do huge amounts of shopping and lug it all back on the bus? I'm sure there have been previous attempts at extending bus services to The Fort but the simple fact is it doesn't work.

I like your suggestions and, in the spirit of this topic, agree that your options are workable to find reasonable solutions. A comparable out-of-town retail park is Bentley Bridge in Wolverhampton, again, designed to be out of town and assumed for car users though the transport network has been improved over many years to link in with existing facilities at New Cross Hospital and Wednesfield town centre. It's an easier prospect to re-route services around the BB loop in both directions because of where it's sited.

Unfortunately, The Fort is going to be the exception to the public transport rule.

That's probably why the Bentley Bridge links works so well. Because you can link them to NCH and Wednesfield whereas with the Fort, the only high profile areas that you can link with it are Sutton Coldfield and Chelmsley Wood which is already covered by the 71 and 96 respectively.