If you had the chance to modify or add any service, what would you do?

[2206]

This is a route that tends to get forgotten about in favour of all the routes going into
City Centre. It's been operated with sheds for a number of years until now, when it probably carries more passengers than plenty of other City serving routes. I'm not sure what the situation is at Bromford, but that was always a hotspot for traffic along the route.

Somebody mentioned Soho Road earlier on. Soho Road at the junction with Rookery Road was problematic due to the short cycle on the lights. You could just about get there buses through a green light before it turned red, and that's without cars in the traffic! Whether it's changed or not, I don't know. Dudley Road was a nightmare as you depart City Hospital and attempt to turn right, bringing Dudley Road to a standstill because nobody would let you out! Only the 82/87s would let you out there... Selly Oak with its constant roadworks at the Sainsbury's. There's still works going on there today!

Stechford Lane and Station Road is probably another traffic hotspot aswell, as there is also constant roadworks and congestion going through there.
The 55 was rerouted a few months back to go straight onto Coleshill Road at Fox & Goose, no longer serving Stechford Lane because the roadworks and congestion were making the service unreliable, but the 11 still runs through there.

[Busboy105]

What happens to all the hundreds of passengers who travel through those two places?

Don't ask me, @Crosville suggested it. I was just asking what side would it operate?

[Busboy105]

Stechford Lane and Station Road is probably another traffic hotspot aswell, as there is also constant roadworks and congestion going through there.
The 55 was rerouted a few months back to go straight onto Coleshill Road at Fox & Goose, no longer serving Stechford Lane because the roadworks and congestion were making the service unreliable, but the 11 still runs through there.

The reason that there is so much traffic in Stechford is because they are doing works there where they are making Station Road dual carriageway, making the bridge bigger and replacing the old traffic light system with a roundabout. These works should be finished by the end of next year so these changes to the road will hopefully improve the traffic there.

[Stu]

Just seen a post on this forum complaining about the 11 Outer Circle. The 11 as it is struggles with reliability because it runs down the A4040 as it passes by major roads. What needs to happen is that the 11 needs to be split into several routes which will hopefully improve the reliabilty.
Route 1 will be Acocks Green to Perry Barr via Yardley, Ward End, Erdington and Witton.
Route 2 will be Perry Barr to Selly Oak via Handsworth, Winson Green, City Hospital, Bearwood and Harborne. This route can be extended to Weoley Castle, Shenley Fields and Northfield.
And route 3 will cover the rest of the existing 11 route from Selly Oak to Acocks Green via Cotteridge, Kings Heath, Billesley and Hall Green.
The numbers of the routes I haven't picked yet so you can come up with some.
This might not happen because the 11 is such a popular route NX wouldn't want to chop it up. Plus people would probably be angry that the "longest route in Europe" is dead or whatever but something needs to be done ASAP.

That is pretty similar to an idea I had myself a while back, though I wasn't 100% sure on the best points to split the route.

Unless some serious bus priority measures can be put in place, and something done about awful traffic congestion and lack of parking enforcement, the 11 is just going to become even more unreliable and unsustainable in its present form.

Yes, I know the 'Outer Circle' is an iconic route, and I for one would like it to be retained, but I think we have to start being realistic, and come up with practical ways to ensure that this route survives in some form, even if in three pieces.

Part of the problem will be determining suitable terminus and turning points, in order to allow passengers smooth onwards journey transitions.

One alteration to suggestions 2 and 3 would be to have the routes terminate at the QE Hospital rather than Selly Oak, I don't know how the bus interchange there would cope or if it would be suitable for a high frequency service, just putting it out there. I don't see the point of extending it to Northfield, unless it was to replace part of some other route, perhaps the 27?

[Stu]

Stechford Lane and Station Road is probably another traffic hotspot aswell, as there is also constant roadworks and congestion going through there.

The reason that there is so much traffic in Stechford is because they are doing works there where they are making Station Road dual carriageway, making the bridge bigger and replacing the old traffic light system with a roundabout. These works should be finished by the end of next year so these changes to the road will hopefully improve the traffic there.

But the problem is that roadworks elsewhere will pop up, its a never-ending story!

Major roadworks in Selly Oak, major roadworks in Stechford, and major roadworks to come in Perry Barr, now that should be fun when those get started!

[Busboy105]

That is pretty similar to an idea I had myself a while back, though I wasn't 100% sure on the best points to split the route.

Unless some serious bus priority measures can be put in place, and something done about awful traffic congestion and lack of parking enforcement, the 11 is just going to become even more unreliable and unsustainable in its present form.

Yes, I know the 'Outer Circle' is an iconic route, and I for one would like it to be retained, but I think we have to start being realistic, and come up with practical ways to ensure that this route survives in some form, even if in three pieces.

Part of the problem will be determining suitable terminus and turning points, in order to allow passengers smooth onwards journey transitions.

One alteration to suggestions 2 and 3 would be to have the routes terminate at the QE Hospital rather than Selly Oak, I don't know how the bus interchange there would cope or if it would be suitable for a high frequency service, just putting it out there. I don't see the point of extending it to Northfield, unless it was to replace part of some other route, perhaps the 27?

Isn't the Q.E bus interchange full enough already? I'm pretty sure that's the reason why the X20/21/22 doesn't stop there.

[Busboy105]

But the problem is that roadworks elsewhere will pop up, its a never-ending story!

Major roadworks in Selly Oak, major roadworks in Stechford, and major roadworks to come in Perry Barr, now that should be fun when those get started!

The good thing is at least the Selly Oak and the Stechford works ends next year!!

[Tony]

Isn't the Q.E bus interchange full enough already? I'm pretty sure that's the reason why the X20/21/22 doesn't stop there.

Normally full of Private Hire Cars!

[Busboy105]

Normally full of Private Hire Cars!

Why are they there for?

[the trainbasher]

For the outer circle, keep it as it is, but introduce shorts which start somewhere off the circle, finish somewhere on the circle and calling into places just off the circle en route (for example a SWL service running from West Heath and calling in at the QE, terminating at somewhere like Bearwood or city hospital) with a 20 min frequency.

[Stu]

Why are they there for?

Presumably to pick up and drop off visitors to the hospital.

[MasterPlan]

But the problem is that roadworks elsewhere will pop up, its a never-ending story!

Major roadworks in Selly Oak, major roadworks in Stechford, and major roadworks to come in Perry Barr, now that should be fun when those get started!

From what I've seen with regards to how it may look when the Selly Oak Triangle is completed though it should benefit the buses greatly.

[Crosville]

What is the PVR for the 11, splitting the route would mean either same allocation or more buses, definitely need overlaps with through passengers, adding more buses costs more, i read on another forum it can cost something around £100,000 to register one extra bus alone

[Stu]

What is the PVR for the 11, splitting the route would mean either same allocation or more buses, definitely need overlaps with through passengers, adding more buses costs more, i read on another forum it can cost something around £100,000 to register one extra bus alone

I don't know the exact figure but my best estimate would be a PVR of 40-45 vehicles for the 11A/C services.

There would need to be some detailed research done in order to determine the best way to split the route, this would have to be done on passenger usage statistics, though whichever way it is done, there are always going to be some passengers who will become inconvenienced.

I also don't know about that figure quoted just to register an extra bus, Tony will be the best person to answer that one, I would imagine it doesn't cost any more to register an extra vehicle for a service, but obviously the cost of operating that service would increase as the number of vehicles required increased.

[Tony]

I don't know the exact figure but my best estimate would be a PVR of 40-45 vehicles for the 11A/C services.

There would need to be some detailed research done in order to determine the best way to split the route, this would have to be done on passenger usage statistics, though whichever way it is done, there are always going to be some passengers who will become inconvenienced.

I also don't know about that figure quoted just to register an extra bus, Tony will be the best person to answer that one, I would imagine it doesn't cost any more to register an extra vehicle for a service, but obviously the cost of operating that service would increase as the number of vehicles required increased.

Yes an extra bus can easily cost over £100,000. One bus out for 15 hours a day 6 days a week needs 2.5 extra drivers employed, Doesn't need much other cost to get into 6 figures.