If you had the chance to modify or add any service, what would you do?

[Justin Tyme]

I don't know how well used the current A4 service is that runs through Dickens Heath, but the fact that it only exists via subsidy from TfWM probably says a lot. Maybe the few bus passengers from there are happy to just travel into Solihull, or change in Shirley for the 6 service to Birmingham.

You're right.  Dickens Heath is an affluent area and not good bus territory.  Few people seem to use the almost new Enviro 200MMCs that Landflight operate on the A4 and A5.  The train, on the other hand, is very popular and Whitlocks End Station car park used to get quite full in pre-Covid times with people driving from Dickens Heath and also Wythall.

Even if there was a market for a direct bus service to Birmingham, the Alcester Road and Stratford Road do not really lend themselves to fast services - which is one reason why the railway is so popular.  The quickest way would probably be to extend the 3 via Green Lane and Haslucks Green Road, although Tythe Barn Lane would need major reconstructing to make is suitable for buses.

[j789]

You're right.  Dickens Heath is an affluent area and not good bus territory.  Few people seem to use the almost new Enviro 200MMCs that Landflight operate on the A4 and A5.  The train, on the other hand, is very popular and Whitlocks End Station car park used to get quite full in pre-Covid times with people driving from Dickens Heath and also Wythall.

Even if there was a market for a direct bus service to Birmingham, the Alcester Road and Stratford Road do not really lend themselves to fast services - which is one reason why the railway is so popular.  The quickest way would probably be to extend the 3 via Green Lane and Haslucks Green Road, although Tythe Barn Lane would need major reconstructing to make is suitable for buses.

The problem with the A4 is the non-sensical 'round the reacon' route it takes. It only really suits old folks who don't mind a longer journey to Solihull, it's certainly not an efficient alternative to the car. It would be better to make the A4 a direct route running Solihull - Dickens Heath - Wythall then terminate at the Maypole. This would be more direct and not have it repeating the same areas more than once.

We my suggestion of the X50, the Wythall and Dickens Heath loop would take around 15-20 minutes max. As this route would also allow for a slight decrease in the normal 50 route frequency, it could make this whole route more feasible as the Maypole to City section could subsidise the new loop part. Hopefully, running a decent frequency of 12-15 minutes would encourage more usage in these areas and eventually not need any subsidising from the rest of the route.

Dickens Heath is certainly affluent but there are areas of social housing and recent development plans suggest up to 2000 new houses be built there in the next few years.These will have to include up to 25% cheaper housing so many more potential passengers would be available. I can understand that any new route is a massive risk and cost outlay initially but I do feel this idea has potential to be successful and tap into a currently non- bus using market.

[Pat]

If i'm honest, I don't really see a need for a direct Birmingham service along the Station Road area and round Whitlocks End, mainly due to the fact that the train is within close proximity.  The Johnsons 150 from Becketts Island is practically an 'express' version of the 50 through Kings Heath & Moseley, as the majority of people let it go past in favour of NX/Diamond.  However, it doesn't really see much usage between the Maypole and the City Centre, only really seeing usage between the Maypole and Redditch.

[Westy]

You're right.  Dickens Heath is an affluent area and not good bus territory.  Few people seem to use the almost new Enviro 200MMCs that Landflight operate on the A4 and A5.  The train, on the other hand, is very popular and Whitlocks End Station car park used to get quite full in pre-Covid times with people driving from Dickens Heath and also Wythall.

Even if there was a market for a direct bus service to Birmingham, the Alcester Road and Stratford Road do not really lend themselves to fast services - which is one reason why the railway is so popular.  The quickest way would probably be to extend the 3 via Green Lane and Haslucks Green Road, although Tythe Barn Lane would need major reconstructing to make is suitable for buses.

Puzzles me why you would design a road NOT to take buses in the first place!

[2206]

Puzzles me why you would design a road NOT to take buses in the first place!

Landflight might have used Tythe Barn Lane on diversion, when Dickens Heath Rd was closed at some point. I'm sure I vaguely remember going up there on a E200 MMC once. I wanted the Campion Way stop and ended up by Tidbury Green Car Garage place as it turned off, without saying onto Tythe Barn Lane and so had a long walk back, this would have been August 13th 2019.

I think it'd be the trees and those trees that would stop the deckers going up and have probably been there for years I expect.

[j789]

Puzzles me why you would design a road NOT to take buses in the first place!

Tythe Barn Lane was originally a country Lane until they built the huge Dickens Heath estate in the late 1990s so wasn't designed for large vehicles. However, it is only really the top end of the road near Whitlocks End station that would need tree pruning as the bottom end where the housing estate is has the capacity for larger vehicles. The road itself is wide enough for buses and two way traffic, even though the speed reduction 'furniture' may need changing for buses with speed ramps rather than the current situation.

[MW]

I recall a number of passengers who would catch the S3W from Dickens Heath to Maypole and then change onto a Diamond 50. I think the X50 idea is decent, however the 12 min frequency is very optimistic. 20 mins at the highest frequency is still optimistic in my opinion. I would tweak the route to serve Shawhurst Lane as per the current A4 though.

On another note, the S3/W seemed far more busier that the A4/A5. A number of passengers from Shirley going to Knowle/Hockley Heath. I've not driven the A4/A5 for around 2 years now so my take isn't the most accurate.

[the trainbasher]

I'd tweak the WN 15 so it went back to every 15, but alternate ones would run via Wordsley as a 15A running Hickman Road, Leys Road, Brierley Hill Road, High Street, Stream Road, rejoining the 15 at the Portway but terminating at Wombourne.
The remaining journeys designated 15 I'd run the full length of Bromley Lane, leaving Tiled House Lane to the 226.

[bususer28]

Whitlocks End station has regular trains to Birmingham, and is only a short distance from Dickens Heath.

One would imagine that commuters from Dickens Heath would either cycle or drive to the station as it is a Park And Ride site.

In principle, I agree that Dickens Heath has Whitlocks End however by the same logic Monkspath and Widney have Widney Manor yet it still has a frequent bus service so I think they're surely has to be something on top.- Maybe now with the CAZ, NX might consider something, at the very least a service to link Dickens Heath to the station.

[Tony]

In principle, I agree that Dickens Heath has Whitlocks End however by the same logic Monkspath and Widney have Widney Manor yet it still has a frequent bus service so I think they're surely has to be something on top.- Maybe now with the CAZ, NX might consider something, at the very least a service to link Dickens Heath to the station.

NX do consider all these estates as seen by the extensions to Lichfield, Cannock & Nuneaton recently.

People from Monkspath area do not come into Birmingham by bus in any numbers to support a service, but the 5 serves lots of other links and just happens to come to Birmingham

[Stu]

In principle, I agree that Dickens Heath has Whitlocks End however by the same logic Monkspath and Widney have Widney Manor yet it still has a frequent bus service so I think they're surely has to be something on top.- Maybe now with the CAZ, NX might consider something, at the very least a service to link Dickens Heath to the station.

But Landflight's A4 service already links Dickens Heath to Whitlocks End station as well as Solihull station. Why would NX also need to provide this service?

[2206]

But Landflight's A4 service already links Dickens Heath to Whitlocks End station as well as Solihull station. Why would NX also need to provide this service?

Beyond Dickens Heath towards Whitlocks End that service is extremely infrequent. When I've caught the train there in the past, I've got to the stop outside Whitlocks End and that timetable has said its not coming for 45-50 minutes. So I've walked it instead.

An hourly service isn't going to be good for many people.
Plus last bus is at 17.30 and first one 8.00, so if you're travelling earlier/later than that again it's no good.

I think a direct service into Birmingham maybe as the 3 or down the Stratford Rd would be even better as then there'd be no need to have to get off and wait for the train.

[j789]

NX do consider all these estates as seen by the extensions to Lichfield, Cannock & Nuneaton recently.

People from Monkspath area do not come into Birmingham by bus in any numbers to support a service, but the 5 serves lots of other links and just happens to come to Birmingham

Do the team working on potential new route opportunities regularly revisit these same areas even after they have been initially ruled out for financial reasons? I only ask because an area may initially not seem very viable but with future developments those areas can then offer more potential for a viable route.

I do think both Wythall and Dickens Heath fall into this category as Wythall has seen several large housing developments completed (including a fair % of social housing) since the 50A route was discontinued. As I mentioned earlier, there are plans in the near future to build upwards of 2000 houses in Dickens Heath and nearby areas which again may mean that a new service may become viable. Say 2500 new houses, that may be another 10000 people living there and even if only 1% of those were potential passengers that's still 100 people who could contribute to a viable service.

[Pat]

Do the team working on potential new route opportunities regularly revisit these same areas even after they have been initially ruled out for financial reasons? I only ask because an area may initially not seem very viable but with future developments those areas can then offer more potential for a viable route.

I do think both Wythall and Dickens Heath fall into this category as Wythall has seen several large housing developments completed (including a fair % of social housing) since the 50A route was discontinued. As I mentioned earlier, there are plans in the near future to build upwards of 2000 houses in Dickens Heath and nearby areas which again may mean that a new service may become viable. Say 2500 new houses, that may be another 10000 people living there and even if only 1% of those were potential passengers that's still 100 people who could contribute to a viable service.

The new estate off Station Road is still within walking distance to the stop at Becketts Island for the 150.  As I said earlier, the 150 doesn't see many through passengers to Birmingham.

[j789]

The new estate off Station Road is still within walking distance to the stop at Becketts Island for the 150.  As I said earlier, the 150 doesn't see many through passengers to Birmingham.

There are three main issues with the 150 in Wythall meaning it is less well used than might otherwise be the case:

1) An hourly frequency is too low to attract potential passengers who have access to a car but may prefer travelling into the city by public transport. I believe the train from Wythall is also only every hour during non peak times so currently public transport there does not offer frequent enough links to Birmingham to be considered as a good alternative to the car. A more frequent service would be more attractive to passengers and increase usage.

2) The route only serves Alcester Road through Wythall, the majority of housing is not on this road, and yes while people can walk to the nearest stop on that road, it's not exactly attractive for potential passengers to have a 10-15 minute walk on top of the bus ride as opposed to using the car. A service looping round Wythall as suggested earlier would be much better (and could replace the A4 route in this area as it is quicker to go to Maypole and then get a 49 to Solihull than get the A4 direct).

3) The operator, who I think do a fine job on the routes they offer, but they lack the brand power and network that NXWM has. As is well known, the NWWM day ticket is very popular and having this offered is far more attractive than a equivalent smaller operators ticket, even if that is the same price. A NXWM route would be far more attractive as passengers would only need one ticket (whether day, week or month) to access a huge network of services, so it wouldn't just be City centre passengers this route would appeal to. As I said, I'm sure far more passengers would catch a NXWM in Wythall and change to a 49 at Maypole to Solihull rather than catch the long looping A4 route.

NXWM have the scale and network attraction to make this work, the same with Dickens Heath too.