Few of these starting to appear on the VOSA site and some look most strange at present particularly the new 20.
From 80 registration. Looks like 80A is going to be renumbered to 80, as the 80A number has gone.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580834/
46 Queen Elizabeth Hospital to Northfield via Kings Norton & Hawkesley.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580825/
And whats happening with the 1A? The number seems to have been removed from the registration?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580814/
Just noticed 1A is being renumbered 41? Is there some sort of change to the route, otherwise seems strange to renumber for no reason at all?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580819/
27 also says Maypole to Cofton Hackett?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580874/
X20 registration changed to 20 QE to Cofton Hackett via Selly Oak, Northfield, Longbridge, Rednal sounds bizzare? Why are they stopping it from going into the City Centre?
Will the X21/X22 be increased in frequency to compensate for loss of journeys from the QE Hospital/University into Town on a major corridor.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580877/
As 20 is not going to City Centre maybe it won't be run by BC and run by YW instead perhaps, interworked with another QE service such as 46?
77 cancelled.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580774/
Another one I've found, but for Coventry instead - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580872/
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580817/
Service 31 listed as cancelled.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580838/
Hamstead 54 listed as cancelled.
A lot of these just seem to be the end of summer timetable changes, probably a bit more than normal thanks to COVID.
Remember that the information put onto VOSA isn't entirely kept up to date.
Quote from: Lukeeee2018 on July 15, 2021, 05:04:05 PM
Another one I've found, but for Coventry instead - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580872/
There is also a significant variation to Coventry service 1
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580868/
Looks like it is extended at both ends possibly to replace the Stagecoach 703 and to reinstate the old DeCourcey 61 between Chapelfields and Arena Park creating a large circular route numbered 29 and 29A? (the 'Radford' on the registration might be incorrect?)
Quote from: 2206 on July 15, 2021, 04:42:14 PM
From 80 registration. Looks like 80A is going to be renumbered to 80, as the 80A number has gone.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580834/
I suspect this will be the 80 & 80A going into the registration for the 80, and Smethwick High Street being converted back to two-way traffic.
Meaning the 80 can serve Blue Gates and Devonshire Road again, and the 89 can revert to serving the entire length of Stoney Lane
Quote from: 2206 on July 15, 2021, 04:42:14 PM
46 Queen Elizabeth Hospital to Northfield via Kings Norton & Hawkesley.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580825/
I can only assume this means the 48 is going to be split in half. I've got to say, I thought this would've happened a lot sooner. Hopefully this will mean an end to the West Bromwich - Harborne short workings
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 15, 2021, 07:21:12 PM
I suspect this will be the 80 & 80A going into the registration for the 80
80 & 80A were on the same registration before anyway. So unless the registration is incorrect or means something else, maybe 80 won't come back?
80A might be renumbered 80 I guess, as 80A is no longer on there, like the 1A no longer being on the 1 registration..
Quote from: 2206 on July 15, 2021, 07:27:58 PM
80 & 80A were on the same registration before anyway. So unless the registration is incorrect, maybe won't come back?
Hopefully it will be back to how it was before the High Street was made one way... 80 serving Devonshire Road, 80A going back to its original frequency and the 89 reverting to its original route. Withdrawing the 80A would leave one part of Smethwick without a bus service, which from as long as I've known has always had a service and is used....
Looks like the 89 may be returning and the 8 and 9 extended to Wolverhampton maybe?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580852/
WN60 withdrawal?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580783/
It does look like there are going to be some significant route changes from this date, but I think it would be prudent for people to not speculate too much as these DVSA* changes don't always paint the full picture, and there may be other changes that haven't been registered yet.
*VOSA (Vehicle and Operator Services Agency) was dissolved in 2014 and merged with the DSA (Driving Standards Agency) to create the new Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) government department.
There hasn't been any VOSA site for seven years now. ;D
Quote from: Stu on July 15, 2021, 08:52:23 PM
It does look like there are going to be some significant route changes from this date, but I think it would be prudent for people to not speculate too much as these DVSA* changes don't always paint the full picture, and there may be other changes that haven't been registered yet.
*VOSA (Vehicle and Operator Services Agency) was dissolved in 2014 and merged with the DSA (Driving Standards Agency) to create the new Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) government department.
There hasn't been any VOSA site for seven years now. ;D
And some of the routes marked as cancelled, TfWM have asked to continue
Would be nice to see WA operate the 89 and have WA buses back in Wolverhampton
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 15, 2021, 07:21:12 PM
I can only assume this means the 48 is going to be split in half. I've got to say, I thought this would've happened a lot sooner. Hopefully this will mean an end to the West Bromwich - Harborne short workings
Yes but currently the 48 terminates in Weoley Castle. So that means the Weoley Castle - Northfield section the 48 currently serves will be dropped again.
1A is going to be 41? and 31 being cancelled? strange should of cancelled the 32 or at least make it replace 31
The '20' baffles me the most. Is there a reliability issue with the X20 or something? As it's not like nobody uses it.
Are people in Pelsall actually missing the through bus to New Cross then?
If this is true, I hope to god it's going to work, for my sister's sake!
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 15, 2021, 10:18:45 PM
The '20' baffles me the most. Is there a reliability issue with the X20 or something? As it's not like nobody uses it.
i agree X20 has good demand but not sure what the combined authority are up to
Quote from: bbs on July 15, 2021, 10:21:28 PM
i agree X20 has good demand but not sure what the combined authority are up to
What's the combined authority got to do with it? X20 I believe is a fully commercial route run by NX.
Quote from: Gareth on July 15, 2021, 10:33:24 PM
What's the combined authority got to do with it? X20 I believe is a fully commercial route run by NX.
X20 not sure really.
The changes in South Bham may be part of a bigger picture? The proposed cross-city routes showed Longbridge and Frankley as being the terminus points on the south side. Perhaps the focus is on putting in place local connecting services prior to moving towards the cross-city phase?
Quote from: bbs on July 15, 2021, 10:09:48 PM
1A is going to be 41? and 31 being cancelled? strange should of cancelled the 32 or at least make it replace 31
31 is only part subsidised, whereas 32 is fully subsidised. The people who pay the subsidy make the decisions. Operators can't just cancel, or change the route.
Quote from: SO6597 on July 15, 2021, 10:46:00 PM
The changes in South Bham may be part of a bigger picture? The proposed cross-city routes showed Longbridge and Frankley as being the terminus points on the south side. Perhaps the focus is on putting in place local connecting services prior to moving towards the cross-city phase?
How does cutting X20 short of the City Centre improve anything though? Surely makes the service less atractive to passengers?
Unless something is still not clear and there are further changes?
Quote from: 2206 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:39 PM
How does cutting X20 short of the City Centre improve anything though? Surely makes the service less atractive to passengers?
Unless something is still not clear and there are further changes?
I'm not surprised that the X20 looks like it is changing. It's heavily used from Bham to Selly Oak but the loadings usually look light once it goes beyond Northfield and the Longbridge - Cofton Hackett section is even quieter. Be interesting to see if it is withdrawn completely or just cut back to somewhere like Selly Oak. The new road layout by the triangle lends itself well to a new terminal point.
Quote from: SO6597 on July 15, 2021, 11:09:35 PM
Be interesting to see if it is withdrawn completely or just cut back to somewhere like Selly Oak. The new road layout by the triangle lends itself well to a new terminal point.
If the X20 journeys were cut back to Selly Oak they'd probably just be renumbered as X21's.
If it is that badly used south of Selly Oak, what would the point of the new commercial 20 be?
Quote from: Pat on July 15, 2021, 10:50:49 PM
31 is only part subsidised, whereas 32 is fully subsidised. The people who pay the subsidy make the decisions. Operators can't just cancel, or change the route.
So what will replace where the 31 went?
Quote from: bbs on July 15, 2021, 11:24:03 PM
So what will replace where the 31 went?
Maybe this 41 will play a part...
Quote from: Tony on July 15, 2021, 08:56:51 PM
And some of the routes marked as cancelled, TfWM have asked to continue
On a commercial basis I presume ?
Or an extension to 58 as it interworks anyway?
Quote from: Jack D on July 16, 2021, 01:31:18 PM
Or an extension to 58 as it interworks anyway?
i dont think 58 will come acocks green and go via shirley to solihull
Quote from: bbs on July 16, 2021, 03:38:36 PM
i dont think 58 will come acocks green and go via shirley to solihull
Ah, I remember when the 71 used to do Acocks Green to Sutton Coldfield via Solihull and Chelmsley Wood.
That's now basically the
71 Sutton Coldfield to Chelmsley Wood
72 Chelmsley Wood to Solihull
A12 Solihull to Acocks Green.
Riding the Lynxs on that full route was always fun.
I didn't know the 71 used to do Acocks Green to Solihull, so that is interesting!
Maybe extend some 72s or 73s? Make crew changing simpler perhaps?
The 58 does have a variation starting 29th august on VOSA
I believe the variation is for the opposite end of the route not the solihull side
Quote from: ellspurs on July 16, 2021, 04:06:23 PM
Ah, I remember when the 71 used to do Acocks Green to Sutton Coldfield via Solihull and Chelmsley Wood.
That's now basically the
71 Sutton Coldfield to Chelmsley Wood
72 Chelmsley Wood to Solihull
A12 Solihull to Acocks Green.
Riding the Lynx's on that full route was always fun.
Oh the Acocks green 71 that was such a good route sadly was shortened and shortened by more
@Steveminor whats the variation?
Quote from: Steveminor on July 16, 2021, 08:12:16 PM
I believe the variation is for the opposite end of the route not the solihull side
Yes - some surprising changes !
Quote from: Jack D on July 16, 2021, 09:48:34 PM
@Steveminor whats the variation?
That's for
@Tony to reveal if he wishes.
Some very interesting changes coming up. From Claribels too as I put the finishing touches to some of my own route changes. (Dont ask no clues given)
Quote from: Steveminor on July 16, 2021, 10:56:09 PM
That's for @Tony to reveal if he wishes.
Some very interesting changes coming up. From Claribels too as I put the finishing touches to some of my own route changes. (Dont ask no clues given)
Would be nice to extend the 36 to Ward end and include coventry road shops.
Quote from: bbs on July 16, 2021, 11:09:53 PM
Would be nice to extend the 36 to Ward end and include coventry road shops.
It used to do that years ago when NX were operating it; terminated outside the Aldi.
Let the speculation run wild:
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581090/
Service 55 cancelled from 29 August.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581087/
Services 94/95 variation from 29 August, showing via Shard End and Kingshurst.
55 being renumbered to 95 to match Chelmsley Wood terminating services, possibly?
Is there anything else for Walsall, apart from the 31 / 32 changes & possibly / alledgley the reintroduction of the 89 / withdrawal of the 60?
Quote from: ellspurs on July 17, 2021, 06:43:55 AM
Let the speculation run wild:
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581090/
Service 55 cancelled from 29 August.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581087/
Services 94/95 variation from 29 August, showing via Shard End and Kingshurst.
55 being renumbered to 95 to match Chelmsley Wood terminating services, possibly?
About time if is .An up grade with branding too never lol
It will be a sad day if and when the 55 is renumbered. A part of our network (with a few route changes along the way) since October 1950.
Quote from: Westy on July 17, 2021, 08:19:51 AM
Is there anything else for Walsall, apart from the 31 / 32 changes & possibly / alledgley the reintroduction of the 89 / withdrawal of the 60?
It also says that there is a variation for the WA41.
Quote from: Gareth on July 17, 2021, 10:03:34 AM
It will be a sad day if and when the 55 is renumbered. A part of our network (with a few route changes along the way) since October 1950.
Not really, it's a completely different route now, the 55 never used to serve Ward End, Washwood Heath or Yorks Wood and it used to serve Brook Meadow Road and the other side of Shard End Crescent.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 17, 2021, 09:50:14 AM
About time if is .An up grade with branding too never lol
Wouldn't it make sense to make both number and route changes at the same time ?? Ie delay the route change
It looks like all the route changes etc., are coinciding with the restart of the school term. There are cancellations listed for the X2S, 94S, 97S and X70S, as well as a variation listed for the 96.
There may have been a request to resume the services on Stechford Road before then, or it had been delayed from an earlier change due to COVID (as people reported the junction reconfigured a while ago), possibly a correction of the expired variation 36 from the change in variation 33: https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/22
EDIT: added bustimes link to variations.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 17, 2021, 09:50:14 AM
About time if is .An up grade with branding too never lol
Both routes regularly see Enviro 400s and the odd platinum/standard MMC ???. What more do you want
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 17, 2021, 01:12:56 PM
Both routes regularly see Enviro 400s and the odd platinum/standard MMC ???. What more do you want
The 55/94 between them see any bus type. Tridents, Gemini, 09/61/13 plate E400, odd Crimson E400 MMC, odd Paltinum E400 MMC and even an odd Omnicity.
Would be nice to see some 94/95 branded buses like the 23/24, etc ones. Wonder if they will still be run by both PB & BC or if that will be changing?
Quote from: ellspurs on July 17, 2021, 11:37:48 AM
There are cancellations listed for the X2S
Will the school journey extensions cease or will some still operate as X2 under the main timetable like the 07:53?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 17, 2021, 11:10:45 AM
Not really, it's a completely different route now, the 55 never used to serve Ward End, Washwood Heath or Yorks Wood and it used to serve Brook Meadow Road and the other side of Shard End Crescent.
The 55 in Yorks Wood has changed a lot in the last 10 years following the withdrawals of the 54 and then the 55A, 56 and 59...
Quote from: Jack on July 17, 2021, 04:42:26 PM
The 55 in Yorks Wood has changed a lot in the last 10 years following the withdrawals of the 54 and then the 55A, 56 and 59...
The current 55 seems to be an amalgamation of the 55 and 92 from the mid-90s.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 17, 2021, 11:33:59 AM
Wouldn't it make sense to make both number and route changes at the same time ?? Ie delay the route change
The 55 was always going to revert back to its original route once those roadworks were complete, I don't see the point in delaying that change any longer.
If as has been suggested that there are going to be changes to the 58 at that end of the route, the new 95 route may also have a route change in the Shard End / Kingshurst area, just speculation of course as I don't know any more than anyone else here.
Quote from: 2206 on July 17, 2021, 01:55:34 PM
Will the school journey extensions cease or will some still operate as X2 under the main timetable like the 07:53?
The X2S is showing as cancelled, and there is no variation registered for the X2, so that should answer your question.
There is a school service 877 from Yardley Swan to St Peters and Tudor Grange, as school services are now available to the public again, I guess there is no need for this X2S.
Quote from: Stu on July 17, 2021, 05:04:52 PM
The X2S is showing as cancelled, and there is no variation registered for the X2, so that should answer your question.
There is a school service 877 from Yardley Swan to St Peters and Tudor Grange, as school services are now available to the public again, I guess there is no need for this X2S.
Not what I meant, I meant will the 07:53 X2 from City Centre to St Peters still run. It runs as X2 but continues past solihull swimming baths, instead of going into the station.
The second X2S in the morning was basically a duplicate of the 07:53 (which was normally rammed full) and started at the Swan at 08:09, it always picked up members of the public who couldn't get on the 07:53 including woman with a pushchair and I caught it myself, so no idea what the S was about. Except when 2153 was put on there.
The 877 runs about 20 minutes earlier I think.
Quote from: 2206 on July 17, 2021, 05:06:24 PM
Not what I meant, I meant will the 07:53 X2 to St Peters still run. It runs as X2 but continues past solihull swimming baths, instead of going into the station.
The second X2S in the morning was basically a duplicate of the 07:53 (which was normally rammed full), it always picked up members of the public who couldn't get on the 07:53 including woman with a pushchair and I caught it myself, so no idea what the S was about. Except when 2153 was put on there.
If it was under the original timetable then we haven't seen a variation listed for the X2 yet so it should still be running. The duplicate X2S is what they have withdrew.
Quote from: Stu on July 17, 2021, 04:56:39 PM
The 55 was always going to revert back to its original route once those roadworks were complete, I don't see the point in delaying that change any longer.
If as has been suggested that there are going to be changes to the 58 at that end of the route, the new 95 route may also have a route change in the Shard End / Kingshurst area, just speculation of course as I don't know any more than anyone else here.
Speculation but why not it passes the time, I'm wondering if the 58 will rerouted to serve yorkswood / pithall rd , extended to c wood and the 55 will be made more direct in shard end.
NX going against the 4H
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580878/
Quote from: metrocity on July 17, 2021, 06:15:01 PM
NX going against the 4H
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580878/
Upping the 4H frequency?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 17, 2021, 05:41:08 PM
Speculation but why not it passes the time, I'm wondering if the 58 will rerouted to serve yorkswood / pithall rd , extended to c wood and the 55 will be made more direct in shard end.
I don't mind a bit of harmless speculation, its just when people start making assumptions and coming to conclusions based on vague or scant information that it becomes a problem.
There's going to be some change to the 58, and the 55 is going to be replaced by some new 95 service, that much is for sure. People 'in the know' like Tony and Steve will know the full details, but can't share them in public for obvious reasons, so the rest of us - myself included - will have to wait for offical announcements and details to be published.
Quote from: Stu on July 17, 2021, 07:13:23 PM
I don't mind a bit of harmless speculation, its just when people start making assumptions and coming to conclusions based on vague or scant information that it becomes a problem.
There's going to be some change to the 58, and the 55 is going to be replaced by some new 95 service, that much is for sure. People 'in the know' like Tony and Steve will know the full details, but can't share them in public for obvious reasons, so the rest of us - myself included - will have to wait for offical announcements and details to be published.
Why does it always have to be a big secret, we had all this with the 2017 South Birmingham review. It's just bus changes, it's not national security so why ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 17, 2021, 07:30:57 PM
Why does it always have to be a big secret, we had all this with the 2017 South Birmingham review. It's just bus changes, it's not national security so why ?
Nothing is official and going to happen until its announced on nxbus website. I think things are kept a secret and not told till its official is because it may confuse people and information about the changes could change
'Tis interesting that the variation listed (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580880/) for the 120/12/12A states that its going to be hail and ride.
And the Walsall 10A has been removed (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/580939/) from the 10.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 17, 2021, 05:41:08 PM
Speculation but why not it passes the time, I'm wondering if the 58 will rerouted to serve yorkswood / pithall rd , extended to c wood and the 55 will be made more direct in shard end.
The 58 is being rerouted in Shard End
Quote from: SN65 OMC on July 17, 2021, 07:42:22 PM
Nothing is official and going to happen until its announced on nxbus website. I think things are kept a secret and not told till its official is because it may confuse people and information about the changes could change
I'm sorry but that carries no weight whatsoever.
I'm hoping it's like the changes to the 27/49/76 last year which were announced officially at least 2-3 weeks before.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 17, 2021, 07:30:57 PM
Why does it always have to be a big secret, we had all this with the 2017 South Birmingham review. It's just bus changes, it's not national security so why ?
Only reason I haven't answered is I don't know. I haven't bothered to ask. All I need to know for my job is what the PVRs at each garage will be or if any specific vehicle types are needed so I just find out route changes with everyone else most times.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 17, 2021, 07:30:57 PM
Why does it always have to be a big secret, we had all this with the 2017 South Birmingham review. It's just bus changes, it's not national security so why ?
I'm glad you mention this, because it was something that occurred to me that I was going to bring up.
With a number of big changes impending at the end of August 2021, it would seem to me that the age of 'consulting with the public' is now over, as I don't recall any public consultation on service changes being announced at all this year.
With previous reviews that took place in the last few years, at least we (the travelling public) had some kind of 'forewarning' and were allowed an opportunity to submit comments and thoughts on the 'proposed' changes due to take effect.
Whether people made the effort to take part and contribute during these consultations is another matter.
The resulting changes may ultimately prove to be of benefit to passengers, but it is the lack of consultation with said passengers that I do admittedly find a little disturbing.
I image most of the changes will be commercially driven with the books messed up during Covid. The same with most businesses. I can't see how they will have robust data if people travelling habits have completely changed over the past 18 mths. Also who knows what is going to happen moving forward?
These South Birmingham changes seem to feel a lot more like the network pre the changes whatever year they happened. An effective return of the 98, two services going to Cofton, Leach Green Lane back on the cards (I assume) and the 84 but more often and merged with the old 27.
Quote from: bususer28 on July 17, 2021, 08:21:28 PM
An effective return of the 98
Not really. Its being split into 2?
98 always went into City Centre like the X20.
And what does it mean for the frequency as well between City and QE/Uni. They could have kept it going into City Centre even at a reduced 30 min frequency surely (and increase the X21/X22's), rather than split into 2.
The 98 used to take an hour to make the journey from Sheldon to Asda, Hay Mills via the Wrekin :(
Quote from: ellspurs on July 17, 2021, 08:25:25 PM
The 98 used to take an hour to make the journey from Sheldon to Asda, Hay Mills via the Wrekin :(
I think the south Brum 98 was before the east Brum one.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 17, 2021, 08:29:11 PM
I think the south Brum 98 was before the east Brum one.
What, before 1992?
Or, if you are old like me the 98 is Birmingham to Pheasey Limited Stop
Quote from: 2206 on July 17, 2021, 08:22:33 PM
Not really. Its being split into 2?
98 always went into City Centre like the X20.
And what does it mean for the frequency as well between City and QE/Uni. They could have kept it going into City Centre even at a reduced 30 min frequency surely (and increase the X21/X22's), rather than split into 2.
It's a strange one alright. When was the last time Rednal had no direct link to the City Centre?
Quote from: 2206 on July 17, 2021, 08:22:33 PM
Not really. Its being split into 2?
98 always went into City Centre like the X20.
And what does it mean for the frequency as well between City and QE/Uni. They could have kept it going into City Centre even at a reduced 30 min frequency surely (and increase the X21/X22's), rather than split into 2.
I presume the CAZ makes operators think twice now about running routes in the City Centre
Quote from: metrocity on July 17, 2021, 08:41:15 PM
I presume the CAZ makes operators think twice now about running routes in the City Centre
They'd have enough compliant buses surely, as the ones they currently use are compliant BC currently use the platinum buses on there and the entire fleet there is.
And 20 extra compliant into service in the next few months .
Quote from: 2206 on July 17, 2021, 08:22:33 PM
Not really. Its being split into 2?
98 always went into City Centre like the X20.
And what does it mean for the frequency as well between City and QE/Uni. They could have kept it going into City Centre even at a reduced 30 min frequency surely (and increase the X21/X22's), rather than split into 2.
Like I've said, at this point, there is an absence of 'full facts'. It does appear that something is going to happen with the X20, but what we don't yet know is other changes that could happen as a result of this.
Calm down, sit tight, and all will be revealed in due course.
Quote from: Tony on July 17, 2021, 08:39:05 PM
Or, if you are old like me the 98 is Birmingham to Pheasey Limited Stop
Then there was 98 City (Bull Ring Bus Station) - Marston Green via Cattell Road, Lea Hall Station and Chelmsley Wood which was part of LINKWAY in November 1976
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 17, 2021, 08:39:47 PM
It's a strange one alright. When was the last time Rednal had no direct link to the City Centre?
Well the 62 was direct instead of the 98/X20 which have snaked round the QE and Edgbaston and thus increasing journey times and late running. I remember the 61, 62 and 63 all worked well, makes me wonder why bring out routes like the X62 and the infamous X64 to replace things that worked well, even the 21 was a popular service...
Quote from: Stu on July 17, 2021, 08:45:02 PM
Calm down, sit tight, and all will be revealed in due course.
I'm sure thats when the South Brum users were saying in 2018 when there services were changed with no more than a few weeks notice... The fact is that the 55 is to have separate changes in no more than 4-6 weeks is silly (imagine the amount of timetables being changed, deforestation?) why not just wait till the stupid idea to renumber it, the 55 has been around for years, pretty sure it was to fit in with Kingshurst/Shard End (not Washwood Heath/Ward End) services...
58 extended to shared end isnt a bad idea
Quote from: bbs on July 17, 2021, 09:34:50 PM
58 extended to shared end isnt a bad idea
It's not being extended? Its being rerouted, if it was extended it wouldn't be serving the Kingshurst terminus, unless it was completely rerouted around there.
Quote from: Stu on July 17, 2021, 08:45:02 PM
Like I've said, at this point, there is an absence of 'full facts'. It does appear that something is going to happen with the X20, but what we don't yet know is other changes that could happen as a result of this.
Calm down, sit tight, and all will be revealed in due course.
I'm much more interested in reading in a sight speculation and arm chair insight than what bus was on the 97 last week, so keep it up peeps. Will be very interesting to see if is changes across whole network etc.
Quote from: Jack on July 17, 2021, 09:16:37 PM
Well the 62 was direct instead of the 98/X20 which have snaked round the QE and Edgbaston and thus increasing journey times and late running.
There are a lot of hospital patients/staff and university staff/students who use it on that route anyway, making it more viable, so I presume thats why they go that way. Better bus priority measures would be the answer if its reliability thats the problem I think, not splitting routes in 2. They did build the bus gate on George Road as an example of service improvement.
Would it be much quicker going via Bristol Road anyway?
Quote from: Jack on July 17, 2021, 09:16:37 PM
the 55 has been around for years, pretty sure it was to fit in with Kingshurst/Shard End (not Washwood Heath/Ward End) services...
Not really a stupid idea to renumebr the 55 either. Why do you think it needs to fit in with the 58 when, it has nothing in common with it, thats the only 5X service about these days on this side of the city I can think of.
Makes sense for it to fit in with the 94 in Washwood Heath/Ward End, which makes up a large bulk of passengers and shares a large portion of its route with should have been done ages ago I think.
Quote from: 2206 on July 17, 2021, 10:47:23 PM
Not really a stupid idea to renumebr the 55 either. Why do you think it needs to fit in with the 58 when, it has nothing in common with it.
Makes sense for it to fit in with the 94 in Washwood Heath/Ward End, which makes up a large bulk of passengers and shares a large portion of its route with should have been done ages ago I think.
It's pointless, when the 72 was running to Birmingham alongside most of the 94 it was never renumbered to 92 was it? Theres nothing wrong with the numbers, people understand them and everyone gets from where they need to be... in your logic you may as well pointlessly renumber the other Saltley service... the 14. Oh it doesn't have much in common when the 55 and 58 run through the same areas... also in your logic the 71 should of been renumbered to 'fit in' with the other Kingshurst services... theres also the 53 through Shard End...
Washwood Heath Road has had 54, 55/A, 56, 72, 90 and 94 and in short distance away is the 14 and also there was a 26, and no one has ever been confused by them not being all in the same set... Never heard you complaining when there was more services along there than just the 55 and 94...
You clearly don't use the 55 past Ward End, half of the route is followed by the 94 not a large bulk, the 55 is a very popular service past the Fox and Goose, and if anything can be just as busy as the City to Ward End section, whereas the 94 past the Fox and Goose seems to drop in passengers in general...
One welcome change would be Claribels to come back onto the 55...
Quote from: Jack on July 17, 2021, 11:02:08 PM
It's pointless, when the 72 was running to Birmingham alongside most of the 94 it was never renumbered to 92 was it? Theres nothing wrong with the numbers, people understand them and everyone gets from where they need to be... in your logic you may as well pointlessly renumber the other Saltley service... the 14. Oh it doesn't have much in common when the 55 and 58 run through the same areas... also in your logic the 71 should of been renumbered to 'fit in' with the other Kingshurst services...
Washwood Heath Road has had 54, 55/A, 56, 72, 90 and 94 and in short distance away is the 14 and also there was a 26, and no one has ever been confused by them not being all in the same set...
You clearly don't use the 55 past Ward End, half of the route is followed by the 94 not a large bulk, the 55 is a very popular service past the Fox and Goose, and if anything can be just as busy as the City to Ward End section, whereas the 94 past the Fox and Goose seems to drop in passengers in general...
One welcome change would be Claribels to come back onto the 55...
I'm not sure what your point is none of the routes you mention even exist anymore, the 90, 72?
But it makes sense for it to be 94/95, which both run to Ward End/Washwood Heath which is a busy section and half the route. I'm not saying the 55 isn't busy beyond there though. The 55 has a joint frequency with the 94 as well on that section.
The 14 doesn't need to be renumbered when that goes to Alum Rock/Glebe Farm/Kitts Green does it and the 58 goes to Yardley and Solihull not Ward End and City so again has nothing to do with it.
Neither is there need for Claribels to come back on the 55. When there are double deckers running on this service.
Its what they've done in other areas 23/24 to Harborne, X20/X21/X22 to QE/Uni, X3/X4/X5 to Sutton and makes sense I think.
Quote from: 2206 on July 17, 2021, 11:04:31 PM
I'm not sure what your point is none of the routes you mention even exist anymore.
It is but it makes sense for it to be 55/94 which both run to Ward End/Washwood Heath which is a busy section. I'm not saying the 55 isn't busy beyond there though.
The 14 doesn't need to be renumbered when that goes to Alum Rock/Glebe Farm does it.
Its not exactly hard what I said, my point was Washwood Heath has had a range of numbers over the years and theres never been any confusion or need to pointlessly renumber them... If thats your opinion we may as well renumber pointlessly the 33 and 51 because they follow each other between Perry Barr and Birmingham which are busy sections of those routes and the numbers don't match, but further along the routes theres a reason why they fit in... Oh but the 14 goes to Chelmsley where for some reason every number must start with a '9_' digit...
Since you've edited your post... yes the 14 goes through those areas and also crosses the 17 at Tile Cross, and they use to when they both went to Marston Green... Yes the 58 has something to do with the 55... you may want to realise that the services that have operated through Shard End and Kingshurst have started in a '5' digit apart from the 71... Birchfield Road has had a mixed corridor back in the day like Washwood Heath Road: 33, 34, 51, 52, 56, 107...
To make it clear, if the 55 is going to 95 then may aswell change the 33 to 53 in that logic... because they have a joint frequency and follow each other on the busy sections of the route ::)
Quote from: Jack on July 17, 2021, 11:08:34 PM
Since you've edited your post... yes the 14 goes through those areas and also crosses the 17 at Tile Cross, and they use to when they both went to Marston Green... Yes the 58 has something to do with the 55... you may want to realise that the services that have operated through Shard End and Kingshurst have started in a '5' digit apart from the 71... Birchfield Road has had a mixed corridor back in the day like Washwood Heath Road: 33, 34, 51, 52, 56, 107...
To make it clear, if the 55 is going to 95 then may aswell change the 33 to 53 in that logic...
Is there any particular reason why you think the services that serve Kingshurst & Shard End need to start with a 5? It may be historicly, but things change over time.
The 33 is probably to fit in with the 93X services north of Perry Barr so they'd probably want to change the whole set if they renumbered it.
Quote from: 2206 on July 17, 2021, 11:18:04 PM
Is there any paticular reason why you think the services that serve Kingshurst & Shard End need to start with a 5? It may be historicly, but times change.
The 33 is probably to fit in with the 93X services north of Perry Barr so they'd probably want to change the whole set if they renumbered it.
Its not what I think, its quite clear thats what has always been used for those areas and routes... Yes they may be but originally there was just the 33 and the 934, the rest was the 99* services until they was all changed again... Are you going to tell me that the X12 and X70 need to be more simple because they follow each other and have a joint frequency ::)
Quote from: Jack on July 17, 2021, 11:21:05 PM
Its not what I think, its quite clear thats what has always been used for those areas and routes... Yes they may be but originally there was just the 33 and the 934, the rest was the 99* services until they was all changed again... Are you going to tell me that the X12 and X70 need to be more simple because they follow each other and have a joint frequency ::)
I though they should have chosen better route numbers when they first introduced them. I understand X70 as it was 70 before, but not sure where X12 came from.
It should be the X90/X91 I think.
Quote from: 2206 on July 17, 2021, 11:23:05 PM
I though they should have chosen better route numbers when they first introduced them. I understand X70 as it was 70 before, but not sure where X12 came from.
It should be the X90/X91 I think.
Those quirks are what makes things unique... if anything the 70 should of went back to 90 when they cut it back to its old route and then X90...
Quote from: 2206 on July 17, 2021, 11:04:31 PM
I'm not sure what your point is none of the routes you mention even exist anymore, the 90, 72?
But it makes sense for it to be 94/95, which both run to Ward End/Washwood Heath which is a busy section and half the route. I'm not saying the 55 isn't busy beyond there though. The 55 has a joint frequency with the 94 as well on that section.
The 14 doesn't need to be renumbered when that goes to Alum Rock/Glebe Farm/Kitts Green does it and the 58 goes to Yardley and Solihull not Ward End and City so again has nothing to do with it.
Neither is there need for Claribels to come back on the 55. When there are double deckers running on this service.
Its what they've done in other areas 23/24 to Harborne, X20/X21/X22 to QE/Uni, X3/X4/X5 to Sutton and makes sense I think.
I think AG still has a 72 might be on about that one
The 72 is the main route between Solihull and Chelmsley Wood, running at "frequent intervals". Lots of love for North Solihull services over here.
It's actually faster than the X12 as well. 36 minutes in afternoon peak (X12 is 46 minutes for the same 5pm ish departure from Chelmsley to Solihull).
I did have a whole thing typed up ages ago where I showed that all the Chelmsley Wood services could be fitted into the "90-99" series of numbers if we wanted things to be all nice and tidy. I went through my posts but couldn't find it so it must've been one of those ones where I typed it up and then deleted it.
Quote from: Jack on July 17, 2021, 09:16:37 PM
the 55 has been around for years, pretty sure it was to fit in with Kingshurst/Shard End (not Washwood Heath/Ward End) services...
It was number 55 because it was just the next available number to use. 8 and 10 trams withdrawn 1950 and became 55 and 56. Trolleybus replacements in 1951 became 57/8/9/60. Bristol Road Tram replacement in 1952 became 61/2/3. Then Erdington/Tyburn tram replacements in 1953 became 64/5/6/7
Quote from: Gareth on July 18, 2021, 10:36:31 AM
It was number 55 because it was just the next available number to use. 8 and 10 trams withdrawn 1950 and became 55 and 56. Trolleybus replacements in 1951 became 57/8/9/60. Bristol Road Tram replacement in 1952 became 61/2/3. Then Erdington/Tyburn tram replacements in 1953 became 64/5/6/7
Importantly, the 55 and 56 were BCT routes (Washwood Heath depot), along with 53 and 54 along the Meadway corridor (those were Coventry Road depot routes). However BCT never ran across the boundary to Chelmsley Wood (despite Midland Red apparently offering a joint operation - perhaps like Dudley Road. The Chelmsley services were run by Midland Red (variously 193,4,7 along with 160/1 (Kingshurst circular) and 168 (Bacons End)). They ran along the old A47 (Washwood Heath Road) or Meadway/part of Coventry Road corridors. WMPTE took over the MR services in Dec 73 and within a couple of years harmonised the service provision on those corridors (one of the biggest such operations) - subsequent routes being 93/94 (notice the similarity) and 97. BCT's 14 and 55 were retained but extended and remain to this day as the Alum Rock/Glebe Farm and Shard End estate corridors.
There's something to be said for retaining historic route numbers, as long as they don't depart too far from traditional haunts - I couldn't imagine the 14 and 55 as anything else!!
Quote from: don on July 18, 2021, 11:29:06 AM
There's something to be said for retaining historic route numbers, as long as they don't depart too far from traditional haunts - I couldn't imagine the 14 and 55 as anything else!!
55 used to run along Alum Rock Road like 14, now runs with the 94 on a joint frequency in Ward End/Washwood Heath instead. Claribels changed the route later than NXWM.
One thing that was a bit unique, one of the Fox & Goose trident routes used turn right off Nechells Parkway and go through Great Lister Street over 10 years back instead of going straight on with the 94. Might have been 56? Don't see double deckers going that way anymore.
Quote from: 2206 on July 18, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
55 used to run along Alum Rock Road like 14, now stregthens the 94 frequency in Ward End/Washwood Heath instead. Claribels changed the route later than NXWM.
One thing that was a bit unique, one of the Fox & Goose trident routes used turn right off Nechells Parkway and go through Great Lister Street over 10 years back instead of going straight on with the 94. Might have been 56? Don't see double deckers going that way anymore.
All the 14/90/92/93/94/95 and other services used to go up Great Lister Street and through Aston University. I don't remember any service actually going up Jennens Road to Birmingham during that time. I remember the 55 going through Duddeston, unsure whether the 26 followed that route as well.
The road they used through Aston University got pedestrianised so they ended up going direct. I remember the 14 being the last one to go up there (and through the way the 66 does now), until it got changed over to doing what the 26 used to do past Millennium Point.
Quote from: ellspurs on July 18, 2021, 12:08:10 PM
I remember the 14 being the last one to go up there (and through the way the 66 does now)
& 56 I think. While the 94, etc used Jennens Road.
Strange route that, it ran evenings and sundays only. And originally early mornings I think. So only quietest times of the week, not surprising its not about anymore. It might be the way centro specified for it to go, or something.
Quote from: 2206 on July 18, 2021, 12:12:41 PM
& 56 I think.
Strange route that, it ran evenings and sundays only. And originally early mornings I think. So only quietest times of the week, not surprising its not about anymore. It might be the way centro specified for it to go, or something.
Well the 66 provides the need for that area to the city centre. Back in the 90s, I'm sure Jennens Road was just a slip road connecting the ring road through to the concrete roundabout that used to be there. Made more sense to go through the university.
Quote from: ellspurs on July 18, 2021, 12:20:35 PM
Well the 66 provides the need for that area to the city centre. Back in the 90s, I'm sure Jennens Road was just a slip road connecting the ring road through to the concrete roundabout that used to be there. Made more sense to go through the university.
They moved onto Jennens Road some point during the mid 2000's, there's videos on Youtube of them all going through the old route back in 2002. The 14/14A were going through that way the 66/66A was also doing that route which is still does, it use to be a bus only lane to do the right turn onto Jennens Road which that junction has completely changed now into a crossroads junction with traffic lights.
The 26 (pretty sure) and 55 also went through that way they all used to prior to them running along Jennens Road (Curzon Street for the 26...)
Quote from: Jack on July 18, 2021, 02:10:26 PM
They moved onto Jennens Road some point during the mid 2000's, there's videos on Youtube of them all going through the old route back in 2002. The 14/14A were going through that way the 66/66A was also doing that route which is still does, it use to be a bus only lane to do the right turn onto Jennens Road which that junction has completely changed now into a crossroads junction with traffic lights.
The 26 (pretty sure) and 55 also went through that way they all used to prior to them running along Jennens Road (Curzon Street for the 26...)
The 55 originally went via Vauxhall Road and Duddeston, the 26 went via Jennens Road. Both were swapped around in around 1995ish to make the 55 quicker due to Claribels 55 going via Jennens Road.
Perhaps the 58 will go via yorkswood, then take the old 55A route towards kingshurst and Chelmsley and the 95 will take the 58 route towards Chelmsley
Quote from: Jack D on July 18, 2021, 07:38:29 PM
Perhaps the 58 will go via yorkswood, then take the old 55A route towards kingshurst and Chelmsley and the 95 will take the 58 route towards Chelmsley
That does make a bit of sense. The main issue would be Rowington Road/Longmeadow Crescent losing its link to the City Centre that it has had for ages.
Then 95 go via 96 towards cHelmsley 96 and 71 go through kings hurst to keep that frequency through kings hurst
Quote from: Jack D on July 18, 2021, 08:45:59 PM
Then 95 go via 96 towards cHelmsley 96 and 71 go through kings hurst to keep that frequency through kings hurst
And Kingshurst will lose its bus to the City Centre, nice one...
Quote from: Jack D on July 18, 2021, 08:45:59 PM
Then 95 go via 96 towards cHelmsley 96 and 71 go through kings hurst to keep that frequency through kings hurst
Quote from: Jack on July 18, 2021, 08:50:42 PM
And Kingshurst will lose its bus to the City Centre, nice one...
If that were to happen I'll send you all the pamphlets that'll get shoved through my door from the Green Councilors moaning about it, like when it happened in 2017!
Quote from: ellspurs on July 18, 2021, 08:55:25 PM
If that were to happen I'll send you all the pamphlets that'll get shoved through my door from the Green Councilors moaning about it, like when it happened in 2017!
Never lost the City Centre 55 round there in 2017 though.
Though thinking about when was the last time Kendrick Avenue never had a city centre bus. I'm sure 54, 55A, 56, 59, etc all went that way?
56 and 59 went up to Morrison's turned right at the lights.
Quote from: Jack D on July 18, 2021, 09:58:39 PM
56 and 59 went up to Morrison's turned right at the lights.
The 59 followed the same route as the 56 through Yorks Wood, the 54's route was Pithall Road, Kendrick Avenue, Longmeadow Crescent and onto Hurst Lane. I'm pretty sure when the 54 went the one section of Longmeadow Crescent (that still presently doesn't have anything serve it) the 55 also served this section until March 2011 when the 55 changed to serve its current section of Longmeadow, leaving that section without a service until the 55A was introduced. They both did different routes after Buckland End, the 55 going onto Brook Meadow Road (which the 53 serves) and the 54 serving the Heath Way (current 55 route). The 55 has been chopped and changed loads through Yorks Wood over the years but I know that Freasley Road hasn't always had the 55 serving it only since March 2011, prior to that I think it was the 56 and another service (89?).
The 55 has always been chopped and changed from my understanding, like the 14 (14A too) and wasn't there a 14B as well?
96 has got a variation to any ideas what this could be?
Quote from: Jack D on July 19, 2021, 10:02:10 AM
96 has got a variation to any ideas what this could be?
Lots of services have variations from the same date. Apart from 'those in the know' who can't say yet for obvious reasons, no-one else here knows for certain.
BC 24 appearing as cancelled on every page on the site
Quote from: bbs on July 20, 2021, 11:23:59 AM
BC 24 appearing as cancelled on every page on the site
That's an old one isn't it? It got added to the 23 registration.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 20, 2021, 11:37:40 AM
That's an old one isn't it? It got added to the 23 registration.
Im not sure
PD0001111/677 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Highfields School to Wolverhampton
Service number: 712 (2S)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/44 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Wolverhampton to Dudley via Woodcross, Coseley, Wrens Nest
Service number: 81 (81)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/783 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Wolverhampton to Bloxwich to Wolverhampton to Bloxwich via Bentley Bridge, Wednesfield, New Invention
Service number: 60 (60)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/834 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Wolverhampton to Dudley
Service number: 1S (1S)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/48 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Sutton Coldfield to Walsall to Sutton Coldfield to Walsall via New Oscott, Streetly, Barr Beacon
Service number: 77 (77, 77A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/547 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Dudley to Kingswinford, Manor Park via Russells Hall Hospital
Service number: 205 (5, 5A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/547 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Dudley to Kingswinford, Manor Park via Russells Hall Hospital
Service number: 205 (5, 5A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
That's interesting, I wonder if an X10 (maybe x11?) Will be extended to kingswinford with an once an hour no 2 covering the Russell's Hall to Dudley bit
Quote from: gc802002 on July 20, 2021, 03:50:17 PM
PD0001111/677 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Highfields School to Wolverhampton
Service number: 712 (2S)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/44 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Wolverhampton to Dudley via Woodcross, Coseley, Wrens Nest
Service number: 81 (81)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/783 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Wolverhampton to Bloxwich to Wolverhampton to Bloxwich via Bentley Bridge, Wednesfield, New Invention
Service number: 60 (60)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/834 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Wolverhampton to Dudley
Service number: 1S (1S)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/48 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Sutton Coldfield to Walsall to Sutton Coldfield to Walsall via New Oscott, Streetly, Barr Beacon
Service number: 77 (77, 77A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
PD0001111/547 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Dudley to Kingswinford, Manor Park via Russells Hall Hospital
Service number: 205 (5, 5A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 29 Aug 2021
The 60 has been discussed already, but the 77 is intriguing!
Quote from: Westy on July 20, 2021, 05:33:17 PM
The 60 has been discussed already, but the 77 is intriguing!
I reckon a Brum x route will cover it . Didn't they do that about 15 years ago 996 or something similar
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 20, 2021, 06:53:06 PM
I reckon a Brum x route will cover it . Didn't they do that about 15 years ago 996 or something similar
913 I remember going to New Oscott and Streetly, don't think it went through to Walsall though.
Quote from: bbs on July 20, 2021, 11:23:59 AM
BC 24 appearing as cancelled on every page on the site
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 20, 2021, 11:37:40 AM
That's an old one isn't it? It got added to the 23 registration.
The 23 registration got cancelled a while back. Everything's on the 22 registration.
The 99x routes did swop from Perry Barr to Walsall at one point didn't they, so unless there was a placing journey on the 366 or 377 at the time, it was a fair dead run for the 996.
Quote from: mesub on July 20, 2021, 07:15:35 PM
The 23 registration got cancelled a while back. Everything's on the 22 registration.
Sorry yeah, that was it.
Quote from: Westy on July 20, 2021, 07:16:27 PM
The 99x routes did swop from Perry Barr to Walsall at one point didn't they, so unless there was a placing journey on the 366 or 377 at the time, it was a fair dead run for the 996.
The 996 was Sutton - Streetly- Birmingham todays diamond 78 and nx 935 covering it,
Operated from PB until September 2001 then WA interworkimg with 366 (today's WA 6) until withdrawal in May 2006.
Replaced by PB Services 196 Queslett - Sutton later becoming 78 and 993 Birmingham- Streetly later becoming WA 935.
The 913 provided a link for Withdrawn 113 via Chester Road to New oscott then current 907 route to City.
I can't see the 77 being completely Withdrawn if not only a few School Journeys.
I can possibly see Claribels taking the 77?
Where do most of its passengers travel to?
Walsall to Barr Beacon is covered by the 934.
On evenings and Sundays, there's the 937a for Blackwood, but I've seen nothing for the 937 to change to account for it at other times!
NX will probably keep the 77A, thats the schools one. Unless thats going too.
Quote from: Westy on July 21, 2021, 11:00:19 AM
Where do most of its passengers travel to?
Walsall to Barr Beacon is covered by the 934.
On evenings and Sundays, there's the 937a for Blackwood, but I've seen nothing for the 937 to change to account for it at other times!
Unfortunately that's the thing, the introduction of the 934/935 etc made the rest of the old 377 have to make do with a much reduced service, to the point that now there's probably not much point keeping the 77 in it's current form. I can foresee the 77 getting withdrawn at some point with the 9xx routes recast to keep a reasonable frequency on the Streetly - Walsall section and the Sutton end of the 77 incorporated into the 78 (to form a circle around Sutton Park, tbf the current terminating at the Queslett Road isn't an ideal spot))
To think that 77 whole corridor was one Centro special projects when they wasted a whole load of cash branding them with toothpaste like stripes. I can't remember the name of it but they did it to the 1 and 451 too at the time.
It's a shame the 366 and 377 weren't originally combined into a half hourly circular A/C type route between Sutton and Walsall. This may well have saved a vehicle from the route allocation and the associated costs that involves.
Quote from: j789 on July 21, 2021, 12:42:40 PM
It's a shame the 366 and 377 weren't originally combined into a half hourly circular A/C type route between Sutton and Walsall. This may well have saved a vehicle from the route allocation and the associated costs that involves.
No, wouldn't have saved anything unfortunately, both routes are quite an efficient use of hours
With thanks to
@Lukeeee2018 over in the Cov version of this thread, some of these variations have started to appear on the bustimes registration with some more basic information:
Quote from: Lukeeee2018 on July 21, 2021, 03:36:39 PM
Bit more information on the changes on bustimes, however, I'm not 100% sure how accurate this information is. Some of the most noticeable things were also mentioned above.
29/A - https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/815
"Withdrawn Walsgrave - Coventry. Re-routed Coventry - Chapelfields via existing 10 route to Canley Station then Glendower Avenue to Chapelfields. Extended from Chapelfields via Counden and Radford to Arena to replace existing 5 route. Evening/Sunday 29A added to Arena."
85 - https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/817
"Rerouted between UHCW and Coventry to partially replace route 1, 85S transferred to this registration"
EDIT: https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/75
Service X529 withdrawn.
Quote from: ellspurs on July 21, 2021, 04:48:13 PM
With thanks to @Lukeeee2018 over in the Cov version of this thread, some of these variations have started to appear on the bustimes registration with some more basic information:
EDIT: https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/75
Service X529 withdrawn.
Some of what I've gathered looking myself:
46 - QE Hospital to Northfield via Kings Norton and Hawkesley (replacing part of the 48)
48 - West Bromwich to Weoley Castle (revised route between QE and Northfield - not clear about the 48)
41 - QE Hospital to Acocks Green via Moseley (replacing part of the withdrawn 1A)
2 - Dudley to Merry Hill (withdrawing the 2A)
X10 - City to Gornal Wood (diverted via Wallows Road - guessing to cover the 2A withdrawal)
X529 is withdrawn
10A is withdrawn
80A is renumbered to 80
12/12A - City to Dudley (revised route between Bearwood and City)
17/17A - Dudley to Stourbridge (re-routed between Gornal and Dudley)
27 - Maypole to Cofton Hackett (revised route - not clear about CH)
X20 is withdrawn (replaced by service 20 - didn't specify about the 20)
4/4A - Birmingham to Solihull/Gospel Oak (4A route change)
27/27A - Dudley to Wolverhampton (has a route change)
94 - City to Chelmsley Wood (an addition of service 95)
96 - Kingstanding to Chelmsley Wood (revised route)
Quote from: OH25 on July 21, 2021, 05:29:28 PM
Some of what I've gathered looking myself:
46 - QE Hospital to Northfield via Kings Norton and Hawkesley (replacing part of the 48)
48 - West Bromwich to Weoley Castle (revised route between QE and Northfield - not clear about the 48)
41 - QE Hospital to Acocks Green via Moseley (replacing part of the withdrawn 1A)
2 - Dudley to Merry Hill (withdrawing the 2A)
X10 - City to Gornal Wood (diverted via Wallows Road - guessing to cover the 2A withdrawal)
X529 is withdrawn
10A is withdrawn
80A is renumbered to 80
12/12A - City to Dudley (revised route between Bearwood and City)
17/17A - Dudley to Stourbridge (re-routed between Gornal and Dudley)
27 - Maypole to Cofton Hackett (revised route - not clear about CH)
X20 is withdrawn (replaced by service 20 - didn't specify about the 20)
4/4A - Birmingham to Solihull/Gospel Oak (4A route change)
27/27A - Dudley to Wolverhampton (has a route change)
94 - City to Chelmsley Wood (an addition of service 95)
96 - Kingstanding to Chelmsley Wood (revised route)
They're going to send them down City & Portland Road aren't they ???, seems that rumour could be correct
@2900. Hopefully they'll leave the frequency alone, if not increase it
X529 - Not surprised.
10a - Surprised, but I guess that's due to the rebirth of Chaserider between Burntwood & Lichfield?
(I guess the Diamond 35 is continuing?)
Quote from: Westy on July 21, 2021, 06:29:04 PM
X529 - Not surprised.
10a - Surprised, but I guess that's due to the rebirth of Chaserider between Burntwood & Lichfield?
(I guess the Diamond 35 is continuing?)
Does the chase rider 60 operate 3 mins in front of the 10a or they completely different offerings
Quote from: OH25 on July 21, 2021, 05:29:28 PM
Some of what I've gathered looking myself:
41 - QE Hospital to Acocks Green via Moseley (replacing part of the withdrawn 1A)
Looking at the current 1A, I don't know how this 41 can replace 'part' of the 1A, unless there is perhaps going to be a route change between the QE and Edgbaston. Unless there's going to be a slightly different route around the Acocks Green end.
Quote4/4A - Birmingham to Solihull/Gospel Oak (4A route change)
Someone pointed out that the 31 was being cancelled, so perhaps the 4A will be extended to Shirley or maybe even Solihull?
Or it could just be a route change in Acocks Green, tied in with this new 41 service.
I wonder what's replacing the 81 and Pn5. Surprised they don't extend the WN4 down to Dudley
Quote from: the trainbasher on July 21, 2021, 07:37:37 PM
I wonder what's replacing the 81 and Pn5. Surprised they don't extend the WN4 down to Dudley
I'm surprised that WN81 is being withdrawn and that PN5 has lasted so long to be honest
Quote from: Stu on July 21, 2021, 07:17:50 PM
Someone pointed out that the 31 was being cancelled, so perhaps the 4A will be extended to Shirley or maybe even Solihull?
Or it could just be a route change in Acocks Green, tied in with this new 41 service.
Possibly 4A being routed along Streetsbrook Road and Olton Road?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 21, 2021, 07:05:53 PM
Does the chase rider 60 operate 3 mins in front of the 10a or they completely different offerings
To be honest, I haven't compared the timetables, but bear in mind what happened to the routes under Arriva, then Nx joining the fray, then Covid, then Arriva being replaced by Chaserider, eventually becoming a 15 min service between Burntwood & Lichfield, so I guess Nx thinks there's no need for the 10a anymore.
Presumably it will probably go back to the previous pattern of service of going to Burntwood only?
Quote from: Tony on July 21, 2021, 12:58:07 PM
No, wouldn't have saved anything unfortunately, both routes are quite an efficient use of hours
Off the top of my head, last time I looked at my old timetables, I'm sure there was an old joint Walsall/Sutton operated service that did a Streetly to Sutton circular.
I think eventually these, with some other services, eventually became what we now know as the 377 / 77, with Sutton operating the route, as I recall seeing a picture of a D9 operating the route somewhere.
I guess Walsall took over the route when Sutton shut.
Quote from: Westy on July 21, 2021, 09:01:38 PM
Off the top of my head, last time I looked at my old timetables, I'm sure there was an old joint Walsall/Sutton operated service that did a Streetly to Sutton circular.
I think eventually these, with some other services, eventually became what we now know as the 377 / 77, with Sutton operating the route, as I recall seeing a picture of a D9 operating the route somewhere.
I guess Walsall took over the route when Sutton shut.
Yes. Walsall Corporation ran Walsall - Streetly and Midland Red ran Sutton - Streetly, until in 1959 the two operators started joint services 115 Walsall - Streetly - Sutton - New Oscott - Walsall, and 117 the other way round. They were not that successful, and were reduced in 1961 from daily to Mon-Fri peak hours only.
They were renumbered 375 and 377 in 1971, and lasted with WMPTE in this form until 1978, when 377 Walsall - New Oscott - Sutton, daily, started (along with services 376 and 378 serving Streetly). I am fairly sure that all three were operated by both WL and SN until SN closed.
Quote from: Stu on July 21, 2021, 07:17:50 PM
Looking at the current 1A, I don't know how this 41 can replace 'part' of the 1A, unless there is perhaps going to be a route change between the QE and Edgbaston. Unless there's going to be a slightly different route around the Acocks Green end.
Someone pointed out that the 31 was being cancelled, so perhaps the 4A will be extended to Shirley or maybe even Solihull?
Or it could just be a route change in Acocks Green, tied in with this new 41 service.
I think the 4A will follow where the 31 went
Cancellation for the 38 Erdington - Castle Vale - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581403/
New X13 - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581319/
Quote from: metrocity on July 22, 2021, 05:07:52 AM
Cancellation for the 38 Erdington - Castle Vale - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581403/
New X13 - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581319/
This looks like the X70 re-numbered to X13 which is no surprise.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581398/
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581374/
X22 added to the X21 (X64) registration. Not sure if there's any route changes involved though.
Quote from: metrocity on July 22, 2021, 05:07:52 AM
Cancellation for the 38 Erdington - Castle Vale - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581403/
New X13 - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581319/
38 not a surprise, however could be wrong if replacement brought in that could be the 96 variation
Quote from: the trainbasher on July 21, 2021, 07:37:37 PM
I wonder what's replacing the 81 and Pn5. Surprised they don't extend the WN4 down to Dudley
Why on Earth would they do that?
Quote from: Dom on July 22, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
Why on Earth would they do that?
Extend the WN4 to replace the 81? Erm, let me think, gives those areas the 81 serves their existing links to Wolves, plus reduces the length of unproductive time buses have in the city centre, as well as introduces new journey opportunities for cross city journeys
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 22, 2021, 10:48:49 AM
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581398/
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581374/
X22 added to the X21 (X64) registration. Not sure if there's any route changes involved though.
Interesting, but fair enough. Their termini aren't
too far from each other.
Quote from: mesub on July 22, 2021, 06:35:09 PM
Interesting, but fair enough. Their termini aren't too far from each other.
termini doesn't make any difference to combined registrations
Quote from: Tony on July 22, 2021, 06:36:55 PM
termini doesn't make any difference to combined registrations
Oh.
Must be to save costs when the timetable has to change then.
Speaking of costs, with all this renumbering going on, X13, 95 and what have you, isn't going to be a significant cost to change all the flags at the stops?
Also the de-branding of buses, such as 6880-89.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 22, 2021, 07:03:38 PM
Speaking of costs, with all this renumbering going on, X13, 95 and what have you, isn't going to be a significant cost to change all the flags at the stops?
Also the de-branding of buses, such as 6880-89.
Probably why it is all being done at once. One set of flag changes and such.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 22, 2021, 07:03:38 PM
Speaking of costs, with all this renumbering going on, X13, 95 and what have you, isn't going to be a significant cost to change all the flags at the stops?
Also the de-branding of buses, such as 6880-89.
What de branding needs to be done?
Quote from: Jack D on July 22, 2021, 07:32:02 PM
What de branding needs to be done?
X20-X22 Branded platinums
Quote from: Westy on July 21, 2021, 08:53:42 PM
To be honest, I haven't compared the timetables, but bear in mind what happened to the routes under Arriva, then Nx joining the fray, then Covid, then Arriva being replaced by Chaserider, eventually becoming a 15 min service between Burntwood & Lichfield, so I guess Nx thinks there's no need for the 10a anymore.
Presumably it will probably go back to the previous pattern of service of going to Burntwood only?
The 8 is being extended to Burntwood and Lichfield to replace the 10A
Quote from: ellspurs on July 22, 2021, 07:27:06 PM
Probably why it is all being done at once. One set of flag changes and such.
Yeah, quite possibly.
Quote from: metrocity on July 22, 2021, 07:52:24 PM
The 8 is being extended to Burntwood and Lichfield to replace the 10A
So a new or maybe restored link from Pelsall to Burntwood & Lichfield.
Do we still get a Sunday service to Lichfield, assuming Staffs County Council ain't doing anything yet with subsidies?
Also what about the Maybrook section that the 10a serves?
Quote from: Westy on July 22, 2021, 09:05:53 PM
So a new or maybe restored link from Pelsall to Burntwood & Lichfield.
Do we still get a Sunday service to Lichfield, assuming Staffs County Council ain't doing anything yet with subsidies?
Also what about the Maybrook section that the 10a serves?
Not very good as the 8 restricted to single deck some peak Journeys AM are fully seated by Chasetown I can see this having issues by Clayhanger and Pelsall.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 22, 2021, 07:22:57 AM
This looks like the X70 re-numbered to X13 which is no surprise.
and the 19 regs may finally get branded joint for X12 nd X13(X70)
Quote from: Westy on July 22, 2021, 09:05:53 PM
So a new or maybe restored link from Pelsall to Burntwood & Lichfield.
Do we still get a Sunday service to Lichfield, assuming Staffs County Council ain't doing anything yet with subsidies?
Also what about the Maybrook section that the 10a serves?
No Sunday service to Lichfield
Quote from: metrocity on July 23, 2021, 08:04:25 AM
No Sunday service to Lichfield
I presume the x3 is still running a Sunday bus?
Quote from: Westy on July 23, 2021, 10:47:53 AM
I presume the x3 is still running a Sunday bus?
Nope. That's withdrawn.
Quote from: Westy on July 23, 2021, 10:47:53 AM
I presume the x3 is still running a Sunday bus?
At the moment it is but it may change after the 29th August
Changes now registered for 29th August.
Service 36 no longer serving Foremans rd & Stratford rd now serving battery way & extended to small heath station via golden hillock rd.
Service 604.
Warren farm is withdrawn with buses starting from Kingstanding circke.
Halton rd & braemar rd are removed with buses now serving Melrose Avenue and Monmouth drive.
Buses extended from mere green to Hillhook Bishops way via the lichfield rd.
Some exciting new links for these longstanding services
Quote from: Steveminor on July 23, 2021, 05:46:13 PM
Changes now registered for 29th August.
Service 36 no longer serving Foremans rd & Stratford rd now serving battery way & extended to small heath station via golden hillock rd.
Service 604.
Warren farm is withdrawn with buses starting from Kingstanding circke.
Halton rd & braemar rd are removed with buses now serving Melrose Avenue and Monmouth drive.
Buses extended from mere green to Hillhook Bishops way via the lichfield rd.
Some exciting new links for these longstanding services
So the 36 is very close to being a circular route.
I don't know if I'm over thinking this, but is the NEW 41 going to serve Formans Road, Stratford Road, Showell Green Lane and Yardley Wood Road to Wake Green Road, then replacing the rest of the 1A ? The reason why I say this is because I'm wondering if the proposal for the Stratford Road services which was muted last year is going to happen ? If so I think remember the part of the revision for the 5 was to run on Stratford Road to Cole Bank Road, with the NEW 41 serving Showell Green Lane to enable this to happen
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 23, 2021, 06:24:54 PM
So the 36 is very close to being a circular route.
I don't know if I'm over thinking this, but is the NEW 41 going to serve Formans Road, Stratford Road, Showell Green Lane and Yardley Wood Road to Wake Green Road, then replacing the rest of the 1A ? The reason why I say this is because I'm wondering if the proposal for the Stratford Road services which was muted last year is going to happen ? If so I think remember the part of the revision for the 5 was to run on Stratford Road to Cole Bank Road, with the NEW 41 serving Showell Green Lane to enable this to happen
I suppose it depends on passenger loadings along Formans Road - it seems senseless for the new 41 service to take such a lengthy detour from the 1 route just to cover that road.
Also, you couldn't run a route along Showell Green Lane from that direction anyway - presently from city journeys on the 5 turn right onto Court Road from Stratford Road, before turning left onto Showell Green Lane. From Showell Green Lane towards city it is left-turn only onto Stratford Road.
Also, while I can see some variation registered for the 5 from 29th August, there is no variation for the 6, so I would guess that these proposed Stratford Road changes aren't actually going to happen.
As someone with very elderly relatives with limited mobility who rely on the 36 using Formans Road I shall watch developments with interest
Quote from: cardew on July 23, 2021, 07:16:31 PM
As someone with very elderly relatives with limited mobility who rely on the 36 using Formans Road I shall watch developments with interest
The 41 is serving Formans Road instead
Quote from: OH25 on July 21, 2021, 05:29:28 PM
Some of what I've gathered looking myself:
46 - QE Hospital to Northfield via Kings Norton and Hawkesley (replacing part of the 48)
48 - West Bromwich to Weoley Castle (revised route between QE and Northfield - not clear about the 48)
If the 46 is going to replace the current 48 route from QE to Northfield, I'm going to speculate that the 48 will operate somewhat 'more direct', perhaps it will join the 18 route from Cotteridge to get to Northfield?
I also think that maybe the changes to the 27 will be involved somehow.
Ultimately I guess we're all going to have to wait and see what the official announcement reveals.
After all, we're just over 5 weeks away now, and I hope that official details are not left until too late.
I reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread, if there really are going to be a large number of wholesale changes being made across the region, I am really disappointed that there has been no public consultation on this at all.
Quote from: metrocity on July 23, 2021, 07:31:08 PM
The 41 is serving Formans Road instead
I believe the 41 & 36 will mirror each other from acocks green to reddings lane giving that section an enhanced service between both operators. The 41 will then serve foremans rd &Stratford rd whilst the 36 will serve battery way & golden hillock rd. Through these changes both Nx & Claribels will be providing enhanced connectivity to the area with the 36 adding the multi modal aspect with its connection to west Midlands trains at small heath station.
Quote from: cardew on July 23, 2021, 07:16:31 PM
As someone with very elderly relatives with limited mobility who rely on the 36 using Formans Road I shall watch developments with interest
Like I said, I don't know what passenger loadings are like along that part of the route, but I am always interested in hearing opinions of people who do use these services, and do keep a watch out.
Quote from: metrocity on July 23, 2021, 07:31:08 PM
The 41 is serving Formans Road instead
I will hazard a guess then that this new 41 route from Acocks Green will follow the current 36 route along Spring Road, Olton Boulevard West and then onto Formans Road, before turning left onto Stratford Road, and then right onto Springfield Road, before turning onto College Road to rejoin the current 1 / 1A route, with the reverse of this for journeys to Acocks Green.
If this is the case, then I welcome this move to incorporate a part of a subsided route into a commercial service, and I hope it works out.
good to hear, thanks for the replies
Quote from: Stu on July 23, 2021, 07:35:13 PM
If the 46 is going to replace the current 48 route from QE to Northfield, I'm going to speculate that the 48 will operate somewhat 'more direct', perhaps it will join the 18 route from Cotteridge to get to Northfield?
I also think that maybe the changes to the 27 will be involved somehow.
Ultimately I guess we're all going to have to wait and see what the official announcement reveals.
After all, we're just over 5 weeks away now, and I hope that official details are not left until too late.
I reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread, if there really are going to be a large number of wholesale changes being made across the region, I am really disappointed that there has been no public consultation on this at all.
The 48 could run a similar route to the old 2009/2010 number 20 - QE to Weoley Castle via Gibbins Rd and then onto Northfield via Swarthmore Rd as it does currently. I'm sure the 48 has run along a similar course before in its many guises.
Doubt it will run to Cotteridge and then duplicate the 18 as that is a frequent service anyway.
Could the new 20/46 and 27 be in line for interworking to some degree. Interesting times!
Quote from: SO6597 on July 23, 2021, 07:51:32 PM
The 48 could run a similar route to the old 2009/2010 number 20 - QE to Weoley Castle via Gibbins Rd and then onto Northfield via Swarthmore Rd as it does currently. I'm sure the 48 has run along a similar course before in its many guises.
Doubt it will run to Cotteridge and then duplicate the 18 as that is a frequent service anyway.
Could the new 20/46 and 27 be in line for interworking to some degree. Interesting times!
To be honest I don't know, and I can't quite figure it out either, but the 48 is still down as going to Weoley Castle 'via Northfield'. The other possibility is that it will take the current 27 route from Linden Road, but then how would the 27 be rerouted as a result?
I think it will all (hopefully!) make sense once these changes are actually announced.
Is it true the X1 is being broken in two being a precursor to Sprint at the Birmingham end?
Or will it be like the 700 between Brighton and Portsmouth where the route is still marketed as through route with through fares to improve reliability in the short term.
Could the 28th August be the end of the 159 or the 900 as it is still called by some after all there is company preserved Timesaver that could run on the last day!
Quote from: Steveminor on July 23, 2021, 05:46:13 PM
Changes now registered for 29th August.
Service 36 no longer serving Foremans rd & Stratford rd now serving battery way & extended to small heath station via golden hillock rd.
Service 604.
Warren farm is withdrawn with buses starting from Kingstanding circke.
Halton rd & braemar rd are removed with buses now serving Melrose Avenue and Monmouth drive.
Buses extended from mere green to Hillhook Bishops way via the lichfield rd.
Some exciting new links for these longstanding services
Rip going on the 36 to strafford road then
Quote from: JoNi on July 24, 2021, 09:50:14 AM
Is it true the X1 is being broken in two being a precursor to Sprint at the Birmingham end?
Or will it be like the 700 between Brighton and Portsmouth where the route is still marketed as through route with through fares to improve reliability in the short term.
Could the 28th August be the end of the 159 or the 900 as it is still called by some after all there is company preserved Timesaver that could run on the last day!
I'm unsure, it is listed as a variation atm on the government site. The data is updated on bustimes weekly, so when that updates we may be able to see if there are any additional notes on file.
Comedy option: one of the Chelmsley Wood services is extended through to Coventry to continue a tenuous link.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 23, 2021, 06:24:54 PM
So the 36 is very close to being a circular route.
I don't know if I'm over thinking this, but is the NEW 41 going to serve Formans Road, Stratford Road, Showell Green Lane and Yardley Wood Road to Wake Green Road, then replacing the rest of the 1A ? The reason why I say this is because I'm wondering if the proposal for the Stratford Road services which was muted last year is going to happen ? If so I think remember the part of the revision for the 5 was to run on Stratford Road to Cole Bank Road, with the NEW 41 serving Showell Green Lane to enable this to happen
Tbh a short extension then to the 36 from Small Heath back up to Heartlands could enable an end to the ludicrous 45 minute frequency and maybe even take over that stretch of the 28A route. But that's just unnecessary armchair route panning etc on my part etc...
Although on the frequency point, if the new 41 was to work with the 36 on the common section would that indicate another service with a 45 minute frequency?
Quote from: Kevin on July 24, 2021, 01:10:07 PM
Tbh a short extension then to the 36 from Small Heath back up to Heartlands could enable an end to the ludicrous 45 minute frequency and maybe even take over that stretch of the 28A route. But that's just unnecessary armchair route panning etc on my part etc...
Although on the frequency point, if the new 41 was to work with the 36 on the common section would that indicate another service with a 45 minute frequency?
The 45 min frequency is quite annoying if you have the 36 as your local like me.Rather than 45,30 or 25 min would be better.Im also guessing the 41 allocation will be the same as 1A ( gemini 1's and ALX400 ) as the 36 had tridents and E400's before When NX had it.
Quote from: JoNi on July 24, 2021, 09:50:14 AM
Is it true the X1 is being broken in two being a precursor to Sprint at the Birmingham end?
Or will it be like the 700 between Brighton and Portsmouth where the route is still marketed as through route with through fares to improve reliability in the short term.
Could the 28th August be the end of the 159 or the 900 as it is still called by some after all there is company preserved Timesaver that could run on the last day!
Quote from: ellspurs on July 24, 2021, 11:49:02 AM
I'm unsure, it is listed as a variation atm on the government site. The data is updated on bustimes weekly, so when that updates we may be able to see if there are any additional notes on file.
Comedy option: one of the Chelmsley Wood services is extended through to Coventry to continue a tenuous link.
There is a variation for the X1 / X2 (both on the same 900 registration), but I guess that is just reverting back to normal timetables following the school holiday period.
Quote from: Stu on July 24, 2021, 01:53:56 PM
There is a variation for the X1 / X2 (both on the same 900 registration), but I guess that is just reverting back to normal timetables following the school holiday period.
Subsequently occurred to me that Coventry end will have to be electric eventually and would presumably be separated. Others I spoke to said "oh that's true" showing how the electric bus revolution is yet to enter the psyche of either myself or fellow citizens, let alone very light rail.
Quote from: Kevin on July 24, 2021, 01:10:07 PM
Tbh a short extension then to the 36 from Small Heath back up to Heartlands could enable an end to the ludicrous 45 minute frequency and maybe even take over that stretch of the 28A route. But that's just unnecessary armchair route panning etc on my part etc...
Although on the frequency point, if the new 41 was to work with the 36 on the common section would that indicate another service with a 45 minute frequency?
It might combine with the 1 frequency instead through Moseley.
Quote from: JoNi on July 24, 2021, 03:06:35 PM
and would presumably be separated.
No reason why electric or hydrogen buses can't continue into Birmingham surely.
Quote from: JoNi on July 24, 2021, 09:50:14 AM
Is it true the X1 is being broken in two being a precursor to Sprint at the Birmingham end?
Can I ask where you heard this from? Only someone else has mentioned the same thing in a comment on my website article.
Quote from: Stu on July 25, 2021, 12:18:21 PM
Can I ask where you heard this from? Only someone else has mentioned the same thing in a comment on my website article.
I assumed it were going to happen at some point, given the Sprint route creation and Coventry going all-electric. Just didn't expect it to happen this soon.
Quote from: ellspurs on July 25, 2021, 12:32:14 PM
Just didn't expect it to happen this soon.
It isn't.
@Stu the x1 is not down for a route change so its just a school return timetable chane
Quote from: Steveminor on July 25, 2021, 02:36:59 PM
@Stu the x1 is not down for a route change so its just a school return timetable chane
Yes, that's what I believe to be true, I'm just curious about where some of these 'rumours' are originating.
Quote from: Stu on July 25, 2021, 03:06:54 PM
Yes, that's what I believe to be true, I'm just curious about where some of these 'rumours' are originating.
When drivers are bored they start rumours lol
Quote from: Steveminor on July 25, 2021, 03:08:19 PM
When drivers are bored they start rumours lol
Hey Steve, what stop will the 36 terminate? Across the Station or do a U turn around small heath highway and go back on golden hillock Road and terminate on the other stop?
We have requested a stop be positioned directly in front of the station where the layby is
https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/39
How reliable is 'Bustimes' for things like this? Suggesting there's a route change but the Woodgate terminus is just because X22 is being added to registration, right?
Additionally, a changed hinted at for the 45 and or 47.
https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/123
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 26, 2021, 11:22:03 AM
https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/39
How reliable is 'Bustimes' for things like this? Suggesting there's a route change but the Woodgate terminus is just because X22 is being added to registration, right?
Additionally, a changed hinted at for the 45 and or 47.
https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/123
It is just an exact copy of the DVSA website
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 26, 2021, 11:22:03 AM
https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/39
How reliable is 'Bustimes' for things like this? Suggesting there's a route change but the Woodgate terminus is just because X22 is being added to registration, right?
Additionally, a changed hinted at for the 45 and or 47.
https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/123
I'm wondering if they will send the one or both 45 or 47 to coften h
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 26, 2021, 04:14:29 PM
I'm wondering if they will send the one or both 45 or 47 to coften h
I did think that as a possible replacement for X20 but they've been there and done that.
Or if they don't do that offer a 10 min service split between the 20 and 27 so people can change at longbridge and offer no direct service to the city. That might go down like a lead balloon. I know speculation.
Slight diversion, seeing someone mentioned debranding earlier.
NX will have the least hassle of doing this for Walsall 31/32 unlike Diamond.
Presumably, all Nx would have to do is put carefully placed stickers over the frequency & possibly the day return fare, if both get changed.
Diamond would have a lot of work to debrand their 31 / 32 vehicles.
Bearing in mind, it took ages for them to remove branding for a short lived Walsall to Willenhall service, I suspect the Diamond vehicles will be running around for ages with out of date branding.
Quote from: Westy on July 26, 2021, 09:37:07 PM
Slight diversion, seeing someone mentioned debranding earlier.
NX will have the least hassle of doing this for Walsall 31/32 unlike Diamond.
Presumably, all Nx would have to do is put carefully placed stickers over the frequency & possibly the day return fare, if both get changed.
Diamond would have a lot of work to debrand their 31 / 32 vehicles.
Bearing in mind, it took ages for them to remove branding for a short lived Walsall to Willenhall service, I suspect the Diamond vehicles will be running around for ages with out of date branding.
Diamond have said in their notice about the ending of the partnership https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/wmb_service_changes/ (https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/wmb_service_changes/) that: "We'll be returning to our distinctive Diamond blue livery buses".
THey have a vested interest in doing so, and I hope they will.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on July 26, 2021, 09:45:59 PM
Diamond have said in their notice about the ending of the partnership https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/wmb_service_changes/ (https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/wmb_service_changes/) that: "We'll be returning to our distinctive Diamond blue livery buses".
THey have a vested interest in doing so, and I hope they will.
Yes, but as I said before, they took time debranding other vehicles.
How long does it take to brand / debrand a vehicle?
How quick after a service withdrawal announcement should a vehicle be debranded?
Quote from: Westy on July 26, 2021, 10:05:46 PM
Yes, but as I said before, they took time debranding other vehicles.
How long does it take to brand / debrand a vehicle?
How quick after a service withdrawal announcement should a vehicle be debranded?
They did take ages to debrand the 529E buses, however that was ages ago, these days diamond seemed to have really upped their repaint program so can't imagine them running around in red for too long.
Quote from: Westy on July 26, 2021, 09:37:07 PM
Presumably, all Nx would have to do is put carefully placed stickers over the frequency & possibly the day return fare, if both get changed.
Depends whether those vehicles continue to run in that joint operation livery or are repainted into standard NX crimson livery?
Also you would expect the 688X fleet will gain new branding for University X21/X22 (as thats a major corridor connecting QE and Uni to the Centre of the City). They might rebrand the Harborne ones with them as well maybe, as they don't have any internal platinum branding as well.
Possibly new joint branding for Bromford X12/X13 and even Ward End 94/95 with the changes as well.
So NX could potentially have more than Diamond to brand/debrand.
Quote from: 2206 on July 26, 2021, 11:05:22 PM
Depends whether those vehicles continue to run in that joint operation livery or are repainted into standard NX crimson livery?
Also you would expect the 688X fleet will gain new branding for University X21/X22 (as thats a major corridor connecting QE and Uni to the Centre of the City). They might rebrand the Harborne ones with them as well maybe, as they don't have any internal platinum branding as well.
Possibly new joint branding for Bromford X12/X13 and even Ward End 94/95 with the changes as well.
So NX could potentially have more than Diamond to brand/debrand.
tbf they should've renamed the X70 into X11 instead as i think it would've suited better the X11 and X12 but that's my opinion
Quote from: 2206 on July 26, 2021, 11:05:22 PM
Also you would expect the 688X fleet will gain new branding for University X21/X22 (as thats a major corridor connecting QE and Uni to the Centre of the City).
I wouldn't be too sure about that, the Sutton Lines branding still hasn't been amended to show Lichfield on the route map, as far as I know.
Quote from: DJ on July 27, 2021, 04:41:34 AM
I wouldn't be too sure about that, the Sutton Lines branding still hasn't been amended to show Lichfield on the route map, as far as I know.
Bit of a difference between an extension to one of the routes and one of the routes disappearing completely.
I can't see 6880-9 being re-branded afterwards anyway to be honest.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 27, 2021, 06:51:17 AM
Bit of a difference between an extension to one of the routes and one of the routes disappearing completely.
I can't see 6880-9 being re-branded afterwards anyway to be honest.
They could probably just get rid of all references to the X20 and leave it like that
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 27, 2021, 06:51:17 AM
Bit of a difference between an extension to one of the routes and one of the routes disappearing completely.
I can't see 6880-9 being re-branded afterwards anyway to be honest.
That's a fair point actually, and now that I think about it, they managed to get the branding changed in quick succession for the Platinums at WN, from 126, to X7/X8, to just the X8, to 8/X8.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 26, 2021, 05:10:37 PM
Or if they don't do that offer a 10 min service split between the 20 and 27 so people can change at longbridge and offer no direct service to the city. That might go down like a lead balloon. I know speculation.
It will be interesting to see the detail of what is produced as the replacement(s) for the X20 and the links that Rednal will eventually have. I'm old enough to remember WMPTE searching for viable services (64/48), WMT the same in the 1990s (49/647/648) and, more recently, NXWM (X62/98/X20) not to mention the many different iterations of the 45/47. Many things have been tried over the years!
Quote from: SO6597 on July 27, 2021, 10:22:37 AM
It will be interesting to see the detail of what is produced as the replacement(s) for the X20 and the links that Rednal will eventually have. I'm old enough to remember WMPTE searching for viable services (64/48), WMT the same in the 1990s (49/647/648) and, more recently, NXWM (X62/98/X20) not to mention the many different iterations of the 45/47. Many things have been tried over the years!
At what point was it that the 62 became no longer commercially viable in its current form? Was it the demise of Rover? The old Rover site stretched quite a way down Lickey Road, I remember as a student having a temporary summer job there and I used to get off the bus close to the Lowhill Lane junction.
When I was young, the 61, 62 and 63 all had the same frequencies (the 61 in those days went as far as the Egghill Lane estate, the Frankley, Gannow and Frogmill estates weren't yet built). The 62, with its interesting terminus by the old train tracks, opposite the amusement arcade and at the foot of the Lickey Hills, was my favourite of the Bristol Road routes growing up.
Quote from: Mike K on July 27, 2021, 11:31:37 AM
At what point was it that the 62 became no longer commercially viable in its current form? Was it the demise of Rover? The old Rover site stretched quite a way down Lickey Road, I remember as a student having a temporary summer job there and I used to get off the bus close to the Lowhill Lane junction.
When I was young, the 61, 62 and 63 all had the same frequencies (the 61 in those days went as far as the Egghill Lane estate, the Frankley, Gannow and Frogmill estates weren't yet built). The 62, with its interesting terminus by the old train tracks, opposite the amusement arcade and at the foot of the Lickey Hills, was my favourite of the Bristol Road routes growing up.
Wasn't the 62 taken off more because they wanted to increase the 63 frequency rather than it proving too costly? The 63 is still very frequent now, I wonder perhaps if they could introduce a 63a service that ran up to Rednal then via Leach Green Lane to Rubery to join back in with the normal 63.
If the buses were scheduled to do a normal 63 followed by a 63a in return (in both directions) then it may be possible to run this 63a without any additional bus (with a few less minutes at the terminus perhaps).
Are timetable leaflets coming back at this point, or is that still up in the air at the moment?
Quote from: j789 on July 27, 2021, 12:47:06 PM
Wasn't the 62 taken off more because they wanted to increase the 63 frequency rather than it proving too costly? The 63 is still very frequent now, I wonder perhaps if they could introduce a 63a service that ran up to Rednal then via Leach Green Lane to Rubery to join back in with the normal 63.
If the buses were scheduled to do a normal 63 followed by a 63a in return (in both directions) then it may be possible to run this 63a without any additional bus (with a few less minutes at the terminus perhaps).
I think there's an issue with DDs running along Leach Green Lane due to low hanging trees.
There used to be a 63A in the mid/late 90s on Sunday evenings but it used to go up Lickey Road to the 62 terminus and back down again before continuing along the normal line of route.
I loved the old terminus. A childhood spotting haunt - 62, 64 and the old MRW 334/302.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 27, 2021, 06:51:17 AM
Bit of a difference between an extension to one of the routes and one of the routes disappearing completely.
I can't see 6880-9 being re-branded afterwards anyway to be honest.
They'll probably be rebranded in the new style branding like the 8/X8 you would think as the University Station/Selly Oak - City bit is a major/key corridor as links important places like the QE/Uni to the City Centre. And you would expect X21/X22 will see some sort of increase to reatain the frequency?
Either that or they might brand some of the 75XX for the University corridor instead & 688X for the Bromford routes.
Quote from: SO6597 on July 27, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
I think there's an issue with DDs running along Leach Green Lane due to low hanging trees.
Could cut the trees back? The X20 used to use Edgewood Road so they can go up that one.
I would have thought better left how it is is currently though if the 20 is still going to be every 20 mins though?
Quote from: 2206 on July 27, 2021, 03:12:35 PM
They'll probably be rebranded in the new style branding like the 8/X8 you would think as the University Station - City bit is a major/key corridor as links important places like the QE/Uni to the City Centre. And you would expect X21/X22 will see some sort of increase to reatain the frequency?
Either that or they might brand some of the 75XX for the University corridor instead & 688X for the Bromford routes.Could cut the trees back? The X20 used to use Edgewood Road so they can go up that one.
I would have thought better left how it is though if the 20 is currently still going to be every 20 mins though?
Edgewood Rd and Ashill Road have a weight limit on them now which spells the end for any large bus using that route.
Quote from: 2206 on July 27, 2021, 03:12:35 PM
They'll probably be rebranded in the new style branding like the 8/X8 you would think as the University Station/Selly Oak - City bit is a major/key corridor as links important places like the QE/Uni to the City Centre. And you would expect X21/X22 will see some sort of increase to reatain the frequency?
Either that or they might brand some of the 75XX for the University corridor instead & 688X for the Bromford routes
We'll see about the branding, but I doubt it to be honest.
As for the frequency, they will probably just replace the X20 with short workings on either the X21 or X22 to University Station instead.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 27, 2021, 04:45:07 PM
We'll see about the branding, but I doubt it to be honest.
As for the frequency, they will probably just replace the X20 with short workings on either the X21 or X22 to University Station instead.
I think it's more likely the the X21 and X22 will be every 15 minutes each (combined every 7-8 minutes).
Quote from: SO6597 on July 27, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
I think there's an issue with DDs running along Leach Green Lane due to low hanging trees.
There used to be a 63A in the mid/late 90s on Sunday evenings but it used to go up Lickey Road to the 62 terminus and back down again before continuing along the normal line of route.
I loved the old terminus. A childhood spotting haunt - 62, 64 and the old MRW 334/302.
I remember 63a and trying to cut costs with only a few garages operating services on a Sunday until all the drivers went on strike.
Quote from: SO6597 on July 27, 2021, 03:34:40 PM
Edgewood Rd and Ashill Road have a weight limit on them now which spells the end for any large bus using that route.
There is no weight limit for buses on those roads
Quote from: Tony on July 27, 2021, 05:17:36 PM
There is no weight limit for buses on those roads
What was the exact reason the X20 was took off Edgewood Road? I know the residents caused a fuss about double deckers going past but that can't be the reason surely?
Doesn't look like the 81 is going to be withdrawn now
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/581877/
Looks like 45 & 63 now have route changes.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 26, 2021, 11:22:03 AM
https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/39
How reliable is 'Bustimes' for things like this? Suggesting there's a route change but the Woodgate terminus is just because X22 is being added to registration, right?
Additionally, a changed hinted at for the 45 and or 47.
https://bustimes.org/registrations/PD0001111/123
One of the drivers on the University corridor told someone today X20 scrapped and X21 route is changing on the 29th. Whats changing?
Quote from: 2206 on August 03, 2021, 02:31:11 PM
One of the drivers on the University corridor told someone today X20 scrapped and X21 route is changing on the 29th. Whats changing?
Wait til the changes are announced? Only 4 weeks to go so surely will be revealed in the next week or so.
Quote from: 2206 on August 03, 2021, 02:31:11 PM
One of the drivers on the University corridor told someone today X20 scrapped and X21 route is changing on the 29th. Whats changing?
I still can't believe the X20 is going. I mean, even if it is quiet in Rednal & Cofton Hackett, surely it could've just been cut short at Longbridge or something?
Maybe the X21 extended to Northfield to cover the Uni to Northfield section? Though I dunno what the demand is like for that...
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 03, 2021, 07:17:49 PM
I still can't believe the X20 is going. I mean, even if it is quiet in Rednal & Cofton Hackett, surely it could've just been cut short at Longbridge or something?
Maybe the X21 extended to Northfield to cover the Uni to Northfield section? Though I dunno what the demand is like for that...
As has already been pointed out, there is apparently a new 20 service, which will operate between QE Hospital and Cofton Hackett, presumably partially replacing the X20.
I don't know anymore than anyone else does.
The people who know what changes are taking place, they either don't participate in this forum, or they simply can't say yet.
When the changes are ready to be announced, they will be done so on the NX Bus and TfWM websites, and then all will be revealed.
I do hope this is done sooner rather than later though, in order to give passengers time to adapt and plan ahead.
Quote from: Stu on August 03, 2021, 07:31:07 PM
As has already been pointed out, there is apparently a new 20 service, which will operate between QE Hospital and Cofton Hackett, presumably partially replacing the X20.
Still seems very strange to split it in 2, creating this new 20 route.
Presumably it finds a new route (20) for the scania single decks, that wouldn't cope well with passengers loads into the City Centre though, and if it interworks with the 27 that will be the end of double deckers running to Cofton Hackett.
Quote from: 2206 on August 03, 2021, 07:33:39 PM
Still seems very strange to split it in 2, creating this new 20 route.
The point I keep trying to make is that none of us here know exactly what is happening with this route.
It is just a mystery to me as anyone else.
We're just going to have to wait and see what is happening.
Quote from: Stu on August 03, 2021, 08:42:58 PM
The point I keep trying to make is that none of us here know exactly what is happening with this route.
It is just a mystery to me as anyone else.
We're just going to have to wait and see what is happening.
Unfortunately cost savings have to be made at the moment. Funding isn't just 'make up your losses' any more and with less than 70% of passengers currently returned almost every route is currently loss making.
NXWM are trying to keep all service levels at pre-covid until at least October half term to try to persuade passengers back, but there is a small cut in mileage to save some money. I expect come September a lot of cities will be a lot worse of than anywhere in the West Midlands are.
I haven't missed any X51 changes have I, especially the Staffs section?
Diamond have released their changed can we expect an announcement from NX soon?
The BC changes are
X20 finishing, partly replaced by 20
X21 extended to Bartley Green
45 minor route change
61 routed to serve Allens Cross
55 renumbered 95
X70 renumbered X13
Quote from: Tony on August 05, 2021, 10:47:55 AM
The BC changes are
X20 finishing, partly replaced by 20
X21 extended to Bartley Green
45 minor route change
61 routed to serve Allens Cross
55 renumbered 95
X70 renumbered X13
Is the 55 route staying the same and just the number changing?
What will the frequency be on X21/X22 from Priory Queensway to the QE/Uni and will 20 be YW operated?
Quote from: 2206 on August 05, 2021, 11:15:42 AM
Is the 55 route staying the same and just the number changing?
What will the frequency be on X21/X22 from Priory Queensway to the QE/Uni and will 20 be YW operated?
55 is same route, I haven't seen frequency details
What are the AG changes?
Quote from: Tony on August 05, 2021, 10:47:55 AM
The BC changes are
X20 finishing, partly replaced by 20
X21 extended to Bartley Green
45 minor route change
61 routed to serve Allens Cross
55 renumbered 95
X70 renumbered X13
Do you know which route it will take to get to Bartley Green and where it will terminate?
Is this so it will be easier for the X21/X22 to interwork?
PB changes are as follows;
7/16/28/33/52/65 - Minor Timetable Changes
38 - Service withdrawn, parts of Castle Vale will be covered by an extension to the 67
67 - Extended to Farnborough Road via current 38 route
55 - Renumbered to 95, interworking with 94
96 - Extended from Kingstanding to Old Oscott off peak, rerouted in Kingstanding/Warren Farm, also rerouted away from Castle Bromwich and Park Hall to serve Bucklands End and Shard End. Also serving Lanchester Way in Smith's Wood
X3 - No longer operating on Sundays
X4 - Cut back to Falcon Lodge from Minworth
X5 - Sunday frequency increased to keep 30 mins frequency from Sutton Coldfield to Mere Green
No changes to other routes not mentioned.
Nice to see another service for Shard end, direct service to the fort too!
Quote from: Jack D on August 05, 2021, 03:02:52 PM
Nice to see another service for Shard end, direct service to the fort too!
Where is this new service for Shard End to the Fort mentioned?
Quote from: Tony on August 05, 2021, 03:19:18 PM
Where is this new service for Shard End to the Fort mentioned?
He's referring to the 96 I presume
Ye I was referring to 96 change.
Unless 96 is being removed from the fort!!
What's going to replace it though, 28,71?
Quote from: Jack D on August 05, 2021, 03:25:50 PM
What's going to replace it though, 28,71?
11 would make sense perhaps as it goes close to it already.
No way you can send the 71 there without adding on a lot of extra journey time.
11 would be a very good shout to be honest!
The 11 used to go to the Fort, and then used to get stuck in all the traffic caused by that very poorly laid out roundabout (A47/A4040 junction).
Now that the layout has been massively improved, there's a decent chance the services could stay on time!
I do wonder what's happening to the PN 5 as the registration is cancelled from 29th
Quote from: DJ on August 05, 2021, 02:26:57 PM
PB changes are as follows;
7/16/28/33/52/65 - Minor Timetable Changes
38 - Service withdrawn, parts of Castle Vale will be covered by an extension to the 67
67 - Extended to Farnborough Road via current 38 route
55 - Renumbered to 95, interworking with 94
96 - Extended from Kingstanding to Old Oscott off peak, rerouted in Kingstanding/Warren Farm, also rerouted away from Castle Bromwich and Park Hall to serve Bucklands End and Shard End. Also serving Lanchester Way in Smith's Wood
X3 - No longer operating on Sundays
X4 - Cut back to Falcon Lodge from Minworth
X5 - Sunday frequency increased to keep 30 mins frequency from Sutton Coldfield to Mere Green
No changes to other routes not mentioned.
Out of curiosity, does this have anything to do with the 89 service?
@DJ How do you know about these changes?
We could see a website update on NX site tomorrow usual trend is for fridays to be the day they announce changes looking at when previous updates have been put on
Quote from: Jack on August 05, 2021, 04:04:36 PM
Out of curiosity, does this have anything to do with the 89 service?
That's going to be quite a long winded route on the 96 then shard end and the north chelmsley wood. Does that mean the subsidy on the 53 will go.
Quote from: BK63 YWP on August 05, 2021, 03:44:50 PM
I do wonder what's happening to the PN 5 as the registration is cancelled from 29th
im reliably informed that all pensnett changes are now registered and should be on the appropriate web sites
Drivers being trained on the changes over the next few weeks
Quote from: Jack D on August 05, 2021, 04:11:23 PM
@DJ How do you know about these changes?
I believe the staff at PB were made aware, I can't say who told me about them though, for obvious reasons.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 05, 2021, 06:55:01 PM
That's going to be quite a long winded route on the 96 then shard end and the north chelmsley wood. Does that mean the subsidy on the 53 will go.
Good riddance to the 53! It doesn't even go around Lanchester Way even when they've changed all the bus stops to show it should.
Quote from: SO6597 on July 27, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
I think there's an issue with DDs running along Leach Green Lane due to low hanging trees.
There used to be a 63A in the mid/late 90s on Sunday evenings but it used to go up Lickey Road to the 62 terminus and back down again before continuing along the normal line of route.
I loved the old terminus. A childhood spotting haunt - 62, 64 and the old MRW 334/302.
Just curious if all these changes are about balancing the books which makes sense, how does sending two routes to rednal/ coften and taking away route to the city and making people change achieve this, again all speculation and just curious really?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 05, 2021, 08:33:00 PM
Just curious if all these changes are about balancing the books which makes sense, how does sending two routes to rednal/ coften and taking away route to the city and making people change achieve this, again all speculation and just curious really?
Because our scheduling team know what they are doing and know where passengers actaully travel
Is the 58 still changing round shard end?
Quote from: Tony on August 03, 2021, 09:06:51 PM
NXWM are trying to keep all service levels at pre-covid until at least October half term to try to persuade passengers back, but there is a small cut in mileage to save some money.
So I take it this is probably the first of quite a few cuts.
The dft are quite clear they want & expect operators to keep mileage at pre covid levels but want operators to keep an eye on commercial margins & not be continually reliant on state funding.
Markets have changed & passengers habits have changed during covid, the network needs to change & adapt to reflect this.
Quote from: bususer28 on August 05, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
So I take it this is probably the first of quite a few cuts.
I guess they've not really had the data if people travelling habits have been curtailed for the past 18 mths plus. No one really knows how long this is going to go on for ?
Quote from: Tony on August 05, 2021, 10:47:55 AM
The BC changes are
[bold]X20 finishing, partly replaced by 20
X21 extended to Bartley Green[/bold]
Looks like I'll need to find time to do the Northfield to Cofton hackett section.
Do you know how far into Bartley Green the X21 is extending to?
Quote from: Tony on August 05, 2021, 10:47:55 AM
61 routed to serve Allens Cross
Wouldn't that increase the running time, requiring more buses?
Quote from: Jack D on August 05, 2021, 08:48:52 PM
Is the 58 still changing round shard end?
That was the original plan, however the 96 was amended instead
What route is 96 taking?
Quote from: metrocity on August 05, 2021, 09:35:23 PM
That was the original plan, however the 96 was amended instead
Quote from: Jack D on August 05, 2021, 12:17:56 PM
What are the AG changes?
AG changes are:
1A - Renumbered to 41 & Will mirror claribels 36. Claribels 36 will go Small heath Train Station via Battery way and Golden Hillock road.41 will take Spring road,Olton boulevard road,formans road and possible Springfield road.
58: Changes Around the shared end area
4A - route change possibly to replace the 31
31 - Cancelled
Possible Rumour that AG may have the 46 too which will interwork with 41.
Quote from: Steveminor on August 05, 2021, 09:14:40 PM
The dft are quite clear they want & expect operators to keep mileage at pre covid levels but want operators to keep an eye on commercial margins & not be continually reliant on state funding.
Markets have changed & passengers habits have changed during covid, the network needs to change & adapt to reflect this.
Bus Back Better (BBB) is quite clear that it wants improved co-ordinated services better in the evenings and weekends to generate growth of passenger numbers. It expects multi operator tickets at the same price as individual operator tickets. In Enhanced Partnership areas the proposal is made for LTAs to take over registrations from the Traffic Commissionor effectively to remove inefficient duplication of services so that vehicles and staff can be used to the greater good. With one dominant operator in the West Midlands this should be easier to achieve than other areas if influential leaders locally are motivated by the Prime Ministers aspirations in the forward of BBB.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 05, 2021, 09:16:40 PM
I guess they've not really had the data if people travelling habits have been curtailed for the past 18 mths plus. No one really knows how long this is going to go on for ?
I would love to see the return of short routes like 004, 443, 450 etc. The routes that were merged had its' moments and some of them maybe were a success but having few of short routes alongside would maybe too in the future. I do hope 46 does well even though most of the route was former 84.
Does anyone know the full extent of the WB/PE changes? Are the frequencies of the 12/A & 13/A going to be affected
Quote from: bbs on August 05, 2021, 10:13:42 PM
AG changes are:
1A - Renumbered to 41 & Will mirror claribels 36. Claribels 36 will go Small heath Train Station via Battery way and Golden Hillock road.41 will take Spring road,Olton boulevard road,formans road and possible Springfield road.
58: Changes Around the shared end area
4A - route change possibly to replace the 31
31 - Cancelled
Possible Rumour that AG may have the 46 too which will interwork with 41.
Apart from the 1A/41, none of those have been confirmed?
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 06, 2021, 01:01:52 AM
Does anyone know the full extent of the WB/PE changes? Are the frequencies of the 12/A & 13/A going to be affected
yes there are changes
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 06, 2021, 01:01:52 AM
Does anyone know the full extent of the WB/PE changes? Are the frequencies of the 12/A & 13/A going to be affected
I heard 12/A & 13/A are to be solely operated by PE with the 12/A mirroring 13/A up Portland Road & City Road, not sure about frequencies
Does Anyone know the 96 changes how the route is going to work in shard end??
Quote from: Jack D on August 06, 2021, 05:03:52 PM
Does Anyone know the 96 changes how the route is going to work in shard end??
And is it still serving the fort?
Quote from: Stu on August 06, 2021, 09:49:31 AM
Apart from the 1A/41, none of those have been confirmed?
I haven't said they were confirmed either. I also said what changes were on the registrations
58 and 72 are inter working from 29th suggesting 72 is going single decker?
Quote from: Jack D on August 07, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
58 and 72 are inter working from 29th suggesting 72 is going single decker?
Where do you get that idea from?
It is totally incorrect. The 72 is still booked Gemini which cannot be used on the 58
Quote from: Tony on August 07, 2021, 01:14:11 PM
Where do you get that idea from?
It is totally incorrect. The 72 is still booked Gemini which cannot be used on the 58
I thought AG Gemini can't be used on Lode Lane from September are AG getting some Gemini from PB/WB? Or will it be booked E400 MMC instead?
Quote from: 2206 on August 07, 2021, 01:18:56 PM
I thought AG Gemini can't be used on Lode Lane from September are AG getting some Gemini from PB/WB? Or will it be booked E400 MMC instead?
There's a lot of presumptions going on here.
No, very few transfers for the August changes
Quote from: Tony on August 07, 2021, 01:22:58 PM
There's a lot of presumptions going on here.
No, very few transfers for the August changes
I was wondering where the September thing came from. They haven't got the Sprint corridor completely ready yet, have they?
Quote from: Jack D on August 07, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
58 and 72 are inter working from 29th suggesting 72 is going single decker?
How could the 58 and 72 interwork when the 58 is every 30 minutes and the 72 is every 8 minutes ?
I was just going by what a 58 driver told me today!
Also
@Tony do you have any further information about the 96 what it's route change is going to be, what route will it take through shard end?
Quote from: Jack D on August 07, 2021, 01:59:34 PM
Also @Tony do you have any further information about the 96 what it's route change is going to be, what route will it take through shard end?
The announcement should be next week or so, be patient and wait?
Quote from: Jack D on August 07, 2021, 01:58:17 PM
I was just going by what a 58 driver told me today!
Is there any reason why drivers are allowed to mention this sort of information to passengers, when the likes of Tony aren't allowed to mention changes etc on this forum until a certain date?
This happens every time major changes are afoot.
Surely there must be a confidentalty agreement signed somewhere?
Quote from: Westy on August 07, 2021, 04:09:44 PM
Is there any reason why drivers are allowed to mention this sort of information to passengers, when the likes of Tony aren't allowed to mention changes etc on this forum until a certain date?
This happens every time major changes are afoot.
Surely there must be a confidentalty agreement signed somewhere?
More speculation. I can mention anything I know, but as I posted earlier I work for engineering so only need to know the number of vehicles required for routes, I don't know the minute detail of the route changes. The only reason I know the BC ones is because that is where I am currently based and there are notices around the garage.
Drivers only know changes once they are posted in the garage, but sometimes drivers will invent things, like the 58 & 72 interworking
The 58 72 thing could just be combining the rota so maybe first portion on 72 then second portion on 58. That would make more sense than the actual routes interworking
Quote from: Jack D on August 07, 2021, 01:58:17 PM
I was just going by what a 58 driver told me today!
Quote from: Westy on August 07, 2021, 04:09:44 PM
Is there any reason why drivers are allowed to mention this sort of information to passengers, when the likes of Tony aren't allowed to mention changes etc on this forum until a certain date?
This happens every time major changes are afoot.
Surely there must be a confidentalty agreement signed somewhere?
Most 'rumours' that get spread on this forum (that never materialise) seem to come from 'drivers', either directly to enthusiasts or through overheard conversations.
Some drivers might make stuff up, "for a laugh", then watch how far the rumour spreads online.
Some drivers might not know for certain, and could be speculating amongst themselves. Again, part of a conversation gets overheard, and it becomes a 'rumour'.
Now I know there's nothing wrong with rumours, but it seems that some get repeated often enough that some people confuse them with the 'truth'.
That's my opinion anyway.
Quote from: Jack D on August 07, 2021, 01:58:17 PM
I was just going by what a 58 driver told me today!
It would make more sense to interwork the 58 and 73, they use to on saturdays... makes more sense than interworking with the 72...
Some times people say something then it just gets misunderstood & blown out of all proportion.
I mean the post saying about shard end getting a direct link to the fort & Tony not realising the 96 was the service that was being talked about.
I just questioned if the 96 was still serving the fort if (if tony was suggesting there wouldn't be a link between shard end and the fort) all of a sudden theres talk of the 71 the 28 or the 11 changing to serve the fort.
Quote from: Jack on August 07, 2021, 05:16:00 PM
It would make more sense to interwork the 58 and 73, they use to on saturdays... makes more sense than interworking with the 72...
How ? the 58 is every 30 mins and the 73 is every 20 mins !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 07, 2021, 06:18:09 PM
How ? the 58 is every 30 mins and the 73 is every 20 mins !
The 73 was every 30 minutes on Saturdays
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 07, 2021, 06:35:13 PM
The 73 was every 30 minutes on Saturdays
The 73 is still every 20 minutes on Saturdays
I don't exactly think Erdington be left without a bus to the Fort... the 96 is staying so I don't understand why people are thinking its going from the Fort, if it did and had no replacement how are the workers going to get there as well as the as the Fort Parkway...
If the 38 and 96 were to be taken from the Fort would Holly Lane still have a bus? Other than the tendered 25?
Personally, I think the 11 would be a good contender to serve the Fort...
Quote from: Jack on August 07, 2021, 07:18:28 PM
I don't exactly think Erdington be left without a bus to the Fort... the 96 is staying so I don't understand why people are thinking its going from the Fort, if it did and had no replacement how are the workers going to get there as well as the as the Fort Parkway...
If the 38 and 96 were to be taken from the Fort would Holly Lane still have a bus? Other than the tendered 25?
Personally, I think the 11 would be a good contender to serve the Fort...
They are having problems keeping time on the 11 hence recent changes, I cannot see the 11 serving the fort anytime soon.
Quote from: Jack on August 07, 2021, 07:18:28 PM
Personally, I think the 11 would be a good contender to serve the Fort...
The 11 is struggling as it is for reliability, hence the recent changes, so I fail to see how making it branch off to serve the Fort shopping park would improve things.
The Fort is one of those places where people with cars will just drive to, there are of course other shopping centres with similar stores that are already more accessible by bus.
Quote from: Stu on August 07, 2021, 07:38:36 PM
The 11 is struggling as it is for reliability, hence the recent changes, so I fail to see how making it branch off to serve the Fort shopping park would improve things.
The Fort is one of those places where people with cars will just drive to, there are of course other shopping centres with similar stores that are already more accessible by bus.
If 96 was take of, 11 would be a good replacement.
It would probably gain some passengers from the local area possibly - Stechford, Ward End, Erdington, Yardley Stockland Green etc, as last time I used it last week there were a few people with shopping bags waiting at the A4040 island. And 11 would be high frequency and also have good connections to the wider region as well as it connects with lots of frequent routes X3/X4/X5, 55/94, 97, 65, 14 etc (so you'd be able to travel from say Washwood Heath/Glebe Farm/Alum Rock etc to the fort a lot easier than now). So probably would vastly improve links to the Fort to be honest.
Would be nice to see AG Gemini back at the Fort as well, as its been a few years since they last operated there on the 966.
Quote from: Jack on August 07, 2021, 07:18:28 PM
If the 38 and 96 were to be taken from the Fort would Holly Lane still have a bus? Other than the tendered 25?
If the 96 wasn't to serve the Fort I think the other ways you can send it is to Tyburn House and either along the Kingsbury Road as the 966/966A used to or the Tyburn Road like X14 and then rejoin the current route on Holly Lane.
I don't think you could take it off Holly Lane without replacing it with something.
28 would be a good shout to the fort though frequent, and serves erdington
Quote from: Jack D on August 07, 2021, 09:20:10 PM
28 would be a good shout to the fort though frequent, and serves erdington
28 would be an awful idea as it would then have to miss all the popular stops around the Yenton to serve stops Yardley any one uses.
The 11 served the fort when it opened and was more popular then, yet still wasn't worth doing
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 07, 2021, 06:55:39 PM
The 73 is still every 20 minutes on Saturdays
Yes, I'm aware of this. Hence why I said the 73
was every 30 minutes on a Saturday, when it interworked with the 58
Quote from: Tony on August 07, 2021, 09:27:55 PM
28 would be an awful idea as it would then have to miss all the popular stops around the Yenton to serve stops Yardley any one uses.
Or for the 28 the other way you could have it serve the fort is miss out the stops by the Hunters Moon send it down Bromford Lane, Fort Parkway. Still a bad idea to miss out the Hunters Moon stops as well as it would lose the link to Erdington.
11 would be alright, if it can be done without adding on much journey time.
Quote from: 2206 on August 07, 2021, 09:35:49 PM
Or for the 28 you could have it miss out the stops by the Hunters Moon send it down Bromford Lane, Fort Parkway. Still a bad idea to miss out those stops I think.
11 would be alright, if it can be done without adding on much journey time.
On a frequent route like the 11 even just adding 6 or 7 minutes onto the journey time will cost 2 buses, one each way, or 1/4 million pounds a year to pick up "one man and his dog"
Quote from: Jack on August 07, 2021, 07:18:28 PM
I don't exactly think Erdington be left without a bus to the Fort... the 96 is staying so I don't understand why people are thinking its going from the Fort, if it did and had no replacement how are the workers going to get there as well as the as the Fort Parkway...
If the 38 and 96 were to be taken from the Fort would Holly Lane still have a bus? Other than the tendered 25?
Personally, I think the 11 would be a good contender to serve the Fort...
Most people do take 11 to go for but have to walk quite a long distance
Quote from: bbs on August 07, 2021, 09:44:15 PM
Most people do take 11 to go for but have to walk quite a long distance
And your evidence?
Quote from: Tony on August 07, 2021, 09:58:58 PM
And your evidence?
I would think anyone visiting the Fort from Stechford, Ward End, Yardley, Acocks Green or other places South or West of it would have to take the 11 as there's no other bus service serving it from that way and some do. Not sure how many do though, a small few probably.
The 96 that does serve it directly as well, is rather infrequent, so probably would put some people of using it. Not like a lot of routes where people just turn up at the stop and only have to wait a few minutes normally.
So it is rather poorly served I guess.
Are the 55/94 experiencing any delays somewhere at the Chelmsley end of the route, as this evening there was large gaps in service it seemed at about 6PM from City? Then the first bus that turned a 94 480X left full leaving half of the passengers waiting for the next one 4477.
Quote from: 2206 on August 07, 2021, 10:01:26 PM
I would think anyone visiting the Fort from Stechford, Ward End, Yardley, Acocks Green or other places South or West of it would have to take the 11 as there's no other bus service serving it from that way and some do. Not sure how many do though.
The 96 that does serve it directly as well, is rather infrequent as well, so probably would put some people of using it. Not like a lot of routes where people just turn up at the stop and only have to wait a few minutes normally.
So it is rather poorly served I guess.
Are the 55/94 experiencing any delays somewhere at the Chelmsley end of the route, as this evening there was large gaps in service it seemed at about 6PM from City? Then the first bus that turned a 94 480X left full leaving half of the passengers waiting for the next one 4477.
I've just came back from my walk, and along Auckland Drive two crimson 94s passed me heading towards Chelmsley Wood at about 22:15, barely five minutes apart.
When I ducked into a shelter to check the live timing information, the display was all garbled at the top of the screen.
Quote from: Tony on August 07, 2021, 09:58:58 PM
And your evidence?
For the record, not that I'm in any way suggesting the 11 to the Fort is either a good idea or being planned...
I know quite a few people that do use the 11to get to the Fort from Erdington / Stockland Green / Perry Barr, its handier and on a frequent service than changing / waiting in Erdington for a half hourly bus, and realistically isn't that much slower walking from the 11 stop on the island
Anyway. Once again wild speculation is taking over a thread about *actual* service changes, but that's what's going to happen when the official announcements come a considerable amount of time after the changes are registered
Quote from: Kevin on August 08, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
Anyway. Once again wild speculation is taking over a thread about *actual* service changes, but that's what's going to happen when the official announcements come a considerable amount of time after the changes are registered
You have a point, certainly in relation to the Walsall 31/32 changes, where we know, or certainly have a better idea of what Diamond are doing, compared to NX.
For example, it's been mentioned their 31 is going every 10 mins to Mossley & every 5 mins to Bloxwich & they're coming off the 32, oh &, according to Simon Dunn, when I asked him about the early Sunday morning 31's, he said their first journey is 840am, but which direction he didn't say & I didn't ask.
I'm guessing(I know) NX 31 & 32 will have a change, to put more(read compete) buses on the Mossley to Walsall section, so in other words, back to how it was before the partnership, but depending on the amount of vehicles to be put in by each operator, you can probably predict heavy loads on NX, quieter on Diamond & not a lot on the competing Chaserider 74, presumbly as most passengers will use NX to travel onwards from Walsall, as they have the network, compared to Diamond, who can only offer onward travel to West Bromwich, Aldridge & Lichfield.
Going back to those early Sunday morning journeys, assuming most of the journeys will go, did anyone use them , or even know about them, as unless you had a copy of the timetable, they were missing off the roadside timetables half the time! (I even asked Simon if they still ran at one point!)
What was the point of those journeys anyway? Unless anyone was starting/finishing work early on Sundays, the only other option was continuing to Birmingham on the 51, as that was the only other service operating at that time.
To fully make them work, there should have been earlier departures on other key Walsall services, such as the 529, where I think the first Sunday departure from Walsall is 0855, maybe an 0825 at least should have been introduced.
But, as said before, it's speculation & I'm just offering an opinion based on what I know, living in the area.
Once the McArthur Glen funding finishes, it'll be interesting to see what happens to the X51.
Based on what happened when the i54 funding finished, I'd be surprised.
I'd have to check my old timetables, but I think it was well before deregulation, that there was anything more than a hourly Sunday service between Walsall & Cannock!
Did the 11 at one time serve the fort now served by 96
Wolves drivers out route learning pensnetts 7 service ready for when they take it over
Isn't the 7 every 20 and the 27/A every 30? And what's going to happen to the 81? Will PN be getting that back?
Quote from: the trainbasher on August 08, 2021, 04:22:44 PM
what's going to happen to the 81? Will PN be getting that back?
PN never had the 81 it's always been at WN
Quote from: BNH2004 on August 08, 2021, 04:26:45 PM
PN never had the 81 it's always been at WN
Not under the 81 number, no, but it has run it when it had its pre Wolves review number of 581. It interworked with the 541.
I think I moved back IIRC when the changes to the 544 and 283 happened to make them the 582/583.
As an aside, are PN still keeping their runs on the WN16 after the changes?
Looking at the tracking for 4980 is this the new 48 route? Serving parts of the X21 route in the Selly Oak area, Weoley Avenue, etc.
Is there a lot of passenger demand for a second service to serve that new section I wonder? I think it used to go that way until a few years back and then they took it off?
Also I was also thinking if you are sending it down the X21 route, would it not make sense to have them go the same way as well and serve the Retail Park/Oak Tree Lane area?
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/278855?date=2021-08-08#journeys/155994994
Hopefully the frequency on the main X20/X21/X22 corridor to the QE isn't being decreased, if thats what removing the X20 is about.
If they are looking to make cuts as well, i'm surprised they never scrapped the 25, as I saw a platinum earlier this week leaving City Centre completely empty, just like it used to be pre covid.
Quote from: 2206 on August 08, 2021, 10:36:32 PM
Looking at the tracking for 4980 is this the new 48 route? Serving parts of the X21 route in the Selly Oak area, Weoley Avenue, etc.
Is there a lot of passenger demand for a second service to serve that new section I wonder? I think it used to go that way until a few years back and then they took it off?
Also I was also thinking if you are sending it down the X21 route, would it not make sense to have them go the same way as well and serve the Retail Park/Oak Tree Lane area?
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/278855?date=2021-08-08#journeys/155994994
See, now that makes more sense to me, having the 48 go to 'Northfield, via Weoley Castle'.
I think its being suggested that the X21 route is being altered, so I don't think both the 48 and X21 will serve Gibbins Road.
Quote from: Stu on August 09, 2021, 07:38:43 AM
See, now that makes more sense to me, having the 48 go to 'Northfield, via Weoley Castle'.
I think its being suggested that the X21 route is being altered, so I don't think both the 48 and X21 will serve Gibbins Road.
Yes that's how it was previously when the 48 served Weoley Castle and it definitely makes more sense than looping back. Makes it more useful that way too.
X21 doesn't go down Gibbins Road.
Quote from: 2206 on August 08, 2021, 10:36:32 PM
Looking at the tracking for 4980 is this the new 48 route? Serving parts of the X21 route in the Selly Oak area, Weoley Avenue, etc.
Is there a lot of passenger demand for a second service to serve that new section I wonder? I think it used to go that way until a few years back and then they took it off?
Also I was also thinking if you are sending it down the X21 route, would it not make sense to have them go the same way as well and serve the Retail Park/Oak Tree Lane area?
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/278855?date=2021-08-08#journeys/155994994
Hopefully the frequency on the main X20/X21/X22 corridor to the QE isn't being decreased, if thats what removing the X20 is about.
If they are looking to make cuts as well, i'm surprised they never scrapped the 25, as I saw a platinum earlier this week leaving City Centre completely empty, just like it used to be pre covid.
This would mean that the 48 is pretty much following a similar route to the short-lived 20 c.2009/2010 between the QE and Northfield. Makes sense now and it won't duplicate the X21 as this provides links between the QE/Selly Oak and Weoley Castle using Bristol Rd and Weoley Park Road.
The 48 used to run a similar route for a short time when it went to Bartley Green.
I see on Visa nx changed for the partnership routes are now in
I see the 77 and PN5 have been re registered. Tfwm Contract?
Quote from: Steveminor on August 09, 2021, 09:35:46 AM
I see on Visa nx changed for the partnership routes are now in
Can you explain this I'm confused 🤣
No
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/582425/
WA 29 August 2021
77 will be retained
8 - will run to Lichfield from Brownhills via 10A route.
9 - will serve Trevor road then from Bloxwich extend to Wolverhampton via 60 route.
7 - will follow evening line of route to Castlefort
Service 10 revised timetable.
Service 7A 8A 10A Withdrawn.
Quote from: PB2938 on August 09, 2021, 12:50:18 PM
WA 29 August 2021
77 will be retained
8 - will run to Lichfield from Brownhills via 10A route.
9 - will serve Trevor road then from Bloxwich extend to Wolverhampton via 60 route.
7 - will follow evening line of route to Castlefort
Service 10 revised timetable.
Service 7A 8A 10A Withdrawn.
Will the frequency of the 7, 8, 9 & 10 be increased then?
Is Green Lane going to be left without a service then?
Let's hope the times of the extended 9 between Bloxwich & Wednesfield coincide with my sister's shifts then, especially the Sunday ones!
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 09, 2021, 01:00:20 PM
Will the frequency of the 7, 8, 9 & 10 be increased then?
Is Green Lane going to be left without a service then?
7 9 10 not confirmed
8 every 30 minutes
Which Green Lane are you referring to.
Changes should be published at least by next week.
Quote from: PB2938 on August 09, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
7 9 10 not confirmed
8 every 30 minutes
Which Green Lane are you referring to.
Changes should be published at least by next week.
The Green Lane that the 10A currently serves, sorry, should've made that clearer
Quote from: 2206 on August 08, 2021, 10:36:32 PM
If they are looking to make cuts as well, i'm surprised they never scrapped the 25, as I saw a platinum earlier this week leaving City Centre completely empty, just like it used to be pre covid.
The thing is because it's a contract, the service will run, albeit with minute passengers number, until whoever funds it pulls the plug.
Quote from: bususer28 on August 09, 2021, 03:59:40 PM
The thing is because it's a contract, the service will run, albeit with minute passengers number, until whoever funds it pulls the plug.
Is the 25 (25 (25 (25))) funded by TfWM or a third party?
Quote from: ellspurs on August 09, 2021, 04:11:52 PM
Is the 25 (25 (25 (25))) funded by TfWM or a third party?
TFWM funded service probably as it used to be the 10H.
The double decker platinums its allocated are excessively large for the route, given how empty it is as well.
A lot of the places it goes have other high frequency services as well Ladywood have 80, Hagley Road the 9, Harborne Road 23/24, QE/University the X21/X22. If it went the majority wouldn't even notice probably.
Monument Road has 80 and Hagley Road routes at each end and you could always extend say 5 AG 1 journeys up the road from where they currently terminate if it needs something else.
Quote from: 2206 on August 09, 2021, 04:21:01 PM
TFWM funded service probably as it used to be the 10H.
The double decker platinums its allocated are excessively large for the route, given how empty it is as well.
The service uses only one vehicle. Also as it enters the city centre, it needs a Euro6 vehicle, so by using a 'spare' Platinum during the off-peak, it is probably being run as cost-efficiently as it can with the most fuel-efficient vehicles that BC has.
It would of course be up to TfWM to decide if the route needs changing, or whether to stop supporting it.
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 09, 2021, 02:15:55 PM
The Green Lane that the 10A currently serves, sorry, should've made that clearer
There's no green lane on the 10A route I'm aware of. If you're referring to coppice road in Walsall wood probably won't be served.
It's really concerning the fact it's 20 days until the changes and no timetables or service changes announced?
Quote from: Jack D on August 09, 2021, 08:44:57 PM
It's really concerning the fact it's 20 days until the changes and no timetables or service changes announced?
I was thinking that as well, considering these are big changes it would be a help if they were published with timetables to allow passengers to plan. If they want passengers to be back to pre-Covid numbers and gain others which is the objective long term they need to publish these changes and timetables as soon as possible.
Any updates today?
This page has been updated with new timetables www.travelinemidlands.co.uk
Quote from: cardew on August 11, 2021, 12:47:40 PM
This page has been updated with new timetables www.travelinemidlands.co.uk
Looks like the 41 (towards Acocks Green) after Springfield Road will turn left onto Stratford Road, right onto Formans Road, left onto Reddings Lane, right onto Olton Boulevard East and continue up to Spring Road station where it'll join its current line of route. Exactly the same as the current 36 then.
Junction between Formans Road turning left onto Stratford Road can be quite tight with the adjacent traffic waiting in the filter lane, so that'll be interesting.
** apologies for the double post
Looking at the 46 from QE, it looks like the 41's arrive at QE 5 mins before the 46 departs.
Certainly does look like they'll be interworking.
Still awaiting official confirmation.
96 after Smiths Wood is serving Timberley Lane, Brownfield Road, Heathway, Brookmeadow Road, Buckland End and Heathland Avenue to Castle Bromwich then as normal to Warren Farm Road a complicated route via Kingstanding Road and Old Oscott
X12 and X13 both every 30 minutes on Saturdays (combined every 15 minutes)
Shame the 96 isn't serving shard end crescent
4A extended to Solihull replacing 31
48 serving Gibbins Road to Weoley Castle, then as normal to Northfield
67 extended via Farnborough Road to Farnborough School replacing 38
X4 terminating at Falcon Lodge
Quote from: Jack D on August 11, 2021, 01:33:16 PM
Shame the 96 isn't serving shard end crescent
Clearly mirrors the 53. What is the future for that route? Will it be going?
No new timetable on there for X21/X22 yet as well.
It doesn't mirror 53, it goes straight down brownfield not turning left into old Croft lane
Quote from: Jack D on August 11, 2021, 03:56:44 PM
It doesn't mirror 53, it goes straight down brownfield not turning left into old Croft lane
Didn't notice that, I was looking at Brook Meadow Road, etc. Though its only a minor difference, so still makes you wonder if the 53 is going or being cut back
Looking quite likely the 20 and extended 27 will interwork in Cofton Hackett from the timetables
96 should go left onto old Croft lane, would see more footfall if you served shard end shops
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 11, 2021, 01:27:55 PM
96 after Smiths Wood is serving Timberley Lane, Brownfield Road, Heathway, Brookmeadow Road, Buckland End and Heathland Avenue to Castle Bromwich then as normal to Warren Farm Road a complicated route via Kingstanding Road and Old Oscott
X12 and X13 both every 30 minutes on Saturdays (combined every 15 minutes)
That's quite a big cut in the Saturday service in the Green Lane, Arden Hall, Water Orton Road area, 5 services per hour down to 2. Castle Bromwich Old Village also has quite a big cut, albeit less due to X70 / X13
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 11, 2021, 01:49:58 PM
...
67 extended via Farnborough Road to Farnborough School replacing 38
...
I interpreted it being the 67 just doing a one way loop round the whole Castle Vale estate, but I was wrong. Seems a strange choice to loop all the way round, terminate at the school then loop all the way back
Quote from: DJ on July 27, 2021, 04:41:34 AM
I wouldn't be too sure about that, the Sutton Lines branding still hasn't been amended to show Lichfield on the route map, as far as I know.
Unfortunately, the branding has not been amended.
The 96 is also turning right at the top of Kingfisher Drive onto Auckland Drive, left onto Lanchester Way and then going fully around there until Green Lane. Oh and it is still going to the Fort, and doing a loop of Old Oscott after Kingstanding?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 11, 2021, 01:27:55 PM
96 after Smiths Wood is serving Timberley Lane, Brownfield Road, Heathway, Brookmeadow Road, Buckland End and Heathland Avenue to Castle Bromwich then as normal to Warren Farm Road a complicated route via Kingstanding Road and Old Oscott
X12 and X13 both every 30 minutes on Saturdays (combined every 15 minutes)
I'm not sure what Saturday loadings are like, I admit. But I know at certain times of the day the X12/X70 are no less than bursting at the seams. I'm assuming it's mainly full of City to Castle Brom passengers?
Quote from: Gareth on August 11, 2021, 06:20:27 PM
I'm not sure what Saturday loadings are like, I admit. But I know at certain times of the day the X12/X70 are no less than bursting at the seams. I'm assuming it's mainly full of City to Castle Brom passengers?
They do seem to look very busy at times and the via Hams Hall journeys seem to be very busy as well. I think they run a duplicate for them or they used to.
Does the BC Staff Bus with the 76X still run.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on August 11, 2021, 06:32:09 PM
Don't know the loadings between Hunters Moon and Alum rock however what I've always wondered if it'd be better to have the 28 every 20 mins and a new 28A between Castle Vale and Kingstanding serving the old oscott portion of the 96 extension and the 67 extension the other end also every 20 mins.
Likewise the suggestion below, the 28 gets has good loads at certain times of day on Heartlands-Spitfire Island section I think as i've seen it with full loads at times. It probably wouldn't cope very well on a 20 min frequency.
Strange choice of route for the 96 in Kingstanding, would've at least thought it'd be an idea to put some bus stops along hurlingham road if that'll be the line of route. I've also thought that it may have been a better idea to perhaps extend the 52 to Kingstanding using its large recovery time rather than send the 96 on a loop. Regardless I believe the 52 should be extended to either Kingstanding or Queslett with its recovery. And with the 67 it is odd especially since it'll be served in evenings adding an extra bus to the Tyburn road or reducing the 65 layover at Perry Common to 1 minute. Don't know the loadings between Hunters Moon and Alum rock however what I've always wondered if it'd be better to have the 28 every 20 mins and a new 28A between Castle Vale and Kingstanding serving the old oscott portion of the 96 extension and the 67 extension the other end also every 20 mins.
Quote from: 2206 on August 11, 2021, 06:28:22 PM
They do seem to look very busy at times and the via Hams Hall journeys seem to be very busy as well. I think they run a duplicate for them or they used to.
Does the BC Staff Bus with the 76X still run. Likewise the suggestion below, the 28 gets has good loads at certain times of day on Heartlands-Spitfire Island section I think as i've seen it with full loads at times. It probably wouldn't cope very well on a 20 min frequency.
I see a fair few passengers alighting/boarding the X12 on Windward Way in the evenings. Not sure of Castle Bromwich village loadings, although I've not really seen many people waiting at bus stops up there, even when it was previous services there.
5 (City-Hall-Green-Solihull) and 73 (Solihull-Heartlands Hosp) both reduced to every 30 minutes
49 (Solihull-Rubery) reduced to every 20 minutes on Saturday
Does the 5 and 73 Interwork potentially?
In amongst all of the changes, the demise of the X20 marks the end of almost 100 years of Rednal having a direct link to the city centre with the tram from 1924 until 1952 followed by the 62 and its subsequent variations.
Quote from: gc802002 on August 11, 2021, 07:43:21 PM
Does the 5 and 73 Interwork potentially?
At first glance at the timetables, probably
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on August 11, 2021, 06:32:09 PM
Strange choice of route for the 96 in Kingstanding, would've at least thought it'd be an idea to put some bus stops along hurlingham road if that'll be the line of route. I've also thought that it may have been a better idea to perhaps extend the 52 to Kingstanding using its large recovery time rather than send the 96 on a loop. Regardless I believe the 52 should be extended to either Kingstanding or Queslett with its recovery. And with the 67 it is odd especially since it'll be served in evenings adding an extra bus to the Tyburn road or reducing the 65 layover at Perry Common to 1 minute. Don't know the loadings between Hunters Moon and Alum rock however what I've always wondered if it'd be better to have the 28 every 20 mins and a new 28A between Castle Vale and Kingstanding serving the old oscott portion of the 96 extension and the 67 extension the other end also every 20 mins.
52 would be good to Queslett via Old Oscott and keeping the 997 along Aldridge Road to speed up journey times. Also shame the 33 isn't being extended to Asda either...
I've noticed today the one side of stops on Aldridge Road now has the 89 on the flags... is the 96 replacing part of it in Old Oscott?
Quote from: Kevin on August 11, 2021, 04:12:17 PM
Looking quite likely the 20 and extended 27 will interwork in Cofton Hackett from the timetables
Certainly looks that way for daytimes as I notice that the 27 isn't running beyond Northfield in the evenings and on Sundays. Must be a long time since Northfield - Frankley - Rubery - Longbridge didn't have a link at these times.
Quote from: Jack on August 11, 2021, 09:06:40 PM
52 would be good to Queslett via Old Oscott and keeping the 997 along Aldridge Road to speed up journey times. Also shame the 33 isn't being extended to Asda either...
I've noticed today the one side of stops on Aldridge Road now has the 89 on the flags... is the 96 replacing part of it in Old Oscott?
I don't think the people of Old Oscott would be happy with that, your suggestion would add at least 15 minutes on their journey time to City on the 52.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 11, 2021, 09:17:44 PM
I don't think the people of Old Oscott would be happy with that, your suggestion would add at least 15 minutes on their journey time to City on the 52.
Would you think anyone would catch it to the city? People can easily change from the 52 to the 997... as well they will still have a direct link to Asda...
Quote from: Jack on August 11, 2021, 09:27:05 PM
Would you think anyone would catch it to the city? People can easily change from the 52 to the 997... as well they will still have a direct link to Asda...
I know people who live in Old Oscott and they were over the moon to say the least when the 997 started which was much faster than the 46 as it was then, I bet they would love your suggestion about a slower journey to Perry Barr and City or changing buses !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 11, 2021, 09:33:10 PM
I know people who live in Old Oscott and they were over the moon to say the least when the 997 started which was much faster than the 46 as it was then, I bet they would love your suggestion about a slower journey to Perry Barr and City or changing buses !
Look at what people in Perry Beeches do... people were over the moon when the 952 first started then it going back to and fourth... Most people here either change onto a 51 or X51 at Tower Hill or walk up and catch the 997 to the city... You can't please everyone or serve every single estate...
My only other option is when the new Lidl in Kingstanding is built and opened is to extend the 52 to the Circle, via Old Oscott and up Shady Lane and onto Kings Road, currently theres not much there that people here would really want to go exactly...
4A will now go via shirley straight to soilhull now right? And 41 will take the left onto strafford road and springfield road.
Quote from: bbs on August 11, 2021, 09:51:29 PM
4A will now go via shirley straight to soilhull now right? And 41 will take the left onto strafford road and springfield road.
The 4A will run as it does now to it's current terminus, then as the 31.
Quote from: SO6597 on August 11, 2021, 09:07:58 PM
Certainly looks that way for daytimes as I notice that the 27 isn't running beyond Northfield in the evenings and on Sundays. Must be a long time since Northfield - Frankley - Rubery - Longbridge didn't have a link at these times.
There is still a regular connection available from these areas at these times by changing between the 61 and 63 in Frankley. Both are still fairly frequent in the evenings and Sundays. I know there may be an odd road not covered at these times but most are walkable to the 61/63 routes.
So are they making the 45 more direct with the rerouting of the 27 in turves green, someone made a pretty good guess on the route the 27 would take to coften
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 11, 2021, 09:58:52 PM
So are they making the 45 more direct with the rerouting of the 27 in turves green, someone made a pretty good guess on the route the 27 would take to coften
The 45 timetable and map show an unchanged route.
Quote from: cardew on August 11, 2021, 12:47:40 PM
This page has been updated with new timetables www.travelinemidlands.co.uk
Looks like the TfWm website is in process of being updated, as I looked at Walsall 8, 9, 10 & 41
& their new timetables were accessible., but the 31 / 32 weren't.
(I assume it's in hand & it's nothing 'political '!)
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 11, 2021, 09:55:27 PM
The 4A will run as it does now to it's current terminus, then as the 31.
31 interworked with the 5 on Sundays will that happen with 4A too after the change?
Quote from: bbs on August 11, 2021, 10:19:33 PM
31 interworked with the 5 on Sundays will that happen with 4A too after the change?
Did it? Because I've seen Geminis on the 31 on Sundays before.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 11, 2021, 01:49:58 PM
48 serving Gibbins Road to Weoley Castle, then as normal to Northfield
I'm confused, the 48 currently goes via Bourneville, Cotteridge, Hawkesley and Turves Green?
What's the route from Weoley Castle to Northfield?
Quote from: MW on August 12, 2021, 12:47:05 AM
Did it? Because I've seen Geminis on the 31 on Sundays before.
Yeah, it does inter work with the 5 currently.
It used to be operated by ALX400s & Geminis. Not sure when it stopped
Quote from: MW on August 12, 2021, 12:47:05 AM
Did it? Because I've seen Geminis on the 31 on Sundays before.
it's now Fully E400MMC on Sundays interworking with the 5
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 12, 2021, 01:05:39 AM
I'm confused, the 48 currently goes via Bourneville, Cotteridge, Hawkesley and Turves Green?
What's the route from Weoley Castle to Northfield?
Nothing's been confirmed yet (despite it only being 17 days away) but it sounds like from Selly Oak it will go down Gibbins Road and then follow the X21 to Weoley Castle Square, then as it does currently to Northfield.
I can't imagine the route between Weoley Castle and Northfield will change.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 12, 2021, 07:06:43 AM
Nothing's been confirmed yet (despite it only being 17 days away) but it sounds like from Selly Oak it will go down Gibbins Road and then follow the X21 to Weoley Castle Square, then as it does currently to Northfield.
I can't imagine the route between Weoley Castle and Northfield will change.
The new timetable on Traveline shows it using Gregory Rd/Middle Park Rd/Swarthmore Rd between Weoley Castle and Northfield.
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 12, 2021, 01:05:39 AM
I'm confused, the 48 currently goes via Bourneville, Cotteridge, Hawkesley and Turves Green?
The new 46 is replacing the the section of route between QE and Northfield, operated by AG according to the timetable so looks like it's interworking with the new 41.
Will we see joint branding for X12/13 and 94/95?
Quote from: Jack D on August 12, 2021, 07:36:31 AM
Will we see joint branding for X12/13 and 94/95?
I doubt it, the X12/X13/94 serve Castle Bromwich but the 95 doesn't and even though they all serve Chelmsley Wood but the X13 is indirect.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 12, 2021, 07:06:43 AM
Nothing's been confirmed yet (despite it only being 17 days away) but it sounds like from Selly Oak it will go down Gibbins Road and then follow the X21 to Weoley Castle Square, then as it does currently to Northfield.
I can't imagine the route between Weoley Castle and Northfield will change.
The 48 has been confirmed, here is the timetable http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/EFA03__000024ae_TP.pdf
Here is the map http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_GEOOBJECT_REQUEST?language=en&command=bothDirections&line=cen:33048:S:H:y11:5:5::1:21&hideBannerInfo=1&coordOutputFormat=MRCV
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 12, 2021, 08:03:54 AM
I doubt it, the X12/X13/94 serve Castle Bromwich but the 95 doesn't and even though they all serve Chelmsley Wood but the X13 is indirect.
He probably means separate joint X12/X13 branding and joint 94/95 branding.
94/95 corridor could be branded as City Centre to Ward End every 4 mins. Like the joint 23/24 corridor City Centre to Harborne branding possibly.
And X12/X13 corridor could receive separate branding to it.
Quote from: 2206 on August 12, 2021, 10:02:18 AM
He probably means separate joint X12/X13 branding and joint 94/95 branding.
94/95 corridor could be branded as City Centre to Ward End every 4 mins. Like the joint 23/24 corridor City Centre to Harborne branding possibly.
And X12/X13 corridor could receive separate branding to it.
To maximise branding why not brand them as 'Chelmsley Network', then they could include the 14 and 97 as well
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 12, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
To maximise branding why not brand them as 'Chelmsley Network', then they could include the 14 and 97 as well
That wouldn't promote where they go in between.
As the 97 goes past other important places like Heartlands Hospital etc, 14 serves the Alum Rock Road, 94/95 serve Ward End & Washwood Heath and X12/X13 are Fast to Castle Bromwich and serve Coleshill, Airport, Solihull, etc.
X21 - Extended to Woodgate (X22 terminus) X22 - route unchanged
Both every 20 minutes each as they are now (now every 10 minutes City-University) the AM peaks are up to every 15 minutes each
X21 - timetable http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/EFA03__00003eb7_TP.pdf
X22 - timetable http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/EFA03__00006ab0_TP.pdf
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 12, 2021, 10:45:38 AM
X21 - Extended to Woodgate (X22 terminus) X22 - route unchanged
Both every 20 minutes each as they are now (now every 10 minutes City-University) the AM peaks are up to every 15 minutes each
X21 - timetable http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/EFA03__00003eb7_TP.pdf
X22 - timetable http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/EFA03__00006ab0_TP.pdf
The link isn't working. Every 10 minutes combined is going to cause a problem when the students go back to the Uni fully.
Also if the new terminus is Woodgate, what was the point of another registration change just to alter the terminus point from Woodgate to Bartley Green?
Quote from: SO6597 on August 12, 2021, 07:32:34 AM
The new timetable on Traveline shows it using Gregory Rd/Middle Park Rd/Swarthmore Rd between Weoley Castle and Northfield.
If you mean Gregory Avenue, it won't serve that road. But yes, that's the way it goes now anyway which is what I said.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 12, 2021, 08:06:47 AM
The 48 has been confirmed, here is the timetable http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/EFA03__000024ae_TP.pdf
Here is the map http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_GEOOBJECT_REQUEST?language=en&command=bothDirections&line=cen:33048:S:H:y11:5:5::1:21&hideBannerInfo=1&coordOutputFormat=MRCV
My apologies, I meant confirmed by NX on their website for the public who won't know about these other sites...
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 12, 2021, 10:46:27 AM
The link isn't working. Every 10 minutes combined is going to cause a problem when the students go back to the Uni fully.
Also if the new terminus is Woodgate, what was the point of another registration change just to alter the terminus point from Woodgate to Bartley Green?
Also its being routed along Woodcock Lane and Cromwell Lane in both directions it appears.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 12, 2021, 10:45:38 AM
X21 - Extended to Woodgate (X22 terminus) X22 - route unchanged
Both every 20 minutes each as they are now (now every 10 minutes City-University) the AM peaks are up to every 15 minutes each
X21 - timetable http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/EFA03__00003eb7_TP.pdf
X22 - timetable http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/EFA03__00006ab0_TP.pdf
Interesting choice of route for the X21, up Field Lane to the main Bartley Green stops then down Romsley Road / Adams Hill to the Woodgate terminus. means city bound X21 & X22 stop on opposite sides of Romsley Road to each other
To be honest, except for the odd cut here and there, the changes aren't as broad as I thought they were going to be.
Quote from: Kevin on August 12, 2021, 12:44:02 PM
Interesting choice of route for the X21, up Field Lane to the main Bartley Green stops then down Romsley Road / Adams Hill to the Woodgate terminus. means city bound X21 & X22 stop on opposite sides of Romsley Road to each other
So will the X21 do same route as 002 between Weoley castle and Bartley green?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 12, 2021, 02:30:25 PM
So will the X21 do same route as 002 between Weoley castle and Bartley green?
No.
The 12 running every half an hour to Dudley in the evenings is an interesting change, I didn't realise the Oldbury to Dudley section of the route was that busy in the evening
The 12, 12A, 13 & 13A timetables look much more in sync.
I guess this is down to the 13 & 13A not having to solely carry the Portland Road/City Road burden
41 is every 30 min and so is 46 which shows they may interwork. I wont keep my hopes up for this though
Quote from: bbs on August 12, 2021, 03:47:45 PM
41 is every 30 min and so is 46 which shows they may interwork. I wont keep my hopes up for this though
Given the time both services arrive at the QE, they'll either have a long layover or interwork
41 - http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/EFA03__00003fcd_TP.pdf
46 - http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/EFA03__000039e8_TP.pdf
17A to one AM journey to Stourbridge and one PM journey back to Dudley also rerouted from Gornal to Dudley via more direct route
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&command=direct&net=cen&line=3317A&sup=N&itdLPxx_direction=H&project=y11&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&itdLPxx_sessionID=EFA03_57095781&lineVer=16&itdLPxx_spTr=16&itdLPxx_operatorCodeForTTB=NXB
Regarding the new 20 service, according to Traveline, this is to be operated by Yardley Wood garage.
Looking at the times this arrives at and departs from Parsonage Drive (Cofton Hackett), I'm going to hazard a guess that this is going to interwork with the 27 service? Which would also partially explain the 27's extension from Longbridge station.
As for the 46, while this is shown as operated from Acocks Green garage, as the Sunday journeys only operate between Northfield and Cotteridge/Kings Norton, I wouldn't be surprised if Yardley Wood operated those journeys, would make more sense to me.
Quote from: Kevin on August 12, 2021, 12:44:02 PM
Interesting choice of route for the X21, up Field Lane to the main Bartley Green stops then down Romsley Road / Adams Hill to the Woodgate terminus. means city bound X21 & X22 stop on opposite sides of Romsley Road to each other
Just had a look at the map myself and I see what you mean, that is a strange one. I guess people will just have to look at the app and see which one is due first!
Looking at the new WN81 tt on Traveline, it seems that the 0700/1700 ex Wolves continues to Merry Hill
Also the 0725/2320 ex Dudley start at Wolverhampton
And it looks on the map that it is going back down the Priory Road route
X10 is now turning left at Brierley Hill Police Station to serve Wallows Road looking at the maps, then running to Holly Hall
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 12, 2021, 06:34:50 PM
Just had a look at the map myself and I see what you mean, that is a strange one. I guess people will just have to look at the app and see which one is due first!
It's strange but actually quite good.
The Bartley Woods and Carmel Grove stops (which the 23 used to use before it got rerouted to Newman University) will now be served again, meaning all of Adams Hill now has some bus service (which was campaigned for a while back now).
I do appreciate the fact that NX considered that.
Quote from: mesub on August 12, 2021, 07:48:42 PM
It's strange but actually quite good.
The Bartley Woods and Carmel Grove stops (which the 23 used to use before it got rerouted to Newman University) will now be served again, meaning all of Adams Hill now has some bus service (which was campaigned for a while back now).
I do appreciate the fact that NX considered that.
Just a thought but with the X21 now going to Bartley Green, the 23 could return to its old line of route avoiding having buses to Birmingham stopping on opposite sides of the road on Romsley Road.
Quote from: mesub on August 12, 2021, 07:48:42 PM
It's strange but actually quite good.
The Bartley Woods and Carmel Grove stops (which the 23 used to use before it got rerouted to Newman University) will now be served again, meaning all of Adams Hill now has some bus service (which was campaigned for a while back now).
I do appreciate the fact that NX considered that.
I'm glad the X21 will now go by Newman University, that link shouldn't have gone in the first place.
One weird thing I noticed on the map though is that it's showing the X21 going a different way inbound than outbound along Cromwell Lane. Turning right onto Moors Lane then Briidgburn Road and Farwood Road. That doesn't seem right. Surely it would just go all the way down Cromwell Lane and turn right onto Woodcock Lane.
Quote from: Stu on August 12, 2021, 06:31:56 PM
Regarding the new 20 service, according to Traveline, this is to be operated by Yardley Wood garage.
Looking at the times this arrives at and departs from Parsonage Drive (Cofton Hackett), I'm going to hazard a guess that this is going to interwork with the 27 service? Which would also partially explain the 27's extension from Longbridge station.
As for the 46, while this is shown as operated from Acocks Green garage, as the Sunday journeys only operate between Northfield and Cotteridge/Kings Norton, I wouldn't be surprised if Yardley Wood operated those journeys, would make more sense to me.
Still confused why AG got the 46 when YW should have it fully.
I wouldn't fully trust the maps on traveline.
The one for the 96 doesn't show it running along danesbury crescent or Hurlingham rd but it will serve those rds
Quote from: Steveminor on August 12, 2021, 08:42:38 PM
I wouldn't fully trust the maps on traveline.
The one for the 96 doesn't show it running along danesbury crescent or Hurlingham rd but it will serve those rds
Yeah, I won't it just amused me a little. Although it does say the X21 will only serve the Bartley Drive stop on Cromwell Lane in only one direction.
Quote from: Steveminor on August 12, 2021, 08:42:38 PM
I wouldn't fully trust the maps on traveline.
The one for the 96 doesn't show it running along danesbury crescent or Hurlingham rd but it will serve those rds
I'm not sure but is this any help https://legacy.wmnetwork.co.uk/plan-your-journey/find-a-timetable/#/route/cen_33096_P_H_y11_20-20
Quote from: bbs on August 12, 2021, 08:39:15 PM
Still confused why AG got the 46 when YW should have it fully.
It's not confirmed who's got either, until confirmed fully take info without evidence with a pinch of salt
Quote from: bbs on August 12, 2021, 08:39:15 PM
Still confused why AG got the 46 when YW should have it fully.
How do you know once garage could do it more efficiently when you don't even know the details of how it is going to run?
Quote from: BK63 YWP on August 12, 2021, 09:01:01 PM
It's not confirmed who's got either, until confirmed fully take info without evidence with a pinch of salt
On the Traveline timetable it does state that it is operated by Acocks Green garage.
Quote from: Stu on August 12, 2021, 06:31:56 PM
As for the 46, while this is shown as operated from Acocks Green garage, as the Sunday journeys only operate between Northfield and Cotteridge/Kings Norton, I wouldn't be surprised if Yardley Wood operated those journeys, would make more sense to me.
Sunday 46 to Interwork with 27 perhaps?
Quote from: sonic84 on August 12, 2021, 08:12:23 PM
Just a thought but with the X21 now going to Bartley Green, the 23 could return to its old line of route avoiding having buses to Birmingham stopping on opposite sides of the road on Romsley Road.
I had a hard think about it a while ago and it's just not possible due to the layout of Bartley Green and the surrounding areas. It would be hard to serve Newman University and still serve the majority of stops that it uses
and also have the Romsley Road stops the "right" way without cutting stops out or looping around (which would cause even more confusion than it does currently).
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 12, 2021, 08:30:14 PM
I'm glad the X21 will now go by Newman University, that link shouldn't have gone in the first place.
One weird thing I noticed on the map though is that it's showing the X21 going a different way inbound than outbound along Cromwell Lane. Turning right onto Moors Lane then Briidgburn Road and Farwood Road. That doesn't seem right. Surely it would just go all the way down Cromwell Lane and turn right onto Woodcock Lane.
I'm not that sure, but wouldn't that side of woodcock lane be slightly harder to manoeuvre? (Compared to now)
Quote from: bbs on August 12, 2021, 08:39:15 PM
Still confused why AG got the 46 when YW should have it fully.
How would drivers get to the QE / Northfield to takeover from YW? They'd have to travel which the company pays for. There's no driver travelling time if it's operated by AG. Driver relief points are right outside AG depot.
Think of the 46 as the 1A extended to Northfield. Only difference being it changes numbers at QE.
Quote from: mesub on August 12, 2021, 11:36:21 PM
I'm not that sure, but wouldn't that side of woodcock lane be slightly harder to manoeuvre? (Compared to now)
Possibly might be difficult but I can't see Bridgeburn Road and Farwood Road being any better really.
Quote from: MW on August 13, 2021, 01:04:54 AM
How would drivers get to the QE / Northfield to takeover from YW? They'd have to travel which the company pays for. There's no driver travelling time if it's operated by AG. Driver relief points are right outside AG depot.
Think of the 46 as the 1A extended to Northfield. Only difference being it changes numbers at QE.
oh right
Quote from: gc802002 on August 12, 2021, 09:21:47 PM
Sunday 46 to Interwork with 27 perhaps?
I can't see how that would be possible as neither route shares a common terminus point.
So August 29th is just over two weeks away now, and still NOTHING officially published on NXWM or NXC websites.
I really hope that something will be announced in the next week, otherwise it is all going to end up being left to the last minute, with passengers given little opportunity to make adjustments to their travel arrangements if needed.
Quote from: Stu on August 14, 2021, 04:43:26 PM
So August 29th is just over two weeks away now, and still NOTHING officially published on NXWM or NXC websites.
I really hope that something will be announced in the next week, otherwise it is all going to end up being left to the last minute, with passengers given little opportunity to make adjustments to their travel arrangements if needed.
I agree entirely, the timetables have been available on Traveline for nearly a week now, there is no reason for NXM not to publish these changes. I'm expecting them to come out on Sunday evening.
Intrigued that the Walsall 31 & 32 timetables on TfWM site are still the current ones.
Even the supposed link to the new timetable doesn't work properly, as it's still a joint timetable rather than separate by operator.
(And these were the first ones flagged up, albeit by Diamond, who have promoted leaving the partnership & it's associated changes. Nothing on the NX Walsall vehicles I've caught yet.
Day 1 will be interesting, with the arguments between passenger & driver about ticket validity!)
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 14, 2021, 05:06:53 PM
I'm expecting them to come out on Sunday evening.
It would be during the week, as I don't think the 'office' teams work at weekends.
Quote from: Westy on August 14, 2021, 05:50:39 PM
Day 1 will be interesting, with the arguments between passenger & driver about ticket validity!)
The later this is left, the worse the arguments will be.
Many people may be on 'summer holidays' themselves, so like I said, some good advance notice would be handy, so that people can plan and make changes to their normal travelling routine well ahead of September.
YW 27 will interwork with the 20
AG new service 41 replacing 1A will interwork with the 46
It's probably a stupid question, but looking at the timetables on Traveline, the X21 and X22 are scheduled to leave at the same time or thereabouts from Field Lane each time, why is that?
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 14, 2021, 08:38:09 PM
It's probably a stupid question, but looking at the timetables on Traveline, the X21 and X22 are scheduled to leave at the same time or thereabouts from Field Lane each time, why is that?
The X21 is extended, so running time will most definitely be longer. It should hopefully balance out to a roughly 10 minute gap by the time they reach University Station.
The 61/3 departs around the same time from the Frankley Terminus (previously looking at the timetable).
Quote from: mesub on August 14, 2021, 08:41:56 PM
The X21 is extended, so running time will most definitely be longer. It should hopefully balance out to a roughly 10 minute gap by the time they reach University Station.
The 61/3 departs around the same time from the Frankley Terminus (previously looking at the timetable).
Ah yeah, X21 journeys appear to take roughly 7 minutes longer. They are timetabled every 10 mins at the station.
Quote from: Stu on August 14, 2021, 06:02:26 PM
It would be during the week, as I don't think the 'office' teams work at weekends.
The later this is left, the worse the arguments will be.
Many people may be on 'summer holidays' themselves, so like I said, some good advance notice would be handy, so that people can plan and make changes to their normal travelling routine well ahead of September.
I've given the Facebook group I'm a member of, the heads up of what I've learned so far for Walsall, with the disclaimer to wait for the official NX info to pop up, but it seems strange how TfWM(bearing in mind they haven't published their weekly service changes for ages, due to the pandemic!) can publish their information online & yet NX hasn't even made any comment publicly.
The only thing known so far, as far as passengers are concerned, is the notice on Diamond buses promoting their 'change' to the Partnership routes!
4540 route learning rerouted 27 and 7
Nx have told me all the changes Just saying 😂
Quote from: karl724223 on August 15, 2021, 02:54:44 PM
Nx have told me all the changes Just saying 😂
How and can you tell us this info?
I seen a Gemini 1 price branded on formans road not sure if its route learning or etc
1874 seen route learning new 96 route through shard end
This is getting ridiculous, these changes start in 13 days time and still nothing on the website !
Quote from: Jack D on August 15, 2021, 05:33:56 PM
How and can you tell us this info?
Karl works for them.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 16, 2021, 05:19:26 PM
This is getting ridiculous, these changes start in 13 days time and still nothing on the website !
Late notice to stop protesting and objecting to local councillers and mps.
Quote from: PB2938 on August 16, 2021, 07:22:06 PM
Late notice to stop protesting and objecting to local councillers and mps.
That's ridiculous
They should give plenty of notice to passengers so people are aware the changes are going ahead in just under 2 weeks time and have time to plan and change there journeys. And there should also have notices onboard including the ones people can take with them.
At this rate they'll probably announce them up the evening before they start.
Quote from: 2206 on August 16, 2021, 07:26:21 PM
That's ridiculous
They should give plenty of notice to passengers so people are aware the changes are going ahead in September and have time to plan and change there journeys. And there should also have notices onboard including the ones people can take with them.
well National Express have the monopoly anyway so you would just have to deal with it and adapt to the changes
Quote from: 2206 on August 16, 2021, 07:26:21 PM
That's ridiculous
They should give plenty of notice to passengers so people are aware the changes are going ahead in just under 2 weeks time and have time to plan and change there journeys. And there should also have notices onboard including the ones people can take with them.
At this rate they'll probably announce them up the evening before they start.
Bit of a daft comment.
The last few changes have been announced 9 days before, which in all fairness is plenty of time. I'd expect it this Friday.
Quote from: Dom on August 16, 2021, 07:58:07 PM
Bit of a daft comment.
Its not, as they don't seem to be able to get their act together and publish the changes. People will want to know the changes, well in advance. And there will need to be notices/flyers onboard buses which aren't in place yet so the people who don't check the NX website including elderly, etc are aware.
And the changes will probably go down a lot better if people know what is happening in advance, which was my point.
One thing that's apparent is that since the redevelopment of the QE, and the changes to the south west Birmingham routes that have happened ever since, NX still hasn't produced a network that has worked and lasted for long.
The X64 underwent a farcical amount of changes before being replaced by the X21, which, ironically, will soon be very similar to one of the iterations of the X64. The replacement for the old 21 between Harborne Green Man, the QE and Bartley Green has chopped and changed repeatedly. The 48 is now not far behind the old x64 in the number of times the route after the QE has changed. The 27 has been repeatedly tinkered with, the section of the old 29 route between Harborne and Northfield has already changed twice, and the bus route along Black Haynes Road changes more often than some people change their underwear.
The routes for the X21, X22 and 23 around Bartley Green, in an attempt to serve as many roads as possible, require a Geography degree to understand what goes where and in which direction.
I appreciate that the latest changes have been brought on by a drop in passenger numbers and revenue due to COVID, but if I lived along the impacted routes (my section of the 23 hasn't changed and works well), and used them regularly, I'd be pretty fed up with it all by now.
This is a detailed information from NX about the 96 after I messaged them this afternoon about it being only 13 days before the changes and they need to think about passengers:
96 - The service will extend to Old Oscott, change to serve Warren Farm and also change between Castle Bromwich and Chelmsley Wood. In Kingstanding, the terminus will change to Kingstanding Road, outside Kingstanding library.
From Kingstanding Circle, buses will extend along a one way loop of Old Oscott, along Kingstanding Road, Templeton Road, Thorncliffe Road, Shady Lane, Oscott School Lane, Old Oscott Lane, Dyas Road, Birdbrook Road, Old Oscott Hill and Kingstanding Road to Kingstanding Circle.
Between Kingstanding Circle and College Road, buses will run along Kings Road, Harringay Road, Hurlingham Road, Danesbury Crescent, Warren Farm Road, Brackenbury Road and College Road.
Between Castle Bromwich and Chelmsley Wood, buses will run along Bradford Road, Heathland Avenue, Buckland End, Brook Meadow Road, Heath Way, Brownfield Road, Timberley Lane, Chester Road, Hurst Lane North, Green Lane, Lanchester Way, Auckland Drive, Kingfisher Drive, Burtons Way, Windward Way, Buckingham Road, Chester Road and Moorend Avenue to Chelmsley Wood Interchange.
Agreed. The number of changes between the QE and Bartley Green / Northfield has been crazy over the last 10 yeara. I also suspected it was only going to be a matter of time before the X21 was extended back to Bartley Green.
I know I always used to moan about 94 castle Brom routes treatment, but since creation of x12 / x13 castle Brom seems to have done well from these recent changes
Quote from: Mike K on August 16, 2021, 08:01:32 PM
One thing that's apparent is that since the redevelopment of the QE, and the changes to the south west Birmingham routes that have happened ever since, NX still hasn't produced a network that has worked and lasted for long.
The X64 underwent a farcical amount of changes before being replaced by the X21, which, ironically, will soon be very similar to one of the iterations of the X64. The replacement for the old 21 between Harborne Green Man, the QE and Bartley Green has chopped and changed repeatedly. The 48 is now not far behind the old x64 in the number of times the route after the QE has changed. The 27 has been repeatedly tinkered with, the section of the old 29 route between Harborne and Northfield has already changed twice, and the bus route along Black Haynes Road changes more often than some people change their underwear.
The routes for the X21, X22 and 23 around Bartley Green, in an attempt to serve as many roads as possible, require a Geography degree to understand what goes where and in which direction.
I appreciate that the latest changes have been brought on by a drop in passenger numbers and revenue due to COVID, but if I lived along the impacted routes (my section of the 23 hasn't changed and works well), and used them regularly, I'd be pretty fed up with it all by now.
There was also the 99, X61 (which reverted back to the 61 after not very long), X62 (Bizzare route only going as far as the Town Hall), etc. And I guess the 29th sees the end of the 98/X20 route as its been running for the last 10 years or so Rednal - City Centre as it no longer runs into the City Centre.
Probably won't be long before they all change again though, if most routes are running at a loss, as they can't forever I guess.
Quote from: Tony on August 03, 2021, 09:06:51 PM
Unfortunately cost savings have to be made at the moment. Funding isn't just 'make up your losses' any more and with less than 70% of passengers currently returned almost every route is currently loss making.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 16, 2021, 10:23:48 PM
I actually find it quite amusing that out of the 98/99/X64 only the X64 goes to the City Centre anymore (albeit in a different guise). Nobody would've thought that at the time.
I am a little surprised they didn't just drop the X and change it to 21/22 given all the other renumbering happening anyway.
And you wouldn't have thought it'd be just be 23/24 on the Harborne corridor and X21/X22 on the University corridor into the City Centre.
Or even U21/U22 like Stagecoach Leamington and First Kernow routes, it'd probably be better than the X.
Quote from: Mike K on August 16, 2021, 08:01:32 PM
One thing that's apparent is that since the redevelopment of the QE, and the changes to the south west Birmingham routes that have happened ever since, NX still hasn't produced a network that has worked and lasted for long.
The X64 underwent a farcical amount of changes before being replaced by the X21, which, ironically, will soon be very similar to one of the iterations of the X64. The replacement for the old 21 between Harborne Green Man, the QE and Bartley Green has chopped and changed repeatedly. The 48 is now not far behind the old x64 in the number of times the route after the QE has changed. The 27 has been repeatedly tinkered with, the section of the old 29 route between Harborne and Northfield has already changed twice, and the bus route along Black Haynes Road changes more often than some people change their underwear.
The routes for the X21, X22 and 23 around Bartley Green, in an attempt to serve as many roads as possible, require a Geography degree to understand what goes where and in which direction.
I appreciate that the latest changes have been brought on by a drop in passenger numbers and revenue due to COVID, but if I lived along the impacted routes (my section of the 23 hasn't changed and works well), and used them regularly, I'd be pretty fed up with it all by now.
I actually find it quite amusing that out of the 98/99/X64 only the X64 goes to the City Centre anymore (albeit in a different guise). Nobody would've thought that at the time.
I am a little surprised they didn't just drop the X and change it to 21/22 given all the other renumbering happening anyway.
the 4A frequency will stay the same right? And 41 ( 1A ) too?
Quote from: bbs on August 16, 2021, 11:10:49 PM
the 4A frequency will stay the same right? And 41 ( 1A ) too?
41 (1A) - down to every 30 minutes. Sunday & Late Nights withdrawn.
1 - up to every 15 minutes.
4A - Every 15 minutes to Gosepl Oak every 30 to Solihull.
Someone might want to have a look.
Sure I've just seen an Nx Walsall 31 timetable post 29th August online!
Yep your correct, nothing about the changes though , no new 96 timetable on there.
New 96 tt is on the network west Midlands site
All the new NX bus timetables are on the official website.
The PN 17 down to hourly for the whole route no more kingswinford shorts and once a day in each direction 17A.
Will 58 be interworking with another route as obviously 31 has gone?? Could it be 4A as obviously that is every half hour to Solihull?
Quote from: Jack D on August 17, 2021, 12:14:21 PM
Will 58 be interworking with another route as obviously 31 has gone?? Could it be 4A as obviously that is every half hour to Solihull?
Dosent the 4A already interwork with the normal 4
Quote from: Jack D on August 17, 2021, 12:14:21 PM
Will 58 be interworking with another route as obviously 31 has gone?? Could it be 4A as obviously that is every half hour to Solihull?
I could be wrong, but it looks like the 58 will be self contained
Hmmmm. Pity the PN14 and PN2 don't swap routes after Dudley in the new changes as we'd be seeing shades of a certain Sundays 90s route...
Quote from: bbs on August 17, 2021, 12:03:58 PM
All the new NX bus timetables are on the official website.
So I see. The X21 timetable for 29th still says Woodcock Hill - Birmingham despite showing timing points from Field Lane lol.
Unless there's some sort of mistake on the NX timetable, it looks like the X21 is starting at Field Lane rather than the Woodgate Terminus like the X22.
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 17, 2021, 12:59:25 PM
I could be wrong, but it looks like the 58 will be self contained
Yeah Probably
Changes are all up on the NX website
All the changes at last !
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/timetable-and-route-changes-from-29th-august-2021
Looks like the 42 at Dudley is 20mins
And 43 Is every 20 combo of the 2 services are every 10 mins between Tipton and Dudley
Isn't there a route change for the PN7?
Quote from: bususer28 on August 17, 2021, 02:37:03 PM
Unless there's some sort of mistake on the NX timetable, it looks like the X21 is starting at Field Lane rather than the Woodgate Terminus like the X22.
It isn't a mistake as there's a map showing the extension to Bartley Green section of the route on the main August changes page. The terminus will be the Field Lane / Romsley Road junction, where the 18 terminates.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on August 17, 2021, 04:07:00 PM
Isn't there a route change for the PN7?
Just a timetable change, Evening shorts between Stourbridge and Wynall will no longer run
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 17, 2021, 04:27:48 PM
Just a timetable change, Evening shorts between Stourbridge and Wynall will no longer run
@Steve3229vp thanks for that, strange it hasn't been mentioned in the changes.
Quote from: bususer28 on August 17, 2021, 02:37:03 PM
Unless there's some sort of mistake on the NX timetable, it looks like the X21 is starting at Field Lane rather than the Woodgate Terminus like the X22.
It may he a stupid question but why are they roughly every 15 minutes each in the AM peak but every 20 in the PM peak?
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 17, 2021, 05:06:56 PM
It may he a stupid question but why are they roughly every 15 minutes each in the AM peak but every 20 in the PM peak?
Random guess, but the students all piling on in the morning but there being less of them in the afternoon?
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 17, 2021, 05:06:56 PM
It may he a stupid question but why are they roughly every 15 minutes each in the AM peak but every 20 in the PM peak?
I think it's because in the morning peak passengers travel more closely together over a smaller period of time. Also in the PM the school is just before the main rush hour whereas the AM has the school run happening at the same time as the main rush hour.
Quote from: Mike K on August 17, 2021, 04:26:21 PM
It isn't a mistake as there's a map showing the extension to Bartley Green section of the route on the main August changes page. The terminus will be the Field Lane / Romsley Road junction, where the 18 terminates.
Yeah, I thought the X21 and X22 were both terminating at the Woodgate stop.
Smart move cause now services to Birmingham in the area are on the same side of the road (on the traveline map they were on opposite sides)
I'm confused as to why the 96 doesn't go down to serve shard end shops would make sense to and would probably pick up more passengers.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 17, 2021, 05:14:19 PM
I think it's because in the morning peak passengers travel more closely together over a smaller period of time. Also in the PM the school is just before the main rush hour whereas the AM has the school run happening at the same time as the main rush hour.
Fair enough.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned, the Uni-Selly Oak link now down to every 20 minutes instead of every 10 mins (give or take).
I've noticed people that have used the link from the 61/63 to the QE etc too.
Quote from: ellspurs on August 17, 2021, 05:12:02 PM
Random guess, but the students all piling on in the morning but there being less of them in the afternoon?
They used to be packed/full pre covid in the afternoons the times I used them (Selly Oak/Uni Station - City), not sure about now though. COVID might have affected the passenger numbers on them perhaps. It was standing room only a lot of the time.
Quote from: Mike K on August 17, 2021, 04:26:21 PM
It isn't a mistake as there's a map showing the extension to Bartley Green section of the route on the main August changes page. The terminus will be the Field Lane / Romsley Road junction, where the 18 terminates.
Explains why the registration changed to Bartley Green.
Now, any chance of Diamond pulling their finger out & getting their updated timetables online, seeing they sparked this off, by sticking notices on buses?
Quote from: Jack D on August 17, 2021, 06:03:05 PM
I'm confused as to why the 96 doesn't go down to serve shard end shops would make sense to and would probably pick up more passengers.
I thought that as well, I think it better to run via Hurst Lane, Packington Avenue to Timberley Lane
The updates very to the point, without any marketing spin about how these will benefit passengers bla bla bla. Fair play.
I like how they've said the 48 will be changing route between QE & Northfield but not actually expanding on that. Why are there route maps for some and not others?
They normally try to justify why they have made changes. Maybe a new marketing team or they know they have a monopoly so don't have too.
Quote from: Jack D on August 17, 2021, 06:03:05 PM
I'm confused as to why the 96 doesn't go down to serve shard end shops would make sense to and would probably pick up more passengers.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 17, 2021, 06:16:20 PM
I thought that as well, I think it better to run via Hurst Lane, Packington Avenue to Timberley Lane
The layover time is 5 minutes in Kingstanding and 6 minutes in Chelmsley Wood. Would following the 53 route (up Old Croft Lane) to the shops cut into that too much?
Doing Hurst Lane - Packington Avenue would mean the buses miss the stop on Timberley Lane for the shops there.
All the new data seems to have been added to Google Maps already as well.
Good assessment. I very much doubt there would be time to go to shard end shops its going to be tight as it is.
I fully expect there to be delays to the 96 route
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 17, 2021, 06:04:54 PM
Fair enough.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned, the Uni-Selly Oak link now down to every 20 minutes instead of every 10 mins (give or take).
I've noticed people that have used the link from the 61/63 to the QE etc too.
The x20/X21 were always busier than the x22 as lots of people used these services to selly oak. Let's hope passenger numbers don't recover otherwise we could be in for some uncomfortable journeys. I welcome the x21 extension though. 2 buses I can use from Bartley green now
Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 17, 2021, 06:58:03 PM
Let's hope passenger numbers don't recover otherwise we could be in for some uncomfortable journeys.
Thats a very negative and selfish way of looking at this. These changes have come about because passenger numbers
haven't recovered.
And if passenger levels
don't increase, then bus companies will have no choice but to cut services further.
Quote from: bususer28 on August 17, 2021, 05:49:59 PM
Yeah, I thought the X21 and X22 were both terminating at the Woodgate stop.
Smart move cause now services to Birmingham in the area are on the same side of the road (on the traveline map they were on opposite sides)
Is that correct though? The description of changes to the X21 says it turns from Field Lane into Romsley Road, terminates at the first stop and then makes a u-turn at the central reservation to wait time at the stop opposite. It then turns right onto Field Lane to resume service at the first stop on Field Lane. That means that the X21 and X22 towards the QE and city use different stops at the Romsley Road / Field Lane junction, unless I've misunderstood?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 17, 2021, 06:58:03 PM
The x20/X21 were always busier than the x22 as lots of people used these services to selly oak. Let's hope passenger numbers don't recover otherwise we could be in for some uncomfortable journeys. I welcome the x21 extension though. 2 buses I can use from Bartley green now
I was a little surprised the 48 isn't going to properly serve Selly Oak as well, like it currently does.
I mean Gibbins Road had a service before didn't it and the 48 was withdrawn probably because of low usage and then the 10S randomly served it for a brief while after and that also stopped. Do they expect anyone along there is going use it, or not along there?
So is the 48 running direct from QE to weoley castle now then? Also on the changes they state passengers on the 20 can change onto the x21/x22 at QE hospital. The X21/X22 aren't serving QE hospital?
Quote from: 2206 on August 17, 2021, 07:42:50 PM
Not on the 96 route towards Erdington no. From Bucklands End it goes left out of Heathland Avenue so next stop is the M6 Island.
The 56 used to go up Heathland Ave as well.
Sorry I got it confused with Heath Way.
Hopefully sense will prevail and TfWM will add some bus stops in at the places that need them.
I note nx are now letting people know the partnership routes are coming to an end
Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 17, 2021, 07:48:24 PM
So is the 48 running direct from QE to weoley castle now then? Also on the changes they state passengers on the 20 can change onto the x21/x22 at QE hospital. The X21/X22 aren't serving QE hospital?
The QE is a 2 min walk away from Uni Station. As far as bus stop transitions go the other option would maybe he the X21 at New Fosse Way.
Quote from: Steveminor on August 17, 2021, 07:52:24 PM
I note nx are now letting people know the partnership routes are coming to an end
Will be interesting to see how quickly buses get debranded
Looking at the new services:
20 to be operated by YW
46 to be operated by AG
The 48 seems to be serving Weoley Castle and then Northfield.
The only issue I find with the X21 extension (heading outbound) is that, due to the way stops are placed in Bartley Green, there's a large stop distance between the Jiggins Lane stop and the Carmel Grove one, so the Adams Hill/Romsley Road Junction isn't being served.
That being said though, there's only a few stops left anyway and there are plenty of other routes you could use to get to Field Lane (or just walk it!).
These new routes seem to avoid the city centre, so no clean air zone. I wonder what vehicles will be allocated?
Quote from: mesub on August 17, 2021, 09:49:28 PM
These new routes seem to avoid the city centre, so no clean air zone. I wonder what vehicles will be allocated?
Very likely:
20 Scania.
41/46 B7TL.
X21/X22 Platinum.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 17, 2021, 08:09:45 PM
Will be interesting to see how quickly buses get debranded
As I've said before, Diamond will have the most work with the debranding, certainly with the 31 / 32, as they'll have to remove reference to the 32 for starters as well as the 'every 3 mins' frequency.
All Nx will have to do is change the frequency.
I assume both companies are keeping their own £2.50 return fare?
Repainting is another matter presumbly.
Incidently, it looks like NX have 'inherited' those early Sunday morning journeys from Diamond, which makes sense with them being run from the nearest depot on route, rather than a depot miles away, but I'm surprised they haven't been partly incorparated into those early Sunday X51 journeys.
Will there be any buses from Moor St up to Bath Row from the 29th august? I currently get off the X51 and jump on one of the X2×× buses cant remember which
Quote from: Bob on August 17, 2021, 10:30:32 PM
Will there be any buses from Moor St up to Bath Row from the 29th august? I currently get off the X51 and jump on one of the X2×× buses cant remember which
Yes. X21/X22 will still run, both take the same route City Centre to University via Bath Row.
(X20 will no longer run)
Quote from: mesub on August 17, 2021, 09:49:28 PM
Looking at the new services:
20 to be operated by YW
46 to be operated by AG
The 48 seems to be serving Weoley Castle and then Northfield.
The only issue I find with the X21 extension (heading outbound) is that, due to the way stops are placed in Bartley Green, there's a large stop distance between the Jiggins Lane stop and the Carmel Grove one, so the Adams Hill/Romsley Road Junction isn't being served.
That being said though, there's only a few stops left anyway and there are plenty of other routes you could use to get to Field Lane (or just walk it!).
These new routes seem to avoid the city centre, so no clean air zone. I wonder what vehicles will be allocated?
Knowing AG and routes that dont go to birmingham ( Double decker routes ), its likely they will just allocate the routes with gemini and ALX400.
With the new timetable does the 51S service change to the 51 when it gets to City Centre? Timetable says morning journey withdrawn.
Variation appeared for 51S on the DVSA site today.
Reason I was wondering is its not marked on the timetable that it changes onto 51, but if it didn't then surely it would be incorporated into the normal service timetables from Edgbaston Park Road into town/not numbered 51.
Would have thought 11S would be brought back under the 11A timetable as well (as 11A to Perry Barr), as it clearly then operates 15:54 11A Ward End to Perry Barr.
94 seems to be very highly platinum based buses over the last few weeks with the withdrawal of parts of the Sutton routes and the X20 could we see 94/95 be platinum operated??
Quote from: Jack D on August 20, 2021, 07:36:01 AM
94 seems to be very highly platinum based buses over the last few weeks with the withdrawal of parts of the Sutton routes and the X20 could we see 94/95 be platinum operated??
I don't think there's anywhere near enough 'spare' platinums to be used on a combined 4 minute frequency over both routes. And where do all the red ones go?
Quote from: Gareth on August 20, 2021, 09:18:41 AM
I don't think there's anywhere near enough 'spare' platinums to be used on a combined 4 minute frequency over both routes. And where do all the red ones go?
Plenty spare during school holidays with reduced running times which is why yyou see them now, but as gareth says different in two weeks time
Quote from: Pete175 on August 06, 2021, 01:38:32 PM
I heard 12/A & 13/A are to be solely operated by PE with the 12/A mirroring 13/A up Portland Road & City Road, not sure about frequencies
Do PE have enough buses to run all four routes? I can see an abundance of B7RLE flooding the routes
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 20, 2021, 03:03:19 PM
Do PE have enough buses to run all four routes?
No I have messed up and left them short >:(
Quote from: Tony on August 20, 2021, 03:47:47 PM
No I have messed up and left them short >:(
There goes that pension then
@Tony
Quote from: Tony on August 20, 2021, 09:49:19 AM
Plenty spare during school holidays with reduced running times which is why yyou see them now, but as gareth says different in two weeks time
Ahhhh, so that's why there hasn't been any enviros (or the odd trident) on the 23/4.
Quote from: Steveminor on August 20, 2021, 06:17:17 PM
There goes that pension then @Tony
Finding drivers tends to be more of a challenge than finding buses these days....
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 20, 2021, 03:03:19 PM
Do PE have enough buses to run all four routes? I can see an abundance of B7RLE flooding the routes
I think Tony knows what he's doing, plus don't forget the 7 is going to Wolverhampton.
Quote from: Westy on August 17, 2021, 10:20:15 PM
As I've said before, Diamond will have the most work with the debranding, certainly with the 31 / 32, as they'll have to remove reference to the 32 for starters as well as the 'every 3 mins' frequency.
All Nx will have to do is change the frequency.
I assume both companies are keeping their own £2.50 return fare?
Repainting is another matter presumbly.
Incidently, it looks like NX have 'inherited' those early Sunday morning journeys from Diamond, which makes sense with them being run from the nearest depot on route, rather than a depot miles away, but I'm surprised they haven't been partly incorparated into those early Sunday X51 journeys.
I suspect Diamond will repaint the buses in fleet livery. NX won't need to bother as the TfWM livery was almost identical to the NX livery.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on August 20, 2021, 10:10:46 PM
I suspect Diamond will repaint the buses in fleet livery. NX won't need to bother as the TfWM livery was almost identical to the NX livery.
I suppose the NX WM Bus liveried vehicles might get a repaint eventually.
I was talking about the branding.
Quote from: BN on August 20, 2021, 09:51:42 PM
I think Tony knows what he's doing, plus don't forget the 7 is going to Wolverhampton.
sorry if I have missed a reply, but what will the 7 interwork with now its going to Wolverhampton?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on August 20, 2021, 10:55:19 PM
sorry if I have missed a reply, but what will the 7 interwork with now its going to Wolverhampton?
I believe its the 27 or 82 as they both terminate at Dudley.
The 81 looks self contained
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on August 20, 2021, 10:55:19 PM
sorry if I have missed a reply, but what will the 7 interwork with now its going to Wolverhampton?
Interwork with the 82
Quote from: Westy on August 20, 2021, 10:50:42 PM
I suppose the NX WM Bus liveried vehicles might get a repaint eventually.
I was talking about the branding.
The branding will be removed, at least for the Diamond ones. 32307's got removed on Thursday, after it came back from repaint. I believe the route branding and 'West Midlands Bus' logos will be removed from the ones that won't be done in time, and they'll be kept away from the former partnership routes to avoid any confusion for passengers.
Speaking of branding removal, they haven't got long to remove the branding from 6880-89.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 21, 2021, 10:18:44 AM
Speaking of branding removal, they haven't got long to remove the branding from 6880-89.
Or at least remove reference to the X20 on the branding.
If the branding is modified or they are rebranded they might actually gain the internal platinum branding as well?
The Sutton branding will presumably have to have reference to Minworth removed as well.
Isn't there a few branded vehicles that will need updating?
The 529's have been 'Every 7 mins' for the last few years,
Now, it's going down to every 10 mins or less!
(And internal branding needs looking at as well, A few references to now withdrawn /renumbered routes!)
Quote from: Westy on August 21, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
Isn't there a few branded vehicles that will need updating?
The 529's have been 'Every 7 mins' for the last few years,
Now, it's going down to every 10 mins or less!
(And internal branding needs looking at as well, A few references to now withdrawn /renumbered routes!)
The branding doesn't need changing, If you look at the new 529 timetable on Traveline you will see that it mainly runs every 8 minutes but in peaks does occasionally run ever 7 minutes.
Quote from: Tony on August 20, 2021, 03:47:47 PM
No I have messed up and left them short >:(
Hilarious Tone. I obviously meant that literally ::)
Quote from: BN on August 20, 2021, 09:51:42 PM
I think Tony knows what he's doing, plus don't forget the 7 is going to Wolverhampton.
Don't remember saying he didn't ???
My point was PE only have 24 non-platinum double deckers that have to spread over the 6, 12/12A, 13/13A, 126
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 21, 2021, 02:42:28 PM
My point was PE only have 25 non-platinum double deckers that have to spread over the 6, 12/12A, 13/13A, 126
Pensnett has single deckers that frequently appear on the 12/A and 13/13A so they could be allocated single deckers
Quote from: BNH2004 on August 21, 2021, 03:20:10 PM
Pensnett has single deckers that frequently appear on the 12/A and 13/13A so they could be allocated single deckers
Does WB gain anything? Or is there a PVR decrease there?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 21, 2021, 12:07:56 PM
The branding doesn't need changing, If you look at the new 529 timetable on Traveline you will see that it mainly runs every 8 minutes but in peaks does occasionally run ever 7 minutes.
So why does the NX version of the timetable say 10 minutes or less then?
Because when I was at school 8 mins was less the 10 minutes
Is the 45/47 extension to the retirement village an additional edit, didn't notice that last week?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 22, 2021, 07:49:54 PM
Is the 45/47 extension to the retirement village an additional edit, didn't notice that last week?
It is but its not much of an extension though is it. 1 bus stop.
It just means last stop is the other side of the island.
Quote from: 2206 on August 22, 2021, 07:51:34 PM
It is but its not much of an extension though is it. 1 bus stop.
It just means last stop is the other side of the island.
I worked that out, thanks
School bus 703 New Invention- St Thomas Moor School will be operated by WB. They have operated it in the past.
AM 788 Walsall- Barr Beacon School operated by WB
AM 881 x 2 Buses Milton Street brr Beacon operated by WB.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 22, 2021, 07:49:54 PM
Is the 45/47 extension to the retirement village an additional edit, didn't notice that last week?
I think so and it also removes issues caused by using the bus stop on the bridge which is a little narrow (and short) to be a layover point.
Staying in the Longbridge area, the 27 will be replicating the days of the old 44 on its way towards Cofton Hackett and the 45 is taking a more direct route onto Groveley Lane. The original maps on Traveline didn't show this.
Quote from: PB2938 on August 22, 2021, 08:57:38 PM
School bus 703 New Invention- St Thomas Moor School will be operated by WB. They have operated it in the past.
ISTR back in the days when I used to get a lift from home to our Great Bridge depot approx 2011/2012, I used to see a President up in Green Lane by Beechdale parked up fairly regulary.
This was at the time when Walsall didn't have any Presidents themselves.
I could be totally wrong(Think it was discussed at the time!), but didn't said vehicle go onto WB 74's after that?
Quote from: Westy on August 22, 2021, 10:40:09 PM
ISTR back in the days when I used to get a lift from home to our Great Bridge depot approx 2011/2012, I used to see a President up in Green Lane by Beechdale parked up fairly regulary.
This was at the time when Walsall didn't have any Presidents themselves.
I could be totally wrong(Think it was discussed at the time!), but didn't said vehicle go onto WB 74's after that?
I think it went onto 75 after the school was always an awful Green b7 alx400
Just noticed on the WN 16 that the wombourne shorts on a Sunday and all week evening Penn shorts are withdrawn.
I do wonder how long until the 15 going through himley gets cut down to hourly with the other 2 bypassing Himley
Quote from: BK63 YWP on August 23, 2021, 09:08:45 PM
Just noticed on the WN 16 that the wombourne shorts on a Sunday and all week evening Penn shorts are withdrawn.
I do wonder how long until the 15 going through himley gets cut down to hourly with the other 2 bypassing Himley
I wouldn't be surprised if the 15 got rerouted via the Himley bypass for all journeys
Quote from: BNH2004 on August 21, 2021, 03:20:10 PM
Pensnett has single deckers that frequently appear on the 12/A and 13/13A so they could be allocated single deckers
Didn't the 12 originally get deckers to compensate for a drop in frequency of single deckers on the 120? (or am I imagining the 120 used to be every 10 mins City - Oldbury?)
Quote from: Kevin on August 24, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
Didn't the 12 originally get deckers to compensate for a drop in frequency of single deckers on the 120? (or am I imagining the 120 used to be every 10 mins City - Oldbury?)
When the 12 & 12A were introduced, both routes maintained the every 10 minute frequency from City to Oldbury, but yeah, you're right, both routes did get deckers, alongside singles.
It wasn't until summer in 2019 that the 12 & 12A were reduced to every 30 minutes each, when the 13B was withdrawn but the allocation hasn't changed
I'm wondering what the actual reason is for the 12/A to use city road instead of continuing down sandon road, isn't the service just going to be even more delayed, a bit annoying as I use those routes
Quote from: Trident4590 on August 24, 2021, 11:36:28 PM
I'm wondering what the actual reason is for the 12/A to use city road instead of continuing down sandon road, isn't the service just going to be even more delayed, a bit annoying as I use those routes
To alleviate the overcrowding on the 13/A along the City Road/Portland Road
Quote from: Trident4590 on August 24, 2021, 11:36:28 PM
I'm wondering what the actual reason is for the 12/A to use city road instead of continuing down sandon road, isn't the service just going to be even more delayed, a bit annoying as I use those routes
To be honest, using the signalled junction off the Hagley Road to Portland Road probably better than waiting for a break in traffic to get to Sandon Road. Realistically it isn't going to inconvenience many people, only one bus stop now won't get served on Sandon Road and that's right by the City Road junction
Temporary bus stops flags have been tied to lampposts on heathland avenue and brownfield road for the 96.
Quote from: Jack D on August 25, 2021, 12:02:57 PM
Temporary bus stops flags have been tied to lampposts on heathland avenue and brownfield road for the 96.
I hope they stick some more out as well. My brother pointed out to me that now the 96 is going around Lanchester Way it doesn't actually serve Green Lane shops, so they may want to plonk a stop a bit further down (the original bus stop layout on there was from when the 99/993/994 briefly used to come up Auckland Drive and turn right onto there, so the shops were served that way).
Also on the new roads being served in Kingstanding.
Some of the new timetables have been printed and put on the bus stops (or at least on Bristol Road South for the 20).
Notices now starting to appear on buses.
Saw one on 6768 this morning.
(Last time I was on 6768, it broke down outside Walsall Bus Station, due to lack of power!)
Are services 12/12A/13/13A going to be entirely operated by PN from 29th August? Or will WB still operate them too? I've never been able to work out how these are operated (Always feels very random) apart from the 6 weeks holidays.
Also I've not read anything about an extension of the 7 to Wolverhampton, so why will they be operating it? Is it interworking with another WN service? Seems a lot of dead mileage from Park Lane...
Quote from: Bus_user_jay on August 26, 2021, 10:50:31 PM
Are services 12/12A/13/13A going to be entirely operated by PN from 29th August? Or will WB still operate them too? I've never been able to work out how these are operated (Always feels very random) apart from the 6 weeks holidays.
Also I've not read anything about an extension of the 7 to Wolverhampton, so why will they be operating it? Is it interworking with another WN service? Seems a lot of dead mileage from Park Lane...
WN82 is the interworking service
Quote from: Bus_user_jay on August 26, 2021, 10:50:31 PM
Are services 12/12A/13/13A going to be entirely operated by PN from 29th August? Or will WB still operate them too? I've never been able to work out how these are operated (Always feels very random) apart from the 6 weeks holidays.
Also I've not read anything about an extension of the 7 to Wolverhampton, so why will they be operating it? Is it interworking with another WN service? Seems a lot of dead mileage from Park Lane...
12/13 run by pn from Sunday
7 will interwork changing service up Dudley 82 I think
Has anyone seen any flag changes??
Quote from: Jack D on August 28, 2021, 02:45:02 PM
Has anyone seen any flag changes??
Can't remember now, I think I saw one or two.
They definitely have started updating destination displays though. 6889 had X21 to Woodcock Hill as a part route.
I havent seen any flag changes for the 41, 4A or 36 yet.
Foremans rd has been closed all week which may have delayed the flag alterations for the 36 & 41
No 95 or 96 changes to flags
Still No Changes i wonder if the flag changes may occur midnight?
Quote from: bbs on August 28, 2021, 09:40:06 PM
Still No Changes i wonder if the flag changes may occur midnight?
Someone has to come out and change them, so no they won't.
They might be changed Tuesday onwards as Monday is bank holiday.
Quote from: bbs on August 28, 2021, 09:40:06 PM
Still No Changes i wonder if the flag changes may occur midnight?
Magically on the stroke of midnight?
A man with a van has to go around changing them, it's unlikely to be done at night
Looks like the 81 and 7 interwork on a Sunday, also on bus times there is currently an 81 in Lye
Looks like the 55 is still operating today!
Quote from: Gareth on August 29, 2021, 11:51:00 AM
Looks like the 55 is still operating today!
I saw that in shard end this morning.
Surprised no one has been moaning that there's now two number 9 bus routes serving Wolverhampton...
It's almost like passengers can cope with such a concept
Quote from: Gareth on August 29, 2021, 11:51:00 AM
Looks like the 55 is still operating today!
X70 too
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 29, 2021, 02:07:25 PM
A breakdown in processes somewhere then?
Bit of a sloppy day all round. For example a number 7 branded bus operating a route that doesn't officially exist anymore. Although timetables and flags suggest otherwise, but the electronic bus stop displays have been updated. And a mixture of X13/X70 operating together.
It's just incredibly sloppy. I don't expect bus stop flags and timetables to be changed overnight (although at one time they were done a week or so in advance) but you'd expect buses to be showing the correct route numbers.
Well at least the 56 didn't operate today lol
Quote from: Gareth on August 29, 2021, 05:40:53 PM
Bit of a sloppy day all round. For example a number 7 branded bus operating a route that doesn't officially exist anymore. Although timetables and flags suggest otherwise, but the electronic bus stop displays have been updated. And a mixture of X13/X70 operating together.
It's just incredibly sloppy. I don't expect bus stop flags and timetables to be changed overnight (although at one time they were done a week or so in advance) but you'd expect buses to be showing the correct route numbers.
Did someone physically see the X70/55 being driven around, or was it reliant on bustimes?
I've seen the 96 go around Lanchester Way, so there is that!
Quote from: ellspurs on August 29, 2021, 05:53:03 PM
Did someone physically see the X70/55 being driven around, or was it reliant on bustimes?
I've seen the 96 go around Lanchester Way, so there is that!
seen two 7 branded busses on the 95 showing 55 asked driver why 95 wasn't displayed he said the blinds haven't been updated yet so presuming same for the X13 so reason why it's showing X70 and all X13 tracking as X70 apart from one which is just leaving chelemsly wood now tracking as a X13 but all the 95 are tracking as 95 was wondering if 6881-6889 have been debranded yet or not
Quote from: ellspurs on August 29, 2021, 05:53:03 PM
Did someone physically see the X70/55 being driven around, or was it reliant on bustimes?
I've seen the 96 go around Lanchester Way, so there is that!
Yes it was me who physically saw all these. I don't arm chair bus spot. I have never even used bustimes.
Quote from: SK68MEV on August 29, 2021, 06:05:16 PMwas wondering if 6881-6889 have been debranded yet or not
6880 also. They weren't yesterday, so doubt it.
I also saw the 55 live in shard end this morning away from the keyboard.
Have seen a 46 and alot of 4A's to solihull but no sign of a 41. The Bus stops ae showing 1A on the live arrival board. Theres no 41 today as its sunday
Quote from: Gareth on August 29, 2021, 06:49:54 PM
Yes it was me who physically saw all these. I don't arm chair bus spot. I have never even used bustimes.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 29, 2021, 07:25:47 PM
I also saw the 55 live in shard end this morning away from the keyboard.
Thought that'd be the case. Possibly too much reprogramming to be done overnight.
I walked around Auckland Drive/Windward Way this evening. On Auckland Drive there were notices on each of the 96 serving bus stops explaining about the route changes, and where applicable where the nearest stop was. The live arrival signs in the stops had been updated, but a lot of the ones on Auckland Drive are malfunctioning so aren't displaying all the information correctly.
Could be fun on Tuesday if Perry Barr haven't altered their blinds by then as we may see BC showing 55 & PB showing 95 or could be vice versa
Quote from: Steveminor on August 29, 2021, 09:02:02 PM
Could be fun on Tuesday if Perry Barr haven't altered their blinds by then as we may see BC showing 55 & PB showing 95 or could be vice versa
Will PB be running weekday 95's?
Until now they only ran Sundays (& bank holidays, etc) on the 95 (55).
From Tuseday both BC and PB will be be running both 94/95 all day 7 days a week.
Bus times new changes have been applied ( At least for the 41 )
Quote from: bbs on August 29, 2021, 10:31:46 PM
Bus times new changes have been applied ( At least for the 41 )
All services are now updated on BusTimes.
Quote from: cris 99 on August 29, 2021, 10:05:06 PM
From Tuseday both BC and PB will be be running both 94/95 all day 7 days a week.
Interesting wonder what the saving is to nxwm?
55 is still running today.
Quote from: Gareth on August 30, 2021, 04:51:14 PM
55 is still running today.
Yeah, I followed one through Kingshurst earlier.
Quote from: ellspurs on August 30, 2021, 04:57:42 PM
Yeah, I followed one through Kingshurst earlier.
First day things going wrong, but still a bit poor show really.
Hopefully, things have gone a bit more smoothly at Walsall, as there wasn't much to change on their displays.
Adding '8 Lichfield via Pelsall & Brownhills', '9 Wolverhampton via Bloxwich' or similar & removing '10a Lichfield'!
(I do realise there's probably some other minor alterations, but those were the main ones ISTR!)
Quote from: Westy on August 30, 2021, 06:14:42 PM
Hopefully, things have gone a bit more smoothly at Walsall, as there wasn't much to change on their displays.
Adding '8 Lichfield via Pelsall & Brownhills', '9 Wolverhampton via Bloxwich' or similar & removing '10a Lichfield'!
(I do realise there's probably some other minor alterations, but those were the main ones ISTR!)
It doesn't make any difference how many changes there are to make, as long as there's one somebody still has to physically plug either a big box, or on the newer destinations a USB stick into every bus in the garage, and when garages have up to 200 buses that is a massive task
Quote from: Tony on August 30, 2021, 07:29:28 PM
It doesn't make any difference how many changes there are to make, as long as there's one somebody still has to physically plug either a big box, or on the newer destinations a USB stick into every bus in the garage, and when garages have up to 200 buses that is a massive task
A big box? Do NX not use Keylos for the older ones?
Quote from: DJ on August 30, 2021, 11:26:47 PM
A big box? Do NX not use Keylos for the older ones?
Got both
Still quite a few 55s knocking around THREE days into the changes the T.C would find that unacceptable
Just put 'Service Extra' as BCT used to do when a bus couldn't show the right destination!
Quote from: Steveminor on August 31, 2021, 09:09:39 AM
Still quite a few 55s knocking around THREE days into the changes the T.C would find that unacceptable
These new route numbers were registered weeks ago, there is no excuse for this at all.
Quote from: Steveminor on August 31, 2021, 09:09:39 AM
Still quite a few 55s knocking around THREE days into the changes the T.C would find that unacceptable
It's almost Tesco on promotion change over day, not changing pricing as didn't have the resources to changes 10k price changes. This must be some sort of exceptional service or someone needs a dressing down. Hope the drivers aren't getting to much grief.
Quote from: Steveminor on August 31, 2021, 09:09:39 AM
Still quite a few 55s knocking around THREE days into the changes the T.C would find that unacceptable
X21 isn't much better. I saw 4 of them going the other way this morning and three of them still said Woodcock Hill.
There's been some confusion in the Bartley Green groups as to where it stops on Adam's Hill too.
41 In service but I'm pretty sure the 41 can have double deckers since the 36 had them. And if formans Road is closed, 36 still was double decker when it took redding lane then shaftmoor lane.
Quote from: Stevo on August 31, 2021, 09:39:52 AM
Just put 'Service Extra' as BCT used to do when a bus couldn't show the right destination!
Why? Displaying "serivce extra" instead of "55" would be even worse surely. Then you wouldn't know if its a X12, 14, 94, 95 or what route its on. (At least 55 and 95 are the same route.)
When 4797 was on the X21 some time ago now, it caused a lot of confusion with its blank destination display.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 31, 2021, 09:58:14 AM
These new route numbers were registered weeks ago, there is no excuse for this at all.
Couldn't agree more. Sloppy, embaressing and confusing.
Couldn't put service extra up anyway as that would need to be programmed into the blinds
Quote from: bbs on August 31, 2021, 11:03:45 AM
41 In service but I'm pretty sure the 41 can have double deckers since the 36 had them. And if formans Road is closed, 36 still was double decker when it took redding lane then shaftmoor lane.
No thank you, we need to keep double deckers for routes that really need them
Quote from: bbs on August 31, 2021, 11:03:45 AM
41 In service but I'm pretty sure the 41 can have double deckers since the 36 had them. And if formans Road is closed, 36 still was double decker when it took redding lane then shaftmoor lane.
Deckers can go on 41.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 31, 2021, 01:30:07 PM
No thank you, we need to keep double deckers for routes that really need them
Problem is the CAZ. Volvos are limited as to what services they can run on
Quote from: Pat on August 31, 2021, 04:13:32 PM
Deckers can go on 41.
Problem is the CAZ. Volvos are limited as to what services they can run on
Deckers can also go on 46
Quote from: bbs on August 31, 2021, 04:42:08 PM
Deckers can also go on 46
Yes, because they interwork
Quote from: 2206 on August 31, 2021, 11:15:03 AM
Why? Displaying "serivce extra" instead of "55" would be even worse surely. Then you wouldn't know if its a X12, 14, 94, 95 or what route its on. (At least 55 and 95 are the same route.)
When 4797 was on the X21 some time ago now, it caused a lot of confusion with its blank destination display.
Tongue in cheek reference to the BCT and early WMPTE days when buses had roller blinds. Buses on loan to other garages or recent transfers would display the correct service number but if they didn't have the correct destination on the blind, it would typically be set to the fairly unhelpful "SERVICE EXTRA" which was on all Birmingham garage blinds (can't speak for Black Country or Coventry).
You'd probably need to be in your fifties or older to remember it.
For some reason a temporary stop has been put on a tree at the bottom of Woodcock Lane adjacent to the inbound one on the other side. No mention of another stop on Woodcock Lane for the X21 on the website though, not sure what the point of this temporary stop is.
I did note a solitary 95 working this afternoon. Just to confuse things further. Now we have two different route numbers running the same route.
I'm as pro NXWM as they come, but this is extremely poor show.
Quote from: Gareth on August 31, 2021, 06:18:51 PM
I did note a solitary 95 working this afternoon. Just to confuse things further. Now we have two different route numbers running the same route.
I'm as pro NXWM as they come, but this is extremely poor show.
it's more of the PB buses showing 55 and the bc enviros showing 95 very confusing for passengers
Quote from: Mike K on August 31, 2021, 05:26:02 PM
Tongue in cheek reference to the BCT and early WMPTE days when buses had roller blinds. Buses on loan to other garages or recent transfers would display the correct service number but if they didn't have the correct destination on the blind, it would typically be set to the fairly unhelpful "SERVICE EXTRA" which was on all Birmingham garage blinds (can't speak for Black Country or Coventry).
You'd probably need to be in your fifties or older to remember it.
From what I remember, Walsall displayed blanks.
Once, back in school days, when the 301 ruled supreme between Walsall & Hednesford, I saw a loan Metrobus, managing to display Walsall only, so presumably turning to blank for the return journey.
Taking a guess, the loan was from either Wolves, West Bromwich or Perry Barr, as they had Walsall routes/duties at the time!
Quote from: SK68MEV on August 31, 2021, 06:27:03 PM
it's more of the PB buses showing 55 and the bc enviros showing 95 very confusing for passengers
I'm surprised they haven't just applied stickers temporarily to the offending buses. You have to ask why on earth it's been renumbered in the first place of the route hasn't changed!!!
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 31, 2021, 11:00:52 AM
There's been some confusion in the Bartley Green groups as to where it stops on Adam's Hill too.
I'm running a survey on my WMBU website regarding awareness of and issues with these latest changes.
A common complaint I'm seeing is that because the bus stops in Bartley Green haven't had flags updated, no-one knows where to catch the bus from!
That in my opinion is a major failing on the part of TfWM, as usually they manage to get most stops updated well in advance of any forthcoming changes.
Regarding wrong route numbers/destinations, as well as buses still showing 55 or X70 as already mentioned here, I note in Tony's latest photos from 29th August two examples of incorrect destinations (unless the photos weren't actually taken on the 29th in which case I gracefully withdraw!), namely a 2 to Maypole, and a 27 to Longbridge Station.
This is in my opinion a failing on the part of the bus operator, as again they usually manage to run round all the buses with a USB stick to update the displays in advance of such changes. And likewise, drivers should be properly briefed as to what displays need to be selected.
Quote from: don on August 31, 2021, 06:35:51 PM
You have to ask why on earth it's been renumbered in the first place of the route hasn't changed!!!
It means 94/95 run to Ward End and X12/X13 to Bromford/Castle Bromwich. Like the Stratford Rd/Hagley Rd renumbering. Which makes sense, but the buses and flags should be changed accordingly.
DTS need to correct their destinations as well, their blue dart said"Dudely Road" on it today.
Quote from: SK68MEV on August 31, 2021, 06:27:03 PM
it's more of the PB buses showing 55 and the bc enviros showing 95 very confusing for passengers
I saw a Gemini, PB Platinum, BC red and white E400 and Trident earlier. All displaying 55 still.
Also the Gemini work all 3 double deck routes at the Fox & Goose now 11, 94, 95. Only the 28 they don't see.
Quote from: Stu on August 31, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
This is in my opinion a failing on the part of the bus operator, as again they usually manage to run round all the buses with a USB stick to update the displays in advance of such changes. And likewise, drivers should be properly briefed as to what displays need to be selected.
Regarding the 2, I saw a Scania displaying 'Warstock via Stoney Lane' a few weeks ago.
Quote from: Pat on August 31, 2021, 06:58:04 PM
Regarding the 2, I saw a Scania displaying 'Warstock via Stoney Lane' a few weeks ago.
The 2 has always run to Warstock only in the late evenings, so that destination is already programmed. On Sundays now (from 29th Aug), all daytime journeys terminate at Warstock, no longer running through to Maypole.
They should issue some sort of explanation apology to customers I think, admit their errors and promise resolution etc
Quote from: Stu on August 31, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
I'm running a survey on my WMBU website regarding awareness of and issues with these latest changes.
A common complaint I'm seeing is that because the bus stops in Bartley Green haven't had flags updated, no-one knows where to catch the bus from!
That in my opinion is a major failing on the part of TfWM, as usually they manage to get most stops updated well in advance of any forthcoming changes.
Regarding wrong route numbers/destinations, as well as buses still showing 55 or X70 as already mentioned here, I note in Tony's latest photos from 29th August two examples of incorrect destinations (unless the photos weren't actually taken on the 29th in which case I gracefully withdraw!), namely a 2 to Maypole, and a 27 to Longbridge Station.
This is in my opinion a failing on the part of the bus operator, as again they usually manage to run round all the buses with a USB stick to update the displays in advance of such changes. And likewise, drivers should be properly briefed as to what displays need to be selected.
The photos were taken on Sat 28, last day of old timetable
Quote from: Tony on August 31, 2021, 07:54:22 PM
The photos were taken on Sat 28, last day of old timetable
Thanks for the clarification, I'm happy to stand corrected!
Quote from: Pat on August 31, 2021, 05:04:24 PM
Yes, because they interwork
but why is mmc the allocations for 46/41?
Quote from: bbs on August 31, 2021, 08:23:13 PM
but why is mmc the allocations for 46/41?
Because those routes don't need double decks?
How do you know what the allocation is anyway?
Programing blinds takes about 1 minute & can easily be done while the bus is being fuelled or de vaulted by a shunter or other ancillary engineer. There simply is no excuse fir the wrong destinations on this scale. A lot of critism has to be laid at them as well timetables not changed flags not changed. We're in a poor place industry wise in getting passengers back onto bus & having faith in public transport again. This shoddy show is not going to help that cause at all.
Quote from: Steveminor on August 31, 2021, 08:40:37 PM
There simply is no excuse fir the wrong destinations on this scale. A lot of critism has to be laid at them as well timetables not changed flags not changed. We're in a poor place industry wise in getting passengers back onto bus & having faith in public transport again. This shoddy show is not going to help that cause at all.
Wrong destinations on buses is down to the operator. Bus stop flags/timetables not being updated is down to TfWM.
Criticism has to be fairly dished out. Have your bus stop flags that you serve been updated?
Nope
Quote from: Steveminor on August 31, 2021, 08:40:37 PM
Programing blinds takes about 1 minute & can easily be done while the bus is being fuelled or de vaulted by a shunter or other ancillary engineer. There simply is no excuse fir the wrong destinations on this scale. A lot of critism has to be laid at them as well timetables not changed flags not changed. We're in a poor place industry wise in getting passengers back onto bus & having faith in public transport again. This shoddy show is not going to help that cause at all.
Yes this isn't ideal for passengers but it's a few days, people will cope. And let's not forget that no company is perfect. I'd hardly think passengers benefitted when Claribels cut the 55 route or had a non sensical 94 timetable. I don't think your company had passengers best interests at heart then. Also, didn't your company run buses in dealer white for a few weeks with no company name on so passengers had no clue who they were dealing with. See no one is perfect, and a bit of understanding wouldn't go amiss.
If this is still the case in a weeks time you have a point but a few days is not the end of the world.
Withdrawing a loss making service that is adequately covered by another operator has not left passengers confused about timing of buses or left anyone not knowing what was happening & was communicated through on bus notices a month in advance.
Likewise buses with no branding (because the plan with tfwm was to increase contract to euro 6 with an uplift in tender costs which never materialised) but buses were blinded up & at stop timet& bus stop plates were there so that passengers knew which number bus & at what time.
We now have a situation where people some of whom have not even been out of their homes for months are getting to bus stops with incorrect timetables incorrect route numbers & then to top it off buses from the same company are running the same route with two different route numbers or showing the incorrect destinations.
So no I really don't think you can compare the 2 can you.
It is also a traffic commissioner requirement that buses should show the correct route number & destination. Would he accept the excuse "we got too many buses to do".
Quote from: j789 on August 31, 2021, 09:26:03 PM
Yes this isn't ideal for passengers but it's a few days, people will cope. And let's not forget that no company is perfect. I'd hardly think passengers benefitted when Claribels cut the 55 route or had a non sensical 94 timetable. I don't think your company had passengers best interests at heart then. Also, didn't your company run buses in dealer white for a few weeks with no company name on so passengers had no clue who they were dealing with. See no one is perfect, and a bit of understanding wouldn't go amiss.
If this is still the case in a weeks time you have a point but a few days is not the end of the world.
What a complete load of drivel...
Has anyone noted slightly incorrect timetable information, where the destinations haven't been updated?
For example Walsall 8 & 9 are still showing their old terminal points of Brownhills & Bloxwich respectively, rather than Lichfield & Wolverhampton!
The actual timetables are correct though!
(Only noticed because I had to sort out a copy for my sister, despite printing off a copy of the TfWm version & highlighting the relevant stops for her, but she still found it difficult to read! (Rolls eyes!))
Quote from: metrocity on August 31, 2021, 09:45:32 PM
What a complete load of drivel...
Excuse me! Do you work in the industry for a large company? Have you any idea the sort of technical or logistical issues can that pop up without any warning throwing plans into disarray. I do because I've been there plenty of times where things haven't gone to plan. It's fortunate most people understand this reality even though it is clear one or two on here have no clue about what they are talking about.
Passengers (on the whole!) aren't stupid, if they see a bus running on a route with a number not seen before most would hail it down and ask the driver. They can cope with this because they have brain cells. In the same way, professional drivers will make sure that they take extra care if they know of an issue with service changes or incorrect numbers - they are trained to perform their duties to a high standard. You always get the odd one who doesn't but I guarantee most of those drivers on the 55/95 etc would have made sure they took extra notice of any passengers who may have been confused and helped them out. That is called GOOD customer service.
As usual bus spotters showing absolutely no understanding of the realities of large scale operational management!
Quote from: Stu on August 31, 2021, 08:27:33 PM
Because those routes don't need double decks?
How do you know what the allocation is anyway?
I've heard a rumour on insta that 41 will be e200mmc allocated
Quote from: bbs on August 31, 2021, 11:28:09 PM
I've heard a rumour on insta that 41 will be e200mmc allocated
I wouldn't buy into the rubbish posted on Instagram, and what has been operating the 41 lately...
Quote from: j789 on August 31, 2021, 10:32:12 PM
As usual bus spotters showing absolutely no understanding of the realities of large scale operational management!
How do you know some people who make comments are not from the industry or even management of operators.
The point still stands the traffic commissioner would take a poor view of an operator running with incorrect service numbers & or destinations & would not accept "we got too many buses" or "something else came up". If you got too many buses to manage then its simple don't run as many buses & well there's no answer to something more important than basic operations. Remember some passengers haven't been out for months we need to win them back & we need to attract people out of cars. That isn't going to happen if people do not have basic information as to where the bus is going or what the route number is. Would even be better if every bus on the route was displaying the wrong number but this is just a pick & mix & we ain't running woolworths
Quote from: bbs on August 31, 2021, 11:28:09 PM
I've heard a rumour on insta that 41 will be e200mmc allocated
Rumours are not facts. However there are currently 6 buses out on the 41 / 46 which are all E200s, so it would appear this is correct.
Quote from: Stu on September 01, 2021, 07:23:08 AM
Rumours are not facts. However there are currently 6 buses out on the 41 / 46 which are all E200s, so it would appear this is correct.
Perception is reality.......Tony Blair
Quote from: Stu on September 01, 2021, 07:23:08 AM
Rumours are not facts. However there are currently 6 buses out on the 41 / 46 which are all E200s, so it would appear this is correct.
4529 on the 41 now
Today 41/46 are fully double decker now.
Overheard a conversation today between an elderly couple in Wednesfield about the new 9 service replacing the section of the old WN60 route.....
Old man: "Thay've chayinged the buzzes agen, ay thay luv?!"
Old woman: "Arr, thay cor layve anythin alowun cun thay? Yow day av this with the owd Corporation buzzez!"
Old man: "Arr know, burrate least thayve gid us them new single decka buzzez - thaym berra than them old grey dubble deckaz!"
Amazing how passengers perceive 12 year old Scanias are better than the younger Platinums that occasionally strayed onto the route!
Quote from: bbs on September 02, 2021, 10:41:22 AM
Today 41/46 are fully double decker now.
A decker is much easier to make the tight left turn from Woodland Road onto Bunbury Road
Route 8 (Walsall) route change from 5th September.
During Sunday daytime, buses will be reinstated to run past Brownhills to Burntwood and Lichfield.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/service-8-route-change-from-sunday-5th-september-2021?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Orlo
I imagine the loss of a Sunday service in Burntwood hasn't gone down well. Credit for NX for moving swiftly
Passanger levels seem to have gone up a little lately which is good. The 4:40 X21 to "Woodcock Hill" was particularly full throughout, although after it's previous Shenley Fields Drive terminus there was only one passenger remaining. Is it perhaps that people aren't aware of the new route? I'm guessing the stops around Bartley Green haven't been updated yet. Or maybe because it was displaying Woodcock Hill they may have thought it wasn't doing the full route.
It's not like it wasn't asked for by the residents...
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/new-bus-service-connecting-bartley-21420693
Also noticed the X21 and X22 don't appear to be tracking on the app or boards in City Centre anymore. Not to mention they're quoting incorrect times.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 03, 2021, 06:05:16 PM
I'm guessing the stops around Bartley Green haven't been updated yet.
Yup nothing as of today. Interesting also they say on the displays that they terminate in Bartley Green even though they terminate at the same stop as the X22 in Woodgate.
Quote from: bususer28 on September 03, 2021, 06:10:08 PM
Yup nothing as of today. Interesting also they say on the displays that they terminate in Bartley Green even though they terminate at the same stop as the X22 in Woodgate.
Really? I thought it was supposed to terminate where the 18 does?
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 03, 2021, 06:23:39 PM
Really? I thought it was supposed to terminate where the 18 does?
That's what the NX website says - via Adams Hill, Wood Lane and Field Lane to its junction with Romsley Road. Despite it showing Woodgate, the X22 terminus is also in Bartley Green - it's only one stop away from the Romsley Road 18 terminus. The old number 12 route terminated where the X22 does now for donkey's years and showed Bartley Green.
Strange fact, but of the various routes that have terminated at the Field Lane / Wood Lane turning point over the years, the following destinations have been used:
Bartley Green (12, 25)
Woodgate (23, X22)
Kitwell (22)
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 03, 2021, 05:02:00 PM
I imagine the loss of a Sunday service in Burntwood hasn't gone down well. Credit for NX for moving swiftly
What about the X3?
Quote from: Mike K on September 03, 2021, 07:10:18 PM
That's what the NX website says - via Adams Hill, Wood Lane and Field Lane to its junction with Romsley Road. Despite it showing Woodgate, the X22 terminus is also in Bartley Green - it's only one stop away from the Romsley Road 18 terminus. The old number 12 route terminated where the X22 does now for donkey's years and showed Bartley Green.
Strange fact, but of the various routes that have terminated at the Field Lane / Wood Lane turning point over the years, the following destinations have been used:
Bartley Green (12, 25)
Woodgate (23, X22)
Kitwell (22)
Don't forget X64 Woodgate lol.
Quote from: Westy on September 03, 2021, 07:36:28 PM
What about the X3?
I guess the people of Shenstone aren't as bothered. I've never seen anyone waiting at the stops on the A5127. Hill Hook at least has train stations for the Sundays?
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 03, 2021, 05:02:00 PM
I imagine the loss of a Sunday service in Burntwood hasn't gone down well. Credit for NX for moving swiftly
Staffordshire council gave funding for the 8 so quickly reinstated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/lichfieldlive.co.uk/2021/09/03/sunday-bus-service-in-lichfield-and-burntwood-is-reinstated/
Quote from: PB2938 on September 04, 2021, 12:39:44 PM
Stafford hire council gave funding for the 8 so quickly reinstated. As for the X3 most of route covered by rail links and never in the X12 112 has there been a Sunday on this corridor from when I can remember.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/lichfieldlive.co.uk/2021/09/03/sunday-bus-service-in-lichfield-and-burntwood-is-reinstated/
Quote from: ellspurs on September 04, 2021, 12:25:51 PM
I guess the people of Shenstone aren't as bothered. I've never seen anyone waiting at the stops on the A5127. Hill Hook at least has train stations for the Sundays?
They've got a station at Shenstone as well, haven't they?
I don't remember, the couple of times I've been past there, much housing in that bit of the route.
There's a retail or business park I think, of some description.
Does Hill Hook have some sort of Sunday link with Four Oaks Station?
Quote from: Westy on September 04, 2021, 01:49:55 PM
They've got a station at Shenstone as well, haven't they?
I don't remember, the couple of times I've been past there, much housing in that bit of the route.
There's a retail or business park I think, of some description.
Does Hill Hook have some sort of Sunday link with Four Oaks Station?
Yes. Blake Street station.
Quote from: Westy on September 04, 2021, 01:49:55 PM
Does Hill Hook have some sort of Sunday link with Four Oaks Station?
Hill Hook is served by Blake Street station.
Quote from: Westy on September 04, 2021, 01:49:55 PM
They've got a station at Shenstone as well, haven't they?
I don't remember, the couple of times I've been past there, much housing in that bit of the route.
There's a retail or business park I think, of some description.
Does Hill Hook have some sort of Sunday link with Four Oaks Station?
That'd... make a lot more sense regarding Shenstone. I just remember the WM boundary area ending at either Blake Street or Butlers Lane so forget about anything else after it!
It would've been interesting if plans to reinstate the Walsall to Lichfield railway line had come off & whether a Sunday service would've happened there?
Based on the current route, only Burntwood would've been cut off!
4/4A branding changed and now infront of solihull in the branding it displays both 4/4A
finally PB updating destinations seen one gemini displaying 95 today
On the Heathway bus stop flags have been changed as 95 is there but 96 wasn't added to the flag anyone know why as it comes up on network West Midlands app that it stops there
New 41 flags on olton boulevard road only 2 flags changed
It's been a week, yet none of the flags on the City Road/Portland Road, Sandon Road & Hayley Road (before Portland Road) have been changed
Network west midlands do the stops so folks contact them
Quote from: Jack D on September 05, 2021, 07:34:41 PM
On the Heathway bus stop flags have been changed as 95 is there but 96 wasn't added to the flag anyone know why as it comes up on network West Midlands app that it stops there
It stops Heath Way/School Lane, then goes down Brook Meadow Road, Buckland End and Heathland Avenue.
Is it the School Lane one you're referring to?
X21 destination display now saying Woodgate. At least it is on 6884 anyways, just to add to the confusion.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 06, 2021, 05:28:13 PM
X21 destination display now saying Woodgate. At least it is on 6884 anyways, just to add to the confusion.
All roads leads to Woodgate!
Quote from: ellspurs on September 06, 2021, 05:41:11 PM
All roads leads to Woodgate!
One passed me today and said Bartley Green.
Quote from: mesub on September 06, 2021, 07:17:03 PM
One passed me today and said Bartley Green.
It's getting a bit of a farce now. The terminus is definitely in Bartley Green.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 06, 2021, 07:20:09 PM
It's getting a bit of a farce now. The terminus is definitely in Bartley Green.
Can anyone confirm categorically where buses are terminating? Is it the Romsley Road / Field Lane 18 terminus or the Field Lane / Wood Lane X22 terminus?
If both the X21 and X22 are showing Woodgate via University then that could further add to the confusion with the revised route. When the 22 was extended from Kitwell to the 23 terminus at Wood Lane, it deliberately retained its 'Kitwell' destination to differentiate it from the 23.
Quote from: Mike K on September 06, 2021, 07:36:48 PM
If both the X21 and X22 are showing Woodgate via University then that could further add to the confusion with the revised route. When the 22 was extended from Kitwell to the 23 terminus at Wood Lane, it deliberately retained its 'Kitwell' destination to differentiate it from the 23.
The 55/94/95, 45/47, 61/63
all display:
Chelmsley Wood via Ward End
Longbridge via Pershore Road.
Frankley via Bristol Road.
Never any confusion. You look at the display and see what number it says on it.
So not sure how 2 routes displaying Woodgate via University would be any different.
Quote from: 2206 on September 06, 2021, 07:39:59 PM
The 55/94/95, 45/47, 61/63
all display:
Chelmsley Wood via Ward End
Longbridge via Pershore Road.
Frankley via Bristol Road.
Never any confusion. You look at the display and see what number it says on it.
So not sure how 2 routes displaying Woodgate via University is any different.
Yeah thanks for stating the bleeding obvious. Difference here is that the routes terminate at different places according to NXWM.
Quote from: Mike K on September 06, 2021, 07:44:05 PM
Yeah thanks for stating the bleeding obvious. Difference here is that the routes terminate at different places according to NXWM.
Unless Woodgate might be a short working destination possibly, possibly put up by mistake? But its only a short distance between the 2 terminus isn't it.
I saw 2201 in the City Centre displaying 17 Bordesley Green via Hob Moor Road earlier, though obviously thats not the terminus, it also may have been put up by mistake. I wonder where a short working 17 to Bordesley Green would terminate as well, I presume at the 8 route?
Apologies for my flippant reply. Not sure why an X21 has been displaying Woodgate but the points I was trying to get across are that:
1. It terminates at the same place as the 18, which shows a destination of Bartley Green; and
2. These changes, and the different routes that the X21, X22 and 23 each take around the same few roads in Bartley Green are confusing - compounded by late communications and bus stop flags not being updated. If you are used to seeing an X22 to Woodgate, it only adds to that confusion if the X21 starts showing the same. The routes are very different after the QE, they finish at slightly different places and for years buses finishing at Romsley Road have shown Bartley Green on the front. That's all.
Well 6884 was displaying Bartley Green today so God knows what happened yesterday.
It's confusing for sure but don't know how it could be simplified:
My suggestion would be:
23 - Reverts to the old route via Adams Hill and Romsley Road where it would terminate like the old 21 used to.
X21 and X22 - Terminate at the Field Lane terminus in Woodgate both following the existing X22 route in Bartley Green (As the 22 and X64 routes used to follow)
Quote from: sonic84 on September 07, 2021, 06:28:03 PM
It's confusing for sure but don't know how it could be simplified:
My suggestion would be:
23 - Reverts to the old route via Adams Hill and Romsley Road where it would terminate like the old 21 used to.
X21 and X22 - Terminate at the Field Lane terminus in Woodgate both following the existing X22 route in Bartley Green (As the 22 and X64 routes used to follow)
My solution for passengers in the Romsley Road area is to stand in the central reservation opposite the church and then leg it towards the first bus you see with Birmingham on the front.
Quote from: Mike K on September 07, 2021, 07:57:05 PM
My solution for passengers in the Romsley Road area is to stand in the central reservation opposite the church and then leg it towards the first bus you see with Birmingham on the front.
I've witnessed them do this many times!
Quote from: Mike K on September 07, 2021, 07:57:05 PM
My solution for passengers in the Romsley Road area is to stand in the central reservation opposite the church and then leg it towards the first bus you see with Birmingham on the front.
Sounds like a plan 8)
Quote from: sonic84 on September 07, 2021, 06:28:03 PM
It's confusing for sure but don't know how it could be simplified:
My suggestion would be:
23 - Reverts to the old route via Adams Hill and Romsley Road where it would terminate like the old 21 used to.
The 23 used to terminate at the Woodgate (field lane) terminus though. So that wouldn't make sense.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 06, 2021, 05:28:13 PM
X21 destination display now saying Woodgate. At least it is on 6884 anyways, just to add to the confusion.
It's on 6852 as well.
41 is going really great now. People on Olton Boulevard road and spring road now take the 41 which is great to see. I take it everyday too. Nice drivers on there. Good old B7TL's too.
Quote from: mesub on September 08, 2021, 03:29:37 PM
It's on 6852 as well.
So I see. Shambles.
EDIT: 5512 behind it saying Woodcock Hill lol
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 08, 2021, 05:07:33 PM
So I see. Shambles.
EDIT: 5512 behind it saying Woodcock Hill lol
lol
A few months after the 2018 South Birmingham service changes, I remember that there was an X2 platinum that still had the 23's destination as Woodgate
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 08, 2021, 05:07:33 PM
So I see. Shambles.
EDIT: 5512 behind it saying Woodcock Hill lol
wow these changes are nearly a week or 2 old and no flag changes
Quote from: bbs on September 08, 2021, 08:50:46 PM
wow these changes are nearly a week or 2 old and no flag changes
washwood heath road have had flags updated too 95 they were done on park field drive for X13 but the 96 is still on the flags
Quote from: bbs on September 08, 2021, 08:50:46 PM
wow these changes are nearly a week or 2 old and no flag changes
They've changed the flags on Formans Road even though it is still shut.
On the subject of flags, I've noticed some have been changed but the ones that have been changed are quite random, some are changed here or there along the routes.
Notice Walsall's Wmb buses have retained their 31/32 branding but had the frequency changed to 'Every 5 minutes' !
I suppose that suggests the Wmb buses won't be repainted anytime soon.
What about the West Bromwich vehicles?
Quote from: Westy on September 10, 2021, 10:56:16 PM
Notice Walsall's Wmb buses have retained their 31/32 branding but had the frequency changed to 'Every 5 minutes' !
I suppose that suggests the Wmb buses won't be repainted anytime soon.
What about the West Bromwich vehicles?
I believe there are ongoing discussions to try and keep the partnership going as NX drivers at Walsall have been told we are still accepting and selling diamond tickets.
Quote from: 4679 on September 10, 2021, 11:26:59 PM
I believe there are ongoing discussions to try and keep the partnership going as NX drivers at Walsall have been told we are still accepting and selling diamond tickets.
Would I be correct in thinking that the joint tickets & passes situation is the priority to keep, as I can't see Diamond going back to the previous joint timetable?
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 09, 2021, 05:43:25 PM
On the subject of flags, I've noticed some have been changed but the ones that have been changed are quite random, some are changed here or there along the routes.
I noticed some of the flags on Weoley Avenue had been changed others haven't on the same road. On that note the X21 was following an empty Gemini along there, the X21 stopped at all the stops and picked people up, the 48 infront drove past them all, so X21 was clearly more popular along there.
On Woodcock Lane there was a notice on a wall saying "temporary bus stop" & the "temporary" stop at Five Ways Station is still there as well, how come they haven't put in a proper stop as its been there since 2018?
I also noticed there were still stops showing X20, etc on the flags as well, flags at Newman University and Hillwood Road haven't been changed
Quote from: 2206 on September 11, 2021, 03:28:43 PM
I noticed some of the flags on Weoley Avenue had been changed others haven't on the same road. On that note the X21 was following an empty Gemini along there, the X21 stopped at all the stops and picked people up, the 48 infront drove past them all, so X21 was clearly more popular along there.
On Woodcock Lane there was a notice on a wall saying "temporary bus stop" & the "temporary" stop at Five Ways Station is still there as well, how come they haven't put in a proper stop as its been there since 2018?
I also noticed there were still stops showing X20, etc on the flags as well, flags at Newman University and Hillwood Road haven't been changed
With regards to the temporary stop on Woodcock Lane, are you referring to the one that's on a tree? I still don't know why that's been put there. I wonder when the X21 will get it's next stop announcements back and whether it will include that stop.
As for the one on George Road, it does need replacing with a proper stop but also it needs moving further up the road in my opinion. It's way too close to the Saint James Road stop as it is.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 11, 2021, 04:28:42 PM
With regards to the temporary stop on Woodcock Lane, are you referring to the one that's on a tree? I still don't know why that's been put there. I wonder when the X21 will get it's next stop announcements back and whether it will include that stop.
As for the one on George Road, it does need replacing with a proper stop but also it needs moving further up the road in my opinion. It's way too close to the Saint James Road stop as it is.
It was on the wall between Shenley Fields Drive and Roundlea Road heading towards the City Centre.
Quote from: 2206 on September 11, 2021, 04:31:45 PM
It was on the wall between Shenley Fields Drive and Roundlea Road heading towards the City Centre.
Oh, okay, I haven't noticed that one. The one I'm referring to is towards Bartley Green and is pretty much opposite the flag on the other side.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 11, 2021, 05:16:40 PM
Oh, okay, I haven't noticed that one. The one I'm referring to is towards Bartley Green and is pretty much opposite the flag on the other side.
It's there because of the large stopping distance between the Jiggins Lane stop and Carmel Grove stop. The 23 didn't have this problem as it used the Romsley Road bus shelter.
Quote from: mesub on September 11, 2021, 09:52:35 PM
It's there because of the large stopping distance between the Jiggins Lane stop and Carmel Grove stop. The 23 didn't have this problem as it used the Romsley Road bus shelter.
What's that got to do with the stops on Woodcock Lane?
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 11, 2021, 11:37:21 PM
What's that got to do with the stops on Woodcock Lane?
Ah sorry, I thought you meant the temporary stop at Bartley Green.
Quote from: mesub on September 12, 2021, 09:16:46 PM
Ah sorry, I thought you meant the temporary stop at Bartley Green.
I didn't know about that one, I haven't been down there yet. I did go to Newman Uni today though, for some reason the Brett Drive stops are updated but the one by Newman Uni isn't.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 12, 2021, 09:26:43 PM
I didn't know about that one, I haven't been down there yet. I did go to Newman Uni today though, for some reason the Brett Drive stops are updated but the one by Newman Uni isn't.
They've updated the ones at Carmel Grove and Bartley Woods as well.
Just found this "News" article (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/route-changes-mean-elderly-need-21712065) from these changes.
It does bring up a fair point: Since the 96 route was changed in Castle Bromwich/Smith's Wood, there's no longer a bus from the Parkfield Estate to any local shops. The nearest shops they have access to by bus is now in Water Orton via the X13.
NX say that there was low bus usage, and that getting the X12 from Water Orton Road (accessible via back alleys from Parkfield Drive) is acceptable.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 10, 2021, 02:41:34 PM
Just found this "News" article (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/route-changes-mean-elderly-need-21712065) from these changes.
It does bring up a fair point: Since the 96 route was changed in Castle Bromwich/Smith's Wood, there's no longer a bus from the Parkfield Estate to any local shops. The nearest shops they have access to by bus is now in Water Orton via the X13.
NX say that there was low bus usage, and that getting the X12 from Water Orton Road (accessible via back alleys from Parkfield Drive) is acceptable.
But of course, i'm sure NX aren't a charity though so if the bus service is no longer viable then it will be cut. There is clearly an important line in that article that "the number of customers using the 96 in that area had been low for a long time".
I'm not to sure what shops they wanted to go to that the 96 went to. As the main shops I can think of in the East Birmingham area are on the Chester Rd (which the 96 didn't go to). Or other than that at Chelmsley Wood or the Fox & Goose.
But as you say X13 goes to Water Orton or I think theres a little tesco store on Chipperfield Rd like the one on Green Lane/Water Orton. And the X13 does continue to go to Chelmsley Wood like the 96 used to.
The X13 isn't very useful for shoppers - the first "major" supermarket served directly would be Morrisons in Coleshill.
The X12 isn't much better - serving Chelmsley Wood and adding the walk to Arden Hall is quite significant from some areas of Parkfield Estate.
The 96 served Chelmsley Wood as directly as the X12, without the walk. It also provided a near link to Sainsbury's Castle Vale.
I wondered whether the 53 could be re-routed from Hurst Lane North down to Parkfield and either doing a circuit or terminating at Park Hall School, given the Lanchester Way section was covered by the revised 96...I don't think it would be possible though without adding a vehicle or trimming the route somewhere else. At the time, the 53 served both major shopping centres in Castle Bromwich (Morrisons - Hurst Lane & Timberley Lane area) - the revised 93 no longer serves Timberley Lane.
But as others have said...if it was profitable then NX would have done it!
Quote from: 2206 on November 10, 2021, 03:09:38 PM
But of course, i'm sure NX aren't a charity though so if the bus service is no longer viable then it will be cut. There is clearly an important line in that article that "the number of customers using the 96 in that area had been low for a long time".
I'm not to sure what shops they wanted to go to that the 96 went to. As the main shops I can think of in the East Birmingham area are on the Chester Rd (which the 96 didn't go to). Or other than that at Chelmsley Wood or the Fox & Goose.
But as you say X13 goes to Water Orton or I think theres a little tesco store on Chipperfield Rd like the one on Green Lane/Water Orton. And the X13 does continue to go to Chelmsley Wood like the 96 used to.
Green Lane shops would've been where a lot of them went to. It was only one stop away from Morrisons Chester Road as well (thanks to the bus stop layout on Hurst Lane North). It's the first time since before I remember where Parkfield Drive and Green Lane weren't linked with a bus. Been through the 71, 966, 96 and now nothing. Well I guess that's what happens when patronage goes down.
Also the X13 change was roughly around the same time that the bridge in Coleshill got closed for repair until December, so that hasn't helped much.
It's areas like this where a Demand Responsive Transport system could work... we could call it WM Bus on Demand even
Quote from: the trainbasher on November 10, 2021, 04:46:22 PM
It's areas like this where a Demand Responsive Transport system could work... we could call it WM Bus on Demand even
It's North Solihull... we're hated so much that they're palming us off onto Birmingham Hodge Hill's constituency when the boundaries get changed... giving Solihull council even less reason to give a darn.
They're just happy they youths haven't gone all smashy smashy with the bus windows yet.