New consultation survey now up on the NX Bus website for South Birmingham.
I would hope that after the fiasco of the East Birmingham / North Solihull review this year, that other operators will be consulting too, or involved in this consultation in conjunction with WMCA/TfWM.
http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/south-birmingham-consultation
EDIT: Following the initial consultation, a further consultation is underway taking into account passenger feedback already received. New survey is online now:
http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/news/south-birmingham-consultation-2017-11-27
Just read through some of these ideas in the consultation. I have to say the suggestions aren't exactly offering anything new, mostly seems an excuse to curtail routes short and cut off the ends of the route. The 45/47 change to completely withdraw the 47 is terrible, Longbridge isn't the only place people want to go to! Also, why mess again with the 98 route to serve Cofton Hackett, that will make that route longer as less appealing.
I would keep the current pershore road routes but reduce frequencies after Cotteridge. I would then introduce a circular City -Cotteridge (via Pershore Rd) then via Oak Tree Lane to Bristol Road and back to City Via Shelly Oak or even QE hospital. This would maintain a high frequency over the busiest parts of the route but without having to completely cut routes. I don't think this consultation will go down particularly well at all!
I've sent an email. I'm in Weoley Castle and have suggested this.
Tin hat at the ready...
In regards to the consultation for South Birmingham I have the following suggestions. I am based in Weoley Castle but travel to / from Birmingham City Centre, Selly Oak, Northfield, Cotteridge and Kings Norton.
Route 18
I see that there are proposed changes to this and note that the current 48 service maybe terminated at Bearwood. Therefore I would propose that the 18 service runs from Yardley Wood to Weoley Castle (Via Northfield and then the current 48 route). There could be perhaps a 18A that continues from Northfield towards the direction of Bartley Green. Service 98 would still provide a direct link for passengers between Northfield and the QE.
To summarise;
18 Yardley Wood > Weoley Caslte Via Northfield
18A Yardley Wood > Allen's Cross Via Northfield
Route X64
Obviously this is no longer an express route and therefore the 'x' needs to be dropped. This route seems quite long winded at present - not helped by congestion around the QE area. Is there anything that could be done in this regard? Perhaps routing this to not call at the QE.
To summarise;
Bartley Green > Birmingham
Drop the 'X'
Don't call at the QE
Also,
NEW ROUTE 21
I think there could be benefits of a fast service linking Weoley Castle and Harborne. Perhaps a circular service that also includes the QE and Selly Oak. This could go the following route perhaps numbered the 21;
Weoley Castle Square
Weoley Castle Road
Barnes Hill
California Way
Northfield Road
War lane
Harborne High street
--- Current 48 Route --
QE
Selly Oak (Bristol Road)
--- Current X64 Route --
Weoley Castle Square
Surprised the proposal to replace the 27 by altering other routes hasn't been mentioned. I don't think that'll go down especially well.
Curtailing the 48 at QE, then providing a service to run Northfield-City via QE and Swarthmore Rd, Weoley Castle could work quite well similar to the old 44, bolsters the QE-City corridor, enabling 98E's to go.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 25, 2017, 09:04:48 PM
I've sent an email. I'm in Weoley Castle and have suggested this.
Tin hat at the ready...
In regards to the consultation for South Birmingham I have the following suggestions. I am based in Weoley Castle but travel to / from Birmingham City Centre, Selly Oak, Northfield, Cotteridge and Kings Norton.
Route 18
I see that there are proposed changes to this and note that the current 48 service maybe terminated at Bearwood. Therefore I would propose that the 18 service runs from Yardley Wood to Weoley Castle (Via Northfield and then the current 48 route). There could be perhaps a 18A that continues from Northfield towards the direction of Bartley Green. Service 98 would still provide a direct link for passengers between Northfield and the QE.
To summarise;
18 Yardley Wood > Weoley Caslte Via Northfield
18A Yardley Wood > Allen's Cross Via Northfield
Route X64
Obviously this is no longer an express route and therefore the 'x' needs to be dropped. This route seems quite long winded at present - not helped by congestion around the QE area. Is there anything that could be done in this regard? Perhaps routing this to not call at the QE.
To summarise;
Bartley Green > Birmingham
Drop the 'X'
Don't call at the QE
Also,
NEW ROUTE 21
I think there could be benefits of a fast service linking Weoley Castle and Harborne. Perhaps a circular service that also includes the QE and Selly Oak. This could go the following route perhaps numbered the 21;
Weoley Castle Square
Weoley Castle Road
Barnes Hill
California Way
Northfield Road
War lane
Harborne High street
--- Current 48 Route --
QE
Selly Oak (Bristol Road)
--- Current X64 Route --
Weoley Castle Square
The x64 idea wouldn't work as it needs to serve the QE hospital to provide the current 10 min frequency between there and the Cuty, alongside the 98. The 48 was only to reduce it back to the QE, not Bearwood. The colsultation idea of having two terminus points for the 18 might work however the 18 has always seemed a fairly busy and reliable route so I'm not sure it needs tampering with now.
My only issue is one of the publics top 4 priorities are low fares. I don't really see them as cheap.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 25, 2017, 09:32:37 PM
My only issue is one of the publics top 4 priorities are low fares. I don't really see them as cheap.
Perhaps you should go and catch some buses elsewhere
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 25, 2017, 09:32:37 PM
My only issue is one of the publics top 4 priorities are low fares. I don't really see them as cheap.
How anyone can complain about bus fares in the West Midlands is beyond me.... The current fare structure (in particular) day savers and weekly / monthly passes represent fantastic value for money.
Quote from: Tony on July 25, 2017, 09:39:16 PM
Perhaps you should go and catch some buses elsewhere
£4 from Halesowen to Quinton return is good then? Yet you can go to bilston for £3. The logic just isn't there
I've had a quick skim through all of the proposals and it has the potential to be every bit as unpopular as the East Birmingham changes. I get the congestion and worsening journey times but the potential loss of direct services from Cofton Hackett / Turves Green, Gospel Lane and Warstock to the city centre seems bizarre.
And lo and behold, it looks like the 29 will be shortened back to Northfield. I predicted that a long time ago - surprised it's taken this long to be honest.
The likely withdrawal of the 27 seems to have no coherent or well thought out replacement. The 27 worked better when it went Kings Heath to West Heath and before the constant extensions which, not surprisingly, have made it more unreliable. This was a popular and well used route when I lived in Stirchley, not least with Dame Elizabeth Cadbury school kids and Cadbury workers. I hope the many connections it provides aren't lost.
Quote from: j789 on July 25, 2017, 09:17:01 PM
The x64 idea wouldn't work as it needs to serve the QE hospital to provide the current 10 min frequency between there and the Cuty, alongside the 98. The 48 was only to reduce it back to the QE, not Bearwood. The colsultation idea of having two terminus points for the 18 might work however the 18 has always seemed a fairly busy and reliable route so I'm not sure it needs tampering with now.
Does it need a 10 minute frequency? I don't know, maybe someone would have the answer ... but it can add considerable time on going round the QE and if efficiently is one of the things they are after stuff like that needs to be looked in to.
For me getting from A to B as quickly as possible needs to be priority...
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 25, 2017, 09:52:20 PM
£4 from Halesowen to Quinton return is good then? Yet you can go to bilston for £3. The logic just isn't there
Still cheaper than a taxi!
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 25, 2017, 09:55:11 PM
Does it need a 10 minute frequency? I don't know, maybe someone would have the answer ... but it can add considerable time on going round the QE and if efficiently is one of the things they are after stuff like that needs to be looked in to.
For me getting from A to B as quickly as possible needs to be priority...
Yeah the 10 minute frequency is needed for the hospital and uni students linking with town. However, if the 99 route change hadn't happened a few months ago your idea could have worked! I still think the 98/99 worked better than the alternatives do.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 25, 2017, 09:56:26 PM
Still cheaper than a taxi!
A taxi is cleaner and is way faster
Quote from: Tony on July 25, 2017, 09:39:16 PM
Perhaps you should go and catch some buses elsewhere
I've come back from a weekend in Brighton, B&H are a much praised operator. Frequencies lower than on most NX routes, fares higher, daysavers not valid on night services!!! I reckon fares are about the most competitive in the country, happy to be proven wrong though!
Quote from: Mike K on July 25, 2017, 09:54:06 PM
I've had a quick skim through all of the proposals and it has the potential to be every bit as unpopular as the East Birmingham changes. I get the congestion and worsening journey times but the potential loss of direct services from Cofton Hackett / Turves Green, Gospel Lane and Warstock to the city centre seems bizarre.
And lo and behold, it looks like the 29 will be shortened back to Northfield. I predicted that a long time ago - surprised it's taken this long to be honest.
The likely withdrawal of the 27 seems to have no coherent or well thought out replacement. The 27 worked better when it went Kings Heath to West Heath and before the constant extensions which, not surprisingly, have made it more unreliable. This was a popular and well used route when I lived in Stirchley, not least with Dame Elizabeth Cadbury school kids and Cadbury workers. I hope the many connections it provides aren't lost.
Agreed on the 27, Kings Heath to West Heath seemed to work rather well, although saying that the current route has been in place since October 2009 review, when 19 route was created and awarded to Diamond, taking in the Pamela and South Rd portions of the route amongst others, 20 was also created to serve Swarthmore Rd but didn't last very long at all!
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 25, 2017, 10:12:36 PM
A taxi is cleaner and is way faster
A rolls Royce is Cleaner and way faster than a taxi, doesn't always make it a viable alternative however
Regardless of the contents of these changes, if it is just a survey on the NX website linked from twitter and facebook - giving, incidentally a one month consultation at a time when many passengers will be on holiday - then it does not seem sufficient to me. Despite what some who work in marketing may believe, not everybody lives their lives on social media.
I hope that these proposals are on all buses and shelters in a printed format - with an address/phone number for views in addition to the on-line survey. I will look out for such information on shelters on my travels, if there is nothing, in my opinion NX cannot truly say that the public has been consulted
Agreed that the proposals need to be widely circulated but I have to say kudos to the way the proposals have been laid out, it does give the potential to have a much more localised consultation than previous mass changes and hopefully leafletting around the affected areas or on buses along the affected routes takes place
I can see why certain changes have been proposed, giving everywhere a direct route into the city centre just isn't viable, and honestly to me the suggestions ain't all that terrible, just need some tweaking
- The Northfield to Frankley stretch of the 29/49 and the QE - Northfield stretch of the 48 could easily be one route on it's own. Then the 29 and 48 can be much more logical shorter routes, perhaps even with a much needed increase in frequency to the 48 with the 48A journeys also extended to the QE
- my issue with the proposed routing of a revised 45 is that it leaves the Wychall Lane area with no decent route to anywhere unless the 49 is increased in frequency, and cutting Cofton Hackett off from the Longbridge /Turves Green area seems strange, there should at least be some sort of provision for replacement there, perhaps getting iGo on board and sending the 145 back to Kings Norton. Beyond that the 45 route itself at a high higher frequency does to me seem a decent proposal
- curious what their proposal for the Bournville area is if they're planning on getting rid of the 27, that stretch from Kings Heath to Northfield has always been well patronised from my observations maybe just keep that section as the 27
- In the Stirchley area I would suggest taking the 76 off Warwards Lane and sending it up Umberslade Road giving a better connection to the Stirchley village area for the student population, and the 84 taking over the Raddlebarn Road Road and Warwards Lane section on it's way out towards Kings Norton
- really don't see the need to mess with the 18 and create an 18A when the general idea is to simplify routes
- while I do like the proposal to merge the 2 and 3, as with the Pershore Road it does leave a surprising section of Yardley Wood Road without a service anywhere. I particularly like the second option for the 3 where it runs to Slade Road then through Warstock to the Maypole but perhaps it should stick to a less winding route, leaving that to whatever replaces the 27 in that area
- I like the idea of shortening the 5 and leaving the 6 to pick up the city traffic. I think the 76 in this area should not be complicated by running through the Baldwin area, it's a fairly straight forward route and at the moment it does the job of working with the 6 from Solihull to Hall Green quite well. Having said that it could be altered to run as per the current 31 Solihull to Shirley
- Mixed thoughts about the Gospel Oak area. I wonder of it would make sense to keep the 31 to the city but have it completely avoid Acocks Green and run from Shaftmoor Lane straight onto Olton Boulevard and into Gospel Oak? The 1 still runs into the village and maybe a new local minibus sort of service like the current 96/99 can run instead taking on the job of connecting Acocks Green with Gospel Oak and Hall Green (including the Baldwin area) potentially even as a circular
Just had a look through the proposals and on the whole not too bad - as already mentioned the Bournville area and parts of the Yardley Wood area would need another operator (aka Diamond or Igo) to step in to provide a local link to Northfield and Kings Heath respectively.
76 being rerouted away from Robin Hood to Baldwin I don't see as an issue - gives the Baldwin a faster service to Solihull than the 5 and the 76 at times does get stuck in some heavy traffic in the Robin Hood Island vicinity at peak times - particularly Solihull bound. The 76 rerouting to serve Pineapple Road etc. is fine. However, if the 27 is withdrawn the frequency on the 76 needs to step up to every 15 minutes at least to cover the loss. The 84 extension to Northfield makes sense and again, increase the frequency, and could adequately replace the 27 round there.
Wouldn't surprise me either if the 5 switched to YW operation considering the reroute would pass right through the 6 driver changeover point and the 1 maybe being extended requiring additional resources. Scanias made redundant off the 27 could probably be put on the 84/76 and the 5 if it transferred over from AG?
One interesting thing I've just noticed :
Are NX finally considering running a service just across the Worcestershire border to serve the rest of Rubery with the 49? The proposed map of the area seems to suggest so
Would be interesting because although the area itself is currently within the NWM supported area, nBus tickets aren't valid on the First 144 so regular bus users wouldn't have passes already and so might not even catch the 49 if it did go that far
When is the South West consultation? As it seems like some of these proposed changes would effect some South West routes anyway...
First thoughts...
Having just one route along the Pershore Rd is a recipe for disaster.
The Bristol Rd between the main shopping area and pubs in Selly Oak and City needs an extra route to serve it other than just the 63 alone. The stop at Stone Rd is very busy, it only has two routes serving it, one of those is a limited stop.
The X64 should revert back to using the Bristol Rd to between City and Selly Oak, or the 98 re-routed to something similar of the old 62. The re-numbering to 62 would also fit in with X61 / 62 / 63 making it simpler for passengers.
The old 61 / 62 /63 worked well for years. Simple routes giving passengers direct routes along the Bristol Rd into the City.
The X64 should not be put back on the Bristol Road, in my opinion. I would bring the 62 back though. Why not have every other 63 become the 62 to Rednal / Cofton Hackett? Both running every 15 mins so it'd keep the same 7/8 mins frequency?
Have looked through the consultation and as I dont really live in the affected areas, it's not really fair that I should comment.
The thing that does disturb me is that NE seem to want to start cutting out routes with narrow roads and taking out bus stops so that buses do not have to stop so often.
This to me would really inconvenience any elderly or disabled people who live on these routes. Yes stopping frequently does mean bus journies are slower, but surely that is the point of public transport.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 26, 2017, 02:17:26 PM
Have looked through the consultation and as I dont really live in the affected areas, it's not really fair that I should comment.
The thing that does disturb me is that NE seem to want to start cutting out routes with narrow roads and taking out bus stops so that buses do not have to stop so often.
This to me would really inconvenience any elderly or disabled people who live on these routes. Yes stopping frequently does mean bus journies are slower, but surely that is the point of public transport.
There's simply too many cars nowadays! Years ago, there were roads that buses could happily pass down with no problem, but now you have more households with more than one car, and these same streets buses are struggling to get through now due to the increase in the number of parked cars, leading to increased journey times.
I agree that the needs and considerations of elderly and disabled passengers need to be taken into account, but if clogged roads are causing bus reliability issues, then some unpopular decisions are going to have to be made.
Don't forget, a lot of side streets were planned and built back in the days when hardly anyone owned a car; the road infrastructure just simply can't cope with the volume of cars now.
Quote from: Stu on July 26, 2017, 07:19:36 PM
There's simply too many cars nowadays! Years ago, there were roads that buses could happily pass down with no problem, but now you have more households with more than one car, and these same streets buses are struggling to get through now due to the increase in the number of parked cars, leading to increased journey times.
I agree that the needs and considerations of elderly and disabled passengers need to be taken into account, but if clogged roads are causing bus reliability issues, then some unpopular decisions are going to have to be made.
Don't forget, a lot of side streets were planned and built back in the days when hardly anyone owned a car; the road infrastructure just simply can't cope with the volume of cars now.
Agree that the number of cars and questionable parking are undoubtedly becoming more of an issue - but if you look at a West Midlands bus route map from the 1980s, far fewer minor roads were served by buses than is the case now. Maybe the answer is to revert more to that model and keep more buses onto busier wider roads. I don't however think the answer is to leave so many outer suburbs without a direct bus into the city. Take the 47, for example. I'd be interested to know how that route is so problematic between Kings Norton and Turves Green - withdrawing it would be absurd in my opinion.
Quote from: Mike K on July 26, 2017, 07:45:11 PM
Agree that the number of cars and questionable parking are undoubtedly becoming more of an issue - but if you look at a West Midlands bus route map from the 1980s, far fewer minor roads were served by buses than is the case now. Maybe the answer is to revert more to that model and keep more buses onto busier wider roads. I don't however think the answer is to leave so many outer suburbs without a direct bus into the city. Take the 47, for example. I'd be interested to know how that route is so problematic between Kings Norton and Turves Green - withdrawing it would be absurd in my opinion.
As I see it, and I can see what is being hinted at with these consultations, is that because there are so many routes that go from 'outlying' areas of Birmingham to the city centre, with the increased congestion in and around the city centre, the routes have become unreliable for those using those services just in the 'outlying' areas.
If the infrastructure was there in place, it should be theoretically better for passengers in the suburbs to have more 'local' bus routes that would operate more reliably, and then connect to more frequent services operating along key trunk roads. It would mean that passengers who travel to and from the city would have to change buses to complete their journey admittedly, but as in your example, 'local' buses between Kings Norton and Turves Green would run on time more often, as they wouldn't be getting stuck in congestion closer to the city centre.
I'm not familiar with much of the area covered in this consultation, apart from the Stratford Road part; I can see the advantage of curtailing the 31 and making it a 'local' service between Acocks Green and Shirley/Solihull only, with passengers wanting to continue on to the city centre changing onto more frequent 6 or 37 services. Those people who only travel between Gospel Oak and Solihull/Shirley must get annoyed when their buses are delayed due to congestion caused elsewhere along the route.
As I replied earlier, some tough decisions are going to have to be made, and some passengers are going to have to change their travelling habits, but if in the long term it makes bus travel more reliable it can only be a good thing. We can't always get a direct bus service to where we want to go unfortunately.
Combining the 2 and 3 needs to be done carefully as what they're suggesting leaves a huge section with no bus service.
The situation with congestion really needs to be resolved, simplifying bus routes is only a temporary remedy.
Quote from: Stu on July 26, 2017, 08:36:59 PM
As I see it, and I can see what is being hinted at with these consultations, is that because there are so many routes that go from 'outlying' areas of Birmingham to the city centre, with the increased congestion in and around the city centre, the routes have become unreliable for those using those services just in the 'outlying' areas.
If the infrastructure was there in place, it should be theoretically better for passengers in the suburbs to have more 'local' bus routes that would operate more reliably, and then connect to more frequent services operating along key trunk roads. It would mean that passengers who travel to and from the city would have to change buses to complete their journey admittedly, but as in your example, 'local' buses between Kings Norton and Turves Green would run on time more often, as they wouldn't be getting stuck in congestion closer to the city centre.
I'm not familiar with much of the area covered in this consultation, apart from the Stratford Road part; I can see the advantage of curtailing the 31 and making it a 'local' service between Acocks Green and Shirley/Solihull only, with passengers wanting to continue on to the city centre changing onto more frequent 6 or 37 services. Those people who only travel between Gospel Oak and Solihull/Shirley must get annoyed when their buses are delayed due to congestion caused elsewhere along the route.
As I replied earlier, some tough decisions are going to have to be made, and some passengers are going to have to change their travelling habits, but if in the long term it makes bus travel more reliable it can only be a good thing. We can't always get a direct bus service to where we want to go unfortunately.
I agree in principal with what you are saying
@Stu , however if you are going to start to cut bus routes in half and make it so more people need to change bus to achieve there journey, surely it would be more sensible to do what London have done and make a ticket valid for an hour so people who will need to change bus will not be penalised. I know people will say that you could buy a Daysaver or Nbus day ticket, however what about for example an oap who still works and travels into town before 09:30.
Quote from: Stu on July 26, 2017, 08:36:59 PM
If the infrastructure was there in place, it should be theoretically better for passengers in the suburbs to have more 'local' bus routes that would operate more reliably, and then connect to more frequent services operating along key trunk roads. It would mean that passengers who travel to and from the city would have to change buses to complete their journey admittedly, but as in your example, 'local' buses between Kings Norton and Turves Green would run on time more often, as they wouldn't be getting stuck in congestion closer to the city centre.
If the trunk route buses from Birmingham are going to bunch owing to congestion, when they get to the outer point where the feeder buses take over, surely there would be too many passengers for the feeder bus meaning people will have to wait - which would defeat the object of the exercise (always presuming passenger convenience and service is at the root of the proposal....
27 is an interesting one, personally think it could be split in two at Northfield for a start, pretty much most trips, everyone on the bus will leave in Northfield and a whole new set of passengers will board, obviously you get your through passengers but not many!
Centro have been carrying out checks/survey on behalf of NXWM between Haunch Lane, Kings Heath, Shirley and Cadbury over the last few weeks, I did ask about why and was told to ask NX as they had no idea why they were there either.
Quote from: don on July 26, 2017, 11:42:39 PM
If the trunk route buses from Birmingham are going to bunch owing to congestion, when they get to the outer point where the feeder buses take over, surely there would be too many passengers for the feeder bus meaning people will have to wait - which would defeat the object of the exercise (always presuming passenger convenience and service is at the root of the proposal....
I think local services connecting onto frequent services heading towards the city works fine as you potentially only have a 5-10 min wait for your frequent bus service to take you into Birmingham.
Coming back is where there are issues as often local services are every 20/30 minutes and therefore there can be potentially some long waiting times for customers wanting to change buses to get home.
Quote from: sonic84 on July 27, 2017, 08:01:28 PM
I think local services connecting onto frequent services heading towards the city works fine as you potentially only have a 5-10 min wait for your frequent bus service to take you into Birmingham.
Coming back is where there are issues as often local services are every 20/30 minutes and therefore there can be potentially some long waiting times for customers wanting to change buses to get home.
Personally I just don't find changing buses as seem less as changing trains, especially when it comes to fares
The road network isn't good in South Birmingham and the use of trains has increased a lot as a result. Nonetheless, I regret I have strong reservations about these proposals. They could mean just one bus service along the Stratford Road (south of Sparkbrook), one along Yardley Wood Road and one along the Pershore Road - just as in tramway days 100 years ago.
I appreciate that NXWM needs to have a strong commercial network, and an easy-to-understand network of frequent services is a good thing, but I do wonder whether many proposals would be counter-productive. Has travel to the city centre really dropped so much that several areas should lose their direct service? If not, routes should not be split so that many passengers have to change buses to reach a principal destination. History shows that doing so is very unpopular and a recipe for driving passengers away.
The idea of faster journeys is fine in principle, but there are hardly any examples of it. There are many more examples of longer journeys - Turves Green, Warstock and much of Hall Green to City being just three. Some route change options for the 1, 49 and 76 (which of course don't reach the city centre and often suffer bad delays at peak times) would also extend journey times and do nothing to improve timekeeping. Would they stand to lose more passengers than they might gain?
If NX want to speed up journeys they should collaborate with Bham City Council about traffic light sequences and investing in more traffic lights with sensors.
A prime example is the lights on Bristol Rd / Bournbrook Rd - late at night they will change onto red when no traffic is emerging from anywhere else, in fact they will change onto GREEN for trafic coming from the university - even though the gates are CLOSED! Waiting at these lights has a knock on effect as you will more than likely get held up at the next stop.
In Birmingham City centre the pedestrian lights around Moor St Queensway are set to change automatically regardless of being pressed by a pedestrian. WHY?? The lights on Moor St Qway / Albert St dont change in sync, traffic heading uphill (33, 51, 52 etc) are held on red for an extra 15 seconds while the other side (97 etc) are on green. WHY??
I have emailed Bham City Council, but they never seem bothered. Maybe I should write to the Birmingham Mail to highlight this problem...
Quote from: sonic84 on July 27, 2017, 08:01:28 PM
I think local services connecting onto frequent services heading towards the city works fine as you potentially only have a 5-10 min wait for your frequent bus service to take you into Birmingham.
Coming back is where there are issues as often local services are every 20/30 minutes and therefore there can be potentially some long waiting times for customers wanting to change buses to get home.
Yes that was the point I was making - and if they arrive from city bunched, there would no doubt be too many people for the one bus on the feeder route also.
In London the system usually works well (indeed I have at least four alternative combinations of train, tram or bus, or just bus) for my regular commute - however it relies on the fact that all of the services run at least every 15 mins and the no extra charge on the Oyster within 1 hour means any of these (except involving the train) cost £1.50 on an Oyster card.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on July 27, 2017, 09:26:18 PM
The road network isn't good in South Birmingham and the use of trains has increased a lot as a result. Nonetheless, I regret I have strong reservations about these proposals. They could mean just one bus service along the Stratford Road (south of Sparkbrook), one along Yardley Wood Road and one along the Pershore Road - just as in tramway days 100 years ago.
On a similar retrospective look, it struck me that in the mid 60s, routes like the 4 (Cotteridge to Pool Farm); 35 (Brandwood Park Road to Kings Heath) and 46 (Queslett to College Road/Boars Head) all started out as single deck, one person operated feeder routes but were changed within a relatively short time (at least the 35 and 46) to run to and from the City - eventually changing to double deck operation.
This proposal does seem like a reversal of that principal.
Quote from: B.C Driver on July 28, 2017, 12:48:23 PM
In Birmingham City centre the pedestrian lights around Moor St Queensway are set to change automatically regardless of being pressed by a pedestrian. WHY?? The lights on Moor St Qway / Albert St dont change in sync, traffic heading uphill (33, 51, 52 etc) are held on red for an extra 15 seconds while the other side (97 etc) are on green. WHY??
I have emailed Bham City Council, but they never seem bothered. Maybe I should write to the Birmingham Mail to highlight this problem...
The 'Pedestrian lights' you refer to are not just pedestrian lights they are a cross roads. When they go red to traffic the lights to let buses go across into The tunnel go green. All traffic lights change to a pattern even if there is not traffic there in case the sensors haven't picked up any waiting traffic. You would soon complain if you had to sit there ages with a 45/47; 63/X61 or Harborne bus.
Albert Street is for the protection of pedestrians
Quote from: Tony on July 28, 2017, 01:05:26 PM
The 'Pedestrian lights' you refer to are not just pedestrian lights they are a cross roads. When they go red to traffic the lights to let buses go across into The tunnel go green. All traffic lights change to a pattern even if there is not traffic there in case the sensors haven't picked up any waiting traffic. You would soon complain if you had to sit there ages with a 45/47; 63/X61 or Harborne bus.
Albert Street is for the protection of pedestrians
The lights at the end of the tunnel (coming into city) change on to red regardless of being pressed. They are only pedestrian lights. It is highly infuriating when trying to run to tight running times and trying to keep on time.
The ammount of times Ive stopped at the lights on Moor St Qway late at night and NO vehicles have crossed over from Albert St. Again, infuriating. I know plenty of traffic lights with sensors and they work well, we need more. This is 2017!
Speed limits too. NX want faster journey times, as do passengers. So why for example is Heath Mill Lane 20mph??
It is a road consisting of mainly factorys and warehouses. There are no schools, no old peoples homes, in fact no houses.
The Pershore Rd is 20mph through Stirchley, then 30mph after Fordhouse Ln (it is 30mph where Breedon School is!!!), and then reverts to 20mph approaching Cotteridge.
What is the logic in that? A main 'A' road linking the City 20mph? And then 30mph by a school?
Seriously, who makes these ideas?
Quote from: B.C Driver on July 28, 2017, 01:42:31 PM
The lights at the end of the tunnel (coming into city) change on to red regardless of being pressed. They are only pedestrian lights. It is highly infuriating when trying to run to tight running times and trying to keep on time.
The ammount of times Ive stopped at the lights on Moor St Qway late at night and NO vehicles have crossed over from Albert St. Again, infuriating. I know plenty of traffic lights with sensors and they work well, we need more. This is 2017!
Those lights are all part of the crossroads. They have sensors, but every set of lights changes occasionally in case of fault even with no detection apparant. There are very strict national guidelines Amey have to adheer to on traffic lights. I have had a load of work done all the way along Moor Street, but Amey have to stick to National rules
Quote from: Tony on July 28, 2017, 02:47:22 PM
Those lights are all part of the crossroads. They have sensors, but every set of lights changes occasionally in case of fault even with no detection apparant. There are very strict national guidelines Amey have to adheer to on traffic lights. I have had a load of work done all the way along Moor Street, but Amey have to stick to National rules
Ok cheers Tony.
Found this on Facebook
http://bournvilleconservatives.com/save-the-27-bus
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 06, 2017, 08:18:12 PM
http://bournvilleconservatives.com/save-the-27-bus
Instead of signing petitions, people should be taking part in the consultation and making their opinions heard.
The 27 began operating in 2003 Hawkesley kings heath previous the route was covered by 35 doing a long loop Circle King's Heath pool FARM Hawkesley back to Kings heath this seemed a long pointless route but lasted many years I think the 35 took over the 27 in 1994.
My suggestions for the South Birmingham Consultation (not all routes), so get ready to shoot me down in flames !
NEW 20 and 21 - route 20 to replace 98 from City to Rednal (Rubery to be served by 48), 21 to replace X64
NEW 26 - Yardley Wood to Northfield via present 27 route to Maypole, then via Pool farm to Hawkesley, then as 27 to Northfield.
27 - Yardley Wood to Northfield only.
Both 26 and 27 to have adjacent bus stops in Northfield to make it easier for passengers to swap buses.
48 - withdrawn between QE Hospital and West Bromwich, extended via 49 route to Rubery, then 98 to Longbridge and terminate at Longbridge Station.
48A - withdrawn
49 - Solihull to Rubery only and run direct from Maypole to Cotteridge. (section to Northfield replaced by 48, Pool farm replaced by 26 and 84).
NEW 50 and 50A (West Bromwich routes) to replace sections of 48 and 48A
84 - Re-routed to serve Pool Farm between Cotteridge and Hawkesley
98 and X64 withdrawn - see NEW 20 and 21 (following same routes).
Routes like the X64 and 98 are not part of the South Birmingham consultation.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 10, 2017, 04:30:16 PM
Routes like the X64 and 98 are not part of the South Birmingham consultation.
98 is; under the Rubery, Rednal & Coften Hackett proposals.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 10, 2017, 02:09:23 PM
My suggestions for the South Birmingham Consultation (not all routes), so get ready to shoot me down in flames !
NEW 20 and 21 - route 20 to replace 98 from City to Rednal (Rubery to be served by 48), 21 to replace X64
NEW 26 - Yardley Wood to Northfield via present 27 route to Maypole, then via Pool farm to Hawkesley, then as 27 to Northfield.
27 - Yardley Wood to Northfield only.
Both 26 and 27 to have adjacent bus stops in Northfield to make it easier for passengers to swap buses.
48 - withdrawn between QE Hospital and West Bromwich, extended via 49 route to Rubery, then 98 to Longbridge and terminate at Longbridge Station.
48A - withdrawn
49 - Solihull to Rubery only and run direct from Maypole to Cotteridge. (section to Northfield replaced by 48, Pool farm replaced by 26 and 84).
NEW 50 and 50A (West Bromwich routes) to replace sections of 48 and 48A
84 - Re-routed to serve Pool Farm between Cotteridge and Hawkesley
98 and X64 withdrawn - see NEW 20 and 21 (following same routes).
What on earth is the ppint in withdrawing the 48/A between QE and WB for it to be replaced by another service almost directly?
Quote from: clayderman on August 10, 2017, 04:55:23 PM
98 is; under the Rubery, Rednal & Coften Hackett proposals.
Sorry, yes. I forgot about that.
When is this consultation period open until? And when would we likely see the changes implemented?
Any news of when the changes will be made from this consultation?
It's back on the website
Yes it is back on the website with a lot more suggestions, including the X64 and 98 being withdrawn. The X61 being extended through Great Park to Rednal, Cofton Hackett and Longbridge.
The 47 no longer serving the Pershore Road and running from Cotteridge to the QE Hospital and on to Birmingham via The Vale
The 22 would no longer serve Harborne and run via Quinton Road to the QE Hospital and on to Birmingham via The Vale
The 24 would no longer run a loop around Woodgate Valley North and will instead run via Dwellings Lane, Simmons Drive and Quinton Road West to terminate where the Monarch used to be.
The 63 would terminate at Gannow, Boleyn Road rather than Arden Road
The X61 would also serve the QE Hospital
There are a number of other potential changes they are now consulting on, such as more services running to / from the QE Hospital.
It's hard work wading through it all but very comprehensive
Quote from: sonic84 on November 27, 2017, 06:58:05 PM
Yes it is back on the website with a lot more suggestions, including the X64 and 98 being withdrawn. The X61 being extended through Great Park to Rednal, Cofton Hackett and Longbridge.
The 47 no longer serving the Pershore Road and running from Cotteridge to the QE Hospital and on to Birmingham via The Vale
The 22 would no longer serve Harborne and run via Quinton Road to the QE Hospital and on to Birmingham via The Vale
The 24 would no longer run a loop around Woodgate Valley North and will instead run via Dwellings Lane, Simmons Drive and Quinton Road West to terminate where the Monarch used to be.
The 63 would terminate at Gannow, Boleyn Road rather than Arden Road
The X61 would also serve the QE Hospital
There are a number of other potential changes they are now consulting on, such as more services running to / from the QE Hospital.
One of the changes is 244 West Brom-quinton-Qe
Oh dear.
Any idea to send more buses through the QE is just stupid, especially "express" services
I'm sorry, the interchange there is not adequate, takes forever for buses to get through
Quote from: Kevin on November 27, 2017, 07:41:26 PM
Oh dear.
Any idea to send more buses through the QE is just stupid, especially "express" services
I'm sorry, the interchange there is not adequate, takes forever for buses to get through
Some Room would be made by the 98 and X64 being withdrawn.
Quote from: 2206 on November 27, 2017, 07:58:24 PM
Some Room would be made by the 98 and X64 being withdrawn.
I think
@Kevin means all the taxis that block the road, the road is extremely narrow.
Quote from: Kevin on November 27, 2017, 07:41:26 PM
Oh dear.
Any idea to send more buses through the QE is just stupid, especially "express" services
I'm sorry, the interchange there is not adequate, takes forever for buses to get through
Been a while since I used to travel past the QE on the 99 regularly, but the traffic there would be horrendous and if there was a car or taxi parked outside the main entrance, you had it. I think it took one 99 I was on nearly 15 minutes just to do the loop at the interchange. So the idea of sending more buses to interchange is personally asking for long delays to services.
Some radical proposals in there. If the 22/23 proposals were implemented then either Jiggins Lane or South Woodgate would lose their link to Harborne, and the 'new' service via QE and the Vale would have to be single deck operated. I suspect that the 23 (or whatever route remains) would not operate at the same frequency that the combined routes do now, and a lot of Edgbaston and Harborne could potentially lose direct links to Newman College and KE Five Ways school.
Seems strange timing for 38 new Platinum buses for the Harborne corridor when at least one of the 4 routes (22, 23 or 29) could be changing and requiring single deckers.
Quote from: Mike K on November 27, 2017, 09:41:02 PM
Some radical proposals in there. If the 22/23 proposals were implemented then either Jiggins Lane or South Woodgate would lose their link to Harborne, and the 'new' service via QE and the Vale would have to be single deck operated. I suspect that the 23 (or whatever route remains) would not operate at the same frequency that the combined routes do now, and a lot of Edgbaston and Harborne could potentially lose direct links to Newman College and KE Five Ways school.
Seems strange timing for 38 new Platinum buses for the Harborne corridor when at least one of the 4 routes (22, 23 or 29) could be changing and requiring single deckers.
Personally I like the idea for the 1 to serve the University and QE linking them with Acocks Green and Moesley.
The more direct 31 for Gospel Oak looks good as well, stopping right outside the shops in Acocks Green.
What are the proposals for the 244? I can see it says West Bromwich to QE via Quinton but the proposed map on the QE page seems to show it finishing at Quinton Tesco. I couldn't see any details on that one.
Just realised that the possible 22 change is a throwback to the 1980 short lived route 72 which the 22 replaced. And I can't see the point in changing the 24 to remove the Simmons Drive loop - a lot of people including the elderly would face a much longer walk to their nearest stop.
All in all, whilst acknowledging that things need to be done to improve reliability and journey times, I can't say I'm impressed with these proposals.
Quote from: 2206 on November 27, 2017, 09:47:22 PM
Personally I like the idea for the 1 to serve the University and QE linking them with Acocks Green and Moesley.
The more direct 31 for Gospel Oak looks good as well, stopping right outside the shops in Acocks Green.
I agree with the 1 being curtailed. But not the 31. You may as well, just let it be Solihull to Acocks Green. If it was to follow the 37 from Acocks Green to City it will be one waste of time. The 37 serves that section well. I think the only change for the 31 is for it not to use Pitmaston Road, too tight and when the schools come out then the buses get stuck. I think it would be better for the 31 to serve Redstone Farm Road as it will move and not get stuck on tight Pitmaston Road.
Quote from: Jack on November 27, 2017, 10:18:23 PM
I agree with the 1 being curtailed. But not the 31. You may as well, just let it be Solihull to Acocks Green. If it was to follow the 37 from Acocks Green to City it will be one waste of time. The 37 serves that section well. I think the only change for the 31 is for it not to use Pitmaston Road, too tight and when the schools come out then the buses get stuck. I think it would be better for the 31 to serve Redstone Farm Road as it will move and not get stuck on tight Pitmaston Road.
Not realy a waste of time, it'd provide a faster journey time to the City Centre and they wouldn't have to sit in Stratford Road traffic around Sparkhill. The consultation says when people were previously consulted about the changes in Gospel Oak they said the link to Birmingham was important to them as well.
Just because it'd follow the 37 wouldn't make it a waste of time.
Quote from: Mike K on November 27, 2017, 10:07:26 PM
I can't see the point in changing the 24 to remove the Simmons Drive loop - a lot of people including the elderly would face a much longer walk to their nearest stop.
I was thinking about that as well and if that happens I guess it would make sense to throw 10H/S there.
Quote from: Mike K on November 27, 2017, 09:41:02 PM
Some radical proposals in there. If the 22/23 proposals were implemented then either Jiggins Lane or South Woodgate would lose their link to Harborne, and the 'new' service via QE and the Vale would have to be single deck operated. I suspect that the 23 (or whatever route remains) would not operate at the same frequency that the combined routes do now, and a lot of Edgbaston and Harborne could potentially lose direct links to Newman College and KE Five Ways school.
Seems strange timing for 38 new Platinum buses for the Harborne corridor when at least one of the 4 routes (22, 23 or 29) could be changing and requiring single deckers.
There's nothing about the 244 except where it says West Brom and the map.
Could it just be an error perhaps?
Quote from: 2206 on November 27, 2017, 09:47:22 PM
Personally I like the idea for the 1 to serve the University and QE linking them with Acocks Green and Moesley.
The more direct 31 for Gospel Oak looks good as well, stopping right outside the shops in Acocks Green.
I agree with that. I wasn't really a fan of the idea to curtail the 31 to run between Acocks Green and Solihull
Let's just hope they don't reduce the frequency of the 37 :/
Quote from: 2206 on November 27, 2017, 10:28:52 PM
Not realy a waste of time, it'd provide a faster journey time to the City Centre and they wouldn't have to sit in Stratford Road traffic around Sparkhill. The consultation says when people were previously consulted about the changes in Gospel Oak they said the link to Birmingham was important to them as well.
Just because it'd follow the 37 wouldn't make it a waste of time.
What's the point? The 31 doesn't need to follow the 37 for most of the route. I highly doubt the 37 will have a reduced frequency, being it combines with the 6, the 6 and 37 are the most frequent services on Stratford Road. I never hear anyone moan about the 31 taking ages to get through Stratford Road. It's mainly just the daytimes and evening rush hour it's bad, I've been on the 2 and 6 a few times at 7:30 in the morning and they flew through Sparkhill at that time so the 5 and 31 would be the same. The only change I think the 31 needs to make is to serve Redstone Farm Road so it's not stuck in chaos on Pitmaston Road. Unless you completely rerouted it and don't let it serve Gospel Oak at all, but that will never happen.
Quote from: Bus1237 on November 27, 2017, 10:49:06 PM
Let's just hope they don't reduce the frequency of the 37 :/
I highly doubt that.
I've not read it fully yet, but these proposed changes are even worse than I feared. Why can't they just be left alone?!
Because of increased traffic and reliability issues I'm guessing
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 28, 2017, 05:20:38 AM
Because of increased traffic and reliability issues I'm guessing
I've not experienced many reliability issues to be quite honest with you. Besides, it doesn't matter which route you take there'll always be traffic. Destroying long-standing routes and coming up with bizzare replacements won't change that.
Well I guess they need to increase their profits if they can make their network more efficient etc
I'm all for changes over nostalgia routes. Nostalgia doesn't get me to work on time - an efficient network will maybe improve the current scenario which at times is becoming farcical.
I worry here that they'll stealthily reduce service levels.
Example, replacing the 22/23 with one single route but not actually maintaining the frequency those areas had, maybe claiming turn up and go frequency through Harborne joint with the 24 but down to every 10 on the rest
Quote from: Jack on November 27, 2017, 11:08:40 PM
What's the point? The 31 doesn't need to follow the 37 for most of the route. I highly doubt the 37 will have a reduced frequency, being it combines with the 6, the 6 and 37 are the most frequent services on Stratford Road. I never hear anyone moan about the 31 taking ages to get through Stratford Road. It's mainly just the daytimes and evening rush hour it's bad, I've been on the 2 and 6 a few times at 7:30 in the morning and they flew through Sparkhill at that time so the 5 and 31 would be the same. The only change I think the 31 needs to make is to serve Redstone Farm Road so it's not stuck in chaos on Pitmaston Road. Unless you completely rerouted it and don't let it serve Gospel Oak at all, but that will never happen.
I highly doubt that.
Faster journey time to the City Centre for people in Gospel Oak would be the point. The daytimes and evening rush hour would be when it's most used surely, evening rush hour especially? I don't realy see any problems with the proposed changes, the 1/1A would still provide local links with Springfield, Acocks Green and Gospel Oak.
Quote from: Kevin on November 28, 2017, 01:44:37 PM
I worry here that they'll stealthily reduce service levels.
Example, replacing the 22/23 with one single route but not actually maintaining the frequency those areas had, maybe claiming turn up and go frequency through Harborne joint with the 24 but down to every 10 on the rest
I thought that, with the proposal to re-direct the 47 through the QE. Surely wouldn't still be every 12 minutes if it was re-directed
Quote from: 2206 on November 28, 2017, 06:06:03 PM
Faster journey time to the City Centre for people in Gospel Oak would be the point. The daytimes and evening rush hour would be when it's most used surely, evening rush hour especially? I don't realy see any problems with the proposed changes, the 1/1A would still provide local links with Springfield, Acocks Green and Gospel Oak.
I'm sure the extra double deckers at peak time between City & Acocks Green would also be welcomed along the Warwick Road.
I think the 1A would be a welcome addition, meaning that not all journeys to Five Ways will increase in length
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 28, 2017, 06:14:08 PM
I thought that, with the proposal to re-direct the 47 through the QE. Surely wouldn't still be every 12 minutes if it was re-directed
I would think that every 20 minutes is more likely
The point of this consultation (as well as others) is to get feedback and opinions from passengers in those areas who actually use these services as an essential part of their daily lives (ie to get to work or go shopping etc).
The facts of the matter are:
- That traffic congestion, especially at peak times, is a major issue for service reliability
- That passenger habits have changed, ie employment opportunities have changed, and retail opportunities have changed.
- Even road layouts have changed
On the whole, we have a bus network dating back to the 1980s, if not earlier, even taking into account recent reviews that have taken place this century.
Times have changed, and people have moved on, what might have been a great bus network in the 1980s is clearly not fit for purpose today. So I agree with the earlier reply, there's no point moaning about bus services changing because 'nostalgia'. 8)
But there is also a lot more to be done, as traffic congestion isn't going away. The whole road network around Birmingham is simply not designed to cope with the volume of traffic we are seeing every day now. The recent Bordesley Circus 'pinch-point' works have become a joke, as they were clearly designed to alleviate a 'pinch-point' provided the traffic on the ring road was flowing freely. But because the ring road is frequently becoming congested (due to traffic issues elsewhere, namely the Aston Expressway and M6!), the Bordesley Circus design just means now that Coventry Road is the new 'pinch-point', meaning the 17, 60, X1 and X2 end up getting seriously delayed.
Anyway, I'm starting to rant, so I'd better calm down. My point is that what these consultations need is for actual commuting passengers to take part and make their views known, as the risk is that these reviews end up getting distorted by 'bus-bashers' who just travel around on buses for the sake of doing so (nothing against actual 'bus-bashers' by the way, but I hope you see where I'm coming from).
So please do feel free to have an opinion, but bear in mind that if change is going to take place, it must be shaped by people who actually rely on bus services, the people who hold the key to making a more useful bus network.
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 28, 2017, 07:16:39 AM
Destroying long-standing routes and coming up with bizzare replacements won't change that.
Have you ever been to London? London is full of what what you might consider 'bizarre' routes, that just seem to go to random places, but you know what, it works.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on November 28, 2017, 10:03:44 AM
I'm all for changes over nostalgia routes. Nostalgia doesn't get me to work on time - an efficient network will maybe improve the current scenario which at times is becoming farcical.
I completely agree. While I'm of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset generally, the whole West Midlands bus network badly needs a massive overhaul, and I don't really care if any 'historic' bus routes get altered beyond recognition, if that is what is actually needed.
It's nothing to do with nostalgia. My point is, traffic is going to happen no matter which way you enter and depart the city centre. So I really don't see how chopping and changing the outbound section of routes is going to make things any better. I can't comment from everybody's perspective but fron mine I cannot see any benefits. What stands as two routes into the City that take the same amount of time, will by the looks of things be replaced with 1 route. Will this improve reliability? No. Does travelling along the Vale to and from City avoid the traffic? No. I've been on plenty of journeys that have crawled along those roads. Also the QE consultation I counted NINE routes being suggested to go in and out of it. Which is beyond ridiculous. It can just about cope with the amount that goes there now. Diverting the X61 there is laughable. You might as well remove the X now as those journies that will apparently also now include Cofton Hackett and Rubery will become very long-winded.
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 28, 2017, 08:05:36 PM
It's nothing to do with nostalgia. My point is, traffic is going to happen no matter which way you enter and depart the city centre.
No, some corridors suffer far worse than others, at the moment Harborne Road is by far the worst, so that affects the whole rest of your comments
You make some valid points Stu which I wouldn't disagree with, however on the south west and south side of the city the suggestions largely centre around 'simplifying' core routes, which means basically reducing 2 routes down to one which is unlikely to maintain the old combined frequency, and having a second route which diverts via the QE Hospital and into the city.
There seems to be a misguided notion that sending certain routes via the QE and The Vale etc will improve journey times and reliability.
Well it didn't work out well for the 99.
Quote from: Tony on November 28, 2017, 08:07:49 PM
No, some corridors suffer far worse than others, at the moment Harborne Road is by far the worst, so that affects the whole rest of your comments
No it doesn't, the X64 doesn't use the Harborne Road. Neither does the X61.
As for your comment though, surely the Harbone Road itself isn't as much the problem as is the fact that they loop around the entire city centre before departing it? Surely a lot of time could be saved by returning these routes back to Colemore Row? I understand the New Street link has been profitable but if delays are caused at such a severe magnitude then is it worth it?
Quote from: Mike K on November 28, 2017, 08:10:29 PM
There seems to be a misguided notion that sending certain routes via the QE and The Vale etc will improve journey times and reliability.
This. In a nutshell. Sums it all up.
Quote from: Mike K on November 28, 2017, 08:10:29 PM
You make some valid points Stu which I wouldn't disagree with, however on the south west and south side of the city the suggestions largely centre around 'simplifying' core routes, which means basically reducing 2 routes down to one which is unlikely to maintain the old combined frequency, and having a second route which diverts via the QE Hospital and into the city.
There seems to be a misguided notion that sending certain routes via the QE and The Vale etc will improve journey times and reliability.
Well it didn't work out well for the 99.
My point is that I don't use those services in the southwest and south side of the city, so I don't really have any valid opinions to share, so I am not going to make any suggestions for that area of the review, as its not really my place.
I would hate for the consultation to be influenced by people who don't regularly use those services, but like things how they are, "because its a nice scenic route" or "its always gone that way" etc. It must be ultimately up to those passengers who rely on those routes. If there is a large demand from passengers for buses to go to the QE or University, because that is what they want, they should be listened to.
Anyway, I agree with the proposal for the 31 service, as it would become another useful route for me to get home, alongside the 37, which is actually becoming quicker for me, rather than getting the X1/X2 in the evenings. So I have submitted my comments on this area of the consultation, as it is actually relevant to me. ;)
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 28, 2017, 08:13:07 PM
No it doesn't, the X64 doesn't use the Harborne Road. Neither does the X61.
As for your comment though, surely the Harbone Road itself isn't as much the problem as is the fact that they loop around the entire city centre before departing it? Surely a lot of time could be saved by returning these routes back to Colemore Row? I understand the New Street link has been profitable but if delays are caused at such a severe magnitude then is it worth it?
I spend most of my working time in Urban Traffic Control centre at Lancaster Circus watching traffic flows on both the NX system and the Birmingham Council/Amey Traffic control Cameras.
On Harborne Road it regularly takes 15 minutes from the bottom of the High Street to the white Swan, a distance of not much more than a mile. I can walk at that pace. They do not get delayed around the city loop in general in the mornings and the time it takes is obviously scheduled in, so it is not a delay.
In the morning peak on a normal day Harborne Road and Hagley Road are by far the worst roads to be coming into Birmingham on. Of course all other roads in have bad days, but the staff in the UTC can help traffic flows with manual control of traffic lights at some places, but the worst part of Harborne Road has no traffic light controlled junctions so they cannot help at all
What time is classed as the morning peak? I know that it's most likely after the time I get the bus into town, but I'm just curious.
Quote from: Stu on November 28, 2017, 08:24:45 PM
My point is that I don't use those services in the southwest and south side of the city, so I don't really have any valid opinions to share, so I am not going to make any suggestions for that area of the review, as its not really my place.
I would hate for the consultation to be influenced by people who don't regularly use those services, but like things how they are, "because its a nice scenic route" or "its always gone that way" etc. It must be ultimately up to those passengers who rely on those routes. If there is a large demand from passengers for buses to go to the QE or University, because that is what they want, they should be listened to.
Anyway, I agree with the proposal for the 31 service, as it would become another useful route for me to get home, alongside the 37, which is actually becoming quicker for me, rather than getting the X1/X2 in the evenings. So I have submitted my comments on this area of the consultation, as it is actually relevant to me. ;)
Fair points - I think those of us moaning about the south west proposals do live on and use those routes, and I too have submitted my comments, only on the 2 routes relevant to me
Harborne Road must be one of the few main roads into Birmingham that han't been updated or changed in the last 30 years. I grew up in Harborne and the road layout was exactly the same then as it is now, except the traffic is probably double what it was. What never seems to get mentioned is that the former Harborne Railway could be turned back into a railway or even into a tram track as this would benefit many despite the initial cost. Look at how much they spent on making the tram extend down Corporation Street, clearly it could be done if the money was there.
As for the suggestions, wouldn't it make more sense to just divert the current 29 from Quinton Road via Harborne Lane to the A38 bypass and then into the QE and then bring it back via the bus gate on Metchley Lane to take up the current route. This would save messing with other services too.
Well if the proposed changes follow the same route as the 99, then they are total hippocrites. That service was withdrawn due to poor reliability, so let's hope they are not planning on following the same path.
Furthermore where is the Halesowen-Harborne link going? With the 244 proposed for West Brom:
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 28, 2017, 10:07:17 PM
Well if the proposed changes follow the same route as the 99, then they are total hippocrites. That service was withdrawn due to poor reliability, so let's hope they are not planning on following the same path.
Furthermore where is the Halesowen-Harborne link going? With the 244 proposed for West Brom:
And more on that note, as the 241 is in the firing line as well, albeit in the Dudley Review, and no replacement for the 244 seems to be in place between Dudley and Halesowen, this seems to me like either NX are naïve enough to think that Dudley to Halesowen doesn't need any bus service, which it does, and telling people ''Oh you can get off at so and so, to swap to another bus to get to where you actually want'' is an acceptable enough way of dealing with all of this, or NX have completely lost the plot...
Alternatively, it may be NX's way of putting deckers on the route, and if so, it's a bloody stupid way, in my opinion...
I don't usually go off on one, but i think its warranted for once, and these are just my opinions, so rant over.
It says on the Website this is "phase 3". How many phases are there?
Quote from: Kevin on November 29, 2017, 10:21:36 AM
2144 at Selly Oak 10:20 doing a X64 to Weoley Castle
One of a string of 4 buses on 98/X64 in the space of 5 mins
It hasn't gotten any better either. Just seen an X64 followed in convoy by 2 98s. Further proof that the Vale isn't the answer.
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 29, 2017, 03:59:57 PM
It hasn't gotten any better either. Just seen an X64 followed in convoy by 2 98s. Further proof that the Vale isn't the answer.
What is the Vale, if you don't mind me asking? The only Vale I know is Castle Vale. I'm from the South East of the City which is why I'm unfamiliar with these terms.
Quote from: MW on November 29, 2017, 04:37:44 PM
What is the Vale, if you don't mind me asking? The only Vale I know is Castle Vale. I'm from the South East of the City which is why I'm unfamiliar with these terms.
The Vale is the student village along Edgbaston Park Road
If they're instant on combining the 29 and X64 as the consultation suggests, this is what I'd go with:
Route 25 - Northfield, Shenley Lane, Somerford Road, Weoley Castle Square, Beckbury Road, Kemberton Road, Alwold Road, Weoley Avenue, Weoley Park Road, Bristol Road (Selly Oak), Harborne Lane, Harborne Park Road, Harborne High St, Harborne Road, Five Ways, Broad Street, Birmingham City Centre.
This way the link to Five Ways, Broad St and Great Charles St is maintained whilst reconecting it with Selly Oak. As long as the 48 maintains a good enough frequency to the QE there'd be no need for the 25 to serve it.
Then you'd have the 23, 24 & 25 each possibly every 10 mins. Providing a 3 min frequency.
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 29, 2017, 05:06:13 PM
If they're instant on combining the 29 and X64 as the consultation suggests, this is what I'd go with:
Route 25 - Northfield, Shenley Lane, Somerford Road, Weoley Castle Square, Beckbury Road, Kemberton Road, Alwold Road, Weoley Avenue, Weoley Park Road, Bristol Road (Selly Oak), Harborne Lane, Harborne Park Road, Harborne High St, Harborne Road, Five Ways, Broad Street, Birmingham City Centre.
This way the link to Five Ways, Broad St and Great Charles St is maintained whilst reconecting it with Selly Oak. As long as the 48 maintains a good enough frequency to the QE there'd be no need for the 25 to serve it.
Then you'd have the 23, 24 & 25 each possibly every 10 mins. Providing a 3 min frequency.
What's replace serve Birmingham Uni instead of the X64 in your proposal?
22, like the NX proposal?
Quote from: 2206 on November 29, 2017, 05:12:03 PM
What's replace serve Birmingham Uni instead of the X64 in your proposal?
I don't think anything needs to replace that link. I've not seen anybody use that link from the Weoley Castle area. The revised 22 will serve it from Bartley Green anyway. Perhaps it could leave Bartley Green via Woodcock Lane instead, going straight down Barnes Hill to California, Quintion Road, QE and Uni.
Quote from: MasterPlan on November 29, 2017, 05:19:31 PM
I don't think anything needs to replace that link. I've not seen anybody use that link from the Weoley Castle area. The revised 22 will serve it from Bartley Green anyway. Perhaps it could leave Bartley Green via Woodcock Lane instead, going straight down Barnes Hill to California, Quintion Road, QE and Uni.
Yes it doesn't need to be replaced with a bus link with Weoley Castle.
One suggestion that has been missed out is to send the 11A/C through the QE hospital. This would allow many areas a direct link to the hospital and wouldn't add much time to the journey. When Harborne Lane was closed earlier in the year, I saw a lot of passengers being dropped off on the diversion route through the QE so I'm sure it would be popular - a bit like the late 1990s when the 11 was rerouted to directly serve City Hospital. Even if an extra bus was needed on both the A and C routes, a bus could be saved from YW by getting rid of the 84 as the 11 would serve most of its route and the 49 could cover most of the rest.
https://www.uhb.nhs.uk/Downloads/pdf/NationalExpressConsultation.pdf
Quote from: Sayeed on November 30, 2017, 11:50:02 AM
https://www.uhb.nhs.uk/Downloads/pdf/NationalExpressConsultation.pdf
X61 serving QE hospital and extended to Rubery Gt Park, Longbridge and Cofton?
Not a good idea, turn a simple direct route into a long and complicated one. Not to mention being held up at the QE hospital.
More buses are needed on X61 or 63 or both on evenings. Passenger numbers are very high between Selly Oak and City due to one of the largest Universitys in the country. In the days of the 61, 62 and 63 there was about a 7 minute gap between buses. Now its every 15 mins. Not fun on a dark cold winters night.
Quote from: Sayeed on November 30, 2017, 11:50:02 AM
https://www.uhb.nhs.uk/Downloads/pdf/NationalExpressConsultation.pdf
I asume it's a typo with the "New route 19" as I can't see how or why it'd terminate at the University.
Looks like all remaining links we have to Five Ways, Broad Street, Snow Hil etc will be gone then. Fantastic.
Seems strange timing for 38 new Platinum buses for the Harborne corridor when at least one of the 4 routes (22, 23 or 29) could be changing and requiring single deckers.
[/quote]
Some of the new Platinums can be used on the X70
Quote from: Kevin on November 27, 2017, 07:41:26 PM
Oh dear.
Any idea to send more buses through the QE is just stupid, especially "express" services
I'm sorry, the interchange there is not adequate, takes forever for buses to get through
The ammount of times Ive seen the 98 and X64 held up at the QE by inconsiderate parking, taxis etc. Kevin is right - DONT send an express route through there.
The X64 needs to loose the 'X' and 'Limited Stop', its ironic the X64 says 'Limited Stop' and the X61 does not.
I also don't see how making the 47 limited stop is going to work as the route will take a lot more time from the Turves Green area into Birmingham.
Quote from: sonic84 on November 30, 2017, 06:25:24 PM
I also don't see how making the 47 limited stop is going to work as the route will take a lot more time from the Turves Green area into Birmingham.
Making it limited stop? I don't see anything about making it limited stop. All I see, is that they're proposing:
A single frequent (every 6/7 minutes) 45 down the Pershore Road, with the 47 being rerouted to serve the QE and University.
Quote from: 2206 on November 30, 2017, 07:02:24 PM
Making it limited stop? I don't see anything about making it limited stop. All I see, is that they're proposing:
A single frequent (every 6/7 minutes) 45 down the Pershore Road, with the 47 being rerouted to serve the QE and University.
Page 19 under Cotteridge, Kings Norton and Hawkesley it says it will likely be limited stop from QE to city.
All very quiet on the South Birmingham consultation front. The revised consultation documents stated that the earliest any changes would happen would be the end of Feb 2018 but that clearly isn't going to be the case now.
The new Platinums for the Harborne corridor are still no nearer to being branded or having next stop announcements so I wonder if that's being held back pending confirmation of the outcomes of the review?
Lots of changes in April on the registration site
Quote from: monkeyjoe on February 21, 2018, 07:09:29 PM
Lots of changes in April on the registration site
It's just Easter holiday timetables, that's all.
This South Birmingham review seems to have disappeared up its own backside.
Quote from: Mike K on February 21, 2018, 10:21:48 PM
This South Birmingham review seems to have disappeared up its own backside.
For which we are eternally grateful!
Quote from: V89MOA on February 21, 2018, 11:15:11 PM
For which we are eternally grateful!
But I liked the 24 suggestion though =(
Quote from: Mike K on February 21, 2018, 10:21:48 PM
This South Birmingham review seems to have disappeared up its own backside.
So has the Dudley one to be fair and that waa consulted beforehand.
Don't worry, it will be back soon enough...
Quote from: Straightlines on February 22, 2018, 07:09:38 AM
Don't worry, it will be back soon enough...
That's what we're worried about!
Any news yet on the outcome of the consultation.
I am not trying to start a rumour but it would be interesting if the changes take place on 22nd July. The schools will have broken up and Solihull is due to go euro4. There would be plenty of transfers.
Had a leaflet through the post today from Conservative campaigners opposing the changes to the 24 that says a final decision will not made until July.
What changes to the 24 ?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 26, 2018, 08:05:06 PM
What changes to the 24 ?
The proposed change to the 24 was for it to go from Highfield Lane, up Simmons Drive and all the way down Quinton Road West to its junction with West Boulevard (the old Monarch pub) - then via reverse of outward route. This would be instead of the current large Simmons Drive / Quinton Road West loop.
I see isn't serving more of the area then?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 26, 2018, 09:14:09 PM
I see isn't serving more of the area then?
No - it would mean it missing out a number of the current stops along Simmons Drive, although it would mean shorter and more direct journeys for people living along the Quinton Road West section of the route.
Quote from: Mike K on April 26, 2018, 08:17:34 PM
The proposed change to the 24 was for it to go from Highfield Lane, up Simmons Drive and all the way down Quinton Road West to its junction with West Boulevard (the old Monarch pub) - then via reverse of outward route. This would be instead of the current large Simmons Drive / Quinton Road West loop.
Yes the large loop isn't normally a problem but can mean a fairly long walk early mornings or evenings where buses run out of service to or from the terminus meaning the full loop isn't served, or there is a long wait at the terminus as it takes up service back to Birmingham.
Either solution is going to inconvenience passengers.
The only solutions I can think of is if they did something similar to the 97 loop where the 24 rubs the full loop up to Four Dwellings, and then came back on itself and did the loop in the opposite direction.
Alternatively they could introduce a 24A and it have run via Highfield Lane and Simmons Drive in both directions, and the 24 runs via Quinton Road West in both directions with both terminating at The Monach.
PD0001111/638 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Queen Elizabeth Hospital to Hawkesley
Service number: 84 (84)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/41 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Birmingham to Frankley via Harborne, Northfield
Service number: 29 (29, 29S)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
Quote from: Winston on June 11, 2018, 06:53:38 PM
PD0001111/638 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Queen Elizabeth Hospital to Hawkesley
Service number: 84 (84)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/41 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Birmingham to Frankley via Harborne, Northfield
Service number: 29 (29, 29S)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
X22 as well.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520089/
Birmingham City Centre to Woodgate via Birmingham University.
Quote from: 2206 on June 11, 2018, 07:08:21 PM
X22 as well.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520089/
Birmingham City Centre to Woodgate via Birmingham University.
My guess is that the new X22 will run as 22 from Woodgate to Barnes Hill, then as 29 to Harborne Lane, the QE Hospital and University and the express via Aston boulevard to Bristol Road then as X61.
And a new X20 replacing service 98 ? (ref (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520088/))
Quote from: JPC on June 11, 2018, 07:53:32 PM
And a new X20 replacing service 98 ? (ref (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520088/))
Because that route number isn't going to cause confusion with a certain Johnsons route.
Given the X20, and the fact that they are shown as going via University, I would suspect they'll go via The Vale, Edgbaston Park Road, rather than Bristol Road, replacing the 98 and X64. Not sure how / where they'll be Limited Stop though - they won't be quick routes, that's for sure.
I fear that may be the end of the 22 too, with the 23 changed to a 10 min frequency.
Will the 47 get the chop?
Service 27 to run Maypole - Northfield - Harborne ? (ref (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520156/)) part replacing service 29?
X61 going?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520093/
Quote from: Dom on June 11, 2018, 08:01:37 PM
Because that route number isn't going to cause confusion with a certain Johnsons route.
You'd think tfwm would have measures in place to avoid this kind of issue.
Quote from: V89MOA on June 11, 2018, 08:30:00 PM
You'd think tfwm would have measures in place to avoid this kind of issue.
Oh didn't take you long!!
Come on chaps, the south west Birmingham bus network is being dismantled before our eyes - let's not argue about route numbers.
Quote from: JPC on June 11, 2018, 07:53:32 PM
And a new X20 replacing service 98 ? (ref (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520088/))
And a X21 replacing the X64.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520095/
Quote from: 2206 on June 11, 2018, 08:38:23 PM
And a X21 replacing the X64.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520095/
Good grief, Birmingham to Bangham Pit via Weoley Castle. I now have absolutely no idea what's going on (and what's with all the X numbers - buses rarely get out of second gear on this side of the city?).
Well, I called it...
Also why are they X numbers if they're not limited stop routes?
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 11, 2018, 09:21:00 PM
Well, I called it...
Also why are they X numbers if they're not limited stop routes?
The X20 and X22 are shown as limited stop, but the X21 normal stopping. All very confusing.
Quote from: Mike K on June 11, 2018, 09:25:36 PM
The X20 and X22 are shown as limited stop, but the X21 normal stopping. All very confusing.
Ah fair enough, I was viewing the X21 when I saw that. But yes, very confusing. The beginning of the end for the 20s I fear.
Another suggests the 23 will survive, going to Newman uni
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520090/
Strange terminus points with the X21 and 23 then. What's the point of terminating short of where they do now? Might as well carry on to Field Lane at that point.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on June 11, 2018, 10:45:44 PM
Another suggests the 23 will survive, going to Newman uni
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520090/
How do these registrations work? That one for example mentions both the 22 and 23 (I know they're on the same registration) so does that mean they're both continuing? The 63 registration, which I understood included the X61, no longer mentions the X61 but a 61 instead, suggesting the X61 will be withdrawn.
Probably wishful thinking on my part.
I'm glad things are finally getting moving. Little curious in regards to some things I'm reading.
Not too sure what all the 'X's' are. Can't see these as limited stops.
I am concerned about the number of services potentially going via the QE hospital. Frustrates me no end getting stuck around there.
So as it stands and from what I interpret there will be a X20/X21/X22 and then the 23?
I look forward to some official communication coming out and clarifying all these and finally seeing what the livery will be on the platinums (and what routes these will be on)
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on June 11, 2018, 11:59:03 PMI look forward to some official communication coming out and clarifying all these and finally seeing what the livery will be on the platinums (and what routes these will be on)
I'd imagine the platinums will just be for the 23 and 24 (Should that survive as I guess it will)
Quote from: Mike K on June 11, 2018, 11:26:57 PM
How do these registrations work? That one for example mentions both the 22 and 23 (I know they're on the same registration) so does that mean they're both continuing? The 63 registration, which I understood included the X61, no longer mentions the X61 but a 61 instead, suggesting the X61 will be withdrawn.
Probably wishful thinking on my part.
This regestration suggests there is going to be a 1A as well - going to the QE and University as was proposed in the consultation, I expect.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520113/
It also show the finish point will be Acocks Green. So it looks like the Gospel Oak extension may be being withdrawn.
Quote from: Dom on June 11, 2018, 08:25:05 PM
X61 going?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520093/
Replace the 61 with a limited stop route, put brand new buses on with better leg room, wifi, stop announcements - then strip it back to older buses and stopping at every stop. I'm sure the X61 regulars will love that.
Quote from: B.C Driver on June 12, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Replace the 61 with a limited stop route, put brand new buses on with better leg room, wifi, stop announcements - then strip it back to older buses and stopping at every stop. I'm sure the X61 regulars will love that.
It will be similar as regards losing the branded buses / frequency reduction for the current 126 passengers between B'ham - Dudley (new route 15) if those proposals go ahead.
Where are the X61's Platinum's likely to be heading?
I wonder what affect this will have on the Peak Vehicle Requirements for the relevant Garages??
Am I right in assuming these changes will come in July? If so, when should we hear some info from NXWM?
Looks like the 48 is being replaced too.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520064/
Quote from: B.C Driver on June 12, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Replace the 61 with a limited stop route, put brand new buses on with better leg room, wifi, stop announcements - then strip it back to older buses and stopping at every stop. I'm sure the X61 regulars will love that.
Quite a lot of drivers on your rota have been saying that!
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on June 12, 2018, 11:31:43 AM
Am I right in assuming these changes will come in July? If so, when should we hear some info from NXWM?
July 22nd.
Quote from: uniquicity on June 12, 2018, 11:45:29 AM
Looks like the 48 is being replaced too.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/520064/
The more recent variation number, variation number 25, shows variation though, suggesting its not being withdrawn and the route/timetable is being modified slightly?
Other variations as part of this review (can't tell what they relate to) include the 2, 3, 18, 24, 45/47 and 49.
Quote from: Mike K on June 12, 2018, 02:22:28 PM
Other variations as part of this review (can't tell what they relate to) include the 2, 3, 18, 24, 45/47 and 49.
The Acocks Green 885 is being withdrawn as well.
PD0001111/759 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: King Edwards High School (Edgbaston) to Solihull
Service number: 885 (885)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 11, 2018, 10:49:23 PM
Strange terminus points with the X21 and 23 then. What's the point of terminating short of where they do now? Might as well carry on to Field Lane at that point.
I wonder whether the 23 might extend from its current terminus via the current 22 through Kitwell, past KE Five Ways school then via Field Lane to Newman University? That way the only part of the current 22 that it wouldn't cover would be Jiggins Lane, which will presumably be served by the new less frequent X22.
I'd imagine that the frequency of the 23 will be increased, although I'd be surprised if either the 23 or 24 would be more than every 10 mins each, which, with both the 22 and 29 going, would mean a 33% reduction in number of buses per hour on the Harborne to City corridor. Maybe there could be additional short workings between city and Harborne, or possibly California which will also see fewer buses once the 22 and 29 go.
All pure speculation of course, could be talking a load of b***ocks.
Does anyone know the exact routes that the X20 X21 X22 will take?
I think California way would be a good terminus for some short workings- I also wish they would go straight down rather than the little divert past what used to be the storehouse pub....
Also, anyone got any speculation of to what the branding will be??? Colours etc....
Quote from: BigDaddyCool link=topic=4856.msg237008#msg237008 is the date=1528915718
I think California way would be a good terminus for some short workings- I also wish they would go straight down rather than the little divert past what used to be the storehouse pub....
I've thought that before but to be honest it actually helps when there's traffic along the Northfield Road lol.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on June 13, 2018, 07:49:40 PM
Also, anyone got any speculation of to what the branding will be??? Colours etc....
Green, i'd imagine! 😂
Quote from: B.C Driver on June 13, 2018, 07:28:08 PM
Does anyone know the exact routes that the X20 X21 X22 will take?
Remains to be seen but looking back at the original proposal document and the map that went with it, it had at least 3 routes between the QE and city, all of them showing as going via the current 98/X64 routes into town. These included a replacement for the 98 (looks like that will be the X20), the 22 (X22), and a new 21 (which looks like it will be the X21 but seems quite different to the route in the proposal document). It also said that the plan was to have a more frequent service along this route.
The document also proposed that the frequency of the 24 would increase, so maybe the 23/24 will each run every 7/8 minutes, meaning a drop in frequency of only 2 buses an hour between Harborne and city. Fingers crossed.
National Express West Midlands have replied on their Facebook visitors section to someones enquiry that the South Birmingham changes will not be published until early July ........ yet the 10A new Lichfield extension is published now for the same start date, why ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 14, 2018, 06:42:13 AM
National Express West Midlands have replied on their Facebook visitors section to someones enquiry that the South Birmingham changes will not be published until early July ........ yet the 10A new Lichfield extension is published now for the same start date, why ?
Sounds fairly standard for all the previous network reviews... Which is pretty unfair to passengers given the amount of change it incorporates
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 14, 2018, 06:42:13 AM
National Express West Midlands have replied on their Facebook visitors section to someones enquiry that the South Birmingham changes will not be published until early July ........ yet the 10A new Lichfield extension is published now for the same start date, why ?
Gives less time for the negativity on Social Media I suppose!
I wonder how many passengers have actually asked for these 'improvements'
Quote from: Straightlines on June 14, 2018, 07:51:41 AMI wonder how many passengers have actually asked for these 'improvements'
Well that's just it. I'd love to see evidence of people asking for this...
PD0001111/495 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Solihull to Northfield via Maypole
Service number: 49 (49, 49S)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/534 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Maypole, Maypole Lane to Harborne, Metchley Lane via Kings Heath, Bournville, Northfield
Service number: 27 (27)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/46 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Yardley Wood Garage to Bartley Green, Romsley Road via Cotteridge and Northfield
Service number: 18 (18)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/28 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Five Ways to Acocks Green Village via Moseley
Service number: 1 (1, 1A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/39 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Birmingham to Woodcock Hill via Weoley Castle
Service number: X64 (X21)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/112 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Birmingham to Frankley via Selly Oak, Northfield
Service number: 63 (63, 61)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/123 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Birmingham to Longbridge via Cotteridge
Service number: 45 (45, 47, 47S)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/27 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Birmingham to Woodgate Valley North via Harborne
Service number: 24 (24)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/24 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Birmingham to Newman University via Harborne
Service number: 22 (23)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/772 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Birmingham to Woodgate via University
Service number: X22 (X22)
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
PD0001111/106 Registered
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
Route: Birmingham to Rednal via University and Northfield
Service number: 98 (X20)
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 22 Jul 2018
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 14, 2018, 10:50:51 AM
Well that's just it. I'd love to see evidence of people asking for this...
It's not just about passengers asking for change. It's NXWM hopefully improving their services by having an easier to understand network and possibly a more reliable service.
X20, X21, X22, 22, 23 and 24 make more sense than the out of sequence 98 and X64.
What I do agree with though is once details are finalised then the maximum amount of time should be given to passengers ahead of the changes. Quite often it's the lack of information that's more confusing than a new route number or slight route change.
Quote from: Gareth on June 14, 2018, 03:22:37 PM
It's not just about passengers asking for change. It's NXWM hopefully improving their services by having an easier to understand network and possibly a more reliable service.
X20, X21, X22, 22, 23 and 24 make more sense than the out of sequence 98 and X64.
I wasn't talking about numbering. I highly doubt people will be fussed about that.
If you think that sending more services via the Uni will make things better then I'm afraid you'll be in for a bit of disappointment...
As for simplifying things, any chance of these X routes sharing a terminus with the 23 and 24?
I'd suspect the newest Platinum buses will get branding of some description once the new look network has bedded in.
I hate routes that go via the QE - traffic is awful. I really wish something could be done regards to rerouting....
Trying to work out which services will now (potentially) serve Weoley Castle??? Can anyone assist?
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on June 14, 2018, 05:37:21 PM
I hate routes that go via the QE - traffic is awful. I really wish something could be done regards to rerouting....
Trying to work out which services will now (potentially) serve Weoley Castle??? Can anyone assist?
Links to the QE are needed though. The loadings prove that.
By the looks of it an irregular X21 which won't be limited stop. Maybe the 27 also, that'll only go as far as Metchley Lane for some reason.
But that's it. Chunks of the 29 route won't be covered.
With the 49 and 76 still running into Solihull, what will YW use for these routes as the euro4 requirement comes in on that date? AG will have the same problem on the 72 and 73.
Quote from: Eric Shaw on June 14, 2018, 07:30:31 PM
With the 49 and 76 still running into Solihull, what will YW use for these routes as the euro4 requirement comes in on that date? AG will have the same problem on the 72 and 73.
The trapped Tridents? 4382-4394 and 4565-77, wonder if there will be enough for the 49 and 76 as well as the 2/3/6 as well as the 35 which are the second type if there's no spare E400's.
Diamond will have to use minimum Euro 4 Solo's on the 30, currently a mix of Euro 3/Euro 4 Solo's alongside Euro 5 20884, Solo SR.
Quote from: Jack on June 14, 2018, 07:44:22 PM
The trapped Tridents? 4382-4394 and 4565-77, wonder if there will be enough for the 49 and 76 as well as the 2/3/6 as well as the 35 which are the second type if there's no spare E400's.
Diamond will have to use minimum Euro 4 Solo's on the 30, currently a mix of Euro 3/Euro 4 Solo's alongside Euro 5 20884, Solo SR.
Could be some spare compliant buses going at BC by July 22nd... ;)
It would add to the PVR and congestion would be an issue but it would've been better to extend the 27 onto Five Ways surely? More connections and links?
YW duecto swap a number of 43xx Tridents with PL 45xx ones that will be fitted with traps.
Quote from: John Stait on June 15, 2018, 05:46:58 PM
YW duecto swap a number of 43xx Tridents with PL 45xx ones that will be fitted with traps.
4578-84 would be most likely to keep the Voith 45** together. Unless more 43** BV52's get trapped.
By the sound of it there will be more buses on the Bristol Rd which will be a good thing.
Quote from: B.C Driver on June 16, 2018, 12:29:55 PM
By the sound of it there will be more buses on the Bristol Rd which will be a good thing.
What other routes apart from the 61 and 63?
Or is it just the PVR going up from the X61 to the 61?
Quote from: B.C Driver on June 16, 2018, 12:29:55 PM
By the sound of it there will be more buses on the Bristol Rd which will be a good thing.
I wonder if the 61 and 63 will revert back to what it was before the X61 was intruduced which was every 10 mins each, if it is then the PVR will be nearly the same.
It looks like the branded Hybrid buses for the 63 was a waste of time, there won't be enough Hybrids for both routes so there will have to be a rethink.
Dont quote me on it but heard the 61 and 63 will be 8 mins each.
I would expect one of the X20, X21 or X22 to serve part of Bristol Rd too probably between Selly Oak and City.
Remember we had 61, 62 and 63. Then the 62 was axed and became X62 which was then axed and changed to 98 we had X64 between City and Selly Oak which now follows 98 route, then the 61 and 63 were left to soldier on, then the 61 became limited stop using a different route through Selly Oak. The Bristol Rd is a very busy route particually around the university, it cant continue as it is now.
Quote from: B.C Driver on June 16, 2018, 03:08:23 PM
Dont quote me on it but heard the 61 and 63 will be 8 mins each.
I would expect one of the X20, X21 or X22 to serve part of Bristol Rd too probably between Selly Oak and City.
Remember we had 61, 62 and 63. Then the 62 was axed and became X62 which was then axed and changed to 98 we had X64 between City and Selly Oak which now follows 98 route, then the 61 and 63 were left to soldier on, then the 61 became limited stop using a different route through Selly Oak. The Bristol Rd is a very busy route particually around the university, it cant continue as it is now.
Presumeably there wouldn't be enough Platinum's spare to increase the frequency of the X61 hence why it's reverting to the 61. With former X61 Platinum's being required elsewhere
In the Dudley review, it was mentioned some routes being made Platinum but no additional vehicles will be purchased (Unless I misread a post). Would the ex X61 vehicles be sent there ?
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on June 16, 2018, 03:30:56 PM
In the Dudley review, it was mentioned some routes being made Platinum but no additional vehicles will be purchased (Unless I misread a post). Would the ex X61 vehicles be sent there ?
Doubt it, the new X7 & X8 will be Platinum but the current Dudley - Birmingham 126 section (new 15) will be downgraded to standard buses
Quote from: Winston on June 16, 2018, 03:15:59 PM
Presumeably there wouldn't be enough Platinum's spare to increase the frequency of the X61 hence why it's reverting to the 61. With former X61 Platinum's being required elsewhere
No idea what the PVRs of these new and amended routes might be but I wonder if, with the current X61 branded Platinums and the 67 plate Harborne corridor ones, there will be enough (approx 44-45) for the 23/24 and X20/X21/X22 to be Platinum routes?
Quote from: B.C Driver on June 16, 2018, 03:08:23 PM
Dont quote me on it but heard the 61 and 63 will be 8 mins each.
I would expect one of the X20, X21 or X22 to serve part of Bristol Rd too probably between Selly Oak and City.
Remember we had 61, 62 and 63. Then the 62 was axed and became X62 which was then axed and changed to 98 we had X64 between City and Selly Oak which now follows 98 route, then the 61 and 63 were left to soldier on, then the 61 became limited stop using a different route through Selly Oak. The Bristol Rd is a very busy route particually around the university, it cant continue as it is now.
If any of them go via the Bristol Road between Selly Oak and the City Centre, i'd expect that it'd be the X21
(X64 replacement), as the registrations for the X20 and X22 both show via University on the registration
suggesting the'll go via Edgbaston Park Road.
The X21 is the only one that doesn't show that and shows via Weoley Castle.
Quote from: Mike K on June 11, 2018, 08:01:45 PM
Given the X20, and the fact that they are shown as going via University, I would suspect they'll go via The Vale, Edgbaston Park Road, rather than Bristol Road, replacing the 98 and X64. Not sure how / where they'll be Limited Stop though - they won't be quick routes, that's for sure.
I fear that may be the end of the 22 too, with the 23 changed to a 10 min frequency.
Quote from: 2206 on June 16, 2018, 03:52:00 PM
If any of them go via the Bristol Road between Selly Oak and the City Centre, i'd expect that it'd be the X21
(X64 replacement), as the registrations for the X20 and X22 both show via University on the registration
suggesting the'll go via Edgbaston Park Road.
The X21 is the only one that doesn't show that and shows via Weoley Castle.
I really hope not. I was relieved when the X64 was taken away from the traffic-plagued Bristol Road. It also doesn't say these routes will serve the QE but you'd imagine at least one of them will! No services between QE and City is ludicrous, as is none between Weoley Castle and Bartley Green and QE.
Additionally the build up of traffic around the Aston Webb Boulevard new road is terrible. To the point that I wonder if sending them up Harborne Lane would be quicker. Maybe when the construction is finished in Selly Oak things will be better (better traffic flow was promised) but who knows.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 16, 2018, 04:43:26 PM
I really hope not. I was relieved when the X64 was taken away from the traffic-plagued Bristol Road. It also doesn't say these routes will serve the QE but you'd imagine at least one of them will! No services between QE and City is ludicrous, as is none between Weoley Castle and Bartley Green and QE.
Additionally the build up of traffic around the Aston Webb Boulevard new road is terrible. To the point that I wonder if sending them up Harborne Lane would be quicker. Maybe when the construction is finished in Selly Oak things will be better (better traffic flow was promised) but who knows.
Where the 48 used to use Harborne Lane rather than the Selly Oak bypass, if both a 48 and 98 left the QE at the same time the 48 would often be quicker getting to the roundabout at the top of Harborne Lane. The traffic at peak time is horrific around there!
Quote from: sonic84 on June 16, 2018, 06:33:49 PM
Where the 48 used to use Harborne Lane rather than the Selly Oak bypass, if both a 48 and 98 left the QE at the same time the 48 would often be quicker getting to the roundabout at the top of Harborne Lane. The traffic at peak time is horrific around there!
Yes, exactly. There's nothing express about it. I do wonder whether any routes will be made to go through the Life Sciences Park and Retail Unit when it's built, it said on the website initially that there would be.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 16, 2018, 06:33:49 PM
Where the 48 used to use Harborne Lane rather than the Selly Oak bypass, if both a 48 and 98 left the QE at the same time the 48 would often be quicker getting to the roundabout at the top of Harborne Lane. The traffic at peak time is horrific around there!
Wasn't that traffic also the reason given for rerouting the 76 away from Selly Oak a few months back? It's probably been a big contributing factor to the X61 failing.
Not read it all but are we saying that current 63 and x61 is failing with over crowding etc ?
Has the x61 failed?
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on June 16, 2018, 07:42:55 PM
Has the x61 failed?
It hasn't lasted long so read into that what you will.
Having two routes with different and unmatched frequencies, different city terminus points, one limited stop and the other not, and the X61 missing out much of the busy Selly Oak section, it's perhaps not that surprising that they're changing things.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on June 16, 2018, 07:42:55 PM
Has the x61 failed?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 16, 2018, 06:52:44 PM
Not read it all but are we saying that current 63 and x61 is failing with over crowding etc ?
From a personal observational view, I'm not sure it helps having the X61 and 63 serve different terminus stops in the city centre.
The X61 may be a limited stop service, but it does share many stops with the 63 service. If I'm in town and looking to get home, from Moor Street Queensway, if I've just missed an X1 or X2, if there's a 60 right behind, I'll just get on that instead of waiting the extra 10 minutes for the 'faster' bus, as they call at the same stop.
Likewise, if I've just missed an X61 and want to get to Priory Road (for example), if a 63 rolls up just behind, I'd be inclined to just get that.
I can appreciate the logistical reasons for having seperate terminus stops, its just not useful for passengers I feel.
Quote from: Stu on June 16, 2018, 08:08:02 PM
From a personal observational view, I'm not sure it helps having the X61 and 63 serve different terminus stops in the city centre.
The X61 may be a limited stop service, but it does share many stops with the 63 service. If I'm in town and looking to get home, from Moor Street Queensway, if I've just missed an X1 or X2, if there's a 60 right behind, I'll just get on that instead of waiting the extra 10 minutes for the 'faster' bus, as they call at the same stop.
Likewise, if I've just missed an X61 and want to get to Priory Road (for example), if a 63 rolls up just behind, I'd be inclined to just get that.
I can appreciate the logistical reasons for having seperate terminus stops, its just not useful for passengers I feel.
They both stop at MS15, which is just across the road from the 63 terminus at Carrs Lane.
As well as NS3 (which is usually rather busy whenever i've seen it) and NS9.
According to a post on Rail Forum UK, the Acocks Green 1 will have a frequency increase to every 10 minutes between Edgbaston Old Church and Acocks Green.
"1 - Five Ways to Gospel Oak
Changes: New service 1A introduced, operating from QE Hospital to Acocks Green, Via Edgbaston Cricket Ground and Moseley. Between Edgbaston and Acocks Green, buses will operate every 10 minutes."
Quote from: Mike K on June 16, 2018, 08:04:08 PM
It hasn't lasted long so read into that what you will.
Having two routes with different and unmatched frequencies, different city terminus points, one limited stop and the other not, and the X61 missing out much of the busy Selly Oak section, it's perhaps not that surprising that they're changing things.
Whenever I'm driving a 144 in Birmingham the X61 and 98s I see are always busy. I am very surprised they are fiddling with the 98 as I think that is one new route that has proved itself successful. I hope they maintain the Rednal to Rubery link.
Why they didn't develop the land around the Selly Oak bypass at the same time it was built I have no clue as by now the old Sainsbury's could have been knocked down and a much better road junction be in its place that would have eased traffic. Seems like shocking planning to me, particularly as the new Sainsbury's was in the planning stage as long ago as 2005.
There was a rumour that went round Worcester garage that the 144 was to be diverted via the QE but I think the traffic problems put paid to that idea. A lot of passengers get off our buses to catch a QE bound bus at Oak tree Lane so it may have been popular too.
Quote from: 2206 on June 16, 2018, 08:11:39 PM
They both stop at MS15, which is just across the road from the 63 terminus at Carrs Lane.
In principle that's true but part of the problem is people have to walk far enough as it is now in town and Moor St is right on the edge. Just that extra walk and crossing on the off chance the X61 may be due, especially to those with shopping or people who've changed buses already is too much and 9 times out of 10 a 63 will be sat there waiting so they'll just jump on. People nowadays like and expect convenience. It's a shame the X61 wasn't given a trial terminating on Priory Queensway at the X64 stop. It'll certainly be very interesting to see what city centre route the new X2* routes take.
Quote from: V89MOA on June 16, 2018, 10:23:19 PM
In principle that's true but part of the problem is people have to walk far enough as it is now in town and Moor St is right on the edge. Just that extra walk and crossing on the off chance the X61 may be due, especially to those with shopping or people who've changed buses already is too much and 9 times out of 10 a 63 will be sat there waiting so they'll just jump on. People nowadays like and expect convenience. It's a shame the X61 wasn't given a trial terminating on Priory Queensway at the X64 stop. It'll certainly be very interesting to see what city centre route the new X2* routes take.
I have a feeling the 61 will share the Carrs Lane stop again with the 63, the X61's current terminus is rather pointless. I hope the new X2* services follow the City Centre loop as per the current routes do rather than being shunted at Colmore Row. Off topic I know but will the 126 go back to Markets or is Colmore Row permanent?
Another thing I'm suprised hasn't been mentioned was the 31 following the 37 from City to Acocks Green, too boost up time and not be in stuck in the tailback section of Stratford Road.
Quote from: 2206 on June 16, 2018, 08:40:31 PM
According to a post on Rail Forum UK, the Acocks Green 1 will have a frequency increase to every 10 minutes between Edgbaston Old Church and Acocks Green.
"1 - Five Ways to Gospel Oak
Changes: New service 1A introduced, operating from QE Hospital to Acocks Green, Via Edgbaston Cricket Ground and Moseley. Between Edgbaston and Acocks Green, buses will operate every 10 minutes."
Isn't it every 10 minutes now? Or it was when I was driving at AG. It was every 10 minutes between Five Ways & Acocks Green with every other bus extended to Shirley and then later to Gospel Oak. In fact, isn't the bit between Edgbaston and Five Ways now being dropped from 10 mins to 20 mins?
Quote from: Jack on June 16, 2018, 10:36:34 PM
I have a feeling the 61 will share the Carrs Lane stop again with the 63.
Incorrect.
Quote from: 2206 on June 16, 2018, 08:40:31 PM
According to a post on Rail Forum UK, the Acocks Green 1 will have a frequency increase to every 10 minutes between Edgbaston Old Church and Acocks Green.
"1 - Five Ways to Gospel Oak
Changes: New service 1A introduced, operating from QE Hospital to Acocks Green, Via Edgbaston Cricket Ground and Moseley. Between Edgbaston and Acocks Green, buses will operate every 10 minutes."
I can't help but wonder how this will affect the Sunday timetable, will it stay as it is now? Or will there be a 1 & 1A per hour, or perhaps every 20 mins with two 1s per hour and a 1A per hour.
Quote from: MW on June 16, 2018, 11:53:16 PM
Isn't it every 10 minutes now? Or it was when I was driving at AG. It was every 10 minutes between Five Ways & Acocks Green with every other bus extended to Shirley and then later to Gospel Oak. In fact, isn't the bit between Edgbaston and Five Ways now being dropped from 10 mins to 20 mins?
It's every 20 mins off peak
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 17, 2018, 12:55:23 AM
I can't help but wonder how this will affect the Sunday timetable, will it stay as it is now? Or will there be a 1 & 1A per hour, or perhaps every 20 mins with two 1s per hour and a 1A per hour.
It's every 20 mins off peak
Oh right, I was referring to its 10 min peak frequency but he must be saying it's going to become every 10 mins during the day. I can't see that lasting long then. The 1 is dead during the day, in it's current guise anyway.
The X61 was every 15 mins which is ok at quiet times but not during peak hours. This should have been improved.
The X61 and 63 will take a slightly different route in City both not terminating where they do now.
No idea where he gets his info from or if it's correct but the post on the rail forum says:
"New services replacing 22, 29, 98 and X64. X20 and X21 will operate along Bristol Road and Aston Webb Boulevard to the QE Hospital, while X22 will use Bath Row, Five Ways, Edgbaston Park Road and The Vale. Beyond the QE Hospital, X20 will operate along the current 98 route, terminating in Cofton Hackett, rather than continuing onwards to Great Park. X21 will operate to The Woodcock, with X22 operating along Bristol Road, then via the current X64 route to Bartley Green, Kitwell and Woodgate."
However, the consultation inferred that there might be more buses between city and QE via The Vale, not less, and I'd be surprised if the X22 was any more than every 20 mins. Also the plan was that the 22 (X22) would run via Quinton Road to the QE, so I can't see the info above being correct. The same post also says that the 48 will run from the QE through Bournville and Cotteridge to Hawkesley, then via the 27 route to Northfield.
My expectations are:
X20 and X21 every 30 minutes each, X22 every 15 minutes (combining every 7-8 mins City to University)
23 and 24 every 8 minutes each (combining every 4 mins City to Harborne)
61 and 63 every 10 minutes each (combining every 5 mins City to Bristol Road)
lets see what happens !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 17, 2018, 11:12:20 AM
My expectations are:
X20 and X21 every 30 minutes each, X22 every 15 minutes (combining every 7-8 mins City to University)
23 and 24 every 8 minutes each (combining every 4 mins City to Harborne)
61 and 63 every 10 minutes each (combining every 5 mins City to Bristol Road)
lets see what happens !
I bloody well hope not. Going from a bus every 7/8 mins from Weoley Castle to City (X64 and 29) to every 30 mins?!
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 17, 2018, 11:18:13 AM
I bloody well hope not. Going from a bus every 7/8 mins from Weoley Castle to City (X64 and 29) to every 30 mins?!
I hope not either, but how else are they going to do it ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 17, 2018, 11:27:27 AM
I hope not either, but how else are they going to do it ?
Why would the X22 be every 15 and the others every 30? I'd have thought they'd all be the same. E.g. every 20 mins and you'd still have your every 7 mins frequency.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 17, 2018, 11:32:19 AM
Why would the X22 be every 15 and the others every 20? I'd have thought they'd all be the same. E.g. every 20 mins and you'd still have your every 7 mins frequency.
I'd be surprised if the X21 were to be the only city to Weoley Castle link, but unless there's something else out there that we're not yet aware of, the only other routes that could feasibly serve Weoley would be the X20 or X22. Guess we'll just have to see what delights await.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 17, 2018, 11:18:13 AM
I bloody well hope not. Going from a bus every 7/8 mins from Weoley Castle to City (X64 and 29) to every 30 mins?!
How does that work? The X64 is every 20 mins
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 17, 2018, 12:08:41 PM
How does that work? The X64 is every 20 mins
Yeah and the 29 is every 15 mins...
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 17, 2018, 12:15:06 PM
Yeah and the 29 is every 15 mins...
A 20 minute service and 15 minute service, a 7/8 minute combined frequency does not make
It looks like the 2 is going via 3 route Trittiford Road (info from B31 Voices), if so does that mean that the 5 will be re-routed via Showell Green Lane as proposed
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 17, 2018, 04:37:24 PM
It looks like the 2 is going via 3 route Trittiford Road (info from B31 Voices), if so does that mean that the 5 will be re-routed via Showell Green Lane as proposed
I'm surprised nobody at NX has confirmed a summary of changes now the registrations are 'public' - would stop all this speculation!
Quote from: metrocity on June 17, 2018, 05:38:08 PM
I'm surprised nobody at NX has confirmed a summary of changes now the registrations are 'public' - would stop all this speculation!
A lot of people have been asking NX on their Facebook page but so far all responses have said they are unable to confirm any changes and they will be announced in a couple of weeks.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 17, 2018, 05:43:53 PM
A lot of people have been asking NX on their Facebook page but so far all responses have said they are unable to confirm any changes and they will be announced in a couple of weeks.
The sad thing is that it will be the drivers who get the abuse from passengers as a result of this short notice and the current Chinese Whispers on the local Facebook news pages isn't helping...
Quote from: metrocity on June 17, 2018, 05:38:08 PM
I'm surprised nobody at NX has confirmed a summary of changes now the registrations are 'public' - would stop all this speculation!
NX were quick enough to publise the extension of the 10A to Lichfield effective from the same date, but don't seem so keen to publish full details of these changes, could it be that they may not be popular?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 17, 2018, 04:37:24 PM
It looks like the 2 is going via 3 route Trittiford Road (info from B31 Voices), if so does that mean that the 5 will be re-routed via Showell Green Lane as proposed
I believe the plan is that the 2 will follow the 3 route (i.e. Stoney Lane) to/from City and the 5 will be taken out of Springfield Road and routed via Wake Green Road, Yardley Wood Road and Showell Green Lane.
So the 6 will be the only Stratford Road route operating south of Showell Green Lane with the re-routing of the 5 and 31. A potential loss of 6bph from Springfield Road to/from City. I'm also lead to believe that ALL Stratford Road services (2, 3, 5, 6, 31 and 37) will depart from Carrs Lane, with a rumouref future renumbering of the 31 to 4.
Quote from: Winston on June 17, 2018, 06:45:44 PM
NX were quick enough to publise the extension of the 10A to Lichfield effective from the same date, but don't seem so keen to publish full details of these changes, could it be that they may not be popular?
It certainly seems that way. Nx are by no margin a perfect company
Quote from: Winston on June 17, 2018, 06:45:44 PM
NX were quick enough to publise the extension of the 10A to Lichfield effective from the same date, but don't seem so keen to publish full details of these changes, could it be that they may not be popular?
Or perhaps, things aren't 100% finished yet. So they're waiting until everything is finished. At the end of the day, the services are registered so whether or not the public like them isn't going to make a difference now, the chance to argue and contest it has gone.
Quote from: John Stait on June 17, 2018, 06:52:34 PM
I believe the plan is that the 2 will follow the 3 route (i.e. Stoney Lane) to/from City and the 5 will be taken out of Springfield Road and routed via Wake Green Road, Yardley Wood Road and Showell Green Lane.
So the 6 will be the only Stratford Road route operating south of Showell Green Lane with the re-routing of the 5 and 31. A potential loss of 6bph from Springfield Road to/from City. I'm also lead to believe that ALL Stratford Road services (2, 3, 5, 6, 31 and 37) will depart from Carrs Lane, with a rumouref future renumbering of the 31 to 4.
5 will have to serve Court Road to get to Showell Green Lane then outbound.
As has been said the 63 will no longer use Carrs Lane, would it mean the 37 will go back to its original Stop on Carrs Lane with the 6 stopping at it too? This would be better as the current 6/37 Stop is a nightmare when there's 3 max buses at the stop, means buses start queuing down Carrs Lane.
Does the 31 seriously need to be pointlessly renumbered?
Quote from: Dom on June 17, 2018, 06:56:18 PM
Or perhaps, things aren't 100% finished yet. So they're waiting until everything is finished. At the end of the day, the services are registered so whether or not the public like them isn't going to make a difference now, the chance to argue and contest it has gone.
If they're registered, they're finished. The latest changes are different again to the previous proposals consulted on last year. They need to give passengers plenty of notice.
Quote from: Winston on June 17, 2018, 06:45:44 PM
NX were quick enough to publise the extension of the 10A to Lichfield effective from the same date, but don't seem so keen to publish full details of these changes, could it be that they may not be popular?
The notice about the 10A says "we're really excited to announce our new service to Lichfield...".
"We're delighted to announce that Weoley Castle will be losing its link to Five Ways, Broad St and Brindley Place" might not go down quite so well. :o
Quote from: Winston on June 17, 2018, 07:04:13 PM
If they're registered, they're finished. The latest changes are different again to the previous proposals consulted on last year. They need to give passengers plenty of notice.
I've still not seen anything published about rerouting the 5 to serve Yardley Wood station but the flags on Robin Hood lane (by the bridge) have been changed to 'Not In Use' and the stops all down Highfield Road have shown both 5 & 76 for at least a month now... the map on the NXWM website shows the old line of route but Network West Midlands has the 5 down as serving the station... I wonder who's cock up that is?
If the 1/1A is being increased to every 10 mins during the day, it does imply that the 31 will be using Warwick Road instead of Stratford Road I suppose.
I just hope the 31 remains untampered. It's been the same route for years. (City to Fox Hollies section anyway)
It's definitely a good idea to remove Springfield Road from the 5 route. It can be very tight negotiating around the stupidly parked cars, and if you're running 4-5 mins late, and the bus coming the other way is on time, you will meet on Springfield Road and potentially get stuck.
I'm sure the new proposed 5 route has some very low hanging trees/branches on Wake Green Road though. (Section in between College Road & Springfield Road).
Quote from: MW on June 17, 2018, 07:22:52 PM
If the 1/1A is being increased to every 10 mins during the day, it does imply that the 31 will be using Warwick Road instead of Stratford Road I suppose.
I just hope the 31 remains untampered. It's been the same route for years. (City to Fox Hollies section anyway)
It's definitely a good idea to remove Springfield Road from the 5 route. It can be very tight negotiating around the stupidly parked cars, and if you're running 4-5 mins late, and the bus coming the other way is on time, you will meet on Springfield Road and potentially get stuck.
I'm sure the new proposed 5 route has some very low hanging trees/branches on Wake Green Road though. (Section in between College Road & Springfield Road).
At the moment, there are no registation changes to the 31, suggesting it won't be changing, at the moment?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/510408/
Quote from: John Stait on June 17, 2018, 06:52:34 PM
I believe the plan is that the 2 will follow the 3 route (i.e. Stoney Lane) to/from City and the 5 will be taken out of Springfield Road and routed via Wake Green Road, Yardley Wood Road and Showell Green Lane.
So the 6 will be the only Stratford Road route operating south of Showell Green Lane with the re-routing of the 5 and 31. A potential loss of 6bph from Springfield Road to/from City. I'm also lead to believe that ALL Stratford Road services (2, 3, 5, 6, 31 and 37) will depart from Carrs Lane, with a rumouref future renumbering of the 31 to 4.
If they are rerouting the 31, how would they potentially reroute it, would it use Showell Green Lane with the 5, or
Warwick Road with the 37?
Quote from: MW on June 17, 2018, 07:22:52 PM
I just hope the 31 remains untampered. It's been the same route for years. (City to Fox Hollies section anyway)
It's definitely a good idea to remove Springfield Road from the 5 route. It can be very tight negotiating around the stupidly parked cars, and if you're running 4-5 mins late, and the bus coming the other way is on time, you will meet on Springfield Road and potentially get stuck.
I'm sure the new proposed 5 route has some very low hanging trees/branches on Wake Green Road though. (Section in between College Road & Springfield Road).
The only change I'd make to the 31 is to not use Pitmaston Road and instead use Redstone Farm Road. Pitmaston is so tight, even worse when the school kids are coming out of the school, the buses get stuck. I do hope the 31 stays the same from City to Acocks Green.
I agree with the 5 no longer using Springfield Road, can be tight at times with cars parked everywhere. But in a way I disagree with the 2 using Stoney Lane. The 3 can be get snarled up trying to do the right turn onto Highgate Road in both directions, but would mean the 2 doesn't get stuck in Stratford Road traffic.
People are still moaning about the 37 no longer serving Olton Station (been 2 years now). Waste of time going down there, nobody really used the stops. The two 'replacement' pole stops on Warwick Road could do with shelters, these stops do tend to get a number of people waiting at them. Funnily enough the people who moan are the elderly who don't want to do a short walk.
Quote from: Jack on June 17, 2018, 07:51:54 PM
The only change I'd make to the 31 is to not use Pitmaston Road and instead use Redstone Farm Road. Pitmaston is so tight, even worse when the school kids are coming out of the school, the buses get stuck. I do hope the 31 stays the same from City to Acocks Green.
I agree with the 5 no longer using Springfield Road, can be tight at times with cars parked everywhere. But in a way I disagree with the 2 using Stoney Lane. The 3 can be get snarled up trying to do the right turn onto Highgate Road in both directions, but would mean the 2 doesn't get stuck in Stratford Road traffic.
People are still moaning about the 37 no longer serving Olton Station (been 2 years now). Waste of time going down there, nobody really used the stops. The two 'replacement' pole stops on Warwick Road could do with shelters, these stops do tend to get a number of people waiting at them. Funnily enough the people who moan are the elderly who don't want to do a short walk.
I do agree with that about Redstone Farm Road operation wise. But Pitmaston Road runs through the middle of two sides of a dump basically. So either side use the 31. Redstone Farm is further away for a lot of the clients for the 31. (Basically if you look in between Shirley Road & Redstone Farm Road, the 31 caters for all of that estate within there. Moving it to Redstone is pushing it away from those towards the Shirley Road side.)
And yeah, that Stoney Lane/Highgate Road junction is an absolute nightmare. In fact that junction definitely needs looking at. I think it'd be good to have Stoney Lane crossing Highgate Road, through that car park and meeting Stratford Road. It'd be a weird junction but it's be better. Spread the traffic around a bit!
Quote from: Winston on June 17, 2018, 06:45:44 PM
NX were quick enough to publise the extension of the 10A to Lichfield effective from the same date, but don't seem so keen to publish full details of these changes, could it be that they may not be popular?
The reason is whenever there's one of these mass changes the commercial network is registered and Once TfWM receive the registrations they then look to see if any tendered services need changing or adding before the full network is made public
Quote from: Tony on June 17, 2018, 10:00:15 PM
The reason is whenever there's one of these mass changes the commercial network is registered and Once TfWM receive the registrations they then look to see if any tendered services need changing or adding before the full network is made public
Isn't that leaving things a little late though? The commercial registrations already appear to have gone in / being made public 2-3 weeks late i.e well after the usual 56 day notice period. It's only 5 weeks today until they now take place.
Quote from: Tony on June 17, 2018, 10:00:15 PM
The reason is whenever there's one of these mass changes the commercial network is registered and Once TfWM receive the registrations they then look to see if any tendered services need changing or adding before the full network is made public
I thought the rules had now changed and as a result TFWM would have notified many weeks ago?
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Sudden_changes_to_bus_service_registration_law_deliver_industry_turmoil
Quote from: MW on June 17, 2018, 08:00:52 PM
I do agree with that about Redstone Farm Road operation wise. But Pitmaston Road runs through the middle of two sides of a dump basically. So either side use the 31. Redstone Farm is further away for a lot of the clients for the 31. (Basically if you look in between Shirley Road & Redstone Farm Road, the 31 caters for all of that estate within there. Moving it to Redstone is pushing it away from those towards the Shirley Road side.)
And yeah, that Stoney Lane/Highgate Road junction is an absolute nightmare. In fact that junction definitely needs looking at. I think it'd be good to have Stoney Lane crossing Highgate Road, through that car park and meeting Stratford Road. It'd be a weird junction but it's be better. Spread the traffic around a bit!
Back when the consultation started, there was the option for the 31 to be rerouted off Pitmaston Road onto Redstone Farm Road. Another option which sounded bad was removing the 1 and 31 off Nailstone Crescent, Broom Hill Cresecent and Severne Road and to keep them down Gospel Lane. I didn't think that will please people from Severne Road.
The Stoney Lane/Highgate and Stratford Road junction is a real joke. I remember all the work that was done a few years ago to 'improve' the whole junction. I'd leave the 2 in its current form through Sparkhill instead of it having go through that nuisance junction, the 3 struggles getting through it a lot of the time.
Quote from: metrocity on June 17, 2018, 10:08:42 PM
I thought the rules had now changed and as a result TFWM would have notified many weeks ago?
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Sudden_changes_to_bus_service_registration_law_deliver_industry_turmoil
Yes that's correct. Operators have to announce changes to local authorities 23 days before registering them.
Has anyone else heard rumours that the road layout around the uni/ QE is going to get looked at? I certainly hope that this has got some legs as it seems to be getting steadily worse.
The thought of more buses through there I think will finally tip me over to either cycling or the train permanently! I can't be the only one that gets agitated by this nightmare.
Whoever designed the layout around the QE had clearly been watching too much F1 as it's essentially a pit stop.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 18, 2018, 05:35:23 PM
Whoever designed the layout around the QE had clearly been watching too much F1 as it's essentially a pit stop.
Sounds like Square Peg stops after 5pm on a weeknight !
Surprised no one's mentioned this that was on the website:
"Following an extensive public consultation, this summer we're making some changes to bus routes in and around South / South West Birmingham.
These include small changes, such as timetable improvements so that our buses can run more reliably. There are also some larger route changes, to cater for new and emerging travel needs, and also help to overcome increasing traffic congestion around busier areas.
These changes will bring new express services, more direct routes to Queen Elizabeth Hospital and the University of Birmingham, and a simpler network that is easier to understand.
Many will see very little change to their journey, but we've put together this route-by-route guide to tell you about what's happening in the coming weeks.
The following changes will be made from Sunday 22nd July 2018.
[Insert Map]
Service 1 will be replaced with the following new and modified routes:
1 / 1A Fox Hollies – Acocks Green – Springfield – Moseley – Cannon Hill Park – Five Ways (1) or University / QE Hospital (1A)
Buses run up to every 10-20 minutes
4A Gospel Oak – Acocks Green – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 10 minutes
+ More buses will run through Mosley (1 / 1A)
+ New direct route to University / QE Hospital (1A)
+ Gospel Oak will have more and faster buses to / from the city centre (4A)
- Gospel Oak will no longer be served by the 1
The 1 / 1A will run up to every 10 minutes between Acocks Green and Edgbaston, from there the 1 will run up to every 20 minutes to Five Ways; the new route 1A will then run up to every 20 minutes along Bristol Road and Aston Webb Boulevard to University / QE Hospital.
In Acocks Green / Fox Hollies, buses on the 1 / 1A route will run around a loop of Shirley Road, Dolphin Lane and Olton Boulevard East.
The new 4A will run from Gospel Oak along Severne Road and Gospel Lane to Warwick Road, then through Acocks Green and direct along Warwick Road to Birmingham city centre, reducing journey times for our passengers.
2 / 3 Maypole – Warstock – Yardley Wood – Billesley – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 10 minutes between Wake Green and Birmingham
+ Buses will run up to every 10 minutes between Billesley and the city centre
Between Wake Green and the city centre, services 2 / 3 will now use the same route along Stoney Lane. Showell Green Lane will now be served by the 5.
4 / 4A Solihull (4) / Gospel Oak (4A) – Acocks Green – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 10 minutes
+ Buses will run up to every 5 minutes between Acocks Green and the city centre along Warwick Road
+ Buses will run up to every 10 minutes to / from Gospel Oak
The new 4 / 4A services replace routes 37 and 31, see these sections for more information.
5 Solihull – Monkspath – Shirley – Sarehole Mill – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 6 minutes along Stratford Road (when combined with the 6)
+ More reliable buses by avoiding Springfield Road and traffic in Solihull
+ Robin Hood Lane will be served again
- Buses will not serve Springfield Road due to ongoing issues with parking
Between Solihull and Widney Manor Station, buses will no longer serve stops on New Road and Warwick Road, due to delays caused by traffic queuing for town centre car parks.
At Widney Manor Station, buses towards Solihull will now stop opposite the station entrance and not pull into the forecourt.
Springfield Road will no longer be served due to ongoing issues with parking, preventing larger vehicles from passing and causing delays. All buses on this route will now serve Showell Green Lane. This may be revised if the problem improves in future.
Services 22 / 23 will be replaced with the new and modified routes:
23 Bartley Green – Woodgate – Harborne – Five Ways – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 8-10 minutes
X22 Woodgate – Kitwell – Bartley Green – University / QE Hospital – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 20 minutes
+ More buses in Bartley Green, Woodgate & Woodgate Valley South areas (23)
+ Harborne to Birmingham buses will now simply be numbered 23 / 24
+ New and direct links to University / QE Hospital from Kitwell, Bartley Green, Jiggins Lane and Quinton Road
+ New Platinum buses on routes 23 / X22, offering premium comfort with extra legroom, wifi and USB points
- Kitwell and Jiggins Lane will no longer have direct buses to Harborne; passengers can connect to 23 / X22 services along Stonehouse Road or California Way
- Buses will run less often during the day to Kitwell and Jiggins Lane, running every 20 minutes instead of every 15 minutes
The current 22 / 23 services will be combined into one, simpler, more frequent route; the new 23. This will run from Newman University via Bartley Green, Romsley Road, Woodgate, Woodgate Valley South, Harborne and Five Ways to Birmingham.
Kitwell and Jiggins Lane, currently served by the 22, will be served by the new X22. This will run from Woodgate via Kitwell, Romsley Road, Bartley Green, Jiggins Lane, California, Quinton Road and University / QE Hospital to Birmingham.
To help improve reliability, bus stops on Stonehouse Lane and Stonehouse Hill will be moved onto California Way and Northfield Road."
Ok,
Logically, the 4/4A make sense. It definitely simplified things, but I'm annoyed. My local routes are getting tampered with.
I have to walk further to get a route into town now. I suspect Spring Road Station will be getting busier around here then...
It's not of the NXWM website now, plus there's a number of services changes we know have been registered missing off that list
Presumably branding for the Platinums will commence in the not too distant future then.....
Quote from: MW on June 21, 2018, 04:33:40 PM
Ok,
Logically, the 4/4A make sense. It definitely simplified things, but I'm annoyed. My local routes are getting tampered with.
I have to walk further to get a route into town now. I suspect Spring Road Station will be getting busier around here then...
Why does the 37 need to be pointlessly renumbered? The 31 being pointlessly renumbered really winds me up, let alone it means Shaftmoor Lane no longer has a bus to the City. But it does mean the Gospel Oak users will be happier with a faster bus to City. The 1 no longer serving Gospel Oak is a shock considering the 1 and 31 currently do slightly different routes around the estate.
I am happy the 5 is staying as it is, love the route. The new 4 and 4A will no doubt be E200 MMC's. I'm just superised the 37 is being renumbered. Will all the MMC's be getting debranded?
Also, you'd think they'd spell
Moseley right! They've put Mosley!
Still doesn't say where exactly the X22 will be Limited Stop.
Quote from: Jack on June 21, 2018, 05:09:54 PM
Why does the 37 need to be pointlessly renumbered? . The 31 being pointlessly renumbered really winds me up, let alone it means Shaftmoor Lane no longer has a bus to the City.
I am happy the 5 is staying as it is, love the route. The new 4 and 4A will no doubt be E200 MMC's. I'm just superised the 37 is being renumbered. Will all the MMC's be getting debranded?
You can see why they're being renumbered. Routes 2/3/4/4A/5/6 will all be Stratford Road routes. And the 1 is a route that crosses all of the above routes at some point.
So as far as I can tell, Acocks Green to Solihull is going from 10 buses an hour to 6.
The new 4's PVR will be around 12.
The 4A will be around 10
Currently, the 31/37 is about 28.
I reckon 4A will be all MMCs, although there are some tight turns around Gospel. And then the 4 being a mixture of MMC and Gemini, considering Acocks Green to Solihull is getting a frequency cut.
The 1/1A will probably be ran with whatever's left over, although some branding would be nice. I'm sssuming the terminus for the 1 will be the layby on Olton Boulevard East, at the roundabout with Fox Hollies Road.
It appears the page has been removed - if you Google bus X22 Birmingham one of the hits that comes up is a nxbus.co.uk page and you can see some of the text in the earlier post, but when you click on the link it says unable to load the requested page.
Not that it affects me but I'm surprised at how Jiggins Lane and Kitwell have been shafted by these changes. In years gone by, Jiggins Lane had a more frequent service than South Woodgate, at one stage served by the 12 and 22. Now it has a 20 minute service and no link to Harborne.
I'm also intrigued as to how and where the X22 will be 'express'. It will sit in endless traffic like everything else in West Birmingham.
I predict it will be every bit as successful as the X64 - a soon to be gone route that was changed more often than most people change their underwear.
I'm more interested to hear what's going to be happening with my locals (48/48A). Presumably the changes were taken down because some routes weren't mentioned
"To help improve reliability, bus stops on Stonehouse Lane and Stonehouse Hill will be moved onto California Way and Northfield Road."
That bit is quite amusing. As I've said before it doesn't make much difference and in fact going along Stonehouse Hill can skip past some cars stuck in the Northfield Road/California Way traffic. But whatever floats their boat.
This seems to suggest that the 23 and x22 will towards Birmingham will load from opposite sides of the road... unless the 23 runs from Newman College via Field Road and then Romsley Road and Adams Hill towards Woodgate Valley South.
Think these will be interesting changes. Surprised to see the 37 route number go but makes sense I guess.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 21, 2018, 06:31:54 PM
This seems to suggest that the 23 and x22 will towards Birmingham will load from opposite sides of the road... unless the 23 runs from Newman College via Field Road and then Romsley Road and Adams Hill towards Woodgate Valley South.
Think these will be interesting changes. Surprised to see the 37 route number go but makes sense I guess.
My reading of it was that the 23 will run from Newman College via Field Lane to Romsley Road - so won't serve the current Wood Lane terminus - which will go from 11 buses an hour (22, 23, X64) to 3 (X22) by the looks of it!
Quote from: Jack on June 21, 2018, 05:09:54 PM
Why does the 37 need to be pointlessly renumbered? The 31 being pointlessly renumbered really winds me up, let alone it means Shaftmoor Lane no longer has a bus to the City. But it does mean the Gospel Oak users will be happier with a faster bus to City. The 1 no longer serving Gospel Oak is a shock considering the 1 and 31 currently do slightly different routes around the estate.
I am happy the 5 is staying as it is, love the route. The new 4 and 4A will no doubt be E200 MMC's. I'm just superised the 37 is being renumbered. Will all the MMC's be getting debranded?
Also, you'd think they'd spell Moseley right! They've put Mosley!
Not that much of a surprise, they're always very empty between Acocks Green and Gospel Oak, nobody uses the 1 round there, perhaps that is the reason its being withdrawn, though the 31 doesn't serve Pool Farm Road.
Quote from: Jack on June 21, 2018, 05:09:54 PM
The 31 being pointlessly renumbered really winds me up, let alone it means Shaftmoor Lane no longer has a bus to the City. But it does mean the Gospel Oak users will be happier with a faster bus to City. The 1 no longer serving Gospel Oak is a shock considering the 1 and 31 currently do slightly different routes around the estate.
That's because again you are being know it all without knowing what's going on.
The 31 isn't being renumbered pointlessly. The 31 is being cut short to run between Acocks Green and Solihull only. The 1 is still serving part of the estate (not the Gospel Oak pub), but a different part to the 4A which is a brand new route, so has a brand new number
Quote from: Oozells on June 21, 2018, 04:28:46 PM
Surprised no one's mentioned this that was on the website:
"Following an extensive public consultation, this summer we're making some changes to bus routes in and around South / South West Birmingham.
These include small changes, such as timetable improvements so that our buses can run more reliably. There are also some larger route changes, to cater for new and emerging travel needs, and also help to overcome increasing traffic congestion around busier areas.
These changes will bring new express services, more direct routes to Queen Elizabeth Hospital and the University of Birmingham, and a simpler network that is easier to understand.
Many will see very little change to their journey, but we've put together this route-by-route guide to tell you about what's happening in the coming weeks.
The following changes will be made from Sunday 22nd July 2018.
[Insert Map]
Service 1 will be replaced with the following new and modified routes:
1 / 1A Fox Hollies – Acocks Green – Springfield – Moseley – Cannon Hill Park – Five Ways (1) or University / QE Hospital (1A)
Buses run up to every 10-20 minutes
4A Gospel Oak – Acocks Green – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 10 minutes
+ More buses will run through Mosley (1 / 1A)
+ New direct route to University / QE Hospital (1A)
+ Gospel Oak will have more and faster buses to / from the city centre (4A)
- Gospel Oak will no longer be served by the 1
The 1 / 1A will run up to every 10 minutes between Acocks Green and Edgbaston, from there the 1 will run up to every 20 minutes to Five Ways; the new route 1A will then run up to every 20 minutes along Bristol Road and Aston Webb Boulevard to University / QE Hospital.
In Acocks Green / Fox Hollies, buses on the 1 / 1A route will run around a loop of Shirley Road, Dolphin Lane and Olton Boulevard East.
The new 4A will run from Gospel Oak along Severne Road and Gospel Lane to Warwick Road, then through Acocks Green and direct along Warwick Road to Birmingham city centre, reducing journey times for our passengers.
2 / 3 Maypole – Warstock – Yardley Wood – Billesley – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 10 minutes between Wake Green and Birmingham
+ Buses will run up to every 10 minutes between Billesley and the city centre
Between Wake Green and the city centre, services 2 / 3 will now use the same route along Stoney Lane. Showell Green Lane will now be served by the 5.
4 / 4A Solihull (4) / Gospel Oak (4A) – Acocks Green – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 10 minutes
+ Buses will run up to every 5 minutes between Acocks Green and the city centre along Warwick Road
+ Buses will run up to every 10 minutes to / from Gospel Oak
The new 4 / 4A services replace routes 37 and 31, see these sections for more information.
5 Solihull – Monkspath – Shirley – Sarehole Mill – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 6 minutes along Stratford Road (when combined with the 6)
+ More reliable buses by avoiding Springfield Road and traffic in Solihull
+ Robin Hood Lane will be served again
- Buses will not serve Springfield Road due to ongoing issues with parking
Between Solihull and Widney Manor Station, buses will no longer serve stops on New Road and Warwick Road, due to delays caused by traffic queuing for town centre car parks.
At Widney Manor Station, buses towards Solihull will now stop opposite the station entrance and not pull into the forecourt.
Springfield Road will no longer be served due to ongoing issues with parking, preventing larger vehicles from passing and causing delays. All buses on this route will now serve Showell Green Lane. This may be revised if the problem improves in future.
Services 22 / 23 will be replaced with the new and modified routes:
23 Bartley Green – Woodgate – Harborne – Five Ways – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 8-10 minutes
X22 Woodgate – Kitwell – Bartley Green – University / QE Hospital – Birmingham
Buses run up to every 20 minutes
+ More buses in Bartley Green, Woodgate & Woodgate Valley South areas (23)
+ Harborne to Birmingham buses will now simply be numbered 23 / 24
+ New and direct links to University / QE Hospital from Kitwell, Bartley Green, Jiggins Lane and Quinton Road
+ New Platinum buses on routes 23 / X22, offering premium comfort with extra legroom, wifi and USB points
- Kitwell and Jiggins Lane will no longer have direct buses to Harborne; passengers can connect to 23 / X22 services along Stonehouse Road or California Way
- Buses will run less often during the day to Kitwell and Jiggins Lane, running every 20 minutes instead of every 15 minutes
The current 22 / 23 services will be combined into one, simpler, more frequent route; the new 23. This will run from Newman University via Bartley Green, Romsley Road, Woodgate, Woodgate Valley South, Harborne and Five Ways to Birmingham.
Kitwell and Jiggins Lane, currently served by the 22, will be served by the new X22. This will run from Woodgate via Kitwell, Romsley Road, Bartley Green, Jiggins Lane, California, Quinton Road and University / QE Hospital to Birmingham.
To help improve reliability, bus stops on Stonehouse Lane and Stonehouse Hill will be moved onto California Way and Northfield Road."
Thank you for sharing this
@Tony - Any idea if this has increased or reduced the PVR at the Respective Garages?
Clearly it looks to me as if a 'draft' of the service changes article was 'published' in error. The copied text here mentions referring to the 'section on the 31 and 37' which did not appear, so there is more to this than the "31 pointlessly being renumbered", as Tony has already pointed out.
As someone who has lived in Acocks Green and used buses there, I welcome the changes, as the curtailed 31 will be a far more reliable service than it is at present for those who travel between Acocks Green and Solihull only.
And yes, it is sad that the 37 route number is changing, but it will then 'fit in' with the other Stratford Road service numbers, and should hopefully stop people being confused with the 37 between Walsall and Willenhall :P
It would help if some people could be a little more patient and wait for the finalised full details to be published on the NX Bus website before jumping to conclusions.
Quote from: Stu on June 21, 2018, 08:35:03 PM
Clearly it looks to me as if a 'draft' of the service changes article was 'published' in error. The copied text here mentions referring to the 'section on the 31 and 37' which did not appear, so there is more to this than the "31 pointlessly being renumbered", as Tony has already pointed out.
As someone who has lived in Acocks Green and used buses there, I welcome the changes, as the curtailed 31 will be a far more reliable service than it is at present for those who travel between Acocks Green and Solihull only.
And yes, it is sad that the 37 route number is changing, but it will then 'fit in' with the other Stratford Road service numbers, and should hopefully stop people being confused with the 37 between Walsall and Willenhall :P
It would help if some people could be a little more patient and wait for the finalised full details to be published on the NX Bus website before jumping to conclusions.
It would help if NXWM just published the changes. The East Birmingham changes came into force on 4th June last year and changes appeared on the NXWM website at the end of April, that's six weeks earlier. The South Birmingham changes come into force 22nd July, thats just over 4 weeks !
Quote from: Stu on June 21, 2018, 08:35:03 PM
And yes, it is sad that the 37 route number is changing, but it will then 'fit in' with the other Stratford Road service numbers, and should hopefully stop people being confused with the 37 between Walsall and Willenhall :P
They might get confused with the 4 between Walsall and Blackeath now (Joke btw) :)
Personally I don't mind people speculating etc, it's better than reading what bus number is out on a route for a day.
I am liking the simplications of numbers, I just wish that the Dudley review will just re number all the routes in the area instead of bits at a time. And when will the X96 lose it's X!
I personally think it's time nx published the changes with the amount information & misinformation that's out there passengers are starting to get worried about their travel plans.
Quote from: Steveminor on June 21, 2018, 09:37:05 PM
I personally think it's time nx published the changes with the amount information & misinformation that's out there passengers are starting to get worried about their travel plans.
On that note what's happening with the regular centro updates they seem to be a bit lacked these days
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on June 21, 2018, 09:33:50 PM
I am liking the simplications of numbers, I just wish that the Dudley review will just re number all the routes in the area instead of bits at a time. And when will the X96 lose it's X!
I personally don't get this obsession with 'simplification' of numbers, and I don't think routes into Birmingham need it. They're already simple and most people aren't retards. The 37 has been around for donkeys years, changing the number is more likely to cause confusion than simplification. And often, a simpler network is just politician speak for reducing the number of routes serving a corridor, and often reducing the number of buses per hour along most of that corridor.
The person who usually does the ita sheets has been on long term sick but is back now so these should start again soon.
Thanks for the update.
Also agree on the numbers things people can read :)
Quote from: Mike K on June 21, 2018, 09:59:02 PM
I personally don't get this obsession with 'simplification' of numbers, and I don't think routes into Birmingham need it. They're already simple and most people aren't retards. The 37 has been around for donkeys years, changing the number is more likely to cause confusion than simplification. And often, a simpler network is just politician speak for reducing the number of routes serving a corridor, and often reducing the number of buses per hour along most of that corridor.
Fully agree with this.
Why is the 37 getting a frequency decrease?! Why mess with something that is perfectly fine as it is? It is always busy during the daytime and peak time?
Quote from: Bus1237 on June 21, 2018, 10:19:52 PM
Why is the 37 getting a frequency decrease?! Why mess with something that is perfectly fine as it is? It is always busy during the daytime and peak time?
The whole of the 37 route isn't having a slight frequency decrease, its only Acocks Green to Solihull is having a slight frequency decrease to every 10 minutes.
Acocks Green to City Centre will be every 5 minutes, a very slight increase.
Quote from: 2206 on June 21, 2018, 10:24:17 PM
The whole of the 37 route isn't having a slight frequency decrease, its only Acocks Green to Solihull is having a slight frequency decrease to every 10 minutes.
Acocks Green to City Centre will be every 5 minutes.
I know but between Acocks Green and Solihull it is always really busy... I cannot see why there is a decrease in frequency - if anything the 1 should be decreasing rather than increasing!
Quote from: Bus1237 on June 21, 2018, 10:28:51 PM
I know but between Acocks Green and Solihull it is always really busy... I cannot see why there is a decrease in frequency - if anything the 1 should be decreasing rather than increasing!
I reckon the 4 (current 37) will be Gemini operated, and the 4A will get the MMCs, to compensate.
Maybe they'll run 4Es between Solihull & Acocks Green.
Quote from: Straightlines on June 21, 2018, 08:00:40 PM
Thank you for sharing this
@Tony - Any idea if this has increased or reduced the PVR at the Respective Garages?
A significant deduction I suspect. Bear in mind not all route cacncellations have been revealed yet - 84 etc..
Quote from: Bus1237 on June 21, 2018, 10:19:52 PM
Why is the 37 getting a frequency decrease?! Why mess with something that is perfectly fine as it is? It is always busy during the daytime and peak time?
It is fine in it's current form, you are correct. It currently works fine combined with the 6 as well as the other Stratford Road services.
Quote from: Mike K on June 21, 2018, 09:59:02 PM
I personally don't get this obsession with 'simplification' of numbers, and I don't think routes into Birmingham need it. They're already simple and most people aren't retards. The 37 has been around for donkeys years, changing the number is more likely to cause confusion than simplification. And often, a simpler network is just politician speak for reducing the number of routes serving a corridor, and often reducing the number of buses per hour along most of that corridor.
I fully agree with you on this.
Quote from: metrocity on June 21, 2018, 10:37:25 PM
A significant deduction I suspect. Bear in mind not all route cacncellations have been revealed yet - 84 etc..
Aren't bus links to the QE very highly needed though? Even though the road system there can be awful at times.
Quote from: MW on June 21, 2018, 10:35:22 PM
I reckon the 4 (current 37) will be Gemini operated, and the 4A will get the MMCs, to compensate.
Maybe they'll run 4Es between Solihull & Acocks Green.
E200 MMC's on the 4A, can see this happen, but there is some tight turns around Gospel Oak. A few times I've ridden them on the 31 they have on some journeys got stuck. I remember the same story with the Omnilinks and Urban 2's.
Quote from: Mike K on June 21, 2018, 09:59:02 PM
I personally don't get this obsession with 'simplification' of numbers, and I don't think routes into Birmingham need it. They're already simple and most people aren't retards. The 37 has been around for donkeys years, changing the number is more likely to cause confusion than simplification. And often, a simpler network is just politician speak for reducing the number of routes serving a corridor, and often reducing the number of buses per hour along most of that corridor.
Ever thought by saying we are introducing route 4 every 10 minutes it sounds more positive than saying the 37 to Solihull is being cut back to every 10 minutes. Not very original!
I remember a senior manager of a company held in high esteem in the industry saying theres more to successful city bus operation than new vehicles. Familiar numbers serving city centres.
Another day goes by and still no publication of the changes, this is getting ridiculous now because they start 28 days from Sunday !
It's ridiculous..... they seem to forget that not everyone has access to, or uses the internet, and therefore good old fashioned notices need to go on buses also....! People need time to get their heads round it, even if they are not accepting of it, it gives people that little longer to get used to the changes.
Notice how the hierarchy on this forum and nx are not getting involved in this thread. Interesting. Suggestions that they know the changes are going to make people worse off and try not to engage in conversation?
The cynical side of me would say the 37 only became really frequent when it gained additional competition of whole route and am I right that these days that corridor doesn't have any competitors? Nx is a private profit making firm I guess
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 22, 2018, 08:02:53 PM
The cynical side of me would say the 37 only became really frequent when it gained additional competition of whole route and am I right that these days that corridor doesn't have any competitors? Nx is a private profit making firm I guess
Obviously it's a private profit making firm. As are all the other operators.
37 has no competition anymore nope. But it's always had regularly investment/ every few years it tends to get new buses. Speaking of which, it's due some in the next couple years.
Your right shame it's has; not consistent across the network. Couldn't resist lol.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 22, 2018, 08:12:53 PM
Your right shame it's has; not consistent across the network. Couldn't resist lol.
The 37 had a frequency increase when it became a single deck route. But it must make them a lot of money for them to be able to justify reinvesting. Over the years it's had new Plaxton Presidents, Gemini's, Eclipse Urban 1s, Scania Omnilink & now E200MMCs. And then there's the rumour of the hydrogen buses, if that's still happening.
The 50 is another route that's seen a lot of investment over the years. But again, it must generate a lot of profit. I've always thought that the 50 would be an ideal candidate for Hybrid buses. If the Camp Hill line reopens in the coming years, it will no doubt be bad for business for the 50.
For many years the 37 and the 44 ran in combination until Acocks Green then the 44 went off the other side of Acocks Green to terminate in Lincoln Road North. I have an early 1980's timetable where they both ran every 10 minutes at the busiest so there was then a 5 minute frequency over the City to Acocks Green part.
So this seems to be a return to having the highest frequency between the City and AG only then the lesser frequency continuing along the Warwick Road into Solihull which probably best meets the demand.
Are we not going to mention that these proposed changes include a new X20 route despite there already being one that goes to Stratford Upon Avon?
Quote from: OH25 on June 22, 2018, 11:37:14 PM
Are we not going to mention that these proposed changes include a new X20 route despite there already being one that goes to Stratford Upon Avon?
Quote from: Dom on June 11, 2018, 08:01:37 PM
Because that route number isn't going to cause confusion with a certain Johnsons route.
Acocks Green to Solihull will be fine with a 10 min frequency, the vast majority of custom on the current 37 is between city and Acocks Green which oh look will have more buses....
I actually quite like the Stratford Road changes, it makes a lot of sense renumbering the 37 to fit in with the rest. Intrigued though about the 31, a mention of it still serving Shaftsmoor Lane but being curtailed - does that mean the city bit is staying? Or the Solihull bit? Time is ticking to get all of this information out to customers...
Does anyone know if these route changes are likely to involve stop changes in the city centre? Because that's going g to be an awful lot of buses at the current 6/37 stop which already causes issues for other buses trying to pull out of Carrs Lane
Not sure if these have been previously mentioned but there will also be route changes for the 24 and 35. For the 24 there were proposed changes in the city centre and Woodgate Valley North so could be either or both of these:
PD0001111 Standard National
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
PD0001111/27
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED, 51 BORDESLEY GREEN, BIRMINGHAM, B9 4BZ
Operating between Birmingham and Woodgate Valley North given service number 24 / 24 effective from 22 July 2018. To amend Route and Timetable.
Publication: N&P West Midlands(2349), Bus Registration Variation
Date: 22 Jun 2018
PD0001111 Standard National
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED
PD0001111/38
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LIMITED, 51 BORDESLEY GREEN, BIRMINGHAM, B9 4BZ
Operating between Hawkesley and Birmingham, City Centre given service number 35 / 35 effective from 22 July 2018. To amend Route and Timetable.
Publication: N&P West Midlands(2349), Bus Registration Variation
Date: 22 Jun 2018
Other route changes from 22 July include the 49, 73 and 97.
Quote from: Kevin on June 23, 2018, 07:09:54 AM
Acocks Green to Solihull will be fine with a 10 min frequency, the vast majority of custom on the current 37 is between city and Acocks Green which oh look will have more buses....
I actually quite like the Stratford Road changes, it makes a lot of sense renumbering the 37 to fit in with the rest. Intrigued though about the 31, a mention of it still serving Shaftsmoor Lane but being curtailed - does that mean the city bit is staying? Or the Solihull bit? Time is ticking to get all of this information out to customers...
Does anyone know if these route changes are likely to involve stop changes in the city centre? Because that's going g to be an awful lot of buses at the current 6/37 stop which already causes issues for other buses trying to pull out of Carrs Lane
@Tony said the 31 is still serving Gospel Oak not Shaftsmoor Lane and will operate between Acocks Green and Solihull only
Quote from: Tony on June 21, 2018, 07:51:58 PM
That's because again you are being know it all without knowing what's going on.
The 31 isn't being renumbered pointlessly. The 31 is being cut short to run between Acocks Green and Solihull only. The 1 is still serving part of the estate (not the Gospel Oak pub), but a different part to the 4A which is a brand new route, so has a brand new number
Quote from: 2206 on June 23, 2018, 09:24:56 AM
@Tony said the 31 is still serving Gospel Oak not Shaftsmoor Lane and will operate between Acocks Green and Solihull only
My bad, can't read.
What was the comment about Shaftsmoor Lane losing a city service then?
Quote from: OH25 on June 22, 2018, 11:37:14 PM
Are we not going to mention that these proposed changes include a new X20 route despite there already being one that goes to Stratford Upon Avon?
Whilst I disagree with any duplicated route number, at one time we had two 56's running into the City Centre. And as far as know, no one mixed those two up.
Quote from: Gareth on June 23, 2018, 10:05:52 AM
Whilst I disagree with any duplicated route number, at one time we had two 56's running into the City Centre. And as far as know, no one mixed those two up.
An overseas tourist could be in for a shock if they thought they were going to Stratford on Avon on the X20 and found themselves at the Grosvenor Shopping Centre in Northfield on the NX X20 :)
Quote from: OH25 on June 22, 2018, 11:37:14 PM
Are we not going to mention that these proposed changes include a new X20 route despite there already being one that goes to Stratford Upon Avon?
Yeah, I already had.
Quote from: Gareth on June 23, 2018, 10:05:52 AM
Whilst I disagree with any duplicated route number, at one time we had two 56's running into the City Centre. And as far as know, no one mixed those two up.
For a while there were two 115s using Upper Bull Street, don't recall much uproar at the time
In fact, how do people ever cope with cross city/town services, I'm currently in Telford and the 4 in both directions stop next to each other
People just moaning for the sake of it
Quote from: Kevin on June 23, 2018, 09:48:19 AM
My bad, can't read.
What was the comment about Shaftsmoor Lane losing a city service then?
Shaftmoor Lane is losing a City service, aswell as Fox Hollies. You'd have to get the more frequent 1, and changeover to another route at some point.
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 21, 2018, 06:13:32 PM
I'm more interested to hear what's going to be happening with my locals (48/48A). Presumably the changes were taken down because some routes weren't mentioned
@Sh4318.
The 48 will be Northfield - West Heath - Hawkesley - Cotteridge - Bournville - Selly Oak - QE Hospital/University -
Harborne - Bearwood - Smethwick - West Bromwich. Every 30 minutes.
It seems, as it looks like this was on the NX website, with the current 48 route being replaced by the 27 between Northfield and the QE.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1565367926907413&set=p.1565367926907413&type=3&theater
The 48 will be one long route with these changes!
Quote from: 2206 on June 23, 2018, 06:48:50 PM
@Sh4318.
The 48 will be Northfield - West Heath - Hawkesley - Cotteridge - Bournville - Selly Oak - QE Hospital/University -
Harbourne - Bearwood - Smethwick - West Bromwich. Every 30 minutes.
It seems, as it looks like this was on the NX website, with the current 48 route being replaced by the 27 between Northfield and the QE.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1565367926907413&set=p.1565367926907413&type=3&theater
I look forward to seeing bunched 48 & 48As on Holly Lane every day
I think the 48 will be too long, i would run the 48 from West Bromwich to QE Hospital and a 26 from QE Hospital to Northfield
Quote from: sonic84 on June 23, 2018, 07:03:09 PM
The 48 will be one long route with these changes!
This is one thing I don't quite get about these sort of reviews. They do all this "simplifying of routes" which for the most make sense, but then go all out on making one particular route ridiculous and convoluted to cover all the gaps
Quote from: Kevin on June 23, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
This is one thing I don't quite get about these sort of reviews. They do all this "simplifying of routes" which for the most make sense, but then go all out on making one particular route ridiculous and convoluted to cover all the gaps
Agreed. That 48 route is a ridiculous collection of routes bolted together Frankenstein-style which flies in the face of a simpler more reliable network. How is that going to be reliable? Routes like the 69 were withdrawn for the very reason that they had got too long and unreliable.
And more frequency cuts - the Harborne to Northfield section of the 29 gets a 25% frequency reduction and the Northfield to Hawkesley section of the 27 gets a 33% reduction. Although to be fair the old 84 gets double the frequency, if it ever turns up on time.
Wait so is the 27 being withdrawn. If so, I suspect YW will be gaining the 5 from AG. Either that, or BC getting the X12.
With this JLR work coming to AG, and if YW are decreasing their PVR elsewhere, I reckon the 5 will go back to YW. That'd mean the Stratford Road corridor would all be based at YW, which would be a first.
Hasn't the 27 been registered? And also, it said it would terminate on Metchley Lane, so will it not go to the High St?
Quote from: MW on June 23, 2018, 08:02:48 PM
Wait so is the 27 being withdrawn. If so, I suspect YW will be gaining the 5 from AG. Either that, or BC getting the X12.
With this JLR work coming to AG, and if YW are decreasing their PVR elsewhere, I reckon the 5 will go back to YW. That'd mean the Stratford Road corridor would all be based at YW, which would be a first.
No the 27 is staying. But from Northfield it will now run via the soon to be no more 29 route to Harborne Green Man where it will terminate. The Northfield to Hawkesley section will be covered by the changes to the 48.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 23, 2018, 08:04:44 PM
Hasn't the 27 been registered? And also, it said it would terminate on Metchley Lane, so will it not go to the High St?
I'm assuming it will follow the 29 route to Harborne High St and finish at the Green Man, so will terminate at the Metchley Lane stop outside the Blue Coat school, like the old 20 route did years ago, and the Hanson's 004 more recently.
Quote from: MW on June 23, 2018, 08:02:48 PM
Wait so is the 27 being withdrawn. If so, I suspect YW will be gaining the 5 from AG. Either that, or BC getting the X12.
With this JLR work coming to AG, and if YW are decreasing their PVR elsewhere, I reckon the 5 will go back to YW. That'd mean the Stratford Road corridor would all be based at YW, which would be a first.
The 27 isn't being withdrawn.
The link says the 27 would be:
Harborne - Quinton Road - Weoley Castle - Northfield - Stirchley - Kings Heath -
Yardley Wood - Maypole.
The 48 would replace the withdrawn 84 and the Hawkesley to Northfield section of the 27.
I wonder whether anything will replace the 48 between Northfield and Weoley Castle?
Can't imagine they could leave it uncovered. Wasn't the plan originally for a 20 route to run from Northfield to The QE taking a similar route to the 48?
Quote from: Mike K on June 23, 2018, 08:08:13 PM
I'm assuming it will follow the 29 route to Harborne High St and finish at the Green Man, so will terminate at the Metchley Lane stop outside the Blue Coat school, like the old 20 route did years ago, and the Hanson's 004 more recently.
Ah duh, I was thinking of the other end of Metchley Lane! But how will it turn around from there to go back down the High Street towards Maypole?
Quote from: sonic84 on June 23, 2018, 08:10:08 PM
I wonder whether anything will replace the 48 between Northfield and Weoley Castle?
Can't imagine they could leave it uncovered. Wasn't the plan originally for a 20 route to run from Northfield to The QE taking a similar route to the 48?
Well at the moment you have both the 29 and 48 linking Weoley Castle and Northfield which as far as I'm aware is a well used link. Will be interesting if only the 27 replaces it.
Also will there be a 27s to replace the 29s?
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 23, 2018, 08:10:31 PM
Ah duh, I was thinking of the other end of Metchley Lane! But how will it turn around from there to go back down the High Street towards Maypole?
Presumably down Somerset Road, all the way round the first island, right onto Metchley Lane and left back onto High St. That's the way the old 20 turned around anyway. Another option is to go up to the first island on Metchley Lane and turn all the way round that.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 23, 2018, 08:10:31 PM
Ah duh, I was thinking of the other end of Metchley Lane! But how will it turn around from there to go back down the High Street towards Maypole?
It could possibly from Northfield direction go in to the QE, back out and up Harborne Lane, down the high street to the Green Man then down Metchley Lane and back into QE along a loop.
Quote from: 2206 on June 23, 2018, 08:08:32 PM
The 27 isn't being withdrawn.
The link says the 27 would be:
Harborne - University/QE - Quinton Road - Weoley Castle - Northfield - Stirchley - Kings Heath -
Yardley Wood - Maypole.
The 48 would replace the withdrawn 84 and the Hawkesley to Northfield section of the 27.
It doesn't say the 27 will serve the QE/University - my reading of it is that it will run similarly or the same as the 29 from Northfield as far as Harborne.
Quote from: 2206 on June 23, 2018, 08:08:32 PM
The 27 isn't being withdrawn.
The link says the 27 would be:
Harborne - Quinton Road - Weoley Castle - Northfield - Stirchley - Kings Heath -
Yardley Wood - Maypole.
The 48 would replace the withdrawn 84 and the Hawkesley to Northfield section of the 27.
And the 48A?
Wasn't there a suggestion that a service from Northfield towards harborne would use all of weoley castle road, turn right at the island (top of Shenley lane) and down Barnes Hill and then on to California way etc....
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on June 23, 2018, 09:48:59 PM
Wasn't there a suggestion that a service from Northfield towards harborne would use all of weoley castle road, turn right at the island (top of Shenley lane) and down Barnes Hill and then on to California way etc....
Don't remember that. There was a 'Route 19' though that was to serve Black Haynes Road and Fox Hill towards the Uni.
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on June 23, 2018, 08:21:14 PM
And the 48A?
Wasn't mentioned in the image that has shared, so presumably is staying the same. I do think more could be done with the 48A. The Abbey Road corridor doesn't need 8 buses an hour to Bearwood, and there are some roads around the area that have no direct service to either West Bromwich or Bearwood following the withdrawals of the 53 then 50A & 50C
What image was shared?
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on June 23, 2018, 10:18:46 PM
What image was shared?
It was a link to a Facebook picture posted by 2206; someone took a screenshot of the changes that were somehow accidentally posted to the NXBus website - they were quickly taken down:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1565367926907413&set=p.1565367926907413&type=3&theater
These changes leave Quinton Lane without a direct service to Birmingham don't they? Or have I read that wrong?
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 23, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
These changes leave Quinton Lane without a direct service to Birmingham don't they? Or have I read that wrong?
Quinton Road will still have a link to Birmingham with the X22 I believe
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 23, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
These changes leave Quinton Lane without a direct service to Birmingham don't they? Or have I read that wrong?
Quinton Road will have the X22. Harborne Park Road, Alwold Road, Barnes Hill and Shenley Lane will be without one.
This is where the South Birmingham changes are being kept due to it being a huge big secret !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 24, 2018, 09:19:28 AM
This is where the South Birmingham changes are being kept due to it being a huge big secret !
You can just predict now the Mail going in all guns blazing when they finally do publish the changes... "National Express set to rip apart local Bus Network with just 3 weeks notice."
Quote from: V89MOA on June 24, 2018, 02:18:03 PM
You can just predict now the Mail going in all guns blazing when they finally do publish the changes... "National Express set to rip apart local Bus Network with just 3 weeks notice."
The Dudley consultation changes will be released before these ones at this rate ;)
It is appalling and I will be personally speaking to Bus Users UK for their comment.
Is it any wonder that passenger numbers have dropped from 319 million (2009/10) to 267 million (2015/16) with further anticipated drops for 16/17 and 17/18?
Wonder how many of the timetable leaflets will be available at the start?
Quote from: Westy on June 24, 2018, 09:44:21 PM
Wonder how many of the timetable leaflets will be available at the start?
We will be thankful if they are on the website at the start at this rate!
Quote from: Straightlines on June 24, 2018, 09:49:46 PM
We will be thankful if they are on the website at the start at this rate!
We should have a sweepstake on how many out-of-date timetables remain on display at certain 'don't tell us how to do our job' travel shops a month after such a big set of changes. I no longer bother trying to explain, I just remove them and chuck them in the recycling when I get home.
Quote from: Straightlines on June 24, 2018, 09:30:28 PM
It is appalling and I will be personally speaking to Bus Users UK for their comment.
Is it any wonder that passenger numbers have dropped from 319 million (2009/10) to 267 million (2015/16) with further anticipated drops for 16/17 and 17/18?
I agree with your comments. TFWM are equally to blame in my opinion for this debacle
Could the person that's dealing with the south Birmingham be of sick &that's why the changes haven't been put up yet
Quote from: Solo1 on June 26, 2018, 08:30:27 AM
Could the person that's dealing with the south Birmingham be of sick &that's why the changes haven't been put up yet
NX said a while ago they were going on the facebook page they are going to release the details of the changes at the start of July.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 14, 2018, 06:42:13 AM
National Express West Midlands have replied on their Facebook visitors section to someones enquiry that the South Birmingham changes will not be published until early July ........ yet the 10A new Lichfield extension is published now for the same start date, why ?
Presumably that is next week
@Solo1.
Quote from: 2206 on June 26, 2018, 08:32:52 AM
NX said a while ago they were going on the facebook page they are going to release the details of the changes at the start of July.
ok
Quote from: Solo1 on June 26, 2018, 08:30:27 AM
Could the person that's dealing with the south Birmingham be of sick &that's why the changes haven't been put up yet
You'd expect someone else to be step in............
Posters being put up at affected stops over the next week or so.
Quote from: Dom on June 26, 2018, 10:00:31 AM
Posters being put up at affected stops over the next week or so.
Generous of them!
You make it sound like some diversion or a bus stop closure, not that it could potentially affect people's livelihoods or anything...
Quote from: Straightlines on June 26, 2018, 10:37:17 AM
Generous of them!
You make it sound like some diversion or a bus stop closure, not that it could potentially affect people's livelihoods or anything...
What's the problem with telling people via posters on shelters?
Quote from: Tony on June 26, 2018, 11:20:22 AM
What's the problem with telling people via posters on shelters?
Nothing, I never said there was.
But I tell you what there is a problem with, the fact that it's 26 days away and the people of South Birmingham still do not have the faintest idea what's going on!
Quote from: Tony on June 26, 2018, 11:20:22 AM
What's the problem with telling people via posters on shelters?
Deforestation- think of all the paper used?? And with easy access to internet for all why not just put it on there?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on June 26, 2018, 12:06:03 PM
Deforestation- think of all the paper used?? And with easy access to internet for all why not just put it on there?
not every one can use a computer
Quote from: Solo1 on June 26, 2018, 12:07:53 PM
not every one can use a computer
Not everyone will own a computer and not everyone will be looking at the NX website/NX Facebook page
@Trident 4194.
People who use the routes will notice the notices at there stops while they are waiting for there bus.
I have no issues with the means by which the changes are communicated - it needs to be via website, notices on buses and shelters and / or leaflet drops through letterboxes. But NXWM haven't helped themselves with the timing of this - for such wholesale and disruptive change they should have let people know sooner.
Yesterday during pm peak I was on a 22 from town which was immediately behind a 23. Between the ICC and Harborne High St a lot of people let the 23 in front go, as it was the 22 they needed. In less than 4 weeks time those people will no longer be able to catch a direct bus home. They really should be given more than 3 weeks notice of that.
Quote from: Mike K on June 26, 2018, 12:53:41 PM
Yesterday during pm peak I was on a 22 from town which was immediately behind a 23. Between the ICC and Harborne High St a lot of people let the 23 in front go, as it was the 22 they needed. In less than 4 weeks time those people will no longer be able to catch a direct bus home. They really should be given more than 3 weeks notice of that.
Oh they'll be okay, there'll be a bus every 5 mins to Harborne after all...
The changes are now on the NX website.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/miscellaneous/new-usb-points
The 6A and 50A are being withdrawn as well.
The X22 says it will use the current X64 route from the QE/University to Birmingham.
What route would the other 2 use?
The X21 says:
"then continue along the same route as the current X64 to Edgbaston. It will then run a limited stop service into Birmingham"
The X20 says:
"A new limited stop service, the X20, will run from Cofton Hackett and Rednal along Bristol Road to QE Hospital / University and Birmingham city centre."
Also it mentions the X20 and X22 will be platinum. But it doesn't mention anything about the X21 being platinum, will that keep the B7RLE or will they go elsewhere?
Quote from: 2206 on June 26, 2018, 06:16:16 PM
The changes are now on the NX website.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/miscellaneous/new-usb-points
The 6A and 50A are being withdrawn as well.
So there will now be two totally different routes numbered X20 serving Birmingham City Centre. Which imbecile came up with that idea? Roll on franchising....
PN could have some to change the 246 into a more frequent single decker route? WA/WN/CV to withdraw more tridents or... allocate them to another BC route. Changes happening to the 48 but the 48A is not mentioned?
What a random location for the changes lol
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on June 26, 2018, 06:34:05 PM
PN could have some to change the 246 into a more frequent single decker route? WA/WN/CV to withdraw more tridents or... allocate them to another BC route. Changes heappening to the 48 but the 48A is not mentioned?
The 48A will more than likely remain as it is.
Link removed
Quote from: metrocity on June 26, 2018, 06:33:50 PM
So there will now be two totally different routes numbered X20 serving Birmingham City Centre. Which imbecile came up with that idea? Roll on franchising....
I mentioned before that we once had two 56's serving the city centre. Nobody wanted to go to Shard End and ended up in Bloxwhich or vice versa!
Well, those changes look just as dire as I anticipated. Also, why are the X20 and X22 using platinum buses and not the X21? Seems a bit weird really...
Quote from: Gareth on June 26, 2018, 06:44:14 PM
I mentioned before that we once had two 56's serving the city centre. Nobody wanted to go to Shard End and ended up in Bloxwhich or vice versa!
And the 115 which went from the same place in the city centre, but people coped. Not many people are a dumb as people on here make out they are
I'm personally not much impacted by these but the most surprising aspect for me is Weoley Castle. It's a big estate, and unless I'm missing something, only one 15 minute service to the city?
I like how they point out the positives and negatives with the '+' and '-' signs, but they've been very economical with the negatives. And "+ Harborne to Birmingham buses will now simply be numbered 23 / 24" as a positive is scraping the barrel. Since when was 23/24/29 complex?
I think the East Brum May have treated better lol, never thought I would say that. It is just. The beginning I suppose
So there will be two 20 minute services between QE Hospital/University & Birmingham and one every 15 minutes? ???, doesn't really make a combined frequency
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on June 26, 2018, 06:34:05 PM
PN could have some to change the 246 into a more frequent single decker route? WA/WN/CV to withdraw more tridents or... allocate them to another BC route. Changes happening to the 48 but the 48A is not mentioned?
If there's no listed changes to the 48A then there aren't any changes to the route in this consultation, I did mention this to you the other day. The 48A doesn't even enter South Birmingham
Quote from: Mike K on June 26, 2018, 07:32:25 PM
I'm personally not much impacted by these but the most surprising aspect for me is Weoley Castle. It's a big estate, and unless I'm missing something, only one 15 minute service to the city?
I like how they point out the positives and negatives with the '+' and '-' signs, but they've been very economical with the negatives. And "+ Harborne to Birmingham buses will now simply be numbered 23 / 24" as a positive is scraping the barrel. Since when was 23/24/29 complex?
Yep just the one route into City. For some reason serving Long Nuke Road now. Which will no doubt be run by overcrowded single deckers. 1 route into Northfield with the less regular 27. Igo rerouting the 39 to save NX's backsides with the 48. No link to Bartley Green. NX saying you can get the Diamond 002 instead. No link to Five Ways, Broad Street, Great Charles Street etc. Just further proof that they don't give a toss about this area really. No doubt I'll be told by people who don't even use these services that I'm wrong but I don't care.
And yes, that made me laugh too. Like 22/23/24/29 was ever hard to comprehend. Why not renumber the 47 to 44 then? And 61 to 64? Pathetic.
Quote from: metrocity on June 26, 2018, 06:33:50 PM
So there will now be two totally different routes numbered X20 serving Birmingham City Centre. Which imbecile came up with that idea? Roll on franchising....
Maybe not watch this space.
Johnson's rd one going then ？
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 26, 2018, 06:36:56 PM
What a random location for the changes lol
Looks like they put them up by mistake again.
As they've been taken down.
Quote from: 2206 on June 26, 2018, 08:20:51 PM
Looks like they put them up by mistake again.
As they've been taken down.
Yeah the link isn't working anymore. Probably realised they've posted them in the wrong section that's all.
Quote from: 2206 on June 26, 2018, 08:20:51 PM
Looks like they put them up by mistake again.
As they've been taken down.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 26, 2018, 08:22:18 PM
Yeah the link isn't working anymore. Probably realised they've posted them in the wrong section that's all.
I copied and pasted the text from there and posted an article on my website:
http://westmidlandsbususers.co.uk/2018/06/south-birmingham-service-changes-from-22nd-july-2018/
When NX finally publish the final draft, I'll update my article accordingly. ;D
Cheers, Stu!
Quote from: 2206 on June 26, 2018, 08:20:51 PM
Looks like they put them up by mistake again.
As they've been taken down.
You couldn't make this up...
Quote from: Mike K on June 26, 2018, 08:42:32 PM
You couldn't make this up...
NX are, as they go along...
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 26, 2018, 08:19:43 PM
Johnson's rd one going then ？
I wouldn't have thought so.
I mean these are draft proposals still & even at this late stage things could change hence nx not publishing yet.
Remember everyone wants to make sure they get things right.
Quote from: Steveminor on June 26, 2018, 08:59:01 PM
I wouldn't have thought so.
I mean these are draft proposals still & even at this late stage things could change hence nx not publishing yet.
Remember everyone wants to make sure they get things right.
Hasn't the route number X20 been registered though?
My original speculation of the 31 serving Redstone Farm Road rather than Pitmaston was correct. Pitmaston is a real joke.
Now the 61 is coming back would it mean that the Hybrid's will have their branding modified? To show 61/63 or 'Bristol Road' oh and fitting them with next stop announcements for the 61/63 wouldnt be bad...they still have 22/23 announcements programmed in!
I don't agree with there being ANOTHER X20 serving Birmingham in close correlation of the Johnsons X20. Fair play there was the two 56 routes, but the one only ran Mon-Sat daytimes and the other was just evenings and sundays only.
A new change I've just noticed is the withdrawal of the 6A. Fair play, never saw much point in that as people can easily change between the 5 and 6 along the Stratford Road vice versa.
The pointless X64 going is good sign, not really sure about the 98 though. But I don't all this curtailment to the 48, literally the route is serving the scraps of withdrawn routes.
The 37 been renumbered - can't wait for the confused users to realise their route is been renumbered so it can be 'simplified' = confusion.
Quote from: Jack on June 26, 2018, 09:36:32 PM
The 37 been renumbered - can't wait for the confused users to realise their route is been renumbered so it can be 'simplified' = confusion.
Perhaps they could do the same as what they did when they renumbered the 900 and 957.
And put Previously "New bus previously 37" on the side of the MMC to reduce any initial confusion.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23917561@N03/31581683152/in/photolist-Q7Lo7u-21Fk36n-UamaPk-D8Kg8Z-T4araX-Tfyvo8
The 48 isn't being curtailed (shortened), the current route is being withdrawn, it will instead follow the current 84 route to Hawkesley (an improvement from 1bph to 2bph) then then the 27 via West Heath to Northfield.
Quote from: Jack on June 26, 2018, 09:36:32 PM
The pointless X64 going is good sign, not really sure about the 98 though. But I don't all this curtailment to the 48, literally the route is serving the scraps of withdrawn routes.
It isn't! A bit like Doctor Who, it's coming back in yet another incarnation cunningly disguised as the X21. The route isn't much different.
This X20 duplication is ludicrous, it is a tourist route which will be googled by those unfamiliar with the area. Yes, to be fair, any tourist considering the Johnsons X20 to get to Stratford rather than the train has probably not thought it through, but why even introduce the possible confusion? How about - top of my head - X25?
Quote from: Mike K on June 26, 2018, 09:50:34 PM
It isn't! A bit like Doctor Who, it's coming back in yet another incarnation cunningly disguised as the X21. The route isn't much different.
The X20 doesn't appear to be much different from the 98 either, other than being limited stop along the Bristol Road South and replacing the X61 over that section.
Quote from: Stu on June 26, 2018, 08:27:37 PM
I copied and pasted the text from there and posted an article on my website:
http://westmidlandsbususers.co.uk/2018/06/south-birmingham-service-changes-from-22nd-july-2018/
When NX finally publish the final draft, I'll update my article accordingly. ;D
Well done
@Stu !
Nearly there... Third time lucky, NXWM might actually publish the completed version & finally leave it there!
Looks like the X61 Platinum's will be going on the X20 still serving the same areas with additional links & limited stop, Bristol Rd stopping services seem to have more buses with the 61/63 every 10 mins each
I think they need to remove 'New' from 'New Platinum Buses' quote
Quote from: cardew on June 26, 2018, 09:52:15 PM
This X20 duplication is ludicrous, it is a tourist route which will be googled by those unfamiliar with the area. Yes, to be fair, any tourist considering the Johnsons X20 to get to Stratford rather than the train has probably not thought it through, but why even introduce the possible confusion? How about - top of my head - X25?
Word on the street is that it won't be a problem for too much longer...
However, as of yet the X20 is still registered with no forthcoming change on DVSA then I do agree this is ludicrous and just sums up the complete brashness attitude National Express has taken towards this review.
Quote from: 2206 on June 26, 2018, 09:46:37 PM
Perhaps they could do the same as what they did when they renumbered the 900 and 957.
And put Previously "New bus previously 37" on the side of the MMC to reduce any initial confusion.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23917561@N03/31581683152/in/photolist-Q7Lo7u-21Fk36n-UamaPk-D8Kg8Z-T4araX-Tfyvo8
I think they should do that as well. Would mean a less confused number of users! They did the same for the 902/4/5/14.
Quote from: Mike K on June 26, 2018, 09:50:34 PM
It hasn't! A bit like Doctor Who, it's coming back in yet another incarnation cunningly disguised as the X21. The route isn't much different.
Eugh, you are right, the X64 will stay on, but does the new incarnation of the X64 seriously need an
'X'?!
I do wonder what route the 61/63 will do in city now it's been said Carrs Lane will no longer be served? Hopefully the new 4/A and 6 will share the 63 stop on Carrs Lane (the stop where the 37 use to terminate).
More and more computerised input maybe , who knows lol. The x20 is interesting
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 26, 2018, 10:01:01 PM
More and more computerised input maybe , who knows lol. The x20 is interesting
With two X20's it will certainly be interesting!
Quote from: Jack on June 26, 2018, 09:58:55 PM
Eugh, you are right, the X64 will stay on, but does the new incarnation of the X64 seriously need an 'X'?!
The X21 will be Limited Stop between the Uni and City...
Which routes will cover the current 98 and X64 between the hospital and Birmingham city centre?
I can see the X22 will but it's not clear if the X21 will. If it does then the service between the Hospital and city won't be coordinated.
It's also not clear if the X20 will use the vale per the current 98.
It's about time the changes are confirmed, published on-line & published in the local new papers over a couple of weeks / on the buses to give everyone young & old plenty of advanced warning. It won't be the management that have to face the fallout from the public......
Johnson's X20 seems to carry fresh air off peak mon to fri I have noticed
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on June 26, 2018, 10:23:55 PM
Johnson's X20 seems to carry fresh air off peak mon to fri I have noticed
My mom's friend who lives in Shirley caught it from the city centre recently. She was the only passenger until it reached Hall Green so i think you may be right.
Quote from: WMT3000 on June 26, 2018, 10:33:24 PM
My mom's friend who lives in Shirley caught it from the city centre recently. She was the only passenger until it reached Hall Green so i think you may be right.
The general belief is that it won't be going past Shirley for much longer, but as I say until we see any official confirmation it is mere speculation.
Was looking forward to the changes- more direct, efficient services from Weoley Castle to Birmingham and feel completely underwhelmed.
Not only have we lost 1 of the services from the square (29), the other which I was hoping would be sped up (x64 now the x21) looks as if all its doing is changing numbers!?!?! Don't buy this whole limited stop stuff from the Uni to Birmingham as it's hardly a heavily used section of route and usually flies past the stops anyways...
I guess I thought it'd be a little more creative. Hell, they've had a year
Why have some of the 'X' routes platinum and others not. Shoddy.
Give it 12 months before the 22 is back, and the 29, withdrawn and x21 loses its 'limited stop'....
They really could have made a difference here, but I don't think much has changed. Ah well - kept someone busy for 12 months.🙄
Oh - and what's actually more 'direct' about any of these? I'm confused!
Just read the consultation. Focused more on the South East area as it's more near me (1/2/3/4/4A/5/6/31). So basically I reckon NX will throw in the towel on the new 31 and it'll become a TfWM contracted route. 60 mins round trip, every 30 mins. I know atm the timetable say just over 30 mins, but you'll definitely be able to do it in 30 mins, as it'll carry less loads due to the fact that it's only going as far as Acocks Green. Same OAP clientele as the 30. It'll probably become a Diamond/igo route eventually. That's my prediction.
I've just realised that the bus I use most weeks, the 37 from Olton, is going from every 6 minutes to every 10 minutes as the 4. It's often full as it is at school times and peaks. Very disappointing.
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on June 26, 2018, 10:23:55 PM
Johnson's X20 seems to carry fresh air off peak mon to fri I have noticed
They're always empty on the Birmingham section, with only a few passengers on board.
A few years back, I caught a X20 from Stratford, it was full leaving Stratford but had emptied by the time it got to Henley In Arden/Hockley Heath and operated with just a few passengers back to Birmingham City Centre from there, not sure how many passengers that carries now though.
Most people going from Birmingham City Centre to Statford Upon Avon will just use the train, which is faster and more frequent than the X20
@SL 16 YPN
Quote from: Straightlines on June 26, 2018, 11:31:56 PM
The general belief is that it won't be going past Shirley for much longer, but as I say until we see any official confirmation it is mere speculation.
It appears to have been confirmed today - at least thats the X20 issue solved...
PD0000226/154 Registered
JOHNSONS (HENLEY) LTD
Route: Stratford upon Avon to Shirley Railway Station, Birmingham via Henley in Arden, Hockley Heath
Service number: 20 (X50)
Service type: Limited Stop, Normal Stopping
Effective date: 02 Sep 2018
Isn't X20 currently longest bus route originating from Birmingham City Centre? It would be sad to see it go.
Quote from: :D on June 27, 2018, 01:12:50 PM
Isn't X20 currently longest bus route originating from Birmingham City Centre? It would be sad to see it go.
It's either that or the 144, the 110 has to be up there too.
Quote from: StourValley98 on June 27, 2018, 02:51:09 PM
It's either that or the 144, the 110 has to be up there too.
Throw the 146 into that mix too. The X16 is fairly long.
Quote from: Jack on June 27, 2018, 03:38:34 PM
Throw the 146 into that mix too. The X16 is fairly long.
Does the 145 still go into Birmingham? Does it still exist?
Quote from: Sh4318 on June 27, 2018, 06:20:23 PM
Does the 145 still go into Birmingham? Does it still exist?
No the does not 145 go to Birmingham City Centre, it was curtailed in 2003.
The 145 is operated by Igo today (Rubery - Longbridge - Barnt Green - Aston Fields - Droitwitch).
http://www.igobuses.com/service/timetable.html?Service=29&Region=null
Some very interesting changes i must say.
The stop changes seem positive aswell. I can see these changes being an improvement if I'm honest.
Quote from: Dom on June 28, 2018, 03:24:56 PM
Some very interesting changes i must say.
I agree, I've just been reading them on the website.
(https://image.freepik.com/free-photo/laptop-with-blank-screen_1205-112.jpg)
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/misc/SouthBirminghamchangesMapforWeb.pdf
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/misc/SouthBirminghamChangesWeb.pdf
Do my eyes deceive me?!
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes
The X20/X22 and X21 timetables and maps are now on Traveline WM.
For the X20 and X22, the first stop is the Birmingham University and King Edwards Edgbaston School Gates on Pritchatts Road and they will have operated non stop from Bath Row, inbound Bath Row won't be served and they will operate non stop to Smallbrook Queensway.
Traveline WM also shows the X21 will continue to serve all stops to Birmingham City Centre outbound, inbound it appears Arthur Road and Bath Row are being made one way only stopping at Edgbaston Old Church then non stop to Smallbrook Queensway.
Why are they only serving Bath Row and Arthur Road in one direction? Congestion on Bath Row and Holloway Head inbound?
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_GEOOBJECT_REQUEST?language=en&command=bothDirections&line=cen:33X21:B:H:y11:5:5::1:2&hideBannerInfo=1&coordOutputFormat=MRCV
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_SELTT_REQUEST?language=en
"One bus stop on
Woodcock Lane will not be served. The nearest stops are at Weoley Castle Road (by Shenley
Lane)"
I struggle to see how looking at that map. And I ask again, why are the X20 and X22 being run by platinum buses but not the X21. And what route in town will they take?
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 28, 2018, 05:15:54 PM
And I ask again, why are the X20 and X22 being run by platinum buses but not the X21. And what route in town will they take?
I suspect it would be a case of not having enough platinums to cover all three X routes and the Harbornes, although if it means the heaps are staying on there then what a poor show... At the absolute least I should expect some to go in for Crimson shortly!
Quote from: V89MOA on June 28, 2018, 05:34:08 PM
I suspect it would be a case of not having enough platinums to cover all three X routes and the Harbornes, although if it means the heaps are staying on there then what a poor show... At the absolute least I should expect some to go in for Crimson shortly!
Surely not? Especially with the X61 losing it's platinums.
The 48 will be a rather long route, nearly 2 hours long in each direction as well.
West Bromwich Bus Station - 07:33.
Northfield, Bell Lane - 09:25.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&command=direct&net=cen&line=33048&sup=S&itdLPxx_direction=H&project=y11&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&itdLPxx_sessionID=CEN_EFA03_46534505&lineVer=9&itdLPxx_spTr=9&itdLPxx_operatorCodeForTTB=NXB
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 28, 2018, 05:39:25 PM
Surely not? Especially with the X61 losing it's platinums.
The X20 will probably eat up most of those on its own though.
Hang on, so what's gonna be Platinum operated?
6835-6840 & 6855-6892 are available, so 44 Platinum buses. Surely X20/21/22 can all be Platinum operated.
Are routes 23/24 going to be Platinum operated too?
The 23 and 24 seem to have a slightly unusual 9 minute frequency each for much of the day, 8 mins at peak times. Sunday and evening services are every 20 mins each, so the Harborne to city section goes from 8 to 6 buses an hour at these times.
Surprised to see the 23 no longer serving Adams Hill and its housing estates, and the nearest bus stop to KE Five Ways School is now Romsley Road.
None of these are mentioned in the 'negatives' in the promotional material. At least everyone can rejoice in the simplicity of only having to remember two route numbers.
Quote from: MW on June 28, 2018, 05:53:45 PM
Hang on, so what's gonna be Platinum operated?
6835-6840 & 6855-6892 are available, so 44 Platinum buses. Surely X20/21/22 can all be Platinum operated.
Are routes 23/24 going to be Platinum operated too?
According to the NX service changes page - https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/misc/SouthBirminghamChangesWeb.pdf .
The X20, X22, 23 and 24 will be platinum operated.
Quote from: V89MOA on June 28, 2018, 05:50:01 PM
The X20 will probably eat up most of those on its own though.
It won't be running as regularly aa the X61 and will probably interwork wih the X22...
Quote from: 2206 on June 28, 2018, 05:41:39 PM
The 48 will be a rather long route, nearly 2 hours long in each direction as well.
West Bromwich Bus Station - 07:33.
Northfield, Bell Lane - 09:25.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&command=direct&net=cen&line=33048&sup=S&itdLPxx_direction=H&project=y11&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&itdLPxx_sessionID=CEN_EFA03_46534505&lineVer=9&itdLPxx_spTr=9&itdLPxx_operatorCodeForTTB=NXB
I'm a little disappointed in the Sunday timetable, I was hoping the short journey would have been extended to at least the QE. Perhaps a 48A per hour replacing the 48E would be a better bet, you could easily change in Bearwood (for the 11) for Harborne.
Quote from: 2206 on June 28, 2018, 05:41:39 PM
The 48 will be a rather long route, nearly 2 hours long in each direction as well.
West Bromwich Bus Station - 07:33.
Northfield, Bell Lane - 09:25.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&command=direct&net=cen&line=33048&sup=S&itdLPxx_direction=H&project=y11&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&itdLPxx_sessionID=CEN_EFA03_46534505&lineVer=9&itdLPxx_spTr=9&itdLPxx_operatorCodeForTTB=NXB
I give this 6 months.
Just a couple of my thoughts on the new network.
48 and 27
Both routes now seem far to long and seem to just plug gaps left from the withdrawal of the 29 and parts of the 27. Whilst I think it makes sense to link the 48 and the 84 I would have probably kept it as running West Bromwich to Hawkesley only. Did they used to interwork about 10 years ago!
If the 27 suffers reliability issues I would have curtailed to run Northfield to QE Hospital only and then introduced a 3rd route (44 maybe) running Hawkesley to Harborne via the 27 route to Northfield and then as the 29 to Harborne with the new loop. I can't see many passengers using the 27 from the bournville side towards the QE. One bus an hour could run via Swarthmore Road
23 and X22
Simplification makes sense now I have seen it on the map. I would have perhaps kept the 23 as the 23A however so that Kitwell maintains its direct link to Harborne.
The X22 would then run from the Wood Lane terminus direct to Romsley Road and then follow the new route into Birmingham.
X21
Seems to make sense but would extend to Romsley Road to continue to link between Bartley Green and Weoley Castle.
1A
Good idea. Will provide a useful link from Acocks Green and Moseley to the QE
76
Extend the 76 to Weoley Castle via Gibbons Lane
X22 being run by Yardley wood according to the centre timetable or do peeps think that is an error ?
The new map clearly has the X20, X21, X22 routes going the same route from City to QE Hospital, BUT according to the Traveline maps the X20 and X22 go via Bristol Road and X21 goes via the X64/98 routes. So which is correct.
Also what the frequency for the 4 and 4A on Sunday daytime and late evenings ?
Anyone care to explain why the X21 isn't just a 21? What part of it is express? That will be far more confusing to passengers than having two routes with the same number, especially if they all go from the same stops in town as it looks like
I would be surprised if it was just the X21 going via the Vale. Especially as there is a very regular peak service along that corridor with the 98, 98E and X64s at present!
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 28, 2018, 07:13:26 PM
The new map clearly has the X20, X21, X22 routes going the same route from City to QE Hospital, BUT according to the Traveline maps the X20 and X22 go via Bristol Road and X21 goes via the X64/98 routes. So which is correct.
Also what the frequency for the 4 and 4A on Sunday daytime and late evenings ?
The NX website has them going via the same route but says they will be limited over that section.
According to Traveline WM, from where the stops are located on the map:
X20/X22 inbound would go non stop via Bristol Road to Smallbrook Queenswy, outbound via the current 98/X64 route from Bath Row via Wheeleys Road, Arthur Road and Edgbaston Park Road.
X21 would serve the current route to Edgbaston Old Church inbound then non stop via Wellington Road and Bristol Road to Smallbrook Queensway. Then Outbound as the current X64 route.
So according to Traveline WM (from where the stops are located on the maps) it appears they will only be serving Arthur Road and Bath Row in one direction.
Presumably that'd be because you can't go direct across from Bath Row to Wheeleys Street inbound and they currently have to go via Five Ways inbound and maybe perhaps because of congestion around Bath Row Holloway Head.
Quote from: Kevin on June 28, 2018, 07:15:11 PM
Anyone care to explain why the X21 isn't just a 21? What part of it is express? That will be far more confusing to passengers than having two routes with the same number, especially if they all go from the same stops in town as it looks like
According to Traveline WM -
Outbound Smallbrook Queensway to Edgbaston Old Church will be non stop.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 28, 2018, 06:26:21 PM
It won't be running as regularly aa the X61 and will probably interwork wih the X22...
It's still a longer route.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 28, 2018, 07:18:05 PM
I would be surprised if it was just the X21 going via the Vale. Especially as there is a very regular peak service along that corridor with the 98, 98E and X64s at present!
Maybe they'll put some deckers on there if it is?
Are all routes still going into QE Hospital?
Quote from: metrocity on June 28, 2018, 07:56:56 PM
Are all routes still going into QE Hospital?
No.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/qe-hospital-bus-stop-information
Only the 1A, 48, 76 and 244 are going into the QE now.
X20, X21 and X22 will stop at the University Station.
The 27 will stop close by on Metchley Lane
@metrocity
Quote from: V89MOA on June 28, 2018, 07:22:32 PM
It's still a longer route.
Not by much, especially as it won't be serving Rubery like the 98 did.
Quote from: sonic84 on June 28, 2018, 06:57:49 PM
76
Extend the 76 to Weoley Castle via Gibbons Lane
Why?
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 28, 2018, 08:03:53 PM
Not by much, especially as it won't be serving Rubery like the 98 did.
The 98 is irrelevant if the question is are the buses going to be ex X61s.
Don't forget it will take longer at the other end too going via the QE, especially at rush hour.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 28, 2018, 05:15:54 PM
"One bus stop on
Woodcock Lane will not be served. The nearest stops are at Weoley Castle Road (by Shenley
Lane)"
I struggle to see how looking at that map. And I ask again, why are the X20 and X22 being run by platinum buses but not the X21. And what route in town will they take?
In terms of PVRs, and these are rough and probably not accurate, I think the current 22/23 is in the region of 14 or 15 vehicles. The frequency of the 23 will see a slight overall reduction but the route will be slightly longer so the PVR is unlikely to change much. The 24 will be the same frequency and is a slightly shorter route so overall 23/24 PVR will likely be in late 20s.
There are currently 19 B7RLEs primarily for the 98/X64, with spares in the region of 16 might be needed for PVR. The X20 is likely to need similar to the 98, the X22 will probably need slightly less than the X64 as it's a shorter route.
So combined, that would be 40 odd vehicles, so the 44 Platinums including the ex X64 ones sounds about right to cover the 23/24 and X20/X22.
Looking at the NX map it looks like the 61 and 63 will be left to fend for themselves between City and Selly Oak as it looks like all of the X20 X21 X22 will serve University Stn and go along the exsisting 98 X64 route, this is a bit disappointing had hoped a Limited stop route would serve City - Belgrave Rd - Priory Rd to compliment the 61 and 63.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 28, 2018, 07:08:29 PM
X22 being run by Yardley wood according to the centre timetable or do peeps think that is an error ?
Looks like it interworks with the X20 in the evening so likely to be an error.
Hourly service on the X22 from 8pm.
It seems a shame not to include the x21 with the platinums- even from a branding perspective, it'll just look a little odd....
What types of buses will be used on the x21 and the 27? Anyone know?
Quote from: B.C Driver on June 28, 2018, 11:05:42 PM
Looking at the NX map it looks like the 61 and 63 will be left to fend for themselves between City and Selly Oak as it looks like all of the X20 X21 X22 will serve University Stn and go along the exsisting 98 X64 route, this is a bit disappointing had hoped a Limited stop route would serve City - Belgrave Rd - Priory Rd to compliment the 61 and 63.
The 144 is limited stop along that section so this already exists. Also, the traffic along there means really a regular limited stop service wouldn't be overly beneficial.
Quote from: j789 on June 29, 2018, 12:01:02 AM
The 144 is limited stop along that section so this already exists. Also, the traffic along there means really a regular limited stop service wouldn't be overly beneficial.
The 144 is useless to 95% of Bristol Road passengers though as they don't sell or accept Nbus and people are reluctant to pay twice. Even city bound most people just let them go now apart from OAPs. It's a shame because they do offer some cheap return tickets but hardly anyone is aware of them, or bothers to ask.
I notice from the info published that the 885 (King Edward's - Acocks Green/Solihull) is finishing. Does anyone have an idea when the service started? I know it was running early 90s from my own memory but it's difficult to find any info.
My views on the changes:
27 and 48
Both routes are too long, the 27 would be better running Maypole to Northfield only, it suffers from reliability now and this new route won't help it, I'd run a 25 from Northfield to Weoley Castle and Barnes Hill, then as 23/24 to City, it would be quicker than the present 29. Quinton Road could covered by an increased frequency on X22 to every 15 minutes. 48 will be bogged down by congestion on it's new long route, so I'd run the 48 from West Brom to QE Hospital only and run a 26 from QE Hospital to Northfield on the remaining part of the 48 route.
Quote from: V89MOA on June 28, 2018, 04:32:46 PM
Do my eyes deceive me?!
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes
Your F5 key will be happy!
Quote from: Dom on June 29, 2018, 06:51:36 AM
Your F5 key will be happy!
The Typical tfwm attitude there of missing the bigger picture.
So as far as I can see, Wheeleys Road gets no service anymore as all the X20/21/22 are quoted as being limited stop
Quote from: Kevin on June 29, 2018, 08:23:52 AM
So as far as I can see, Wheeleys Road gets no service anymore as all the X20/21/22 are quoted as being limited stop
I can see only a few people will be affected by that though, not many get on/off there.
X21 will still stop along there outbound, according to Traveline WM.
The stops along Bath Row, Holloway Head, Fredrick Road and St James Road inbound are near enough to the 80/A.
Carpenter Road is near enough to the X21 at the Edgbaston Old Church stop.
Only stop that'd realy be affected would be Gilldown Place (which is inbetween) inbound, to be honest when i've used them though only a few people get on/off there - still not to far of a walk from the Edgbaston Old Church stop for someone able, google maps says 9 minutes.
Quote from: WMT3000 on June 29, 2018, 01:34:18 AM
I notice from the info published that the 885 (King Edward's - Acocks Green/Solihull) is finishing. Does anyone have an idea when the service started? I know it was running early 90s from my own memory but it's difficult to find any info.
Its not finishing, it just the route number thats going the 1A will stop at King Edwards once a day and will be extended to Solihull once a day, it'll follow exactly the same route as the 885 currently does.
"+ More buses will serve Quinton Road, up to every 15 minutes to Birmingham (X22), up to every 20 minutes to Harborne (27)"
But the X22 is every 20 minutes? Do people actually proofread these things? It's not like they've had enough chances to do so...
Quote from: 2206 on June 29, 2018, 09:09:23 AM
I can see only a few people will be affected by that though, not many get on/off there.
X21 will still stop along there outbound, according to Traveline WM.
The stops along Bath Row, Holloway Head, Fredrick Road and St James Road inbound are near enough to the 80/A.
Carpenter Road is near enough to the X21 at the Edgbaston Old Church stop.
Only stop that'd realy be affected would be Gilldown Place (which is inbetween) inbound, to be honest when i've used them though only a few people get on/off there - still not to far of a walk from the Edgbaston Old Church stop for someone able, google maps says 9 minutes.
Its not finishing, it just the route number thats going the 1A will stop at King Edwards once a day and will be extended to Solihull once a day, it'll follow exactly the same route as the 885 currently does.
Thanks for the reply
@2206. I've seen the changes to the 1/1A so i realise there's still a service but i was wondering about the use of the actual route number.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/city-centre-bus-stop-information
Is there going to be enough space at Old Square for 5 routes?! Unless other routes like the 65/66/67 are moved I can't see that working well.
Looks like the 45/47 have been kicked off of Carrs Lane too.
Surely it would make some sort of sense to have the X20s share some stops with the 23/24 as opposed to the 61/63.
Quote from: 2206 on June 28, 2018, 05:41:39 PM
The 48 will be a rather long route, nearly 2 hours long in each direction as well.
West Bromwich Bus Station - 07:33.
Northfield, Bell Lane - 09:25.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&command=direct&net=cen&line=33048&sup=S&itdLPxx_direction=H&project=y11&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&itdLPxx_sessionID=CEN_EFA03_46534505&lineVer=9&itdLPxx_spTr=9&itdLPxx_operatorCodeForTTB=NXB
It's occurred to me that the 48 is so long that it fits in with both the 4x Sandwell route numbers at the West Brom end, and the South Birmingham 45, 47 and 49 at the Cotteridge and West Heath end.
Does that 2 hour journey time take account of the different time zones it passes through on its mammoth route?
Quote from: V89MOA on June 29, 2018, 12:58:53 AM
The 144 is useless to 95% of Bristol Road passengers though as they don't sell or accept Nbus and people are reluctant to pay twice. Even city bound most people just let them go now apart from OAPs. It's a shame because they do offer some cheap return tickets but hardly anyone is aware of them, or bothers to ask.
Not sure how often you use the 144 but as I regularly drive it I can tell you we do pick up a fair few paying passengers along that stretch. Also, prepaid nbus smart cards are excepted now and can be used to pay fares within the West mids county up to Leach green lane/Rubery. I doubt it will be long before all Centro type passes will be accepted again as it's clearly in everyone's interest to do so.
Quote from: j789 on June 29, 2018, 10:19:38 PM
Not sure how often you use the 144 but as I regularly drive it I can tell you we do pick up a fair few paying passengers along that stretch. Also, prepaid nbus smart cards are excepted now and can be used to pay fares within the West mids county up to Leach green lane/Rubery. I doubt it will be long before all Centro type passes will be accepted again as it's clearly in everyone's interest to do so.
Then there is part of the problem, I have used the 144 a few times within the last couple of months and had absolutely no idea any Network products were valid again... I haven't seen a single poster, sticker or message on the website about it. Seriously they should make an effort to get that message out there, especially as these changes are going to leave a good opportunity between Northfield, Selly Oak and Birmingham.
Quote from: Mike K on June 29, 2018, 10:16:47 PM
It's occurred to me that the 48 is so long that it fits in with both the 4x Sandwell route numbers at the West Brom end, and the South Birmingham 45, 47 and 49 at the Cotteridge and West Heath end.
Does that 2 hour journey time take account of the different time zones it passes through on its mammoth route?
I noticed this by looking at the South Birmingham route changes map.
I guess the route
kinda makes sense from a numbering point of view, it does create some new links, but the route is far too long, reliability will affect the 48A, as they both interwork.
Can't see it lasting
Quote from: V89MOA on June 29, 2018, 10:32:55 PM
Then there is part of the problem, I have used the 144 a few times within the last couple of months and had absolutely no idea any Network products were valid again... I haven't seen a single poster, sticker or message on the website about it. Seriously they should make an effort to get that message out there, especially as these changes are going to leave a good opportunity between Northfield, Selly Oak and Birmingham.
Regrettably, the 144 often seems to be never more than half full at the Birmingham end - especially at peak times where there seems to be very little usage in/out of the City end.
Let's hope the rebrand can spark some life into it, its going to need it with the forthcoming Bromsgrove electrics.
Posters now being stuck into bus stops.
Disappointingly they do not contain that much information in my opinion. Simply saying changes are happening and to check the website.
Quote from: Dom on June 30, 2018, 09:11:39 AM
Posters now being stuck into bus stops.
Disappointingly they do not contain that much information in my opinion. Simply saying changes are happening and to check the website.
When they've got a perfectly good map in that document they could use for posters...
Quote from: Dom on June 30, 2018, 09:11:39 AM
Posters now being stuck into bus stops.
Disappointingly they do not contain that much information in my opinion. Simply saying changes are happening and to check the website.
I suppose it's down to cost, rather than producing a number of more 'area-specific' posters with more detailed information on the changes (which would be my preference), it is no doubt cheaper to print one generic poster.
When I say 'area-specific', for example in Acocks Green, people don't necessarily need to read full details of changes to Northfield and Frankley services, but some details on changes in Acocks Green would be more useful, rather than "check the website".
Defeats the object of reaching those who don't live day by day using smartphones or the internet......
All of it seems a shambles, and I give some of the changes a maximum of 12 months.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on June 30, 2018, 11:07:35 AM
Defeats the object of reaching those who don't live day by day using smartphones or the internet......
All of it seems a shambles, and I give some of the changes a maximum of 12 months.
You say that like they'd actually admit they're wrong and go back on any decisions they make...
Look at the 52/A & even the X61, both decisions were reversed as they failed.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on June 30, 2018, 12:35:55 PM
Look at the 52/A & even the X61, both decisions were reversed as they failed.
The problem is when a decision is reversed, the damage is typically done and loadings will never recover to the levels prior to the original change
Quote from: metrocity on June 30, 2018, 01:08:30 PM
The problem is when a decision is reversed, the damage is typically done and loadings will never recover to the levels prior to the original change
Yep, and I reckon a lot of irreperable damage has been done with these changes.
Quote from: Dom on June 30, 2018, 09:11:39 AM
Posters now being stuck into bus stops.
Disappointingly they do not contain that much information in my opinion. Simply saying changes are happening and to check the website.
Just seen one in town
It's just an A4 poster, likely to get lost amongst other stuff and ignored, especially when you consider there's still posters up in places regarding service changes years ago
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 29, 2018, 02:17:34 PM
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/city-centre-bus-stop-information
Looks like the 45/47 have been kicked off of Carrs Lane too.
By the looks of it,all that's happened to them is the stop is closer to the shops on High Street and Bull Street.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 30, 2018, 01:11:09 PM
Yep, and I reckon a lot of irreperable damage has been done with these changes.
I've seen posts on a couple of websites bemoaning the lack of a service to the city centre from Shenley Lane. To me, that, Barnes Hill and the Alwold Road end of Weoley Castle are the biggest shocks to come out of the review. It's not like they're minor inconsequential areas where a link to the city would be a nice to have. It's a glaring omission.
It's a shame there's no viable competition to NX in Birmingham, as there would be a potential opportunity there for another operator in those areas.
And agree re the bus stop posters - just giving a link and telling you to read the website is no help at all to the likes of the elderly in particular.
Quote from: Mike K on June 30, 2018, 01:48:44 PM
I've seen posts on a couple of websites bemoaning the lack of a service to the city centre from Shenley Lane. To me, that, Barnes Hill and the Alwold Road end of Weoley Castle are the biggest shocks to come out of the review. It's not like they're minor inconsequential areas where a link to the city would be a nice to have. It's a glaring omission.
It's a shame there's no viable competition to NX in Birmingham, as there would be a potential opportunity there for another operator in those areas.
This is true but they clearly don't give a toss. Most of the complaints on the FB page have been about the 29 going. But as somebody said, there's no point filling out that form they keep suggesting towards as it's not like the decision will be reversed. Stretching out the X21 to Gregory Avenue to try and cover it is laughable.
I'd love someone like Diamond put on their own service like the 29 but sadly that won't happen. So it's like it or lump it.
Has Diamond or any other competing operator ever introduced a brand new route of their own, instead of shadowing NX?
(Not counting any routes they've taken over from NX!)
Here in Walsall, I can't think of any!
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 30, 2018, 01:11:09 PM
Yep, and I reckon a lot of irreperable damage has been done with these changes.
How on earth can you say that when the changes haven't even took place yet?
Quote from: Dom on June 30, 2018, 03:30:00 PM
How on earth can you say that when the changes haven't even took place yet?
And how can
you say anything when none of these changes affect you? Silly me, you know all don't you...
Quote from: markcf83 on June 30, 2018, 01:37:34 PM
By the looks of it,all that's happened to them is the stop is closer to the shops on High Street and Bull Street.
Yes, they're just being moved 2 stops up the road closer to the shops.
They'll stop at there old stop on the High Street outside Boots, before the stops around there were moved about last time.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 30, 2018, 03:36:07 PM
And how can you say anything when none of these changes affect you? Silly me, you know all don't you...
I haven't commented. I've simply said to you that at this moment in time you cannot judge half the changes, simply because they haven't happened and a majority are new routes.
Never have I said I know all either.
Quote from: Dom on June 30, 2018, 05:15:48 PM
I haven't commented. I've simply said to you that at this moment in time you cannot judge half the changes, simply because they haven't happened and a majority are new routes.
Never have I said I know all either.
Quote from: Dom on June 28, 2018, 03:24:56 PM
Some very interesting changes i must say.
The stop changes seem positive aswell. I can see these changes being an improvement if I'm honest.
There's your comment. How can you know if they'll be an improvement? I have my opinions, as you have yours.
No you haven't said it, but I can tell by the way you speak to people on this forum.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 30, 2018, 05:41:43 PM
There's your comment. How can you know if they'll be an improvement? I have my opinions, as you have yours.
No you haven't said it, but I can tell by the way you speak to people on this forum.
About stop changes in the city centre, a place I work most days....
Before this turns into an argument, yes, we all have our opinions, and we might not agree with the changes being made, or with other peoples' opinions on the matter, but keep discussions civilised please.
All I'll add to the discussion is: anyone remember the East Birmingham/North Solihull changes? A lot of people were unhappy with the changes being made at the time, and a lot of angry complaints were made. But guess what happened? People adapted to the changes, and got on with their lives.
The same thing will happen with these South Birmingham changes, I see a lot of the same comments "why do they keep changing things?", and "its not fair that (insert street name) no longer has a direct link to (insert area)" etc etc. People can either whine, moan or whinge about the changes (probably the same people who never bothered to take part in the consultation last year, or don't even use the services anyway!) or analyse, plan, and adapt to the changes that are forthcoming.
I recall one operator modifying one of their routes (Claribels?) to accomodate a road that had lost a bus service following lots of noisy complaints. Yet that was withdrawn a few months later due to lack of use.
And yes, I know that not everybody has access to the internet, and the information at bus stops is not very helpful, but we all have a duty to spread the word and make sure that people get informed that would not ordinarily be aware until the changes actually happen.
SO if you could all keep this polite and civilised, and stop the sniping at each other, that would be appreciated.
Quote from: Stu on June 30, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
I recall one operator modifying one of their routes (Claribels?) to accomodate a road that had lost a bus service following lots of noisy complaints. Yet that was withdrawn a few months later due to lack of use.
Yes it was claribels.
They rerouted their 71E service and renumbered it 71A to serve Berwicks Road, Coleshill Road and Station Road in the Marston Green/Chelmsley Wood area following the rerouting of the NX 72, which left those roads without a bus service and they also extended it to Kingshurst following the NX 71 being rerouted along the Chester Road due to complaints that Kingshurst would be left without a service to Solihull.
It was withdrawn just a few months later and claribels came of the Solihull to Chelmsley Wood corridor and went onto the tendered routes (600, 167 and 168) in the Erdington area.
The tendered hourly offpeak 91 service operated by Diamond (previously Central Buses) was rerouted to cover the loss of the 71A along Coleshill Road and Berwicks Lane.
With respect to the East Birmingham/North Solihull changes a lot of protests were made at the axing of the 59 route, but nothing has happened and no independents have come forward to run a replacement.
I've just noticed on the City Centre map (https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/city-centre-bus-stop-information) that it mentions that "all buses towards Stratford Road now run along Digbeth High Street and Camp Hill (instead of Bradford Street)" yet this is not mentioned in the changes to the 2 & 3 or 5?
Also with regard to the 5, while it mentions that Springfield Road will no longer be served and will use Showell Green Road instead, it is not clear exactly what route it will take inbetween. Will it use Yardley Wood Road, then Wake Green Road to Cole Bank Road, or will it continue along Yardley Wood Road (alongside the 2 and 3), then follow the 11A/C along Swanshurst Lane?
Quote from: Stu on June 30, 2018, 07:32:04 PM
I've just noticed on the City Centre map (https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/city-centre-bus-stop-information) that it mentions that "all buses towards Stratford Road now run along Digbeth High Street and Camp Hill (instead of Bradford Street)" yet this is not mentioned in the changes to the 2 & 3 or 5?
Also with regard to the 5, while it mentions that Springfield Road will no longer be served and will use Showell Green Road instead, it is not clear exactly what route it will take inbetween. Will it use Yardley Wood Road, then Wake Green Road to Cole Bank Road, or will it continue along Yardley Wood Road (alongside the 2 and 3), then follow the 11A/C along Swanshurst Lane?
The map on the website shows that it would use, Wake Green Road.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/misc/SouthBirminghamchangesMapforWeb.pdf
Quote from: Eric Shaw on June 30, 2018, 07:16:43 PM
With respect to the East Birmingham/North Solihull changes a lot of protests were made at the axing of the 59 route, but nothing has happened and no independents have come forward to run a replacement.
Which suggests that a replacement wasn't needed! igo did to be fair extend their 99 service from Lea Village to Chester Road (Morrisons Castle Bromwich) to replace that part, but I couldn't tell you how well it is used.
I did personally need to travel to Shard End the other week, but used the 11A and 55, I don't think it took much longer from Swan Island than it would have done if the 59 was still running.
Quote from: Mike K on June 30, 2018, 01:48:44 PM
I've seen posts on a couple of websites bemoaning the lack of a service to the city centre from Shenley Lane. To me, that, Barnes Hill and the Alwold Road end of Weoley Castle are the biggest shocks to come out of the review. It's not like they're minor inconsequential areas where a link to the city would be a nice to have. It's a glaring omission.
It's a shame there's no viable competition to NX in Birmingham, as there would be a potential opportunity there for another operator in those areas.
And agree re the bus stop posters - just giving a link and telling you to read the website is no help at all to the likes of the elderly in particular.
Completely agree!!! Even if it missed out Weoley Castle and went Northfield > Shenley Lane > Barnes Hill then 23 route to City...
Quote from: 2206 on June 30, 2018, 07:35:48 PM
The map on the website shows that it would use, Wake Green Road.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/misc/SouthBirminghamchangesMapforWeb.pdf
Thanks, that part of Wake Green Road is not currently served by any bus route, so there you have another potential set of complaints from residents unhappy that there WILL be buses serving their road! :D
Wonder if any new stops will be put up along there?
Well obviously we will adapt and get on with our lives but this forum is about discussing these things nonetheless, no? Besides, the adaping you speak of will most likely see many seek other travel arrangements than NX.
Quote from: MasterPlan on June 30, 2018, 08:23:47 PM
Well obviously we will adapt and get on with our lives but this forum is about discussing these things nonetheless, no?
I agree, but keep the discussions civil, and the debate lively, without resorting to attacking and insulting other members.
Quote from: Stu on June 30, 2018, 08:40:35 PM
I agree, but keep the discussions civil, and the debate lively, without resorting to attacking and insulting other members.
That's fair enough and I will.
Back to the topic. Does anybody know the exact reason why the X61 has changed back to the 61? I can't believe it 'failed' in all honesty.
Quote from: Stu on June 30, 2018, 07:32:04 PM
I've just noticed on the City Centre map (https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/city-centre-bus-stop-information) that it mentions that "all buses towards Stratford Road now run along Digbeth High Street and Camp Hill (instead of Bradford Street)" yet this is not mentioned in the changes to the 2 & 3 or 5?
Also with regard to the 5, while it mentions that Springfield Road will no longer be served and will use Showell Green Road instead, it is not clear exactly what route it will take inbetween. Will it use Yardley Wood Road, then Wake Green Road to Cole Bank Road, or will it continue along Yardley Wood Road (alongside the 2 and 3), then follow the 11A/C along Swanshurst Lane?
Yes ... I wouldn't be surprised about using Digbeth instead of Bradford Street, as from city the turn into Rea Street can take a while at busy times - not least because of the bus stop in Rea Street.
The South Birmingham map indicates that the 5 will use Yardley Wood Road then Wake Green Road to Cole Bank Road.
Quote from: Stu on June 30, 2018, 08:06:45 PM
Thanks, that part of Wake Green Road is not currently served by any bus route, so there you have another potential set of complaints from residents unhappy that there WILL be buses serving their road! :D
Wonder if any new stops will be put up along there?
That part of Wake Green Road has never had a bus service, and there's some properties down there with a fairly hefty price tag.
And that's the first I've heard about 2/3/4 not serving Bradford Street too. Leaves that to the 50 only then.
Quote from: Stu on June 30, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
Before this turns into an argument, yes, we all have our opinions, and we might not agree with the changes being made, or with other peoples' opinions on the matter, but keep discussions civilised please.
All I'll add to the discussion is: anyone remember the East Birmingham/North Solihull changes? A lot of people were unhappy with the changes being made at the time, and a lot of angry complaints were made. But guess what happened? People adapted to the changes, and got on with their lives.
The same thing will happen with these South Birmingham changes, I see a lot of the same comments "why do they keep changing things?", and "its not fair that (insert street name) no longer has a direct link to (insert area)" etc etc. People can either whine, moan or whinge about the changes (probably the same people who never bothered to take part in the consultation last year, or don't even use the services anyway!) or analyse, plan, and adapt to the changes that are forthcoming.
I recall one operator modifying one of their routes (Claribels?) to accomodate a road that had lost a bus service following lots of noisy complaints. Yet that was withdrawn a few months later due to lack of use.
And yes, I know that not everybody has access to the internet, and the information at bus stops is not very helpful, but we all have a duty to spread the word and make sure that people get informed that would not ordinarily be aware until the changes actually happen.
SO if you could all keep this polite and civilised, and stop the sniping at each other, that would be appreciated.
Stu, to address your points in turn:
I fully agree with keeping things civil.
As regards your other points:
Of course people adapt to the changes, what other option do they have? Adapting can mean, for some people, using the car instead and paying through the nose for car parking, using Uber instead, driving to a station and taking a train from there, or catching 2 buses to work even though they only live 5 miles from Birmingham centre. But most people have no choice but to get to work somehow. They have to adapt but that doesn't mean they like it.
The people who have been most vocal in their displeasure at these changes on this forum (there are 3 or 4 of us), from what I gather all live around the Harborne / California / Weoley areas impacted by the changes and all use our local services. I suspect we all contributed to the consultation - I certainly did, not that any of my suggestions were implemented (I never expected they would) - but to suggest the people 'whining' didn't contribute or don't use the services impacted is possibly wide of the mark.
I personally am not that affected, a slight reduction in frequency in my local route at the times that I use it, a 25% reduction in the evenings and Sundays when I rarely use it, but I know people and have relatives in the vicinity who are far more severely impacted.
As regards other operators amending their routes to cover roads or areas no longer served by NX: NX have an almost compete monopoly in Birmingham, and lots of people have NX passes. It's not like most people can just decide to switch to a competitor's route, or (in the case of the South Birmingham review), that the alternative route is particularly helpful. To use an example in the South Birmingham review, it states that much of Simmons Drive will no longer be served by the 24, but instead Simmons Drive will be served by changes to the 10/10H/10S. Absolutely bugger all help to most people, these routes operate at a fraction of the frequency of the 24, or take an eternity to get to the city (10H).
And no, we don't all have a duty to spread the word about these changes. We are not disciples of NX, the company should be capable of spreading its own bad news through the appropriate media and on a timely basis.
Quote from: Mike K on July 01, 2018, 12:02:56 AM
As regards your other points:
Of course people adapt to the changes, what other option do they have? Adapting can mean, for some people, using the car instead and paying through the nose for car parking, using Uber instead, driving to a station and taking a train from there, or catching 2 buses to work even though they only live 5 miles from Birmingham centre. But most people have no choice but to get to work somehow. They have to adapt but that doesn't mean they like it.
Most, more than likely won't own a car, hence why they are using the bus in the first place.
The bus is generally much cheaper than a taxi.
Plus not everyone will have a train station local to them.
So there will more than likely be many, who don't have an alternative method of transport, other than to adapt to the changes.
Quote from: Mike K on July 01, 2018, 12:02:56 AM
As regards other operators amending their routes to cover roads or areas no longer served by NX: NX have an almost compete monopoly in Birmingham, and lots of people have NX passes. It's not like most people can just decide to switch to a competitor's route, or (in the case of the South Birmingham review), that the alternative route is particularly helpful. To use an example in the South Birmingham review, it states that much of Simmons Drive will no longer be served by the 24, but instead Simmons Drive will be served by changes to the 10/10H/10S. Absolutely bugger all help to most people, these routes operate at a fraction of the frequency of the 24, or take an eternity to get to the city (10H).
The Claribels service was modified following complaints and would have been a direct replacement to the 71 and 72 (and would have followed just about the same route).
Pretty frequent and direct, yet nobody used it and it was withdrawn a few months later due to a lack of use, so the people complaining in Marston Green/Chelmsley Wood/Kingshurst can't have needed a direct bus route to Solihull
that much.
The N Bus pass is only a few pounds more so they could just cancel the NX Pass and get a N Bus pass if they wanted to.
The East Birmingham Changes weren't to bad in my opinion and there were some complaints online and some links were lost.
Though, I remember hearing a few positive comments about the X12, one day I used it, not long after it started .
With the X21 terminus at Woodcock Hill and the 63 moved to Crompton Road I wonder whether we will see the destination display showing Bangham Pit and Gannow again :-)
Quote from: sonic84 on July 01, 2018, 08:59:52 AM
With the X21 terminus at Woodcock Hill and the 63 moved to Crompton Road I wonder whether we will see the destination display showing Bangham Pit and Gannow again :-)
Was Woodcock Hill the old 21E terminus? I can't remember!
Also, I thought it was the 61 that displayed Gannow previously?
Quote from: 2206 on July 01, 2018, 08:56:30 AM
Most, more than likely won't own a car, hence why they are using the bus in the first place.
The bus is generally much cheaper than a taxi.
Plus not everyone will have a train station local to them.
So there will more than likely be many, who don't have an alternative method of transport, other than to adapt to the changes.
The Claribels service was modified following complaints and would have been a direct replacement to the 71 and 72 (and would have followed just about the same route).
Pretty frequent and direct, yet nobody used it and it was withdrawn a few months later due to a lack of use, so the people complaining in Marston Green/Chelmsley Wood/Kingshurst can't have needed a direct bus route to Solihull
that much.
The N Bus pass is only a few pounds more so they could just cancel the NX Pass and get a N Bus pass if they wanted to.
The East Birmingham Changes weren't to bad in my opinion and there were some complaints online and some links were lost.
Though, I remember hearing a few positive comments about the X12, one day I used it, not long after it started .
I disagree With this about the nbus. Why should these people have to pay a few £ extra each month? In that area of Birmingham nx have a monopoly so is it worth paying an extra few £ just to use one service. Furthermore did claribels market the route well enough?
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 01, 2018, 10:01:36 AM
Was Woodcock Hill the old 21E terminus? I can't remember!
Also, I thought it was the 61 that displayed Gannow previously?
The old 21 Bangham Pit terminus was a short distance away at the junction of Moors Lane and Genners Lane, by Bartley Reservoir. The bus lay-by is still there - buses turned around using the small 'island' that is at the intersection of the two roads.
Quote from: Mike K on July 01, 2018, 10:10:39 AM
The old 21 Bangham Pit terminus was a short distance away at the junction of Moors Lane and Genners Lane, by Bartley Reservoir. The bus lay-by is still there - buses turned around using the small 'island' that is at the intersection of the two roads.
The one by Newman University?
Quote from: Mike K on July 01, 2018, 10:10:39 AM
The old 21 Bangham Pit terminus was a short distance away at the junction of Moors Lane and Genners Lane, by Bartley Reservoir. The bus lay-by is still there - buses turned around using the small 'island' that is at the intersection of the two roads.
Ah yeah I know where you mean. Yeah it's still there, the 18 goes around it I believe.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 01, 2018, 10:08:38 AM
I disagree With this about the nbus. Why should these people have to pay a few £ extra each month? In that area of Birmingham nx have a monopoly so is it worth paying an extra few £ just to use one service. Furthermore did claribels market the route well enough?
East Birmingham changes were good in my opinion. Those who moaned about the changes didn't use other operators buses when they were rerouted to cover for NXWM changes.. This proves NXWM were right to implement changes.
Bus companies are there to make money not to run routes at a loss.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 01, 2018, 10:01:36 AM
Also, I thought it was the 61 that displayed Gannow previously?
@MasterPlan, yes many years ago before the 61 was re-routed to serve Great Park & before being curtailed back to Holly Lane, the 61 & the old 963 (64) terminated at Gannow by the Lickey Banker IIRC
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 01, 2018, 10:01:36 AM
Was Woodcock Hill the old 21E terminus? I can't remember!
Also, I thought it was the 61 that displayed Gannow previously?
I'm sure I remember seeing them on Corporation Street with 61 Gannow on the display -
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hhhumber/3309973512/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/30379081182/in/photolist-sMMUrW-cAj3t1-NhuJrL
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcw1987/16805437683/
Quote from: 2206 on July 01, 2018, 01:03:25 PM
I'm sure I remember seeing them on Corporation Street with 61 Gannow on the display -
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hhhumber/3309973512/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/30379081182/in/photolist-sMMUrW-cAj3t1-NhuJrL
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcw1987/16805437683/
Yes it was the 61 which terminated at Gannow until October 2009 when it was extended to Rubery Great Park. By July 2010 the terminus was amended to Frankley Arden Road.
Quote from: 2206 on July 01, 2018, 01:03:25 PM
I'm sure I remember seeing them on Corporation Street with 61 Gannow on the display -
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hhhumber/3309973512/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/30379081182/in/photolist-sMMUrW-cAj3t1-NhuJrL
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcw1987/16805437683/
The timetable for the 1 and 1A is now online, the strange thing is that the 1 and 1A combine to provide a bus every 10 minutes on Monday to Friday and ALSO Sundays, but only every 15 minutes on Saturdays, could it be that they've got Saturday and Sunday the wrong way around !
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/SouthBirminghamNewTimetables/B001_22Jul18.pdf
Love how the 61 has the same late night running time (32 mins) as the X61. Difficult to do it on time as a limited stop route nevermind full stopping.
Quote from: Dom on July 02, 2018, 12:45:32 PM
Love how the 61 has the same late night running time (32 mins) as the X61. Difficult to do it on time as a limited stop route nevermind full stopping.
That doesnt make sense. I still think the X61 should have been given an extra chance, it needed more buses during daytimes, every 15 mins during peak times from city wasnt good enough, and using the bypass at Selly Oak didnt help as the 63 would often beat the X61 and it seperated the two routes for most of Selly Oak which didnt help passengers.
Quote from: B.C Driver on July 02, 2018, 02:55:11 PM
That doesnt make sense. I still think the X61 should have been given an extra chance, it needed more buses during daytimes, every 15 mins during peak times from city wasnt good enough, and using the bypass at Selly Oak didnt help as the 63 would often beat the X61 and it seperated the two routes for most of Selly Oak which didnt help passengers.
100% agree! The X61 on paper is a successful route but the lack of frequency killed it. I agree with Selly Oak, using that bypass can be worse than going up the high street. Especially at the moment with the road works at the bottom of Selly Oak. Partly down to the refusal to divert the X61 the same way as the 63 just because of it missing 1 stop (Aston Webb Boulevard). Noticed also how the 61 is serving Selly Oak.
It was destined to fail just by the lack of commitment shown to the route.
Quote from: Dom on July 02, 2018, 04:10:04 PM
100% agree! The X61 on paper is a successful route but the lack of frequency killed it.....
It was destined to fail just by the lack of commitment shown to the route.
I think it's fair to say that also the poor frequency of the remaining all stops service didn't help, 63 should have had more buses at least to Northfield
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 02, 2018, 11:35:01 AM
The timetable for the 1 and 1A is now online, the strange thing is that the 1 and 1A combine to provide a bus every 10 minutes on Monday to Friday and ALSO Sundays, but only every 15 minutes on Saturdays, could it be that they've got Saturday and Sunday the wrong way around !
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/SouthBirminghamNewTimetables/B001_22Jul18.pdf
It says the 1A will go via the Bristol Road to the QE. I don't know that route all that well but can't it just go left at Church Road onto Edgbaston Park Road and join the X20s?
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 02, 2018, 05:34:36 PM
It says the 1A will go via the Bristol Road to the QE. I don't know that route all that well but can't it just go left at Church Road onto Edgbaston Park Road and join the X20s?
No, because the 1 is terminating there it will be using the Bus Station to turn around. The X20 is passing through so will go up the other side
Quote from: Tony on July 02, 2018, 05:43:29 PM
No, because the 1 is terminating there it will be using the Bus Station to turn around. The X20 is passing through so will go up the other side
Yeah I know that but it could still get to the QE that way like the 98 and X64 do now. Or is the Bristol Road quicker?
Quote from: Tony on July 02, 2018, 05:43:29 PM
No, because the 1 is terminating there it will be using the Bus Station to turn around. The X20 is passing through so will go up the other side
But he's asking why it couldn't turn left at Edgbaston Old Church (not the QE), and serve Edgbaston Park Road instead of the Bristol Road.
I suspect that the reason is that coming from the QE, at the junction of Church Rd/Edgbaston Park Road there is no right hand turn allowed. My more cynical view is that this would be a better routing as being nearer towards Five Ways. How a 20 minute frequency to Five Ways in Peak Periods is considered enough, with schools and businesses will remain to be seen.
How the QE terminal point will work with more buses using it is also likely to lead to delays.
Quote from: 2206 on July 02, 2018, 05:51:42 PM
But he's asking why it couldn't turn left at Edgbaston Old Church (not the QE), and serve Edgbaston Park Road instead of the Bristol Road.
Yeah that's what I meant.
Quote from: RobQuinton on July 02, 2018, 05:56:35 PM
I suspect that the reason is that coming from the QE, at the junction of Church Rd/Edgbaston Park Road there is no right hand turn allowed. My more cynical view is that this would be a better routing as being nearer towards Five Ways. How a 20 minute frequency to Five Ways in Peak Periods is considered enough, with schools and businesses will remain to be seen.
How the QE terminal point will work with more buses using it is also likely to lead to delays.
I thought that it could be that (i've seen the no right hand turn sign on some of the traffic lights round there in the past), but looking at the timetable on Traveline WM it seems to show the X21 will turn right of Edgbaston Park Road onto Church Road going towards the City Centre?
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_GEOOBJECT_REQUEST?language=en&command=bothDirections&line=cen:33X21:B:H:y11:5:5::1:2&hideBannerInfo=1&coordOutputFormat=MRCV
Also:
Google Maps shows that you can turn right of Edgbaston Park Road onto Church Road
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/52.4596621,-1.9227762/52.4611488,-1.9170401/@52.4605149,-1.9221005,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!4m1!3e0
Unlike the other right hand turns there.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Edgbaston+Old+Church,+Birmingham+B15+3TB/52.4617504,-1.9182596/@52.4631826,-1.9240497,16z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x4870bc4f8f867271:0xcceb59770a7285eb!2m2!1d-1.917678!2d52.461044!1m0!3e0
The traffic light on Edgbaston Park Road doesn't seem to have the no right hand turn sign.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4610958,-1.9189518,3a,75y,12.3h,76.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sahAj5goju3p4WG2mJLrYPA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I'm sure i've seen cars and a Johnsons Coach turn right there in the past as well.
U can definitely turn right from the QE at that junction. I have done it many a time.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 02, 2018, 05:50:56 PM
Yeah I know that but it could still get to the QE that way like the 98 and X64 do now. Or is the Bristol Road quicker?
Why though.
People up there have got the X21 to the hospital. People on Bristol Road will have a service this way as well
Quote from: RobQuinton on July 02, 2018, 05:56:35 PM
How the QE terminal point will work with more buses using it is also likely to lead to delays.
There won't be more buses using it
@RobQuinton .
The 244, 1A, 48 and 76 will use the stops outside the QE.
Buses to/from the City Centre - the X20, X21 and X22 will use the stops outside the University Station - round the corner.
With the 27 also stopping close by on Metchley Lane.
Quote from: Kevin on July 02, 2018, 04:23:22 PM
I think it's fair to say that also the poor frequency of the remaining all stops service didn't help, 63 should have had more buses at least to Northfield
I think the frequency is okay, its the reliability that's been the issue but with the amount of roadworks which have caused considerable delays pretty much since the X61 was introduced, its been fighting a loosing battle.
Regarding Selly Oak, if they were so keen to avoid Selly Oak they'd need to make it worth while by possibly sending it up to the QE. This would've provided quicker links to the QE from Northfield and a link to the QE from Frankly and Balaam Wood and the Bristol Road. That would've then made it worth while instead of taking a bypass that actually takes longer.
Quote from: 2206 on July 02, 2018, 07:03:05 PM
There won't be more buses using it @RobQuinton .
The 244, 1A, 48 and 76 will use the stops outside the QE.
Buses to the City Centre - the X20, X21 and X22 will use the stops outside the University Station - round the corner.
With the 27 also stopping close by on Metchley Lane.
Having seen the layout in action (more like inaction) and having been stuck on buses going that way during peak times until the city council and hospital authorities sort out the main entrance layout to make it easier for buses this makes perfect sense.
The 4A is more frequent than I expected on Sundays - every 15 minutes along with the 4 - interestingly Sunday and evening journeys are extended to Robin Hood Island
The 31 timetable has surprised me, I didn't think there would be a Sunday service, especially at the same frequency as the Mon-Sat
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 02, 2018, 11:35:01 AM
The timetable for the 1 and 1A is now online, the strange thing is that the 1 and 1A combine to provide a bus every 10 minutes on Monday to Friday and ALSO Sundays, but only every 15 minutes on Saturdays, could it be that they've got Saturday and Sunday the wrong way around !
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/SouthBirminghamNewTimetables/B001_22Jul18.pdf
The 1 & 1A are every 40 minutes individually. I made that mistake at first. Personally I thought the 1 would be 2 per hour, with a 1A every hour to make an 20 minute frequency
Quote from: 2206 on July 02, 2018, 06:09:50 PM
I thought that it could be that (i've seen the no right hand turn sign on some of the traffic lights round there in the past), but looking at the timetable on Traveline WM it seems to show the X21 will turn right of Edgbaston Park Road onto Church Road going towards the City Centre?
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_GEOOBJECT_REQUEST?language=en&command=bothDirections&line=cen:33X21:B:H:y11:5:5::1:2&hideBannerInfo=1&coordOutputFormat=MRCV
That looks a bit weird to me. Why would it go a different way into the City than it does outbound? Is this the definite route? When will the exact routes be out on the NX website as when you search X21 0 results come up.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 02, 2018, 07:07:40 PM
That looks a bit weird to me. Why would it go a different way into the City than it does outbound? Is this the definite route? When will the exact routes be out on the NX website as when you search X21 0 results come up.
It makes sense a bit due to the one way system around there, as they can't go direct across from Wheeleys Road onto Bath Row towards the City Centre, so you can't go via Arthur Road, without going via Five Ways. The 98 and X64 currently go via Five Ways.
So it seems instead of going round Five Ways they're only serving Arthur Road and Wheeleys Road in one direction and in the other going down Wellington Road and Bristol Road direct.
The X20/X22 route maps are similar serving Bath Row in one direction only.
It seems to be the route they'd take unless there's a mistake with it?
Quote from: 2206 on July 02, 2018, 07:11:53 PM
It makes sense a bit due to the one way system around there, as they can't go direct across from Wheeleys Road onto Bath Row towards the City Centre. The 98 and X64 currently go via Five Ways.
So it seems instead of going round Five Ways they're going down Wellington Road and Bristol Road direct.
It seems to be the route they'd take unless there's a mistake with it?
It doesn't serve Bath Row in bound though, according to that map. Also, why is the X21 the only one out of the 3 serving The Vale? With the other two going via the Bristol Road? The amount of comments I've seen on here talking about the importance of links to the Uni, and maintaining the 10 minute frequency, to then reduce it to 15 mins would be a bit weird.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 02, 2018, 07:07:40 PM
That looks a bit weird to me. Why would it go a different way into the City than it does outbound? Is this the definite route? When will the exact routes be out on the NX website as when you search X21 0 results come up.
The X20/X22 being limited stop can vary their route depending on traffic
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 02, 2018, 07:17:14 PM
It doesn't serve Bath Row in bound though, according to that map. Also, why is the X21 the only one out of the 3 serving The Vale? With the other two going via the Bristol Road? The amount of comments I've seen on here talking about the importance of links to the Uni, and maintaining the 10 minute frequency, to then reduce it to 15 mins would be a bit weird.
That's what I thought as well. There have been so many comments about the QE to City being the busiest part of the route I am surprised they are not only reducing the frequency but that Five Ways looks as if they will no longer have a direct link to the QE.
Quote from: sonic84 on July 02, 2018, 07:40:53 PM
That's what I thought as well. There have been so many comments about the QE to City being the busiest part of the route I am surprised they are not only reducing the frequency but that Five Ways looks as if they will no longer have a direct link to the QE.
A link will remain:
The offpeak 10H operates between the QE and Five Ways.
Stops outside Five Ways shopping Centre towards the QE and just up the road form Morrisons on Highfield Road from the QE.
Though I agree
@MasterPlan it most likely won't be much of a replacement and very useful for many.
Quote from: 2206 on July 02, 2018, 07:44:09 PM
A link will remain:
The offpeak 10H operates between the QE and Five Ways.
Stops outside Five Ways shopping Centre towards the QE and just up the road form Morrisons on Highfield Road from the QE.
Not really much of a replacement though is it.
My views on some of the South Birmingham Changes:
1 and 1A
The 1A could be successful but if it is there could be more buses needed in peaks on the 1 particularly if good numbers are carried from the QE end of the 1A.
4, 4A, 6 and 31
The 4 and 4A is the big surprise for me here, particularly with the 15 minute frequency in the evenings and 7-8 minutes on Sundays!
The downside is that with the 31 not running on Stratford Road I expected the 6 to be every 20 minutes after 9PM, but it's only every 30 minutes so will it struggle.
X22
I'm wondering if the X22 could be the real winner here, if it works out then passengers from California, Kitwell and Bartley Green might use it a lot possibly leading to and increased frequency in the future.
27 and 48
Both routes are too long especially the 48 and reliability could play a big part, in my opinion the new section of the 48 route should have been a separate route. The 27 is a strange one and one to watch.
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 02, 2018, 07:06:59 PM
The 1 & 1A are every 40 minutes individually. I made that mistake at first. Personally I thought the 1 would be 2 per hour, with a 1A every hour to make an 20 minute frequency
That caught me out too. Not a fan of 40 min frequencies, trying to work out what minutes past the hour the bus will be dependent on which hour it is. Appreciate it's only the end of the route but confusing nonetheless.
Quote from: Mike K on July 02, 2018, 09:34:04 PM
That caught me out too. Not a fan of 40 min frequencies, trying to work out what minutes past the hour the bus will be dependent on which hour it is. Appreciate it's only the end of the route but confusing nonetheless.
Oh they haven't have they? Ffs those sort of frequencies are no use to anyone
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 02, 2018, 07:06:59 PM
... interestingly Sunday and evening 4A journeys are extended to Robin Hood Island
The 31 timetable has surprised me, I didn't think there would be a Sunday service, especially at the same frequency as the Mon-Sat
And what is especially strange is that it is surely superfluous to have Sunday daytime 4A journeys extending to Robin Hood Island when there is a Sunday 31 timetable provided.
Quote from: Kevin on July 02, 2018, 10:41:24 PM
Oh they haven't have they? Ffs those sort of frequencies are no use to anyone
I'm not a fan of 40 minute frequencies either. I don't think they do much for building patronage. Didn't nxwm alter the 297 to a 40 minute frequency at one point and then it was withdrawn shortly after.
Luckily it is only on a Sunday!
Quote from: 2206 on July 02, 2018, 07:44:09 PM
A link will remain:
The offpeak 10H operates between the QE and Five Ways.
Stops outside Five Ways shopping Centre towards the QE and just up the road form Morrisons on Highfield Road from the QE.
Though I agree @MasterPlan it most likely won't be much of a replacement and very useful for many.
Most people would not see this a viable alternative I'm afraid. I'm not even sure that many away from this forum even know the route exists, let alone where it goes!
If it's not NXWM I don't think many people see it as an option.
I wonder if YW will receive 4578-4584 once these changes take place
I wonder how many B7RLEs will be needed by BC after these changes. And how many Pershore Road branded buses get debranded with the 47's PVR probably dropping.
Thing your find the singles will move to another depot as BC will be deckers only I was told by a driver
Quote from: Solo1 on July 03, 2018, 08:08:11 AM
Thing your find the singles will move to another depot as BC will be deckers only I was told by a driver
Any idea of where they'll go?
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 03, 2018, 10:41:45 AM
Any idea of where they'll go?
Has anyone actually said they are going?
Still the X21 to cover which will be b7s
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on July 03, 2018, 11:14:49 AM
Still the X21 to cover which will be b7s
What would happen to the others though as the X21 wouldn't need all of them?
Quote from: 2206 on July 03, 2018, 11:17:10 AM
What would happen to the others though as the X21 wouldn't need all of them?
Well given one of the main objectives of this 'Consultation' is to reduce Bus workings they will probably replace some of the older vehicles elsewhere...
Quote from: Tony on July 03, 2018, 11:00:11 AM
Has anyone actually said they are going?
driver told me unless it's changed
Quote from: Solo1 on July 03, 2018, 11:47:13 AM
driver told me unless it's changed
Drivers don't know!
The only garages I currently have planned moves for outstanding are AG; PB; WN & YW. I have a meeting later this week to discuss where vehicles should be in September, but even that doesn't eliminate single decks at BC
Quote from: Tony on July 03, 2018, 11:00:11 AM
Has anyone actually said they are going?
I was only going off of what Solo1 said, no need to bite my head off.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 03, 2018, 01:49:08 PM
I was only going off of what Solo1 said, no need to bite my head off.
I haven't even replied to you, let alone bitten your head off
Quote from: Tony on July 03, 2018, 04:25:53 PM
I haven't even replied to you, let alone bitten your head off
Well you quoted my comment and asked that question, I'd call that replying.
Quote from: Dom on July 02, 2018, 12:45:32 PM
Love how the 61 has the same late night running time (32 mins) as the X61. Difficult to do it on time as a limited stop route nevermind full stopping.
Another running time that seems slightly ambitious is the X20/X22 from city to the QE in the evening peak - up to 6 mins quicker than the 98/X64 to University Station. They would follow the same route as the X64/98 outbound and be stuck in the same Smallbrook Queensway traffic (which just gets worse) and the queues on Bath Row, Wheeleys Lane and Edgbaston Park Road. Plus the X64/98 don't typically stop that much or for long on this section. Difficult to see how such a time saving could be made.
Anyone got any ideas as of yet what colour the branding will be for the new X routes??? And if the 61/63 will be branded further?
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 04, 2018, 11:15:37 PM
Anyone got any ideas as of yet what colour the branding will be for the new X routes??? And if the 61/63 will be branded further?
The network map shows all routes serving the QE as turquoise (as per the former 99 route). The 23/24 are shown in red, as per the former Harborne branded B5s. Other routes like the 63, 11, 45/47, 35 etc are shown in the colours that existing buses branded for those routes have. So I'd hazard a guess that the X20/22 will be turquoise.
Quote from: Mike K on July 04, 2018, 11:29:53 PM
The network map shows all routes serving the QE as turquoise (as per the former 99 route). The 23/24 are shown in red, as per the former Harborne branded B5s. Other routes like the 63, 11, 45/47, 35 etc are shown in the colours that existing buses branded for those routes have. So I'd hazard a guess that the X20/22 will be turquoise.
It also shows the 61/63 as turquoise if memory serves. Additionally the 2/3 4/4A 5/6 all have colours but I doubt all of those will be branded to those colours.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 04, 2018, 11:35:23 PM
It also shows the 61/63 as turquoise if memory serves. Additionally the 2/3 4/4A 5/6 all have colours but I doubt all of those will be branded to those colours.
I'd imagine the 37 branded E200MMCs will have their branding altered, or new branding applied. Having said that, I also expected the YW E200MMCs to get branded up for the 6.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 04, 2018, 11:15:37 PM
Anyone got any ideas as of yet what colour the branding will be for the new X routes??? And if the 61/63 will be branded further?
They'll have to be at least tweaked, to either include the 61 or change the frequency of the 63
I've just been looking at the new timetables and I'm wondering if these are just for the summer holidays and new timetables starting in September, so will the 45, 47 go back to every 10 mins each in peaks instead of 12 mins?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 06, 2018, 07:10:58 AM
I've just been looking at the new timetables and I'm wondering if these are just for the summer holidays and new timetables starting in September, so will the 45, 47 go back to every 10 mins each in peaks instead of 12 mins?
Possibly - I did notice for the first time yesterday a note on the NXWM website that some of the new timetables would change again in September. Not that there were any printed copies of any new timetables available yesterday despite what posters at bus stops suggest.
I wonder if there will be enough platinums available to convert the X70 to MMCs
I notice the flags on the outbound stops along Beckbury Road have been changed to 27, X21. Suprised they've started it this early.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 06, 2018, 01:27:09 PM
I notice the flags on the outbound stops along Beckbury Road have been changed to 27, X21. Suprised they've started it this early.
Flags have also started being changed around Frankley.
So is anything going to replace the 22S and 29S next week? Because nothing will serve Edgbaston High School and Harborne Academy as far as those services are concerned.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 09, 2018, 05:19:47 PM
So is anything going to replace the 22S and 29S next week? Because nothing will serve Edgbaston High School and Harborne Academy as far as those services are concerned.
Nothing replaces anything 'next week' (i.e., week commencing Monday 16 July,) as the new service network does not commence until 22 July.
Edgbaston High School closes noon tomorrow, 10 July according to its website calendar http://edgbastonhigh.co.uk/calendar/month/09-Jul-2018.
Harborne Academy however continues until 24 July according to http://www.harborneacademy.co.uk/parent-calendar
Quote from: Smethwickian on July 09, 2018, 05:29:01 PM
Nothing replaces anything 'next week' (i.e., week commencing Monday 16 July,) as the new service network does not commence until 22 July.
Edgbaston High School closes noon tomorrow, 10 July according to its website calendar http://edgbastonhigh.co.uk/calendar/month/09-Jul-2018.
Harborne Academy however continues until 24 July according to http://www.harborneacademy.co.uk/parent-calendar
Alright so I worded it wrong. Still doesn't answer my question though. So I assume these schools are closing permanently then yeah...
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 09, 2018, 05:36:17 PM
Alright so I worded it wrong. Still doesn't answer my question though. So I assume these schools are closing permanently then yeah...
Till September (for the school holidays.).
If they aren't being replaced the 2 schools you mention are located between Five Ways and Harborne so will still be served by the regular 23 and 24.
Quote from: 2206 on July 09, 2018, 05:41:13 PM
Till September (for the school holidays.).
If they aren't being replaced the 2 schools you mention are located between Five Ways and Harborne so will still be served by the regular 23 and 24.
I know that, I was being fictitious in response to the condescending answer I was given.
Yes they will but that's no good to those who require the 22 and 29, hence why I asked about the 22S and 29S.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 09, 2018, 05:43:14 PM
I know that, I was being fictitious in response to the condescending answer I was given.
Yes they will but that's no good to those who require the 22 and 29, hence why I asked about the 22S and 29S.
The 29S doesn't carry on beyond Harborne anyway according to the timetable on the NX website and serves Shenley Academy, terminating at the first stop on Harborne High Street.
So it serves neither of the 2 places you mentioned, therefore neither will be affected.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2016-Timetables/Revised-timetables/B29S_15Apr16.pdf
According to the timetable on the NX website the 22S operates to the City Centre in the afternoon anyone who uses the 22S from the 2 places you mentioned can catch a 23/4 to the City Centre. And doesn't operate in the morning, since it doesn't operate in the morning they must already use the 23/24 in the morning anyway.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2016-Timetables/29th-May-2016/B22S_29May16.pdf
Quote from: 2206 on July 09, 2018, 05:47:15 PM
The 29S doesn't carry on beyond Harborne anyway according to the timetable on the NX website and serves Shenley Academy, terminating at the first stop on Harborne High Street.
So it serves neither of the 2 places you mentioned, therefore neither will be affected.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2016-Timetables/Revised-timetables/B29S_15Apr16.pdf
According to the timetable on the NX website the 22S operates from the City Centre in the morning and to the City Centre in the afternoon anyone who uses the 22S from the 2 places you mentioned can catch a 23/4 to the City Centre.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2016-Timetables/29th-May-2016/B22S_29May16.pdf
You sure about that? That's not what it says here.
https://nxbus.co.uk/routes/west-midlands/B029S/?timetable[day]=&tab=
(Okay that link isn't working but if you search for 29s on NX website it shows as much)
The 22S doesn't just serve Harborne...
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 09, 2018, 05:50:50 PM
You sure about that? That's not what it says here.
https://nxbus.co.uk/routes/west-midlands/B029S/?timetable[day]=&tab=
(Okay that link isn't working but if you search for 29s on NX website it shows as much)
The 22S doesn't just serve Harborne...
29S:
Serves Shenley Academy
1 journey to Harborne High Street.
The other journey goes nowhere near Harborne and goes to Northfeld.
It doesn't serve the Harborne to Five Ways section, so Harbrone Academy and Edgbaston High School won't be affected.
Thats what the timetable on the NX website shows.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2016-Timetables/Revised-timetables/B29S_15Apr16.pdf
Quote from: 2206 on July 09, 2018, 05:59:49 PM
29S:
1 journey to Harborne High Street.
The other journey goes nowhere near Harborne and goes to Northfeld.
It doesn't serve the Harborne to Five Ways section, so Harbrone Academy and Edgbaston High School won't be affected.
Thats what the timetable on the NX website shows.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2016-Timetables/Revised-timetables/B29S_15Apr16.pdf
So why does the stop list on the NX website say it goes to town then?
Irregardless, they still rely on the regular 22 and 29 which won't be replaced.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 09, 2018, 06:03:09 PM
So why does the stop list on the NX website say it goes to town then?
Irregardless, they still rely on the regular 22 and 29 which won't be replaced.
They probably haven't updated the stop list from whenever they last changed the route.
The 97S is the same and the stop list hasn't been updated from when they extended it as well.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 09, 2018, 05:43:14 PM
I know that, I was being fictitious in response to the condescending answer I was given.
The word you're looking for is 'facetious' but nevertheless no condescension was intended as your post raised a valid question - I looked up the schools' holiday dates to see if the changes coincide with end of term which clearly is not as consistent as I would have expected.
Do any other schools still have lessons in the week commencing 23 July, leaving pupils to rearrange travel plans for a random few days?
Yes, I meant facetious.
School services are always irrelevant to service changes like this
Who's brainchild idea was it to do a door drop yesterday of the Bartley Green and Northfield areas of a leaflet advertising all the old services as a travel option for getting to QE Hospital?
You really couldn't make it up could you!
Had someone today timing up.asking for advice on getting from acocks green to hunters moon, nx told them to get 31 into city then 94. When they asked what happens when 31 changes & they were told there are no planned changes to 31 service. The person then decided to call our office for correct advice..
How would you guys get from acocks green to hunters moon see if you have the same idea as me.
Quote from: Steveminor on July 10, 2018, 09:16:45 PM
Had someone today timing up.asking for advice on getting from acocks green to hunters moon, nx told them to get 31 into city then 94. When they asked what happens when 31 changes & they were told there are no planned changes to 31 service. The person then decided to call our office for correct advice..
How would you guys get from acocks green to hunters moon see if you have the same idea as me.
Your quickest option from Acocks Green to the Hunters Moon would be:
11A to the Fox and Goose (in the other direction it'd be the 11C).
94 from the Fox and Goose a few stops up the road to the Hunters Moon.
@Steveminor
Quote from: 2206 on July 10, 2018, 09:18:48 PM
Your quickest option from Acocks Green to the Hunters Moon would be:
11A to the Fox and Goose (in the other direction it'd be the 11C).
94 from the Fox and Goose a few stops up the road to the Hunters Moon.
@Steveminor
Same, that seems the fastest way
Exactly what I thought.
Why give someone wrong information it would only deter them from using the bus in future!
I dread to think how much duff information will be given out by travel shop staff in coming weeks and how many out-of-date timetables will remain on display across the county (where they actually give any space to such material, that is) after July 22.
Staff seem interested only in selling tickets and rarely seem to acquaint themselves with service changes by, for example, regularly checking operators' websites and the Network West Midlands changes listing. About 12 days ago I myself removed from display at Dudley travel shop a batch of timetables for routes 50A and 50C, West Bromwich to Bearwood circulars - yes, the 50A and 50C withdrawn in April 2017.
I have given up telling staff about such things as I either get blank looks because they simply do not understand, or I'm essentially told to mind my own business and not tell them how to do their jobs. I just remove the outdated stuff and ensure it reaches the recycling rather than hand it to staff and return days later to see it back on display.
Quote from: Steveminor on July 11, 2018, 07:18:52 AM
Exactly what I thought.
Why give someone wrong information it would only deter them from using the bus in future!
I agree, by the time you've got into the City Centre on the 94 as well, you'd probably already be in Acocks Green or nearly be in Acokcs Green on the 11, telling someone to take a longer indirect route and also a less frequent route (the 31 is a lot less frequent than the 11 - the 31 is every 20 minutes), will just put them of using the bus in the future, so why give someone the wrong information when there is a faster and more frequent route present (11 - 94).
Passengers just want to get to there destination as quickly as possible.
Quote from: Straightlines on July 10, 2018, 11:26:50 AM
Who's brainchild idea was it to do a door drop yesterday of the Bartley Green and Northfield areas of a leaflet advertising all the old services as a travel option for getting to QE Hospital?
You really couldn't make it up could you!
Can we just clafiry if it was a NX thing, a NWM thing or a hospital thing first?
Quote from: Kevin on July 11, 2018, 10:19:44 AM
Can we just clafiry if it was a NX thing, a NWM thing or a hospital thing first?
Not NWM/TfWM.
With them having gone through the effort recently of branding the 63, are the Hybrids likely to stay on there? Will the 61/63 be treated as separate routes or are we likely to see a mix of buses branded for the two?
Quote from: Smethwickian on July 11, 2018, 08:20:19 AM
I dread to think how much duff information will be given out by travel shop staff in coming weeks and how many out-of-date timetables will remain on display across the county (where they actually give any space to such material, that is) after July 22.
Staff seem interested only in selling tickets and rarely seem to acquaint themselves with service changes by, for example, regularly checking operators' websites and the Network West Midlands changes listing. About 12 days ago I myself removed from display at Dudley travel shop a batch of timetables for routes 50A and 50C, West Bromwich to Bearwood circulars - yes, the 50A and 50C withdrawn in April 2017.
I have given up telling staff about such things as I either get blank looks because they simply do not understand, or I'm essentially told to mind my own business and not tell them how to do their jobs. I just remove the outdated stuff and ensure it reaches the recycling rather than hand it to staff and return days later to see it back on display.
You're a customer. You shouldn't have to be doing their jobs!
Quote from: Kevin on July 11, 2018, 10:19:44 AM
Can we just clafiry if it was a NX thing, a NWM thing or a hospital thing first?
The customer said they were told by nxwm.
Are they changing the 97 route in Birmingham City Centre as well?
Traveline WM and Google Maps show that the X20/X21/X22 and 61/63 will be stopping the current 97 terminus and from there will continue to the Priory Queensway where they will terminate.
With the 97 being moved stopping at BS17 on Albert Street.
"Birmingham, Dale House (Stop BS17)"
The map on Traveline WM shows that it will come back down Moor Street no longer leaving the City Centre via Park Street.
The timetable shows it will stop at BS17 -
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&command=direct&net=cen&line=33097&sup=B&itdLPxx_direction=H&project=y11&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&itdLPxx_sessionID=CEN_EFA03_44249870&lineVer=12&itdLPxx_spTr=12&itdLPxx_operatorCodeForTTB=NXB
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Dale+House+(Stop+BS17)/@52.4806308,-1.8940289,18z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4870bc8f5f86f8c9:0x5ce9c42bd898bc98!8m2!3d52.4806101!4d-1.893201
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 06, 2018, 10:22:57 AM
I wonder if there will be enough platinums available to convert the X70 to MMCs
With the B7RLE staying at BC, I wander what they'd use them on from next week, as the X21 wouldn't need them all?
Would they use them on the decker routes, eg - 60, 14, Bristol Road?
I notice a few stops have sneakily been taken away with regards to the X64 /X21. For example SB and SL in Selly Oak. Both of which seem like main stops to me. Is the case for all services or just the "express" ones?
I can sort of see why SL has been taken away as you tend to get stuck there with incoming traffic and it's just before the red lights etc. However I don't see the same logic behind SB going.
Also I've noticed that inbound buses won't be serving Kemberton Road, instead going down Castle Road and along Alwold Road. Which to.be honest is something I'd been meaning to suggest anyway as buses in opposite directions were getting stuck on Kemberton. Only thing I would say is they maybe could've replaced the 2 stops taken away with 1 on Alwold Road, which would also help those on the other side of Alwold who don't have the 29 anymore.
Just on my way into City on X64 noticing the new flags... Where exactly is this new X21 going to be 'limited stop???
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 18, 2018, 05:40:31 AM
Just on my way into City on X64 noticing the new flags... Where exactly is this new X21 going to be 'limited stop???
At Edgebaston Old Church where it turns right and then goes non stop into City.
I'm confused by the X21. It seems to serve a number of stops outbound along Wheeleys Road and Arthur Road but goes not stop via a different route inbound. Is the assumption that passengers along this section of the route only need to travel in one direction?
Quote from: Mike K on July 18, 2018, 08:24:00 AM
I'm confused by the X21. It seems to serve a number of stops outbound along Wheeleys Road and Arthur Road but goes not stop via a different route inbound. Is the assumption that passengers along this section of the route only need to travel in one direction?
Yep, that's the impression I get also. Well I'll be honest I've seen more people get on the X64 outbound than inbound but that might down to the times that I get it. Still strange though.
I still think its a bad idea having all of X20 X21 X22 running via Wheeleys Rd. I think the X20 should have ran straight along Bristol Rd to compliment the 61 and 63.
Quote from: B.C Driver on July 18, 2018, 11:21:18 AM
I still think its a bad idea having all of X20 X21 X22 running via Wheeleys Rd. I think the X20 should have ran straight along Bristol Rd to compliment the 61 and 63.
Why, if it's going to be non-stop along the Bristol Road and heading towards University Station anyway?
Quote from: B.C Driver on July 18, 2018, 11:21:18 AM
I still think its a bad idea having all of X20 X21 X22 running via Wheeleys Rd. I think the X20 should have ran straight along Bristol Rd to compliment the 61 and 63.
The X20 and X22 won't have any stops on Wheeleys Road though.
Towards City Centre:
Non Stop from B'ham Uni, Pritchatts Road to Smallbrook Queensway, NS9.
From City Centre:
Non stop from Bath Row, Tesco (Granville St) to B'ham Uni, Pritchatts Road.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_GEOOBJECT_REQUEST?language=en&command=bothDirections&line=cen:33X20:B:H:y11:5:5::1:2&hideBannerInfo=1&coordOutputFormat=MRCV
It was said being limited stop they'll be able to vary there route and take the fastest route being non stop as well, like the X12 does between the City Centre and Bromford over those sections.
Quote from: Tony on July 02, 2018, 07:24:54 PM
The X20/X22 being limited stop can vary their route depending on traffic
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 18, 2018, 01:41:40 PM
Why, if it's going to be non-stop along the Bristol Road and heading towards University Station anyway?
Because there are stops along the Bristol the X20 could have made to help the 61 and 63, Birmingham University - a major stop, Priory Rd - a well used stop and Stone Rd - a very busy stop. Why send all 3 via QE hospital?? I know people in Rednal and they want to get from Rednal to City direct, not venture through the traffic ridden QE hospital and the back roads.
Quote from: B.C Driver on July 18, 2018, 02:23:24 PM
Because there are stops along the Bristol the X20 could have made to help the 61 and 63, Birmingham University - a major stop, Priory Rd - a well used stop and Stone Rd - a very busy stop. Why send all 3 via QE hospital?? I know people in Rednal and they want to get from Rednal to City direct, not venture through the traffic ridden QE hospital and the back roads.
I know there's stops on the Bristol Road, but my point was that they're running as non stop services so that wouldn't help.
Really? Well I've read various comments on Social Media moaning about the removal of the 98 and not having a direct link to the QE from Rubery. Plenty are being left to fend for themselves, with the 23/24 being the latest. That's just how things are going now.
I guess the point that BC Driver is making is that instead of them all running non-stop from the Uni into city, one could have run limited stop along the Bristol Rd from the QE to serve some of the key busier stops that the 61/63 serve.
It will be interesting to see how quick these routes are into town in practice. Edgbaston Park Road past The Vale and Wellington Road are 'rat runs' used by cars trying to avoid Harborne traffic and can themselves be horribly congested and delayed at times.
Quote from: Mike K on July 18, 2018, 06:01:06 PM
I guess the point that BC Driver is making is that instead of them all running non-stop from the Uni into city, one could have run limited stop along the Bristol Rd from the QE to serve some of the key busier stops that the 61/63 serve.
Yeah I know that, in all honesty I don't see why not either. Key stops only and then turning off to the QE. I thought that's what they were going to do originally. Only problem is the Bristol Road can be like a car park during rush hour, so you have to be careful sending 'express' services down there really.
Quote from: Mike K on July 18, 2018, 06:01:06 PM
I guess the point that BC Driver is making is that instead of them all running non-stop from the Uni into city, one could have run limited stop along the Bristol Rd from the QE to serve some of the key busier stops that the 61/63 serve.
It will be interesting to see how quick these routes are into town in practice. Edgbaston Park Road past The Vale and Wellington Road are 'rat runs' used by cars trying to avoid Harborne traffic and can themselves be horribly congested and delayed at times.
Thankyou! Yes you're right Edgbaston Park Rd by the pond is a rat race. It's a single lane minor road. Why have all 3 going that way? Give the 61 and 63 a hand. After all we did have 3 routes not too along ago (61 62 63).
Quote from: B.C Driver on July 18, 2018, 07:27:04 PM
Thankyou! Yes you're right Edgbaston Park Rd by the pond is a rat race. It's a single lane minor road. Why have all 3 going that way? Give the 61 and 63 a hand. After all we did have 3 routes not too along ago (61 62 63).
I'm surprised they're being made to go down there. Non stop or not they can't overtake anyone. They'll end up stuck behind the X21.
Is a frequency of every 5 mins not enough for the Bristol Road then? I can't remember what it was like with the 3 of them but I'd have thought it was the same back then.
@Tony may be better to confirm but I'm sure the 61 62 & 63 were at a 15 minute frequency each combining to make a 5 minute service.
With the combined 61 62 63 they ran more frequent at night time. Each route was every 20 mins. Whereas the 61 and 63 are every half hour on nights.
As I remember it, the 61 was every 7/8 minutes, and the 62 & 63 were every 15 minutes each, creating a combined frequency of every 3/4 minutes.
Evenings, the 61 was every 15, the 62 & 63 every 30 mins each, combined 7/8 min frequency.
Sunday's, the 61 was every 10 minutes, 62 & 63 every 20 mins each, combined every 5 mins. Happy to be corrected
I just remember on evenings the 61 was every 20 mins, 62 was every 20 mins, 63 was every 20 mins.
So between City and Northfield buses were more frequent than now. It can get very busy on evenings. Remember, the university is one of the biggest in the UK, about 30,000 students study there.
6856 was on Moor Street Queensway turning right onto Park Street with lots of drivers onboard (some upstairs and some downstairs), was this on driver training for the new services today, seen at about 12:46?
Quote from: 2206 on July 12, 2018, 04:45:48 PM
Are they changing the 97 route in Birmingham City Centre as well?
Traveline WM and Google Maps show that the X20/X21/X22 and 61/63 will be stopping the current 97 terminus and from there will continue to the Priory Queensway where they will terminate.
With the 97 being moved stopping at BS17 on Albert Street.
"Birmingham, Dale House (Stop BS17)"
The map on Traveline WM shows that it will come back down Moor Street no longer leaving the City Centre via Park Street.
The timetable shows it will stop at BS17 -
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_TTB_REQUEST?language=en&command=direct&net=cen&line=33097&sup=B&itdLPxx_direction=H&project=y11&outputFormat=0&itdLPxx_displayHeader=false&itdLPxx_sessionID=CEN_EFA03_44249870&lineVer=12&itdLPxx_spTr=12&itdLPxx_operatorCodeForTTB=NXB
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Dale+House+(Stop+BS17)/@52.4806308,-1.8940289,18z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4870bc8f5f86f8c9:0x5ce9c42bd898bc98!8m2!3d52.4806101!4d-1.893201
the 97 is only temporary move sign on bus stop says due to a new stop been built there
X21 has a platinum on. I so hope these remain on these so they match with the X20 and X22. Presuming it's just because it's a Sunday.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 22, 2018, 07:45:32 AM
X21 has a platinum on. I so hope these remain on these so they match with the X20 and X22. Presuming it's just because it's a Sunday.
They might be, I picked up the X20, X21, X22 timetable on Friday and it's Platinum style timetable leaflet !
Ah good. Time will tell I guess :)
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 22, 2018, 08:13:38 AM
Ah good. Time will tell I guess :)
If my maths is correct there were 38 Platinums delivered this year + 7 taken from the X61 that = 45, so I think in the main daytime period the 23 and 24 will need
about 24 + 6 for the X20 + 7 for the X21 and 5 for the X22, that equals 42. Other vehicles could supplement in peaks as they do on 934-7 routes.
Just done 6828 on the X21 from Bangham Pit to Birmingham, and between Edgbaston Park Road and Bristol Road we used Wellington Road, first time I have been on a bus down there. Guess drivers are free to use whatever route on that section? Vaguely recall a Zaks route might have used Wellington Road many years ago but nothing for a long time.
Quote from: Cheese on July 22, 2018, 10:37:28 AM
Just done 6828 on the X21 from Bangham Pit to Birmingham, and between Edgbaston Park Road and Bristol Road we used Wellington Road, first time I have been on a bus down there. Guess drivers are free to use whatever route on that section? Vaguely recall a Zaks route might have used Wellington Road many years ago but nothing for a long time.
Wellington Road is THE route towards City. It's not down to drivers' discretion.
I'm sure there were flags along the old x64 route along Arthur Road? x21 also just gone down Wellington Road. Still painfully slow from Weoley Castle to Edbadton Church 🙄
This also contradicts the route maps that were released that has Wellington Road blanked out??????.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 22, 2018, 11:11:18 AM
I'm sure there were flags along the old x64 route along Arthur Road? x21 also just gone down Wellington Road. Still painfully slow from Weoley Castle to Edbadton Church 🙄
From Edgbaston Old Church the route is:
Into the City Cente non stop via Wellington Road and Bristol Road.
Out of the City Centre stopping via Bath Row, Wheeleys Road and Arthur Road.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_GEOOBJECT_REQUEST?language=en&command=bothDirections&line=cen:33X21:B:H:y11:5:5::1:2&hideBannerInfo=1&coordOutputFormat=MRCV
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 22, 2018, 11:13:50 AM
This also contradicts the route maps that were released that has Wellington Road blanked out??????.
You can't get on/off on Wellington Road though.
Quote from: 2206 on July 22, 2018, 11:14:56 AM
From Edgbaston Old Church the route is:
Into the City Cente non stop via Wellington Road and Bristol Road.
Out of the City Centre stopping via Bath Row, Wheeleys Road and Arthur Road.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_GEOOBJECT_REQUEST?language=en&command=bothDirections&line=cen:33X21:B:H:y11:5:5::1:2&hideBannerInfo=1&coordOutputFormat=MRCVYou can't get on/off on Wellington Road though.
I'm presuming it would stop at Stone Rd?
Quote from: B.C Driver on July 22, 2018, 11:40:45 AM
I'm presuming it would stop at Stone Rd?
Not according to the maps and timetables.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 22, 2018, 11:44:09 AM
Not according to the maps and timetables.
Seems a bit strange not to stop there, even the X61 did.
Quote from: B.C Driver on July 22, 2018, 11:50:09 AM
Seems a bit strange not to stop there, even the X61 did.
The only stop they should use really if any is the one by the O2 Academy.
No straight through. Which I'm glad about as there is very little point in having the 'X' as this is always associated with express...
I see the X21 will return to Arthur Road in both directions following the completion of the bus gate.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 22, 2018, 12:04:45 PM
No straight through. Which I'm glad about as there is very little point in having the 'X' as this is always associated with express...
I see the X21 will return to Arthur Road in both directions following the completion of the bus gate.
Oh so that is happening then? Not seen any reference to this since the original consultation
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 22, 2018, 12:04:45 PM
No straight through. Which I'm glad about as there is very little point in having the 'X' as this is always associated with express...
I see the X21 will return to Arthur Road in both directions following the completion of the bus gate.
I did say if any. I would rather it stayed like that, yes. Personally I believe it should go that way in both directions non-stop.
Where does it say that about Arthur Road?
The NXWM Twitter feed. Someone asked the question. Like they say, no point in creating one if no buses will be using It!
If this is the case that'll be rather disappointing to say the least.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 22, 2018, 08:08:35 AM
They might be, I picked up the X20, X21, X22 timetable on Friday and it's Platinum style timetable leaflet !
I guess it might be a little while before the allocations settle down as the summer timetables mean spare buses so the X21 could continue to see Platinums used. The service changes specifically mentioned the X20 and X22 as being Platinum but not the X21. I've not bothered to work it out but I guesstimated the 23/24 PVR as slightly higher than 24. I also think they may go to every 8 mins each during the day once the summer timetable ends (rather than 9 mins now).
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 22, 2018, 12:11:52 PM
If this is the case that'll be rather disappointing to say the least.
Quote from: Mike K on July 18, 2018, 08:24:00 AM
I'm confused by the X21. It seems to serve a number of stops outbound along Wheeleys Road and Arthur Road but goes not stop via a different route inbound. Is the assumption that passengers along this section of the route only need to travel in one direction?
I notice they've said the reason for the X21 not serving Arthur Road inbound currently is that they've had lots of complaints about congestion at Five Ways Island on the previous 98/X64.
QuoteAndy J Turley: So why isnt tge x21 stopping at 5 ways? It goes past the stop the x64 used. So now both buses that from weoley castle that both had stops there no longer serve it or is the app wrong?
QuoteNational Express West Midlands: Hi Andy. We've had quite a lot of customers contact us regarding delays and congestion at Five Ways. There are still services travelling there, you will need to connect with a 1 or 23 service in Birmingham.
Quote from: 2206 on July 22, 2018, 07:33:03 PM
I notice they've said the reason for the X21 not serving Arthur Road inbound currently is that they've had lots of complaints about congestion at Five Ways Island on the previous 98/X64.
I'm not sure what that's got to do with what I said, but in my opinion I didn't think Five Ways was that bad for the 98/X64, the traffic lights helped them around the island much quicker than the Harborne buses.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 22, 2018, 07:38:44 PM
I'm not sure what that's got to do with what I said, but in my opinion I didn't think Five Ways was that bad for the 98/X64, the traffic lights helped them around the island much quicker than the Harborne buses.
With current roadworks there I believe, it is horrendous with traffic even at 10 am in the morning there are queues heading back on the Hagley Road as people wait to go onto the island
Is the 27 doing the old 004 route round by the green man? As I'm unsure how else it's possible to terminate at the green man.
This proposed 48 route will be interesting to see how quickly it becomes unreliable, with a journey time of almost 2 hours one way, and minimal waiting at places such as the QE. Can see this being quickly withdrawn due to reliablility issues
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 22, 2018, 09:46:20 PM
Is the 27 doing the old 004 route round by the green man? As I'm unsure how else it's possible to terminate at the green man.
This proposed 48 route will be interesting to see how quickly it becomes unreliable, with a journey time of almost 2 hours one way, and minimal waiting at places such as the QE. Can see this being quickly withdrawn due to reliablility issues
The 27 does a large loop around Harborne by going up Metchley Lane from Quinton Road, then left onto Harborne High St, Vivian Rd and Harborne Park Rd.
As regards the 48, agreed, I'll be astounded if this lasts long term.
Two routes, a 48 West Brom to QE and an extended 84 QE to Northfield via Bournville and Hawkesley would have made more sense.
Quite a few moaning about the limited stop around Edgbaston and not stopping on Arthur Road etc... I think in time perhaps explore the idea of a circular - perhaps half hourly that covers the stops no longer served. If it's utilised then great, if not, they can say that provided an option and no one took it up.
I notice the X20 isn't stopping at Orphopeadic Hospital.
Bad move in my opinion. Lots of people use that stop for the hospital and for White Hill Lane.
X21 back to single decks today :-[
Quote from: V89MOA on July 23, 2018, 08:56:15 AM
Very poor show.
But isn't the x21 replacing parts of the x64 which was single deck operated previously?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 23, 2018, 09:13:21 AM
But isn't the x21 replacing parts of the x64 which was single deck operated previously?
And parts of the 29. Not to mention the Vale which means covering parts of the 98 too.
Quote from: B.C Driver on July 23, 2018, 01:31:18 AM
I notice the X20 isn't stopping at Orphopeadic Hospital.
Bad move in my opinion. Lots of people use that stop for the hospital and for White Hill Lane.
If I recall correctly, the same thing happened with the X62 initially - the Orthopaedic Hospital stop was reinstated within a couple of months.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 23, 2018, 09:13:21 AM
But isn't the x21 replacing parts of the x64 which was single deck operated previously?
Yes and look how the X64 coped with singles at peaks. That and they are just plain vile buses anyway, hardly fitting of a service aligned with Platinum routes. I'm also sure Tony said they would be moving onto other BC routes after yesterday?
Quote from: V89MOA on July 23, 2018, 09:17:07 AM
Yes and look how the X64 coped with singles at peaks. That and they are just plain vile buses anyway, hardly fitting of a service aligned with Platinum routes. I'm also sure Tony said they would be moving onto other BC routes after yesterday?
Yeah the spares maybe. I expect the X21 to be fully operated by overcrowded B7RLEs.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 23, 2018, 09:23:22 AM
Yeah the spares maybe. I expect the X21 to be fully operated by overcrowded B7RLEs.
Hmmm Well as I say, poor show.
I'm actually surprised the X20/22 don't stop at the Vale at least, seeing as they'd go past in both directions
Quote from: Kevin on July 23, 2018, 10:30:55 AM
I'm actually surprised the X20/22 don't stop at the Vale at least, seeing as they'd go past in both directions
They only go past in one direction; outbound.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 23, 2018, 10:33:41 AM
They only go past in one direction; outbound.
The Vale? Thought they went Edgbaston Park Road and Wellington Road into town?
Quote from: Kevin on July 23, 2018, 10:40:24 AM
The Vale? Thought they went Edgbaston Park Road and Wellington Road into town?
That's the X21. The others take a first right onto Edgebaston Park Road towards the Bristol Road.
I wonder how much grief drivers around the city are getting today...
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 23, 2018, 10:46:06 AM
That's the X21. The others take a first right onto Edgebaston Park Road towards the Bristol Road.
Interesting, that's changed from the original route already
Anyway, another note, yesterday saw 4As going to Robin Hood Island, quick check on the timetable shows that evening on Sundays that stretch gets a better service than the rest of the week, is it just so that buses aren't laying over somewhere they can be targeted?
Quote from: Kevin on July 23, 2018, 10:55:30 AM
Interesting, that's changed from the original route already
Has it? I was under the impression that was always the case. It was according to the maps provided by NX anyway.
Quote from: SO6597 on July 23, 2018, 09:16:28 AM
If I recall correctly, the same thing happened with the X62 initially - the Orthopaedic Hospital stop was reinstated within a couple of months.
I like your name, 6597 - 99 were my faves at SO :)
What a surprise the harborne corridor of 23 and 24 are pretty wrecked, in harborne and not a 23 due for 20 mins.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 23, 2018, 02:37:00 PM
What a surprise the harborne corridor of 23 and 24 are pretty wrecked, in harborne and not a 23 due for 20 mins.
If things are like that during the school summer holidays and it's outbound it's normally due to an incident or the debacle that is Smallbrook Queensway. If only they followed the old route out of town via Colmore Row and Great Charles Street, that corridor would be far more reliable than it is these days.
I thought it was just the express routes that had their displays changed but I've seen a few up Cotteridge today. The 18 for example, Yardley Wood, Via King's Heath. What good is that? I'm all for the bigger last destinations but the scrolling underneath is much better than showing just one via point. Especially with all of the changes...
Quote from: Kevin on July 23, 2018, 10:55:30 AM
Interesting, that's changed from the original route already
Anyway, another note, yesterday saw 4As going to Robin Hood Island, quick check on the timetable shows that evening on Sundays that stretch gets a better service than the rest of the week, is it just so that buses aren't laying over somewhere they can be targeted?
The 31E use to on Sundays and Evenings use to extend to Robin Hood Island too.
Quote from: V89MOA on July 23, 2018, 09:17:07 AM
Yes and look how the X64 coped with singles at peaks. That and they are just plain vile buses anyway, hardly fitting of a service aligned with Platinum routes. I'm also sure Tony said they would be moving onto other BC routes after yesterday?
What exactly is wrong with the B7RLEs?
I noticed yesterday that the number 4 did a short journey from Solihull to Acocks Green but rather than saying 4E it just said short journey underneath? Wouldn't it just be clearer to say E?
Quote from: Bus1237 on July 23, 2018, 05:13:17 PM
I noticed yesterday that the number 4 did a short journey from Solihull to Acocks Green but rather than saying 4E it just said short journey underneath? Wouldn't it just be clearer to say E?
Hilarious. More "simplfying" no doubt.
All of the AG/BC/YW destinations seem to have been changed. Same style as the Diamond Redditch/Lidderminster Hanovers it seems. Big final destination and small via points. Much better in my opinion.
Quote from: MW on July 23, 2018, 06:05:47 PM
All of the AG/BC/YW destinations seem to have been changed. Same style as the Diamond Redditch/Lidderminster Hanovers it seems. Big final destination and small via points. Much better in my opinion.
Very picky, but I'm not very keen on the fonts used for the number, too narrow for my liking. Suits the Gemini's though
Quote from: MW on July 23, 2018, 06:05:47 PM
All of the AG/BC/YW destinations seem to have been changed. Same style as the Diamond Redditch/Lidderminster Hanovers it seems. Big final destination and small via points. Much better in my opinion.
I agree that it looks good but I still think a scrolling display for the via points underneath is better.
The 1A for example has the same style of lettering as the 'X' on the Platinum routes. I wonder what the 'E' looks like on shorter workings.
People Moaning on midlands today still get west mids news down in London
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 23, 2018, 04:00:01 PM
What exactly is wrong with the B7RLEs?
Nasty, shoddy, unreliable, jerky, uncomfortable, cramped, boring heaps. Completely unsuitable to a busy route like the X21 imo, they've been bad enough on the X64 for all these years. Finally got a chance for a decent upgrade (tridents would've done!) and overlooked.
Quote from: MW on July 23, 2018, 06:05:47 PM
All of the AG/BC/YW destinations seem to have been changed. Same style as the Diamond Redditch/Lidderminster Hanovers it seems. Big final destination and small via points. Much better in my opinion.
I agree, the new font's are much better and clearer to read! Although I am a bit confused as to why most are static? Wouldn't it make more sense, especially on the 45/47 to have them alternating? 45 Longbridge via Pershore Road vs 47 Longbridge via Pershore Road isn't really explaining much?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 23, 2018, 06:43:33 PM
People Moaning on midlands today still get west mids news down in London
People are always going to moan.
Read some complaints from Rednal people about the X20 not stopping at the hospital, yet strangely the Rednal people were complaining back when the 98 was introduced that they didn't want to go via the hospital....
And complaints from Edgewood Road residents about double deckers going down their road and in the same sentence saying mentioning the parking issues on Leach Green Lane....
You couldn't make this stuff up sometimes, bet these people don't even catch the bus anyway
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 23, 2018, 03:21:48 PM
I thought it was just the express routes that had their displays changed but I've seen a few up Cotteridge today. The 18 for example, Yardley Wood, Via King's Heath. What good is that? I'm all for the bigger last destinations but the scrolling underneath is much better than showing just one via point. Especially with all of the changes...
The 18 going via Kings Heath is stretching it a bit, Alcester Lanes End surely.
Seeing 2124 on the X2 this evening while there were at least two Platinums on the 60 was a little surprising, hopefully things will settle down.
Quote from: Kevin on July 23, 2018, 07:02:48 PM
And complaints from Edgewood Road residents about double deckers going down their road and in the same sentence saying mentioning the parking issues on Leach Green Lane....
At the end of the day if a bus struggles to get down a road with poor parking then so would a Fire engine. People need to wise up and take some responsibility for issues of their own making, and authorities need to stop bowing down to these people.
Quote from: V89MOA on July 23, 2018, 07:10:36 PM
At the end of the day if a bus struggles to get down a road with poor parking then so would a Fire engine. People need to wise up and take some responsibility for issues of their own making, and authorities need to stop bowing down to these people.
Which is the situation on Turnberry Road in Beeches. When DD's first started used it residents moaned that they didn't want DD's going past their houses and that the vibrations caused their garden walls to collapse. The Buses struggle with all the parked cars all over the place. It's annoying if you get stuck right by the swimming baths, it's a real sticky situation.
People do need to wisen up and grow up, these people probably don't even use the buses!
Quote from: V89MOA on July 23, 2018, 06:57:22 PM
Nasty, shoddy, unreliable, jerky, uncomfortable, cramped, boring heaps. Completely unsuitable to a busy route like the X21 imo, they've been bad enough on the X64 for all these years. Finally got a chance for a decent upgrade (tridents would've done!) and overlooked.
I agree, the new font's are much better and clearer to read! Although I am a bit confused as to why most are static? Wouldn't it make more sense, especially on the 45/47 to have them alternating? 45 Longbridge via Pershore Road vs 47 Longbridge via Pershore Road isn't really explaining much?
Fair enough. Never had a problem with them myself when using them on the 120. Each to their own.
I'm surprised the Pershore Road branding hasn't been updated to be honest
Quote from: Jack on July 23, 2018, 07:16:32 PM
residents moaned that they didn't want DD's going past their houses and that the vibrations caused their garden walls to collapse.
Sounds like the kind of story you read on the 'Angry People in Local Newspapers' page... People really haven't got a clue.
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 23, 2018, 07:32:53 PM
I'm surprised the Pershore Road branding hasn't been updated to be honest
Me too in fairness, although the Hybrids are still being done and the X2*s haven't had any yet so there is still a fair chance that the Pershore Roads are on the list, fingers crossed!
Quote from: V89MOA on July 23, 2018, 06:57:22 PM
Nasty, shoddy, unreliable, jerky, uncomfortable, cramped, boring heaps.
The boring bit, fair enough. But the rest of that is not true. The B7RLE / Eclipse 2 are some of the best single deckers in the fleet. They're reliable, they're bright and airy inside and generally a good bus. To drive, they're definitely the best out of Scanias & E200 (both versions). The visibility and general smoothness of them is spot on. Best single deck bus I've ever driven and would happily spend a 5 and a half hour portion of a duty in. Can't say the same for the Scanias and E200. I'm also including the Diamond stuff I've driven in that list.
Quote from: MW on July 23, 2018, 08:07:50 PM
The boring bit, fair enough. But the rest of that is not true. The B7RLE / Eclipse 2 are some of the best single deckers in the fleet. They're reliable, they're bright and airy inside and generally a good bus. To drive, they're definitely the best out of Scanias & E200 (both versions). The visibility and general smoothness of them is spot on. Best single deck bus I've ever driven and would happily spend a 5 and a half hour portion of a duty in. Can't say the same for the Scanias and E200. I'm also including the Diamond stuff I've driven in that list.
Omnilinks are better than any B7RLE imo, especially the Euro 4 ones! I do like B7RLE's.
Quote from: MW on July 23, 2018, 08:07:50 PM
The boring bit, fair enough. But the rest of that is not true. The B7RLE / Eclipse 2 are some of the best single deckers in the fleet. They're reliable, they're bright and airy inside and generally a good bus. To drive, they're definitely the best out of Scanias & E200 (both versions). The visibility and general smoothness of them is spot on. Best single deck bus I've ever driven and would happily spend a 5 and a half hour portion of a duty in. Can't say the same for the Scanias and E200. I'm also including the Diamond stuff I've driven in that list.
Sorry but I can't let that one go, Bright and airy? There is no ventilation at all towards the back, in weather like this it is torture! Everything is dull grey with poor lighting.. and the seats are too squashed in, the back ends are very cramped. The only comfortable seat I've found is the one next to the emergency door which is usually already taken! The E200MMC is more brighter, fresher and pleasant inside, helped even more when the back windows aren't covered in branding!
Just goes to show the world of a driver is 100% different to the world of a passenger.
Quote from: Jack on July 23, 2018, 08:23:41 PM
Omnilinks are better than any B7RLE imo
Here here!
Quote from: V89MOA on July 23, 2018, 08:24:45 PM
Sorry but I can't let that one go, Bright and airy? There is no ventilation at all towards the back, in weather like this it is torture! Everything is dull grey with poor lighting.. and the seats are too squashed in, the back ends are very cramped. The only comfortable seat I've found is the one next to the emergency door which is usually already taken! The E200MMC is more brighter, fresher and pleasant inside, helped even more when the back windows aren't covered in branding!
Just goes to show the world of a driver is 100% different to the world of a passenger.
The E200 MMC are just as bad as an E200. The legroom on the back seat is terrible. I'd some much have the Urban 2's and Omnilinks return to the (well now) 4. Each to their own, everyone has different opinions.
Quote from: Jack on July 23, 2018, 08:23:41 PM
Omnilinks are better than any B7RLE imo, especially the Euro 4 ones! I do like B7RLE's.
Your off your rocker. Omnilinks are cramped slow, boring and the doors take for years. B7RLES are better in every way I'm with MW on this one obviously I can't say much about driving but from a passenger perspective
Quote from: Jack on July 23, 2018, 08:27:41 PM
The E200 MMC are just as bad as an E200. The legroom on the back seat is terrible. I'd some much have the Urban 2's and Omnilinks return to the (well now) 4. Each to their own, everyone has different opinions.
The legroom is the one thing that lets them down I'll agree, but this is the same with most modern buses now it would seem, they do still feel much less claustrophobic than the heaps on the X64 though. MMC's are a world apart from E200 classic though on so many levels....
Quote from: V89MOA on July 23, 2018, 08:24:45 PM
...
Just goes to show the world of a driver is 100% different to the world of a passenger.
I think evidence enough in the last few posts the world of one person is 100% different to the world of another. Some passengers like them some don't, some drivers do some don't.
Personally I think they're infinitely better than Scanias (at least NXWM Scanias) much better legroom, smoother ride, brighter, airy. E200s perhaps nicer environment but the ride feels much less smooth.
Again, just personal opinion.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 23, 2018, 08:28:40 PM
Your off your rocker. Omnilinks are cramped slow, boring and the doors take for years. B7RLES are better in every way I'm with MW on this one obviously I can't say much about driving but from a passenger perspective
I've had Omnilinks on my locals for 9/10 years now. Yes cramped, but they aren't slow at all I've ridden enough on late 28's and they can fly down roads. When drivers put their foot down they really move. The doors don't take as long as some of the later Tridents. But that's because I'm more regular on them. My personal opinion.
Quote from: V89MOA on July 23, 2018, 08:32:44 PM
The legroom is the one thing that lets them down I'll agree, but this is the same with most modern buses now it would seem, they do still feel much less claustrophobic than the heaps on the X64 though. MMC's are a world apart from E200 classic though on so many levels....
The E200 MMC's have crap suspension still. You bounce out of your seat on the speed bumps on Walford Road on the Warwick Road diversion! The E200 MMC's are boring, they sound ok but if I lived on them I'd probably be bored of them in days! I'm grateful I have Omnilinks on my locals!
The main reason the Omnilinks (Omnicitys too) are hated is because they have bad legroom and the doors (which aren't even that slow)!
I do like Urban 2's, they are nice fast and clean buses as are Urban 1's. Thing I don't like about Urban 1's is the state of the interiors in some of them. Not about seats etc but the state of grime on walls, floors and ceilings. They do need a 'deep' clean.
Quote from: V89MOA on July 23, 2018, 08:24:45 PM
Sorry but I can't let that one go, Bright and airy? There is no ventilation at all towards the back, in weather like this it is torture! Everything is dull grey with poor lighting.. and the seats are too squashed in, the back ends are very cramped. The only comfortable seat I've found is the one next to the emergency door which is usually already taken! The E200MMC is more brighter, fresher and pleasant inside, helped even more when the back windows aren't covered in branding!
Just goes to show the world of a driver is 100% different to the world of a passenger.
I agree with that. The only good seat really. Though the Scanias are even worse. My legs are killing me after riding one of those.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 23, 2018, 08:46:51 PM
I agree with that. The only good seat really. Though the Scanias are even worse. My legs are killing me after riding one of those.
Same can be said for me on the E200 MMC's. You have sit in an awkward position meaning your legs can't be straight!
The interior of the Eclipse 2 is absolutely miles better than a Scania. As a passenger I don't understand why the Scanias are favoured. The suspension on them is bouncy as f*ck. Legroom is worse on the Scanias except the emergency door. Legroom tbh is a problem I have with every single bus I've been on, bar some of the Metrobus seats. There's more light in the interior of the Eclipses than the other two. Probably due to the fact that the windows are massive. I remember driving a Scania and an Eclipse back to back when I was route training. As soon as I got into the Eclipse, without even driving, it felt so much better. All round visibility was the first thing I noticed.
As a passenger, the ride quality is far superior on the Volvo. The power delivery on the Volvo is also excellent. They're gearbox and drive train set up, although boring, is perfect. They have plenty of low down torque to pull away swiftly. They really are fast. As a passenger, loud and high revving makes you think you're going fast. Trust me, the B7RLEs are fast. I'm sure the few PE/WA drivers on here will be able to confirm this. The Scanias are fast too but you lose too much time with them damn doors and the suspension just dies my head in. Constantly up and down.
Each to their own of course. We all have our own opinions. I think they're most definitely not heaps and are very good buses. Best single deckers in the NXWM fleet currently.
Quote from: MW on July 23, 2018, 09:48:03 PM
The interior of the Eclipse 2 is absolutely miles better than a Scania. As a passenger I don't understand why the Scanias are favoured. The suspension on them is bouncy as f*ck. Legroom is worse on the Scanias except the emergency door. Legroom tbh is a problem I have with every single bus I've been on, bar some of the Metrobus seats. There's more light in the interior of the Eclipses than the other two. Probably due to the fact that the windows are massive. I remember driving a Scania and an Eclipse back to back when I was route training. As soon as I got into the Eclipse, without even driving, it felt so much better. All round visibility was the first thing I noticed.
As a passenger, the ride quality is far superior on the Volvo. The power delivery on the Volvo is also excellent. They're gearbox and drive train set up, although boring, is perfect. They have plenty of low down torque to pull away swiftly. They really are fast. As a passenger, loud and high revving makes you think you're going fast. Trust me, the B7RLEs are fast. I'm sure the few PE/WA drivers on here will be able to confirm this. The Scanias are fast too but you lose too much time with them damn doors and the suspension just dies my head in. Constantly up and down.
Each to their own of course. We all have our own opinions. I think they're most definitely not heaps and are very good buses. Best single deckers in the NXWM fleet currently.
The B7RLE's are by far my favourite type of bus in the fleet, closely followed by ZF E400MMCs.
Why Walsall use the Scanias on Sundays over the B7Lre beats me!
Quote from: Westy on July 23, 2018, 10:01:25 PM
Why Walsall use the Scanias on Sundays over the B7Lre beats me!
Less fuel use than Urban 1's and better than Urban 2's. And very reliable, they don't have grubby and depressing interiors. Like Urban 1's and 2's.
Quote from: Dom on July 23, 2018, 09:50:31 PM
The B7RLE's are by far my favourite type of bus in the fleet, closely followed by ZF E400MMCs.
I know what you are trying to do...
Quote from: Jack on July 23, 2018, 10:02:48 PM
Less fuel use than Urban 1's and better than Urban 2's. And very reliable, they don't have grubby and depressing interiors.
I know what you are trying to do...
Well I find the omnilinks interiors very dark not helped by the windows plastered in advertisement granted but still. I wouldn't say there that reliable I've seen a fair few broken down the past couple of weeks. One the other day was smoking badly up coombswood!! Urban 1 whilst they sound good they are a bit tatty still, the light blue walls don't help!
Quote from: Jack on July 23, 2018, 10:02:48 PM
I know what you are trying to do...
Eh? I've said for a very very long time that they are. I've always said how I prefer the ZF variant of the MMCs not the voith variant.
Quote from: Dom on July 23, 2018, 10:11:24 PM
Eh? I've said for a very very long time that they are. I've always said how I prefer the ZF variant of the MMCs not the voith variant.
How come? The Voith's are tons better than the ZF slugs.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 23, 2018, 10:09:49 PM
Well I find the omnilinks interiors very dark not helped by the windows plastered in advertisement granted but still. I wouldn't say there that reliable I've seen a fair few broken down the past couple of weeks. One the other day was smoking badly up coombswood!! Urban 1 whilst they sound good they are a bit tatty still, the light blue walls don't help!
Better than B7RLE. The B7RLE break down more than the Omnilinks I've noticed.
Quote from: Jack on July 23, 2018, 10:16:56 PM
How come? The Voith's are tons better than the ZF slugs.
I beg to differ, having had Voith E400MMCs on my local route since they were introduced I find them slow to accelerate, change gear at low revs, a lot more jolts from a voith gearbox compared to a ZF imo. The stop start is unreliable, the ammount of times I've had stop start fail is disgraceful for a 66 plate vehicle (Dig at voith not NX).
ZF's are faster, smoother and is just all round a better gearbox.
Quote from: Dom on July 23, 2018, 10:20:04 PM
I beg to differ, having had Voith E400MMCs on my local route since they were introduced I find them slow to accelerate, change gear at low revs, a lot more jolts from a voith gearbox compared to a ZF imo. The stop start is unreliable, the ammount of times I've had stop start fail is disgraceful for a 66 plate vehicle (Dig at voith not NX).
ZF's are faster, smoother and is just all round a better gearbox.
The Voith are better than the ZF crap I have on my local route. The drivers say theyare sluggish (which they are) and dangerous at busy roundabouts with their slow pull off and crap acceleration. Jolts from ZF is awful.
I'd rather have Voith MMC's. ZF gearbox in these are too juddery and boring. Personal opinion of them. Also I always here a distinct Voith Trident whine I'm them too!
I've travelled on my fair share of ZF MMCs and they really aren't outstanding. There's a select few that can actually shift. The ride quality is average certainly not as good as a streetdeck, however the braking on these things is very very good. A lot depends on the driver too I suppose. For example I had 6713 or 6715 couldn't tell as the upstairs fleet number had been ripped off slightly. And I recognised this guy from driving the 9 before and he certainly didn't hang around with this bus, pulling straight into the outside lane as soon as leaving bearwood interchange.
The voith ones I haven't travelled on another to get a good grasp of them however I prefer the engine noise of the voith
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 23, 2018, 10:39:38 PM
I've travelled on my fair share of ZF MMCs and they really aren't outstanding. There's a select few that can actually shift. The ride quality is average certainly not as good as a streetdeck, however the braking on these things is very very good. A lot depends on the driver too I suppose. For example I had 6713 or 6715 couldn't tell as the upstairs fleet number had been ripped off slightly. And I recognised this guy from driving the 9 before and he certainly didn't hang around with this bus, pulling straight into the outside lane as soon as leaving bearwood interchange.
The voith ones I haven't travelled on another to get a good grasp of them however I prefer the engine noise of the voith
Barely any at Walsall's can shift, only 6729 and 6735. AG's can shift very well. But the MMC body looks much better than Streetdeck body. I've never ridden a Streetdeck so I can't judge them performance wise.
I've not ridden any of the new (67 plate) Platinums, but seeing videos they look just as good as the 16/66 plates. But I'd rather get one on the X1/2 to see what they idle like on the Small Heath Bypass.
Regarding the rubbish above about the Volvo's all I can do is quote myself and say "It's like talking to Trump's wall." Each to their own.
Bringing the topic back on course is there an actual reason the 18s now say via Kings Heath? Even the bit by the 50 I'd say was pushing it...
Quote from: V89MOA on July 24, 2018, 10:07:55 AMBringing the topic back on course is there an actual reason the 18s now say via Kings Heath? Even the bit by the 50 I'd say was pushing it...
This is what I was thinking yesterday. What was wrong with via Cotteridge, Northfield & Bangham Pit? Just seems like a a stupid thing to change in my opinion.
Quote from: Bus1237 on July 23, 2018, 05:13:17 PM
I noticed yesterday that the number 4 did a short journey from Solihull to Acocks Green but rather than saying 4E it just said short journey underneath? Wouldn't it just be clearer to say E?
Claribels have been doing this for years and i've never heard of/seen anyone get confused with them doing it, or seen anyone complaining about them not showing an E on the display.
eg they display:
(94 Bacons End.
Short Journey).
I've also seen this in the past when they were on the 55 all day:
(55 Kingshurst
Short Journey).
Social Travel also used to just display 11C Bearwood rather than 11E Bearwood.
Surely "Short Journey" is just as clear as showing and "E", they both mean exactly the same thing.
Quote from: 2206 on July 24, 2018, 04:32:53 PM
Claribels have been doing this for years and i've never heard of/seen anyone get confused with them doing it, or seen anyone complaining about them not showing an E on the display.
Surely "Short Journey" is just as clear as showing and "E", they both mean exactly the same thing.
A lot of people simply don't look at the displays though. Yesterday evening, I got off an 11E at Acocks Green village, and it was still showing 11E Acocks Green on the displays, and as I stepped off, the driver was calling out 'last stop' to those passengers on board still sitting down. Yet there were people waiting at the stop and trying to get on, one woman started to get irate with the driver asking "what bus is this then, is this the 11?"
Honestly, if I fancied getting into a disagreement myself I'd have gone over to her and pointed to the side display myself.
A few minutes later, another bus pulled up, showing "Not In Service", just in front of another 11A displaying "Outer Circle". As it happened, the out of service bus was starting a trip, rather than finishing, but before the driver had even changed the display, as soon as the door opened, people were stepping on board.
Makes you wonder sometimes how these people ever get to where they want to go. And they're usually the first ones to complain when service numbers change!
Quote from: Stu on July 24, 2018, 05:46:16 PM
A lot of people simply don't look at the displays though. Yesterday evening, I got off an 11E at Acocks Green village, and it was still showing 11E Acocks Green on the displays, and as I stepped off, the driver was calling out 'last stop' to those passengers on board still sitting down. Yet there were people waiting at the stop and trying to get on, one woman started to get irate with the driver asking "what bus is this then, is this the 11?"
Honestly, if I fancied getting into a disagreement myself I'd have gone over to her and pointed to the side display myself.
A few minutes later, another bus pulled up, showing "Not In Service", just in front of another 11A displaying "Outer Circle". As it happened, the out of service bus was starting a trip, rather than finishing, but before the driver had even changed the display, as soon as the door opened, people were stepping on board.
Makes you wonder sometimes how these people ever get to where they want to go. And they're usually the first ones to complain when service numbers change!
Yes, I agree a lot of people don't look at the display.
There are usually plenty of passenger who try to get on a 11E after the bus has terminated and plenty who remain seated on the bus as well. I've seen people trying to get on a bus that has "Not In Service" on the display in the past as well.
I've been on 11E's in the past where some people just sit there even after the driver has called out last stop and some don't seem to even realise after the bus has turned around on its way back to the garage.
Plus I once got on a 28 (that had come from Small Heath) and as it went down Belchers Lane there were quite a few passengers asking "if its the 17" and "if its going to the City Centre and why it was going that way", etc, when it clearly said 28 Great Barr on the front.
Is the 31 terminating at Solihull station now. I was 4528 outside the station stop with 'Acocks Green' on the front but empty with the lights off, I can't seem to find any 31 stops on Poplar Roaf
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 24, 2018, 09:25:00 PM
Is the 31 terminating at Solihull station now. I was 4528 outside the station stop with 'Acocks Green' on the front but empty with the lights off, I can't seem to find any 31 stops on Poplar Roaf
Yes it is, I can't see it lasting long to be honest.
Quote from: V89MOA on July 24, 2018, 10:16:26 PM
Yes it is, I can't see it lasting long to be honest.
How come, whats the reason for this?
It is a bit strange that it'd serve the railway station and not the town centre, i'd have thought there'd be more passengers on that route wanting to go to the town centre than the railway station.
If anything i'd have thought it'd be better of serving the town centre and not the railway station.
On the other hand, I suppose its not that far of a walk away and there is an alternative as there are pleanty of buses you can change onto that operate every 30 seconds or so (6, 49, X2, 72, 76, etc).
But if the passengers want the town centre then it does seem rather inconvenient.
From what i've seen the X2 and 72 certianly tend to empty at the Town Centre and then carry on to the Railway Station with just 1 or 2 passengers left onboard
Quote from: V89MOA on July 24, 2018, 10:16:26 PM
Yes it is, I can't see it lasting long to be honest.
My assumption would be so that it could be run with 2 buses. It's almost like they're expecting it to fail by not extending it to the Town Centre
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 24, 2018, 10:23:59 PM
My assumption would be so that it could be run with 2 buses. It's almost like they're expecting it to fail by not extending it to the Town Centre
Or hoping it will...
I can see it going by the end of the year and modifications being made to the 4A to serve Shirley somehow.
So. First ride out on the new network
Re The Vale, yes the X20/22 do use Edgbaston Park Road, at least the last 4 I've seen going past me have, so unless that whole stretch is designated as the "flexible route" I don't see why they couldn't stop there. The X21 will be very busy come September otherwise
Wheeleys Road and Arthur Road stops still show 98/X64 inbound. Frankly those ones should have been priority to at least peel off considering they now have no service
Also Ashill Road and Edgewood Road are far more sensible for large buses than Leach Green Lane, leave the latter for the minibuses on the 19
So I thought I'd give this X21 a go ahead of returning to work next week and noticed the following things.
1) The driver used Kemberton Road inbound when he should have used Alwold Road.
2) There seemed to be people waiting at the stop adjacent to Gibbins Road, only to be bemused when it flew past as it doesn't stop there anymore for some daft reason.
3) Customers still seem unware that the X20/X22 don't stop along the Vale.
4) It took roughly 5 minutes stuck in traffic to navigate Wellington Road. This at midday.
5) The driver let someone off by the O2 Academy even though it doesn't stop there.
Additionally all 5 routes have just arrived at the terminus. Looks like 2 of them had to leave to make room for 2 more.
Yes, the NWM map also showed that the X20 and X22 would go past the Vale in both directions. It does seem odd that neither of them stop there.
Did NXWM do a U-turn on some of the service changes between the original information being officially publish and the timetables coming out. I am sure the original info stated the 63 would terminate at Compton Road (the old 61 terminus), but the timetables now show no change to the route.
Quote from: MW on July 23, 2018, 06:05:47 PM
All of the AG/BC/YW destinations seem to have been changed.
Seems like the X70 and 97 have escaped this stupid change so far.
Currently on WB 4268 on the 48, driver hasn't got a clue where he's going, completely missed Cropredy Road despite it being directly ahead of him, passengers shouting at him probably isn't helping matters
8 mins late by Hawkesley doesn't bode well for the rest of the route
-- EDIT --
Apparently there's a diversion, just no one told all the passengers either on board or at the bus stops
Quote from: Kevin on July 25, 2018, 02:01:08 PM
Currently on WB 4268 on the 48, driver hasn't got a clue where he's going, completely missed Cropredy Road despite it being directly ahead of him, passengers shouting at him probably isn't helping matters
I feel for any driver on that horrid route now.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 25, 2018, 01:18:00 PM
So I thought I'd give this X21 a go ahead of returning to work next week and noticed the following things.
1) The driver used Kemberton Road inbound when he should have used Alwold Road.
2) There seemed to be people waiting at the stop adjacent to Gibbins Road, only to be bemused when it flew past as it doesn't stop there anymore for some daft reason.
....
Mine just did the same route but I'm not sure that was ever a change in the first place? The Gibbins Road stop is a curious one for me, never used to be that busy but with no bus along the road itself you'd think it'll get busier now. Is this the bit where the X21 earns the X in the number?
Quote from: Kevin on July 25, 2018, 04:34:00 PM
Mine just did the same route but I'm not sure that was ever a change in the first place? The Gibbins Road stop is a curious one for me, never used to be that busy but with no bus along the road itself you'd think it'll get busier now. Is this the bit where the X21 earns the X in the number?
Yeah I think it is supposed to go there. I was going off the original convoluted map provided by NX, but the other map shows this is correct.
As for those stops, no I wouldn't say they were overly busy exactly but I don't see the point in removing them. What does it achieve? Same with the Kemberton Road stops inbound.
It'll be interesting to see whether the stops by Gibbins Road are reinstated when the new Selly Oak shopping centre opens.
With regards to the the X21 and it's X, this makes interesting reading:
"The X21 is currently on a temporary diversion into town, until the new bus gate is built we are unable to run services into town along Bath Row."
So will the X21 become the 21 at that point? Because it certainly won't be express in any sense of the word.
Also why wasn't this made clear from the off? Rather than having to respond to questions about it.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 25, 2018, 01:45:22 PM
Seems like the X70 and 97 have escaped this stupid change so far.
The 11A/C hasn't changed either.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 25, 2018, 04:47:13 PM
...
With regards to the the X21 and it's X, this makes interesting reading:
"The X21 is currently on a temporary diversion into town, until the new bus gate is built we are unable to run services into town along Bath Row."
So will the X21 become the 21 at that point? Because it certainly won't be express in any sense of the word.
Also why wasn't this made clear from the off? Rather than having to respond to questions about it.
This is useful information, agreed this could have done with being out there before the changes were implemented
Any gen on where exactly the bus gate will be? Logic would say next to Five Ways station where the route cross outbound but don't really see space for an inbound lane there
Quote from: 2206 on July 25, 2018, 05:45:41 PM
The 11A/C hasn't changed either.
Nor the 14 or 60 from what I can tell. I still don't see why they can't add the scrolling display onto this new style.
Quote from: Kevin on July 25, 2018, 05:47:57 PM
This is useful information, agreed this could have done with being out there before the changes were implemented
Any gen on where exactly the bus gate will be? Logic would say next to Five Ways station where the route cross outbound but don't really see space for an inbound lane there
It was mentioned on here a while ago that they were considering it. But there'd been no word of it for ages and obviously these changes were made to the 98/X64 so naturally you think it isn't happening anymore. I believe the idea was to go down George Road straight into Bath Row rather than around the Five Ways island.
Quote from: Kevin on July 25, 2018, 05:47:57 PM
This is useful information, agreed this could have done with being out there before the changes were implemented
Any gen on where exactly the bus gate will be? Logic would say next to Five Ways station where the route cross outbound but don't really see space for an inbound lane there
George Road.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 25, 2018, 05:49:01 PM
It was mentioned on here a while ago that they were considering it. But there'd been no word of it for ages and obviously these changes were made to the 98/X64 so naturally you think it isn't happening anymore. I believe the idea was to go down George Road straight into Bath Row rather than around the Five Ways island.
The road schemes that were proposed are here - https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk/economy/citycentreroadimprovements/
Quote from: 2206 on July 25, 2018, 06:01:37 PM
The information about the proposed road schemes is here -
https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk/economy/citycentreroadimprovements/
Yeah that's the old article, the one mentioning the 98/X64.
Quote from: Kevin on July 25, 2018, 10:07:45 AM
So. First ride out on the new network
Re The Vale, yes the X20/22 do use Edgbaston Park Road, at least the last 4 I've seen going past me have, so unless that whole stretch is designated as the "flexible route" I don't see why they couldn't stop there. The X21 will be very busy come September otherwise
Wheeleys Road and Arthur Road stops still show 98/X64 inbound. Frankly those ones should have been priority to at least peel off considering they now have no service
Also Ashill Road and Edgewood Road are far more sensible for large buses than Leach Green Lane, leave the latter for the minibuses on the 19
May I ask, what were loadings on the X22 like? Appreciate it was daytime and school summer hols. The 23 has been disproportionately busy in the peaks this week when I've used it, not helped by groups of 23s and 24s travelling in convoy. Seen quite a few people changing in Harborne to wait for a 27, now they can no longer catch a single bus home.
Quote from: Mike K on July 25, 2018, 06:37:14 PM
May I ask, what were loadings on the X22 like? Appreciate it was daytime and school summer hols. The 23 has been disproportionately busy in the peaks this week when I've used it, not helped by groups of 23s and 24s travelling in convoy. Seen quite a few people changing in Harborne to wait for a 27, now they can no longer catch a single bus home.
Didnt ride one, but seeing them various points through the day:
First off peak buses inbound (pretty much, ~09:50 through The Vale) seemed no busier than normal city bound buses at that time, but already bunched up, saw 3 pass by in maybe 5 minutes
About 15:30 around Stonehouse Hill they seemed more on time and quieter but of course no schools atm so can't tell what'd become of that
By 5pm they seemed bunched again but not overly full, just before rush hour proper though so again can't really guess
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/links/hospitals/queen-elizabeth-hospital
Fair to say that this page needs updating.
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 25, 2018, 08:27:00 PM
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/links/hospitals/queen-elizabeth-hospital
Fair to say that this page needs updating.
Heartlands needs updating still from the East B'ham changes last year as well.
It still says the 73 stops on Yardley Green Road, whereas it now stops closer to the entrance on Bordesley Green East.
It says the 97A stops on Bordesley Green East, thought the Airport 97A extension was witdrawn last year.
And where it links to associated routes, it links to the 28B, no 28's have used that route number for some time.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/links/hospitals/heartlands-hospital
The map shows the 73 goes to the City Centre and at a 30 minute frequency as well, though it no longer does..
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/maps/Hospital-maps-2017/GettingtoHeartlandshospital2017.pdf
And Solihull which still mentions the 71 and 966.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/links/hospitals/solihull-hospital-heartlands-nhs-trust
The map still shows the 58, 72, and 73 going to the City Centre. It shows the old 70, S1, 71 and 966 routes.
Plus the 37 has been renumbered 4.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/maps/Hospital-maps-2017/NXWMgettingtoSolihullhospital2017.pdf
Quote from: Kevin on July 25, 2018, 07:37:31 PM
Didnt ride one, but seeing them various points through the day:
First off peak buses inbound (pretty much, ~09:50 through The Vale) seemed no busier than normal city bound buses at that time, but already bunched up, saw 3 pass by in maybe 5 minutes
About 15:30 around Stonehouse Hill they seemed more on time and quieter but of course no schools atm so can't tell what'd become of that
By 5pm they seemed bunched again but not overly full, just before rush hour proper though so again can't really guess
Good to hear that these new direct express services which avoid all the traffic black spots are running so reliably ;)
I had a thought earlier while feeling for the bus drivers who all seem to be getting in the neck.
If they wanted improved journey times in to and from city, why didn't they just take the routes they have modified, double the old frequency and put in an 'X' limited stop inbetween... an example - 98, let's say the frequency was every 10 minutes
Why not have a 98 (renumbered 20) every 20 minutes and a new X20 every 20 minutes, interworking so every 10 but the 20 did the old route, to keep the regulars and shorted distance passengers happy, but the X service becomes very limited stop, Rednal, Longbridge, Northfield, Selly Oak, University and Birmingham - nothing inbetween. VERY basic concept I know, but would be the best of both worlds and keep old passengers happy while hopefully attracting new....
Do this on the old 22, 29, 61, 98, X64.
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 26, 2018, 12:30:52 AM
I had a thought earlier while feeling for the bus drivers who all seem to be getting in the neck.
If they wanted improved journey times in to and from city, why didn't they just take the routes they have modified, double the old frequency and put in an 'X' limited stop inbetween... an example - 98, let's say the frequency was every 10 minutes
Why not have a 98 (renumbered 20) every 20 minutes and a new X20 every 20 minutes, interworking so every 10 but the 20 did the old route, to keep the regulars and shorted distance passengers happy, but the X service becomes very limited stop, Rednal, Longbridge, Northfield, Selly Oak, University and Birmingham - nothing inbetween. VERY basic concept I know, but would be the best of both worlds and keep old passengers happy while hopefully attracting new....
Do this on the old 22, 29, 61, 98, X64.
Would that increased frequency be commercially viable though as that would mean even more buses along those routes.
As NX will be trying to make a profit.
I think a lot of routes are going to suffer capacity wise when the schools go back
A single deck every 20 mins Northfield - Weoley Castle - Harborne is not going to cope, yes it might have time built into the schedule to cope with people cramming on (waited time at Castle Square yesterday 6 minutes) but I really don't think it has enough capacity
The 4 through to Solihull will suffer with single decks on a reduced frequency, which one would assume they'll use as they're branded for it
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 26, 2018, 12:30:52 AM
I had a thought earlier while feeling for the bus drivers who all seem to be getting in the neck.
If they wanted improved journey times in to and from city, why didn't they just take the routes they have modified, double the old frequency and put in an 'X' limited stop inbetween... an example - 98, let's say the frequency was every 10 minutes
Why not have a 98 (renumbered 20) every 20 minutes and a new X20 every 20 minutes, interworking so every 10 but the 20 did the old route, to keep the regulars and shorted distance passengers happy, but the X service becomes very limited stop, Rednal, Longbridge, Northfield, Selly Oak, University and Birmingham - nothing inbetween. VERY basic concept I know, but would be the best of both worlds and keep old passengers happy while hopefully attracting new....
Do this on the old 22, 29, 61, 98, X64.
In my view the answer to the problem on this side of the city lies in the proposed bus priority measures, not in diverting routes via the QE then non stop into city. I used to drive into town for years when I had free parking and tried every rat run imaginable to avoid Harborne Road. Edgbaston Park Road, Wellington Road etc can all be a nightmare as everyone has the same idea. The bus gate at George Road and the proposed bus lane, which I'm told will run from Kingscote Road / Harborne Road all the way to Five Ways would massively improve rush hour journey times into city. They could have waited until these changes were implemented and seen the effects of them before making such drastic service changes (although these still won't solve the Smallbrook Queensway nightmare).
On the subject of the new routes, and I may be proved completely wrong on this, I wonder about the viability of the X22. Unlike the X20, it doesn't serve any busy commercial centres like Selly Oak, Northfield and Longbridge. I'm sure that the city to QE section will be busy enough and at peak times it will be busy with school kids, especially pupils at KE Five Ways, but that aside, other than the QE / University it's for linking the housing estates and residential areas of Bartley Green to the city. I guess you can change for the 11 at Harborne Park Road but that's about it.
The 23 on the other hand sees large amounts of people getting on and off throughout the section from Lordswood Road, through Harborne and Harborne Academy, Five Ways (a very busy stop) along Broad St and down to Brindley Place and Centenary Square. Lots of busy areas where people need to get to throughout the day and night.
I can see the X22 being quiet outside of rush hour. Time will tell I guess - now I've said this it will probably be increased to every 15 mins in 6 months time...
Quote from: Mike K on July 26, 2018, 11:23:14 AMThe bus gate at George Road and the proposed bus lane, which I'm told will run from Kingscote Road / Harborne Road all the way to Five Ways would massively improve rush hour journey times into city. They could have waited until these changes were implemented and seen the effects of them before making such drastic service changes (although these still won't solve the Smallbrook Queensway nightmare).
This is pretty much what I said to them during the consultation. If they're going to go through with these measures why not test them out first and then make changes if necessary? Moving a route from one road to another into the City right now makes no difference whatsoever. It doesn't matter if you have 4 routes, 2 or even 1 along the Harborne Road for example, they're still going through the same traffic. It's about traffic control, not rerouting services that people depend on. Banning cars from Broad Street, creating more bus lanes etc. Smallbrook Queensway is a good example of the point. You need to find ways to eradicate or at least diminish the amount of traffic build up around these areas. Until you do that, no amount of fiddling about with routes will make the slightest bit of difference.
The NXWM facebook page makes for very interesting comments on the South Birmingham changes from the general public.
One lady is (quite rightly) complained that whilst you can travel from Wheeleys Road / Arthur Road to the QE, you are unable to return. NXWM PR has replied stating they are "unable" to serve the opposite direction until the bus gate is in place and have suggested that in order to return back from the QE passengers should travel on the X21 to Smallbrook Queensway cross the road then catch the X21 heading towards Weoley Castle. I don't know why the X21 couldn't have continued to serve Five Ways as per the old X64 / 98.
Also I'm not sure how long the Simmons Drive change on the 24 route will last. There are no bus stops installed on the opposite side of the Simmons Drive / Highfield Road yet, and the new part served can be particularly tight due to low hanging trees on the one side and parked cars on the other.
Quote from: sonic84 on July 27, 2018, 01:12:47 PM
The NXWM facebook page makes for very interesting comments on the South Birmingham changes from the general public.
One lady is (quite rightly) complained that whilst you can travel from Wheeleys Road / Arthur Road to the QE, you are unable to return. NXWM PR has replied stating they are "unable" to serve the opposite direction until the bus gate is in place and have suggested that in order to return back from the QE passengers should travel on the X21 to Smallbrook Queensway cross the road then catch the X21 heading towards Weoley Castle. I don't know why the X21 couldn't have continued to serve Five Ways as per the old X64 / 98.
Yeah that's where I got my quote about the X21 diversion from. That woman has every right to be angry. Bit of shoddy state of affairs when you're having to get the bus back into town and then crossing over to get it back the way just to get back home. In all honesty I don't see why it couldn't have either and just numbered it the 21 as they have no intention of upgrading it anyway to a proper express route.
Quote from: sonic84 on July 27, 2018, 01:12:47 PM
Also I'm not sure how long the Simmons Drive change on the 24 route will last. There are no bus stops installed on the opposite side of the Simmons Drive / Highfield Road yet, and the new part served can be particularly tight due to low hanging trees on the one side and parked cars on the other.
There are temporary bus stop signs at the moment. I would like it to be remained but I do agree about the parked cars and there is also restricted view. Otherwise, I heard positive feedbacks and surprised to see decent amount of people getting on the bus on the opposite side of the Simmons Drive / Highfield Road in it's first day!
I even saw regulars on the 244 getting on the 24 instead.
Quote from: sonic84 on July 27, 2018, 01:12:47 PM
The NXWM facebook page makes for very interesting comments on the South Birmingham changes from the general public.
One lady is (quite rightly) complained that whilst you can travel from Wheeleys Road / Arthur Road to the QE, you are unable to return. NXWM PR has replied stating they are "unable" to serve the opposite direction until the bus gate is in place and have suggested that in order to return back from the QE passengers should travel on the X21 to Smallbrook Queensway cross the road then catch the X21 heading towards Weoley Castle. I don't know why the X21 couldn't have continued to serve Five Ways as per the old X64 / 98.
Also I'm not sure how long the Simmons Drive change on the 24 route will last. There are no bus stops installed on the opposite side of the Simmons Drive / Highfield Road yet, and the new part served can be particularly tight due to low hanging trees on the one side and parked cars on the other.
For 'unable' read 'unwilling'. Presumably the increase in inbound journey time would mean an increase in PVR. They were perfectly able to serve Arthur Road and Wheeleys Road inbound until last Saturday. It really is absurd that you can make journeys one way but not get back.
Quote from: Mike K on July 27, 2018, 05:33:26 PM
For 'unable' read 'unwilling'. Presumably the increase in inbound journey time would mean an increase in PVR. They were perfectly able to serve Arthur Road and Wheeleys Road inbound until last Saturday. It really is absurd that you can make journeys one way but not get back.
Their excuse is 'congestion' around Five Ways, but the 98/X64 got around the island just fine thanks to the traffic lights. It was the 22/23/24/29 that got stuck on Five Ways. I wonder if all 3 routes will use this bus gate when it happens (whenever that is?), or whether it'll just be the 'X'21.
We're almost a week into the new changes and the bus stop timetables on Holly Lane still show the 48 as going via Weoley Castle
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 27, 2018, 08:40:16 PM
We're almost a week into the new changes and the bus stop timetables on Holly Lane still show the 48 as going via Weoley Castle
This isn't the only example within South Birmingham and it's a poor show considering TfWM recharge the costs to the Operator.
Quote from: sonic84 on July 27, 2018, 01:12:47 PM
The NXWM facebook page makes for very interesting comments on the South Birmingham changes from the general public.
One lady is (quite rightly) complained that whilst you can travel from Wheeleys Road / Arthur Road to the QE, you are unable to return. NXWM PR has replied stating they are "unable" to serve the opposite direction until the bus gate is in place and have suggested that in order to return back from the QE passengers should travel on the X21 to Smallbrook Queensway cross the road then catch the X21 heading towards Weoley Castle. I don't know why the X21 couldn't have continued to serve Five Ways as per the old X64 / 98.
That is bonkers, so much for trying to encourage people to use Public Transport when, whilst they can get from a to b, to get back from b to a they have to go through x, or get off around The Vale & walk, likewise if they want to go the other way to the City Centre. :(
Worth pointing out if anyone complains about services too full into/out of Brum today its likely to have a lot to do with the Cross City line being closed south of New Street
Strangely enough the X21 seems to have next stop announcements. What's the point when they'll be using B7RLEs most of the time?
On the plus side the next stop is actually announced while leaving the previous stop now but it seems to be repeated 3 times.
Also what is actually going on with Kemberton Road? According to the stop list it isn't supposed to stop there inbound but now the stop at the bottom has been changed from 48/X64 to X21??
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 29, 2018, 06:17:39 PM
Strangely enough the X21 seems to have next stop announcements. What's the point
What a stupid question.
Quote from: Tony on July 29, 2018, 06:37:17 PM
What a stupid question.
How is it a stupid question?
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 29, 2018, 06:40:44 PM
How is it a stupid question?
So, because the buses have the equipment it shouldn't be used because they only do one day on there
Quote from: Tony on July 29, 2018, 08:30:18 PM
So, because the buses have the equipment it shouldn't be used because they only do one day on there
Will all of BC's routes be done then on the off chance they'll have a platinum on them?
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 29, 2018, 08:32:23 PM
Will all of BC's routes be done then on the off chance they'll have a platinum on them?
He has a point. Seems rather a waste creating announcements that rarely get used
According to the NX website the X20 etc now serve all stops along Holloway Head, Bath Row and Wheeleys Road outbound - which means none of them are very Limited Stop at all in that direction:
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/service-x20-
I'm still confused by these are they / aren't they express one way routes.
Making it up as they go along here...
Quote from: Mike K on August 01, 2018, 05:15:26 PM
According to the NX website the X20 etc now serve all stops along Holloway Head, Bath Row and Wheeleys Road outbound - which means none of them are very Limited Stop at all in that direction:
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/service-x20-
I'm still confused by these are they / aren't they express one way routes.
And it seems they'll be stopping at all stops inbound aswell it seems, upon request at the stop by Edgbaston Old Church, the stop by the ring road on the Bristol Road and by O2 Acadamy inbound.
On a separate but related note, it looks like work is underway on the George Road / Bath Row bus gate. I know the X21 is due to use this in-bound, will be interesting to see if the X20/22 will too.
Quote from: Mike K on August 01, 2018, 05:42:09 PM
On a separate but related note, it looks like work is underway on the George Road / Bath Row bus gate. I know the X21 is due to use this in-bound, will be interesting to see if the X20/22 will too.
I heard today it's hoped that the work will be finished by September.
As for Bath Row, I don't see why these services need to serve it any more than they already do. Pretty sure an every 10 min 80/A can cope with the other stops. Don't think they need to serve all of the stops on Wheeleys Road either.
Quote from: Mike K on August 01, 2018, 05:15:26 PM
According to the NX website the X20 etc now serve all stops along Holloway Head, Bath Row and Wheeleys Road outbound - which means none of them are very Limited Stop at all in that direction:
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/service-x20-
I'm still confused by these are they / aren't they express one way routes.
It's just getting comical at this point.
I think I already know the answer, but will B7RLEs gain branding for the X21?
I noticed on the University branding that it states "Up to every 5 mins", but how is that? Surely they'd all have to be every 15 mins for that to be the case?
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 01, 2018, 07:55:10 PM
I noticed on the University branding that it states "Up to every 5 mins", but how is that? Surely they'd all have to be every 15 mins for that to be the case?
Technically with the every 15 minute frequency of the X21, you're bound to get only a 5 minute gap between every 10 minute (combined) services on the X20/X22
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 01, 2018, 08:35:31 PM
Technically with the every 15 minute frequency of the X21, you're bound to get only a 5 minute gap between every 10 minute (combined) services on the X20/X22
I suppose so, yeah.
Going back to the topic of reinstated stops, it seems like the stops on Kemberton Road inbound, despite what the next stop announcements on the X21 say. They need to reinstate the stops on Harborne Lane adjacent to Gibbins Road though. People are always wanting to use them and they're right by the Battery Retail Park.
Also I can't see why the X21 couldn't have served Bartley Green. The link between Bartley Green and Weoley Castle / Selly Oak has stood for ages, and I cannot see what purpose cutting short at Woodcock Hill does anyone.
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 01, 2018, 08:35:31 PM
Technically with the every 15 minute frequency of the X21, you're bound to get only a 5 minute gap between every 10 minute (combined) services on the X20/X22
No, it doesn't.
X20/X21/X22 timetabled departures from the QE to the City Centre -
10:56, 11:06, 11:10, 11:16, 11:25, 11:26, 11:36, 11:40, 11:46, 11:55, 11:56, 12:06.
You can see this by looking at the timetable:
- 10 minute gap between 10:56 and 11:06.
- 9 minute gap between 11:16 and 11:25.
- 10 minute gap between 11:26 and 11:36.
Quote from: 2206 on August 01, 2018, 08:53:35 PM
No, it doesn't.
X20/X21/X22 timetabled departures from the QE to the City Centre -
10:56, 11:06, 11:10, 11:16, 11:25, 11:26, 11:36, 11:40, 11:46, 11:55, 11:56, 12:06.
You can see this by looking at the timetable:
- 10 minute gap between 10:56 and 11:06.
- 9 minute gap between 11:16 and 11:25.
- 10 minute gap between 11:26 and 11:36.
In the opposite direction, it does
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 01, 2018, 08:58:22 PM
In the opposite direction, it does
It doesn't because you can't make a combined every 5 minute frequency from a bus every 10 and and a bus every 15 minutes.
eg -
there's a 10 minute gap between the 11:10 X22 and 11:20 X20 and X21 (Which leave at the same time) from the City Centre.
Quote from: 2206 on August 01, 2018, 09:03:04 PM
It doesn't because you can't make a combined every 5 minute frequency from a bus every 10 and and a bus every 15 minutes.
eg -
there's a 10 minute gap between the 11:10 X22 and 11:20 X20 and X21 (Which leave at the same time) from the City Centre.
X21: 05, 20, 35, 50
X20/X22: 00, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50
up to every 5 minutes
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 01, 2018, 09:18:56 PM
X21: 05, 20, 35, 50
X20/X22: 00, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50
up to every 5 minutes
Yeah but there is:
a 10 minute gap between 11:10 and 11:20, 11:20 and 11:30, as well as 11:40 and 11:50.
So they aren't "up to every 5 minutes."
Quote from: 2206 on August 01, 2018, 09:23:40 PM
Yeah but there is:
a 10 minute gap between 11:10 and 11:20, 11:20 and 11:30, as well as 11:40 and 11:50.
So they aren't "up to every 5 minutes."
You know what 'up to' means right?
I did a ride from the city centre to University Station and back yesterday - an X22 both ways as it happened.
Outbound between Holloway Head and Pritchatts Road some bus stop flags showed X21, but not X20 or X22. This was in line with on-bus announcements on my X22, which said it would next stop at Pritchatts Road.
Coming back the on-bus announcement said (when we left Pritchatts Road) that the next stop would be Smallbrook Queensway. The bus stop opposite Edgbaston Old Church showed 1 and X21, but my X22 stopped there for a passenger who hailed us - which I took as being good customer service.
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 01, 2018, 09:27:40 PM
You know what 'up to' means right?
With 'Up to every 5 mins' you'd expect that to mean that buses run at that frequency over a part of the day, not some 5 minute and some 10 minute gaps in every hour. I think up to every 5 minutes is misleading here. Up to 10 buses an hour would be a more accurate description.
Quote from: Mike K on August 01, 2018, 10:16:20 PM
With 'Up to every 5 mins' you'd expect that to mean that buses run at that frequency over a part of the day, not some 5 minute and some 10 minute gaps in every hour. I think up to every 5 minutes is misleading here. Up to 10 buses an hour would be a more accurate description.
I agree, it is misleading (although technically correct), I'm surprised they included the X21 in the branding when it's predominantly allocated B7RLEs
I took 'up to' to mean up to a maximum waiting time of...
So I'd have thought it'd be more like up to every 10 minutes. But fair enough!
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 01, 2018, 11:25:13 PM
I took 'up to' to mean up to a maximum waiting time of...
So I'd have thought it'd be more like up to every 10 minutes. But fair enough!
It's actually the opposite, minimum waiting time. The 301 & 302 are 'up to' every 3 mins, when the maximum waiting time is 6 minutes
They can't intepret it as maximum waiting times. It doesn't make business sense to do that. If they did, would they have to use early morning/late night frequencies? So say a route is every 5 mins during the day and 30 mins in the evening. Would they put 'upto every 30 mins?'
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2018, 12:26:33 AM
They can't intepret it as maximum waiting times. It doesn't make business sense to do that. If they did, would they have to use early morning/late night frequencies? So say a route is every 5 mins during the day and 30 mins in the evening. Would they put 'upto every 30 mins?'
Well no because it says Mon-Sat daytime.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 02, 2018, 06:34:08 AM
Well no because it says Mon-Sat daytime.
All this reminds me of:
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/eurostar-gatwick-express-advertising-standards-authority-claims-29-fares-train-times-a8471866.html
I wonder what the ASA would have to say about it?
In a case like this my suggestion would be for the branding to loose the 'Up to' and instead simply state 'Every 5-10 minutes Mon to Sat daytimes'. Might not have quite the same hook, but it's correct and less open to interpretation.
Quote from: Busmapper on August 05, 2018, 09:57:30 PM
In a case like this my suggestion would be for the branding to loose the 'Up to' and instead simply state 'Every 5-10 minutes Mon to Sat daytimes'. Might not have quite the same hook, but it's correct and less open to interpretation.
Yes this would be more appropriate.
Is the 4 serving Olton Station now?! The stop at Olton Station towards Solihull has the 4 & 58 on the flag
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2018, 03:12:55 PM
Is the 4 serving Olton Station now?! The stop at Olton Station towards Solihull has the 4 & 58 on the flag
No, one Saturday morning journey starts from that stop
Quote from: Bus1237 on August 11, 2018, 03:45:32 PM
No, one Saturday morning journey starts from that stop
I was just going to say I stand corrected. I've just seen 4528 on the 4 parked at Olton Station towards City with its hazard lights on.
Quote from: 2206 on July 25, 2018, 08:37:42 PM
Heartlands needs updating still from the East B'ham changes last year as well.
It still says the 73 stops on Yardley Green Road, whereas it now stops closer to the entrance on Bordesley Green East.
It says the 97A stops on Bordesley Green East, thought the Airport 97A extension was witdrawn last year.
And where it links to associated routes, it links to the 28B, no 28's have used that route number for some time.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/links/hospitals/heartlands-hospital
The map shows the 73 goes to the City Centre and at a 30 minute frequency as well, though it no longer does..
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/maps/Hospital-maps-2017/GettingtoHeartlandshospital2017.pdf
And Solihull which still mentions the 71 and 966.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/links/hospitals/solihull-hospital-heartlands-nhs-trust
The map still shows the 58, 72, and 73 going to the City Centre. It shows the old 70, S1, 71 and 966 routes.
Plus the 37 has been renumbered 4.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/maps/Hospital-maps-2017/NXWMgettingtoSolihullhospital2017.pdf
Just noticed this error, the NX website says Heartlands Hospital is in Small Heath.
Quote28 Small Heath (Heartlands Hospital) - Bordesley Green - Fox & Goose - Erdington - Great Barr (Scott Arms)
https://nxbus.co.uk/routes/west-midlands/B028/?timetable[day]=&tab=
Quote from: 2206 on August 14, 2018, 12:54:54 PM
Just noticed this error, the NX website says Heartlands Hospital is in Small Heath.https://nxbus.co.uk/routes/west-midlands/B028/?timetable[day]=&tab=
Don't some of the journeys still extend to Small Heath (evenings & weekends)??
@2206. So that may be why it says Small Heath (Heartlands Hospital) possibly???
Looks like it's supposed to be:
28 Small Heath - Bordesley Green (Heartlands Hospital) - Fox & Goose - Erdington - Great Barr (Scott Arms)
Quote from: Squiz1971 on August 14, 2018, 02:22:14 PM
Don't some of the journeys still extend to Small Heath (evenings & weekends)?? @2206. So that may be why it says Small Heath (Heartlands Hospital) possibly???
Yes, all evening and Sunday journeys extend to Small Heath, Monday to Saturday daytime 28's terminate near the Hospital at the Little Bromwich Road stop on Bordesley Green East.
It says Small Heath (Heartlands Hospital) and heartlands hospital is not in Small Heath.
What it should should say is Small Heath - Bordesley Green (Heartlands Hospital).
Quote from: 2206 on August 14, 2018, 04:37:38 PM
Yes, all evening and Sunday journeys extend to Small Heath, Monday to Saturday daytime 28's terminate near the Hospital at the Little Bromwich Road stop on Bordesley Green East.
It says Small Heath (Heartlands Hospital) and heartlands hospital is not in Small Heath.
What it should should say is Small Heath - Bordesley Green (Heartlands Hospital).
Does anybody actually use that extension? I've used it once and was the only person in that extension.
Quote from: Jack on August 14, 2018, 05:45:06 PM
Does anybody actually use that extension? I've used it once and was the only person in that extension.
Yes a few people do use it, i've been on buses where there have been a few people using the extension.
Diamonds 28A covers that extension Monday to Saturday daytimes, and that picks up quite a few people as well whenever i've used it.
Quote from: Jack on August 14, 2018, 05:45:06 PM
Does anybody actually use that extension? I've used it once and was the only person in that extension.
Yes but I would agure more people would use the Dyas Road - Scott Arms section that gets no evening or Sunday service, would be a far better use of a bus
You get 2 or 3 people a trip to Small Heath usually when I have done it. Pointless running it in my opinion, plus it can severely affect the timekeeping of the route when it is busy in Small Heath
Quote from: Kevin on August 14, 2018, 06:02:14 PM
Yes but I would agure more people would use the Dyas Road - Scott Arms section that gets no evening or Sunday service, would be a far better use of a bus
Oh yes I agree!
Quote from: John on August 14, 2018, 06:06:04 PM
You get 2 or 3 people a trip to Small Heath usually when I have done it. Pointless running it in my opinion, plus it can severely affect the timekeeping of the route when it is busy in Small Heath
I presume the reason it has survived is because it is a tendered service, like the Monday to Saturday daytime variation of the Small Heath extension ( Diamonds 28A).
Is there any reason why these journeys to Small Heath weren't withdrawn when the Monday to Saturday daytime journeys were withdrawn and also replaced by the 24 back in 2007 (now the 28A)?
I expect there's extremely little demand for any sort of service to Small Heath beyond the Fox and Goose and anyone wanting to make that journey can easily change buses like they'd have to if they were travelling on a Monday morning. Maybe It should operate as the 28A evening and Sundays as well, like it does for the rest of the week.
Quote from: 2206 on August 14, 2018, 06:38:45 PM
Is there any reason why these journeys to Small Heath weren't withdrawn when the Monday to Saturday daytime journeys were withdrawn and also replaced by the 24 back in 2007 (now the 28A)?
They are tendered
Wasn't the 24 more popular back then? Is it possible that changing operator has significantly reduced the number of people using that section?
Quote from: :D on August 14, 2018, 08:32:29 PM
Wasn't the 24 more popular back then? Is it possible that changing operator has significantly reduced the number of people using that section?
Not sure what usage was like back then.
But i'd say it is possible that changing operator could have reduced the number of people using that section, National Express currently have a manopoly, they had a manopoly back then as well, there tickets are also slightly cheaper than a n bus ticket.
So most purchase NX daytickets and passes, that's been the case for a very long time.
When the operator changed from NX it could well have meant people found alternative routes to get to where they want to go, many don't seem willing to pay the extra few pence/pounds to use the other operator (for example on the 11 you get some people trying to get on the DTS bus with a NX pass/ticket, and when the driver says they'll have to pay 50p to get on with that, they get of looking annoyed and unwilling).
Quote from: 2206 on August 14, 2018, 08:42:29 PM
Not sure what usage was like back then.
But i'd say it is possible that changing operator could have reduced the number of people using that section, National Express currently have a manopoly, they had a manopoly back then as well, there tickets are also slightly cheaper than a n bus ticket.
So most purchase NX daytickets and passes, that's been the case for a very long time.
When the operator changed from NX it could well have meant people found alternative routes to get to where they want to go, many don't seem willing to pay the extra few pence/pounds to use the other operator (for example on the 11 you get some people trying to get on the DTS bus with a NX pass/ticket, and when the driver says they'll have to pay 50p to get on with that, they get of looking annoyed and unwilling).
I've paid 50p with my old paper Nx pass on Arriva in the past, but I never did it regulary!
For my trip to the QE today i sampled the X22, I caught the 1010 from Priory Queensway and when we got to Granville Street the next stop announcement said the "The next stop is School of Education", BUT the driver stopped at the next stop which was for 80 and 80A only and then stopped at two more stops which are for just the X21. Now it's either non-stop to the School of Education or it's not, I think the real confusion will start in September when passengers are at there most normal pattern. Passengers will need to get used to which service stops at their stop on not and do the drivers really know !
The thing I'm definitely in favour of is the X20, X21 and X22 avoiding the QE entrance, it was very busy this morning and would have took far too long to get in and out of the QE, peak hours must be even worse!
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 16, 2018, 01:56:22 PM
For my trip to the QE today i sampled the X22, I caught the 1010 from Priory Queensway and when we got to Granville Street the next stop announcement said the "The next stop is School of Education", BUT the driver stopped at the next stop which was for 80 and 80A only and then stopped at two more stops which are for just the X21. Now it's either non-stop to the School of Education or it's not, I think the real confusion will start in September when passengers are at there most normal pattern. Passengers will need to get used to which service stops at their stop on not and do the drivers really know !
The thing I'm definitely in favour of is the X20, X21 and X22 avoiding the QE entrance, it was very busy this morning and would have took far too long to get in and out of the QE, peak hours must be even worse!
That was the case orriginally, but in response to passengers feedback regarding it being difficult to get to Five Ways, they've changed it since it first began so it now stops at all stops to Edgbaston Old Church, then skips out a few stops then all stops from the University of Birmingham (School of Education Stop). Its most likely just that they haven't updated the announcements yet.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/service-x20-#
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/SouthBirminghamNewTimetables/HowtogettoFiveWaysontheX20X21andX22.png
Just seen a 50 branded MMC saying 50A?? I thought that was withdrawn.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 16, 2018, 04:59:23 PM
Just seen a 50 branded MMC saying 50A?? I thought that was withdrawn.
Last day of operation is Friday 31st August.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 16, 2018, 04:59:23 PM
Just seen a 50 branded MMC saying 50A?? I thought that was withdrawn.
Not until Friday 31st August
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 16, 2018, 04:59:23 PM
Just seen a 50 branded MMC saying 50A?? I thought that was withdrawn.
on the nxwm website changes it saying it needs more passengers otherwise it will get withdrawn
Quote from: I love Walsall buses on August 16, 2018, 05:13:37 PM
on the nxwm website changes it saying it needs more passengers otherwise it will get withdrawn
No.
It clearly says that the last day of operation is Friday 31st August.
QuoteSadly there are not enough passengers using our 50A service. To ensure that both Transport for West Midlands and Worcestershire County Council have enough time to consider the implications of withdrawing this service, and decide whether a replacement service needs to be provided, we will continue to offer this service until Friday 31 August 2018.
Regular buses that run to the same destinations as the 50A are provided by Johnsons' 150 service on Alcester Road. Diamond's S3 service also provides a regular link to the Alcester Road and Maypole for customers in Hollywood, Trueman's Heath and Wythall.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/service-50a
oh ok thanks for that
@2206
Quote from: 2206 on August 16, 2018, 05:16:37 PM
No.
It clearly says that the last day of operation is Friday 31st August.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/service-50a
TfWM are said to be considering a replacement in the meantime - that's what I got from the consultation book anyway
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 16, 2018, 10:51:16 PM
TfWM are said to be considering a replacement in the meantime - that's what I got from the consultation book anyway
The section within the West Midlands county has plenty of alternative 50 journeys, leaving it primarily up to Worcestershire County Council. Considering it has not rushed to plug far larger gaps in provision caused by First's latest swingeing cuts in the south of the county, I would not hold my breath.
New timetables for the X20, X21 and X22 from Traveline commencing 2nd September (longer journey times in peaks as you would expect)
X20 - an improved peak-period service with shorts between City and University (outward AM, inward PM) just like the 98 used to do.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/CEN_EFA03__0000595c_TP.pdf
X21
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/CEN_EFA03__00003f27_TP.pdf
X22 - an improved peak-period service
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/CEN_EFA03__0000040d_TP.pdf
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 22, 2018, 06:22:57 PM
New timetables for the X20, X21 and X22 from Traveline commencing 2nd September (longer journey times in peaks as you would expect)
X20 - an improved peak-period service with shorts between City and University (outward AM, inward PM) just like the 98 used to do.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/CEN_EFA03__0000595c_TP.pdf
X21
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/CEN_EFA03__00003f27_TP.pdf
X22 - an improved peak-period service
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/CEN_EFA03__0000040d_TP.pdf
How come only 3 stops are being shown now as opposed to all of them?
And why does it say no service on 27th August? I'd have thought it'd be Sunday service.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 22, 2018, 06:37:12 PM
How come only 3 stops are being shown now as opposed to all of them?
And why does it say no service on 27th August? I'd have thought it'd be Sunday service.
Maybe because the old timetable will still be in place on the 27th August?
With the new timetable not commencing until 2nd September.
The new timetables are standard changes for most Birmingham routes when the summer schedules end
Quote from: 2206 on August 22, 2018, 06:47:03 PM
Maybe because the old timetable will still be in place on the 27th August?
With the new timetable not commencing until 2nd September.
Whoops, of course.
Still, a bit disappointing that most of the stops have disappeared.
Anybody know how the Bus Gate is coming along?
On my way back from the Resorts World today I thought I'd try out the X12. I have to say I was impressed with the announcement of Non stop from Bromford to Priory Queensway. Do the the X20 and X22 do something similar after School of Education? If not then they should!
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 27, 2018, 03:37:14 PM
On my way back from the Resorts World today I thought I'd try out the X12. I have to say I was impressed with the announcement of Non stop from Bromford to Priory Queensway. Do the the X20 and X22 do something similar after School of Education? If not then they should!
They don't, when I was on the X20 recently after leaving that stop it said 'The next stop is Smallbrook Queensway' which for someone unfamiliar with the area is absolutely rubbish as it was still around 10-15 minutes away!
Quote from: Straightlines on August 27, 2018, 05:00:09 PM
They don't, when I was on the X20 recently after leaving that stop it said 'The next stop is Smallbrook Queensway' which for someone unfamiliar with the area is absolutely rubbish as it was still around 10-15 minutes away!
Hmm yeah that is pretty poor to be honest. Like you say if you're not familiar with the area you're going to be none the wiser. The confusion is going to be even worse when the students start next month.
Also, can't the X21 go non-stop along Bath Row (in both directions when it comes to it)? I feel like it needs to miss something out to help it out. Additionally I'd get rid of the Arthur Road, Carpenter Road stop (again in both directions when it happens) as you've got stops close by betore and after it anyway.
I also wonder whether when the Selly Oak Retail Park is built the X20 and X21 can skip through the that instead of getting suck in traffic by the soon-to-be old Sainsburys.
Quote from: MasterPlan on August 22, 2018, 06:53:47 PM
Whoops, of course.
Still, a bit disappointing that most of the stops have disappeared.
Anybody know how the Bus Gate is coming along?
Just been past on the 80, the tarmac looks mostly done to be fair, looks like they just need to backfill the non road bits and install lights
However, it does appear to have become a full on road junction with a lane for people wishing to turn right from Islington Row to Bath Row, wasn't aware that this was part of the plan
Anyone know if the 23/24 will be reverting to a 'non-summer holiday' timetable from 2nd September? There's no new timetable on Traveline and it's only 5 days away.
As things stand, on the current timetables from 3rd Sept the 23 only takes 2 minutes longer than the X22 California to city in the morning peak.
Quote from: Mike K on August 28, 2018, 06:00:19 PM
Anyone know if the 23/24 will be reverting to a 'non-summer holiday' timetable from 2nd September? There's no new timetable on Traveline and it's only 5 days away.
As things stand, on the current timetables from 3rd Sept the 23 only takes 2 minutes longer than the X22 California to city in the morning peak.
The 4, 4A and 6 timetables were on Traveline today, I looked for the 23 and 24 today as well, it will probably appear tomorrow. I'm expecting longer journey times in peaks which are to be expected so the PVR will increase but i think they will still be every 9 minutes each.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 28, 2018, 06:54:42 PM
The 4, 4A and 6 timetables were on Traveline today, I looked for the 23 and 24 today as well, it will probably appear tomorrow. I'm expecting longer journey times in peaks which are to be expected so the PVR will increase but i think they will still be every 9 minutes each.
I'm hoping they go to every 8 mins - I've seen other every 8 min timetables that have changed to every 9 mins for the summer period although I can't remember which. I'm also hoping there might be some extra peak journeys on both routes. With the 22 and 29 gone and overall fewer buses city to Harborne the loadings have increased notably, and buses can be very full from city when there is a slight gap in the service in the evening peak.
But full buses are good for revenue & good for the environment, what's the use in using 2 buses to carry the same amount of people as 1 bus can carry. Waste of capacity & waste of money plus twice the amount of emissions.
Quote from: Steveminor on August 29, 2018, 08:22:48 AM
But full buses are good for revenue & good for the environment, what's the use in using 2 buses to carry the same amount of people as 1 bus can carry. Waste of capacity & waste of money plus twice the amount of emissions.
I mean full to the point where I was virtually sitting on the driver's lap one day last week.
Quote from: Mike K on August 29, 2018, 08:41:26 AM
I mean full to the point where I was virtually sitting on the driver's lap one day last week.
Delays will mean that can happen however many buses are on the route
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 28, 2018, 06:54:42 PM
The 4, 4A and 6 timetables were on Traveline today, I looked for the 23 and 24 today as well, it will probably appear tomorrow. I'm expecting longer journey times in peaks which are to be expected so the PVR will increase but i think they will still be every 9 minutes each.
23 and 24 timetables finally up, they will be every 8 mins each during the day, 7-8 mins in the morning peak. I have to admit that whilst I had a moan about some aspects of the South Birmingham review, from a personal perspective my local bus service has actually improved for the peak hour times that I use it - same number of buses per hour as the old 22/23 combined, but spaced evenly every 7-8 mins instead of that ridiculous 5 then 10 min frequency (aka 2 every 15 mins).
Now if they'll just divert them away from Smallbrook Queensway... :)
Quote from: Mike K on August 30, 2018, 08:19:55 PM
23 and 24 timetables finally up, they will be every 8 mins each during the day, 7-8 mins in the morning peak. I have to admit that whilst I had a moan about some aspects of the South Birmingham review, from a personal perspective my local bus service has actually improved for the peak hour times that I use it - same number of buses per hour as the old 22/23 combined, but spaced evenly every 7-8 mins instead of that ridiculous 5 then 10 min frequency (aka 2 every 15 mins).
Now if they'll just divert them away from Smallbrook Queensway... :)
I find the link quite handy far too many buses just go to colmore row
Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 30, 2018, 08:26:37 PM
I find the link quite handy far too many buses just go to colmore row
I know it's a handy link for some. But for commuting from the Colmore Row area home it's massively frustrating how long it takes to get round town. Selfish I know...
I now either walk to Brindley Place or if the weather's bad catch a Hagley Road bus and change there.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 30, 2018, 08:26:37 PM
I find the link quite handy far too many buses just go to colmore row
I agree, too many buses shoved at Colmore Row, feels so far out if I'm honest.
I notice, lots of cars were using the Broad Street Bus Lane this evening at 19:15.
Quote from: Mike K on August 30, 2018, 08:31:11 PM
I know it's a handy link for some. But for commuting from the Colmore Row area home it's massively frustrating how long it takes to get round town. Selfish I know...
I now either walk to Brindley Place or if the weather's bad catch a Hagley Road bus and change there.
I was about to suggest getting on a broad street bus and get off and change there.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 30, 2018, 08:56:47 PM
I was about to suggest getting on a broad street bus and get off and change there.
Why do you need to suggest that (he's already said he does that when the weathers bad), its quite obvious how to get there, and he has already said he doesn't sit on the bus for the full City Loop and walks to Broad Street (It only takes me about 7/8 - 10 minutes to walk to Broad Street from Colmore Row), or just gets on a Hagley Road bus if the weathers bad
Anyone in the know willing to divulge on the official route for the X20 in Rednal?
I've been on ones in both directions that have gone straight along Ashill Road but two city bound ones that have turned onto Cliff Rock Road (entirely inappropriate road for a double decker) to reach Leach Green Lane and down to the flyover
Also, interestingly the X20 I'm on atm has used the old 98/X64 route into town round Five Ways, just using Wheeleys Road all the way to Islington Row instead which was a hairy experience on a double decker. Also stopped at Five Ways, not sure if he was meant to
The X20 route runs Edgewood Road, Cliff Rock Road and Leach Green Lane inbound and Ashill Road, Edgewood Road outbound.
The original proposal was to run via Ashill Road in both directions but was changed just before introduction, possibly to address the issue of inbound/outbound buses potentially crossing on Ashill Road which is much narrower than Edgewood. WMT had big problems with this road when the 49 was rerouted for a brief period in the latter part of 1993 before returning to the Bristol Rd a few months later.
Having ridden the route from start to finish a couple of weeks ago, Cliff Rock Road is a very tight fit to say the least!
Quote from: Kevin on September 02, 2018, 06:17:09 PM
Also, interestingly the X20 I'm on atm has used the old 98/X64 route into town round Five Ways, just using Wheeleys Road all the way to Islington Row instead which was a hairy experience on a double decker. Also stopped at Five Ways, not sure if he was meant to
The X21 I was on has done the same, stopping at Five Ways and all along Bath Row. What is going on? All this tripe about avoiding Five Ways because of the traffic and yet here we are again. Caught a few people out too; great amount of notice given to the public as ever.
And yes going up Wheeleys Road was a little dodgy with all of the parked cars along it.
Quote from: SO6597 on September 02, 2018, 08:55:37 PM
The X20 route runs Edgewood Road, Cliff Rock Road and Leach Green Lane inbound and Ashill Road, Edgewood Road outbound.
The original proposal was to run via Ashill Road in both directions but was changed just before introduction, possibly to address the issue of inbound/outbound buses potentially crossing on Ashill Road which is much narrower than Edgewood. WMT had big problems with this road when the 49 was rerouted for a brief period in the latter part of 1993 before returning to the Bristol Rd a few months later.
Having ridden the route from start to finish a couple of weeks ago, Cliff Rock Road is a very tight fit to say the least!
Interesting. Because the one I caught yesterday to city went straight onto Ashill Road
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 03, 2018, 06:58:37 AM
The X21 I was on has done the same, stopping at Five Ways and all along Bath Row. What is going on? All this tripe about avoiding Five Ways because of the traffic and yet here we are again. Caught a few people out too; great amount of notice given to the public as ever.
And yes going up Wheeleys Road was a little dodgy with all of the parked cars along it.
I've just seen 3 X20s / X22s come down Bath Row inbound so they must have changed the route? Incidentally, the Holloway Head / Bath Row traffic is queueing from Holloway Circus virtually to Five Ways - absolutely horrendous. At this point in time, the X20/21/22 must be the slowest routes to town in the whole of the city.
Quote from: Mike K on September 03, 2018, 05:52:13 PM
I've just seen 3 X20s / X22s come down Bath Row inbound so they must have changed the route? Incidentally, the Holloway Head / Bath Row traffic is queueing from Holloway Circus virtually to Five Ways - absolutely horrendous. At this point in time, the X20/21/22 must be the slowest routes to town in the whole of the city.
I notice NX Bus have said on the twitter page its on diversion due to badly parked cars on Wheeleys Road (Presumably they mean Wellington Road).
https://twitter.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1036637041818324992
Quote from: 2206 on September 03, 2018, 06:00:31 PM
I notice NX Bus have said on the twitter page its on diversion due to badly parked cars on Wheeleys Road.
https://twitter.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1036637041818324992
Isn't the normal route inbound supposed to be from Edgbaston Old Church via Wellington Road and Bristol Street into city? I thought they weren't even supposed to use Wheeleys Road inbound? I'm more confused than ever.
Edit: and another thing - it's no use blaming badly parked cars on that section of Wheeleys Road, a residential street which is wholly unsuitable for any sort of two way traffic, let alone buses.
Quote from: Mike K on September 03, 2018, 06:04:36 PM
Isn't the normal route inbound supposed to be from Edgbaston Old Church via Wellington Road and Bristol Street into city? I thought they weren't even supposed to use Wheeleys Road inbound? I'm more confused than ever.
I assume they mean Wellington Road, yes.
As you can't go from Wheeleys Road over onto Bath Row without going via Five Ways anyway.
Quote from: Mike K on September 03, 2018, 06:04:36 PM
Isn't the normal route inbound supposed to be from Edgbaston Old Church via Wellington Road and Bristol Street into city? I thought they weren't even supposed to use Wheeleys Road inbound? I'm more confused than ever.
That was only a diversion until the bus gate is done (which they kept quite when announcing the charges). But yes, also no notice of them going down Wheeleys Road inbound at all. Passengers confused on the X21 this morning as it went down Arthur Road. Then using stops it shouldn't at Five Ways and along Bath Row.
Quote from: Mike K on September 03, 2018, 06:04:36 PM
Isn't the normal route inbound supposed to be from Edgbaston Old Church via Wellington Road and Bristol Street into city? I thought they weren't even supposed to use Wheeleys Road inbound? I'm more confused than ever.
I've honestly lost track of which way all three routes enter and leave the city centre
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 03, 2018, 06:10:07 PM
That was only a diversion until the bus gate is done (which they kept quite when announcing the charges). But yes, also no notice of them going down Wheeleys Road inbound at all. Passengers confused on the X21 this morning as it went down Arthur Road. Then using stops it shouldn't at Five Ways and along Bath Row.
So is the bus gate finished now? What a shambles these QE 'express' routes are.
Quote from: Mike K on September 03, 2018, 06:14:03 PM
So is the bus gate finished now? What a shambles these QE 'express' routes are.
Well they can't be as they're not using it, but who even knows anymore? I wouldn't be surprised if we got diverted via Wolverhampton at this point. As you say absolutely shambolic.
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 03, 2018, 06:11:27 PM
I've honestly lost track of which way all three routes enter and leave the city centre
"The X20, X21 and X22 will currently be operating in both directions via Wheeleys Road. Inbound to city will be left onto Lee Bank Middleway and right into Bath Row to Holloway Circus."
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 04, 2018, 10:52:06 AM
"The X20, X21 and X22 will currently be operating in both directions via Wheeleys Road. Inbound to city will be left onto Lee Bank Middleway and right into Bath Row to Holloway Circus."
Ha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
They really haven't ever seen Wheeleys Road have they? Jesus wept this is going to be hilarious
Quote from: Kevin on September 04, 2018, 10:58:26 AM
Ha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
They really haven't ever seen Wheeleys Road have they? Jesus wept this is going to be hilarious
Seriously, I used to drive that way home - if you meet another car coming the other way on that first section of Wheeleys Road after the traffic lights, everyone is partially mounting the pavement to squeeze past. If two buses meet...
No good blaming badly parked cars, it's badly routed buses.
I can't help thinking that running two such wide-ranging reviews with relevant changes, including vehicle requirements, infrastructure such as junction works, bus stop changes etc, along with the added complication of the two 'joint' WM Bus routes in Walsall and West Bromwich concurrently is potentially over-ambitious in terms of programming for operators, TfWM and contractors alike. It's hardly surprising that everything's not in place in time.
Quote from: Kevin on September 04, 2018, 10:58:26 AM
Ha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
They really haven't ever seen Wheeleys Road have they? Jesus wept this is going to be hilarious
I suspect they probably haven't, I thought they normally do Risk Assessments for such decisions?
Well the X21 I took this morning avoided it inbound using the old 98/X64 route in. Which must be the diversion that was mentioned previously. Either way it's a farce.
What I don't understand is with Birmingham being practically a car park nowadays, why do they keep ploughing buses into the centre, where they then become unreliable?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on September 06, 2018, 08:07:06 AM
What I don't understand is with Birmingham being practically a car park nowadays, why do they keep ploughing buses into the centre, where they then become unreliable?
Maybe because that's where most people travel to/from?
In fairness there actually seems less Buses rather than more to me. One of the largest problems with Birmingham City Centre at present is the inadequate infrastructure and the lack of Bus priority into the City from many parts.
If your suggesting services stopping short of Birmingham to turn round then that will probably be the final nail in the coffin for some of them.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on September 06, 2018, 08:07:06 AM
What I don't understand is with Birmingham being practically a car park nowadays, why do they keep ploughing buses into the centre, where they then become unreliable?
what don't help is the lack of bus lanes & car drivers who think they can nip into bus lanes the fine should be £1000 If in a bus lane
Quote from: Trident 4194 on September 06, 2018, 08:07:06 AM
What I don't understand is with Birmingham being practically a car park nowadays, why do they keep ploughing buses into the centre, where they then become unreliable?
In short, because it's where most people want or need to go - to work, Bull Ring / Grand Central shopping, New St station, etc.
I use the bus Monday to Friday to get to work in the city centre - that's it. Thousands of others do the same.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on September 06, 2018, 08:07:06 AM
What I don't understand is with Birmingham being practically a car park nowadays, why do they keep ploughing buses into the centre, where they then become unreliable?
Surely that's obvious. That's where people want to go.
If you went and pulled every single bus route out of Birmingham City Centre - there'd be thousands of unhappy passengers.
Broad Street and that area of the City Centre may be, but not the whole of Birmingham City Centre the route the Washwood Heath Road services take (Jennens Road and Nechells Parkway), never seems to be that badly congested to me and it's certainly not like a car park very often.
Yeah I think the North Birmingham services find it easier getting in and out of the City than the South.
Quote from: 2206 on September 06, 2018, 01:54:48 PM
Surely that's obvious. That's where people want to go.
If you went and pulled every single bus route out of Birmingham City Centre - there'd be thousands of unhappy passengers.
Broad Street and that area of the City Centre may be, but not the whole of Birmingham City Centre the route the Washwood Heath Road services take (Jennens Road and Nechells Parkway), never seems to be that badly congested to me and it's certainly not like a car park very often.
The 55/94 services were almost non existent yesterday evening during the rush hour.
Not even a week since the school kids have gone back and heavy traffic around Edgebaston Park Road etc have messed up all of the new Uni routes.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 06, 2018, 05:51:33 PM
Not even a week since the school kids have gone back and heavy traffic around Edgebaston Park Road etc have messed up all of the new Uni routes.
It's almost like you weren't expecting more people to be on the roads!! Shock horror, its hardly like its the same every single year!
Quote from: Dom on September 06, 2018, 05:59:08 PM
It's almost like you weren't expecting more people to be on the roads!! Shock horror, its hardly like its the same every single year!
Where did I say I wasn't expecting it? Do you have to be so condescending at every opportunity?
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 06, 2018, 06:02:24 PM
Where did I say I wasn't expecting it? Do you have to be so condescending at every opportunity?
The best advice is to ignore irritations, they usually go away on their own 🤞
Unfortunately Paradise Circus will be adding to the issues indirectly too for the foreseeable.
The point being made that these express 'fast to QE' buses take a route that gets horribly congested in rush hour, thereby defeating the object of them being limited stop. As many pointed out when the service changes were announced.
An hour or so ago the app was showing X20s were due at University Station from city in 9, 40 and 41 minutes.
Quote from: Mike K on September 06, 2018, 07:07:55 PM
The point being made that these express 'fast to QE' buses take a route that gets horribly congested in rush hour, thereby defeating the object of them being limited stop. As many pointed out when the service changes were announced.
An hour or so ago the app was showing X20s were due at University Station from city in 9, 40 and 41 minutes.
Thank you! At least someone gets why I said it. Like Mike has said many pointed out beforehand about the traffic around there and sending services down there to avoid traffic would be fruitless.
As for the X20 I saw two of them stuck gridlocked in traffic inbound there were bunches everywhere.
Also I'd just like to say I'm loving the fact that that the only route that stops at all the stops picking people up is given less capacity on the buses. Another stroke of genius making people get onto already full buses as the others don't stop.
West Midlands railway must be loving this!
The point about the X21 is spot on too, I will be surprised if the routes in their current form last as long as the X61 did.
Quote from: Brummie45 on September 06, 2018, 04:08:35 PM
The 55/94 services were almost non existent yesterday evening during the rush hour.
I didn't use them yesterday, but I read
@Steveminor 's post on the NX facebook page replying to somebody telling them there was a "Broken down lorry accident & an abandoned car on the ring road".
https://www.facebook.com/nxwestmidlands/posts/2086553631389660?__xts__[0]=68.ARCygKRQm_Oe0Ehtxbck_YE9TYEjrp-EAQopNBK9aygLMt2wXSabM5t8o8C7SrAFQD6WA4dpL5tUJsGHmVI4_YAKSIaJZYHRENqprHi_0ZH1DaQsSC_qV_YBRWxwHgOECw-Hh9PDy8e786utwxc-npUUYwDoFqln_GCvREw58vDbCqP9iCjlfA&__tn__=-R
But in normal conditions, its never been that bad when I've used it.
Quote from: V89MOA on September 06, 2018, 07:36:27 PM
West Midlands railway must be loving this!
The point about the X21 is spot on too, I will be surprised if the routes in their current form last as long as the X61 did.
Personally, I can't see why anyone would use anything other than the train to commute from City Centre to Uni - even before these changes were implemented
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 10:08:08 AM
Personally, I can't see why anyone would use anything other than the train to commute from City Centre to Uni - even before these changes were implemented
I used to catch the bus over the train. Great Barr to University was far better on frequent buses (X51, 61/2/3) than an every half hour train from Hamstead
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 10:08:08 AM
Personally, I can't see why anyone would use anything other than the train to commute from City Centre to Uni - even before these changes were implemented
Perhaps to save money? If students wanted to travel around Birmingham for social reasons, or travel across the city in general, getting an NX pass and paying again for the train isn't attractive. Also before the changes there was a door to door link with the QE, now you may as well get the train.
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 10:08:08 AM
Personally, I can't see why anyone would use anything other than the train to commute from City Centre to Uni - even before these changes were implemented
I also used to catch the bus over the train between the city centre and uni mainly because it took a lot of time to walk from one part of the city centre to a platform at New St and then another long walk from uni station to a building where my lectures were meant taking a bus was quicker instead.
From what I hear, taking a train to uni station during a rush hour is terribly uncomfortable, so I'm glad I didn't take the train.
Quote from: Kevin on September 07, 2018, 10:44:27 AM
I used to catch the bus over the train. Great Barr to University was far better on frequent buses (X51, 61/2/3) than an every half hour train from Hamstead
I'm referring to between the City Centre & Uni, trains every 10 mins, less than a 10 min journey.
If I was travelling from where I'd live, it would be a 30 minutes-ish journey on the 48
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 10:44:59 AM
Perhaps to save money? If students wanted to travel around Birmingham for social reasons, or travel across the city in general, getting an NX pass and paying again for the train isn't attractive. Also before the changes there was a door to door link with the QE, now you may as well get the train.
£4.50 daysaver vs £2.70 return.
Just to be clear I'm referring from
Birmingham City Centre to
Birmingham UniQuote from: :D on September 07, 2018, 11:51:34 AM
I also used to catch the bus over the train between the city centre and uni mainly because it took a lot of time to walk from one part of the city centre to a platform at New St and then another long walk from uni station to a building where my lectures were meant taking a bus was quicker instead.
From what I hear, taking a train to uni station during a rush hour is terribly uncomfortable, so I'm glad I didn't take the train.
I'd rather stand for 7 minutes (max) on the train, than be stuck in traffic at Five Ways on a bus, but like I said, that's my personal point of view
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 01:25:50 PM
£4.50 daysaver vs £2.70 return.
Just to be clear I'm referring from Birmingham City Centre to Birmingham Uni
Completely missing my point then...
You said you can't see why anyone would use anything other than the train to commute between the two. I've given you a perfectly good reason, lots of students have cheap NX travelcards so as they can travel anywhere they need to at any time, they are very unlikely to want to pay again for the train when their travelcards/passes get them to Birmingham by bus at no extra cost.
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 01:39:07 PM
Completely missing my point then...
You said you can't see why anyone would use anything other than the train to commute between the two. I've given you a perfectly good reason, lots of students have cheap NX travelcards so as they can travel anywhere they need to at any time, they are very unlikely to want to pay again for the train when their travelcards/passes get them to Birmingham by bus at no extra cost.
You do realise you can do the same with an n-train pass right? I'm not sure what point I've missed
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 02:09:29 PM
You do realise you can do the same with an n-train pass right? I'm not sure what point I've missed
N train pass going to get you to Harborne or Moseley?
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 02:12:19 PM
N train pass going to get you to Harborne or Moseley?
I'm talking about travel exclusively between Birmingham City Centre & Birmingham Uni, as I've iterated more than once. I believe you are the one who is missing the point
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 02:14:14 PM
I'm talking about travel exclusively between Birmingham City Centre & Birmingham Uni, as I've iterated more than once. I believe you are the one who is missing the point
And as I have pointed out lots of students have a cheap NX pass already, so that they have full travel flexibility at all times, not just for the Birmingham commute... I am not the one missing any points.
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 01:25:50 PM
I'm referring to between the City Centre & Uni, trains every 10 mins, less than a 10 min journey.
If I was travelling from where I'd live, it would be a 30 minutes-ish journey on the 48
£4.50 daysaver vs £2.70 return.
Just to be clear I'm referring from Birmingham City Centre to Birmingham Uni
I'd rather stand for 7 minutes (max) on the train, than be stuck in traffic at Five Ways on a bus, but like I said, that's my personal point of view
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 02:14:14 PM
I'm talking about travel exclusively between Birmingham City Centre & Birmingham Uni, as I've iterated more than once. I believe you are the one who is missing the point
But that's the thing, there isn't going to be many people that do that single journey, they'd be coming from elsewhere on the bus and have a bus ticket or on the train and have a through train ticket
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 02:15:33 PM
And as I have pointed out lots of students have a cheap NX pass already, so that they have full travel flexibility at all times, not just for the Birmingham commute... I am not the one missing any points.
Where in my original point did I make reference to travel anywhere apart from Birmingham City Centre & University? On a wider scale, there are other alternatives. But given the option, the train usually wins out
Quote from: Kevin on September 07, 2018, 02:15:59 PM
But that's the thing, there isn't going to be many people that do that single journey, they'd be coming from elsewhere on the bus and have a bus ticket or on the train and have a through train ticket
I understand that. I was referring to a journey solely between Birmingham & University. Probably should have made that more clear
I never said that you did....
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 10:08:08 AM
Personally, I can't see why anyone would use anything other than the train to commute from City Centre to Uni - even before these changes were implemented
I have simply given you a very valid reason as to why somebody would choose the bus over the train to make this commute.... The fact that you are having difficulty understanding my point that people like to have flexibility for any occasion and don't like to pay for travel twice is not my problem.
How long are these diversions on the
X20/X22 in place anyway? If they are diversions, these routes confuse me a little
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 02:24:25 PM
I never said that you did....I have simply given you a very valid reason as to why somebody would choose the bus over the train to make this commute.... The fact that you are having difficulty understanding my point that people like to have flexibility for any occasion and don't like to pay for travel twice is not my problem.
But I'm treating the commute as an isolated journey, whereas you are not.
I'm autistic, so I've probably made/interpreted some of the points incorrectly, as I occasionally do, but again, a return is £2.70 vs £4.50 daysaver, between Birmingham City Centre & University, that's the same amount of flexibility - unless you want to go around the houses before getting there
I am treating it as such, but my point about flexibility is what about the days off, weekends or just spare few hours later on when they want the freedom to jump on a bus to see mates, an evening drink or just to go shopping. The exact reason why travelcards are a popular option, cheap flexibility and no need to worry about getting anywhere in brum under whatever circumstances. If you have a more convenient bus travelcard for the month, then you'd be mad to pay again for the train on commuting days. The only time the train is more appealing is the sole one off journey between the two stations but as Kevin has said that is pretty rare as most people have to get on another bus again as they'll be coming through from somewhere else.
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 02:44:52 PM
I am treating it as such, but my point about flexibility is what about the days off, weekends or just spare few hours later on when they want the freedom to jump on a bus to see mates, an evening drink or just to go shopping. The exact reason why travelcards are a popular option, cheap flexibility and no need to worry about getting anywhere in brum under whatever circumstances. If you have a more convenient bus travelcard for the month, then you'd be mad to pay again for the train on commuting days. The only time the train is more appealing is the sole one off journey between the two stations but as Kevin has said that is pretty rare as most people have to get on another bus again as they'll be coming through from somewhere else.
You're more than welcome to view it as you want, but it's irrelevant to my initial point - which admittedly, I should have made more clear
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 02:52:41 PM
You're more than welcome to view it as you want, but it's irrelevant to my initial point - which admittedly, I should have made more clear
So to say people who have already paid once for bus passes would be foolish to pay twice is irrelevant to... "Personally, I can't see why anyone would use anything other than the train to commute from City Centre to Uni"
If you say so!
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 02:54:27 PM
So to say people who have already paid once for bus passes would be foolish to pay twice is irrelevant to... "Personally, I can't see why anyone would use anything other than the train to commute from City Centre to Uni"
If you say so!
The point wasn't aimed at people with bus passes, more the general public
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 02:59:00 PM
The point wasn't aimed at people with bus passes, more the general public
You said "anyone" so...
Regardless... The fact that as a result of the review extra buses have been put on between the Uni and Brum would suggest demand is there.
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 02:59:38 PM
You said "anyone" so...
Regardless... The fact that as a result of the review extra buses have been put on between the Uni and Brum would suggest demand is there.
Anyone as in the general public, not exclusively people with bus passes.
Obviously the demand is there, the majority of this consultation was centered around the QE/University from a personal point of view, it would always be the train for me, from Birmingham, and as the rush hour trains you referred to earlier suggest, I'm not the only one
I wonder how long journey times are from the City Centre to Uni now these diversions have been put in place
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 03:08:39 PM
Anyone as in the general public, not exclusively people with bus passes.
You're boring me now.
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 03:12:19 PM
You're boring me now.
There's no need at all for that response.
Do NX still offer the University/QE £1 "city hop" fares? The one that's exclusive to students and NHS employees?
Quote from: CL on September 07, 2018, 05:36:05 PM
Do NX still offer the University/QE £1 "city hop" fares? The one that's exclusive to students and NHS employees?
I asked this a while back on here and on Facebook but got no answer. They're not advertised on the buses anymore but some stops I've seen still show it.
Quote from: CL on September 07, 2018, 05:36:05 PM
Do NX still offer the University/QE £1 "city hop" fares? The one that's exclusive to students and NHS employees?
Yes
@CL https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/useful-information/university-hop
Quote from: Adam 404 on September 07, 2018, 06:02:52 PM
Yes @CL
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/useful-information/university-hop
Ah that's good then! I take it that it must've been successful since it's introduction. Strange that the ads have been taken off of the buses though.
This made me laugh however "Our Platinum X20, X21 and X22 services offer premium comfort, with comfier seats, extra legroom, WiFi and USB charging points"
Quote from: CL on September 07, 2018, 05:36:05 PM
Do NX still offer the University/QE £1 "city hop" fares? The one that's exclusive to students and NHS employees?
Out of interest, was this introduced along with the X20/X21/X22 or before those routes were introduced?
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 06:19:39 PM
Out of interest, was this introduced along with the X20/X21/X22 or before those routes were introduced?
It was lauched before the introduction of the X20/X21/X22.
It was introduced ages ago, at the time the 98/X64 were still operating - the B7RLE used to have University Hop vinyls.
Quote from: CL on September 07, 2018, 05:36:05 PM
Do NX still offer the University/QE £1 “city hop” fares? The one that’s exclusive to students and NHS employees?
They do indeed
** Apologies, hadn't seen that people had already responded. **
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 02:59:38 PM
Regardless... The fact that as a result of the review extra buses have been put on between the Uni and Brum would suggest demand is there.
Not necessarily that it is there more the potential of it being there. As maybe its them trying to win passengers off the train. As you're a regular moaner about how busy the cross city line gets, I'm amazed that hasn't crossed your mind. As it makes a hell of a lot of sense from NXs point of view.
Especially since excluding all large stations (Birmingham stations, Wolverhampton etc.) University station is the busiest on the network.
In the same breath I agree with
@Sh4318. Despite the unreliability of the Cross City line at times, I'd still rather get the train over the bus to the city centre. Unless your journey required a bus every single day i wouldn't see why they're buy a travel card. If, like Joe has mentioned, they get a travel card for the off the cuff journey to see friends or go for a drink, I'd rather get a PAYG Swift card or pay by contactless. Atleast then I'm only paying when I use it. Instead of pissing money down the drain on days I dont.
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 06:31:21 PM
Not necessarily that it is there more the potential of it being there. As maybe its them trying to win passengers off the train. As you're a regular moaner about how busy the cross city line gets, I'm amazed that hasn't crossed your mind. As it makes a hell of a lot of sense from NXs point of view.
Especially since excluding all large stations (Birmingham stations, Wolverhampton etc.) University station is the busiest on the network.
Misquoting me again? I have moaned about Abellio deeming it acceptable to reduce the number of seats on the line when patronage is growing, I do not have an issue with people using the service!!
I don't accept that theory either, before the changes they had to lay on extra peaktime 98Es between Brum and the Q.E. to cope so it isn't exactly a new thing that that section is busy...
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 06:41:08 PM
Misquoting me again? I have moaned about Abellio deeming it acceptable to reduce the number of seats on the line when patronage is growing, I do not have an issue with people using the service!!
I don't accept that theory either, before the changes they had to lay on extra peaktime 98Es between Brum and the Q.E. to cope so it isn't exactly a new thing that that section is busy...
The peak time extras still exist as short working X20s now the summer timetable is over.
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 06:41:08 PM
Misquoting me again? I have moaned about Abellio deeming it acceptable to reduce the number of seats on the line when patronage is growing, I do not have an issue with people using the service!!
I don't accept that theory either, before the changes they had to lay on extra peaktime 98Es between Brum and the Q.E. to cope so it isn't exactly a new thing that that section is busy...
Well now you're misquoting me. I simply stated that maybe they're trying to win more passengers off the busier Cross City line.
You just can't accept someone elses point can you. You always have to be correct.
Quote from: Mike K on September 07, 2018, 06:47:19 PM
The peak time extras still exist as short working X20s now the summer timetable is over.
Exactly, it's been a very well used section of route for years!
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 06:52:16 PM
You just can't accept someone elses point can you. You always have to be correct.
Pot calling the kettle black?
No I haven't misquoted you, I am simply backing up my argument that the route is a busy route, hence why it now has more buses than before.
Quote from: 2206 on September 07, 2018, 06:20:59 PM
It was lauched before the introduction of the X20/X21/X22.
It was introduced ages ago, at the time the 98/X64 were still operating - the B7RLE used to have University Hop vinyls.
So did some e400s for the 63. Not sure about the X61 MMCs.
What I don't understand is why they have made that section limited stop when it is the busiest section.
And have NXWM explained how you are meant to get into Birmingham if you live between Edgbaston Church and the city centre.
Quote from: sonic84 on September 07, 2018, 07:16:11 PM
What I don't understand is why they have made that section limited stop when it is the busiest section.
And have NXWM explained how you are meant to get into Birmingham if you live between Edgbaston Church and the city centre.
The X21 stops along there now towards City, despite the stops still saying 'not in use'.
But yes, they've gone from every 10 mins along that section (98/X64) to every 15 mins (X21)
Quote from: sonic84 on September 07, 2018, 07:16:11 PM
What I don't understand is why they have made that section limited stop when it is the busiest section.
And have NXWM explained how you are meant to get into Birmingham if you live between Edgbaston Church and the city centre.
To try and compete with the train. If you look over some of the changes over recent years, a lot of the 'express routes' are along major train lines.
X1 - Birmingham international - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X2 - Solihull - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X7 - Wolverhampton to Smethwick then Smethwick to Snow Hill
X10 - Cradley Heath - Birmingham
X20/21/22 - University - City
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 07:23:11 PM
To try and compete with the train. If you look over some of the changes over recent years, a lot of the 'express routes' are along major train lines.
X1 - Birmingham international - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X2 - Solihull - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X7 - Wolverhampton to Smethwick then Smethwick to Snow Hill
X10 - Cradley Heath - Birmingham
X20/21/22 - University - City
I can understand that but those routes all have all stopping alternatives. I think at least one of those routes should have been all stopping along up to Five Ways as on all those routes you can not get on or off in the direction of the city centre but there is no alternative all stopping service to get.
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 07:23:11 PM
To try and compete with the train. If you look over some of the changes over recent years, a lot of the 'express routes' are along major train lines.
X1 - Birmingham international - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X2 - Solihull - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X7 - Wolverhampton to Smethwick then Smethwick to Snow Hill
X10 - Cradley Heath - Birmingham
X20/21/22 - University - City
I guess you could
kind of include the X8 in that - Blackheath to Birmingham.
Ultimately, the bus just cannot compete with the train for time and (most of the time) price
Quote from: sonic84 on September 07, 2018, 07:28:51 PM
I can understand that but those routes all have all stopping alternatives. I think at least one of those routes should have been all stopping along up to Five Ways as on all those routes you can not get on or off in the direction of the city centre but there is no alternative all stopping service to get.
I think the X21 does now serve most of the stops between city and QE in both directions. From what I used to see, a lot of these stops weren't massively busy, not enough to warrant 10 buses an hour anyway. Whether they need more than the 4 X21s an hour, I wouldn't know.
The fact that you have 3 'Limited Stop' routes that follow the same route, some of which have non-stop sections and one which appears to serve most stops, just shows how poorly conceived and implemented these routes have been.
If users of this forum have been confused about where these routes stop or what routes they take, imagine how confusing the 'non enthusiast' public find them.
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 07:43:34 PM
I guess you could kind of include the X8 in that - Blackheath to Birmingham.
Ultimately, the bus just cannot compete with the train for time and (most of the time) price
I disagree, obviously it can in some more local cases - you will have more people using the 97 over the train in the Stechford area, the bus is very frequent regular and convient (it picks you up were you up a lot closer. The 97 is every 4 minutes, the train every 20, by the train arrives you could already be in Birmingham City Centre on the bus.
Obviously it can - hence why the X1 and X2 seem to be very successful (not just with passengers making local journeys but also longer ones Birmingham to Solihull/Airport, the X3/X4/X5 also seem to be very successful.
Tell me what train can I catch between Ward End and Acocks Green/Erdington/Stechford, the train doesn't go everywhere, with a NX pass you could make lots of journeys with it rather than being restricted to places served by the train, the bus is very convenient hence why thousands of people use it everyday, there are many places on the network that the train does not serve, someone may frequently need to travel between a place where the train does not serve as well as where it does serve.
You may get a return cheaper on the train, but there will be lots of people wanting to make more than 2 journeys a day.
A day ticket is much better value for money in my opinion as you can get on and of the bus and go wherever you like as many times as you like all day.
You also have cheaper NX season tickets, which'd be cheaper than using the train
Quote from: Mike K on September 07, 2018, 07:55:22 PM
I think the X21 does now serve most of the stops between city and QE in both directions. From what I used to see, a lot of these stops weren't massively busy, not enough to warrant 10 buses an hour anyway. Whether they need more than the 4 X21s an hour, I wouldn't know.
The fact that you have 3 'Limited Stop' routes that follow the same route, some of which have non-stop sections and one which appears to serve most stops, just shows how poorly conceived and implemented these routes have been.
If users of this forum have been confused about where these routes stop or what routes they take, imagine how confusing the 'non enthusiast' public find them.
To be honest the stop by Five Ways on Wheeleys Road seems to be getting busier. As for the other stops it may depend on when the students use them, but you do tend to get some usage. The X21 could probably cope but not with single deckers.
Does anybody know whether the routes will be using George Road both ways or just inbound?
Yes I can imagine there's a lot of confused people about. I don't get the X20/X22 so I can't say but I'd imagine there's probably people getting on them wanting to get off during the non stop stretch. They need to scrap the pathetic new destination displays and put the express service or non stop in the displays on the X20/X22 and show things like University (The Vale) on the X21 which may help things.
I noticed on another thread something about the X7 not being well advertised well I don't think these have been either.
Quote from: 2206 on September 07, 2018, 07:56:36 PM
I disagree, obviously it can in some more local cases - you will have more people using the 97 over the train in the Stechford area, the bus is very frequent regular and convient (it picks you up were you up a lot closer. The 97 is every 4 minutes, the train every 20, by the train arrives you could already be in Birmingham City Centre on the bus.
Obviously it can - hence why the X1 and X2 seem to be very successful (not just with passengers making local journeys but also longer ones Birmingham to Solihull/Airport, the X3/X4/X5 also seem to be very successful.
Tell me what train can I catch between Ward End and Acocks Green/Erdington/Stechford, the train doesn't go everywhere, with a NX pass you could make lots of journeys with it rather than being restricted to places served by the train, the bus is very convenient hence why thousands of people use it everyday, there are many places on the network that the train does not serve, someone may frequently need to travel between a place where the train does not serve as well as where it does serve.
You may get a return cheaper on the train, but there will be lots of people wanting to make more than 2 journeys a day.
A day ticket is much better value for money in my opinion as you can get on and of the bus and go wherever you like as many times as you like all day.
You also have cheaper NX season tickets, which'd be cheaper than using the train
Well, yeah, trains don't run in those areas, of course, I'm referring to areas where train & bus is the option.
You know when I say 'time' I'm talking about journey wise, the bus just cannot compete. Like I said, majority of the time, the train is a cheaper option. Take my local station, Smethwick Galton Bridge, bus to City Centre - £2.40 one way, £4-£4.50 return, train to City Centre - £2.50 return
Quote from: 2206 on September 07, 2018, 07:56:36 PM
I disagree, obviously it can in some more local cases - you will have more people using the 97 over the train in the Stechford area, the bus is very frequent regular and convient (it picks you up were you up a lot closer. The 97 is every 4 minutes, the train every 20, by the train arrives you could already be in Birmingham City Centre on the bus.
Obviously it can - hence why the X1 and X2 seem to be very successful (not just with passengers making local journeys but also longer ones Birmingham to Solihull/Airport, the X3/X4/X5 also seem to be very successful.
Tell me what train can I catch between Ward End and Acocks Green/Erdington/Stechford, the train doesn't go everywhere, with a NX pass you could make lots of journeys with it rather than being restricted to places served by the train, the bus is very convenient hence why thousands of people use it everyday, there are many places on the network that the train does not serve, someone may frequently need to travel between a place where the train does not serve as well as where it does serve.
You may get a return cheaper on the train, but there will be lots of people wanting to make more than 2 journeys a day.
A day ticket is much better value for money in my opinion as you can get on and of the bus and go wherever you like as many times as you like all day.
You also have cheaper NX season tickets, which'd be cheaper than using the train
You're missing the point. We're saying that these services are alternatives to the train. Naming places that doesn't have a train service originally is irrelevant to the point.
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 07:43:34 PM
I guess you could kind of include the X8 in that - Blackheath to Birmingham.
Ultimately, the bus just cannot compete with the train for time and (most of the time) price
Yeah you really could to be honest, with Rowley Regis being a 5-10 min walk. In addition to that, as much as its a long standing route, you could say the X51, began the moment.
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 08:12:49 PM
You're missing the point. We're saying that these services are alternatives to the train. Naming places that doesn't have a train service originally is irrelevant to the point.
I believe that in some cases they can compete with the train.
I've used the X3/X4/X5 in normal conditions they don't take much longer than the train, these paticular routes compete directly with the train - very busy routes with people frequently getting on, the service are very well used (these people could have used the train).
I've seen pleanty of people using the X1 and X2 through between Birmingham and the Airport and Solihull,2 very well used routes, the X1 is a well established route
The 97 competes directly with the train - the bus is much more frequent than the train (the 97 is every 4 minutes (high frequency busy service - whereas with the train Bordesley Green (Addersley Park have a hourly frequency), Stechford and Lea Hall (Every 20 minutes)
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 08:14:11 PM
Yeah you really could to be honest, with Rowley Regis being a 5-10 min walk. In addition to that, as much as its a long standing route, you could say the X51, began the moment.
The X8 can't even match the train for frequency. Although I do like the idea of the 140 being sped up from Quinton to Birmingham.
I suppose that's fair to say, the X51 is a decent alternative to train - not saying I would use it over the train though
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 08:14:11 PM
Yeah you really could to be honest, with Rowley Regis being a 5-10 min walk. In addition to that, as much as its a long standing route, you could say the X51, began the moment.
And the X1 isn't?
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 07:23:11 PM
To try and compete with the train. If you look over some of the changes over recent years, a lot of the 'express routes' are along major train lines.
X1 - Birmingham international - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X2 - Solihull - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X7 - Wolverhampton to Smethwick then Smethwick to Snow Hill
X10 - Cradley Heath - Birmingham
X20/21/22 - University - City
The X1 is hardly a new route.
Its been operating for 30 years now.
Its previous number was 900 (It may have been renumbered in recent years, but its exactly the same route).
Quote from: 2206 on September 07, 2018, 08:24:15 PM
And the X1 isn't?Its been operating for 30 years now.
That's a long time
Quote from: 2206 on September 07, 2018, 08:24:15 PM
And the X1 isn't?The X1 is hardly a new route.
Its been operating for 30 years now.
Its previous number was 900 (It may have been renumbered in recent years, but its exactly the same route).
Read the text in the brackets.
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 08:31:51 PM
Read the text in the brackets.
That doesn't mean its a different route?
Whether it was renumbered or not, it is still same well established route.
At the time of renumbering nothing changed.
Quote from: 2206 on September 07, 2018, 08:33:52 PM
That doesn't mean its a different route?
Whether it was renumbered or not, it is still same well established route.
At the time of renumbering nothing changed.
Pretty sure I said in brackets. Hence the "(becoming limited stop down the A45)"
I'm not saying it's a different route. Just that it was a service change, the limited stop section. Same applies to the X10.
This made journey times quicker between City and International. Not only that but also the increase in frequency.
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 08:36:35 PM
Pretty sure I said in brackets. Hence the "(becoming limited stop down the A45)"
This made journey times quicker between City and International. Not only that but also the increase in frequency.
The 900 was always limited stop down the A45.
If anything a few more stops along the A45 were added over the years - in 2009 the 900 never used to stop at Broadyates Road, Barrows Lane and Gilberstone Avenue, the 900 later did and the X1 currently does - with 3 other stops that were added being removed in 2016/17 (these 3 are always lightly used).
But overall there's been very little change - the X1 is certainly not much quicker down the A45 than the 900 used to be.
The frequency most certainly has increased, but that'd be due to increased usage and demand.
I'd assume you are referring to the minor change where the 3 underused stops (Keswick Road, Clay Lane and Wagon Lane) were removed, it may well have slightly speeded up journey times.
Quote from: Dom on September 07, 2018, 08:36:35 PM
Pretty sure I said in brackets. Hence the "(becoming limited stop down the A45)"
I'm not saying it's a different route. Just that it was a service change, the limited stop section. Same applies to the X10.
This made journey times quicker between City and International. Not only that but also the increase in frequency.
You could get a train to International and back in the time it takes you to get to International on the X1 (even if you get the all stops service each way - excluding dwell times). Could do a couple of round trips to Cov and back on the train before you reach Pool Meadow on the X1
Stechford and Lea Hall are 2 trains per hour each way, Marston Green is 3
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 08:44:04 PM
You could get a train to International and back in the time it takes you to get to International on the X1 (even if you get the all stops service each way - excluding dwell times). Could do a couple of round trips to Cov and back on the train before you reach Pool Meadow on the X1
Stechford and Lea Hall are 2 trains per hour each way, Marston Green is 3
But there isn't the demand at these stations. I've worked at Marston Green several times and apart from the morning and evening peak there is no requirement for more trains.
Im not saying that the bus is going to be quicker than the train because that's simply not going to happen, I'm saying NX are making the bus more appealing for said journeys, cheaper fares, quicker services than their predecessor, higher spec buses (all Platinum services).
The 17 used to go to Marston Green, I remember driving it, however no one ever went straight through to Birmingham City Centre
I also remember when the 900 was the 159. Timesaver routes were introduced that's when it changed to the 900.
Quote from: V89MOA on September 07, 2018, 06:41:08 PM
Misquoting me again? I have moaned about Abellio deeming it acceptable to reduce the number of seats on the line when patronage is growing, I do not have an issue with people using the service!!
I don't accept that theory either, before the changes they had to lay on extra peaktime 98Es between Brum and the Q.E. to cope so it isn't exactly a new thing that that section is busy...
Wasn't the reduction in carriages due to cover the bromsgrove extension. Capicity will be restored with the introduction of the 730s
I thought I'd try an X22 into town today, which was weird being back on the Quinton Road again (not as weird as that turn from the Quinton Road stop to the Metchley Lane one though). But in all honesty if the X22 is going to be pick up and drop off where it's supposed to be non-stop I might as well have just got the X21. Is it none stop or not?
Notice the stops on Wheeleys Road/Arthur Road are now including the X20/X22, apart from Arthur Road, Carpenter Road for some reason inbound which still says not in use. Is the end of the non stop services then? If so, that hasn't lasted very long.
Some of the benefits of having just 2 routes to Harborne were apparent this evening with a lot of consecutive buses adjusted - short workings on the 24 to Quinton Tesco and Harborne, followed by 6850 on the 23 which was adjusted part way through its journey to a short to Woodgate (36 minutes late when I got off).
I guess that wouldn't have been possible with 4 less frequent routes.
Quote from: Mike K on September 12, 2018, 07:22:53 PM
Some of the benefits of having just 2 routes to Harborne were apparent this evening with a lot of consecutive buses adjusted - short workings on the 24 to Quinton Tesco and Harborne, followed by 6850 on the 23 which was adjusted part way through its journey to a short to Woodgate (36 minutes late when I got off).
I guess that wouldn't have been possible with 4 less frequent routes.
To be fair I can't remember many occasions where you'd see two of the same route adjusted together like that. Also every other 29 was an E anyway, so even when they were bunched one would stop short.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 12, 2018, 07:50:41 PM
To be fair I can't remember many occasions where you'd see two of the same route adjusted together like that. Also every other 29 was an E anyway, so even when they were bunched one would stop short.
I suppose it wouldn't have been possible before with buses going to multiple destinations, as areas such as Kitwell, Weoley Castle etc could be without a bus for over 30 mins if vehicles were turned early. With everything going to the same couple of destinations, and buses running very late and in bunches, they can adjust some without adversely impacting the outlying areas.
The Harborne corridor is notoriously unreliable, at least now they have a better chance of managing late running. One benefit of a simplified corridor that I hadn't fully appreciated previously.
Looks like the bus gate on George Road is finished now, hopefully a stop will be added on that road for passengers going to Five Ways.
First day of the new Broad St diversions today, and based on this morning's experience at least, the new anti-clockwise loop the 23/24 are taking around the city seems much better than the old clockwise one.
However, as regards the new Square Peg terminus, as is usually the case, four 23s / 24s arrived together this morning, and the Sutton routes were struggling to get past and get into their stop.
Looking forward to being able to catch just one bus home in the evening again.
Quote from: Mike K on September 21, 2018, 10:14:48 AM
....
However, as regards the new Square Peg terminus, as is usually the case, four 23s / 24s arrived together this morning, and the Sutton routes were struggling to get past and get into their stop.
...
Looking forward to the chaos on Bull Street and Corporation Street. See the 23/24 just stopping or actually waiting time at the Square Peg?
Quote from: Kevin on September 21, 2018, 11:08:28 AM
Looking forward to the chaos on Bull Street and Corporation Street. See the 23/24 just stopping or actually waiting time at the Square Peg?
Walked past a 24 at the Square Peg this morning. Electronic countdown said it would be there for another 7 minutes before it was due out.
I did notice this morning they were using Bull St. I just managed to get my X14 into the stop at the Square Peg in front of 2 Harborne buses but the X4 behind had to stop in the road. Yes I imagine the chaos there when both set of routes are running late 😂
Quote from: Kevin on September 21, 2018, 11:08:28 AM
Looking forward to the chaos on Bull Street and Corporation Street. See the 23/24 just stopping or actually waiting time at the Square Peg?
In the unlikely event they're on time, they are scheduled to layover there for 4 mins each, the same as they were at the old Colmore Circus terminus. I'm assuming that this will also be the driver changeover stop, so there will likely be several parked up for some time at any one time in the evening rush hour if Colmore Circus is anything to go by.
Should be interesting.
EDIT: 4 Harborne buses parked at the Square Peg at this very moment, 3 with hazard lights on, with an Arriva 110 unable to squeeze past.
I saw a few 23/24s this morning which looked strange on Corporation St, at least they've made their way back onto Colemore Row again after all this time ;)
Quote from: Mike K on September 21, 2018, 12:59:37 PM
In the unlikely event they're on time, they are scheduled to layover there for 4 mins each, the same as they were at the old Colmore Circus terminus. I'm assuming that this will also be the driver changeover stop, so there will likely be several parked up for some time at any one time in the evening rush hour if Colmore Circus is anything to go by.
Should be interesting.
EDIT: 4 Harborne buses parked at the Square Peg at this very moment, 3 with hazard lights on, with an Arriva 110 unable to squeeze past.
Genius...
Le sigh, how long is this for again?
Quote from: Kevin on September 21, 2018, 02:07:51 PM
Genius...
Le sigh, how long is this for again?
1 year.
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 21, 2018, 07:26:09 AM
Looks like the bus gate on George Road is finished now, hopefully a stop will be added on that road for passengers going to Five Ways.
Now in use, albeit with temporary lights at the moment, and a temporary stop on George Road
X20/21/22 all using it and all stopping everywhere along the route through The Vale and down Bath Row as well
Edit.
Sorry, they miss a stop on Bath Row. That makes them "express"...
Quote from: Kevin on September 22, 2018, 12:18:23 PM
Now in use, albeit with temporary lights at the moment, and a temporary stop on George Road
X20/21/22 all using it and all stopping everywhere along the route through The Vale and down Bath Row as well
Edit.
Sorry, they miss a stop on Bath Row. That makes them "express"...
2 actually ;)
But yes, I agree. Hardly "express" anymore.
I noticed yesterday that the outbound bus stop on Harborne Road, at the junction with Brook Road, has been permanently relocated to just after the Richmond Hill Road junction.
Moving this stop is in the Harborne Road bus lane proposals so I'm hoping this means work on that will be starting soon. It can't come soon enough, although it still wouldn't have helped much this morning when it took 35 minutes to get from War Lane to the Green Man.
So I heard a rumour today that the changes made are just a 6 month trial with NX wanting to see if they will work. Apparently this came from one of the drivers. I doubt it myself, but any truth to this at all?
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 29, 2018, 06:30:39 PM
So I heard a rumour today that the changes made are just a 6 month trial with NX wanting to see if they will work. Apparently this came from one of the drivers. I doubt it myself, but any truth to this at all?
I have also heard this but from another customer whilst waiting for a bus. NX haven't done that in the past though have they?, so why would these be an exception? ???
Quote from: Dylanbusboy45 on September 29, 2018, 07:48:03 PM
I have also heard this but from another customer whilst waiting for a bus. NX haven't done that in the past though have they?, so why would these be an exception? ???
Complete rubbish
So, seeing as that 7 months have passed since these changes were implemented, will NX be reviewing them at all? They must have an idea about what has worked, hasn't worked, needs tweaking etc.
Apart from a slight change to the 61 I haven't heard about anything else?
Quote from: MasterPlan on February 16, 2019, 04:52:36 PM
So, seeing as that 7 months have passed since these changes were implemented, will NX be reviewing them at all? They must have an idea about what has worked, hasn't worked, needs tweaking etc.
Apart from a slight change to the 61 I haven't heard about anything else?
Cough uni services don't work at peaks cough
Quote from: MasterPlan on February 16, 2019, 04:52:36 PM
So, seeing as that 7 months have passed since these changes were implemented, will NX be reviewing them at all? They must have an idea about what has worked, hasn't worked, needs tweaking etc.
Apart from a slight change to the 61 I haven't heard about anything else?
63s need frequency improving. The 63 always seems very busy compared to the 61.
Quote from: B.C Driver on February 16, 2019, 07:23:55 PM
63s need frequency improving. The 63 always seems very busy compared to the 61.
Well it serves more areas than the 61. Perhaps the extention to the 61 might help it.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on February 16, 2019, 04:53:22 PM
Cough uni services don't work at peaks cough
Would you like to elaborate on that further?
Quote from: Stu on February 16, 2019, 07:31:05 PM
Would you like to elaborate on that further?
Not sure about the mornings but in the evenings the services are chaos. X20s often in convoys and x22s get very late too. And the B7RLES on the x21 are inadequate for the passengers in the peak especially however during the day they can also be quite full. Some more time adding to the timetables might help but then that would increase PVRs
Quote from: Stu on February 16, 2019, 07:31:05 PM
Would you like to elaborate on that further?
They've quite frankly failed across the board. Can't think of any positives.
Quote from: MasterPlan on February 18, 2019, 05:42:42 PM
They've quite frankly failed across the board. Can't think of any positives.
Surely some of the blame should lie with Birmingham City Council and the Highways Agency for not providing enough bus priorities !
Does anyone. Think the express 47 they were proposing at consultation , could have worked if pursed ?
Quote from: MasterPlan on February 18, 2019, 05:42:42 PM
They've quite frankly failed across the board. Can't think of any positives.
The extra capacity and double decker platinum buses on the X20/22 must be a positive for Uni/QE to B'ham passengers. They weren't that frequent and less buses were on there prior to the changes. A few years back there was an every 20 minute 636 using small midi buses instead, so its a massive improvement over that. NX can't control traffic problems as they are beyond there control.
The original proposal was that the 47 would have gone via University I think, putting more buses on that corridor. Similar to what the X20/21/22 do, so not like the X51/X7 if that's what you mean. They've already increased the frequency on that corridor with the new routes.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on February 18, 2019, 05:54:02 PM
Surely some of the blame should lie with Birmingham City Council and the Highways Agency for not providing enough bus priorities !
I agree, and that is a point I raised in my comments on the current Birmingham Bus Survey being undertaken by Birmingham City Council.
From reading various comments on social media, most people taking part will just complain about the usual: 'dirty buses', 'always late', 'don't feel safe', 'too expensive' etc. All valid concerns to raise, however there is naff all that the city council can do about those issues as they don't operate the bus services.
If nobody challenges the council with regards to poor highway management, and endless streams of disruptive "improvement works", as well as a failure to deliver adequate bus priority measures as part of these 'improvement works', the council will just assume that "everything is fine then" and just carry on as normal.
There is more about this survey on my website: http://westmidlandsbususers.co.uk/2019/02/birmingham-city-council-bus-survey-have-your-say/
Quote from: Steve3229vp on February 18, 2019, 05:54:02 PM
Surely some of the blame should lie with Birmingham City Council and the Highways Agency for not providing enough bus priorities !
Some, yes. But NX are not exactly blameless.
Quote from: MasterPlan on February 18, 2019, 08:26:57 PM
Some, yes. But NX are not exactly blameless.
Please explain