South Birmingham Consultation 2017

[BigDaddyCool]

I'm all for changes over nostalgia routes. Nostalgia doesn't get me to work on time - an efficient network will maybe improve the current scenario which at times is becoming farcical.

[Kevin]

I worry here that they'll stealthily reduce service levels.
Example, replacing the 22/23 with one single route but not actually maintaining the frequency those areas had, maybe claiming turn up and go frequency through Harborne joint with the 24 but down to every 10 on the rest

[2206]

What's the point? The 31 doesn't need to follow the 37 for most of the route. I highly doubt the 37 will have a reduced frequency, being it combines with the 6, the 6 and 37 are the most frequent services on Stratford Road. I never hear anyone moan about the 31 taking ages to get through Stratford Road. It's mainly just the daytimes and evening rush hour it's bad, I've been on the 2 and 6 a few times at 7:30 in the morning and they flew through Sparkhill at that time so the 5 and 31 would be the same. The only change I think the 31 needs to make is to serve Redstone Farm Road so it's not stuck in chaos on Pitmaston Road. Unless you completely rerouted it and don't let it serve Gospel Oak at all, but that will never happen.
I highly doubt that.

Faster journey time to the City Centre for people in Gospel Oak would be the point. The daytimes and evening rush hour would be when it's most used surely, evening rush hour especially? I don't realy see any problems with the proposed changes, the 1/1A would still provide local links with Springfield, Acocks Green and Gospel Oak.

[Sh4318]

I worry here that they'll stealthily reduce service levels.
Example, replacing the 22/23 with one single route but not actually maintaining the frequency those areas had, maybe claiming turn up and go frequency through Harborne joint with the 24 but down to every 10 on the rest

I thought that, with the proposal to re-direct the 47 through the QE. Surely wouldn't still be every 12 minutes if it was re-directed

[Sh4318]

Faster journey time to the City Centre for people in Gospel Oak would be the point. The daytimes and evening rush hour would be when it's most used surely, evening rush hour especially? I don't realy see any problems with the proposed changes, the 1/1A would still provide local links with Springfield, Acocks Green and Gospel Oak.

I'm sure the extra double deckers at peak time between City & Acocks Green would also be welcomed along the Warwick Road.

I think the 1A would be a welcome addition, meaning that not all journeys to Five Ways will increase in length

[Steve3229vp]

I thought that, with the proposal to re-direct the 47 through the QE. Surely wouldn't still be every 12 minutes if it was re-directed

I would think that every 20 minutes is more likely

[Stu]

The point of this consultation (as well as others) is to get feedback and opinions from passengers in those areas who actually use these services as an essential part of their daily lives (ie to get to work or go shopping etc).

The facts of the matter are:

• That traffic congestion, especially at peak times, is a major issue for service reliability
• That passenger habits have changed, ie employment opportunities have changed, and retail opportunities have changed.
• Even road layouts have changed

On the whole, we have a bus network dating back to the 1980s, if not earlier, even taking into account recent reviews that have taken place this century.

Times have changed, and people have moved on, what might have been a great bus network in the 1980s is clearly not fit for purpose today. So I agree with the earlier reply, there's no point moaning about bus services changing because 'nostalgia'. 8)

But there is also a lot more to be done, as traffic congestion isn't going away. The whole road network around Birmingham is simply not designed to cope with the volume of traffic we are seeing every day now. The recent Bordesley Circus 'pinch-point' works have become a joke, as they were clearly designed to alleviate a 'pinch-point' provided the traffic on the ring road was flowing freely. But because the ring road is frequently becoming congested (due to traffic issues elsewhere, namely the Aston Expressway and M6!), the Bordesley Circus design just means now that Coventry Road is the new 'pinch-point', meaning the 17, 60, X1 and X2 end up getting seriously delayed.

Anyway, I'm starting to rant, so I'd better calm down. My point is that what these consultations need is for actual commuting passengers to take part and make their views known, as the risk is that these reviews end up getting distorted by 'bus-bashers' who just travel around on buses for the sake of doing so (nothing against actual 'bus-bashers' by the way, but I hope you see where I'm coming from).

So please do feel free to have an opinion, but bear in mind that if change is going to take place, it must be shaped by people who actually rely on bus services, the people who hold the key to making a more useful bus network.

Destroying long-standing routes and coming up with bizzare replacements won't change that.

Have you ever been to London? London is full of what what you might consider 'bizarre' routes, that just seem to go to random places, but you know what, it works.

I'm all for changes over nostalgia routes. Nostalgia doesn't get me to work on time - an efficient network will maybe improve the current scenario which at times is becoming farcical.

I completely agree. While I'm of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset generally, the whole West Midlands bus network badly needs a massive overhaul, and I don't really care if any 'historic' bus routes get altered beyond recognition, if that is what is actually needed.

[MasterPlan]

It's nothing to do with nostalgia. My point is, traffic is going to happen no matter which way you enter and depart the city centre. So I really don't see how chopping and changing the outbound section of routes is going to make things any better. I can't comment from everybody's perspective but fron mine I cannot see any benefits. What stands as two routes into the City that take the same amount of time, will by the looks of things be replaced with 1 route. Will this improve reliability? No. Does travelling along the Vale to and from City avoid the traffic? No. I've been on plenty of journeys that have crawled along those roads. Also the QE consultation I counted NINE routes being suggested to go in and out of it. Which is beyond ridiculous. It can just about cope with the amount that goes there now. Diverting the X61 there is laughable. You might as well remove the X now as those journies that will apparently also now include Cofton Hackett and Rubery will become very long-winded.

[Tony]

It's nothing to do with nostalgia. My point is, traffic is going to happen no matter which way you enter and depart the city centre.

No, some corridors suffer far worse than others, at the moment Harborne Road is by far the worst, so that affects the whole rest of your comments

[Mike K]

You make some valid points Stu which I wouldn't disagree with, however on the south west and south side of the city the suggestions largely centre around 'simplifying' core routes, which means basically reducing 2 routes down to one which is unlikely to maintain the old combined frequency, and having a second route which diverts via the QE Hospital and into the city.

There seems to be a misguided notion that sending certain routes via the QE and The Vale etc will improve journey times and reliability.

Well it didn't work out well for the 99.

[MasterPlan]

No, some corridors suffer far worse than others, at the moment Harborne Road is by far the worst, so that affects the whole rest of your comments

No it doesn't, the X64 doesn't use the Harborne Road. Neither does the X61.

As for your comment though, surely the Harbone Road itself isn't as much the problem as is the fact that they loop around the entire city centre before departing it? Surely a lot of time could be saved by returning these routes back to Colemore Row? I understand the New Street link has been profitable but if delays are caused at such a severe magnitude then is it worth it?

[MasterPlan]

There seems to be a misguided notion that sending certain routes via the QE and The Vale etc will improve journey times and reliability.

This. In a nutshell. Sums it all up.

[Stu]

You make some valid points Stu which I wouldn't disagree with, however on the south west and south side of the city the suggestions largely centre around 'simplifying' core routes, which means basically reducing 2 routes down to one which is unlikely to maintain the old combined frequency, and having a second route which diverts via the QE Hospital and into the city.

There seems to be a misguided notion that sending certain routes via the QE and The Vale etc will improve journey times and reliability.

Well it didn't work out well for the 99.

My point is that I don't use those services in the southwest and south side of the city, so I don't really have any valid opinions to share, so I am not going to make any suggestions for that area of the review, as its not really my place.

I would hate for the consultation to be influenced by people who don't regularly use those services, but like things how they are, "because its a nice scenic route" or "its always gone that way" etc. It must be ultimately up to those passengers who rely on those routes. If there is a large demand from passengers for buses to go to the QE or University, because that is what they want, they should be listened to.

Anyway, I agree with the proposal for the 31 service, as it would become another useful route for me to get home, alongside the 37, which is actually becoming quicker for me, rather than getting the X1/X2 in the evenings. So I have submitted my comments on this area of the consultation, as it is actually relevant to me. ;)

[Tony]

No it doesn't, the X64 doesn't use the Harborne Road. Neither does the X61.

As for your comment though, surely the Harbone Road itself isn't as much the problem as is the fact that they loop around the entire city centre before departing it? Surely a lot of time could be saved by returning these routes back to Colemore Row? I understand the New Street link has been profitable but if delays are caused at such a severe magnitude then is it worth it?

I spend most of my working time in Urban Traffic Control centre at Lancaster Circus watching traffic flows on both the NX system and the Birmingham Council/Amey Traffic control Cameras.
On Harborne Road it regularly takes 15 minutes from the bottom of the High Street to the white Swan, a distance of not much more than a mile. I can walk at that pace. They do not get delayed around the city loop in general in the mornings and the time it takes is obviously scheduled in, so it is not a delay.

In the morning peak on a normal day Harborne Road and Hagley Road are by far the worst roads to be coming into Birmingham on. Of course all other roads in have bad days, but the staff in the UTC can help traffic flows with manual control of traffic lights at some places, but the worst part of Harborne Road has no traffic light controlled junctions so they cannot help at all

[MasterPlan]

What time is classed as the morning peak? I know that it's most likely after the time I get the bus into town, but I'm just curious.