South Birmingham Consultation 2017

[Dom]

Do NX still offer the University/QE £1 “city hop” fares? The one that’s exclusive to students and NHS employees?

They do indeed

** Apologies, hadn't seen that people had already responded. **

[Dom]

Regardless... The fact that as a result of the review extra buses have been put on between the Uni and Brum would suggest demand is there.

Not necessarily that it is there more the potential of it being there. As maybe its them trying to win passengers off the train. As you're a regular moaner about how busy the cross city line gets, I'm amazed that hasn't crossed your mind. As it makes a hell of a lot of sense from NXs point of view.

Especially since excluding all large stations (Birmingham stations, Wolverhampton etc.) University station is the busiest on the network.

In the same breath I agree with @Sh4318. Despite the unreliability of the Cross City line at times, I'd still rather get the train over the bus to the city centre. Unless your journey required a bus every single day i wouldn't see why they're buy a travel card. If, like Joe has mentioned, they get a travel card for the off the cuff journey to see friends or go for a drink, I'd rather get a PAYG Swift card or pay by contactless. Atleast then I'm only paying when I use it. Instead of pissing money down the drain on days I dont.

[V89MOA]

Not necessarily that it is there more the potential of it being there. As maybe its them trying to win passengers off the train. As you're a regular moaner about how busy the cross city line gets, I'm amazed that hasn't crossed your mind. As it makes a hell of a lot of sense from NXs point of view.

Especially since excluding all large stations (Birmingham stations, Wolverhampton etc.) University station is the busiest on the network.

Misquoting me again? I have moaned about Abellio deeming it acceptable to reduce the number of seats on the line when patronage is growing, I do not have an issue with people using the service!!
I don't accept that theory either, before the changes they had to lay on extra peaktime 98Es between Brum and the Q.E. to cope so it isn't exactly a new thing that that section is busy...

[Mike K]

Misquoting me again? I have moaned about Abellio deeming it acceptable to reduce the number of seats on the line when patronage is growing, I do not have an issue with people using the service!!
I don't accept that theory either, before the changes they had to lay on extra peaktime 98Es between Brum and the Q.E. to cope so it isn't exactly a new thing that that section is busy...

The peak time extras still exist as short working X20s now the summer timetable is over.

[Dom]

Misquoting me again? I have moaned about Abellio deeming it acceptable to reduce the number of seats on the line when patronage is growing, I do not have an issue with people using the service!!
I don't accept that theory either, before the changes they had to lay on extra peaktime 98Es between Brum and the Q.E. to cope so it isn't exactly a new thing that that section is busy...

Well now you're misquoting me. I simply stated that maybe they're trying to win more passengers off the busier Cross City line.

You just can't accept someone elses point can you. You always have to be correct.

[V89MOA]

The peak time extras still exist as short working X20s now the summer timetable is over.

Exactly, it's been a very well used section of route for years!

You just can't accept someone elses point can you. You always have to be correct.

Pot calling the kettle black?

No I haven't misquoted you, I am simply backing up my argument that the route is a busy route, hence why it now has more buses than before.

[MasterPlan]

It was lauched before the introduction of the X20/X21/X22.
It was introduced ages ago, at the time the 98/X64 were still operating - the B7RLE used to have University Hop vinyls.

So did some e400s for the 63. Not sure about the X61 MMCs.

[sonic84]

What I don't understand is why they have made that section limited stop when it is the busiest section.

And have NXWM explained how you are meant to get into Birmingham if you live between Edgbaston Church and the city centre.

[MasterPlan]

What I don't understand is why they have made that section limited stop when it is the busiest section.

And have NXWM explained how you are meant to get into Birmingham if you live between Edgbaston Church and the city centre.

The X21 stops along there now towards City, despite the stops still saying 'not in use'.

But yes, they've gone from every 10 mins along that section (98/X64) to every 15 mins (X21)

[Dom]

What I don't understand is why they have made that section limited stop when it is the busiest section.

And have NXWM explained how you are meant to get into Birmingham if you live between Edgbaston Church and the city centre.

To try and compete with the train. If you look over some of the changes over recent years, a lot of the 'express routes' are along major train lines.

X1 - Birmingham international - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X2 - Solihull - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X7 - Wolverhampton to Smethwick then Smethwick to Snow Hill
X10 - Cradley Heath - Birmingham
X20/21/22 - University - City

[sonic84]

To try and compete with the train. If you look over some of the changes over recent years, a lot of the 'express routes' are along major train lines.

X1 - Birmingham international - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X2 - Solihull - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X7 - Wolverhampton to Smethwick then Smethwick to Snow Hill
X10 - Cradley Heath - Birmingham
X20/21/22 - University - City

I can understand that but those routes all have all stopping alternatives. I think at least one of those routes should have been all stopping along up to Five Ways as on all those routes you can not get on or off in the direction of the city centre but there is no alternative all stopping service to get.

[Sh4318]

To try and compete with the train. If you look over some of the changes over recent years, a lot of the 'express routes' are along major train lines.

X1 - Birmingham international - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X2 - Solihull - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X7 - Wolverhampton to Smethwick then Smethwick to Snow Hill
X10 - Cradley Heath - Birmingham
X20/21/22 - University - City

I guess you could kind of include the X8 in that - Blackheath to Birmingham.

Ultimately, the bus just cannot compete with the train for time and (most of the time) price

[Mike K]

I can understand that but those routes all have all stopping alternatives. I think at least one of those routes should have been all stopping along up to Five Ways as on all those routes you can not get on or off in the direction of the city centre but there is no alternative all stopping service to get.

I think the X21 does now serve most of the stops between city and QE in both directions. From what I used to see, a lot of these stops weren't massively busy, not enough to warrant 10 buses an hour anyway. Whether they need more than the 4 X21s an hour, I wouldn't know.

The fact that you have 3 'Limited Stop' routes that follow the same route, some of which have non-stop sections and one which appears to serve most stops, just shows how poorly conceived and implemented these routes have been.

If users of this forum have been confused about where these routes stop or what routes they take, imagine how confusing the 'non enthusiast' public find them.

[2206]

I guess you could kind of include the X8 in that - Blackheath to Birmingham.

Ultimately, the bus just cannot compete with the train for time and (most of the time) price

I disagree, obviously it can in some more local cases - you will have more people using the 97 over the train in the Stechford area, the bus is very frequent regular and convient (it picks you up were you up a lot closer. The 97 is every 4 minutes, the train every 20, by the train arrives you could already be in Birmingham City Centre on the bus.
Obviously it can - hence why the X1 and X2 seem to be very successful (not just with passengers making local journeys but also longer ones Birmingham to Solihull/Airport, the X3/X4/X5 also seem to be very successful.

Tell me what train can I catch between Ward End and Acocks Green/Erdington/Stechford, the train doesn't go everywhere, with a NX pass you could make lots of journeys with it rather than being restricted to places served by the train, the bus is very convenient hence why thousands of people use it everyday, there are many places on the network that the train does not serve, someone may frequently need to travel between a place where the train does not serve as well as where it does serve.

You may get a return cheaper on the train, but there will be lots of people wanting to make more than 2 journeys a day.
A day ticket is much better value for money in my opinion as you can get on and of the bus and go wherever you like as many times as you like all day.
You also have cheaper NX season tickets, which'd be cheaper than using the train

[MasterPlan]

I think the X21 does now serve most of the stops between city and QE in both directions. From what I used to see, a lot of these stops weren't massively busy, not enough to warrant 10 buses an hour anyway. Whether they need more than the 4 X21s an hour, I wouldn't know.

The fact that you have 3 'Limited Stop' routes that follow the same route, some of which have non-stop sections and one which appears to serve most stops, just shows how poorly conceived and implemented these routes have been.

If users of this forum have been confused about where these routes stop or what routes they take, imagine how confusing the 'non enthusiast' public find them.

To be honest the stop by Five Ways on Wheeleys Road seems to be getting busier. As for the other stops it may depend on when the students use them, but you do tend to get some usage. The X21 could probably cope but not with single deckers.

Does anybody know whether the routes will be using George Road both ways or just inbound?

Yes I can imagine there's a lot of confused people about. I don't get the X20/X22 so I can't say but I'd imagine there's probably people getting on them wanting to get off during the non stop stretch. They need to scrap the pathetic new destination displays and put the express service or non stop in the displays on the X20/X22 and show things like University (The Vale) on the X21 which may help things.
I noticed on another thread something about the X7 not being well advertised well I don't think these have been either.