South Birmingham Consultation 2017

[Sh4318]

I disagree, obviously it can in some more local cases - you will have more people using the 97 over the train in the Stechford area, the bus is very frequent regular and convient (it picks you up were you up a lot closer. The 97 is every 4 minutes, the train every 20, by the train arrives you could already be in Birmingham City Centre on the bus.
Obviously it can - hence why the X1 and X2 seem to be very successful (not just with passengers making local journeys but also longer ones Birmingham to Solihull/Airport, the X3/X4/X5 also seem to be very successful.

Tell me what train can I catch between Ward End and Acocks Green/Erdington/Stechford, the train doesn't go everywhere, with a NX pass you could make lots of journeys with it rather than being restricted to places served by the train, the bus is very convenient hence why thousands of people use it everyday, there are many places on the network that the train does not serve, someone may frequently need to travel between a place where the train does not serve as well as where it does serve.

You may get a return cheaper on the train, but there will be lots of people wanting to make more than 2 journeys a day.
A day ticket is much better value for money in my opinion as you can get on and of the bus and go wherever you like as many times as you like all day.
You also have cheaper NX season tickets, which'd be cheaper than using the train

Well, yeah, trains don't run in those areas, of course, I'm referring to areas where train & bus is the option.

You know when I say 'time' I'm talking about journey wise, the bus just cannot compete. Like I said, majority of the time, the train is a cheaper option. Take my local station, Smethwick Galton Bridge, bus to City Centre - £2.40 one way, £4-£4.50 return, train to City Centre - £2.50 return

[Dom]

I disagree, obviously it can in some more local cases - you will have more people using the 97 over the train in the Stechford area, the bus is very frequent regular and convient (it picks you up were you up a lot closer. The 97 is every 4 minutes, the train every 20, by the train arrives you could already be in Birmingham City Centre on the bus.
Obviously it can - hence why the X1 and X2 seem to be very successful (not just with passengers making local journeys but also longer ones Birmingham to Solihull/Airport, the X3/X4/X5 also seem to be very successful.

Tell me what train can I catch between Ward End and Acocks Green/Erdington/Stechford, the train doesn't go everywhere, with a NX pass you could make lots of journeys with it rather than being restricted to places served by the train, the bus is very convenient hence why thousands of people use it everyday, there are many places on the network that the train does not serve, someone may frequently need to travel between a place where the train does not serve as well as where it does serve.

You may get a return cheaper on the train, but there will be lots of people wanting to make more than 2 journeys a day.
A day ticket is much better value for money in my opinion as you can get on and of the bus and go wherever you like as many times as you like all day.
You also have cheaper NX season tickets, which'd be cheaper than using the train

You're missing the point. We're saying that these services are alternatives to the train. Naming places that doesn't have a train service originally is irrelevant to the point.

[Dom]

I guess you could kind of include the X8 in that - Blackheath to Birmingham.

Ultimately, the bus just cannot compete with the train for time and (most of the time) price

Yeah you really could to be honest, with Rowley Regis being a 5-10 min walk. In addition to that, as much as its a long standing route, you could say the X51, began the moment.

[2206]

You're missing the point. We're saying that these services are alternatives to the train. Naming places that doesn't have a train service originally is irrelevant to the point.

I believe that in some cases they can compete with the train.
I've used the X3/X4/X5 in normal conditions they don't take much longer than the train, these paticular routes compete directly with the train - very busy routes with people frequently getting on, the service are very well used (these people could have used the train).
I've seen pleanty of people using the X1 and X2 through between Birmingham and the Airport and Solihull,2 very well used routes, the X1 is a  well established route
The 97 competes directly with the train - the bus is much more frequent than the train (the 97 is every 4 minutes (high frequency busy service - whereas with the train Bordesley Green (Addersley Park have a hourly frequency), Stechford and Lea Hall (Every 20 minutes)

[Sh4318]

Yeah you really could to be honest, with Rowley Regis being a 5-10 min walk. In addition to that, as much as its a long standing route, you could say the X51, began the moment.

The X8 can't even match the train for frequency. Although I do like the idea of the 140 being sped up from Quinton to Birmingham.

I suppose that's fair to say, the X51 is a decent alternative to train - not saying I would use it over the train though

[2206]

Yeah you really could to be honest, with Rowley Regis being a 5-10 min walk. In addition to that, as much as its a long standing route, you could say the X51, began the moment.

And the X1 isn't?

To try and compete with the train. If you look over some of the changes over recent years, a lot of the 'express routes' are along major train lines.

X1 - Birmingham international - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X2 - Solihull - City (becoming limited stop down the A45)
X7 - Wolverhampton to Smethwick then Smethwick to Snow Hill
X10 - Cradley Heath - Birmingham
X20/21/22 - University - City

The X1 is hardly a new route.
Its been operating for 30 years now.
Its previous number was 900 (It may have been renumbered in recent years, but its exactly the same route).

[I love Walsall buses]

And the X1 isn't?Its been operating for 30 years now.

That's a long time

[Dom]

And the X1 isn't?The X1 is hardly a new route.
Its been operating for 30 years now.
Its previous number was 900 (It may have been renumbered in recent years, but its exactly the same route).

Read the text in the brackets.

[2206]

Read the text in the brackets.

That doesn't mean its a different route?
Whether it was renumbered or not, it is still same well established route.
At the time of renumbering nothing changed.

[Dom]

That doesn't mean its a different route?
Whether it was renumbered or not, it is still same well established route.
At the time of renumbering nothing changed.

Pretty sure I said in brackets. Hence the "(becoming limited stop down the A45)"

I'm not saying it's a different route. Just that it was a service change, the limited stop section. Same applies to the X10.

This made journey times quicker between City and International. Not only that but also the increase in frequency.

[2206]

Pretty sure I said in brackets. Hence the "(becoming limited stop down the A45)"

This made journey times quicker between City and International. Not only that but also the increase in frequency.

The 900 was always limited stop down the A45.
If anything a few more stops along the A45 were added over the years - in 2009 the 900 never used to stop at Broadyates Road, Barrows Lane and Gilberstone Avenue, the 900 later did and the X1 currently does - with 3 other stops that were added being removed in 2016/17 (these 3 are always lightly used).
But overall there's been very little change - the X1 is certainly not much quicker down the A45 than the 900 used to be.

The frequency most certainly has increased, but that'd be due to increased usage and demand.
I'd assume you are referring to the minor change where the 3 underused stops (Keswick Road, Clay Lane and Wagon Lane) were removed, it may well have slightly speeded up journey times.

[Sh4318]

Pretty sure I said in brackets. Hence the "(becoming limited stop down the A45)"

I'm not saying it's a different route. Just that it was a service change, the limited stop section. Same applies to the X10.

This made journey times quicker between City and International. Not only that but also the increase in frequency.

You could get a train to International and back in the time it takes you to get to International on the X1 (even if you get the all stops service each way - excluding dwell times). Could do a couple of round trips to Cov and back on the train before you reach Pool Meadow on the X1

Stechford and Lea Hall are 2 trains per hour each way, Marston Green is 3

[Dom]

You could get a train to International and back in the time it takes you to get to International on the X1 (even if you get the all stops service each way - excluding dwell times). Could do a couple of round trips to Cov and back on the train before you reach Pool Meadow on the X1

Stechford and Lea Hall are 2 trains per hour each way, Marston Green is 3

But there isn't the demand at these stations. I've worked at Marston Green several times and apart from the morning and evening peak there is no requirement for more trains.

Im not saying that the bus is going to be quicker than the train because that's simply not going to happen, I'm saying NX are making the bus more appealing for said journeys, cheaper fares, quicker services than their predecessor, higher spec buses (all Platinum services).

[Brummie45]

The 17 used to go to Marston Green, I remember driving it, however no one ever went straight through to Birmingham City Centre

I also remember when the 900 was the 159. Timesaver routes were introduced that's when it changed to the 900.

[BK63 YWP]

Misquoting me again? I have moaned about Abellio deeming it acceptable to reduce the number of seats on the line when patronage is growing, I do not have an issue with people using the service!!
I don't accept that theory either, before the changes they had to lay on extra peaktime 98Es between Brum and the Q.E. to cope so it isn't exactly a new thing that that section is busy...

Wasn't the reduction in carriages due to cover the bromsgrove extension. Capicity will be restored with the introduction of the 730s