PD0001111/668 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LTD
Route: Birmingham to Kingshurst via Yardley
Service number: 59 (59)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 04 Jun 2017
PD0001111/625 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LTD
Route: Solihull to Damson Wood Circular via Rowood Drive
Service number: S1 (S1)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 04 Jun 2017
PD0001111/96 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LTD
Route: Erdington to Solihull via Chelmsley Wood
Service number: 966 (966)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 04 Jun 2017
PD0001111/603 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LTD
Route: Small Heath, Charles Road to Chelmsley Wood, Interchange via Yardley
Service number: 59C (59C)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 04 Jun 2017
PD0001111/369 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LTD
Route: Windy Arbor, Coleshill Heath Rd to Birmingham City Centre via Yardley
Service number: 59A (59A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 04 Jun 2017
PD0001111/669 Cancelled
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LTD
Route: Birmingham to Kingshurst via Castle Bromwich
Service number: 56 (56)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 04 Jun 2017
Wow nearly taken a year lol, or is it to do with the 97 funding for Resorts World ending about that time maybe??
Is the Bromford estate getting Platinum? That will get all my old mates their jobs or the job centre in style.
Unless it's going to be reused, it'll be sad to see the 56 number disappearing again after an on and off usage for 66 years.
Im wondering if they will stick with the 71 & 71A between Solihull & C Wood & make the 72 brum via Bromford &Shard End estate to Solihull. (Would the latter work in bad traffic conditions). Should know by Mayday.
Do we know yet what's replacing the 966 and what route it's going to taking ?
Quote from: Brummie45 on April 13, 2017, 07:49:56 AM
Do we know yet what's replacing the 966 and what route it's going to taking ?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501797/
and
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501770/
Quote from: Tony on April 13, 2017, 08:12:50 AM
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501797/
and
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501770/
I wander what route the X12 will take into the City Centre? Will it go via Bromford as the 72 currently does?
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501782/
The 72 is also being cut to operate between Chelmsley Wood and Solihull only.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501779/
97A airport extensions, withdrawn then.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501801/
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501772/
71 is being cut to operate between Chelmsley Wood and Sutton Coldfield only.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501794/
55A appears to be being withdrawn then.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501789/
73 cut to operate between Solihull and Heartlands Hospital only.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501949/
X70 looks interesting.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501773/
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501788/
58 cut to operate between Yardley and Solihull only.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/501771/
66 will go to Sutton Coldfield rather than Kingstanding.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/browse/results/?fields%5Bstatus%5D=&fields%5BacceptedDate%5D=2017-4-13&fields%5BtrafficAreas%5D%5B0%5D=D&security=783e5917ecd9513309f434fc2d8ee6c1-fac9b1a1c6745211587a2bff11e49e84
Just wondering will these new 'x' routes be operated by new or current platinum buses
Quote from: Jack6101 on April 13, 2017, 09:06:05 AM
Just wondering will these new 'x' routes be operated by new or current platinum buses
X70 is Trident
X12 AG Platinums
Is that all the changes or are you expecting more to come ?
Quote from: Tony on April 13, 2017, 09:33:01 AM
X70 is Trident
X12 AG Platinums
Do you know were the AG E200 MMC will be used?
Quote from: 2206 on April 13, 2017, 09:38:07 AM
Do you know were the AG E200 MMC will be used?
58
Quote from: Tony on April 13, 2017, 10:35:03 AM
58
Thanks, most appreciated. Will the 71 leave, or stay at AG?
Quote from: 2206 on April 13, 2017, 09:38:07 AM
Do you know were the AG E200 MMC will be used?
Maybe the 96?
Could this mean that:
66 City-Erdington only
60E City-Swan to run with current 60 service
Quote from: Steve3229vp on April 13, 2017, 10:50:18 AM
Could this mean that:
66 City-Erdington only
60E City-Swan to run with current 60 service
66 will be,
City Centre - Sutton Coldfield.
Quote from: Gareth on April 13, 2017, 10:43:18 AM
Maybe the 96?
I wonder if the 96 will still replace the 66 between Kingstanding and Erdington what was mentioned in the consultation . If so I imagine we will run it. So we might not have all of the changes yet
Quote from: 2206 on April 13, 2017, 10:51:35 AM
66 will be,
City Centre - Sutton Coldfield.
15A and 15C gone as well then
So the x72 had an element of truth as the x 12 not read it all yet
If Hodge Hill got a limited stop service I would actually start using the bus again, but I doubt would stop at Ventor Ave.
Have more mmc platinums been ordered then? When they due?
Monkeyjoe, this must be a dream come true for you, no? Platinums on this new X12. And also Platinums on the 94 on Sundays. I'm sure you'll find something to complain about though.
Quote from: MW on April 13, 2017, 04:37:51 PM
Monkeyjoe, this must be a dream come true for you, no? Platinums on this new X12. And also Platinums on the 94 on Sundays. I'm sure you'll find something to complain about though.
I don't complain I make observations, resource been thrown at the ex Lea Hall patch finally I'm pleased.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on April 13, 2017, 04:36:16 PM
Have more mmc platinums been ordered then? When they due?
There are already 10 at AG for the X12
I'm wondering if this x12 will go via shard end after the Bromford to pick up the 55a bit but how that will be express is beyond me unless it might use the heartlands between wash wood heath and nechells
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 13, 2017, 06:14:24 PM
I'm wondering if this x12 will go via shard end after the Bromford to pick up the 55a bit but how that will be express is beyond me unless it might use the heartlands between wash wood heath and nechells
We're all just going to have to wait for the official publicity to be released, as all anyone can do at present is just speculate.
i'm well aware of that, however creates conversation on the forum.
My predictions for some of these changes are:
X12 from City running express to Drews Lane, then as 72 to Castle Bromwich, then as 966 to Solihull (this covers both 72 and 966 from Arran Way to Pine Square as both routes are virtually the same).
96 as route 66 from Kingstanding to Erdington, then as 966 to Castle Bromwich, then as 56 to York's Wood, then as 55A to Pine Square.
X70 from City, then EITHER express via route 70 but not serving Parkfield Estate (covered by X12), OR express via Star City, The Fort, Collector Road to Parkfield Drive then as route 70.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on April 13, 2017, 08:08:50 PM
My predictions for some of these changes are:
X12 from City running express to Drews Lane, then as 72 to Castle Bromwich, then as 966 to Solihull (this covers both 72 and 966 from Arran Way to Pine Square as both routes are virtually the same).
96 as route 66 from Kingstanding to Erdington, then as 966 to Castle Bromwich, then as 56 to York's Wood, then as 55A to Pine Square.
X70 from City, then EITHER express via route 70 but not serving Parkfield Estate (covered by X12), OR express via Star City, The Fort, Collector Road to Parkfield Drive then as route 70.
Not really sure that the 96 should/ would cover yorks wood no direct link to city which has been in place since ??
X70 do you think it was miss out the bulk of passengers i.e. Wash wood corridor unless it's a few limited peak hour journeys.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 13, 2017, 08:42:53 PM
Not really sure that the 96 should/ would cover yorks wood no direct link to city which has been in place since ??
X70 do you think it was miss out the bulk of passengers i.e. Wash wood corridor unless it's a few limited peak hour journeys.
Before the 70 and 73 interworked the 70 used 5 buses on the route, the new X70 would use 4 which is reduction of 20%, so would the passengers drop more than 20% or less than 20%, I think less
Interesting how do you know it would use 4 if we don't know the route yet?
I'm much more interested in speculation / insight and debating rather than knowing what bus appeared on what route lol.
Nice to see the 66 return to Sutton, will it run as far as Finchley road/kings road then follow the 5 route to Sutton or run the old 66A route via Boldmere
Quote from: Lukeee on April 14, 2017, 12:16:06 AM
Nice to see the 66 return to Sutton, will it run as far as Finchley road/kings road then follow the 5 route to Sutton or run the old 66A route via Boldmere
Via Boldmere.
The 96 will replace the Kingstanding to Erdington section on the 66.
Quote from: 2206 on April 14, 2017, 05:27:02 AM
Via Boldmere.
The 96 will replace the Kingstanding to Erdington section on the 66.
Thanks mate
Random thought if Bromford Rd was to get a bus to make X70 express using the from Hunters and then Heartlands parkway would NXWM have consulted residents by now? I can't see it happening, but if they were planning that.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 14, 2017, 01:44:40 PM
Random thought if Bromford Rd was to get a bus to make X70 express using the from Hunters and then Heartlands parkway would NXWM have consulted residents by now? I can't see it happening, but if they were planning that.
No residents were consulted about the, 98, 99 and X64 change.
The 59 has been cancelled without any replacement. It was suggested in the consultation that it would run from Yardley to Kingshurst only. Is this yet to be announced, or could it become a tendered service?
Quote from: Eric Shaw on April 14, 2017, 03:05:00 PM
The 59 has been cancelled without any replacement. It was suggested in the consultation that it would run from Yardley to Kingshurst only. Is this yet to be announced, or could it become a tendered service?
So are the 56 and S1.
Quote from: Eric Shaw on April 14, 2017, 03:05:00 PM
The 59 has been cancelled without any replacement. It was suggested in the consultation that it would run from Yardley to Kingshurst only. Is this yet to be announced, or could it become a tendered service?
There are probably some other changes which are not showing as registered yet. I doubt the 59 would be completely withdrawn without any replacement between Yardley and Kingshurst; certainly on the few occasions when I've used it there's always a fair few passengers.
Quote from: 2206 on April 14, 2017, 03:12:59 PM
So are the 56 and S1.
The 56 only operates evenings and Sundays, so whatever replaces the 59 will likely replace the 56 also.
As for the S1 I've never used it myself, but as it only operates in one direction, it will depend on what the loadings are like between Warwick Road and Damson Parkway, and what line of route the new X12 will take from Solihull.
As I already stated here, all will become clear once the official details are announced.
Has anyone got anymore updates?
Quote from: Jack D on April 16, 2017, 06:36:39 PM
Has anyone got anymore updates?
Clearly not, otherwise they would have been posted here already!
The Solihull travel office is to close on 28th April, according to a notice in the window.
The April route changes will see a reduction of pvr with the demise of the 99 and shortening of the 3
The 4th June changes will also apparently see savings, especially if the 59 is not replaced,
Is this a general attempt to improve profit margins?.
These changes will bring the end to a direct service from Solihull to Sutton Coldfield which has been operating for years and years. I remember the 166 that operated before the 71.
The time that journey takes I can get to from my house in Brum to flat in London. Let's hope if saving margins get some nice new buses to the area. Wonder if pb will take over 71
So if Solihull TS shuts, the nearest place is going to be Brum then?
Quote from: Westy on April 18, 2017, 09:41:01 PM
So if Solihull TS shuts, the nearest place is going to be Brum then?
If it shut the nearest would be Birmingham City Centre (10.2 miles away). Afterthat its Coventry City Centre, Pool Meadow (14.9 miles away).
Travel centres must be a dying thing anyway. No disrespect but the majority of the demographic who use them, will they still be around in 10 years time? With smartphones etc times are changing. NXBUS are starting to put plans in place to catch up and overtake other areas at last.
Would this be a good time to change the numbering so it makes more sense:-
ie 55 could be be the 95. (or 94 = 54)
70 back to the 90.
X12 not sure I get the sequencing logic but hopefully will become clear.
(Just thoughts not moaning??).
I dunno just a random thought whilst I procrastinate preparing a presentation lol.
Waiting for the Network Support changes weekly email see if any changes will be on it ?
PD0001111/731 Cancelled (Short notice)
WEST MIDLANDS TRAVEL LTD
Route: Erdington circular to Erdington circular via Sutton Coldfield
Service number: 15A, 15C (15A, 15C)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 04 Jun 2017
To be replaced by the 66 in Boldmere, the Penns Lane and Walmley is unlikely to be replaced.
Looks like there's more to come. There's still time for other operators to start registering services aswell.
I'm still waiting to see if X12 will either serve Smiths Wood or Yorkswood.
Re solhull bus office it is closing staff moving to other offices timetables from libary or on line &travel cards from newsagent or direct debit
Anyone know where the network support is?
When will we find out exact routes?
Service changes now on network West Midlands website.
Few other changes I see as well
94 more direct into Chelmsley Wood
X1 and X2 apparently "revised stopping" hopefully they're going to reduce the stops, make them more worthwhile "express" services
17 terminus loop change around the Radleys?
66 according to that document still running to Kingstanding
Quote from: Kevin on April 26, 2017, 06:16:36 PM
Few other changes I see as well
94 more direct into Chelmsley Wood
X1 and X2 apparently "revised stopping" hopefully they're going to reduce the stops, make them more worthwhile "express" services
17 terminus loop change around the Radleys?
66 according to that document still running to Kingstanding
The 66 says revised route to replace service 15A and 15C, which will mean to Sutton via Boldmere.
Hopefully not, the X1 and X2 stops work how they are in my opinion, quicker links for passengers to the City Centre, from Sheldon and Yardley without having to sit in the Small Heath traffic.
The 70 says via Smiths Wood as well?
The changes are especially brutal to passengers living in certain areas.
As timetables are not out yet, I'm really curious as to how much of an increase in frequency on main corridor routes that can be gained from cutting back longer and/or indirect bus routes.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 19, 2017, 06:24:33 AM
Travel centres must be a dying thing anyway. No disrespect but the majority of the demographic who use them, will they still be around in 10 years time? With smartphones etc times are changing. NXBUS are starting to put plans in place to catch up and overtake other areas at last.
Unquestionably yes. Me for one. I insist on having physical timetables and maps where possible.
Where's the link to these changes please?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on April 26, 2017, 06:50:26 PM
Where's the link to these changes please?
https://www.networkwestmidlands.com/media/1979/busservicechanges-issued-20170426.pdf
Quote from: Trident 4194 on April 26, 2017, 06:50:26 PM
Where's the link to these changes please?
Download the PDF at this link:
https://www.networkwestmidlands.com/ways-to-travel/bus/upcoming-bus-changes/
The service changes document just lists any registrations/variations made with the Office of the Traffic Commissioners, so doesn't really expand any further on what we know already.
94 not serving the schools my old school CTC and Grimshaw. Not sure I understand that, assuming will have school journeys to replace.
X70 curious what will make it express.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 26, 2017, 07:03:36 PM
94 not serving the schools my old school CTC and Grimshaw.
Bloody hell, I'd missed that one.
Combined with the loss of the 59 & 97A, It's fair to say i'm totally unimpressed with the latest
mucking about for the sake of it service alterations.
Well lets see what these 96 and the super duper X12 will have to offer. People must have asked for more direct routes etc
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 26, 2017, 07:31:27 PM
Well lets see what these 96 and the super duper X12 will have to offer. People must have asked for more direct routes etc
Might be to do with this: http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/news/survey-shows-sustained-satisfaction-levels-for-bus-passengers
"However satisfaction with actual journey time – once on the bus – continued its downward trend of the last few years, slipping from 86% in spring 2015 to 80% this year. "
"A negative finding is once again the time the bus takes to get from A to B – which is really about traffic congestion and only reinforces our commitment to making travelling on public transport a better experience."
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 26, 2017, 07:03:36 PM
94 not serving the schools my old school CTC and Grimshaw. Not sure I understand that, assuming will have school journeys to replace.
Not to worry claribels will still be serving cooks lane & chelmsley rd
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 26, 2017, 07:03:36 PM
X70 curious what will make it express.
It mentions on the document 'flexi' - so I am curious also. The X1 and X2 are 'flexi' routes, which is why sometimes they will use Coventry Road through Small Heath if Small Heath Highway is congested.
I'm also curious about what it states about the 70 - "Revised timetable; two journeys only" - I'm reading this as it will only operate two journeys a day?
Quote from: Steveminor on April 26, 2017, 07:49:21 PM
Not to worry claribels will still be serving cooks lane & chelmsley rd
Their is no way NXWM will miss out on the kids wanting to do Cooks Lane - Washwood Heath etc. Used to be packed when I did it as a kid was over 20 years ago but demographic of the school could have changed that much lol.
Does that mean that the X12 and X70 could use Washwood Heath Rd or Heartlands Parkway.
Looking at the changes does this mean that only 1 service will be going through Shard End being the 55 or will they maybye through there.
The occasional 70 journeys may be for Park Hall students at Coleshill have the 891 and Park Hall don't have a bus allocated to school route.
The only they could do that would be the bit between the old garage and the Saltey viaduct island. From memory in the rush hours the queues build so would be similar to the Cov rd scenarios. That would make sense in my view. Its a tight left turn onto the washwood heath rd though for a bus??
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 26, 2017, 08:26:48 PM
The only they could do that would be the bit between the old garage and the Saltey viaduct island. From memory in the rush hours the queues build so would be similar to the Cov rd scenarios. That would make sense in my view. Its a tight left turn onto the washwood heath rd though for a bus??
What are you suggesting? Sending a bus down Aston Church Road? Green Bus Presidents turn left from Aston Church Road onto the Washwood Heath Road on the 844 every day, so not to tight for a bus. It was 301, ex NXWM 4101 today. NX have diverted the 55/56/70/94 down there in the past as well.
Quote from: 2206 on April 26, 2017, 08:31:46 PM
What are you suggesting? Sending a bus down Aston Church Road? Green Bus Presidents turn left from Aston Church Road onto the Washwood Heath Road on the 844 every day, so not to tight for a bus. It was 301, ex NXWM 4101 today. NX have diverted the 55/56/70/94 down there in the past as well.
In that case that is what I am predicting they are going to do on the x bus then.
What is going through shard end alongside 55 then ????
Nothing hence 55 being re-routed.
We don't know the 96 x12 or 71 could be routed down there. I don't they will get rid of Morrisons - Shard end or I could be wrong.
If the 73 continued to stop at the Albert Street stop in City Centre it would help reduce some of the packed 17's during rush hour.Don't know why it was shunted to Old Square when it transfered from Acocks Green to Central.
Quote from: suavegarv on April 26, 2017, 10:38:08 PM
If the 73 continued to stop at the Albert Street stop in City Centre it would help reduce some of the packed 17's during rush hour.Don't know why it was shunted to Old Square when it transfered from Acocks Green to Central.
The 73 was moved to Old Square so it could interwork with the 70.
I bet all the through passengers from Castle Brom and Kingshurst to Solihull can't wait to have to start changing buses in Chelmsley Wood every day, that will really attract passengers. What's more any one way travellers who buy a single every day will now have to pay nearly double for the same journey. Wonderful progress.
Quote from: andy41 on April 26, 2017, 11:39:38 PM
I bet all the through passengers from Castle Brom and Kingshurst to Solihull can't wait to have to start changing buses in Chelmsley Wood every day, that will really attract passengers. What's more any one way travellers who buy a single every day will now have to pay nearly double for the same journey. Wonderful progress.
I commented pretty much as long the same lines about the splitting of the 99, the daysaver is the answer & passengers have all time in the world to wait around for connecting buses
Thing is, the way buses are, not everyone will benefit. Sometimes timetables synchronize perfect for people other times, its a case of waiting for a while. Although some routes change, it doesn't necessarily mean many people would be disadvantaged as I reckon that would have been taken into account when making the change.
Quote from: andy41 on April 26, 2017, 11:39:38 PM
I bet all the through passengers from Castle Brom and Kingshurst to Solihull can't wait to have to start changing buses in Chelmsley Wood every day, that will really attract passengers. What's more any one way travellers who buy a single every day will now have to pay nearly double for the same journey. Wonderful progress.
I guess they will have the x12 and more reliable 71/72, must be all the heavy traffic. I don't quite get with 70 71/72 being cut to help reliability. Why will the x12 fair any better and why is the 70/x70 still called as such and not changed back to 90/x90.
Having used the 72/94 from Birmingham to Smiths Wood to and from work for years, Washwood Heath Roads problem is the traffic lights at Drews Lane junction which causes the traffic to queue back up the hill to Aston Church Road and beyond towards Saltlley Gate.
Making the 70 the X70 and the 72 linking up with the 966 to form the X12 won't eradicate the delays. All it will do is make the X12 unreliable at peak times.
The use of Aston Church Road can actually not be any quicker. Claribels use it now and again in the rush hour.
Quote from: Winston on April 27, 2017, 12:33:13 AM
I commented pretty much as long the same lines about the splitting of the 99, the daysaver is the answer & passengers have all time in the world to wait around for connecting buses
This is exactly the sort of thing that puts passengers off bus travel for good Winston. A one bus journey costing £2.50 vs a 2 bus journey costing min £4. What do you suppose they will choose to do? NX's obsession with the Daysaver and a one fare policy is driving people away from buses, they need to be more imaginative with their ticketing. They seem to be realising this with things like the new £1.50 short hops but then they go and do something as fundamentally ill thought out as this.
It is actually this policy that prevents them realising what they are doing wrong when they carve the service up too. Because of the flat fare system and wide use of the travelcard andy daysaver, the ETM data is now useless for telling the commercial department where their passengers are actually travelling. The driver can hit any destination for the £2.50 fare and the travelcard and daysaver acknowledgement button don't give a destination. This means the data tells you nothing about people's journeys anymore and the only way they would know they have large numbers of through passengers would be through physical surveying, which of course is impractical on a network the size of theirs.
The consequence is bad decisions.
Quote from: andy41 on April 27, 2017, 10:10:04 AM
This is exactly the sort of thing that puts passengers off bus travel for good Winston. A one bus journey costing £2.50 vs a 2 bus journey costing min £4. What do you suppose they will choose to do? NX's obsession with the Daysaver and a one fare policy is driving people away from buses, they need to be more imaginative with their ticketing. They seem to be realising this with things like the new £1.50 short hops but then they go and do something as fundamentally ill thought out as this.
Totally agree. It's not just that, everyone is fighting time these days.... If you've got a network like the London Underground, where passengers can simply switch across lines with only having to wait for a few minutes for the connection, then fair enough. The spliting of lower frequency services will only discourage passengers having to switch, especially during peak times where services can be delayed due to taffic conditions and thus result in a long wait for the connectng service. Anyone with an alternative option, will use that instead.
The daysaver is all well & good to make saving for those that make regular return trips on split services, but not everyone does, some only go in one direction then come back via alternative means. For those people, they will be paying significantly more....
What NXWM need is a through fare ticket which would allow a connection between two bus services providing that the connection is made within a designated time.
Quote from: Brummie45 on April 27, 2017, 10:41:48 AM
What NXWM need is a through fare ticket which would allow a connection between two bus services providing that the connection is made within a designated time.
How many people make one single journey using two buses, but don't make either a return journey or a different journey later on?
Quote from: Tony on April 27, 2017, 10:47:33 AM
How many people make one single journey using two buses, but don't make either a return journey or a different journey later on?
People that work shifts that finish late & get a lift/taxi home instead, people on a nights out that get taxi's home etc
I don't see how NX can know who travels what/where/when & how often when it comes to cash payers. They only record the data where passengers get on, they don't know where they got off or where else the daysaver ticket has been used & how often, as the aren't scanned and the data recorded.
If daysaver tickets had a bar code on then that could be scanned for each journey it would also cutout fraud and provde comprehensive journey data.
Quote from: Tony on April 27, 2017, 10:47:33 AM
How many people make one single journey using two buses, but don't make either a return journey or a different journey later on?
Tony clearly your experience of how passengers travel and behave is substantial but I can assure you that in my experience there are a lot of these types of journey made.
And these changes will create that need further .
Quote from: Winston on April 27, 2017, 11:01:02 AM
People that work shifts that finish late & get a lift/taxi home instead, people on a nights out that get taxi's home etc
I don't see how NX can know who travels what/where/when & how often when it comes to cash payers. They only record the data where passengers get on, they don't know where they got off or where else the daysaver ticket has been used & how often, as the aren't scanned and the data recorded.
If daysaver tickets had a bar code on then that could be scanned for each journey it would also cutout fraud and provde comprehensive journey data.
Exactly my point Winston. Commercial are now fidgeting around in the dark.
There is noway NXWM can know where people get on and off buses just by the tickets issued. Only way they would know is by looking at the cctv
Just because someone buys a ticket doesn't tell them where they are getting off.
Quote from: Brummie45 on April 27, 2017, 11:28:18 AM
There is noway NXWM can know where people get on and off buses just by the tickets issued. Only way they would know is by looking at the cctv
Just because someone buys a ticket doesn't tell them where they are getting off.
And that is the reason why they have these consultations, as the raw ticketing data only tells half a story.
Getting back to topic, I noticed this morning that the PDF on the NWM now doesn't show the 4th June changes.
Quote from: Stu on April 27, 2017, 12:15:04 PM
And that is the reason why they have these consultations, as the raw ticketing data only tells half a story.
And if you notice, many of the proposed changes at consultation stage are implemented regardless.
Quote from: Winston on April 27, 2017, 12:34:13 PM
And if you notice, many of the proposed changes at consultation stage are implemented regardless.
Depends on the responses from passengers. If responses indicate that passengers approve the changes, then of course they'll get implemented.
For greater transparency, do you think that all passenger responses should be made available for view? Of course, without any personally identifiable information shown. That would give the public more confidence that their opinion matters.
Quote from: Stu on April 27, 2017, 12:44:00 PM
Depends on the responses from passengers. If responses indicate that passengers approve the changes, then of course they'll get implemented.
For greater transparency, do you think that all passenger responses should be made available for view? Of course, without any personally identifiable information shown. That would give the public more confidence that their opinion matters.
Stu - the point I was trying to make was, in how many instances have you seen the implemented service changes be any different from the consultation proposals? Regardless of of how many respondents and what the general consensus was
It would make interesting reading to see how many people respond & what the majorities views are. The responses must all have to be collated together already for NX to use when making a final decision.
Quote from: Winston on April 27, 2017, 01:26:31 PM
Stu - the point I was trying to make was, in how many instances have you seen the implemented service changes be any different from the consultation proposals? Regardless of of how many respondents and what the general consensus was
One recent one, regarding a change to the X51 route in Birmingham city centre:
http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/x51-consultation-changes-sunday-23rd-april-2017
Quote from: Stu on April 27, 2017, 12:15:04 PM
And that is the reason why they have these consultations, as the raw ticketing data only tells half a story.
Getting back to topic, I noticed this morning that the PDF on the NWM now doesn't show the 4th June changes.
It shows some of them if you go direct to the main website. The one emailed to me didn't.
Quote from: Stu on April 27, 2017, 03:12:56 PM
One recent one, regarding a change to the X51 route in Birmingham city centre:
http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/x51-consultation-changes-sunday-23rd-april-2017
That's the only one, I've ever seen, plus that one was asking the question of what passengers prefer. They're generally don't very often offer options.
Typically, at the major area reviews as per the East B'ham services changes, it is these are our proposals for comment to comment on and those are typically what get implemented.
Quote from: andy41 on April 27, 2017, 11:16:19 AM
Tony clearly your experience of how passengers travel and behave is substantial but I can assure you that in my experience there are a lot of these types of journey made.
And these changes will create that need further .
There are plenty of journies made needing two buses, but very few people who don't need another bus later on.
Quote from: Brummie45 on April 27, 2017, 07:35:48 AM
Having used the 72/94 from Birmingham to Smiths Wood to and from work for years, Washwood Heath Roads problem is the traffic lights at Drews Lane junction which causes the traffic to queue back up the hill to Aston Church Road and beyond towards Saltlley Gate.
Making the 70 the X70 and the 72 linking up with the 966 to form the X12 won't eradicate the delays. All it will do is make the X12 unreliable at peak times.
The use of Aston Church Road can actually not be any quicker. Claribels use it now and again in the rush hour.
They are not going along Aston Church Road. They are non-stop from City Centre to Bromford allowing them to use Heartlands Parkway as the normal route. If that is badly congested they will use the Aston Expressway and Tyburn Road
Quote from: Tony on April 27, 2017, 06:20:16 PM
They are not going along Aston Church Road. They are non-stop from City Centre to Bromford allowing them to use Heartlands Parkway as the normal route. If that is badly congested they will use the Aston Expressway and Tyburn Road
Will the X70 still serve the Fox and Goose
@Tony, or will it serve the Bromford Estate instead?
Quote from: Tony on April 27, 2017, 06:20:16 PM
They are not going along Aston Church Road. They are non-stop from City Centre to Bromford allowing them to use Heartlands Parkway as the normal route. If that is badly congested they will use the Aston Expressway and Tyburn Road
Wow that is impressive. What about Drews lane though?? If in Brum in my house might even be worth the walk down to the bottom of the road instead on using vendor avenue if I did decide to use a bus again.
Is the Solihull to airport bit going to be 24 hrs?
Be interesting to see how this works through. Before the NWM pdf, I was thinking 70 to operate via Drews Lane and Bromford, but if it's only occassional journies that seems less likely. I also think Kingshurst Way will need some direct service to City Centre, again I was thinking some combination of the old 92 / 93 routes.
My thoughts were:
X12 - direct via Heartlands Spine to Spitfire Island, then Clock Garage, Bradford Road, Chester Road to Toby Jug, then as current 966 to Solihull. Solihull to Chelmsley Wood (at least) to be 24 hr.
X70 - direct via Heartlands Spine to Bromford, then via Bromford Lane to Fox and Goose, then as per current 70
70 - as Current to Drews Lane, then via Current 72 to Hunters Moon, then as Current.
71 - re-routed from Clock Garage via existing 966 to Green Lane / Hurst Lane, then Hurst Lane North to existing route at Morrissons
96 - as 966 from Fort to Chelmsley Wood
I was thinking the x12 would serve the shard end yorks wood estate
I even commented that the x70 might use Bromford Rd instead of the estate to connect to hunters moon direct into town.
All very interesting stuff I wonder if will be getting leftlets next time visit my property in Brum. Still expecting 94 to have crap buses though lol
I work at BHX and presently walk from my house in Smiths Wood to Chelmsley Wood to get the 97A when I'm on earlies. Will be interesting for me now the 97A is finishing. Hopefully X12 will cover for the 97A during the night from Chelmsley Wood to BHX.
Timetables are now appearing on NWM website. X70 is already on there.
I do hope that there will be some frequency increases on the 55 and 94. As Washwood Heath Road has lost the 56, 70 and 72 as well as the Claribel 55. I hope to be proved wrong, but I'm anticipating standing room only by Saltley and full buses not being able to pick up passengers by Nechells.
Quote from: Brummie45 on April 27, 2017, 07:37:17 PM
Timetables are now appearing on NWM website. X70 is already on there.
NWM timetables say during the day,
X70 will be hourly to the City Centre. Half hourly between Coleshill and Chelmsley Wood.
70 will be reduced 2 journeys in both directions.
Saw that, so how will that fit in with the x12, must be on a real drive to encourage Bromford crew on the buses 10 mins into town??
7O is at Park Hall Academy school timings so obviously for Park Hall.
66 every 15 mins improvement
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 27, 2017, 08:09:51 PM
66 every 15 mins improvement
The 66 is currently every 15 minutes.
58 will be increased to every 20 minutes.
Route 60 every 8 minutes all the way to Cranes Park !
X1 every 20 minutes all the way to Coventry. No longer serves Birmingham Business Park.
Quote from: 2206 on April 27, 2017, 08:12:05 PM
The 66 is currently every 15 minutes.
58 will be increased to every 20 minutes.
I meant to erdington opps
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 27, 2017, 08:33:21 PM
I meant to erdington opps
Only to Star City. The same as it is now
arh missed that bit
Quote from: Brummie45 on April 27, 2017, 08:29:07 PM
X1 every 20 minutes all the way to Coventry. No longer serves Birmingham Business Park.
X2 will also become every 20 mins on the back of this.
Just noticed they advising a stop on Bromford drive Reynoldstown as Fort Shopping centre. I never knew you could walk from Bromford drive to the shopping centre under the motorway, seems a scary walk to me.
Also noticed the x70 will be doing a much longer route round c wood using berwick lane and taking in a hospital and taking in a hospital.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 27, 2017, 09:50:00 PM
Also noticed the x70 will be doing a much longer route round c wood using berwick lane and taking in a hospital and taking in a hospital.
The 97 will no longer be a 24 hour service as well. From the City Centre 01:10, then next bus is 04:04, from the 04/06/17.
Quote from: 2206 on April 27, 2017, 09:56:06 PM
The 97 will no longer be a 24 hour service as well. From the City Centre 01:10, then next bus is 04:04, from the 04/06/17.
That's sad news as well. Means an apprentice member of staff at my work who gets £3.50 per hour will now have to get taxis home instead of the 97.
Frequency decrease to the Airport but increase through Meriden? Necessary?
Is there likely to be spare Platinums at BC with the X1 and X2 decreases then?
I'm also surprised at the 97, at least keep the Chelmsley section as 24 hour service, given the other night services
Quote from: Adam 404 on April 27, 2017, 08:46:47 PM
X2 will also become every 20 mins on the back of this.
The X1 is every 30 minutes on Sunday now. So that every 10 minute frequency between Sheldon & Birmingham has gone
Quote from: Gareth on April 27, 2017, 10:18:32 PM
That's sad news as well. Means an apprentice member of staff at my work who gets £3.50 per hour will now have to get taxis home instead of the 97.
We don't know if the x12 might be 24 hr + the X1 is a regular 24 hr service now.
One last comment and I don't mean this disrespectfully especially as I grew up on the Bromford but with the new route how are people meant to sign on at the job center washwood heath unless they make them all go to c wood now. ( I can say that as took redundancy a couple of years ago and used to make me travel to c wood to sign on when w heath was closer)
A driver I know on the 966 rota told me that the X12 will not be 24 hour. Also he told me that the X12 and 58 will be on the same rota.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 27, 2017, 10:36:24 PM
We don't know if the x12 might be 24 hr + the X1 is a regular 24 hr service now.
They might well be 24hr, but they don't go to places the 97 does.
When I got on the 97A to go to work in the early hours, some days there was only two other people on it to BHX
I'm pretty sure they had a subsidy from the resorts world or the airport and it's all finished now hence the delay in all these changes.
Not being so familiar with the east side of the city - what route(s) will be replacing the withdrawn 59?
With the changes to the 58 and 59, looks like there will be a reduction in B7RLE requirements at BC.
Quote from: Mike K on April 28, 2017, 12:20:36 AM
Not being so familiar with the east side of the city - what route(s) will be replacing the withdrawn 59?
With the changes to the 58 and 59, looks like there will be a reduction in B7RLE requirements at BC.
I don't think there are any replacements for the 59.
The frequency for the 60 will increase from every 15 minutes to every 8 minutes. That requires extra buses, I guess that's where B7RLEs will probably go.
Quote from: Gareth on April 27, 2017, 07:48:46 PM
I do hope that there will be some frequency increases on the 55 and 94. As Washwood Heath Road has lost the 56, 70 and 72 as well as the Claribel 55. I hope to be proved wrong, but I'm anticipating standing room only by Saltley and full buses not being able to pick up passengers by Nechells.
What like 94 every 12 mins to C wood and 6 mins to Newport Rd or Fox & Goose for example?
Quote from: Mike K on April 28, 2017, 12:20:36 AM
Not being so familiar with the east side of the city - what route(s) will be replacing the withdrawn 59?
With the changes to the 58 and 59, looks like there will be a reduction in B7RLE requirements at BC.
There isn't going to be any direct replacement for the 59, however I'm presuming that any changes made to the 55 through Shard End and Kingshurst will compensate at that end.
However I will be curious to see if (and how) anything is diverted to cover the Lea Hall part of the route...
The 55 and 94 operate about a 4 minute frequency along Washwood Heath Road when added together so the 70 won't be missed.
Some buses run almost empty during the daytime on both routes so Washwood Heath will cope.
Quote from: Brummie45 on April 28, 2017, 09:18:06 AM
The 55 and 94 operate about a 4 minute frequency along Washwood Heath Road when added together so the 70 won't be missed.
Some buses run almost empty during the daytime on both routes so Washwood Heath will cope.
But what about evenings, Sundays, peak periods?
Including the April changes, there's 8-10 buses per hour during the day going from Washwood Heath and Nechells.
Details now published to NXWM site
http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/east-birmingham-service-changes-from-sunday-4th-june-2017
14 Rerouted between Tile Cross and Chelmsley Wood, no longer serving Marston Green
55 to run a single route around Shard End
71 no longer serving Kingshurst
Drews Lane no longer served at all
96 is Mon - Sat Daytime only...no service to Fort Shopping Park on Sundays
Lots of other tweaks as well
The above link mentions that the curtailed 72 will be run using Double Deckers. I'm guessing that some of the E200 MMCs will find a new home, because 50 of them for routes 37 & 58 & possible the 73 should it return to AG (which it probably will). Too many MMCs that.
Whether AG will gain a new vehicle type or just receive more B7TLs from elsewhere will be interesting.
Quote from: MW on April 28, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
The above link mentions that the curtailed 72 will be run using Double Deckers. I'm guessing that some of the E200 MMCs will find a new home, because 50 of them for routes 37 & 58 & possible the 73 should it return to AG (which it probably will). Too many MMCs that.
Whether AG will gain a new vehicle type or just receive more B7TLs from elsewhere will be interesting.
It said on the new timetable for the 71 that Acocks Green are still running it. A long way for driver changes if they are
Now the details are emerging, I suppose i'd better not say what I actually think of the changes. Well, not without getting chucked off the forum at least...
Good to see at least that they've got their act together and given fair notice this time, as opposed the few weeks we've been used to of late
Quote from: dave47549 (no longer NEL111P) on April 28, 2017, 05:28:45 PM
Now the details are emerging, I suppose i'd better not say what I actually think of the changes. Well, not without getting chucked off the forum at least...
Loads of cuts lol
Will be interesting with driver change over being at Chelmsley Wood I should think for the 71 with AG still operating it.
Will a driver do a 71 trip then change onto a 72 to get them to Solihull and vice versa.
Steve
Quote from: MW on April 28, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
The above link mentions that the curtailed 72 will be run using Double Deckers. I'm guessing that some of the E200 MMCs will find a new home, because 50 of them for routes 37 & 58 & possible the 73 should it return to AG (which it probably will). Too many MMCs that.
Whether AG will gain a new vehicle type or just receive more B7TLs from elsewhere will be interesting.
If AG have extra E200 MMC they could be put on the 1 rather than leaving AG, it gets some E200 MMC anyway, Monday to Friday.
I see that the new 58 will be rerouted in Olton and will now serve the rail station. I pondered on this myself a couple of years ago.
Kind of ironic, seeing as Lea Hall station will no longer have any direct bus service.
Bit disappointed by the reduction in frequency on the X1 and X2 (between city and Yardley/Sheldon), and am puzzled by the frequency increase between the airport and Coventry.
Still, to be fair, if the 60 can actually stay on time, in the mornings it can be just as quick as the X1/X2 between the Swan and Bordesley station, depending on how bad the congestion is on Small Heath Highway.
I've already had one complaint on my Facebook page, from someone who has been using the 97A for the last 2-3 years to get to their job at the airport for 4am.
I can appreciate that the network needed a bit of simplification, but these changes may have gone a little too far for some passengers.
Quote from: John on April 28, 2017, 05:13:40 PM
It said on the new timetable for the 71 that Acocks Green are still running it. A long way for driver changes if they are
In that case, they'll probably interwork in some shape or form.
How to destroy a network in 3 easy steps. Mr coates probably rubber stamped tgese changes before he left.
Quote from: MW on April 28, 2017, 07:01:49 PM
In that case, they'll probably interwork in some shape or form.
It would be hugely ironic if they interworked the 71 and 72 services, considering they were both split to 'improve reliability' :D
I can see Hodge Hill (Ventnor av) part having less buses now especially in the eves if they are cutting the 70 and 56 and just adding more 55s
Quote from: Steveminor on April 28, 2017, 07:12:25 PM
How to destroy a network in 3 easy steps. Mr coates probably rubber stamped tgese changes before he left.
Sounds like there could be opportunities for Claribel's to expand
Quote from: Stu on April 28, 2017, 07:14:43 PM
It would be hugely ironic if they interworked the 71 and 72 services, considering they were both split to 'improve reliability' :D
Yeah I know lol, but realistically, Chelmsley Wood is a trek from AG for drivers.
The current 72's do like two trips between Clock & City and then full to Solihull to change drivers. Something like that anyway.
Haven't got a clue on journey times on the 71/72 but I'd imagine something like two trips between Sutton & Chelmsley, then 72 back to Solihull.
Also, the first 37 will be extended to Birmingham Airport, according to the changes page, which is interesting.
It'll operate as a 37 from City to Solihull and then become an X12 in Solihull and passengers can remain on board. Presumably then spend the rest of the day on the X12, so it'll be a Platinum.
Quote from: MW on April 28, 2017, 07:40:52 PM
Yeah I know lol, but realistically, Chelmsley Wood is a trek from AG for drivers.
The current 72's do like two trips between Clock & City and then full to Solihull to change drivers. Something like that anyway.
Haven't got a clue on journey times on the 71/72 but I'd imagine something like two trips between Sutton & Chelmsley, then 72 back to Solihull.
Also, the first 37 will be extended to Birmingham Airport, according to the changes page, which is interesting.
It'll operate as a 37 from City to Solihull and then become an X12 in Solihull and passengers can remain on board. Presumably then spend the rest of the day on the X12, so it'll be a Platinum.
During the day there are no journeys between City Centre and Clock Garage only.
The NX website says double deckers will be used on the 72, double deckers can't get under the low bridge in Castle Vale on the 71.
The 72 has 3 afternoon journeys to the Clock & doesn't go through Castle Vale tha'ts the 71.
Quote from: broma1k on April 28, 2017, 07:57:37 PM
The 72 has 3 afternoon journeys to the Clock & doesn't go through Castle Vale tha'ts the 71.
3 afternoon peak journeys, so not during the day, as I said, so they don't do 2 72s from City Centre to Clock Garage then a 72 to Solihull.
I never said it does. What I was saying is if the 72 used double deckers, then it can't interwork with the 71 as the 71 goes under a low bridge in Castle Vale.
Quote from: Stu on April 28, 2017, 07:14:43 PM
It would be hugely ironic if they interworked the 71 and 72 services, considering they were both split to 'improve reliability' :D
How can they interwork when it states double decks on the 72
mmc's for the 94 & 72.
Quote from: Tony on April 28, 2017, 08:09:18 PM
How can they interwork when it states double decks on the 72
I know realistically they won't interwork, I was just trying to be amusing by stating it would be 'ironic' in response to MW's post.
Are AG really going to operate the 71 then?
Quote from: Stu on April 28, 2017, 06:47:37 PM
Kind of ironic, seeing as Lea Hall station will no longer have any direct bus service.
Bit disappointed by the reduction in frequency on the X1 and X2 (between city and Yardley/Sheldon), and am puzzled by the frequency increase between the airport and Coventry.
I've already had one complaint on my Facebook page, from someone who has been using the 97A for the last 2-3 years to get to their job at the airport for 4am.
I can appreciate that the network needed a bit of simplification, but these changes may have gone a little too far for some passengers.
It's just a joke - a very bad one. Someone with a common-sense bypass has scheduled City-Bromford in 10 mins (best of luck with that one), which of course will make the timetable for the of the X12 route to Solihull a 'make it up as you go along' situation.
As if that's not bad enough, replacing 4 buses an hour between Chelmsley & BHX with three and boasting that it's an improvement is just crass.
So to recap, here's the situation local to me:
14 - yet more hokey cokey at Marston Green. Rerouted to serve a school previously ignored (& one i'd have considered more seriously for my daughter if it hadn't)
17 - Improvement to route to the Tile Cross terminus, by reverting to the old route. One which will add to journey times & result in a 0 increase in pax.....
59 - The one which is really making my p*** boil. Removal of through journey options in both directions. Basically, sod you if you want to get to Shard End / Chester Arms in one direction, or you've at least one change to get to Yew Tree / Yardley / Hay Mills in the other.
71/72 - Curtailed at Chelmsley, so through destinations reduced then. (don't attempt a counter to this by citing reliability delays elsewhere, see X12 comments above) And the wonderful realisation now that should my daughter's school bus go AWOL (happened several times already so far since September), she's now no alternate direct bus home (a major selling point when choosing that school).
97A - retrograde removal of 24 hour service (two fingers to carless BHX staff, mostly on minimum wage) & removal of the BHX section, which was delivering pax useage, despite the ridiculous scheduling close to 966 services.
I wouldn't have minded so much if the mucking about had only affected a couple of routes. But to find all have been b*ggered up is beyond belief.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 27, 2017, 09:35:34 PM
Just noticed they advising a stop on Bromford drive Reynoldstown as Fort Shopping centre. I never knew you could walk from Bromford drive to the shopping centre under the motorway, seems a scary walk to me.
No you cannot as the train track also runs under the motorway so it would be suicidal
@monkeyjoe
I can't seem to find the x12 timetable anywhere??
Quote from: Squiz1971 on April 28, 2017, 08:22:58 PM
No you cannot as the train track also runs under the motorway so it would be suicidal @monkeyjoe
I did think that but on the x70 timetable it states the stop as Fort Shopping centre Reynolds something rd???
66 going through boldmere to sutton!!! Well at least they'll have historic figures for passenger numbers as didn't it used to do that before the sutton swaps went on.
@Tony whats your take on tgese changes
Quote from: dave47549 (no longer NEL111P) on April 28, 2017, 08:16:48 PM
It's just a joke - a very bad one. Someone with a common-sense bypass has scheduled City-Bromford in 10 mins (best of luck with that one), which of course will make the timetable for the of the X12 route to Solihull a 'make it up as you go along' situation.
As if that's not bad enough, replacing 4 buses an hour between Chelmsley & BHX with three and boasting that it's an improvement is just crass.
So to recap, here's the situation local to me:
14 - yet more hokey cokey at Marston Green. Rerouted to serve a school previously ignored (& one i'd have considered more seriously for my daughter if it hadn't)
17 - Improvement to route to the Tile Cross terminus, by reverting to the old route. One which will add to journey times & result in a 0 increase in pax.....
59 - The one which is really making my p*** boil. Removal of through journey options in both directions. Basically, sod you if you want to get to Shard End / Chester Arms in one direction, or you've at least one change to get to Yew Tree / Yardley / Hay Mills in the other.
71/72 - Curtailed at Chelmsley, so through destinations reduced then. (don't attempt a counter to this by citing reliability delays elsewhere, see X12 comments above) And the wonderful realisation now that should my daughter's school bus go AWOL (happened several times already so far since September), she's now no alternate direct bus home (a major selling point when choosing that school).
97A - retrograde removal of 24 hour service (two fingers to carless BHX staff, mostly on minimum wage) & removal of the BHX section, which was delivering pax useage, despite the ridiculous scheduling close to 966 services.
I wouldn't have minded so much if the mucking about had only affected a couple of routes. But to find all have been b*ggered up is beyond belief.
They will surely have school jouneys going to on 94 to CTC and Grimshaw ???
Quote from: Steveminor on April 28, 2017, 07:12:25 PM
How to destroy a network in 3 easy steps. Mr coates probably rubber stamped tgese changes before he left.
I haven't always agreed with you on much but am with you on this. Most bizarre and staggering network review I've seen in a long time. Appears to benefit absolutely nobody.
Quote from: andy41 on April 28, 2017, 10:37:09 PM
I haven't always agreed with you on much but am with you on this. Most bizarre and staggering network review I've seen in a long time. Appears to benefit absolutely nobody.
It appears to have cut the vehicle requirement for the East Brimingham services
Quote from: Winston on April 28, 2017, 10:41:04 PM
It appears to have cut the vehicle requirement for the East Brimingham services
Yes I should have mentioned the shareholders! I meant benefits absolutely no passengers! It may cut vehicle requirements indeed but in time footfall and revenue may move downwards in line.
The area is clearly suffering badly from having no depot to centre an operation at. The current network probably involves a lot of dead mileage from AG, BC and PB and coupled with congestion the sums haven't been adding up, but the draconian measures resulting appear to be a massive over reaction.
So that means no buses to the Genting on a weeked or after an event there...
That is really annoying
Quote from: andy41 on April 28, 2017, 10:51:22 PM
Yes I should have mentioned the shareholders! I meant benefits absolutely no passengers! It may cut vehicle requirements indeed but in time footfall and revenue may move downwards in line.
The area is clearly suffering badly from having no depot to centre an operation at. The current network probably involves a lot of dead mileage from AG, BC and PB and coupled with congestion the sums haven't been adding up, but the draconian measures resulting appear to be a massive over reaction.
As you say, long term I doubt it will even benefit the shareholders. It will be interesting to see how these cuts are received by the travelling public. They don't appear too popular from the comments on here, lots of through journies have been cut......
Quote from: Winston on April 28, 2017, 10:58:29 PM
As you say, long term I doubt it will even benefit the shareholders. It will be interesting to see how these cuts are received by the travelling public. They don't appear too popular from the comments on here, lots of through journies have been cut......
Indeed - this review looks to have gone down like a fart in a lift based on the reactions on here. It always surprises me how often changes are just reversals of changes made on previous reviews - the shortening of routes 72 and 73 being examples. I'm concerned for the South / South West review now. The umpteenth change for the X64 is a given, but I wonder what else is in the pipeline.
There is noway the X12 and X70 will make Bromford Lane from City Centre in 10 minutes especially in the rush hour. Both services will become unreliable. I'm amazed Warwickshire County Council have agreed to the changes in Coleshill.
Also the X12 will be the only bus route from Solihull to Castle Bromwich. There is currently three routes to Solihull (71,72,966).
Badly thought out in my opinion with airport staff suffering also.
Those working at DHL/JLR will need two buses to get home as some travel further than the 96 will go.
Kingshurst has gone from five routes (55,55A,56,59,71) to 1 route (55). Kingshurst loses its link to Castle Bromwich Morrisons.
Passengers on the 55 route (old 59) lose their link to Castle Bromwich Morrisons.
Seems like a money making exercise to me.
A terrible review tbh, seems very harsh. I think some of these changes will end up being reverted back after a few months.
Quote from: andy41 on April 28, 2017, 10:51:22 PM
Yes I should have mentioned the shareholders! I meant benefits absolutely no passengers! It may cut vehicle requirements indeed but in time footfall and revenue may move downwards in line.
The area is clearly suffering badly from having no depot to centre an operation at. The current network probably involves a lot of dead mileage from AG, BC and PB and coupled with congestion the sums haven't been adding up, but the draconian measures resulting appear to be a massive over reaction.
Someone agreeing with me finally.
I will defend NXBUS by saying they have probably lost their subsidies from the NEC or who ever it was.
Also they given it 11 mins in rush hour lol. You sit that long in the bromford lane roundabout queue sometimes. However the traffic in brum is nothing compared to Northolt .
I don't understand how Bromford crew will get to the job centre though. Write to Liam Byrne.
Quote from: Brummie45 on April 29, 2017, 12:53:08 AM
There is noway the X12 and X70 will make Bromford Lane from City Centre in 10 minutes especially in the rush hour. Both services will become unreliable. I'm amazed Warwickshire County Council have agreed to the changes in Coleshill.
I think since the train service became enhanced the 70 must be losing money. Maybe they are testing this to see if the long term tram plan will work.
Also the X12 will be the only bus route from Solihull to Castle Bromwich. There is currently three routes to Solihull (71,72,966).
Not needed.
Badly thought out in my opinion with airport staff suffering also.
Was always subsidised I reckon.
Those working at DHL/JLR will need two buses to get home as some travel further than the 96 will go.
Probably have special journeys
Kingshurst has gone from five routes (55,55A,56,59,71) to 1 route (55). Kingshurst loses its link to Castle Bromwich Morrisons.
Not needed, can walk from 55. Online etc habits are changing. I always thought that 59 was a failure but I got shot down when I said it.
Passengers on the 55 route (old 59) lose their link to Castle Bromwich Morrisons.
55 with an amazing silly loop, but you cant please everyone, claribels will pick up the rest.
Seems like a money making exercise to me.
I always said since lea hall shut you can see where the direction is going, but I got shot down. This proves me right to a fair degree. Will the ex lea hall patch see new buses now all these cuts have been made.
A terrible review tbh, seems very harsh. I think some of these changes will end up being reverted back after a few months.
Probably not, when ever I am in brum at weekends the 94s etc always seem empty. I think the years of neglect are showing, please the demographic of the area is changing people use cars. I don't think people in Hodge hill use buses anymore.
is the x70 a tester for the silly super tram line they are thinking of introducing?
All these cuts are happening at a crucial time for buses in Birmingham. We are supposed to be trying to attract people out of cars to reduce congestion, this in my opinion will lose bus passengers back to their cars.
We also have the new bus bill in place. I think this will make it almost inevitable that we will end up with franchising.
While I agree with some of the comments, I don't quite understand most of the negative comments about these changes.
The comments about JLR and airport staff needing more than one bus now is laughable. Awww diddums, what about all the other staff there that already have to catch two even three buses? What about people in literally every other job that has to change buses on their way to work?
The 59 was only ever a gamble, the route itself has no real historical base.
The airport links on the 97 were through funding, NX presumably had to chose whether to continue it out of their own pocket and, as much of a shame it is, they obviously decided against that.
Quote from: Mike K on April 29, 2017, 12:17:12 AMI'm concerned for the South / South West review now. The umpteenth change for the X64 is a given, but I wonder what else is in the pipeline.
So am I. I don't think it will be good...
Come on Claribels!!!!!!!! Time for strategic direction lol
Quote from: the trainbasher on April 28, 2017, 10:54:17 PM
So that means no buses to the Genting on a weeked or after an event there...
That is really annoying
Or you could just walk for 10 minutes to international station
Quote from: Chris on April 29, 2017, 10:07:09 AM
Or you could just walk for 10 minutes to international station
& catch a train
Quote from: Steveminor on April 29, 2017, 10:32:28 AM
& catch a train
Or a 10 minute walk though the NEC to the International Station and catch one of the, X1, X12, 91 or 75.
During the day whenever i've seen the 97A on the Airport section its either empty, or there are only a few passengers onboard.
At least the pensnett thread is quiet whilst you lot are whinging and crying about these changes
Use it or loose it
good attention this side at last lol. I never use them they smell lol .
Quote from: karl724223 on April 29, 2017, 11:27:16 AM
At least the pensnett thread is quiet whilst you lot are whinging and crying about these changes
Use it or loose it
The people commenting on this thread are the more reasoned and sensible forum members and not the ones who clog the Pensnett thread with utter garbage. It's an online forum so why not debate the merits or otherwise of changes to local bus services? Makes a pleasant change from people winding up youngsters and reading about how the 4H was 6 minutes late.
Back to the E B'ham network review...
I must say, I'm really enjoying reading these comments ;D. The thing that really stands out to me is that the X70 is hourly to Birmingham during the day?
Debate/discussion at last rather then a bit of observation.I'm happy lol.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 29, 2017, 12:31:31 PM
Debate/discussion at last rather then a bit of observation.I'm happy lol.
Exactly, not one stupid comment, no bickering etc Bliss!
Quote from: 2206 on April 29, 2017, 11:25:47 AM
Or a 10 minute walk though the NEC to the International Station and catch one of the, X1, X12, 91 or 75.
During the day whenever i've seen the 97A on the Airport section its either empty, or there are only a few passengers onboard.
Good luck getting home from an event via the 75 or 91....
Whenever I've boarded on that section, I've queued up with other people. It also attracts good custom at the Bickenhill industrial estates. More to the point, there's noticeable through traffic to & from the route west of Chelmsley Wood.
Quote from: karl724223
Use it or loose it
Used it, losing it. But thanks for the veneer attempt to excuse your employer's ineptitude.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 28, 2017, 08:35:10 PM
I did think that but on the x70 timetable it states the stop as Fort Shopping centre Reynolds something rd???
Its Reynoldstown Road
@monkeyjoe
Use it or lose it!!! But in tge majority of the cuts people used it & still lost it.
I'm sorry but for example 94 out of cooks kane & chelmsley rd, could you honestly say those buses weren't used.
Quote from: Steveminor on April 29, 2017, 02:23:02 PM
Use it or lose it!!! But in tge majority of the cuts people used it & still lost it.
I'm sorry but for example 94 out of cooks kane & chelmsley rd, could you honestly say those buses weren't used.
@Steveminor - are you aware of way that NX could know where passengers get off along a route / make multiple changes to get destinations / how many make the same return trips & how many make one way trips?
Other than conducting market research on board which is only 'sampling' or someone studying the CCTV and logging passenger movements, I don't see how they can.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 29, 2017, 09:38:34 AM
Come on Claribels!!!!!!!! Time for strategic direction lol
They've given up on the 55 anyway which in return has lowered frequency on the Ward End to City section of that corridor. 😕
It's a case of NXWM not having a clue on what they are doing. All the bus changes happening now are basically from the mess they made of the last bus review.
The changes they are making now will probably be messed with again in a few years when they realise what a mess they have made of these changes.
Quote from: Steveminor on April 29, 2017, 02:23:02 PM
Use it or lose it!!! But in tge majority of the cuts people used it & still lost it.
I'm sorry but for example 94 out of cooks kane & chelmsley rd, could you honestly say those buses weren't used.
71 is going that way so it still gets a service, granted not as frequent but in reality it's only a short way from higher frequency routes, and I doubt many of the people use it all the way to Brum on the 94 so they can in turn afford to make the 94 more direct
Quote from: Gareth on April 29, 2017, 02:31:36 PM
They've given up on the 55 anyway which in return has lowered frequency on the Ward End to City section of that corridor. 😕
Yeah I question the person from Claribels having a go at NX for ruining the area they themselves left in favour of carrying fresh air
Thats different though as when we left the 55 there was a service in place that passengers could use, so people weren't left without a frequent service.
The 94 change isn't too bad for passenhers monday to saturday daytime as we have a frequent service in place but what about evenings & sundays.
I can also tell you "because I have our figures which wont be as large as nx" but there are a lot of passengers who travel from chelmsley rd & cooks lane to various points on the 94 route.
But what about tge 71 passengers the other side of chelmsley that have lost their direct link. Ampm used to carry quite a few from kingshurst & castle vale to solihull.
There are a lot of changes tgat are not beneficial to the passengers & i fear that once mps get involved we will be heading inevitably towards franchising.
Quote from: Kevin on April 29, 2017, 02:52:26 PM
I doubt many of the people use it all the way to Brum on the 94 so they can in turn afford to make the 94 more direct
Yeah I question the person from Claribels having a go at NX for ruining the area they themselves left....
Why would anyone
want someone travelling throughout? Far preferable is to have multiple occupants of a seat, each travelling a small distance, as you generate more fare that way. Besides, anyone with any sense* wanting to reach Chelmsley Wood in a hurry & likes making connections catches the non-stop train to Marston Green (as little as 7 minutes from B'ham) for a connecting 'bus & complete the ordeal in as little as 15 minutes. Oh, silly me, I forgot they're naffing up 'bus connections from Marston AGAIN, aren't they?
It's nice that they're speeding up the 94 though. as it will soon be quicker to make most of my 'local' (up to three mile) trips by foot, rather than faffing about waiting for two separate services to materialise.
* Yes, I spotted the paradox as well
The CTC school kids use the 94 from Cooks Lane. When I was on the 94 rota at LH we used to have a bus run out of depot to take up 94 service from outside the CTC when school finished. A lot of people also got off the 94 at the top of Chelmsley Road.
Will Claribels stay on Cooks Lane/ Chelmsley Road or change their routing as well. ?
We have no plans to take our 94s off cooks lane
Does the 8 minute frequency for the 60 really need to cover entirety of its route?
The current 7/8 minute frequency for the 58/59/60 drops to 10 after Swan Centre with the 59 diverging from its route and then down to 15 after the 58 turning right into Gilbertstone Avenue from Coventry Road. This works well because that area doesn't really need that many buses especially that most people choose X1/X2 instead.
I was wondering what theoretical frequency the 60 could have for the section between City Centre and Swan Centre if a half of all buses were to be turned back at Swan Centre like they do on Sundays?
Quote from: :D on April 30, 2017, 02:14:12 PM
Does the 8 minute frequency for the 60 really need to cover entirety of its route?
The current 7/8 minute frequency for the 58/59/60 drops to 10 after Swan Centre with the 59 diverging from its route and then down to 15 after the 58 turning right into Gilbertstone Avenue from Coventry Road. This works well because that area doesn't really need that many buses especially that most people choose X1/X2 instead.
I was wondering what theoretical frequency the 60 could have for the section between City Centre and Swan Centre if a half of all buses were to be turned back at Swan Centre like they do on Sundays?
X1 and X2 are having some stops removed so probably accounts for that as well
Quote from: Kevin on April 30, 2017, 02:27:54 PM
X1 and X2 are having some stops removed so probably accounts for that as well
I did a quick search and I think they'll miss out 3 additional bus stops when travelling out of the city. Bus stop near Deakins Road, Swan Centre (next to the office, not shopping centre), and Clay Lane (the job centre) are skipped.
I'm not still sure if that justifies the 8 minute frequency.
If my calculations are any good, having half of the buses to terminate at Swan Centre could mean 7 minute frequency for the western section of the route.
Not much of a saving then.
My post on this subject on my WMBU Facebook page is breaking all records for 'reach' (for my page of course):
https://www.facebook.com/westmidlandsbususers/posts/1444580912269993
Certainly seems to be a very 'hot potato' for many people over this side of Birmingham!
Most common complaint seems to be having to catch two buses to get anywhere now, and there's a lot of the usual rubbish about taxis being cheaper, or switching to cars. But the general consensus is that a lot of passengers are going to be inconvenienced by, rather than benefit from, these changes.
I think one lesson to be learned from this, is that any future network reviews just be undertaken by TfWM/Network West Midlands, and be much better publicised so passengers can engage and take part. The feeling here is that NX Bus have gone ahead and made all these changes to benefit themselves, rather than the passengers. What about this so called 'bus alliance'? All partners (ie other operators) in the area should have been involved and consulted, as we're going to end up with a disjointed network where NX's 94 follows a new route, while Claribels continue to follow the existing one, as an example.
Sadly, I think a lot of these changes will end up being undone, or changed again, before the end of the year. Certainly we may see our new mayor facing some pressure early on in their new career.
Wonder how many people will get muddled up with the X1, x2, and I suppose the x12 is a combination of both of these services. Feel sorry for passengers who see an 'X' and think it will be a quick route to Solihull, not knowing they have to go through the airport first.
Interesting that NX like cutting routes In half essentially, and there was no reliability issues with the above services this time was there?
I've already had my say about the stupidity of forcing established through passengers into changing buses in such numbers as these alterations will. What I forgot to mention was the cynicism (which I have mentioned before) of creating double hits on concessionary claims for passengers making the same journey in 4 trips that they previously did in 2. When multiplied by the concessionary users in that area, this will cost TfWM a considerable amount through no action of their own, and in turn create extra revenue for NX against lower cost.
Whilst such details probably wouldn't be released, one of the reasons for such changes as these may be to do with the amount of money currently received for concession passers. I genuinely do not think NXWM are putting in these changes to try to get more money off fare payers, that argument doesnt make sense to me, but I do think it is aimed at getting more concession pass holders having to scan twice where currently they scan once. I don't know how much companies receive per pass (from 'people in the know' at work it does not seem very much at all) but it makes good business sense to increase the number of passes scanned as they are then doubling their revenue for the same journey. Perhaps if the councils actually paid bus companies a decent amount for these pass holders these changes wouldn't be needed.
There was a similar network review at First in Worcester over the last couple of years where former cross city routes were split up to terminate at the city only so two journeys became necessary. Whilst this was initially unpopular with passengers they soon adjusted to it and I'm pretty sure the extra concession passes that must be now scanned are greatly received by the finance department. With so must cost pressures on the industry, unfortunately things like this seem like the way of the future. I put the blame squarely at the door of the government and their lack of support and vision for the bus industry.
Quote from: andy41 on April 30, 2017, 08:55:47 PM
I've already had my say about the stupidity of forcing established through passengers into changing buses in such numbers as these alterations will. What I forgot to mention was the cynicism (which I have mentioned before) of creating double hits on concessionary claims for passengers making the same journey in 4 trips that they previously did in 2. When multiplied by the concessionary users in that area, this will cost TfWM a considerable amount through no action of their own, and in turn create extra revenue for NX against lower cost.
Further to my above post I don't think you can blame NXWM for trying to make more revenue from pass holders. Working in the industry I get infuriated by the misuse of passes and the payment for using them seems unsatisfactory to say the least!
@Tony may be able to confirm if im right on this, but NX are not payed per pass for the concessionary pass holders but simply agree a price with tfwm for the whole year. Therefore they will not gain by making pensioners catch 2 buses.
Quote from: Steveminor on May 01, 2017, 08:05:15 AM
@Tony may be able to confirm if im right on this, but NX are not payed per pass for the concessionary pass holders but simply agree a price with tfwm for the whole year. Therefore they will not gain by making pensioners catch 2 buses.
If that's the case then it's probably commercially sensitive information and I doubt he will be able to confirm it. Personally I thought local authorities ended those sorts of arrangements some years ago.
I'm loving all this debate. Keep it up.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on May 01, 2017, 09:52:56 AM
I'm loving all this debate. Keep it up.
I agree, its very grown up and sensible, compared to a lot of the childish or tedious stuff that gets posted elsewhere.
And its great that people are considering things from a passengers point of view, rather than an enthusiasts.
@Stu it's interesting that a large number of the comments on your FB page, point towards passengers losing through routes & having to change buses after the changes are implemented. Also they'll be paying more for being inconvenienced and previous through journeys will take longer. It suggest passengers aren't as willing to change buses as NX seem to think.....
Quote from: Winston on May 01, 2017, 11:39:33 AM
@Stu it's interesting that a large number of the comments on your FB page, point towards passengers losing through routes & having to change buses after the changes are implemented. Also they'll be paying more for being inconvenienced and previous through journeys will take longer. It suggest passengers aren't as willing to change buses as NX seem to think.....
Exactly, a lot of the changes that are taking place go far beyond the proposals that were initially suggested during the consultation last year.
I would be a hypocrite if I did not admit that there does need to be a radical shake up of the bus network across the whole region, but this must be done with full consultation with travelling passengers, so that wholesale changes benefit the passengers not just the bus operators.
I would be fascinated to read all the responses they received for last years consultation, so I could map them against the changes that are taking place. I've previously mentioned here that for full transparency, this should be the case.
Quote from: Winston on May 01, 2017, 11:39:33 AM
@Stu it's interesting that a large number of the comments on your FB page, point towards passengers losing through routes & having to change buses after the changes are implemented. Also they'll be paying more for being inconvenienced and previous through journeys will take longer. It suggest passengers aren't as willing to change buses as NX seem to think.....
I've just read them all. All the comments are exactly along the lines of what we were saying last week. The very journies we both commented on are exampled by some of the posters and the 'non existent' one way single fare payers are also on there noting that they will now have to pay two fares. Passengers will be lost with these changes, that is a guarantee. If Claribels have any scruples they will extend their 71's through Chelmsley into Kingshurst at least.
Quote from: Stu on May 01, 2017, 12:43:19 PM
Exactly, a lot of the changes that are taking place go far beyond the proposals that were initially suggested during the consultation last year.
I would be a hypocrite if I did not admit that there does need to be a radical shake up of the bus network across the whole region, but this must be done with full consultation with travelling passengers, so that wholesale changes benefit the passengers not just the bus operators.
I would be fascinated to read all the responses they received for last years consultation, so I could map them against the changes that are taking place. I've previously mentioned here that for full transparency, this should be the case.
If they ever want to encourage people to leave their cars at home and take the bus instead, the bus needs to be both frequent & convenient.
Growing passenger numbers by spliting through journies and making the same passengers take two buses instead of the previous one, is cheating......
You can use freedom of information act to gain certain types of information.
However data protection act will protect some information
Quote from: andy41 on May 01, 2017, 12:46:12 PM
I've just read them all. All the comments are exactly along the lines of what we were saying last week. The very journies we both commented on are exampled by some of the posters and the 'non existent' one way single fare payers are also on there noting that they will now have to pay two fares. Passengers will be lost with these changes, that is a guarantee. If Claribels have any scruples they will extend their 71's through Chelmsley into Kingshurst at least.
Totally agree on Claribel's extending their 71E to cover the current full route. The withdrawal of the NX 59 is also provoking quite a few negative comments.
There's also potential to re-instate the daytime 55's
I would propose that if Claribels are choosing to keep their 94 'as-is', they should at least renumber it to 94A.
And the suggestion regarding their 71E seems reasonable, at least by extending it to Kingshurst, and I'd propose they renumber it as 72A instead of 71E.
This would at least show their differentiation from the NX routes, and avoid any further confusion to passengers. What do you think
@Steveminor ?
Quote from: Stu on May 01, 2017, 01:44:57 PM
I would propose that if Claribels are choosing to keep their 94 'as-is', they should at least renumber it to 94A.
And the suggestion regarding their 71E seems reasonable, at least by extending it to Kingshurst, and I'd propose they renumber it as 72A instead of 71E.
This would at least show their differentiation from the NX routes, and avoid any further confusion to passengers. What do you think @Steveminor ?
Why don't Claribels merge there 71E and 94 as a 95 at a frequency of every 15 mins and include there peak-period 55 to and from Solihull as 93.
Quote from: andy41 on May 01, 2017, 12:46:12 PM
The very journies we both commented on are exampled by some of the posters and the 'non existent' one way single fare payers are also on there noting that they will now have to pay two fares. Passengers will be lost with these changes, that is a guarantee
But with that same logic passengers will also be gained, through other journey opportunities created. People who buy single tickets can't really be in any way indicative of mass travel on a particular route, because by nature of having to buy that single ticket they're unlikely to be doing that journey on a regular basis
I'm not entirely saying that these changes are completely warranted or necessary but at the same time I would point out that previous attempts at keeping a route because of public uproar have resulted in a "use it or lose it" ultimatum, and oh look, people haven't used it.
Quote from: Kevin on May 01, 2017, 02:01:59 PM
But with that same logic passengers will also be gained, through other journey opportunities created. People who buy single tickets can't really be in any way indicative of mass travel on a particular route, because by nature of having to buy that single ticket they're unlikely to be doing that journey on a regular basis
I'm not entirely saying that these changes are completely warranted or necessary but at the same time I would point out that previous attempts at keeping a route because of public uproar have resulted in a "use it or lose it" ultimatum, and oh look, people haven't used it.
I appreciate the perspective, but please explain what alternative journey opportunities are opened up in particular as a result of the 71/72/966/59 alterations? As I can't see any other than being able to travel beyond Erdington to Kingstanding, not a deal breaker in the East of Birmingham I would suggest.
Your assertion that people making one way journies don't do so regularly is quite wrong I'm afraid, many do it daily and that is precisely why they don't purchase weekly passes as it is not worth their while. In any case the basic premise of encouraging public transport is to make it as quick, efficient, cost effective and convenient as possible and these changes achieve the complete opposite all round.
In terms of use it or lose it, it doesn't apply here. Stand in Chelmsley Wood and watch the 71, 72 and 966 arrive and depart and note for yourself the number of passengers that don't alight in order to travel through. Either NX aren't aware of this due to poor data processing and gathering, or as is more likely they are so desperate to save vehicles and rationalise depot territories that they simply don't care about it.
http://northsolihullnews.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/overhaul-changes-take-effect-in-just.html
Not gone down to well on here. I'd be interested to see if the x12 will serve park field estate . Seems a bit drastic to have a daytime service of 1 bus an hour on that estate to the city. No links to fox and goose either can't see that going down well.
@monkeyjoe Wont the 96 and X70 serve Parkfield ?
X70 one bus per hour off peak. Just waiting to see what other routes will serve the area
I would imagine the extra buses that are freed up after the withdrawal of the 55A would be used to facilitate the increased PVR of the 55. My question is, after the withdrawal of the 56/9, is an increase on the 55, enough for the Kingshurst area ?
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on May 01, 2017, 04:44:30 PM
I would imagine the extra buses that are freed up after the withdrawal of the 55A would be used to facilitate the increased PVR of the 55. My question is, after the withdrawal of the 56/9, is an increase on the 55, enough for the Kingshurst area ?
My best guess is that people in Shard End & Kingshurst wishing to travel to the city centre are already using the 55 & 55A, rather than the 59, as it looks to be a quicker route, and is more frequent. I don't personally use the route myself, so I'm only guessing.
Any increase in passenger numbers will come from those who used the 59 to get to other places like Yardley for example, who will now have to use the 55 to Ward End and change onto an 11C.
I do use the 59 occasionally myself though (along with the 58 and 60), though usually only between Bordesley and Swan Island, if the X1/X2s have gone missing or are delayed. It is usually quite busy through Small Heath, however there are usually still plenty of passengers onboard who continue beyond South Yardley. Sometimes after work, if I need to go shopping in Yardley, it is nice to be able to choose from the 17, 59 or 73 to get me straight there, even if the journey takes a little longer. Although the most frequent, the 17 does suffer from large gaps in service and bunching, which more often than not means the bus is already crammed by the time it gets to Bordesley station. The 73 is usually less crowded.
I just hope that they continue to use double-decks on the 60 after 4th June, because I can already foresee these running in bunches, just like the 17 at present, and the single-decks on the 58 and 59 end up rammed if a 60 has been delayed.
Speaking as a resident of Kingshurst I find these changes illogical and pretty unhelpful.
Whilst I can see reason for withdrawal of the 59 based on low passenger usage (my experiences of 2 - 3 journies per week between Kingshurst & Castle Bromwich are of virtually empty buses), i cannot understand the reasoning behind changing the 71 route to go along the Chester Road and omit Kingshurst - how does this benefit anybody? These overall changes mean that the centre has now lost direct links to Solihull, Sutton Coldfield, Sheldon, Yardley and Castle Bromwich. This really isn't what i would call progress. How can this be justified?
The 55s being tge only buses tgrough kingshurst are going to be extremely busy. I can see that tge 59 wasnt crrying many but the 71 was. Very strange actions from nx.
I wonder how many buses they have saved with tgese changes
Another good point mentioned in one of the links which I agree with they still charge "extortionate prices". I agree with passengers having to make 2 bus journies instead of one could there not be fare reductions or am I living in my own little fantasy world again?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on May 01, 2017, 08:56:24 PM
Another good point mentioned in one of the links which I agree with they still charge "extortionate prices". I agree with passengers having to make 2 bus journies instead of one could there not be fare reductions or am I living in my own little fantasy world again?
If you remember I made this very point when we discussed the withdrawl of the 99 and was told that people could buy Daysavers etc.
However if they want to start the practice of making you have to use two buses for a journey instead of one, then they should do the decent thing and make a single ticket valid for an hour so you can change bus at no extra expense .
Can't see there being any fare reductions but I can see more people buying nbus now as a lot of people will have to catch Claribels 94 IGO 99 Discount 966 even our S16 on Friday will gain passengers with the alterations to the 58.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on May 01, 2017, 09:09:46 PM
If you remember I made this very point when we discussed the withdrawl of the 99 and was told that people could buy Daysavers etc.
However if they want to start the practice of making you have to use two buses for a journey instead of one, then they should do the decent thing and make a single ticket valid for an hour so you can change bus at no extra expense .
I also think that there should be some kind of ticket available if a connecting bus is needed for a journey. There are plenty of people who don't need a return journey for a number of reasons, so suddenly now having to be charged twice is unfair.
I don't think though that allowing customers to use their ticket for the second leg would work. The fare evaders will be using the same single ticket for months, just as they do with daysavers currently. I look forward to that sadly far off day when we go cashless like London. Daily and weekly capping, free next journey when using a connecting service etc.
Quote from: Gareth on May 01, 2017, 09:39:33 PM
I also think that there should be some kind of ticket available if a connecting bus is needed for a journey. There are plenty of people who don't need a return journey for a number of reasons, so suddenly now having to be charged twice is unfair.
I don't think though that allowing customers to use their ticket for the second leg would work. The fare evaders will be using the same single ticket for months, just as they do with daysavers currently. I look forward to that sadly far off day when we go cashless like London. Daily and weekly capping, free next journey when using a connecting service etc.
I wouldn't hold your breath while we still have a deregulated service. The infrastructure and back office that TfL provide is very expensive and we will probably never get the budgets here that they do, plus with so many self determining operators with their own technologies and systems you would probably need a regulated system to force the scheme on them and cover their costs to adopt it.
Quote from: Gareth on May 01, 2017, 09:39:33 PM
I look forward to that sadly far off day when we go cashless like London. Daily and weekly capping, free next journey when using a connecting service etc.
Sorry but I feel like cashless would be a backward step. Yes from a security point of view it would be good, but not everyone uses public transport regularly and so a smartcard would be of no use, plus everybody doesn't have a contactless bank card.
Cash has always been good enough, why change it. Am sure one day it will happen in London that the entire Oyster card system will fail, what happens then, presumably everybody would get free travel meaning lost revenue.
Quote from: Gareth on May 01, 2017, 09:39:33 PM
I also think that there should be some kind of ticket available if a connecting bus is needed for a journey. There are plenty of people who don't need a return journey for a number of reasons, so suddenly now having to be charged twice is unfair.
I am of the habit of going for a walk (anything up to 15 miles - not in a straight line obviously) & sometimes catching the 'bus home. I'm happy to complete the walk but £2.40's not bad. They can whistle though If they think they're getting a daysaver out of me for that.
Quote from: Gareth on May 01, 2017, 09:39:33 PM
I look forward to that sadly far off day when we go cashless like London.
Yay. Another excuse to let the bus go & walk instead.
Quote from: Stu on May 01, 2017, 01:44:57 PM
I would propose that if Claribels are choosing to keep their 94 'as-is', they should at least renumber it to 94A.
And the suggestion regarding their 71E seems reasonable, at least by extending it to Kingshurst, and I'd propose they renumber it as 72A instead of 71E.
This would at least show their differentiation from the NX routes, and avoid any further confusion to passengers. What do you think @Steveminor ?
If Claribels were to renumber their services they would fall foul of the publicity charge for every single bus stop affected, another ridiculous policy designed to disadvantage smaller operators.
Quote from: MK on May 01, 2017, 07:01:12 PM
Speaking as a resident of Kingshurst I find these changes illogical and pretty unhelpful.
Whilst I can see reason for withdrawal of the 59 based on low passenger usage (my experiences of 2 - 3 journies per week between Kingshurst & Castle Bromwich are of virtually empty buses), i cannot understand the reasoning behind changing the 71 route to go along the Chester Road and omit Kingshurst - how does this benefit anybody? These overall changes mean that the centre has now lost direct links to Solihull, Sutton Coldfield, Sheldon, Yardley and Castle Bromwich. This really isn't what i would call progress. How can this be justified?
The 71 will no doubt be getting moved to Perry Barr garage. When we see the final timetable it will probably be apparent that in order to operate it to its current 20 minute frequency they need a specific journey time between Sutton and Chelmsley in order to run it with the amount of available vehicles. When they worked it out on the current route it was probably over by a couple of minutes and missing Kingshurst is the economy required.
Same probably applies on the reroute of the 94.
Quote from: andy41 on May 02, 2017, 12:39:51 AM
If Claribels were to renumber their services they would fall foul of the publicity charge for every single bus stop affected, another ridiculous policy designed to disadvantage smaller operators.
Also changing route numbers for us would just add to an already confusing situation for the passengers if we keep our numbers the same people will have a little bit of stability at least.
I do think that nx should have taken things like this into account though & changed their numbers accordingly i.e their 94 should have become 94A
Quote from: Steveminor on May 02, 2017, 06:19:43 AM
Also changing route numbers for us would just add to an already confusing situation for the passengers if we keep our numbers the same people will have a little bit of stability at least.
I do think that nx should have taken things like this into account though & changed their numbers accordingly i.e their 94 should have become 94A
Haha, that made me laugh. Reminded me of back in the early 90s when it was reported in the press that WMT were considering legal action against smaller operators using their service numbers.
WMT back in those days used to do anything to protect their patch back in those days, especially under the old WH/LH era. I remember the 94 being made every 4 mins as a response once. with 94/94e's.
The 2 & 3 being made every 6 mins each with mini buses.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on May 02, 2017, 12:17:44 PM
WMT back in those days used to do anything to protect their patch back in those days, especially under the old WH/LH era. I remember the 94 being made every 4 mins as a response once. with 94/94e's.
The 2 & 3 being made every 6 mins each with mini buses.
NEW TIMETABLES ARE BEING POSTED:-
I see the freq from my old stop Ventnor to city in the evenings used to be every 15 mins to city will now be only every 30 mins and 20 mins on a sunday.
20 mins on the 55s during the day on a sunday, but still less buses overall. Well the passenger numbers having been declining drastically over the years, this just demonstrates it.
Improvements for Bromford 4 buses an hour into city however an inconsistent freq/timing pattern between the x12 & x70. Will be interesting to see how they are received.
No special journeys on 94 going to CTC, I'm sure local counsellors might get a few calls from angry parents etc.
Timetables now on NXWM website.
A better, more even service on late night 55/94. Now only a 30min gap between last and second from last 94 and the last 55 now being at midnight.
Like many others I am disappointed with some of the 4th June changes, however we have to accept that NXWM are running a commercial business and the changes will involve cost saving or improved running with today's overcrowded roads. As an example the revised 60 will be easier to operate than the 58/59/60 through Small Heath. It will now be much easier to turn a bus short to get it back on time.
I think a service could usefully be added from the City Centre to Lea Hall Station by one of the independents, although I would not like to suggest whether it went via Heartlands hospital, Yardley Green Road side, or The Swan and Coventry Road. Other correspondents have mentioned that the present 59 is not much used in the Kingshurst area. However others have said a lot of people use it visiting the Swan Centre, with which I agree from my own observations.
The 73 route has been criticised for not starting at the same stop as the 17 in the City Centre., but I have been travelling on this service from Priory Queensway for the past year , with my wife in a wheelchair and while
there have been very few passengers boarding there, there have often been a lot getting on by Digbeth, especially when the 17's have been held up..
I'm curious to see if any new buses will be brought in when these changes start.
Will the 72 go back to old DD buses??
Will the CTC parents start protests and letters to the school etc about the 94 changes.
Impressed for the investment in Bromford, but I am being serious when I say the area needs a link to the WH Job Centre (unless chelmsley services claims in the area now) etc.
No chance of Lea Hall being needed to be brought back into operation now lol.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on May 02, 2017, 08:01:39 PM
I'm curious to see if any new buses will be brought in when these changes start.
Will the 72 go back to old DD buses??
Will the CTC parents start protests and letters to the school etc about the 94 changes.
Impressed for the investment in Bromford, but I am being serious when I say the area needs a link to the WH Job Centre (unless chelmsley services claims in the area now) etc.
No chance of Lea Hall being needed to be brought back into operation now lol.
NX said the 72 will use double deckers. It wouldn't look good if it was downgraded to B7TL ALX400 and Gemini operation, with the B7TL ALX400 now over 15 years old.
Chelmsley Road and Cooks Lane plus the two schools, CTC and John Henry Newman will still be served by Claribels 94, with the approximate 12 minute frequency as well as the 71.
Quote from: 2206 on May 02, 2017, 08:07:44 PM
NX said the 72 will use double deckers.
Chelmsley Road and Cooks Lane plus the two schools, CTC and John Henry Newman will still be served by Claribels 94, with the approximate 12 minute frequency as well as the 71.
I know all of that, however my point is will the 72 be allocated "older" DD or will new ones be brought in.
In terms of the schools I don't think that parents that have invested in NX bus passes will be impressed, that is the point I was querying. I've been reading the comments they have been making in the local community face book pages etc. I bet those kids are a lot worse behaved than we used to be, I'm surprised they are not doing special journeys like they are with the 70, would seem to suggest the hassle serving the kids just doesn't stack up.
Anyway back to work tomorrow to battle with my buyers at Tesco so won't have time to pass comment anymore.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on May 02, 2017, 08:24:34 PM
I know all of that, however my point is will the 72 be allocated "older" DD or will new ones be brought in.
I don't know all the PVRs to be honest, but having an idea of the resources available at Acocks Green, I can only guess that the 72 will use a mixture of ALX400 and Gemini B7TLs, with the 1 going to full single-deck allocation.
If the 71 does move to PB do they have enough single deckers to cover it ? Also what type of vehicle will operate the 96 ?
Will there be some fleet relocation taking place ?
Quote from: Brummie45 on May 03, 2017, 04:14:44 PM
If the 71 does move to PB do they have enough single deckers to cover it ? Also what type of vehicle will operate the 96 ?
Will there be some fleet relocation taking place ?
.
It looks like it is coming, plenty of drivers talking about it yesterday. I've been trying to work out if we have enough OmniLinks. 2 will be freed up from the 15s withdrawal, but the 66 will probably need more than it has now as the route is longer to Sutton than now to Kingstanding. I do think we will need some more and I could see some of the Enviro200MMCs moving with the 71, as it seems Acocks Green may have too many even though they are gaining the 58
The 96 will have to be single decker as i guess it will still serve Station Road in Erdington.
Agreed AG will have to many E200s as the 58 might only be three or four bus requirement. 73 I suppose if operated again by AG could be E200 operated.
Another thing that will need to be done is branding removed off the E200s.
Quote from: John on May 03, 2017, 05:42:56 PM
.
It looks like it is coming, plenty of drivers talking about it yesterday. I've been trying to work out if we have enough OmniLinks. 2 will be freed up from the 15s withdrawal, but the 66 will probably need more than it has now as the route is longer to Sutton than now to Kingstanding. I do think we will need some more and I could see some of the Enviro200MMCs moving with the 71, as it seems Acocks Green may have too many even though they are gaining the 58
The 96 will have to be single decker as i guess it will still serve Station Road in Erdington.
I wander what'll happen to the B7RLE at BC with the 58 going to AG and 59 being withdrawn?
Maybe the 1 at AG could become completely E200 MMC then the Deckers could go onto the 72?
Just a thought (might be a stupid thought), could the 60 be single decker operated with DD being released for the 72.
I can't see the 1 being converted to single deck to be honest. The deckers get fairly packed at peak times in Moseley/Edgbaston.
I reckon AG will lose some MMC to PB personally.
I haven't sat down to try and work the numbers out yet but are AG downsizing in capacity overall?
The new 58 and 73 will probably use 5-6 buses between them. The 72 will have a lower PVR and the X12 will have 2-3 more than the 966 currently.
71 PVR is something like 12-13 as far as I remember.
Sounds like a decreased overall capticity unless some more work is gained from elsewhere. Maybe the 17 from BY?
Quote from: MW on May 03, 2017, 06:07:47 PM
I can't see the 1 being converted to single deck to be honest. The deckers get fairly packed at peak times in Moseley/Edgbaston.
I reckon AG will lose some MMC to PB personally.
I haven't sat down to try and work the numbers out yet but are AG downsizing in capacity overall?
The new 58 and 73 will probably use 5-6 buses between them. The 72 will have a lower PVR and the X12 will have 2-3 more than the 966 currently.
71 PVR is something like 12-13 as far as I remember.
Sounds like a decreased overall capticity unless some more work is gained from elsewhere. Maybe the 17 from BY?
There are quite a few E200 MMC on there everyday in the peaks. From what i've seen in the peaks the E200 MMC do seem to just about cope. If the 1 isn't converted to completely single decker operation to free up deckers for the 72 and the deckers came from elsewhere, I wander if AG could be getting a new vehicle type for the 72.
Quote from: MW on May 03, 2017, 06:07:47 PM
I can't see the 1 being converted to single deck to be honest. The deckers get fairly packed at peak times in Moseley/Edgbaston.
I reckon AG will lose some MMC to PB personally.
I haven't sat down to try and work the numbers out yet but are AG downsizing in capacity overall?
The new 58 and 73 will probably use 5-6 buses between them. The 72 will have a lower PVR and the X12 will have 2-3 more than the 966 currently.
71 PVR is something like 12-13 as far as I remember.
Sounds like a decreased overall capticity unless some more work is gained from elsewhere. Maybe the 17 from BY?
AG's PVR stays exactly the same
Quote from: MK on May 01, 2017, 07:01:12 PM
Speaking as a resident of Kingshurst I find these changes illogical and pretty unhelpful.
Whilst I can see reason for withdrawal of the 59 based on low passenger usage (my experiences of 2 - 3 journies per week between Kingshurst & Castle Bromwich are of virtually empty buses), i cannot understand the reasoning behind changing the 71 route to go along the Chester Road and omit Kingshurst - how does this benefit anybody? These overall changes mean that the centre has now lost direct links to Solihull, Sutton Coldfield, Sheldon, Yardley and Castle Bromwich. This really isn't what i would call progress. How can this be justified?
So as I suspected, the new timetable on the 71 indicates that Kingshurst just had to go due to the tightness of the workings.
They have kept the journey time at 55 minutes Chelmsley to Sutton and 53 minutes Sutton to Chelmsley, despite the omission. In my experience 71s rarely arrived at either end on time so they have taken the hit to pad it out. However, the real requirement to make an economy can be seen from the stand times.
The Sutton stand time goes down from 12 minutes to 6, with 6 being allowed at the Chelmsley end too. So you can see that to keep it in Kingshurst would have meant no recovery time atall at either end.
Anybody who knows the issues you can encounter at the Sutton end at any time of day will know that this timetable will soon fall apart.
Quote from: andy41 on May 03, 2017, 07:36:17 PM
So as I suspected, the new timetable on the 71 indicates that Kingshurst just had to go due to the tightness of the workings.
They have kept the journey time at 55 minutes Chelmsley to Sutton and 53 minutes Sutton to Chelmsley, despite the omission. In my experience 71s rarely arrived at either end on time so they have taken the hit to pad it out. However, the real requirement to make an economy can be seen from the stand times.
The Sutton stand time goes down from 12 minutes to 6, with 6 being allowed at the Chelmsley end too. So you can see that to keep it in Kingshurst would have meant no recovery time atall at either end.
Anybody who knows the issues you can encounter at the Sutton end at any time of day will know that this timetable will soon fall apart.
Interesting stuff is that similar with the 94 missing out Cooks lane, time recovery vs limited resource etc
I remember many many years ago the 93 from Birmingham to Kingshurst was every 12 minutes and the 94 to Arran Way was every 12 minutes.
The 55 terminated at Kingshurst Mountford I believe
After a major review in the area the 94 and 55 were extended to Pine Square and the 93 frequency was cut.
How times have changed with only the 55 going through Kingshurst from June 4th.
Quote from: Brummie45 on May 03, 2017, 08:11:10 PM
I remember many many years ago the 93 from Birmingham to Kingshurst was every 12 minutes and the 94 to Arran Way was every 12 minutes.
The 55 terminated at Kingshurst Mountford I believe
After a major review in the area the 94 and 55 were extended to Pine Square and the 93 frequency was cut.
How times have changed with only the 55 going through Kingshurst from June 4th.
And before that the 55 terminated in Shard End. The 160 (later 93) to Kingshurst was every 20 min. The 194 (later 94) was every 30 minutes and terminated at Arran Way. The 166 (later 71) was also only every 30 minutes. The 165 started at Lanchester Way and was also every 30 minutes. The 195 from Arran Way to City via Cooks Lane was every 30 minutes, and the 162 (City via Tyburn Road) was peak times only. The new services still look wonderful compared to that.
Quote from: Tony on May 03, 2017, 06:27:40 PM
AG's PVR stays exactly the same
Any chance if you could clarify if the 71 will continue to operate from AG garage?
As others have said, it seems a lot of dead mileage, however to be fair, there would be a fair bit of dead mileage if ran from any other garage really.
It looks like the 71 and 96 will interwork on Sunday evenings so I imagine it's PB bound
Quote from: Tony on May 03, 2017, 06:27:40 PM
AG's PVR stays exactly the same
Just worked it out (roughly). The current PVR for the 71, 72 & 966 is 30 (ish). From what I've seen of the new timetables, the total PVR for the 58, 72, 73 & X12 will be 30 (ish).
The current PVR for the current single deck routes (71 & 72) is 25 (ish). Let's say that the new 58 & 73 are single deck operated. The total PVR for the new 58 & 73 is 8 (ish). 25 minus 8 is 17. Let's round that number to 15, taking into account spares.
Surely AG will be losing around 15 E200 MMC in exchange for around 15 double decks? I know you probably cannot say yes, but can you confirm if I'm way of the mark? Or is it what others are suggesting and will the 1 become single deck. If this was the case, it'd mean a peak vehicle requirement of 28 (ish) for the 5, 31 & 72 out of 33 Crimson Geminis.
@Tony
There was also the 185 that operated from Lanchester Way alongside a 165. One went to Kings Heath and the other went to Cotteridge.
There was a 99 that ran from Lanchester Way to Bull Ring Bus Ststion via Lea Hall Station and Catell Road. 98 used to operate alongside the 99 but it turned down Chelmsley Road and continued to Marston Green from City Centre.
962 was a great route when operated by MS from Chelmsley Wood to Birmingham. The demise of the 962 was brought about when factories started shutting down on Tyburn Road. Also LH kept changing its route and renumbeted it to 993/994.
Not forgetting the 199 from Castle Vale to Acocks Green. MCW bus 2102 was a egular on the 199 with its different destination display.
With no through service from Kingshurst to Solihull which has caused some complaints from the public, how about a X71 running as the 71 from Sutton to Castle Bromwich, direct to Kingshust, Chelmsley then NON STOP to Marston Green, NON STOP to The Radleys/Sheldon Heath Road, then Limited Stop to Solihull....any thoughts ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on May 06, 2017, 09:44:34 AM
With no through service from Kingshurst to Solihull which has caused some complaints from the public, how about a X71 running as the 71 from Sutton to Castle Bromwich, direct to Kingshust, Chelmsley then NON STOP to Marston Green, NON STOP to The Radleys/Sheldon Heath Road, then Limited Stop to Solihull....any thoughts ?
Total non starter in my view.
Realistically, people are going to have to get used to catching more than one bus. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of area Daysaver at a reduced price is introduced, like they have done in Sandwell & Dudley.
Quote from: Stu on May 06, 2017, 12:35:37 PM
Realistically, people are going to have to get used to catching more than one bus. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of area Daysaver at a reduced price is introduced, like they have done in Sandwell & Dudley.
I agree with you, it would work even better if for example the 71 and 72 had adjacent bus stops in Chelmsley Wood.
I think the long bus route will become less common in the future.
According to the map the x12 won't do the exact current 72 from bromford to c wood , looks like it won't use Bradford Rd i.e. Missing out hurst lane north etc. Giving castle brom village new links to city and helping out where park field estate have lost out.
Interesting colour coded route map. I wonder if this will mean that the next incarnation of the 14 branding will be orange?
Nice shade of brown for the 73.
I'm no design artist but doesn't look like any clear logic applied as such.
Actually I take it back
58 will now serve Olton Station then, don't remember that one being in the proposals. Are NXWM hoping to drive more City Centre commuters onto the train now then, 58 cut to Yardley with a re-route to Olton Station, and Marston Green losing all buses to the city centre?
Quote from: V89MOA on May 08, 2017, 11:06:19 PM
58 will now serve Olton Station then, don't remember that one being in the proposals. Are NXWM hoping to drive more City Centre commuters onto the train now then, 58 cut to Yardley with a re-route to Olton Station, and Marston Green losing all buses to the city centre?
And Lea Hall station will have no bus service at all, once the 59 goes.
I'm sure nx pr team would say "lea hall station is served by the very frequent service 97 & frequent 72 only a short walk away"
Quote from: Stu on May 09, 2017, 07:20:43 AM
And Lea Hall station will have no bus service at all, once the 59 goes.
Still served by the 99.
Adding to the post about the X12, the map shows it as not operating down Buckingham Road. X12 will operate Windward Way past Smiths Wood Academy instead of Chester Road side of the school.
That colour coded map needs to make it out into the public domain, ie actually out on the buses so people see it. I saw a similar map on the WB 5 at the weekend showing the changes in the Smethwick/Bearwood area, granted a bit late but was good to see, anyone know if they were distributed on all the buses or did I just get lucky with that one?
There's no information on the buses yet about the changes. I use the 72,94,97A and 966 a lot to get to and from work at the airport.
Quote from: Steveminor on May 09, 2017, 09:02:37 AM
I'm sure nx pr team would say "lea hall station is served by the very frequent service 97 & frequent 72 only a short walk away"
True, the Meadway stops are about a five minute walk away, if you're fit and able.
Quote from: dave47549 (no longer NEL111P) on May 09, 2017, 10:27:35 AM
Still served by the 99.
The 99 doesn't stop at Lea Hall station. The nearest stop is Bembridge Road, which is a longer walk than to Meadway.
However my point is that multi-modal transport is supposed to be being encouraged, doesn't look that way when bus routes are being taken away from local rail stations.
But I do think that the routing of the 58 to serve Olton station is a good move.
Now I've had a chance to analyse things, I do think it would have been better to extend the 17 to Marston Green, doesn't look that far from the current terminus at Tile Cross. With the 14 being rerouted from Marston Green, it would have been an ideal option for those who travel into the city, but prefer to catch the bus, rather than the train.
Quote from: Stu on May 09, 2017, 07:10:26 PM
True, the Meadway stops are about a five minute walk away, if you're fit and able.
The 99 doesn't stop at Lea Hall station. The nearest stop is Bembridge Road, which is a longer walk than to Meadway.
However my point is that multi-modal transport is supposed to be being encouraged, doesn't look that way when bus routes are being taken away from local rail stations.
But I do think that the routing of the 58 to serve Olton station is a good move.
Now I've had a chance to analyse things, I do think it would have been better to extend the 17 to Marston Green, doesn't look that far from the current terminus at Tile Cross. With the 14 being rerouted from Marston Green, it would have been an ideal option for those who travel into the city, but prefer to catch the bus, rather than the train.
Many years ago the 17 did terminate at Marston Green Station early 00's IIRC
@Stu
I think they took the 17 away when an old lady got run over due to bus congestion, with the 14 serving the station too.
With the 73 being reshortned, will it transfer back to AG ?
Quote from: Stu on May 09, 2017, 07:10:26 PM
The 99 doesn't stop at Lea Hall station. The nearest stop is Bembridge Road, which is a longer walk than to Meadway.
The nearest
flag is further down Folliott Rd. However, the section between there & the Lea Village terminus is hail & ride. So, subject to parked cars, the access path is served as near as possible.
Quote from: Stu on May 09, 2017, 07:10:26 PM
Now I've had a chance to analyse things, I do think it would have been better to extend the 17 to Marston Green, doesn't look that far from the current terminus at Tile Cross. With the 14 being rerouted from Marston Green, it would have been an ideal option for those who travel into the city, but prefer to catch the bus, rather than the train.
Been there, done that (see my previous comments about the Marston Green hokey cokey), & I've route monitored my fair share of trips too. Centro/whatever have a downer on it.
Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on May 09, 2017, 10:25:02 PM
With the 73 being reshortned, will it transfer back to AG ?
The PVR of the 58, 72, 73 & X12 is the same PVR as the current 71, 72 & 966.
Tony has said that the PVR will remain the same at AG, so my guess is, yeah it's going back to AG. It might even interwork the 58, as I think the 73 timetable is quite tight.
X12 timetable with list of stops at the end for anyone not sure of exact route.
https://journeyplanner.networkwestmidlands.com/Timetables/Download/cen_33X12_A_H_y11/2/National%20Express%20West%20Midlands_X12/True
Havnt seen many comments about the X70.
Have heard it will use the Expressway and then along Tyburn Rd or bypass by Washwood Heath.
Anyone know any better than me? And if it does use the expressway will it stop along the Tyburn Rd? If it did it would provide passengers along there with a quicker alternative to the 67.
X70 will run non-stop to Bromford. Timetable below with list of stops at end of timetable.
https://journeyplanner.networkwestmidlands.com/Timetables/Download/cen_33X70_B_H_y11/2/National%20Express%20West%20Midlands_X70/True
Quote from: Brummie45 on May 12, 2017, 02:04:55 PM
X70 will run non-stop to Bromford. Timetable below with list of stops at end of timetable.
https://journeyplanner.networkwestmidlands.com/Timetables/Download/cen_33X70_B_H_y11/2/National%20Express%20West%20Midlands_X70/True
Every HOUR and City to Bromford in 11 mins! ::)
They must have moved Bromford Bridge then!
Referring to MW's post about AG allocations, does this mean the 71 is leaving AG on 4th June. I thought PB was short of room.
Quote from: Brummie45 on May 12, 2017, 02:04:55 PM
X70 will run non-stop to Bromford. Timetable below with list of stops at end of timetable.
https://journeyplanner.networkwestmidlands.com/Timetables/Download/cen_33X70_B_H_y11/2/National%20Express%20West%20Midlands_X70/True
It's also running right through to Chelmsley Wood on Sundays. I cannot remember the last time there was a service from Coleshill to Chelmsley Wood on a Sunday.
11 minutes is possible off peak times but definitely not in rush hour. You would need a good clear run though.
Why is it that the X12 is given 12 minutes to get from City to Bromford Drive (up to 20 minutes in peaks) and the X70 is given 11 minutes even in peaks?, this makes no sense and the X70 will have more timing issues than the X12 !
I've been told by a driver at PB that 66, 71 and 96 are going on same rota. Maybe Tony knows more.
Quote from: Tony on May 12, 2017, 03:56:49 PM
It's also running right through to Chelmsley Wood on Sundays. I cannot remember the last time there was a service from Coleshill to Chelmsley Wood on a Sunday.
Probably for good reason
Seriously nx will have trouble making that commercially viable. The budget would have better been spent keeping tge daytine frequency at every 30 mins.
The problem will be if they have to turn a X70 for any reason. It could technically leave a two hour gap. So I should think turning will be almost impossible.
Back in the day when the 590 ran 94,96 or 97 were pinched to keep service going. I was on 96 one day and was pulled to do a 590.
X70 last ditched attempt to get some margin into that corridor is the impression I'm getting
Im pretty sure X12 and X70 will use the Expressway from 3pm onwards as the Heathlands parkway is a nightmare after 3pm will take about an hour to get through the traffic.
Quote from: Jack D on May 12, 2017, 07:43:22 PM
Im pretty sure X12 and X70 will use the Expressway from 3pm onwards as the Heathlands parkway is a nightmare after 3pm will take about an hour to get through the traffic.
So they'll both have the same problems that the X1 and X2 face at peak times. In fact, I wonder if thats the reason for the X2 having a frequency reduction; same amount of buses being used but an increase in running time to compensate for the delays on Small Heath Highway.
As for the Coventry Road and the 60, with the withdrawal of the 59, and the revised 58 moving to Acocks Green, I am wondering now what will happen with the surplus Eclipse 2s at BC; I am hoping that the 60 won't be converted to single deck operation, even with the higher frequency. Certainly out of city at peaks, if a double-deck 60 goes missing, passengers are already piling onto and cramming the 58/59 if they arrive first, which has made for some uncomfortable journeys home that I have encountered.
Quote from: Jack D on May 12, 2017, 07:43:22 PM
Im pretty sure X12 and X70 will use the Expressway from 3pm onwards as the Heathlands parkway is a nightmare after 3pm will take about an hour to get through the traffic.
Heartlands Parkway (as far as Bromford Lane) isn't a nightmare unless anything has happened on the M6. I can see the Junction at Bromford Lane from my office and my colleagues from Amey can manually control the traffic lights to clear problems.
Just wandering how many buses BC will loose in total with the 58, 59, 73 going and the 70 being cut down.
The changes seem very unpopular on National Express West Midlands Facebook page too. Lots of comments about changing bus in Chelmsley, lack to services to Kingshurst and reduction in frequency in Bromford.
I'm very surprised there will be no bus linking the city with Marston Green, however presumably nxbus expect passenger are either using the train or will use it. I would have perhaps left the 14 as it was via Marston Green and then extended the 17 ever half hour to Chelmsley via the new 14 route.
Can imagine the X12 south of Chelmsley will be busy!
Quote from: sonic84 on May 13, 2017, 11:58:02 AM
The changes seem very unpopular on National Express West Midlands Facebook page too. Lots of comments about changing bus in Chelmsley, lack to services to Kingshurst and reduction in frequency in Bromford.
I'm very surprised there will be no bus linking the city with Marston Green, however presumably nxbus expect passenger are either using the train or will use it. I would have perhaps left the 14 as it was via Marston Green and then extended the 17 ever half hour to Chelmsley via the new 14 route.
Can imagine the X12 south of Chelmsley will be busy!
There is no frequency reduction in Bromford.
Its going from a every 30 minute 72, to a every 20 minute X12 and hourly X70. From 2 buses an hour to 4 buses an hour.
Why would you need a bus from the City Centre to Marston Green when there is a faster train service 7 days a week
Quote from: B.C Driver on May 13, 2017, 11:06:57 AM
Just wandering how many buses BC will loose in total with the 58, 59, 73 going and the 70 being cut down.
Personally, I reckon BC will gain something from PB. Maybe the 94?
Quote from: 2206 on May 13, 2017, 12:00:33 PM
There is no frequency reduction in Bromford.
Its going from a every 30 minute 72, to a every 20 minute X12 and hourly X70. From 2 buses an hour to 4 buses an hour.
The current 72 that passes through the Bromford estate is
Every 20 mins not every 30 mins so it is 3 buses an hour not 2. As that's only on a Sunday its every half hour and after 18:00 Mon-Sat, Plus at peak time 2 hours we have 4 buses through the estate albeit 1 is a 72E to Newport Road/Clock Garage
@2206. We gain 1 bus an hour that is all.
Will the X12 and X70 use all stops on the Bromford Estate or will they leave some out as the timetable isn't quite clear on all stops, well the X12 anyway??
Quote from: Squiz1971 on May 13, 2017, 01:31:31 PM
Will the X12 and X70 use all stops on the Bromford Estate or will they leave some out as the timetable isn't quite clear on all stops, well the X12 anyway??
The Network West Midlands website lists all the stops that the X12 will call at:
https://journeyplanner.networkwestmidlands.com/Timetables/cen_33X12_A_H_y11/2/Outbound/0
Quote from: MW on May 13, 2017, 01:21:03 PM
Personally, I reckon BC will gain something from PB. Maybe the 94?
@MW moving the x14 would be a nice easy swap- no driver training needed for new bus type??
Quote from: Brummie45 on May 13, 2017, 01:09:52 PM
Why would you need a bus from the City Centre to Marston Green when there is a faster train service 7 days a week
For some people, the bus is a much cheaper alternative to the train.
Quote from: Stu on May 13, 2017, 02:10:24 PM
For some people, the bus is a much cheaper alternative to the train.
Exactly otherwise the x1 wouldn't exist? 20 mins to Coventry compared with 1 hr 30? It's the intermediate stops which gets customers
Quote from: Stu on May 13, 2017, 01:49:07 PM
The Network West Midlands website lists all the stops that the X12 will call at:
https://journeyplanner.networkwestmidlands.com/Timetables/cen_33X12_A_H_y11/2/Outbound/0
Cheers
@Stu the timetable I looked at from this thread wasn't as detailed as this one is.
Quote from: Squiz1971 on May 13, 2017, 01:31:31 PM
The current 72 that passes through the Bromford estate is Every 20 mins not every 30 mins so it is 3 buses an hour not 2. As that's only on a Sunday its every half hour and after 18:00 Mon-Sat, Plus at peak time 2 hours we have 4 buses through the estate albeit 1 is a 72E to Newport Road/Clock Garage @2206. We gain 1 bus an hour that is all.
Will the X12 and X70 use all stops on the Bromford Estate or will they leave some out as the timetable isn't quite clear on all stops, well the X12 anyway??
Sorry yes thought it was every 20 minutes, checked the NX website and this says every 30 which is why I put that.
http://nxbus.co.uk/routes/west-midlands/B072/?timetable[day]=&
With the 71 and 96 moving to PB, anyone heard whether PB will lose any routes as a result of these changes, other than the 77 returning to Walsall?
BC are 6 buses down as a result of the 98/99/X64 changes, and will be losing the 58, 59 and 73, plus there will be reduced vehicle requirement on the 70/X70. The increases to the 60 will presumably take up some of the capacity freed up from the 58/9, but BC will still have a reduced vehicle requirement compared to what they had in April (at a guess I'd say of 10 to 12 buses including the 6 from the 99).
Unless garage capacities needed realigning there looks like scope for moving some work from PB to BC.
Quote from: Mike K on May 14, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
With the 71 and 96 moving to PB, anyone heard whether PB will lose any routes as a result of these changes, other than the 77 returning to Walsall?
BC are 6 buses down as a result of the 98/99/X64 changes, and will be losing the 58, 59 and 73, plus there will be reduced vehicle requirement on the 70/X70. The increases to the 60 will presumably take up some of the capacity freed up from the 58/9, but BC will still have a reduced vehicle requirement compared to what they had in April (at a guess I'd say of 10 to 12 buses including the 6 from the 99).
Unless garage capacities needed realigning there looks like scope for moving some work from PB to BC.
How many older Tridents without Adblue tanks are left at BC? Maybe this slight reduction in vehicle requirements is to ensure that all non compliant buses can leave.
Quote from: Mike K on May 14, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
With the 71 and 96 moving to PB, anyone heard whether PB will lose any routes as a result of these changes, other than the 77 returning to Walsall?
BC are 6 buses down as a result of the 98/99/X64 changes, and will be losing the 58, 59 and 73, plus there will be reduced vehicle requirement on the 70/X70. The increases to the 60 will presumably take up some of the capacity freed up from the 58/9, but BC will still have a reduced vehicle requirement compared to what they had in April (at a guess I'd say of 10 to 12 buses including the 6 from the 99).
Unless garage capacities needed realigning there looks like scope for moving some work from PB to BC.
No, we are only losing the 77
Quote from: Gareth on May 14, 2017, 01:36:39 PM
How many older Tridents without Adblue tanks are left at BC? Maybe this slight reduction in vehicle requirements is to ensure that all non compliant buses can leave.
There's 27 x Y-reg Tridents left at BC of which 7 had the Euro 4 engine upgrade & refurb. Therefore 20 non complaint Tridents left, with the new emission standards coming in to force on 28th May I believe.
Also, weren't the E200MMC's bought for the 71/72 routes as part of some quality partnership?
Quote from: Winston on May 14, 2017, 01:43:40 PM
Also, weren't the E200MMC's bought for the 71/72 routes as part of some quality partnership?
I've often wondered how that works as there have been a few instances of vehicles acquired amidst a fanfare of publicity around partnerships only for then to be reallocated shortly afterwards, and not just by NX.
Anyone know what the official reason the 94 is missing out the schools and sports centre, only speeds up the route by 2 mins and I doubt people asked for it. Wonder if it's because those kids behave so badly on the buses. I am curious.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on May 14, 2017, 02:16:48 PM
Anyone know what the official reason the 94 is missing out the schools and sports centre, only speeds up the route by 2 mins and I doubt people asked for it. Wonder if it's because those kids behave so badly on the buses. I am curious.
It may only be 2 mins, but that's 4 mins on a round trip. It depends how many vehicles they're trying to save. For instance, the 71 change saves no minutes on the journey, but gives the bus more chance to get to the end on time. This in turn has given them what they think is an opportunity to halve the turn round time at each end and fit all the work into less PVR ( although in the case of the 71 it will be a mistake in my opinion as they won't achieve it).
If they only want to allow 6 mins at each end on the 94 and previously it was more, then those 4 minutes are critical to the overall plan.
Quote from: andy41 on May 14, 2017, 01:52:25 PM
I've often wondered how that works as there have been a few instances of vehicles acquired amidst a fanfare of publicity around partnerships only for then to be reallocated shortly afterwards, and not just by NX.
*Cough* Arriva * Cough*
Quote from: Mike K on May 14, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
With the 71 and 96 moving to PB, anyone heard whether PB will lose any routes as a result of these changes, other than the 77 returning to Walsall?
Unless garage capacities needed realigning there looks like scope for moving some work from PB to BC.
Wouldn't be surprised if the 94 goes back to Central.
Quote from: markcf83 on May 14, 2017, 03:29:31 PM
Wouldn't be surprised if the 94 goes back to Central.
Its already been said Perry Barr are only losing the 77.
Have central ever run the 94?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on May 14, 2017, 03:37:32 PM
Have central ever run the 94?
No
Washwood Heath/Sutton Joint
Washwood Heath alone
Lea Hall
Perry Barr
since it was invented.
That's what I thought cheers.
I see on FB there is a public meeting in Kingshurst on 18th to try and stop the changes. Can't see it making any difference.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on May 14, 2017, 07:57:50 PM
I see on FB there is a public meeting in Kingshurst on 18th to try and stop the changes. Can't see it making any difference.
They're commercial services, so I can't see it making any difference.
If I wasn't in London I'd go just for the comedy factor.
Which fb group?
Stop changes to buses in East Birmingham. Its a public group with 161 members
Ok thanks
Nothing will stop these changes going through.
I read somewhere that someone said they were going to get their MP involved. Good luck with that as parliament has been dissolved.
The shortest notice period the tc will except is 21 days & this period has now expired, so the registrations will go ahead. I think my registration was just in tye nick of time.
I've noticed that Claribels have a journey starting at Lanchester Way and one terminating at Bacons End now according to your timetable on Network West Midlands.
I see Claribels are making friends on the chat group. Is the Kingshurst extension being funded then?
Quote from: Steveminor on May 14, 2017, 09:46:39 PM
The shortest notice period the tc will except is 21 days & this period has now expired, so the registrations will go ahead. I think my registration was just in tye nick of time.
I'm glad youve been able to extend the 71, I feared you might not be able to. I hope it works out. You will certainly have goodwill on your side around there and that is half the battle.
Quote from: andy41 on May 15, 2017, 06:58:39 PM
I'm glad youve been able to extend the 71, I feared you might not be able to. I hope it works out. You will certainly have goodwill on your side around there and that is half the battle.
Has literally everyone forgotten they abandoned the 55?
Quote from: Kevin on May 15, 2017, 07:00:38 PM
Has literally everyone forgotten they abandoned the 55?
No, but there's a difference between cancelling a service where there is still another operator and cancelling well used services and offering no alternative. Besides, it's a commercial decision on the part of both operators and they will have to live and die by their decisions won't they?
When I said I was pleased I was more pleased for the elderly and disabled passengers who will now avoid having to catch two buses just to retain their independence. If Claribels win at the same time then that's a bonus.
Quote from: andy41 on May 15, 2017, 07:07:35 PM
No, but there's a difference between cancelling a service where there is still another operator and cancelling well used services and offering no alternative. Besides, it's a commercial decision on the part of both operators and they will have to live and die by their decisions won't they?
Correct, and I neither blame nor credit them for what they did, it is as you say a commercial decision
But
I cannot see how people think Claribels can try to claim moral high ground and that passengers will see the "goodwill" when they themselves have cut services in the very same area
Well they seem to be making friend in the FB group. I guess it's the old David and Goliath comparison (if that makes sense). People will always support smaller player.
Noticed that 96 is now on some of the bus stop flags in castle Vale and Erdington
Quote from: Jack D on May 17, 2017, 10:30:03 PM
Noticed that 96 is now on some of the bus stop flags in castle Vale and Erdington
Also seen 66 on the flags in Boldmere
Flags on the Bromford estate now read X12 & X70 some read diamond 25/X12/X70, seen them on Chipperfield Road tonight on my way home. Will confuse some people tomorrow methinks
Quote from: Squiz1971 on May 18, 2017, 08:07:56 PM
Flags on the Bromford estate now read X12 & X70 some read diamond 25/X12/X70, seen them on Chipperfield Road tonight on my way home. Will confuse some people tomorrow methinks
The flags on the 58/59/59A have now been changed as well.
Just noticed a couple of changes to the service changes page on the NX website.
- In the evening a new 72A will continue to serve Berwicks Lane and Coleshill Road.
- At school times a new 94C service will run between Castle Bromwich, Smiths Wood, Cooks Lane and Chelmsley Road.
http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/east-birmingham-service-changes-from-sunday-4th-june-2017
59 bus stops not changed in Shard End
Quote from: Jack D on May 19, 2017, 05:50:18 PM
59 bus stops not changed in Shard End
They are in Yardley.
Goes to show it probably is graduates that planned all these changes. ( that's what's been said on fb) so it must be true lol.
Glad they are responding but does show a clear lack of understanding of the needs of the local area in my humble view.
Will 94C be a timetabled route with the flags saying 94C too ??
Quote from: Jack D on May 19, 2017, 07:54:53 PM
Will 94C be a timetabled route with the flags saying 94C too ??
I doubt the flags will say 94C, the flags don't have school routes on them and this route will be a school route. It would probably only be a journey, or two in each direction at school times as well.
Quote from: Jack D on May 19, 2017, 05:50:18 PM
59 bus stops not changed in Shard End
Still two weeks to go, they'll all be done by then.
Quote from: Stu on May 19, 2017, 08:06:49 PM
Still two weeks to go, they'll all be done by then.
You would hope so, some of the flags in Sandwell weren't changed until after the changes had taken place
I have a stupid question what time will the last 97A be on the 3rd/4th June ? I'm asking this as I work at BHX.
Quote from: Brummie45 on May 20, 2017, 09:27:31 AM
I have a stupid question what time will the last 97A be on the 3rd/4th June ? I'm asking this as I work at BHX.
The last Saturday journey is at 0006 departing City, or 0009 departing Resorts World.
Bus timetables changed on park field drive yet route 70 is still on the timetable .
Quote from: Jack D on May 25, 2017, 03:37:55 PM
Bus timetables changed on park field drive yet route 70 is still on the timetable .
70 will continue to serve Parkfield Drive, but is reduced to two journeys a day.
https://journeyplanner.networkwestmidlands.com/Timetables/cen_33070_B_H_y11/18/Outbound/0
Flags at Chelmsley Wood Interchange now updated with new routes. Timetables on some stops changed as well. Notices on bus stops about changes to routes.
Quote from: Stu on May 25, 2017, 06:58:24 PM
70 will continue to serve Parkfield Drive, but is reduced to two journeys a day.
https://journeyplanner.networkwestmidlands.com/Timetables/cen_33070_B_H_y11/18/Outbound/0
However it has the full 70 timetable on the bus stop. More than 10 journeys a day according to that timetable
Quote from: Jack D on May 26, 2017, 04:45:03 PM
However it has the full 70 timetable on the bus stop. More than 10 journeys a day according to that timetable
Hold your horses, the timetable put up at the stop is probably the revised MF timetable (http://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2017-timetables/May-Half-Term/B070_MayHalfTerm17.pdf) for next week (half term week). ;)::)
94C Timetable, operating between Ward End, The Fox and Goose and John Henry Newman.
http://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2017-timetables/4th-June/B094C_04Jun2017.pdf
Quote from: monkeyjoe on May 19, 2017, 05:57:28 PM
Goes to show it probably is graduates that planned all these changes. ( that's what's been said on fb) so it must be true lol.
Glad they are responding but does show a clear lack of understanding of the needs of the local area in my humble view.
Not probably,but definitely.....and non bus users too.
Quote from: 2206 on May 26, 2017, 05:31:08 PM
94C Timetable, operating between Ward End, The Fox and Goose and John Henry Newman.
http://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2017-timetables/4th-June/B094C_04Jun2017.pdf
One bus to serve two schools (5k+ kids from the both) & ignoring pax from the wood. They've also ignored the fact both schools have well attended after-school events, so sod them eh?
After careful consideration, I've realised I cannot summon enough contempt for the ####s responsible for this 'review'.
- Oh, and one of the 889's went snafu again this afternoon. That's reassuring for after half term....
One bus won't be enough, CTC on its own needs two buses at least. By the time bus gets to CTC it will be struggling to pick them up after serving JHN. Each school needs its own bus tbh.
Claribels gain I guess.
The Gemini at PB on the 94 today have a leaflet about the East Birmingham Changes attached to a handlebar near the wheelchair/buggy area.
2126 on the 98 also has a couple of leaflets about the East Birmingham Changes on board and passengers can ask the driver for one of they want.
Quote from: 2206 on May 27, 2017, 05:30:36 PM
The Gemini at PB on the 94 today have a leaflet about the East Birmingham Changes attached to a handlebar near the wheelchair/buggy area.
2126 on the 98 also has a couple of leaflets about the East Birmingham Changes on board and passengers can ask the driver for one of they want.
I'm back for the weekend, in Hodge Hill and nothing posted through my door.
The other point about the schools, 71 &72 used to packed from the schools kids going to Sheldon and other areas as such. What about them?
They have counsellors John Cotton writing to some Paul Thomas bloke trying to stop the changes, I doubt will make any difference. The letter is on the fb action group.
IGo are extending their 99 service to Hurst Lane/ Chester Road to cover the loss of the 59 between Lea Village and Castle Bromwich. It will be extended along Leaford Road, Packington Avenue and Hurst Lane. However it will not serve Yorkswood.
Quote from: dave47549 (no longer NEL111P) on May 26, 2017, 05:53:24 PM
One bus to serve two schools (5k+ kids from the both) & ignoring pax from the wood. They've also ignored the fact both schools have well attended after-school events, so sod them eh?
After careful consideration, I've realised I cannot summon enough contempt for the ####s responsible for this 'review'.
- Oh, and one of the 889's went snafu again this afternoon. That's reassuring for after half term....
I noticed on FB asking someone asking if the 889 was safe and the comment was something like "for now". I know i went to school over 20 years ago but the demographic couldn't have changed that much. What about all the kids that travel to and from those schools to the Sheldon as such like.
Quote from: dave47549 (no longer NEL111P) on May 26, 2017, 05:53:24 PM
One bus to serve two schools (5k+ kids from the both) & ignoring pax from the wood. They've also ignored the fact both schools have well attended after-school events, so sod them eh?
After careful consideration, I've realised I cannot summon enough contempt for the ####s responsible for this 'review'.
- Oh, and one of the 889's went snafu again this afternoon. That's reassuring for after half term....
The 71 runs from Chelmsley Wood to the CTC and John Henry Newman so they haven't been forgotten. 71 can also pick up those pupils on the Chester Rd at Castle Bromwich.
Quote from: Brummie45 on May 29, 2017, 07:44:14 PM
The 71 runs from Chelmsley Wood to the CTC and John Henry Newman so they haven't been forgotten. 71 can also pick up those pupils on the Chester Rd at Castle Bromwich.
When i used to go to CTC their were bus loads of kids getting on the 71 to go Tile cross sheldon/ solihull direction, so they haven't announced any plans to cater for those kids yet.
Quote from: Brummie45 on May 29, 2017, 07:44:14 PM
The 71 runs from Chelmsley Wood to the CTC and John Henry Newman so they haven't been forgotten. 71 can also pick up those pupils on the Chester Rd at Castle Bromwich.
A single deck route, running every 20-25 minutes? Yes, that's perfectly adequate....
As I said, there's over 5000 kids between the two schools. 5k potential future life clients that NXWM have just aimed two fingers at.
Further, that's one parent who's now seriously considering eschewing the convenience of the 889 for an alternative Claribels service for the remainder of the school year. It might take longer, but at least the local operator gives a damn.
Quote from: dave47549 (no longer NEL111P) on May 29, 2017, 10:44:51 PM
A single deck route, running every 20-25 minutes? Yes, that's perfectly adequate....
As I said, there's over 5000 kids between the two schools. 5k potential future life clients that NXWM have just aimed two fingers at.
Further, that's one parent who's now seriously considering eschewing the convenience of the 889 for an alternative Claribels service for the remainder of the school year. It might take longer, but at least the local operator gives a damn.
I'm not saying it's adequate. I'm saying that a bus is available from Chelmsley Wood to both schools.
I personally don't see the logic behind taking the 94 away from Cooks Lane and Chelmsley Road but NX have their reasons for this.
I used to drive the 94 so only thing I can think of is congestion on Cooks Lane at school finishing times.
New timetables are now on the bus stops around Bromford/Washwood Heath area. I was under the impression the 70 would still running alongside the X70 as all the flags from Clock Garage to Saltley Gate only display up to the Fox & Goose 28 94 X12 & X70 . From the Fox onwards its 55 & 94 only no 70. The leaflet you get from the buses state the X70 will take over most 70 trips but how can it when it is only supposed to be every hour, apart from between 15:00 & 19:00 on the timetables, its every half hour unless I am missing something of course?
Quote from: Squiz1971 on June 02, 2017, 01:02:53 PM
New timetables are now on the bus stops around Bromford/Washwood Heath area. I was under the impression the 70 would still running alongside the X70 as all the flags from Clock Garage to Saltley Gate only display up to the Fox & Goose 28 94 X12 & X70 . From the Fox onwards its 55 & 94 only no 70. The leaflet you get from the buses state the X70 will take over most 70 trips but how can it when it is only supposed to be every hour, apart from between 15:00 & 19:00 on the timetables, its every half hour unless I am missing something of course?
The X70 is replacing the 70. The 70 will still have 1 trip a day in each direction, one AM trip from the City Centre to Chelmsley Wood and one PM trip from Park Hall School to the City Centre. The X70 will be hourly.
Though most of the flags just say 55 and 94, the new one at Clock Garage (Heathland Avenue) towards Chelmsley still says 70 and I think Saltley Gate towards the City Centre also says 70 for some reason.
All new timetables dated 4th June being put up in the shelters all have the 70 included in its current form. That will be very confusing.
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2017, 01:30:54 PM
All new timetables dated 4th June being put up in the shelters all have the 70 included in its current form. That will be very confusing.
That's why I put my earlier comment down as I saw on the Clock Garage stop inbound the timetable had the 28, 94 (NXWM & Claribels?
70, X12 & X70 times. People will be expecting the 70 at these times during the day and will be annoyed when they don't turn up.
@Gareth
Quote from: 2206 on June 02, 2017, 01:22:29 PM
The X70 is replacing the 70. The 70 will still have 1 trip a day in each direction, one AM trip from the City Centre to Chelmsley Wood and one PM trip from Park Hall School to the City Centre. The X70 will be hourly.
Though most of the flags just say 55 and 94, the new one at Clock Garage (Heathland Avenue) towards Chelmsley still says 70 and I think Saltley Gate towards the City Centre also says 70 for some reason.
That's because the 70 will still run past Saltley Gate. I know only once a day though in each direction.
http://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2017-timetables/4th-June/BX070_04Jun2017.pdf
Quote from: Brummie45 on June 03, 2017, 01:41:58 AM
That's because the 70 will still run past Saltley Gate. I know only once a day though in each direction.
http://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2017-timetables/4th-June/BX070_04Jun2017.pdf
Why is this one journey being kept? Surely if it's a school run then as per school buses it wouldn't be shown on the bus stops?
Quote from: Brummie45 on June 03, 2017, 01:41:58 AM
That's because the 70 will still run past Saltley Gate. I know only once a day though in each direction.
http://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2017-timetables/4th-June/BX070_04Jun2017.pdf
Quote from: Kevin on June 03, 2017, 07:05:30 AM
Why is this one journey being kept? Surely if it's a school run then as per school buses it wouldn't be shown on the bus stops?
Its not though, they've took 70 of every stop but 2, Saltley Gate towards the City Centre and Clock Garage towards Chelmsley Wood.
@Brummie45 Park Hall Acadamy, school journey.
@Kevin
Anyone know if the Platinums for X12/X70 will have the Next Stop announcments tomorrow?
X70 isn't going to be platinum s unless I've missed something
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 03, 2017, 10:18:46 PM
X70 isn't going to be platinum s unless I've missed something
Tony said it is going to be Trident operated.
NXWM posted on facebook that the X70 was going to be platinum, but they've removed it now, presumably it was a mistake.
@monkeyjoe
Will the announcements be on X12 tomorrow then?
On the X70 in Coleshill and Water Orton I noticed the Warwickshire County bus stops have been updated to show the new route number, kudos to them I didn't quite expect that considering some of the flags still have the 590 on
Seen a X70 at Chelmsley Wood while on the way home from work. It had 70 on the destination and was a platinum. Looks like Sunday's could be platinum buses like on the 94.
Do the kids go back tow after half term interesting to see how it all goes
The x70 buses do not display x70 but they display 70 anyone know why
Quote from: Jack D on June 05, 2017, 03:53:54 PM
The x70 buses do not display x70 but they display 70 anyone know why
Why? Because the blinds haven't been programmed. It really is poor show, especially on its second day in service. It was only one I saw today, the other two I spotted both had x70 showing.
Quote from: Gareth on June 05, 2017, 04:20:52 PM
Why? Because the blinds haven't been programmed. It really is poor show, especially on its second day in service. It was only one I saw today, the other two I spotted both had x70 showing.
4177 and 4449 are both still showing 70.
I see that the complaints and anger has made a news feature in the Birmingham mail. I've never known this much fuss before about changes. I think these graduates software changes might get amended lol.
Quote from: Gareth on June 05, 2017, 04:20:52 PM
Why? Because the blinds haven't been programmed. It really is poor show, especially on its second day in service. It was only one I saw today, the other two I spotted both had x70 showing.
I get that they can't change all the destination boxes in one go, but seriously for a route where it actually matter like this you'd think they'd at least make sure those few that do go out on it actually have been updated
The X1 I caught this morning stopped at Deakins Road, even though its not supposed to now. Picked up some waiting passengers too!
To be fair, the driver probably thought he had no choice, as the audio/visual announcements still said the next stop would be Deakins Road.
The bus was 6844, I noticed also that the sticker advertising contactless payments was missing off the side of the bus, as well as the card reader itself inside.
Quote from: Stu on June 05, 2017, 06:52:37 PM
The X1 I caught this morning stopped at Deakins Road, even though its not supposed to now. Picked up some waiting passengers too!
To be fair, the driver probably thought he had no choice, as the audio/visual announcements still said the next stop would be Deakins Road.
The bus was 6844, I noticed also that the sticker advertising contactless payments was missing off the side of the bus, as well as the card reader itself inside.
I somehow don't see them updating the announcements, as to date they haven't sorted the problem with the X51 announcing Booths Farm when it has never stopped therr
Quote from: Kevin on June 05, 2017, 07:02:09 PM
I somehow don't see them updating the announcements, as to date they haven't sorted the problem with the X51 announcing Booths Farm when it has never stopped therr
If they're going to miss out stops, then they should update the announcements. If the system announces "the next stop is Deakins Road" then passengers will rightly expect the bus to stop there.
It would also be a good opportunity to update the announcements so they actually match the bus stop names, for example 'Kathleen Road' instead of 'Forest Road' towards city.
I'm wondering how long it will be before 70 timetables are removed. Or at the very least replaced with one showing their 1 journey a day.
Quote from: 2206 on June 05, 2017, 05:24:11 PM
4177 and 4449 are both still showing 70.
So was 4166 which I saw on Chipperfield Road around 19:37
Quote from: Kevin on June 05, 2017, 06:41:32 PM
I get that they can't change all the destination boxes in one go, but seriously for a route where it actually matter like this you'd think they'd at least make sure those few that do go out on it actually have been updated
Be patient chaps - as per a post yesterday the X64 still shows Limited Stop on the front...
I'm sorry but there is no excuse the 70 and the x70 are two different routes and people are getting confused enough as it is. They have had weeks to sort this out pSSS poor in my view. People on FB are not happy either
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 05, 2017, 11:35:52 PM
......People on FB are not happy either
General statement of majority of people on facebook to be fair, always moaning about any change
Quote from: Kevin on June 05, 2017, 11:44:01 PM
General statement of majority of people on facebook to be fair, always moaning about any change
We're British, moaning is our greatest quality!
Quote from: Dom on June 06, 2017, 08:26:46 AM
We're British, moaning is our greatest quality!
Agreed, we love moaning.
The problem is everyone expects a door to door bus service. They need to realise buses are there to make money for the operator.
Fuel prices look set to go up as well with what's going on in the Gulf states.
BC 4614 94C displaying as 94E.
Moaning is just an inability to articulate greater expectations!
On that point I don't quite get the logic or removing Bromford residents links to the job centre ( not saying they all need it btw) or the direct links to the local Supermarkets ie Morrisons and Tesco. Surely that has got to be an indicator of lack of local knowledge surely?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 06, 2017, 06:14:27 PM
On that point I don't quite get the logic or removing Bromford residents links to the job centre ( not saying they all need it btw) or the direct links to the local Supermarkets ie Morrisons and Tesco. Surely that has got to be an indicator of lack of local knowledge surely?
They can always walk up Drews Lane and onto Washwood Heath Road. Takes 10-15 minutes tops from the last city bound stop on the X12/x70
Admittedly when I was growing used to walk from estate to hunter moon etc, but I just got get taking local links away which people must have been using to some degree.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 06, 2017, 06:14:27 PM
On that point I don't quite get the logic or removing Bromford residents links to the job centre ( not saying they all need it btw) or the direct links to the local Supermarkets ie Morrisons and Tesco. Surely that has got to be an indicator of lack of local knowledge surely?
What supermarkets? 72 out of city was fairly solid residential, all the local supermarkets are up by the Fox and Goose surely? Ergo my suggestion of a better version of the current 25
There is Tesco and Morrisons at Castle Bromwich. At Chelmsley Wood there is Asda
And the 11 will take you to Tesco, Aldi and Iceland at the Fox and Goose
Quote from: Kevin on June 06, 2017, 06:54:50 PM
What supermarkets? 72 out of city was fairly solid residential, all the local supermarkets are up by the Fox and Goose surely? Ergo my suggestion of a better version of the current 25
The 25 is a 1 bus route with the same driver every trip & before the changes it wasn't always busy so an extra bus may not be feasible as it only runs for 6 hours a day
@Keith . Though I could be wrong of course
Quote from: Gareth on June 06, 2017, 07:03:10 PM
And the 11 will take you to Tesco, Aldi and Iceland at the Fox and Goose
and a bigger Tesco than the one at Castle Bromwich as well.
All direct links to local shopping areas taken away by nxbus is the point I was making.
Is there an up to date list of garages and which routes they operate following the East Birmingham Service changes. Have any garages lost or gained routes since the change? Sorry if it's already been asked/answered. Thanks in advance.
Quote from: 966 on June 07, 2017, 06:26:22 PM
Is there an up to date list of garages and which routes they operate following the East Birmingham Service changes. Have any garages lost or gained routes since the change? Sorry if it's already been asked/answered. Thanks in advance.
Acocks Green have lost the 71 & 966. They've gained the 58, 73 & X12.
Quote from: 966 on June 07, 2017, 06:26:22 PM
Is there an up to date list of garages and which routes they operate following the East Birmingham Service changes. Have any garages lost or gained routes since the change? Sorry if it's already been asked/answered. Thanks in advance.
You can refer to my spreadsheet linked to in the Noteworthy Workings topic:
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=4788.msg215175#msg215175
Thanks both.
BC do the 94C in the afternoon
The 14 rota apprantely
Interesting impressed by the x12 branding today, however X12 and X70 running together in Bromford a non peak hour time. Think it has been mentioned before the 71 display 70 @ the back still. (7033 I think it was).
There are a lot of people saying that they have heard that the 55 is to be rerouted down Cooks Lane and Chelmsley Road. Can anyone confirm if this is true or not ?
Noticed most buses on the X12/X70 since they started enter the City Centre via Heartland Parkway and Necells Parkway then leave via the Aston Expressway and Tyburn Road, is this the route they're supposed to use when there are no traffic problems
@Tony .
How funny nxbus marketing team are posting leaflets through people's door saying the x12 goes via Coleshill.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 30, 2017, 08:09:19 PM
How funny nxbus marketing team are posting leaflets through people's door saying the x12 goes via Coleshill.
The same retards who proof read the NX website presumably. The degree of incompetence is staggering.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on June 30, 2017, 08:09:19 PM
How funny nxbus marketing team are posting leaflets through people's door saying the x12 goes via Coleshill.
I keep forgetting to thank them for 'improving' the NEC/BHX - Chelmsley Wood corridor from 'just' 4 buses an hour to three...
In their defence it was funded before. See I can be balanced when it comes to nxbus in the east lol.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 01, 2017, 12:39:40 PM
In their defence it was funded before. See I can be balanced when it comes to nxbus in the east lol.
You soon changed you tune? Any new buses for the 94? 😉
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 01, 2017, 01:05:16 PM
You soon changed you tune? Any new buses for the 94? 😉
Don't start him off, then he will start going on about the East with no 'new' buses again!
What I have noticed on a lot of bus flags on the X12 from Green Lane to Chelmsley Interchange still have the 966 on them in both directions. Unless I am missing something here I thought the X12 took over from the 966 ??? ;D.
The new route the X12 now takes from missing out Beechdale Road and the others, seems a lot better and quicker too meaning the X12 now turns right into Green Lane instead of left when it was the 966.
Quote from: Squiz1971 on July 01, 2017, 01:46:46 PM
What I have noticed on a lot of bus flags on the X12 from Green Lane to Chelmsley Interchange still have the 966 on them in both directions. Unless I am missing something here I thought the X12 took over from the 966 ??? ;D.
The new route the X12 now takes from missing out Beechdale Road and the others, seems a lot better and quicker too meaning the X12 now turns right into Green Lane instead of left when it was the 966.
I think one of them independents is still running the 966. DTS which is basically Social Travel part 2.
Quote from: MW on July 01, 2017, 01:48:40 PM
I think one of them independents is still running the 966. DTS which is basically Social Travel part 2.
The blue buses that ran alongside the 966 before the changes
@MW ? So that would be why then cheers mate
Quote from: Squiz1971 on July 01, 2017, 02:56:03 PM
The blue buses that ran alongside the 966 before the changes @MW ? So that would be why then cheers mate
Don't take my word on that. It's a guess lol
Quote from: MW on July 01, 2017, 03:28:25 PM
Don't take my word on that. It's a guess lol
Yes you are correct, Discount Travel Solutions are still operating the 966.
Quote from: Jack B on July 01, 2017, 01:07:28 PM
Don't start him off, then he will start going on about the East with no 'new' buses again!
I only speak observations so if they are relevant I will raise them as often as I like. ;)
http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/x70-changes-from-sunday-16th-july-2017?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn&utm_source=Facebook&utm_content=Services+Changes
So it seems that the new X70 is being altered again already. Thoughts?
Quote from: MasterPlan on July 11, 2017, 07:05:42 PM
http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/x70-changes-from-sunday-16th-july-2017?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn&utm_source=Facebook&utm_content=Services+Changes
So it seems that the new X70 is being altered again already. Thoughts?
The Saturday frequency has been reduced
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 11, 2017, 07:25:27 PM
The Saturday frequency has been reduced
Saturdays between Coleshill and Chelmsley have been reduced to hourly.
Monday to Fridays between Birmingham and Coleshill have been increased to half hourly.
Quote from: 2206 on July 11, 2017, 07:34:39 PM
Saturdays between Coleshill and Chelmsley have been reduced to hourly.
Monday to Fridays between Birmingham and Coleshill have been increased to half hourly.
I am aware of this. They kept the details of the Saturday changes very quiet
They reduced the sat to hourly on the 4th anyway.
I was going to ask the brummies what loading have been like on the new x services
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 11, 2017, 11:06:01 PM
I was going to ask the brummies what loading have been like on the new x services
Seeing as neither [X12/X70] aren't my local routes, it's hard for me to give a perspective as a 'regular' passenger; as one I am not - heck, you could disregard my remarks altogether.
From what I've seen/heard, particularly on the forum, the X12 has been well received. I am yet to see, in person, what the loadings for the X70 are like - however I did have a glance into an X12 leaving City Centre around midday, complete with a full load (on the lower saloon, at least.)
Of course, being non-stop up to Bromford(?), I recall some remarks made by enthusiasts on the forum mentioning that it'd be helpful if the announcements (declaring the direct route) were made prior to leaving a stop - if not, at an earlier stop, allowing passengers some leeway - should they need to/want to alight; else they'd have to travel all the way into City Centre/opposite direction before doing so. I have read in some instances where a Walsall driver (IIRC) uses the microphone in the cab to announce its Limited Stop/Express status; perhaps something similar could be done on the X12, should the announcements fail to alert the passenger.
At least now the Birmingham to Coleshill part of the X70 route will get 2 buses an hour like it did before the 4/6/17 changes & the Bromford Estate will now get 5 buses an hour for most of the day not in parts at the moment. To me the new changes look a lot better now the X70 will be half hourly the whole route not just the Chelmsley Wood to Coleshill section
I don't know how true this is but apparently route 55 and 94 are changing. I driver showed me a new map today on the 55. Anyone know ???
Fb someone thought the 55 might use chelmsley Rd & cooks lane as the forth drive turn onto cooks lane was becoming dangerous
More changes to the x70 will now run via chelmsley Rd that's not on the nxbus website??
Quote from: monkeyjoe on July 16, 2017, 06:37:37 PM
More changes to the x70 will now run via chelmsley Rd that's not on the nxbus website??
It only uses Chelmsley Road between Coleshill Heath Road and Helmswood Drive.
https://journeyplanner.networkwestmidlands.com/Timetables/cen_33X70_B_H_y11/2/Outbound/0
What I am saying they are changing the route away from Berwicks lane to serve chelmsley rd again (or at least that is how I am reading the fab post) there is a cutting explaining that on facebook in nxwm style writing along with the hams hall route changes. The point I'm making is the chelsmsley rd changes are not on the website and they are meant to have started today.
Also noticed on the x70 timetable started yesterday the short 70 journey from park hall school with the x70 timetabled to arrive at the same time they both take the same time to get into the city 1545 ummmm interesting
Have been told that August will see changes to the 55 and 94 services.
55 will be routed via Cooks Lane and Chelmsley Road.
94 will be routed Cooks Lane, Forth Drive, Chester Road and Moorend Avenue.
I wonder what the rationale is of swapping them over then???
How are these changes being received by users now then? Particularly interested in the x route loadings
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 10, 2017, 08:10:32 PM
How are these changes being received by users now then? Particularly interested in the x route loadings
As a regular passenger on the X1 and X2 services between Bordesley station and Swan Island, I'm pleased that the general reliability has improved. I have mentioned before that I would sometimes use to catch the 58/59/60 when gaps in service appeared, however there have been very few occasions where I actually opt to catch the 60 now.
The biggest improvement for me has been since Small Heath Bridge re-opened, which has seen far less congestion on the approaches to Poets Corner island on the A45. The recent closure of Golden Hillock Road at this junction is also making travelling on these routes a dream, as they now effortlessly glide along Small Heath Highway in both directions. 8)
Loadings are pretty good still, however there is rarely standing room only, which is a bonus. It tells me that despite my initial reservations, the timetable changes to these routes has actually worked out better for passengers.
The x12 and x70 seem to have good loadings whenever I see them in the city whilst waiting for Saltley bound buses. There does seem to be a more noticeable gap now in services with the loss of the 70, 72 and Claribel 55, however I haven't noticed any of the overcrowding, and masses of buggies left behind that I feared there would be.
When in Brum only tend to use evening between ventnor and city , not sure I will be asked too now slashed from 15 mins to 30 waits etc
Quote from: monkeyjoe on August 11, 2017, 09:51:30 PM
When in Brum only tend to use evening between ventnor and city , not sure I will be asked too now slashed from 15 mins to 30 waits etc
Still should be every 15. 30 on the 55 and 30 on the 94
Quote from: Gareth on August 13, 2017, 12:42:02 PM
Still should be every 15. 30 on the 55 and 30 on the 94
Think he's referring to the every 15 minute evening frequency that the 56, 70 & 94 created
Quote from: Sh4318 on August 13, 2017, 01:52:55 PM
Think he's referring to the every 15 minute evening frequency that the 56, 70 & 94 created
Because 2 stops to the Fox and Goose or 2 stops the other way to the express routes is too far
Quote from: Kevin on August 13, 2017, 06:33:18 PM
Because 2 stops to the Fox and Goose or 2 stops the other way to the express routes is too far
Ah yes, I forgot which side of the Fox and Goose, Ventnor Ave was. But yes, a couple of minutes from Fox and Goose will get you a 15 minute frequency into City.
More competition for the 72 corridor I notice. Will it really work for them?
Anyone heard of any other changes to this area after the 4th June Changes?