East Birmingham Sevice Changes - 4th June 2017

[2206]

I can't see the 1 being converted to single deck to be honest. The deckers get fairly packed at peak times in Moseley/Edgbaston.

I reckon AG will lose some MMC to PB personally.

I haven't sat down to try and work the numbers out yet but are AG downsizing in capacity overall?

The new 58 and 73 will probably use 5-6 buses between them. The 72 will have a lower PVR and the X12 will have 2-3 more than the 966 currently.

71 PVR is something like 12-13 as far as I remember.

Sounds like a decreased overall capticity unless some more work is gained from elsewhere. Maybe the 17 from BY?

There are quite a few E200 MMC on there everyday in the peaks. From what i've seen in the peaks the E200 MMC do seem to just about cope. If the 1 isn't converted to completely single decker operation to free up deckers for the 72 and the deckers came from elsewhere, I wander if AG could be getting a new vehicle type for the 72.

[Tony]

I can't see the 1 being converted to single deck to be honest. The deckers get fairly packed at peak times in Moseley/Edgbaston.

I reckon AG will lose some MMC to PB personally.

I haven't sat down to try and work the numbers out yet but are AG downsizing in capacity overall?

The new 58 and 73 will probably use 5-6 buses between them. The 72 will have a lower PVR and the X12 will have 2-3 more than the 966 currently.

71 PVR is something like 12-13 as far as I remember.

Sounds like a decreased overall capticity unless some more work is gained from elsewhere. Maybe the 17 from BY?

AG's PVR stays exactly the same

[andy41]

Speaking as a resident of Kingshurst I find these changes illogical and pretty unhelpful.
Whilst I can see reason for withdrawal of the 59 based on low passenger usage (my experiences of 2 - 3 journies per week between Kingshurst & Castle Bromwich are of virtually empty buses), i cannot understand the reasoning behind changing the 71 route to go along the Chester Road and omit Kingshurst - how does this benefit anybody? These overall changes mean that the centre has now lost direct links to Solihull, Sutton Coldfield, Sheldon, Yardley and Castle Bromwich. This really isn't what i would call progress. How can this be justified?

So as I suspected, the new timetable on the 71 indicates that Kingshurst just had to go due to the tightness of the workings.

They have kept the journey time at 55 minutes Chelmsley to Sutton and 53 minutes Sutton to Chelmsley, despite the omission. In my experience 71s rarely arrived at either end on time so they have taken the hit to pad it out. However, the real requirement to make an economy can be seen from the stand times.

The Sutton stand time goes down from 12 minutes to 6, with 6 being allowed at the Chelmsley end too. So you can see that to keep it in Kingshurst would have meant no recovery time atall at either end.

Anybody who knows the issues you can encounter at the Sutton end at any time of day will know that this timetable will soon fall apart. 

[monkeyjoe]

So as I suspected, the new timetable on the 71 indicates that Kingshurst just had to go due to the tightness of the workings.

They have kept the journey time at 55 minutes Chelmsley to Sutton and 53 minutes Sutton to Chelmsley, despite the omission. In my experience 71s rarely arrived at either end on time so they have taken the hit to pad it out. However, the real requirement to make an economy can be seen from the stand times.

The Sutton stand time goes down from 12 minutes to 6, with 6 being allowed at the Chelmsley end too. So you can see that to keep it in Kingshurst would have meant no recovery time atall at either end.

Anybody who knows the issues you can encounter at the Sutton end at any time of day will know that this timetable will soon fall apart.

Interesting stuff is that similar with the 94 missing out Cooks lane, time recovery vs limited resource etc

[Brummie45]

I remember many many years ago the 93 from Birmingham to Kingshurst was every 12 minutes and the 94 to Arran Way was every 12 minutes.

The 55 terminated at Kingshurst Mountford I believe

After a major review in the area the 94 and 55 were extended to Pine Square and the 93 frequency was cut.

How times have changed with only the 55 going through Kingshurst from June 4th.

[Tony]

I remember many many years ago the 93 from Birmingham to Kingshurst was every 12 minutes and the 94 to Arran Way was every 12 minutes.

The 55 terminated at Kingshurst Mountford I believe

After a major review in the area the 94 and 55 were extended to Pine Square and the 93 frequency was cut.

How times have changed with only the 55 going through Kingshurst from June 4th.

And before that the 55 terminated in Shard End. The 160 (later 93) to Kingshurst was every 20 min. The 194 (later 94) was every 30 minutes and terminated at Arran Way. The 166 (later 71) was also only every 30 minutes. The 165 started at Lanchester Way and was also every 30 minutes. The 195 from Arran Way to City via Cooks Lane was every 30 minutes, and the 162 (City via Tyburn Road) was peak times only. The new services still look wonderful compared to that.

[Stu]

AG's PVR stays exactly the same

Any chance if you could clarify if the 71 will continue to operate from AG garage?

As others have said, it seems a lot of dead mileage, however to be fair, there would be a fair bit of dead mileage if ran from any other garage really.

[CBBUser]

It looks like the 71 and 96 will interwork on Sunday evenings so I imagine it's PB bound

[MW]

AG's PVR stays exactly the same

Just worked it out (roughly). The current PVR for the 71, 72 & 966 is 30 (ish). From what I've seen of the new timetables, the total PVR for the 58, 72, 73 & X12 will be 30 (ish).

The current PVR for the current single deck routes (71 & 72) is 25 (ish). Let's say that the new 58 & 73 are single deck operated. The total PVR for the new 58 & 73 is 8 (ish). 25 minus 8 is 17. Let's round that number to 15, taking into account spares.

Surely AG will be losing around 15 E200 MMC in exchange for around 15 double decks? I know you probably cannot say yes, but can you confirm if I'm way of the mark? Or is it what others are suggesting and will the 1 become single deck. If this was the case, it'd mean a peak vehicle requirement of 28 (ish) for the 5, 31 & 72 out of 33 Crimson Geminis.

@Tony

[Brummie45]

There was also the 185 that operated from Lanchester Way alongside a 165. One went to Kings Heath and the other went to Cotteridge.

There was a 99 that ran from Lanchester Way to Bull Ring Bus Ststion via Lea Hall Station and Catell Road. 98 used to operate alongside the 99 but it turned down Chelmsley Road and continued to Marston Green from City Centre.

962 was a great route when operated by MS from Chelmsley Wood to Birmingham. The demise of the 962 was brought about when factories started shutting down on Tyburn Road. Also LH kept changing its route and renumbeted it to 993/994.


Not forgetting the 199 from Castle Vale to Acocks Green. MCW bus 2102 was a egular on the 199 with its different destination display.

[Steve3229vp]

With no through service from Kingshurst to Solihull which has caused some complaints from the public, how about a X71 running as the 71 from Sutton to Castle Bromwich, direct to Kingshust, Chelmsley then NON STOP to Marston Green, NON STOP to The Radleys/Sheldon Heath Road, then Limited Stop to Solihull....any thoughts ?

[monkeyjoe]

With no through service from Kingshurst to Solihull which has caused some complaints from the public, how about a X71 running as the 71 from Sutton to Castle Bromwich, direct to Kingshust, Chelmsley then NON STOP to Marston Green, NON STOP to The Radleys/Sheldon Heath Road, then Limited Stop to Solihull....any thoughts ?

Total non starter in my view.

[Stu]

Realistically, people are going to have to get used to catching more than one bus. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of area Daysaver at a reduced price is introduced, like they have done in Sandwell & Dudley.

[Steve3229vp]

Realistically, people are going to have to get used to catching more than one bus. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of area Daysaver at a reduced price is introduced, like they have done in Sandwell & Dudley.

I agree with you, it would work even better if for example the 71 and 72 had adjacent bus stops in Chelmsley Wood.

I think the long bus route will become less common in the future.

[monkeyjoe]

According to the map the x12 won't do the exact current 72 from   bromford to c wood , looks like it won't use Bradford Rd i.e. Missing out hurst lane north etc. Giving castle brom village new links to city and helping out where park field estate have lost out.