Details of the 20 Hydrogen buses due later this year are here
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/fleetlist/H1001.html
Nice to finally see a batch of new vehicles with local Birmingham registration plates again.
Quote from: Tony on April 30, 2021, 06:57:37 PM
Details of the 20 Hydrogen buses due later this year are here
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/fleetlist/H1001.html
Are there more electric buses coming this year?
Quote from: BK63 YWP on April 30, 2021, 09:33:26 PM
Are there more electric buses coming this year?
I've heard that NX aren't keen on ordering more BYDs due to reliability issues, but take it with a grain of salt as with any rumour.
Quote from: Mike K on April 30, 2021, 08:37:09 PM
Nice to finally see a batch of new vehicles with local Birmingham registration plates again.
Very similar to WN Volvos!
Quote from: DJ on April 30, 2021, 11:42:59 PM
I've heard that NX aren't keen on ordering more BYDs due to reliability issues, but take it with a grain of salt as with any rumour.
https://www.route-one.net/operators/national-express-zero-emission-buses-learning-every-day/
Quote from: DJ on April 30, 2021, 11:42:59 PM
I've heard that NX aren't keen on ordering more BYDs due to reliability issues, but take it with a grain of salt as with any rumour.
Perhaps it is best not to listen then.
Quote from: Tony on May 01, 2021, 10:11:49 AM
Perhaps it is best not to listen then.
Don't worry, I take rumours with a big grain of salt.
Quote from: DJ on April 30, 2021, 11:42:59 PM
I've heard that NX aren't keen on ordering more BYDs due to reliability issues, but take it with a grain of salt as with any rumour.
Quote from: cardew on May 01, 2021, 09:18:44 AM
https://www.route-one.net/operators/national-express-zero-emission-buses-learning-every-day/
Thanks for that link, interesting read.
I did suspect myself that NX would want to do a little 'long-term' evaluation and testing of these BYD EVs, before committing to purchase any more, considering the much higher cost.
Its also clear now that sending these EVs out on other routes at YW has also been 'deliberate' as part of testing them on different types of routes to compare performance and energy consumption.
I think we'll also see the same when the hydrogen vehicles arrive, with them being used in the same way to build up a picture of where they are best suited.
Therefore I believe in the long-term we'll see investment in both types of vehicle, though perhaps more in favour of the hydrogen type, if they are cheaper to purchase than the electrics.
Quote from: BN on May 01, 2021, 08:03:37 AM
Very similar to WN Volvos!
That hadn't occurred to me but yes, some of these have near identical plates to the Volvo B7s, just 21 reg instead of 12
Quote from: Mike K on May 01, 2021, 11:57:53 AM
That hadn't occurred to me but yes, some of these have near identical plates to the Volvo B7s, just 21 reg instead of 12
Those 12 plate Volvos and these 21 plate Streetdecks are also very similar to the 2004 batches of Trident / Gemini.
Do we know where these Hydrogens will be based yet?
Apologies if I've missed it stated somewhere.
Quote from: 888DUK on May 04, 2021, 10:08:35 AM
Do we know where these Hydrogens will be based yet?
Apologies if I've missed it stated somewhere.
It was said possibly Walsall I think.
Quote from: 2206 on May 04, 2021, 10:09:49 AM
It was said possibly Walsall I think.
Yep, the Hydrogen StreetDecks will be going to WA.
Quote from: DJ on May 04, 2021, 01:50:57 PM
Yep, the Hydrogen StreetDecks will be going to WA.
I am slightly expecting at least 1 of them on the X51 or 934-937 everyday
Why can't hydrogen buses be stored indoors? Am I missing something basic lol?
Quote from: Bus_user_jay on May 04, 2021, 11:28:16 PM
Why can't hydrogen buses be stored indoors? Am I missing something basic lol?
Is it for safety reasons of some sort/flammability?
"Hydrogen cylinders and storage tanks should be stored outside at a safe distance from structures, ventilation intakes, and vehicle routes."
"Hydrogen is about 57 times lighter than gasoline vapor (as shown in Figure 1) and 14 times lighter than air. This means that if it is released in an open environment, it will typically rise and disperse rapidly. This is a safety advantage in an outside environment."
https://h2tools.org/bestpractices/proper-storage-use-and-venting#:~:text=Hydrogen%20cylinders%20and%20storage%20tanks%20should%20be%20stored,with%20welded%20lines%20to%20connect%20to%20indoor%20equipment.
It wouldn't surprise me if you're right.
Quote from: bbs on May 04, 2021, 11:24:18 PM
I am slightly expecting at least 1 of them on the X51 or 934-937 everyday
For the X51/X2 cross city service
Just a thought for the future as hydrogen buses can't be stored inside garages that might end up with hydrogen buses could be Wolverhampton and pensnett along with Walsall with the likes of west brom and acocks green being electric bus garages due to being under cover garages with houses around them the new Perry Barr garage and both new Birmingham garages could be both hydrogen and electric run bus garages any thoughts ?
Quote from: karl724223 on May 08, 2021, 12:22:21 PM
Just a thought for the future as hydrogen buses can't be stored inside garages that might end up with hydrogen buses could be Wolverhampton and pensnett along with Walsall with the likes of west brom and acocks green being electric bus garages due to being under cover garages with houses around them the new Perry Barr garage and both new Birmingham garages could be both hydrogen and electric run bus garages any thoughts ?
Yeah I'd thought that although Tony said the tanks can be emptied and then re-filled - although maybe a bit of a faff? However the thing that struck me in that NX progress report on the electrics was the suggestion that hydrogen buses may be better on longer routes - notable the electrics at YW and CV are taken off service in the evening and covered by standard Platinums. I guess CV have the 11 and the Rugby/Nuneaton services which are longer than the others based there
perhaps? However WN, WA and PE each have some pretty long routes?
Quote from: karl724223 on May 08, 2021, 12:22:21 PM
Just a thought for the future as hydrogen buses can't be stored inside garages that might end up with hydrogen buses could be Wolverhampton and pensnett along with Walsall with the likes of west brom and acocks green being electric bus garages due to being under cover garages with houses around them the new Perry Barr garage and both new Birmingham garages could be both hydrogen and electric run bus garages any thoughts ?
There would also need to be more hydrogen refuelling points - like the one being built in Tyseley - as presumably garages won't have such refuelling facilities on site?
Quote from: Stu on May 08, 2021, 06:23:26 PM
There would also need to be more hydrogen refuelling points - like the one being built in Tyseley - as presumably garages won't have such refuelling facilities on site?
Walsall is having a hydrogen fuelling facility built.
Quote from: Tony on May 08, 2021, 07:20:52 PM
Walsall is having a hydrogen fuelling facility built.
Walsall it is then I thought it was Acocks green lol
Quote from: bbs on May 08, 2021, 11:22:40 PM
Walsall it is then I thought it was Acocks green lol
Not sure why. No-one has ever said they were going to Acocks Green
Quote from: Tony on May 09, 2021, 08:30:38 AM
Not sure why. No-one has ever said they were going to Acocks Green
There was some initial speculation here when the press release was first announced, it was assumed they would be based at Acocks Green because they would be refuelled at the new facility in Tyseley.
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=4951.0
But that rumour was put to bed once you suggested they would be going to Walsall.
https://twitter.com/brumleader/status/1398259918214504449?s=21
Just saw this on Twitter you can see the brand new hydrogen nxwm buses
https://flic.kr/p/2m2RSpP - On road test in Ballymena
A photo has been posted on Facebook of one of the new Hydrogen StreetDeck's on the back of a low loader at the Stena Line Terminal in Northern Ireland..
Photo ©️ Matthew Parkinson...
Quote from: Michael Bevan on June 26, 2021, 04:17:19 AM
A photo has been posted on Facebook of one of the new Hydrogen StreetDeck's on the back of a low loader at the Stena Line Terminal in Northern Ireland..
Photo ©️ Matthew Parkinson...
That should be H1002 which is on its way to a show, not coming directly to West Midlands
H1002 https://flic.kr/p/2m86Vpn (not my photo)
Quote from: CL on June 30, 2021, 11:09:23 AM
H1002 https://flic.kr/p/2m86Vpn (not my photo)
Is it me or is there 2 rows of seats oppersite each other on each side down stairs
Quote from: Jack6101 on June 30, 2021, 01:38:46 PM
Is it me or is there 2 rows of seats oppersite each other on each side down stairs
Yes there is due to batteries being underneath them. Google Hydrogen Streetdeck and you'll see the batteries just infront of the rear wheels
Quote from: BK63 YWP on June 30, 2021, 02:10:58 PM
Yes there is due to batteries being underneath them. Google Hydrogen Streetdeck and you'll see the batteries just infront of the rear wheels
not good for bumps like the inner circle then
Quote from: bbs on June 30, 2021, 10:02:14 PM
not good for bumps like the inner circle then
Not sure what you mean
Wright have updated their website, and their vehicles have gained new names. The standard Streetdeck is now the 'StreetDeck Ultroliner EU6', and the battery electric is the 'Streetdeck Electroliner BEV', with NX's Hydrogen ones officially called the 'StreetDeck Hydroliner FCEV'.
The StreetLite range has also gained the Ultroliner name, and the single deck StreetDeck is now the 'GB Hawk EU6 Diesel'.
Quote from: bbs on June 30, 2021, 10:02:14 PM
not good for bumps like the inner circle then
The Inner Circle is single deckers so no Hydrogen buses will be going on to it
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 01, 2021, 05:23:43 PM
The Inner Circle is single deckers so no Hydrogen buses will be going on to it
I don't get the comment about them being no good for bumps just because there are batteries under seats.
Any info on entry into service timings?
Quote from: bususer28 on July 01, 2021, 06:21:57 PM
Any info on entry into service timings?
Not for a few months yet until there is somewhere to fuel them
Quote from: Tony on July 01, 2021, 05:26:38 PM
I don't get the comment about them being no good for bumps just because there are batteries under seats.
I don't either
I thought he was referring to speed humps!
Quote from: Westy on July 01, 2021, 07:35:26 PM
I thought he was referring to speed humps!
He was, that is what we don't understand
Quote from: Tony on July 01, 2021, 05:26:38 PM
I don't get the comment about them being no good for bumps just because there are batteries under seats.
I took it that mr bbs was alluding to the state of the road surfaces along parts of the 8 route - but I don't know why he thought that would be a problem with batteries unless he thinks they're loose in the compartment and might fly around, or touch the bottom of the seat, adding to the passenger excitement of the ride....... ;) Of course, seats have been fitted over wheel arches on buses for many decades, and whilst arguably the seats are slightly less comfortable when the bus goes over a bump it's quite marginal really - certainly not on the same scale as sitting on the rear upstairs seat of 1L (1 UDH) on the 118 (now 51) travelling flat out over the hump bridge in Newtown Row towards city - which launched me to the ceiling of the bus!! I can assure BBS that the bus continued to perform as normal on the rest of the journey and no batteries apparently came loose - although the contents of my stomach were certainly roused momentarily!! The near side front seat on a regular Fleetline (especially a proper BCT or WMPTE, or Midland Red one) was always my favourite from childhood days - probably because you got a similar forward view to a driver and could also watch the driving.
As for hydrogen buses on the Inner Circle, I presume NXWM may consider single deck versions, but surely more likely to be electric single deckers owing to the route characteristics and mileage of the running boards?
Do these Hydrogen buses fit under the Highgate Road bridge, like the E400 MMC buses, or are they taller?
Quote from: 2206 on July 01, 2021, 09:34:51 PM
Do these Hydrogen buses fit under the Highgate Road bridge, like the E400 MMC buses, or are they taller?
They're a little taller at 4.4m, so they wouldn't be able to go under there.
Wright did offer a low height version of the StreetDeck though, at 4.2m, which would be able to fit. I'm not sure if that option is still offered though.
Quote from: don on July 01, 2021, 09:07:39 PM
I took it that mr bbs was alluding to the state of the road surfaces along parts of the 8 route - but I don't know why he thought that would be a problem with batteries unless he thinks they're loose in the compartment and might fly around, or touch the bottom of the seat, adding to the passenger excitement of the ride....... ;) Of course, seats have been fitted over wheel arches on buses for many decades, and whilst arguably the seats are slightly less comfortable when the bus goes over a bump it's quite marginal really - certainly not on the same scale as sitting on the rear upstairs seat of 1L (1 UDH) on the 118 (now 51) travelling flat out over the hump bridge in Newtown Row towards city - which launched me to the ceiling of the bus!! I can assure BBS that the bus continued to perform as normal on the rest of the journey and no batteries apparently came loose - although the contents of my stomach were certainly roused momentarily!! The near side front seat on a regular Fleetline (especially a proper BCT or WMPTE, or Midland Red one) was always my favourite from childhood days - probably because you got a similar forward view to a driver and could also watch the driving.
As for hydrogen buses on the Inner Circle, I presume NXWM may consider single deck versions, but surely more likely to be electric single deckers owing to the route characteristics and mileage of the running boards?
Oh alright.I was just saying that temporary bumps etc not like the inner circle
Quote from: bbs on July 02, 2021, 10:09:27 PM
Oh alright.I was just saying that temporary bumps etc not like the inner circle
Sorry still haven't a clue?
why would Hydrogen buses not like any bumps?
Quote from: Tony on July 03, 2021, 08:19:07 AM
Sorry still haven't a clue?
why would Hydrogen buses not like any bumps?
so you know if temporary bumps come on roads etc, wouldn't that damage the batteries?
Quote from: bbs on July 03, 2021, 09:36:37 AM
so you know if temporary bumps come on roads etc, wouldn't that damage the batteries?
Why?
Every single vehicle on the road has a battery.
Quote from: bbs on July 03, 2021, 09:36:37 AM
so you know if temporary bumps come on roads etc, wouldn't that damage the batteries?
Where are these 'temporary bumps'? The ones along the 8 aren't 'temporary' and are normal speed bumps...
Quote from: bbs on July 03, 2021, 09:36:37 AM
so you know if temporary bumps come on roads etc, wouldn't that damage the batteries?
Could you please explain what you mean by 'bumps' and why just the inner circle, we all a bit confused ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on July 03, 2021, 03:40:57 PM
Could you please explain what you mean by 'bumps' and why just the inner circle, we all a bit confused ?
Maybe he is referring to the speed bumps on Ash Road possibly?
Quote from: Squiz1971 on July 03, 2021, 03:57:55 PM
Maybe he is referring to the speed bumps on Ash Road possibly?
yes speed bumps
Quote from: bbs on July 04, 2021, 12:02:58 PM
yes speed bumps
Why would they affect batteries though?
Quote from: Tony on July 04, 2021, 12:10:35 PM
Why would they affect batteries though?
if there next to the wheels then wouldn't that be a problem?
Quote from: bbs on July 04, 2021, 12:13:05 PM
if there next to the wheels then wouldn't that be a problem?
No.
Quote from: bbs on July 04, 2021, 12:13:05 PM
if there next to the wheels then wouldn't that be a problem?
Why would that be a problem? What has the positioning of batteries got to do with speed humps? Electric vehicles travel over speed humps without damaging their batteries, so why would this be the case for a bus?
Quote from: Pat on July 04, 2021, 12:28:12 PM
Why would that be a problem? What has the positioning of batteries got to do with speed humps? Electric vehicles travel over speed humps without damaging their batteries, so why would this be the case for a bus?
Oh right.
Quote from: bbs on July 04, 2021, 03:05:56 PM
Oh right.
I'm asking you the question. Why do you think that speed humps would damage batteries? We're all a bit intrigued into why you think that.
Getting back on topic...
Quote from: Tony on July 01, 2021, 06:28:00 PM
Not for a few months yet until there is somewhere to fuel them
The original press release said they would be refuelled at the new facility in Tyseley, I presume this is no longer the case then?
Quote from: Stu on July 04, 2021, 05:19:49 PM
Getting back on topic...
The original press release said they would be refuelled at the new facility in Tyseley, I presume this is no longer the case then?
Fuelling facilities are being installed at Walsall garage as well as Tyseley, but Tyseley isn't ready yet either
Quote from: Tony on July 04, 2021, 06:00:58 PM
Fuelling facilities are being installed at Walsall garage as well as Tyseley, but Tyseley isn't ready yet either
So all vehicles will be based at WA, and use both the Walsall and Tyseley facilities then?
The launch certainly seems to have slipped from the council's initial talk of Spring 2021. I wonder if the semiconductor shortage could also impact new deliveries of electric buses for Coventry as well? Plenty of ageing vehicles to be kept on the road for a while yet I suspect. All of out of NX's hands and no criticism implied.
H1001 out in the sun at BC this morning
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/H1001/H1001.html
Does anyone know when the small heath highway roadworks finish for sprint. They have been here for how long now?
Quote from: bbs on July 05, 2021, 11:33:08 PM
Does anyone know when the small heath highway roadworks finish for sprint. They have been here for how long now?
They only started in March... not that long ago...
Quote from: bbs on July 05, 2021, 11:33:08 PM
Does anyone know when the small heath highway roadworks finish for sprint. They have been here for how long now?
making sure the road is flat so the batteries are ok
What happens if they need to be repaired will Walsall have a outdoor bay for the hydrogen buses or how will it work
Quote from: Solo1 on July 18, 2021, 01:29:52 PM
What happens if they need to be repaired will Walsall have a outdoor bay for the hydrogen buses or how will it work
Tony will be able to confirm this, it was previously stated that the fuel tanks can be emptied, so this strategy could be employed if a vehicle needs attention at an indoor repair bay.
Quote from: Stu on July 18, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
Tony will be able to confirm this, it was previously stated that the fuel tanks can be emptied, so this strategy could be employed if a vehicle needs attention at an indoor repair bay.
Look at the back offside and you will see the vent for releasing any Hydrogen in them.
Quote from: Tony on July 18, 2021, 02:06:46 PM
Look at the back offside and you will see the vent for releasing any Hydrogen in them.
Hold up. Vent? As in this scenario would mean all the fuel (yeah it's Hydrogen not petrol etc) just gets released into the air? Is that not ridiculously wasteful?
Quote from: Kevin on July 20, 2021, 08:14:35 AM
Hold up. Vent? As in this scenario would mean all the fuel (yeah it's Hydrogen not petrol etc) just gets released into the air? Is that not ridiculously wasteful?
As an exception rather than a rule, probably not. I believe hydrogen is £10/kg - the buses hold c. 27kg (1120 litres @ 350 Bar) so £270 for a tank (NXWM may receive preferential fuel rates). I wouldn't expect many of the fleet requiring discharge soon after fueling but do get your point.
Launch of the first bus at Centenary Square outside the library today:
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/news/article/932/birmingham_gets_first_hydrogen_bus
H1003 delivered today
H1004 delivered today
With September now with us, are H1005-20 going to be registered 71 plates?
Also with the commonwealth games in 6 months are NX going to purchase more hydrogen and Electrics before the games for the routes around Perry Barr?
Quote from: BK63 YWP on September 01, 2021, 07:54:36 PM
With September now with us, are H1005-20 going to be registered 71 plates?
They already have registrations:
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/fleetlist/H1001.html
Quote from: Stu on September 01, 2021, 07:59:40 PM
They already have registrations:
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/fleetlist/H1001.html
They haven't been taxed yet, so could get '71' plates
Did the same thing not happen with the Scania Bendybuses? I swear I have a vague memory of seeing one on an 04 plate.
Quote from: Abluhwleh on September 02, 2021, 09:13:14 AM
Did the same thing not happen with the Scania Bendybuses? I swear I have a vague memory of seeing one on an 04 plate.
6024 was originally BU04 BTE, Tony has a photo of it on the main site.
Quote from: Abluhwleh on September 02, 2021, 09:13:14 AM
Did the same thing not happen with the Scania Bendybuses? I swear I have a vague memory of seeing one on an 04 plate.
Yes and the ST02 B7s were originally BU51.
The BU08 plate Omnicities were also able to be reregistered from BV57 even though they were already in service.
H1005 delivered
http://www.wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/H1001/H1005.html
Are these new Hydro buses running without fleet numbers? as Tonys photos
of veh H001-4 appear to be un-numbered..at least not where you usually expect to see them.
Quote from: windy miller on September 04, 2021, 01:31:07 AM
Are these new Hydro buses running without fleet numbers? as Tonys photos
of veh H001-4 appear to be un-numbered..at least not where you usually expect to see them.
I'd think that they just haven't been applied yet. Only H1001 has had any vinyls applied to it so far.
One of these vehicles was seen ,under tow , heading south on the M5 earlier today. I/d gratefully received. Thanks.
Noted DBV (H1003) this morning passing through Newtown
Noticed BX21 DCO driving through Birmingham this morning with Tony driving
Is this the longest time a thread on this forum has continued without one of the vehicles it refers to entering service?
H1001 has been reregistered NX21 HEV
Will the later vehicles have 71 regs? In that case you could have NX71 HEV as well.
Quote from: Stevo on October 19, 2021, 05:03:03 PM
Will the later vehicles have 71 regs? In that case you could have NX71 HEV as well.
They could have a bunch to be fair, NXxx HEV, WMxx HEV, WAxx HEV would all work.
A clip of me driving demonstrator SK71 AOS through the wash at BC in this video
https://fb.watch/8ONHgrfurU/
For those not on Facebook... ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7t1eW577Ow
Maybe I am reading too much into this, but the West Midlands was the only one of the six "fast track" bids not announced. Hmm.
https://www.route-one.net/news/70m-for-first-five-zero-emission-bus-regional-areas-winners/
Quote from: cardew on October 28, 2021, 08:27:21 AM
Maybe I am reading too much into this, but the West Midlands was the only one of the six "fast track" bids not announced. Hmm.
https://www.route-one.net/news/70m-for-first-five-zero-emission-bus-regional-areas-winners/
It may be a different scheme, but Coventry has already won some funding in order to become one of the first 'all-electric bus' cities.
H1004 the first to get a fleet number applied?
http://www.wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/H1001/H1004.html
Reckon these will be in service before the end of the year
@Tony ? ;)
Quote from: Stu on October 30, 2021, 04:52:37 PM
H1004 the first to get a fleet number applied?
http://www.wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/H1001/H1004.html
Reckon these will be in service before the end of the year @Tony ? ;)
Only one so far, test one for all the stickers inside as well. Aiming for 5th December start, Tyseley fuelling station is working, so 1001, 1004 & 1012 I took to Walsall this week all have fuel in!
Quote from: Tony on October 30, 2021, 07:35:30 PM
Only one so far, test one for all the stickers inside as well. Aiming for 5th December start, Tyseley fuelling station is working, so 1001, 1004 & 1012 I took to Walsall this week all have fuel in!
Cool, I had a feeling we were looking at either a late November or early December launch. Only a few vehicles left to be delivered, and they all need livery/branding applied, as well as driver type-training.
Can I guess that these vehicles will be fuelled up at Tyseley until appropriate facilities are installed and ready at Walsall garage?
Quote from: Stu on October 30, 2021, 08:06:54 PM
Cool, I had a feeling we were looking at either a late November or early December launch. Only a few vehicles left to be delivered, and they all need livery/branding applied, as well as driver type-training.
Can I guess that these vehicles will be fuelled up at Tyseley until appropriate facilities are installed and ready at Walsall garage?
All the 51 boards have it scheduled in so the bus will head over to tyseley for refuelling once per day.
Will these be keeping their 21 plates? I don't know the current rules on re-registering but it looks like a number of them have been taxed.
Quote from: Mike K on October 30, 2021, 11:19:18 PM
Will these be keeping their 21 plates? I don't know the current rules on re-registering but it looks like a number of them have been taxed.
Do you need tax on zero emission vehicles? I thought not. Are buses different?
Looks like the single decker hydrogen version has been revealed
It's called the GB Kite
Also available in electric
https://wrightbus.com/en-gb/gb-kite-hydroliner-fcev
Quote from: BK63 YWP on October 31, 2021, 11:09:38 AM
Looks like the single decker hydrogen version has been revealed
It's called the GB Kite
Also available in electric
https://wrightbus.com/en-gb/gb-kite-hydroliner-fcev
I like it, but no more single deckers yet please, NX has more than enough of them
Quote from: Gareth on October 31, 2021, 10:02:20 AM
Do you need tax on zero emission vehicles? I thought not. Are buses different?
No idea what the rules are. I just checked the number plate of one of them on the vehicle tax checker (www.gov.uk) website and it said it was taxed until August 2022.
Quote from: BK63 YWP on October 31, 2021, 11:09:38 AM
Looks like the single decker hydrogen version has been revealed
It's called the GB Kite
Also available in electric
https://wrightbus.com/en-gb/gb-kite-hydroliner-fcev
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 31, 2021, 11:29:39 AM
I like it, but no more single deckers yet please, NX has more than enough of them
Not expected to begin production until next year, so no danger of any arriving soon! ;D
Quote from: Gareth on October 31, 2021, 10:02:20 AM
Do you need tax on zero emission vehicles? I thought not. Are buses different?
Quote from: Mike K on October 31, 2021, 11:33:42 AM
No idea what the rules are. I just checked the number plate of one of them on the vehicle tax checker (www.gov.uk) website and it said it was taxed until August 2022.
I had a look myself through the GOV.UK website, as far as I can see, zero emission cars and light vans pay no tax, however they still need to be 'taxed'.
Buses and HGVs pay different rates of vehicle tax, but I didn't see anything different for such vehicles that are zero emission.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 31, 2021, 11:29:39 AM
I like it, but no more single deckers yet please, NX has more than enough of them
Surely by the time they start being made, the Omnilinks will start disappearing...
Quote from: Abluhwleh on October 31, 2021, 11:49:34 AM
Surely by the time they start being made, the Omnilinks will start disappearing...
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 31, 2021, 11:29:39 AM
I like it, but no more single deckers yet please, NX has more than enough of them
When they do start to go some of the Omnilinks could possibly be replaced by Double Decks to maybe.
Quote from: 2206 on October 31, 2021, 11:51:59 AM
When they do start to go some of the Omnilinks could possibly be replaced by Double Decks to maybe.
And when it does come the time, just have enough single deckers in that are needed for the routes that can only be single deck. It isn't practical to change all the routes to bypass the low bridges.
Quote from: 2206 on October 31, 2021, 11:51:59 AM
When they do start to go some of the Omnilinks could possibly be replaced by Double Decks to maybe.
I didn't realise some omnilinks are 14 years old. Considering they withdrew the Volvos which are only 1 year older it wouldn't surprise me if they started withdrawing the early ones in a year or so
Quote from: Trident 4194 on October 31, 2021, 12:35:05 PM
I didn't realise some omnilinks are 14 years old. Considering they withdrew the Volvos which are only 1 year older it wouldn't surprise me if they started withdrawing the early ones in a year or so
Omnilinks are all Euro 6 as oppose to the Euro 3 B7RLEs, unless I'm mistaken?
Quote from: MW on October 31, 2021, 12:43:25 PM
Omnilinks are all Euro 6 as oppose to the Euro 3 B7RLEs, unless I'm mistaken?
Correct, plus the older ones are still being repainted into Crimson so can't see them off anywhere yet.
Also there must be around 200 older non euro 6 deckers, excluding Coventry, which you would assume have priority as the areas they can be used in are limited.
I don't want to further drag this thread off-topic, as this is about hydrogen buses.
But I would also assume that NX Bus will be keeping an eye on how Diamond get on with their electric motor 'retrofits'.
Depending on the cost, and the condition of the rest of the vehicle, some of these older single and double deck vehicles could yet get a 'new lease of life' and many more years out of them.
In particular the OmniLinks, certainly the later examples (1909 onwards) found at YW and WB with the grey interior don't give the impression of being over 11 years old, compared to the earlier ones with the blue interior.
The hydrogen technology is in a relative 'infancy', compared to the more established electric tech, so it remains to be seen whether there is any future possibility of such hydrogen retrofits becoming viable.
I believe it's been pointed out that while NX Bus 'aims' to have a zero-emission fleet by 2030, this is not going to be achieved just by buying new vehicles.
I did wonder what future the 'second-hand' bus market had, as the demand for used diesel vehicles is going to start 'dying off'. I guess if these 'retrofits' prove to be successful and cost-effective, the used bus market becomes one where buyers look for bodies/chassis in good enough condition to justify the cost of a retro-fit.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 31, 2021, 11:29:39 AM
I like it, but no more single deckers yet please, NX has more than enough of them
NX needs them so that the non double decker routes can have something that dont pollute. a great example would be perry barrs 8A/8C or AG's 4/4A
Quote from: Gareth on October 31, 2021, 10:02:20 AM
Do you need tax on zero emission vehicles? I thought not. Are buses different?
You still have to tax them as such, but the cost is zero
H1015 arrived today making it 16 now here (2@PB, 6@BC, 8@WA). 17th due Thursday
First time I have got a grey & red photo
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/4001-4224/3305.html
Quote from: Tony on October 31, 2021, 06:53:51 PM
You still have to tax them as such, but the cost is zero.
many low powered cars with clean emmissions are free from tax these days..
I bought a 1200cc Ford Fiesta Ecoboost on a 17 plate back in August. I had no idea there was no road tax actually payable ...a pleasant surprise!
I got a good deal from my local Ford dealer having been offered
over £1700 for a 10 yr old PX with only 42K on both cars.. Its avge is 43mpg
mixed urban and 48+ on distance @65mph The only
'irritation' I have found is the fuel filler tube has a sharp bend...
..the pump has to be in contact with the filler tube at exactly the correct angle and you need to be patient otherwise the pump will throw fuel back at you...or on the deck.. otherwise a very nice comfortable little motor very pleased so far.
.
My 1930 Standard Teignmouth saloon has free road tax too. I don't think it has particularly clean emissions though! Cruises happily at 35mph as long as it doesn't come to a hill. Sorry - nothing whatsoever to do with hydrogen vehicles!
One for Tony to possibly answer, if it hasn't been already. Are there any plans for further Hydrogen powered buses in either the near or long term future?
Quote from: markcf83 on November 10, 2021, 01:29:18 PM
One for Tony to possibly answer, if it hasn't been already. Are there any plans for further Hydrogen powered buses in either the near or long term future?
The TFWM BSIP says there are plans for 100 additional hydrogen double decker buses in 2023 on page 43.
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/1xebdeu4/wmca-bsip-05-november-2021.pdf
Quote from: 2206 on November 10, 2021, 01:36:52 PM
The TFWM BSIP says there are plans for 100 additional hydrogen double decker buses in 2023 on page 43.
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/1xebdeu4/wmca-bsip-05-november-2021.pdf
I haven't seen that,but I will do shortly. Thanks.
That was a very interesting read...
WHY AREN'T ANY OF THE BUS PASSENGERS WEARING MASKS? :( It is a very strange thing to see that the only person pictured in a mask in the whole document is Boris Johnson (I know bus drivers/Andy Street etc. weren't in a place where they need to wear one but given they're talking about recovery it'd be nice to have set an example).
*ahem*
- The possibility that there will be additional electric vehicles going to Wolverhampton as they're building a pantograph in the bus station, 2022.
- "First fully zero emission local bus fleetoperator on West Midlands services (Stagecoach)" 2025.
- Multi-operator fares to not be at a premium.
It may be worth having a separate topic for discussion of that document alone.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 10, 2021, 10:14:04 PM
That was a very interesting read...
WHY AREN'T ANY OF THE BUS PASSENGERS WEARING MASKS? :( It is a very strange thing to see that the only person pictured in a mask in the whole document is Boris Johnson (I know bus drivers/Andy Street etc. weren't in a place where they need to wear one but given they're talking about recovery it'd be nice to have set an example).
They're just pictures.
Also pictures that could even have been taken a few years ago. So to be fair i'm not sure it matters.
They are the same "promotional" ones NX use on the facebook page.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 10, 2021, 10:14:04 PM
- The possibility that there will be additional electric vehicles going to Wolverhampton as they're building a pantograph in the bus station, 2022.
- "First fully zero emission local bus fleetoperator on West Midlands services (Stagecoach)" 2025.
- Multi-operator fares to not be at a premium.
It may be worth having a separate topic for discussion of that document alone.
It also mentions about completing West Midlands Bus brand roll out. Increased bus priority, 106km of new bus lanes. Including for the Outer Circle in 2025. Plus "A core network of 110 services. enhanced frequencies and minimum service levels."
https://api.warwickshire.gov.uk/documents/WCCC-222510381-265
And this is Warwickshire council's version of it for Warwickshire.
@Stu, could this be forked out into a different topic so we don't bog down all the hydrogen bus talk?
Thanks.
Quote from: ellspurs on November 11, 2021, 04:33:43 PM
@Stu, could this be forked out into a different topic so we don't bog down all the hydrogen bus talk?
Thanks.
Please feel free to start a new topic for this.
When talking about BSIPS it is important to note a few key points.
There is only 1.2 billion in the pot which is split into 2 key elements capital £600 million which is for infrastructure bus lanes etc & revenue (fares/ticketing etc.
Areas which recieved City regional transport settlement funding of which the west Midlands is one, will NOT recieve any of the Capital element.
Only 20 of the LTAs will recieve a share of the revenue element.
So there is likely going to be a huge funding deficit come April 2022
Are the 48XX's planned to stay at WA and see use on other routes or move elsewhere? Particularly when all 20 are fully in use eventually.
Quote from: 2206 on December 01, 2021, 07:32:32 PM
Are the 48XX's planned to stay at WA and see use on other routes or move elsewhere? Particularly when all 20 are fully in use eventually.
As per my regularly answer to questions like this I don't post future transfers
What's the range on these vehicles? How long can they do in service?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on December 01, 2021, 10:37:35 PM
What's the range on these vehicles? How long can they do in service?
According to the WrightBus website, they can do between 250 and 280 miles on a full tank.
In case anyone was wondering, some posts have been removed from this thread following an 'external request'.
Tony would appreciate it if people didn't ask about, or make any comments on what you may have seen that has subsequently been removed.
For the armchair bustimesveg H1002 is now tracking
I know further back Tony mentioned 5/12 as the hoped for date of Hydrogens entering service. Have some of them entered service today?
Quote from: MARKG on December 05, 2021, 10:30:02 AM
I know further back Tony mentioned 5/12 as the hoped for date of Hydrogens entering service. Have some of them entered service today?
Tomorrow
Thanks Tony.
How many tents outside Walsall garage for the early launch
H1004/08/09 noted out
Nothing in Walsall just, while I was waiting for a 529!
H1004, H1006, H1009, H1010, H1011 are the 5 that were allocated to 'all-day' boards today, and all 5 are still out.
How many now have fleet names on as iknow some have yet
to have the applied thanks
Quote from: Solo1 on December 06, 2021, 03:35:37 PM
How many now have fleet names on as iknow some have yet
to have the applied thanks
All of them before use
A Hydrogen vehicle was sighted on an X51 in Cannock this evening!
@Tony stated there will be a Hydrogen on an eevening Cannock X51 on a regular basis. Apparently the photo was taken around 1820 ish! I'm wondering weather it's the 1825 X51 off Cannock
Quote from: Tony on December 06, 2021, 04:26:50 PM
All of them before use
what I was saying was how many are ready with fleet names on for service I know they will have fleet names added before they enter service
Quote from: Solo1 on December 06, 2021, 07:44:06 PM
what I was saying was how many are ready with fleet names on for service I know they will have fleet names added before they enter service
Well what difference does that make to you? as you won't see any to photograph in service?
I don't sit there watching Lee and his team from Mobile signs all day so cannot give you an answer as I have no idea which ones he put on today
How many are done
Quote from: Solo1 on December 06, 2021, 08:00:03 PM
How many are done
Stop being rude and just wait for them to appear with their names
Quote from: Solo1 on December 06, 2021, 08:00:03 PM
How many are done
Which part of 'I don't know how many were done today' is too difficult?
Quote from: BusMan Greg on December 06, 2021, 07:14:23 PM
A Hydrogen vehicle was sighted on an X51 in Cannock this evening! @Tony stated there will be a Hydrogen on an eevening Cannock X51 on a regular basis. Apparently the photo was taken around 1820 ish! I'm wondering weather it's the 1825 X51 off Cannock
Looks like it's been changed with 6758 today at 15:30 in Walsall.
So, has anyone here actually travelled on one of these yet? And if so, what do you make of them?
Quote from: Stu on December 10, 2021, 08:15:26 PM
So, has anyone here actually travelled on one of these yet? And if so, what do you make of them?
I had H1011 the other day. They're pretty quick off the line, and I'm very impressed with the build quality. No rattles or creaks to speak of, and plenty of leg room too, the complete opposite of my thoughts on the BYD City's. I've heard the steering is a bit heavy though, and the driver I chatted with wasn't a fan of them.
Quote from: Stu on December 10, 2021, 08:15:26 PM
So, has anyone here actually travelled on one of these yet? And if so, what do you make of them?
I've travelled on a couple of them. I've got to echo what
@DJ has said about the build quality being great on them! I think the E400 EV's are quite noisy going over potholes, but the Hydroliner's feel like just a standard bus. They also get up to speed quick and smoothly! The only downside to them (and the same with the normal Streetdeck) is how quickly the windows can mist up in certain conditions, especially the front window as there is no forced ventilation by the front window, but that isn't a major issue.
Assuming they're not sending them out on the weekend?
Quote from: Kevin on December 11, 2021, 09:46:08 AM
Assuming they're not sending them out on the weekend?
No
I thought I would've seen at least one parked up ready for service in Walsall by now, but at the times I'm about, I'm either having to make a quick change between buses, due to close connections, there's no 51's in the stop, or as I saw last night, a Plattie on the 51 instead!
Hiya, Just wondering does anyone know if there are any Hydrogen Buses out today?
Quote from: GoldenSquid on December 15, 2021, 12:17:00 PM
Hiya, Just wondering does anyone know if there are any Hydrogen Buses out today?
I think I saw the back of one going up Hatherton Road this morning about 7am!
Quote from: don on December 18, 2021, 04:56:45 PM
The lack of any hydrogens showing on 51 was mildly irritating
They aren't used on the Weekend or Weekday late nights I think it was said?
Quote from: 2206 on December 18, 2021, 05:14:42 PM
They aren't used on the Weekend or Weekday late nights I think it was said?
The handful set up on the fleet have never appeared on there (except for tracking inside WA garage). In fact the first day they were used on the 51 looking at the route in the morning peak, it only showed 5 buses I think over the whole route (48xx Enviros). Presumably the gaps were non tracking hydrogens.
Quote from: don on December 18, 2021, 10:27:01 PM
The handful set up on the fleet have never appeared on there (except for tracking inside WA garage). In fact the first day they were used on the 51 looking at the route in the morning peak, it only showed 5 buses I think over the whole route (48xx Enviros). Presumably the gaps were non tracking hydrogens.
The ones that do get sent out seemingly can't do a days service without being swapped during the day and some days during the last week theres been 0 Hydrogens out. Teething issues or not the whole introduction to service is poor and sloppy compared to how YW's Electric's entered service!
Quote from: Jack on December 18, 2021, 11:39:09 PM
The ones that do get sent out seemingly can't do a days service without being swapped during the day and some days during the last week theres been 0 Hydrogens out. Teething issues or not the whole introduction to service is poor and sloppy compared to how YW's Electric's entered service!
The reason they have to be swapped is normally untrained drivers. With the current shortage drivers off other rotas are regularly doing last minute overtime to cover. The reason not many are out some days is fuelling issues which are beyond NXs control. We are still having to fuel them on a small vehicle pump which struggles to cope and has been out of action a couple of days
Quote from: Tony on December 19, 2021, 06:55:23 AM
The reason not many are out some days is fuelling issues which are beyond NXs control. We are still having to fuel them on a small vehicle pump which struggles to cope and has been out of action a couple of days
Is this a lack of foresight from Birmingham city council? They were originally expecting these buses last year, you'd have thought they'd have worked with TEP (Tyseley Energy Park) to ensure the bus refueller was up and running ahead of the delivery of the hydrogen buses.
Are Walsall's refuelling facillities still in progress of constuction?
Quote from: Jack on December 18, 2021, 11:39:09 PM
The ones that do get sent out seemingly can't do a days service without being swapped during the day and some days during the last week theres been 0 Hydrogens out. Teething issues or not the whole introduction to service is poor and sloppy compared to how YW's Electric's entered service!
The hydrogen are refuel out of depot, Electric chargers installed into YW/CV, currently a driver shortage, when the electrics entered there were ample drivers.
Brexit has caused the driver issues as foreign nationals have left the country that were driving most of the HGVs, lorry companies have put the wage up alot higher than bus companies can match so current drivers are being tempted by this so are leaving bus companies.
Also Hydrogen is fairly new technology and not many operators of these vehicles around the country. There also the infrastructure needed for this highly flammable fuel to be put in place also.
Electric on the other hand has been going for a while even before standard electric cars and buses took off. The technology there has been adapted through the years plus batteries are becoming more energy efficient, some cars can get up 200 miles on a single charge or more.
YWs electric can't really do a full day in service and diesels usually do the late evening finishes. I believe according to bus times that Coventrys electrics can sometimes do a full day on the 9/9A as the route is less distance than the 6.
Wouldnt be surprised if certain garages in the future will just have one type of traction type. I.e. Walsall all hydrogen or Perry Barr all electric? But I'll need a crystal ball for that one
This is clearly a time of massive change in the industry and you would expect teething issues (the driver shortage is clearly a Brexit side effect some politicians are keen to play down/cover up).
Just in the January 2022 issue of Buses magazine there is the Beulas Jewel E double decker going on trial with Go Ahead London - this vehicle, using a U.K. developed drive train is an electric with claimed range of 300 miles. Also there are new Volvo double and single deck electrics, developed with body builder MCV, the first double deck example of the BZL double decker going into service with Metroline - Volvo is not disclosing the range of this vehicle currently.
All this points to ground shifting fairly quickly in terms of range of vehicles available so this may result in opportunities for operators - the electric for short and hydrogen for longer routes strategy may alter as a result - very interesting times.
This week and next week only 3 a day are planned to be out
3 a day? ..can someone tell me which service(s) they propose to
be in use on? and are there any additional safety features in the event of a
collision?..I wonder.. ???
Quote from: windy miller on December 20, 2021, 09:06:39 PM
3 a day? ..can someone tell me which service(s) they propose to
be in use on? and are there any additional safety features in the event of a
collision?..I wonder.. ???
Im sure they are as robust as any bus in a collision. They're hardly the Hindenburg.
On 51 service Walsall - Birmingham
Quote from: windy miller on December 20, 2021, 09:06:39 PM
and are there any additional safety features in the event of a
collision?..I wonder.. ???
Hydrogen buses are no more dangerous than diesel buses. In some respects they're safer as hydrogen is 14 times lighter than air and, if leaked, will rise into the atmosphere, whereas a diesel or petrol leak forms puddles and is a greater fire risk (granted, diesel is less flammable than petrol, but more dangerous if it vapourises). The buses are built just as robustly as diesel buses to protect everyone.
The hydrogen fuel system is protected by TPRD valves (thermally activated pressure relief device) which will release hydrogen into the atmosphere when the system detects increase temperature deemed a danger.
Quote from: Jack on December 18, 2021, 11:39:09 PM
The ones that do get sent out seemingly can't do a days service without being swapped during the day and some days during the last week theres been 0 Hydrogens out. Teething issues or not the whole introduction to service is poor and sloppy compared to how YW's Electric's entered service!
Hardly poor and sloppy if you look at the new technology, the infrastructure and the amount of work you DON'T see that goes into this type of bus. Again, it's very easy to criticise when you really don't consider how much work is required.
There was no huge fanfare and launch - it was a very soft launch and the press releases from NXWM were very mindful that this is still very much a trial phase to evaluate them, not only in service, but also behind the scenes to see if the whole process if fit for purpose.
I'd be very interested to know how you would have done it differently to NXWM.
Quote from: Solo1 on December 20, 2021, 10:44:44 PM
On 51 service Walsall - Birmingham
And possibly a X51 journey if one of them ends up on the 51 board that does an X51.
Are there any Hydrogens out today please?
Quote from: MARKG on December 31, 2021, 11:02:39 AM
Are there any Hydrogens out today please?
16 in city now. 1 + 20
Quote from: Solo1 on December 31, 2021, 12:07:30 PM
16 in city now. 1 + 20
Thanks. Since my last post I have seen those 3. Any likelihood they may be switched later & others out?
Quote from: MARKG on December 31, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
Thanks. Since my last post I have seen those 3. Any likelihood they may be switched later & others out?
I don't think they would of swapped them if driver not type trained
Q Is there any possibility that in the event of these H vehicles deemed
to be unsuitable for short distances is there/will there ever be an option
to remove all H equpment and resort to the present E engine ? and is it
possible to use/reuse chips from older vehicles when they are
withdrawn??
I saw one 'bombing' down the walsall road recently... :).
Do Hydrogen Buses run on Saturdays? Does anyone know how many are normally out?
Quote from: GoldenSquid on January 21, 2022, 09:36:40 PM
Do Hydrogen Buses run on Saturdays? Does anyone know how many are normally out?
someone one said that not out on Saturday only weekdays & about 3-5 out & 1 one a peak board unless its changed
Does anyone know when the hydrogen buses will start running on a Saturday?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-60266199
Any chance the NX hydrogens are headed for the same fate?
Quote from: Abluhwleh on February 05, 2022, 08:06:06 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-60266199
Any chance the NX hydrogens are headed for the same fate?
if NX finds the same issue they probably will too
Quote from: bbs on February 05, 2022, 09:36:29 PM
if NX finds the same issue they probably will too
If you read the whole article it's just a bracket that needs replacing and they will be back in service in a few days.
At least it's not a problem like the gas buses.
They were off for a few weeks.
Metroline's in London have also been taken off the road.
It is a good job that Metroline lost the 125 last weekend, so they had about 20 spare Volvo B5LHs to cover:-)
H1010, H1011 & H1012 are all marked up for service tomorrow
Quote from: Tony on February 06, 2022, 05:16:45 PM
H1010, H1011 & H1012 are all marked up for service tomorrow
H1011 (not tracking) and H1012 are out at the moment on the 51. H1010 did track this morning but I think it broke down on the 51.
H1001 & H1017 so far fuelled today so bioth likely to be out tomorrow
None showing as out today is the fueling station got a problem or is the problems with the buses themselves
Quote from: Solo1 on February 14, 2022, 08:19:34 AM
None showing as out today is the fueling station got a problem or is the problems with the buses themselves
Hydrogen Buses been off road all week due to inspections.
Did these ever come back into service?
Quote from: Abluhwleh on March 17, 2022, 04:28:35 PM
Did these ever come back into service?
I think they are awaiting for mods
@Tony is there a date for the return of the Hydrogen buses?
From the recent photos of the hydrogen vehicles that Tony has taken, can I presume that their return into service is now imminent?
QuoteFrom the recent photos of the hydrogen vehicles that Tony has taken, can I presume that their return into service is now imminent?
Hopefully, I have been fuelling them up on the car pump which is a bit of a pain as the tank supplying it only can fill up to about 80% of the buses capacity in one go, the commercial pumps will hopefully be back up and running the week after next.
Jolly good! the last recorded (tracked) veh appears to have been in mid
February? is there any likely hood of a re fueling option in the walsall area?
I seem to remember a large (bus)storage facility on the north side of walsall
town centre back in the 1980's? often referred to as 'moon base alpha'
Is it still there? Thanks
Quote from: windy miller on June 11, 2022, 11:36:27 PMJolly good! the last recorded (tracked) veh appears to have been in mid
February? is there any likely hood of a re fueling option in the walsall area?
I seem to remember a large (bus)storage facility on the north side of walsall
town centre back in the 1980's? often referred to as 'moon base alpha'
Is it still there? Thanks
Garages will eventually have their own refuelling facility.
When Walsall had the gas B10Ls back in the 1990s on were the gas tanks at the garage? I get the impression the gas for those was easier to handle than hydrogen.
QuoteWhen Walsall had the gas B10Ls back in the 1990s on were the gas tanks at the garage? I get the impression the gas for those was easier to handle than hydrogen.
The gas for the B10Ls came from the normal household mains supply which was why it was easier, no tanks required.
Quote from: Tony on June 13, 2022, 11:58:18 AMThe gas for the B10Ls came from the normal household mains supply which was why it was easier, no tanks required.
I remember them popping into British Gas at Dudley to fill up when they were first used as it was outside my office window!
Travelling to the West Mids in a couple of weeks - any news on when the Hydros might re-appear
Just wondering when the hydrogen buses will be back on the road again. Thanks.
QuoteJust wondering when the hydrogen buses will be back on the road again. Thanks.
Tomorrow
Quote from: PB50 on July 03, 2022, 08:35:38 AMJust wondering when the hydrogen buses will be back on the road again. Thanks.
A post I read said 5 will be out tomorrow
Quote from: Solo1 on July 03, 2022, 09:27:49 AMA post I read said 5 will be out tomorrow
Yes thanks for that. I've just noticed bustimes is showing 3 out this morning so I'll look out for them when I'm in town.
Can a hydrogen bus theoretically do a full days service if it started at 6am and finished at midnight on one tank?
QuoteCan a hydrogen bus theoretically do a full days service if it started at 6am and finished at midnight on one tank?
Yes
With these buses being out of service since February you would have thought that National Express would have trained all the new drivers that have recently started on the 51 service. Woman driver this morning hadn't driven one before nor been trained up on one. Luckily an inspector took the bus out of service and trained the woman up. Nice to see them back out on the road again.
presumably All hydros currently running on the 51 services? are there any plans for these hydro buses to work on other walsall based services?
Quote from: windy miller on July 07, 2022, 01:26:07 AMpresumably All hydros currently running on the 51 services? are there any plans for these hydro buses to work on other walsall based services?
think they are only allowed to run on 51 service
So after a long wait, I was finally able to sample a ride on one of these Wright Hydroliner buses today.
From a passenger point of view, I found the experience a little disappointing.
Granted, it was nice to ride on a shiny 'new' bus, and I'm sure regular passengers may appreciate these more compared to the older Enviro400s.
I boarded and sat upstairs, compared to the BYD E400EVs, or even the E400MMCs, the interiors 'feel' a little more cramped, and darker too, no doubt due to the smaller windows. Headroom seems more restricted too. The seats also don't feel as comfortable to sit on either.
The ride was fairly smooth, though the vehicle was noticably noisier than the E400EVs are, especially once up to speed.
I don't know whether this was unique to the bus I travelled on (H1017), but the next-stop announcements were quiet, and sounded quite 'tinny', like being played through cheap speakers.
Others may have their own opinions of course, but I found this experience a little underwhelming to be honest.
QuoteSo after a long wait, I was finally able to sample a ride on one of these Wright Hydroliner buses today.
From a passenger point of view, I found the experience a little disappointing.
Granted, it was nice to ride on a shiny 'new' bus, and I'm sure regular passengers may appreciate these more compared to the older Enviro400s.
I boarded and sat upstairs, compared to the BYD E400EVs, or even the E400MMCs, the interiors 'feel' a little more cramped, and darker too, no doubt due to the smaller windows. Headroom seems more restricted too. The seats also don't feel as comfortable to sit on either.
The ride was fairly smooth, though the vehicle was noticably noisier than the E400EVs are, especially once up to speed.
I don't know whether this was unique to the bus I travelled on (H1017), but the next-stop announcements were quiet, and sounded quite 'tinny', like being played through cheap speakers.
Others may have their own opinions of course, but I found this experience a little underwhelming to be honest.
Seats and legroom are identical, so not sure why the seat are less comfortable. Headroom is actually better, specially in the lower saloon (no mind your head notices on them). They are much better built than Alexander Dennis and I find the ride smoother on poor road surfaces. Most of the 51 route has recently been resurfaced so not much scope for pothole testing!
Will the Hydrogen Buses be out on weekends, or will they be out on weekdays only?
Quote from: Solo1 on July 07, 2022, 08:13:46 AMthink they are only allowed to run on 51 service
If the cross city service is indeed at least 6 months away it would be a waste not to use them on other services in the meantime. It's not as if the 51 needs twenty buses.
Quote from: cardew on July 07, 2022, 05:54:49 PMIf the cross city service is indeed at least 6 months away it would be a waste not to use them on other services in the meantime. It's not as if the 51 needs twenty buses.
Are they still training drivers?
QuoteAre they still training drivers?
No, as people leave they will have to be taken off the road because no one will be able to drive them.
Quote from: cardew on July 07, 2022, 05:54:49 PMIf the cross city service is indeed at least 6 months away it would be a waste not to use them on other services in the meantime. It's not as if the 51 needs twenty buses.
I believe they're Birmingham City Council funded, so they'd want them at the very least to be on Birmingham services and not getting vandalised on the 29. I guess having them do X2 runs would be too wasteful unless they were temporarily rehomed in Birmingham somewhere, which would then bring the driver training issue into a more acute effect.
Quote from: Tony on July 07, 2022, 05:39:07 PMSeats and legroom are identical, so not sure why the seat are less comfortable. Headroom is actually better, specially in the lower saloon (no mind your head notices on them). They are much better built than Alexander Dennis and I find the ride smoother on poor road surfaces. Most of the 51 route has recently been resurfaced so not much scope for pothole testing!
I guess its all a matter of perception. The upper deck just didn't 'feel' as light and airy as on the E400EVs. I'm not the tallest of fellas, but just walking down the aisle, my head seemed closer to the ceiling than on other vehicles.
No complaints about the legroom though.
If I think back to my first experience of travelling on an E400MMC and then an E400EV, I was pretty impressed, so maybe my expectations were set a little too high on this occasion!
Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are necessarily 'bad' buses, will probably just take a little longer to get used to them.
QuoteI guess its all a matter of perception. The upper deck just didn't 'feel' as light and airy as on the E400EVs. I'm not the tallest of fellas, but just walking down the aisle, my head seemed closer to the ceiling than on other vehicles.
No complaints about the legroom though.
If I think back to my first experience of travelling on an E400MMC and then an E400EV, I was pretty impressed, so maybe my expectations were set a little too high on this occasion!
Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are necessarily 'bad' buses, will probably just take a little longer to get used to them.
The new EV's for Coventry have an improved seat over the original 'platinum' ones I haven't sat in one long enough to give an opinion on whether they are comfier, so something for discussion when they enter service
Quote from: Stu on July 07, 2022, 05:07:44 PMI don't know whether this was unique to the bus I travelled on (H1017), but the next-stop announcements were quiet, and sounded quite 'tinny', like being played through cheap speakers.
I did notice the same with the speakers when I last rode on one, back when they first entered service. Other than that, I was impressed, and they're a great improvement over the old E400s.
I've been saying for ages that newer ADL products are lacking when it comes to build quality, E400 MMCs in particular tend to rattle and creak a lot on the interior, whereas I don't notice anywhere near the same amount of issues with newer Wright products. They've definitely stepped up their game lately.
Is the "new bus smell" is there?
Quote from: mesub on July 07, 2022, 07:54:58 PMIs the "new bus smell" is there?
Sadly no, not after six months or so!
Don't suppose there's any chance of seeing one at Aston Manor this weekend is there?
QuoteDon't suppose there's any chance of seeing one at Aston Manor this weekend is there?
No, At the moment we are not allowed to take them to events
I'd assume they won't be out today
QuoteI'd assume they won't be out today
No, the following are booked out for Monday
| H1001 |
| H1014 |
| H1011 |
| H1012 |
| H1013 |
Seems to me like this is a pretty pointless batch of buses, off the road more times than on since delivery.
QuoteSeems to me like this is a pretty pointless batch of buses, off the road more times than on since delivery.
The first issue was down to the manufacturer withdrawing the buses until a modification was fitted and the second issue was with the fueling station in Tyseley both out of NXs hands.
Quote from: Tony on July 09, 2022, 09:46:48 AMNo, the following are booked out for Monday
| H1001 |
| H1014 |
| H1011 |
| H1012 |
| H1013 |
H1005 passed its MOT friday
Should have had fuelling facilities sorted before taking delivery.
You don't buy an electric car before fitting a charger at your house first.
Why can't they all be used on the same day and what's the issue using them at weekends.
QuoteH1005 passed its MOT friday
And H1006
QuoteShould have had fuelling facilities sorted before taking delivery.
You don't buy an electric car before fitting a charger at your house first.
Why can't they all be used on the same day and what's the issue using them at weekends.
Because if you use them all every day you have to fuel them all every day, and at the moment there isn't the staff to do it. Hopefully after the school holidays in September they will all be in use each day
That's extremely poor planning (please don't blame COVID)
You should not have taken delivery until all the necessary facilities were in place.
Who would invest in 20 X anything for only 6 to be used 5/7 a week.
Quote from: Mayfield on July 09, 2022, 09:39:54 PMThat's extremely poor planning (please don't blame COVID)
You should not have taken delivery until all the necessary facilities were in place.
Who would invest in 20 X anything for only 6 to be used 5/7 a week.
Birmingham City Council are quite apt at doing things like this. Guess who purchased the vehicles and arranged the refuelling facilities?
QuoteThat's extremely poor planning (please don't blame COVID)
You should not have taken delivery until all the necessary facilities were in place.
Who would invest in 20 X anything for only 6 to be used 5/7 a week.
Well it's COVID that started the driver shortage, which wasn't a problem when they were ordered
Quote from: Tony on July 09, 2022, 10:16:44 PMWell it's COVID that started the driver shortage, which wasn't a problem when they were ordered
I thought the overall nationwide driver shortage (PCV and HGV) was also caused by emigration caused by a certain political event? Apparently the overall workforce had reduced significantly by people returning to their home countries.
Anyway it's good to hear the whole batch will be in service in a couple of months - presumably WL will be able to replace 15 more vehicles!
QuoteI thought the overall nationwide driver shortage (PCV and HGV) was also caused by emigration caused by a certain political event? Apparently the overall workforce had reduced significantly by people returning to their home countries.
Anyway it's good to hear the whole batch will be in service in a couple of months - presumably WL will be able to replace 15 more vehicles!
During covid a lot of elderly drivers decided to take their retirement which also added to the lower numbers. This has been the reason the railway are struggling as well.
Quote from: Tony on July 10, 2022, 02:32:39 PMDuring covid a lot of elderly drivers decided to take their retirement which also added to the lower numbers. This has been the reason the railway are struggling as well.
Much the same elsewhere - in spite of trumpeted increases in Police manpower it's insufficient to replace natural wastage (people leaving or retiring) so there is a net reduction in reality.
14.5 hours in QE A & E last week - shortages everywhere!
Quote from: don on July 10, 2022, 04:39:48 PMMuch the same elsewhere - in spite of trumpeted increases in Police manpower it's insufficient to replace natural wastage (people leaving or retiring) so there is a net reduction in reality.
Surely with the police, they're trying to get back to the level they had before austerity, so 'increase ' isn't really correct?
That's the skill of politicians - what is the increase against (not stated but probably the low point in the last few years). The point is that the rate of people leaving or retiring exceeds the recruitment rate - so there will be a reduction against any analysis (and a significant one against pre-austerity levels).
On H1010 now, downstairs. Quite a nice bus, matches what's been said previously. It's also nice to see the revenue inspectors having a more visible presence now as well.
The only thing I'll add is that the wifi doesn't seem to work.
Quote from: mesub on July 12, 2022, 11:37:03 AMOn H1010 now, downstairs. Quite a nice bus, matches what's been said previously. It's also nice to see the revenue inspectors having a more visible presence now as well.
The only thing I'll add is that the wifi doesn't seem to work.
Does anybody actually use the WiFi? When I've tried it in the past, it's only been good enough to check emails and messages, you've got no chance of getting a video to load for example.
Most areas near the city centre have 5G coverage these days, and even the 4G further out is plenty fast.
QuoteDoes anybody actually use the WiFi? When I've tried it in the past, it's only been good enough to check emails and messages, you've got no chance of getting a video to load for example.
Most areas near the city centre have 5G coverage these days, and even the 4G further out is plenty fast.
I do use it quite a bit, allows me to save my data for later!
Hydrogens out on a Saturday for the first time today
Nice to see some of the hydrogen buses out on a Saturday.
Is there plans for the 51 to go fully hydrogen operate or will that happen when more hydrogen facilities are built?
I see from Bustimes that no hydrogen buses are out today in service.
Article on the Hydrogen fleet roll-out.
https://www.route-one.net/features/national-express-where-hydrogen-is-fuelling-change/
Quote from: cardew on August 16, 2022, 01:43:43 PMArticle on the Hydrogen fleet roll-out.
https://www.route-one.net/features/national-express-where-hydrogen-is-fuelling-change/
Thanks for that, a very interesting read.
Apart from the 'recall' to fix some suspect engine/motor suspension mounting, it does offer some explanation as to why these have seen limited service so far.
But it does look like that, as Tony has already suggested, we'll start seeing more of these in active service daily from September.
I was surprised there was no mention of the recall. Also notable that the 144 hydrogen vehicles are described in the article as subject to funding, weren't WMCA shouting from the rooftops in March that they had won the funding?
I take it there's been no hydrogen buses out this week yet as I've not seen any.
Getting them all fuelled this week so all of them are available at the beginning of next week when services increase
Looking on Bustimes no hydrogen buses tracking for today so they must all be in the depot.
Quote from: PB50 on September 15, 2022, 09:17:03 AMLooking on Bustimes no hydrogen buses tracking for today so they must all be in the depot.
Strangely enough, I noted one out in the yard at Perry Barr earlier this afternoon - too far to ID - but had disappeared by the time I returned from a road test.
QuoteStrangely enough, I noted one out in the yard at Perry Barr earlier this afternoon - too far to ID - but had disappeared by the time I returned from a road test.
That was me popping in with H1006 to do some checks on the 7 electric buses there
I saw H1012 just coming through town. Been nearly a month since I saw that out in service.
QuoteI saw H1012 just coming through town. Been nearly a month since I saw that out in service.
Been longer than a month, hasn't been out since August. It had zero fuel in it so special arrangements for fuelling had to be sorted
I've noticed an increase in amount of hydrogen buses being used currently.
QuoteI've noticed an increase in amount of hydrogen buses being used currently.
Currently planned to have 6 out t any one time, there's some that come out for the evening peak as well now, so although 6 will be out there may be more than that used each day
Spotted one on the X51, as I was coming through Walsall earlier!
Quote from: Westy on November 01, 2022, 06:13:23 PMSpotted one on the X51, as I was coming through Walsall earlier!
Apparently they will do some Birmingham - Walsall X51 trips & 997S as well as the 51 trips. So you might start to see them on there regularly.
QuoteApparently they will do some Birmingham - Walsall X51 trips & 997S as well as the 51 trips. So you might start to see them on there regularly.
That's a good step to take, putting them on 934, 935,937 will also be great while the sprint works are still in works
Back in March the WMCA said there will be 124 hydrogen buses in use in the West Mids.
They said 24 will be Sprint artics.
https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/west-midlands-to-launch-uk-s-largest-hydrogen-bus-fleet-after-securing-30m-government-funding/
There are 20 at Walsall already so where are the others? Anyone know?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on November 05, 2022, 11:26:39 AMBack in March the WMCA said there will be 124 hydrogen buses in use in the West Mids.
They said 24 will be Sprint artics.
https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/west-midlands-to-launch-uk-s-largest-hydrogen-bus-fleet-after-securing-30m-government-funding/
There are 20 at Walsall already so where are the others? Anyone know?
The 124 excludes the 20 already at Walsall.
There will be 100 x Hydrogen Double Deckers & 24 x Hydrogen Artics for Sprint. Not sure when the rest are due.
Quote from: winston on November 05, 2022, 11:32:13 AMThe 124 excludes the 20 already at Walsall.
There will be 100 x Hydrogen Double Deckers & 24 x Hydrogen Artics for Sprint. Not sure when the rest are due.
I believe its been stated elsewhere that the DDs will start arriving in 2023, with the artics following in 2024, though I'm happy to be corrected.
Thanks to both for the info.
QuoteI am slightly expecting at least 1 of them on the X51 or 934-937 everyday
Non on the 934-7, but no doubt you've looked at Bus times and seen that they are on the X51 every weekday now
im confused (easy to do i know)
20 Hydrogen Buses, but ONLY 5 in use ??
Hydrogen refuelling points are not capable of charging at the speed required at the moment
Coventry to go ALL Electric but, NXWM say that only some will be charged not all, as they cannot afford to charge them, buses will swapped during the day for others with more charge ?
where i am confused is why order more Hydrogen buses if your going all electric ?
and if you cant afford to charge them why have them ?
as i said im just confused by things, i dont spend as much time around buses now as i used to in the 80's & 90's so this is now my only source of information
Quoteim confused (easy to do i know)
20 Hydrogen Buses, but ONLY 5 in use ??
Hydrogen refuelling points are not capable of charging at the speed required at the moment
Coventry to go ALL Electric but, NXWM say that only some will be charged not all, as they cannot afford to charge them, buses will swapped during the day for others with more charge ?
where i am confused is why order more Hydrogen buses if your going all electric ?
and if you cant afford to charge them why have them ?
as i said im just confused by things, i dont spend as much time around buses now as i used to in the 80's & 90's so this is now my only source of information
There's a lot of incorrect information in those statements
A quick look at Bustimes will confirm more than 5 out.
There is no problem with the speed of filling.
And as for the stupid statement about not being able to afford the electricity Every electric charged means a diesel doesn't need to be which is more expensive.
NX has never said it was going all electric, just fully zero emissions. Hydrogen buses are electric zero emission vehicles, they just generate their own electricity.
Cheers Tony
I did read that about it being too expensive to charge the electrics so only some will be charged not all, however having spent 2 hours this afternoon looking for the item i cant find it anywhere
The only problem with the electrics is the current electricity supply into the garage is only good enough for 61 to be charged. The supply is being upgraded next month and it is hoped to have 90 electrics in service in Coventry by the end of the year.
seen H1011 on Jennens Road earlier today
Quote from: AGPlaysMC on November 23, 2022, 09:30:26 PMseen H1011 on Jennens Road earlier today
They go there every day. Dead run to Tyseley to refuel and return back for the 51 in Birmingham and 997S from Old Oscott where they go straight across at the ring road onto Dartmouth Middleway instead.
And there was one recently with a few drivers on training them the route to Tyseley.
This has probably been answered before but anyway saw H1014 today in town at the 51 terminus and at the back was a pipe underneath expelling water, is this normal as this is the first time I have seen a hydrogen bus in service due to not needing to go into town much anyway.
QuoteThis has probably been answered before but anyway saw H1014 today in town at the 51 terminus and at the back was a pipe underneath expelling water, is this normal as this is the first time I have seen a hydrogen bus in service due to not needing to go into town much anyway.
The end product of hydrogen buses is water, so is normal
Quote from: Squiz1971 on November 30, 2022, 02:59:59 PMThis has probably been answered before but anyway saw H1014 today in town at the 51 terminus and at the back was a pipe underneath expelling water, is this normal as this is the first time I have seen a hydrogen bus in service due to not needing to go into town much anyway.
As normal fuels produce co2 during combustion hydrogen only produces water during combustion hence why its a green fuel
Quote from: BK63 YWP on November 30, 2022, 03:16:54 PMThe end product of hydrogen buses is water, so is normal
Thanks
@BK63 YWP I thought as much but wasn't fully sure if it was leaking water or whether it was the residue water being released and thanks @EK40
Quote from: Tony on November 07, 2022, 05:30:27 PMThe only problem with the electrics is the current electricity supply into the garage is only good enough for 61 to be charged. The supply is being upgraded next month and it is hoped to have 90 electrics in service in Coventry by the end of the year.
Cheers Tony
as i said i dont spend much time around buses anymore (mobility issues) im extremely grateful to you for all your efforts online, i rely on your info (and members of this site) to keep up with the goings on
I wa a little taken aback by the sight of three Hydroliners together in Carrs Lane on the 51 at about 2pm. One was H1011 and I think the others were H1003 and H1007.
Will the hydrogen buses be back out this week?
QuoteWill the hydrogen buses be back out this week?
Yes, 6 out this morning
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2023, 08:00:53 AMYes, 6 out this morning
Really. There's 5 platinums on 51 plus a single decker from what I've seen and bus times only showing 1 hydrogen bus out. I'll keep a lookout for the other 5.
QuoteReally. There's 5 platinums on 51 plus a single decker from what I've seen and bus times only showing 1 hydrogen bus out. I'll keep a lookout for the other 5.
Well I saw 3 myself this morning
H1016 ,
The announcements on this bus are playing up it dosent show next stop and dosent announce it also instead in announces somthing weird somthing 1 just thought to put it on here so maybe it can be updated.
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2023, 12:12:50 PMWell I saw 3 myself this morning
is there any truth to the rumour i heard at AG
NXWM are not going to continue with the Hydrogen Buses, when the current bunch are off lease they will not be replaced, Electric is the favored vehicle ??
Quote from: SUNDAY.BASH on April 17, 2023, 02:05:51 PMis there any truth to the rumour i heard at AG
NXWM are not going to continue with the Hydrogen Buses, when the current bunch are off lease they will not be replaced, Electric is the favored vehicle ??
considering theres already another 124 hydrogen buses on the way and systems undergoing upgrades in WA it would make not that much sense ditching them already, its more teething issues as most new technology getting introduced does.
Quote from: SUNDAY.BASH on April 17, 2023, 02:05:51 PMis there any truth to the rumour i heard at AG
NXWM are not going to continue with the Hydrogen Buses, when the current bunch are off lease they will not be replaced, Electric is the favored vehicle ??
I personally would not be surprised as the additional 124 are being part funded by government who could have stipulated timescales for them all to be delivered and in use.
I guess it will depend on the cost of the hydrogen?
Out of curiosity, is the Tyseley drogen facility used by other bus companies currently?
Quote from: suavegarv on May 04, 2023, 10:43:49 AMOut of curiosity, is the Tyseley drogen facility used by other bus companies currently?
It is used by Alexander Dennis to fuel their demonstrator, a couple of other Hydrogen companies who fill huge tankers there to take to their own sites and a few car drivers
Thanks for that. I saw an Arriva Merseyside Hydrogen bus (SK23 CMX) on a low loader midway along the Small Heath bypass this morning. It then turned right at the Golden Hillock Road island heading towards the Coventry Road (Asda island).
Quote from: SUNDAY.BASH on April 17, 2023, 02:05:51 PMis there any truth to the rumour i heard at AG
NXWM are not going to continue with the Hydrogen Buses, when the current bunch are off lease they will not be replaced, Electric is the favored vehicle ??
If true - Will be an absolute joke considering all the noise BCC made a few years ago about hydrogen and the Tyseley energy park.
Then again - Where is the infamous Sprint bus service that should be running cross Birmingham by now!?
Quote from: Tony on July 23, 2023, 09:17:26 AMAlthough it seems noteworthy, full use of the Hydrogens starts today and they will be on all Birmingham routes. Should be 6 out every Sunday (more once they are cleared for the X51 between Walsall and Cannock after a low hanging tree is trimmed), and every fit one out on weekdays up to a maximum of 17
Has the fuelling situation been sorted now?
QuoteHas the fuelling situation been sorted now?
They now have a deal with hydrogen prices like they do for diesel
Quote from: mranon on July 23, 2023, 07:29:03 PMHas the fuelling situation been sorted now?
It was sorted a few weeks back, but has had to wait for a timetable change so that the scheduling to Tyseley could be put into the running boards
Quote from: Tony on July 23, 2023, 07:57:07 PMIt was sorted a few weeks back, but has had to wait for a timetable change so that the scheduling to Tyseley could be put into the running boards
I presume having on-site refuelling facilities at Walsall garage is still some way off happening?
Quote from: Tony on July 23, 2023, 09:17:26 AMAlthough it seems noteworthy, full use of the Hydrogens starts today and they will be on all Birmingham routes. Should be 6 out every Sunday (more once they are cleared for the X51 between Walsall and Cannock after a low hanging tree is trimmed), and every fit one out on weekdays up to a maximum of 17
So I was just going to go down town to look out for a load of hydrogen buses and bustimes is only showing 6 out. Thought there might have been a load out.
I'm guessing the low hanging tree Tony is referring to is north of Cannock, unless he's referring to one outside Walsall depot, that the 32 I caught this morning clipped?
Quote from: PB50 on July 24, 2023, 08:47:35 AMSo I was just going to go down town to look out for a load of hydrogen buses and bustimes is only showing 6 out. Thought there might have been a load out.
Yesterday a problem tree was also found on the 997 route, so all running boards that were to be allocated Hydrogens had to revert to platinums until either a) running boards are revised or b) the tree is trimmed
Quote from: Tony on July 24, 2023, 05:41:03 PMYesterday a problem tree was also found on the 997 route, so all running boards that were to be allocated Hydrogens had to revert to platinums until either a) running boards are revised or b) the tree is trimmed
What's the difference between an E400 getting bashed by a tree and a Hydrogen?
Quote from: Gareth on July 24, 2023, 07:06:51 PMWhat's the difference between an E400 getting bashed by a tree and a Hydrogen?
about 4 inches (14'2" to 14'6"), and the Hydrogens have the safety release valves on the roof
Quote from: Tony on July 24, 2023, 05:41:03 PMYesterday a problem tree was also found on the 997 route, so all running boards that were to be allocated Hydrogens had to revert to platinums until either a) running boards are revised or b) the tree is trimmed
It's almost ironic, that the one thing preventing zero-emission buses from being used on a route, is something that loves Co2. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Tony on July 24, 2023, 05:41:03 PMYesterday a problem tree was also found on the 997 route, so all running boards that were to be allocated Hydrogens had to revert to platinums until either a) running boards are revised or b) the tree is trimmed
The problem tree on the 997 route is presumably in the Frampton Way area of Pheasey then as NX put a tweet out yesterday saying the 997 wasn't serving it due to problem trees?
Quote from: 2206 on July 24, 2023, 07:55:57 PMThe problem tree on the 997 route is presumably in the Frampton Way area of Pheasey then as NX put a tweet out yesterday saying the 997 wasn't serving it due to problem trees?
Presumably because its easier to just temporarily divert a service for the day than to have those vehicles taken out of service to be swapped over at the garage.
Quote from: 2206 on July 24, 2023, 07:55:57 PMThe problem tree on the 997 route is presumably in the Frampton Way area of Pheasey then as NX put a tweet out yesterday saying the 997 wasn't serving it due to problem trees?
The offending tree on Frampton Way has been an issue for sometime, always bashes buses going past it, but now they are only bothered now they have Hydrogens running along it. Let alone all the other roads that have tree's bashing buses that they obviously aren't interested in..
Quote from: Jack on July 24, 2023, 09:38:58 PMThe offending tree on Frampton Way has been an issue for sometime, always bashes buses going past it, but now they are only bothered now they have Hydrogens running along it. Let alone all the other roads that have tree's bashing buses that they obviously aren't interested in..
You clearly didn't read Tony's comment about them being taller and something on the roof of the hydrogen vehicles
So this apparent tree that's causing issues has either been sorted or they are continuing to get bashed as the 997's got Hydogens on it this morning!
Quote from: Jack on July 25, 2023, 06:58:15 AMSo this apparent tree that's causing issues has either been sorted or they are continuing to get bashed as the 997's got Hydogens on it this morning!
Yes, the council agreed to sort the tree out. The one on the X51 is harder to sort as it is growing on private land, not the roadway.
in times gone by, companys used to have a tree lopper, obviously used to trim over hanging branches, this time of year theres are several on the Warwick Road (Solihull) 7 star side, and used get a few on Station Road, Knowle, but as ive not been that way in a few years now (not since NXWM pulled out of Dorridge) i dont know if this is still the case,
Theres also an occasional diversion route used in Birmingham on City Road, im told buses using it MUST NOT use Gillott Rd / Portland Road due to possible over hanging trees, so they turn right out of Gillott Rd towards City Rd then normal line of route (11A stop almost on the corner)
How come no hydrogen buses out today?
Quote from: PB50 on July 26, 2023, 07:47:54 AMHow come no hydrogen buses out today?
I understand there has been some problem at the Tyseley fuelling station which means that they haven't been able to be sent out in service.
Quote from: D10 on July 26, 2023, 08:42:34 PMI understand there has been some problem at the Tyseley fuelling station which means that they haven't been able to be sent out in service.
Oh I see. Thanks for that.
Getting there!
Double figures on the number of Hydrogens in service for the first time today
H1001, H1002, H1003, H1004, H1007, H1008, H1010, H1011, h1013, H1018 all out
Quote from: Tony on July 27, 2023, 09:01:26 AMGetting there!
Double figures on the number of Hydrogens in service for the first time today
H1001, H1002, H1003, H1004, H1007, H1008, H1010, H1011, h1013, H1018 all out
On Tuesday bustimes was saying 11. Today only 8 tracking out of the 10 on bustimes.
Quote from: PB50 on July 27, 2023, 11:24:37 AMOn Tuesday bustimes was saying 11. Today only 8 tracking out of the 10 on bustimes.
Yes, H1001 & 1008 aren't tarcking
The 997 is operating with all Hydrogen vehicles!
Quote from: West_Brom/WalsallBusGeek on July 29, 2023, 09:22:04 AMThe 997 is operating with all Hydrogen vehicles!
Best day for the hydrogen buses being out today. Bustimes showing 13 in total currently but more due out.
Would it be logical to assume that a hydrogen including a refuel (or if not if possible) could manage to do the longest board on the 51? Maybe do the 51s well into the night?
Quote from: BK63 YWP on July 29, 2023, 06:47:02 PMWould it be logical to assume that a hydrogen including a refuel (or if not if possible) could manage to do the longest board on the 51? Maybe do the 51s well into the night?
They run on separate running boards; allocation of some boards are dependant on the percentage of fuel available - where there's a minimum % required - presumably to last a day's service.
Quote from: CL on July 29, 2023, 07:21:35 PMThey run on separate running boards; allocation of some boards are dependant on the percentage of fuel available - where there's a minimum % required - presumably to last a day's service.
Not to last a day's service, the fuelling is done through the day, so some have a lot more mileage before fuelling than others
None out today I see looking at bustimes this morning.
16 out today, just 3, 9, 14 & 16 in garage
Quote from: Tony on August 01, 2023, 08:05:30 AM16 out today, just 3, 9, 14 & 16 in garage
Nice to finally see the majority out on the road, I assume no buses will be transferred / withdrawn from Walsall currently until any potential service enhancements are known in Sept?
Quote from: winston on August 01, 2023, 11:42:11 AMNice to finally see the majority out on the road, I assume no buses will be transferred / withdrawn from Walsall currently until any potential service enhancements are known in Sept?
1003 is now out having replaced 1007. The only Hydrogen board currently being covered by a diesel is the one 6744 is on. A couple of Walsall's Tridents are on their last legs so may die sooner than later
Is there a reason why the 51/997 aren't being allocated hydrogens on every run anymore?
Quote from: GoldenSquid on August 21, 2023, 12:36:21 PMIs there a reason why the 51/997 aren't being allocated hydrogens on every run anymore?
Others have mentioned it-possibly Tony at least-that they need to be refueled during the day.
Quote from: markcf83 on August 21, 2023, 03:25:11 PMOthers have mentioned it-possibly Tony at least-that they need to be refueled during the day.
Yeah, I noticed them going to Tysley in the middle of there run. But a week or 2 ago there was 10-15 out each day and now it's back down to 4-6
Quote from: GoldenSquid on August 21, 2023, 05:27:43 PMYeah, I noticed them going to Tysley in the middle of there run. But a week or 2 ago there was 10-15 out each day and now it's back down to 4-6
There's 9 out!
It was just one of those days when over the weekend a couple of defects showed up and the Wrights engineer based at Walsall doesn't do weekends so they weren't available this morning
Quote from: Tony on August 21, 2023, 05:56:09 PMThere's 9 out!
It was just one of those days when over the weekend a couple of defects showed up and the Wrights engineer based at Walsall doesn't do weekends so they weren't available this morning
Oh that's why there was none out yesterday then.
Quote from: Tony on August 21, 2023, 05:56:09 PMThere's 9 out!
It was just one of those days when over the weekend a couple of defects showed up and the Wrights engineer based at Walsall doesn't do weekends so they weren't available this morning
Oh okay, that's good. I thought there was an issue with the hydrogen refuelling.
I take it there's been problems on the 51 route today as majority of hydrogen buses haven't tracked since early morning and this afternoon around 2.30 there was 5 sitting in town.
Quote from: PB50 on September 08, 2023, 02:45:16 PMI take it there's been problems on the 51 route today as majority of hydrogen buses haven't tracked since early morning and this afternoon around 2.30 there was 5 sitting in town.
Slightly related but otherwise not so,most of the Hydrogen buses in London used by Metroline weren't out yesterday. I haven't looked today as yet but would imagine it's still the case.
Quote from: markcf83 on September 08, 2023, 03:37:10 PMSlightly related but otherwise not so,most of the Hydrogen buses in London used by Metroline weren't out yesterday. I haven't looked today as yet but would imagine it's still the case.
Could the heat be playing havoc with them
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on September 08, 2023, 03:50:41 PMCould the heat be playing havoc with them
No, It was a problem at the fuelling station
Quote from: Tony on September 08, 2023, 04:06:54 PMNo, It was a problem at the fuelling station
Yes thought that might be the reason. Not good for passengers though when this happens.
The hydrogen experiment would be better if it curtailed now, it been an absolute joke, can't all be available all at once, who in the right mind would have all these assets and be able to only use half of them, fuelling is a also a joke, they are fast approaching 3 years old and I would love to see an availability for service/not available analysis
It seems to be one after another with these.
Not enough drivers type trained
fuelling station not ready
Sent back to manufacturer for fault to be corrected
Not enough staff to refuel at Walsall
Fuel too expensive
Overhanging trees
Problems at the fuelling station.
What will the next excuse be?
NX and the other partners involved must be really frustrated at what a lemon of a 'product' they've tried to introduce. A shame as they do seem like nice vehicles. When they run.
The PVR could also be reduced if these were disposed of, but I guess nobody would want them anyway.
I wonder if they said the same about petrol buses when they first appeared in the 1900s. 'Nothing but problems - they should bring back the horses!' But the hydrogen fuel cell vehices are insanely expensive, though owned by Birmingham City Council. I hope the problems are worked through.
Quote from: Stevo on September 09, 2023, 08:07:08 AMI wonder if they said the same about petrol buses when they first appeared in the 1900s. 'Nothing but problems - they should bring back the horses!' But the hydrogen fuel cell vehices are insanely expensive, though owned by Birmingham City Council. I hope the problems are worked through.
Hmmm.
'Owned by Birmingham City Council'
Considering this week's events, I wonder?
The hydrogens are lovely to ride, like the Electrics they are the smoothest ride as a passenger.
Only downfall if the crap seating downstairs, the 51 passengers are used to them, but whenever I've caught them on the 997 passengers moan about them...
i really hope JCB/WRIGHTBUS are given time to iron out issues, they have developed more efficient engines, it would be nice to see a British COMPANY make a success of hydrogen rather than the chinese take over with BYD products.
If hydrogen works its thousands of British jobs, Lord Bamford's companies haven't had bajillons pounds in funding from the government either.
Didn't I hear something about an order for another hundred of these? Hopefully before these are built, NX can figure out the infrastructure needed to actually deploy them successfully.
I've noticed recently that the hydrogen buses are being used less on the 997 and none are being used on a Sunday. Anyone know why?
Basically there a waste of time, see the posts above for the excuses.
On the most recent photo of a Hydrogen vehicle, I noticed the seating listed at 38/25 - 63 seats in total.
What is the reason for these having lower seating capacities than the equivalent diesel bus?
Quote from: Mayfield on September 10, 2023, 07:34:25 PMBasically they're a waste of time, see the posts above for the excuses.
Most the reasons aren't even NX's fault...
Quote from: j789 on September 10, 2023, 07:37:33 PMOn the most recent photo of a Hydrogen vehicle, I noticed the seating listed at 38/25 - 63 seats in total.
What is the reason for these having lower seating capacities than the equivalent diesel bus?
Batteries and hydrogen tanks?
Quote from: j789 on September 10, 2023, 07:37:33 PMOn the most recent photo of a Hydrogen vehicle, I noticed the seating listed at 38/25 - 63 seats in total.
What is the reason for these having lower seating capacities than the equivalent diesel bus?
It must be to do with the batteries and/or hydrogen tanks, the Electrics are only H39/26 - 65 seats in total. That's 8 seats less than a Platinum and 12 seats less than an Enviro. So on a service which runs every 10 minutes (6 buses an hour), that's between 48 and 72 seats less an hour for Electric buses and between 60 and 84 seats less an hour for Hydrogen buses. A big drop, some services
may need frequency increases but with the drivers shortage I can't see that happening for sometime yet. I have that both the Hydrogen and Electrics are a pleasure to ride on and I like them very much.
The lower upper saloon seating capacities of these and the electrics are particularly surprising as what additional space is needed upstairs that takes the space of 5 seats?
Quote from: j789 on September 10, 2023, 07:37:33 PMOn the most recent photo of a Hydrogen vehicle, I noticed the seating listed at 38/25 - 63 seats in total.
What is the reason for these having lower seating capacities than the equivalent diesel bus?
Weight of batteries and hydrogen tanks.
Batteries are getting denser more efficient thus holding more juice in the same space, the next generation of electric/hydrogen buses seating levels could match that of diesel buses one day, Tesla battery packs are becoming smaller as the efficiency improves that equates to vehicle being lighter and improving range.
Quote from: 2900 on September 11, 2023, 09:37:47 AMBatteries are getting denser more efficient thus holding more juice in the same space, the next generation of electric/hydrogen buses seating levels could match that of diesel buses one day, Tesla battery packs are becoming smaller as the efficiency improves that equates to vehicle being lighter and improving range.
The Wrights Electroliner has exactly the same seating capacity & layout as a diesel streetdeck
Quote from: Tony on September 11, 2023, 09:59:36 AMThe Wrights Electroliner has exactly the same seating capacity & layout as a diesel streetdeck
Tony could you remind me which of the two Streetdecks hydrogen/ electric you thought were cracking drives from drivers point of view. seems like a no brain'er from seating capacity point Wrightbus wins but there are other factors like how efficient it is,
how many kwh is used per mile between ADL BYD systems and Wrightbus
No,a shortage of hydrogen fuel.
Quote from: 2900 on September 11, 2023, 10:13:27 AMTony could you remind me which of the two Streetdecks hydrogen/ electric you thought were cracking drives from drivers point of view. seems like a no brain'er from seating capacity point Wrightbus wins but there are other factors like how efficient it is,
how many kwh is used per mile between ADL BYD systems and Wrightbus
I really like driving both. The electroliner has a more modern dash than the hydroliner, but they both perform virtually the same. The only difference really is the Hydroliner generates electricity whereas the Electroliner stores it, but same drivetrain.
Mentioned in the Public pack agenda document for the latest WMCA meeting is the news that the 124 buses in the ZEBRA scheme will now comprise 24 electric articulated vehicles (changed from hydrogen) and 100 hydrogen vehicles. The Department For Transport has extended the project delivery deadline to May 2026.
100 hydrogens, 50 in service and 50 parked at the depot then.
Quote from: Mayfield on September 16, 2023, 02:43:29 PM100 hydrogens, 50 in service and 50 parked at the depot then.
Very easy to make a silly comment like that. If what you stated was likely to happen then why would an order for Hydrogen buses be placed ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on September 16, 2023, 03:40:26 PMVery easy to make a silly comment like that. If what you stated was likely to happen then why would an order for Hydrogen buses be placed ?
To be fair to the quoted poster, BCC still spent however many millions on the current hydrogens despite the infrastructure being miles off and an EIS being virtually doomed from the start.
It's not at all a silly comment at all when those pushing the buttons in govt (local and national) are aimlessly spending taxpayer cash to hit environmental targets and have something they can claim credit for. The electric rollout in Coventry has worked seemingly wonderfully, hydrogen evidently isn't quite there yet, and to be fair might not be by the time this next batch arrive.
Quote from: cvbususer on September 16, 2023, 04:37:47 PMTo be fair to the quoted poster, BCC still spent however many millions on the current hydrogens despite the infrastructure being miles off and an EIS being virtually doomed from the start.
It's not at all a silly comment at all when those pushing the buttons in govt (local and national) are aimlessly spending taxpayer cash to hit environmental targets and have something they can claim credit for. The electric rollout in Coventry has worked seemingly wonderfully, hydrogen evidently isn't quite there yet, and to be fair might not be by the time this next batch arrive.
Well if that's the case why have they been ordered ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on September 16, 2023, 04:54:13 PMWell if that's the case why have they been ordered ?
It's far easier to spend other peoples' money for the sake of spending it. :azn: We already saw this with BCC spending the funding they received on this first batch, without ensuring the fuelling infrastructure would be in place and fully functional at the time of delivery.
Besides, by the time these new hydrogen buses are delivered, Walsall garage will hopefully have their own hydrogen refuelling facility installed, rather than having to trek over to Tyseley every day.
Therefore it would make sense if these 100 hydrogen buses were for use at Walsall.
Quote from: Stu on September 16, 2023, 05:01:31 PMIt's far easier to spend other peoples' money for the sake of spending it. :azn: We already saw this with BCC spending the funding they received on this first batch, without ensuring the fuelling infrastructure would be in place and fully functional at the time of delivery.
Besides, by the time these new hydrogen buses are delivered, Walsall garage will hopefully have their own hydrogen refuelling facility installed, rather than having to trek over to Tyseley every day.
Therefore it would make sense if these 100 hydrogen buses were for use at Walsall.
I agree entirely
I'd like some on AG - a stone's throw away from the Tyseley facility. On the 4 would be nice...
Quote from: Steve3229vp on September 16, 2023, 04:54:13 PMWell if that's the case why have they been ordered ?
I suspect if you look hard enough you'll find a similar reason to why BCC are essentially going bust.
Because the idea is nice, but the reality hasn't actually been thought through properly by anyone (or at least hasn't in the past.... Maybe this time will be different)
Quote from: cvbususer on September 16, 2023, 06:31:41 PMI suspect if you look hard enough you'll find a similar reason to why BCC are essentially going bust.
Because the idea is nice, but the reality hasn't actually been thought through properly by anyone (or at least hasn't in the past.... Maybe this time will be different)
The reason BCC are going bust is nothing of the sort, more to do with equal pay claims
Quote from: cvbususer on September 16, 2023, 06:31:41 PMI suspect if you look hard enough you'll find a similar reason to why BCC are essentially going bust.
Quote from: Tony on September 16, 2023, 06:35:52 PMThe reason BCC are going bust is nothing of the sort, more to do with equal pay claims
BCC applied for government funding which they won and then used to buy the first batch of hydrogen buses.
I presume NX lease those vehicles from BCC?
The hydrogens are nearly 3 years old and you can't get them all in service at once, giving numerous reasons including the fuelling facilities, what makes you think it going to get any better in the future, hydrogen is not the way forward, the reason is because the people who think they wonderful are the ones that made the poor decisions from the start and bury there heads in the sand and try and justify the decisions, end of shift for electrics park it, plug it and forget it until the morning and it's considerably cheaper with hydrogen likely to get more expensive.
When are the 100 due to be delivered, which depot/deports are going to operate them and what facilities are in place or being built ?
Quote from: Mayfield on September 16, 2023, 07:22:43 PMThe hydrogens are nearly 3 years old and you can't get them all in service at once, giving numerous reasons including the fuelling facilities, what makes you think it going to get any better in the future, hydrogen is not the way forward, the reason is because the people who think they wonderful are the ones that made the poor decisions from the start and bury there heads in the sand and try and justify the decisions, end of shift for electrics park it, plug it and forget it until the morning and it's considerably cheaper with hydrogen likely to get more expensive.
I believe it has always been the intention that hydrogen refuelling facilities would be installed at the depot, that will be the 'game-changer' for NX.
I would like to think that is being factored in to any future plans.
How are hydrogen powered vehicles performing elsewhere in the UK?
There's a batch in Aberdeen, if I recall correctly.
Quote from: Mayfield on September 16, 2023, 07:22:43 PMThe hydrogens are nearly 3 years old and you can't get them all in service at once, giving numerous reasons including the fuelling facilities, what makes you think it going to get any better in the future, hydrogen is not the way forward, the reason is because the people who think they wonderful are the ones that made the poor decisions from the start and bury there heads in the sand and try and justify the decisions, end of shift for electrics park it, plug it and forget it until the morning and it's considerably cheaper with hydrogen likely to get more expensive.
Quote from: MW on September 16, 2023, 07:34:05 PMHow are hydrogen powered vehicles performing elsewhere in the UK?
There's a batch in Aberdeen, if I recall correctly.
There's only one of the 20 currently not seeing service
Metroline have a batch in service, Metrobus have single deckers at Crawley and the first Alexander Dennis ones are currently being prepared in Merseyside
QuoteHow are hydrogen powered vehicles performing elsewhere in the UK?
There's a batch in Aberdeen, if I recall correctly.
I was up there last month and again, hardly any were out. Don't know if it has improved since
Maybe only 1 not seeing service, but that's not the point you cannot get all available buses in service at the same time.
Quote from: Mayfield on September 16, 2023, 07:25:33 PMWhen are the 100 due to be delivered, which depot/deports are going to operate them and what facilities are in place or being built ?
I honestly can't see them coming.
Quote from: BN on September 17, 2023, 06:44:05 AMI honestly can't see them coming.
I'm hoping those 24 articulated things don't come
Quote from: Mayfield on September 16, 2023, 08:45:28 PMMaybe only 1 not seeing service, but that's not the point you cannot get all available buses in service at the same time.
Most days last week every Hydrogen running board was allocated a hydrogen
So how many running boards are there 9 or 10, so that's not really a true reflection of the situation, if you've got 20 buses you should have 19 boards, also it's all about clean air and they
Don't even run on a Sunday.
Quote from: Mayfield on September 17, 2023, 10:12:24 AMSo how many running boards are there 9 or 10, so that's not really a true reflection of the situation, if you've got 20 buses you should have 19 boards, also it's all about clean air and they
Don't even run on a Sunday.
13 all day + 2 peak
Quote from: Mayfield on September 17, 2023, 10:12:24 AMSo how many running boards are there 9 or 10, so that's not really a true reflection of the situation, if you've got 20 buses you should have 19 boards, also it's all about clean air and they
Don't even run on a Sunday.
Been a few more out last week compared to other weeks and was more out yesterday than previous few Saturdays but you are right when you say none out on a Sunday after they were advertising that there would be minimum 6 out on a Sunday in that article.
10 out Saturday, let see what happens during the week coming shall we.
Quote from: Mayfield on September 17, 2023, 12:23:34 PM10 out Saturday, let see what happens during the week coming shall we.
There were 12 out yesterday which is the allocated number, someone else who likes posting guesses / Bustimes as facts
H1002, 1003, 1005, 1006, 1008, 1010, 1011, 1013, 1014, 1015, 1018 & 1019
12 hydrogens currently out in service.
1
Quote from: PB50 on September 18, 2023, 09:05:58 AM12 hydrogens currently out in service.
13 are out.
I presume you are counting of Bustimes and ignoring h1008
Quote from: Tony on September 18, 2023, 09:46:47 AM113 are out.
I presume you are counting of Bustimes and ignoring h1008
Partly. Haven't seen that one yet but saw most of them this morning whilst in town.
Hydrogen operating on the 934 a few days ago.. will we begin to see them on more routes around Walsall?
Quote from: West_Brom/WalsallBusGeek on September 21, 2023, 07:15:37 AMHydrogen operating on the 934 a few days ago.. will we begin to see them on more routes around Walsall?
Far as I know they can only be used on Birmingham routes i.e 51, X51, 934/5 and 997. Maybe in the future this will change.
They
Quote from: West_Brom/WalsallBusGeek on September 21, 2023, 07:15:37 AMHydrogen operating on the 934 a few days ago.. will we begin to see them on more routes around Walsall?
do the same running boards every day which includes some journeys on the 934
@Tony how are the Hydrogens performing on fuel consumption? Are they working to theoretical and anticipated physical consumption against the pre-service testing?
Quote from: Wumpty on September 21, 2023, 11:06:59 AM@Tony how are the Hydrogens performing on fuel consumption? Are they working to theoretical and anticipated physical consumption against the pre-service testing?
Yes fuel consumption isn't a problem at all, just getting the fuel into the vehicles sometimes!
Quote from: Tony on September 21, 2023, 11:25:17 AMYes fuel consumption isn't a problem at all, just getting the fuel into the vehicles sometimes!
Always a challenge with any new fuel type or refuelling system - the gas buses were certainly a challenge too!
Pleased to see the Hydrogens performing as expected!
And as previously mentioned - plenty of them about again today . [ And I have still not seen them all ! ]
I noticed no hydrogen buses out today. Is that due to refueling issues?
Quote from: Wumpty on September 21, 2023, 09:12:02 PMAlways a challenge with any new fuel type or refuelling system - the gas buses were certainly a challenge too!
Pleased to see the Hydrogens performing as expected!
Does that one converted gas to diesel bus still exist in the training fleet?
Quote from: PB50 on September 30, 2023, 09:50:22 AMI noticed no hydrogen buses out today. Is that due to refueling issues?
Isn't it about time this project was abandoned. It's clearly not working.
Quote from: Gareth on September 30, 2023, 11:08:19 PMIsn't it about time this project was abandoned. It's clearly not working.
Certainly seems that way. What a waste of money
Quote from: Trident 4194 on October 01, 2023, 09:14:40 AMCertainly seems that way. What a waste of money
Agreed. Seems that electric is the future power source for NX buses. Could the hydrogen buses be converted to electric?
If you do some research about using hydrogen as a fuel source it is agreed by a wide range of sources that it will play a key role in the future. It is not a 'failure' as such, it's just I think the council was in so much of a rush to look green and wanted positive headlines, that they jumped the gun with hydrogen buses.
They should have waited a couple of years until all of the necessary infrastructure was in place and a secure supply of hydrogen could be sourced, rather than rush the introduction of these buses leading to all these issues.
I can't imagine why they would be converted to electric as that is admitting failure and hydrogen will be used on a larger scale in the not too distant future. They just need to maybe aim to use 50% of the resource daily to conserve supplies and mean that at least some of the vehicles get used on a daily basis - no point having 100% out one day then none the next.
Why did they give up on gas?
I know they had issues with the bus tanks at one point, but the only other thing that springs to mind was probably the price?
If I am correct in thinking that these Walsall buses have to be filled up in Tyseley then that makes no sense whatsoever. Surely would have been better to base these at AG?
What is the point in planning to use half the fleet one day and the other half the next day, if you can't use your resources all the time then it's pointless having them, and I know off topic but what about the 30 electrics built and ready for use months ago, surely Perry Barr should have been built to full electric capability and these buses could have been in service months ago, I guess NX are/have paid for these already.
Quote from: Mayfield on October 01, 2023, 11:59:38 AMWhat is the point in planning to use half the fleet one day and the other half the next day, if you can't use your resources all the time then it's pointless having them, and I know off topic but what about the 30 electrics built and ready for use months ago, surely Perry Barr should have been built to full electric capability and these buses could have been in service months ago, I guess NX are/have paid for these already.
Zenobe own the buses, NX are only leasing them, as they have yet be delivered, I very much doubt NX are paying anything.
Quote from: B.C Driver on October 01, 2023, 11:56:00 AMIf I am correct in thinking that these Walsall buses have to be filled up in Tyseley then that makes no sense whatsoever. Surely would have been better to base these at AG?
The intention has always been for Walsall garage to have its own hydrogen fuelling facility on-site.
I don't know how far this is off from actually happening, but one would hope it will be ahead of any further ordered hydrogen vehicles being delivered.
Quote from: Mayfield on October 01, 2023, 11:59:38 AMI know off topic but what about the 30 electrics built and ready for use months ago, surely Perry Barr should have been built to full electric capability and these buses could have been in service months ago, I guess NX are/have paid for these already.
Perry Barr was built for capability, however adding to Winston's reply, Zenobe are also responsible for providing and installing the necessary charging equipment, without which the new electric vehicles cannot be delivered.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 01, 2023, 09:49:14 AMAgreed. Seems that electric is the future power source for NX buses. Could the hydrogen buses be converted to electric?
If electric is the future power source for NX buses then let's hope the future of buses isn't NX!
Doing some googling I was surprised that there appear to be only twelve hydrogen fuelling stations in the whole of the UK, actually fewer than in 2021 because Shell closed theirs. This may be out of date of course.
It is notable that about a week ago, new EU legislation came in requiring all EU member states to set up hydrogen filling stations for light and heavy vehicles in every "urban node" - 424 selected major cities with ports, airports or rail terminals - and also every 200KM along the roads that connect them by 2030.
Care to bet on a similar UK government initiative? (rhetorical question)
Quote from: B.C Driver on October 01, 2023, 11:56:00 AMIf I am correct in thinking that these Walsall buses have to be filled up in Tyseley then that makes no sense whatsoever. Surely would have been better to base these at AG?
the idea is that walsall will eventually have its own hydrogen facilities and also you wont need to train a bunch of drivers on all the walsall city routes and the streetdecks since walsall already has both
The hydrogens are nearly 3 years old and they haven't got a hydrogen facility up and running in that time is pathetic.
My point was Perry Barr could have been built with electric charging capacity, it was in the planning and built stage for years and could easily have be adapted as it so much more difficult
To retro fit, again pathetic.
Sure zenobe wont be sitting on buses ready for use and not being paid for them.
Quote from: Stu on October 01, 2023, 12:27:02 PMPerry Barr was built for capability, however adding to Winston's reply, Zenobe are also responsible for providing and installing the necessary charging equipment, without which the new electric vehicles cannot be delivered.
The waiting time for charging kit to fit in garages from the manufacturers is one of the main delays for electrics.
As you can imagine it is in a lot of demand at the moment. There's a couple of hundred electrics in London parked up at the moment for the very same reason.
Quote from: Mayfield on October 01, 2023, 01:32:19 PMThe hydrogens are nearly 3 years old and they haven't got a hydrogen facility up and running in that time is pathetic.
My point was Perry Barr could have been built with electric charging capacity, it was in the planning and built stage for years and could easily have be adapted as it so much more difficult
To retro fit, again pathetic.
Sure zenobe wont be sitting on buses ready for use and not being paid for them.
Nice to see another ill informed keyboard warrier expert.
Perry Barr was built with electric charging capacity
Zenobe only get paid rental costs for vehicles once it has its first six weekly inspection at the receiving garage.
Looks like hydrogens are not in service again today as I keep seeing platinum buses on the 51.
I am no expert, but if most of the hydrogen buses are parked in the depot again this morning and also noticed a number of tridents been retired recently at Walsall, which I know is to be expected due to their age etc...It must make things tight there especially during peak times Monday to Friday when there is school services to run also etc.
Last week on my way home from work I counted roughly 14/15 hydrogens out, which was good to see. But when they're not out for what ever reason and have to use other buses, it surely must make things tight at Walsall, regarding how many buses they have spare to use just parked up in case they can't get the hydrogen buses out.
Then gas compressors at the fuelling station have failed which is the problem
Quote from: Tony on October 02, 2023, 10:22:50 AMThen gas compressors at the fuelling station have failed which is the problem
So this is another infrastructure issue beyond the control of NXWM.
Quote from: Wumpty on October 02, 2023, 01:54:14 PMSo this is another infrastructure issue beyond the control of NXWM.
Yes, completely out of NX hands, and also not anything to do with the quality or the physical operation of the vehicles themselves
Quote from: Tony on October 02, 2023, 01:55:43 PMYes, completely out of NX hands, and also not anything to do with the quality or the physical operation of the vehicles themselves
Exactly my *point
@Tony - NX are doing everything they are expected to do (and in some cases, above and beyond too!)
*Keyboard warriors, please take note!
Quote from: Wumpty on October 02, 2023, 02:16:44 PMExactly my *point @Tony - NX are doing everything they are expected to do (and in some cases, above and beyond too!)
*Keyboard warriors, please take note!
Expect some loan buses appearing on Walsall routes tomorrow
Quote from: Tony on October 02, 2023, 02:25:44 PMExpect some loan buses appearing on Walsall routes tomorrow
Already happened today on the 7 service this afternoon 2149 from Coventry.
Quote from: PB50 on October 02, 2023, 06:20:15 PMAlready happened today on the 7 service this afternoon 2149 from Coventry.
Could be up to 14 there tomorrow, so expect all those without anywhere else to go to be hanging around Walsall
Could Dundee use any of these single deckers surplus to requirements up there?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on October 02, 2023, 07:51:14 PMCould Dundee use any of these single deckers surplus to requirements up there?
I don't think McGill's would want to use any NX vehicles.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on October 02, 2023, 07:51:14 PMCould Dundee use any of these single deckers surplus to requirements up there?
Which surplus single decks?
Coventry are only able to loan buses because they have 10 to many until the X1 arrives, and when it does BC routes get another frequency increase, so BC will not have any spares
Quote from: Trident 4194 on October 02, 2023, 07:51:14 PMCould Dundee use any of these single deckers surplus to requirements up there?
Dundee hasnt been an nx operation since 2020 mate
and mcgills has basically mothballed half the ex nx buses anyway lol
So what buses are left up there that were NXWM? And what is the company now that operates?
Quote from: Bus_user_jay on October 03, 2023, 12:28:24 AMSo what buses are left up there that were NXWM? And what is the company now that operates?
Please continue any discussion about Xplore Dundee in the appropriate topic.
Xplore Dundee was acquired by McGills in December 2020:
https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?msg=286722
Just seen H1020 coming through town. Does this mean they will be back in service tomorrow?
Quote from: PB50 on October 04, 2023, 12:32:10 PMJust seen H1020 coming through town. Does this mean they will be back in service tomorrow?
I saw H1019 today in the city centre.
Why haven't many/any hydrogens been operating for the last couple days?
Quote from: West_Brom/WalsallBusGeek on October 05, 2023, 04:54:04 PMWhy haven't many/any hydrogens been operating for the last couple days?
The same reason they barely have for the last 2 years
- 'fuelling issues'
Quote from: Owen on October 05, 2023, 04:58:10 PMThe same reason they barely have for the last 2 years
- 'fuelling issues'
Ah okay. Disappointing really.
if a company like zenobe handled the hydrogen buses i wonder if there would be issues like we are seeing, i doubt it, yes i understand zenobe are BEV company.
Quote from: 2900 on October 06, 2023, 10:09:27 AMif a company like zenobe handled the hydrogen buses i wonder if there would be issues like we are seeing, i doubt it, yes i understand zenobe are BEV company.
Would be exactly the same. ITM who produce the hydrogen would still have had a compressor failure
I see there's no hydrogens out again today, is it another fuel station issues ?
I have just noticed in the West Midlands Combined Authority Board minutes of its September meeting (here (https://governance.wmca.org.uk/documents/g829/Public%20reports%20pack%2015th-Sep-2023%2011.00%20WMCA), page 18) that the 24 articulated buses for Sprint will now be electric instead of hydrogen.
The WMCA received approval from Department for Transport Ministers in July for the change. The delivery timeline for the full project has been extended to May 2026. The full project includes the 100 hydrogen non-articulated buses which are still on track to be hydrogen.
I cannot find any announcement about this - although I'm not surprised! Regrettably there are still fundamentals that we don't know. Is there an even just aspirational timescale for Sprint to actually start?
The "aspirational timescale" is 2192 at the rate they're going.
People in Walsall are complaining about the phase 2 of bus improvement measures.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/anger-over-sprint-bus-scheme-27871300
Sound like a good decision to swop hydrogen to electric, just need the the other 100 decision going the same way and the get shot of the 20 already in service and reliability
of buses fit for service will go up.
Quote from: Mayfield on October 14, 2023, 11:18:22 PMSound like a good decision to swop hydrogen to electric, just need the the other 100 decision going the same way and the get shot of the 20 already in service and reliability
of buses fit for service will go up.
hopefully if The Hydrogens are still leased from BCC then likely they will be sold to raise money, in theory a better idea than the Electrics as i think they do more mileage, but lack of availability & restrictions over where they can & cannot operate
The Technology is too advanced too soon, Bio buses seemed a good idea, but also seems to have quietly died a death ??
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 18, 2023, 06:02:09 PMhopefully if The Hydrogens are still leased from BCC then likely they will be sold to raise money, in theory a better idea than the Electrics as i think they do more mileage, but lack of availability & restrictions over where they can & cannot operate
The Technology is too advanced too soon, Bio buses seemed a good idea, but also seems to have quietly died a death ??
Bio buses are not zero emissions
Currently hard to spot a hydrogen this morning. Seems to be getting less and less again.
Can we all just agree that a lack of Hydrogens out on service is no longer noteworthy, we all know there are problems, most of them well documented and largely out of NX's hands.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 19, 2023, 08:50:00 AMCan we all just agree that a lack of Hydrogens out on service is no longer noteworthy, we all know there are problems, most of them well documented and largely out of NX's hands.
Yes, ITM are trying to fix the compressors as we speak, so don't want any fuelling done today
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 18, 2023, 06:02:09 PMhopefully if The Hydrogens are still leased from BCC then likely they will be sold to raise money, in theory a better idea than the Electrics as i think they do more mileage, but lack of availability & restrictions over where they can & cannot operate
The Technology is too advanced too soon, Bio buses seemed a good idea, but also seems to have quietly died a death ??
If Birmingham City Council sold them the only buyers would be the ones with the kit to fuel them. London is out as they aren't London spec so the only buyer would be NXWM methinks.
Will Walsall get it own refueling station for the hydrogens instead of driving down to tysley to fuel up
Quote from: Solo1 on October 22, 2023, 10:05:45 AMWill Walsall get it own refueling station for the hydrogens instead of driving down to tysley to fuel up
Thats been the plan all along
I think it's one of Baldrick's cunning plans.
Quote from: EK40 on October 22, 2023, 10:30:39 AMThats been the plan all along
Doubt it now they built new houses around the place
Quote from: karl724223 on October 22, 2023, 02:41:22 PMDoubt it now they built new houses around the place
Don't speak too soon - I can think of one garage that runs services into Birmingham and has tons of open space - and no residential near it!!
QuoteDon't speak too soon - I can think of one garage that runs services into Birmingham and has tons of open space - and no residential near it!!
Pensnett?
I would be interested to see if Electrics or Hydrogens can cope with 11a / 11c especially with a 3 bell load - i suppose if they can manage X1 / 900 mileage wouldnt be a big issue, in times past (70's / 80's) they used nickname the 11a/11c "The Bus Breaker"
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 26, 2023, 07:18:02 PMI would be interested to see if Electrics or Hydrogens can cope with 11a / 11c especially with a 3 bell load - i suppose if they can manage X1 / 900 mileage wouldnt be a big issue, in times past (70's / 80's) they used nickname the 11a/11c "The Bus Breaker"
I have no idea why you would think they couldn't. Bus Breaker? Some of the Geminis have been on there almost solid for almost 20 years, and some of the Birmingham Standards 25 years, I don't know of any vehicle type that has ever had to be removed from there.
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 26, 2023, 07:18:02 PMI would be interested to see if Electrics or Hydrogens can cope with 11a / 11c especially with a 3 bell load - i suppose if they can manage X1 / 900 mileage wouldnt be a big issue, in times past (70's / 80's) they used nickname the 11a/11c "The Bus Breaker"
While obviously the route is high milage so puts pressure on vehicles in that respect, I would not say the 11a/c is particularly harsh on vehicles. 20 year old Metrobuses coped fine on it for many years, so did older Volvo Plaxton deckers and Geminis.
This route is very stop-start which actually suits these sort of vehicles better, whereas it is longer, faster routes with less stopping (express type routes) that wear out buses far more than the 11 route, or similar routes, do.
Edit: just seen Tony commented something similar a minute before so apologies for the duplicate post!
Quote from: j789 on October 26, 2023, 07:32:42 PMWhile obviously the route is high milage so puts pressure on vehicles in that respect, I would not say the 11a/c is particularly harsh on vehicles. 20 year old Metrobuses coped fine on it for many years, so did older Volvo Plaxton deckers and Geminis.
This route is very stop-start which actually suits these sort of vehicles better, whereas it is longer, faster routes with less stopping (express type routes) that wear out buses far more than the 11 route, or similar routes, do.
Edit: just seen Tony commented something similar a minute before so apologies for the duplicate post!
The 11 is actually quite low mileage for vehicles, 2h30min for a full lap (when they did a full lap) of 26 miles so buses are only doing an average of 10 mph.
To show the difference between mileages on different routes I was entering details of vehicles having exhaust filters changed earlier this week. 6118 was on just over 400,000 miles, but newer 6828 which had spent most of its life on the X1 is already over 700,000 miles
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 26, 2023, 07:18:02 PMI would be interested to see if Electrics or Hydrogens can cope with 11a / 11c especially with a 3 bell load - i suppose if they can manage X1 / 900 mileage wouldnt be a big issue, in times past (70's / 80's) they used nickname the 11a/11c "The Bus Breaker"
I mean an electric bus has been on the 11 before, so it's definitely a possibility.
Quote from: Tony on October 26, 2023, 07:38:57 PMThe 11 is actually quite low mileage for vehicles, 2h30min for a full lap (when they did a full lap) of 26 miles so buses are only doing an average of 10 mph.
To show the difference between mileages on different routes I was entering details of vehicles having exhaust filters changed earlier this week. 6118 was on just over 400,000 miles, but newer 6828 which had spent most of its life on the X1 is already over 700,000 miles
That's quite a difference its vast and would explain a great deal why some buses of the same age or similar vary in the way they drive
H1006 is on the 51 currently, first time I've seen one on a late night.
Quote from: Jack on October 27, 2023, 10:20:01 PMH1006 is on the 51 currently, first time I've seen one on a late night.
Surprised there's one out at all.
Quote from: Gareth on October 28, 2023, 12:12:57 AMSurprised there's one out at all.
Tends to be at least a few out lately.
There's been 5 out every day this week which is the most that can be fueled on the car pump at Tyseley
How long before they fix the pumps at tyseley so all the hydrogen buses can be back out in use
Quote from: Solo1 on October 30, 2023, 08:16:57 AMHow long before they fix the pumps at tyseley so all the hydrogen buses can be back out in use
Maybe that's why they are currently not out at present so they can get it fixed. Let's hope this is the case.
Quote from: Solo1 on October 30, 2023, 08:16:57 AMHow long before they fix the pumps at tyseley so all the hydrogen buses can be back out in use
I wouldn't worry about when they're next out in service, there'll be another problem to prevent them operating just around the corner. They just seem totally jinxed.
Needs adding to unusual sightings the same hydrogen operating for 5 consecutive days, or is that to much shall we say 2 days then.
Is there a Hydro doing a X51 board, as I spotted one going up Bloxwich Road towards Cannock about half 6 this morning?
Quote from: Westy on November 13, 2023, 07:03:56 AMIs there a Hydro doing a X51 board, as I spotted one going up Bloxwich Road towards Cannock about half 6 this morning?
Didn't think they could go to Cannock because of a tree along the route being on private land causing them trouble.
Quote from: PB50 on November 13, 2023, 08:32:39 AMDidn't think they could go to Cannock because of a tree along the route being on private land causing them trouble.
No idea where the silly private land story has come from. The only reason they didn't go to Cannock was waiting for a tree to be trimmed.
Quote from: Tony on November 13, 2023, 08:38:55 AMNo idea where the silly private land story has come from. The only reason they didn't go to Cannock was waiting for a tree to be trimmed.
I think there was one on the 997 at one point where there was difficulty stated on here getting it trimmed, which may be the source of that confusion. I'm pretty sure they've been on the X51 before (although possibly short workings?)
I seem to remember there was either a Highways Act or Road Traffic Regulation Act provision regarding trimming overhanging trees (planted on private land) for safety reasons but possibly subject to giving notice (thus a slightly longer process).
Is it true the hydrogen buses aren't staying at Walsall due to planning permission being refused to have refill facilities being refused if so where will they go to.
Quote from: Wba_lad on December 01, 2023, 12:05:31 PMIs it true the hydrogen buses aren't staying at Walsall due to planning permission being refused to have refill facilities being refused if so where will they go to.
If true, suspect a depot without residential within spitting distance?
Would've said Pensnett, as we know that is on a Trading Estate, but seeing they got shot of the diesel ones to Walsall, maybe not.
Whatever replaces Brum Central, I guess otherwise, unless they get shot of them completely?
Isnt there facillities at Perry Barr, or planned to be?
Does the planning permission issue affect electric charging equipment as well?
Quote from: Wba_lad on December 01, 2023, 12:05:31 PMIs it true the hydrogen buses aren't staying at Walsall due to planning permission being refused to have refill facilities being refused if so where will they go to.
Depends on where you heard this from.
There's no such planning application listed on the Walsall council website.
Quote from: Stu on December 01, 2023, 02:01:56 PMDepends on where you heard this from.
There's no such planning application listed on the Walsall council website.
Similar story to 'Can't run to Cannock because Staffordshire Fire service won't accept them' all stupid stories invented by people to fit their agenda.
Quote from: Tony on December 01, 2023, 02:17:50 PMSimilar story to 'Can't run to Cannock because Staffordshire Fire service won't accept them' all stupid stories invented by people to fit their agenda.
A Nx employee said this I just wanted to make sure weather it was true or not.
Quote from: Westy on December 01, 2023, 01:56:12 PMIf true, suspect a depot without residential within spitting distance?
Would've said Pensnett, as we know that is on a Trading Estate
I've heard there's plenty of hot air there already so not exactly new 😀🤣
Quote from: Wba_lad on December 01, 2023, 03:12:21 PMA Nx employee said this I just wanted to make sure weather it was true or not.
Clearly someone saw you coming then! :rolleyes:
I suspect there are a fair few NX employees who like to feed 'duff information' to enthusiasts, just to see how far it spreads.
Quote from: Stu on December 01, 2023, 05:06:09 PMClearly someone saw you coming then! :rolleyes:
I suspect there are a fair few NX employees who like to feed 'duff information' to enthusiasts, just to see how far it spreads.
To be fair I did read this somewhere a while ago (can't recall where) but didn't find anything on the Walsall planning site to back it up
Quote from: cardew on December 01, 2023, 05:17:15 PMTo be fair I did read this somewhere a while ago (can't recall where) but didn't find anything on the Walsall planning site to back it up
Exactly, a planning application can't be refused if one hasn't been submitted.
Unless I'm looking in the wrong place?
Quote from: Stu on December 01, 2023, 05:06:09 PMClearly someone saw you coming then! :rolleyes:
I suspect there are a fair few NX employees who like to feed 'duff information' to enthusiasts, just to see how far it spreads.
I do apologise I just wanted to ask
The hydrogens appear to be very religious, not done any work since the 22nd.
Quote from: Mayfield on December 28, 2023, 01:08:51 PMThe hydrogens appear to be very religious, not done any work since the 22nd.
May be the refueling place is shut for Christmas/new year or problem with the pumps there
Quote from: Solo1 on December 28, 2023, 02:41:24 PMMay be the refueling place is shut for Christmas/new year or problem with the pumps there
Did wonder why I haven't seen any both yesterday and just now.
The whole thing is just one giant white elephant. They should seriously look into abandoning it completely. It's an embarrassment.
It's very unfortunate because the buses themselves aren't bad. However, there have been very few orders of Hydroliners compared to the newer Electroliners. So surely after seeing the headache and lack of popularity with hydrogen, NX should focus on one source of power to reach zero-emission fleet targets?
Love to know how many hours of service each one has achieved since delivery, surprised they haven't got flat spots on the tyres from being parked in the same position.
Quote from: Ronnoc on December 29, 2023, 05:42:07 PMIt's very unfortunate because the buses themselves aren't bad. However, there have been very few orders of Hydroliners compared to the newer Electroliners. So surely after seeing the headache and lack of popularity with hydrogen, NX should focus on one source of power to reach zero-emission fleet targets?
According to Roger French's recent blog (https://busandtrainuser.com/2023/12/23/annual-review-and-quiz-of-the-year-2023/), operators in Liverpool and Crawley have both experienced similar issues with lack of hydrogen refuelling capability.
It must be frustrating for Wrightbus too, as no doubt they'd love to take on more orders for their FCEVs, but operators are being put off for this reason - not having local facilities to actually refuel them efficiently and reliably.
I do feel that in the long-term, hydrogen fuel cells are better suited for HGVs and buses/coaches that do more long-distance work, without requiring frequent battery recharging.
But the infrastructure just 'isn't quite there' yet.
Quote from: Gareth on December 29, 2023, 05:24:57 PMThe whole thing is just one giant white elephant. They should seriously look into abandoning it completely. It's an embarrassment.
It would be more embarrassing if NX were committing to buy more hydrogen vehicles without having an agreed timeline in place for the installation of hydrogen generation/refuelling facilities at the garages expected to run those vehicles.
ZEBRA funding is all very well and good, but ultimately it is taxpayers money being wasted if the money doesn't result in bus services regularly using zero emission vehicles and 'saving the planet', if said zero-emission vehicles have to sit around doing nothing because of a lack of fuel to power them.
These 20 hydrogen FCEVs at Walsall were bought by Birmingham City Council using ZEBRA funding, and I assume they are being leased to NX Bus under some kind of arrangement.
I do have to question how long this situation will have to go on for, before NX Bus decide it is not worth paying for vehicles that can't be regularly used in active service, and hand them back to BCC.
Quote from: Stu on December 29, 2023, 08:44:01 PMAccording to Roger French's recent blog (https://busandtrainuser.com/2023/12/23/annual-review-and-quiz-of-the-year-2023/), operators in Liverpool and Crawley have both experienced similar issues with lack of hydrogen refuelling capability.
It must be frustrating for Wrightbus too, as no doubt they'd love to take on more orders for their FCEVs, but operators are being put off for this reason - not having local facilities to actually refuel them efficiently and reliably.
I do feel that in the long-term, hydrogen fuel cells are better suited for HGVs and buses/coaches that do more long-distance work, without requiring frequent battery recharging.
But the infrastructure just 'isn't quite there' yet.
It would be more embarrassing if NX were committing to buy more hydrogen vehicles without having an agreed timeline in place for the installation of hydrogen generation/refuelling facilities at the garages expected to run those vehicles.
ZEBRA funding is all very well and good, but ultimately it is taxpayers money being wasted if the money doesn't result in bus services regularly using zero emission vehicles and 'saving the planet', if said zero-emission vehicles have to sit around doing nothing because of a lack of fuel to power them.
These 20 hydrogen FCEVs at Walsall were bought by Birmingham City Council using ZEBRA funding, and I assume they are being leased to NX Bus under some kind of arrangement.
I do have to question how long this situation will have to go on for, before NX Bus decide it is not worth paying for vehicles that can't be regularly used in active service, and hand them back to BCC.
Couldn't NX buy them and convert them to normal Electric the old awnser would be Diesel but that isn't happening anymore so can't they convert them to being normal Electroliners
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on December 30, 2023, 11:37:38 AMCouldn't NX buy them and convert them to normal Electric the old awnser would be Diesel but that isn't happening anymore so can't they convert them to being normal Electroliners
Why would they spend millions of pounds buying these off BCC to then spend even more money to convert them to full electric? (if it's even possible).
Quote from: Stu on December 30, 2023, 01:10:56 PMWhy would they spend millions of pounds buying these off BCC to then spend even more money to convert them to full electric? (if it's even possible).
True I did think that after I posted it.
Quote from: Stu on December 29, 2023, 08:44:01 PMAccording to Roger French's recent blog (https://busandtrainuser.com/2023/12/23/annual-review-and-quiz-of-the-year-2023/), operators in Liverpool and Crawley have both experienced similar issues with lack of hydrogen refuelling capability.
It must be frustrating for Wrightbus too, as no doubt they'd love to take on more orders for their FCEVs, but operators are being put off for this reason - not having local facilities to actually refuel them efficiently and reliably.
I do feel that in the long-term, hydrogen fuel cells are better suited for HGVs and buses/coaches that do more long-distance work, without requiring frequent battery recharging.
But the infrastructure just 'isn't quite there' yet.
Aberdeen has similar issues as well even since having hydrogen vehicles since 2014 with those 6x2 vanhools, first has to regularly loan e400cities and e300s from glasgow to cover for unavailable hydrogens (around 25 vehicles).
Quote from: Stu on December 29, 2023, 08:44:01 PMAccording to Roger French's recent blog (https://busandtrainuser.com/2023/12/23/annual-review-and-quiz-of-the-year-2023/), operators in Liverpool and Crawley have both experienced similar issues with lack of hydrogen refuelling capability.
It must be frustrating for Wrightbus too, as no doubt they'd love to take on more orders for their FCEVs, but operators are being put off for this reason - not having local facilities to actually refuel them efficiently and reliably.
I do feel that in the long-term, hydrogen fuel cells are better suited for HGVs and buses/coaches that do more long-distance work, without requiring frequent battery recharging.
But the infrastructure just 'isn't quite there' yet.
It would be more embarrassing if NX were committing to buy more hydrogen vehicles without having an agreed timeline in place for the installation of hydrogen generation/refuelling facilities at the garages expected to run those vehicles.
These 20 hydrogen FCEVs at Walsall were bought by Birmingham City Council using ZEBRA funding, and I assume they are being leased to NX Bus under some kind of arrangement.
There's about forty in Aberdeen and twenty or so with Metroline in London. Both have been having sporadic issues with getting fuel for them.
Just seen H1015 in Walsall on hatherton road, pouring water out and smoking, I know it's normal for bits of water to come out of them but this was proper pouring out.
Are you sure it was a hydrogen and not an optical illusion
QuoteJust seen H1015 in Walsall on hatherton road, pouring water out and smoking, I know it's normal for bits of water to come out of them but this was proper pouring out.
I'm sure hydrogens don't pour water out like a tap would mate
Quote from: BBS on January 05, 2024, 01:43:23 PMI'm sure hydrogens don't pour water out like a tap would mate
Hydrogens release steam aswell as water.
You
Quote from: Wba_lad on January 05, 2024, 01:13:05 PMJust seen H1015 in Walsall on hatherton road, pouring water out and smoking, I know it's normal for bits of water to come out of them but this was proper pouring out.
You would have seen water pouring out it does when the Fuel cell is working to maximum, but they don't smoke.
Quote from: Tony on January 05, 2024, 05:49:40 PMYou You would have seen water pouring out it does when the Fuel cell is working to maximum, but they don't smoke.
I see, but it was smoking or steaming pretty bad. If it's normal then no need to worry.
Quote from: Wba_lad on January 05, 2024, 06:06:09 PMI see, but it was smoking or steaming pretty bad. If it's normal then no need to worry.
It's steam (Actually water vapour you cannot see steam, but commonly called steam). Any source of warm water in cold weather will produce Water Vapour
Didn't realise hydrogen buses were back out in service yet.
Quote from: PB50 on January 05, 2024, 06:46:47 PMDidn't realise hydrogen buses were back out in service yet.
They're not, but some have been fuelled to make them available for Monday
Quote from: Tony on January 05, 2024, 07:00:12 PMThey're not, but some have been fuelled to make them available for Monday
Ah I see. Thanks for that.
H1007, announcements not working
Quote from: Wba_lad on January 09, 2024, 05:42:03 PMH1007, announcements not working
Not exactly a major problem is it ?
Was just onboard H1007, and as I was getting off I seen the fuel symbol and it said 29% I was wondering because this bus still had to go to Walsall back to Birmingham and then back to Walsall how long will 29% last, will it last the night or will it get refueled tonight.
Birmingha
Quote from: Wba_lad on January 09, 2024, 05:49:30 PMWas just onboard H1007, and as I was getting off I seen the fuel symbol and it said 29% I was wondering because this bus still had to go to Walsall back to Birmingham and then back to Walsall how long will 29% last, will it last the night or will it get refueled tonight.
Birmingham to Walsall uses 4-5%
Quote from: Tony on January 09, 2024, 06:09:58 PMBirminghaBirmingham to Walsall uses 4-5%
Ah I see, thank you again, so won't be refilled untill tomorrow now.
No hydrogen buses out today I see.
Quote from: PB50 on January 22, 2024, 09:06:54 AMNo hydrogen buses out today I see.
Yes, we already know what some of the issues are and not all in NX's control, let's just leave it there
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 22, 2024, 09:17:26 AMYes, we already know what some of the issues are and not all in NX's control, let's just leave it there
IMHO time to discontinue this Hydrogen Farce, go All Electric, much more reliable good for toasting Marshmallows aswell (other companies vehicles have a tendancy to catch fire) on any given day most if not all Hydrogen buses are off the road (waste of money IMHO) :embarrassed:
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on January 25, 2024, 07:43:26 PMIMHO time to discontinue this Hydrogen Farce, go All Electric, much more reliable good for toasting Marshmallows aswell (other companies vehicles have a tendancy to catch fire) on any given day most if not all Hydrogen buses are off the road (waste of money IMHO) :embarrassed:
Like I said, let's just leave it !
The constant anti-hydrogen bashing is also another thing that's getting boring. It's completely out of NX's control with the situation that's ongoing at the moment. Yet people will still find a way to have a dig!
I like streetdecks, and the I certainly like the hydrogen designed ones, however as stated the fuel issue is letting them down, meaning I doubt Nx will consider hydrogens after the issues they are causing at the moment, hopefully in the near future there becomes more hydrogen fueling stations. Maybe with more fueling stations or maybe a garage with a hydrogen fuel station such as Walsall will allow the hydrogen process to be much easier. This would also then allow them to go on any route really as won't need designated hydrogen boards if they have fuelling facilities at the garage.
However hydrogen buses don't seem to be the only buses causing issues at the moment, electric buses seem to be all over the news at the moment, I know National express haven't had this issue yet but from what I have heard from a National express driver they have been told if a electric catches fire just leave it to burn, there is no way of stopping any sort of electric vehicle from burning, you have to just leave them to burn out themselves, which makes me wonder what would happen if one caught fire at National express Coventry depot because how close together the buses are parked in garages if something happenes like the incident with 4601 at Walsall garage if one goes up then another one goes up could be a nasty fire with no way of stopping it either. How would this work?
Quote from: Wba_lad on January 25, 2024, 08:51:17 PMI like streetdecks, and the I certainly like the hydrogen designed ones, however as stated the fuel issue is letting them down, meaning I doubt Nx will consider hydrogens after the issues they are causing at the moment, hopefully in the near future there becomes more hydrogen fueling stations. Maybe with more fueling stations or maybe a garage with a hydrogen fuel station such as Walsall will allow the hydrogen process to be much easier. This would also then allow them to go on any route really as won't need designated hydrogen boards if they have fuelling facilities at the garage.
However hydrogen buses don't seem to be the only buses causing issues at the moment, electric buses seem to be all over the news at the moment, I know National express haven't had this issue yet but from what I have heard from a National express driver they have been told if a electric catches fire just leave it to burn, there is no way of stopping any sort of electric vehicle from burning, you have to just leave them to burn out themselves, which makes me wonder what would happen if one caught fire at National express Coventry depot because how close together the buses are parked in garages if something happenes like the incident with 4601 at Walsall garage if one goes up then another one goes up could be a nasty fire with no way of stopping it either. How would this work?
Can we just stop this please !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 25, 2024, 09:10:02 PMCan we just stop this please !
Agreed everyone's sick of it. Its not NX fault so its a lost cause for everyone constantly whinging!
Quote from: Jack on January 25, 2024, 09:36:04 PMAgreed everyone's sick of it. Its not NX fault so its a lost cause for everyone constantly whinging!
I didn't say it was NXs fault I was just saying hopefully it gets sorted so Nx will consider getting more hydrogen buses
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on January 25, 2024, 07:43:26 PMIMHO time to discontinue this Hydrogen Farce, go All Electric, much more reliable good for toasting Marshmallows aswell (other companies vehicles have a tendancy to catch fire) on any given day most if not all Hydrogen buses are off the road (waste of money IMHO) :embarrassed:
You insist on posting this rubbish about electrics being a fire risk
Quote from: Tony on January 26, 2024, 08:24:28 AMYou insist on posting this rubbish about electrics being a fire risk
what i said was what i have seen on social media, a company or garage that had 28 electrics have withdrawn ALL vehicles after fires (shown in a video) several London Electrics have caught fire, the latest one was at Putney in garage
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on January 27, 2024, 01:57:36 PMwhat i said was what i have seen on social media, a company or garage that had 28 electrics have withdrawn ALL vehicles after fires (shown in a video) several London Electrics have caught fire, the latest one was at Putney in garage
3 fires in over a thousand vehicles in 10 years is not my definition of several, as a comparison Stagecoach Highlands had three diesel fires one year in a fleet of around 150. Last year NX had zero thermal incidents other than arson despite operating 163 electric vehicles
Quote from: Tony on January 27, 2024, 02:09:42 PM3 fires in over a thousand vehicles in 10 years is not my definition of several, as a comparison Stagecoach Highlands had three diesel fires one year in a fleet of around 150. Last year NX had zero thermal incidents other than arson despite operating 163 electric vehicles
well finally your more chilled towards me
i was only asking a polite question - thank you for your input
for the record, Electric Buses are ok, long overdue to be honest, this move towards electric vehicles (as a whole) should have happened in the 80's
Might be a daft question, but once whatever issues have been sorted out, are there still plans to X51 them as far as Cannock? Think the reason they werent was to do with sone trees en route needing trimming
Quote from: Bob on February 05, 2024, 07:03:40 AMMight be a daft question, but once whatever issues have been sorted out, are there still plans to X51 them as far as Cannock? Think the reason they werent was to do with sone trees en route needing trimming
But when are the issues going to be sorted out as this is another week where they will be just sitting up the depot, no fault to National Express.
No Hydrogen been out since Friday 26 January due to fueling issues.
Quote from: Lynx1103 on February 05, 2024, 09:57:58 AMNo Hydrogen been out since Friday 26 January due to fueling issues.
This may be a silly question, but when are they due to be back in service?
How long is a piece of string
Quote from: West_Brom/WalsallBusGeek on February 11, 2024, 06:03:12 AMThis may be a silly question, but when are they due to be back in service?
The Hydrogen filling station is hopefully going to be available from 25th February
Quote from: Tony on February 11, 2024, 09:40:35 AMThe Hydrogen filling station is hopefully going to be available from 25th February
It's nice to hear some good news
What about Walsall's own facillities?
Quote from: Tony on February 11, 2024, 09:40:35 AMThe Hydrogen filling station is hopefully going to be available from 25th February
I take it the hydrogen filling station hasn't become available then.
Quote from: Tony on February 11, 2024, 09:40:35 AMThe Hydrogen filling station is hopefully going to be available from 25th February
Any updates on this?
Are we seriously going this road again, it's been documented on this forum many times about the Hydrogen situation, yes it's frustrating but not as frustrating as it is for NX. This will be sorted in time, we are all going to have to be patient
Quote from: Steve3229vp on February 29, 2024, 08:03:22 AMAre we seriously going this road again, it's been documented on this forum many times about the Hydrogen situation, yes it's frustrating but not as frustrating as it is for NX. This will be sorted in time, we are all going to have to be patient
A bit unnecessary? People are allowed to ask questions and for updates, that is the whole point of forums, and this topic! The poster wasn't passing any ill comment on the situation or "having a go", merely enquiring on something many of us readers are interested to know, especially when our council tax has gone towards these vehicles.
Perhaps as you are so knowledgeable on this you could tell us yourself the specific reason why this week's target has been missed or any new dates being aimed for in the near future?
I'd like to know the long term plan for Walsall's own hydro facillity, bearing in mind, there's no back up for Tyseley, causing loans in from other depots & Wmca 'acquiring ' the depot, possibly leasing back to Nx, & Walsall's other routes will have to be converted to either hydro or electric eventually.
(I thought, like other people, as the 51 would be hydro operated, Walsall would become the first all hydro garage?)
Quote from: Steve3229vp on February 29, 2024, 08:03:22 AMAre we seriously going this road again, it's been documented on this forum many times about the Hydrogen situation, yes it's frustrating but not as frustrating as it is for NX. This will be sorted in time, we are all going to have to be patient
I agree, it's just as annoying as the constant moaning about single decks on the 4 or the spam of route branded buses off route!
Honestly would be nice if some people here had patience, i'm sure once they've rectified this issue (like all the others) they'll come back again.
Quote from: Jack on February 29, 2024, 11:48:49 AMI agree, it's just as annoying as the constant moaning about single decks on the 4 or the spam of route branded buses off route!
Honestly would be nice if some people here had patience, i'm sure once they've rectified this issue (like all the others) they'll come back again.
don't visit this forum then if you don't want conversation. they just asked a damn question and y'all have your panties in a twist for no reason, curiosity is allowed. it's a forum. y'all are insanely argumentative for no good reason.
The clue to when they can be fueled is you'll see them in service.
25th come and gone with no news
Quote from: Tony on February 29, 2024, 04:06:35 PMThe clue to when they can be fueled is you'll see them in service.
25th come and gone with no news
Exactly, that's my point, there is no news, we all want to see the Hydrogens and Electrics in service but we're all going to have to wait !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on February 29, 2024, 04:12:33 PMExactly, that's my point, there is no news, we all want to see the Hydrogens and Electrics in service but we're all going to have to wait !
People lack patience on here it seems!
Quote from: Jack on February 29, 2024, 11:48:49 AMI agree, it's just as annoying as the constant moaning about single decks on the 4 or the spam of route branded buses off route!
It's seem like your the only one here with a issue. A whole point of the fourm is discuss topics of the threads. If there is a topic called 'Route branded buses, off route', People are going to discuss that. You can choose what you want to read on here, simply ignore it if you don't like it. But moaning about people discussing topics and branding them as 'inpatient' for simply asking a question is not fair.
Quote from: LiamsTransport1 on February 29, 2024, 04:51:38 PMIt's seem like your the only one here with an issue. A whole point of the fourm is discuss topics of the threads. If there is a topic called 'Route branded buses, off route', People are going to discuss that. You can choose what you want to read on here, simply ignore it if you don't like it. But moaning about people discussing topics and branding them as 'inpatient' for simply asking a question is not fair.
I do indeed ignore that thread, just saying it's annoying when it's clear that it's all usual and more interesting things going on than whether a branded bus is off route!
Quote from: Steve3229vp on February 29, 2024, 04:12:33 PMExactly, that's my point, there is no news, we all want to see the Hydrogens and Electrics in service but we're all going to have to wait !
Quote from: jasmine on February 29, 2024, 05:51:13 PMwhat exactly do you want nx to do or try that they probably havent already done? its not like nx are doing this on purpose im sure they want they hydros on the road as much as you do but its just impossible rn, gouging info out of tony and anybody else working for nx isnt helpful
He didn't say anything about NX or was 'gouging' information out of anyone either. Read back what was said.
Some people on this forum need to go back to school to learn some manners.
Quote from: TeethHunter on February 29, 2024, 09:33:13 AMA bit unnecessary? People are allowed to ask questions and for updates, that is the whole point of forums, and this topic! The poster wasn't passing any ill comment on the situation or "having a go", merely enquiring on something many of us readers are interested to know, especially when our council tax has gone towards these vehicles.
That is untrue. The buses were bought with funding from the government that was awarded to Birmingham City Council.
Council taxpayers have not paid for this.
It's quite fascinating how me simply asking for an update has caused such a fuss! I did not show any signs of impatience, I was only curious as the 25th had passed.
Quote from: Stu on February 29, 2024, 09:26:15 PMThat is untrue. The buses were bought with funding from the government that was awarded to Birmingham City Council.
Council taxpayers have not paid for this.
I'm afraid that your comment is untrue Stu.I would point you in the direction of the press release issued on behalf of Waseem Zaffar in 2021 when these vehicles were first used, where a breakdown of the funding was given. The buses were paid for by a combination of.... OLEV funding, the GBSLEP, FCH JU (a European Union project) funding and the rest made up by Birmingham City Council themselves.
Last time I checked it was indeed taxpayers who gave BCC their spending money, where they choose to waste it is out of ours hands sadly. You will also find reference in recent newspaper articles on the council going bankrupt that they have to date spent £50million on both the Hydrogen Bus project and Cycle lanes combined although the exact amount spent on each isn't disclosed.
Why would buses funded wholly by the UK government carry EU flags?
The only money that came from the UK government was the OLEV funding. If the government paid in full for buses, especially such high cost zero emission buses, every operator and authority would be at their door with a begging bowl and the country would be bankrupt within a year!
So please do forgive people for showing an interest in these buses, especially those of us who are now looking at fortnightly bin collections!
Quote from: TeethHunter on February 29, 2024, 11:05:50 PMI'm afraid that your comment is untrue Stu.
I would point you in the direction of the press release issued on behalf of Waseem Zaffar in 2021 when these vehicles were first used, where a breakdown of the funding was given.
The buses were paid for by a combination of.... OLEV funding, the GBSLEP, FCH JU (a European Union project) funding and the rest made up by Birmingham City Council themselves.
Last time I checked it was indeed taxpayers who gave BCC their spending money, where they choose to waste it is out of ours hands sadly.
You will also find reference in recent newspaper articles on the council going bankrupt that they have to date spent £50million on both the Hydrogen Bus project and Cycle lanes combined although the exact amount spent on each isn't disclosed.
Why would buses funded wholly by the UK government carry EU flags?
The only money that came from the UK government was the OLEV funding. If the government paid in full for buses, especially such high cost zero emission buses, every operator and authority would be at their door with a begging bowl and the country would be bankrupt within a year!
So please do forgive people for showing an interest in these buses, especially those of us who are now looking at fortnightly bin collections!
if you look at Stu's comment, he wrote:
The buses were bought with funding from the government that was awarded to Birmingham City Council.This has nothing to do with Council Tax Payers
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 01, 2024, 04:58:06 AMif you look at Stu's comment, he wrote:
The buses were bought with funding from the government that was awarded to Birmingham City Council.
This has nothing to do with Council Tax Payers
Yes and the statement is untrue. Or did BCC win the lottery back in 2017 (when the bids went in) and not tell anyone? Grants do not pay 100% for new buses and the council has confirmed they part paid, what more do you need? If you don't believe me, search online, the information is all there in the public domain.
The original plans included the Tyseley hub being used to fuel hydrogen bin lorries and taxis too, do you think the council would get those for free as well?
Quote from: TeethHunter on March 01, 2024, 08:16:28 AMYes and the statement is untrue. Or did BCC win the lottery back in 2017 (when the bids went in) and not tell anyone? Grants do not pay 100% for new buses and the council has confirmed they part paid, what more do you need?
The original plans included the Tyseley hub being used to fuel hydrogen bin lorries and taxis too, do you think the council would get those for free as well?
The fuelling station is a private company ITM Power, and Taxis & Bin Lorries would be privately owned
QuoteI agree, it's just as annoying as the constant moaning about single decks on the 4 or the spam of route branded buses off route!
Honestly would be nice if some people here had patience, i'm sure once they've rectified this issue (like all the others) they'll come back again.
If you don't like it you don't have to be here, singe decks on the 4 is a moaning excuse and you sound quite troubled over that
He's talking about the Walsall 4 not the Birmingham one
QuoteHe's talking about the Walsall 4 not the Birmingham one
Fair enough, apologies
Now that the Sprint buses are planned to be electric and based at Perry Barr, I'll be interested to see how the hydrogen buses are used - if staying at Walsall they'd need to be operated in Birmingham so presumably 934-7 and 997 - unless they go to another garage in 2025.
Wouldn't it make sense to have them at a closer garage like AG or BC because of tyseley?
Quote from: Dababa015 on March 01, 2024, 07:36:36 PMWouldn't it make sense to have them at a closer garage like AG or BC because of tyseley?
If it was a straight forward as that it would of already been done by now
Do BCC still own these buses given the situation they are in right now?
so in order to learn from my question on the present state of the Hydrogen vehs
I am told to 'view' the 'hydrogen' page .... So where is the current information? as of March 2024? or is there more than one Hydrogen page???
Current position is all 20 are parked in Walsall garage waiting for ITM to finally fix their fuelling facilities. H1009, is currently in the Hydrogen maintenance bay with Wrights trying to fix the problem that kept it off the road before the fuelling problem
Am I right in thinking it been of the road since August, if so I worry about Wrights technical abilities.
Quote from: Mayfield on March 15, 2024, 06:21:13 PMAm I right in thinking it been of the road since August, if so I worry about Wrights technical abilities.
No, a quick look on Bustimes will show you they were in use up to January
I've just had a look and Bustimes says H1008/9 both last used in August unless I don't know how to use it correctly, please advise.
The last H bus I saw was H1004 in use on a 51 service in early February
are there any other hydrogen buses currently in use in the UK?
Quote from: windy miller on March 16, 2024, 02:08:18 AMThe last H bus I saw was H1004 in use on a 51 service in early February
are there any other hydrogen buses currently in use in the UK?
London's are running OK, Crawley ones are running but not fully due to short supply of Hydrogen. Liverpool's aren't running. Aberdeen's are not fully running
Are NX still planning on buying another hundred of these?
i thought they were buying electroliners
Quote from: jasmine on March 17, 2024, 08:36:50 PMi thought they were buying electroliners
I thought NX had stopped buying new buses.
Quote from: Jay71 on March 17, 2024, 09:39:07 PMI thought NX had stopped buying new buses.
They haven't stopped buying new buses, just stopped buying new diesel buses
Quote from: winston on March 17, 2024, 09:53:24 PMThey haven't stopped buying new buses, just stopped buying new diesel buses
They haven't bought anything for a while have they? Everything new seems to be leased.
Quote from: Gareth on March 17, 2024, 09:59:45 PMThey haven't bought anything for a while have they? Everything new seems to be leased.
No, everything's leased these days.
Although they still like announce how much they're investing in new fleet orders etc...
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/walsall/2024/03/18/walsalls-bus-depot-sold-to-pave-way-for-future-franchise-bus-system-and-hydrogen-powered-buses/
I haven't seen this mentioned on here so for those who want to avoid pop-ups, videos and answering a survey for the privilege of reading the article, here is a summary
Hydrogen buses will be introduced with a hydrogen generation system sourcing water from the nearby canal.
Quote from: cardew on March 20, 2024, 07:32:14 AMhttps://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/walsall/2024/03/18/walsalls-bus-depot-sold-to-pave-way-for-future-franchise-bus-system-and-hydrogen-powered-buses/
I haven't seen this mentioned on here so for those who want to avoid pop-ups, videos and answering a survey for the privilege of reading the article, here is a summary
Hydrogen buses will be introduced with a hydrogen generation system sourcing water from the nearby canal.
Well, they didnt mention electric, so stands a good chance, Walsall will go all hydrogen then!
(Which is logical, considering what the 51 is SUPPOSED to be operated by!)
Quote from: cardew on March 20, 2024, 07:32:14 AMhttps://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/walsall/2024/03/18/walsalls-bus-depot-sold-to-pave-way-for-future-franchise-bus-system-and-hydrogen-powered-buses/
I haven't seen this mentioned on here so for those who want to avoid pop-ups, videos and answering a survey for the privilege of reading the article, here is a summary
Hydrogen buses will be introduced with a hydrogen generation system sourcing water from the nearby canal.
I'm glad I don't live in Walsall. They'll have no bus service at all. 🙊
Quote from: Gareth on March 20, 2024, 05:00:59 PMI'm glad I don't live in Walsall. They'll have no bus service at all. 🙊
The main core services no but the locals like the 34, 37, 39, 4's will as they can't use Double Deckers so I would imagine Singles probably the E200's and B7's when the Omnilinks get withdrawn will be running absolutely fine. And surely they will have Electrics to back them up. This obsession everyone has with making things Zero Emissions is annoying. The Electric Buses are fine don't loose NX any money they have there own Charging network so on. But EV's are losing value, Charging infrastructure isn't that good and how do you scrap them. As for Hydrogen my preferred choice you have issues with the Pumping Station, maybe the canal will releave that issue. But how can you Gaurantee a bus service will be reliable, hopefully by the time Walsall has more Hydrogen buses they will have fixed the issues so that it doesn't look like a waste of money.
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on March 21, 2024, 11:07:24 AMThe main core services no but the locals like the 34, 37, 39, 4's will as they can't use Double Deckers so I would imagine Singles probably the E200's and B7's when the Omnilinks get withdrawn will be running absolutely fine. And surely they will have Electrics to back them up. This obsession everyone has with making things Zero Emissions is annoying. The Electric Buses are fine don't loose NX any money they have there own Charging network so on. But EV's are losing value, Charging infrastructure isn't that good and how do you scrap them. As for Hydrogen my preferred choice you have issues with the Pumping Station, maybe the canal will releave that issue. But how can you Gaurantee a bus service will be reliable, hopefully by the time Walsall has more Hydrogen buses they will have fixed the issues so that it doesn't look like a waste of money.
Who says Hydrogen buses have to be double deck? (https://wmbusphotos.com/NONWM/B&H/b&h6066.231216a.jpg)
Quote from: Tony on March 21, 2024, 12:27:58 PMWho says Hydrogen buses have to be double deck?
I didn't know if there was any Hydrogen Single Decks I thought there were electric.
Oh dear - familiar problem here at Metrobus for the Fastway services - lack of fuelling facilities results in only a few buses in operation. It appears the Health and Safety Executive has objected to planning permission for the refuelling plant owing to proximity to residential premises and a school. The handful of buses in operation are being fuelled from supplies brought in by road tankers (is this not a possibility for NXWM whilst Tyseley is out of operation)?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80ze58yxnlo (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80ze58yxnlo)
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on March 21, 2024, 02:39:10 PMI didn't know if there was any Hydrogen Single Decks I thought there were electric.
Of the four hydrogen bus models currently available in the UK, two are single decker: the Caetano H2 City Gold, based on the Toyota Sora chassis, and the Wright GB Kite Hydroliner.
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on March 21, 2024, 11:07:24 AMThis obsession everyone has with making things Zero Emissions is annoying.
Don't get me started on this fake news. There is no climate crisis in the UK.
Quote from: markcf83 on April 12, 2024, 02:35:00 PMDon't get me started on this fake news. There is no climate crisis in the UK.
Believe what you want to believe, but it's not just the climate crisis as to why companies are pushing for zero emission. People would much rather not be inhaling the fumes of combustion engines, so it's good if these emissions can be cut as much as possible.
Target the cars not the buses, theyre the ones doing the most damage to the environment and releasing the most fumes
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on April 12, 2024, 05:52:32 PMTarget the cars not the buses, theyre the ones doing the most damage to the environment and releasing the most fumes
Can't you see the link though? unless you have the alternative in place you stand no chance of targeting the cars
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on April 12, 2024, 05:52:32 PMTarget the cars not the buses, theyre the ones doing the most damage to the environment and releasing the most fumes
There's nothing wrong with electrifying buses, the amount of emissions produced by an 8.3L ALX400 engine being used over 20 years must be very high. However, the best way to target cars is human-centric urban planning and excellent public transport infrastructure. Although this concept will be demonised by the same conspiracy theorists that fabricate lies about electric buses exploding every other day.
Quote from: spacecowboy150 on April 12, 2024, 05:52:32 PMTarget the cars not the buses, theyre the ones doing the most damage to the environment and releasing the most fumes
have you heard of a particular place called London? there's more buses than cars in that place.
Quote from: jasmine on April 12, 2024, 09:11:28 PMhave you heard of a particular place called London? there's more buses than cars in that place.
Hardly
i mean when i was in shoreditch yesterday it was insane. bus after bus after bus after bus and i saw like 5 ev400evs
Quote from: jasmine on April 12, 2024, 09:45:45 PMi mean when i was in shoreditch yesterday it was insane. bus after bus after bus after bus and i saw like 5 ev400evs
You saw 5 buses in shoreditch yesterday? That really is insane!
On a bad day I see 5 in one minute at my regular bus stop.
Quote from: Gareth on April 12, 2024, 09:55:47 PMYou saw 5 buses in shoreditch yesterday? That really is insane!
On a bad day I see 5 in one minute at my regular bus stop.
i said i saw like 5 e400ev's, not 5 buses in total. that number is in the several hundreds.
Quote from: jasmine on April 12, 2024, 09:45:45 PMi mean when i was in shoreditch yesterday it was insane. bus after bus after bus after bus and i saw like 5 ev400evs
Have you been to Coventry?
Quote from: jasmine on April 12, 2024, 09:11:28 PMhave you heard of a particular place called London? there's more buses than cars in that place.
Nowhere near accurate.
Longest time missing hydrogen H1009 paid a visit to Wolverhampton garage today and passed an MoT, so once we can get some fuel it will be back in the fray with the other 19
Quote from: Tony on April 18, 2024, 06:02:32 PMLongest time missing hydrogen H1009 paid a visit to Wolverhampton garage today and passed an MoT, so once we can get some fuel it will be back in the fray with the other 19
Any ideas when they might be back on the road?
Quote from: Tony on April 18, 2024, 06:02:32 PMLongest time missing hydrogen H1009 paid a visit to Wolverhampton garage today and passed an MoT, so once we can get some fuel it will be back in the fray with the other 19
Its first MOT - chuffin Nora! I bet the mileage was a tad modest!
3rd one I think
Quote from: Mayfield on April 18, 2024, 06:42:12 PM3rd one I think
Actually it's second.
Mileage all of 10,746
Presume it didn't get one in August 23 as it was going to be long term VOR :shocked:
Quote from: Wumpty on April 18, 2024, 06:21:17 PMIts first MOT - chuffin Nora! I bet the mileage was a tad modest!
For sale sign now in windscreen haha
Hello, have these buses been moved from route 51, I was down in the wm area today and didn't see any.
Quote from: 0.5% on May 08, 2024, 09:42:24 PMHello, have these buses been moved from route 51, I was down in the wm area today and didn't see any.
they havent been on service since january due to countrywide hydrogen shortages.
Thats a shame, london have theirs out at the minute so it might be region specific.
When is the hydrogen coming back soon?
Quote from: a4 funcool 2022 on May 11, 2024, 10:27:31 PMWhen is the hydrogen coming back soon?
if we had an answer it would already be posted here
An interesting read:
https://www.route-one.net/bus/fuel-supply-brings-challenges-for-more-hydrogen-bus-deployment/
Quote from: mesub on May 13, 2024, 01:35:49 PMAn interesting read:
https://www.route-one.net/bus/fuel-supply-brings-challenges-for-more-hydrogen-bus-deployment/
I can't say I'm surprised, NX must have been so frustrated having 20 buses sitting idle for want of fuel.
So what of the WMCA's grand plans to generate hydrogen from canal water in Walsall I wonder?
The ZEBRA funding aspect is interesting, will the government allow that phase one funding to be re-specified as electric vehicles like they did for the Sprint bendis? I think the total grant was £30 million for 124 buses.
Does that mean they might get rid of them for good?
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on May 13, 2024, 02:51:51 PMDoes that mean they might get rid of them for good?
I wouldn't be surprised if they never came back into service. However I would like to see them back one more time, as I never even got to sample one.
Quote from: Gareth on May 13, 2024, 05:19:38 PMI wouldn't be surprised if they never came back into service. However I would like to see them back one more time, as I never even got to sample one.
They will hopefully be able to use them from next week
Quote from: mesub on May 13, 2024, 01:35:49 PMAn interesting read:
https://www.route-one.net/bus/fuel-supply-brings-challenges-for-more-hydrogen-bus-deployment/
Quote from: cardew on May 13, 2024, 02:30:25 PMI can't say I'm surprised, NX must have been so frustrated having 20 buses sitting idle for want of fuel.
So what of the WMCA's grand plans to generate hydrogen from canal water in Walsall I wonder?
The ZEBRA funding aspect is interesting, will the government allow that phase one funding to be re-specified as electric vehicles like they did for the Sprint bendis? I think the total grant was £30 million for 124 buses.
Yes, that was an interesting read indeed. It would seem to me that based on the current experience, NX have little to no desire to pursue the hydrogen route at this time, which is understandable as it seems that the electric buses are performing better than expected.
Of course, being out in service all day every day for most of the day, carrying passengers and earning revenue, comes in very handy. :laugh:
I suppose that while NX do not intend to invest in further hydrogen-fuelled vehicles, they will still make what use they can of these 20 examples they already have.
Great news that they can be used again from next week, if the refuelling facility is available again, but then I guess the question is how long until it breaks down again?
I would anticipate that NX will keep hold of these hydrogens for the short-term, at least until a lot more brand-new electric buses are delivered, then at some point, maybe next year, NX will hand them back to Birmingham City Council, as I presume NX only have them under some kind of lease arrangement. What BCC do with them next is anyone's guess, but it is no longer a problem for NX to deal with!
Quote from: Stu on May 13, 2024, 08:25:04 PMYes, that was an interesting read indeed. It would seem to me that based on the current experience, NX have little to no desire to pursue the hydrogen route at this time, which is understandable as it seems that the electric buses are performing better than expected.
Of course, being out in service all day every day for most of the day, carrying passengers and earning revenue, comes in very handy. :laugh:
I suppose that while NX do not intend to invest in further hydrogen-fuelled vehicles, they will still make what use they can of these 20 examples they already have.
Great news that they can be used again from next week, if the refuelling facility is available again, but then I guess the question is how long until it breaks down again?
I would anticipate that NX will keep hold of these hydrogens for the short-term, at least until a lot more brand-new electric buses are delivered, then at some point, maybe next year, NX will hand them back to Birmingham City Council, as I presume NX only have them under some kind of lease arrangement. What BCC do with them next is anyone's guess, but it is no longer a problem for NX to deal with!
A Hydrogen Bus actually in service, blimey, when & where can i phot such a rare beast ?
If they do return to service next week better be quick to get a photo as I bet they don't last a week
I'm guessing they are still unavailable then because they haven't come back into service this week
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on May 20, 2024, 11:34:26 AMI'm guessing they are still unavailable then because they haven't come back into service this week
They're available, but staff have to be found to get them fuelled first
Quote from: Mayfield on May 16, 2024, 09:48:26 PMIf they do return to service next week better be quick to get a photo as I bet they don't last a week
You're always positive about the Hydrogen buses aren't you !
And another week goes by.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on May 20, 2024, 03:18:45 PMYou're always positive about the Hydrogen buses aren't you !
If you can point anything positive out I will gladly take it on board.
Quote from: Mayfield on May 24, 2024, 08:15:21 AMIf you can point anything positive out I will gladly take it on board.
The Hydrogen issue is out of NX'S hands
As Tony stated above they need to find staff to fuel, so I would think it's entirely in NX hands unless Tony means staff at the fuelling facilities
Quote from: Mayfield on May 24, 2024, 10:19:57 PMAs Tony stated above they need to find staff to fuel, so I would think it's entirely in NX hands unless Tony means staff at the fuelling facilities
Also at the moment a new contract is being drawn up negotiating the price. As you don't live in the West Midlands I can't see that it affects you in any way
So that's a different reason to what you stated on May 20th, so why come back with a snide remark, it doesn't mater where I live I'm interested and maybe I want to travel to Birmingham to have a ride on one as I haven't had chance yet.
It sums up the entire success of the Sprint project that these expensive buses haven't turned a wheel in months and as a result the Walsall Road is now regularly frequented by knackered 17 year old Omnilinks. Another one for the NXWM/TfWM/BCC success portfolio.
Quote from: Straightlines on May 25, 2024, 09:24:01 AMIt sums up the entire success of the Sprint project that these expensive buses haven't turned a wheel in months and as a result the Walsall Road is now regularly frequented by knackered 17 year old Omnilinks. Another one for the NXWM/TfWM/BCC success portfolio.
Isn't really NX's fault, WA doesn't have enough Double Deckers because of the Hydrogen shortage. They did actually run 12 year old B7's on the X51 and 51 Yesterday. The B7's don't feel 12 years old. They still have 9 year old Plattys high spec buses covering. WA can't loan in a whole fleet of Double Deckers to cover. It is however a mess for BCC Bankrupt and probably unable to sell these buses and TFWM just like the Metro delays
Quote from: Straightlines on May 25, 2024, 09:24:01 AMIt sums up the entire success of the Sprint project that these expensive buses haven't turned a wheel in months and as a result the Walsall Road is now regularly frequented by knackered 17 year old Omnilinks. Another one for the NXWM/TfWM/BCC success portfolio.
Another anti-NX dig!
At least the 17 year old Omnilinks can do a full day in service! I'd much rather a full Omnilink over an unreliable Hydrogen from a passengers perspective.
Again anything to have a dig when there's no missing gaps in service I see!
Suppose once the electrics enter service at PB they could transfer some doubles from PB to WA short term to help with cover for the hydrogens
Quote from: Straightlines on May 25, 2024, 09:24:01 AMIt sums up the entire success of the Sprint project that these expensive buses haven't turned a wheel in months and as a result the Walsall Road is now regularly frequented by knackered 17 year old Omnilinks. Another one for the NXWM/TfWM/BCC success portfolio.
Far more successful than TGB, at least they're still running / in business.
Quote from: winston on May 25, 2024, 10:51:44 PMFar more successful than TGB, at least they're still running / in business.
NXWM is only still going because of huge government handouts, far as National express is concerned they have asset stripped WMT sold garages/property off then leased them back, buses are all on lease from 2009 i believe.
The big changes from jan 2025 should be interesting.
Quote from: 2900 on May 26, 2024, 11:17:02 AMNXWM is only still going because of huge government handouts, far as National express is concerned they have asset stripped WMT sold garages/property off then leased them back, buses are all on lease from 2009 i believe.
The big changes from jan 2025 should be interesting.
What big changes are these?
Is that when the BSIP funding protecting the network in its current form runs out?
Quote from: Straightlines on May 25, 2024, 09:24:01 AMIt sums up the entire success of the Sprint project that these expensive buses haven't turned a wheel in months and as a result the Walsall Road is now regularly frequented by knackered 17 year old Omnilinks. Another one for the NXWM/TfWM/BCC success portfolio.
They're hardly "knackered" by any stretch (depending upon your definition of knackered). They are still fit for purpose, still revenue earning buses covering a timetable.
Quote from: Jack on May 25, 2024, 09:02:43 PMAnother anti-NX dig!
At least the 17 year old Omnilinks can do a full day in service! I'd much rather a full Omnilink over an unreliable Hydrogen from a passengers perspective.
Again anything to have a dig when there's no missing gaps in service I see!
Well said
@Jack - even with a fleet of new buses missing, there's very little lost mileage on the route with other buses covering.
Quote from: Mayfield on May 25, 2024, 08:51:27 AMSo that's a different reason to what you stated on May 20th, so why come back with a snide remark, it doesn't mater where I live I'm interested and maybe I want to travel to Birmingham to have a ride on one as I haven't had chance yet.
I didn't think the remark was snide at all. If you don't live in the West Midlands (assuming you don't), it won't affect you. I don't live in London so any contract negotiations to their prices wouldn't affect me.
@Tony was stating a point of fact.
I haven't ridden on the NX versions but would like to just as you would - I'm sure we'd all agree that it is frustrating (none moreso for NX) but I'm sure they'll be worth the full time addition when they are eventually in service.
I rode on the NX Hydrogen vehicles and I have one word to describe them - superb! The ride and performance were excellent - we swept up the long climb from Perry Barr to the motorway junction with effortless speed. If the supply of hydrogen could be as assured as diesel refuelling or battery recharging we'd see more of them around the country.
Are there [m]any hydrogen powered LGV's/HGV's ??
H1006 currently on the way to Tyseley for fuel
Quote from: Tony on May 30, 2024, 10:51:26 AMH1006 currently on the way to Tyseley for fuel
I've just seen it I think, passing miller street heading towards Perry Barr and Walsall.
Quote from: Tony on May 30, 2024, 10:51:26 AMH1006 currently on the way to Tyseley for fuel
I take it these will be back in service from Monday once the kids are back at school. Any ideas on how many they planning on using in a day?
Quote from: PB50 on May 30, 2024, 07:28:48 PMI take it these will be back in service from Monday once the kids are back at school. Any ideas on how many they planning on using in a day?
Because the refuelling isn't into the running board again yet they will only be used if needed
Quote from: Tony on May 30, 2024, 07:31:36 PMBecause the refuelling isn't into the running board again yet they will only be used if needed
Thanks for that information Tony.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but can the hydrogen buses be used on anything as long as it's suitable like 4s can't due to Sandwell and Dudley bridge, but could they do like the 29 not like you would want to put them on there with vandalism. Or brownhills rota.
Quote from: Tony on May 30, 2024, 07:31:36 PMBecause the refuelling isn't into the running board again yet they will only be used if needed
With a diesel bus when it's refuelled the tank will stay full until it's used, is that the same with hydrogen buses or does hydrogen deplete if not used? And does the hydrogen actually power the bus like diesel does with an engine or is it more to power a battery/cell?
Quote from: Wba_lad on May 30, 2024, 11:11:10 PMSorry if this is a stupid question but can the hydrogen buses be used on anything as long as it's suitable like 4s can't due to Sandwell and Dudley bridge, but could they do like the 29 not like you would want to put them on there with vandalism. Or brownhills rota.
They are funded by Birmingham City Council, so they have should be used on the Birmingham services...
Quote from: Gareth on May 30, 2024, 11:36:31 PMWith a diesel bus when it's refuelled the tank will stay full until it's used, is that the same with hydrogen buses or does hydrogen deplete if not used? And does the hydrogen actually power the bus like diesel does with an engine or is it more to power a battery/cell?
There's virtually no loss while they are not used.
The buses work exactly the same way as a battery electric but the batteries are charged while in use through generation by a fuel cell
Quote from: Tony on May 31, 2024, 05:59:58 AMThe buses work exactly the same way as a battery electric but the batteries are charged while in use through generation by a fuel cell
Yes, Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle (FCEV) is the correct technical description for these hydrogen buses.
As opposed to Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV) such as the Electroliner and ADL Enviro400EV.
H1013 is another now fuelled and available when required. Two a day next week will be done, but probably not used
QuoteThey are funded by Birmingham City Council, so they have should be used on the Birmingham services...
So technically, as the 6 and 77 go into Sutton, which is a BCC area, they can be used on there?
Quote from: the trainbasher on May 31, 2024, 05:29:07 PMSo technically, as the 6 and 77 go into Sutton, which is a BCC area, they can be used on there?
Do they serve Birmingham City Centre? No.
They was purchased for the 51, if they was seen to be on Walsall locals and others service that don't service the City Centre I'm sure that wouldn't be going down too well.
QuoteDo they serve Birmingham City Centre? No.
They was purchased for the 51, if they was seen to be on Walsall locals and others service that don't service the City Centre I'm sure that wouldn't be going down too well.
They serve the Birmingham City Council area (Sutton, despite many folks forgetting, is a Birmingham City Council ran town, same with Erdington), and BCC funded them, (and isn't there a 77 board which has a X15 on it?).
Not everything revolves around Birmingham centre you know!
Quote from: the trainbasher on May 31, 2024, 06:19:16 PMThey serve the Birmingham City Council area (Sutton, despite many folks forgetting, is a Birmingham City Council ran town, same with Erdington), and BCC funded them, (and isn't there a 77 board which has a X15 on it?).
Not everything revolves around Birmingham centre you know!
The 77 is a single decker service which has a board on the X15. It's a 10 board that does the 6 then X15. And I'm certainly sure NX don't want them being trashed by the youths on the 10?!
Also they are refuelled at Tyseley during their daytime boards, are you expecting one to trot from Brownhills to Tyseley to refuel? That would be a lot of dead mileage.
personally i would like to see at least 1 Electric & 1 Hydrogen do a stint on the Outer Circle (Just Saying) my opinion doesn't matter anyway, wouldn't be hard to put 1 electric on there, i know AG can't charge them but maybe as PB used to have them 1 board could go temporarily to PB to run it ? :police:
Quote from: Tony on May 31, 2024, 10:04:19 AMH1013 is another now fuelled and available when required. Two a day next week will be done, but probably not used
Am I missing something here, these have not been used for the best part of 6 months, they are now being prepared for service still with no plans to use them.
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on May 31, 2024, 08:12:59 PMpersonally i would like to see at least 1 Electric & 1 Hydrogen do a stint on the Outer Circle (Just Saying) my opinion doesn't matter anyway, wouldn't be hard to put 1 electric on there, i know AG can't charge them but maybe as PB used to have them 1 board could go temporarily to PB to run it ? :police:
It may have been last year or the year before, but one electric bus did do a stint on the Outer Circle the once, I believe it was arranged as a 'treat' for a retiring bus driver at AG.
Quote from: Mayfield on May 31, 2024, 08:35:00 PMAm I missing something here, these have not been used for the best part of 6 months, they are now being prepared for service still with no plans to use them.
Have a look back through this thread for the answers - most have been sitting around idle for several months and are probably low on fuel, so will need to be driven to Tyseley for refuelling, before they can even start a day's service.
Then the running boards/duty rotas will need to be adjusted again to factor in the driving to Tyseley out-of-service to refuel before heading back to Walsall garage.
Quote from: Stu on May 31, 2024, 08:54:55 PMIt may have been last year or the year before, but one electric bus did do a stint on the Outer Circle the once, I believe it was arranged as a 'treat' for a retiring bus driver at AG.
Have a look back through this thread for the answers - most have been sitting around idle for several months and are probably low on fuel, so will need to be driven to Tyseley for refuelling, before they can even start a day's service.
Then the running boards/duty rotas will need to be adjusted again to factor in the driving to Tyseley out-of-service to refuel before heading back to Walsall garage.
At least 3 are out of MoT as well as they didn't have enough fuel to get them to the testing station
Stupid question not being familiar with the technology, can they be arranged to be filled on site (which I'm sure you'll say no) or will they have to be recovered to the fuelling facility
Quote from: Mayfield on June 01, 2024, 08:24:25 AMStupid question not being familiar with the technology, can they be arranged to be filled on site (which I'm sure you'll say no) or will they have to be recovered to the fuelling facility
Could do either but a tow to Tyseley is cheaper than a tanker to Walsall
Quote from: Tony on June 01, 2024, 12:09:22 PMCould do either but a tow to Tyseley is cheaper than a tanker to Walsall
Would a tanker do several buses though? That's how Metrobus were keeping their partial fleet running at Crawley whilst the debacle over their fuelling station H and S permission has been rumbling on.
Re the NXWM hydrogens, I've never travelled on one but from the videos posted on line they sound rattle free and supremely quiet - no doubt Electroliners would be also - maybe we'll see some of those at some stage.
I would have though NX were relying on/hoping that hydrogen power would enable their coach fleet to go fully green so this experience with the buses at Walsall is no doubt providing must valuable experience. Or maybe the range of electrics will continue to improve.
obviously i know about the refueling problems, with Hydrogen's and believe me my only criticism is the lack of use, but after 3 years and at one time stating at least another 100 to be ordered, have we seen the end of this white elephant now, or are plans still in place to persist with them in future ?
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on June 01, 2024, 04:43:49 PMobviously i know about the refueling problems, with Hydrogen's and believe me my only criticism is the lack of use, but after 3 years and at one time stating at least another 100 to be ordered, have we seen the end of this white elephant now, or are plans still in place to persist with them in future ?
This was answered earlier in this thread, on page 41:
https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?msg=328468
(You must have seen that as you quoted my comments! :laugh: )
Quote from: Stu on June 01, 2024, 05:09:49 PMThis was answered earlier in this thread, on page 41:
https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?msg=328468
(You must have seen that as you quoted my comments! :laugh: )
ah there you have me, now i have read more, i see my question may have seemed a little pointless, i had not read the article i am grateful to you pointing it out as i have now and im upto speed on it, i confess i do not spend much time on here i dip in and out, just to see what is happening i go for unread topics, when i think Ive seen all i want i depart, but this is not an everyday thing, i apologize for dipping in & out occasionally, im nosey and inquisitive i like to know whats happening, i hate to think im missing something.
Any updates in hydrogen buses?
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on June 21, 2024, 06:53:05 PMAny updates in hydrogen buses?
Which excuse would you like today?
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on June 21, 2024, 06:53:05 PMAny updates in hydrogen buses?
I did see H1004 returning from fueling a few days ago.
Low Mileage, 1 operator from new, very economical to run, little to no maintenance has been required on these vehicles so far, could be in service virtually straight away, serious enquiries only :grin:
Wonder if Wright's have put a tender in to convert them to full electric
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on June 22, 2024, 02:42:36 PMLow Mileage, 1 operator from new, very economical to run, little to no maintenance has been required on these vehicles so far, could be in service virtually straight away, serious enquiries only :grin:
Purchaser must like a challenge on a daily basis, have 20 spare buses and of course be slightly unhinged
Hydrogen H1009 in service on x51 left wabs at 0545 to city.
Quote from: Lynx1103 on June 26, 2024, 06:00:24 AMHydrogen H1009 in service on x51 left wabs at 0545 to city.
According to bus times H1013 is on the 0648 from Pheasey
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 26, 2024, 06:51:27 AMAccording to bus times H1013 is on the 0648 from Walsall.
This is why you shouldn't bustimes spot... H1013 is in Pheasey waiting to start the 997, not in Walsall...
Quote from: Jack on June 26, 2024, 06:55:39 AMThis is why you shouldn't bustimes spot... H1013 is in Pheasey waiting to start the 997, not in Walsall...
Yes you correct, now corrected
Finally the hydrogens are coming back into service after a good couple of months off. Glad they managed to figure it
A couple of months, how about 6, wasn't mentioned on here probably scared something would stop it happening, let see how long they last, I give it a week
Quote from: Mayfield on June 26, 2024, 08:30:03 AMA couple of months, how about 6, wasn't mentioned on here probably scared something would stop it happening, let see how long they last, I give it a week
Obviously the timetables have been changed so they can refuel them. If the timetables haven't been changed then they must have a lot of buses out of action currently which will mean we won't see them out much.
Quote from: Lynx1103 on June 26, 2024, 06:00:24 AMHydrogen H1009 in service on x51 left wabs at 0545 to city.
Not been in service for months and they've still managed to send it out not tracking, well done.
I think I'll be to optimist on here, the glass is half full, not half empty:
It's great to see them out again, hopefully leading to a long term plan going forward.
NX clearly frustrated by the situation but in the circumstances they did what they could to get them back into service.
I'm optimistically looking forward seeing them on a regular basis.
Quote from: Mayfield on June 26, 2024, 08:40:17 AMNot been in service for months and they've still managed to send it out not tracking, well done.
And so what if its not tracking still doesn't stop it from going out to complete mileage, electrical issues can occur at any given second without warning
Quote from: Mayfield on June 26, 2024, 08:30:03 AMA couple of months, how about 6, wasn't mentioned on here probably scared something would stop it happening, let see how long they last, I give it a week
Now they are slowly coming back to use, it's the same people moaning they weren't in use and now moaning again.
Some people on here clearly have nothing else better to do but to moan about what issues are out of a companies hand.
Quote from: Jack on June 26, 2024, 11:06:22 AMNow they are slowly coming back to use, it's the same people moaning they weren't in use and now moaning again.
Some people on here clearly have nothing else better to do but to moan about what issues are out of a companies hand.
It's not about whose hands the issue is in. It's the fact it's issue after issue after issue after issue.
We're all enthusiasts here, we all want the best possible buses running the best possible service. It's been nearly three years.
Much as I'd love to see Hydrogens galore out daily I think the fact that the company has indicated that it will acquire no more shows they are almost as pessimistic as some of us here.
Quote from: 2900 on June 26, 2024, 09:51:38 AMAnd so what if its not tracking still doesn't stop it from going out to complete mileage, electrical issues can occur at any given second without warning
Really, do you view everything through rose tinted glasses
Few out this morning on peak boards
H1010 spotted Elmore Green Road Bloxwich around 430pm today.
Quote from: Westy on June 27, 2024, 05:32:53 PMH1010 spotted Elmore Green Road Bloxwich around 430pm today.
I wonder where that has been.
Wolverhampton for MOT
H1004 currently on its way to Cannock, having just left Walsall.
H1009 and H1013 on 997, don't know how long they're gonna be out for. H1009 is currently on the 0648 from Pheasey
Quote from: BusDriverBosh on June 28, 2024, 07:12:32 AMH1009 and H1013 on 997, don't know how long they're gonna be out for. H1009 is currently on the 0648 from Pheasey
Is H1009 likely to be tracked soon?
Lovely ride on H1006 on the 997 to City. Are these just sticking to AM peak boards at the moment? Annoyingly arrived 10 minutes late.
H1001 on an X51 to Cannock just pulled into Walsall Bus Station.
H1008 sitting in Bridge St currently saying not in service. Is this being used for driver training?
Quote from: PB50 on August 07, 2024, 11:06:06 AMH1008 sitting in Bridge St currently saying not in service. Is this being used for driver training?
Yes
H1013 just left Walsall on a 997.
Why are only a couple used each day and why don't H1008/9 track
Quote from: Mayfield on August 15, 2024, 11:49:04 AMWhy are only a couple used each day and why don't H1008/9 track
As far as I'm aware they have to wait for the new timetables to come in to force which then will have the running boards so they have time to refuel them when they get to Birmingham. So I'm hoping in September we will start to see them again but we will just have to wait and see.
Quote from: Westy on August 29, 2024, 06:42:21 AMSame today too!
Because the same two boards are always the ones operated by Hydrogen buses. Next week that will hopefully rise to 6 with 5 out all day
H1008 used to commemorate former NX employee who leaves the company after 20 years (bespoke blinds showing "Matt Jukes - 20 years and out".
Matt was instrumental in leading charitable support to many organisations - good luck Matt - thanks for your support!!!
Quote from: Tony on August 29, 2024, 06:58:27 AMBecause the same two boards are always the ones operated by Hydrogen buses. Next week that will hopefully rise to 6 with 5 out all day
With 5 hopefully being out all day will that mean the double deckers that have been used on the 51 covering for the hydrogen buses, will end up on other services like the 7 & 10 service.
Quote from: PB50 on August 31, 2024, 10:36:33 AMWith 5 hopefully being out all day will that mean the double deckers that have been used on the 51 covering for the hydrogen buses, will end up on other services like the 7 & 10 service.
Maybe for a day or two until they're all off the road again.
The fuel station will have a meltdown if you try and refuel 6 in a day
Quote from: Mayfield on August 31, 2024, 05:15:30 PMThe fuel station will have a meltdown if you try and refuel 6 in a day
The fuel station is producing plenty of hydrogen at the moment. It's filling tankers and sending them to Liverpool & Crawley for the hydrogen buses there.
I didn't think the Liverpool ones had entered service yet but as usual stand to be corrected
Quote from: Mayfield on August 31, 2024, 06:56:29 PMI didn't think the Liverpool ones had entered service yet but as usual stand to be corrected
Stagecoach haven't but Arrival have
Every days a school day didn't even realise Arriva had hydrogens
Quote from: Mayfield on August 31, 2024, 09:56:30 PMEvery days a school day didn't even realise Arriva had hydrogens
4900-4909, see fleetlist here:
https://bustimes.org/operators/arriva-merseyside/vehicles
Quote from: Tony on April 30, 2021, 06:57:37 PMDetails of the 20 Hydrogen buses due later this year are here
http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/fleetlist/H1001.html
👍
H1009, H1010, H1011, H1018, H1019 & H1020 all out this morning
Quote from: Tony on September 02, 2024, 08:29:20 AMH1009, H1010, H1011, H1018, H1019 & H1020 all out this morning
That's good news then. Will have to look out for them later on.
Saw the fire service in attendance at an unidentified hydrogen bus this evening around 18:00.
Walsall road , Great Barr (Walsall bound). Just before the Old Walsall road turning.
Anyone know anything?
Quote from: wmacb13 on September 04, 2024, 09:54:19 PMSaw the fire service in attendance at an unidentified hydrogen bus this evening around 18:00.
Walsall road , Great Barr (Walsall bound). Just before the Old Walsall road turning.
Anyone know anything?
According to bustimes.org H1018 stopped tracking on a 51 service at about that time in the location you saw the hydrogen bus so it may have been that one.
any updates on these paperweights yet ?
any closer to getting the lot into traffic....
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on September 18, 2024, 05:54:36 PMany updates on these paperweights yet ?
any closer to getting the lot into traffic....
As previously reported by Tony, there are several out in service daily now.
Quote from: Stu on September 18, 2024, 06:06:46 PMAs previously reported by Tony, there are several out in service daily now.
Up to six a day but only Monday to Friday. Only saw 3 though today on the 51 so others must have been on the 997.
The stars were all in alignment today and actually managed to sample one of the hydrogen buses for the first time. My short journey was on 1006 (1011/12/20 also spotted).
I was really impressed with the quality. Seem well built and quite sprightly. I won't mention the absolute nonsense that is the lower deck seating layout, but everything else was very good!
H1015 is currently at the fueling station ready for a return to service next week. That was the only one that hadn't run since they were all of the road earlier this year.
does this mean theyre actually going to see service ?
must get into Birmingham with my camera if they are, as they probably wont last long
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 29, 2024, 05:05:45 PMdoes this mean theyre actually going to see service ?
must get into Birmingham with my camera if they are, as they probably wont last long
It means they've all seen service.
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on October 29, 2024, 05:05:45 PMdoes this mean theyre actually going to see service ?
must get into Birmingham with my camera if they are, as they probably wont last long
H1015 was the only hydrogen bus to not see service since the fuel shortage
I take it there is a fuelling problem currently as I didn't see any hydrogen buses out yesterday and bustimes today isn't showing any running.
Might seem a silly question but does Hydrogen stand a risk of Freezing when we get really cold weather do they store it as a liquid which in the most case would be mostly Water or is it like Vodka which again is mostly water but doesn't freeze. Not suggesting Hydrogen is Vodka asking if it has stuff in it like Vodka to not freeze
Quote from: BlackCountryBusSpotter on November 13, 2024, 09:43:47 AMMight seem a silly question but does Hydrogen stand a risk of Freezing when we get really cold weather do they store it as a liquid which in the most case would be mostly Water or is it like Vodka which again is mostly water but doesn't freeze. Not suggesting Hydrogen is Vodka asking if it has stuff in it like Vodka to not freeze
Hydrogen is stored at temperatures below -250c due to its boiling point being -252c so i doubt cold weather is going to be any sort of issues
Quote from: EK40 on November 13, 2024, 02:49:51 PMHydrogen is stored at temperatures below -250c due to its boiling point being -252c so i doubt cold weather is going to be any sort of issues
Oh fair enough
H1009 out on 51 02 today
Quote from: Lynx1103 on November 25, 2024, 05:56:28 AMH1009 out on 51 02 today
H1006 also on there
H1009 was one of the longest 'not tracking' vehicles in the fleet but has now been fixed
What's the problem with these now
Quote from: Mayfield on January 02, 2025, 06:41:42 PMWhat's the problem with these now
If they are not being used, maybe a lower PVR due to Saturday timetables so they stay in garage until next week
Quote from: Mayfield on January 02, 2025, 06:41:42 PMWhat's the problem with these now
Nothing's wrong with them, same as nothing is wrong with BC's 3 electrics which haven't been out. It's just easier not to use them.
When six are in use that's two driver's duties taking 3 each to the fuelling station, not using them allows two more driver's to have holidays with their families
Would have been even easier if BCC hadn't bought them with there green tinted glasses on.
QuoteWould have been even easier if BCC hadn't bought them with there green tinted glasses on.
I don't see the problem with hydrogen though, it's a great idea, just isn't ready yet
That's the whole point, its not ready and hasn't progressed in 4 years or possibly even gone backwards in that time.
Green tinted glasses, no planning, no idea and no common sense, just buy them so we look good to the eco warriors.
Quote from: Mayfield on January 03, 2025, 04:05:13 PMThat's the whole point, its not ready and hasn't progressed in 4 years or possibly even gone backwards in that time.
Green tinted glasses, no planning, no idea and no common sense, just buy them so we look good to the eco warriors.
That's fine, it's BCC's problem, NX will just use them when they can.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 03, 2025, 04:40:00 PMThat's fine, it's BCC's problem, NX will just use them when they can.
Do you have shares in Mobico or something given your constant staunch defence of them?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 03, 2025, 04:40:00 PMThat's fine, it's BCC's problem, NX will just use them when they can.
Is it fine? Really? 20 life expired buses could potentially have been withdrawn by now were it not for this fiasco, not to mention the amount of single deckers constantly being used on the Walsall to Birmingham routes while the Hydrogens are out of use.
Quote from: Marge559 on January 03, 2025, 05:39:52 PMIs it fine? Really? 20 life expired buses could potentially have been withdrawn by now were it not for this fiasco, not to mention the amount of single deckers constantly being used on the Walsall to Birmingham routes while the Hydrogens are out of use.
It's horrible at peak times when you have to catch a single Decker and it's absolutely rammed because everyone just wants to get home.
Quote from: Marge559 on January 03, 2025, 05:39:52 PMIs it fine? Really? 20 life expired buses could potentially have been withdrawn by now were it not for this fiasco, not to mention the amount of single deckers constantly being used on the Walsall to Birmingham routes while the Hydrogens are out of use.
Quote from: Marge559 on January 03, 2025, 05:39:52 PMIs it fine? Really? 20 life expired buses could potentially have been withdrawn by now were it not for this fiasco, not to mention the amount of single deckers constantly being used on the Walsall to Birmingham routes while the Hydrogens are out of use.
I agree with both of you as far as life expired buses are concerned and having to use single deckers on routes normally operated by double deckers, but what is NX supposed to do? the Hydrogens belong to BCC so the blame lies with them, but I think a decision needs to be made about these buses.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 03, 2025, 06:08:52 PMI agree with both of you as far as life expired buses are concerned and having to use single deckers on routes normally operated by double deckers, but what is NX supposed to do? the Hydrogens belong to BCC so the blame lies with them, but I think a decision needs to be made about these buses.
Can't they return them to BCC?
Quote from: Straightlines on January 03, 2025, 05:03:40 PMDo you have shares in Mobico or something given your constant staunch defence of them?
I would imagine that NX find this situation just as much of a headache as other operators of hydrogen buses are having.
NX didn't buy these buses, as was well publicised at the time they were bought by Birmingham City Council with ZEBRA funding that they had been awarded. I can only assume that NX have them under some lease/rental agreement with BCC.
I don't know the full ins and outs of the legalities and terms that were agreed, but I can imagine that NX were given assurances by BCC that there would be no issues with supplies of hydrogen, after all part of the funding that BCC received also went towards the Energy Park in Tyseley.
It's worth noting that while NX were keen to invest further in hydrogen vehicles at the time, following this experience they have declined the opportunity to purchase more of them, preferring to invest in battery-electric instead.
This isn't about 'defending' NX, this is looking at the situation pragmatically and objectively.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on January 03, 2025, 06:13:22 PMCan't they return them to BCC?
There's probably an option somewhere, it will depend on whatever lease/rental agreement they have with BCC, and what it would potentially cost to 'break' that agreement.
Ultimately then the challenge would be what would BCC do with these buses? Offer them to another operator to use? I doubt very much that BCC would have an option to 'sell them on', as I imagine there are also terms and conditions regarding the ZEBRA funding award, after all at the end of the day it's not "free money".
Quote from: Stu on January 03, 2025, 06:41:24 PMI would imagine that NX find this situation just as much of a headache as other operators of hydrogen buses are having.
NX didn't buy these buses, as was well publicised at the time they were bought by Birmingham City Council with ZEBRA funding that they had been awarded. I can only assume that NX have them under some lease/rental agreement with BCC.
I don't know the full ins and outs of the legalities and terms that were agreed, but I can imagine that NX were given assurances by BCC that there would be no issues with supplies of hydrogen, after all part of the funding that BCC received also went towards the Energy Park in Tyseley.
It's worth noting that while NX were keen to invest further in hydrogen vehicles at the time, following this experience they have declined the opportunity to purchase more of them, preferring to invest in battery-electric instead.
This isn't about 'defending' NX, this is looking at the situation pragmatically and objectively.
There's probably an option somewhere, it will depend on whatever lease/rental agreement they have with BCC, and what it would potentially cost to 'break' that agreement.
Ultimately then the challenge would be what would BCC do with these buses? Offer them to another operator to use? I doubt very much that BCC would have an option to 'sell them on', as I imagine there are also terms and conditions regarding the ZEBRA funding award, after all at the end of the day it's not "free money".
Did NX have any kind of thought process before attempting to buy them
I wonder (and this is not a fever dream, it was in the Express & Star) if the plan for WMCA to generate hydrogen at Walsall depot from water sourced from the Wyrley & Essington Canal is still planned to go ahead?
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on January 03, 2025, 06:45:35 PMDid NX have any kind of thought process before attempting to buy them
Why not read the post?
NX didn't buy them
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2025, 06:57:10 PMWhy not read the post?
NX didn't buy them
Or whatever they did
Did they not think about the consequences prior to getting a hold of them
Quote from: Ingleboro261F on January 03, 2025, 09:46:26 PMOr whatever they did
Did they not think about the consequences prior to getting a hold of them
Read the post
It's all explained
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2025, 10:08:12 PMRead the post
It's all explained
My post? I was only guessing and making assumptions to be honest, so there's some truth to my assumptions then?
(That would be a first! :grin: )
Hydrogen buses back out in service today but only on peak boards. Seen 2 on the X51 this afternoon.
2 out of twenty, well that's spectacular (poor)
I was just wondering what was happening with the hydrogen buses at the moment because I haven't seen any out for few days.
Quote from: PB50 on January 14, 2025, 07:53:25 AMI was just wondering what was happening with the hydrogen buses at the moment because I haven't seen any out for few days.
How many times do people ask these questions and people respond?
Will these be coming back out soon? Had kinda thought when the half term ended they might be back but so far nothing.
4 weeks since one has been used, what a joke, same old same old excuses I bet
Quote4 weeks since one has been used, what a joke, same old same old excuses I bet
at this point just return them to BCC, most likley eating up money and just sitting there while they could've been in service generating profits.
Could they not just transfer them to a garage that is closer to the refueling station until WA can eventually fuel hydrogens?
Quote from: Ronnoc on February 27, 2025, 08:18:34 AMCould they not just transfer them to a garage that is closer to the refueling station until WA can eventually fuel hydrogens?
Im surprised they didnt go to BC, as that's fairly near the place, Tysley, is it, where they refuel?
Quote from: Ronnoc on February 27, 2025, 08:18:34 AMCould they not just transfer them to a garage that is closer to the refueling station until WA can eventually fuel hydrogens?
Doesn't make much difference if the fuelling station can't produce fuel
Quote from: Westy on February 27, 2025, 10:12:26 AMIm surprised they didnt go to BC, as that's fairly near the place, Tysley, is it, where they refuel?
AG would be closest, but theyre doing a good job erm........ ah weight testing the floor & proving the suspension is good enough {duck for cover} :embarrassed: