Hydrogen vehicles

[Mayfield]

Is it still fuelling issue still keeping the hydrogens out of service 

[BBS]

I can't imagine that will ever happen. Mainly as the cost would probably be massive too.

Going underground bordseley green sounds like more than just a challenge, the articulated buses are going to be a mess, fare evaders are already a major major issue, and these buses are like no barriers at all for them 

[cardew]

Amazing that it took until last August for WMCA to request the funding be changed from hydrogen when the issues with the 2021 Walsall ones had been apparent for ages.

https://www.route-one.net/news/zebra-standard-track-198m-for-943-zero-emission-buses/

When the funding was announced, Oxford was awarded £32million for 159 ZEBs - they are all in service as far as I can tell
Three years on, WMCA have nothing in service and the funding has gone from £30million to £15.5miillion

Is it just me or should someone not be accountable for this?

[Mayfield]

No one is ever held accountable for pubic service disasters they move on to the next one.

[Tony]

Oxford funding was for electric city the same as Coventry, and plenty of vehicles in service in Coventry 

[cardew]

Oxford funding was for electric city the same as Coventry, and plenty of vehicles in service in Coventry

True, but the Coventry project had £50 million of government funds confirmed in March 2021 (see link), twelve months before the ZEBRA £30 million  I was referring was awarded.  Unless of course it's smoke and mirrors.

https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/green-light-for-coventry-to-become-the-uk-s-first-all-electric-bus-city

I'll won't annoy the forum on the subject any more but something is not right and it is taxpayer money.

[karl724223]

True, but the Coventry project had £50 million of government funds confirmed in March 2021 (see link), twelve months before the ZEBRA £30 million  I was referring was awarded.  Unless of course it's smoke and mirrors.

https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/green-light-for-coventry-to-become-the-uk-s-first-all-electric-bus-city

I'll won't annoy the forum on the subject any more but something is not right and it is taxpayer money.

With Joe 90s nightmare sorry dream get used to taxpayers money being spent loads of it 

[Stu]

Amazing that it took until last August for WMCA to request the funding be changed from hydrogen when the issues with the 2021 Walsall ones had been apparent for ages.

https://www.route-one.net/news/zebra-standard-track-198m-for-943-zero-emission-buses/

When the funding was announced, Oxford was awarded £32million for 159 ZEBs - they are all in service as far as I can tell
Three years on, WMCA have nothing in service and the funding has gone from £30million to £15.5miillion

Is it just me or should someone not be accountable for this?

As I understand it, in the case of the WMCA, because the money has not been spent within the allocated timeframe, that is the reason why the funding has been reduced.

In reality, it's all 'virtual money', WMCA haven't been sitting on this money all this time, there's nothing being 'physically' paid back.

From a business point of view, I completely understand NX's reticence to pursue investment in further hydrogen vehicles. Interesting also that no other operator has stepped forward to do so, considering the funding that was available.

But then with franchising on the horizon, the next couple of years will see a 'limbo', a vacuum of sorts, given the current commercial situation, who's going to want to invest huge sums of money in buying new vehicles when it could all be taken away from them?

[Rachvince53]

An underground system?

Yes. A number of years ago the idea of building an underground like already exists in London or Glasgow was seriously proposed. 

[Ronnoc]

Yes. A number of years ago the idea of building an underground like already exists in London or Glasgow was seriously proposed.

It's not a terrible idea, a city the size of Birmingham deserves an underground metro system to boost its economy and tackle the over-reliance on cars. The only issues are to do with political willpower and cost.

[Isle of Stroma]

The only issues are to do with political willpower and cost.

Cost (& inconvenience) - you'd need to go deep enough to avoid pre-existing underground 'developments'...

There's also been ideas raised & binned in the past for more X-City Rail tunnels for the (assumed) London-Wolverhampton & Redditch - Lichfield lines.

[Ronnoc]

Cost (& inconvenience) - you'd need to go deep enough to avoid pre-existing underground 'developments'...

There's also been ideas raised & binned in the past for more X-City Rail tunnels for the (assumed) London-Wolverhampton & Redditch - Lichfield lines.

That's also true. However, these kind of developments would not only massively boost the West Midlands economy, but supplement the bus network. Unlike the gimmicky pretend tram sprint hydrogen bus corridor. The billions spent in will pay for itself quickly, just like the Elizabeth Line.

[Tony]

That's also true. However, these kind of developments would not only massively boost the West Midlands economy, but supplement the bus network. Unlike the gimmicky pretend tram sprint hydrogen bus corridor. The billions spent in will pay for itself quickly, just like the Elizabeth Line.

Except I can't actually see where you would build an underground line to that would be worth spending the money on.

The putting a couple of extra platforms underneath New Street for the cross city line, which is the plan @Isle of Stroma mentioned would be useful for extra capacity at New Street, but the only two other corridors out of Birmingham that would justify a new railway are Harborne & Chelmsley Wood. Chelmsley could be served by far cheaper by building a branch line off the Derby line near the old Castle Bromwich Station with stations serving Bromford and Castle Vale. If you built the extra underground platforms at New Street for the cross city, that would also allow for a short underground section to Harborne & Bartley Green.

[Ronnoc]

Except I can't actually see where you would build an underground line to that would be worth spending the money on.

The putting a couple of extra platforms underneath New Street for the cross city line, which is the plan @Isle of Stroma mentioned would be useful for extra capacity at New Street, but the only two other corridors out of Birmingham that would justify a new railway are Harborne & Chelmsley Wood. Chelmsley could be served by far cheaper by building a branch line off the Derby line near the old Castle Bromwich Station with stations serving Bromford and Castle Vale. If you built the extra underground platforms at New Street for the cross city, that would also allow for a short underground section to Harborne & Bartley Green.

One of the busiest railway corridors outside of London is from Wolverhampton to Birmingham, which may justify a new line between the two, serving the likes of Sedgley, Dudley, Londonderry, Bearwood (areas far from current railway lines).

[Tony]

One of the busiest railway corridors outside of London is from Wolverhampton to Birmingham, which may justify a new line between the two, serving the likes of Sedgley, Dudley, Londonderry, Bearwood (areas far from current railway lines).

Whole I agree with Bearwood, which could be included in the Harborne line I mentioned above, there's always two heavy rail and one light rail  between Birmingham and Wolverhampton and soon to be light rail from Dudley to Wolverhampton/Birmingham  so no way would that justify the expense of an underground line