Hydrogen vehicles

[PB50]

I thought I'd read they could refuel 4 a day now somewhere on here. Noticed none out today which surprised me.

[Gareth]

I thought I'd read they could refuel 4 a day now somewhere on here. Noticed none out today which surprised me.

None in service shouldn't be a surprise to anyone!

[cardew]

Finally some news in the WMCA Public Document pack regarding the 124 Hydrogen buses for which a ZEBRA grant was awarded back in early 2022. It seems to be a mess resulting in a chunk of funding being lost.

The Department for Transport (DfT) wrote to Transport for West Midlands on 20th December 2024 to formally request the return of £13.2m of funding from an original allocation of £28.7m. The £13.2m was returned to DfT in March 2025. The original intention for spending the £28.7m was:
£23.2m to be spent on 100 hydrogen fuelled buses.
£5.5m to be spent on 24 articulated buses

The project scope was changed in August 2024 to purchase 300 double decker buses instead of 100 hydrogen fuelled buses. The return request therefore reduces the requirement to purchase 300 double deck buses to 130.
The £5.5m for 24 articulated buses remains unchanged. This shortfall complicates operational plans amid wider franchising uncertainty. Discussions and options are being undertaken to try and mitigate the impact of this funding reduction, with discussions around potentially utilising clean air zone monies.

[Steve3229vp]

Finally some news in the WMCA Public Document pack regarding the 124 Hydrogen buses for which a ZEBRA grant was awarded back in early 2022. It seems to be a mess resulting in a chunk of funding being lost.

The Department for Transport (DfT) wrote to Transport for West Midlands on 20th December 2024 to formally request the return of £13.2m of funding from an original allocation of £28.7m. The £13.2m was returned to DfT in March 2025. The original intention for spending the £28.7m was:
£23.2m to be spent on 100 hydrogen fuelled buses.
£5.5m to be spent on 24 articulated buses

The project scope was changed in August 2024 to purchase 300 double decker buses instead of 100 hydrogen fuelled buses. The return request therefore reduces the requirement to purchase 300 double deck buses to 130.
The £5.5m for 24 articulated buses remains unchanged. This shortfall complicates operational plans amid wider franchising uncertainty. Discussions and options are being undertaken to try and mitigate the impact of this funding reduction, with discussions around potentially utilising clean air zone monies.

Articulated will be a disaster! 

[Mike K]

Articulated will be a disaster!

An articulated hydrogen bus really would be the offspring of 2 white elephants. 

[Rachvince53]

An articulated hydrogen bus really would be the offspring of 2 white elephants.

Well it would trump some ideas the predecssors to the WMCA had such as an underground system.

[Straightlines]

Articulated will be a disaster!

Yeah... not like they are proven vehicles that have played their part in developing successful bus networks throughout Europe or anything 

[Mike K]

Yeah... not like they are proven vehicles that have played their part in developing successful bus networks throughout Europe or anything 

They undoubtedly have worked in some settings but have hardly been a success in the West Midlands. Horses for courses. 

[Stu]

An articulated hydrogen bus really would be the offspring of 2 white elephants.

I'm sure I read somewhere before that this ZEBRA funding agreement had been changed, and that the 24 articulated vehicles would be battery-electric, rather than hydrogen powered.

The longer this whole 'Sprint' shambles drags on for though, the less enthusiastic I get about it. And my enthusiasm level is already at zero.

Same as with the East Birmingham Metro extension, huge sums of money being spent for what is essentially a vanity project.

Core trunk routes, with bus lanes and other priority measures, operated by regular double-deck vehicles, that is what bus passengers both want and need. At this point in time, articulated 'tram-style' buses would just be a novelty and a gimmick.

[Ronnoc]

Well it would trump some ideas the predecssors to the WMCA had such as an underground system.

An underground system?

[Steve3229vp]

I'm sure I read somewhere before that this ZEBRA funding agreement had been changed, and that the 24 articulated vehicles would be battery-electric, rather than hydrogen powered.

The longer this whole 'Sprint' shambles drags on for though, the less enthusiastic I get about it. And my enthusiasm level is already at zero.

Same as with the East Birmingham Metro extension, huge sums of money being spent for what is essentially a vanity project.

Core trunk routes, with bus lanes and other priority measures, operated by regular double-deck vehicles, that is what bus passengers both want and need. At this point in time, articulated 'tram-style' buses would just be a novelty and a gimmick.

I couldn't agree more, articulated buses will have less seats than double deckers which means some passengers will be standing instead of sitting. Trams are great but they take far too long to build. Bus lanes and bus gates are a much better way.

[Ronnoc]

I'm sure I read somewhere before that this ZEBRA funding agreement had been changed, and that the 24 articulated vehicles would be battery-electric, rather than hydrogen powered.

The longer this whole 'Sprint' shambles drags on for though, the less enthusiastic I get about it. And my enthusiasm level is already at zero.

Same as with the East Birmingham Metro extension, huge sums of money being spent for what is essentially a vanity project.

Core trunk routes, with bus lanes and other priority measures, operated by regular double-deck vehicles, that is what bus passengers both want and need. At this point in time, articulated 'tram-style' buses would just be a novelty and a gimmick.

If the East Birmingham Metro Extension largely runs seperate from the road network then it would be very beneficial, there are a lot of unconnected areas in east Birmingham that could benefit from rapid transit.

[2206]

If the East Birmingham Metro Extension largely runs seperate from the road network then it would be very beneficial, there are a lot of unconnected areas in east Birmingham that could benefit from rapid transit.

How would you do that?
It'll probably end up mostly following the 97.

[Ronnoc]

How would you do that?
It'll probably end up mostly following the 97.

Probably underground in specific sections tbh.

[2206]

Probably underground in specific sections tbh.

I can't imagine that will ever happen. Mainly as the cost would probably be massive too.