NX Hybrids

[Discodave]

you know now you have said that a bus will now be vandlised and have a couple of windows bricked hope not but I would never tempt fate

[nx4737]

Goes to show, NX can do appearance when they want to...

[vinh1000]

8 to 9 months on and the BC Hybrids are still immaculate both inside and out, with no sign of graffiti or window etching. Is this because:
1. BC are giving these special attention compared with the rest of the fleet?
2. The 22/23 routes are less prone to vandalism than some other routes, e.g. Bristol Road, Alum Rock? or
3. A combination of the above? 

I'd suspect it's a bit of both - all routes are prone to vandalism to a degree. But it just goes to show how well buses can be maintained. 5502 lost some of its 'Turning Birmingham Green' megarear recently, presumably due to replacement window / panels but within a day or so everything had been re-applied - this is usually unheard of in the main fleet. The Hagley Road E400s were similarly maintained in their first year at BC but don't look so good now  :'(. 

Anyhow, certainly makes for a better bus travel experience.     

They look good inside if Im catching 22/23 and a hybrid does not come will wait for it :)
I personally think compared to other routes (i.e. 46 which is high prone to vandalism) it is not such a target for vandalism
Everytime I go on 46 there is some sort of graffiti or occasionally weed/alcohol smell - bus window scratches ie on omnilinks etc

[Discodave]

Memories of the old 51 with the weed smells a lot better now with operation safer travel and new buses

[Typhoon2000]

I've been taking an interest in these buses since their introduction months ago and had the opportunity to ride the ADL/BAE Enviro 400h and Volvo/Wrights. And was suitably impressed by both as a passenger, although the ADL/BAE drivetrain was much smoother.

As we know, Enviro uses a series system so that the engine acts like a generator to charge batteries which in turn powers the wheel motors (in this instance you don't technically need an Otto-cycle engine as a gas turbine could be just as, if not, more efficient).

Volvo has gone the Prius route and decided to use a smaller engine linked to a special transmission whch then goes on to drive the wheels. The transmission uses Volvo's I-Drive technology that incorporates a robotic clutch and gear selector mechanism instead of an automatic 'slush-' gearbox. What I'm not so sure of is whether electric motor is in-line of the transmission and engine or whether they are placed directly at the wheels.

As I understand it the Volvo/Wrights are preferred over the Enviro buses on the grounds of reliability and the fact that they have achieved figures very close to the manufacturers claims. The drivers appear to love driving the Volvos simply because nothing seems to go wrong. he buses themselves have good build quality (ie nothing rattles and shakes), and they are so easy to use and nice to drive. The only niggle they have stems from the I-Drive system in selecting the 1st and 2nd gear where there is an apparent noticeable time lag. Because they're the gears where the most power is required to move the vehicle the effect of the lag is more pronounced than that in the higher gears where not so much power is required when already moving. It's something the Volvo engineers are still working on through software updates etc but this appears to be a tiny niggle and doesn't affect the positive favour that the bus enjoys.

As an engineer, I'm disappointed to hear that Enviro is less economical than the Volvo as it's my preferred method of hybrid propulsion. There maybe good reasons why Enviro is less economical:

• Larger carrying capacity thus greater weight
• No stop/start function
• No option to use electric only, in congestion or moving off from stationary

The first point is self explanatory and can be cured with further engineering in later models, however the last two points are something I'm scratching my head over. With series type powertrains, you only need the engine when you need it, so for example, when the battery is flat and needs charging, when travelling up hill and you need all power to the wheels. The start/stop function should have been incorporated this and it's a glaringly obvious omission of a method of fuel saving that's been used since the early 90's.

Conditions on when stop/start should power down the engine ought to be when:

• Stationary at a bus stop
• Stationary in traffic.
• In slow moving traffic to use the battery power.
• Coasting down hill in combination with regenerative braking (this acts like a brake servo if you like), the gravity is free energy which can be transferred the the RB system to charge the battery - you don't need the generator.

These are the conditions Chevy Volt/Opel-Vauxhall Ampera operate and I'm surprised that no-one at BAE Systems or ADL have brought this up. Because the engines are operating all the time the fuel saving is much less than that of the Volvo's parallel system. With a stop/start, both vehicles are more likely to be closer to equal. Series systems are smoother too because there is no transmission and the effect of stop/start would be less noticeable - it's direct electrical drive - more development work needed I think......

[Ex BC driver]

I drove 5409 a couple of weeks ago. The only Enviro that seems to be modified with stop/start

[Nathan4775]

8 to 9 months on and the BC Hybrids are still immaculate both inside and out, with no sign of graffiti or window etching. Is this because:
1. BC are giving these special attention compared with the rest of the fleet?
2. The 22/23 routes are less prone to vandalism than some other routes, e.g. Bristol Road, Alum Rock? or
3. A combination of the above? 

I'd suspect it's a bit of both - all routes are prone to vandalism to a degree. But it just goes to show how well buses can be maintained. 5502 lost some of its 'Turning Birmingham Green' megarear recently, presumably due to replacement window / panels but within a day or so everything had been re-applied - this is usually unheard of in the main fleet. The Hagley Road E400s were similarly maintained in their first year at BC but don't look so good now  :'(. 

Anyhow, certainly makes for a better bus travel experience.     

They look good inside if Im catching 22/23 and a hybrid does not come will wait for it :)
I personally think compared to other routes (i.e. 46 which is high prone to vandalism) it is not such a target for vandalism
Everytime I go on 46 there is some sort of graffiti or occasionally weed/alcohol smell - bus window scratches ie on omnilinks etc

I remeber when the Hybird was on Loan to BC an I spotted it at 5 ways and I waited for it to go into town and come back out  ;D.


As for the 46 - Thats the Youth of Handsworth for ya

[Typhoon2000]

I drove 5409 a couple of weeks ago. The only Enviro that seems to be modified with stop/start

Oh strange you should mention that one - It passed by me as I was waiting at the stop up by Centenary square last night but couldn't really hear what the unit was doing above the noise of the rest of the traffic.

How many of each has NXWM/Centro got on the fleet just out of interest?

[winston]

I drove 5409 a couple of weeks ago. The only Enviro that seems to be modified with stop/start

How many of each has NXWM/Centro got on the fleet just out of interest?

NXWM currently have 9 x Enviro 400H (5401-9) & 9 x Volvo B5LH/Wright Gemini (5501-9) at BC garage

NXWM currently have 12 x Enviro 400H & a further 9 x Volvo B5LH/Wright Gemini on order for early 2013 delivery, at which point the Enviros will be concentrated at WN for route 1 & the Volvo's at BC for routes 22/23

[Typhoon2000]

Damn, I was hoping to see the modified Enviros on the Route 9.

I think the reason why they've been give 1, 22, 23 is probably because these are geographically challenging routes with a mix of steep up-and-downhill combinations, and a combination of traffic congested and free running roads. It'll help the engineers to build up a good picture as to the behaviour of the buses under many differing driving conditions.

One really good evaluation would be the 900 to see how well it fares over the longer contniuous operating distance.

[Roy]

NXWM currently have 12 x Enviro 400H & a further 9 x Volvo B5LH/Wright Gemini on order for early 2013 delivery, at which point the Enviros will be concentrated at WN for route 1 & the Volvo's at BC for routes 22/23

Is it 100% certain that the other 12 hybrids will be Enviro 400H's?  Volvo certainly announced in April that NXWM had ordered 9 B5LH's, but I can find no mention anywhere of any other order from NXWM for the other 12.

I think the reason why they've been give 1, 22, 23 is probably because these are geographically challenging routes with a mix of steep up-and-downhill combinations, and a combination of traffic congested and free running roads. It'll help the engineers to build up a good picture as to the behaviour of the buses under many differing driving conditions.

One really good evaluation would be the 900 to see how well it fares over the longer contniuous operating distance.

It is interesting that Brighton & Hove are going to do exactly what you are suggesting.  They will have 13 B5LH's in service within the next week or two and intend to use 11 of them on one of the busiest stop-start cross-city routes.  However the other two will be trialled on the service between Brighton and Lewes which has about 4 miles of high speed running along the A27 dual-carriageway to compare how they perform in different operating environments.   

[Tomjusttom]

I am sure I've seen one on the 13X Brighton to Eastbourne. Although i may Brighton wrong and it could have been a new B9

[winston]

NXWM currently have 12 x Enviro 400H & a further 9 x Volvo B5LH/Wright Gemini on order for early 2013 delivery, at which point the Enviros will be concentrated at WN for route 1 & the Volvo's at BC for routes 22/23

Is it 100% certain that the other 12 hybrids will be Enviro 400H's?  Volvo certainly announced in April that NXWM had ordered 9 B5LH's, but I can find no mention anywhere of any other order from NXWM for the other 12.

Roy,

There hasn't been any official announcement from NX or ADL regarding the remaining 12 being Enviro 400H, but NX do seem to be reluctant to disclose / announce new vehicle orders of late. And the fact that 9 on the 21 Hybrids are due to be Volvo's fits with the numbers of Volvo/Envrio 400H currently at BC. Dundee are expecting 10 x Enviro 400H, but again I think it was only confirmed by the Scottish Bus Fund award announcement, nothing has appeared from either NX or NED

[Andrew1991]

Wasn't there a post on here recently stating that nxwm only wanted one type of hybrid at each garage ? Meaning wn will receive 12 new enviro 400h's to go with the 9 transferred ones

[winston]

Wasn't there a post on here recently stating that nxwm only wanted one type of hybrid at each garage ? Meaning wn will receive 12 new enviro 400h's to go with the 9 transferred ones

Yes I think so, but can't remember who & where that came from. Nothing has been announced in the trade press/ on NX or NXWM websites that I'm aware of other than the 9 x Volvo's where lists as order on the Green Bus Fund award breakdown. I imagine it is exactly what will happen.....'