Blackheath Bus Services

[winston]

Yes the service really should on Bus Alliance Partnership like 42/3 31/2  as the current situation benefits no one if and it's a big if Andy Street gets reelected sadly i think the power of prayer may not be enough I understand he wants a move to more of them being set up.

Whilst a jointly operated service would benefit passengers & provide a coordinated / regular frequency, there's clearly little benefit to the operators themselves to go down that route, that's always going to be the stumbling block.

[Bus Man K2]

I wouldn't be suprised if there's a problem along the route and that's why there running arse over toe around Hayeley Green following each other. It also doesn't help its two different operators so their fighting for passengers. If only it could be brought into the 21st century by a proper partnership service like the 42/43 & 31/32. I again wouldn't be surprised if this will be the next service to become jointly operated. I haven't heard of anything, but how's to say it won't happen. There definitely needs to be more like the 42/43 & 31/32  partnerships.

[Bus Man K2]

Whilst a jointly operated service would benefit passengers & provide a coordinated / regular frequency, there's clearly little benefit to the operators themselves to go down that route, that's always going to be the stumbling block.

I don't think that's a problem. I've heard that both operators are happy with the way things are going for these routes. Not holding my breath to say that there's definite room for more like this.

[Bus Man K2]

Going back to my previous, post.

If these routes were to become a jointly operated service, it may mean that Diamond may think of reintroducing the 4M. Again not holsing my breath, but if it does come to a partnership route then who's to say they won't.

[winston]

I wouldn't be suprised if there's a problem along the route and that's why there running arse over toe around Hayeley Green following each other. It also doesn't help its two different operators so their fighting for passengers. If only it could be brought into the 21st century by a proper partnership service like the 42/43 & 31/32. I again wouldn't be surprised if this will be the next service to become jointly operated. I haven't heard of anything, but how's to say it won't happen. There definitely needs to be more like the 42/43 & 31/32  partnerships.

Same again, a Diamond, NXWM, Diamond over the space of 5 mins, oh add another NXWM 30 secs behind the last one - at least they're moving the air around. Rediculous.

Maybe things may start to run a bit smoother when the M5 Viaduct Roadways are finished, which I understand is very close.

As I said above, unless there's any benefit / incentive for operators, why should they jointly operate the route. The 4's was the service that was meant to be jointly operated, only no agreement could be reached with operators, hence why the 31/32 & 42/43 was chosen. 

[winston]

I don't think that a problem. I've heard that both operators are happy with the way things are going for these routes. Not holding my breath to say that there's definite room for more like tist.

There make be a slightly higher chance of something happening jointly with the 4's in the future, as Diamond & NXWM Pvr's are too far apart. But something like the 50's or 16's in Birmingham isn't going to happen where there's a big difference in Pvr & frequencies, why should NXWM give up lucrative revenue & profit to a competing operator?

[Bus Man K2]

Same again, a Diamond, NXWM, Diamond over the space of 5 mins, oh add another NXWM 30 secs behind the last one - at least they're moving the air around. Rediculous.

As I said above, unless there's any benefit / incentive for operators, why should they jointly operate the route. The 4's was the service that was meant to be jointly operated, only no agreement could be reached with operators, hence why the 31/32 & 42/43 was chosen.

I grant you that, but as I said from what I've heard the current services are going from strength to strength, so who's not to say that they are looking at more route one of which could be the 4's. Again not saying it won't be but there's always a chance of something.

[Trident 4194]

Same again, a Diamond, NXWM, Diamond over the space of 5 mins, oh add another NXWM 30 secs behind the last one - at least they're moving the air around. Rediculous.

As I said above, unless there's any benefit / incentive for operators, why should they jointly operate the route. The 4's was the service that was meant to be jointly operated, only no agreement could be reached with operators, hence why the 31/32 & 42/43 was chosen.

Diamond are the winning operator round here. Offering higher frequency and most of the time stick to a timetable, and therefore are winning the competition between Hayley green and blackheath. After blackheath pick up loadings decrease a lot to nx, due to there much higher frequency and people having nx travelcards. Hardly anyone round Hayley green has a only nx traveldcard, and in fact instead many purchase the diamond monthly tickets where they can get to Halesowen, Oldbury, blackheath, West Brom and merry hill. These places are typically where is folks go to shop

[winston]

I grant you that, but as I said from what I've heard the current services are going from strength to strength, so who's not to say that they are looking at more route one of which could be the 4's. Again not saying it won't be but there's always a chance of something.

That's not the version I've heard from an operators perspective, I think it may depend on who you hear it from.

[richardjones210368]

Same again, a Diamond, NXWM, Diamond over the space of 5 mins, oh add another NXWM 30 secs behind the last one - at least they're moving the air around. Rediculous.

Maybe things may start to run a bit smoother when the M5 Viaduct Roadways are finished, which I understand is very close.

As I said above, unless there's any benefit / incentive for operators, why should they jointly operate the route. The 4's was the service that was meant to be jointly operated, only no agreement could be reached with operators, hence why the 31/32 & 42/43 was chosen.

Everything now is completely dependent on the May Mayoral elections for the WMCA and what powers under The Bus Services Act the elected mayor chooses to use the current incumbent has no plans to increase his statutory powers I understand however under the Act the Bus Alliance Agreement can simply be imposed on the operators without choice  I understand that is not the current incumbents plans though.

[Bus Man K2]

There make be a slightly higher chance of something happening jointly with the 4's in the future, as Diamond & NXWM Pvr's are too far apart. But something like the 50's or 16's in Birmingham isn't going to happen where there's a big difference in Pvr & frequencies, why should NXWM give up lucrative revenue & profit to a competing operator?

I understand there's some way to go especially with the routes you mention. I'm only talking about the 4's not the 50's and 16's. But again who's to say that they can't make a route work that has a different PVR. I understand that it would be costly for one operator than the other, but if they want to mak it work then they will, regardless of PVR's

[winston]

Diamond are the winning operator round here. Offering higher frequency and most of the time stick to a timetable, and therefore are winning the competition between Hayley green and blackheath. After blackheath pick up loadings decrease a lot to nx, due to there much higher frequency and people having nx travelcards. Hardly anyone round Hayley green has a only nx traveldcard, and in fact instead many purchase the diamond monthly tickets where they can get to Halesowen, Oldbury, blackheath, West Brom and merry hill. These places are typically where is folks go to shop

From loadings where they're passing me on Dunstall Road, I'd tend to agree with that statement based on my obs from today. Can't comment on the overall picture though & as I said I'm on the part of the route where the passangers shift from getting off/to heading towards Halesowen, so not a true picture.

[richardjones210368]

That's not the version I've heard from an operators perspective, I think it may depend on who you hear it from.

Under the Bus Services Act the operators would powerless to stop the plans of the elected mayor of the WMCA they would only have to impose an AQPS.

The way in which an Advanced Quality Partnership proposal should be developed
and implemented is summarised in the flow chart below:
1-
WMCA
gives public notice
of its intention to
prepare an AQPS
2-
WMCA must then
prepare and publish its draft
proposals
3-
WMCA consults.
4-
Mandatory consultees
include operators
affected.
5-
The Act sets
out further detail on the
other parties to be
consulted
6-
WMCA amends the AQPS
as it sees fit in response to
consultation responses
7-
WMCA
introduces the
AQPS

[winston]

Everything now is completely dependent on the May Mayoral elections for the WMCA and what powers under The Bus Services Act the elected mayor chooses to use the current incumbent has no plans to increase his statutory powers I understand however under the Act the Bus Alliance Agreement can simply be imposed on the operators without choice I understand that is not the current incumbents plans though.

I don't see how it can be imposed on an operator without choice, I don't know all the clauses in the Bus Alliance Agreements that they're signed up for, however, equally I sure they'll be get out clauses for the operators as well. I don't see how TfWM can't just simply take control of commercially operated routes & kick NXWM or Diamond off them if they won't operate them jointly. TfWM could make things more difficult to encourage them or even incentivise them to work togther....

The only way I can see TfWM ever taking control of the entire WM bus network would be to re-regulate the market and acquire all the commercial routes, depots & posisbly fleets as a compuslory purchase. Otherwise, it's not going to get off the starting blocks. Bus operators are not just going to sit back & effectively give away their businesses when they shareholders to answer to.

Additionally, not one Transport Authority has actually got far enough to impose it, NEXUS in Tyne & Wear have got the closest & we all know how that ended....

[winston]

Under the Bus Services Act the operators would powerless to stop the plans of the elected mayor of the WMCA they would only have to impose an AQPS.

If that's the case then, why didn't TfWM enforce it on the 4's? Instead oopting to go to Plan B (31/32 & 42/43) becuase operators on the 4's weren't so keen.