Blackheath Bus Services

[richardjones210368]

What relevance do your comments have with what's been discussed ?

I think Westy has missed the point with his comments I think its very clear Winston was very proud to grow up in Halesowen and loved his Mk1 Leyland Nationals painted overall White whilst I grew up in Blackheath and loved my Mk1 Leyland Nationals painted Red & Cream. I think Winston and myself have argued the case for each others company very very well & I respect Winstons knowledge of the company he enjoyed using its for others on the forum to decide whose comments they agree with and not. The conclusion I have drawn is you have two posters who used buses when they were young and still use them regularly today and  enjoy them with a passion and to be frank the bus industry needs people who stand up for it. As for generations I am sure Winston is hapy to confirm he does not love White Socks & attends A/ha concerts! White Mk1 Leyland Nationals & Dennis Darts yes I am sure.

[winston]

I think Westy has missed the point with his comments I think its very clear Winston was very proud to grow in Halesowen and loved his Mk1 Leyland Nationals painted overall White whilst I grew up in Blackheath and loved my Mk1 Leyland Nationals painted Red & Cream. I think Winston and myself have argued the case for each others company very very well & I respect Winstons knowledge of the company he enjoyed using its for others on the forum to decide whose comments they agree with and not. The conclusion I have drawn is you have two posters who used buses when they were young and still use them regularly today and are enjoy them with a passion and to be frank the bus industry needs people who stand up for it. As for generations I am sure Winston is hapy to confirm he does not wear White Socks & attends A/ha concerts! White Mk1 Leyland Nationals yes I am sure.

Westy hasn't missed the point - he just needs to put his wooden spoon away & stop stirring!

I agree the Ludlows / BCC debate has been exhausted. Fyi - I don't now use buses that often now, only when time allows / if I fancy a few trips out. I drive most places if I need to go anywhere & I don't generally commute as work freelance from home.

I fully agree with you personally I cannot see any point in.corporate livery's of any kind my fave was the post dereg Midland Red West livery swept away by  Barbie unfortunately the final decisions on these matters are made well above my pay grade by people who would never be seen dead on a bus!  I also agree TfL is a money pit and their ideas in London are deeply flawed my opinion is franchising and the London system is stupid and lines the operators coffers mind you the MD of Tower Transit still refuses to speak to me after we had a very heated debate at last years Tory Party Conference I did feel sorry for the chair Prof David Begg!!!

Just going back to one of your earlier comments, I was a little a surprised at the perception towards senior TfWM executives & the thought of using a bus - in my opinion, these are the very people that are responsible for designing our future transport infrastructure / changing current provisions, surely they are the ones that need to get their a*ses out of their offices and experience the existing transport provisions / see the current issues first hand. TfWM are the body that should be leading by example to promote the systems they are creating, all employee's should be actively encouraged to commute using public transport.

[richardjones210368]

TfWM and WMCA do a very good job at what they do and the level of professionalism they do behind the scences is quite a surprise from the meetings I attend. I have had a driving licence since I was 18 and ended up with a PCV I chose to use the bus every day for work, visit clients etc most of my mates have always known me to be the same and say I use Buses as taxis around the West Midlands. The operational structure and ethos has changed totally since Centro morphed into TfWM & WMCA it really is know led top down by the mayor as long as you are doing a good job and TfWM is in my opinion I do not think it really matters what your own mode of transport is perhaps due to my knowlege and usage of buses that why I was aaked to contribute and I find both the management of NXWM & Rotala equally professional and engaging at the meetings I attend. I am very lucky being self employed it doesn't matter if I am stuck on the Hagley Rd on the X8 for an hour and half others are not so lucky mind you I am surprised how evasive you are about White Socks and A/ha to honest.

[richardjones210368]

I'm no stirrer, thank you very much.

It just seemed it was getting a little tetchy!

I disagree I think Winston has his views on Ludlows in Halesowen and I have mine on The Birmingham Coach Company in Blackheath and you have to remember there was a great rivalry between the two companies akin to Rangers & Celtic in football except this was white or red & cream you were firmly on one side or the other. I think we argued our respective cases with quite eloquence it is for others now on the site to decide whose opinion is most relevant to them.

[Westy]

To be honest,  the only time I saw a Ludlow vehicle in Walsall, was after Diamond took them over & stuck a vehicle on the then new 301.

In fact, according to the old Centro website of the time, the Diamond 301 was originally registered as a Ludlow service ISTR.

For the first couple of weeks, it was a free service as A2Z went bump overnight!

[the trainbasher]

To be honest,  the only time I saw a Ludlow vehicle in Walsall, was after Diamond took them over & stuck a vehicle on the then new 301.

In fact, according to the old Centro website of the time, the Diamond 301 was originally registered as a Ludlow service ISTR.

For the first couple of weeks, it was a free service as A2Z went bump overnight!

The 9 was also registered initially as a Ludlows service

[richardjones210368]

To be honest,  the only time I saw a Ludlow vehicle in Walsall, was after Diamond took them over & stuck a vehicle on the then new 301.

In fact, according to the old Centro website of the time, the Diamond 301 was originally registered as a Ludlow service ISTR.

For the first couple of weeks, it was a free service as A2Z went bump overnight!

Yes mate you are quite correct after Rotala bought Ludlows the company as Winston confirmed remained active and many service registerations  were on Ludlows discs the most famous Diamond Bus 9 was which actually registered to Ludlows of Halesowen. The rivarly between Ludlows & BCC was as Winston will confirm is legendry it was normal to see drivers fighting amongst themselves and Leyland Nationals being rammed into each other we will never see anything like it again where we live. Now Winston & I have made our comments very plain and agreed we both love our respective companies I am sure everyone on this forum wonders why someone who is so pro bus lives just out Halesowen can hate Ludlows so much. The answer is simple the reason why BCC declared war on Ludlows is in the early days of the BCC 217 upon retendering Ludlows registered a 217 to run 2 mins in front of the BCC 217.  BCC registered it commercially in Blackheath and threw everything at them and Ludlows withdrew in a matter of weeks and registered the 417 from that moment onwards I knew Ludlows were wolfs in sheep clothing and as you have seen all these years later I still hate them so much and hold those views to this day.

[winston]

Yes mate you are quite correct after Rotala bought Ludlows the company as Winston confirmed remained active and many service registerations  were on Ludlows discs the most famous Diamond Bus 9 was which actually registered to Ludlows of Halesowen. The rivarly between Ludlows & BCC was as Winston will confirm is legendry it was normal to see drivers fighting amongst themselves and Leyland Nationals being rammed into each other we will never see anything like it again where we live. Now Winston & I have made our comments very plain and agreed we both love our respective companies I am sure everyone on this forum wonders why someone who is pro bus can hate Ludlows so much. The answer is simple the reason why BCC declared war on Ludlows is in the early days of the BCC 217 upon retendering Ludlows registered a 217 to run 2 mins in front of the BCC 217.  BCC registered it commercially in Blackheath and threw everything at them and Ludlows withdrew in a matter of weeks and registered the 417 from that moment onwards I knew Ludlows were wolfs in sheep clothing and as you have seen all these years later I still hold those views.

The above practises of registering a few mins infront in the incumbent was rife at that time. They all did it including BCC, they were either registered as such or would deliberatly hang back to be just a few mins ahead on various services in competition against WMT i.e. 6, 9, 16, 51, 74, 87, 120, 247/248 etc, all of which are now gone bar the 16.

Diamond do it now against Claribel's tendered 75, where prior to the change of tender, Claribel's did it to Diamond. That's all political.

[richardjones210368]

We must move on Winston but you can see why I hate Ludlows so much they made the first move against BCC in Blackheath every one forgets that and from that day onwards I was a red and cream man as you were White. The 6 was an odd one for BCC with a strange irregular timetable mind you Diamond did have a good try at the Torchwood 37. I think the 9, 51, 74, 87, 120 & 247/8 were fair game as they were WMT and competition is good and the by word at the time  against the incumbent those all failed because of the dominance of the WMT Travelcard even BCC's riddicuously low fares were not enough perhaps it would be different know with Swift & I really don't want this to keep going on and on between us I get sick to the back teeth of everyone saying how wonderful and brilliant Ludlows were they were an utter rubbish third rate cowboy of a bus company in my opinion, that is if you saw their behaviour on the 217 against BCC  you would know why I hate even today Ludlows so much with so much venom  but lets move on mate I am sure with my insiders knowledge of TfWM I can bring another value to your excellent forum I must be doing something right I have been approached today by Avanti West Coast to join their new customer panel oh & you are still being very cagey about white socks and A/ha....

[Westy]

I've found it better since Swift came along, so I can catch any bus!

[richardjones210368]

Totally agree the Mayor is very proud of Swift  and its successful uptake the long term goal is for its use on West Midlands Railways as well i understand.

[richardjones210368]

Right then Winston moving on remember the Little Red Bus brilliantly whacky operations did you ever use their Service 99 from Blackheath to Birmingham and could this route work today with another operator as NXWM have slashed the Blackheath to Birmingham frequencies recently and are now taking the Blackheath patronage for granted when people notice me in the Market Place I really get in the ear how awful the X8 is and yes it is and the cuts to the 127/13A anyone have ideas how Blackheath could get back its service to Brum it actually deserves?

[winston]

Yes, remember the Little Red Bus co with Dodge S56 minibuses. Didn't use the 99, they did the Halesowen - Hasbury circular evening & Sunday tendered route 609.

[midlandred2003]

I have lived in blackheath for the past 26 years and worked for a short time for BCC, I regularly worked on the 217 service from the very beginning and I have to acknowledge ludlows drivers were a right miserable lot.

[richardjones210368]

Wow thats amazing I have loved living in Blackheath all my 51 years and have great respect for the drivers in the early days of the BCC & very fond memories of 56, HHA 115L the Orange ex Midland Red Mk1 National bought from Shearings - Respect to you mate.