Blackheath Bus Services

[Busboy105]

It's because everyone wants to model their regional transports systems on what they consider is the perfect model i.e. 'London' wholly managed by TfL. However, it's rarely publicised how much tax payers money TfL gobbles up to subsidise it all.

West Midlands Trains are certainly a shining local example delivering a top class service....

Isn't TFL in a huge pool of debt right now?

[Trident 4194]

That is very intersting to know Tony would you mind if I raised your points at our next Bus Alliance meeting on the 28th Jan as TfWM & the operators all seem to be in the belief that the majority of buses other than your Platnum and cross boundry buses will be in West Midlands Bus colours by the Commonwealth Games.

I've also heard this about West Midlands being one colour/operator from a employee in Halesowen bus station

[winston]

Isn't TFL in a huge pool of debt right now?

Yes Tfl is loss making overall, largely due to the bus subsidies & growing Tube revenue & profits. Even though the entire London network is under the control of just Tfl, bud passenger numbers have been falling for the past 4 years and it's not even profitable & is gobbling up tax payers funds.

And this is the model some Cities Mayor's want to adopt.... :o

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tfl-set-for-742m-loss-thanks-to-bus-subsidies-a4096581.html

[BN]

It's called 'Hasbury' not Dunstall estate, and funny you should mention that, Fyi - I grew up on that estate, lived there years and used Ludlows & other operators frequently and didn't experience all the problems you did, you must just be unlucky. Ludlow's were certainly not an operator I'd refer to a being pathetic, neither have I ever heard anyone share your feelings.

I'm sure Derek and Andy would have something to say about this.
In my eyes growing up within the industry and close to the business it was a fantastic company with a good turned out fleet. Also I knew it as the Squirrels never Dunstall estate.

[sonic84]

I'm sure Derek and Andy would have something to say about this.
In my eyes growing up within the industry and close to the business it was a fantastic company with a good turned out fleet. Also I knew it as the Squirrels never Dunstall estate.

I agree. Having lived in Hayley Green the Ludlows 006 and 417 were far more reliable that the majority of other routes which served Hayley Green. By far the least reliable was the First 192 service which rarely on time (probably as at one point it interworked with the 143 to Redditch!)

I also used the 002 004 and 007 as well. I can only think of one occasion waiting for a 007 on Unicorn Hill in Redditch at 5.30 wondering whether it would turn up - I used to travel between Halesowen and Redditch quite regularly before the Bromsgrove to Redditch section was cut. Otherwise they were generally on time with friendly drivers!

[winston]

I'm sure Derek and Andy would have something to say about this.
In my eyes growing up within the industry and close to the business it was a fantastic company with a good turned out fleet. Also I knew it as the Squirrels never Dunstall estate.

I totally agree, I was fairly close to Ludlows when they had a solid National fleet, as a family friend drove for them. I still see Derek from time to time. Also, for a pathetic excuse of a company, how come all their let down passengers stood by them when Birmingham Coach Company registered over every one of their routes trying to force them out of business.

Squirrels Estate is the next one up then comes out on Lutely Lane. There's only Dunstall Road, which I lived on for 25 years & my parents are still there.

[winston]

You are so funny have you ever waited 2 hours in Bromsgrove waiting for a 007 or 202 that never appeared or gone for a 006 on the Dunstall estate and it's not turned up or thier 192 tender that never got to Kiddeminster or the missing 230 when your off to the baths at Haden Hill or the 002 that never came at Bartley Green Memorial do NOT lecture me on the pathetic excuse of a bus company that was LUDLOWS I used thier services most days DID YOU?

@sonic84 - Do you ever remember Ludlows operating the 192 tender to Kidderminster ?? ☝️☝️ As I don't.....

[richardjones210368]

Isn't TFL in a huge pool of debt right now?

I should have a look at some of TfL budgets and his pressing need to cut bus routes due to the mounting losses on the London Bus system

[richardjones210368]

Yes Tfl is loss making overall, largely due to the bus subsidies & growing Tube revenue & profits. Even though the entire London network is under the control of just Tfl, bud passenger numbers have been falling for the past 4 years and it's not even profitable & is gobbling up tax payers funds.

And this is the model some Cities Mayor's want to adopt.... :o

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tfl-set-for-742m-loss-thanks-to-bus-subsidies-a4096581.html

Winston, thank you I have been at the gym but your spot on with this and the level of debt facing TfL

[richardjones210368]

I'm sure Derek and Andy would have something to say about this.
In my eyes growing up within the industry and close to the business it was a fantastic company with a good turned out fleet. Also I knew it as the Squirrels never Dunstall estate.

Ludlows was a terrible company that relied on the patronage of concessionaires and provided a terrible service for those us that had to depend on them with third rate drivers who could not understand how Centro tickets worked, white Leyland Nationals that reeked of oil, white touring coaches regularly put on the 230  and fares that would make impress Stagecoach South West in Devon. The best day for Blackheath was when Rotala bought the company and we were rid of them for good very soon we had 2 unreliable 417s an hour from this awful firm I was so sad when the Birmingham Coach Company failed to run them off the right as I thought we we would be rid of them however Diamond Bus got there in the end and we have 4 4Hs an hour an evening service and Sunday service nothing we never had from Ludlows the best day of my life was when Diamond Bus liberated Gorsty Hill from the rubbish that was Ludlows. it must be a generational thing when I was at Halesowen College my mates never called it The Squirrels but the Dunstall estate.

[richardjones210368]

@sonic84 - Do you ever remember Ludlows operating the 192 tender to Kidderminster ?? ☝️☝️ As I don't.....

They operated 3 journeys on tender to WCC after Midland Red West withdrew the 192 292 and 392 . I  used to have to travel to Aggborough then often and Ludlows rarely turned up to operate their tender routes they were the worst bus company in England

[winston]

Ludlows was a terrible company that relied on the patronage of concessionaires and provided a terrible service for those us that had to depend on them with third rate drivers who could not understand how Centro tickets worked, white Leyland Nationals that reeked of oil, white touring coaches regularly put on the 230  and fares that would make impress Stagecoach South West in Devon. The best day for Blackheath was when Rotala bought the company and we were rid of them for good very soon we had 2 unreliable 417s an hour from this awful firm I was so sad when the Birmingham Coach Company failed to run them off the right as I thought we we would be rid of them however Diamond Bus got there in the end and we have 4 4Hs an hour an evening service and Sunday service nothing we never had from Ludlows the best day of my life was when Diamond Bus liberated Gorsty Hill from the rubbish that was Ludlows. it must be a generational thing when I was at Halesowen College my mates never called it The Squirrels but the Dunstall estate.

The Birmingham Coach Companies fleet of Nationals were always rough, and not in the best of condition & it was their drivers who I would have considered third rate. Then there was the lunchtime window where there was a gap in service on the 9 & they could all be found parked on Earl's Island for lunch.

It may be what you & your mates called it, but there's no such place as Dunstall Est. As for a generation thing, we're from around the same generation. I left Windsor High in 93 & did two years at Haleswoen College & used buses frequently then.

[winston]

They operated 3 journeys on tender to WCC after Midland Red West withdrew the 192 292 and 392 . I  used to have to travel to Aggborough then often and Ludlows rarely turned up to operate their tender routes they were the worst bus company in England

Don't remember those, probably as only odd journeys. Who ran the daytime 192 at that time?

[Ian Hardy]

Yes Tfl is loss making overall, largely due to the bus subsidies & growing Tube revenue & profits. Even though the entire London network is under the control of just Tfl, bud passenger numbers have been falling for the past 4 years and it's not even profitable & is gobbling up tax payers funds.

And this is the model some Cities Mayor's want to adopt.... :o

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tfl-set-for-742m-loss-thanks-to-bus-subsidies-a4096581.html

Some of the reasons why bus passenger numbers have been falling in London are:

1. Half the road space in Central London streets are now cycle super highways so slowing traffic down.
2. Most major junctions have been altered with separate phases for the cyclists extending the time it takes to get through the junction.
3. One way systems have been removed e.g. Tottenham Court Road two years ago was a 3 lane road northbound, now it is has 1 lane each way and when you get a lorry parked in a layby delivering two buses cannot pass each other creating delays.
4. The number of private hire vehicles (Uber etc) have increased dramatically, also they don't pay the congestion charge and most of them do not know how to drive properly.
5. The introduction of free buses (Borismasters) where a high proportion of the passengers don't touch the oyster or contactless will show as a reduction in passenger numbers.

The TfL model is not the model to follow, it is very costly to Londoners from their council tax even though there has been the fares freeze which has done no good for TfL's financies.

At present the initials TfL could stand for: Totally xxxx London:-)

[richardjones210368]

Mate I do not think we are of the same generation I started at Halesowen College in 1984 and my mates I am still in touch with were known as the Dunstall lads from the municipal housing and the posh lot were from the Squirrels & Abbeyfields I was just thought of as pond life because I went to Britannia High in Blackheath but most of us are still in touch I cannot believe all this praise for Ludlows. I did my accountancy training at Midland Red West & Badgerline Holdings under the great late Ken Mills a visionary of his time and the company before GRT prided itself of the the up most professional service we provided to Birmingham, The Black Country, Herefordshire and Worcestershire. I was as an trainee accountant but was even passed out on a yellow Mk1 yellow Leyland National 101 HHA 101L and still hold my PCV. We used to just laugh and laugh at the amateur nature and the ridiculous messes Ludlows used to get themselves into it was really amateur night in an On The Buses tribute act that's  how we perceived Ludlows and I had to live on Gorsty Hill and suffer it daily knowing what a quality service we operated at MRW and I never liked how they get rid of our 233. I have great admiration for Geoff Howle and The Birmingham Coach Company who in a time of recession offered low fares, bus services where people wanted to go to and ran a fleet of Leyland Nationals smartly turned out in Red & Cream. I was so sad when he failed to run Ludlows off the road but Diamond Bus prevailed in the end just remind me who is running up Gorsty Hill now is it Ludlows or The Birmingham Coach Company aka Diamond Bus?