Blackheath Bus Services

[richardjones210368]

Don't remember those, probably as only odd journeys. Who ran the daytime 192 at that time?

It was Midland Red West X93 X92 AND X94 THE TENDER REPLACED WITHDRAWN JOURNEYS ON 192, 292 AND 392.

[Sh4318]

Obviously I didn't mean "always" in a literal sense.

The 4H is an extension of the normal 4 between Blackheath and Hayley Green, a service between Walsall and Hayley Green never previously existed
R


You are wrong the 4H is not an extension of the 4 but a merger of the Diamond Bus 404E and 417 please feel free to correct me if you feel I am wrong I do agree however it created a thru service from Walsall to Hayley Green.

Well, no, I'm not. The 4 (then 404) never went to Halesowen until the 4H was introduced

[richardjones210368]

Well, no, I'm not. The 4 (then 404) never went to Halesowen until the 4H was introduced

I did NOT POST  that the 4 and the 4H were introduced together I have NEVER said the 404 went to Halesowen if you read my post  I said the 4H grew from the  Diamond Bus 404E West Brom to Walsall which  was merged with the Diamond Bus 417 West Brom to Hayley Green you are completely wrong the 4 was never extended to Hayley Green for Diamond Bus it was the 404E joined with 417 why cant you understand this before attacking my posts I suggest you in future get your facts right before commenting on me & Blackheath buses .

[richardjones210368]

The Birmingham Coach Companies fleet of Nationals were always rough, and not in the best of condition & it was their drivers who I would have considered third rate. Then there was the lunchtime window where there was a gap in service on the 9 & they could all be found parked on Earl's Island for lunch.

It may be what you & your mates called it, but there's no such place as Dunstall Est. As for a generation thing, we're from around the same generation. I left Windsor High in 93 & did two years at Haleswoen College & used buses frequently then.

I have nothing but praise for Geoff Howle & The Birmingham Company Company a bus company that offered low fares at time of high unemployment in Blackheath offering buses where folks wanted to go and nothing but contempt for Ludlows a company with high fares, white Leyland Nationals that stank of oil, drivers who looked down and sneered at Blackheath.folk and ran a third rate service thru Blackheath that benefited Ludlows but took Blackheath folk for a ride I am not a regious man but I prayed for joy when Rotala got Ludlows off the road for good a great day for Blackheath.

[richardjones210368]

Why do I get the feeling that this argument is going to go into next year?

I think.we have a North South divide here the posh boys of leafy middle class Halesowen loved Ludlows because they never had to use them us working class lads in Blackheath saw straight thru them ignored them and bought our West Midlands Travelcards or 7 day Bham Coach Company tickets I really can see for the first time what Halesowen folk perceive of Ludlows and what Blackheath folk did it really is an amazing clash of social cohesion isn't it ?

[winston]

Mate I do not think we are of the same generation I started at Halesowen College in 1984 and my mates I am still in touch with were known as the Dunstall lads from the municipal housing and the posh lot were from the Squirrels & Abbeyfields I was just thought of as pond life because I went to Britannia High in Blackheath but most of us are still in touch I cannot believe all this praise for Ludlows. I did my accountancy training at Midland Red West & Badgerline Holdings under the great late Ken Mills a visionary of his time and the company before GRT prided itself of the the up most professional service we provided to Birmingham, The Black Country, Herefordshire and Worcestershire. I was as an trainee accountant but was even passed out on a yellow Mk1 yellow Leyland National 101 HHA 101L and still hold my PCV. We used to just laugh and laugh at the amateur nature and the ridiculous messes Ludlows used to get themselves into it was really amateur night in an On The Buses tribute act that's  how we perceived Ludlows and I had to live on Gorsty Hill and suffer it daily knowing what a quality service we operated at MRW and I never liked how they get rid of our 233. I have great admiration for Geoff Howle and The Birmingham Coach Company who in a time of recession offered low fares, bus services where people wanted to go to and ran a fleet of Leyland Nationals smartly turned out in Red & Cream. I was so sad when he failed to run Ludlows off the road but Diamond Bus prevailed in the end just remind me who is running up Gorsty Hill now is it Ludlows or The Birmingham Coach Company aka Diamond Bus?

You posted you started work in 1996 last night when you were having your tant, logic would suggest you were at college before that. There's no municipal housing on Dunstall Road or most surrounding roads.

We'll have to agree to disagree on our perceptions of Ludlows, I've not come across such negatively towards Ludlows before, neither have others by the looks of it.

BCC didn't have all it's Nationals smartly turned out, there were numerous examples in ex Brighton & Hove livery racing up/down Dunstall Road on the 247/248. Plus the BCC drivers were on bonuses based on takings & would do anything just to get infront of WMT inc illegal & dangerous manoeuvre's etc. A number of them were rust buckets covered in dents & scrapes.

[richardjones210368]

You posted you started work in 1996 last night when you were having your tant, logic would suggest you were at college before that. There's no municipal housing on Dunstall Road or most surrounding roads.

We'll have to agree to disagree on our perceptions of Ludlows, I've not come across such negatively towards Ludlows before, neither have others by the looks of it.

BCC didn't have all it's Nationals smartly turned out, there were numerous examples in ex Brighton & Hove livery racing up/down Dunstall Road on the 247/248. Plus the BCC drivers were on bonuses based on takings & would do anything just to get infront of WMT inc illegal & dangerous manoeuvre's etc. A number of them were rust buckets covered in dents & scrapes.

You are so wrong again when the Squirrels was built as you call it half was sold as private housing half was in the control of Dudley Council and let out to tenants as municipal housing and many of mates called it the Dunstall estate who lived in the rented houses the squirrels was for the owner occupiers most were sold naturally to the owners under right to buy I am not a Halesowen man I am from.Blackheath I doubt you really are if you didn't know that. I started work in practice as an accountant in 1996 but oddly had to qualify first and so under my BA/MBA sandwich degree I was placed for my training contract with Midland Red West/Bagerline Holdings for nearly 18 months during my degree and loved my internship I hate Ludlows with all my heart as most Blackheath folk do. I loved those dual door Mk1s that kept the BH&D colours on the 247 The Birmingham Coach Company did and still does today as Diamond Bus offers Blackheath a quality low cost service something that Ludlows never did a third rate company loved in Halesowen and hated in.Blackheath and good riddance to them you cannot argue Diamond Bus has served Blackheath since 1987 and is still here today while the Ludlows cut and run and left Halesowen high and dry ironic isn't it as for the BCC drivers did you not understand The Transport Act 1986 and the phrase competition if not can I refer you to Maslows Hierarchy of Needs or Micheal Porters Competitive Strategy whicj outlines the BCC approach taken I did my dissertation on The Birmingham Coach Company and the impact it had on the deregulated bus  market of the West Midlands and got a 1st ironic that when you look at what they did to MRW oh and WMT gave as good it got remember the 317 against the BCC 217?

[winston]

You are so wrong again when the Squirells was built as you call it half was sold as private housing half was in the control of Dudley Council and let out to tennants as muncipal housing and many of mates called it the Dunstall estate who lived in the rented houses the squirells was for the owner occupiers most were sold naturally to the owners under right to buy I am not a Halesowen man I am from.Blackheath I doubt you really are if you didnt know that. I started work in practice as an accountant in 1996 but oddly had to qualify first and so under my BA/MBA sandwich degree I was placed for my training contract with Midland Red West/Bagerline Holdings for nearly 18 months during my degree and loved my internship I hate Ludlows with all my heart as most Blackheath folk do. I loved those dual door Mk1s that kept the BH&D colours on the 247 The Birmingham Coach Company did and still does today as Diamond Bus offers Blackheath a quality low cost service something that Ludlows never did a third rate company loved in Halesowen and hated in.Blackheath and good riddance to them you cannot argue Diamond Bus has served Blackheath since 1987 and is still here todsy while the Ludlows cut and run and left Halesowen high and dry ironic isnt it as for the BCC drivers did you not understsnd The Transport Act 1986 and the phrase competition and WMT gave as good it got remember the 317 against the BCC 217?

Really I'm wrong....🤦‍♂️ For the FINAL time (take it from someone's who's lived there....) Dunstall Road is on HASBURY estate. The Squirrels is a completely seperate estate with municple housing some of which falls under HAYLEY GREEN.

Ludlows didn't cut & run they sold out for good offer, just like Birmingham Coach Company did to Go-Ahead & then Go-Ahead  sold the combined BCC / Pete's Travel ops to Rotala.

[richardjones210368]

Really I'm wrong....🤦‍♂️ For the FINAL time (take it from someone's who's lived there....) Dunstall Road is on HASBURY estate. The Squirrels is a completely seperate estate with municple housing some of which falls under HAYLEY GREEN.

Ludlows didn't cut & run they sold out for good offer, just like Birmingham Coach Company did to Go-Ahead & then Go-Ahead  sold the combined BCC / Pete's Travel ops to Rotala.

Ok I will agree with you on Dunstall Rd that we are both from the posh and poor sides of Halesowen I respect you for that and our perceptions are different but lets agree that different generations look at things different I respect you Winston.for moderating such a wonderfull site as this and lets be honest are Blackheath & Halesowen lads ever going to agree? Thank you for your correct Diamond Bus timeline.  However Ludlows did cut and run if check on Companies House register Diamond Bus still has the same Company Registeration number as the Bham Coach Company had on formation ownership changes happen in companies thats normal business but I dare you legally to prove Diamond Bus Ltd is not the same company in law that was The Bham Coach Company  Ltd and so would you not agree Diamond Bus  Ltd has served the people of Blackheath since 1987 and continues today whereas for all thier praise the Ludlows cut and run left Halesowen high and dry and sold out I cannot find on the Companies House database a company called Ludlows Coaches but oddly one called Diamond Bus Limited previously known as The Birmingham Coach Company Limited funny that isnt it which makes me proud of Diamond serving Blackheath for over 30 years they are still here the SAME company offering low fares as they have done for Blackheath for 33 years  while the Ludlows they sold out so couldnt care less about Halesowen and people praise them on here they obviously never used them or are aware Diamond Bus Ltd have served Blackheath for 33 years which is more than you can say for Ludlows....

[winston]

Ok I will agree with you on Dunstall Rd that we are both from the posh and poor sides of Halesowen I respect you for that and our perceptions are different but lets agree that different generations look at things different I respect you Winston.for moderating such a wonderfull site as this and lets be honest are Blackheath & Halesowen lads ever going to agree? Thank you for your correct Diamond Bus timeline.  However Ludlows did cut and run if check on Companies House register Diamond Bus still has the same Company Registeration number as the Bham Coach Company had on formation ownership changes happen in companies thats normal business but I dare you legally to prove Diamond Bus Ltd is not the same company in law that was The Bham Coach Company  Ltd and so would you not agree Diamond Bus  Ltd has served the people of Blackheath since 1987 and continues today whereas for all thier praise the Ludlows cut and run left Halesowen high and dry and sold out I cannot find on the Companies House database a company called Ludlows Coaches but oddly one called Diamond Bus Limited previously known as The Birmingham Coach Company Limited funny that isnt it which makes me proud of Diamond serving Blackheath for over 30 years they are still here the SAME company offering low fares as they have done for Blackheath for 33 years  while the Ludlows they sold out so couldnt care less about Halesowen and people praise them on here they obviously never used them.

Our generations really aren't that far apart, I remember when Ludlows first started the 006 after deregulation & BCC. I think you'll find after the BCC attack, Ludlows started investing quite heavily in low floor buses & quickly ditched the Nationals, whilst it took Geoffrey Howle until 2001 to first put his hand in his pocket and buy his first brand new buses in the form of 8 x DAF/Wright Cadets & then only bought another 6 after that in 2002. Pat & Derek Ludlow were both at retirement age when they sold out to Rotala, the same can't be said of Geoffrey Howle. 

Ludlows of Halesowen Limited was dissolved in 2014:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01352987

The current Rotala Diamond Bus Limited legal entity originates from the same limited company number that The Birmingham Coach Company started out with, but ownership has changed hands a number of times since then. Additionally, the current Diamond Bus Limited operation also includes elements of various acquisitions including Go West Midlands / First Kidderminster & Redditch / Ludlows / Hansons & Central Buses - don't think there's anything left of Central Connect / Zak's or BMT.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02531054

That said, if you want to split hairs, the actual route serving Gorsty Hill (4H) was formed from the merger of 417 (Ludlow's origin) & 404E's (Diamond Bus / Peoples Express / Pete's Travel origin), the original Birmingham Coach Company route West Bromwich to Merry Hill via Blackheath (217) was withdrawn sometime prior.

I think you'll find that all of us who disagree with your view Ludlows used their buses. I used to travel around on their buses frequently in the mid 90's with my sisters friends dad who drove for Ludlows and his brother also joined. And I know Derek Ludlow & he still drives for Diamond Bus Kidderminster, and Hanson's prior to that.

[richardjones210368]

Our generations really aren't that far apart, I remember when Ludlows first started the 006 after deregulation & BCC. I think you'll find after the BCC attack, Ludlows started investing quite heavily in low floor buses & quickly ditched the Nationals, whilst it took Geoffrey Howle until 2001 to first put his hand in his pocket and buy his first brand new buses in the form of 8 x DAF/Wright Cadets & then only bought another 6 after that in 2002. Pat & Derek Ludlow were both at retirement age when they sold out to Rotala, the same can't be said of Geoffrey Howle. 

Ludlows of Halesowen Limited was dissolved in 2014:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01352987

The current Rotala Diamond Bus Limited legal entity originates from the same limited company number that The Birmingham Coach Company started out with, but ownership has changed hands a number of times since then. Additionally, the current Diamond Bus Limited operation also includes elements of various acquisitions including Go West Midlands / First Kidderminster & Redditch / Ludlows / Hansons & Central Buses - don't think there's anything left of Central Connect / Zak's or BMT.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02531054

That said, if you want to split hairs, the actual route serving Gorsty Hill (4H) was formed from the merger of 417 (Ludlow's origin) & 404E's (Diamond Bus / Peoples Express / Pete's Travel origin), the original Birmingham Coach Company route West Bromwich to Merry Hill via Blackheath (217) was withdrawn sometime prior.

I think you'll find that all of us who disagree with your view Ludlows used their buses. I used to travel around on their buses frequently in the mid 90's with my sisters friends dad who drove for Ludlows and his brother also joined. And I know Derek Ludlow & he still drives for Diamond Bus Kidderminster, and Hanson's prior to that.

Well Geoffrey Howle bought the Cadets for Centro contracts you cannot buy brand new stock and still offer the good people of Blackheath low fares from a £1 return I am sure he was happy to let the good people of Halesowen pay higher fares to fund the purchase of the Ludlows Darts. I do not split hairs Winston that is childish I pride myself as a professional and yes I fully agree with all your comments i too cannot find an active company on the register called Ludlows you are spot on therefore you will agree that Diamond Bus Limited have served Blackheath for 33 years from the 217 to the 4H and continue to provide a bus service today whereas Ludlows are company that sold out and has not provided Halesowen with a bus service for anything like 33 years has it. Dereck & Pat took the money dangled in front of them by Rotala and ran. If the Birmingham Coach Company / Diamond Bus are so bad as you describe on the 247/8 and Ludlows so good funny that it is Diamond Bus still offering the good people of Blackheath a commercial service between Blackheath & West Bromwich after 33 years and your so called superior Ludlows are the Woolworths of Blackheath buses gone but not forgotten sadly I am pleased you finally.acknowledge the long lasting sucess that continues as Diamond Bus long after Ludlows sold up and left Halesowen high and dry glad your proud of a company like that I too are very proud of Diamond Bus which is also one of Sandwells biggest employers and that is something for everyone to be proud off.

[richardjones210368]

Oh well if you really want to split hairs lifes too short to be professional who needs it as an accountant the origin of the 417 was actually WMPTE in 1976 and just remind me between the end of the WMPTE 417 on 25th October 1986 and Ludlows reintroducing it in 1988 who was it who ran it so professionally as the 233 & became much missed when Ludlows elbowed them out of the way in such an unprofessionaly way which we all came to expect from such an unprofessional shambles of a bus company and ran 2 minuets ahead of the incumbent showing what hypocrities they were for all the moaning and outrage when BCC did the same I am glad you are so proud of such a firm that was such a disgrace to Blackheath and is missed by no one I know.  Oh and I think our generations are very very much apart sadly I cannot see anyone at school in 1993 wearing White Socks and going to the Royal Albert Hall to see A/ha live last month..... For what its worth Winston.I really think we have to agree to disagree on Ludlows & The Birmingham.Coach Company .that is all in the past what is more important than everything is we all work together to continue to build a better bus service for all today and the future that is why I am a TfWM Bus Champion to move forward with buses not live in the past dont you agree?

[Westy]

Why do I get the feeling there's going to be some moderator editing on the last few posts?

[Tony]

Why do I get the feeling there's going to be some moderator editing on the last few posts?

No, because they are valid opinions.

It's only when opinions are posted as facts they get deleted

[winston]

Why do I get the feeling there's going to be some moderator editing on the last few posts?

What relevance do your comments have with what's been discussed ?