Double doors on buses

[nx4737]

Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door

Talking of London features, why on earth do all London buses have roller blinds??

TFL specifies that London Buses have roller blinds, although the dayglo yellow blinds are now being replaced by black and white ones, as the former are said to be to expensive.

But why cz they just look rubbish in this day and age!

I disagree, have you tried to read an LED in bright sunlight, or for that matter, in any condition other than overcast?

[nitromatt1]

Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door

Talking of London features, why on earth do all London buses have roller blinds??

TFL specifies that London Buses have roller blinds, although the dayglo yellow blinds are now being replaced by black and white ones, as the former are said to be to expensive.

But why cz they just look rubbish in this day and age!

I disagree, have you tried to read an LED in bright sunlight, or for that matter, in any condition other than overcast?

Although it's perhaps not the most important thing, LEDs often disappear on photographs for some reason, whilst dot matrix/paper blinds always show

[PM]

Who Thinks we should have two doors on our buses, but NONE of the other london features, such as the ramp in the middle door

Talking of London features, why on earth do all London buses have roller blinds??

TFL specifies that London Buses have roller blinds, although the dayglo yellow blinds are now being replaced by black and white ones, as the former are said to be to expensive.

But why cz they just look rubbish in this day and age!

I disagree, have you tried to read an LED in bright sunlight, or for that matter, in any condition other than overcast?

Although it's perhaps not the most important thing, LEDs often disappear on photographs for some reason, whilst dot matrix/paper blinds always show

Yeah I've noticed this as well dont know why it is...

[Sh4318]

LEDs blink every 30 seconds (or similar), but this blink is blind to the human eye, although it can be seen on camera

[nitromatt1]

LEDs blink every 30 seconds (or similar), but this blink is blind to the human eye, although it can be seen on camera

The LEDs seem to disappear in every other photo I take though so I'd guess it blinks more than every 30 seconds

[The Real 4778]

LEDs blink every 30 seconds (or similar), but this blink is blind to the human eye, although it can be seen on camera

Thirty times per second I think it is.

[nitromatt1]

So what percentage of the time is the LED on, and what percentage of time is it off?

[The Real 4778]

I'm guessing it's probably half of the time, but the human eye can't detect it.

Possibly after the effects of some pretty nasty substances you would, or under hypnosis.

[nitromatt1]

One thing I have noticed is that it seems to be more likely to disappear, the greater the angle the bus is at to me

[Tony]

A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...

Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"

That was my point above it doesn't help, last people off are usually from Upstairs, no one can get past or up the stairs until they are off

Was going to suggest a response of "that isn't a problem in London" but then forgot the obvious, London buses aren't as crowded as here, because there's less people on them, because there's a reasonable amount of buses on the road.... silly me, how could I forget. Sorry guys, we're stuck with buses that take ana age to unload and load because the buses aren't frequent enough

I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.

London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses

[PM]

A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...

Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"

That was my point above it doesn't help, last people off are usually from Upstairs, no one can get past or up the stairs until they are off

Was going to suggest a response of "that isn't a problem in London" but then forgot the obvious, London buses aren't as crowded as here, because there's less people on them, because there's a reasonable amount of buses on the road.... silly me, how could I forget. Sorry guys, we're stuck with buses that take ana age to unload and load because the buses aren't frequent enough

I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.

London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses

IS this why the stairs were further back on original london spec low floor deckers?

[Tony]

A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...

Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"

That was my point above it doesn't help, last people off are usually from Upstairs, no one can get past or up the stairs until they are off

Was going to suggest a response of "that isn't a problem in London" but then forgot the obvious, London buses aren't as crowded as here, because there's less people on them, because there's a reasonable amount of buses on the road.... silly me, how could I forget. Sorry guys, we're stuck with buses that take ana age to unload and load because the buses aren't frequent enough

I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.

London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses

IS this why the stairs were further back on original london spec low floor deckers?

Yes, to make the dual doors worthwhile you have to get as many people past the driver as possible while the bus is still unloading. The trouble with the early layout was on standard ALX bodies this reduced lower deck seating to as low as 19 on some buses, a major disadvantage on routes with lots of elderly or infirm

[PM]

A full bus comes, takes forever to unload people with lots of shopping / pushchairs etc, then takes forever to load with pretty much the same amount of people, some of them using their smartcards that take longer to register sometimes than it takes to put money in the machine, then waddle slowly down the bus picking up a metro on the way. Total up to a few minutes at the bus stop, multiply this by usually a good 5 times on the busier routes...

Or.... put a door in the middle so people can get off while others get on at the front.....
Yes, ok, people could get on without paying.... I seem to remember a conversation on here a while ago about "how many people get on the 67 bendi's without paying" and IIRC the answer was actually "not that many"

That was my point above it doesn't help, last people off are usually from Upstairs, no one can get past or up the stairs until they are off

Was going to suggest a response of "that isn't a problem in London" but then forgot the obvious, London buses aren't as crowded as here, because there's less people on them, because there's a reasonable amount of buses on the road.... silly me, how could I forget. Sorry guys, we're stuck with buses that take ana age to unload and load because the buses aren't frequent enough

I can't see what point you are trying to make, but you certainly didn't understand my point. My point was double doors do not speed up unloading and loading that much because once people getting on get to the bottom of the stairs it grounds to a halt anyway.

London tried to cure this by moving the middle doors further back. In current vehicles they are one bay further back than on Fleetlines, Metrobuses and Titans. This has now been negated by moving the stairs forward on the latest buses

IS this why the stairs were further back on original london spec low floor deckers?

Yes, to make the dual doors worthwhile you have to get as many people past the driver as possible while the bus is still unloading. The trouble with the early layout was on standard ALX bodies this reduced lower deck seating to as low as 19 on some buses, a major disadvantage on routes with lots of elderly or infirm

Exactly, defeats the whole point of accessibility if no seats and everyone has to go upstairs. I got one of the presidents at worcester this morning on the 144 and was amazed by the capacity or lack of it downstairs 22 seats in total-3 of which were where doors were originally, so 19 in total. Many at the back, raised so awful for the elderly-thats where the enviro400 comes into its own-seats at the front, yes raised but not much, for those who cannot walk all down the bus. Even so the B+H spec of buggies one side/seats the other was good but no wonder NX dont buy geminis-they are not as passenger friendly. To be honest, short wheelbase deckers are a waste of everyones time full stop-the capacity on the president this morning was almost funny-enviro 300s/b7rles are far more efficient crowd movers. If you're going to have a decker that is passenger friendly it must have 1 set of doors, not be short length and must have seats near the front otherwise a single decker is better

[Kevin]

Lets be honest, it's going to be just like the "Birmingham needs / doesn't need nightbuses". People have different opinions with different evidence to base their opinions on, other people try to say "no it's a stupid idea shut up". I'll just accept in some peoples' eyes I'm wrong, it's probably easier

[PM]

Lets be honest, it's going to be just like the "Birmingham needs / doesn't need nightbuses". People have different opinions with different evidence to base their opinions on, other people try to say "no it's a stupid idea shut up". I'll just accept in some peoples' eyes I'm wrong, it's probably easier

No its interesting having the discussion-thats what the forum is for-discussing ideas