WM Bus Photos Forum

There is now a survey up on the NX West Midlands website for the Dudley area:

http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/dudley-network-review-consultation

How do I comment on the 11/ 13?

Doesn't seem to be a specific option!

I've put my tuppence haypennyworth in and given my views, such as suggesting a split of the 81/X96/276 to improve reliability and sending 255 full trips direct via Bromley (Avoiding Tiled House Lane).

Quote from: Westy on September 29, 2017, 08:00:50 PM
How do I comment on the 11/ 13?

Doesn't seem to be a specific option!

The North of Dudley survey.

Comment in the first section regarding the network of services serving North Dudley inc Tipton

Why don't NX do these surveys properly, ie: firstly ask people about there experiences about transport in the affected area, and what they would like to see. Then when the survey is closed, go away and come back with some proposals for comment upon.

This way they are saying we want your input but actually we want to do this and this.

I think my way would get more replies as the way NE do it, people will think , well they already decided what they want to do, what is the point in replying?

Quote from: the trainbasher on September 29, 2017, 08:05:05 PM
I've put my tuppence haypennyworth in and given my views, such as suggesting a split of the 81/X96/276 to improve reliability and sending 255 full trips direct via Bromley (Avoiding Tiled House Lane).

Are you serious?! Split the 81? People like myself who finish work at Merry Hill at 10pm would then have no direct route back home. Roseville would also lose its direct link with merry hill which it’s had since 2007(iirc) through the 283 and 583.

The X96 nor 276  hardly suffers with reliability, unless there is a reason, such as roadworks, diversions etc.

You live on the 226 route, so I don’t get how those routes affect you anyway. Thanks for your pointless and uneducated opinions!

This is why these consultations shouldn’t happen IMO.

Quote from: Dom on September 29, 2017, 09:01:11 PM
Are you serious?! Split the 81? People like myself who finish work at Merry Hill at 10pm would then have no direct route back home. Roseville would also lose its direct link with merry hill which it's had since 2007(iirc) through the 283 and 583.

The X96 nor 276  hardly suffers with reliability, unless there is a reason, such as roadworks, diversions etc.

This is why these consultations shouldn't happen IMO.

Oh yes they do, especially towards Christmas, X96/276 being turned at Stourbridge due to late running, leaving significant gaps in service between Stourbridge and Norton/Wollaston.

IMO they should bring back the old 289/90 service so that the 276/X96 can terminate at Stourbridge.

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on September 29, 2017, 09:07:55 PM
Oh yes they do, especially towards Christmas, X96/276 being turned at Stourbridge due to late running, leaving significant gaps in service between Stourbridge and Norton/Wollaston.

IMO they should bring back the old 289/90 service so that the 276/X96 can terminate at Stourbridge.

Oh yes, let's change a service so because of 1 month a year! Also bit hypocritical from you, considering you slate NX about splitting services so people end up paying more?

By that logic, lets split every route, tell me a route that doesn't get affected around Christmas for christ sake!

Quote from: Dom on September 29, 2017, 09:11:34 PM
Oh yes, let's change a service so because of 1 month a year! Also bit hypocritical from you, considering you slate NX about splitting services so people end up paying more?

@Dom, why always the attitude, everybody is entitled to there own views. Personally i have waited for services to show in Stourbridge for Norton before now and have waited and waited and waited while 276E after 276E comes and turns around.

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on September 29, 2017, 09:19:47 PM
@Dom, why always the attitude, everybody is entitled to there own views. Personally i have waited for services to show in Stourbridge for Norton before now and have waited and waited and waited while 276E after 276E comes and turns around.

Because it's either hypocritical or illogical. I know for a fact, you wouldn't see 2 276E's for Stourbridge in a row, 9/10 they only get adjusted if there is two together.

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on September 29, 2017, 09:07:55 PM
Oh yes they do, especially towards Christmas,

Doesn't that happen anyway though? Birmingham is an absolute nightmare towards Christmas!

Quote from: Dom on September 29, 2017, 09:01:11 PM
Are you serious?! Split the 81? People like myself who finish work at Merry Hill at 10pm would then have no direct route back home. Roseville would also lose its direct link with merry hill which it's had since 2007(iirc) through the 283 and 583.

Yet it was fine before 2008.

With the 81 you have traffic out of Wolverhampton as well as Merry Hill screwing things up, that is why I am in favour of a 283 (random number picked out of my head) running Merry Hill - Wrens Nest, replacing the X96 round Wrens Nest and the 81 between Merry Hill and Dudley.

Quote from: Dom on September 29, 2017, 09:01:11 PM
The X96 nor 276  hardly suffers with reliability, unless there is a reason, such as roadworks, diversions etc.

So you think it is acceptable to have to wait 45-60 minutes for a bus from work at Christmas or whenever Merry Hill is up the crapper? No thank you. What is needed is the X96 to go back to its roots as a Stourbridge - Dudley limited stop service, with it running limited stop along the Amblecote Road in the daytime (maybe number it 96 during the evenings as it would call at all stops during those times. You have the Diamond services running all stops on the Amblecote Road twice an hour during the day so there would be no detriment to passengers.

The 276 has several pinch points, that is why I suggested splitting it at Stourbridge with Wollaston and Norton getting a local service (with them terminating at Stourbridge Junction as opposed to Stourbridge Interchange in order to connect as well with local mainline rail services)

Quote from: Dom on September 29, 2017, 09:01:11 PM
You live on the 226 route, so I don't get how those routes affect you anyway. Thanks for your pointless and uneducated opinions!

This is why these consultations shouldn't happen IMO.

Yeah, but I did make what I think are valid suggestions. Plus the 276/X96 would affect me should Uber lose their licence in the midlands, as half of the forum want them to for no good reason, as they are the only buses that would be viable to
get me home. Personally though I would kind of be in favour of a Merry Hill - Stourbridge service that ran via Wordsley, such as what MRW ran up until 2001, and not like Diamond's 251 which is useless for me to get to/from work.

Quote from: V89MOA on September 29, 2017, 09:35:44 PM
Doesn't that happen anyway though? Birmingham is an absolute nightmare towards Christmas!

Yes i know, but as NX now seem to want to split all major routes in the area (74, 87, 126), then why not do it to actually help customers.

The old 289/90 service, Stourbridge - Wollaston Farm - High Park - Norton - Stourbridge would be better than the X96 and 276. There are plenty of connections at Stourbridge to Merry Hill & Dudley and changing bus might actually save people time.

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on September 29, 2017, 09:43:50 PM
Yes i know, but as NX now seem to want to split all major routes in the area (74, 87, 126), then why not do it to actually help customers.

The old 289/90 service, Stourbridge - Wollaston Farm - High Park - Norton - Stourbridge would be better than the X96 and 276. There are plenty of connections at Stourbridge to Merry Hill & Dudley and changing bus might actually save people time.

Something like the old MRW 234 could also be a contender. Brierley Hill - Wordsley - Wollaston - Norton - Stourbridge. Turn the service so it runs up to Brierley Hill via Brockmoor and Bank Street and out via Moor Street, Fenton Street and Brockmoor. Plenty of Merry Hill - Brierley Hill services (especially if NXWM did a similar system to London and offered a Hopper fare.)

I would also run a Ashwood Park - Dudley via Merry Hill and Holly Hall, acting as a stopper to the X96 limited stop service, with the X96 operating a route via either Peartree Lane or Holly Hall Church (X96 non stop Pedmore Road - Top Church)

In regards to the 205, I am all in favour for the X10 extension to Kingswinford, it's great after work to get the X10 to pensnett trading estate. Often usually the only passenger that gets off there but it saves me getting stuck in the brierley hill, Dell stadium and Bromley  (especially during school time) traffic. The only traffic I would have to put up with is the Dudley road traffic which looks bad but shifts nicely. The idea for the Bromley connections to Dudley I would be in favour for a wolverhampton to Dudley 254 which would give connections for wall heath and womborne to Russell's hall hospital

Quote from: the trainbasher on September 29, 2017, 09:39:11 PM
Yet it was fine before 2008.

With the 81 you have traffic out of Wolverhampton as well as Merry Hill screwing things up, that is why I am in favour of a 283 (random number picked out of my head) running Merry Hill - Wrens Nest, replacing the X96 round Wrens Nest and the 81 between Merry Hill and Dudley.

Doesn't get affected coming out of Wolverhampton because of the way it exits the city.

The fact this link has been around for almost 10 years shows that it is well used!

Quote from: Chris on September 29, 2017, 10:00:47 PM
In regards to the 205, I am all in favour for the X10 extension to Kingswinford, it's great after work to get the X10 to pensnett trading estate. Often usually the only passenger that gets off there but it saves me getting stuck in the brierley hill, Dell stadium and Bromley  (especially during school time) traffic. The only traffic I would have to put up with is the Dudley road traffic which looks bad but shifts nicely. The idea for the Bromley connections to Dudley I would be in favour for a wolverhampton to Dudley 254 which would give connections for wall heath and womborne to Russell's hall hospital

The 205 definitely needs something to be done, the X10 extension would be a very good idea. It's a shame in a way that this project is being undertaken by NE rather than Network West Midlands. Then all services in Dudley could have been reviewed and sorted out, if the X10 does get the go ahead, the 205 will then only run on Sundays.

Quote from: Dom on September 29, 2017, 10:07:20 PM
Doesn't get affected coming out of Wolverhampton because of the way it exits the city.

The fact this link has been around for almost 10 years shows that it is well used!

Still hits the Birmingham New Road though and we all know how that can go whenever the M5/M6 are up the shithouse without a paddle

Quote from: the trainbasher on September 29, 2017, 10:13:54 PM
Still hits the Birmingham New Road though and we all know how that can go whenever the M5/M6 are up the shithouse without a paddle

Except 9/10 reaches the Laburnum Road and Roseville timing points on time? And by that logic, should we cut the 126 since it goes down the Birmingham New Road.

Quote from: Dom on September 29, 2017, 10:22:47 PM
Except 9/10 reaches the Laburnum Road and Roseville timing points on time? And by that logic, should we cut the 126 since it goes down the Birmingham New Road.

The 126 being cut at Dudley is one of NX's proposals.

Quote from: 2206 on September 29, 2017, 10:24:40 PM
The 126 being cut at Dudley is one of NX's proposals.

This is my point, a lot of the proposals in the survey involve cutting services in half. Sadly, although I am against it very much, it is going to happen. The excuse for it is heavier loadings and more disruption, affecting journey times.

Whether or not customers are going to be happy that services that have existed for decades, 74, 87, 126 for example is very debatable.

I like the idea of the 140 going express and increasing the frequency to every 20 minutes. I also feel like the 126 should be express, but only along the Hagley Road.

Can see the 129 going. It just doesn't seem profitable. Perhaps as an alternative to withdrawing the 129, it could run between Birmingham & West Bromwich again, getting rid of this 48A business, the route is essentially a 129E (the old 129)

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on September 29, 2017, 09:43:50 PM
Yes i know, but as NX now seem to want to split all major routes in the area (74, 87, 126), then why not do it to actually help customers.

I don't remember any talk of splitting the 87.

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on September 29, 2017, 10:31:30 PM
This is my point, a lot of the proposals in the survey involve cutting services in half. Sadly, although I am against it very much, it is going to happen. The excuse for it is heavier loadings and more disruption, affecting journey times.

Whether or not customers are going to be happy that services that have existed for decades, 74, 87, 126 for example is very debatable.

I'm starting to come round to the idea myself. It's not the most ideal situation, but if it improves reliability, it's for the best.

I agree with the ^ post. At over an 1 and 30 minutes, the 126 does seem excessively long. I personally don't agree with shortening the route as I feel as though Birmingham could do with a bus connection to Wolves, despite the metro being quicker. I think the route should be limited stop throughout the entire course of the route, following a similar/ identical course along the Hagley Road like the X10. Coming off Hagley Road, it should be missing every other stop. I know it may seem slightly excessive but if it helps running the route quicker then hopefully it could work.

I like the idea of the 140 being increased too but not if it means the 241 will be cut.

Would be surprised if the 126 was split as that would be Wolves depot last remaining link with Brum.

(In fact historically isnt that one of the few services from the Midland Red days still going largely unchanged route wise?)

In fact, discounting Coventry & Dundee, this would make Wolves the only depot without at least one Brum route.

Quote from: Sh4318 on September 30, 2017, 01:24:46 AM

I don't remember any talk of splitting the 87.

Sorry that is my mistake, misread the survey.

Regarding service 126 I think it should be back to pre 2004.

Service 126 12 minute service to Birmingham
Service 125 12 minute service Dudley Wolverhampton

Then if the 126s are delayed at least Dudley Wolverhampton
Section still have a bus every 12 minutes at least.

Also possibly make 126 limited stop between Dudley Wolverhampton as service 125 making all stops.

Quote from: GeminiFan1991 on September 30, 2017, 02:25:13 AM
I agree with the ^ post. At over an 1 and 30 minutes, the 126 does seem excessively long. I personally don't agree with shortening the route as I feel as though Birmingham could do with a bus connection to Wolves, despite the metro being quicker. I think the route should be limited stop throughout the entire course of the route, following a similar/ identical course along the Hagley Road like the X10. Coming off Hagley Road, it should be missing every other stop. I know it may seem slightly excessive but if it helps running the route quicker then hopefully it could work.

Personally, I disagree. Why would anyone use the 126 end to end when the Midland Metro is so much quicker (I know its not going all the way to Wolverhampton at the minute due to tram track works, but it should be back in Wolverhampton in January 2018), there is the train as well which is even quicker.

Quote from: Sh4318 on September 30, 2017, 01:24:46 AM
I'm starting to come round to the idea myself. It's not the most ideal situation, but if it improves reliability, it's for the best.

Agreed.

Quote from: PB2938 on September 30, 2017, 10:28:46 AM
Regarding service 126 I think it should be back to pre 2004.

Service 126 12 minute service to Birmingham
Service 125 12 minute service Dudley Wolverhampton

Then if the 126s are delayed at least Dudley Wolverhampton
Section still have a bus every 12 minutes at least.

Also possibly make 126 limited stop between Dudley Wolverhampton as service 125 making all stops.

Completely agree! 100%

Quote from: PB2938 on September 30, 2017, 10:28:46 AM
Regarding service 126 I think it should be back to pre 2004.

Service 126 12 minute service to Birmingham
Service 125 12 minute service Dudley Wolverhampton

Then if the 126s are delayed at least Dudley Wolverhampton
Section still have a bus every 12 minutes at least.

Also possibly make 126 limited stop between Dudley Wolverhampton as service 125 making all stops.

Wouldn't that give the Dudley - Wolves corridor a weird frequency though? They'd start at every 12 mins each, but since the 126 would be limited stop, surely it'd be faster than the 125, and result in them bunching up once you get near to the terminus?

Quote from: 2206 on September 30, 2017, 10:53:12 AM
Personally, I disagree. Why would anyone use the 126 end to end when the Midland Metro is so much quicker (I know its not going all the way to Wolverhampton at the minute due to tram track works, but it should be back in Wolverhampton in January 2018), there is the train as well which is even quicker.
Agreed.

I doubt that anyone would use it fully end to end when the Metro or train is much quicker but it's also all the intermediate places coming out of Wolverhampton and out towards Dudley that would lose their link - Parkfields, Coseley etc, etc. Having said that, on the (albeit infrequent) occasions I've used the 126, it does pretty much empty in Dudley and a whole new set of people get on there.

Quote from: Mike K on September 30, 2017, 01:02:23 PM
I doubt that anyone would use it fully end to end when the Metro or train is much quicker but it's also all the intermediate places coming out of Wolverhampton and out towards Dudley that would lose their link - Parkfields, Coseley etc, etc. Having said that, on the (albeit infrequent) occasions I've used the 126, it does pretty much empty in Dudley and a whole new set of people get on there.

But people do still use it through, the 125 and 126 suggestion I think would be brilliant if the 126 was every 10 but limited stop and the 125 every 15-20.

On note of the metro, People would catch the bus because quite frankly it's cheaper! Plus would NX want to cut their only line to Birmingham and lose passengers (and revenue) to the metro, which don't
Forget NX won't operate on from next year.

They could introduce another route between Wolves & Brum & still cut the 126 in half.

Maybe bring back a version of the 979, if they wanted to compete with the Metro?

Quote from: Westy on September 30, 2017, 08:52:58 PM
They could introduce another route between Wolves & Brum & still cut the 126 in half.

Maybe bring back a version of the 979, if they wanted to compete with the Metro?

Would have to miss Soho road out to have any hope of being an express route

Quote from: Lukeee on October 01, 2017, 12:08:59 PM
Would have to miss Soho road out to have any hope of being an express route

You could have an Express 979 or similar run along the A34 to Perry Barr using the flyovers etc and then limited stop go via the A4040 Church Lane (as the 11) + then continue along Oxhill Road and Sandwell Road to get onto the A41 near the WBA ground. At least this would miss the worst of Soho Road traffic and also give that stretch of the A4040 up to Perry Barr a City service. It could also then use the bypass from the M5 J1 into West Brom and beyond. That would surely be a quicker route between Birmingham and West Brom than any current route at present so could possibly work.

An issue would be during West Brom home games as that always delays things round there.

Quote from: Westy on September 30, 2017, 07:00:41 AM
Would be surprised if the 126 was split as that would be Wolves depot last remaining link with Brum.

(In fact historically isnt that one of the few services from the Midland Red days still going largely unchanged route wise?)

The 126 is indeed one of the few ex-Midland Red services still largely unchanged, and in fact it has been largely unchanged since it started back in 1952.  However, other services have an even longer history.

The 120 and 140 (also ex-Midland Red services) have had those numbers since 1928.  The 140 has been basically in its current form since 1939, when its Dudley - Gornal Wood section was taken away, and the 120 since 1953, when it was rerouted via Oakham instead of the New Road.

The 74 and 87 have used those numbers since Birmingham Corporation tramway days - the 74 since 1924, the 87 since 1928 (although bus service 87 was numbered B87 from 1939 to 1968).

In 1974, the bus services between Birmingham and Dudley were the 74, 87, 120, 125, 126 and 140.  It isn't much different now!

In my opinion, if there has to be services through Dudley and / or Merry Hill they should only be winding local routes on one side and more direct on the other.

For example, the 81 in order to be more useful to those north of Dudley should be more direct (perhaps alongside an extended 82 but I realise that's unlikely), and a more direct 276 could be more attractive to people from the Lye / Pedmore area if it went more direct to Dudley, with the rest of the route separate

Regarding the 126, I would suggest it stays as a through route but express Brum - Dudley, with another route (perhaps via Warley instead of Hagley Road) taking up all the stops on the Wolverhampton Road.

I like the proposal of an Express Dudley Road route but fear where it'd go beyond Oldbury, as I personally think flagship routes like Expresses shouldn't then go on to become winding local routes beyond, kind of defeats the object

I don't think there's any issue with the 126 between Dudley and Wolverhampton right now, even travelling at peak times, they still run okay. You do get traffic, but it's nothing that bad and they don't tend to bunch up either. However, I'm not sure if this has any knock on effect on the route between Dudley and Birmingham or not, so if splitting the route at Dudley means that it's more reliable at the other end, then I can't say I'm against it. It would be sad to see Wolverhampton lose it's bus link to Birmingham though, so I would say that the 79 should be extended back to Birmingham if this happens, especially since NX won't be running the Metro next year. It could even replace the 74 between West Bromwich and Birmingham, if that route is split in half.

Okay, get ready to shoot me down in flames, here are my suggestions for routes mainly in and out of Birmingham for the Dudley review:
15 Birmingham to West Bromwich (via 74 route) to run in City Centre the same as 16.
X11 as route X10 then as 140 to Dudley. 140/241 withdrawn, X10 and X11 to run every 15 minutes each to combine an express service from City to Quinton (every 7-8 minutes), much better than the stupid sprint idea.
9 and 126 every 10 minutes each combining every 5 minutes from City to Hagley Road (the 9 already runs every 10 minutes on Saturdays).
74 Dudley to West Bromwich only. (74 and new 15 to use adjacent bus stops at West Bromwich bus station to make it easier to swap buses.

Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 08, 2017, 06:59:29 PM
Okay, get ready to shoot me down in flames, here are my suggestions for routes mainly in and out of Birmingham for the Dudley review:
15 Birmingham to West Bromwich (via 74 route) to run in City Centre the same as 16.
X11 as route X10 then as 140 to Dudley. 140/241 withdrawn, X10 and X11 to run every 15 minutes each to combine an express service from City to Quinton (every 7-8 minutes), much better than the stupid sprint idea.
9 and 126 every 10 minutes each combining every 5 minutes from City to Hagley Road (the 9 already runs every 10 minutes on Saturdays).
74 Dudley to West Bromwich only. (74 and new 15 to use adjacent bus stops at West Bromwich bus station to make it easier to swap buses.

I actually like that idea. Very much so. Can't see the X10 & the express 140 replacement (if it happens) being every 15 minutes though, especially with the 4M being every 20

I'll admit, I'm not the greatest supporter for the idea of having the 74 being split up. People don't like change, but they'll adjust. :(

Quote from: CL on October 08, 2017, 07:51:40 PM
I'll admit, I'm not the greatest supporter for the idea of having the 74 being split up. People don't like change, but they'll adjust. :(

I actually believe it will be a very positive change for the route, means both sections would be more reliable.

Quote from: Dom on October 08, 2017, 08:04:12 PM
I actually believe it will be a very positive change for the route, means both sections would be more reliable.

I agree.

Quote from: Sh4318 on October 08, 2017, 07:03:20 PM
I actually like that idea. Very much so. Can't see the X10 & the express 140 replacement (if it happens) being every 15 minutes though, especially with the 4M being every 20

You say that. I'd say the 4M would support a 15 mins frequency

The one idea they don't appear to have come up with is splitting the 9, the route between Halesowen and Birmingham is a lot busier than the Stourbridge - Halesowen part.

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 09, 2017, 12:50:02 PM
The one idea they don't appear to have come up with is splitting the 9, the route between Halesowen and Birmingham is a lot busier than the Stourbridge - Halesowen part.

You clearly haven't seen some of the loadings especially when colleges finish

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 09, 2017, 12:50:02 PM
The one idea they don't appear to have come up with is splitting the 9, the route between Halesowen and Birmingham is a lot busier than the Stourbridge - Halesowen part.

Mostly focusing on Dudley routes in this though aren't they?

Quote from: Trident 4194 on October 09, 2017, 02:56:11 PM
You clearly haven't seen some of the loadings especially when colleges finish

But how many of those travel past Halesowen?  Plus the college loadings are at one particular part of the day.

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 09, 2017, 12:50:02 PM
The one idea they don't appear to have come up with is splitting the 9, the route between Halesowen and Birmingham is a lot busier than the Stourbridge - Halesowen part.

The Hagley Road Sprint route (when it eventually launches) will make the 9 less busy. ;)

Tbh, the way it's going, can you ever see it launching?

Quote from: Kevin on October 09, 2017, 07:43:52 AM
You say that. I'd say the 4M would support a 15 mins frequency

That's a fair argument. I wouldn't know myself, I never see it

Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on October 09, 2017, 12:50:02 PM
The one idea they don't appear to have come up with is splitting the 9, the route between Halesowen and Birmingham is a lot busier than the Stourbridge - Halesowen part.

Wasnt Brum to Halesowen the original route before it got linked with the 130 years ago?

Quote from: Westy on October 09, 2017, 07:49:23 PM
Wasnt Brum to Halesowen the original route before it got linked with the 130 years ago?

The 9 was originally City to Quinton

Quote from: Steve3229vp on October 09, 2017, 07:51:48 PM
The 9 was originally City to Quinton

That's right terminating just past the cinema in Quinton in the pull in.

With talks of changing/getting rid of the 127/140/241, would it be worth making these routes in between Dudley and Blackheath for both into a circular route.

Let's call it D1 and D2 for now
D1 going the 140/241 route from Dudley to Blackheath and then back to Dudley via the 127 route
and the D2 doing the opposite way around

thoughts anyone?

Quote from: OH25 on October 09, 2017, 09:54:10 PM
With talks of changing/getting rid of the 127/140/241, would it be worth making these routes in between Dudley and Blackheath for both into a circular route.

Let's call it D1 and D2 for now
D1 going the 140/241 route from Dudley to Blackheath and then back to Dudley via the 127 route
and the D2 doing the opposite way around

thoughts anyone?

I get the feeling Dudley to Blackheath (127 route) isn't very profitable

Quote from: OH25 on October 09, 2017, 09:54:10 PM
With talks of changing/getting rid of the 127/140/241, would it be worth making these routes in between Dudley and Blackheath for both into a circular route.

Let's call it D1 and D2 for now
D1 going the 140/241 route from Dudley to Blackheath and then back to Dudley via the 127 route
and the D2 doing the opposite way around

thoughts anyone?

Circular services in general just don't work - remember the ill fated and short-lived 87A/C and 89A/C?

Quote from: Mike K on October 09, 2017, 10:04:55 PM
Circular services in general just don't work - remember the ill fated and short-lived 87A/C and 89A/C?

Slightly of topic but I don't remember these, was it the full brum to dudley route as a circular or something else?

Quote from: Lukeee on October 09, 2017, 10:08:59 PM
Slightly of topic but I don't remember these, was it the full brum to dudley route as a circular or something else?

No it was just the Old Hill end of the route that was a loop - I don't recall the exact details but after Dudley they did a loop around Old Hill, Timbertree and Cradley Heath. Lack of layover time tends to result in reliability issues on circulars.

Quote from: Mike K on October 09, 2017, 10:23:58 PM
No it was just the Old Hill end of the route that was a loop - I don't recall the exact details but after Dudley they did a loop around Old Hill, Timbertree and Cradley Heath. Lack of layover time tends to result in reliability issues on circulars.

Must admit I miss the old 370 / 371 Walsall Circulars, as it enabled me to go round from my bit of Leamore to Reedswood Retail Park without having to change in Walsall.

 The 127 evening and weekend journeys is tendered from blackheath and Dudley that's why NX run it, hardly any one use it to get to Dudley from brum, those that do say driver never ever again same for the old 89 service. From my own my own observations the 127 from practically empties at the George Warley,
To be honest I,m amazed the 127 to Dudley is still going , it's been at least 2 years I think

Yes, I was surprised when they extended the 127, particularly as it hadn't it hadn't worked under the old 88.

Think that part of the route would work much better as a stand alone service.

I've been pondering on this, and you make some good points, but if the 127 was split, would a standalone route between Blackheath and Dudley be viable?
Here's an interesting one then, if the 74 was split, would the section between West Bromwich and Dudley be viable on its own?
Could it then be feasible to combine both to create a route from Blackheath to West Bromwich via Dudley? If the West Brom-Dudley section needs a higher frequency, then run extra -E journeys along that part, so for example half-hourly between Blackheath and West Brom, but every ten minutes between West Brom and Dudley. Any good?

Probably a daft proposal but with the 87 every 10 mins and the 74 every 10 mins, if the 74 was divided could not the 87 be Birmingham to West Bromwich via Dudley, don't know how reliable the 87 is to accomodate this?

Would save drivers having to travel to/from Oldbury for crew change?

Problem is with the Dudley to Blackheath section of the 127 is that the timings are quite tight for 1/2 hour running, maybe it should be a standalone service with a 40 minute frequency or maybe extend the service to Halesowen if the 241 is withdrawn?

The 74/87 did once operate on the same running card decades a go it wasn't successful i,m told reliability was an issue etc , I would say bring it on good riddance west brom station drivers welcome to the 82/87 .
The rumour I heard a while back was The Farm would operate the 74E from Dudley to West Brom,
The old 205 section between Dudley and blackheath has always been basket case.

Would they renumber in this review? I think it's the only part of region that has it's original 200s numbering

Quote from: Chris on October 12, 2017, 04:35:44 PM
Would they renumber in this review? I think it's the only part of region that has it's original 200s numbering

I'd imagine it will tbh

If the X10 was to replace the 205 (pensnett to Kingswinford) would NX renumber it X11?

Quote from: Chris on November 15, 2017, 05:49:20 PM
If the X10 was to replace the 205 (pensnett to Kingswinford) would NX renumber it X11?

and why ????

Has there been any info on when the results of the consultation/network review will be announced?

Quote from: DJ98 on January 28, 2018, 10:11:13 PM
Has there been any info on when the results of the consultation/network review will be announced?

Strangely the Dudley consultation has now disappeared of the nx website, so who knows.  Maybe an announcement is imminent, or it has been scrapped.

Quote from: sonic84 on January 29, 2018, 01:40:38 PM
Strangely the Dudley consultation has now disappeared of the nx website, so who knows.  Maybe an announcement is imminent, or it has been scrapped.

Or maybe they are going to come up with revised ideas again which will need to be put out to consultation??

Any news on this yet ?

I've heard WN Drivers saying that the 126 is changing or being split and re-numbered at that they are taking over the 140 and 120 routes into Birmingham ?

Why is the 126 still a long route, when the 79 was split?

Is it so each depot has at least one Brum route?

Quote from: Westy on May 15, 2018, 10:47:03 PM
Why is the 126 still a long route, when the 79 was split?

Is it so each depot has at least one Brum route?

I reckon the 79 being cut back was possibly due to competition with the Metro, since it mirrored the route pretty closeley.

Rumour mill in full swing at west brom and pensnett

120A to terminate in Oldbury as 120E did as before
127 between blackheath and Dudley to be rerouted using 140 route
140 to become express route
241 will cover the old 205/127/88  route from Dudley to blackheath
289 frequency to be increased to deal with rowley and lion farm estate
The new X87 will interworked with the new  express 140 service

I must stress this is all driver gossip and hearsay not concrete in any shape or form

Quote from: 2900 on May 16, 2018, 01:41:01 PM
Rumour mill in full swing at west brom and pensnett

120A to terminate in Oldbury as 120E did as before
127 between blackheath and Dudley to be rerouted using 140 route
140 to become express route
241 will cover the old 205/127/88  route from Dudley to blackheath
289 frequency to be increased to deal with rowley and lion farm estate
The new X87 will interworked with the new  express 140 service

I must stress this is all driver gossip and hearsay not concrete in any shape or form

If there is an express 140 then it will probably be an X11 to run alongside the X10

Quote from: 2900 on May 16, 2018, 01:41:01 PM
Rumour mill in full swing at west brom and pensnett

120A to terminate in Oldbury as 120E did as before
127 between blackheath and Dudley to be rerouted using 140 route
140 to become express route
241 will cover the old 205/127/88  route from Dudley to blackheath
289 frequency to be increased to deal with rowley and lion farm estate
The new X87 will interworked with the new  express 140 service

I must stress this is all driver gossip and hearsay not concrete in any shape or form

Any gossip about new or cascaded vehicles with all of this?

Quote from: don on May 16, 2018, 11:46:08 PM


Any gossip about new or cascaded vehicles with all of this?

its cockwomble😂

Express & star  today says  Dudley network  & nx bus are
Undertaking  a review of its Dudley bus network in the autumn it's on p15 if anyone wants to look

Anyone know if this be seen online please ? ( haven't got paper tonight )

Rumours amongst drivers is that 126 will cease and become an X7 or X8 taking on the 140 from Dudley and part of 289 / 87 as another route proposal ?

Confirmed date for the changes is 2nd September. Information to be out in August.

Quote from: Dom on July 12, 2018, 03:43:14 PM
Confirmed date for the changes is 2nd September. Information to be out in August.

Lees time than the South Brum network. And while a fair number of people won't be at work/school to really find out. Nice

Quote from: Kevin on July 12, 2018, 04:10:35 PM
Lees time than the South Brum network. And while a fair number of people won't be at work/school to really find out. Nice

That was taken from the NX website. Really should be giving more time tbh.

I can see the 2** numbers going :(

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on July 12, 2018, 04:22:27 PM
I can see the 2** numbers going :(

some not all of them 😊

Quote from: karl724223 on July 12, 2018, 04:49:39 PM
some not all of them 😊

246 staying :D and the X96 finally losing it's pointless X

So is the 120 getting new/electric buses?

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on July 12, 2018, 05:53:47 PM
246 staying :D and the X96 finally losing it's pointless X

yes/no

Quote from: MW on July 12, 2018, 06:16:26 PM
So is the 120 getting new/electric buses?

It will be the 12/12A I don't know if the route will be split between PN and WB after the changes

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on July 12, 2018, 07:09:30 PM
It will be the 12/12A I don't know if the route will be split between PN and WB after the changes

The 12A was said in the consultation leaflet to be operated by double deckers. Whether these are the Tridents at PE, or ALX400/Enviros at WB is yet to be seen

Quote from: Dom on July 12, 2018, 03:43:14 PM
Confirmed date for the changes is 2nd September. Information to be out in August.

Actually saw notices on buses about this yesterday. This is probably the best way to do it, get the word out there that there are changes coming and that info will be out soon. Much better than nothing, nothing, nothing, BAM here's what the buses will be like in 3 weeks

Rumour mill, 12A interworked with the 13 and 13A
129 to carry on as the 13b to blackheath
126 renumbered the 26 not the 15

Just rumours I stress not gospel

13,A,B will also get its own livery in due course  😀

This traffic notice.

Is anything actually happening with WA 11/13, as this traffic notice suggests it is?

From the registrations I see:
So the proposed X7 and X8 are happening.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522373/

246 is being renumbered 6.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522618/

X96 renumbered 8.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522577/

241 renumbered 14 operating between Dudley and Halesowen
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522495/

205 renumbered 5.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522496/

X10 extended to Gornall Wood.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522495/

11 and 13 changed - now 11 and 11A.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522686/

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522724/

255/256/257 now 15/A, 16/S and 17
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522673/

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522494/

3/A replaces 120A and 289.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522507/


13/13A replaces 127/8.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522703/

301/302 renumbered 31/32.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522571/

120/A and 121 replaced by 12/A
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522576/

276 renumbered 7.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522679/

222 replaced by 2/2a
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522497/

243/4 replaced by service 18 and 19.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522575/

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522708/
Not sure if there's an error there but I notice the 14 registation has changed and is showing via Marston Green.
There also appears to be some sort of change to the 55/94 and 72/A on that side of the West Midlands. Are these timetable changes or something else?

The Birmingham to Dudley section of the 126 seems to be keeping its current 126 route number.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522674/

121 withdrawn.
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/522260/

There also seems to be a new 43A route, alongside the 42 and 43. If I had to guess, they will alternate between running past SWB Academy and running past Loxdale into Bilston.

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/521667/

So the 'original' 13 is going to be the 11a then?

And finally the 301 & 302 are being renumbered 31 & 32, but why does the registration say Walsall to Mossley for both routes?

Quote from: 2206 on July 20, 2018, 07:43:54 PM
There also appears to be some sort of change to the 55/94 and 72/A on that side of the West Midlands. Are these timetable changes or something else?

There may be a number of such registrations dated 2 September - usually just the end of 'summer holiday' timetables and other relevant minor adjustments for the new school year.

If the 255 is to be renumbered 15, that would suggest that the rumour that the 126 might be remunerated 26 (as posted by 2900 this week) could be true? I'm assuming that there wouldn't be two number 15s in the Dudley area?

Quote from: StourValley98 on July 20, 2018, 08:12:27 PM
There also seems to be a new 43A route, alongside the 42 and 43. If I had to guess, they will alternate between running past SWB Academy and running past Loxdale into Bilston.

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/521667/

these service changes are for 19th August ? ( something to do with that new TfWM thing ????

Quote from: Jack6101 on July 20, 2018, 11:23:55 PM
these service changes are for 19th August ? ( something to do with that new TfWM thing ????

Good catch, this is probably the wrong thread then. Oops.  :o

The East Birmingham changes on the 14,55,72 and 94 might just be the end of summer holiday schedules.

Quote from: Brummie45 on July 21, 2018, 08:15:43 AM
The East Birmingham changes on the 14,55,72 and 94 might just be the end of summer holiday schedules.

Are the timetables that start tomorrow with regards to the South Birmingham changes summer ones also? Does that mean they'll change later on?

Quote from: MasterPlan on July 21, 2018, 10:43:23 AM
Are the timetables that start tomorrow with regards to the South Birmingham changes summer ones also? Does that mean they'll change later on?

Some will indeed - the following note appears on one of the relevant South Birmingham Review pages on the NXWM website: "Please be aware that timetables will change to allow for increased traffic when schools return from 2nd September. "

While at Walsall last week I was told every bus stop flag will be changed on Saturday night by an army of TFWM contractors, God did I laugh

Seen some of the running boards for sept 12A/13/13A interworked,
13A (127) terminates blackheath
Some 12A/12E journeys start in Oldbury after coming off the 13 drop back very tight indeed  5 minutes, come Friday Saturday night could be an issue , hoping this will be rectified by sept
Fewer duties it seems so less buses could be.

We OLDBURY drivers looking forward to driving double deckers up and down tower rd should be entertaining me finks, I did drive up there on diversion using a Merc 0405N don't recall any issues

Quote from: 2900 on August 02, 2018, 09:51:16 AM
Seen some of the running boards for sept 12A/13/13A interworked,
13A (127) terminates blackheath
Some 12A/12E journeys start in Oldbury after coming off the 13 drop back very tight indeed  5 minutes, come Friday Saturday night could be an issue , hoping this will be rectified by sept
Fewer duties it seems so less buses could be.

Will the 12(120) be moving garages?

Quote from: Sh4318 on August 02, 2018, 10:27:39 AM
Will the 12(120) be moving garages?

12 and 13A to be operated by Pensnett.

Quote from: Dom on August 02, 2018, 10:41:50 AM
12 and 13A to be operated by Pensnett.

Will Pensnett be getting the 126 as well?

Quote from: 2206 on August 02, 2018, 10:43:10 AM
Will Pensnett be getting the 126 as well?

Indeed.

Quote from: Dom on August 02, 2018, 11:23:44 AM
Indeed.

Is Pensnett's allocation / overall work load expected to change much?

Quote from: Winston on August 02, 2018, 11:36:56 AM
Is Pensnett's allocation / overall work load expected to change much?

I don't know exact details but I've been told by drivers that a lot of Merry Hill drivers are to be moved to Dudley.

Quote from: Dom on August 02, 2018, 10:41:50 AM
12 and 13A to be operated by Pensnett.

12 (120) pensnett operated
12A 13 13A westbromwich from the running cards I have seen.

Quote from: Dom on August 02, 2018, 11:47:59 AM
I don't know exact details but I've been told by drivers that a lot of Merry Hill drivers are to be moved to Dudley.

No 129 to merryhill, 3 3A (289) moving to westbromwich that's a fair few drivers there

Timetables for the 3/3A & X10 commencing September are on the NWM website

Quote from: Sh4318 on August 03, 2018, 10:49:13 AM
Timetables for the 3/3A & X10 commencing September are on the NWM website

Would have thought they'd put the 3 and 3A on the same timetable
Also, those peak X10 journeys look interesting, wonder if anyone's gonna use it the whole way and spend 2 hours commuting from Gornal Wood to Brum

Quote from: 2900 on August 02, 2018, 02:22:02 PM
12 (120) pensnett operated
12A 13 13A westbromwich from the running cards I have seen.

12,13A & 13B for Pensnett

Quote from: pndriver on August 03, 2018, 12:51:37 PM
12,13A & 13B for Pensnett

It appears both garages will share the 13A
I assume the 12 will have the hourly frequency during the evening

Quote from: 2900 on August 03, 2018, 02:57:06 PM
It appears both garages will share the 13A
I assume the 12 will have the hourly frequency during the evening

Interworking with the 126 on evenings

Anyone got an idea when the general public will know the full details of these changes?

Or are we going to have a repeat of the South Birmingham debacle?   Surely if Drivers know intricate details such as interworking then the changes must be finalised.

Quote from: pndriver on August 03, 2018, 02:59:39 PM
Interworking with the 126 on evenings

Will the 126 be the Hagley Road anomaly that keeps its 1xx numbering, while all the other numbers change?

Quote from: Mike K on August 03, 2018, 03:10:09 PM
Will the 126 be the Hagley Road anomaly that keeps its 1xx numbering, while all the other numbers change?

I thought it was now being re-numbered '26' in lieu of the proposed '15' ?

Quote from: Straightlines on August 03, 2018, 03:05:34 PM
Anyone got an idea when the general public will know the full details of these changes?

Or are we going to have a repeat of the South Birmingham debacle?   Surely if Drivers know intricate details such as interworking then the changes must be finalised.

To be a little bit fair to them, at least this time they've got the info out that there is GOING TO BE changes and to look out for info, which is one step up from the South Brum ones
That said it is leaving it rather late, given previous reviews

Quote from: Winston on August 03, 2018, 03:16:45 PM
I thought it was now being re-numbered '26' in lieu of the proposed '15' ?

you thought wrong 😂

Quote from: Straightlines on August 03, 2018, 03:05:34 PM
Anyone got an idea when the general public will know the full details of these changes?

Or are we going to have a repeat of the South Birmingham debacle?   Surely if Drivers know intricate details such as interworking then the changes must be finalised.

not all drivers know what's going on or know the routes yet there is still some stuff to finalise
Route learning is taking place on three Sunday's in August starting this Sunday 5th

Quote from: karl724223 on August 03, 2018, 04:37:20 PM
not all drivers know what's going on or know the routes yet there is still some stuff to finalise
Route learning is taking place on three Sunday's in August starting this Sunday 5th

If they are starting Route Learning then why can't they let the general public know what's going on? I'm sure these will have been registered with the Traffic Commissioner by now.

It's 1 month away - just like the South Birmingham review there is very little regard for their Customers here.

Quote from: Straightlines on August 03, 2018, 04:43:03 PM
If they are starting Route Learning then why can't they let the general public know what's going on? I'm sure these will have been registered with the Traffic Commissioner by now.

It's 1 month away - just like the South Birmingham review there is very little regard for their Customers here.

how many of the affected routes do you catch ?

Quote from: karl724223 on August 03, 2018, 04:46:13 PM
how many of the affected routes do you catch ?

What's that got to do with you?  Or any of the points I was making?

@Straightlines It's a forum! Everyone is entitled to comment / have an opinion, Winston

Why is the 126 staying the as the 126? No point changing some of them and not all. As it stands you have the 126/7/8/9, now you'll have the 12/A, 13/A & 126. How's that simplyfing things?

Quote from: MasterPlan on August 03, 2018, 06:00:00 PM
Why is the 126 staying the as the 126? No point changing some of them and not all. As it stands you have the 126/7/8/9, now you'll have the 12/A, 13/A & 126. How's that simplyfing things?

Confusion rather than 'simplification'.

Quote from: MasterPlan on August 03, 2018, 06:00:00 PM
Why is the 126 staying the as the 126? No point changing some of them and not all. As it stands you have the 126/7/8/9, now you'll have the 12/A, 13/A & 126. How's that simplyfing things?

It's no less simple than the latest version of the 48 route.

Oh hang on a minute... ;D

Don't see any reason why 15 wasn't good enough

Quote from: Kevin on August 03, 2018, 08:54:13 PM
Don't see any reason why 15 wasn't good enough

Most likely because the 255 is becoming the 15/A

To be fair I can understand the 12 and 12A given the routes are quite similar. I think 13 and 13A suggests the two routes are more similar than they are which could be confusing.

Quote from: sonic84 on August 03, 2018, 09:14:04 PM
To be fair I can understand the 12 and 12A given the routes are quite similar. I think 13 and 13A suggests the two routes are more similar than they are which could be confusing.

And the 13B.

What's the 13B?

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on August 03, 2018, 09:21:31 PM
What's the 13B?

The current 129 route between Birmingham and Blackheath

I find it absurd when there are loads of unused numbers across the network, they are resorting to using A and even B suffixes on routes. A very minor variation on a route, fair enough, but no reason whatsoever to be using route numbers like 13B.

Is the varitation on the Walsall to Dudley corridor small enough to change the existing 13 to 11a?

(Surprised no one asked for the 11's to be rerouted back through Tipton, now the level crossing has been shut?)

Quote from: Mike K on August 03, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
I find it absurd when there are loads of unused numbers across the network, they are resorting to using A and even B suffixes on routes. A very minor variation on a route, fair enough, but no reason whatsoever to be using route numbers like 13B.

I loved it when Travel West Midlands ran regional route numbers. Made life much, much simpler, in my opinion. Renumbering seems like such a farce. Huh, I guess I am against most of these changes because of nostalgia. :P Supposed NX changes these for a *number* of reasons; no pun intended.

Quote from: CL on August 04, 2018, 05:45:46 PM
I loved it when Travel West Midlands ran regional route numbers. Made life much, much simpler, in my opinion. Renumbering seems like such a farce. Huh, I guess I am against most of these changes because of nostalgia. :P Supposed NX changes these for a *number* of reasons; no pun intended.

I agree with you so your not the only one. Having only 1 number 1 route in the region is simpler but if people are staying in one area I guess it doesn't make a difference

Quote from: Westy on August 04, 2018, 04:43:57 PM
Is the varitation on the Walsall to Dudley corridor small enough to change the existing 13 to 11a?

(Surprised no one asked for the 11's to be rerouted back through Tipton, now the level crossing has been shut?)

That portion of the route is partly covered by the 42's that extend to Dudley though, so there isn't much demand for it. I wouldn't want the 11's to be rerouted, but that's just because it'd mean I'd only have the 11A every 20 mins rather than both routes at every 10 mins combined.

Quote from: Dylanbusboy45 on August 04, 2018, 07:35:13 PM
I agree with you so your not the only one. Having only 1 number 1 route in the region is simpler but if people are staying in one area I guess it doesn't make a difference

It is actually simpler in this age of online info to have unique route numbers. Put the 246 into Nxbus.co.uk. and you get one result, soon with the new 6 there will be 4 routes. And as for other websites there are already 14 route 6s on Network West Midlands, and as for TravelineMidlands, well I gave up counting!  >:(

Quote from: Dylanbusboy45 on August 04, 2018, 07:35:13 PM
I agree with you so your not the only one. Having only 1 number 1 route in the region is simpler but if people are staying in one area I guess it doesn't make a difference

I agree - there's no need for all this simplifying it equals confusion.

Are we still complaining about renumbering? Really?

Quote from: Sh4318 on August 04, 2018, 10:19:20 PM
Are we still complaining about renumbering? Really?

Well yes - and with valid reason in some cases. The more it spreads with each review, the more repeated service numbers you get, and if someone does search for a National Express route 6, it is confusing that there are so many of them. And as for 13, 13A and 13B, in what way is that making things simpler?

Quote from: Mike K on August 04, 2018, 11:05:00 PM
Well yes - and with valid reason in some cases. The more it spreads with each review, the more repeated service numbers you get, and if someone does search for a National Express route 6, it is confusing that there are so many of them. And as for 13, 13A and 13B, in what way is that making things simpler?

You get repeated numbers in other areas, and they seem to cope.

I don't see how that's confusing at all, people seem to manage fine with the 4, 4H, 4M. Obviously they've been combined because they will share the same route between Birmingham & the Warley George

Quote from: Sh4318 on August 05, 2018, 12:55:06 AM
You get repeated numbers in other areas, and they seem to cope.

I don't see how that's confusing at all, people seem to manage fine with the 4, 4H, 4M. Obviously they've been combined because they will share the same route between Birmingham & the Warley George

That's because the H used to stand for Halesowen the M for merry hill, it's quite easy to understand and prior to this there was the 404*(cue letter) what does the A and B suffix stand for?

Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 05, 2018, 02:05:46 AM
That's because the H used to stand for Halesowen the M for merry hill, it's quite easy to understand and prior to this there was the 404*(cue letter) what does the A and B suffix stand for?

Perhaps I should have used the 10, 10A and 10B numbered routes - that have been around for a couple of years - as an example, or perhaps the 16, 16A and 16W... or 448, 448A and 448B that once ran. Funnily enough, I'm yet to hear of any complaints regarding these variants

I just don't see why people would struggle to get used to '13A' rather than 127. Are we assuming people are stupid and will get confused by this? Just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining to me

Quote from: Sh4318 on August 05, 2018, 02:21:14 AM
Perhaps I should have used the 10, 10A and 10B numbered routes - that have been around for a couple of years - as an example, or perhaps the 16, 16A and 16W... or 448, 448A and 448B that once ran. Funnily enough, I'm yet to hear of any complaints regarding these variants

I just don't see why people would struggle to get used to '13A' rather than 127. Are we assuming people are stupid and will get confused by this? Just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining to me

It might seem like complaining for complaining sake to you, but I've known the 120 by that number all the time I have been catching buses, the 128/9 have been those numbers for nearly 40 years, you get used to them. Now, we have to learn a completely different set of numbers for local bus routes, at least when the 448 changed, it changed to the 48, these changes are going to be confusing for a long time I think.

I wish myself they had just left the numbers alone, nothing wrong with them and there was the opportunity for NXWM to use other numbers for new or changed routes, not the currently fashionable A or B.

Quote from: Sh4318 on August 05, 2018, 02:21:14 AM
Perhaps I should have used the 10, 10A and 10B numbered routes - that have been around for a couple of years - as an example, or perhaps the 16, 16A and 16W... or 448, 448A and 448B that once ran. Funnily enough, I'm yet to hear of any complaints regarding these variants

I just don't see why people would struggle to get used to '13A' rather than 127. Are we assuming people are stupid and will get confused by this? Just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining to me

Can't comment on the 10 etc as I have no idea of where they go but the others are relatively minor variants, including peak hour or Sunday variants that largely run to the same core route. The use of suffixes here is fair enough to denote that variant. The 13, 13A and 13B, like the 120 and 120A share a common section of route and then go their separate ways. The are no more similar than the 23/24,45/47, 61/63 etc. I'm sure passengers would find it confusing if these corridors used 63 and 63A etc.

The only reason that such ridiculous numbers as 13A and 13B are being used are so that they can be shoehorned in with the X8, 9, X10, 12/A and 126 (!) along the Hagley Road. The 126 illustrating the ridiculouslness of it all.

On route number simplification I,ll throw in my 10 pence worth as well ,let's see

126 - 16
127 - 17
128 - 18
129 - 19

Yes I know we already have a number 16 from city to Hampstead just re,number it too , well what else goes that way oh the 74 , maybe 74H could be utilised , really throw a spanner in the works. 😂

Quote from: 2900 on August 05, 2018, 09:09:52 AM
On route number simplification I,ll throw in my 10 pence worth as well ,let's see

126 - 16
127 - 17
128 - 18
129 - 19

Yes I know we already have a number 16 from city to Hampstead just re,number it too , well what else goes that way oh the 74 , maybe 74H could be utilised , really throw a spanner in the works. 😂

Or maybe use the 75 again for the 16?

Quote from: 2900 on August 05, 2018, 09:09:52 AM
On route number simplification I,ll throw in my 10 pence worth as well ,let's see

126 - 16
127 - 17
128 - 18
129 - 19

Yes I know we already have a number 16 from city to Hampstead just re,number it too , well what else goes that way oh the 74 , maybe 74H could be utilised , really throw a spanner in the works. 😂

255 will be the 15
256 will be the 16
257 will be the 17
243 will be the 18
244 will be the 19

Who knows what will happen for Diamonds 2** routes. @Simon Dunn are these numbers changing also?

I think in the examples of the 404 and 448 the variations were a lot more similar. Didn't the 448A divert to Smethwick High Street and the 448B divert to the Bingo Hall at Barnes Hill otherwise were the same. Similarly the 404H, 404A were extensions to the existing 404 which had been around for years.

Whilst the 13 (127) and 13B (129) are admitted going to very similar the 128 in my opinion should have it's own route number.

Otherwise as Mike K says why don't we have a 63, 63A; 45, 45A; X4, X4A, X4B; 51, 51A, X51.

Quote from: PinkBus on August 05, 2018, 06:28:30 AM
It might seem like complaining for complaining sake to you, but I've known the 120 by that number all the time I have been catching buses, the 128/9 have been those numbers for nearly 40 years, you get used to them. Now, we have to learn a completely different set of numbers for local bus routes, at least when the 448 changed, it changed to the 48, these changes are going to be confusing for a long time I think.

I wish myself they had just left the numbers alone, nothing wrong with them and there was the opportunity for NXWM to use other numbers for new or changed routes, not the currently fashionable A or B.

Are we really suggesting we can't adjust to a number change?

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on August 05, 2018, 10:38:23 AM
255 will be the 15
256 will be the 16
257 will be the 17
243 will be the 18
244 will be the 19

Who knows what will happen for Diamonds 2** routes. @Simon Dunn are these numbers changing also?

To me any way the following would have been better

243 -23
244- 24
255- 25
256-26
257- 27

Most of westbroms 400 series service numbers have become 40,s

Quote from: Sh4318 on August 05, 2018, 10:45:58 AM
Are we really suggesting we can't adjust to a number change?

There,re people in our society who have or suffer from  various mental health issues , for some it's a great deal of effort to get on a bus as pointed out on a recent trip to Walsall for cpc on disability and mental awareness , I find it simply astonishing the company can do this to be honest , the hiprocacy of it all.

Quote from: 2900 on August 05, 2018, 11:03:24 AM
There,re people in our society who have or suffer from  various mental health issues , for some it's a great deal of effort to get on a bus as pointed out on a recent trip to Walsall for cpc on disability and mental awareness , I find it simply astonishing the company can do this to be honest , the hiprocacy of it all.

For exactly the same reason, any new passenger with the same problems who wants to go from Birmingham to Sparkbrook, can remember that they can catch a 2,3,4,5 or 6, than a random collection of numbers

Quote from: 2900 on August 05, 2018, 10:52:23 AM
To me any way the following would have been better

243 -23
244- 24
255- 25
256-26
257- 27

Most of westbroms 400 series service numbers have become 40,s

With a 24 already serving Dudley (and Buffery Road), a 25 already in Wolverhampton and along the start of Penn Road and a 27 serving both Gornal and Dudley, this wouldn't work. 

Quote from: Tony on August 05, 2018, 11:11:46 AM
For exactly the same reason, any new passenger with the same problems who wants to go from Birmingham to Sparkbrook, can remember that they can catch a 2,3,4,5 or 6, than a random collection of numbers

The thing is, the Hagley Road already has a perfectly good series of numbers from 120 upwards, with loads of spare numbers available. The 9 and X10 are exceptions. Why try to shoehorn so many routes into the 12 and 13 numbers, when (as far as I understand) there will still be a 126 that has no consistency with any other route number along that corridor? That's no more straightforward than things are now.

Quote from: Tony on August 05, 2018, 11:11:46 AM
For exactly the same reason, any new passenger with the same problems who wants to go from Birmingham to Sparkbrook, can remember that they can catch a 2,3,4,5 or 6, than a random collection of numbers

Yes, but you can still have consecutive numbers without repeating? To have 4 number 6's is ludicrous, it just causes unnecessary confusion? It makes sense, but why is it any more beneficial to use lower numbers, as opposed to 127 etc? It is much more distinctive for passengers to have more memorable numbers rather than close together low numbers. And also, you generally aren't going to get many tourists in Sparkbrook, so isn't it much easier to keep the numbers as they are because locals already know them as they are.

Also, what is the point in having A or B after a number? It leads passengers to think that they run practically the same route, when some do but others don't. Can't they just use consecutive numbers like they're so keen on doing? 45 and 47 run very similar routes but have different numbers, but 4 and 4A go to completely different destinations, yet they sound as if they are nearly the same.

It seems to me that the whole network is being condensed with no room for expansion in the future.

I bet all these people moaning would have moaned if this was the age of creating the original series of 3xx, 4xx and 5xx numbers
To me, it creates a simpler more local feel to the areas in question, the fact that the 126 isn't now changing is rather annoying actually

Out of curiosity wonder how many people/kids on this forum filled out the consultation forms for the brum/Dudley planned changes when it was running
Also wonder how many have or are going to complain to nx when all the changes are complete
Or are you just going to bally ache on this forum

Quote from: Bus1237 on August 05, 2018, 01:58:22 PM
To have 4 number 6's is ludicrous, it just causes unnecessary confusion?

If the simplifying of numbers was really causing as much confusion as is often claimed, it would have been stopped after the Wolverhampton review, which I believe from memory was the first area to do so?

If the four 6s all operated in the same area, then yes there would be grounds for confusion. But if you lived in Wolverhampton, you'd have to be a special kind of silly to confuse that with the 6 in Birmingham, for example.

Quote from: Kevin on August 05, 2018, 04:57:50 PM
I bet all these people moaning would have moaned if this was the age of creating the original series of 3xx, 4xx and 5xx numbers
To me, it creates a simpler more local feel to the areas in question, the fact that the 126 isn't now changing is rather annoying actually

I agree, I can imagine the comments in a similar vein: "why 328 or 512? Can't they make the route numbers more simple?"  ;D

Quote from: karl724223 on August 05, 2018, 05:05:16 PM
Out of curiosity wonder how many people/kids on this forum filled out the consultation forms for the brum/Dudley planned changes when it was running
Also wonder how many have or are going to complain to nx when all the changes are complete
Or are you just going to bally ache on this forum

I only take part in consultations when they directly affect me, as I don't think it would be right for me to make comments or suggestions regarding services I don't use regularly. Changes should be influenced by passengers who use those services frequently, for travelling to work, school, hospital or shopping.

I posted the details of the Dudley review consultation on my Facebook page on 29th May. Facebook tells me that post reached 15476 people, and it was shared 150 times.

I had lots of negative comments following the East Birmingham/North Solihull review, as well as the recent South Birmingham review. I expect lots once I post the Dudley review changes.

The truth is that change has to happen. Most people adapt to the changes easily, some moan at first and then get used to them.

Now, I'm off to sit in a dark corner and start to chant to myself "the 120 is becoming the 12"... just so I don't get confused come September!  :D

Quote from: karl724223 on August 05, 2018, 05:05:16 PM
Out of curiosity wonder how many people/kids on this forum filled out the consultation forms for the brum/Dudley planned changes when it was running
Also wonder how many have or are going to complain to nx when all the changes are complete
Or are you just going to bally ache on this forum

Very good point Karl.

I'm more concerned with the actual route changes rather than the fact that the 129 is becoming the 13B.

Quote from: Bus1237 on August 05, 2018, 01:58:22 PM
Yes, but you can still have consecutive numbers without repeating? To have 4 number 6's is ludicrous, it just causes unnecessary confusion? It makes sense, but why is it any more beneficial to use lower numbers, as opposed to 127 etc? It is much more distinctive for passengers to have more memorable numbers rather than close together low numbers. And also, you generally aren't going to get many tourists in Sparkbrook, so isn't it much easier to keep the numbers as they are because locals already know them as they are.

Also, what is the point in having A or B after a number? It leads passengers to think that they run practically the same route, when some do but others don't. Can't they just use consecutive numbers like they're so keen on doing? 45 and 47 run very similar routes but have different numbers, but 4 and 4A go to completely different destinations, yet they sound as if they are nearly the same.

Theres no need for stupid simplication as all it does it create confusion. Why do the numbers seriously need renumbering when the current numbers are fine as they're? That's what annoys me. I don't agree with A added to numbers either. An example would be the 52 and 52A, I lost count to how many got confused with with these numbers. 52A could of been a 53. Then it would be the 52 and 53 (if still running). There would be no people constantly asking (does the A go here or there)? Separated numbers would mean hardly any confusion. Or people getting on the wrong bus.

There was also a 28, 28A and 28B as well as the 28E at one point.

Quote from: Jack on August 05, 2018, 07:59:33 PM
Theres no need for stupid simplication as all it does it create confusion. Why do the numbers seriously need renumbering when the current numbers are fine as they're? That's what annoys me. I don't agree with A added to numbers either. An example would be the 52 and 52A, I lost count to how many got confused with with these numbers. 52A could of been a 53. Then it would be the 52 and 53 (if still running. There would be no people constantly asking (does the A go here or there)? Separated numbers would mean hardly any confusion.

There was also a 28, 28A and 28B as well as the 28E at one point.

I still have no clue what the difference between the 48 and 48A

Quote from: karl724223 on August 05, 2018, 05:05:16 PM
Out of curiosity wonder how many people/kids on this forum filled out the consultation forms for the brum/Dudley planned changes when it was running
Also wonder how many have or are going to complain to nx when all the changes are complete
Or are you just going to bally ache on this forum

A bus forum is for discussion and debate about buses and bus routes is it not? It would be a pretty crap forum if everyone agreed on everything and collectively congratulated NX on the outcome of every review. I responded to the South Birmingham review as it directly affected me. Whilst I have offered my thoughts on what I consider daft route number changes which are just change for the sake of change, I personally couldn't give a monkey's about any other aspect of the Dudley review.

Based on the draft dudley proposals the main areas left without a service appear to be Bell End from the withdrawal of the 127 but the amended 241 direct along Oldbury Road. Also the 129 Merry Hill to Blackheath section.

I can only imagine that TfWM could cover this by making amendments to the 24 route. What do we all think?

Quote from: sonic84 on August 05, 2018, 08:16:36 PM
Based on the draft dudley proposals the main areas left without a service appear to be Bell End from the withdrawal of the 127 but the amended 241 direct along Oldbury Road. Also the 129 Merry Hill to Blackheath section.

I can only imagine that TfWM could cover this by making amendments to the 24 route. What do we all think?

I would like to see some timetables on NWM to be honest

Quote from: sonic84 on August 05, 2018, 08:16:36 PM
Based on the draft dudley proposals the main areas left without a service appear to be Bell End from the withdrawal of the 127 but the amended 241 direct along Oldbury Road. Also the 129 Merry Hill to Blackheath section.

I can only imagine that TfWM could cover this by making amendments to the 24 route. What do we all think?

The 14 is going along Bell End.

Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 05, 2018, 08:32:14 PM
I would like to see some timetables on NWM to be honest

Information will be out soon enough.

How do Diamond's tendered services 12 (Blackheath - Cradley Heath), 13 & 14 fit in to all this re-numbering?

Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 05, 2018, 08:01:00 PM
I still have no clue what the difference between the 48 and 48A

It's really not that difficult.

The 48A serves more of Warley & along the Abbey Road and terminates in Bearwood, the 48 route is unchanged to QE then to Northfield

Quote from: Dom on August 05, 2018, 08:46:09 PM
Information will be out soon enough.

What's 'Soon enough' ?

It's less than 4 weeks away! 

Quote from: Sh4318 on August 05, 2018, 10:45:58 AM
Are we really suggesting we can't adjust to a number change?

You obviously can, I can but there will be a lot of people who can't for various reasons. There's a good saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", which I think applies to these services.

Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 05, 2018, 08:01:00 PM
I still have no clue what the difference between the 48 and 48A

The 48 is the full route to Northfield, the 48A follows the 48 to Hurst Road Community Centre, then turns right up Salop Road, left at the top of the road onto the 128 route, then follows that route into Bearwood, turning right onto Bearwood Road at the Bear Tavern and carrying on to the bus station. Would've been a good route for me when I lived in Bearwood to get to school and college.

Quote from: PinkBus on August 06, 2018, 02:31:44 PM
You obviously can, I can but there will be a lot of people who can't for various reasons. There's a good saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", which I think applies to these services.

They were always going to change. It would make no sense to keep the 1xx series of numbers when all of the others (2xx-5xx) have gone... that being said, I may be contradicting myself if the 126 is not going to be renumbered

Quote from: PinkBus on August 06, 2018, 02:39:23 PM
The 48 is the full route to Northfield, the 48A follows the 48 to Hurst Road Community Centre, then turns right up Salop Road, left at the top of the road onto the 128 route, then follows that route into Bearwood, turning right onto Bearwood Road at the Bear Tavern and carrying on to the bus station. Would've been a good route for me when I lived in Bearwood to get to school and college.

It could, and in my opinion, should be put to better use, the Abbey Road doesn't need 8 buses an hour, roads like Norman Road, Thimblemill Road and Alexander Road are roads that the 50A/C served, that the 48A doesn't

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on August 05, 2018, 10:38:23 AM
255 will be the 15
256 will be the 16
257 will be the 17
243 will be the 18
244 will be the 19

Who knows what will happen for Diamonds 2** routes. @Simon Dunn are these numbers changing also?

Not so far as I am aware

Quote from: Sh4318 on August 06, 2018, 03:21:15 PM

It could, and in my opinion, should be put to better use, the Abbey Road doesn't need 8 buses an hour, roads like Norman Road, Thimblemill Road and Alexander Road are roads that the 50A/C served, that the 48A doesn't

Now that I agree with, in fact put single deckers on the 48A, have it turn left at the island at the top of Manor Road, then have it follow the old (and much missed imo) 444 route, Hales Lane, Thimblemill Road, William Road, Harold Road, The Oval and Broadmoor Avenue, giving people like me a link to Bearwood that is more regular than Diamond's 21. It also gives us another link to West Brom other than the 89 and gives people in Warley more links to Bearwood and West Brom, both being popular shopping areas locally. Also it means people in these areas could connect with other buses for Birmingham and Merry Hill.

Quote from: PinkBus on August 06, 2018, 05:40:35 PM

Now that I agree with, in fact put single deckers on the 48A, have it turn left at the island at the top of Manor Road, then have it follow the old (and much missed imo) 444 route, Hales Lane, Thimblemill Road, William Road, Harold Road, The Oval and Broadmoor Avenue, giving people like me a link to Bearwood that is more regular than Diamond's 21. It also gives us another link to West Brom other than the 89 and gives people in Warley more links to Bearwood and West Brom, both being popular shopping areas locally. Also it means people in these areas could connect with other buses for Birmingham and Merry Hill.

The 444 provided a lot of useful links that wouldn't have otherwise been available. For me, it hasn't been adequately replaced, the 445 route was always a very long, convulted route, the extension to West Brom didn't help things.

There's now no direct route to Bearwood from Smethwick, Blue Gates, when it's virtually up the road.

It feels like the West Brom to Londonderry section of the 89 has been shoehorned in to kill several birds with one stone

How long has the 120 been the 120, I know it was originally a Midland red route but seriously I've seen pics of it in various forms from as far back as the 70s, likewise with the 128/9 in there original form.

Where as it will be sad to see these route numbers change sometimes change can be for the better. Let's not lie its going to make oldbury Town look very different especially with a new platinum service passing through. I think people will get it. I remember this debate when west Brom changed its numbers or Wolverhampton and now people don't think anything of it. (even if the 5 is still called the 451 by some locals) it will be interesting to see if the older generation still call these new routes by there old numbers out of habit.

Quote from: danny on August 07, 2018, 08:43:16 AM
...  I remember this debate when west Brom changed its numbers or Wolverhampton and now people don't think anything of it. (even if the 5 is still called the 451 by some locals) it will be interesting to see if the older generation still call these new routes by there old numbers out of habit.

I have to add, lived in Great Barr most of my life and a lot of people don't even use numbers to refer to rito the 451/5, they just say "the Sutton bus"

Quote from: danny on August 07, 2018, 08:43:16 AM
How long has the 120 been the 120,

I don't know for certain, but there is a picture in the "Midland Red" volume 1 of REDD HA 8003 on the 120 taken in August 1938.

Quote from: Tiptonian on August 07, 2018, 01:30:53 PM
I don't know for certain, but there is a picture in the "Midland Red" volume 1 of REDD HA 8003 on the 120 taken in August 1938.

But come on, the 'experts' have identified the need to banish all these three digit numbers as they are too complicated!   Not like they've had this number since the beginning of time or anything is it...

Oh well, I'm sure the West Midlands bus network will be saved once we get that turgid logo and a fleet of dull tone red Buses!  ???

Quote from: Simon Dunn on August 06, 2018, 04:28:55 PM
Not so far as I am aware

I have just seen an internal notice, which shows the Sunday/evening variations we operate changing the route numbers to the above in September so my last comment was incorrect


Simon

Quote from: Straightlines on August 07, 2018, 01:41:08 PM
But come on, the 'experts' have identified the need to banish all these three digit numbers as they are too complicated!   Not like they've had this number since the beginning of time or anything is it...

Oh well, I'm sure the West Midlands bus network will be saved once we get that turgid logo and a fleet of dull tone red Buses!  ???

@Straightlines I would question if these 'experts' regularly travel
on the local bus network...

Quote from: metrocity on August 07, 2018, 03:50:09 PM
@Straightlines I would question if these 'experts' regularly travel
on the local bus network...

Indeed and this unfortunately lies one of the major problems with the industry.

Quote from: Straightlines on August 07, 2018, 04:35:41 PM
Indeed and this unfortunately lies one of the major problems with the industry.

Well, yes they do, and their changes normally end in an increase in passengers despite the comments on the internet, because they actually know what they are doing. One came to NX from Trent where a similar scheme of simple numbers was used, and strangely people on here seem to praise Trent!

Quote from: Tony on August 07, 2018, 05:36:23 PM
Well, yes they do, and their changes normally end in an increase in passengers despite the comments on the internet, because they actually know what they are doing. One came to NX from Trent where a similar scheme of simple numbers was used, and strangely people on here seem to praise Trent!

Trent are successful because they overall offer a good product and manage problems well - If you think changing some service numbers makes National Express anywhere near the quality of Trent Barton then I am genuinely lost for words...

Quote from: Straightlines on August 07, 2018, 05:46:41 PM
Trent are successful because they overall offer a good product and manage problems well - If you think changing some service numbers makes National Express anywhere near the quality of Trent Barton then I am genuinely lost for words...

Haha wait your saying nx aren't the best. Hell no that's not allowed to be said on this forum

Quote from: Straightlines on August 07, 2018, 01:41:08 PM
But come on, the 'experts' have identified the need to banish all these three digit numbers as they are too complicated!   Not like they've had this number since the beginning of time or anything is it...

Quote from: metrocity on August 07, 2018, 03:50:09 PM
@Straightlines I would question if these 'experts' regularly travel
on the local bus network...

It has been stated several times that since the Wolverhampton review, where route numbers started to be simplified, this was actually a request from a lot of passengers at the time, and one thing they wanted was a simpler local network, with easy to remember route numbers.

A lot of people still think all these changes are being done for 'fun' and because people running public transport have got nothing better to do. Before all of these reviews, consultations have taken place, where passengers have had the opportunity to put forward suggestions and make comments on proposals.

The 'experts' have access to lots of data in addition to passenger survey feedback. The quality of recent consultations has been very good in my opinion, gone are the days when passengers were just given a 'blank sheet' to put forward ideas, which meant you ended up with a lot of (in my opinion) useless contributions from 'armchair network planners' who just wanted buses to go somewhere nice, for the rare occasions they would use that service. Or the clown on my Facebook page who used to suggest that every bus from Birmingham should go to Merry Hill, or extend them to Bromsgrove, or Oxford. The last few consultations have started with some draft proposals, drawn up by the 'experts', and then presented to passengers for feedback. If passengers decline the opportunity to take part in these consultation exercises, that's their loss, they'd probably still whine anyway.

I get that some people are unhappy about the changes being made, but sometimes changes do need to be made, as travelling habits change, and certain areas become more popular than others (and vice versa) for work or leisure purposes etc. Its a shame we don't hear so much from the people who are actually happy with the changes (and there are some out there, for instance there's a fella I used to often see on the 37, who would get on in Tyseley, and then change onto a 1 or 31 in Acocks Green, he must be happy with the new 4A service!)

And while I don't mind people voicing their opinion, I have to admit that some of the negativity being expressed here recently, especially towards NX Bus, and TfWM, is getting a bit over the top, and I think that some people are just being egged on by others.

So please just all take a deep breath, calm down a bit, and see what happens.

Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 07, 2018, 06:12:54 PM

Haha wait your saying nx aren't the best. Hell no that's not allowed to be said on this forum

There's nothing wrong with fair criticism of a bus operator, especially if you can back it up with a reasoned argument. That's how debate works.

If you want to start criticising those who volunteer to run this forum in their own spare time, without any reasoned argument, you may find your ability to debate here becomes limited.  ;D

Quote from: Trident 4194 on August 07, 2018, 06:12:54 PM

Haha wait your saying nx aren't the best. Hell no that's not allowed to be said on this forum

Do you actually read what is put, or think what you are posting?

Quote from: Stu on August 07, 2018, 06:52:34 PM
It has been stated several times that since the Wolverhampton review, where route numbers started to be simplified, this was actually a request from a lot of passengers at the time, and one thing they wanted was a simpler local network, with easy to remember route numbers.

In the South Birmingham consultation it said:

All our research shows that the top three things our customers want, in order, are:
1. Frequency (how often buses arrive)
2. Journey time (how long the bus takes to get there)
3. Price (value for money)
Our proposals are in line with local policy and strategy. Transforming Bus Travel proposed a substantial overhaul
of the network guided by:
1. Simplicity (fewer routes and more logical numbers)
2. High frequency routes to key centres
3. Complementary routes with lower frequencies for local and customised travel needs

So clearly not many passengers cared about simplicity? I understand why they are doing it but people's main priorities weren't listened to. Obviously this isn't the Dudley consultation but simplification did take place on that consultation too.

I would be interested to know whether passenger numbers increased due to the simplification of the network, and therefore more changes of buses required.

Eg, Weoley Castle to Five Ways now requires a change of bus but would have been one journey before.

Quote from: sonic84 on August 08, 2018, 05:40:26 PM
I would be interested to know whether passenger numbers increased due to the simplification of the network, and therefore more changes of buses required.

Eg, Weoley Castle to Five Ways now requires a change of bus but would have been one journey before.

Northfield to Five Ways too.
Bartley Green to Selly Oak.
Kitwell to Harborne

Quote from: danny on August 07, 2018, 08:43:16 AM
How long has the 120 been the 120, I know it was originally a Midland red route but seriously I've seen pics of it in various forms from as far back as the 70s, likewise with the 128/9 in there original form.

The 120 has been the 120 since 1928, although in those days the Oldbury - Dudley section was basically via the current 87 route.  Rounds Green was served from 1929, and Oakham from 1953.

The 140 has been the 140 also since 1928.  It ran Birmingham - Dudley - Gornal Wood until 1939.  The Gornal Wood section then became the D40 and lasted with that number into WMPTE days.

I haven't got details of the 128/129 to hand, but I think they originally started in the Warley revisions of 1980.

I only remember the 136/137 that used to run between Birmingham and Gornal Wood

Did a 130 used to go to Kinver from Birmingham or am I mistaken.

Quote from: Brummie45 on August 09, 2018, 04:34:43 AM
I only remember the 136/137 that used to run between Birmingham and Gornal Wood

Did a 130 used to go to Kinver from Birmingham or am I mistaken.

No you are correct, some journeys on the 130 extended from Stourbridge through to Kinver.

what I have found:
2/2A - Dudley to Merry Hill (222)

3 - West Bromwich to Merry Hill (289)
3A - West Bromwich to Blackheath

6 - Dudley to Stourbridge (246)

7 - Dudley to Wollaston (276)

8 - Wrens Nest to Wollaston Farm (X96)

11/11A - Dudley to Walsall (11/13)

12/12A - Birmingham to Dudley (120/120A/121)

13 - Birmingham to Oldbury (128)
13A - Birmingham to Blackheath (127)

14 - Dudley to Halesowen (241)

15/15A - Wolverhampton to Merry Hill (255/255A)

16/16S - Wolverhampton to Stourbridge (256/256S)

17 - Dudley to Stourbridge (257)

18 - Dudley to Merry Hill (243)

19 - Dudley to QE Hospital (244)

31/32 - Walsall to Mossley/Lower Farm (301/302)

126 - Birmingham to Dudley

X7 - Birmingham to Wolverhampton
(Mon-Sat it runs until just before 7pm from Birmingham)

X8 - Birmingham to Wolverhampton (140)


SIDE NOTES:
*42/43 and 43A changes on the 19th and 20th of August
*205 didn't have a bus number change but will run between Dudley and Kingswinford.
Wall Heath gets one in the morning and one in the afternoon.

Quote from: OH25 on August 09, 2018, 11:57:11 AM

SIDE NOTES:
*42/43 and 43A changes on the 19th and 20th of August
*205 didn't have a bus number change but will run between Dudley and Kingswinford.
Wall Heath gets one in the morning and one in the afternoon.

The 205 will become the 5 (as per Diamond's short notice registration below)

PD0001374/414 Registered (Short notice)
DIAMOND BUS LTD
Route: Dudley Bus Station to Merry Hill Bus Station
Service number: 18
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 02 Sep 2018

PD0001374/416 Registered
DIAMOND BUS LTD
Route: Dudley Bus Station to Stourbridge Bus Station via Wall Heath
Service number: 17
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 02 Sep 2018

PD0001374/458 Registered (Short notice)
DIAMOND BUS LTD
Route: Dudley Bus Station to Wall Heath
Service number: 5
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 02 Sep 2018

Quote from: OH25 on August 09, 2018, 11:57:11 AM
what I have found:
12/12A - Birmingham to Dudley (120/121)

I thought they were replacing the 120/120A

Quote from: MasterPlan on August 09, 2018, 01:58:06 PM
I thought they were replacing the 120/120A

12A through to Dudley from Oldbury as per 121
120A Oldbury to Blackheath becomes the 3A through from West Brom, tidies up the corridor with 3/3A/4/4A/4H, personally seems like a far more sensible solution to the forever changing service round the Lion Farm area

 Oh look all ready to go

13B looks like 138

Quote from: OH25 on August 09, 2018, 11:57:11 AM
what I have found:
2/2A - Dudley to Merry Hill (222)

3 - West Bromwich to Merry Hill (289)
3A - West Bromwich to Blackheath

6 - Dudley to Stourbridge (246)

7 - Dudley to Wollaston (276)

8 - Wrens Nest to Wollaston Farm (X96)

11/11A - Dudley to Walsall (11/13)

12/12A - Birmingham to Dudley (120/120A/121)

13 - Birmingham to Oldbury (128)
13A - Birmingham to Blackheath (127)

14 - Dudley to Halesowen (241)

15/15A - Wolverhampton to Merry Hill (255/255A)

16/16S - Wolverhampton to Stourbridge (256/256S)

17 - Dudley to Stourbridge (257)

18 - Dudley to Merry Hill (243)

19 - Dudley to QE Hospital (244)

31/32 - Walsall to Mossley/Lower Farm (301/302)

126 - Birmingham to Dudley

X7 - Birmingham to Wolverhampton
(Mon-Sat it runs until just before 7pm from Birmingham)

X8 - Birmingham to Wolverhampton (140)


SIDE NOTES:
*42/43 and 43A changes on the 19th and 20th of August
*205 didn't have a bus number change but will run between Dudley and Kingswinford.
Wall Heath gets one in the morning and one in the afternoon.

Is the 82 changing numbers?

Quote from: BN on August 09, 2018, 03:31:24 PM
Is the 82 changing numbers?

No. Not as far as I'm aware. The timetable for the 82 and is pretty much the same.

Quote from: 2900 on August 09, 2018, 03:27:44 PM
Oh look all ready to go

Wouldn't be the first time 4760 has worked a number 12 service either!

Quote from: 2900 on August 09, 2018, 03:27:44 PM
Oh look all ready to go

Why have they not had their displays tampered with?

Quote from: Justin Tyme on August 08, 2018, 09:59:18 PM
The 120 has been the 120 since 1928, although in those days the Oldbury - Dudley section was basically via the current 87 route.  Rounds Green was served from 1929, and Oakham from 1953.

The 140 has been the 140 also since 1928.  It ran Birmingham - Dudley - Gornal Wood until 1939.  The Gornal Wood section then became the D40 and lasted with that number into WMPTE days.

I haven't got details of the 128/129 to hand, but I think they originally started in the Warley revisions of 1980.

The 128/9 began September 1980 replacing the 229/233 routes that ran previously.

I know this because they were my buses to school from Bearwood,  I lived round the corner from the route and they changed to the 128/9 as I began my 4th year at secondary school. The 220/1 became the 448 and 450 at the same time.

Quote from: MasterPlan on August 09, 2018, 04:35:25 PM
Why have they not had their displays tampered with?

Which displays are you referring to? The destination blinds  or are you on about the generic branding

Quote from: 2900 on August 09, 2018, 06:28:58 PM
Which displays are you referring to? The destination blinds  or are you on about the generic branding

The destination blinds. They've not been changed to the static ones now used by BC, AG and YW.

Timetables for most of the renumbered services on the NWM website

The 5 (205) is not on the site
The 126 says it is ran by WN
The 13B is not on the site

Quote from: OH25 on August 09, 2018, 11:57:11 AM
what I have found:
2/2A - Dudley to Merry Hill (222)

3 - West Bromwich to Merry Hill (289)
3A - West Bromwich to Blackheath

6 - Dudley to Stourbridge (246)

7 - Dudley to Wollaston (276)

8 - Wrens Nest to Wollaston Farm (X96)

11/11A - Dudley to Walsall (11/13)

12/12A - Birmingham to Dudley (120/120A/121)

13 - Birmingham to Oldbury (128)
13A - Birmingham to Blackheath (127)

14 - Dudley to Halesowen (241)

15/15A - Wolverhampton to Merry Hill (255/255A)

16/16S - Wolverhampton to Stourbridge (256/256S)

17 - Dudley to Stourbridge (257)

18 - Dudley to Merry Hill (243)

19 - Dudley to QE Hospital (244)

31/32 - Walsall to Mossley/Lower Farm (301/302)

126 - Birmingham to Dudley

X7 - Birmingham to Wolverhampton
(Mon-Sat it runs until just before 7pm from Birmingham)

X8 - Birmingham to Wolverhampton (140)


SIDE NOTES:
*42/43 and 43A changes on the 19th and 20th of August
*205 didn't have a bus number change but will run between Dudley and Kingswinford.
Wall Heath gets one in the morning and one in the afternoon.

i could have told you all that 😂

Although I was initially excited by the changes taking place, I've been completely underwhelmed by the timetables.

The 126 being every 15 minutes just seems strange to me, although it'll be worth it if the service is reliable.

The X7 and X8 timetables are really disappointing. No Sunday service for the X7 is something I didn't see coming. The X8 Sunday service doesn't make any sense to me, only 1 bus an hour does the full route, 1 bus an hour is between Wolverhampton and Quinton, and the other is Wolverhampton to Dudley (could have been a good opportunity to provide more buses between Birmingham & Quinton on Sundays, with the 9 & X10).

I can't see how the 13B fits in with the 13/A, which run at an every 10 minute frequency.

Surprised an evening and Sunday service wasn't trialled on the 12A, the 12(120) frequency between Birmingham and Oldbury is back to every half an hour on Sundays.

That's my 2 cents anyway, was initially really excited, now, overwhelmingly underwhelmed

Could the 126 can't be changed to 86, then you have the 86/87 from Dudley to Birmingham.

Or change it to 88 (same reason as above) plus with the new X7 and X8 it would look neat having the 87/88/X7/X8.

Quote from: OH25 on August 10, 2018, 11:38:21 AM
Could the 126 can't be changed to 86, then you have the 86/87 from Dudley to Birmingham.

Or change it to 88 (same reason as above) plus with the new X7 and X8 it would look neat having the 87/88/X7/X8.

I think they've really shot themselves in the foot here, all the reasonable options for a renumbering to fit in with the services around are taken
That said the 255/256/257 suddenly becoming 15/16/17 already makes two 17s in fairly close proximity so I don't really see why 15 couldn't work for the 126

Quote from: Kevin on August 10, 2018, 12:02:29 PM
I think they've really shot themselves in the foot here, all the reasonable options for a renumbering to fit in with the services around are taken
That said the 255/256/257 suddenly becoming 15/16/17 already makes two 17s in fairly close proximity so I don't really see why 15 couldn't work for the 126

Could also say the WA 4/6/10 are close to the WN 4/5/10 but realistically they have never caused confusion... the diamond 17 runs once an hour in the opposite direction to nx 17.

The re numbering is happen whether we like it or not.

@OH25 the X7 is ok the way it's going to be evenings and Sunday are unnecessary as it's covered by the X8 between wolves and Dudley and the 87 Dudley to Birmingham, it's roughly going to the same frequency going to Birmingham from Dudley just the X8 (140 is hourly during the evening) and the wolves bit does go down to every 30 mins after 7ish as the 126 does now

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on August 10, 2018, 12:39:07 PM
Could also say the WA 4/6/10 are close to the WN 4/5/10 but realistically they have never caused confusion... the diamond 17 runs once an hour in the opposite direction to nx 17.

The re numbering is happen whether we like it or not.

I know they go the opposite way, but so would the Merry Hill 15 and the 126, so by the same logic of duplicate 17s I don't see any reason the 126 couldn't become 15 as well

Quote from: Kevin on August 10, 2018, 01:53:25 PM
I know they go the opposite way, but so would the Merry Hill 15 and the 126, so by the same logic of duplicate 17s I don't see any reason the 126 couldn't become 15 as well

Could of been a request of TfWM to keep it as the 126

I don't usually have any strong opinions on route number changes, but I think not renumbering the 126 is a mistake, the new 126 is so much different. It is no longer going to Wolverhampton and will not be the quickest route to Dudley. I think this will cause a lot of confusion to the general public.

The new timetables are available online now. Here's the X7 and X8

https://bustimes.org/services/x7-birmingham-wolverhampton-via-oldbury-dudley

https://bustimes.org/services/x8-birmingham-wolverhampton-via-blackheath-dudley

Quote from: Brummie45 on August 10, 2018, 07:40:59 PM
The new timetables are available online now. Here's the X7 and X8

https://bustimes.org/services/x7-birmingham-wolverhampton-via-oldbury-dudley

https://bustimes.org/services/x8-birmingham-wolverhampton-via-blackheath-dudley

Why do the timetables say until December 31st?

I think it's just a default mode on the website. All the timetables say the same.

The Sandwell and Dudley bus services change guide book  available now.

From looking at the running boards the evening times 12E from brum to Oldbury will be arriving at 39 and leaving Oldbury as the 13 to brum at 42
13 from brum to Oldbury will be arriving at 27 or 28 and leaving as a 12 to city at 31

Very generous drop backs I must say thank you very much dear management, Friday and Saturday nites looks like I,ll be claiming the over time

Quote from: MasterPlan on August 10, 2018, 07:49:16 PM
Why do the timetables say until December 31st?

the birmingham ones might have something to do with broad st been closed in part & been
diverted

Quote from: 2900 on August 11, 2018, 11:07:45 AM
The Sandwell and Dudley bus services change guide book  available now.

On the internet or at West Brom travel shop?

Pensnett blinds been reprogrammed to show you what the new number is going to be read the bottom scrolling blind

New timetable for Diamonds 24 up on NWM website showing it will cover the withdrawn 129 service between Merry Hill and Waterfall Lane.

Quote from: 2900 on August 11, 2018, 11:07:45 AM
The Sandwell and Dudley bus services change guide book  available now.

Not in West Bromwich travel shop this afternoon it's not, and I'm darned if I can see it anywhere online.
Any further clues, please, 2900?

Dudley travel shop had some bus changes books

Quote from: Smethwickian on August 11, 2018, 04:48:11 PM
Not in West Bromwich travel shop this afternoon it's not, and I'm darned if I can see it anywhere online.
Any further clues, please, 2900?

Walsall has them

Quote from: John on August 11, 2018, 05:07:01 PM
Walsall has them

I had a few from Walsall for work at Great Bridge!

Must be a first for some years.

Physical info in the Travel Shop before it appears online.

No change to the timetable of the Walsall to Dudley service though, just a number change!

does this mean both pensnett and west bromwich will be operating 13

WB are operating the 3/3A and will probably operate the 13/13A and are loosing the 12A to Pensnett is what I can make from notices at WB garage.

Quote from: WB Driver on August 11, 2018, 09:26:05 PM
WB are operating the 3/3A and will probably operate the 13/13A and are loosing the 12A to Pensnett is what I can make from notices at WB garage.

Will be interesting to see what allocations the 3/A will get, would love an alx 400 b7tl to visit merry hell. Would this be the first time WB has operated a service in merry hill?

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on August 11, 2018, 09:55:04 PM
Will be interesting to see what allocations the 3/A will get, would love an alx 400 b7tl to visit merry hell. Would this be the first time WB has operated a service in merry hill?

No. The 238 was West Brom operated before Pensnett

https://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/5563210263/

Quote from: Smethwickian on August 11, 2018, 04:48:11 PM
Not in West Bromwich travel shop this afternoon it's not, and I'm darned if I can see it anywhere online.
Any further clues, please, 2900?

The ones I got were from box placed at Dudley bus station drivers canteen , i think these ones are for drivers, I,ve been giving them to the pensioners who didn't have clue that mass changes were afoot next month.  Not all the older generation do computers, Internet etc , the guide booklets were most appreciated.

Quote from: John on August 11, 2018, 09:56:54 PM
No. The 238 was West Brom operated before Pensnett

https://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/5563210263/

Yeap use to get a varying mix of buses on the 238 , metrobuses, Volvos,  Mercs , westbrom for a very short period had B10B,s on there from wolves, I heard drivers didn't like them so they moved to the The Farm so I,m told.

The consultation will be published some time day according to nx twitter

Interesting reading the changes in more detail now
Online timetables show the 13 and 13A, every 20 each, but the published book suggests a 13B as well, and suggests that all of them combined are every 10 mins with the 13A/B combined to every 20. I can only conclude from that they're reducing the old 127/129 sections to a retarded 40 mins each which is literally the opposite of the "simplification" the changes were meant to achieve

Quote from: Kevin on August 14, 2018, 07:26:20 AM
Interesting reading the changes in more detail now
Online timetables show the 13 and 13A, every 20 each, but the published book suggests a 13B as well, and suggests that all of them combined are every 10 mins with the 13A/B combined to every 20. I can only conclude from that they're reducing the old 127/129 sections to a retarded 40 mins each which is literally the opposite of the "simplification" the changes were meant to achieve

Published book? Where?

Quote from: Dom on August 14, 2018, 09:06:42 AM
Published book? Where?

Dudley travel shop and on our buses from today

Quote from: Dom on August 14, 2018, 09:06:42 AM
Published book? Where?

Picked one up in Stourbridge yesterday, but only because I knew one would be there, they weren't exactly prominent on display

The page https://nxbus.co.uk/dudley has been created and is viewable directly.  It has not been linked to the rest of the NXWM website.  The timetable for services 13A/13B shows 2 buses per hour on 13A and 1 per hour on 13B between about 09:00 and 16:00 Mondays to Saturdays.

Quote from: Kevin on August 14, 2018, 07:26:20 AM
Interesting reading the changes in more detail now
Online timetables show the 13 and 13A, every 20 each, but the published book suggests a 13B as well, and suggests that all of them combined are every 10 mins with the 13A/B combined to every 20. I can only conclude from that they're reducing the old 127/129 sections to a retarded 40 mins each which is literally the opposite of the "simplification" the changes were meant to achieve

Brandhall and Perry Hill get an every 40 minute service to Birmingham... You couldn't make this up if you tried.

Is there any reason why the 13(128) needs to be every 20 minutes? The majority of the route is covered by other services

Quote from: Dom on August 14, 2018, 09:06:42 AM
Published book? Where?

It's being handed out by staff members across the network as well.

Cant believe no one wanted changes to the Walsall to Dudley corridor?

That reliability needs looking at!

Quote from: Westy on August 14, 2018, 06:42:18 PM
Cant believe no one wanted changes to the Walsall to Dudley corridor?

That reliability needs looking at!

must be only you moaning

Quote from: Westy on August 14, 2018, 06:42:18 PM
Cant believe no one wanted changes to the Walsall to Dudley corridor?

That reliability needs looking at!

Well you have got changes of sorts. Because the number 13 was required by three other routes, you've now got a far simpler 11A instead.

Sorry, couldn't resist  ;)

On the changes booklet, the X7 and X8 are shown in a greenish and pinkish colour respectively. Shouldn't that be the other way round, pink for the X7 to fit in with other Dudley Road services, and green for the X8 to fit in with Hagley Road services 9, X10, 126?

The service changes and new timetables are now up on the main NX website. As someone previously posted, the 13A and 13B timetables are strange, with the 13A at 30 and 50 mins past the hour, and the 13B at 10 mins past the hour from Birmingham. So for some passengers, an alternating 20 or 40 min frequency.

As I said before, I really like the changes, especially the 12/12A & X7. But the frequencies are a massive let down

The booklets and online pages for these changes would have been a good opportunity to advise Birmingham-bound passengers of new routes in and out of the city centre for the Hagley Road and Dudley Road services because of the nine-month closure of Paradise Circus from September - hardly a short-term blip. But as yet, no warnings anywhere.
What's the betting that when printed timetable leaflets (eventually) appear, they contain the pre-closure route and are therefore inaccurate before they even come into force?

I wonder if these will be any more popular than the South Birmingham review...

Strange how 42/43 are not mentioned on leaflet been a improved service and that passes can be accepted on Diamond.   

Will the 126 still be platinum buses like now after2 sept

Quote from: Solo1 on August 15, 2018, 08:55:33 AM
Will the 126 still be platinum buses like now after2 sept

As has already been said. No.

It's nice to see where passenger feedback has been listened to and acted on. I read a few complaints about no bus serving Mincing Lane and Bell End in Rowley Regis, so its good news for those passengers as the new 14 service will serve that road now.

Likewise with the addition of the 2A service, as passengers wanted Wallows Road covered, and the 13B, although that looks like a daytime only service now.

Quote from: Stu on August 15, 2018, 12:24:01 PM
It's nice to see where passenger feedback has been listened to and acted on. I read a few complaints about no bus serving Mincing Lane and Bell End in Rowley Regis, so its good news for those passengers as the new 14 service will serve that road now.

Likewise with the addition of the 2A service, as passengers wanted Wallows Road covered, and the 13B, although that looks like a daytime only service now.

Off peak only by the sounds of things. I honestly thought the 129 would have been withdrawn completely, with tendered services tweaked to cover several stops. Interested to see how long it lasts, if it does last, even though I think the 20/40 minute frequency is ridiculous

To be honest I think the 123 should be reinstated. Every service introduced to cover the gap left by its withdrawal seems to have failed!

Quote from: sonic84 on August 15, 2018, 07:18:52 PM
To be honest I think the 123 should be reinstated. Every service introduced to cover the gap left by its withdrawal seems to have failed!

Or rather, the 12B...

Quote from: sonic84 on August 15, 2018, 07:18:52 PM
To be honest I think the 123 should be reinstated. Every service introduced to cover the gap left by its withdrawal seems to have failed!

On the other hand surely if Diamonds 123 was successful it would still be operating today?
Does anyone know what usage was like on the service?
All I remember is seeing empty 37 (Birmingham to Solihull via Acocks Green) Branded Darts on the 123 in the Witton and Aston area with a 90/100 minute end to end journey time, so I doubt there'd have been many wantng to do it end to end.
I don't remember ever seeing more than a few passengers on it in the Witton and Aston area.

Though it did have some form of competition at some point - Hi Rides 40X.

Quote from: sonic84 on August 15, 2018, 07:18:52 PM
To be honest I think the 123 should be reinstated. Every service introduced to cover the gap left by its withdrawal seems to have failed!

I share your opinion regarding the 444 (I'll never get over the withdrawal of that route). Although the 53 was essentially the 123 between the Barleycorn and Merry Hill - minus serving Queens Head, something that the 123 didn't do, which really annoyed me.

In regards to the Barleycorn - Perry Barr section of the route... does it's replacement 61 even run anymore?

* I should probably mention that by using 'The Barleycorn', I'm referring to the bottom of the Bearwood Road, near Windmill Lane, Cape Hill

Quote from: MasterPlan on August 15, 2018, 07:19:35 PM
Or rather, the 12B...

You seem determined to ride this joke until the wheels fall off ::)

Quote from: Sh4318 on August 15, 2018, 07:41:15 PM
I share your opinion regarding the 444 (I'll never get over the withdrawal of that route). Although the 53 was essentially the 123 between the Barleycorn and Merry Hill - minus serving Queens Head, something that the 123 didn't do, which really annoyed me.

In regards to the Barleycorn - Perry Barr section of the route... does it's replacement 61 even run anymore?

You seem determined to ride this joke until the wheels fall off ::)

Regarding the 61:
Booth Street to Bearwood no longer operates, it was withdrawn at some point last year.
Perry Barr to Booth Street via Handsworth Park still operates -  though thats not the route the 123 took as the 123 went via Witton and Aston.
As far as I know the only it of it that remains is the Aston Six Ways to Perry Barr Section as the Perry Barr Circular (68A/C).

Quote from: 2206 on August 15, 2018, 07:32:57 PM
On the other hand surely if Diamonds 123 was successful it would still be operating today?
Does anyone know what usage was like on the service?

And that is why network reviews take place. Travelling habits change, places that people want/need to travel to change. Circumstances and situations such as congestion cause services (especially long convoluted routes like the 123) to become unreliable. When services become unreliable, people change their journeys, and as passenger numbers fall, those services become less viable.

You're right, if the 123 was a successful viable service it would indeed still be operating. Same goes for other changes that have taken place. Yes, it is true that no-one in their right mind would really regularly travel from Perry Barr to Merry Hill using the 123, it was one of those routes that was all about connecting the 'bits inbetween'. If those 'bits inbetween' can be better served by breaking up the route or modifying other services to fit, then go for it, rather than just hoping things will turn around naturally.

Sometimes change is inevitable; one can either embrace and adapt to the changes, or sit in a corner sulking about the past.

As a businessman, I can tell you, if your business is failing, if you don't make changes and adapt, your business will definitely fail. The same analogy works here: some people would like the bus network to go back to how it was in 1986; it was great then, but wouldn't be fit for purpose here in the 21st century.

Are these changes always to meet changing passenger demands. We have seen in the last year's an increase in the simplification of core main routes and an increase in the need to change buses, particularly away from the city centre.

Whilst cutting routes like the 123 and 444 seems easy as they can be covered by other services, it makes those other routes seem less attractive as tendered services become more convoluted to cover the gaps.  Look at routes such as Diamonds 54 and IGOs 19 for examples of complicated routes! 

I expect changes to the 241 will drive more bus users onto the 244 between Halesowen and Dudley. Will the fall in end to end passengers on the new 14 cover the lighter loadings between Blackheath and Dudley?

The 21 Birmingham to Bartley Green is another example or a route withdrawn to meet changing demand of passengers yet the X64 was altered so much it basically became the 21!

Just an idea for the new 5, would it be viable to extend it to Stourbridge (merge it with 267) or Wolverhampton to boost passenger numbers (people traveling to the trading estate for work), it's the fastest route between Kingswinford and Dudley

Quote from: sonic84 on August 15, 2018, 08:40:01 PM
The 21 Birmingham to Bartley Green is another example or a route withdrawn to meet changing demand of passengers yet the X64 was altered so much it basically became the 21!

You beat me to it on the X64. I don't disagree with the majority of what Stu says but the X64 is a prime example of where these reviews don't get things right and the constant tinkering every few months thereafter creates a situation where the passengers who were supposed to benefit have no idea whether they are coming or going. That route wasn't around for that many years but during that time, these are some of the iterations of it (off the top of my head and not necessarily in order):
Via Bristol Rd to Great Park
City terminus changed to Colmore Row
City terminus changed to Square Peg
Amended to go to Bartley Green
Diverted to serve QE Hospital and Gibbins Road
Changed to serve Selly Oak
City terminus changed to Priory Queensway
Extended to Woodgate via Kitwell
Changed to no longer serve Kitwell
Diverted to serve University / The Vale (removing the limited stop element)

How are people supposed to embrace this constant change? It's a mess and is not conducive to encouraging passenger growth. There are lots of other examples of changes from reviews being changed or indeed reversed a short time later but the X64 is an extreme example. NX is a commercial operation and is there primarily to maintain its profit margin - I totally get that, but I can't help but think they've made a pig's ear of some of these incessant changes.

Surely the infamous X64 was perhaps the biggest failure by NX in recent years. Yes the 21 suffered with reliability issues and I can understand why they felt change was needed but as the 21 was popular it should've been done with maintaining the links already being used. However, as has been said they made a pigs ear of it. You could actually say that this current X21 is probably what should've replaced the 21, including Bartley Green of course.

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on August 15, 2018, 08:58:40 PM
Just an idea for the new 5, would it be viable to extend it to Stourbridge (merge it with 267) or Wolverhampton to boost passenger numbers (people traveling to the trading estate for work), it's the fastest route between Kingswinford and Dudley

Actually quite surprised myself that they didn't do anything with the 255/6/7 beyond the renumbering, defite scope for simplicity there and would save some numbers for elsewhere

Quote from: sonic84 on August 15, 2018, 08:40:01 PM
Are these changes always to meet changing passenger demands. We have seen in the last year's an increase in the simplification of core main routes and an increase in the need to change buses, particularly away from the city centre.

Whilst cutting routes like the 123 and 444 seems easy as they can be covered by other services, it makes those other routes seem less attractive as tendered services become more convoluted to cover the gaps.  Look at routes such as Diamonds 54 and IGOs 19 for examples of complicated routes! 

I expect changes to the 241 will drive more bus users onto the 244 between Halesowen and Dudley. Will the fall in end to end passengers on the new 14 cover the lighter loadings between Blackheath and Dudley?

The 21 Birmingham to Bartley Green is another example or a route withdrawn to meet changing demand of passengers yet the X64 was altered so much it basically became the 21!

Completely agree with that.

Whilst Devonshire Road, Stoney Lane have benefitted with more and newer buses. The Oval & Thimblemill Road have suffered with the convoluted 54 which takes you through Cape Hill and Smethwick before you even get to Spon Croft.

The constant changes with the 48A, 50, 53 & 129 have left some roads with a service/less of a service

Quote from: Kevin on August 15, 2018, 09:58:34 PM
Actually quite surprised myself that they didn't do anything with the 255/6/7 beyond the renumbering, defite scope for simplicity there and would save some numbers for elsewhere

As a regular user of the 255/6/7, I can say that the present routes work really well to provide 15 minute interval journeys on the busier sections of the routes and 30 minute intervals on the others.  Simplifying the services would only force more people to have to change buses in Kingswinford or Wall Heath and I am sure that would go down well with local travellers.  However, I'm sure that, if NXWM management decide to change these routes in the future, they will do so for a valid reason because I feel that to "save some numbers for elsewhere" will never go down in the annals of history as a valid reason for changing a perfectly good bus service.

Quote from: Roy on August 16, 2018, 09:07:03 AM
As a regular user of the 255/6/7, I can say that the present routes work really well to provide 15 minute interval journeys on the busier sections of the routes and 30 minute intervals on the others.  Simplifying the services would only force more people to have to change buses in Kingswinford or Wall Heath and I am sure that would go down well with local travellers.  However, I'm sure that, if NXWM management decide to change these routes in the future, they will do so for a valid reason because I feel that to "save some numbers for elsewhere" will never go down in the annals of history as a valid reason for changing a perfectly good bus service.

Well obviously my post wasn't just saying to combine the routes just to save the numbers, more that there's scope for simplifying them. Take the 255, there's an obvious need for every 15 mins to Kingswinford and Wall Heath, the fact that it picks up other people along the way can easily be absorbed into a more frequent 256 that they can change onto. This is the whole point of such network reviews, to have a network of core higher frequency routes that people can change onto

If you do look back to PTE days and before I would contest that perhaps Merry Hill and Russells Hall excepted, traffic objectives in the Dudley area haven't really changed that much from when Midland Red, Wolverhampton and West Bromwich ran the routes.

Totally agree however that the 'reviews' are more to suit operator objectives rather than the needs of the passengers.

As an example many years ago there was a big review of Perry Barr services made mostly on the back of a manager wanting to make a name for himself. In less than eighteen months everything was more or less back to the tried and tested network.

There could be an element of these changes in all the meddling but at the end of the day large parts of the bus network are probably approaching terminal decline so anything that keeps the level of service/resource/revenue balance at a commercially achievable level has to be given a go!

Quote from: Kevin on August 16, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
Well obviously my post wasn't just saying to combine the routes just to save the numbers, more that there's scope for simplifying them. Take the 255, there's an obvious need for every 15 mins to Kingswinford and Wall Heath, the fact that it picks up other people along the way can easily be absorbed into a more frequent 256 that they can change onto. This is the whole point of such network reviews, to have a network of core higher frequency routes that people can change onto

If your plan went ahead, Planks Lane, Brickbridge Lane and Swindon would lose their bus services.  In addition, especially during rush hours, a lot of people travel between Wolverhampton and Bromley, Pensnett, Brierley Hill and Merry Hill.  I'm sure they would be thrilled if they had to change in Kingswinford.  In fact, I caught an early afternoon bus from Wolverhampton last week and, between Bull Meadow Drive and Swindon, over 20 teenagers in small groups got on to go to Merry Hill.  This happens every Saturday and most weekdays during school holidays.  I'm sure the ones who got on between Bull Meadow Drive and Wombourne would be thrilled if they had to change bus every time they wanted to go to the largest shopping centre in the Black Country, while those who boarded between Wombourne and Swindon would have a long walk to a bus in the first place (for the Swindon passengers, along a dangerous narrow lane) and then be expected to change again.

Luckily, NXWM management recognise this and have not changed the routes.  The point of network reviews are meant to improve bus travel for passengers, not make it impossible for passengers to use the bus because of some ideology.  The 255/6/7 are not broken, therefore they don't need fixing.

It will be interesting to hear what other forum members in the Kingswinford and Stourbridge areas think.

I use the 255/E quite frequently and it does get busy between merry hill and kford, my only problem is it does not start early enough! A 0530 from kford to merry hill but be awesome :)

New style "West Midlands Bus" flags have been put up at Kingswinford Cross and Kingswinford High Street.

Quote from: Roy on August 17, 2018, 06:06:22 PM
New style "West Midlands Bus" flags have been put up at Kingswinford Cross and Kingswinford High Street.

and high oak area

To be honest the routes could've been renumbered to 85, 86 & 88. The 127 becoming the 85 (The others A and B), the 120 becoming the 86 (121 86A) and the 126 88.
That way you have the 85, 86, 87 & 88 that go to Dudley.

Quote from: MasterPlan on August 18, 2018, 07:53:32 AM
To be honest the routes could've been renumbered to 85, 86 & 88. The 127 becoming the 85 (The others A and B), the 120 becoming the 86 (121 86A) and the 126 88.
That way you have the 85, 86, 87 & 88 that go to Dudley.

Why would they do that? That is just more confusion and a bigger change!! The 12 is just one number off the 120 and makes perfect sense. The 12A does make sense as it is just slightly different to the 12.

Quote from: Dom on August 18, 2018, 08:47:38 AM
Why would they do that? That is just more confusion and a bigger change!! The 12 is just one number off the 120 and makes perfect sense. The 12A does make sense as it is just slightly different to the 12.

Confusion is confusion regardless. Passengers can only handle 1 number off of the original? Making it 85-88 makes more sense. Cramping everything into low numbers does not.

On a different note. I picked up some timetable leaflets yesterday from New Street Station for the X7,X8 and 13,13A,13B services.

Nice to see them available already.

Also picked up booklet listing changes.

Just been looking at the timetable for the new 12 service - that's the only one I'm really interested in as I use the 120/120A to get to my parents' house when I go visit on a Sunday - and its a bit of a shame that the new 12 reverts back to a half-hourly daytime frequency on Sunday; the current 20min frequency has been very useful, but then again, I probably only use the service once or twice a month on a Sunday anyway.

But its reassuring at least that the half-hour frequency is maintained into the evening Sunday service, with alternate journeys running between Birmingham and Oldbury only. Gosh, I can remember almost clearly the horror of just missing a 120 on a Sunday and having to wait a whole hour for the next one!  :D

Now I'm living in Billesley, I'll only be using the 12/120 between Londonderry and Bearwood anyway, doing the rest of the journey on the 11A/C. So I have almost zero need to travel into Birmingham city centre, great!  8)

Quote from: Stu on August 18, 2018, 05:50:49 PM
Just been looking at the timetable for the new 12 service - that's the only one I'm really interested in as I use the 120/120A to get to my parents' house when I go visit on a Sunday - and its a bit of a shame that the new 12 reverts back to a half-hourly daytime frequency on Sunday; the current 20min frequency has been very useful, but then again, I probably only use the service once or twice a month on a Sunday anyway.

But its reassuring at least that the half-hour frequency is maintained into the evening Sunday service, with alternate journeys running between Birmingham and Oldbury only. Gosh, I can remember almost clearly the horror of just missing a 120 on a Sunday and having to wait a whole hour for the next one!  :D

Now I'm living in Billesley, I'll only be using the 12/120 between Londonderry and Bearwood anyway, doing the rest of the journey on the 11A/C. So I have almost zero need to travel into Birmingham city centre, great!  8)

Does that mean you only need to use that outer Brum only daysaver then?

Quote from: Westy on August 18, 2018, 06:12:34 PM


Does that mean you only need to use that outer Brum only daysaver then?

No, as I have a monthly direct debit NX Faresaver pass already.  ;D

Quote from: MasterPlan on August 18, 2018, 01:33:21 PM
Confusion is confusion regardless. Passengers can only handle 1 number off of the original? Making it 85-88 makes more sense. Cramping everything into low numbers does not.

What? Why would you do that?

The 8* series routes are numbered that way because they serve the Dudley Road

I notice they've changed some of the flags between Coronation Gardens and Portway Road on the 126 route now, X7 is now on the flags (With new West Midlands Bus Flags).

Some of the PN buses and WB Omnilinks have a yellow vinyl stating "Some timetable changes from 2nd Septemer 2018" by the doors.

Re: 126 & the X7/X8

Just seen the booklet in its pdf form, and have noticed that the X7 will depart Colmore Row from stand SH3, with X8 departing from SH2. Surely it'd make sense, at least it does to me, for them to switch - and have the X7 leave from SH2, and the X8 from SH3? Would these decisions have something to do with the expected loadings?

I get that, with three stops on the road, it would make sense to space them out; if it were up to me, I'd have them all depart from SH1 (or SH3, now with the loss of the 140), contrary to what I've previously expressed. At least, then, they'll all be centralised to one stop. I dunno, I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here.   :-[

Quote from: CL on August 25, 2018, 10:48:57 PM
Re: 126 & the X7/X8

Just seen the booklet in its pdf form, and have noticed that the X7 will depart Colmore Row from stand SH3, with X8 departing from SH2. Surely it'd make sense, at least it does to me, for them to switch - and have the X7 leave from SH2, and the X8 from SH3? Would these decisions have something to do with the expected loadings?

I get that, with three stops on the road, it would make sense to space them out; if it were up to me, I'd have them all depart from SH1 (or SH3, now with the loss of the 140), contrary to what I've previously expressed. At least, then, they'll all be centralised to one stop. I dunno, I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here.   :-[

all Hagley road services going from sh2 in September

Quote from: karl724223 on August 26, 2018, 01:30:55 AM
all Hagley road services going from sh2 in September

Ah, ok! Cheers.  :-X

Will the current peak wb working of the 140 from next week be a peak working on the 126 from West Brom garage instead ??

Quote from: Jack6101 on August 28, 2018, 07:44:20 PM
Will the current peak wb working of the 140 from next week be a peak working on the 126 from West Brom garage instead ??

X8

Gotta say I am really let down with the X7,X8.

- No branding
- No Announcements
- No updated flags (Not NXs fault, I know)
- No real advertisement that it is a limited stop service

God help any drivers on the X7 tomorrow because they're going to get it in the neck as the stops it actually is stopping at have hardly been publicised.

Quote from: Dom on September 02, 2018, 11:12:53 PM
Gotta say I am really let down with the X7,X8.

- No branding
- No Announcements
-No updated flags (Not NXs fault, I know)
- No real advertisement that it is a limited stop service

Well perhaps now you may understand first hand why tfwm draw so much criticizism on this issue across the board... When brand new services like this launch it is essential the correct information is available to the public from the off, especially when NX are paying for it! Yes it is only one point of many on that list but the bus stops are the first point where passengers travelling have any service information presented in front of them, with major reviews like this ensuring it is all correct, before the changes, should be a priority. The hassle and time it took for them to correct the flags on the 5 route is beyond a joke. As you say it is the driver's who then suffer as a result.

Quote from: Dom on September 02, 2018, 11:12:53 PM
Gotta say I am really let down with the X7,X8.

- No branding
- No Announcements
- No updated flags (Not NXs fault, I know)
- No real advertisement that it is a limited stop service

God help any drivers on the X7 tomorrow because they're going to get it in the neck as the stops it actually is stopping at have hardly been publicised.

Give it a chance, it's only been one day...

And it's been months now since the 52/A went and there's still a stop on Birchfield Road with the 52 and 52A on the flag! Wonder how long it will be be there for.

The 9 now every 10 minutes, well that's a bit crap really isn't it especially when the 140 no longer operates and the x8 cuts out bus stops. Look forward to rammed 9s now.

Quote from: Jack on September 03, 2018, 08:45:27 AM
And it's been months now since the 52/A went and there's still a stop on Birchfield Road with the 52 and 52A on the flag! Wonder how long it will be be there for.

Until some responsible person notes the flag number and reports it on the Network West Midlands web site instead of whingeing on here.

Quote from: MasterPlan on September 03, 2018, 06:48:10 AM
Give it a chance, it's only been one day...

3/4 should be ready by the time the service launches. No excuses for 3 of them really.

Quote from: Roy on September 03, 2018, 12:09:14 PM
Until some responsible person notes the flag number and reports it on the Network West Midlands web site instead of whingeing on here.

Exactly. I've sent my list to the inhouse team this morning.

@Jack if you send me the information of the stops, I'll send an email to get them to look into getting them sorted.

Quote from: Dom on September 03, 2018, 12:17:04 PM
Exactly. I've sent my list to the inhouse team this morning.

@Jack if you send me the information of the stops, I'll send an email to get them to look into getting them sorted.

Ok, thanks @Dom!

Quote from: Dom on September 02, 2018, 11:12:53 PM
Gotta say I am really let down with the X7,X8.

- No branding
- No Announcements
- No updated flags (Not NXs fault, I know)
- No real advertisement that it is a limited stop service

God help any drivers on the X7 tomorrow because they're going to get it in the neck as the stops it actually is stopping at have hardly been publicised.

Same old crap from a complacent NXWM and a TfWM who is pretty powerless to have any meaningful impact on the Bus Services within this region.

Is it any wonder bus patronage here is on the decline?

Quote from: Dom on September 03, 2018, 12:14:42 PM
3/4 should be ready by the time the service launches. No excuses for 3 of them really.

Its is often been the same with every service change/introduction of new vehicles, eg - there were no X12 branded vehicles and X12 next stop anoncements when it first when it was initially launched (the vehicles were branded and next stop anouncements introduced) a short while later.
The Hybrids on the 22/23 never had any next stop anouncements updated for the City Loop.
The X20/X21/X22 branded buses weren't branded on the launch day either.

Quote from: Dom on September 02, 2018, 11:12:53 PM

- No updated flags (Not NXs fault, I know)

Some of the flags have been updated, some in the Dudley area have (Corronation Gardens and some south of Dudley on the Wolverhampton Road) and Francis Road, Hagley Road (Five Ways).

Quote from: Straightlines on September 03, 2018, 03:57:17 PM

Is it any wonder bus patronage here is on the decline?

Apart from the fact NXWM patronage is rising this year

Quote from: Tony on September 03, 2018, 04:15:26 PM
Apart from the fact NXWM patronage is rising this year

Maybe because so many links have been lost causing multiple journeys now to be made?   ???

Quote from: Dom on September 03, 2018, 12:17:04 PM
Exactly. I've sent my list to the inhouse team this morning.

@Jack if you send me the information of the stops, I'll send an email to get them to look into getting them sorted.

When will one of your team's try and sort out the Diamond tracking issues? Simon Dunn has stated before, many months ago, the ball is in tfwm's court and considering they are determined to push out the polished turd that is West Midlands Bus, it might be an idea to actually have reliable live data available for people on every trip rather than every other? I am genuinely surprised this wasn't nipped in the bud before the launch of the 42/43...

Quote from: V89MOA on September 03, 2018, 05:59:02 PM
When will one of your team's try and sort out the Diamond tracking issues? Simon Dunn has stated before, many months ago, the ball is in tfwm's court and considering they are determined to push out the polished turd that is West Midlands Bus, it might be an idea to actually have reliable live data available for people on every trip rather than every other? I am genuinely surprised this wasn't nipped in the bud before the launch of the 42/43...

Not a clue. Not my department to be completely honest.

Quote from: 2206 on September 03, 2018, 04:02:05 PM
Its is often been the same with every service change/introduction of new vehicles, eg - there were no X12 branded vehicles and X12 next stop anoncements when it first when it was initially launched (the vehicles were branded and next stop anouncements introduced) a short while later.
The Hybrids on the 22/23 never had any next stop anouncements updated for the City Loop.
The X20/X21/X22 branded buses weren't branded on the launch day either.Some of the flags have been updated, some in the Dudley area have (Corronation Gardens and some south of Dudley on the Wolverhampton Road) and Francis Road, Hagley Road (Five Ways).

They were ready on the X12. The announcements worked from day 1 aswell.
22/23 is an update, not a new route. For example, the 126 never had Colmore Row-Broad Street added.
X20/21/22 I can't argue, again IMO not good enough.

Posted before  thinking. Meant to say between Brown Street- Dudley Registry office.

Quote from: Dom on September 03, 2018, 06:44:28 PM
They were ready on the X12. The announcements worked from day 1 aswell.
22/23 is an update, not a new route. For example, the 126 never had Colmore Row-Broad Street added.
X20/21/22 I can't argue, again IMO not good enough.

Posted before  thinking. Meant to say between Brown Street- Dudley Registry office.

Not initialy? From what I recall it was about 2 weeks later.
6708 bare on June 10th - https://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/35219306355/in/photostream/
6705 bare on June 10th - https://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/35179297196/

I recall the first 2 I went on 6706 (June 9th 2017) and 6704 (June 11th 2017), never had any branding or next stop announcements at the time.

Quote from: Dom on September 03, 2018, 06:39:48 PM
Not a clue. Not my department to be completely honest.

That is a great shame.  :(

Quote from: 2206 on September 03, 2018, 06:53:30 PM
My mistake but they weren't all ready anyway -
See @Johns pic of 6703 before branding on the X12 on June 10th -
https://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/35179297196/
It was certainly a little while later (a week or 2) before any of them were out in service branded for the X12.

The X12's announcements didn't work from day 1, took them some days to get the vehicles announcements working on them for the X12 from what I recall.

@Dom all the timetables near Hayley green for the 4H are completely wrong, from my observations.

Is there more to come from the Dudley review? I'm quite surprised the 74 survived any alterations.

Quote from: MasterPlan on September 03, 2018, 08:06:47 PM
Is there more to come from the Dudley review? I'm quite surprised the 74 survived any alterations.
[/quote
Enough damage has been done me finks

After catching the X7 during peak hours yesterday, I have two ideas for it as it just kept on getting stuck in traffic unnecessarily.
First, after the stop outside the Job Centre in Smethwick - it would benefit from going down Smethwick High Street still missing all stops until Galton Bridge Station.

Second idea is from Oldbury instead of using Shidas Lane could it not use the 12/12A route to get on to the Birmingham Road.

Quote from: OH25 on September 04, 2018, 10:36:45 AM
After catching the X7 during peak hours yesterday, I have two ideas for it as it just kept on getting stuck in traffic unnecessarily.
First, after the stop outside the Job Centre in Smethwick - it would benefit from going down Smethwick High Street still missing all stops until Galton Bridge Station.

Second idea is from Oldbury instead of using Shidas Lane could it not use the 12/12A route to get on to the Birmingham Road.

There is a variable route in Smethwick. Either High Street or the dual carrigeway.

2A - Wallows Road seems well used already, but I'm guessing the drivers don't like with the tight turn from Brierley Hill

Hell of a lot of old bus stop flags still on bus stops around the Black Country displaying old numbers
Tfwm should read totally forgot West Midlands

Quote from: karl724223 on September 05, 2018, 01:00:24 AM
Hell of a lot of old bus stop flags still on bus stops around the Black Country displaying old numbers
Tfwm should read totally forgot West Midlands

Plenty of bus stops in West Birmingham also still showing old route number 244.

Sounds like more changes to come as part of the West Midlands Bus Alliance (The Radio has just suggested new buses being due as well)
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/health/2018/09/06/batter-bus-access-to-russells-hall-hospital-planned/

X7 gaining announcements, currently on board 6779, but they seem rather disjointed. Announced stops as you leave the previous stop "your next stop is Dudley Road City Hospital" but then same announcement again as you just pass it. Also announces "You are travelling on route X7 towards Wolverhampton Bus Station", but sometimes cuts before the sentence has finished

"Smethwick High Street, Regent Street. Alight here for Smethwick High Street and Smethwick Rolfe Street Station" and "Smethwick Galton Bridge, alight for National Rail services" were unexpected amounts of detail, fair play

Quote from: Kevin on September 06, 2018, 10:12:50 AM
X7 gaining announcements, currently on board 6779, but they seem rather disjointed. Announced stops as you leave the previous stop "your next stop is Dudley Road City Hospital" but then same announcement again as you just pass it. Also announces "You are travelling on route X7 towards Wolverhampton Bus Station", but sometimes cuts before the sentence has finished

"Smethwick High Street, Regent Street. Alight here for Smethwick High Street and Smethwick Rolfe Street Station" and "Smethwick Galton Bridge, alight for National Rail services" were unexpected amounts of detail, fair play

I am impressed with them tbh, wasn't expecting the level of detail they've put in. Full credit to the commercial team!

Some people talking on the 12A in Oakham this morning:
"so it's 12 and 12A and it's just every 10 minutes together now? Oh that's rather good isn't it?"

Other people on the X7 in Smethwick:
"so this goes through to Roseville now? Oh that's great I only need the one bus now"

On the 3 on Tuesday a number of people talking about how useful it is now it's a simpler every 15 minutes through Lion Farm

6 people alighting the 2A on Wallows Road, half the bus load leaving Merry Hill

But of course it's all doom and gloom and they're just changing routes for the sake of it....

excellent feedback kevin its always the bad point people post about never the good things. for me its good aswell as i can now get 1 bus from blackheath to wolverhampton plus i love the X7 from oldbury to bham NO MORE SMETHWICK AND CAPE HILL lol

I rode on the X7 today. No stop announcements, which was a pity, as the driver admitted to a passenger he wasn't sure where he stopped. We called at many stops from city to Heath st, none of which had X7 on them, and had to explain where the bus went or didn't go. Then he missed the Spon Croft stop in spite of a passenger having rung the bell. Only me on at Dudley, but only 1 late. It'll get better but will the trade build up?

Quote from: Stevo on September 06, 2018, 06:58:39 PM
I rode on the X7 today. No stop announcements, which was a pity, as the driver admitted to a passenger he wasn't sure where he stopped. We called at many stops from city to Heath st, none of which had X7 on them, and had to explain where the bus went or didn't go. Then he missed the Spon Croft stop in spite of a passenger having rung the bell. Only me on at Dudley, but only 1 late. It'll get better but will the trade build up?

The announcements are being loaded into every Platinum over the next few days. Only a few have them as a test to check they work at the moment.

Spon Croft? Where is this stop?

Quote from: Dom on September 06, 2018, 07:29:27 PM
The announcements are being loaded into every Platinum over the next few days. Only a few have them as a test to check they work at the moment.

Spon Croft? Where is this stop?

No they aren't. 2 done so far until a few issues are ironed out. No more till further notice.

Quote from: BN on September 06, 2018, 09:18:57 PM
No they aren't. 2 done so far until a few issues are ironed out. No more till further notice.

Yes one was on the X8 yesterday a YouTube filmed it


His name is Wilko plantet blogs
It is in the channel section and has 923 vids

Also X10 gornal pensnett hospital brierley hill doing well at the moment

Quote from: Dom on September 06, 2018, 07:29:27 PM
The announcements are being loaded into every Platinum over the next few days. Only a few have them as a test to check they work at the moment.

Spon Croft? Where is this stop?

The Spon Croft was a pub (now demolished) on the island at the junction of Oldbury Rd and Spon Lane South. I'm sure that years ago 'via Spon Croft' was on the lower blinds of Oldbury and / or West Brom garage vehicles. Pub long since gone.

Edit: photo of preserved 4738 showing this on the lower blind:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16797800@N07/12596426035

Quote from: Mike K on September 06, 2018, 10:28:58 PM
The Spon Croft was a pub (now demolished) on the island at the junction of Oldbury Rd and Spon Lane South. I'm sure that years ago 'via Spon Croft' was on the lower blinds of Oldbury and / or West Brom garage vehicles. Pub long since gone.

Terminus of the B85 - one of the B87 (87) short workings. As a matter of interest, the B80-B89 routes started as tramway replacements in 1939 - losing the B prefix in 1968. The 87 was also the number of the previous tram service - so that route number has an extremely long history. However the Midland Red and BCT buses showed Spon Lane (at least from the 60s). Was Spon Croft actually a destination or via point on West Bromwich CT buses/West Bromwich allocated PTE vehicles?

Quote from: Mike K on September 06, 2018, 10:28:58 PM
The Spon Croft was a pub (now demolished) on the island at the junction of Oldbury Rd and Spon Lane South. I'm sure that years ago 'via Spon Croft' was on the lower blinds of Oldbury and / or West Brom garage vehicles. Pub long since gone.

...

They were on the Hockley blinds too.  ;)

Quote from: Mike K on September 06, 2018, 10:28:58 PM
The Spon Croft was a pub (now demolished) on the island at the junction of Oldbury Rd and Spon Lane South. I'm sure that years ago 'via Spon Croft' was on the lower blinds of Oldbury and / or West Brom garage vehicles. Pub long since gone.

Edit: photo of preserved 4738 showing this on the lower blind:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16797800@N07/12596426035

Ooooh Mallin Street!

I'm showing my age! Once Spon Croft, always Spon Croft. I used to ride there on West Brom wartime Daimlers with post war bodies.

Quote from: Stevo on September 07, 2018, 09:12:58 AM
I'm showing my age! Once Spon Croft, always Spon Croft. I used to ride there on West Brom wartime Daimlers with post war bodies.

There's a stop by me called the summer house pub which was closed about 10 years ago and has been demolished two years ago yet the stop is still called the summer house

Quote from: karl724223 on September 06, 2018, 10:05:08 PM
Also X10 gornal pensnett hospital brierley hill doing well at the moment

So well in fact that the driver of 3302 yesterday didn't even realise he had a passenger...

An old lady was moaning at the bus stop say the 15 towards merry hill from Kingswinford had be reduced to every 30 mins and I said said the number has just changed not the times to the reply I got "it's on this timetable leaving every 25 past and 55 to". I replied "dear it departs as normal every 10, 25, 40 and 55 per hour...."

To which she said "I haven't got my glasses on so I can not read the timetable"

Quote from: Kevin on September 06, 2018, 11:41:16 AM
Some people talking on the 12A in Oakham this morning:
"so it's 12 and 12A and it's just every 10 minutes together now? Oh that's rather good isn't it?"

Other people on the X7 in Smethwick:
"so this goes through to Roseville now? Oh that's great I only need the one bus now"

On the 3 on Tuesday a number of people talking about how useful it is now it's a simpler every 15 minutes through Lion Farm

6 people alighting the 2A on Wallows Road, half the bus load leaving Merry Hill

But of course it's all doom and gloom and they're just changing routes for the sake of it....

Was it well used when you used it? Admittedly the 3/3A was a great idea, should help with reliability

Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 03:34:37 PM
Was it well used when you used it? Admittedly the 3/3A was a great idea, should help with reliability

Didn't seem all that well used but to be fair this is an area that previously had 3 x B7RLEs and 2 x minibuses an hour, now suddenly 6 x deckers. I imagine at the city end that may well be needed but out in Oakham it seems overkill

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on September 07, 2018, 02:49:23 PM
An old lady was moaning at the bus stop say the 15 towards merry hill from Kingswinford had be reduced to every 30 mins and I said said the number has just changed not the times to the reply I got "it's on this timetable leaving every 25 past and 55 to". I replied "dear it departs as normal every 10, 25, 40 and 55 per hour...."

To which she said "I haven't got my glasses on so I can not read the timetable"

You wonder why you bother sometimes.

Same with the people who dont bother reading the traffic notices!

The Snow Hill line is up the creek today, so I decided to try out the X7.

6778 turned up and I was surprisingly very impressed, cutting out the Dudley Road and Cape Hill makes the journey so much more enjoyable, not only are you not stopping every single stop to let people off, but the traffic is usually better on Cranford Street - when there aren't any temporary traffic lights anyway so you fly from City Hospital to Coopers Lane.

Took me less than 30 minutes from town to home, which would never be achievable on the 80/A, 87 or 89, not even at night times.

I was a little worried regarding the low patronage, only me and one other person boarded at Colmore Row.

Fingers crossed, I'm hoping the X7 turns out to be a success - like the X1/X2 & X51 - because a Sunday service would be a welcome addition. Hopefully not an ambitious error like the X1 (Wolverhampton - Merry Hill), X61 & 19 were

Oh yeah, and the bus wasn't bad either

Quote from: Sh4318 on September 07, 2018, 07:13:11 PM
The Snow Hill line is up the creek today, so I decided to try out the X7. 6778 turned up and I was surprisingly very impressed, cutting out the Dudley Road and Cape Hill makes the journey so much more enjoyable, not only are you not stopping every single stop to let people off, but the traffic is usually better on Cranford Street - when there aren't any temporary traffic lights anyway so you fly from City Hospital to Coopers Lane.

Took me less than 30 minutes from town to home, which would never be achievable on the 80/A, 87 or 89, not even at night times.

I was a little worried regarding the low patronage, only me and one other person boarded at Colmore Row. Fingers crossed, I'm hoping the X7 turns out to be a success - like the X1/X2 & X51 - because a Sunday service would be a welcome addition. Hopefully not an ambitious error like the X1 (Wolverhampton - Merry Hill), X61 & 19 were

I think the lack of promotion about the X7 is whats killing it at the moment because I agree, it has potential to be a very successful route. If the stops are published a bit more, for example on the stop timetables, then that may lead to better footfall.

Same happened with the X10 when that started very poor promotion of the route

Rode up and down the X7 between Brum and Oldbury a few times over this past week. I have to say I love it!
Yeah in rush hour it gets slow, but so does every route. The one inbound journey the Smethwick bypass was closed but still using the High Street only made 5 mins difference
Give it time I'm sure it will pick up, branding will help

Side note, hospital works and eventual opening will likely screw it up

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on September 07, 2018, 02:49:23 PM
An old lady was moaning at the bus stop say the 15 towards merry hill from Kingswinford had be reduced to every 30 mins and I said said the number has just changed not the times to the reply I got "it's on this timetable leaving every 25 past and 55 to". I replied "dear it departs as normal every 10, 25, 40 and 55 per hour...."

To which she said "I haven't got my glasses on so I can not read the timetable"

She is unlikely to be the only intending customer with poor eyesight in an ageing population. Sounds like a need for bigger font and clearer communication of headways needed!

Still loads of bus stops around with the old bus numbers on them and I mean loads
Totally forgot West Midlands

Kevin remarks that resumption of work on the Midland Metropolitan Hospital might impact the X7. All construction traffic should enter and leave via the gates off Grove Street by Grove Lane McDonalds. What has affected Cranford Street has been mainly utilities work for both the hospital and new housing on the opposite side of the road, as well as the awkward accesses for anything larger than a white van to existing light industrial and motor businesses in Cranford Street and the top half of Heath Street. Inconsiderate parking along the bottom end of Heath Street, near Lidl and the health centre, also causes a pinch-point.
If the X7 survives until the MM Hospital opens, it might in fact benefit from adding one stop on Cranford Street, between the new housing on one side and a rear access to the hospital on the other.
Other comments about lack of promotion for the route have some merit, as stopping places are not listed on timetables at stops so people tend to assume 'it's not for me'.

Quite a few stops along the Warwick Road in the Greet/Tyesley area still have 37 on the flags  (and haven't been changed to show 4):
Warwick Road (Stratford Road) towards Solihull.
Warwick Road (Shakespeare Street) towards the City Centre.
Warwick Road (Manor Farm Road) towards Solihull
Warwick Road (Boscombe Road) towards Solihull
All the same sort of bus stop - The poles with the RTI screen on them.
The Digbeth Coach Station flag (towards Carr's Lane/Moor Street) still has X20 on the flag and hasn't been changed to show X50.

I wonder if the 9 branding will now be updated, perhaps to incorporate the 126

Quote from: 2206 on September 11, 2018, 04:02:34 PM
Quite a few stops along the Warwick Road in the Greet/Tyesley area still have 37 on the flags  (and haven't been changed to show 4):
Warwick Road (Stratford Road) towards Solihull.
Warwick Road (Shakespeare Street) towards the City Centre.
Warwick Road (Manor Farm Road) towards Solihull
Warwick Road (Boscombe Road) towards Solihull
All the same sort of bus stop - The poles with the RTI screen on them.
The Digbeth Coach Station flag (towards Carr's Lane/Moor Street) still has X20 on the flag and hasn't been changed to show X50.

Not really sure what relevance this has to the Dudley Network Review

Quote from: Sh4318 on September 11, 2018, 11:36:11 PM
I wonder if the 9 branding will now be updated, perhaps to incorporate the 126

Not really sure what relevance this has to the Dudley Network Review

Should have checked what thread I was posting in, sorry.
Should have posted it here - http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=4048.90

A few weeks in and being out of work I've had the chance to roam the new network a while. One thing I will pick up on is the loss of connection from Sandwell and Dudley Station to Dudley. I remember the predecessor to the 121 (688? I forget) was marketed as having that link from the rail station but over the years I hadn't really seen that many people use it for that purpose. Yes Oldbury isn't all that far away but it seems just too far to warrant walking to the 87/12/12A/X7.

Presumably the lack of custom for that particular link meant it didn't warrant replacing but it seems a shame the station is called "Sandwell and Dudley" without really having a link to the latter

Too add to Kevin's feedback, was there not a stage where the 87 actually went to the station. Sure I've seen a photo of a Leyland Lynx on the forecort of the station in west midlands travel days. Obviously you couldn't do It now as the layout of the station wouldn't allow for buses to enter.

Quote from: danny on September 18, 2018, 02:22:50 PM
Too add to Kevin's feedback, was there not a stage where the 87 actually went to the station. Sure I've seen a photo of a Leyland Lynx on the forecort of the station in west midlands travel days. Obviously you couldn't do It now as the layout of the station wouldn't allow for buses to enter.

Don't ask me when because it was a long time ago, but yes I do remember the 87 being routed up and down Bromford Road to directly serve Sandwell & Dudley station. I don't think it lasted long though, as it took quite a bit of time; I suppose with the increased frequency of the 4/404 it made more sense for passengers to use that and change in Oldbury or West Bromwich.

The 87 was re-routed via Sandwell and Dudley Railway station in mid-1986 (in the PTE era), I'm not sure when it was removed from there but it was likely around the early 1990's

I also recall a service that called there that used mercedes bread vans. This was after the 87 had ceased to serve it.

Reliability of 9 doesn't seem to have improved much seen quite a few bunching up in twos. With a joke of a  10 min frequency nowadays, it can cause quite a full bus. Take note @Tony. The withdrawal of the 140 hasn't helped as now the 9 is the only full stop service between Quinton church and chiquitoes.

Quote from: Trident 4194 on September 19, 2018, 07:38:05 PM
Reliability of 9 doesn't seem to have improved much seen quite a few bunching up in twos. With a joke of a  10 min frequency nowadays, it can cause quite a full bus. Take note @Tony. The withdrawal of the 140 hasn't helped as now the 9 is the only full stop service between Quinton church and chiquitoes.

Traffic happens, rush hour happens, roadworks happen, accidents happen and  school runs happen!

So bunching will still happen regardless of the timetable! Buses have not got wings! Why don't you assess the 9s over a week?

Have you not got better things to? Job, college or school? Wish I had the time to watch buses all day! Tony is MORE experienced than you in running a bus company so do us all a favour and leave the assessment of the 9 to the industry experts with NX

*Drops the mic*

Rant over

Quote from: SL 16 YPN on September 19, 2018, 07:49:19 PM
Traffic happens, rush hour happens, roadworks happen, accidents happen and  school runs happen!

So bunching will still happen regardless of the timetable! Buses have not got wings! Why don't you assess the 9s over a week?

Have you not got better things to? Job, college or school? Wish I had the time to watch buses all day! Tony is MORE experienced than you in running a bus company so do us all a favour and leave the assessment of the 9 to the industry experts with NX

*Drops the mic*

Rant over

Just saying the whole idea of changing the timetable of the 9 wa to make them more reliable, yet that has not been fulfilled so what was the point in changing the timetable?

NX need to update the Platinum promo site (https://nxbus.co.uk/platinum/) as it's out of date now. Last time it was updated by the looks of it is when the X12 was added.

Passenger loadings on the X7 still look very disappointing whenever I see them, which is during rush hour. One left Colmore Row a short time ago with an 87 behind, and the 87 must have had 3 or 4 times as many passengers.

Quote from: Mike K on September 24, 2018, 05:54:11 PM
Passenger loadings on the X7 still look very disappointing whenever I see them, which is during rush hour. One left Colmore Row a short time ago with an 87 behind, and the 87 must have had 3 or 4 times as many passengers.

The x8 however seems to be doing quite well, but there again the 140 was well used too. And with the 126 reduced in frequency it doesn't really give people an alternative

Quote from: Mike K on September 24, 2018, 05:54:11 PM
Passenger loadings on the X7 still look very disappointing whenever I see them, which is during rush hour. One left Colmore Row a short time ago with an 87 behind, and the 87 must have had 3 or 4 times as many passengers.

But in that regards, the 87 stops at more stops and covers Cape Hill.

Quote from: Mike K on September 24, 2018, 05:54:11 PM
Passenger loadings on the X7 still look very disappointing whenever I see them, which is during rush hour. One left Colmore Row a short time ago with an 87 behind, and the 87 must have had 3 or 4 times as many passengers.

Likewise from Dudley southbound. But then the X7 is in essence a brand new service to get used to whereas the X8 is a straight up replacement of the 140, and is less of a guessing game at the moment of where it stops. In fact I'd go as far as saying the every 20 mins isn't enough for it

I do feel the X7 is building up already though, people along the route are getting to know it, heard many a conversation on board the past few weeks. Just needs time and some sort of publicity, which granted should probably have happened from the start

https://mfitchewhotmail.wordpress.com/2018/09/06/wmpte-renumbering/

This might be the most appropiate thread to share this.

It's one of a series of blogs I've been following by a Perry Barr driver!

Quote from: Dom on September 24, 2018, 06:08:26 PM
But in that regards, the 87 stops at more stops and covers Cape Hill.

Very true, but I guess the same can be said of the X51 / 51, and the X51 is rammed in rush hour.

It is early days and it is a new route so probably unfair to judge it at this stage; it took a long while for the X51 to become the route it is now. Will be interesting to see how it develops.

The thing we as drivers notice is people tend to stick to a particular route no in my case the 87 , I can be in cape hill with a 82/89 in front heading to city people wave those buses by and get the 87.
Same with 128 , people ignored the 127/129
X7 I agree is a new route will take time to bed in but it will never carry the numbers the the 87 does because it simply misses out to many key areas simple
IMO it should carry on up Dudley rd from city hospital stop make summer field park stop very key stop and links to other services then onto grove lane stop and down the dual carriageway onto smethwick by pass

Quote from: 2900 on October 01, 2018, 09:46:34 AM
The thing we as drivers notice is people tend to stick to a particular route no in my case the 87 , I can be in cape hill with a 82/89 in front heading to city people wave those buses by and get the 87.
Same with 128 , people ignored the 127/129
X7 I agree is a new route will take time to bed in but it will never carry the numbers the the 87 does because it simply misses out to many key areas simple
IMO it should carry on up Dudley rd from city hospital stop make summer field park stop very key stop and links to other services then onto grove lane stop and down the dual carriageway onto smethwick by pass

Surely that would slow the route down, therefore making it a less attractive proposition?

It's bad enough negotiating traffic on the Dudley Road in a car, never mind a bus

There are now some signs up on the Dudley rd regarding public consultation on road improvements, I hope NX put there 10 pence worth in, bus lane would help, the junction of Heath st/Dudley rd is crying out for traffic lights it's a complete lottery around there.
Aberdeen st junction needs sorting as well just as bad as Heath st

Quote from: Sh4318 on October 01, 2018, 06:27:01 PM
Surely that would slow the route down, therefore making it a less attractive proposition?

It's bad enough negotiating traffic on the Dudley Road in a car, never mind a bus

Agreed - the stretch of Dudley Road between Summerfield Park/City Road and the city boundary at Grove Lane is always an appalling mess because of careless and inconsiderate parking, parking on double yellows, parking at bus stops, parking on crossing zigzags and much more. I walk down there two or three times a week, let alone catching buses, and sometimes wish I was a traffic warden because I would get so much satisfaction (and revenue) from ticketing blatant transgressor after blatant transgressor.
As for the consultation over Dudley Road improvements, looking at the details on the council website this covers the stretch between Spring Hill Island and Heath Street junction, with some wide pavements trimmed to improve road width, improved junctions and a new layout at Heath Street which should help. Parking provision and yellow lines will be reviewed, it says. Nothing specifically about bus stops and certainly no bus priorities.

Well can't say that all this bus renumbering has gone down well with me, am a person who doesn't like change, especially when the change has no particular reason.

But then there is also the amusing side, was in birmingham last week when a Trident passed me and on the back it said 13B, but the way I first saw it, thought it read 138. I then even convinced myself that NX had introduced a 138 and I had misread the timetables. What a fool I felt when I got home and realised it was 13B.