Does anybody remember the old 26 route in Birmingham. Cant remember it well but it went from kingshurst to somewhere. I think it had yellow branding on the metrobuses. It also went through shard end. Plz help :-\
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 07:41:23 PM
Does anybody remember the old 26 route in Birmingham. Cant remember it well but it went from kingshurst to somewhere. I think it had yellow branding on the metrobuses. It also went through shard end. Plz help :-\
Was it from Birmingham - Bromford not sure were it went through though might be wrong
Birmingham - Duddeston - Washwood Heath - Bromford
Basically the 72 route and what can remember the 14 round by Duddeston Rail Station.
Was yellow striped "saver bus" from what I recall it was max 70p fare compared to £1.40 at the time.
I think it was withdrawn a long time ago and replaced by the 54 Birmingham-kingshurst then the the 55A. I remember it being around the early 2000s. I know it went to kinghsurst were its terminus was.
It went to Bromford with Yellow "Saver bus" branded Lynx and Metrobuses, at the very very end I think it was run with Tridents then Mercs. It was replaced by the 72.
http://onthisdaywmuk.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/twm-leyland-lynx-in-saver-bus-livery/
Quote from: TWM Leyland Lynx in Saver Bus LiveryIn November 2004, not only was Travel West Midlands' Leyland Lynx No. 1079 (reg G79EOG) one of the earliest examples remaining in the fleet – it also sported Lea Hall garage's special Saver Bus livery. The rather noticeable colour scheme replaced the typical red central band of the standard TWM version, with bright yellow. I know that fellow Lynxes 1166 1208 also wore this Saver Bus garb, along with a handful of Metrobuses. Whether there were any other Saver Bus Lynxes I don't know, but 1079, 1166 and 1208 are the only ones mentioned in my notes.
The Saver Buses were used on Lea Hall's 26 Bromford to central Birmingham route (via Alum Rock), and had a 60p flat fare for all adult passengers. The concept was launched on 27th July 2004, and resulted in a phenomenal increase in service usage. The last Saver Bus liveried vehicle I noted down in my diary was a Metrobus sighting from May 2007.
This shot, taken on 19th November 2004 in the Masshouse district of central Birmingham, shows 1079 nearing journey's end.
thanks. Does anybody remember the old 237 route that went from Blackheath to Dudley I think. The route was operated by optare solos. And also the 127 route when it was the sunday version of the 258 when it went to Merry hill
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 08:18:47 PM
thanks. Does anybody remember the old 237 route that went from Blackheath to Dudley I think. The route was operated by optare solos. And also the 127 route when it was the sunday version of the 258 when it went to Merry hill
Yes I do...I remember both versions of the 236/7 Extensions (the one to Bearwood I preferred!)
Slightly off topic, but i vaguely remember 2p monday when all bus fares were just 2p on a Monday surprisingly.
Can someone tell me that it was true and i not making things up?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on November 30, 2013, 08:24:53 PM
Slightly off topic, but i vaguely remember 2p monday when all bus fares were just 2p on a Monday surprisingly.
Can someone tell me that it was true and i not making things up?
Thought it was 10p
Quote from: settlerman on November 30, 2013, 08:27:11 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on November 30, 2013, 08:24:53 PM
Slightly off topic, but i vaguely remember 2p monday when all bus fares were just 2p on a Monday surprisingly.
Can someone tell me that it was true and i not making things up?
Thought it was 10p
Could have been, maybe i am confusing it with the 101 Centrebus fare which was 2p at one time.
Can anybody tell me why brickhouse farms bus routes are not as good as they used to be. I remember the routes being
127 Merry hill-Birmingham (sunday only)
208 Merry hill-Dudley
236/237 Blackheath-Dudley
238 Merry hill-West Bromwich
258 Merry hill-Birmingham
404A Walsall-Cradley heath
Does anybody remember this ;)
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 09:04:00 PM
Does anybody remember this ;)
I remember when the buses around Brickhouse were
123/4 Brickhouse Farm - Birmingham
238/9 Dudley to Fatherless Barn
When was this ;)
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 09:10:15 PM
When was this ;)
1976
By 1984 they had changed to
127 Cradley Heath to Birmingham (Hourly Service)
239 Dudley to Cradley Heath
miss them old routes now its just these
4M Merry hill-Walsall
24-Foxyards estate-Merry hill (hourly service)
208 Dudley-Merry hill (hourly service)
289 Old hill-West bromwich
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 09:24:06 PM
miss them old routes now its just these
4M Merry hill-Walsall
24-Foxyards estate-Merry hill (hourly service)
208 Dudley-Merry hill (hourly service)
289 Old hill-West bromwich
To be honest i think the 289 is a complete waste of time, they should find a way to run it through to Merry Hill again, everytime i see it lately, its nearly empty.
Totally agree with you. I was shocked when I read that it will no longer serve merry hill or cradley heath as I live in Rowley regis myself.
just on the edge of brickhouse farm ;)
Miss These Routes that used to operate by me (apart from the 40A/40C)
37A Birmingham City Centre - Birmingham Airport/NEC then became 38
40A/40C Solihull Circulars
41A/41C Acocks Green Circulars then they became 41 then became 42
42C Cranes Park - Solihull Station
56 Marston Green Rail Station - Birmingham City Centre (when Liberators were at BC)
69 Heartlands Hospital - Weoley Castle
98 Sheldon Wheatsheaf - Small Heath Asda (back in late 90's)
Do you remember the 689. It ran through shard end. Can not remember where it went :-\
And also the 206/207 Wrens nest/priory circular
Quote from: Rob4367 on November 30, 2013, 09:35:16 PM
Miss These Routes that used to operate by me (apart from the 40A/40C)
37A Birmingham City Centre - Birmingham Airport/NEC then became 38
40A/40C Solihull Circulars
41A/41C Acocks Green Circulars then they became 41 then became 42
42C Cranes Park - Solihull Station
56 Marston Green Rail Station - Birmingham City Centre (when Liberators were at BC)
69 Heartlands Hospital - Weoley Castle
98 Sheldon Wheatsheaf - Small Heath Asda (back in late 90's)
any idea where to find info on the 41A/C, 42C, 41 & 42. I sort of remember the 42 route, but I wasn't as interested when I was younger?
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 09:39:57 PM
Do you remember the 689. It ran through shard end. Can not remember where it went :-\
Was that not Lea Hall somewhere to the wheatsheaf? Taken over by Central Connect then replaced by 99 to Acocks Green?
Think so. I remember waiting for the 55 on the brook meadow road in shard end when I was little and seeing the 689 go past. It was operated by mercs
The very old number 4. South Birmingham thing when Cotteridge Garage was open. Roughly the business end of the 35 is now, except it served the Green and Pershore Road South .. there must've been an agreement back then when the relief point was within spitting distance of the garage. Pre-86 I think, but I'm sure someone without a mind complaint can remember more clearly then my haze.
68A/C Miss this route
Remember the 138. It was the 139 but extended to Russells hall hospital. Never had much passengers after merry hill. I think it should have served Dudley via the 246 route. It would have been more popular then
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 30, 2013, 09:58:02 PM
The very old number 4. South Birmingham thing when Cotteridge Garage was open. Roughly the business end of the 35 is now, except it served the Green and Pershore Road South .. there must've been an agreement back then when the relief point was within spitting distance of the garage. Pre-86 I think, but I'm sure someone without a mind complaint can remember more clearly then my haze.
Yes, the 4 started around 1963 and first ran between Cotteridge and Pool Farm. It was Birmingham Corporation's first postwar one person operated route, and was operated by Yardley Wood Garage - presumably there was no room for it at Cotteridge at the time. The service was extended to Hawkesley in 1976, and then to Northfield via West Heath and Woodlands Road in 1978 when the cross city railway service started (Cotteridge and Yardley Wood shared the service from this time on). I think it finished in 1986 and was replaced by an extended 27.
The 4 route was very hilly and used narrow roads - just like the 18 - so you may (or may not!) be surprised to learn that Yardley Wood's Jumbo Fleetlines (3881-3904) were mainly used on both routes in the WMPTE era.
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 08:38:55 PM
Can anybody tell me why brickhouse farms bus routes are not as good as they used to be. I remember the routes being
127 Merry hill-Birmingham (sunday only)
208 Merry hill-Dudley
236/237 Blackheath-Dudley
238 Merry hill-West Bromwich
258 Merry hill-Birmingham
404A Walsall-Cradley heath
What was the difference between the 127 & 258?
There were a few attempts to revamp the Walsall to Bloxwich routes, that didn't last long & always reverted to the previous attempts to serve the area. (303/304/305/306, replacing the 319/329 & 330, plus a 308 running Walsall, Beechdale, Four Crosses, Leamore Shops to Bloxwich!)
When the Pelsall version of the 344 was introduced originally, it was a circular service serving the likes of High Heath, Pelsall & back to Bloxwich via Lower Farm & Leamore(This cut the 372/373 back to hourly for some reason for Blakenall passengers, unless there was some E's operated?)
The original 570 from Walsall to Wolverhampton via Leamore, Bloxwich, Mossley then onto New Invention, replacing the 568 & some 370/371 journeys. (That would be a good route now, instead of the 19 & 89. In fact Chase tried a similar 561 which didn't last either!)
A few years later, there was 2 353's. The first one was between Cannock & Walsall, to compete with Stevensons, who had also introduced a 353, then later still, the second 353 ran Walsall, Reedswood Sainsburys(I think some drivers missed that section out allegedly), Four Crosses, Bloxwich, Turnberry, Lower Farm, back to Bloxwich & return to Walsall!)
To complment the 351, and also an early attempt to serve Turnberry on evening & Sunday, there was a 352 running between Walsall & Cheslyn Hay only. (That later became the 319 extension!)
(At some point on Sundays, due to a Staffs contract, the 351 & 352 got extended to Rugeley & Chase Terrace too!)
There must be some more?
Random:-
I think my first ever job I used to use the 994A from Castle Bromwich - Birmingham Business Park. I think continued to the airport. Was a useful service whilst it lasted.
Can't remember what the difference was between that and the 993.
In a previous life before that was the 962. (Only as far as old 97 terminus though).
I do remember they wanted to introduce the 994 to go via Parkfield estate at on time to give fast link to city, but that never happened. I think with that service with RTA on the motorway and the whole issue of traffic on the Aston Expressway, the service became less attractive as an alternative to the 94 bla bla bla.
The 2p child fares were on Mondays in March/April in 1981. I used to have a ride out after school.
old 297 Stourbridge - merryhill - brierley hill - russells hall hosp - pensnett trading estate - gornal - dudley
293/4/5
311 to stourbridge
247/248
Routes I seem to have off my notes and things I remember
I really miss the 68A/C and 590A/C :)
12 Shirley
15 Lea Hall
19 ?? not the current day 19 by WMSNT
21 Bartley Green
26/26A went to Bromford..??
34 and 39 went to Pheasey (current day 33?)
921 (current X64??)
951, 952 and 953 i think went to somewhere in Cannock
964 Gannow
994A Birmingham Business Park
995 Birmingham - Brownhills West ?
996 Birmingham - Sutton Coldfield
Other numbers in my head from when I was a kid - 41,44, 52 (now 952), all the 90s (91,92,93,95,96)
The 88 (Blackheath - City), & 129 (Blackheath - City), 444 (West Bromwich - Bearwood) :'(
Quote from: Justin Tyme on December 01, 2013, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 30, 2013, 09:58:02 PM
The very old number 4. South Birmingham thing when Cotteridge Garage was open. Roughly the business end of the 35 is now, except it served the Green and Pershore Road South .. there must've been an agreement back then when the relief point was within spitting distance of the garage. Pre-86 I think, but I'm sure someone without a mind complaint can remember more clearly then my haze.
Yes, the 4 started around 1963 and first ran between Cotteridge and Pool Farm. It was Birmingham Corporation's first postwar one person operated route, and was operated by Yardley Wood Garage - presumably there was no room for it at Cotteridge at the time. The service was extended to Hawkesley in 1976, and then to Northfield via West Heath and Woodlands Road in 1978 when the cross city railway service started (Cotteridge and Yardley Wood shared the service from this time on). I think it finished in 1986 and was replaced by an extended 27.
The 4 route was very hilly and used narrow roads - just like the 18 - so you may (or may not!) be surprised to learn that Yardley Wood's Jumbo Fleetlines (3881-3904) were mainly used on both routes in the WMPTE era.
I remember 3451 operating the 4. Did 2261 operate on that route prior to the arrival of 3451?
A lot of people miss the old 68a/c. They are not going to bring it back just because people miss it, the route was so bad at keeping on time due to the places it served been congested. I can not see any reason to bring it back.
The only one I really remember is the 996, with the DP Metrobuses used on there.
951/2/3 went to Hednesford I think
The 39 did go to Pheasey, would it have been the same route as the 33 though? The 34 went straight down Kingstanding Road rather then Warren Farm Road like the 33
Didn't the 19 go to Hasbury?
Quote from: driver on December 01, 2013, 09:58:54 AM
old 297 Stourbridge - merryhill - brierley hill - russells hall hosp - pensnett trading estate - gornal - dudley
Agree, for me anyway the 297 operating that full route was far far more useful and the link upto Dudley was well used can only think it was cut for cost reasons and the thinking that the 257 would do
Quote from: John on December 01, 2013, 10:43:00 AM
Didn't the 19 go to Hasbury?
I remember it as a peak-time service only, couple of morning and evening journeys only.
Quote from: Stu on December 01, 2013, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: John on December 01, 2013, 10:43:00 AM
Didn't the 19 go to Hasbury?
I remember it as a peak-time service only, couple of morning and evening journeys only.
It used to run all day Mon -sats using the Quinton by pass. Was reduced to a peak only service. Think for a short time was the 919??
Quote from: Stu on December 01, 2013, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: John on December 01, 2013, 10:43:00 AM
Didn't the 19 go to Hasbury?
I remember it as a peak-time service only, couple of morning and evening journeys only.
19 used to also be "The City Circle" in BCT days.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on December 01, 2013, 12:12:12 AM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 30, 2013, 09:58:02 PM
The very old number 4. South Birmingham thing when Cotteridge Garage was open. Roughly the business end of the 35 is now, except it served the Green and Pershore Road South .. there must've been an agreement back then when the relief point was within spitting distance of the garage. Pre-86 I think, but I'm sure someone without a mind complaint can remember more clearly then my haze.
Yes, the 4 started around 1963 and first ran between Cotteridge and Pool Farm. It was Birmingham Corporation's first postwar one person operated route, and was operated by Yardley Wood Garage - presumably there was no room for it at Cotteridge at the time. The service was extended to Hawkesley in 1976, and then to Northfield via West Heath and Woodlands Road in 1978 when the cross city railway service started (Cotteridge and Yardley Wood shared the service from this time on). I think it finished in 1986 and was replaced by an extended 27.
The 4 route was very hilly and used narrow roads - just like the 18 - so you may (or may not!) be surprised to learn that Yardley Wood's Jumbo Fleetlines (3881-3904) were mainly used on both routes in the WMPTE era.
Thank you Justin, you've rekindled some memories for this old fool. :)
So now-a-days its the 35 & 18 which cover the 4? Interesting!
Quote from: settlerman on December 01, 2013, 10:33:38 AM
I remember 3451 operating the 4. Did 2261 operate on that route prior to the arrival of 3451?
A bit before my time, but various books have photos that show Oympics 2261 and others were indeed used at first. They were replaced by single deck Fleetlines 3451 etc and they in turn were replaced by 80-seat two-door 'jumbo' Fleetlines in 1969.
My first trip on the 4 was on a 'jumbo' Fleetline. It stands out in my mind because going up Parsons Hill (always slow on a jumbo) the driver accidentally changed down from second to 'doors' instead of first, and we rolled backwards a foot or two with the centre doors open. The takeoff with a good load on the steepest part of the hill was a bit of an effort but we got there!
The 4 was a well used service because the 35 did not reach Pool Farm until the mid seventies.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on December 01, 2013, 11:48:09 AM
Quote from: settlerman on December 01, 2013, 10:33:38 AM
I remember 3451 operating the 4. Did 2261 operate on that route prior to the arrival of 3451?
A bit before my time, but various books have photos that show Oympics 2261 and others were indeed used at first. They were replaced by single deck Fleetlines 3451 etc and they in turn were replaced by 80-seat two-door 'jumbo' Fleetlines in 1969.
My first trip on the 4 was on a 'jumbo' Fleetline. It stands out in my mind because going up Parsons Hill (always slow on a jumbo) the driver accidentally changed down from second to 'doors' instead of first, and we rolled backwards a foot or two with the centre doors open. The takeoff with a good load on the steepest part of the hill was a bit of an effort but we got there!
The 4 was a well used service because the 35 did not reach Pool Farm until the mid seventies.
Where did the 35 used to terminate then? Parsons H.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 11:01:35 AM
Quote from: Stu on December 01, 2013, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: John on December 01, 2013, 10:43:00 AM
Didn't the 19 go to Hasbury?
I remember it as a peak-time service only, couple of morning and evening journeys only.
It used to run all day Mon -sats using the Quinton by pass. Was reduced to a peak only service. Think for a short time was the 919??
The 19 Birmingham - Quinton Expressway - Halesowen - Hasbury began to replace the Birminghm - Hasbury section of the 900
when it was curtailed to run Birmingham - Coventry and was run from Quinton using some of their new Lyxes. It eventually became the 19S / 919 and became peak times only. This possibly coincided with the closure of Quinton.
I miss the
20 Smethwick - Worlds End - Harborne
445 Smethwick - Brandhall - Halesowen - Hayley Green
258 Birmingham - Brandhall - Blackheath - Merry Hill - Wombourne - Wolverhampton
Quote from: Sh4166 on December 01, 2013, 12:18:39 AM
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 08:38:55 PM
Can anybody tell me why brickhouse farms bus routes are not as good as they used to be. I remember the routes being
127 Merry hill-Birmingham (sunday only)
208 Merry hill-Dudley
236/237 Blackheath-Dudley
238 Merry hill-West Bromwich
258 Merry hill-Birmingham
404A Walsall-Cradley heath
There was very little difference between the two. The 127 approached Blackheath from Hurst Green via Shell Corner, whereas the 258 ran via Rowley Regis Station.
Also, the where the 258 crossed Halesowen Road in Old Hill and went straight on towards Saltwells, the 127 turned right to enter Old Hill town centre before continuing along to Cradley Heath, then Dudley Wood and back towards Saltwells.
Before the 258 was introduced, the 127 used to run as a service in it's own right Monday to Saturday, but once the 258 came along it was reduced to Sundays and evenings only.
I do believe in the later days of the 258, the 127 was withdrawn, and all sunday and evening services ran as the 258, but someone might need to check that for me.
What was the difference between the 127 & 258?
At one point the 258 used to extend to Wolverhampton and fit in with the Penn Road routes after Merry Hill. Run at various points by HY and PN garages I do believe.
Not read the whole thread so sorry if this has already been highlighted.
Quote from: neale95 on November 30, 2013, 09:47:51 PM
Quote from: Rob4367 on November 30, 2013, 09:35:16 PM
Miss These Routes that used to operate by me (apart from the 40A/40C)
37A Birmingham City Centre - Birmingham Airport/NEC then became 38
40A/40C Solihull Circulars
41A/41C Acocks Green Circulars then they became 41 then became 42
42C Cranes Park - Solihull Station
56 Marston Green Rail Station - Birmingham City Centre (when Liberators were at BC)
69 Heartlands Hospital - Weoley Castle
98 Sheldon Wheatsheaf - Small Heath Asda (back in late 90's)
any idea where to find info on the 41A/C, 42C, 41 & 42. I sort of remember the 42 route, but I wasn't as interested when I was younger?
Quote from: Jack2001 on November 30, 2013, 09:39:57 PM
Do you remember the 689. It ran through shard end. Can not remember where it went :-\
Was that not Lea Hall somewhere to the wheatsheaf? Taken over by Central Connect then replaced by 99 to Acocks Green?
I've still got the route descriptions and maps I made when I was route learning for majority of AG routes over the years, when I get chance I'll upload them.
689 replaced the 98 when the route was Curtailed away from the Fox & Goose and Bromford Rd areas. The 689 used to start at Park Hall school via Poolway and I believe terminated in Sheldon.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 01:58:44 PM
Quote from: Justin Tyme on December 01, 2013, 11:48:09 AM
The 4 was a well used service because the 35 did not reach Pool Farm until the mid seventies.
Where did the 35 used to terminate then? Parsons H.
At that time the 35 ran just between Kings Heath and Brandwood Park Road. It could terminate at Parsons Hill because the junction there was only a crossroads - the roundabout was built in the 1980s.
In 1975 the 35 was extended at both ends, taking over the old 49 (City - Kings Heath via Leopold Street) and extending from Brandwood Park Road to Pool Farm. It was rerouted in 1981 via Balsall Heath instead of Leopold Street & Moseley Road (replacing part of the 48 - the rest was replaced by extending to 50 from the Maypole to Druids Heath). The extension from Pool Farm to Hawkesley came around 1990.
264/265 day 274/275 nights and sunday plus 266
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 11:01:35 AM
Quote from: Stu on December 01, 2013, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: John on December 01, 2013, 10:43:00 AM
Didn't the 19 go to Hasbury?
I remember it as a peak-time service only, couple of morning and evening journeys only.
It used to run all day Mon -sats using the Quinton by pass. Was reduced to a peak only service. Think for a short time was the 919??
When the 19 was first introduced to replace the Birmingham to Hasbury section of the 900 it also ran at night, albeit with a slightly unusual every 90 minutes service. The evening service didn't last all that long. I caught the 19 the second day after it was first introduced. The silver livery roll out across the fleet was still in its very early days, but Quinton garage made an effort to use its silver painted vehicles on the 19 to begin with, presumably because it was replacing silver Timesaver buses on the route.
The buses that day included 2373, 2400 and 2410 (all ex Harborne and in silver) and 2526 (cream and blue).
Quote from: Mike K on December 01, 2013, 06:26:21 PM
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 11:01:35 AM
Quote from: Stu on December 01, 2013, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: John on December 01, 2013, 10:43:00 AM
Didn't the 19 go to Hasbury?
I remember it as a peak-time service only, couple of morning and evening journeys only.
It used to run all day Mon -sats using the Quinton by pass. Was reduced to a peak only service. Think for a short time was the 919??
When the 19 was first introduced to replace the Birmingham to Hasbury section of the 900 it also ran at night, albeit with a slightly unusual every 90 minutes service. The evening service didn't last all that long. I caught the 19 the second day after it was first introduced. The silver livery roll out across the fleet was still in its very early days, but Quinton garage made an effort to use its silver painted vehicles on the 19 to begin with, presumably because it was replacing silver Timesaver buses on the route.
The buses that day included 2373, 2400 and 2410 (all ex Harborne and in silver) and 2526 (cream and blue).
Wasn't the every 90minutes to do with the reduction on buses used? I can't remember the round trip time but I think that was the reason.
Quote from: Liverpool Street on December 01, 2013, 06:28:37 PM
Quote from: Mike K on December 01, 2013, 06:26:21 PM
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 11:01:35 AM
Quote from: Stu on December 01, 2013, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: John on December 01, 2013, 10:43:00 AM
Didn't the 19 go to Hasbury?
I remember it as a peak-time service only, couple of morning and evening journeys only.
It used to run all day Mon -sats using the Quinton by pass. Was reduced to a peak only service. Think for a short time was the 919??
When the 19 was first introduced to replace the Birmingham to Hasbury section of the 900 it also ran at night, albeit with a slightly unusual every 90 minutes service. The evening service didn't last all that long. I caught the 19 the second day after it was first introduced. The silver livery roll out across the fleet was still in its very early days, but Quinton garage made an effort to use its silver painted vehicles on the 19 to begin with, presumably because it was replacing silver Timesaver buses on the route.
The buses that day included 2373, 2400 and 2410 (all ex Harborne and in silver) and 2526 (cream and blue).
Wasn't the every 90minutes to do with the reduction on buses used? I can't remember the round trip time but I think that was the reason.
I would think so LS, I think it must have just about got by with a single bus on a 90 min frequency? IIRC it took 50 odd mins for a one way daytime trip in those days.
What about some really old routes
D1/D11 Dudley - Priory Estate
D3/D4 Dudley - Russells Hall
D5/D9 Dudley - Cradley Heath
S46 Stourbridge - Norton Estate
S47 Stourbridge - Wynall
S48/9 Stourbridge - Pdemore Fields Circular
S50 Stourbridge - High Park
S52/3 Stourbridge - Wollaston Farm
S56 Stourbridge - Norton Estate
137 Birmingham - Kingswinford
138 Birmingham - Gornal Wood
226 Bilston - Halesowen
234/5 Cradley Heath - Hasbury
236 Stourbridge - Wordsley via Lye Cross & Brierley Hill
238/9 Dudley - Fatherless Barn
244 Cradley Heath - Wednesbury
732 Halesowen - Hagley RC School
Quote from: Mike K on December 01, 2013, 06:41:34 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on December 01, 2013, 06:28:37 PM
Quote from: Mike K on December 01, 2013, 06:26:21 PM
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 11:01:35 AM
Quote from: Stu on December 01, 2013, 10:55:04 AM
Quote from: John on December 01, 2013, 10:43:00 AM
Didn't the 19 go to Hasbury?
I remember it as a peak-time service only, couple of morning and evening journeys only.
It used to run all day Mon -sats using the Quinton by pass. Was reduced to a peak only service. Think for a short time was the 919??
When the 19 was first introduced to replace the Birmingham to Hasbury section of the 900 it also ran at night, albeit with a slightly unusual every 90 minutes service. The evening service didn't last all that long. I caught the 19 the second day after it was first introduced. The silver livery roll out across the fleet was still in its very early days, but Quinton garage made an effort to use its silver painted vehicles on the 19 to begin with, presumably because it was replacing silver Timesaver buses on the route.
The buses that day included 2373, 2400 and 2410 (all ex Harborne and in silver) and 2526 (cream and blue).
Wasn't the every 90minutes to do with the reduction on buses used? I can't remember the round trip time but I think that was the reason.
I would think so LS, I think it must have just about got by with a single bus on a 90 min frequency? IIRC it took 50 odd mins for a one way daytime trip in those days.
Was there a similar thing for Walsall's 341 at some point?
I seem to recall that service went to every 90 minutes evenings & Sunday's before West Midlands Travel (as was) gave up & it went to tender as the 342.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 01, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
What about some really old routes
D1/D11 Dudley - Priory Estate
D3/D4 Dudley - Russells Hall
D5/D9 Dudley - Cradley Heath
S46 Stourbridge - Norton Estate
S47 Stourbridge - Wynall
S48/9 Stourbridge - Pdemore Fields Circular
S50 Stourbridge - High Park
S52/3 Stourbridge - Wollaston Farm
S56 Stourbridge - Norton Estate
137 Birmingham - Kingswinford
138 Birmingham - Gornal Wood
226 Bilston - Halesowen
234/5 Cradley Heath - Hasbury
236 Stourbridge - Wordsley via Lye Cross & Brierley Hill
238/9 Dudley - Fatherless Barn
244 Cradley Heath - Wednesbury
732 Halesowen - Hagley RC School
Stu
You've got two the wrong way round - the 137 went to Gornal Wood and the 138 to Kingswinford (Mount Pleasant). There was a short version numbered 139 from Cradley Heath to Pensnett. Some others from that era in the Stourbridge/Kingswinford area were
237 Cradley Heath to Bromley Lane (Standhills Road)
250 Stourbridge to Kinver
254 Stourbridge to Bridgnorth via Enville
255 Stourbridge to Bridgnorth via Bobbington
257 Stourbridge to Wall Heath
259, 260, 261 Dudley to Swindon/Kingswinford/Wall Heath
263 Brierley Hill to Kingswinford via Brockmoor
266 Brierley Hill to Kingswinford via Bromley
278, 279 Prestwood Hospital - Wednesbury / Smethwick
282 Brierley Hill to Wall Heath via Wordsley
311 Stourbridge to Kidderminster
315 Stourbridge to Worcester via Kidderminster
882 Wolverhampton to Stourbridge
883/884 Wolverhampton to Kidderminster via Kingswinford and Kinver
885 Wolverhampton to Kidderminster via Stourbridge
The whole of Dudley and the D numbering system, was that when they NXWM bought out Metrowest (Green buses) so they could have more localised operations in Dudley. I could be wrong.
The Metrowest vs West Midlands travel. I think got nasty when they started running a 125 between Dudley & Wolverhampton.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 08:32:18 PM
The whole of Dudley and the D numbering system, was that when they NXWM bought out Metrowest (Green buses) so they could have more localised operations in Dudley. I could be wrong.
The Metrowest vs West Midlands travel. I think got nasty when they started running a 125 between Dudley & Wolverhampton.
The D numbers were well before Metrowest days. Prefix letters were used by Midland Red for local services in many towns and cities (B for Brierley Hill (as in the B39 Brierley Hill to Upper Pensnett) or Bromsgrove, D for Dudley, K for Kidderminster, R for Redditch, S for Stourbridge, W for Worcester, M for Malvern etc.)
Quote from: Roy on December 01, 2013, 08:30:14 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 01, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
What about some really old routes
D1/D11 Dudley - Priory Estate
D3/D4 Dudley - Russells Hall
D5/D9 Dudley - Cradley Heath
S46 Stourbridge - Norton Estate
S47 Stourbridge - Wynall
S48/9 Stourbridge - Pdemore Fields Circular
S50 Stourbridge - High Park
S52/3 Stourbridge - Wollaston Farm
S56 Stourbridge - Norton Estate
137 Birmingham - Kingswinford
138 Birmingham - Gornal Wood
226 Bilston - Halesowen
234/5 Cradley Heath - Hasbury
236 Stourbridge - Wordsley via Lye Cross & Brierley Hill
238/9 Dudley - Fatherless Barn
244 Cradley Heath - Wednesbury
732 Halesowen - Hagley RC School
Stu
You've got two the wrong way round - the 137 went to Gornal Wood and the 138 to Kingswinford (Mount Pleasant). There was a short version numbered 139 from Cradley Heath to Pensnett. Some others from that era in the Stourbridge/Kingswinford area were
237 Cradley Heath to Bromley Lane (Standhills Road)
250 Stourbridge to Kinver
254 Stourbridge to Bridgnorth via Enville
255 Stourbridge to Bridgnorth via Bobbington
257 Stourbridge to Wall Heath
259, 260, 261 Dudley to Swindon/Kingswinford/Wall Heath
263 Brierley Hill to Kingswinford via Brockmoor
266 Brierley Hill to Kingswinford via Bromley
278, 279 Prestwood Hospital - Wednesbury / Smethwick
282 Brierley Hill to Wall Heath via Wordsley
311 Stourbridge to Kidderminster
315 Stourbridge to Worcester via Kidderminster
882 Wolverhampton to Stourbridge
883/884 Wolverhampton to Kidderminster via Kingswinford and Kinver
885 Wolverhampton to Kidderminster via Stourbridge
Thanks Roy, i always used to get those two the wrong way round.
Few to add
316 Stourbridge - Kidderminster via Norton.
318 Stournridge - Redditch
319 Stourbridge - Charford
Also when WMPTE tookover from Midland Red, they had a lot of routes that needed condensing
for example
245 Stourbridge to Wednesbury
246 Stourbridge to Dudley
247 Dudley to Wednesbury
248 Stourbridge/Dudley - Harts Hill Garage
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 01, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
What about some really old routes
732 Halesowen - Hagley RC School
I used to catch the 732 back in the day, when it was Londonderry - Hagley operated by D10M's
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 01, 2013, 08:39:45 PM
Quote from: Roy on December 01, 2013, 08:30:14 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 01, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
What about some really old routes
D1/D11 Dudley - Priory Estate
D3/D4 Dudley - Russells Hall
D5/D9 Dudley - Cradley Heath
S46 Stourbridge - Norton Estate
S47 Stourbridge - Wynall
S48/9 Stourbridge - Pdemore Fields Circular
S50 Stourbridge - High Park
S52/3 Stourbridge - Wollaston Farm
S56 Stourbridge - Norton Estate
137 Birmingham - Kingswinford
138 Birmingham - Gornal Wood
226 Bilston - Halesowen
234/5 Cradley Heath - Hasbury
236 Stourbridge - Wordsley via Lye Cross & Brierley Hill
238/9 Dudley - Fatherless Barn
244 Cradley Heath - Wednesbury
732 Halesowen - Hagley RC School
Stu
You've got two the wrong way round - the 137 went to Gornal Wood and the 138 to Kingswinford (Mount Pleasant). There was a short version numbered 139 from Cradley Heath to Pensnett. Some others from that era in the Stourbridge/Kingswinford area were
237 Cradley Heath to Bromley Lane (Standhills Road)
250 Stourbridge to Kinver
254 Stourbridge to Bridgnorth via Enville
255 Stourbridge to Bridgnorth via Bobbington
257 Stourbridge to Wall Heath
259, 260, 261 Dudley to Swindon/Kingswinford/Wall Heath
263 Brierley Hill to Kingswinford via Brockmoor
266 Brierley Hill to Kingswinford via Bromley
278, 279 Prestwood Hospital - Wednesbury / Smethwick
282 Brierley Hill to Wall Heath via Wordsley
311 Stourbridge to Kidderminster
315 Stourbridge to Worcester via Kidderminster
882 Wolverhampton to Stourbridge
883/884 Wolverhampton to Kidderminster via Kingswinford and Kinver
885 Wolverhampton to Kidderminster via Stourbridge
Thanks Roy, i always used to get those two the wrong way round.
Few to add
316 Stourbridge - Kidderminster via Norton.
318 Stournridge - Redditch
319 Stourbridge - Charford
Also when WMPTE tookover from Midland Red, they had a lot of routes that needed condensing
for example
245 Stourbridge to Wednesbury
246 Stourbridge to Dudley
247 Dudley to Wednesbury
248 Stourbridge/Dudley - Harts Hill Garage
We're in danger of getting a little mixed up here. All of the top list were transferred from Midland Red to West Midlands PTE as part of the big sale in 1973, although the 732 was actually numbered 132 at that point (it became 732 around 2 years later).
The second list is a bit older. The 237, 250, 257, 259/60/1, 263, 266 and 279 transferred to WMPTE in 1973, as was the 882 (renumbered 256 before then). The rest stayed with Midland Red except for the 278 and 883/4/5 which had gone by 1973.
In the final list, 245-8 transferred to WMPTE and 316, 318 and 319 stayed with Midland Red.
For more infomation on OLD TWM Routes visit this Flickr site which is slowley being updated
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59615439@N03/sets/72157631987803783/
I think the original 70 Oxhill - City could work giving the Grove Lane reisdents a faster service into the city and extra working for Soho Road.
Bring it back as the 76. Miles away from the Solihull one and they seem to like duplicating numbers these days.
There was a 70 Birmingham-Handsworth(Oxhill Road) via Hockley and sohoroad
Former central coachways operation in 1994 which lasted until 1995
Then was withdrawn.
Quote from: nitromatt1 on December 01, 2013, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 01, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
What about some really old routes
732 Halesowen - Hagley RC School
I used to catch the 732 back in the day, when it was Londonderry - Hagley operated by D10M's
Back in the day? ;) You make it sound as if you are an old man ;)
I remember the fun filled days of Midland Red Plaxton Verdes on the 234 running past the end of my street between Dudley and Stourbridge. Those were the days.
Another route I remember was the 610 Halesowen to Kingswinford via Merry Hill and Hawbush.
One final one was the 412 Dudley to Gornal via Merry Hill and Dudley!
Quote from: Trident 4609 on December 02, 2013, 05:14:21 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on December 01, 2013, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 01, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
What about some really old routes
732 Halesowen - Hagley RC School
I used to catch the 732 back in the day, when it was Londonderry - Hagley operated by D10M's
Back in the day? ;) You make it sound as if you are an old man ;)
I feel like it sometimes, wish I could go back in time
Miller Street 66 service from B'ham city centre to Hansons Bridge Road, Pype Hayes.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 10:48:51 PM
I think the original 70 Oxhill - City could work giving the Grove Lane reisdents a faster service into the city and extra working for Soho Road.
Bring it back as the 76. Miles away from the Solihull one and they seem to like duplicating numbers these days.
Pre - deregulation there were 2 routes
70 - Oxhill Road - Grove Lane - Soho Road - Snow Hill Qeensway
96 - Winson Green (opposite prison) - Lodge Road - Jewellery Quarter - City centre
which was replaced by
76 Oxhill Road - Grove Lane - Winson Green - Lodge Road - Jewellery Quarter - City centre
this eventually became
101 when the Centrebus was stopped after the demolition of Masshouse Queensway in Dale End where the Centrbus terminated.
In the early days of competition a 70 was run using a minibus by an independent (I think the same guy who now operates Hi-Ride) along the old 70 route?
I always liked Birmingham in the rush hour in the mid 70s, lots of buses going round with the destination "SERVICE EXTRA"
Seeing mention of the old no 4 route reminded me of the even older no 2 route that side of the city, back in the BCT days. It started at the Ivy Bush (Hagley Road) then took Richmond Hill Road to the University and the QE Hospital - then on via Vincent Drive to Selly Oak, and finally (I can't recall the precise route) through Bournville to terminate up Kings Heath way.
I'm not sure which depot operated it - Selly Oak, perhaps - but I do remember various rush-hour turns brought Rosebery Street depot vehicles onto the route, they had a number of "JOJ" registration double deckers in the 22** fleet number range. That depot's long gone, I think it was off Spring Hill or Dudley Road close to City Hospital.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on December 02, 2013, 07:18:26 PM
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 10:48:51 PM
I think the original 70 Oxhill - City could work giving the Grove Lane reisdents a faster service into the city and extra working for Soho Road.
Bring it back as the 76. Miles away from the Solihull one and they seem to like duplicating numbers these days.
Pre - deregulation there were 2 routes
70 - Oxhill Road - Grove Lane - Soho Road - Snow Hill Qeensway
96 - Winson Green (opposite prison) - Lodge Road - Jewellery Quarter - City centre
which was replaced by
76 Oxhill Road - Grove Lane - Winson Green - Lodge Road - Jewellery Quarter - City centre
this eventually became
101 when the Centrebus was stopped after the demolition of Masshouse Queensway in Dale End where the Centrbus terminated.
In the early days of competition a 70 was run using a minibus by an independent (I think the same guy who now operates Hi-Ride) along the old 70 route?
HY did run the 70 for a short period of time in the 90's i think after they took over the temporary Central Coachways operations (Miller St) depot.
Quote from: Ossie on December 02, 2013, 07:38:24 PM
Seeing mention of the old no 4 route reminded me of the even older no 2 route that side of the city, back in the BCT days. It started at the Ivy Bush (Hagley Road) then took Richmond Hill Road to the University and the QE Hospital - then on via Vincent Drive to Selly Oak, and finally (I can't recall the precise route) through Bournville to terminate up Kings Heath way.
I'm not sure which depot operated it - Selly Oak, perhaps - but I do remember various rush-hour turns brought Rosebery Street depot vehicles onto the route, they had a number of "JOJ" registration double deckers in the 22** fleet number range. That depot's long gone, I think it was off Spring Hill or Dudley Road close to City Hospital.
The 2 did run between the Ivy Bush and Kings Heath - via the QE, Selly Oak and basically what is now the 76 route. It was cut back to Selly Oak - Kings Heath in the late 1960s, and in the early 1970s operation was transferred from Harborne to Selly Oak Garage. In 1980 it was extended from Selly Oak to Weoley Castle, and around Deregulation it was extended from Kings Heath to Yardley Wood via Hollybank Road and Chinn Brook Road. It eventually became part of the 69.
Rosebery Street was indeed off Spring Hill. It was a former tram depot and closed in the late 1960s, a year or so before BCT became part of WMPTE. The 22** JOJ double deckers were Leyland PD2s.
Thanks for that, JT .... brought back a few memories of a service that I used to use as a schoolkid :)
I should have remembered that the Rosebery Street d/ds were Leyland PD2s. Distinctive bodywork, and a fair old turn of speed as well!
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 02, 2013, 08:11:57 PM
Quote from: fleetline6477 on December 02, 2013, 07:18:26 PM
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 10:48:51 PM
I think the original 70 Oxhill - City could work giving the Grove Lane reisdents a faster service into the city and extra working for Soho Road.
Bring it back as the 76. Miles away from the Solihull one and they seem to like duplicating numbers these days.
Pre - deregulation there were 2 routes
70 - Oxhill Road - Grove Lane - Soho Road - Snow Hill Qeensway
96 - Winson Green (opposite prison) - Lodge Road - Jewellery Quarter - City centre
which was replaced by
76 Oxhill Road - Grove Lane - Winson Green - Lodge Road - Jewellery Quarter - City centre
this eventually became
101 when the Centrebus was stopped after the demolition of Masshouse Queensway in Dale End where the Centrbus terminated.
In the early days of competition a 70 was run using a minibus by an independent (I think the same guy who now operates Hi-Ride) along the old 70 route?
HY did run the 70 for a short period of time in the 90's i think after they took over the temporary Central Coachways operations (Miller St) depot.
That's correct, it was after Central Coachways bus operations were shut down and merged in to the main WMT fleet
How do you people remember in such clarity? I can just about remember what service I travelled on last week!!
What I'd do to relive the old days of Cotteridge, Hockley and the like.
Quote from: Ossie on December 02, 2013, 10:57:47 PM
Thanks for that, JT .... brought back a few memories of a service that I used to use as a schoolkid :)
I should have remembered that the Rosebery Street d/ds were Leyland PD2s. Distinctive bodywork, and a fair old turn of speed as well!
Me too Ossie, although my memory only goes back to when the 2 ran Kings Heath to Selly Oak. I too used to use it as a school kid. Who'd have imagined bus routes were once that short eh? Funnily enough it usually ran to time, unlike the 69 route that replaced it.
I remember:
66A Bearwood to Erdington/Sutton
66 Ladywood to Erdington/Sutton
443/ 81 Birmingham to Brandhall
95 Birmingham to Ladywood
83 Soho to Birmingham
88 Birmingham to Blackheath
440 Bearwood to Perry Barr, ran by Midland Red, but there was a Metrobus on there once :P
Quote from: Sh4166 on December 03, 2013, 12:10:26 PM
440 Bearwood to Perry Barr, ran by Midland Red, but there was a Metrobus on there once :P
A little offtopic, but when the bull ring bus station closed in 1999 does anyone remember the MRW rerouted the 440 so it ran Birmingham - Perry Barr via the Hagley Road.
At the same time they also re-introduced the X93 during the daytime running every hour. Between Kidderminster and Birmingham combined with the 192 there was a 30 minute frequency, and between Bearwood and Birmingham along with the 440, it combined to make a 15 minute frequency.
The Bearwood to Brandhall section was taken up by an extension of the 443 running Bearwood to Birmingham via Four Dwellings, Brandhall, Londonderry, Smethwick, Dudley Road.
Once first withdrew from the 123/124/440/443 routes, the 123/124 was originally covered between Cradley and Bearwood by an extension to the 236/237, although Pete's Travel took over the 123 and the 440 eventually combining both to make the 123 Merry Hill - Perry Barr route.
The 443 was taken over by Birmingham Coach Company who interworked it with the 221 service from Bearwood to West Bromwich (basically the 48). Through tickets were available between Brandhall and Birmingham I seem to remember. Although, when the 221 was withdrawn, the 443 was split to Four Dwellings - Bearwood, and the 83 created Brandhall - Birmingham. The 443 was withdrawn without replacement a few years back.
When first withdrew from the 123 / 124 / 440 / 443 services,
http://web.archive.org/web/20030810010209/http://www.travelwm.co.uk/bus/routemaps/birmingham/birmingham.html
for some more old bus routes :)
Quote from: sonic84 on December 03, 2013, 05:59:13 PM
Quote from: Sh4166 on December 03, 2013, 12:10:26 PM
440 Bearwood to Perry Barr, ran by Midland Red, but there was a Metrobus on there once :P
A little offtopic, but when the bull ring bus station closed in 1999 does anyone remember the MRW rerouted the 440 so it ran Birmingham - Perry Barr via the Hagley Road.
At the same time they also re-introduced the X93 during the daytime running every hour. Between Kidderminster and Birmingham combined with the 192 there was a 30 minute frequency, and between Bearwood and Birmingham along with the 440, it combined to make a 15 minute frequency.
The Bearwood to Brandhall section was taken up by an extension of the 443 running Bearwood to Birmingham via Four Dwellings, Brandhall, Londonderry, Smethwick, Dudley Road.
Once first withdrew from the 123/124/440/443 routes, the 123/124 was originally covered between Cradley and Bearwood by an extension to the 236/237, although Pete's Travel took over the 123 and the 440 eventually combining both to make the 123 Merry Hill - Perry Barr route.
The 443 was taken over by Birmingham Coach Company who interworked it with the 221 service from Bearwood to West Bromwich (basically the 48). Through tickets were available between Brandhall and Birmingham I seem to remember. Although, when the 221 was withdrawn, the 443 was split to Four Dwellings - Bearwood, and the 83 created Brandhall - Birmingham. The 443 was withdrawn without replacement a few years back.
When first withdrew from the 123 / 124 / 440 / 443 services,
The only reason I understood that MRW revised the 440 to run from Perry Barr - Bearwood - Birmingham was because following the closure of Digbeth a point was reached when it was one of the few MRW daytime services operating in Birmingham. It was operated from Kidderminster and therefore interworked with 192 / X93.
Did the 55A replace the 54 Brimingham-Kingshurst. Just wondering
Quote from: sonic84 on December 03, 2013, 05:59:13 PM
Quote from: Sh4166 on December 03, 2013, 12:10:26 PM
440 Bearwood to Perry Barr, ran by Midland Red, but there was a Metrobus on there once :P
A little offtopic, but when the bull ring bus station closed in 1999 does anyone remember the MRW rerouted the 440 so it ran Birmingham - Perry Barr via the Hagley Road.
At the same time they also re-introduced the X93 during the daytime running every hour. Between Kidderminster and Birmingham combined with the 192 there was a 30 minute frequency, and between Bearwood and Birmingham along with the 440, it combined to make a 15 minute frequency.
The Bearwood to Brandhall section was taken up by an extension of the 443 running Bearwood to Birmingham via Four Dwellings, Brandhall, Londonderry, Smethwick, Dudley Road.
Once first withdrew from the 123/124/440/443 routes, the 123/124 was originally covered between Cradley and Bearwood by an extension to the 236/237, although Pete's Travel took over the 123 and the 440 eventually combining both to make the 123 Merry Hill - Perry Barr route.
The 443 was taken over by Birmingham Coach Company who interworked it with the 221 service from Bearwood to West Bromwich (basically the 48). Through tickets were available between Brandhall and Birmingham I seem to remember. Although, when the 221 was withdrawn, the 443 was split to Four Dwellings - Bearwood, and the 83 created Brandhall - Birmingham. The 443 was withdrawn without replacement a few years back.
When first withdrew from the 123 / 124 / 440 / 443 services,
It's funny to think, if it wasn't for the 123 and 440, we probably wouldn't have the 53 (I know it's not everyone's favourite route, but it's a gem for me).
The 221 was replaced by the 447, the 448 was a similar route, serving Smethwick instead of Mallin Street (correct me if I'm wrong). Does anyone know the origin of the 444?
The 221 was introduced by Birmingham Coach Company as competition for the 448.
TWM responded by introducing the 447 Bearwood - West Bromwich will followed pretty much the same route as the 221. I think the only difference might have been the 221 omitted Bearwood Town Centre towards West Bromwich.
I'm pretty sure all three routes ran together for a number of years. And the 221 was withdrawn by BCC around 2003/2004 I think.
Quote from: sonic84 on December 03, 2013, 11:08:30 PM
The 221 was introduced by Birmingham Coach Company as competition for the 448.
TWM responded by introducing the 447 Bearwood - West Bromwich will followed pretty much the same route as the 221. I think the only difference might have been the 221 omitted Bearwood Town Centre towards West Bromwich.
I'm pretty sure all three routes ran together for a number of years. And the 221 was withdrawn by BCC around 2003/2004 I think.
The 221 was originally a joint Midland Red / West Bromwich Corporation service passing totally to West Midlands in December 1973. When all Sandwell services were renumbered into the 400 series it became the 448. So Birmingham Coach Co were using the historical route number when they introduced their 221.
Quote from: Jack2001 on December 03, 2013, 10:34:57 PM
Did the 55A replace the 54 Brimingham-Kingshurst. Just wondering
The 54 was withdrawn before the 55A was created. Originally the 59 replaced the section of the 54 route around Yorks Wood estate, but then I guess they realised that people round there needed a more direct and more frequent route to Birmingham, and obviously needed a link to Chelmsley Wood so created the 55A. But it terminates at Chelmsley Wood, not Kingshurst.
Quote from: busfan2847 on December 04, 2013, 02:16:00 AM
Quote from: sonic84 on December 03, 2013, 11:08:30 PM
The 221 was introduced by Birmingham Coach Company as competition for the 448.
TWM responded by introducing the 447 Bearwood - West Bromwich will followed pretty much the same route as the 221. I think the only difference might have been the 221 omitted Bearwood Town Centre towards West Bromwich.
I'm pretty sure all three routes ran together for a number of years. And the 221 was withdrawn by BCC around 2003/2004 I think.
The 221 was originally a joint Midland Red / West Bromwich Corporation service passing totally to West Midlands in December 1973. When all Sandwell services were renumbered into the 400 series it became the 448. So Birmingham Coach Co were using the historical route number when they introduced their 221.
It's funny how it's all changed. 447 replaced by the 129, a link between a Birmingham & West Smethwick. Before at West Smethwick, you only used to be able to get to Smethwick, West Bromwich, Bearwood & Harborne/QE. Now you can go to West Bromwich, Sandwell Hospital, Great Barr, Smethwick, Bearwood, Harborne, Selly Oak, Bartley Green, Five Ways & Birmingham :P
Thanks.
(https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7063%2F6856912073_48079da25b_o.jpg&hash=db9a693651ea35f0ca0986920fc32e85a3db68ae)
I live on what is now the S2 in Bentley Heath near Knowle. Had a flickr search on travel west midlands dorridge and it came up apart from the 40A and 40C which I used to use, but also the 41 and 38;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59615439@N03/8615282345/sizes/l/in/photolist-brVt4X-eh2tWp-e8izhM-cow7r9-fm72or/ (41 route)
Does anyone know the arrangements for these old routes; there was also a 40 to Acocks Green from Knowle which I found a pic of a year or two ago online. I think that replaced the 38 which ran from Acocks Green to Dorridge, as I found yet another picture here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/6340575838/sizes/l/in/photostream/
I assume the 41 ran to Birmingham from Dorridge? Hope someone knows and thanks
And just for interest here is a pic of a Mercedes Artic at Dorridge station, can't have been easy to reverse it into there!!
(https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2723%2F4035828484_c27e09064c_o.jpg&hash=d127ab9cbbf6e11f1c1e37079c6d75051bd49aa8)
I remember service changes in June 1998
Service 38 Withdrawn
Acocks Green-Solihull replaced by extended Service 71
Solihull-Dorridge covered by Service 41
Solihull-Damsonwood previously covered by 41 now served
By Extended Route 6 to Birmingham Airport
September 1999
Service 71 Acocks Green-Solihull Withdrawn
Replaced by 40 extended from Solihukk to Yardley Swan
April 2001
Service 41 operating Biringham-Solihull only
New 40A/40C will cover Solihull-Dorridge-Knowle-Solihull
As Circular Routes.
Solihull-Acocks Green section of 40 replaced by new service 30
Yardley swan will no longer be served
January 2009
40A/40C renumbered S2/S3
Withdrawn by mid 2011 replaced by silver line
Service 30 to central connect by 2011
That's my knowledge of 30/38/40 services
Thanks for that! Just one question, did the 41 from b'ham to Solihull/Dorridge run along the warwick road, aka, the 37 route?
Quote from: Liberator9 on December 08, 2013, 09:07:02 AM
Thanks for that! Just one question, did the 41 from b'ham to Solihull/Dorridge run along the warwick road, aka, the 37 route?
It ran Statford Rd, School Rd, Lakey Lane, Gospel Oak, Redstone Farm Rd and Streetsbrook Rd to Solihull.
Thanks; fairly long route then
At one stage the 41 also served Prospect Lane and Sharman's Cross. Not sure whether it only went as far as Solihull at that stage though. The 41 chopped and changed a lot, with the outer terminus being Damsonwood, Solihull and Dorridge at various times.
they have chopped and changed the routes a lot, certainly around the early 2000s. Best route round near me was the 40A and 40C as had a bus home every 15 minutes from solihull station. Shame that it got changed into the S2 and S3 to save money.
Quote from: Liberator9 on December 08, 2013, 10:16:07 AM
they have chopped and changed the routes a lot, certainly around the early 2000s. Best route round near me was the 40A and 40C as had a bus home every 15 minutes from solihull station. Shame that it got changed into the S2 and S3 to save money.
They were always changing the South Solihull routes about and then i guess just gave up on them. Must have been right profit draggers.
Routes identified by letters not numbers
SWL Kings Heath - Bearwood via Outer Circle route and QE / University
Minibus services in Yardley / Solihull - I remember a Y but not the routes they operated on. Anybody help out?
I also remember 442 ran out of HY Smethwick Blue Gates - Londonderry Queens Head about 10 minute running time - didn't last long.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on December 08, 2013, 10:55:50 PM
Routes identified by letters not numbers
SWL Kings Heath - Bearwood via Outer Circle route and QE / University
Minibus services in Yardley / Solihull - I remember a Y but not the routes they operated on. Anybody help out?
I also remember 442 ran out of HY Smethwick Blue Gates - Londonderry Queens Head about 10 minute running time - didn't last long.
They went though a period of Mini buses we used to have the hail and ride 661, run by AG later became the 98 now a distant memory. Think the closet thing to it is the 25 by BCC.
I also remember the network of Central coachways buses didn't last long, 25, 43, 44 an otherr to memory/
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 08, 2013, 11:05:44 PM
Quote from: fleetline6477 on December 08, 2013, 10:55:50 PM
Routes identified by letters not numbers
SWL Kings Heath - Bearwood via Outer Circle route and QE / University
Minibus services in Yardley / Solihull - I remember a Y but not the routes they operated on. Anybody help out?
I also remember 442 ran out of HY Smethwick Blue Gates - Londonderry Queens Head about 10 minute running time - didn't last long.
They went though a period of Mini buses we used to have the hail and ride 661, run by AG later became the 98 now a distant memory. Think the closet thing to it is the 25 by BCC.
I also remember the network of Central coachways buses didn't last long, 25, 43, 44 an otherr to memory/
I think Central Coachways also ran a 20, 75, 76 possibly even a 70 (which moved to HY on closure on Central bus operations) & a 111. They used mainly Leyland Nationals, plus various minibuses
SWL used to be great, Lynx round part of the Outer Circle route except for a trip via the QE. I remember doing the very last SWL the day it was withdrawn. Can't remember why but my mate made sure he was the very last person off the Lynx too... Which Lynxes were SWL branded, vaguely recall 1290, 1292 and 1305 maybe? Do remember once seeing breadvan 219 on it in Kings Heath, guessing Elliott Road were short that day.
Quote from: Cheese on December 09, 2013, 05:10:56 PM
SWL used to be great, Lynx round part of the Outer Circle route except for a trip via the QE. I remember doing the very last SWL the day it was withdrawn. Can't remember why but my mate made sure he was the very last person off the Lynx too... Which Lynxes were SWL branded, vaguely recall 1290, 1292 and 1305 maybe? Do remember once seeing breadvan 219 on it in Kings Heath, guessing Elliott Road were short that day.
I also have 1233 and 1236 branded. 1290 was certainly branded
What dates were the Nationals branded for the Outer Circle?
Quote from: Liverpool Street on December 09, 2013, 05:24:31 PM
What dates were the Nationals branded for the Outer Circle?
This branding LS?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59615439@N03/7544891154/
It was 1989 if so
Quote from: John on December 09, 2013, 05:28:14 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on December 09, 2013, 05:24:31 PM
What dates were the Nationals branded for the Outer Circle?
This branding LS?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59615439@N03/7544891154/
It was 1989 if so
Yeah just wondered if anyone had any specific dates
Quote from: fleetline6477 on December 08, 2013, 10:55:50 PM
Minibus services in Yardley / Solihull - I remember a Y but not the routes they operated on. Anybody help out?
There were loads during the 1987-1993ish period, mostly operated by AG, including:
A Solihull - Blossomfield - Olton - Acocks Green
B Solihull - Bentley Heath - Dorridge
D Solihull - Damsonwood
K Solihull- Knowle - Dorridge
L Solihull - Monkspath - Shirley
M Solihull - Monkspath - Cheswick Green - Shirley Station
R Acocks Green - Lincoln Road North - Yardley Swan
S Acocks Green - Olton - Sheldon
T Stechford - Tyseley - Sparkbrook
Y Solihull - Yardley - Acocks Green - Hall Green (The Baldwin)
The L and M were operated by YW. At peak times several of these were helped out by big bus routes (such as 162 Solihull - Monkspath - Maypole). Short workings could result in interesting letters - I often used to see buses on the Y running to Acocks Green or Yardley showing "YE"!
The first minibuses at AG were Iveco Dailys. They were soon supplemented (and later replaced) replaced by MCW Metroriders, which in turn gave way to Mercedes 0814s(?). They were also scheduled to run on other services at times. One mini was used on the evening 50A Maypole - Wythall (a Hereford & Worcester CC tendered service) for some years; and for a short while the Sunday service on the 1 was Metrorider.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on December 09, 2013, 10:49:59 PM
Quote from: fleetline6477 on December 08, 2013, 10:55:50 PM
Minibus services in Yardley / Solihull - I remember a Y but not the routes they operated on. Anybody help out?
There were loads during the 1987-1993ish period, mostly operated by AG, including:
A Solihull - Blossomfield - Olton - Acocks Green
B Solihull - Bentley Heath - Dorridge
D Solihull - Damsonwood
K Solihull- Knowle - Dorridge
L Solihull - Monkspath - Shirley
M Solihull - Monkspath - Cheswick Green - Shirley Station
R Acocks Green - Lincoln Road North - Yardley Swan
S Acocks Green - Olton - Sheldon
T Stechford - Tyseley - Sparkbrook
Y Solihull - Yardley - Acocks Green - Hall Green (The Baldwin)
The L and M were operated by YW. At peak times several of these were helped out by big bus routes (such as 162 Solihull - Monkspath - Maypole). Short workings could result in interesting letters - I often used to see buses on the Y running to Acocks Green or Yardley showing "YE"!
The first minibuses at AG were Iveco Dailys. They were soon supplemented (and later replaced) replaced by MCW Metroriders, which in turn gave way to Mercedes 0814s(?). They were also scheduled to run on other services at times. One mini was used on the evening 50A Maypole - Wythall (a Hereford & Worcester CC tendered service) for some years; and for a short while the Sunday service on the 1 was Metrorider.
Justin Tyme,
AG Mercs were 709D's with Carlyle bodywork 701-720 G701-720HOP
I seem to remember YW converting the 2 and 12 to Metrorider operation.
Quote from: fleetline6477 on December 10, 2013, 09:52:52 AM
I seem to remember YW converting the 2 and 12 to Metrorider operation.
Yes they did for a short period
I remember that, that was just stupid. Did they make them every really frequent at the same time. In the 90's I think they went through a period of reducing buses sizes and doubling frequencies. Can't seeing that making much of a return on investment if you need more drivers etc.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 10, 2013, 10:14:30 AM
I remember that, that was just stupid. Did they make them every really frequent at the same time. In the 90's I think they went through a period of reducing buses sizes and doubling frequencies. Can't seeing that making much of a return on investment if you need more drivers etc.
But I think back then, drivers of minibuses were paid less than drivers of full size buses
Quote from: Winston on December 10, 2013, 10:20:04 AM
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 10, 2013, 10:14:30 AM
I remember that, that was just stupid. Did they make them every really frequent at the same time. In the 90's I think they went through a period of reducing buses sizes and doubling frequencies. Can't seeing that making much of a return on investment if you need more drivers etc.
But I think back then, drivers of minibuses were paid less than drivers of full size buses
Probably but they also went through aperid of converting DD routes to Lynxes on mass including the dare I mention it 94 lol.
Who remembers the Works Services to Longbridge? Some lasted well into the TWM era: -
800 Birmingham - Bristol Road - Longbridge - Lickey Road - Lowhill Lane - Cofton Hackett (BC)
801 Birmingham - Pershore Road - Turves Green - Cofton Hackett (BC): basically the same as the 47 now
806 Yardley Wood - Cotteridge - Northfield - Longbridge - Lickey Road - Lowhill Lane - Cofton Hackett (YW)
Other services operated by WMPTE were: -
802 Kings Norton Green - West Heath - Groveley Lane - Lowhill Lane - Longbridge
803 Quinton - Harborne - Selly Oak - Longbridge - Lickey Road - Lowhill Lane - Cofton Hackett
804 Yardley Swan - Outer Circle - Cotteridge - Longbridge - Lickey Road - Lowhill Lane - Cofton Hackett
805 Fox & Goose - City Centre - Longbridge - Cofton Hackett
800s towards city showed route number 62, and 801s showed 47. There were also additional journeys on the 62 starting from Longbridge, going to city, that actually loaded up in the central reservation on Lickey Road - just like the trams used to do!
I guess that the last services were withdrawn when the factories closed, but I have a feeling that they were not deregistered until quite some time afterwards. Does anyone know?
Justin - those services still carried on even when the factories were closed!! It whittled down all the way to one service extra from Longbridge Island into city, and carried no one
Thanks LS - I did wonder!
I got to know the services best during the late 70s and early 80s, when I worked in Northfield. When I left work I'd catch a 62 or 63 to Longbridge to see the chaos at 5 pm. I found that the 802, which ran the other way to most of the traffic, gave the best opportunity to see the most buses.
In addition to WMPTE there were many independent coaches running on works services to Redditch, Bromsgrove, Worcester and the Black Country - some of these lasted until the factory closed.
A pain for bus drivers, I bet, but great for the enthusiast!
Quote from: Justin Tyme on December 10, 2013, 08:53:05 PM
Who remembers the Works Services to Longbridge? Some lasted well into the TWM era: -
800 Birmingham - Bristol Road - Longbridge - Lickey Road - Lowhill Lane - Cofton Hackett (BC)
801 Birmingham - Pershore Road - Turves Green - Cofton Hackett (BC): basically the same as the 47 now
806 Yardley Wood - Cotteridge - Northfield - Longbridge - Lickey Road - Lowhill Lane - Cofton Hackett (YW)
Other services operated by WMPTE were: -
802 Kings Norton Green - West Heath - Groveley Lane - Lowhill Lane - Longbridge
803 Quinton - Harborne - Selly Oak - Longbridge - Lickey Road - Lowhill Lane - Cofton Hackett
804 Yardley Swan - Outer Circle - Cotteridge - Longbridge - Lickey Road - Lowhill Lane - Cofton Hackett
805 Fox & Goose - City Centre - Longbridge - Cofton Hackett
800s towards city showed route number 62, and 801s showed 47. There were also additional journeys on the 62 starting from Longbridge, going to city, that actually loaded up in the central reservation on Lickey Road - just like the trams used to do!
I guess that the last services were withdrawn when the factories closed, but I have a feeling that they were not deregistered until quite some time afterwards. Does anyone know?
812 Tile Cross - Rover Drews Lane
816 Harborne - Land Rover Solihull
818 Solihull Station - British Gas Works
823 Pheasey - Witton
842 Pheasey - Lucas Works
845 Kingstanding Circle - Rover Works Solihull
850 Birmingham - Lode Lane Works (via Warwick Road)
851 Birmingham - Lode Lane Works (via Coventry Road)
Were all still running in 1991 as well as those above
Those works services were a good days work, even though they were mostly splits and numerous 10pm finishes.
Sort of the Jaguar Works on the 957W now..
Ok then, in my 1991 fare tables, the highest fare is £1.70, anyone like to guess which two places that is between?
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 10:11:49 PM
Ok then, in my 1991 fare tables, the highest fare is £1.70, anyone like to guess which two places that is between?
No different to many services today then(!)
Routes with Letters - This was asked earlier.
A - Solihull Station - Knowle Green
C - Cotteridge - Hawkesley
L - Solihull - Shirley via Widney Manor
M - Solihull - Shirley via Monkspath
P - Birmingham Business Park - Airport
R - Acocks Green - Yardley via Clay lane
S - Acocks Green - Sheldon (Wheatsheaf)
T - Sparkbrook - Castle Bromwich
Y - Solihull - Hall Green
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 10:11:49 PM
Ok then, in my 1991 fare tables, the highest fare is £1.70, anyone like to guess which two places that is between?
Something on the 900 to Hasbury I expect... although am I wrong with dates?
Or all the way around the Circle?
Quote from: Liverpool Street on December 10, 2013, 10:20:54 PM
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 10:11:49 PM
Ok then, in my 1991 fare tables, the highest fare is £1.70, anyone like to guess which two places that is between?
Something on the 900 to Hasbury I expect... although am I wrong with dates?
Or all the way around the Circle?
All the way around the circle was still £1.10. The 900 was just Birmingham-Coventry in 1991 and also had max fare of £1.10.
2nd highest was £1.65 which was Birmingham-Lichfield on the 901
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 10:11:49 PM
Ok then, in my 1991 fare tables, the highest fare is £1.70, anyone like to guess which two places that is between?
It wouldn't have been Birmingham - Hereford! Was WMT running Birmingham - Redditch on the 146 at that time?
Alternatively, could it have been Birmingham - Tamworth? I have a record that WMT ran a couple of trips on the X75 for a few months in 1991-2.
Was there a Birmingham - Cannock service at the time?
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 10:11:49 PM
Ok then, in my 1991 fare tables, the highest fare is £1.70, anyone like to guess which two places that is between?
Service 966 between Birmingham International and Wolverhampton?
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 10:11:49 PM
Ok then, in my 1991 fare tables, the highest fare is £1.70, anyone like to guess which two places that is between?
Birmingham to Bromsgrove on the 145?
Quote from: nitromatt1 on December 10, 2013, 10:30:24 PM
Was there a Birmingham - Cannock service at the time?
If I remember correctly the 951 at least was running during this period still using Timesaver branded DP Metrobuses, there was also a 952, but I can't remember when that was withdrawn
Quote from: Justin Tyme on December 10, 2013, 10:27:56 PM
Quote from: Tony on December 10, 2013, 10:11:49 PM
Ok then, in my 1991 fare tables, the highest fare is £1.70, anyone like to guess which two places that is between?
It wouldn't have been Birmingham - Hereford! Was WMT running Birmingham - Redditch on the 146 at that time?
Alternatively, could it have been Birmingham - Tamworth? I have a record that WMT ran a couple of trips on the X75 for a few months in 1991-2.
Birmingham to Brereton on the 952A is the correct answer.
Maximum off-peak fare was still 50p in 1991, no Daysaver, but there was the off-peak thrufare at 70p allowing unlimited number of journies within 1 hour of issue. This was launched as 50p when the off-peak fare was 32p
Can anyone confirm if my memory is correct of the old 20 route Quinton to Green Man/City?
At one stage in the 90s were there 3 operators on this route - WMT, Central and City line (green/white Nationals?) I seem to recall that City Line also ran a number 3 route (city - Woodgate) at the same time and for some reason the City Line number 20 went the 3/103 route down Court Oak Road rather than the WMT route down War Lane and Tennal Road.
I always thought it was odd to have 3 operators on this short route.
Also, in the 90s how many different fares (West Mids region only) did WMT have as it used to cost me 24p as a child on the 103 to the Court Oak Pub but on the 20 it cost 32p to Tennal Road which was a similar distance. I think the maximum child fare was 37p at that time and I think there was a short hop fare too.
Thanks
Quote from: j789 on December 11, 2013, 05:15:26 PM
Can anyone confirm if my memory is correct of the old 20 route Quinton to Green Man/City?
At one stage in the 90s were there 3 operators on this route - WMT, Central and City line (green/white Nationals?) I seem to recall that City Line also ran a number 3 route (city - Woodgate) at the same time and for some reason the City Line number 20 went the 3/103 route down Court Oak Road rather than the WMT route down War Lane and Tennal Road.
I always thought it was odd to have 3 operators on this short route.
Also, in the 90s how many different fares (West Mids region only) did WMT have as it used to cost me 24p as a child on the 103 to the Court Oak Pub but on the 20 it cost 32p to Tennal Road which was a similar distance. I think the maximum child fare was 37p at that time and I think there was a short hop fare too.
Thanks
Your memory is correct to my knowledge. The WMT 20 started at deregulation in Oct 86 and was the WMPTE 15 route Harborne Green Man to Quinton Road West renumbered. In the 90s City Buslines set up a rival 20 that initially followed the same route as the WMT version from Harborne to QRW but I believe also extended to Four Dwellings. It also went beyond the Green Man to City following the route of all the other Harborne corridor routes, except it went via Chad Road and Hagley Road instead of Harborne Road to Five Ways. At the same time City Buslines also introduced the 3 City to Woodgate Valley North.
WMT retaliated by extending their 20 to the City Centre, and extending the 10 to Four Dwellings and also copying the City Buslines 20 by diverting it via Ivy Bush and Hagley Road to Five Ways.
City Buslines then changed their 20 to follow the route of the 3 along Court Oak Road from Harborne, instead of War Lane and Tennal Road.
My memory gets a bit vague at this point but WMT turned up the heat by introducing the C20 using Central Liner vehicles. Between the Green Man and City this went via Nursery Road, Norfolk Road, Hagley Road and Bath Row. Because the left turn at the Green Man isn't possible in a bus, the C20 went via Harborne Road, sharp left into Kingscote Road, right onto Nursery Road inbound.
I remember being surprised by the volume and mixed bag of buses using Tennal Road at the time.
The C20 was short lived.
I'm sure Justin Tyme can provide dates and put me right on any inaccuracies in the above.
Quote from: Mike K on December 11, 2013, 07:36:13 PM
Quote from: j789 on December 11, 2013, 05:15:26 PM
Can anyone confirm if my memory is correct of the old 20 route Quinton to Green Man/City?
At one stage in the 90s were there 3 operators on this route - WMT, Central and City line (green/white Nationals?) I seem to recall that City Line also ran a number 3 route (city - Woodgate) at the same time and for some reason the City Line number 20 went the 3/103 route down Court Oak Road rather than the WMT route down War Lane and Tennal Road.
I always thought it was odd to have 3 operators on this short route.
Also, in the 90s how many different fares (West Mids region only) did WMT have as it used to cost me 24p as a child on the 103 to the Court Oak Pub but on the 20 it cost 32p to Tennal Road which was a similar distance. I think the maximum child fare was 37p at that time and I think there was a short hop fare too.
Thanks
Your memory is correct to my knowledge. The WMT 20 started at deregulation in Oct 86 and was the WMPTE 15 route Harborne Green Man to Quinton Road West renumbered. In the 90s City Buslines set up a rival 20 that initially followed the same route as the WMT version from Harborne to QRW but I believe also extended to Four Dwellings. It also went beyond the Green Man to City following the route of all the other Harborne corridor routes, except it went via Chad Road and Hagley Road instead of Harborne Road to Five Ways. At the same time City Buslines also introduced the 3 City to Woodgate Valley North.
WMT retaliated by extending their 20 to the City Centre, and extending the 10 to Four Dwellings and also copying the City Buslines 20 by diverting it via Ivy Bush and Hagley Road to Five Ways.
City Buslines then changed their 20 to follow the route of the 3 along Court Oak Road from Harborne, instead of War Lane and Tennal Road.
My memory gets a bit vague at this point but WMT turned up the heat by introducing the C20 using Central Liner vehicles. Between the Green Man and City this went via Nursery Road, Norfolk Road, Hagley Road and Bath Row. Because the left turn at the Green Man isn't possible in a bus, the C20 went via Harborne Road, sharp left into Kingscote Road, right onto Nursery Road inbound.
I remember being surprised by the volume and mixed bag of buses using Tennal Road at the time.
The C20 was short lived.
I'm sure Justin Tyme can provide dates and put me right on any inaccuracies in the above.
I remember all of that kicking off on the Harborne corridors. Did BCC come afterwards on the 22/23?
I don't recall BCC on the 22/23 other than possibly some early Sunday tendered journeys but I may be wrong. BCC / Diamond Bus did operate on the 103 to Four Dwellings (incorrectly spelt Ford Dwellings) for a while.
City Buslines also operated some peak journeys on the 22, using primarily Metroriders.
It was a great shame when City Buslines went out of business, friendly drivers and well presented buses. I always tried to use their 20 when it served Tennal Road.
The 90s was an interesting era for the Harborne routes as at various points you also had the Little Red Bus company operating the B29 (identical to the 29) and if I recall correctly the B22, and BCC operating the 21A using brand new Mercedes minibuses. Central Liner also operated a short version of the 29 (the C29?) between Harborne and Northfield via Weoley Castle using Iveco minibuses.
BCC with new merc minis? Would love to see a picture of that.
Pete's ran the 22 for a while as well didn't they?
Thanks for the replies.
Harborne was a bit of a Leyland National spotters paradise in the 90s with Central, City buslines, as well as Ludlows and Falcon on the 11 route all using them. Did Quinton garage ever run Nationals as I do not recall ever catching a WMT one in Harborne?
Quote from: j789 on December 11, 2013, 10:32:11 PM
Thanks for the replies.
Harborne was a bit of a Leyland National spotters paradise in the 90s with Central, City buslines, as well as Ludlows and Falcon on the 11 route all using them. Did Quinton garage ever run Nationals as I do not recall ever catching a WMT one in Harborne?
Quote from: DiamondDart on December 11, 2013, 10:07:52 PM
BCC with new merc minis? Would love to see a picture of that.
Pete's ran the 22 for a while as well didn't they?
I'm pretty sure BCC acquired a batch of Merc 609D's that were used on the 22/23 in 1992/3? Can't remember the registrations of them to double check.
Pete's also competed on the 22 with Volvo Citybuses, I think the 22 survived in to Go-Ahead ownership
No Quinton Garage has never operated Leyland Nationals to my knowledge
Quote from: j789 on December 11, 2013, 10:32:11 PM
Thanks for the replies.
Harborne was a bit of a Leyland National spotters paradise in the 90s with Central, City buslines, as well as Ludlows and Falcon on the 11 route all using them. Did Quinton garage ever run Nationals as I do not recall ever catching a WMT one in Harborne?
No. As far as I know the only single deckers QN ran were 1956 (the baseball bat / Hovis as I've heard it called) and Leyland Lynxs. 1211 to 1230 were originally new to QN and 1126-33 / 40 transferred when Dudley closed.
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 10:37:57 PM
Quote from: j789 on December 11, 2013, 10:32:11 PM
Thanks for the replies.
Harborne was a bit of a Leyland National spotters paradise in the 90s with Central, City buslines, as well as Ludlows and Falcon on the 11 route all using them. Did Quinton garage ever run Nationals as I do not recall ever catching a WMT one in Harborne?
Quote from: DiamondDart on December 11, 2013, 10:07:52 PM
BCC with new merc minis? Would love to see a picture of that.
Pete's ran the 22 for a while as well didn't they?
I'm pretty sure BCC acquired a batch of Merc 609D's that were used on the 22/23 in 1992/3? Can't remember the registrations of them to double check.
Pete's also competed on the 22 with Volvo Citybuses, I think the 22 survived in to Go-Ahead ownership
No Quinton Garage has never operated Leyland Nationals to my knowledge
Yes I do remember the Pete's Citybuses on the 22 Winston. I don't remember the Mercs on the 22/23 though, I only recall BCC Merc minibuses on the 21A but I was in my early 20s back then and drinking and partying so it's all a bit of a blur. I tried to find some pictures but can't.
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 10:37:57 PM
Quote from: j789 on December 11, 2013, 10:32:11 PM
Thanks for the replies.
Harborne was a bit of a Leyland National spotters paradise in the 90s with Central, City buslines, as well as Ludlows and Falcon on the 11 route all using them. Did Quinton garage ever run Nationals as I do not recall ever catching a WMT one in Harborne?
Quote from: DiamondDart on December 11, 2013, 10:07:52 PM
BCC with new merc minis? Would love to see a picture of that.
Pete's ran the 22 for a while as well didn't they?
I'm pretty sure BCC acquired a batch of Merc 609D's that were used on the 22/23 in 1992/3? Can't remember the registrations of them to double check.
Pete's also competed on the 22 with Volvo Citybuses, I think the 22 survived in to Go-Ahead ownership
No Quinton Garage has never operated Leyland Nationals to my knowledge
Yeah think you're right it definitely survived into go ahead ownership with those citybuses... Must be some of the worst looking buses to have ever run in the west midlands.
Quote from: Mike K on December 11, 2013, 10:44:39 PM
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 10:37:57 PM
Quote from: j789 on December 11, 2013, 10:32:11 PM
Thanks for the replies.
Harborne was a bit of a Leyland National spotters paradise in the 90s with Central, City buslines, as well as Ludlows and Falcon on the 11 route all using them. Did Quinton garage ever run Nationals as I do not recall ever catching a WMT one in Harborne?
Quote from: DiamondDart on December 11, 2013, 10:07:52 PM
BCC with new merc minis? Would love to see a picture of that.
Pete's ran the 22 for a while as well didn't they?
I'm pretty sure BCC acquired a batch of Merc 609D's that were used on the 22/23 in 1992/3? Can't remember the registrations of them to double check.
Pete's also competed on the 22 with Volvo Citybuses, I think the 22 survived in to Go-Ahead ownership
No Quinton Garage has never operated Leyland Nationals to my knowledge
Yes I do remember the Pete's Citybuses on the 22 Winston. I don't remember the Mercs on the 22/23 though, I only recall BCC Merc minibuses on the 21A but I was in my early 20s back then and drinking and partying so it's all a bit of a blur. I tried to find some pictures but can't.
Mike you obviously didn't drink enough back then as your memory has survived better than mine. It was the 21A BCC used them on, I thought there was another route as well, as I seem to remember there were 8-10 Merc minis @ BCC
Found a few pics to go with the topic of conversation, can't find any BCC Merc minis though....
City Buslines:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5374075352/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4930676728/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4561078845/
Central Liner:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4930620794/
Such an interesting period of time.... shame I didn't see much of it.... The limits of my memory are BCC nationals on the 9, ludlows nationals on the 002, some travel merry hill stuff, H.. LOM scanias, lynxes and the introduction of b6s on the 44. Plus remember pattersons as well. And midland red west in the black country.
Can't believe there used to be an X64 to Corby though... would have loved to have had a ride on that...
Quote from: DiamondDart on December 11, 2013, 11:28:36 PM
Such an interesting period of time.... shame I didn't see much of it.... The limits of my memory are BCC nationals on the 9, ludlows nationals on the 002, some travel merry hill stuff, H.. LOM scanias, lynxes and the introduction of b6s on the 44. Plus remember pattersons as well. And midland red west in the black country.
Can't believe there used to be an X64 to Corby though... would have loved to have had a ride on that...
The early 90's was far more interesting than now, for the variety of competing operators & vehicle types, numerous WMT takeovers / garage closures etc
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 11:22:55 PM
Quote from: Mike K on December 11, 2013, 10:44:39 PM
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 10:37:57 PM
Quote from: j789 on December 11, 2013, 10:32:11 PM
Thanks for the replies.
Harborne was a bit of a Leyland National spotters paradise in the 90s with Central, City buslines, as well as Ludlows and Falcon on the 11 route all using them. Did Quinton garage ever run Nationals as I do not recall ever catching a WMT one in Harborne?
Quote from: DiamondDart on December 11, 2013, 10:07:52 PM
BCC with new merc minis? Would love to see a picture of that.
Pete's ran the 22 for a while as well didn't they?
I'm pretty sure BCC acquired a batch of Merc 609D's that were used on the 22/23 in 1992/3? Can't remember the registrations of them to double check.
Pete's also competed on the 22 with Volvo Citybuses, I think the 22 survived in to Go-Ahead ownership
No Quinton Garage has never operated Leyland Nationals to my knowledge
Yes I do remember the Pete's Citybuses on the 22 Winston. I don't remember the Mercs on the 22/23 though, I only recall BCC Merc minibuses on the 21A but I was in my early 20s back then and drinking and partying so it's all a bit of a blur. I tried to find some pictures but can't.
Mike you obviously didn't drink enough back then as your memory has survived better than mine. It was the 21A BCC used them on, I thought there was another route as well, as I seem to remember there were 8-10 Merc minis @ BCC
Found a few pics to go with the topic of conversation, can't find any BCC Merc minis though....
City Buslines:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5374075352/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4930676728/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4561078845/
Central Liner:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4930620794/
Cheers Winston. Love the hi-tech destination equipment on 1505.
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 11:41:10 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on December 11, 2013, 11:28:36 PM
Such an interesting period of time.... shame I didn't see much of it.... The limits of my memory are BCC nationals on the 9, ludlows nationals on the 002, some travel merry hill stuff, H.. LOM scanias, lynxes and the introduction of b6s on the 44. Plus remember pattersons as well. And midland red west in the black country.
Can't believe there used to be an X64 to Corby though... would have loved to have had a ride on that...
The early 90's was far more interesting than now, for the variety of competing operators & vehicle types, numerous WMT takeovers / garage closures etc
Ha, imagine if this forum was around back then... every topic will be like the Pensnett Thread!!!
Anyone remember the 44S, 44T etc in detail? (Without cheating ;) )
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 11:22:55 PM
Quote from: Mike K on December 11, 2013, 10:44:39 PM
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 10:37:57 PM
Quote from: j789 on December 11, 2013, 10:32:11 PM
Thanks for the replies.
Harborne was a bit of a Leyland National spotters paradise in the 90s with Central, City buslines, as well as Ludlows and Falcon on the 11 route all using them. Did Quinton garage ever run Nationals as I do not recall ever catching a WMT one in Harborne?
Quote from: DiamondDart on December 11, 2013, 10:07:52 PM
BCC with new merc minis? Would love to see a picture of that.
Pete's ran the 22 for a while as well didn't they?
I'm pretty sure BCC acquired a batch of Merc 609D's that were used on the 22/23 in 1992/3? Can't remember the registrations of them to double check.
Pete's also competed on the 22 with Volvo Citybuses, I think the 22 survived in to Go-Ahead ownership
No Quinton Garage has never operated Leyland Nationals to my knowledge
Yes I do remember the Pete's Citybuses on the 22 Winston. I don't remember the Mercs on the 22/23 though, I only recall BCC Merc minibuses on the 21A but I was in my early 20s back then and drinking and partying so it's all a bit of a blur. I tried to find some pictures but can't.
Mike you obviously didn't drink enough back then as your memory has survived better than mine. It was the 21A BCC used them on, I thought there was another route as well, as I seem to remember there were 8-10 Merc minis @ BCC
Found a few pics to go with the topic of conversation, can't find any BCC Merc minis though....
City Buslines:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5374075352/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4930676728/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4561078845/
Central Liner:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4930620794/
The Mercs were K25-29, 31, 32WND and it looks like all of them ended up with Luton & District. They did not last very long at all with Birmingham Coach Co!
Quote from: Liverpool Street on December 12, 2013, 03:40:06 PM
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 11:41:10 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on December 11, 2013, 11:28:36 PM
Such an interesting period of time.... shame I didn't see much of it.... The limits of my memory are BCC nationals on the 9, ludlows nationals on the 002, some travel merry hill stuff, H.. LOM scanias, lynxes and the introduction of b6s on the 44. Plus remember pattersons as well. And midland red west in the black country.
Can't believe there used to be an X64 to Corby though... would have loved to have had a ride on that...
The early 90's was far more interesting than now, for the variety of competing operators & vehicle types, numerous WMT takeovers / garage closures etc
Ha, imagine if this forum was around back then... every topic will be like the Pensnett Thread!!!
Anyone remember the 44S, 44T etc in detail? (Without cheating ;) )
Lots of operators, so lots of colours, but not much vehicle variety. TWM were almost all National/Lynx/Fleetline/Metrobus while every other operator seemed to be Leyland Nationals. Petes was about the only non-National fleet
Quote from: Liverpool Street on December 12, 2013, 03:40:06 PM
Anyone remember the 44S, 44T etc in detail? (Without cheating ;) )
Depends what you mean by "in detail"... Off the top of me head the daytime services were 44S and 44T every half hour each, from Stephenson st/Navigation st via Bath Row, Edgbaston Park Rd, University, Vincent Drive, Selly Oak, Bristol Road, Weoley Castle, current 29 route to Northfield, South Rd (maybe?) to Northfield station, current 27 route to Turves Green then 44T to Thurlbridge rd(?) and 44S via Longbridge station and Bristol Road South to Great Park. 44 was as above but only to Northfield station, 44B as per 44 but using Broad St instead of Bath Row
To be confirmed by looking at the maps I've got when I get home
Yep, 44T to Thurlstone Road (basically very near the old 47 Sunday terminus)
Quote from: Tony on December 12, 2013, 04:10:38 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on December 12, 2013, 03:40:06 PM
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 11:41:10 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on December 11, 2013, 11:28:36 PM
Such an interesting period of time.... shame I didn't see much of it.... The limits of my memory are BCC nationals on the 9, ludlows nationals on the 002, some travel merry hill stuff, H.. LOM scanias, lynxes and the introduction of b6s on the 44. Plus remember pattersons as well. And midland red west in the black country.
Can't believe there used to be an X64 to Corby though... would have loved to have had a ride on that...
The early 90's was far more interesting than now, for the variety of competing operators & vehicle types, numerous WMT takeovers / garage closures etc
Ha, imagine if this forum was around back then... every topic will be like the Pensnett Thread!!!
Anyone remember the 44S, 44T etc in detail? (Without cheating ;) )
Lots of operators, so lots of colours, but not much vehicle variety. TWM were almost all National/Lynx/Fleetline/Metrobus while every other operator seemed to be Leyland Nationals. Petes was about the only non-National fleet
A large proportion of competing operators favoured Leyland Nationals, but there were still quite a few minibuses i.e. Metroriders & Mercs within the WMT fleet plus still some Iveco Daily's in the early nineties. Stevensons operated a varied fleet until takeover by WMT of breadvans and some more unusual larger bus types. Also Sandwell Travel had some unusual buses within their fleet. BCC & Yourbus operated DAF/Ikarus & Yourbus also have Optare Delta's along with the Ikarus, Yourbus also had the Leyland Tigers & Volvo B10M Plaxton Derwents. I can't remember when Claribels stopped using coaches on their services and started switching to buses i.e DAF/Optare Delta's
PET ran on 22 in between school duties for King Edwards, Bartley Green.
Remember in the early days of deregulation, when Midland Red West operated a lot of routes on Sundays, some just for early morning journeys. If i remember right, even the 9 was operated by MTW on Sunday mornings?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 12, 2013, 08:15:46 PM
Remember in the early days of deregulation, when Midland Red West operated a lot of routes on Sundays, some just for early morning journeys. If i remember right, even the 9 was operated by MTW on Sunday mornings?
I can remember from my childhood Midland Red West buses running early morning and evening journeys on the 120, as well as Sundays.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 12, 2013, 08:15:46 PM
Remember in the early days of deregulation, when Midland Red West operated a lot of routes on Sundays, some just for early morning journeys. If i remember right, even the 9 was operated by MTW on Sunday mornings?
MRW used to operate a lot of the night bus routes. The 9N was always fun with a Lance/Verde
A lot of copies of their guides are still around-MRW were pioneers in it. Unfortunately if you look at them the network seems incredibly disparate. Gives you all their routes and they seem such a good, professional operator making guides even for tendered routes.
Anyone remember Patterson's coaches on a different topic?
Just found out my MRW timetable book out for 1987 and it does show some interesting workings. Many early morning/late evening journeys and Sunday services were operated by MRW, Plus they had a number of services which they operated all day including :-
131 Birmingham to Halesowen
233 Halesowen to Brierley Hill (peak Hour journeys extended to Dudley)
278/88 Stourbridge to Wolverhampton via Kinver, Enville, Bobbington, Halfpenny Green & Siesdon.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 12, 2013, 08:46:12 PM
Just found out my MRW timetable book out for 1987 and it does show some interesting workings. Many early morning/late evening journeys and Sunday services were operated by MRW, Plus they had a number of services which they operated all day including :-
131 Birmingham to Halesowen
233 Halesowen to Brierley Hill (peak Hour journeys extended to Dudley)
278/88 Stourbridge to Wolverhampton via Kinver, Enville, Bobbington, Halfpenny Green & Siesdon.
I always thought that the 131 & 132 operated through to Hasbury. But can't remember if that was pre 1986 WMPTE or WMT
They operated even more stuff by 1994/5 didn't they? I would say though that MRW is possibly one of if not the smartest operator the WM has seen in a long time
My 1984 WMT book shows 131/2 going from Birmingham to Hasbury, however by 1987 the 131 appears to have been curtailed to Halesowen and the 132 withdrawn.
there is however a 218 service from Halesowen to Hasbury/Hayley Green hourly Monday to Saturday
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 12, 2013, 08:55:15 PM
My 1984 WMT book shows 131/2 going from Birmingham to Hasbury, however by 1987 the 131 appears to have been curtailed to Halesowen and the 132 withdrawn.
there is however a 218 service from Halesowen to Hasbury/Hayley Green hourly Monday to Saturday
Thanks Stu, don't remember the 218 at all.
Quote from: Winston on December 12, 2013, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 12, 2013, 08:55:15 PM
My 1984 WMT book shows 131/2 going from Birmingham to Hasbury, however by 1987 the 131 appears to have been curtailed to Halesowen and the 132 withdrawn.
there is however a 218 service from Halesowen to Hasbury/Hayley Green hourly Monday to Saturday
Thanks Stu, don't remember the 218 at all.
What line of route does it take Stu?
Quote from: nitromatt1 on December 12, 2013, 10:02:40 PM
Quote from: Winston on December 12, 2013, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 12, 2013, 08:55:15 PM
My 1984 WMT book shows 131/2 going from Birmingham to Hasbury, however by 1987 the 131 appears to have been curtailed to Halesowen and the 132 withdrawn.
there is however a 218 service from Halesowen to Hasbury/Hayley Green hourly Monday to Saturday
Thanks Stu, don't remember the 218 at all.
What line of route does it take Stu?
I remember the 218 vividly. Seem to remember it terminated at Hayley Park Road - there used to be a MRW flag on the roundabout many years after the 218 stopped. Did it not use Bassenage Road, Alexandra Road and Church Croft to and from town?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 12, 2013, 08:15:46 PM
Remember in the early days of deregulation, when Midland Red West operated a lot of routes on Sundays, some just for early morning journeys. If i remember right, even the 9 was operated by MTW on Sunday mornings?
Yes, MRW ran the 9 on Sundays.
I also remember the ran some journeys on:
5 Birmingham - Widney Manor
7 Birmingham - Perry Common
8 Inner Circle
9 Birmingham - Halesowen - Stourbridge
18 Bartley Green - Yardley Wood
22 Birmingham - Kitwell
23 Birmingham - Woodgate
35 Birmingham - Hawkesley
60 Birmingham - Cranes Park
137 Birmingham - Gornal Wood
900 Birmingham - Coventry
There are loads of others which I can't remember. Can't believe I didn't keep my old MRW timetable booklets when I moved out!
Quote from: sonic84 on December 12, 2013, 10:20:22 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on December 12, 2013, 10:02:40 PM
Quote from: Winston on December 12, 2013, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 12, 2013, 08:55:15 PM
My 1984 WMT book shows 131/2 going from Birmingham to Hasbury, however by 1987 the 131 appears to have been curtailed to Halesowen and the 132 withdrawn.
there is however a 218 service from Halesowen to Hasbury/Hayley Green hourly Monday to Saturday
Thanks Stu, don't remember the 218 at all.
What line of route does it take Stu?
I remember the 218 vividly. Seem to remember it terminated at Hayley Park Road - there used to be a MRW flag on the roundabout many years after the 218 stopped. Did it not use Bassenage Road, Alexandra Road and Church Croft to and from town?
Maybe that's why I don't remember it then as I never came you Dunstall Road. I remember in WMPTE days when they ran the 417 and terminated it at Hayley Green and it was regularly operated by Volvo Alisa's from Oldbury garage
Here's a selection of photos of some of the old routes mentioned, if anyone is interested:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8715481296/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8723174817/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8723176941/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8715540240/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8717993134/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8716925375/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8717050619/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8717137267/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8717258803/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8717303107/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8726527824/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/6526443761/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/8729146566/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/6527511127/in/set-72157627689387012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/6530487891/in/set-72157627689387012
Quote from: sonic84 on December 12, 2013, 10:20:22 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on December 12, 2013, 10:02:40 PM
Quote from: Winston on December 12, 2013, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on December 12, 2013, 08:55:15 PM
My 1984 WMT book shows 131/2 going from Birmingham to Hasbury, however by 1987 the 131 appears to have been curtailed to Halesowen and the 132 withdrawn.
there is however a 218 service from Halesowen to Hasbury/Hayley Green hourly Monday to Saturday
Thanks Stu, don't remember the 218 at all.
What line of route does it take Stu?
I remember the 218 vividly. Seem to remember it terminated at Hayley Park Road - there used to be a MRW flag on the roundabout many years after the 218 stopped. Did it not use Bassenage Road, Alexandra Road and Church Croft to and from town?
Matt, from Halesowen it was via Queensway, Church Croft, Richmond Street, Stourbridge Road, Aleaxandra Road, Elizabeth Rd, High Farm Rd, Bassnage Rd, Rosemary Rd, Hagley Rd, Hayley Park Rd to Causey Farm Road
I remember MRW used to run the weekday early hours night bus next work that used to do 2 corridors in 1 ie. 912 City - Alum Rock - Fox & Goose - C Wood - Castle Vale - Town. I know that's not quite correct but can't remember it in all.
Even before my time, but I'm sure my father would've remembered it..
- BCT Tram route 70. Navigation Street to Rednal - it wasn't uncommon for trams to carry 100 passengers a minute from the city to the suburbs on public holidays. The full journey took 50minutes and cost 5d (2p) in 1924!
- The tram line was in the central reservation of the Bristol Road (and south), and continued to operate until 5th July 1952.
- The modern variation (the 63) still takes 50 minutes end to end and costs £2.
And great fun it too was down the hills.
Quote from: old50niner on December 25, 2013, 06:40:28 PM
And great fun it too was down the hills.
I bet it was.
Shame I missed all the fun - only one generation out.
Maybe in many many years to come that central reservation in Bristol Road could hold another track of some sorts
If "tomorrows world" is correct [POS*] most main roads will be tracked again.
I mean, the reservation is still big enough.
Can I ask, old50niner, how old are you?
A young 68 L.S. and still spotting !
Quote from: old50niner on December 26, 2013, 02:10:21 PM
A young 68 L.S. and still spotting !
By that logic I'm an infant at 63!! (Haha)
They're only numbers. You're as old as you feel ??!!!
Quote from: old50niner on December 26, 2013, 02:17:38 PM
They're only numbers. You're as old as you feel ??!!!
I must be in my late 90's then!
You must've been young to remember the trams then.. about 6 or 7 was you when they were finished?
yeah, was taken by my grandmother to see the last one from brum City. Written in whitewash was ''The last Tram''.
Routes I miss from my childhood are:
15/16 Hamstead to Lea Hall/Garetts Green via City
90 Baldwins Lane to Pheasey via City
92 Monkspath to City
And a couple of NBC routes:
X4 Alder Valley Birmingham to High Wycombe
X50 Birmingham to Oxford
I always persuaded my dad to time our visit to the chippy to coincide with the 2010 departure of the X50 from the Bull Ring Bus Station to Oxford, always a VR.
Happy days!
John
Quote from: old50niner on December 27, 2013, 08:27:05 AM
yeah, was taken by my grandmother to see the last one from brum City. Written in whitewash was ''The last Tram''.
Oh what a picture you've just painted for me. Thanks. I presume your grnadmother was a turn of the century kid or 18xx's?
its nearly the 40th anniversary the old 53 bus route was renumbered 97 and extended to chelmsley wood on the 26th november 1976 operating from coventry road garage , alot of ex midland red fleetlines along side park royals and daimlers were used, at the same time 163 was renumbered 98 and operated from lea hall garage again using daimlers and park royal buses .
General Question(s)
1) Which route did the 80 take going to & from City Centre?
Context: Prior to being rerouted through Ladywood (ie current route) - following the withdrawal of the Crosscity bit of the 66 service? (City Hospital to Star City (& God knows where), via City Centre)
For some reason, I recall it going through Jewellery Quarter (Warstone Lane)? Can anybody shed some light?
2) Does anybody remember anything of the old 7B route? "Who operated it, where did it go" type of general background information
Would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :)
Quote from: clayderman on January 01, 2017, 11:03:29 PM
General Question(s)
1) Which route did the 80 take going to & from City Centre?
Context: Prior to being rerouted through Ladywood (ie current route) - following the withdrawal of the Crosscity bit of the 66 service? (City Hospital to Star City (& God knows where), via City Centre)
For some reason, I recall it going through Jewellery Quarter (Warstone Lane)? Can anybody shed some light?
Down the Dudley Road.
Quote from: 2206 on January 01, 2017, 11:05:39 PM
Down the Dudley Road.
A bit vague... ::)
Let me reword: Where did the 80 go to and from City Centre,
after Dudley Road & Springhill
Quote from: clayderman on January 01, 2017, 11:11:27 PM
A bit vague... ::)
Let me reword: Where did the 80 go to and from City Centre, after Dudley Road & Springhill
Dudley Road, Spring Hill, Summer Hill Road, Sandpits Parade to Paradise Circus
80 did actually run via Jewellery Quarter for a period, but didn't last too long
Thanks. :) Appreciate the help; I thought I was going mad, as I didn't remember it going through JQ for the entirety of the time before it ran through Ladywood. Just brushing up on my old route knowledge, thanks guys. :)
Which 78 do you mean the only one I can think of is the route that was withdrawn and replaced by the 79 to Birmingham if you mean that one not sure who operated it but I think went down Darlaston Road now withdrawn 38 Route then 79 route to West Bromwich then if what my mum told me is correct current 74 Route to Birmingham
If you didn't mean that 78 I can't help you I'm afraid.
Quote from: BusFan94 on January 02, 2017, 10:17:19 AM
Which 78 do you mean the only one I can think of is the route that was withdrawn and replaced by the 79 to Birmingham if you mean that one not sure who operated it but I think went down Darlaston Road now withdrawn 38 Route then 79 route to West Bromwich then if what my mum told me is correct current 74 Route to Birmingham
If you didn't mean that 78 I can't help you I'm afraid.
It was the 7B he was asking about chap, not the 78.
Quote from: clayderman on January 01, 2017, 11:34:30 PM
Thanks. :) Appreciate the help; I thought I was going mad, as I didn't remember it going through JQ for the entirety of the time before it ran through Ladywood. Just brushing up on my old route knowledge, thanks guys. :)
Don't have relevant maps to hand at the moment but from memory I think it went as per 101 route (Newhall Hill to Pitsford st) then carried on round to Western Road to come out by city hospital
I'm intrigued by where the 7B went as ive never heard of it
Quote from: clayderman on January 01, 2017, 11:03:29 PM
2) Does anybody remember anything of the old 7B route? "Who operated it, where did it go" type of general background information
Quote from: Lukeee on January 02, 2017, 10:41:50 PM
I'm intrigued by where the 7B went as ive never heard of it
Was it the Midland Rider service?
Quote from: John on January 03, 2017, 11:55:46 AM
Was it the Midland Rider service?
BCT ran the 7 for years and their short services were lettered A-J I think and it ran from Portland Road to Perry Common possibly as a 5 one side. The 7B would of been a short journey from town to maybe Witton Square or Six ways Aston though I maybe totally wrong and there was a standard 7B route
@Lukeee @John @clayderman run by another bus company
Quote from: Squiz1971 on January 03, 2017, 02:55:03 PM
BCT ran the 7 for years and their short services were lettered A-J I think and it ran from Portland Road to Perry Common possibly as a 5 one side. The 7B would of been a short journey from town to maybe Witton Square or Six ways Aston though I maybe totally wrong and there was a standard 7B route @Lukeee @John @clayderman run by another bus company
BCT used letters A-L with every turning point along a route being lettered in turn, normally from the City end of a route. The suffix letter referring to a bus turning in either direction. The 7 was the Portland Road to Perry Common part of the 5/6/7 group of services, so I would imagine 7B would be the secon turning point from the Portland Road end
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2017, 05:50:16 PM
BCT used letters A-L with every turning point along a route being lettered in turn, normally from the City end of a route. The suffix letter referring to a bus turning in either direction. The 7 was the Portland Road to Perry Common part of the 5/6/7 group of services, so I would imagine 7B would be the secon turning point from the Portland Road end
Cheers
@Tony I wasn't fully sure if the letters were A-K/L or as I had put, also I realised after I posted it could also be from the Portland Road end too maybe to the Ivy Bush or 5 Ways depending on the distance each letter represented
Birmingham City Transport letters applied to service 7 (current around 1965/66) were as follows:
7A To Town Hall Only
7B To Five Ways Only
7C To Ivy Bush (Hagley Road) Only
[Source: British Bus Fleets 14 (Ian Allan)]
Here is a service 50K destination example in use, in this case the destination blind shows just "SERVICE EXTRA":
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5274921102/
...and here is the "code list" to identify where a 50K terminated:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/8450547497/in/photolist-dSKgmM-938mgy
Quote from: Walsall1955 on January 03, 2017, 06:42:56 PM
Birmingham City Transport letters applied to service 7 (current around 1965/66) were as follows:
7A To Town Hall Only
7B To Five Ways Only
7C To Ivy Bush (Hagley Road) Only
[Source: British Bus Fleets 14 (Ian Allan)]
Here is a service 50K destination example in use, in this case the destination blind shows just "SERVICE EXTRA":
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5274921102/
...and here is the "code list" to identify where a 50K terminated:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/8450547497/in/photolist-dSKgmM-938mgy
In reply to the comment about suffix letters on the 11, I don't think they were used on there until A, C, E, N, S, W replaced A-L
A question for
@Tony , is it still possible for a SERVICE EXTRA to operate or does everything have to be timetabled?
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2017, 06:52:50 PM
In reply to the comment about suffix letters on the 11, I don't think they were used on there until A, C, E, N, S, W replaced A-L
That is correct, and also applied to the 8 Inner Circle. Short workings on both services simply showed blank number blinds. Sometimes buses could appear showing SERVICE EXTRA (probably because the destination was not on the blinds) and no numbers, which wasn't very helpful!
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on January 03, 2017, 07:04:50 PM
A question for @Tony , is it still possible for a SERVICE EXTRA to operate or does everything have to be timetabled?
In BCT days they did regularly
Nowadays, they can only operate within 5 minutes of a scheduled departure, and there must be a proven demand for it. You are not allowed just to put a duplicate out 5 minutes after a service bus to annoy another operator, it must be required by passenger demand.
That is how the V Festival service works. It is a registered 15 minute frequency, so those buses run however many passengers are on them, but extras slot in between if a bus doesn't clear the waiting queue.
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2017, 07:23:09 PM
In BCT days they did regularly
Nowadays, they can only operate within 5 minutes of a scheduled departure, and there must be a proven demand for it. You are not allowed just to put a duplicate out 5 minutes after a service bus to annoy another operator, it must be required by passenger demand.
That is how the V Festival service works. It is a registered 15 minute frequency, so those buses run however many passengers are on them, but extras slot in between if a bus doesn't clear the waiting queue.
Yes even in the days of the WMPTE, you would see Birmingham littered with Service Extras', but only on former BCT routes, very very rare you would see one on a North District route, although I don't think it was impossible, apart from the fact they didn't have Service Extra on the blind.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on January 03, 2017, 07:39:38 PM
Yes even in the days of the WMPTE, you would see Birmingham littered with Service Extras', but only on former BCT routes, very very rare you would see one on a North District route, although I don't think it was impossible, apart from the fact they didn't have Service Extra on the blind.
There were loads of 'Service Extras' in the North division. North division, especially the old Midland Red garages were forever borrowing South Division buses which were always on Service Extras, and normally with some strange number combination as well, as ex Birmingham buses had two number reels and one letter reel, so for instance the 160 normally showed 16D - SERVICE EXTRA
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2017, 07:50:35 PM
There were loads of 'Service Extras' in the North division. North division, especially the old Midland Red garages were forever borrowing South Division buses which were always on Service Extras, and normally with some strange number combination as well, as ex Birmingham buses had two number reels and one letter reel, so for instance the 160 normally showed 16D - SERVICE EXTRA
Oh right Tony, never realised that.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on January 03, 2017, 07:39:38 PM
Yes even in the days of the WMPTE, you would see Birmingham littered with Service Extras', but only on former BCT routes, very very rare you would see one on a North District route, although I don't think it was impossible, apart from the fact they didn't have Service Extra on the blind.
That's my recollection of North Division in PTE days, extras not operated even if regularly passengers left behind.
Where "SERVICE EXTRA" was sometimes used in North Division was where a borrowed bus (ex BCT garage) couldn't display an accurate destination, so Service Extra would be displayed perhaps adjudged to be slightly better than blank.
Here's a 176 destination display "76T" "SERVICE EXTRA" in WMPTE days...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5400444859/in/photolist-9edG7g-99sGD4-92S7WE-8V4YCd-8ToK2v-8TrJQW-8TrJQS-8ToAme-8T1cSe-8MzA4e-8Lv8Bm-8LrREv-8MGBT9-8MCkVu-8LcCAq-8GqfMh-8GqfMA-8FKRbx-8FNUmm-8FyuYV-8w3GAu-8vTadv-8vGHMh-8uRjPS-8uMTwT-8uc4oF-8LdSD1-8La48D-8LcVgw-8GogUk-8GokNc-8Fp7K3-8F8Xa3-8xQSHX-8w1jpZ-8vZrgr-8w1dac-8u5prD-8u7Wsd-8sfDQr-8saNe5-8qU4KT-8hBoh2-8gLnHN-7ZzWQG-7ZzWQL-8tZoGN-8tHx6V-8gYprC-8gYcVh
Quote from: Walsall1955 on January 03, 2017, 07:56:38 PM
Here's a 176 destination display "76T" "SERVICE EXTRA" in WMPTE days...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5400444859/in/photolist-9edG7g-99sGD4-92S7WE-8V4YCd-8ToK2v-8TrJQW-8TrJQS-8ToAme-8T1cSe-8MzA4e-8Lv8Bm-8LrREv-8MGBT9-8MCkVu-8LcCAq-8GqfMh-8GqfMA-8FKRbx-8FNUmm-8FyuYV-8w3GAu-8vTadv-8vGHMh-8uRjPS-8uMTwT-8uc4oF-8LdSD1-8La48D-8LcVgw-8GogUk-8GokNc-8Fp7K3-8F8Xa3-8xQSHX-8w1jpZ-8vZrgr-8w1dac-8u5prD-8u7Wsd-8sfDQr-8saNe5-8qU4KT-8hBoh2-8gLnHN-7ZzWQG-7ZzWQL-8tZoGN-8tHx6V-8gYprC-8gYcVh
That is rare in the fact that most ex BCT buses didn't have any letters after L on the blinds. L slightly too low was the more normal substitute for a 1
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2017, 07:23:09 PM
In BCT days they did regularly
Nowadays, they can only operate within 5 minutes of a scheduled departure, and there must be a proven demand for it. You are not allowed just to put a duplicate out 5 minutes after a service bus to annoy another operator, it must be required by passenger demand.
That is how the V Festival service works. It is a registered 15 minute frequency, so those buses run however many passengers are on them, but extras slot in between if a bus doesn't clear the waiting queue.
Would it be possible to register another service with a different route number along the same route to get around this or would that still not be allowed?
Quote from: j789 on January 03, 2017, 08:14:39 PM
Would it be possible to register another service with a different route number along the same route to get around this or would that still not be allowed?
But you've still got to run to the registered time, so you might as well just add those journies on the original registration. Duplicating within 5 minutes is the only way to run extras when you don't actually know beforehand if a journey is going to be required
Rather off topic so I apologise but do you think NXWM would ever run the 50A to Wythall during the day as well as peaks. One bus an hour missing out Driuds Heath and going straight over the Maypole to Wythall wouldn't make much difference surely and could attract some new passengers too as even the train isn't that much quicker into the city from there.
Quote from: Tony on January 03, 2017, 07:23:09 PM
Nowadays, they can only operate within 5 minutes of a scheduled departure, and there must be a proven demand for it. You are not allowed just to put a duplicate out 5 minutes after a service bus to annoy another operator, it must be required by passenger demand.
Would it have to be registered? Say if the 126 got screwed between Dudley and Birmingham, no 126 due into wolves for over 35-40 mins would they then be allowed to operate one? Obviously a hypothetical situation.
Quote from: Dom on January 03, 2017, 08:29:01 PM
Would it have to be registered? Say if the 126 got screwed between Dudley and Birmingham, no 126 due into wolves for over 35-40 mins would they then be allowed to operate one? Obviously a hypothetical situation.
That's just running a timetabled journey with a different bus! DVSA don't care what bus runs what journey
Quote from: j789 on January 03, 2017, 08:27:20 PM
Rather off topic so I apologise but do you think NXWM would ever run the 50A to Wythall during the day as well as peaks. One bus an hour missing out Driuds Heath and going straight over the Maypole to Wythall wouldn't make much difference surely and could attract some new passengers too as even the train isn't that much quicker into the city from there.
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be enough trade to make it worthwhile. Johnsons 150 now runs hourly and Diamond S3W provides an hourly (if indirect) link from Wythall to Solihull. Wythall is a mainly quite affluent area and I cannot see it generating more than a handful of passengers.
When Smiths' Your Bus started almost 30 years ago, morning and evening peak through buses between Alcester and Birmingham did good trade through Wythall, but even they didn't really bother off-peak.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on January 03, 2017, 08:47:23 PM
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be enough trade to make it worthwhile. Johnsons 150 now runs hourly and Diamond S3W provides an hourly (if indirect) link from Wythall to Solihull. Wythall is a mainly quite affluent area and I cannot see it generating more than a handful of passengers.
When Smiths' Your Bus started almost 30 years ago, morning and evening peak through buses between Alcester and Birmingham did good trade through Wythall, but even they didn't really bother off-peak.
Fair enough, I just thought with the frequency being so high, one bus taken from Druids Heath could run to Wythall instead. I guess apart from School children and pensioners they probably isn't much call for it. It is a shame as it is a sizeable area with areas of social housing so potential passengers are there.
Quote from: Walsall1955 on January 03, 2017, 07:56:38 PM
Here's a 176 destination display "76T" "SERVICE EXTRA" in WMPTE days...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5400444859/in/photolist-9edG7g-99sGD4-92S7WE-8V4YCd-8ToK2v-8TrJQW-8TrJQS-8ToAme-8T1cSe-8MzA4e-8Lv8Bm-8LrREv-8MGBT9-8MCkVu-8LcCAq-8GqfMh-8GqfMA-8FKRbx-8FNUmm-8FyuYV-8w3GAu-8vTadv-8vGHMh-8uRjPS-8uMTwT-8uc4oF-8LdSD1-8La48D-8LcVgw-8GogUk-8GokNc-8Fp7K3-8F8Xa3-8xQSHX-8w1jpZ-8vZrgr-8w1dac-8u5prD-8u7Wsd-8sfDQr-8saNe5-8qU4KT-8hBoh2-8gLnHN-7ZzWQG-7ZzWQL-8tZoGN-8tHx6V-8gYprC-8gYcVh
That's a cracking picture. Never realised any of these made it onto the 176 (the X2 for the younger members of the site). That Bull Ring bus station was a grim place.
Quote from: Mike K on January 03, 2017, 10:52:09 PM
That's a cracking picture. Never realised any of these made it onto the 176 (the X2 for the younger members of the site). That Bull Ring bus station was a grim place.
It certainly was dark, full of diesel fumes and always seemed to have puddles dotted around from the leaky roof
Quote from: Dom on January 03, 2017, 08:29:01 PM
Would it have to be registered? Say if the 126 got screwed between Dudley and Birmingham, no 126 due into wolves for over 35-40 mins would they then be allowed to operate one? Obviously a hypothetical situation.
Duplicates are often run on the 11. I've been a duplicate and have been duplicated.
Buses often get duplicated when there's a football match on at villa. If I'm on the 11C, and I'm the bus that's passing just as everyone is leaving, and if I'm due to come off when I get back in AG, you often get told to run as an E to Acocks Green village and run dead back to Garage.
Quote from: Squiz1971 on January 04, 2017, 01:26:03 PM
It certainly was dark, full of diesel fumes and always seemed to have puddles dotted around from the leaky roof
I remember going to the Midland Red office in there & before that, catching the old 158 back to Bloxwich.
Quote from: Squiz1971 on January 04, 2017, 01:26:03 PM
It certainly was dark, full of diesel fumes and always seemed to have puddles dotted around from the leaky roof
It certainly was this depressing...however for the young bus enthusiast like me in the late 1970s it was a fascinating place..coming out of the Bull Ring market to get the buses along the Hagley Road & seeing D9's on the 110, Oxford Bristol VRs on the X50, Midland Red fleetlines in red, ex harpers fleetlines on the 853, Walsall VRs on the 357/358 as they were then not to mention the plethora of WMPTE buses from various garages and the smattering of Midland Reds......happy days!
Quote from: Pete50492 on January 05, 2017, 08:02:13 AM
It certainly was this depressing...however for the young bus enthusiast like me in the late 1970s it was a fascinating place..coming out of the Bull Ring market to get the buses along the Hagley Road & seeing D9's on the 110, Oxford Bristol VRs on the X50, Midland Red fleetlines in red, ex harpers fleetlines on the 853, Walsall VRs on the 357/358 as they were then not to mention the plethora of WMPTE buses from various garages and the smattering of Midland Reds......happy days!
Not forgetting the iconic Volvo Ailsa's screaming their way out on their way to Dudley and the suburbs. Yes in those hazy days there was a plethora of different bus styles from the different companies with a stunning array of colour schemes some good & some questionable too, for those old enough to remember the good old days of WMPTE MR and the like
Quote from: Squiz1971 on January 05, 2017, 03:59:37 PM
Not forgetting the iconic Volvo Ailsa's screaming their way out on their way to Dudley and the suburbs. Yes in those hazy days there was a plethora of different bus styles from the different companies with a stunning array of colour schemes some good & some questionable too, for those old enough to remember the good old days of WMPTE MR and the like
Lol! Ironic really me omitting the Ailsa's. Where I grew up the old 221 service ran along the top of our road & was the route to school. Its regular allocation was two of the splendid Ailsas from OY's 4738-4767 batch with their characteristic screaming engine! Regular transport to school for me, I loved those buses.
Quote from: Pete50492 on January 05, 2017, 08:02:13 AM
It certainly was this depressing...however for the young bus enthusiast like me in the late 1970s it was a fascinating place..coming out of the Bull Ring market to get the buses along the Hagley Road & seeing D9's on the 110, Oxford Bristol VRs on the X50, Midland Red fleetlines in red, ex harpers fleetlines on the 853, Walsall VRs on the 357/358 as they were then not to mention the plethora of WMPTE buses from various garages and the smattering of Midland Reds......happy days!
Couldn't agree more Pete. And the sheer number of different types of WMPTE Fleetlines of various ages from different divisions and with different bodies added to the variety. I guess it's partly because I'm now in my forties but I can't summons much enthusiasm for the plethora of Geminis and E400s these days.
Quote from: Mike K on January 05, 2017, 07:06:27 PM
Couldn't agree more Pete. And the sheer number of different types of WMPTE Fleetlines of various ages from different divisions and with different bodies added to the variety. I guess it's partly because I'm now in my forties but I can't summons much enthusiasm for the plethora of Geminis and E400s these days.
I know what you mean as a 70's baby myself
@Mike K. As I enjoy going to Wythall for that very reason to see the array of BCT & WMPTE's finest buses with the smattering of Midland Red, and the other municipalities that formed WMPTE back in 69. Today's buses lack the character of the Fleetlines (All body styles from MCW to NC) and the Metrobuses plus the Nationals & Swifts not that I rode any of the AEC Swifts, same with the Ailsa's the first time I ever rode 1 was at Wythall in the form of 4738. Great days of yesteryear in WMPTE & WMT days saved for prosperity at Aston Manor & Wythall
My all time favourite Ailsa journey - Birmingham New to Leicester rail replacement non-stop, via A38M, M6, M69 on 5th May 1985.
It was 4776 and boy did it scream on the motorway!
Does anyone have any info on the old 611 'Holford Hopper' service?
I have an acquired photo of Solo 308 with 'Holford Hopper' Branding, looks like it ran from Perry Barr to Witton via Holford Industural Estate looking at the branding. The via blind says 'via Witton' so I was wondering if it went further or that blind is up in error
2000 is wrote on the back, I assume the year the photo was taken
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 11:22:55 PM
I'm pretty sure BCC acquired a batch of Merc 609D's that were used on the 22/23 in 1992/3? Can't remember the registrations of them to double check.
Pete's also competed on the 22 with Volvo Citybuses, I think the 22 survived in to Go-Ahead ownership
No Quinton Garage has never operated Leyland Nationals to my knowledge
Yes I do remember the Pete's Citybuses on the 22 Winston. I don't remember the Mercs on the 22/23 though, I only recall BCC Merc minibuses on the 21A but I was in my early 20s back then and drinking and partying so it's all a bit of a blur. I tried to find some pictures but can't.
Mike you obviously didn't drink enough back then as your memory has survived better than mine. It was the 21A BCC used them on, I thought there was another route as well, as I seem to remember there were 8-10 Merc minis @ BCC
Found a few pics to go with the topic of conversation, can't find any BCC Merc minis though....
Photo on my flicr site stanjack
Quote from: old50niner on December 02, 2013, 06:04:52 PM
Miller Street 66 service from B'ham city centre to Hansons Bridge Road, Pype Hayes.
If memory serves was a victim of the service cuts of 1980
Quote from: Solo1 on February 12, 2017, 08:54:08 PM
Quote from: Winston on December 11, 2013, 11:22:55 PM
I'm pretty sure BCC acquired a batch of Merc 609D's that were used on the 22/23 in 1992/3? Can't remember the registrations of them to double check.
Pete's also competed on the 22 with Volvo Citybuses, I think the 22 survived in to Go-Ahead ownership
No Quinton Garage has never operated Leyland Nationals to my knowledge
Yes I do remember the Pete's Citybuses on the 22 Winston. I don't remember the Mercs on the 22/23 though, I only recall BCC Merc minibuses on the 21A but I was in my early 20s back then and drinking and partying so it's all a bit of a blur. I tried to find some pictures but can't.
Mike you obviously didn't drink enough back then as your memory has survived better than mine. It was the 21A BCC used them on, I thought there was another route as well, as I seem to remember there were 8-10 Merc minis @ BCC
Found a few pics to go with the topic of conversation, can't find any BCC Merc minis though....
Photo on my flicr site stanjack
BCC operated the 21A to Bangham pit I dont think they ever operated the 22
Quote from: clayderman on January 01, 2017, 11:03:29 PM
General Question(s)
1) Which route did the 80 take going to & from City Centre?
Context: Prior to being rerouted through Ladywood (ie current route) - following the withdrawal of the Crosscity bit of the 66 service? (City Hospital to Star City (& God knows where), via City Centre)
For some reason, I recall it going through Jewellery Quarter (Warstone Lane)? Can anybody shed some light?
2) Does anybody remember anything of the old 7B route? "Who operated it, where did it go" type of general background information
Would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :)
Sorry to drag back an old topic, but I've just stumbled across this on Flickr:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcw1987/4982018975/in/album-72157623332945564/
Nice to know I wasn't losing my mind after all! :P
hello lads I've just found out about the times on routes 163 169 and 193 operating at 1,11,21,31,41,51 every hour, does that mean wmpte routes 53 and 54 worked 5 minutes later than the times shown
Quote from: iansdavies on March 23, 2017, 07:29:34 PM
hello lads I've just found out about the times on routes 163 169 and 193 operating at 1,11,21,31,41,51 every hour, does that mean wmpte routes 53 and 54 worked 5 minutes later than the times shown
The 163, 169 and 193 ran every 20 mins each Monday Friday daytime (equivalent to every 6/7 mins) and every 15 mins each Monday to Friday peaks and Saturday daytime (equivalent to every 5 mins).
The 53 and 54 ran every 11 mins each Monday Friday daytime (combined to every 5/6 mins), The 53 ran every 5-8 mins Monday to Friday peaks and Saturday daytime. The 54 ran every 5-8 mins each Monday to Friday peaks and approx. every 10-15 mins Saturday daytime.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 23, 2017, 09:03:51 PM
The 163, 169 and 193 ran every 20 mins each Monday Friday daytime (equivalent to every 6/7 mins) and every 15 mins each Monday to Friday peaks and Saturday daytime (equivalent to every 5 mins).
The 53 and 54 ran every 11 mins each Monday Friday daytime (combined to every 5/6 mins), The 53 ran every 5-8 mins Monday to Friday peaks and Saturday daytime. The 54 ran every 5-8 mins each Monday to Friday peaks and approx. every 10-15 mins Saturday daytime.
Weren't there pick up/set down restrictions on some of these ex Midland Red routes within the Birmingham City Boundary and ex BCT routes 53, 54 (and 55 and 56) only ran to the City Boundary - until the rationalisation that became 93, 94, 97, 98?
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on November 30, 2013, 08:24:53 PM
Slightly off topic, but i vaguely remember 2p monday when all bus fares were just 2p on a Monday surprisingly.
Can someone tell me that it was true and i not making things up?
You are right mate in the early 80s about 1981, this is how it all started WM area was tories controlled they bought in a Monday 5p Kids, 10p adults fare, thus being the day when less people used the buses. The labour got back in around 81 scrapped the Monday deal bought in a 2p fare for us kids, it cost the West Midlands millions, bus drivers where complaing about being unpaid childminders, my mum used to give me & and my brother 50p to get us out of the way, we would ride all over the West Midlands once we went to Coventry, never got into any trouble or had anybody attack us happy times.
Quote from: don on March 24, 2017, 12:32:05 AM
Weren't there pick up/set down restrictions on some of these ex Midland Red routes within the Birmingham City Boundary and ex BCT routes 53, 54 (and 55 and 56) only ran to the City Boundary - until the rationalisation that became 93, 94, 97, 98?
Yes, so effectively passengers within the City used BCT, whilst those outside the boundary used Midland Red.
Mind you wish this situation was still in force nowadays, maybe the 97 would be less prone to bunching if the route was shorter!
Quote from: D10 on March 24, 2017, 09:06:58 PM
Yes, so effectively passengers within the City used BCT, whilst those outside the boundary used Midland Red.
Mind you wish this situation was still in force nowadays, maybe the 97 would be less prone to bunching if the route was shorter!
On service 194 a special blind stated "FIRST SET DOWN HEATHLAND AVENUE", see:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4826914185/
was kox 747f a lea hall based bus, i saw a picture on ebay its route was 193e operating to pine square , im thinking this photo was taken before 1976 ,
I have allocations for 4/73 and 3/77. 3747 was at YW in 4/73 but had moved to LH by 3/77 and was still there in 1/82
thanks busfan i remember they used to garage share alot of midland red routes i guess this bus may have been on loan ;)
From my far-from-complete records I believe 3747 moved from Yardley Wood to Lea Hall around September 1973 along with 3745/6/8/9 and 3750.
According to an allocation sheet that that I had (transposed but hopefully accurate) Lea Hall had the following at March 1974
3276-3281
3445-3450
3473-3474
3575-3601
3745-3750
4247-4251
4258-4264
hiya any ideas of where i could find a picture or photo of bissell bus bon497c taken in chelmsley in 1976 , ive looked on flickr and ebay ,any websites i can look out for it . :D
Quote from: Rob2832 on November 30, 2013, 09:35:16 PM
Miss These Routes that used to operate by me (apart from the 40A/40C)
37A Birmingham City Centre - Birmingham Airport/NEC then became 38
40A/40C Solihull Circulars
41A/41C Acocks Green Circulars then they became 41 then became 42
42C Cranes Park - Solihull Station
56 Marston Green Rail Station - Birmingham City Centre (when Liberators were at BC)
69 Heartlands Hospital - Weoley Castle
98 Sheldon Wheatsheaf - Small Heath Asda (back in late 90's)
I remember when there was a 44 that ran to Lincoln Road North from City Centre via Acocks Green
Also the original 98 that operated from Bull Ring Bus Station to Marston Green via Cattell Road and Chelmsley Wood.
99 also ran from Bull Ring Bus Station to Chelmsley Wood Lanchester Way along the same route as the 98 until Cooks Lane.
188 Solihull to Damsonwood which later became 41
199 was Castle Vale to Acocks Green via NEC and Sheldon.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 01, 2013, 04:55:51 PM
689 replaced the 98 when the route was Curtailed away from the Fox & Goose and Bromford Rd areas. The 689 used to start at Park Hall school via Poolway and I believe terminated in Sheldon.
There was the 693 that ran from Park Hall School back to Park Hall School via Shard End. This was used as a bedding in route for new drivers at LH.
95 ran from Park Hall to Birmingham originally when it first started. I remember seeing them at the terminus from my classroom window.
Quote from: iansdavies on April 02, 2017, 02:00:44 PM
was kox 747f a lea hall based bus, i saw a picture on ebay its route was 193e operating to pine square , im thinking this photo was taken before 1976 ,
3747 was at LH from 9/73 until withdrawal in 1/82.
Apologies if I've asked this before, but where did the 91/91A actually go? I'm not sure if it was a Hockley or Perry Barr route, if I'm honest. But I do recall the route going from City Centre to Perry Barr, via Hockley Circus & Hunters Road - but not too sure of where it went after Perry Barr.
Was it Pheasey? If anyone has a 91/91A timetable from wayback when, I'll be tremendously grateful. :) Thanks
Quote from: CL on February 25, 2018, 01:09:09 PM
Apologies if I've asked this before, but where did the 91/91A actually go? I'm not sure if it was a Hockley or Perry Barr route, if I'm honest. But I do recall the route going from City Centre to Perry Barr, via Hockley Circus & Hunters Road - but not too sure of where it went after Perry Barr.
Was it Pheasey? If anyone has a 91/91A timetable from wayback when, I'll be tremendously grateful. :) Thanks
PB and yes the 91 was Birmingham to Pheasey via Hockley Circus, not sure about the 91A though
@CL
91a from memory missed out Hockney went direct a34 to perry Barr think was Sunday mornings
Quote from: monkeyjoe on February 25, 2018, 05:33:26 PM
91a from memory missed out Hockney went direct a34 to perry Barr think was Sunday mornings
I've just had a look at the centro map for Birmingham from 1998. It confirms what you remember. The 91 shows as "via Hockley" and the 91a shows as "via Newtown". Looking at the map the 91a did indeed go straight along Newtown Row. As for timetable/frequency of the 91a, all that can be gleaned from the map is that it only ran on Sunday mornings. The frequency just shows as a little telephone. i.e. You had to ring up to check for times. Also of note, and something i'd forgotten - there was once a 91n (via Hockley).
Thanks all! Really appreciate the various information. :D 91N sounds interesting. Night service or some weird unrelated suffix? ???
Quote from: CL on February 25, 2018, 08:31:07 PM
Thanks all! Really appreciate the various information. :D 91N sounds interesting. Night service or some weird unrelated suffix? ???
The 91n was indeed a night service. :)
Hi all, does anyone have any information on the history of the 402/42 at the Tipton end? I remember as a kid living on the lost city, that you'd have a 402 to Central Avenue, and the 402A which went to Owen Street, and then you have the current arrangement of the 42 to Tipton station or Dudley, but I can't remember much about inbetween, such as the period of time with the 42A and 42C from Diamond. In addition, does anyone know when the NXWM 43 stopped using it's normal route into Bilston and instead changed to the current route past Morrisons?
Quote from: CL on February 25, 2018, 01:09:09 PM
Apologies if I've asked this before, but where did the 91/91A actually go? I'm not sure if it was a Hockley or Perry Barr route, if I'm honest. But I do recall the route going from City Centre to Perry Barr, via Hockley Circus & Hunters Road - but not too sure of where it went after Perry Barr.
Was it Pheasey? If anyone has a 91/91A timetable from wayback when, I'll be tremendously grateful. :) Thanks
As further background to the 90/91 services, the 90 from early 1971 ran from Hall Green (Baldwins Lane) to Pheasey - via Hockley, Hamstead Road, Lozells Road, Heathfield Road - then Perry Barr, Kingstanding Road etc to Pheasey. The return direction was service 91.
There was also a 29 (Kingstanding Circle to Highfield Road, Hall Green) and 30 in the opposite direction which gradually died out.
The 90/91 were converted to one person operation in mid 1975 - In April 1975 the 91 service number ceased to be used for the southbound cross city journeys and the route showed 90 in both directions. At this time the 92 was extended from the Birmingham boundary to Cranmore Boulevard (rationalising some ex Midland Red routes) - this delinked the service from the previous 90/91 - resulting in short workings being required between City and Pheasey - these originally showed 90 also but the confusing arrangement was changed so the short workings showed 91.
The routes were operated by PB and YW - they received new Fleetlines 4530-4585 in 1975 - 4530-57 to PB the remainder to YW - used in the conversion of the routes to one person operation (4530-4579 had Leyland engines).
In BCT 1960s days the cross city routes were numbered 29A and 29.
What was the old Timesaver network at its peak, i started using the network in the mid 90s, loved those Metrobuses with DP seating, what i remember of the network is.
900, Birmingham-Coventry, i remember single deck vehicles being used around 1998/99, which were totally inadequate for the route, but i believe this was because of a low bridge in the Airport, International Station loop.
902, Birmingham-Hillhook, i remember this route going to Shenstone.
904 now X4
905 now X5
914 now X14
950, Birmingham-Hednesford via Walsall & Cannock
951, Birmingham-Cannock via Walsall
952/953, Birmingham-Hednesford via Walsall & Cannock
966, Walsall-Airport via Sutton Coldfield-Erdington-Chelmsley Wood
979, Birmingham-Wolverhampton
993/994, Birmingham-Airport, think via Chelmsley Wood
995 now 937
996 not sure but maybe part of 934/935/936 group of routes
997 think this has had a couple of route changes between Pheasey & Aldridge
998 now 997E
Quote from: Crosville on March 09, 2018, 11:03:08 AM
What was the old Timesaver network at its peak, i started using the network in the mid 90s, loved those Metrobuses with DP seating, what i remember of the network is.
900, Birmingham-Coventry, i remember single deck vehicles being used around 1998/99, which were totally inadequate for the route, but i believe this was because of a low bridge in the Airport, International Station loop.
902, Birmingham-Hillhook, i remember this route going to Shenstone.
904 now X4
905 now X5
914 now X14
950, Birmingham-Hednesford via Walsall & Cannock
951, Birmingham-Cannock via Walsall
952/953, Birmingham-Hednesford via Walsall & Cannock
966, Walsall-Airport via Sutton Coldfield-Erdington-Chelmsley Wood
979, Birmingham-Wolverhampton
993/994, Birmingham-Airport, think via Chelmsley Wood
995 now 937
996 not sure but maybe part of 934/935/936 group of routes
997 think this has had a couple of route changes between Pheasey & Aldridge
998 now 997E
The 902 still operates as an x... route. You could also add the short lived 921 route to Bangham Pit, used Lynxes rather than Metros though.
996 went City to Sutton Coldfield towards the end of its existence.
Quote from: Crosville on March 09, 2018, 11:03:08 AM
What was the old Timesaver network at its peak, i started using the network in the mid 90s, loved those Metrobuses with DP seating, what i remember of the network is.
900, Birmingham-Coventry, i remember single deck vehicles being used around 1998/99, which were totally inadequate for the route, but i believe this was because of a low bridge in the Airport, International Station loop.
902, Birmingham-Hillhook, i remember this route going to Shenstone.
904 now X4
905 now X5
914 now X14
950, Birmingham-Hednesford via Walsall & Cannock
951, Birmingham-Cannock via Walsall
952/953, Birmingham-Hednesford via Walsall & Cannock
966, Walsall-Airport via Sutton Coldfield-Erdington-Chelmsley Wood
979, Birmingham-Wolverhampton
993/994, Birmingham-Airport, think via Chelmsley Wood
995 now 937
996 not sure but maybe part of 934/935/936 group of routes
997 think this has had a couple of route changes between Pheasey & Aldridge
998 now 997E
The Suttons weren't Timesaver Routes, the 914 wasn't even from that era.
The 900 was Hasbury-Coventry
The 966 was Wolverhampton - Airport in Timesaver days.
The 951 was Bearwood - Cannock
The 952/3 were Birmingham - Brereton
In addition there was the
901 Birmingham - Walsall via Lichfield
962 Birmingham-Chelmsley Wood
967 Birmingham - Castle Vale
How long were some of the journey times of those routes? It's saddening none of these long journeys exist Anymore
900, 966,951 would be interested to know the journey times of those 3 if anyone could help please
The 902/4/5 didn't start until April 2000. I'd just started a job in Sutton a few weeks before, so the new network along with brand new buses made the journey interesting. Would have been better with Timesaver Metrobuses though. Comfiest seats ever!
Quote from: Crosville on March 09, 2018, 11:03:08 AM
What was the old Timesaver network at its peak, i started using the network in the mid 90s, loved those Metrobuses with DP seating, what i remember of the network is.
900, Birmingham-Coventry, i remember single deck vehicles being used around 1998/99, which were totally inadequate for the route, but i believe this was because of a low bridge in the Airport, International Station loop.
902, Birmingham-Hillhook, i remember this route going to Shenstone.
904 now X4
905 now X5
914 now X14
950, Birmingham-Hednesford via Walsall & Cannock
951, Birmingham-Cannock via Walsall
952/953, Birmingham-Hednesford via Walsall & Cannock
966, Walsall-Airport via Sutton Coldfield-Erdington-Chelmsley Wood
979, Birmingham-Wolverhampton
993/994, Birmingham-Airport, think via Chelmsley Wood
995 now 937
996 not sure but maybe part of 934/935/936 group of routes
997 think this has had a couple of route changes between Pheasey & Aldridge
998 now 997E
There was also the 963 Gannow to Brum which in turn became the 964 IIRC
@Crosville. Also there was a 913 Town to Sutton via Streetly
There was also the 926/S Priory Estate(?) / Sedgley to Birmingham and a bit later a short lived 945 Birmingham to Barnt Green.
966 went to Wolverhampton initially, it was long trek but as stated the seats were cumfy.
I somehow recall the 966 Wolverhampton - Airport journey time being 85 minutes at first. I think the service was Limited Stop throughout, except between Walsall and Mere Green, and it bypassed Castle Bromwich and Smiths Wood by using the Collector Road between M6 junction 5 and Chelmsley Wood. I rode the service in this form a couple of times - great rides although not alot of passengers.
Interestingly, a summer hourly all-night service was registered, but the service started on 26 October 1986 (Deregulation Day) and by summer 1987 there had been a change of mind and the night service did not start.
The early Timesaver services were more Limited Stop than today's X services - Timesavers seemed more targeted at fast point-to-point links, whereas today's X routes are more focussed on stopping where people live or work. To give an example, the X51 makes more stops than the original 951 did and loads better (at least off peak) as a result.
Quote from: Tony on March 09, 2018, 06:47:22 PM
The Suttons weren't Timesaver Routes, the 914 wasn't even from that era.
The 900 was Hasbury-Coventry
The 966 was Wolverhampton - Airport in Timesaver days.
The 951 was Bearwood - Cannock
The 952/3 were Birmingham - Brereton
In addition there was the
901 Birmingham - Walsall via Lichfield
962 Birmingham-Chelmsley Wood
967 Birmingham - Castle Vale
Cheers.
I know the original 900 was to Hasbury, which got replaced by the 19, & the 19 ended up being withdrawn. Didn't know the 951 started at Bearwood, & 952/953 went to Brereton. I remember the 950 & 952 operating on Saturdays as well as the peaks, i actually caught the 952 one Saturday afternoon from Hednesford to Birmingham.
Anyone know when the timesaver brand started, seems to me at D-Reg as the 900 was 159 before that?
Quote from: Crosville on March 09, 2018, 11:09:13 PM
Cheers.
I know the original 900 was to Hasbury, which got replaced by the 19, & the 19 ended up being withdrawn. Didn't know the 951 started at Bearwood, & 952/953 went to Brereton. I remember the 950 & 952 operating on Saturdays as well as the peaks, i actually caught the 952 one Saturday afternoon from Hednesford to Birmingham.
Anyone know when the timesaver brand started, seems to me at D-Reg as the 900 was 159 before that?
The Timesaver vehicles were introduced at deregulation in 1986 but the 900 existed prior to that using standard MK2 BC Metrobuses with black and yellow Timesaver side adverts. When it first replaced the 159, the 900 went Halesowen to Coventry.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59615439@N03/14371367944
I always thought the 901 was the best service as you floated on air suspension in those comfy seats out into rural Staffordshire via the A38 to Lichfield, then couldn't get into the centre because of the low bridge so had to take a long circuit north of the town. Eventually you'd set out for Walsall. The then editor of Buses mag, Stephen Morris, saw a 901 in Walsall and thought it was direct to Brum. He had a much longer ride than he expected but what surprised him most was the fare - 32p!
Wasn't the 159 which the 900 replaced, originally a Midland Red route, until Midland Red sold there routes to WMPTE, i read that Midland Red ordered a batch of Atlanteans for there West Midlands routes, the Atlanteans were then diverted to Merseyside PTE after Midland Red sold there routes, they were numbered 1236 to 1295 & became the last Atlanteans built on the PDR chassis, as the next Atlanteans were on the AN68 chassis.
Quote from: Crosville on March 10, 2018, 09:07:19 AM
Wasn't the 159 which the 900 replaced, originally a Midland Red route, until Midland Red sold there routes to WMPTE, i read that Midland Red ordered a batch of Atlanteans for there West Midlands routes, the Atlanteans were then diverted to Merseyside PTE after Midland Red sold there routes, they were numbered 1236 to 1295 & became the last Atlanteans built on the PDR chassis, as the next Atlanteans were on the AN68 chassis.
Yes, the 159 was a former Midland Red route, along with many, many others in the Birmingham, Solihull and Black Country areas that were sold to WMPTE in 1973.
Midland Red ordered 118 Atlanteans as part of the 1972 NBC order. I don't think it was announced where they would be allocated to, but it was academic because they never reached Midland Red. The 50 that were ordered with MCW bodies were diverted to London Country (30) and Maidstone & District (20), and 60 of the 68 with Alexander bodies were indeed diverted to Merseyside PTE.
Anyone know what happened to the other eight?
I've just found this complete list of all the Midland Red routes that changed to the WMPTE.
http://www.stourbridgebusinfo.co.uk/ip/scanned/buses74.pdf
Quote from: Crosville on March 11, 2018, 02:26:07 PM
I've just found this complete list of all the Midland Red routes that changed to the WMPTE.
http://www.stourbridgebusinfo.co.uk/ip/scanned/buses74.pdf
Love the travelcard bus!
Travel for a day in 2018 for same amount you could travel for a month in 1974!
Quote from: JoNi on March 12, 2018, 11:53:15 AM
Love the travelcard bus!
Travel for a day in 2018 for same amount you could travel for a month in 1974!
It's worth keeping in mind that £4 in 1974 is over £44 in today's money, due to inflation. It's still £62.50 for a 4 week one nowadays, so it has technically increased more than inflation.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on March 10, 2018, 09:23:52 PM
Yes, the 159 was a former Midland Red route, along with many, many others in the Birmingham, Solihull and Black Country areas that were sold to WMPTE in 1973.
Midland Red ordered 118 Atlanteans as part of the 1972 NBC order. I don't think it was announced where they would be allocated to, but it was academic because they never reached Midland Red. The 50 that were ordered with MCW bodies were diverted to London Country (30) and Maidstone & District (20), and 60 of the 68 with Alexander bodies were indeed diverted to Merseyside PTE.
Anyone know what happened to the other eight?
Whilst it was common for buses to be re-allocated, or diverted, within NBC, I'm not sure that "diverted" is the correct term for those that went outside NBC. Perhaps they were cancelled and their entry in the order book (for 50 of them) simply changed to Merseyside. The others, if they were ever identified in Alexander's production list, would have been subsumed into the large batches they were building for Glasgow and Edinburgh.
If anybody knows it'll be someone on the Midland Red forum.
Quote from: Crosville on March 10, 2018, 09:07:19 AM
Wasn't the 159 which the 900 replaced, originally a Midland Red route, until Midland Red sold there routes to WMPTE, i read that Midland Red ordered a batch of Atlanteans for there West Midlands routes, the Atlanteans were then diverted to Merseyside PTE after Midland Red sold there routes, they were numbered 1236 to 1295 & became the last Atlanteans built on the PDR chassis, as the next Atlanteans were on the AN68 chassis.
I thought the the last PDRs were for CIE; they all had 73 chassis numbers; some were bodied at Inchicore and some by Van Hool McArdle.
CIE's last PDR was D602 (602ZO); D603 (603ZO) was an AN68.
When I saw these first AN68s in Liverpool I wondered if there'd be any sign that they'd been specified by Midland Red but they were to MPTE standards.
Should have said last PDR1s delivered to Merseyside PTE. Come to think of it did West Midlands have any dual door buses delivered as new, Merseyside had the jumbo Atlanteans with dual door, quite a few areas outside London had dual door buses delivered when they converted from crew operations to one man operation?
Moving it on, what were the Coventry Station routes before they got numbered to 8/8A/9/9A, i remember the 27, not sure if the other was 26 or 28, but i remember buses towards Coventry Station didn't serve Pool Meadow, but stopped on Hales Street opposite the bus station instead?
Quote from: Crosville on March 13, 2018, 10:26:52 AM
Should have said last PDR1s delivered to Merseyside PTE. Come to think of it did West Midlands have any dual door buses delivered as new, Merseyside had the jumbo Atlanteans with dual door, quite a few areas outside London had dual door buses delivered when they converted from crew operations to one man operation?
All of the WMPTE Jumbos were delivered new as dual door, although they were ordered by Birmingham, Wolverhampton and West Bromwich.
There was a batch of Nationals delivered dual doored KOM7**P batch and the L reg Commer Mini buses for the Centrebus were dual doored, however they had doors on the near side and offside!
Quote from: Crosville on March 13, 2018, 10:26:52 AM
Should have said last PDR1s delivered to Merseyside PTE. Come to think of it did West Midlands have any dual door buses delivered as new, Merseyside had the jumbo Atlanteans with dual door, quite a few areas outside London had dual door buses delivered when they converted from crew operations to one man operation?
Moving it on, what were the Coventry Station routes before they got numbered to 8/8A/9/9A, i remember the 27, not sure if the other was 26 or 28, but i remember buses towards Coventry Station didn't serve Pool Meadow, but stopped on Hales Street opposite the bus station instead?
Currently 8/8A/9/9A, before that it was the 27 (previously 17/27) and before that, it was probably the to & from Pool Meadow/Rail Station service 25.
Coventry had dual-door Park Royal bodied Fleetlines operating until 1982/3 - those that could not be converted to single-door after delivery to Coventry Transport some years before. Presumably the centre door was left unused.
Quote from: Gareth on March 13, 2018, 10:49:53 AM
All of the WMPTE Jumbos were delivered new as dual door, although they were ordered by Birmingham, Wolverhampton and West Bromwich.
There was a batch of Nationals delivered dual doored KOM7**P batch and the L reg Commer Mini buses for the Centrebus were dual doored, however they had doors on the near side and offside!
There was also a batch of 15 dual door NCME bodied Fleetlines ordered by Walsall, that made the final trolleybus conversion possible.
Were the dual door Nationals not meant for use around the then new NEC?
Quote from: Crosville on March 13, 2018, 10:26:52 AM
Should have said last PDR1s delivered to Merseyside PTE. Come to think of it did West Midlands have any dual door buses delivered as new, Merseyside had the jumbo Atlanteans with dual door, quite a few areas outside London had dual door buses delivered when they converted from crew operations to one man operation?
Moving it on, what were the Coventry Station routes before they got numbered to 8/8A/9/9A, i remember the 27, not sure if the other was 26 or 28, but i remember buses towards Coventry Station didn't serve Pool Meadow, but stopped on Hales Street opposite the bus station instead?
BCT had the two batches of two door Fleetlines, 3781-3880 standard length and the Jumbos (33 footers) 3881-3980, but 3980 was diverted to Johannesburg. 3881 to 3979 entered service with WMPTE. BCT also had the 18 two door AEC Swifts. Then there were the Wolverhampton Jumbos which became 3980 to 4004. All these were Park Royal. Then West Brom Jumbos 4005-4012 by Northern Counties. Last to come in 1970 were 4013-27 ordered by Walsall but standard length. The KOM L Nationals were only used as two door on NEC car park duty (unless anyone knows better!)
By the way, we're way off topic!
Quote from: Crosville on March 13, 2018, 10:26:52 AM
Should have said last PDR1s delivered to Merseyside PTE. Come to think of it did West Midlands have any dual door buses delivered as new,
Including constituents WMPTE operated the following dual door, delivered new with double doors.
Walsall Fleetline/Northern Counties 33-55L, 56L, 76-90L, 91-105L, 106-119L (also 2L, 4-13L, 15-3L were built as Center door and rebuilt as double door 1969-72)
Wolverhammpton Reliances 705-707N, Swift 708-713N, Roadliner 714-719N and Ford 720N
Coventry Fleetline 23-40Y, 41-58Y, 59-76Y, 77-94Y (most r/b 1973-79 as single door (except 59-9/71-5Y), Bristol RE 519-521Y later 5519-5521
Birmingham Swifts 3663-3680, Fleetlines 3781-3880
WMPTE Jumbo Fleetlines 3881-3979 (ordered by Birmingham), 3980-4004 (ordered by Wolverhampton), 4006-4012 (ordered by West Bromwich) - note 100th bus of Birmingham (3980) order went to South Africa, first bus of Wolvehampton order allocated to AG.
WMPTE Fleetlines 4013-4027 (ordered by Walsall)
WMPTE Ford 4028 (ordered by Wolverhampton, delivered as a demonstrator not owned)
WMPTE 4788-4799 (delivered for opening of NEC for use on NEC shuttles)
Plus, as mentioned above, the Commers 4236-4241 with two doors on opposite sides!
last double door vehicles withdrawn in 1986 (the Leyland Nationals)
Midland Red Fleetlines 6023, 6156/9, 6160/6/7, 6175, 6186-9, 6198-6200, 6202-4, 6210-5, 6219/20, 6223/4, 6261-6270, 6278-6283, 6286-6293 (6023, 6186/7, 6198-6200/2/4/10-4/23, 6268, 6280/1/7-9 not rebuilt to single door)
Quote from: Stevo on March 13, 2018, 05:38:39 PM
BCT had the two batches of two door Fleetlines, 3781-3880 standard length and the Jumbos (33 footers) 3881-3980, but 3980 was diverted to Johannesburg. 3881 to 3979 entered service with WMPTE. BCT also had the 18 two door AEC Swifts. Then there were the Wolverhampton Jumbos which became 3980 to 4004. All these were Park Royal. Then West Brom Jumbos 4005-4012 by Northern Counties. Last to come in 1970 were 4013-27 ordered by Walsall but standard length. The KOM L Nationals were only used as two door on NEC car park duty (unless anyone knows better!)
By the way, we're way off topic!
When new they were used as double door vehicles on ordinary services to the NEC (Birmingham International) from at least Solihull.
Quote from: busfan2847 on March 13, 2018, 05:44:39 PM
Including constituents WMPTE operated the following dual door delivered new with double doors.
Walsall Fleetline/Northern Counties 33-55L, 56L, 76-90L, 91-105L, 106-119L (also 2L, 4-13L, 15-3L were built as Center door and rebuilt as double door 1969-72)
Wolverhammpton Reliances 705-707N, Swift 708-713N, Roadliner 714-719N and Ford 720N
Coventry Fleetline 23-40Y, 41-58Y, 59-76Y, 77-94Y (most r/b 1973-79 as single door (except 59-9/71-5Y), Bristol RE 519-521Y later 5519-5521
Birmingham Swifts 3663-3680, Fleetlines 3781-3880
WMPTE Jumbo Fleetlines 3881-3979 (ordered by Birmingham), 3980-4004 (ordered by Wolverhampton), 4006-4012 (ordered by West Bromwich) - note 100th bus of Birmingham (3980) order went to South Africa, first bus of Wolvehampton order allocated to AG.
WMPTE Fleetlines 4013-4027 (ordered by Walsall)
WMPTE Ford 4028 (ordered by Wolverhampton, delivered as a demonstrator not owned)
WMPTE 4788-4799 (delivered for opening of NEC for use on NEC shuttles)
Plus, as mentioned above, the Commers 4236-4241 with two doors on opposite sides!
last double door vehicles withdrawn in 1986 (the Leyland Nationals)
You've missed the ex Midland Red Fleetlines
Were any of the Nationals taken over by WMT in the 1990s from Tame Valley etc two door examples as they may actually be the last two door buses in service with them.
Quote from: Tony on March 13, 2018, 06:24:23 PM
You've missed the ex Midland Red Fleetlines
You are correct, I have added them.
Quote from: j789 on March 13, 2018, 07:58:55 PM
Were any of the Nationals taken over by WMT in the 1990s from Tame Valley etc two door examples as they may actually be the last two door buses in service with them.
Yes, some Westlink dual door Nationals moved up to WMBuses and worked to cover Stevenson's & Metrowest etc
Quote from: j789 on March 13, 2018, 07:58:55 PM
Were any of the Nationals taken over by WMT in the 1990s from Tame Valley etc two door examples as they may actually be the last two door buses in service with them.
I specified WMPTE and earlier.
There where double door Nationals acquired from Metrowest (1601/2, 1662, 1746, 1901-6 last withdrawn 1997). Your Bus Atlanteans 38, 42/3, 61/2/4, Fleetline 45, and of course SB220 5201 purchased after WMT took over Your Bus for an airport contract replacing the monorail, rebuilt to single door in 1999.
Leyland Nationals 1907-1912 were hired in from Westlink when Stevensons services were taken over in 1994 for a few months into 1995.
Finally all 33 articulated buses are dual door (6001-11, 6012-21, 6022-33) with 6021 still in service!
I do not have any from Tame Valley
I seem to remember a fatal accident in Brum when an elderly lady attempted to board a bus via the centre doors, fell and was run over, and after this no more two door deckers were ordered. Does anyone else recall this inncident?
Quote from: Other Walsall Tony on March 13, 2018, 10:23:36 PM
I seem to remember a fatal accident in Brum when an elderly lady attempted to board a bus via the centre doors, fell and was run over, and after this no more two door deckers were ordered. Does anyone else recall this inncident?
Yes it was on the Bristol Road during the period that 3811-3878 operated the routes (basically during the end of 1968 and most of 1969). I think there were other issues and accidents which led to the signs being added to the between doors near side lower deck windows. After that a safety device was fitted which prevented the bus driving off with the centre door open - which negated any boarding/alighting time saving from having a central door - in fact it made them slower than single door vehicles - and also caused a loss of 4 seats in 30ft Fleetlines. It appears the idea of having two doors came at the time of changing double deck routes to one person operation - and the removal of rear number blinds. As a result of the issues no more dual door vehicles were purchased by WMPTE other than those already in order or under delivery except the NEC Nationals, which presumably required them for contractual reasons.
In fact apart from London and Lothian dual door buses generally went out of favour around the same period with a few sporadic exceptions presumably for the same reasons.
It's stated in several books that Midland Red drivers often didn't use the exit door on their buses and in any case the distance between the doors appeared much shorter than on the BCT or WMPTE ones.
The Walsall CT buses built with two doors were 31-55;56; and 76-119. Conversions in WMPTE days covered 2-30, with the exception of 17 and 24 (rebuilt with two doors and the later style front following severe collision damage in WCT days) whilst 3 and 14 were withdrawn in single door format in early WMPTE days (1970).
Quote from: Justin Tyme on March 10, 2018, 09:23:52 PM
Yes, the 159 was a former Midland Red route, along with many, many others in the Birmingham, Solihull and Black Country areas that were sold to WMPTE in 1973.
Midland Red ordered 118 Atlanteans as part of the 1972 NBC order. I don't think it was announced where they would be allocated to, but it was academic because they never reached Midland Red. The 50 that were ordered with MCW bodies were diverted to London Country (30) and Maidstone & District (20), and 60 of the 68 with Alexander bodies were indeed diverted to Merseyside PTE.
Anyone know what happened to the other eight?
I was aware that Midland Red attempted to order 118 Atlanteans that were diverted. i seem to recall from one of Malcolm keeley's books on Midland Red that some indeed went to LCBS with the rest I believe going to Southdown though I may be wrong on this. My question is , however that there seems to be some discussion as to some of the order ending up with Merseyside to full MPTE spec. Given that this was an NBC order and that MPTE was an entirely separate entity how did this come about? Was part of the order cancelled by NBC?
Quote from: Justin Tyme on March 09, 2018, 09:35:51 PM
...
The early Timesaver services were more Limited Stop than today's X services - Timesavers seemed more targeted at fast point-to-point links, whereas today's X routes are more focussed on stopping where people live or work. To give an example, the X51 makes more stops than the original 951 did and loads better (at least off peak) as a result.
Rather moot point now given the conversation has swung onto old buses but....
One particular reason I see the X51 as being better than the 951 is the attitude of the drivers. The 951 drivers seemed to hate picking up passengers that weren't going beyond Walsall, one even shouted at me on my way to school once saying "you don't need to get this bus get the 51 instead"!
Cheers everyone.
The Atlanteans were ordered but not built, so the Atlanteans could be built to Merseyside spec,, one of those that went to Merseyside, 1236 is preserved by Merseyside Transport Trust who have an article about 1236 on there site. http://mttrust.co.uk/1236-bkc-236k/4546687771
Quote from: Crosville on March 14, 2018, 12:10:41 PM
Cheers everyone.
The Atlanteans were ordered but not built, so the Atlanteans could be built to Merseyside spec,, one of those that went to Merseyside, 1236 is preserved by Merseyside Transport Trust who have an article about 1236 on there site. http://mttrust.co.uk/1236-bkc-236k/4546687771
Thanks For the info Crosville! Excellent article on 1236 as well.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on March 09, 2018, 09:35:51 PM
I somehow recall the 966 Wolverhampton - Airport journey time being 85 minutes at first. I think the service was Limited Stop throughout, except between Walsall and Mere Green, and it bypassed Castle Bromwich and Smiths Wood by using the Collector Road between M6 junction 5 and Chelmsley Wood. I rode the service in this form a couple of times - great rides although not alot of passengers.
Interestingly, a summer hourly all-night service was registered, but the service started on 26 October 1986 (Deregulation Day) and by summer 1987 there had been a change of mind and the night service did not start.
The early Timesaver services were more Limited Stop than today's X services - Timesavers seemed more targeted at fast point-to-point links, whereas today's X routes are more focussed on stopping where people live or work. To give an example, the X51 makes more stops than the original 951 did and loads better (at least off peak) as a result.
The thread's moved on and it's taken me over a week to find this 966 photo and clean it up. But I'm still going to put it on this thread! ;D
https://www.flickr.com/photos/69947186@N08/32804019862/in/photolist-RYMaLC-RYMbem
Thinking of the Bristol Road services which are now X61 & 63 Birmingham-Frankley but what was the old routes as me recollections are
61, Birmingham-Gannow
62, Birmingham-Rednal
63, Birmingham-Rubery Great Park
64, Birmingham-Gannow
I think the old 61 & 64 terminus may have been Gannow Boleyn Road.
Quote from: Crosville on March 20, 2018, 11:42:09 PM
Thinking of the Bristol Road services which are now X61 & 63 Birmingham-Frankley but what was the old routes as me recollections are
61, Birmingham-Gannow
62, Birmingham-Rednal
63, Birmingham-Rubery Great Park
64, Birmingham-Gannow
I think the old 61 & 64 terminus may have been Gannow Boleyn Road.
Yes, that is correct. The terminus was Boleyn Road.
Back in 2009 the terminus was briefly changed on the 61 and 63 so that the 61 terminated at Great Park via Gannow and the 63 went to Frankley.
Quote from: Crosville on March 20, 2018, 11:42:09 PM
Thinking of the Bristol Road services which are now X61 & 63 Birmingham-Frankley but what was the old routes as me recollections are
61, Birmingham-Gannow
62, Birmingham-Rednal
63, Birmingham-Rubery Great Park
64, Birmingham-Gannow
I think the old 61 & 64 terminus may have been Gannow Boleyn Road.
Before Great Park opened the 63 terminated just after turning right off Callowbrook Lane on Cross Farm Road
@Crosville
Quote from: Crosville on March 20, 2018, 11:42:09 PM
Thinking of the Bristol Road services which are now X61 & 63 Birmingham-Frankley but what was the old routes as me recollections are
61, Birmingham-Gannow
62, Birmingham-Rednal
63, Birmingham-Rubery Great Park
64, Birmingham-Gannow
I think the old 61 & 64 terminus may have been Gannow Boleyn Road.
The 64 was a relatively short lived affair I believe, having replaced the 963. I'm sure there was a 964 at some point too. A few years before there had been a different 64 that ran Northfield to Cotteridge via Frankley and Longbridge - these days covered by the 49.
Quote from: Mike K on March 21, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
The 64 was a relatively short lived affair I believe, having replaced the 963. I'm sure there was a 964 at some point too. A few years before there had been a different 64 that ran Northfield to Cotteridge via Frankley and Longbridge - these days covered by the 49.
Yes I used to catch the original 64 on Leach Green Lane when I went to school in Northfield back in the early 80's before it became the 49 which then was taken off Leach Green Lane completely
@Mike K.
I believe the 64 did take over the 963 before becoming the 964
Hello. I'm new here but thought I'd chip in as the Bristol Rd has always been my neck of the woods.
The 963 was replaced by the 64 which eventually became the 964. Its early incarnation was the city centre to Rubery flyover and it was then extended to Gannow as part of the 1986 post-deregulation Timesaver network.
The corridor has had its odd quirk - a 62A used to serve the Longbridge factory for a couple of journeys in the evening by running along Lowhlll Lane and Groveley Lane. Another unusual working took place for a few months on Sunday evenings 1995ish when the 62 was curtailed early evening and replaced by a 63A (?) which ran along the usual 63 route but took a diversion along the Lickey Road to serve Rednal before resuming the normal route.
Going back even further, there was a 949 in the late 70s which ran from the newly built Frankley estate through to the city centre.
Quote from: SO6597 on March 21, 2018, 09:18:06 PM
Hello. I'm new here but thought I'd chip in as the Bristol Rd has always been my neck of the woods.
Going back even further, there was a 949 in the late 70s which ran from the newly built Frankley estate through to the city centre.
I remember the 949, which was a peak hours limited stop service. Do you remember the daytime 149 service between Northfield and Frankley? Both services were replaced by extending the 61 from the city boundary to Frankley back in 1978 as the estate became larger. At the time (and until 1986?) the Frankley terminus was Holly Hill.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on March 21, 2018, 10:03:38 PM
I remember the 949, which was a peak hours limited stop service. Do you remember the daytime 149 service between Northfield and Frankley? Both services were replaced by extending the 61 from the city boundary to Frankley back in 1978 as the estate became larger. At the time (and until 1986?) the Frankley terminus was Holly Hill.
I hadn't known about the 949 until I came across this picture:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4572727930/in/photolist-beL37K-aAfkju-8gKevN-dZaaJB-8erZga-9ARkdD-6LAQJh-9ARdRi-7ZCpw5-8gKew3-6LhFj1-ax1qVV-aEfNVd-8gKevU-9yzn5K-9AKvbz-9ARdR8-byePyt-8QQiPA-9DApKc-9DApK6-8cBQCm-hWQPqt-hWRJsP-hY2QeJ-hWRbh7-82jG97-hWQQve-8gKew5-9DApK2-8QQiPs-7Y5qGJ-biCnK8-9ARdRc-9ARdRa-8erZgg-8erZgc-a1dFBq-a1XXxD-aAfkjj-9ARdR2-aAfkj5-9eWFnz-8HC1kM-8dLnWc-9HMPDU-9ARdR4-9Q4XGJ-9Q4XGG-xi4KGf
Funny how so many things come full circle - the X61 can't be far off what the 949 was forty years ago.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on March 21, 2018, 10:03:38 PM
I remember the 949, which was a peak hours limited stop service. Do you remember the daytime 149 service between Northfield and Frankley? Both services were replaced by extending the 61 from the city boundary to Frankley back in 1978 as the estate became larger. At the time (and until 1986?) the Frankley terminus was Holly Hill.
I do remember the 149 and think it may well have ended up getting replaced by the aforementioned 'old' 64.
The 61 ran to Holly Hill up until autumn 1986 when it was then extended to Gannow - it terminated in the same area as the 963 close to Crompton Road. Looks like the 63 may well end up terminating there if/when the ongoing South Bham review is finalised.
Quote from: Mike K on March 21, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
The 64 was a relatively short lived affair I believe, having replaced the 963. I'm sure there was a 964 at some point too. A few years before there had been a different 64 that ran Northfield to Cotteridge via Frankley and Longbridge - these days covered by the 49.
That sounds like what was suggested to replace the 29 and 49 between Northfield and Frankley on the consultation.
Wasn't the 49 slightly different route in the Gannow/Frankley area, seem to remember it went past the old 61/64 terminus down Boleyn Road, & did the 61 interwork the 64 as there's no turning circle on Boleyn Road?
49 Solihull-Northfield is a strange route, straight forward Solihull to Druids Heath, then goes down what feels like every side road rest of the route until Northfield terminus.
Quote from: Crosville on March 22, 2018, 02:21:24 PM
Wasn't the 49 slightly different route in the Gannow/Frankley area, seem to remember it went past the old 61/64 terminus down Boleyn Road, & did the 61 interwork the 64 as there's no turning circle on Boleyn Road?
Junction of Boleyn Road and Crompton Road if I'm not mistaken is a turning circle
Quote from: Kevin on March 22, 2018, 05:43:39 PM
Junction of Boleyn Road and Crompton Road if I'm not mistaken is a turning circle
Yes that's where they turned around - still there today if Google Maps is up to date.
Correct, when the 49 terminated at Gannow it ran along Ormond Road to serve the shops at Holly Hill and then ran into Rubery via Rubery Lane/Callowbrook Lane. When it was extended to Northfield in April 1984 it still served Holly Hill/Gannow but ran into Rubery via New Inns Lane/Callowbrook Lane.
Re: 64 (Bristol Rd service) - I don't think it ever interworked with the 61 as it was a peak time only service. Both routes used the small loop created by the Boleyn Road/Crompton Road junction to turn around to head back to the city centre.
Bristol Rd corridor must be one of the most tinkered about with corridors in the city or at least in the top 5
Quote from: monkeyjoe on March 22, 2018, 07:00:16 PM
Bristol Rd corridor must be one of the most tinkered about with corridors in the city or at least in the top 5
Certainly during the last decade or so. Prior to that it was one of the more stable ones.
In the late 80's the Birmingham - Saltley corridor was served by 8 routes, 4 continued along Alun Rock Road (14, 26, 55, 56) and 4 served Washwood Heath Road (90, 92, 93, 94), maybe the peak only 95 as well.
Today is is down to just 3 - 14, 55 (now Washwood Heath) and 94. There ha been plenty of tinkering with the 14 non city terminus but the 94 iis virtually unchanged.
Some of the old routes local to me during the '70's/'80's:-
229 - my school bus
233 - my school bus
221 - sometimes got this one home from school
212 - my husband's school bus
214
215
220
252
Then when the numbers changed school/college/socialising buses!
9
82
137
128
129
120
121
445
448
450
417
410
411
401
403
When did the WMPTE change the numbers from local Corpy numbers to the WMPTE ones like Walsall became 3xx, West Bromwich 4xx, Wolverhampton 5xx ecc?, did Coventry numbers change or stayed the same as i only remember the Coventry numbers from WMT era?
Quote from: Crosville on April 01, 2018, 03:08:18 PM
When did the WMPTE change the numbers from local Corpy numbers to the WMPTE ones like Walsall became 3xx, West Bromwich 4xx, Wolverhampton 5xx ecc?, did Coventry numbers change or stayed the same as i only remember the Coventry numbers from WMT era?
They did not change. The existing Coventry Corporation route numbers remained into WMPTE days as there was no significant overlap between Coventry and Birmingham bus routes and any ex Midland Red routes that ran in both areas were all numbered above 100 (eg 159 Birmingham - Coventry).
Walsall was changed over to the 300's around 1977(I think?), no later than 1978.
Quote from: CBBUser on March 24, 2018, 08:15:45 AM
In the late 80's the Birmingham - Saltley corridor was served by 8 routes, 4 continued along Alun Rock Road (14, 26, 55, 56) and 4 served Washwood Heath Road (90, 92, 93, 94), maybe the peak only 95 as well.
Today is is down to just 3 - 14, 55 (now Washwood Heath) and 94. There ha been plenty of tinkering with the 14 non city terminus but the 94 iis virtually unchanged.
The 80s was 161/171 which became the 590 which in turn became the 90.
Steve
Quote from: Brummie45 on April 01, 2018, 04:19:19 PM
The 80s was 161/171 which became the 590 which in turn became the 90.
Steve
Actually
@Brummie45 the 161/171 first became the 90/59 before changing to the 590 then 590A/C. The returned to the 90 before becoming the 70 until 2017 when it became the X70
Quote from: Squiz1971 on April 01, 2018, 04:31:05 PM
Actually @Brummie45 the 161/171 first became the 90/59 before changing to the 590 then 590A/C. The returned to the 90 before becoming the 70 until 2017 when it became the X70
Why did they even renumber the 90 to 70? 90 was more fitting for Washwood Heath Road with the 94.
Quote from: Jack on April 01, 2018, 04:42:05 PM
Why did they even renumber the 90 to 70? 90 was more fitting for Washwood Heath Road with the 94.
It was extended to Solihull (same route the 72 used) and renumbered 70 to fit in with the 71 and 72 that also operated along the Solihull to Chelmsley Wood corridor.
Should of changed it back to the 90
; x70 or 70 holds no relevance any more
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 01, 2018, 05:11:58 PM
Should of changed it back to the 90
; x70 or 70 holds no relevance any more
If you want relevance then the 55 should also be renumbered, but it won't
The whole lot is out of sync. The old school will say the 94 should be the 56 but arh well.
Quote from: Kevin on April 01, 2018, 05:27:41 PM
If you want relevance then the 55 should also be renumbered, but it won't
Erm, there was the 54 and 56...
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 01, 2018, 05:11:58 PM
Should of changed it back to the 90
; x70 or 70 holds no relevance any more
I never liked it being the 70, should of been changed back to 90 when the route shortened back to Chemsley Wood, the X70 (in fairness) should be the X90.
Quote from: Jack on April 01, 2018, 05:30:18 PM
Erm, there was the 54 and 56...
Key word there being "was"...
Quote from: Jack on April 01, 2018, 05:30:18 PM
Erm, there was the 54 and 56...
What he's saying is the 55 and 94 service numbers don't don't fit in with each other.
And if you want relevance with each other one of them should be renumbered.
Quote from: Jack on April 01, 2018, 05:30:18 PM
I never liked it being the 70, should of been changed back to 90 when the route shortened back to Chemsley Wood, the X70 (in fairness) should be the X90.
X13 if you wanted them to fit in with each other, so it'd fit in with the X12.
Quote from: V89MOA on April 01, 2018, 05:33:23 PM
Key word there being "was"...
Which they both never got renumbererd and the numbers stayed as they was until the routes both got withdrawn. The 54 should be brought back.
Quote from: Jack on April 01, 2018, 05:37:03 PM
Which they both never got renumbererd and the numbers stayed as they was until the routes both got withdrawn. The 54 should be brought back.
Why would they renumber them when they were working well as a corridor? ::) ::)
Quote from: Jack on April 01, 2018, 05:37:03 PM
Which they both never got renumbererd and the numbers stayed as they was until the routes both got withdrawn. The 54 should be brought back.
Why?
Where did it go that the 55 doesn't serve today?
Quote from: 2206 on April 01, 2018, 05:41:48 PM
Why?
Where did it go that the 55 doesn't serve today?
55 doesn't serve all of the Yorks Estate and it doesn't go straight to the terminus. The main reason I said for it to come back was so it could help the Washwood Heath Road corridor with all the overcrowding since the demise of the daily Claribels 55, 56, daily 70 and 72.
Quote from: V89MOA on April 01, 2018, 05:40:58 PM
Why would they renumber them when they were working well as a corridor? ::) ::)
Never said to renumber the 55, that was someone else. I was talking about the 54 and 56 never got renumbered right up until there withdrawal.
Is the wash wood heath corridor overcrowded now then?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on April 01, 2018, 05:49:23 PM
Is the wash wood heath corridor overcrowded now then?
55 can't cope with Omnilinks anymore...
Quote from: Jack on April 01, 2018, 05:47:50 PM
I was talking about the 54 and 56 never got renumbered until there withdrawal.
Completely irrelevant to the point. Kevin mentioned renumbering the 55 because it is an odd number now along that corridor.
Quote from: V89MOA on April 01, 2018, 05:53:29 PM
Completely irrelevant to the point. Kevin mentioned renumbering the 55 because it is an odd number now along that corridor.
Apologies got a tad confused. If the 55 was to be renumbered to 'fit in' with the 94 could it be 95?
Quote from: Jack on April 01, 2018, 05:47:50 PM
55 doesn't serve all of the Yorks Estate and it doesn't go straight to the terminus. The main reason I said for it to come back was so it could help the Washwood Heath Road corridor with all the overcrowding since the demise of the daily Claribels 55, 56, daily 70 and 72.
It coming back wouldn't help, all they did was reroute it to the same route as the 55 overall frequency hasn't got worse
Came across a couple of Centro maps from 1998 and 1999 while having a rummage in the loft yesterday. A couple of Bristol Road routes from the time that I'd completely forgotten about:
949 Bham to Gannow - limited stop, Saturdays only (on the 1998 map but had gone by 1999)
961 Bham to Frankley - looked like a peak only service to complement the 61
944N Bham to Gannow via Edgbaston and Weoley Castle (pretty short-lived too).