Old bus routes

[Stuharris 6360]

In BCT days they did regularly

Nowadays, they can only operate within 5 minutes of a scheduled departure, and there must be a proven demand for it. You are not allowed just to put a duplicate out 5 minutes after a service bus to annoy another operator, it must be required by passenger demand.

That is how the V Festival service works. It is a registered 15 minute frequency, so those buses run however many passengers are on them, but extras slot in between if a bus doesn't clear the waiting queue.

Yes even in the days of the WMPTE, you would see Birmingham littered with Service Extras', but only on former BCT routes, very very rare you would see one on a North District route, although I don't think it was impossible, apart from the fact they didn't have Service Extra on the blind.

[Tony]

Yes even in the days of the WMPTE, you would see Birmingham littered with Service Extras', but only on former BCT routes, very very rare you would see one on a North District route, although I don't think it was impossible, apart from the fact they didn't have Service Extra on the blind.

There were loads of 'Service Extras' in the North division. North division, especially the old Midland Red garages were forever borrowing South Division buses which were always on Service Extras, and normally with some strange number combination as well, as ex Birmingham buses had two number reels and one letter reel, so for instance the 160 normally showed 16D - SERVICE EXTRA

[Stuharris 6360]

There were loads of 'Service Extras' in the North division. North division, especially the old Midland Red garages were forever borrowing South Division buses which were always on Service Extras, and normally with some strange number combination as well, as ex Birmingham buses had two number reels and one letter reel, so for instance the 160 normally showed 16D - SERVICE EXTRA

Oh right Tony, never realised that.

[Walsall1955]

Yes even in the days of the WMPTE, you would see Birmingham littered with Service Extras', but only on former BCT routes, very very rare you would see one on a North District route, although I don't think it was impossible, apart from the fact they didn't have Service Extra on the blind.

That's my recollection of North Division in PTE days, extras not operated even if regularly passengers left behind.
Where "SERVICE EXTRA" was sometimes used in North Division was where a borrowed bus (ex BCT garage) couldn't display an accurate destination, so Service Extra would be displayed perhaps adjudged to be slightly better than blank.

[Walsall1955]

Here's a 176 destination display "76T" "SERVICE EXTRA" in WMPTE days...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5400444859/in/photolist-9edG7g-99sGD4-92S7WE-8V4YCd-8ToK2v-8TrJQW-8TrJQS-8ToAme-8T1cSe-8MzA4e-8Lv8Bm-8LrREv-8MGBT9-8MCkVu-8LcCAq-8GqfMh-8GqfMA-8FKRbx-8FNUmm-8FyuYV-8w3GAu-8vTadv-8vGHMh-8uRjPS-8uMTwT-8uc4oF-8LdSD1-8La48D-8LcVgw-8GogUk-8GokNc-8Fp7K3-8F8Xa3-8xQSHX-8w1jpZ-8vZrgr-8w1dac-8u5prD-8u7Wsd-8sfDQr-8saNe5-8qU4KT-8hBoh2-8gLnHN-7ZzWQG-7ZzWQL-8tZoGN-8tHx6V-8gYprC-8gYcVh

[Tony]

Here's a 176 destination display "76T" "SERVICE EXTRA" in WMPTE days...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5400444859/in/photolist-9edG7g-99sGD4-92S7WE-8V4YCd-8ToK2v-8TrJQW-8TrJQS-8ToAme-8T1cSe-8MzA4e-8Lv8Bm-8LrREv-8MGBT9-8MCkVu-8LcCAq-8GqfMh-8GqfMA-8FKRbx-8FNUmm-8FyuYV-8w3GAu-8vTadv-8vGHMh-8uRjPS-8uMTwT-8uc4oF-8LdSD1-8La48D-8LcVgw-8GogUk-8GokNc-8Fp7K3-8F8Xa3-8xQSHX-8w1jpZ-8vZrgr-8w1dac-8u5prD-8u7Wsd-8sfDQr-8saNe5-8qU4KT-8hBoh2-8gLnHN-7ZzWQG-7ZzWQL-8tZoGN-8tHx6V-8gYprC-8gYcVh

That is rare in the fact that most ex BCT buses didn't have any letters after L on the blinds. L slightly too low was the more normal substitute for a 1

[j789]

In BCT days they did regularly

Nowadays, they can only operate within 5 minutes of a scheduled departure, and there must be a proven demand for it. You are not allowed just to put a duplicate out 5 minutes after a service bus to annoy another operator, it must be required by passenger demand.

That is how the V Festival service works. It is a registered 15 minute frequency, so those buses run however many passengers are on them, but extras slot in between if a bus doesn't clear the waiting queue.

Would it be possible to register another service with a different route number along the same route to get around this or would that still not be allowed?

[Tony]

Would it be possible to register another service with a different route number along the same route to get around this or would that still not be allowed?

But you've still got to run to the registered time, so you might as well just add those journies on the original registration. Duplicating within 5 minutes is the only way to run extras when you don't actually know beforehand if a journey is going to be required

[j789]

Rather off topic so I apologise but do you think NXWM would ever run the 50A to Wythall during the day as well as peaks. One bus an hour missing out Driuds Heath and going straight over the Maypole to Wythall wouldn't make much difference surely and could attract some new passengers too as even the train isn't that much quicker into the city from there.

[Dom]

Nowadays, they can only operate within 5 minutes of a scheduled departure, and there must be a proven demand for it. You are not allowed just to put a duplicate out 5 minutes after a service bus to annoy another operator, it must be required by passenger demand.

Would it have to be registered? Say if the 126 got screwed between Dudley and Birmingham, no 126 due into wolves for over 35-40 mins would they then be allowed to operate one? Obviously a hypothetical situation.

[Tony]

Would it have to be registered? Say if the 126 got screwed between Dudley and Birmingham, no 126 due into wolves for over 35-40 mins would they then be allowed to operate one? Obviously a hypothetical situation.

That's just running a timetabled journey with a different bus! DVSA don't care what bus runs what journey

[Justin Tyme]

Rather off topic so I apologise but do you think NXWM would ever run the 50A to Wythall during the day as well as peaks. One bus an hour missing out Driuds Heath and going straight over the Maypole to Wythall wouldn't make much difference surely and could attract some new passengers too as even the train isn't that much quicker into the city from there.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be enough trade to make it worthwhile.  Johnsons 150 now runs hourly and Diamond S3W provides an hourly (if indirect) link from Wythall to Solihull.  Wythall is a mainly quite affluent area and I cannot see it generating more than a handful of passengers.

When Smiths' Your Bus started almost 30 years ago, morning and evening peak through buses between Alcester and Birmingham did good trade through Wythall, but even they didn't really bother off-peak.

[j789]

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be enough trade to make it worthwhile.  Johnsons 150 now runs hourly and Diamond S3W provides an hourly (if indirect) link from Wythall to Solihull.  Wythall is a mainly quite affluent area and I cannot see it generating more than a handful of passengers.

When Smiths' Your Bus started almost 30 years ago, morning and evening peak through buses between Alcester and Birmingham did good trade through Wythall, but even they didn't really bother off-peak.

Fair enough, I just thought with the frequency being so high, one bus taken from Druids Heath could run to Wythall instead. I guess apart from School children and pensioners they probably isn't much call for it. It is a shame as it is a sizeable area with areas of social housing so potential passengers are there.

[Mike K]

Here's a 176 destination display "76T" "SERVICE EXTRA" in WMPTE days...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/5400444859/in/photolist-9edG7g-99sGD4-92S7WE-8V4YCd-8ToK2v-8TrJQW-8TrJQS-8ToAme-8T1cSe-8MzA4e-8Lv8Bm-8LrREv-8MGBT9-8MCkVu-8LcCAq-8GqfMh-8GqfMA-8FKRbx-8FNUmm-8FyuYV-8w3GAu-8vTadv-8vGHMh-8uRjPS-8uMTwT-8uc4oF-8LdSD1-8La48D-8LcVgw-8GogUk-8GokNc-8Fp7K3-8F8Xa3-8xQSHX-8w1jpZ-8vZrgr-8w1dac-8u5prD-8u7Wsd-8sfDQr-8saNe5-8qU4KT-8hBoh2-8gLnHN-7ZzWQG-7ZzWQL-8tZoGN-8tHx6V-8gYprC-8gYcVh

That's a cracking picture. Never realised any of these made it onto the 176 (the X2 for the younger members of the site). That Bull Ring bus station was a grim place.

[Squiz1971]

That's a cracking picture. Never realised any of these made it onto the 176 (the X2 for the younger members of the site). That Bull Ring bus station was a grim place.

It certainly was dark, full of diesel fumes and always seemed to have puddles dotted around from the leaky roof