London Midland Trains

[Solo1]

Why isn't there a bus service to match the chase line if it's that bad a I know there's a x51 could they not increase
The service

[Walsall1955]

Why isn't there a bus service to match the chase line if it's that bad a I know there's a x51 could they not increase
The service

Road traffic congestion is an obstacle to the success of a competing bus service (absent of enforced bus bus priority measures throughout its length).
On good days the train will be superior to any bus service in terms of journey time.
Just a pity that the capacity problem is many months away from a solution.
On bad days both road and rail transport each has the capacity to be rubbish in their own way.
It appears that passengers currently prefer the train despite its problems.
When the most recent incarnation of the X31 ran a few years ago passenger numbers were disappointing commercially (average only about 10 to 20 per journey from memory) and not considered worthy of subsidy by the authorities concerned in view of subsidy being put into the competing railway service.

[B61 ANDREW]

It looks like the Worcester/Bromsgrove/New Street route has similar problems to The Chase line.   :( :( 

NO plans are being drawn up to combat "very high levels of demand" at Bromsgrove Station, despite passengers being turned away from a service which arrived already full.

Bromsgrove resident Vivien Earnshaw tried to board the 10.43am London Midland service from Worcester Foregate Street to Birmingham New Street on Monday, December 5.

Mrs Earnshaw was told the two-carriage train was full on arrival and after being forced to carry on her journey via bus, she questioned if recent £100m upgrades are working.


The above quote has appeared in the local press and the BBC Radio H & W website.

[Tony]

It looks like the Worcester/Bromsgrove/New Street route has similar problems to The Chase line.   :( :( 

NO plans are being drawn up to combat "very high levels of demand" at Bromsgrove Station, despite passengers being turned away from a service which arrived already full.

Bromsgrove resident Vivien Earnshaw tried to board the 10.43am London Midland service from Worcester Foregate Street to Birmingham New Street on Monday, December 5.

Mrs Earnshaw was told the two-carriage train was full on arrival and after being forced to carry on her journey via bus, she questioned if recent £100m upgrades are working.

Plans are being drawn up.
http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/londonmidland/pressreleases/ps100m-railway-upgrade-means-12-day-closure-of-the-line-at-bromsgrove-1585354

Yes, same timescale as the Chase Line, but definitely plans in place

[Bob]

Road traffic congestion is an obstacle to the success of a competing bus service (absent of enforced bus bus priority measures throughout its length).
On good days the train will be superior to any bus service in terms of journey time.
Just a pity that the capacity problem is many months away from a solution.
On bad days both road and rail transport each has the capacity to be rubbish in their own way.
It appears that passengers currently prefer the train despite its problems.
When the most recent incarnation of the X31 ran a few years ago passenger numbers were disappointing commercially (average only about 10 to 20 per journey from memory) and not considered worthy of subsidy by the authorities concerned in view of subsidy being put into the competing railway service.

That's because whoever designed the X31 at Arriva must have been insane.  An hourly route up the most congested pat of motorway in the Midlands? ??? You'd only need something to happen and people would be stuck either end for potentially hours. A well run well publicised say half hourly X51 could have potential.  You'd get Cannock to Walsall passengers too

[Tony]

That's because whoever designed the X31 at Arriva must have been insane.  An hourly route up the most congested pat of motorway in the Midlands? ??? You'd only need something to happen and people would be stuck either end for potentially hours. A well run well publicised say half hourly X51 could have potential.  You'd get Cannock to Walsall passengers too

The X51 journies are timetabled to take approximately 75 minutes, the train 40 minutes, so even if one train doesn't turn up, you still get into Birmingham faster by waiting 30 min for the next.

That is the problem a competing bus service has. Very few people want to spend an extra hour of their day commuting

[Bob]

Did the 951 take that long back in the day? Surely it could be sped up a bit???

[T840MAK]

Did the 951 take that long back in the day? Surely it could be sped up a bit???

I'm not sure when the 957 stopped running but don't forget that there's been an overall increase in traffic.

[Tony]

Did the 951 take that long back in the day? Surely it could be sped up a bit???

Yes it did, it also had more stops between Walsall and Birmingham, how do you propose speeding it up,
1) drive faster (over the speed limit)
2) fewer stops (don't pick passengers up)
3) jump over any cars and traffic jams
4) use the motorway like the X31 did.

Yes I know a couple of those are being flippant, but don't you think if there was a way of competing one of Arriva, NX, or even a new op for the area like Central Buses would have tried by now?

NX Will run anything that would turn a profit

[Bob]

That's the thing tho 951 used to be really busy and even with the train as competition then at some point it must have just dropped. What went wrong?  If nx are interested in profit they'll definitely never want Arriva's cannock op then lol

[Bob]

Just out of interest when did the heritage DMU stop being used? I've a vague memory of one rocking up with an ancient interior even older than a 114. And having massive seats that were really comfy puts today's trains to shame lol

[Tony]

Just out of interest when did the heritage DMU stop being used? I've a vague memory of one rocking up with an ancient interior even older than a 114. And having massive seats that were really comfy puts today's trains to shame lol

All the heritage DMU were roughly the same age 1957-62. The ones with the big seats were the ex Marylebone 115s which were some of the newer ones.

I think it was around 1993 when they disappeared from the Chase line

[Westy]

That's the thing tho 951 used to be really busy and even with the train as competition then at some point it must have just dropped. What went wrong?  If nx are interested in profit they'll definitely never want Arriva's cannock op then lol

Sure the reason given at the time they withdrew the majority of the 951's from Cannock was delays caused by construction of the Toll Road?

Nothing was ever mentioned about declining numbers.

(Used to like stepping outside my house & catching ONE bus to Brum.

The only regret I have about the Bridge being pedestrinised in Walsall, that if the through service from Hednesford to Dudley still operated today, I'd only have one bus to catch, not two!)

[Steve3229vp]

There was a plan for the remaining class 323's up north to move down to London Midland, is this still happening ?
The cross city line can then be 6 coaches on most journeys which is needed.

[Roy]

There was a plan for the remaining class 323's up north to move down to London Midland, is this still happening ?
The cross city line can then be 6 coaches on most journeys which is needed.

We will find out in June when the successful bidder for the new West Midlands franchise is announced. 

The leasing company want to move all 323s to the Midlands.  However, they will need to be refurbished if they are retained.  With interest rates so low, it is possible that the new franchise may decide that it is more cost effective to replace them with new trains.  However, the 323s do have the advantage that their acceleration is far superior to modern EMUs, making them ideal for the Cross City line with stations close together.