West Dudley Consultation

[Tony]

Dont think to be fair @Tony that argument holds up at all when you look at the 140/241 fitted timetable that we had from 1984 to 2018 untill well I dont have to say it do I?

That argument holds up perfectly.

In tendered networks some places get service reductions and others get increases, exactly the same as commercial networks depending on demand. The original statement that tendering would stop reductions is completely wrong. Andy Burnham is just discovering that a tendered nework will cost more as the operators still make a profit, but you have to add on the tendering authority costs as well, so when money is tight you will get even more cuts

[richardjones210368]

That argument holds up perfectly.

In tendered networks some places get service reductions and others get increases, exactly the same as commercial networks depending on demand. The original statement that tendering would stop reductions is completely wrong. Andy Burnham is just discovering that a tendered nework will cost more as the operators still make a profit, but you have to add on the tendering authority costs as well, so when money is tight you will get even more cuts

Aside from any TfWM tenders you cannot say in any form your argumemt holds up against the replacement of the 140/241 from Dudley to Quinton Stag with.the X8 I did an audit on the 140/241 in 2008 2012 2015 & 2018 and in no way did the passenger usage levels decline in fact 2012 to 2018 they increased even when you factor in the overhead costs of the operator and the concessionerys and insurance costs by replacing the 140/241 with the X8 you have increased the profit margin on the route by 4% and reduced the overall frequency by 13% I have had my calculations audited by an accountant not in my Institute but works for Companies House who found them to be structually sound and will be using them as the foundation of my proposal to The Mayor  for a QEP on the X8 together with the report I am.compiling to be submitted to the OfTC on the reliability of the route if and its a big if The Mayor is relected I will use the data for a proposal for a QEP on the X8 to the WMCA.

[2206]

Aside from any TfWM tenders you cannot say in any form your argumemt holds up against the replacement of the 140/241 from Dudley to Quinton Stag with.the X8 I did an audit on the 140/241 in 2008 2012 2015 & 2018 and in no way did the passenger usage levels decline in fact 2012 to 2018 they increased even when you factor in the overhead costs of the operator and the concessionerys and insurance costs by replacing the 140/241 with the X8 you have increased the profit margin on the route by 4% and reduced the overall frequency by 13% I have had my calculations audited by an accountant not in my Institute but works for Companies House who found them to be structually sound and will be using as the foundation of my proposal to The Mayor  for a QEP on the X8 together with the report I am.compiling to be submitted to the OfTC on the reliability of the route if and its a big if The Mayor is relected I will use the data for a proposal for a QEP on the X8 to the WMCA.

Strange your complaining about a frequency decrease. When i'm sure you stated elsewhere that you wanted to replace the X8 with an all stop 9A and decrease the frequency to every 30 minutes.
From what I can see passengers on the X8 travelling to Bearwood, Five Ways and Birmingham City Centre now have an every 20 minute frequency when they previously had an every 30 minute 140.

They used the same formula in Bartley Green the 22 is now the X22 with a similar

During the day the current frequency on the X22 seems adequate from what I've seen. As has been said NX aren't a charity, if there isn't the demand for a higher frequency then there won't be one.
People who work at/visit the QE, now have a direct service from Bartley Green and that link seems to be fairly well used from what I've seen as well. There didn't used to be a direct service, so from what I've seen it seems some people have benefited from that change.

[richardjones210368]

Strange your complaining about a frequency decrease.
When i'm sure you stated elsewhere that you wanted to replace the X8 with an all stop 9A and decrease the frequency to every 30 minutes.

Is the 9A I propose not the reliable freqency of the erstwhile 140 to Birmingham half hourly or am I missing something with the 14A & 24 which are already subsidsed by the WMCA to restore the fitted timetable of a 15min frequency to The Hailstone my complaint is the frequency reduction from Dudley to Quinton Stag via Rowley which has been cut from 15mins to 20mins can  you not see that a half hourly 9A fitted with the 13A would give an even spaced frequency to Birmingham what use currently is the off peak  X8 & 13A both departing at about half past the hour? The 9A & 14  restored to half hourly again fitted would restore the reliabiliy and a 15min service. Most people use the train from Blackheath to Birmingham why would you want a 20min frequency X8 not fitted with the 13A currently when you could have a 9A/13A fitted 15 min frequency & alongside the X10 & the X8 & X10 are always together only Quinton.Cemetry  to The Shell Corner gets a reduction to & from Brum 2 stops only get an overall service reduction & my data indicates usage to Brum is low @Tony ? I can only see towards Brum Long Lane Libary, Towcraft, The Angling Shop, The Dilshad & Cemetry and my research indicates no one likes not having a stopping service from The Stag &.coupled with better relibility how can you possibly argue this proposed QEP benefits far more than the current service?

[Tony]

Aside from any TfWM tenders you cannot say in any form your argumemt holds up against the replacement of the 140/241 from Dudley to Quinton Stag with.the X8 I did an audit on the 140/241 in 2008 2012 2015 & 2018 and in no way did the passenger usage levels decline in fact 2012 to 2018 they increased even when you factor in the overhead costs of the operator and the concessionerys and insurance costs by replacing the 140/241 with the X8 you have increased the profit margin on the route by 4% and reduced the overall frequency by 13% I have had my calculations audited by an accountant not in my Institute but works for Companies House who found them to be structually sound and will be using them as the foundation of my proposal to The Mayor  for a QEP on the X8 together with the report I am.compiling to be submitted to the OfTC on the reliability of the route if and its a big if The Mayor is relected I will use the data for a proposal for a QEP on the X8 to the WMCA.

I'm not referring to your completely biased view of small area, I'm referring to entire franchised networks like London and commercial networks like the West Midlands.

Both have frequency increases and decreases as required by passenger numbers. And being honest I cannot see anyone being interested in your supposed audited calculations

[MasterPlan]

People who work at/visit the QE, now have a direct service from Bartley Green and that link seems to be fairly well used from what I've seen as well. There didn't used to be a direct service, so from what I've seen it seems some people have benefited from that change.

Second time I've seen this said now. Pretty sure Bartley Green have always had a direct link to the QE...

[Sayeed]

Second time I've seen this said now. Pretty sure Bartley Green have always had a direct link to the QE...

No, you could be wrong. Can't you see he knows more than any of us because he mentions about X20 routes regularly?

[2206]

Second time I've seen this said now. Pretty sure Bartley Green have always had a direct link to the QE...

The X64 went via Selly Oak and Weoley Castle didn't it. Current route seems more direct from what I can see.
And the Quinton Road area never used to have a service to the QE either.
Plus there is additional capacity, 3 double deckers an hour for passengers going to Bartley Grenn and Quinton Road. And I regularly see large numbers of passenger board and alight the X22 there.

Other than the reliability problems, the current routes seem to be very popular routes from what I see.  The Birmingham to University/QE section also regularly has standing loads at peak times on the double deckers, with heavy passenger numbers boarding at the Uni and QE to the City Centre and Bath Row.

[richardjones210368]

The X64 went via Sell Oak and Weoley Castle didn't it. Current route seems more direct from what I can see.
And the Quinton Road area never used to have a service to the QE either.
Plus there is additional capacity, 3 double deckers an hour for passengers going to Bartley Grenn and Quinton Road. And I regularly see large numbers of passenger board and alight the X22 there.

Other than the reliability problems, the current routes seem to be very popular routes from what I see.

Yes @Tony was talking rubbish as always to try to prove his point the X64 always linked Bartley Green with the QE and at one point went indirect via Balmoral Road along the 22 route and before that was the 448 I do not think he knows anything about the buses he supposedly runs he seems oblivious to the complaints I hear the users of the 22 who lost their link to Harborne whatever excuses he makes the X20 X21 X22 are all about improving margins to 4% the old 29 & 29A used to run every 10Min's from Weoley Castle to the City the current service is every 20 Min's the same sort of frequency cut seen on the 140/241 which he has no answer for. Didnt Diamond Bus 647 used to link the Quinton Road area to the QE? Remember this is the West Dudley Consultation and were off topic again.

[2206]

Yes @Tony was talking rubbish as always to try to prove his point the X64 always linked Bartley Green with the QE and at one point went indirect via Balmoral Road along the 22 route and before that was the 448 I do not think he knows anything about the buses he supposedly runs he seems oblivious to the complaints I hear the users of the 22 who lost their link to Harborne whatever excuses he makes the X20 X21 X22 are all about improving margins to 4% the old 29 & 29A used to run every 10Min's from Weoley Castle to the City the current service is every 20 Min's the same sort of frequency cut seen on the 140/241 which he has no answer for. Didnt Diamond Bus 647 used to link the Quinton Road area to the QE? Remember this is the West Dudley Consultation and were off topic again.

But you can't have a direct link to everywhere you want to go. There are many people who have to change buses every day to get to where they want to go and don't have a problem with it.
I regularly see a small number people change at Barnes Hill, who don't have a problem with changing to get to Harborne. From Barnes Hill the 23 runs frequently to Harborne, so you won't have a long wait till one turns up.

Diamond 647 was an hourly off peak only service, more than likely useless to most people.
The capacity increase to Birmingham City Centre and Bath Row from the Uni and QE on that section was also needed due to there being demand for a higher frequency.
The X21 copes perfectly fine connecting the Weoley Castle and the City Centre on a 20 minute frequency. I don't think there Is demand for a 10 minute service from what I can see, if there is no demand then it won't run to such a high frequency.

Also a capcity increase for people going from Barltey Green to the QE, who now have a more direct servie than before.

[richardjones210368]

But you can't have a direct link to everywhere you want to go. There are many people who have to change buses every day to get to where they want to go and don't have a problem with it.
I regularly see a small number people change at Barnes Hill, who don't have a problem with changing to get to Harborne. From Barnes Hill the 23 runs frequently to Harborne, so you won't have a long wait till one turns up.

Diamond 647 was an hourly off peak only service, more than likely useless to most people.
The capacity increase to Birmingham City Centre and Bath Row on that section was also needed, to meet demand.
The X21 copes perfectly fine connecting the Weoley Castle and the City Centre on a 20 minute frequency. I don't think there Is demand for a 10 minute service from what I can see, if there is no demand then it won't run to such a high frequency.

Also a capcity increase for people going from Barltey Green to the QE, who now have a more direct servie than before.

From using the 002 and visiting clients at WC the 27 to Northfield is very unpopular and rammed, when I speak to folk outside Lloyds Bank the feeling is the same as in Blackheath NXWM took a good service and cut it to improve its margins for the PLC. it I never find anyone with anything good to say about the X21 remember it runs to the same frequency as the X64 so how is it better? or with folks views of X22 at The War Memorial and the 23 is just plain bonkers on many occasions there a two and three in succession as in Blackheath I don't think anyone at NXWM actually ever uses the routes because the planning is bonkers!

[Stu]

Chaps, lets please keep this thread on-topic, last time I checked the QE, Selly Oak, Harborne and Bartley Green are not in West Dudley.

[Roy]

Considering the Merry Hill to Wall Heath section will now have a bus every 20 minutes, instead of the current 15 which is every 15 and it currently gets busy, i'd imagine they'll stick with E400's. It'll also compensate for Spring Hill to Wolverhampton dropping to 3 bph as opposed to the current 4.

In addition, looking at the 15 and 16 timetables, it looks as if the two routes could interwork from about 2 pm onwards.

[BusMan Greg]

Will the 8 be operated by Pensnett or Wolverhampton?

[Stuharris 6360]

Will the 8 be operated by Pensnett or Wolverhampton?

Wolverhampton will operate the 8 with Pensnett getting the 17 17A and 57 so its been mooted.