Vehicles in service in TWM Livery

[Tony]

Route branding is awful when it ends up on the wrong route - just adds confusion to joe public. Personally it is better what NX are doing with introducing Platinum buses on certain routes, which they are unlikely to stray far from. Diamond have done it with Signature in Solihull and has worked very well.

So that is why I saw a Signature Merc on the 16 this week.

[Mike K]

Route branding is awful when it ends up on the wrong route - just adds confusion to joe public. Personally it is better what NX are doing with introducing Platinum buses on certain routes, which they are unlikely to stray far from. Diamond have done it with Signature in Solihull and has worked very well.

I've been told Platinum vehicles will be banned from straying 'off route'.

Wasn't the same said about Central's hybrids.

Apart from a couple of crazy weeks many months ago, Central's hybrids do rarely stray. Now WN's are a different matter...

[Tony]

Route branding is awful when it ends up on the wrong route - just adds confusion to joe public. Personally it is better what NX are doing with introducing Platinum buses on certain routes, which they are unlikely to stray far from. Diamond have done it with Signature in Solihull and has worked very well.

I've been told Platinum vehicles will be banned from straying 'off route'.

Wasn't the same said about Central's hybrids.

Apart from a couple of crazy weeks many months ago, Central's hybrids do rarely stray. Now WN's are a different matter...

The only thing limiting BCs Hybrids is driver knowledge

[mranon]

are drivers not supposed to be type trained and knowledgable about each vehicle type at their garage?

[tc]

Surely it must be adopted across the fleet save perhaps vehicles likely to be withdrawn in, say, the next 2 years. If not NX will be running with dual standard liveries for years to come not to mention the Platinum livery and the Coventry variant. Have to say I can't understand why NX seem to regard this matter as commercially sensitive now that the new livery has been widely reported in the media.

So operators like Nottingham, Trent, Go North East get praise on here for being very good operators (no argument from me there) but have multiple liveries in much smaller fleets than NXWM, yet the thought of NXWM having multiple liveries horrifies people

If (God forbid) NXWM have multiple liveries ,but keep each livery on a given route,then it would not be too bad......problem is multi liveries on each route.
I cannot give NXWM much credit for keeping branded buses on correct routes as it is,never mind extending the concept.
I will admit that ANY branding is a pet hate of mine,and any visit to Derby merely reinforces that opinion.The overall appearance of Derby would suggest one major operator (Arriva) and hosts of smaller unconnected operators who could just as easily be completely independent of each other.
If you want a network marketed to the public,then use one fleet name and livery........bet most people in Derby don't have a clue who Black Cat are,and probably don't care either.
I can only repeat that for 20 years my brother was MD of a medium sized Company,NBC,then Badgerline then Firstgroup and never needed to use this new fashioned gimmick.

Route branding has been around for a long time!

https://flic.kr/p/aJX9Fv 

https://flic.kr/p/byW9v6

Excellent Badgerline route branding ;)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mkIaxTSsFi0/U9YPYwC7aVI/AAAAAAAANFM/pePZa7tuHts/s1600/G904-GWS.Badgerline.jpg

[winston]

Well Trent's fleet is all in different liveries intentionally for their routes - certainly noticed that (along with NCT) when I've been to Nottingham numerous times last year. At least they look similar in design and as most are route branded it makes sense. Would be great to know why they don't do the repaints from now in the new livery considering it is going to become the standard one - they can start getting going now considering it's going to be the new standard livery. Why just save it for the new buses? I for one would appreciate YW and AG Scanias being repainted into it - will make a positive impression on the passengers - combined with refurbished seats. I mean they could get going by redoing PB's two Scanias in at the moment - paint a third into it and the 952 would already benefit from refurbished buses in the correct standard livery.

However enough moaning - I must say well done to NX for their heavy investment in the fleet - having just read the news article they've released that is an impressive amount of new buses in 2015. Shows they are really looking to improve the quality of their services and improving journeys.

It's by far the most sensible solution to phase the new livery in on new buses only from 2015 onwards, it took circa 7 years to get the whole fleet in the same livery (even then there are still numerous variations of standard livery). The way new buses are allocated to specific routes/corridors these days, NX should introduce the new image route by route or on a specific corridor, passengers will then easily identify the new investment as routes are upgraded. Much like how TWM low floor livery was introduced, with the remainder of the step entrance fleet retaining red band livery, it got really confusing when NX started painting single decker step entrance B10B's & Lynx in what was always the low floor livery. I've seen complete new liveries introduced from scratch across the entire fleet from back when WMT ditched blue & cream in favour silver/grey blue, and it didn't half look untidy when a garage had a handful of buses painted in the livery that were dotted around random routes. Maybe in the future, some of the existing fleet could start to receive the new colours following refurbishment, but I'd only like to only see it introduced on a specific batch of buses at anyone time, and therefore again allowing a group of routes or a corridor to be upgraded in the new colours one area at a time.

Looks as though the reserve fleet are going to have a buses summer dealing with 170+ withdrawals.....

[Stevo]

The trouble with a two-tier system - new buses in new livery, older ones in old livery - is that the public sees the older livery as second rate and thinks they're getting poorer vehicles. This is what First found so they extended Barbie livery across the fleet. The multiple liveries of fleets like Trent and Nottingham are something different. On a slightly different matter, you can't easily tell in Nottingham whether a vehicle is Nottingham or Trent Barton as they both have route liveries.

[JoNi]

Many of comments reflect the reality that The Transforming Bus Travel initiative is currently short term by its nature.
There has never been a commitment made on future expectations of NX vehicle lifespan. This would allow a straight forward calculation of the annual number of vehicles required.
There has never been an expectation that passenger numbers will grow requiring increased fleet size as in London.
The refurbishment process seems to be an attempt to patch up the existing fleet rather than a vehicle mid life revamp which could include being repainted into the new livery.
I'm sure the external colour (as against the condition) of the bus is pretty low on the average bus user as against it running on time, having a clear destination display amongst other things.

Long term vision is required from leaders that bus users and employees can relate to. Not the sort that says Birmingham is going to have Sprint in the future.

[Stu]

The new buses in the new livery aren't going to start being delivered until March, so they shouldn't start repainting the old buses into new livery before then, otherwise it sort of devalues the point of the new livery.

Maybe we'll start seeing some of the 'newer' older buses get repainted into the new livery from next year, I wouldn't expect to see any done before then.

In the meantime, I'd like to see the current buses just 'tidied up' a little, those that have been in red/white for some time now.

[Liberator9]

Well Trent's fleet is all in different liveries intentionally for their routes - certainly noticed that (along with NCT) when I've been to Nottingham numerous times last year. At least they look similar in design and as most are route branded it makes sense. Would be great to know why they don't do the repaints from now in the new livery considering it is going to become the standard one - they can start getting going now considering it's going to be the new standard livery. Why just save it for the new buses? I for one would appreciate YW and AG Scanias being repainted into it - will make a positive impression on the passengers - combined with refurbished seats. I mean they could get going by redoing PB's two Scanias in at the moment - paint a third into it and the 952 would already benefit from refurbished buses in the correct standard livery.

However enough moaning - I must say well done to NX for their heavy investment in the fleet - having just read the news article they've released that is an impressive amount of new buses in 2015. Shows they are really looking to improve the quality of their services and improving journeys.

It's by far the most sensible solution to phase the new livery in on new buses only from 2015 onwards, it took circa 7 years to get the whole fleet in the same livery (even then there are still numerous variations of standard livery). The way new buses are allocated to specific routes/corridors these days, NX should introduce the new image route by route or on a specific corridor, passengers will then easily identify the new investment as routes are upgraded.

My mistake Tony - perhaps Diamond aren't that great at letting them not stray at times  ;)

That does make sense actually Winston - say the 51 gets new buses, then the new livery can be associated with that and people can see it has been upgraded. Then NX can address the livery route by route, which actually is an organised way of doing it. Means the main corridor routes can stand out with the fringe routes in the older NX livery, which is fine considering the 2012 plus ones have the smart vivid red livery. Noticed the YW and AG Single decks are in good condition anyway externally - if they could just do the seat cushions that would be fine.

One thing I have noticed is that garages could do with standardising on replacement seat cushions. Rode recently refurbished 4383 this afternoon and already has a new "old style" TWM lower seat. Amazed they still have them in stock  ;) Noticed 2115 the other day had two "newer" TWM seat cushions - despite those buses never had that moquette anyway.

[John]

Rode recently refurbished 4383 this afternoon and already has a new "old style" TWM lower seat.

4242 is exactly the same, it has an old TWM seat at the back downstairs

[Liberator9]

I'd love to know how they still have stocks of them!  ;) I think I saw on here that one of BC's Enviro 400s has one already as well.

[Kevin_Brum12]

In some respects the new red livery has come as a result of a realisation that any vehicle with a large area white livery will be very difficult to keep clean, particularly if it is in the winter.  A dirty bus does not present a good image.   This is something British Rail discovered in the 70's - they decided to paint their refurbished DMU's out of dull BR blue into white with a blue band.  Unfortunately the white did not stay white for very long and the refurbished units were soon sent back for a repaint (this time in corporate blue and grey).

The launch of the current livery was awful - with some buses turned out with TWM logos, some TWM logos with NX corporate branding, some with the grey connector bars, some not, some ancient rubbish repainted into new colours.   It was badly executed and is a legacy of the disastrous Richard Bowker reign.    ::)

Still it will keep the enthusiast happy, firstly keeping an eye out for red and platinum vehicles, then as re-painting gets done the vehicles in older colours with interest intensifying once the total goes below a hundred.  And then as the last ones are scrapped or have a trip to the paintbrush the whole process starts again.

At least its more interesting though than 100% red London!

[The Real 4778]

Maybe more interesting, but the civic pride that London retains by keeping sovereignty of the image it wants its buses to portray, is worth far more.  If the West Midlands' local councils had half an idea of marketing their region, they would (amongst many other 'soft' factors) dictate that tendered routes be operated by bus fleets decorated in a livery relevant to the area they serve, and not some half-baked corporate rubbish changed on a whim.

[Tony]

Maybe more interesting, but the civic pride that London retains by keeping sovereignty of the image it wants its buses to portray, is worth far more.  If the West Midlands' local councils had half an idea of marketing their region, they would (amongst many other 'soft' factors) dictate that tendered routes be operated by bus fleets decorated in a livery relevant to the area they serve, and not some half-baked corporate rubbish changed on a whim.

I quite like Central Buses livery  :D

Problem is a lot of tendered journeys only make up one or two trips a day, what is that bus supposed to do the rest of the day