Are Arriva going to fail in the west midlands

[PM]

I don't see the arriva threat personally. They have made a mess of the north east, their manchester presence and welsh presence is ever decreasing. I don't think NXWM and diamond have much to worry about-if MRN had wanted to stay in the west midlands they would have kept more of MRN/stevensons routes in the areas as opposed to giving them up

And of course are still withdrawing (see thread about 112 being cut short at Sutton Coldfield)

I don't think you can judge Arriva's strategy by a curtailment on the 112! They've played the okey cokey with the 112 several times before, the problem with it is it runs hourly on an already over bussed corridor, and generally runs in tandem with the 110 between Sutton and Birmingham. This isn't surprising really.

Arriva will target areas that they can actually make inroads without having to squeeze inbetween multiple NX vehicles. Don't forget the NX network is hardly progressive in all areas and there are gaps that they haven't bothered to plug due to lack of money and complacency.

And that's the point, why does everybody think they have to engage NX? They might play their own game?

The curtailment of the 112 illustates a policy of managed decline over many years, punctuated by periods of investment. The NX network is pretty comprehensive!! You'll struggle to find a more comprehensive one anywhere in the country from one operator fair enough if arriva can see new travel opportunities good luck to them but I cannot see it happening

I think you'll find the curtailment of the 112 is more indicative of it failing to fit and failing to build traffic on an overbussed corridor, and nothing more. All operators make changes all the time.

NX may have a comprehensive network, but they don't look after it.

Well they kind of do seeing as patronage is growing and the network is pretty much as comprehensive as it wa in WMPTE times
[/quote

I'm not about to engage in another fruitless discussion with the rose tinted brigade. I think you'll find my opinions are balanced, when Arriva screw up I kick them in the way I do NX or anybody else. There are far too many on here that think NX are the crowning glory and need to get out and about from a passengers point of view and not a spotter's or enthusiast's. On that note I will bow out :-)

I do not think NatEx WM are the crowning glory indeed people on here would probably say I slam them too much and are overly kind towards diamond. Yes, National Express have faults ie dirty buses etc but this is steadily improving and no one could surely fault the comprehensive network could they?

[JackC]

Yes they will fail.  Miserably. They havent got a  bloody clue. Clapped out Darts being repainted,  one day a Midland bus next an Arriva then a midland with  an Arriva logo! Poor image, a load of mainly empty inherited routes ( Lets face it not one is busy enough to fill a Midibus). They couldnt get it together when they took over Chase why should Midland be any different? I still hope they sell up and get out of Cannock

Why bother using anything other than 'clapped out' Darts if their services are as you say 'not busy enough to fill a midibus'. Surely, if the services aren't that popular then why should they warrant anything but a Dart? You have to take into account expenditure and profit here - if they're not making enough profit from the services to cover the expenditure of new buses then why should they? Yes, Arriva are a massive group and yes, if they wanted they could likely replace every single bus in the Midland fleet with brand new ones. But it'd cause a massive loss and in business, you don't want a loss at all. Arriva will expand Wednesfield slowly but surely as the profit rolls in slowly but surely. New buses won't come around until they can make enough profit to buy them and there's no other way around it.

[Bob]

Itll be closed before any bloody 'profit rolls in', with the crap 99% f
midibus fleet they run if I was nxwm I wouldnt be worried at all theyll be laughed out the house. If youre basing it on the theory of only paying routes would justify better buses, then the entire network of ex Midland routes must be loss making basket cases, looking at the fleet

[4006]

Personally I would not be spending loads of money on new buses etc before I was sure it would be profitable! surely Arriva are making sence by taking the small steps first..feeling their way round. Yes the inherited buses are in the main 'not that good' and maybe some of the routes need 'looking at' but what else are they supposed to do? I mean they cannot repaint the whole fleet in one go nor would it be viable to buy a new fleet. So yes they refurbed some oldies and brought some Ex london Darts along but at least they are doing something and relating to my previous posts and pics/comments on Flickr it would suggest that other people agree that they are doing just that.
Either way that Trident (I will relate to again)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/retroscania/8599189138/in/photostream

In my opinion is the best looking thing around at the mo

[Bob]

Its a tired old ex nottingham decker with a red bloody interior it looks ok but nothing special and the east lancs bodys pretty ugly to be fair. To say the buses are 'not that good' is being kind they are nails and the ex londons brought in are marginally better but full of rattles and breaking down already. Midland were  a basket case lets be honest

[4006]

Its a tired old ex nottingham decker with a red bloody interior it looks ok but nothing special and the east lancs bodys pretty ugly to be fair. To say the buses are 'not that good' is being kind they are nails and the ex londons brought in are marginally better but full of rattles and breaking down already. Midland were  a basket case lets be honest

With respect Bob if arriva rolled out concorde you would still critisize!!

[mranon]

the said red interior of the repainted trident hasn't been long done. this was carried out by midland. It originally was identical to the other one. they also retrimmed a few other buses in this material too. even an optare excel was done, although that didnt last long before it failed

[Bob]

I know its not long been done it just looks odd.

[Westy]

Id like them to make a success of Wednesfield personally, compared to what happened with Chase.

The extended 19 is a start.

I remember when Midland did the 549 from Walsall to Wolves via the 2 hospitals, but that didnt last long.

[bwsau cymru]

Itll be closed before any bloody 'profit rolls in', with the crap 99% f
midibus fleet they run if I was nxwm I wouldnt be worried at all theyll be laughed out the house. If youre basing it on the theory of only paying routes would justify better buses, then the entire network of ex Midland routes must be loss making basket cases, looking at the fleet

If they are that bad why had they made such a "good impression" on centro, and that has been told to me by centro?
There is very very very little chance that they will move out of Cannock and as I have said before I am a massive fan and supporter of Rotala and it is hard for me to say arriva are doing a much better job on the 335 than they did. Plus Cannock fleet isn't that bad, it isn't great but its far from bad, look at the fleet at Kidderminster when first was running it!

[bwsau cymru]

Id like them to make a success of Wednesfield personally, compared to what happened with Chase.

The extended 19 is a start.

I remember when Midland did the 549 from Walsall to Wolves via the 2 hospitals, but that didnt last long.

Yeah it was a shame that route didn't work and it had a fare bit of marketing too! simply not enough people. I used it quite a few times to avoid the 529.

[bwsau cymru]

Its a tired old ex nottingham decker with a red bloody interior it looks ok but nothing special and the east lancs bodys pretty ugly to be fair. To say the buses are 'not that good' is being kind they are nails and the ex londons brought in are marginally better but full of rattles and breaking down already. Midland were  a basket case lets be honest

With respect Bob if arriva rolled out concorde you would still critisize!!

Very well said

[Bob]

Itll be closed before any bloody 'profit rolls in', with the crap 99% f
midibus fleet they run if I was nxwm I wouldnt be worried at all theyll be laughed out the house. If youre basing it on the theory of only paying routes would justify better buses, then the entire network of ex Midland routes must be loss making basket cases, looking at the fleet

If they are that bad why had they made such a "good impression" on centro, and that has been told to me by centro?
There is very very very little chance that they will move out of Cannock and as I have said before I am a massive fan and supporter of Rotala and it is hard for me to say arriva are doing a much better job on the 335 than they did. Plus Cannock fleet isn't that bad, it isn't great but its far from bad, look at the fleet at Kidderminster when first was running it!

What ever mate! I live in cannock and see on a daily basis the horrendous state of the fleet amount of breakdowns etc.Arriva are excellent in some depots but utterly crap at Cannock. PERIOD

[JB93]

My only experience of Arriva buses really is the 110, 112 and 116, and I think the only one I see with a high passenger number is the 110. Maybe Arriva could make some new patronage by connecting previously unconnected outlying areas and stomping on new territory that NXWM and other operators aren't part of?

[sconehead85]

Perhaps Arriva could go the way of Go-Ahead (in the West Midlands area) but who would take over?NXWM would be barred, and whoever took over would be in the same situation with the same vehicles.  Mercifully NXWM was not split up the way GM Buses was, but their hold means other operators cannot get much of a look in.  But competition doesnt work in the bus industry.

sconehead85