Fare Dodgers

[Wumpty]

West Midlands Railways have said they're clamping down on fare dodgers. Another twenty plus RPI's will be starting in May

It's a start, though going back to basics would make a huge difference with station barrier checks - I would imagine the cost to employ static barrier staff would far outweigh the lost revenue, though there needs to to be strategic alignment with the worst affected routes, and have the necessary support from a Safer Travel-esque task force. I'm sure that BTP would support, though as fare dodging is a civil matter, police have no powers to enforce an individual to hand over personal details.

[Wumpty]

Another one, is mobile data is not working, & trying to get a free ride.

 This happened on an Arriva North West bus [X30] i was on a couple of years ago, passenger boarding the bus claiming his mobile data wasn't working [trying to get a free ride] driver refused to allow him to board, que a Mexican standoff, that the driver ended up calling the police to have the passenger removed from the bus, & the bus ended up about 30 minutes late because of this, & this is an hourly service.

Mobile technology has revolutionise the way we live and travel, and as I've posted previously, companies have no control over mobile technology - if you need a failsafe guarantee of an entitlement to travel, then paper is still the preferred method. I suppose driver discretion has a part to play, though this requires consistency and fairness and, without sounding like a jobsworth, it's not the driver's job to referee between passengers and e-ticketing.

[Jay71]

It's a start, though going back to basics would make a huge difference with station barrier checks - I would imagine the cost to employ static barrier staff would far outweigh the lost revenue, though there needs to to be strategic alignment with the worst affected routes, and have the necessary support from a Safer Travel-esque task force. I'm sure that BTP would support, though as fare dodging is a civil matter, police have no powers to enforce an individual to hand over personal details.

The barriers at Wolves station are a farce. They spend more time open than closed 
Try going to BNS on a Sun. The barriers are not staffed until 1pm

[The Transport Youtuber]

Drivers can't do anything about cards that need a PIN number put in
Most passengers use a second card
Or pay by cash
Then there is the number of passengers who have cards blocked because they owe nx money by not having enough money in there account when nx come to collect the fares out there bank account

whats irritating is that it doesnt reserve the money till the next day meaning if u fgt u bought a daysaver on your spending account and didnt put enough in to account for that daysaver but you thought you had enough earlier in the day. you look at your balance later and realise you got enough to buy something else but didnt realise that you already spent that money on a daysaver

for example its friday
you have £10 in your account
£4.90 on a daysaver at 9am but your balance still shows as £10 at 6pm
then you buy from a chicken shop and the cost of the meal is £8.

next time you buy a da

same thing in most cities with tap on tap off, it would be nicer if the card would show up on your pending transactions list before the next day, helps a lot.

once happened to me it got declined when i had plenty of money in then 5mins later it was approved after NX took the owed money, driver let me on (the first time i had this issue) and the next bus i scanned as normal and got my daysaver. lucky me there wasnt a inspector, but would a inspector give me a opportunity to pay again and see i did have intent to pay to avoid the fine? i presume this is a common problem that people who use spending debit accounts face. and i think its due to tap on tap off complications.

lesson learned always have spare money

[The Transport Youtuber]

The barriers at Wolves station are a farce. They spend more time open than closed
Try going to BNS on a Sun. The barriers are not staffed until 1pm

they could maybe do random revenue blocks like in wales for unbarried stations, removes the need for static staff and equipment?

[busboydan]

Typical day on the 14 if you ask me

Yh worse in the next 2 weeks though as it's holidays.

[karl724223]

whats irritating is that it doesnt reserve the money till the next day meaning if u fgt u bought a daysaver on your spending account and didnt put enough in to account for that daysaver but you thought you had enough earlier in the day. you look at your balance later and realise you got enough to buy something else but didnt realise that you already spent that money on a daysaver

for example its friday
you have £10 in your account
£4.90 on a daysaver at 9am but your balance still shows as £10 at 6pm
then you buy from a chicken shop and the cost of the meal is £8.

next time you buy a da

same thing in most cities with tap on tap off, it would be nicer if the card would show up on your pending transactions list before the next day, helps a lot.

once happened to me it got declined when i had plenty of money in then 5mins later it was approved after NX took the owed money, driver let me on (the first time i had this issue) and the next bus i scanned as normal and got my daysaver. lucky me there wasnt a inspector, but would a inspector give me a opportunity to pay again and see i did have intent to pay to avoid the fine? i presume this is a common problem that people who use spending debit accounts face. and i think its due to tap on tap off complications.

lesson learned always have spare money

My opinion contactless should be like shops money took out your account there and then not next day 

[The Transport Youtuber]

My opinion contactless should be like shops money took out your account there and then not next day

agreed

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

It is annoying you tap twice or four times paying the cost of a daysaver you have money but then buy other things when you get home, you think oh I have enough to cover this daysaver or oh I've still got £3.50 left NX then takes the £3.50 and if you have no overdraft limit you owe -£1.30, I guess they don't take it in case you get multiple buses Bus as soon as you have reached the cap for a daysaver after you have ridden your last bus after say 2 hours. Any journey of that could still count as you paying, or if you asked for  daysaver ticket and paid by card then the money should be taken out there and then as the driver isn't going to charge £4.80 for a random reason and you have only tapped once. I guess they do it at the end of the day/next day just in case you use more buses so NX then know how many buses you have caught 

[The Transport Youtuber]

It is annoying you tap twice or four times paying the cost of a daysaver you have money but then buy other things when you get home, you think oh I have enough to cover this daysaver or oh I've still got £3.50 left NX then takes the £3.50 and if you have no overdraft limit you owe -£1.30, I guess they don't take it in case you get multiple buses Bus as soon as you have reached the cap for a daysaver after you have ridden your last bus after say 2 hours. Any journey of that could still count as you paying, or if you asked for  daysaver ticket and paid by card then the money should be taken out there and then as the driver isn't going to charge £4.80 for a random reason and you have only tapped once. I guess they do it at the end of the day/next day just in case you use more buses so NX then know how many buses you have caught

and if you dont do overdraft your getting blocked by NXWM... 

shd charge instantly for every tap on. for example £2.90 first then £1.90 for second tap then nothing after that. 

[Stu]

It is annoying you tap twice or four times paying the cost of a daysaver you have money but then buy other things when you get home, you think oh I have enough to cover this daysaver or oh I've still got £3.50 left NX then takes the £3.50 and if you have no overdraft limit you owe -£1.30, I guess they don't take it in case you get multiple buses Bus as soon as you have reached the cap for a daysaver after you have ridden your last bus after say 2 hours. Any journey of that could still count as you paying, or if you asked for  daysaver ticket and paid by card then the money should be taken out there and then as the driver isn't going to charge £4.80 for a random reason and you have only tapped once. I guess they do it at the end of the day/next day just in case you use more buses so NX then know how many buses you have caught

At the end of the day, it is the passengers' responsibility to ensure they have enough funds in their bank account to cover any payments made using their card.

And if a card is presented that comes up as blocked or declined, then that passenger should be refused travel, unless they can pay with cash or another card.

If you're at the checkout in Tesco paying for your shopping and your card gets declined, the assistant isn't going to let you take your goods away with you!

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

At the end of the day, it is the passengers' responsibility to ensure they have enough funds in their bank account to cover any payments made using their card.

And if a card is presented that comes up as blocked or declined, then that passenger should be refused travel, unless they can pay with cash or another card.

If you're at the checkout in Tesco paying for your shopping and your card gets declined, the assistant isn't going to let you take your goods away with you!

But going back to the example you may money and have enough to get a ticket, if the money was taken straight away or within 2 buses where it is clear you are getting a daysaver then you would know that £4.80 was taken then would be no risk of running out of money, many passengers wouldn't know NX don't take the money so hence I get your point, but Tesco, Asda or anyone else take the amount straight away so if you have to do £20 worth of shopping that £20 leaves your account.

[Stu]

But going back to the example you may money and have enough to get a ticket, if the money was taken straight away or within 2 buses where it is clear you are getting a daysaver then you would know that £4.80 was taken then would be no risk of running out of money, many passengers wouldn't know NX don't take the money so hence I get your point, but Tesco, Asda or anyone else take the amount straight away so if you have to do £20 worth of shopping that £20 leaves your account.

They don't though, if you actually look at your bank statements.

I shop at plenty of local stores using my debit card, and I often find that the money doesn't actually leave my account until the following day. At the point of purchase, the card processor is looking for 'authorisation' for that transaction, based on the available funds in the account being used to make the payment at that time.

With NX it's slightly different, the system seeks 'authorisation' but the transaction doesn't get completed straight away, due to the 'capping' structure.


If someone's finances are that bad and they can't be sure they'll have at least £4.80 in their bank account at the end of the day, then perhaps they should stick to using cash to pay for their bus fares. Or perhaps consider getting a Swift Pay-As-You-Go or Swift Go card that they can load credit onto.

[Lukeee]

They don't though, if you actually look at your bank statements.

I shop at plenty of local stores using my debit card, and I often find that the money doesn't actually leave my account until the following day. At the point of purchase, the card processor is looking for 'authorisation' for that transaction, based on the available funds in the account being used to make the payment at that time.

With NX it's slightly different, the system seeks 'authorisation' but the transaction doesn't get completed straight away, due to the 'capping' structure.


If someone's finances are that bad and they can't be sure they'll have at least £4.80 in their bank account at the end of the day, then perhaps they should stick to using cash to pay for their bus fares. Or perhaps consider getting a Swift Pay-As-You-Go or Swift Go card that they can load credit onto.

If someone is purchasing an N bus day ticket then would it not be worth them purchasing it by card and getting a paper copy (I.e ask the driver for a day ticket before holding your card over the reader). Am I correct in thinking that this would transfer funds to your pending same as purchasing a product in tesco for example (personally don't need to buy an N bus as I have my staff pass but curious).

[Stu]

If someone is purchasing an N bus day ticket then would it not be worth them purchasing it by card and getting a paper copy (I.e ask the driver for a day ticket before holding your card over the reader). Am I correct in thinking that this would transfer funds to your pending same as purchasing a product in tesco for example (personally don't need to buy an N bus as I have my staff pass but curious).

While I'm not 100% certain, I do believe that is the case, yes. It's a 'fixed' value transaction, same as if you used your card in a local supermarket or elsewhere.

I do actually see quite a few people who do this, and it seems a fairly sensible choice for many passengers.

I personally pay for my bus travel via direct debit monthly in advance, so for me its just a case of tapping my Swift card each time.