Stagecoach in Birmingham

[sandboy20]

If vehicles are running light from Rugby to Birmingham I don't no why Stagecoach can't run a few as limited stop services from Rugby to Birmingham perhaps via Coventry. I seem to remember many years ago stagecoach ran a limited stop X42 from Northampton to Birmingham via Coventry with very cheap fares within the West Midlands county presumably in competition with what then was West Midlands Travel who used delightful and fast dual purpose (coach seated) Metrobuses on the 900 Coventry - Birmingham

[Danthebusman]

If vehicles are running light from Rugby to Birmingham I don't no why Stagecoach can't run a few as limited stop services from Rugby to Birmingham perhaps via Coventry. I seem to remember many years ago stagecoach ran a limited stop X42 from Northampton to Birmingham via Coventry with very cheap fares within the West Midlands county presumably in competition with what then was West Midlands Travel who used delightful and fast dual purpose (coach seated) Metrobuses on the 900 Coventry - Birmingham

I remember the 900. It would be a good way of using all that dead mileage but would they actually implicate it is a different question. Could have the buses go to brum through cov and then when they get to brum maybe interwork with some of the new routes they have over there since all this dead mileage probably isnt bringing them in much profit.

[metrocity]

I remember the 900. It would be a good way of using all that dead mileage but would they actually implicate it is a different question. Could have the buses go to brum through cov and then when they get to brum maybe interwork with some of the new routes they have over there since all this dead mileage probably isnt bringing them in much profit.

The plan is to have a base in Birmingham in the very near future

[monkeyjoe]

I remember the 900. It would be a good way of using all that dead mileage but would they actually implicate it is a different question. Could have the buses go to brum through cov and then when they get to brum maybe interwork with some of the new routes they have over there since all this dead mileage probably isnt bringing them in much profit.

I don't think such routes would appeal with the amount of traffic these days and trains (when they run). 

[Stu]

If vehicles are running light from Rugby to Birmingham I don't no why Stagecoach can't run a few as limited stop services from Rugby to Birmingham perhaps via Coventry. I seem to remember many years ago stagecoach ran a limited stop X42 from Northampton to Birmingham via Coventry with very cheap fares within the West Midlands county presumably in competition with what then was West Midlands Travel who used delightful and fast dual purpose (coach seated) Metrobuses on the 900 Coventry - Birmingham

The TfWM contracts were pretty much agreed "last minute", which is why we have this mess in the first place, let alone having time to plan and register a new limited-stop service from Rugby to Birmingham, which probably wouldn't be viable anyway.

As has been pointed out already, it seems that Stagecoach's plan was to operate these contracts initially from Rugby, but with a long-term aim to have a depot/outstation in Birmingham where they can store vehicles and from where they can recruit local drivers.

[Rachvince53]

If vehicles are running light from Rugby to Birmingham I don't no why Stagecoach can't run a few as limited stop services from Rugby to Birmingham perhaps via Coventry. I seem to remember many years ago stagecoach ran a limited stop X42 from Northampton to Birmingham via Coventry with very cheap fares within the West Midlands county presumably in competition with what then was West Midlands Travel who used delightful and fast dual purpose (coach seated) Metrobuses on the 900 Coventry - Birmingham

The service was numbered X64 and was operated by Stagecoach United Counties under the Coachlinks brand.  Most journeys ran between Birmingham,  Coventry and Corby via Northampton.  A basically hourly service was provided Mon-Sat, two hourly on Sundays if I recall. It was faster than the WMT 900 as it omitted Meriden. (There was also the competing Midland Fox 66 which ran between Birmingham and Leicester in between,)  As others have said, surely they could run positioning journeys or would that have an adverse effect on drivers hours?

[Justin Tyme]

The service was numbered X64 and was operated by Stagecoach United Counties under the Coachlinks brand.  Most journeys ran between Birmingham,  Coventry and Corby via Northampton.  A basically hourly service was provided Mon-Sat, two hourly on Sundays if I recall. It was faster than the WMT 900 as it omitted Meriden. (There was also the competing Midland Fox 66 which ran between Birmingham and Leicester in between,)  As others have said, surely they could run positioning journeys or would that have an adverse effect on drivers hours?

I have checked X64 timetables for the late 1980s and 1990s, and at best it ran two hourly Mon-Sat, with 2-3 journeys on Sundays.  Its main purpose was to link Northamptonshire with the West Midlands rather than compete with WMT 900.  As far as I can recall there was no attempt made to publicise a fast Birmingham - Coventry link.

No doubt the positioning journeys between Rugby and the Birmingham termini could be run in service, but if they run early, late or not at all, there's another stick with which to beat Stagecoach.  There would virtually no demand unless buses called at Coventry city centre en route - and even then there are unlikely to be enough passengers at those times of day to make it worthwhile.  That probably would affect drivers hours as well.

In fact it is quite rare anywhere in the country for operators to run positioning journeys in service unless they are on the line of route anyway (and by no means always even then).

[markcf83]

The plan is to have a base in Birmingham in the very near future

Let's hope they have found,or at least have shortlisted,some suitable sites. 

[Stu]

Let's hope they have found,or at least have shortlisted,some suitable sites.

As well as started advertising locally for driver jobs.

[Wumpty]

So, the first service failure tweet this morning:

#Birmingham#Solihul
Due to circumstances beyond our control the following services will not run this morning
#46-06.34 West Heath to QE
Apologies for any inconvenience 

They're also failing on Leamington service U1 that s morning too......

[Sandy Lane]

I have been informed privately that Mr Street is aware of the situation and is chairing a meeting with TfWM and Stagecoach management on Thursday.

Oh Dear! HRH was not very happy if he met SC yesterday - due to other matters.

BBC News - Levelling up funding process is broken, says Tory mayor Andy Street
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64337596

Hope that SC survived the meeting. 

[Kevin_Brum12]

You do wonder what the Stagecoach strategy is.  If it was still a PLC and you were a shareholder based in Birmingham you'd be tempted to turn up at the AGM and ask the board!

If the Stagecoach plan is to challenge NXWM, bidding for a package of tendered routes, putting in a low bid and running them from an depot an more than an hour away seems like something they've come up with on the back of an envelope.  Either that, or the people in Stockport who came up with the tender bid thought Rugby was near Birmingham!

You would have thought if they wanted to play the long game and see if "events "intervened" they would have bought the second biggest operator with a base in the metropolitan West Midlands i.e. Diamond, which if the TfWM/NXWM "partnership ended up in an acrimonious divorce  because of poor performance/change of Mayor/economic factors/move of approach to franchising like Manchester/government intervention breaking up NXWM etc.  

"Events" since 1990 have led to Stagecoach having operations in most of the big urban areas, big enough to result in two major groups serving them with the notable exception of Birmingham and the Black Country. That has enabled Stagecoach to take advantage of the move away from the 1986 Government policy of on street competition between bus operators, to the approaches that are now Government policy in "Bus Back Better" which acknowledged deregulation and the market had not delivered the desired results.

You would have thought Stagecoach wouldn't be touching any TfWM contracts in Birmingham until they had an operational base in the city.  They seem to have lost both Brian Souter and their corporate memory.

[Sandy Lane]

You do wonder what the Stagecoach strategy is.  If it was still a PLC and you were a shareholder based in Birmingham you'd be tempted to turn up at the AGM and ask the board!

If the Stagecoach plan is to challenge NXWM, bidding for a package of tendered routes, putting in a low bid and running them from an depot an more than an hour away seems like something they've come up with on the back of an envelope.  Either that, or the people in Stockport who came up with the tender bid thought Rugby was near Birmingham!

You would have thought if they wanted to play the long game and see if "events "intervened" they would have bought the second biggest operator with a base in the metropolitan West Midlands i.e. Diamond, which if the TfWM/NXWM "partnership ended up in an acrimonious divorce  because of poor performance/change of Mayor/economic factors/move of approach to franchising like Manchester/government intervention breaking up NXWM etc. 

"Events" since 1990 have led to Stagecoach having operations in most of the big urban areas, big enough to result in two major groups serving them with the notable exception of Birmingham and the Black Country. That has enabled Stagecoach to take advantage of the move away from the 1986 Government policy of on street competition between bus operators, to the approaches that are now Government policy in "Bus Back Better" which acknowledged deregulation and the market had not delivered the desired results.

You would have thought Stagecoach wouldn't be touching any TfWM contracts in Birmingham until they had an operational base in the city.  They seem to have lost both Brian Souter and their corporate memory.

Have a look see at a SC news update from a few days ago.

Some of the words from https://m.stagecoachgroup.com/media/news-releases/2023/2023-01-10.aspx

Stagecoach Group Limited ("the Company") today (10 January 2023) announced the transition to a new management team as the business evolves and looks to its next phase of growth.

In recent years, Stagecoach has moved from being a global multi-modal business with extensive overseas interests to a group focused principally on buses and the UK. The Company de-listed from the London Stock Exchange last summer, becoming a private company, and last month the Group reported a positive first set of financial results under its new ownership.

Today, Stagecoach has confirmed management changes as it looks to capitalise on the exciting opportunities ahead for greener public transport and the key role it can play in delivering on the country's ambitions.

[Straightlines]

You do wonder what the Stagecoach strategy is.  If it was still a PLC and you were a shareholder based in Birmingham you'd be tempted to turn up at the AGM and ask the board!

If the Stagecoach plan is to challenge NXWM, bidding for a package of tendered routes, putting in a low bid and running them from an depot an more than an hour away seems like something they've come up with on the back of an envelope.  Either that, or the people in Stockport who came up with the tender bid thought Rugby was near Birmingham!

You would have thought if they wanted to play the long game and see if "events "intervened" they would have bought the second biggest operator with a base in the metropolitan West Midlands i.e. Diamond, which if the TfWM/NXWM "partnership ended up in an acrimonious divorce  because of poor performance/change of Mayor/economic factors/move of approach to franchising like Manchester/government intervention breaking up NXWM etc. 

"Events" since 1990 have led to Stagecoach having operations in most of the big urban areas, big enough to result in two major groups serving them with the notable exception of Birmingham and the Black Country. That has enabled Stagecoach to take advantage of the move away from the 1986 Government policy of on street competition between bus operators, to the approaches that are now Government policy in "Bus Back Better" which acknowledged deregulation and the market had not delivered the desired results.

You would have thought Stagecoach wouldn't be touching any TfWM contracts in Birmingham until they had an operational base in the city.  They seem to have lost both Brian Souter and their corporate memory.

Whatever you think about Stagecoach entering the West Midlands, it has raised concerns at higher levels at NX; I even understand that some of their more junior employees have been tasked with undertaking monitoring on their compliance and reporting findings to higher level management.

[winston]

Whatever you think about Stagecoach entering the West Midlands, it has raised concerns at higher levels at NX; I even understand that some of their more junior employees have been tasked with undertaking monitoring on their compliance and reporting findings to higher level management.

Stagecoach are on borrowed time with their latest TfWM contracts & risk being stripped of them if performance doesn't improve.