WM Bus Photos Forum

West Midlands Buses in Discussion => National Express West Midlands => Topic started by: 2206 on September 28, 2023, 01:37:02 PM

Title: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on September 28, 2023, 01:37:02 PM
Solus 25/600 - withdrawn.
Coventry 19 - Withdrawn from 5th November. Replaced by extension to Coventry 2.
WB 89 - Service will no longer opereate through to the City Centre. Passengers to change onto regular routes 82./87.
71 - Stagecoach Service operated by a different operator 71A - New Service.
67/67A - New service 67A to Peddimore Amazon.
Wolverhampton 5 - operated by Banga Buses.
27 - Curtailed Yardley Wood to Frankley Holly Hill from 5th November. Passengers to change onto route 2 for links to the Maypole.
Walsall 74 - operated by Walsall Community Transport.
88 Stourbridge - to be operated by Diamond Buses.
96 - NXWM operate Monday to Saturday daytime service.
Walsall 19 - operated by Chaserider.
A10 - Digby Drive in Marston Green will no longer be served due to parking problems.
530 - NXWM to operate Sunday service

https://www.birminghamworld.uk/news/birmingham-bus-service-changes-cancel-4352001

Not surprised at the 25 going which just carries fresh air it seems.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: MasterPlan on September 28, 2023, 01:51:24 PM
It says the 89 will not run into Birmingham City Centre anymore but it doesn't say where it will be curtailed to.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on September 28, 2023, 01:56:15 PM
Quote from: MasterPlan on September 28, 2023, 01:51:24 PMIt says the 89 will not run into Birmingham City Centre anymore but it doesn't say where it will be curtailed to.
Will probably be somewhere where passengers can easily change onto the 82/87. Either Cape Hill, City Hospital, or Spring Hill I would guess.
More details to come soon no doubt.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Owen on September 28, 2023, 01:57:06 PM
I wonder where Peddimore is? Asda Minworth termini?  This 67A will be a single deck service likely?

And a 71A, like the one SC to CV
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on September 28, 2023, 01:58:33 PM
Quote from: Owen on September 28, 2023, 01:57:06 PMI wonder where Peddimore is? Asda Minworth termini?  This 67A will be a single deck service likely?
Its off the A38.

Depends whether it takes Park Lane or Kingsbury Road.
Peddimore Royal Sutton Coldfield - Google Maps (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Peddimore+Royal+Sutton+Coldfield/@52.536087,-1.7804214,16z/data=!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x4870aff3d2ce2239:0xb7c0cd73f5254b5f!2sPeddimore+Ln,+The+Royal+Town+of+Sutton+Coldfield,+Birmingham,+Sutton+Coldfield!3b1!8m2!3d52.5369484!4d-1.7753574!16s%2Fg%2F1tg_l1w6!3m5!1s0x4870afeb51b62853:0x381744911fc1a6d0!8m2!3d52.5370897!4d-1.7779318!16s%2Fg%2F11gr5ynt9t?entry=ttu)
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Owen on September 28, 2023, 02:00:43 PM
Quote from: 2206 on September 28, 2023, 01:56:15 PMWill probably be somewhere where passengers can easily change onto the 82/87. Either Cape Hill, City Hospital, or Spring Hill I would guess.
More details to come soon no doubt.

Stop before grove lane? 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Jack on September 28, 2023, 02:04:06 PM
Shame the 89 is being messed with, it's a lovely route. 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on September 28, 2023, 02:24:00 PM
Quote from: Owen on September 28, 2023, 01:57:06 PMI wonder where Peddimore is? Asda Minworth termini?  This 67A will be a single deck service likely?

And a 71A, like the one SC to CV
Not difficult to find by typing it into google
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: PB50 on September 28, 2023, 02:26:57 PM
Thought WA9 service was going to be run by Wolverhampton drivers when these changes take place. Also was under the impression that the 26 service from Bloxwich was being taken over by National Express buses. Can anyone clarify this please. Thanks.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Coventrybususer95 on September 28, 2023, 02:31:54 PM
Interesting that it says cv2 covers some of cv19 route only part covered would be tile hill south


https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/changes-to-west-midlands-bus-services-announced/
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Owen on September 28, 2023, 02:46:49 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 28, 2023, 02:24:00 PMNot difficult to find by typing it into google
I didn't think I'd bother as a non existent place like 'hasbury' appeared on the 67 Christmas just gone. And I supposed this was another false terminus. I did Google it and it's not a landmark yet. The Peddimore development isn't a public site. Nor is Peddimore lane ready so really and truly it should be 'minworth'
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 02:48:00 PM
Quote from: 2206 on September 28, 2023, 01:37:02 PMSolus 25/600 - withdrawn.
Coventry 19 - Withdrawn from 5th November. Replaced by extension to Coventry 2.
WB 89 - Service will no longer opereate through to the City Centre. Passengers to change onto regular routes 82./87.
71 - Stagecoach Service operated by a different operator 71A - New Service.
67/67A - New service 67A to Peddimore Amazon.
Wolverhampton 5 - operated by Banga Buses.
27 - Curtailed Yardley Wood to Frankley Holly Hill from 5th November. Passengers to change onto route 2 for links to the Maypole.
Walsall 74 - operated by Walsall Community Transport.
88 Stourbridge - to be operated by Diamond Buses.
96 - NXWM operate Monday to Saturday daytime service.
Walsall 19 - operated by Chaserider.
A10 - Digby Drive in Marston Green will no longer be served due to parking problems.
530 - NXWM to operate Sunday service

https://www.birminghamworld.uk/news/birmingham-bus-service-changes-cancel-4352001

Not surprised at the 25 going which just carries fresh air it seems.
😳. I'm sure that will go down really well with the locals
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 02:49:56 PM
Quote from: Jack on September 28, 2023, 02:04:06 PMShame the 89 is being messed with, it's a lovely route.
My local route too, I didn't realise it was struggling so much, this will be the beginning of the end for the route I imagine
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Jack on September 28, 2023, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 02:48:00 PM😳. I'm sure that will go down really well with the locals
It really won't, can see a lot of people unhappy with that.

Same can said for the 46 which shouldn't have gone, the 16 replacement is just riddled with bad traffic and unreliability, lots of people want the 46 back and I agree.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on September 28, 2023, 02:53:48 PM
Quote from: Owen on September 28, 2023, 02:46:49 PMI didn't think I'd bother as a non existent place like 'hasbury' appeared on the 67 Christmas just gone. And I supposed this was another false terminus. I did Google it and it's not a landmark yet. The Peddimore development isn't a public site. Nor is Peddimore lane ready so really and truly it should be 'minworth'

No, It is not Minworth and yes Peddimore Lane is ready and it has no restriction on public access. The huge Amazon warehouse on it opens next Friday
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Jack on September 28, 2023, 02:56:15 PM
Apparently the 2 is getting cut to Yardley Wood, so that means there's no link from Yardley Wood to Maypole with both the 2 and 27 going.

Nice one.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 03:04:01 PM
Quote from: Jack on September 28, 2023, 02:52:33 PMIt really won't, can see a lot of people unhappy with that.

Same can said for the 46 which shouldn't have gone, the 16 replacement is just riddled with bad traffic and unreliability, lots of people want the 46 back and I agree.
I do miss the 46, it was extremely convenient to have a direct service to West Bromwich on my doorstep

The 89 has always felt fragile to be since it replaced the 88. I feel like if it's doing badly, it could be replaced with other routes. The reintroduction of the 80A replace it between Cape Hill and the Cricket Ground - using Coopers Lane to get back on route - and along Devonshire Road, the 54 & 54A could cover the Queens Head and Hales Lane sections

Sad to see it's decline, but I don't see how having the route not enter the city centre will help, although it will mean the Geminis will be able to be used on it
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 03:05:33 PM
Quote from: Jack on September 28, 2023, 02:56:15 PMApparently the 2 is getting cut to Yardley Wood, so that means there's no link from Yardley Wood to Maypole with both the 2 and 27 going.

Nice one.
Cuts everywhere, it's really sad to see all of these service reductions
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on September 28, 2023, 03:09:28 PM
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 03:05:33 PMCuts everywhere, it's really sad to see all of these service reductions
The funding from BSIP is for 98% of the current network
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on September 28, 2023, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: Jack on September 28, 2023, 02:56:15 PMApparently the 2 is getting cut to Yardley Wood, so that means there's no link from Yardley Wood to Maypole with both the 2 and 27 going.

Nice one.
It doesn't say that anywhere about the 2.

The 27 is being curtailed at Yardley Wood. I imagine the 'timetable revision' for the 2 will see the reintroduction of service through to Maypole on Sundays.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on September 28, 2023, 03:39:11 PM
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 03:04:01 PMSad to see it's decline, but I don't see how having the route not enter the city centre will help, although it will mean the Geminis will be able to be used on it
Depending on where it is curtailed, it might mean one less bus is required to operate it, this helps make the service viable by reducing operating costs.

EDIT: It would appear the 89 will operate between West Bromwich and Cape Hill, as the TfWM website mentions "Passengers between Cape Hill and Birmingham can the following alternative services" (sic) before referring to the 82 and 87.

Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on September 28, 2023, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: Stu on September 28, 2023, 03:39:11 PMDepending on where it is curtailed, it might mean one less bus is required to operate it, this helps make the service viable by reducing operating costs.

EDIT: It would appear the 89 will operate between West Bromwich and Cape Hill, as the TfWM mentions "Passengers between Cape Hill and Birmingham can the following alternative services" (sic) before referring to the 82 and 87.


A similar thing happened a few years ago with passengers on the 58 required to change to the main Coventry Road 60 at Yardley Swan.
To be honest I doubt it will be much of a hardship for anyone given how often the 82/87 run.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on September 28, 2023, 03:58:20 PM
I assume this 'new' 71A service will also serve the new Amazon distribution centre at Peddimore?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on September 28, 2023, 04:21:59 PM
Quote from: Stu on September 28, 2023, 03:39:11 PMDepending on where it is curtailed, it might mean one less bus is required to operate it, this helps make the service viable by reducing operating costs.

EDIT: It would appear the 89 will operate between West Bromwich and Cape Hill, as the TfWM website mentions "Passengers between Cape Hill and Birmingham can the following alternative services" (sic) before referring to the 82 and 87.


It saves 2 buses so a massive cash saving 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 04:41:07 PM
Quote from: 2206 on September 28, 2023, 03:50:33 PMA similar thing happened a few years ago with passengers on the 58 required to change to the main Coventry Road 60 at Yardley Swan.
To be honest I doubt it will be much of a hardship for anyone given how often the 82/87 run.
Personally, it deters me from using the service in that direction, I can't lie

I think it will for a lot of passengers who want to go past Cape Hill

If you live on Brasshouse Lane, it's a short walk to Smethwick Rolfe Street or the 80/87, if you live on Devonshire Road, it's a short walk to both stations, if you live around the Queens Head, you have the 12/A, if you live by the Old Chapel or Cricket Ground, the 87 is not too far away
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: frostjay974 on September 28, 2023, 06:09:49 PM
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 03:04:01 PMI do miss the 46, it was extremely convenient to have a direct service to West Bromwich on my doorstep

The 89 has always felt fragile to be since it replaced the 88. I feel like if it's doing badly, it could be replaced with other routes. The reintroduction of the 80A replace it between Cape Hill and the Cricket Ground - using Coopers Lane to get back on route - and along Devonshire Road, the 54 & 54A could cover the Queens Head and Hales Lane sections

Sad to see it's decline, but I don't see how having the route not enter the city centre will help, although it will mean the Geminis will be able to be used on it
When was Hales Lane/Queens Head section of the 46 withdrawn?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 06:28:13 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 28, 2023, 04:21:59 PMIt saves 2 buses so a massive cash saving
Just goes to show what nonsense the 'Protecting the network' fare increase was really doesn't it!
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on September 28, 2023, 06:43:24 PM
Quote from: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 06:28:13 PMJust goes to show what nonsense the 'Protecting the network' fare increase was really doesn't it!
Routes that don't carry enough passenger get cut, always happened, WMPTE did it back in the 1980s, private companies have done it all over the UK ever since. London is trimming routes that duplicate others along main roads.

Wait until TfGM find how much money it costs to run dead routes and see what they do.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: j789 on September 28, 2023, 07:12:06 PM
Quote from: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 06:28:13 PMJust goes to show what nonsense the 'Protecting the network' fare increase was really doesn't it!
This would be true if this was happening to key routes but it's not, only these marginal ones that all have decent coverage along them from other routes. Even before the service changes a decade ago, the 88 was always less used than the 82/87 so this is not a massive surprise. 

If taking 2 buses off this route means that the 82/87 can financially maintain their high frequencies then I'm pretty sure far more passengers will be satisfied with that than a few put out having to change services on the 89.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: j789 on September 28, 2023, 07:16:34 PM
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 04:41:07 PMPersonally, it deters me from using the service in that direction, I can't lie

I think it will for a lot of passengers who want to go past Cape Hill

If you live on Brasshouse Lane, it's a short walk to Smethwick Rolfe Street or the 80/87, if you live on Devonshire Road, it's a short walk to both stations, if you live around the Queens Head, you have the 12/A, if you live by the Old Chapel or Cricket Ground, the 87 is not too far away
And this sort of explains why this route is less used than the other Dudley Road services - there are more frequent services close by to many of the areas it runs through.

Yes of course a few end to end passengers will be inconvenienced but there won't be many. I've always found the 82 to be pretty punctual and reliable running such a short route (the 87 less so as it's a longer route) but the 82s will mean passengers are not waiting to long for a connection to the city.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on September 28, 2023, 07:17:27 PM
Quote from: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 06:28:13 PMJust goes to show what nonsense the 'Protecting the network' fare increase was really doesn't it!
As I see it, NX had two options if the 89 service was no longer commercially viable:

1) Withdraw it completely, and then see if TfWM would offer to provide funding for the parts of the route deemed 'socially necessary' (at a cost to taxpayers)

2) Revise the route so the 'socially necessary' parts can be maintained at a lower operating cost, with other parts of the route covered by existing commercial services (82 and 87) that don't require any subsidy from the taxpayer (and are more frequent as well).

Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on September 28, 2023, 07:18:44 PM
And with the 89 no longer going to Birmingham it will make it more reliable along the parts of the route where it is the only bus
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Celestial Toymaker on September 28, 2023, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 28, 2023, 06:43:24 PMRoutes that don't carry enough passenger get cut, always happened, WMPTE did it back in the 1980s, private companies have done it all over the UK ever since. London is trimming routes that duplicate others along main roads.

Wait until TfGM find how much money it costs to run dead routes and see what they do.
City Road (Edgbaston) is over used, 80 / 80A - 11A/11C plus whatever private operators are on there this week, ive never said publicly before but a lot of NXWM routes tend to share roads with each other, Portland Road is the same, 40 years ago the 7 was the only bus on it now there are several all going to City Centre......
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 07:30:50 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 28, 2023, 06:43:24 PMRoutes that don't carry enough passenger get cut, always happened, WMPTE did it back in the 1980s, private companies have done it all over the UK ever since. London is trimming routes that duplicate others along main roads.

Wait until TfGM find how much money it costs to run dead routes and see what they do.
Fully understand how the bus market works, Tony.

It just goes against the grain of the messaging around the fare increase and communications most recently from TfWM.

https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/bus-network-protected-until-2025-following-40-million-investment-from-tfwm/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-65960329

QuoteWest Midlands Mayor, Andy Street, said the changes were a "tough decision" but were to avoid bus routes being cut.
NXWM added the price rises were needed to "protect the bus network in the face of rising costs."

Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on September 28, 2023, 07:35:00 PM
Quote from: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 07:30:50 PMFully understand how the bus market works, Tony.

It just goes against the grain of the messaging around the fare increase and communications most recently from TfWM.

https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/bus-network-protected-until-2025-following-40-million-investment-from-tfwm/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-65960329

The BSIP grant was always on the basis 98% of the network would be run. No road is losing a bus through the 89 being cut short, so the 'network' is maintained
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 07:36:09 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 28, 2023, 07:35:00 PMso the 'network' is maintained
Try telling that to someone who now has to change buses to get to Birmingham!

Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on September 28, 2023, 07:40:05 PM
Quote from: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 07:36:09 PMTry telling that to someone who now has to change buses to get to Birmingham!

One of very few, hence the cut, as you said you " Fully understand how the bus market works"
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 07:42:40 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 28, 2023, 07:40:05 PMOne of very few, hence the cut, as you said you " Fully understand how the bus market works"
It still goes against the messaging led by Andy Street, NXWM and TfWM behind the recent fare rises, as per my original point that you continue to ignore.

QuoteWest Midlands Mayor, Andy Street, said the changes were a "tough decision" but were to avoid bus routes being cut.
NXWM added the price rises were needed to "protect the bus network in the face of rising costs."

Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on September 28, 2023, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 07:42:40 PMIt still goes against the messaging led by Andy Street, NXWM and TfWM behind the recent fare rises, as per my original point that you continue to ignore.


What is so specific about the 89 anyway, what about tendered services that haven't been renewed that genuinely leave stops without a bus?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Jack on September 28, 2023, 07:52:47 PM
Quote from: frostjay974 on September 28, 2023, 06:09:49 PMWhen was Hales Lane/Queens Head section of the 46 withdrawn?
2015. The main section (Great Barr-West Brom) was very popular and still to this day there's a lot of angry people here who aren't satisfied considering the 46 always was popular.

I'm surprised the 49 hasn't been cut back to Brandhall... It's near enough fresh air between Brandhall and Bearwood but the instead NX decide to cut the 46...
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 07:55:03 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 28, 2023, 07:50:56 PMWhat is so specific about the 89 anyway, what about tendered services that haven't been renewed that genuinely leave stops without a bus?
Specifically, that the travelling public was told just 3 months ago that fare increases were 'to avoid bus routes being cut' by our 'major operator' !
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Smethwickian on September 28, 2023, 07:59:33 PM
Living just off Cape Hill the 82/87/89 are my nearest buses and so I occasionally get on an 89 towards Brum city centre if it just happens to be the first one along (and I don't really need one of the city centre stops on the 82/87 loop).
At various times of the day recently I can honestly say it is far less busy than the 82/87. So there really can't be that many passengers travelling through from the places that it alone serves.
On the common section with the 82/87 many passengers appear more picky than me and stand back to wait for one of those, presumably to their preferred city centre stop, rather than get on the 89.
Avoiding the often horrendously congested stretch of the A457 between the city boundary at Grove Lane and City Hospital (don't get me started on the total lawlessness when it comes to parking and loading on that stretch) will help provide a more reliable, stable service for those stretches of the 89 that have far fewer alternatives.
My elderly parents live further up the route near Hales Lane and would benefit from a more reliable service at that end as they more often use it towards West Brom, or only as far as the first stop in Bearwood Road near their GP, and hardly ever go into Birmingham.
Loss of a direct link to City Hospital might disappoint a small number of other passengers, but when the new Midland Met eventually opens in its place, the 89 will be just one stop short and can easily be amended to run across the Grove Lane junction to the new hospital entrance.



Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on September 28, 2023, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 07:55:03 PMSpecifically, that the travelling public was told just 3 months ago that fare increases were 'to avoid bus routes being cut' by our 'major operator' !
So no routes should ever be changed, and money wasted carrying fresh air about?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Fred on September 28, 2023, 08:24:17 PM
Quote from: Straightlines on September 28, 2023, 07:42:40 PMIt still goes against the messaging led by Andy Street, NXWM and TfWM behind the recent fare rises, as per my original point that you continue to ignore.


The Mayor also previously said there would be no fares rises, so what makes you think you can take anything he says at face value?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: MasterPlan on September 28, 2023, 08:36:08 PM
Quote from: Stu on September 28, 2023, 03:25:11 PMIt doesn't say that anywhere about the 2.

The 27 is being curtailed at Yardley Wood. I imagine the 'timetable revision' for the 2 will see the reintroduction of service through to Maypole on Sundays.


Looking at the new timetable on Tfwm it looks like you're right.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 10:27:26 PM
Quote from: Jack on September 28, 2023, 07:52:47 PM2015. The main section (Great Barr-West Brom) was very popular and still to this day there's a lot of angry people here who aren't satisfied considering the 46 always was popular.

I'm surprised the 49 hasn't been cut back to Brandhall... It's near enough fresh air between Brandhall and Bearwood but the instead NX decide to cut the 46...
It was replaced by the 50A/C - which was a bit of a 444 revival on one side of the circular, and the old 450 on the other. In hindsight, I don't remember them being as busy as the double deckers it was allocated justified, and the extra bus per hour on the 48 between Hurst Road and West Bromwich made sense

Quote from: Smethwickian on September 28, 2023, 07:59:33 PMLiving just off Cape Hill the 82/87/89 are my nearest buses and so I occasionally get on an 89 towards Brum city centre if it just happens to be the first one along (and I don't really need one of the city centre stops on the 82/87 loop).
At various times of the day recently I can honestly say it is far less busy than the 82/87. So there really can't be that many passengers travelling through from the places that it alone serves.
On the common section with the 82/87 many passengers appear more picky than me and stand back to wait for one of those, presumably to their preferred city centre stop, rather than get on the 89.
Avoiding the often horrendously congested stretch of the A457 between the city boundary at Grove Lane and City Hospital (don't get me started on the total lawlessness when it comes to parking and loading on that stretch) will help provide a more reliable, stable service for those stretches of the 89 that have far fewer alternatives.
My elderly parents live further up the route near Hales Lane and would benefit from a more reliable service at that end as they more often use it towards West Brom, or only as far as the first stop in Bearwood Road near their GP, and hardly ever go into Birmingham.
Loss of a direct link to City Hospital might disappoint a small number of other passengers, but when the new Midland Met eventually opens in its place, the 89 will be just one stop short and can easily be amended to run across the Grove Lane junction to the new hospital entrance.

I've lived on the 88/89 for half of my life and I worry the removal of the Birmingham - Cape Hill section is the beginning of the end. I can't help but feel like in a year or so from now, we'll be talking about how other routes are being rerouted/introduced to replace the withdrawn 89
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 10:36:22 PM
Quote from: j789 on September 28, 2023, 07:12:06 PMThis would be true if this was happening to key routes but it's not, only these marginal ones that all have decent coverage along them from other routes. Even before the service changes a decade ago, the 88 was always less used than the 82/87 so this is not a massive surprise.

If taking 2 buses off this route means that the 82/87 can financially maintain their high frequencies then I'm pretty sure far more passengers will be satisfied with that than a few put out having to change services on the 89.
I can't imagine passengers getting the 89 to Cape Hill and then changing, especially, as previous mentioned, there are alternatives throughout the route. For me, where I live, I'd rather have a 10 minute walk up the road and get the 12/A rather than having to change buses. This just seems like delaying the inevitable, but I hope I'm wrong
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2900 on September 29, 2023, 07:29:16 AM
89 is the 88 all over again chopped up hacked up messed up nothing new there, the best version of the 88 was city to Blackheath they got the timing on it just right, route length was about right too, then the powers that be change it to the joke 89 merry go around that was the city to Blackheath via every back road in Smethwick,  the altercations with folks we drivers got in Blackheath was a joke, driver why did'nt you say the route would take forever.
The smart cookies use the 89 from city to Capehill then 82/87 at this point those buses thin out in passenger numbers, right now when the 89 reaches Capehill to city punters soon hop off for the 82/87, reliability issues mainly caused by Dudley road improvements 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on September 29, 2023, 02:19:34 PM
Quote from: Stu on September 28, 2023, 03:25:11 PMIt doesn't say that anywhere about the 2.

The 27 is being curtailed at Yardley Wood. I imagine the 'timetable revision' for the 2 will see the reintroduction of service through to Maypole on Sundays.


Quote from: MasterPlan on September 28, 2023, 08:36:08 PMLooking at the new timetable on Tfwm it looks like you're right.
There's also a route change, Prince Of Wales Lane stops are missed out, and from High Street it goes via Gorleston Road to Highters Heath Lane, then via Glenavon Road and Alcester Road South.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Jimboe89 on September 29, 2023, 03:39:02 PM
What is the reasoning behind cutting the Wolverhampton 5?  Always seemed busy.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Owen on September 29, 2023, 03:40:35 PM
Timetable + map released for the 67A.
The 71A won't be, till 8th October.

I don't know if buses are suitable for walmley ash lane but, Im gonna take an eager guess that it it will loop around Walmley ash lane, Peddimore lane, A38 in either direction.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on September 29, 2023, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 10:27:26 PMI've lived on the 88/89 for half of my life and I worry the removal of the Birmingham - Cape Hill section is the beginning of the end. I can't help but feel like in a year or so from now, we'll be talking about how other routes are being rerouted/introduced to replace the withdrawn 89
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 28, 2023, 10:36:22 PMI can't imagine passengers getting the 89 to Cape Hill and then changing, especially, as previous mentioned, there are alternatives throughout the route. For me, where I live, I'd rather have a 10 minute walk up the road and get the 12/A rather than having to change buses. This just seems like delaying the inevitable, but I hope I'm wrong

I have been told that the 89 is actually being revised to terminate in Bearwood. Not sure exactly how this will work, I'm guessing that from Victoria Park it will head back down Bearwood Road, as it restores a link lost a few years ago.
And gives onward passengers the choice of changing at Victoria Park or at Bearwood to get more frequent services to city centre.
I don't know any more than this at present.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Owen on September 29, 2023, 05:51:00 PM
Quote from: Stu on September 29, 2023, 05:42:54 PMI have been told that the 89 is actually being revised to terminate in Bearwood. Not sure exactly how this will work, I'm guessing that from Victoria Park it will head back down Bearwood Road, as it restores a link lost a few years ago.
And gives onward passengers the choice of changing at Victoria Park or at Bearwood to get more frequent services to city centre.
I don't know any more than this at present.
If this is true passengers will be able to change into many routes along the way like the 80,87,12/A, all the other Hagley rd series exc.. maybe it could inter work with the 49/48A
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Rachvince53 on September 29, 2023, 05:59:39 PM
Quote from: Jimboe89 on September 29, 2023, 03:39:02 PMWhat is the reasoning behind cutting the Wolverhampton 5?  Always seemed busy.
Not sure unless the driver shortage is to blame. Presumably Banga are in a position to cover the daytime services, perhaps by interworking with say the 891.  The cutting of Sunday journeys may be simply that not enough passengers are carried to warrant putting it out to tender. 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on September 29, 2023, 06:25:01 PM
Quote from: Stu on September 29, 2023, 05:42:54 PMI have been told that the 89 is actually being revised to terminate in Bearwood. Not sure exactly how this will work, I'm guessing that from Victoria Park it will head back down Bearwood Road, as it restores a link lost a few years ago.
And gives onward passengers the choice of changing at Victoria Park or at Bearwood to get more frequent services to city centre.
I don't know any more than this at present.
I actually hope this is the case, Smethwick and Victoria Park in general haven't had a direct service to Bearwood in years
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Straightlines on September 29, 2023, 06:27:27 PM

Quote from: Rachvince53 on September 29, 2023, 05:59:39 PMNot sure unless the driver shortage is to blame. Presumably Banga are in a position to cover the daytime services, perhaps by interworking with say the 891.  The cutting of Sunday journeys may be simply that not enough passengers are carried to warrant putting it out to tender.
It's quite amusing that years ago Banga used to compete on the 535, now they will be returning as the operator of the corridor! 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: j789 on September 29, 2023, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: Owen on September 29, 2023, 05:51:00 PMIf this is true passengers will be able to change into many routes along the way like the 80,87,12/A, all the other Hagley rd series exc.. maybe it could inter work with the 49/48A
If the 89 and 49 share a similar frequency probably could turn it into a West Brom circular service combining both routes.

Would be a far more useful service than the 50a/c was too.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Owen on September 29, 2023, 07:48:17 PM
Quote from: j789 on September 29, 2023, 06:57:12 PMIf the 89 and 49 share a similar frequency probably could turn it into a West Brom circular service combining both routes.

Would be a far more useful service than the 50a/c was too.
100%.

only things is... some people wouldn't understand that it was circular, the same dense backward people who apparently can't keep up with... 3 digit bus numbers, but happen to understand every 'single digit' (number) route, even tho there's loads with that number.

I mean, there's people who still can't understand the 8 and 11 circular routes. (Which I don't think these people are road safe).
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: ellspurs on September 29, 2023, 09:50:19 PM
Quote from: Owen on September 29, 2023, 03:40:35 PMTimetable + map released for the 67A.
The 71A won't be, till 8th October.

I don't know if buses are suitable for walmley ash lane but, Im gonna take an eager guess that it it will loop around Walmley ash lane, Peddimore lane, A38 in either direction.
Artics regularly go up Walmley Ash Lane, the goods entrance for Wickes is not far from the bridge over the a38. The map shows it is going in off a new road off the new roundabout on the a38 and it'll come back put the same way, so will have no need to go up Walmley Ash Lane. 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Owen on September 29, 2023, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: ellspurs on September 29, 2023, 09:50:19 PMArtics regularly go up Walmley Ash Lane, the goods entrance for Wickes is not far from the bridge over the a38. The map shows it is going in off a new road off the new roundabout on the a38 and it'll come back put the same way, so will have no need to go up Walmley Ash Lane.
I can't find any maps online, do I have a link?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: ellspurs on September 29, 2023, 09:59:47 PM
Quote from: Owen on September 29, 2023, 09:53:43 PMI can't find any maps online, do I have a link?
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/services-timetables/67a-birmingham-peddimore-minworth
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2900 on September 30, 2023, 08:23:04 AM
Quote from: Stu on September 29, 2023, 05:42:54 PMI have been told that the 89 is actually being revised to terminate in Bearwood. Not sure exactly how this will work, I'm guessing that from Victoria Park it will head back down Bearwood Road, as it restores a link lost a few years ago.
And gives onward passengers the choice of changing at Victoria Park or at Bearwood to get more frequent services to city centre.
I don't know any more than this at present.
I to hear the 89 will be doing the old 450 route from Victoria park to Bearwood interchange , its moving to the Bearwood rota i am told possible interworking with 48A/49, makes sense to me, i am always asked at Bearwood  which bus can i get to the Smethwick high st.
Plenty of folks come off capehill to get the 82 to Bearwood , if 89 is to go that way win win for those folks, you can't please every one that's just impossible
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: BBS on September 30, 2023, 11:13:26 AM
I'm guessing all the NX changes ( X1 movement  etc ) is happening this Sunday right? 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: monkeyjoe on September 30, 2023, 12:08:14 PM
X1 I believe is the 22nd Oct.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: BBS on September 30, 2023, 03:51:58 PM
QuoteX1 I believe is the 22nd Oct.
Ahh, still got some time to enjoy some roaring diesels on the A45 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: mesub on September 30, 2023, 08:29:02 PM
Quote from: BBS on September 30, 2023, 03:51:58 PMAhh, still got some time to enjoy some roaring diesels on the A45

Best part of the route in my opinion.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: JPC on September 30, 2023, 08:41:00 PM
The Coventry changes seems targeted to the Cannon Park area, the axed 19 I think was on reprieve since January.
An extended 2 harks back to the old 81E/81W service but presumably via Charter Avenue, which already has plenty other services, if it didn't work back then, it won't work now, surely service 14 could of done this and cover Canley Estate and Cannon Park shops in both directions instead of being parked at the University for 17 minutes!
The 14A could run in the peaks only direct via Westwood in both directions, with an arrangement of alternating/interworking with the 14 effectively as a 'loop'.
One would hope the Stagecoach 87/87A is amended via Cannon Hill Road and Crematorium.
Cannon Park also loses Sunday journeys on the Stagecoach 60.

Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on September 28, 2023, 02:31:54 PMInteresting that it says cv2 covers some of cv19 route only part covered would be tile hill south


https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/changes-to-west-midlands-bus-services-announced/
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: ellspurs on September 30, 2023, 09:15:04 PM
Send one of them back up/down Eastcotes and Westcotes like the old 192/194 used to. That was always fun with the parking down there.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: broma1k on October 02, 2023, 06:38:05 PM
Noticed the 25 Hodge Hill to Erdington still running today
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: ellspurs on October 02, 2023, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: broma1k on October 02, 2023, 06:38:05 PMNoticed the 25 Hodge Hill to Erdington still running today
It is cancelled from the 29th October.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Jack on October 03, 2023, 01:19:34 PM
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/wolverhampton/2023/10/03/residents-furious-as-lifeline-bus-route-into-wolverhampton-is-axed/


Didn't take long...
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on October 03, 2023, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Jack on October 03, 2023, 01:19:34 PMhttps://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/wolverhampton/2023/10/03/residents-furious-as-lifeline-bus-route-into-wolverhampton-is-axed/


Didn't take long...
https://www.change.org/p/save-the-5-bus-route-vital-for-our-community-s-well-being?cs_tk=ApyEKxrdqunJHyY0HGUAAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvIA-hRFdzJ2fMSVwuCU-yxI%3D&utm_campaign=78d6258d6b8947028b92eda4780766f8&utm_content=initial_v0_2_0&utm_medium=email&utm_source=guest_sign_login_link&utm_term=cs

Misleading headline and pettitions the 5 service to Codsall is not axed. Change of operator.
There are claims that the elderly won't be able to go shopping and school children won't be able to get to school. Which i'm sure is simply not true.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: ellspurs on October 03, 2023, 02:32:42 PM
Quote from: Jack on October 03, 2023, 01:19:34 PMhttps://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/wolverhampton/2023/10/03/residents-furious-as-lifeline-bus-route-into-wolverhampton-is-axed/


Didn't take long...
Does the article even mention that Banga Buses are taking it over? It's "Premium" so I haven't seen it.

If someone has access and can find the "feedback" button, let it rip (in a nice way) about how subpar the article is.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 4311 on October 03, 2023, 02:57:23 PM
Last bus is 6.30pm from both bus station and bakers way , again if anybody even bothered to check they'd see they aren't being 'cut off' after 5.30pm

Nx only run 5 more buses after this time currently on an hourly basis and only 2 buses run before the first banga one at 6.30am one of those only being 15 minutes different ay 6.15am , I'm sure nx services at those times wouldn't be carrying much more than fresh air

https://bangabuses.co.uk/bus-timetables/
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on October 03, 2023, 07:36:31 PM
Quote from: ellspurs on October 03, 2023, 02:32:42 PMDoes the article even mention that Banga Buses are taking it over? It's "Premium" so I haven't seen it.
If someone has access and can find the "feedback" button, let it rip (in a nice way) about how subpar the article is.

It's quite astonishing reading.

"It's an important route for a lot of older people round here. I don't mind using Banga buses if that's what is going to replace it but I hope that services aren't reduced and that it continues to be as reliable as it is now.
The 86-year-old continued: "If I pay for a taxi, it will be £8 each way, that's £16 for the journey, that's expensive these days.

It'll cost £4.50 for a day ticket, same as it does now. Why would you need to get a taxi?

Pauline Daker, 86, a resident of Codsall, said: "I am really upset. This is going to have a huge impact on a lot of people. It's one of the lifelines of this area.
"This is my main route to get to Wolverhampton, when this goes how am I supposed to get there? I know there are the Banga buses, but it won't be the same.

Er, you get the Banga Bus instead? Yes, I know it won't be the same, with the Banga buses being different colours and all that.

Admittedly people may lose out with the loss of evening and Sunday journeys, but it's not the end of the world as being made out in the article.

And like with that other recent Birmingham Mail article, the media are again undermining the promotion that TfWM are undertaking to promote the nBus ticket and how it is valid on all bus services now.


Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Westy on October 03, 2023, 10:31:03 PM
Must admit my boss asked me today about the 5, as he goes drinking in Codsall.

I said Banga was taking over, but there was no evening & Sunday service, so he'd have to use the train instead!

Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: ellspurs on October 04, 2023, 03:59:01 PM
Quote from: Stu on October 03, 2023, 07:36:31 PMIt's quite astonishing reading.

"It's an important route for a lot of older people round here. I don't mind using Banga buses if that's what is going to replace it but I hope that services aren't reduced and that it continues to be as reliable as it is now.
The 86-year-old continued: "If I pay for a taxi, it will be £8 each way, that's £16 for the journey, that's expensive these days.

It'll cost £4.50 for a day ticket, same as it does now. Why would you need to get a taxi?

Pauline Daker, 86, a resident of Codsall, said: "I am really upset. This is going to have a huge impact on a lot of people. It's one of the lifelines of this area.
"This is my main route to get to Wolverhampton, when this goes how am I supposed to get there? I know there are the Banga buses, but it won't be the same.

Er, you get the Banga Bus instead? Yes, I know it won't be the same, with the Banga buses being different colours and all that.

Admittedly people may lose out with the loss of evening and Sunday journeys, but it's not the end of the world as being made out in the article.

And like with that other recent Birmingham Mail article, the media are again undermining the promotion that TfWM are undertaking to promote the nBus ticket and how it is valid on all bus services now.



Is the nBus valid in Codsall? It's in south Staffordshire, which is probably where half the problem lies.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on October 04, 2023, 07:32:43 PM
Quote from: ellspurs on October 04, 2023, 03:59:01 PMIs the nBus valid in Codsall? It's in south Staffordshire, which is probably where half the problem lies.
Yes, the nBus area includes Codsall and Bilbrook, as well as some other areas just outside the West Midlands county.
https://cloudcdn.wmca.org.uk/documents/nwm/nbus_nnetworkMap.pdf
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Westy on October 04, 2023, 10:39:43 PM
Quote from: Stu on October 04, 2023, 07:32:43 PMYes, the nBus area includes Codsall and Bilbrook, as well as some other areas just outside the West Midlands county.
https://cloudcdn.wmca.org.uk/documents/nwm/nbus_nnetworkMap.pdf
Was there any reason why those areas were included in the first place?

Was it down to 'travel patterns', like most of the people in Codsall were commuting to Wolverhampton anyway, because there could be other areas, say Cannock for instance, where Nbus could've been extended.

(Obviously Little Aston, there is no other route in the area!)

Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on October 05, 2023, 07:19:46 PM
The 54/54A will be rerouted to serve Devonshire Road and will no longer serve Eurpoa Village Monday to Saturday. Buses will also serve William Road and Hurst Road instead of The Oval.
The 89 will no longer serve Devonshire Road and will serve Portland Road, City Road, Sandon Road to its Rutland Road terminus.
The Diamond 61 is rerouted to serve Europa Village to replace the 54/54A services.


Upcoming Bus Service Changes | Transport for West Midlands (tfwm.org.uk) (https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/upcoming-bus-service-changes/)
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Owen on October 05, 2023, 08:40:11 PM
Bit of a long winded way to get to Bearwood, but it is a long winded route. They'll be 6 buses heading to Bearwood from city road then...
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: frostjay974 on October 05, 2023, 09:59:34 PM
Quote from: 2206 on October 05, 2023, 07:19:46 PMThe 54/54A will be rerouted to serve Devonshire Road and will no longer serve Eurpoa Village Monday to Saturday. Buses will also serve William Road and Hurst Road instead of The Oval.
The 89 will no longer serve Devonshire Road and will serve Portland Road, City Road, Sandon Road to its Rutland Road terminus.
The Diamond 61 is rerouted to serve Europa Village to replace the 54/54A services.


Upcoming Bus Service Changes | Transport for West Midlands (tfwm.org.uk) (https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/upcoming-bus-service-changes/)
Will the 89 still serve Hales Lane or will that be replaced by the 54/54A as well?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Rachvince53 on October 06, 2023, 09:55:26 AM
New 5/5A Wolverhampton to Codsall timetable available on Banga Buses website. 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: hlliwmai on October 06, 2023, 11:03:30 PM
Could anyone i.e. @Tony confirm whether or not National Express are having the 45 Walsall - West Bromwich back from Diamond as there seems to be various comments floating around saying that Diamond are keeping it and other comments are saying National Express Walsall are taking it on but nothing concrete has actually been confirmed. Would you be able to confirm for definite please Tony? 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: winston on October 06, 2023, 11:35:28 PM
Quote from: hlliwmai on October 06, 2023, 11:03:30 PMCould anyone i.e. @Tony confirm whether or not National Express are having the 45 Walsall - West Bromwich back from Diamond as there seems to be various comments floating around saying that Diamond are keeping it and other comments are saying National Express Walsall are taking it on but nothing concrete has actually been confirmed. Would you be able to confirm for definite please Tony?
Diamond Bus are now retaining the 45 Monday to Saturday daytimes, as they've taken it on commercially. 

The tender for the Mon-Sat evenings & Sunday daytime is still to be awarded. 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Westy on October 07, 2023, 08:52:01 AM
Quote from: winston on October 06, 2023, 11:35:28 PMDiamond Bus are now retaining the 45 Monday to Saturday daytimes, as they've taken it on commercially.

The tender for the Mon-Sat evenings & Sunday daytime is still to be awarded.
Is there no Sunday evening service now on the 45?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Owen on October 07, 2023, 05:32:26 PM
When will the 67A be on bustimes. 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on October 07, 2023, 05:52:53 PM
Quote from: Owen on October 07, 2023, 05:32:26 PMWhen will the 67A be on bustimes.
When the BODS timetable feed is next updated.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: IMarkeh on October 07, 2023, 07:37:49 PM
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 06, 2023, 09:55:26 AMNew 5/5A Wolverhampton to Codsall timetable available on Banga Buses website.
They really could make it easier to see that the 5A still goes via Dunstall Road. It looks rather confusing from the timetable and looks like the 5 and 5A go the exact same route between Wolverhampton Bus Station and Hordern Grove
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: BNH2004 on October 07, 2023, 07:45:49 PM
Quote from: IMarkeh on October 07, 2023, 07:37:49 PMThey really could make it easier to see that the 5A still goes via Dunstall Road. It looks rather confusing from the timetable and looks like the 5 and 5A go the exact same route between Wolverhampton Bus Station and Hordern Grove
It tells you the exact route under the timetable, it shows the 5 going down Newhampton Road East and 5A going past Molineux
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Rachvince53 on October 07, 2023, 08:10:41 PM
Quote from: Westy on October 04, 2023, 10:39:43 PMWas there any reason why those areas were included in the first place?

Was it down to 'travel patterns', like most of the people in Codsall were commuting to Wolverhampton anyway, because there could be other areas, say Cannock for instance, where Nbus could've been extended.

(Obviously Little Aston, there is no other route in the area!)


I believe that these areas were included due to them being major commuter areas for people working in the TfWM (originally Centro) area.  I suspect that it was felt including Cannock etc would be beyond the remit of Centro. 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: IMarkeh on October 08, 2023, 09:53:20 AM
Quote from: BNH2004 on October 07, 2023, 07:45:49 PMIt tells you the exact route under the timetable, it shows the 5 going down Newhampton Road East and 5A going past Molineux
Passengers shouldn't have to read the route description below to see that it's very different routes. Bus travel needs to be made easier, not forcing people to read route descriptions.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: cris 99 on October 08, 2023, 12:11:55 PM
Does anyone know who's got the Sunday 71 from October?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Westy on October 08, 2023, 12:18:13 PM
Quote from: IMarkeh on October 08, 2023, 09:53:20 AMPassengers shouldn't have to read the route description below to see that it's very different routes. Bus travel needs to be made easier, not forcing people to read route descriptions.
Least they put it on, unlike Nx!
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Coventrybususer95 on October 09, 2023, 10:18:15 PM
I see the cv19 removal is going down great in the canley community facebook page, emails are being sent to everyone it sounds like there not happy with how the 2 will be routed yet nx haven't announced the cv2 route 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Danthebusman on October 10, 2023, 02:37:08 PM
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on October 09, 2023, 10:18:15 PMI see the cv19 removal is going down great in the canley community facebook page, emails are being sent to everyone it sounds like there not happy with how the 2 will be routed yet nx haven't announced the cv2 route
They published about a new 85H service on 5th October, 4 days before it'd be introduced on Monday 9th October, so based off this there won't be a post until the 18th October.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: ellspurs on October 10, 2023, 04:32:13 PM
Quote from: Danthebusman on October 10, 2023, 02:37:08 PMThey published about a new 85H service on 5th October, 4 days before it'd be introduced on Monday 9th October, so based off this there won't be a post until the 18th October.
To be fair the 85H looks like it was introduced due to overcrowding on the Rugby school services so that may explain the short notice for it (plus it's student only so the schools concerned were probably given the announcement directly).
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on October 11, 2023, 11:58:39 AM
The new 89 timetable for the 5th November has been released on tfwm.

I still have my doubts on whether this rerouting to Bearwood will bare the fruit required (no pun intended), but it certainly makes for some interesting journey opportunities

Excited to see now this goes
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: PB50 on October 11, 2023, 09:47:59 PM
Is Walsall 9 service moving to Wolverhampton garage from Sunday 22nd October?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Westy on October 12, 2023, 04:52:13 AM
Quote from: PB50 on October 11, 2023, 09:47:59 PMIs Walsall 9 service moving to Wolverhampton garage from Sunday 22nd October?
Would that be the complete route or are they splitting it at Bloxwich again?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Lynx1103 on October 12, 2023, 09:45:51 PM
Quote from: Westy on October 12, 2023, 04:52:13 AMWould that be the complete route or are they splitting it at Bloxwich again?

Full route of WA 9 moving to Wolverhampton 29 October. 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: PB50 on October 13, 2023, 07:25:53 AM
Quote from: Lynx1103 on October 12, 2023, 09:45:51 PMFull route of WA 9 moving to Wolverhampton 29 October.
Ok thanks for that. I assume Walsall garage will be sending buses over to be used on the service once Wolverhampton take it over.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Westy on October 13, 2023, 08:40:52 AM
Quote from: PB50 on October 13, 2023, 07:25:53 AMOk thanks for that. I assume Walsall garage will be sending buses over to be used on the service once Wolverhampton take it over.
It'll be interesting to see the resultant interworking, especially on Sundays, as service 35 'relies' on Service 9!
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Rachvince53 on October 13, 2023, 10:31:36 AM
Quote from: PB50 on October 13, 2023, 07:25:53 AMOk thanks for that. I assume Walsall garage will be sending buses over to be used on the service once Wolverhampton take it over.
The ex-CV ones and any on loan perhaps?
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on October 13, 2023, 11:03:37 AM
Quote from: PB50 on October 13, 2023, 07:25:53 AMOk thanks for that. I assume Walsall garage will be sending buses over to be used on the service once Wolverhampton take it over.
Maybe not, Wolverhampton loses the 5 which uses 3 buses, might have enough spares to cover the 9 (5 buses).


Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on October 13, 2023, 11:36:34 AM
Quote from: Rachvince53 on October 13, 2023, 10:31:36 AMThe ex-CV ones and any on loan perhaps?
Coventry will need its own buses then to operate the X1
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Lynx1103 on October 13, 2023, 07:42:29 PM
Quote from: Westy on October 13, 2023, 08:40:52 AMIt'll be interesting to see the resultant interworking, especially on Sundays, as service 35 'relies' on Service 9!
Interworking Sundays sequence is usually 

6-41-35-77

Where the 9 would of been in between 41 & 35.

Think the new plan will work better improved reliability with 9 gone.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on October 13, 2023, 11:42:24 PM
Looks like the 4/4H/4M is to be the next partnership route. A new joint timetable will be introduced.
OmniTIMES (diamondbuses.com) (https://www.diamondbuses.com/media/5087/4_4h_4m-timetable-051123.pdf)

Wonder when this will happen on the 50.


https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/wm-service-changes-october23/
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: BK63 YWP on October 13, 2023, 11:45:21 PM
QuoteLooks like the 4/4H/4M is to be the next partnership route. A new joint timetable will be introduced.
OmniTIMES (diamondbuses.com) (https://www.diamondbuses.com/media/5087/4_4h_4m-timetable-051123.pdf)

Wonder when this will happen on the 50.


https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/wm-service-changes-october23/

Nx no longer doing the 4H (only the evening shorts)
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on October 13, 2023, 11:49:53 PM
Quote from: BK63 YWP on October 13, 2023, 11:45:21 PMNx no longer doing the 4H (only the evening shorts)
Wonder if Diamond will take the NX route round the Hayley Green loop rather than the Hagley Road which is served by the 192 anyway.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: PB50 on October 14, 2023, 07:27:26 AM
Quote from: 2206 on October 13, 2023, 11:42:24 PMLooks like the 4/4H/4M is to be the next partnership route. A new joint timetable will be introduced.
OmniTIMES (diamondbuses.com) (https://www.diamondbuses.com/media/5087/4_4h_4m-timetable-051123.pdf)

Wonder when this will happen on the 50.


https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/wm-service-changes-october23/
Now looking at the new timetable on Diamond it says National Express only running 4,4M and Diamond only running 4H but the new timetable on National Express shows that they are running all 3 services but doesn't show anything for Diamond so don't know what to believe. 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on October 14, 2023, 09:52:50 AM
Quote from: PB50 on October 14, 2023, 07:27:26 AMNow looking at the new timetable on Diamond it says National Express only running 4,4M and Diamond only running 4H but the new timetable on National Express shows that they are running all 3 services but doesn't show anything for Diamond so don't know what to believe.
The new timetable from Diamond also doesn't show any Sunday times. :laugh:

Also it would appear that Diamond are retaining the 20 and 21 services after all, albeit with a reduced Monday to Friday timetable and Saturday journeys withdrawn.


Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Steve3229vp on October 14, 2023, 10:41:26 AM
Quote from: PB50 on October 14, 2023, 07:27:26 AMNow looking at the new timetable on Diamond it says National Express only running 4,4M and Diamond only running 4H but the new timetable on National Express shows that they are running all 3 services but doesn't show anything for Diamond so don't know what to believe.
When the 16 became a joint timetable NX didn't show the Diamond journeys for them either
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on October 14, 2023, 11:09:25 AM
Quote from: PB50 on October 14, 2023, 07:27:26 AMNow looking at the new timetable on Diamond it says National Express only running 4,4M and Diamond only running 4H but the new timetable on National Express shows that they are running all 3 services but doesn't show anything for Diamond so don't know what to believe.
NX haven't released timetables for the 5th November yet.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on October 14, 2023, 11:52:12 AM
Looking on the TfWM website, it would seem that NXWM will be operating the new 71A service Monday to Saturday, with Solus providing the Sunday service from 29th October. 

New timetables for the NX 71 service don't show any Sunday service, so I wonder if this means Solus will operate this as well?

Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on October 14, 2023, 11:56:25 AM
Quote from: Stu on October 14, 2023, 11:52:12 AMLooking on the TfWM website, it would seem that NXWM will be operating the new 71A service Monday to Saturday, with Solus providing the Sunday service from 29th October.

New timetables for the NX 71 service don't show any Sunday service, so I wonder if this means Solus will operate this as well?


Yes. With the loss of the 25/600. Means they will only be running a bus service on Sundays.
Solus Coaches – Bus Times (https://bustimes.org/operators/solus-coaches)

Also looks like late evening services have been altered. With the last buses being 20:03 71A to Sutton Coldfield, 21:10 71 to Chelmsley Wood.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: PB50 on October 14, 2023, 06:46:55 PM
Quote from: 2206 on October 14, 2023, 11:09:25 AMNX haven't released timetables for the 5th November yet.
No you are right there I was looking at new timetables for end of the month which now means that will change again.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on October 30, 2023, 01:39:36 PM
I may be jumping the gun here, but will the 89 be interworking with the 54/54A (or anything else for that matter) at West Bromwich from next week

I've been going over the times, and:

Monday to Saturday
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: BK63 YWP on October 30, 2023, 02:28:01 PM
QuoteI may be jumping the gun here, but will the 89 be interworking with the 54/54A (or anything else for that matter) at West Bromwich from next week

I've been going over the times, and:

Monday to Saturday
  • a 54(A) arrives into West Brom at xx:25 & xx:55 and the 89 leaves at xx:05 & xx:35
  • an 89 arrives into West Brom at xx:03 & xx:33 and the 54(A) leave at xx:10 & xx:40

Sounds logical, especially that the 89 currently uses e200s 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: MasterPlan on October 30, 2023, 02:37:24 PM
Do NX not post anything about changes anymore. I've not seen anything shared about the 22/10 changes or the 29/10 changes.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Tony on October 30, 2023, 02:46:46 PM
Quote from: MasterPlan on October 30, 2023, 02:37:24 PMDo NX not post anything about changes anymore. I've not seen anything shared about the 22/10 changes or the 29/10 changes.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/services-timetables/89-birmingham-west-bromwich
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: MasterPlan on October 30, 2023, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: Tony on October 30, 2023, 02:46:46 PMhttps://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/services-timetables/89-birmingham-west-bromwich


Yes I've seen stuff on the website I meant on social media platforms etc.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: ellspurs on October 30, 2023, 02:57:26 PM
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/timetable-changes-from-the-22nd-october-2023

https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/timetable-changes-from-29th-october-2023

https://x.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1718160716106985906?s=20

https://x.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1715623994555093084?s=20

https://x.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1712759832653038035?s=20

https://x.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1711742955784999241?s=20

The 22/10 changes X's only mention the X1 in the X, but link to the page with all the listed changes.

The night before and roughly a week or so beforehand? Quite good if you ask me.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: MasterPlan on October 30, 2023, 03:09:32 PM
Quote from: ellspurs on October 30, 2023, 02:57:26 PMhttps://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/timetable-changes-from-the-22nd-october-2023

https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/timetable-changes-from-29th-october-2023

https://x.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1718160716106985906?s=20

https://x.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1715623994555093084?s=20

https://x.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1712759832653038035?s=20

https://x.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1711742955784999241?s=20

The 22/10 changes X's only mention the X1 in the X, but link to the page with all the listed changes.

The night before and roughly a week or so beforehand? Quite good if you ask me.

Fair enough, I haven't got Twitter/X so I was curious as there was nothing on Facebook. 
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: 2206 on October 31, 2023, 11:13:29 AM
Looks like the 27 is going back to using Addison Road in Kings Heath.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Rachvince53 on October 31, 2023, 11:36:45 AM
Quote from: 2206 on October 31, 2023, 11:13:29 AMLooks like the 27 is going back to using Addison Road in Kings Heath.
It is. However will only run between Yardley Wood and Frankley.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Westy on October 31, 2023, 11:40:28 AM
Quote from: MasterPlan on October 30, 2023, 03:09:32 PMFair enough, I haven't got Twitter/X so I was curious as there was nothing on Facebook.

To be honest I only signed up with Twitter in the first place, as Nx seemed to monitor that more than Facebook, re service issues.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on November 05, 2023, 02:55:41 PM
Took a ride on the 'new' route of the 2 today.

First things first, if the revised 2 is intended to replace the withdrawn part of the 27, the timetable hasn't been properly thought out as on Sundays, the 27 is timed to arrive at the bus garage after the 2 has been and gone! Meaning passengers changing from the 27 then have about a 25min wait!

Secondly, it was disappointing that the next-stop announcements haven't been updated, which confused a couple of people.

Thirdly, not all bus stop flags had been updated, bizarrely on Glenavon Road and Highters Heath Lane some still showed 27 while others showed the 2. 

According to NX's route map, there are new stops on Gorleston Road near the Daisy Farm Road junction, where I did see a hastily put-up 'Temporary Bus Stop' notice. Also they show the stops on Prince Of Wales Lane moved south of the Gorleston Road junction, but I didn't see any indication of these.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Steve3229vp on November 05, 2023, 03:29:27 PM
Quote from: Stu on November 05, 2023, 02:55:41 PMTook a ride on the 'new' route of the 2 today.

First things first, if the revised 2 is intended to replace the withdrawn part of the 27, the timetable hasn't been properly thought out as on Sundays, the 27 is timed to arrive at the bus garage after the 2 has been and gone! Meaning passengers changing from the 27 then have about a 25min wait!

Secondly, it was disappointing that the next-stop announcements haven't been updated, which confused a couple of people.

Thirdly, not all bus stop flags had been updated, bizarrely on Glenavon Road and Highters Heath Lane some still showed 27 while others showed the 2.

According to NX's route map, there are new stops on Gorleston Road near the Daisy Farm Road junction, where I did see a hastily put-up 'Temporary Bus Stop' notice. Also they show the stops on Prince Of Wales Lane moved south of the Gorleston Road junction, but I didn't see any indication of these.
I just wonder if it would of been better to re-route the 27 to take in some of the 2 route and terminate the 2 at Warstock as it used to
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Jack on November 05, 2023, 04:04:18 PM
How does the 2's new route work? Is it a one  way loop or does it come back on itself?

It sounds confusing and if they was so bothered about keeping Glenavon Road served they should have left the 27. Also has Glenavon Road ever had Deckers serve it before now?

I'm surprised that the 27's section of route was incorporated into the 2, sure they could extended the 19 from Maypole to YW depot...
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on November 05, 2023, 04:34:58 PM
Quote from: Jack on November 05, 2023, 04:04:18 PMHow does the 2's new route work? Is it a one  way loop or does it come back on itself?

It sounds confusing and if they was so bothered about keeping Glenavon Road served they should have left the 27. Also has Glenavon Road ever had Deckers serve it before now?

I'm surprised that the 27's section of route was incorporated into the 2, sure they could extended the 19 from Maypole to YW depot...
It sounds confusing, but the more I studied the route and used it for myself today, it now makes more sense for it to run like this.

Screenshot 2023-11-05 at 16-29-37 2 Birmingham - Maypole.png

There's a sort of 'loop' on the last few journeys of the day from city, these continue along Langstone Road then onto Gorleston Road, before following the route in reverse to terminate at Yardley Wood bus garage.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on November 05, 2023, 04:45:04 PM
Quote from: Steve3229vp on November 05, 2023, 03:29:27 PMI just wonder if it would of been better to re-route the 27 to take in some of the 2 route and terminate the 2 at Warstock as it used to

Curtailing the 27 reduces the number of buses used, thus bringing down the operating costs which presumably makes it viable again. 

The way the 2 has been rerouted doesn't add a lot more to the journey time, and while a couple of stops are no longer served, its a relatively short walk to other served stops.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Jack on November 05, 2023, 06:04:09 PM
Quote from: Stu on November 05, 2023, 04:45:04 PMCurtailing the 27 reduces the number of buses used, thus bringing down the operating costs which presumably makes it viable again.

The way the 2 has been rerouted doesn't add a lot more to the journey time, and while a couple of stops are no longer served, its a relatively short walk to other served stops.
I do think the 19 could be of been extended to YW depot to cover Glenavon Road and to save messing the 2 round. Wonder how the full length of Gorleston Road manages with buses operating it. It's very tight around Highters Heath as it was the old route so wonder how much more fun it is now.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Sh4318 on November 05, 2023, 06:07:44 PM
I took a ride on the changed 89 today

I boarded on Rutland Road, and there was a surprising amount of passengers alighting, not enough to justify 4746 being my chariot, but not too bad for the first day (especially a Sunday)

When we got to Shireland Road/Cape Hill, there were a couple of passengers that either boarded in confusion, before realising how indirect the service was (to West Bromwich, Smethwick High Street) and alighting, or just using the service to Victoria Park

At Blue Gate, passed another Enviro 400 doing the opposite route with a handful of passengers, again, not enough for a double decker, but a reasonable load given context

I still have doubts on the success & longevity of the service, the reroute to Bearwood isn't what I would've done with my lack of knowledge of route planning, but I admit I was pleasantly surprised
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on November 05, 2023, 06:22:25 PM
Quote from: Jack on November 05, 2023, 06:04:09 PMI do think the 19 could be of been extended to YW depot to cover Glenavon Road and to save messing the 2 round. Wonder how the full length of Gorleston Road manages with buses operating it. It's very tight around Highters Heath as it was the old route so wonder how much more fun it is now.
Extending the 19 might have involved adding an extra bus, which would then in turn make it unviable even with subsidy.

Gorleston Road was fine on my journey today, just needs those new bus stops to be installed for those passengers who previously boarded at the bottom ends of Langstone Road and Arlington Road to use.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: ellspurs on November 05, 2023, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: Stu on November 05, 2023, 06:22:25 PMExtending the 19 might have involved adding an extra bus, which would then in turn make it unviable even with subsidy.

Gorleston Road was fine on my journey today, just needs those new bus stops to be installed for those passengers who previously boarded at the bottom ends of Langstone Road and Arlington Road to use.
Given TfWM's track record, you're looking at 3 months+ (and that's when the flagpole was already there!)
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: SO6597 on November 05, 2023, 10:10:24 PM
Quote from: Jack on November 05, 2023, 04:04:18 PMHow does the 2's new route work? Is it a one  way loop or does it come back on itself?

It sounds confusing and if they was so bothered about keeping Glenavon Road served they should have left the 27. Also has Glenavon Road ever had Deckers serve it before now?

I'm surprised that the 27's section of route was incorporated into the 2, sure they could extended the 19 from Maypole to YW depot...
The 69 served Glenavon Road for many years and this was mainly double decker.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Stu on December 06, 2023, 07:29:56 PM
Quote from: Stu on November 05, 2023, 02:55:41 PMFirst things first, if the revised 2 is intended to replace the withdrawn part of the 27, the timetable hasn't been properly thought out as on Sundays, the 27 is timed to arrive at the bus garage after the 2 has been and gone! Meaning passengers changing from the 27 then have about a 25min wait!
I sent in some suggestion/feedback about this 'anomaly' to NX Bus, basically to suggest retiming the 27 so it gets to Yardley Wood bus depot ahead of the 2, allowing easy continuation of journey for those intending to go on to Maypole.

A month later, and I get the following bizarre response back, almost as if someone hasn't really absorbed or understood what I suggested.

QuoteThank you for your recent feedback received on 5 November 2023. I am very sorry for the delay in your response. 

I'm sorry to hear of the problems you've experienced with our 27 service from Yardley Wood Bus Station. I can certainly appreciate your concerns.


I have asked the manager at the operating garage who has confirmed the 27 service is scheduled to leave Yardley Wood at 12:31 and the next bus is out at 13:03. This service is due to terminate at Yardley Wood at 12:09, 12:39 and then 13:09. In terms of updating bus stop information, I will need you to kindly contact Travel for West Midlands (TfWM) as they are in charge of bus shelter and bus timetables. We will however monitor the service over the coming weeks and I can assure you that steps will be taken to improve the service.

And yes, I'm fully aware that passengers could just change at Haunch Lane, but this is less convenient for the elderly or infirm, who have to walk around the corner and then attempt to cross Yardley Wood Road to get to the nearest stop for the 2.
Title: Re: October Changes
Post by: Kevin_Brum12 on December 06, 2023, 09:24:46 PM

Quote from: Stu on December 06, 2023, 07:29:56 PMThank you for your recent feedback received on 5 November 2023. I am very sorry for the delay in your response. 

I'm sorry to hear of the problems you've experienced with our 27 service from Yardley Wood Bus Station. I can certainly appreciate your concerns.


I have asked the manager at the operating garage who has confirmed the 27 service is scheduled to leave Yardley Wood at 12:31 and the next bus is out at 13:03. This service is due to terminate at Yardley Wood at 12:09, 12:39 and then 13:09. In terms of updating bus stop information, I will need you to kindly contact Travel for West Midlands (TfWM) as they are in charge of bus shelter and bus timetables. We will however monitor the service over the coming weeks and I can assure you that steps will be taken to improve the service.
What an abysmal response from Customer Relations at National Express West Midlands.

Firstly, it must be me but as yet Yardley Wood does not have a bus station, unless it is one of these imaginary projects Rishi Sunak was coming up with at the Tory conference a couple of months ago.

Secondly there is no such organisation as "Travel for West Midlands".  There is of course Transport for West Midlands, who are in charge in of bus shelters (plural as they own rather more than one).  It is probably news to TfWM they are in charge of timetables, because as we know unless it is a subsidised route or journey, its down to the operator in the current unfranchised set up to create a timetable for a service and the route.

NXWM of course previously traded as Travel West Midlands, so using the phrase "Travel for West Midlands" in a response is only going to lead to confusion.  Surely if a matter in a letter relates to an issue within the purview of TfWM surely it would be easier to refer the matter to them and say you've done so.  Of course TfWM could rename to something completely different to stand out from bus operators of the past.  I hear the name "Centro" is available.

Makes me wonder what training on the West Midlands bus and public transport system is provided to the staff who compose these responses, as it is clearly not up to standard when e-mails come back like this.

If NXWM Customer Relations want some training for staff to improve the quality of their written responses I'm sure for a price it could be arranged.