Appear to be an increasing number of new drive technology demonstrator vehicles being produced by the major bus manufacturers. These vehicles appear to be under evaluation by many of the bus operators large and not so large. Was wondering whether NXWM planned to have any on trial in the foreseeable future. Would be good to have something different to comment on and discuss.
They should have a demonstrator E400MMC, I've heard they could be really popular...
A biogas Demonstrator Scania/E400City Demonstrator(actually owned by Nottingham CT) should see a few week service with NXWM from 1/8/19.
A photo of the vehicle, NXWM fleetnumber 4797, registration DD18 GAS will be on the main site later for those that haven't seen it on Facebook
Quote from: Tony on July 23, 2019, 07:50:54 PM
A biogas Demonstrator Scania/E400City Demonstrator(actually owned by Nottingham CT) should see a few week service with NXWM from 1/8/19.
A photo of the vehicle, NXWM fleetnumber 4797, registration DD18 GAS will be on the main site later for those that haven't seen it on Facebook
What garage will it be going to
Quote from: Tony on July 23, 2019, 07:50:54 PM
A biogas Demonstrator Scania/E400City Demonstrator(actually owned by Nottingham CT) should see a few week service with NXWM from 1/8/19.
A photo of the vehicle, NXWM fleetnumber 4797, registration DD18 GAS will be on the main site later for those that haven't seen it on Facebook
Will it actually see passenger service this one?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 23, 2019, 08:32:49 PM
Will it actually see passenger service this one?
"Should see a few weeks service"
Will it be at the PN open day?
Quote from: the trainbasher on July 23, 2019, 09:01:22 PM
Will it be at the PN open day?
As I put it will be from 1/8/19 - No
Quote from: Tony on July 23, 2019, 09:02:26 PM
As I put it will be from 1/8/19 - No
Ah, didn't notice the date. Sorry
Is this serious interest/sign of intent on the part of NXWM or just passing curiosity. NXWM seems to be well behind many operators both small and large in introducing 'new drive systems' vehicles with their first true electric vehicles still over 6 months away. Is it cost or lack of trust in the new technology vehicles holding them back?
Quote from: RW on July 24, 2019, 02:50:52 PM
Is this serious interest/sign of intent on the part of NXWM or just passing curiosity. NXWM seems to be well behind many operators both small and large in introducing 'new drive systems' vehicles with their first true electric vehicles still over 6 months away. Is it cost or lack of trust in the new technology vehicles holding them back?
Behind?
They operated Gas before any other operator in the UK, and were the first to announce a large order for Electric double deckers!
Quote from: RW on July 24, 2019, 02:50:52 PM
Is this serious interest/sign of intent on the part of NXWM or just passing curiosity. NXWM seems to be well behind many operators both small and large in introducing 'new drive systems' vehicles with their first true electric vehicles still over 6 months away. Is it cost or lack of trust in the new technology vehicles holding them back?
You forgot the gas powered Volvos used at Walsall from the late 1990's....
How would the self drive buses work?
Quote from: Tony on July 24, 2019, 03:27:07 PM
Behind?
They operated Gas before any other operator in the UK, and were the first to announce a large order for Electric double deckers!
Not forgetting the huge investment in the hybrid technology too. NXWM and its predecessors have always, in my opinion, been at the forefront (not behind) of innovation in public transport, though they may not always shout it from the roof tops.
My earliest memories of this innovation came with Tracline 65 and guided buses, though I'm sure Tony could go back even further!
On a side note, what demonstrators have NXWM and its predecessors used to trial new vehicles.
I seem to remember Optare Excel P447SWX being trialled many moons ago.....
@Tony can you confirm and/or elaborate?
Quote from: Wumpty on July 25, 2019, 10:06:21 AM
Not forgetting the huge investment in the hybrid technology too. NXWM and its predecessors have always, in my opinion, been at the forefront (not behind) of innovation in public transport, though they may not always shout it from the roof tops.
My earliest memories of this innovation came with Tracline 65 and guided buses, though I'm sure Tony could go back even further!
From observation of earlier rounds of Green Bus funding awards, Birmingham certainly didn't seem to get the same proportion of funding as say Manchester frequently received, whether that's based on who's submitted bids & what for I'm not certain.
Quote from: Winston on July 25, 2019, 10:59:40 AM
From observation of earlier rounds of Green Bus funding awards, Birmingham certainly didn't seem to get the same proportion of funding as say Manchester frequently received, whether that's based on who's submitted bids & what for I'm not certain.
I still think it's a case of "they who shout loudest" get the funding. Brum wasn't and hasn't been particularly vocal when it comes to its interest in new tech or greener energy for public transport. There's an excellent heritage of innovation in the West Midlands that would've flourished with more and sustained investment, if only they'd have crowed about it more.
Looking at demonstrators past, I'm sure this B10B was a demonstrator then purchased by WM Buses with the fleet of production B10Bs heralding the start of the low floor generation of buses - albeit kneeling rather than continuous low floor throughout.
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Flive.staticflickr.com%2F6142%2F6002927904_f67db91273_b.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fjohn-s-91%2F6002927904&docid=-CsAhoPWamIQGM&tbnid=ulDkhd8LzcpNFM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjDqJTH6c_jAhWiw4sKHXZYAeEQMwh8KCkwKQ..i&w=1024&h=683&bih=957&biw=1920&q=west%20midlands%20travel%20demonstrator&ved=0ahUKEwjDqJTH6c_jAhWiw4sKHXZYAeEQMwh8KCkwKQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
Quote from: Wumpty on July 25, 2019, 11:05:06 AM
I still think it's a case of "they who shout loudest" get the funding. Brum wasn't and hasn't been particularly vocal when it comes to its interest in new tech or greener energy for public transport. There's an excellent heritage of innovation in the West Midlands that would've flourished with more and sustained investment, if only they'd have crowed about it more.
Fair point, funding seems to have increased of late via the WM Bus Alliance / TfWM / Birmingham City Council / B'ham Clean Air Zone etc for Euro 6 upgrade kits & others below etc.
The Electrics appear to have gone back a year based on initial proposed delivery dates, the hydrogen fuel cell buses seem to have gone very quiet of late. The awards were made some 3 years ago (award announcement 25th July 2016)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-awards-30-million-funding-for-cleaner-greener-bus-journeys
Where's 4797 going to be based?
If we're talking demonstrator vehicles, how about this back in WMPTE days, an interesting one to me as I've lived in Merseyside all my life...anyway here's brand new Merseyside PTE Dennis Dominator/Alexander 0047 on Colmore Row in 1982 https://www.flickr.com/photos/57647425@N05/26639916020 going to somewhere called 'Bangham Pit'...I believe it was based at Harborne. Apologies if going a bit off topic from NXWM, but of interest historically with it's predecessor...
Quote from: nathanielrwi on July 27, 2019, 03:01:35 PM
Where's 4797 going to be based?
It has now arrived at BC
Quote from: markcf83 on July 24, 2019, 03:48:02 PM
You forgot the gas powered Volvos used at Walsall from the late 1990's....
Would gas ever be considered again?
I remember it hitting local media at the time, when they had to be modified, as cracks were found in the tanks ISTR.
As ISTR, originally there were gas refilling stations at a nearby Walsall Council depot & Wolves Bus Station, when they were first introduced onto the 529.
Was there a specific reason they were demoted onto the Walsall local services?
I guess the gas station at Wolves was removed for some reason, but did they become too unreliable to operate over a long distance from Walsall?
I know they were converted to diesel at some point, with one ending up in the training fleet.
Quote from: Westy on July 27, 2019, 07:54:18 PM
Would gas ever be considered again?
I remember it hitting local media at the time, when they had to be modified, as cracks were found in the tanks ISTR.
As ISTR, originally there were gas refilling stations at a nearby Walsall Council depot & Wolves Bus Station, when they were first introduced onto the 529.
Was there a specific reason they were demoted onto the Walsall local services?
I guess the gas station at Wolves was removed for some reason, but did they become too unreliable to operate over a long distance from Walsall?
I know they were converted to diesel at some point, with one ending up in the training fleet.
This is a Bio gas demonstrator. Very different to previous gas buses. Bio gas doesn't need to be stored in high pressure tanks.
The B10L ultra's were CNG (compressed natural gas) with roof mounted pressurised gas tanks. The Hydrogen fuel cell buses will be the same as these, if they materialise.
Quote from: Westy on July 27, 2019, 07:54:18 PM
Would gas ever be considered again?
I remember it hitting local media at the time, when they had to be modified, as cracks were found in the tanks ISTR.
As ISTR, originally there were gas refilling stations at a nearby Walsall Council depot & Wolves Bus Station, when they were first introduced onto the 529.
Was there a specific reason they were demoted onto the Walsall local services?
I guess the gas station at Wolves was removed for some reason, but did they become too unreliable to operate over a long distance from Walsall?
I know they were converted to diesel at some point, with one ending up in the training fleet.
Gas filling station at Wolverhampton bus station? Don't remember that.
As for operating long distances from Walsall they were regulars on the 311 to Stourbridge and were also used on the X51 when it started
So is there any serious interest/intent in NXWM trialling the vehicle or is there just a degree of curiosity?
Quote from: Tony on July 27, 2019, 09:12:07 PM
Gas filling station at Wolverhampton bus station? Don't remember that.
As for operating long distances from Walsall they were regulars on the 311 to Stourbridge and were also used on the X51 when it started
Maybe I was wrong about the gas at Wolves BS, but I was sure I read somewhere there was another gas facility used besides Walsall.
Must admit I don't remember them on the 311(but that would have been long before one of my jobs moved to Wednesbury/Great Bridge!) or the X51, but I do recall seeing one on the 329. I'm assuming you are saying they were still gassed when you mentioned the routes above, or had they been dieseled by then?
Quote from: Westy on July 27, 2019, 10:38:47 PM
Maybe I was wrong about the gas at Wolves BS, but I was sure I read somewhere there was another gas facility used besides Walsall.
Must admit I don't remember them on the 311(but that would have been long before one of my jobs moved to Wednesbury/Great Bridge!) or the X51, but I do recall seeing one on the 329. I'm assuming you are saying they were still gassed when you mentioned the routes above, or had they been dieseled by then?
Still gas powered then.
Quote from: Westy on July 27, 2019, 10:38:47 PM
Maybe I was wrong about the gas at Wolves BS, but I was sure I read somewhere there was another gas facility used besides Walsall.
Must admit I don't remember them on the 311(but that would have been long before one of my jobs moved to Wednesbury/Great Bridge!) or the X51, but I do recall seeing one on the 329. I'm assuming you are saying they were still gassed when you mentioned the routes above, or had they been dieseled by then?
They used a filling facility at British Gas Dudley - not ideal given the tight site access, but interesting to see all the same.
Quote from: Tony on July 28, 2019, 08:53:27 AM
Still gas powered then.
When did they get converted? I've seen a couple of photos of them on the 311, but without the 'Gas Power' vinyls.
Quote from: Wumpty on July 29, 2019, 08:07:31 AM
They used a filling facility at British Gas Dudley - not ideal given the tight site access, but interesting to see all the same.
a nice cushy little number for the ex union rep who used to take them to British Gas flood st
Is the demonstrator out and about now?
Yesterday's photo of 4797 in Deritend shows fairly impressive looking vehicle. The acquisition of any such vehicles would be a clear statement of intent by NXWM to help address emission issues in the West Midlands. Will it happen? Hmmm.
When is 4979 being returned??
Any news on 4797? When is it going out into service? I'm itching to get a ride on it
Quote from: WM_58 on September 11, 2019, 12:04:37 PM
Any news on 4797? When is it going out into service? I'm itching to get a ride on it
Or just go to Nottingham who's bus it is, and have already got over 100 ;)
4797 is going out on the 45/47 today. It entered service in Birmingham at 10:08 on a 45 to Longbridge. Apparently it's going back to garage shortly though from what I've been told.
Is that the Enviro400H City demonstrator?
Quote from: Michael Bevan on September 19, 2019, 10:24:18 AM
4797 is going out on the 45/47 today. It entered service in Birmingham at 10:08 on a 45 to Longbridge. If it stays out all day, it'll be out until the 22:48 45 from Birmingham to Longbridge.
Well it didn't turn up at West Heath at 1049 as it should have. It wasn't the bus behind either, unless it was running 25 mins late at which point I gave up ???
Quote from: Dylanbusboy45 on September 19, 2019, 11:27:06 AM
Well it didn't turn up at West Heath at 1049 as it should have. It wasn't the bus behind either, unless it was running 25 mins late at which point I gave up ???
I've been told it was the one after. Apparently it's going back to garage soon though.
Quote from: Michael Bevan on September 19, 2019, 11:34:48 AM
I've been told it was the one after. Apparently it's going back to garage soon though.
Ah ok. Thanks anyway
Quote from: Busboy105 on September 19, 2019, 10:29:00 AM
Is that the Enviro400H City demonstrator?
It's not a hybrid. It's a biogas demonstrator (owned by Nottingham City Transport), a Scania N280UD with Enviro 400CityCBG bodywork.
Just left city on the 47
Quote from: Nathan on September 19, 2019, 12:18:44 PM
It's not a hybrid. It's a biogas demonstrator (owned by Nottingham City Transport), a Scania N280UD with Enviro 400CityCBG bodywork.
Recently been confirmed as not being owned by Nottingham City Transport, but by Scania.
Quote from: Speebird96 on September 19, 2019, 12:25:43 PM
Recently been confirmed as not being owned by Nottingham City Transport, but by Scania.
Really. How come NX are dealing with Nottingham
Quote from: Tony on September 19, 2019, 12:22:46 PM
Just left city on the 47
Will it be staying out all day on there
@Tony ? Thanks
Quote from: Tony on September 19, 2019, 12:31:56 PM
Really. How come NX are dealing with Nottingham
That I don't have an answer but they have made it public on their Fleet News page on Facebook (which management do run) that they don't own it. The demonstrator is also configured slightly different to NCT's production batch of Scania's.
Quote from: Dylanbusboy45 on September 19, 2019, 12:41:42 PM
Will it be staying out all day on there @Tony ? Thanks
Just arrived into city 'not in service'
Quote from: Tony on September 19, 2019, 12:31:56 PM
Really. How come NX are dealing with Nottingham
You did say once that one of their buses came here for a paint job
Quote from: mesub on September 19, 2019, 03:38:43 PM
You did say once that one of their buses came here for a paint job
What's that got to do with NX borrowing this bus
Quote from: Tony on September 19, 2019, 04:00:23 PM
What's that got to do with NX borrowing this bus
It doesn't.
4797 is on the 61/63 today. It's just left Birmingham on a trip to Frankley. Apparently it's running as a duplicate on the Bristol Road to allow the vehicle to be showcased, and to let people take photos/ask questions according to the driver.
Edit: Just come off the 61/63 and is parked on Moor St Queensway whilst the driver has his break. Will be going back to garage after.
There's another demonstrator due very soon which will be running as an extra along a route as a trial, but won't be fitted out to carry normal passengers (Ticket machine etc). Enthusiasts may be allowed to travel on it for a donation to charity.
How long is 4797 at NX for?
4797 is out on the 23/24 today.
Quote from: Michael Bevan on September 23, 2019, 11:58:40 AM
4797 is out on the 23/24 today.
If it's still out please let me know.
Going back to the garage 4797
It's on the 97 this lunchtime for anyone after it.
Quote from: Nathan on September 24, 2019, 12:23:54 PM
It's on the 97 this lunchtime for anyone after it.
went back to depot about 2.10
Quote from: Solo1 on September 24, 2019, 04:40:01 PM
went back to depot about 2.10
I bet you still got it though?...
4797 is out on the 97. I'm on it just passing Kitts Green going towards Chelmsley.
Quote from: WMT3000 on September 25, 2019, 07:39:30 AM
4797 is out on the 97. I'm on it just passing Kitts Green going towards Chelmsley.
anyone know what times it will be in city thanks
4797 is now on 60
Would seem 4797 is still on loan to NXWM; has just passed me 'not in service' on St Martins Queensway
Quote from: CL on October 09, 2019, 09:38:29 AM
Would seem 4797 is still on loan to NXWM; has just passed me 'not in service' on St Martins Queensway
Yes went out in service on a morning peak board. Possibly on the 60 this afternoon (no promises)
Quote from: Tony on October 09, 2019, 12:36:53 PM
Yes went out in service on a morning peak board. Possibly on the 60 this afternoon (no promises)
It's been out on the Harbornes during the day. It's just going back to garage.
There was an Electric E400 City in London livery on trade plates driving around the city centre this afternoon (Carrs Lane, Dale End, Albert Street and Moor Street).
Have NX borrowed one to try out?
Quote from: Gareth on October 11, 2019, 02:11:41 PM
There was an Electric E400 City in London livery on trade plates driving around the city centre this afternoon (Carrs Lane, Dale End, Albert Street and Moor Street).
Have NX borrowed one to try out?
If so, I wonder if that was what
@Tony was alluding to ???
Quote from: Tony on September 20, 2019, 12:56:20 PM
There's another demonstrator due very soon which will be running as an extra along a route as a trial, but won't be fitted out to carry normal passengers (Ticket machine etc). Enthusiasts may be allowed to travel on it for a donation to charity.
Quote from: Gareth on October 11, 2019, 02:11:41 PM
There was an Electric E400 City in London livery on trade plates driving around the city centre this afternoon (Carrs Lane, Dale End, Albert Street and Moor Street).
Have NX borrowed one to try out?
It was on Streetsbrook Road in Solihull this afternoon with something along the lines of 'Electric Bus Training' on the destination display. Type training for the forthcoming arrival of the new buses for the 6?
Quote from: Mike K on October 12, 2019, 08:16:53 PM
It was on Streetsbrook Road in Solihull this afternoon with something along the lines of 'Electric Bus Training' on the destination display. Type training for the forthcoming arrival of the new buses for the 6?
Precisely that ;)
Quote from: Tony on October 12, 2019, 11:21:35 AM
Quote from: Cheese on October 12, 2019, 11:04:10 AM
A London liveried AD Enviro 400 EV City is currently parked on the Stratford Road just south of Robin Hood Island. On trade plates, not sure if this was at the NEC show a week or so ago?
On loan to NXWM being tested on the 6 route ready for when the new ones arrive. (No passengers)
Quote from: CL on October 12, 2019, 08:19:53 PM
Precisely that ;)
On loan to NXWM being tested on the 6 route ready for when the new ones arrive. (No passengers)
Oops, sorry, missed that!
So is this the demonstrator that we might be allowed on for a donation?
Quote from: Stevo on October 13, 2019, 02:07:53 PM
So is this the demonstrator that we might be allowed on for a donation?
Doesn't look like it
Quote from: Tony on October 12, 2019, 11:21:35 AM
On loan to NXWM being tested on the 6 route ready for when the new ones arrive. (No passengers)
Quote from: Stevo on October 13, 2019, 02:07:53 PM
So is this the demonstrator that we might be allowed on for a donation?
That was going to be an idea, but not staying long enough now. Tomorrow will probably be its last day
4797 is on the 23 this morning and is my haulage to work. Very smart light and airy interior, the skylights really make a difference.
4797 has left
https://flic.kr/p/2hQXbws - DD18GAS now on loan to Plymouth Citybus, seemingly.. Still carrying the 4797 fleetnumber, too! ;)
Quote from: CL on November 25, 2019, 10:06:48 PM
https://flic.kr/p/2hQXbws - DD18GAS now on loan to Plymouth Citybus, seemingly.. Still carrying the 4797 fleetnumber, too! ;)
It went back to ADL Falkirk then has been at First Bristol prior to that.
Quote from: Speebird96 on September 19, 2019, 12:25:43 PM
Recently been confirmed as not being owned by Nottingham City Transport, but by Scania.
Now in service as Nottingham 500 as built
Not particularly related to NXWM, but saves from starting another thread;
The Caetano H2.City Gold demonstrator (previously carrying Portuguese registration AD45LZ) has been registered in the UK as FJ70 GYD. Looks like it's currently with Stagecoach in Inverness.