I know there's been talk that Arriva where losing some routes in Cannock in September does anybody know what and to who
Evening & Sunday 2 & the Evening & Sunday 33 are so far known about.
Both to National Express Walsall depot.
Im sure theres some others. Pye greens were one
Wonder when the 62/67/68 and 23 are up for tender
On the subject of the 33, why dont Centro & Staffs come to some arrangement & run the entire route on evenings & Sundays under one operator, or at least extend the Sunday Norton Canes to Brownhills, so connections can be made south instead having to go via Cannock to go south.
The Monday to Saturday evenings run to & from Brownhills, so why cant they fill the gap on Sundays?
Quote from: Westy on June 22, 2013, 08:45:20 PM
On the subject of the 33, why dont Centro & Staffs come to some arrangement & run the entire route on evenings & Sundays under one operator, or at least extend the Sunday Norton Canes to Brownhills, so connections can be made south instead having to go via Cannock to go south.
The Monday to Saturday evenings run to & from Brownhills, so why cant they fill the gap on Sundays?
As far as I know this isn't a plan so don't take this comment that it is going to happen, but NXWM could even combine the 935A tender with the 33 one and give a Sunday & Evening service Birmingham to Rugeley
Would be a decent competition for the train there tony
The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?
Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?
I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?
Quote from: Westy on June 23, 2013, 12:30:57 AM
The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?
Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?
I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?
Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted
Quote from: Tony on June 23, 2013, 09:25:33 AM
Quote from: Westy on June 23, 2013, 12:30:57 AM
The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?
Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?
I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?
Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted
And that is how monopolies are formed!
Or lost....in the case of Arriva....
Quote from: andy on June 23, 2013, 09:51:59 AM
Quote from: Tony on June 23, 2013, 09:25:33 AM
Quote from: Westy on June 23, 2013, 12:30:57 AM
The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?
Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?
I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?
Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted
And that is how monopolies are formed!
Not sure how that is worked out. Any operator is allowed to work out something cheaper and offer it. If and operator looks at a timetable offered on a tender that requires 4 vehicles and says if we run it this way we can do it with three, and so we can bid at 75% of what we would for the original spec do you really think a cash strapped tendering authority should take the higher one
I think its good that nx have bid and won maybe other firms will bid on other routes in the area. Maggie's ( I still hope shes rotting in hell) vision was for competition and variety, ( of course all thats happened is public monopolies are replaced with private and if she didnt know that she mustve been stupid) so itll be good to have some :-D
Quote from: Tony on June 23, 2013, 10:36:54 AM
Quote from: andy on June 23, 2013, 09:51:59 AM
Quote from: Tony on June 23, 2013, 09:25:33 AM
Quote from: Westy on June 23, 2013, 12:30:57 AM
The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?
Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?
I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?
Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted
And that is how monopolies are formed!
Not sure how that is worked out. Any operator is allowed to work out something cheaper and offer it. If and operator looks at a timetable offered on a tender that requires 4 vehicles and says if we run it this way we can do it with three, and so we can bid at 75% of what we would for the original spec do you really think a cash strapped tendering authority should take the higher one
Of course they will accept it as they need to make savings. But the principle of such an arrangement goes against the principle of competition and deregulation and the practice should be investigated by the OFT in my opinion. Large operators are taking advantage of the the fact that local authorities are operating to an austerity programme in that the authorities are now far more obsessed by cost than such things as market share, quality partnerships etc, and expanding their market share accordingly. Everybody knows that a small independent has no chance offering the savings that NX have done here, as the independent does not have the flexibility of offsetting the cost elsewhere in their operation.
I would equate these arrangements to 'loss leaders' used by the likes of Tesco or Asda, whereby they will sell items at below cost price and subsidise it with the profit from elsewhere in their operation, just to gain territory and market share. That is how you lose corner shops and convenience stores. And it also how you lose small and medium sized independent bus operators.
Of course they will accept it as they need to make savings. But the principle of such an arrangement goes against the principle of competition and deregulation and the practice should be investigated by the OFT in my opinion. Large operators are taking advantage of the the fact that local authorities are operating to an austerity programme in that the authorities are now far more obsessed by cost than such things as market share, quality partnerships etc, and expanding their market share accordingly. Everybody knows that a small independent has no chance offering the savings that NX have done here, as the independent does not have the flexibility of offsetting the cost elsewhere in their operation.
I would equate these arrangements to 'loss leaders' used by the likes of Tesco or Asda, whereby they will sell items at below cost price and subsidise it with the profit from elsewhere in their operation, just to gain territory and market share. That is how you lose corner shops and convenience stores. And it also how you lose small and medium sized independent bus operators.
[/quote]
But this is competition in action. There cant be different rules just because a company is big or small. And how many times have these 'small or medium sized' companies been able to undercut larger companies like Arriva and NXWM by paying their drivers less, not funding CPC training etc etc so they can offer a lower tender price? It seems on here it is fair game to continually criticise the bigger companies when the tendering system gives everyone a chance. If a company can run a service reliably and cheaper to the authority good on them!!!
Theres rumours arriva may be losing the 23 as well
Quote from: andy on June 23, 2013, 12:17:30 PM
Quote from: Tony on June 23, 2013, 10:36:54 AM
Quote from: andy on June 23, 2013, 09:51:59 AM
Quote from: Tony on June 23, 2013, 09:25:33 AM
Quote from: Westy on June 23, 2013, 12:30:57 AM
The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?
Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?
I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?
Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted
And that is how monopolies are formed!
Not sure how that is worked out. Any operator is allowed to work out something cheaper and offer it. If and operator looks at a timetable offered on a tender that requires 4 vehicles and says if we run it this way we can do it with three, and so we can bid at 75% of what we would for the original spec do you really think a cash strapped tendering authority should take the higher one
Of course they will accept it as they need to make savings. But the principle of such an arrangement goes against the principle of competition and deregulation and the practice should be investigated by the OFT in my opinion. Large operators are taking advantage of the the fact that local authorities are operating to an austerity programme in that the authorities are now far more obsessed by cost than such things as market share, quality partnerships etc, and expanding their market share accordingly. Everybody knows that a small independent has no chance offering the savings that NX have done here, as the independent does not have the flexibility of offsetting the cost elsewhere in their operation.
I would equate these arrangements to 'loss leaders' used by the likes of Tesco or Asda, whereby they will sell items at below cost price and subsidise it with the profit from elsewhere in their operation, just to gain territory and market share. That is how you lose corner shops and convenience stores. And it also how you lose small and medium sized independent bus operators.
I think your argument will be somewhat invalid when the winner of two services in this particular tender round is revealed (assuming they aren't thrown back).
Which particular services?
Also other than the 2 and 33 what else is in this tender round?
Quote from: bob on June 23, 2013, 03:44:59 PM
Also other than the 2 and 33 what else is in this tender round?
The X56 is another
Quote from: Tony on June 23, 2013, 04:01:15 PM
Quote from: bob on June 23, 2013, 03:44:59 PM
Also other than the 2 and 33 what else is in this tender round?
The X56 is another
To diamond probably
Quote from: a220 on June 23, 2013, 02:12:49 PM
Quote from: andy on June 23, 2013, 12:17:30 PM
Quote from: Tony on June 23, 2013, 10:36:54 AM
Quote from: andy on June 23, 2013, 09:51:59 AM
Quote from: Tony on June 23, 2013, 09:25:33 AM
Quote from: Westy on June 23, 2013, 12:30:57 AM
The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?
Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?
I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?
Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted
And that is how monopolies are formed!
Not sure how that is worked out. Any operator is allowed to work out something cheaper and offer it. If and operator looks at a timetable offered on a tender that requires 4 vehicles and says if we run it this way we can do it with three, and so we can bid at 75% of what we would for the original spec do you really think a cash strapped tendering authority should take the higher one
Of course they will accept it as they need to make savings. But the principle of such an arrangement goes against the principle of competition and deregulation and the practice should be investigated by the OFT in my opinion. Large operators are taking advantage of the the fact that local authorities are operating to an austerity programme in that the authorities are now far more obsessed by cost than such things as market share, quality partnerships etc, and expanding their market share accordingly. Everybody knows that a small independent has no chance offering the savings that NX have done here, as the independent does not have the flexibility of offsetting the cost elsewhere in their operation.
I would equate these arrangements to 'loss leaders' used by the likes of Tesco or Asda, whereby they will sell items at below cost price and subsidise it with the profit from elsewhere in their operation, just to gain territory and market share. That is how you lose corner shops and convenience stores. And it also how you lose small and medium sized independent bus operators.
I think your argument will be somewhat invalid when the winner of two services in this particular tender round is revealed (assuming they aren't thrown back).
Also there is no way NX would tender for work at a loss. Small Independants have a much higher proportion of their fleet available evenings & Sundays for work like this as most only run commercially 7am to 7pm so in theory should be able to do it for just fuel & wages, which will be less than NX's costs
Quote from: Tony on June 22, 2013, 08:51:41 PM
Quote from: Westy on June 22, 2013, 08:45:20 PM
On the subject of the 33, why dont Centro & Staffs come to some arrangement & run the entire route on evenings & Sundays under one operator, or at least extend the Sunday Norton Canes to Brownhills, so connections can be made south instead having to go via Cannock to go south.
The Monday to Saturday evenings run to & from Brownhills, so why cant they fill the gap on Sundays?
As far as I know this isn't a plan so don't take this comment that it is going to happen, but NXWM could even combine the 935A tender with the 33 one and give a Sunday & Evening service Birmingham to Rugeley
That would be good. Would love to travel on that on a trident
Why a trident? It usually has either 487*-488* E400 and Wright Eclipse gemini B7TL
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 23, 2013, 06:08:23 PM
Why a trident? It usually has either 487*-488* E400 and Wright Eclipse gemini B7TL
I know, but the trident scream can't be beaten.
Would I be correct in thinking that the services will be operated using vehicles with electronic displays, as Walsall's roller blinds won't be up to date?
Do the following exist on the roller blinds : Brownhills & Cannock(both with no 'via' points!)?
I'm guessing the following no longer exist on a Walsall blind, Hednesford & Norton Canes, along with Rugeley.
Would they bother updating the roller blinds these days, as most of the Walsall fleet appears to be electronic displays?
Another point too, was it ever considered, in case the tender was ever won, of including a full set of Walsall area destinations on the roller blind, so 'Gillity Village' could still be shown for example?
Quote from: Westy on June 24, 2013, 10:27:51 PM
Would they bother updating the roller blinds these days, as most of the Walsall fleet appears to be electronic displays?
Another point too, was it ever considered, in case the tender was ever won, of including a full set of Walsall area destinations on the roller blind, so 'Gillity Village' could still be shown for example?
I very doubt that roller blinds would be replaced, they will more than likely use newer vehicles to make maximum impact.
They could choose to add to the existing roller blinds by using inserts if any new tenders/contracts are won, but with the proportion of newer single deckers at Walsall, I would have buses with digital blinds would be used which can be re-programmed in a matter of minutes
Itll mean full size buses then
Quote from: bob on June 25, 2013, 07:58:00 AM
Itll mean full size buses then
Bob,
Other than 6 x B6LE (P-S reg) WA which I doubt you would be very happy with, WA doesn't have any other options at present
Does the new tender include equivalent journeys to the 745 & 845 from Hednesford on Sundays, which arrive in Bloxwich around 830 & 930, or have those journeys been cut?
The b6s internally at least are loads better than arrivas shit darts and esp the awful sb120s
Its good to see Arriva have someone come into there turf for a change to them intruding on others, it is a shame nx are getting the route as I would of loved to see diamond come into Cannock.
On the subject of monopolies its good to see arriva have theres hacked at in Cannock and its also good to see nx go into other areas and hopefully build on it with commercial services (like new 936).
My only concern is the passenger. Everything is getting more and more exspensive and passengers aren't so fortunate to have a product like Nbus is Staffordshire so It means buying additional tickets. That I think is something which local auorthorities are significantly overlooking. If nx do pick up a 33 service that means 3 different companies on a route who aren't actually competing as it the sense like the competition on the 4. I would love to actually see the subject of bus tenders brought up by centro at there exibitions they do and to actually give passengers a say in who then want to operate there service, afterall we as tax payers are funding these services so surely its right we get a choice in what we are paying for.
To end I would like to wish every sucsess to nx and to ariva.....HAHA :P
I can see your point with the 2 and 33 to walsall say if u went in an afternoon and came back on an evening. If you bought single fare you might save though as nx may be cheaper. Be goid to see the 936 extend to cannock itd pick upthe daytime 32/33 business and Iit can get busy
Quote from: Westy on June 26, 2013, 07:28:42 AM
Does the new tender include equivalent journeys to the 745 & 845 from Hednesford on Sundays, which arrive in Bloxwich around 830 & 930, or have those journeys been cut?
Anybody?
Quote from: dannygill on June 27, 2013, 10:46:15 PM
Its good to see Arriva have someone come into there turf for a change to them intruding on others, it is a shame nx are getting the route as I would of loved to see diamond come into Cannock.
See my comments above about these routes
Which comments tony? Think theyre on the other thread :) its a real shame whats happening :(
Quote from: bob on July 08, 2013, 07:29:49 PM
Which comments tony? Think theyre on the other thread :) its a real shame whats happening :(
Yes, sorry, will post it here as well for those who haven't read the other topic, there is no guarantee that NX will be in Cannock at All, Arriva have registered most journeys on the 2 & 33 and all the 25/26 journeys commercially. The remaining 2 and 33 journeys are being rebid for
good to see arriva aren't going down without a fight back!
Good? Yea they can continue ripping us off for daysavers at 6 quid a time to travel on shit knackered buses as opposed to 3.90 for a better service? How can it be good that they get to keep their monopoly? Nx still sticking with the X51 tony? I really hopethey launch an attack on arriva either here or in the wm...kill off their joke of a 19 ssrvice maybe...it would be ace if they blew them out of the water on the 1 as well :-P
Quote from: bob on July 08, 2013, 07:42:50 PM
Good? Yea they can continue ripping us off for daysavers at 6 quid a time to travel on shit knackered buses as opposed to 3.90 for a better service? How can it be good that they get to keep their monopoly? Nx still sticking with the X51 tony? I really hopethey launch an attack on arriva either here or in the wm...kill off their joke of a 19 ssrvice maybe...it would be ace if they blew them out of the water on the 1 as well :-P
Change the record, mate.
Im stating that total monopolies arent good if you got a problem with that I dont really give a s##t....
Quote from: dannygill on July 08, 2013, 07:36:11 PM
good to see arriva aren't going down without a fight back!
I personally think Arriva have something up their sleeve which they are not letting on to yet.
Arriva being now owned by DB anything is possible
Up their sleeve???? If they have i doubt itll be in cannock lol