Arriva tenders lost

[Bob]

Theres rumours arriva may be losing the 23 as well

[a220]

The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?

Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?

I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?

Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted

And that is how monopolies are formed!

Not sure how that is worked out. Any operator is allowed to work out something cheaper and offer it. If and operator looks at a timetable offered on a tender that requires 4 vehicles and says if we run it this way we can do it with three, and so we can bid at 75% of what we would for the original spec do you really think a cash strapped tendering authority should take the higher one

Of course they will accept it as they need to make savings. But the principle of such an arrangement goes against the principle of competition and deregulation and the practice should be investigated by the OFT in my opinion. Large operators are taking advantage of the the fact that local authorities are operating to an austerity programme in that the authorities are now far more obsessed by cost than such things as market share, quality partnerships etc, and expanding  their market share accordingly. Everybody knows that a small independent has no chance offering the savings that NX have done here, as the independent does not have the flexibility of offsetting the cost elsewhere in their operation.

I would equate these arrangements to 'loss leaders' used by the likes of Tesco or Asda, whereby they will sell items at below cost price and subsidise it with the profit from elsewhere in their operation, just to gain territory and market share. That is how you lose corner shops and convenience stores. And it also how you lose small and medium sized independent bus operators.

I think your argument will be somewhat invalid when the winner of two services in this particular tender round is revealed (assuming they aren't thrown back).

[Bob]

Which particular services?

[Bob]

Also other than the 2 and 33 what else is in this tender round?

[Tony]

Also other than the 2 and 33 what else is in this tender round?

The X56 is another

[Dylan4579]

Also other than the 2 and 33 what else is in this tender round?

The X56 is another

To diamond probably

[Tony]

The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?

Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?

I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?

Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted

And that is how monopolies are formed!

Not sure how that is worked out. Any operator is allowed to work out something cheaper and offer it. If and operator looks at a timetable offered on a tender that requires 4 vehicles and says if we run it this way we can do it with three, and so we can bid at 75% of what we would for the original spec do you really think a cash strapped tendering authority should take the higher one

Of course they will accept it as they need to make savings. But the principle of such an arrangement goes against the principle of competition and deregulation and the practice should be investigated by the OFT in my opinion. Large operators are taking advantage of the the fact that local authorities are operating to an austerity programme in that the authorities are now far more obsessed by cost than such things as market share, quality partnerships etc, and expanding  their market share accordingly. Everybody knows that a small independent has no chance offering the savings that NX have done here, as the independent does not have the flexibility of offsetting the cost elsewhere in their operation.

I would equate these arrangements to 'loss leaders' used by the likes of Tesco or Asda, whereby they will sell items at below cost price and subsidise it with the profit from elsewhere in their operation, just to gain territory and market share. That is how you lose corner shops and convenience stores. And it also how you lose small and medium sized independent bus operators.

I think your argument will be somewhat invalid when the winner of two services in this particular tender round is revealed (assuming they aren't thrown back).

Also there is no way NX would tender for work at a loss. Small Independants have a much higher proportion of their fleet available evenings & Sundays for work like this as most only run commercially 7am to 7pm so in theory should be able to do it for just fuel & wages, which will be less than NX's costs

[Dylan4579]

On the subject of the 33, why dont Centro & Staffs come to some arrangement & run the entire route on evenings & Sundays under one operator, or at least extend the Sunday Norton Canes to Brownhills, so connections can be made south instead having to go via Cannock to go south.

The Monday to Saturday evenings run to & from Brownhills, so why cant they fill the gap on Sundays?

As far as I know this isn't a plan so don't take this comment that it is going to happen, but NXWM could even combine the 935A tender with the 33 one and give a Sunday & Evening service Birmingham to Rugeley

That would be good. Would love to travel on that on a trident

[Trident 4609]

Why a trident? It usually has either 487*-488* E400 and Wright Eclipse gemini B7TL

[Dylan4579]

Why a trident? It usually has either 487*-488* E400 and Wright Eclipse gemini B7TL

I know, but the trident scream can't be beaten.

[Westy]

Would I be correct in thinking that the services will be operated using vehicles with electronic displays, as Walsall's roller blinds won't be up to date?

Do the following exist on the roller blinds : Brownhills & Cannock(both with no 'via' points!)?

I'm guessing the following no longer exist on a Walsall blind, Hednesford & Norton Canes, along with Rugeley.

Would they bother updating the roller blinds these days, as most of the Walsall fleet appears to be electronic displays?

Another point too, was it ever considered, in case the tender was ever won, of including a full set of Walsall area destinations on the roller blind, so 'Gillity Village' could still be shown for example?

[winston]

Would they bother updating the roller blinds these days, as most of the Walsall fleet appears to be electronic displays?

Another point too, was it ever considered, in case the tender was ever won, of including a full set of Walsall area destinations on the roller blind, so 'Gillity Village' could still be shown for example?

I very doubt that roller blinds would be replaced, they will more than likely use newer vehicles to make maximum impact.

They could choose to add to the existing roller blinds by using inserts if any new tenders/contracts are won, but with the proportion of newer single deckers at Walsall, I would have buses with digital blinds would be used which can be re-programmed in a matter of minutes

[Bob]

Itll mean full size buses then

[winston]

Itll mean full size buses then

Bob,

Other than 6 x B6LE (P-S reg) WA which I doubt you would be very happy with, WA doesn't have any other options at present

[Westy]

Does the new tender include equivalent journeys to the 745 & 845 from Hednesford on Sundays, which arrive in Bloxwich around 830 & 930, or have those journeys been cut?