Arriva tenders lost

[Ck]

I know there's been talk that Arriva where losing some routes in Cannock in September does anybody know what and to who

[Westy]

Evening & Sunday 2 & the Evening & Sunday 33 are so far known about.

Both to National Express Walsall depot.

[Bob]

Im sure theres some others.  Pye greens were one

[Bob]

Wonder when the 62/67/68 and 23 are up for tender

[Westy]

On the subject of the 33, why dont Centro & Staffs come to some arrangement & run the entire route on evenings & Sundays under one operator, or at least extend the Sunday Norton Canes to Brownhills, so connections can be made south instead having to go via Cannock to go south.

The Monday to Saturday evenings run to & from Brownhills, so why cant they fill the gap on Sundays?

[Tony]

On the subject of the 33, why dont Centro & Staffs come to some arrangement & run the entire route on evenings & Sundays under one operator, or at least extend the Sunday Norton Canes to Brownhills, so connections can be made south instead having to go via Cannock to go south.

The Monday to Saturday evenings run to & from Brownhills, so why cant they fill the gap on Sundays?

As far as I know this isn't a plan so don't take this comment that it is going to happen, but NXWM could even combine the 935A tender with the 33 one and give a Sunday & Evening service Birmingham to Rugeley

[Bob]

Would be a decent competition for the train there tony

[Westy]

The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?

Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?

I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?

[Tony]

The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?

Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?

I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?

Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted

[andy]

The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?

Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?

I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?

Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted

And that is how monopolies are formed!

[Bob]

Or lost....in the case of Arriva....

[Tony]

The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?

Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?

I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?

Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted

And that is how monopolies are formed!

Not sure how that is worked out. Any operator is allowed to work out something cheaper and offer it. If and operator looks at a timetable offered on a tender that requires 4 vehicles and says if we run it this way we can do it with three, and so we can bid at 75% of what we would for the original spec do you really think a cash strapped tendering authority should take the higher one

[Bob]

I think its good that nx have bid and won maybe other firms will bid on other routes in the area. Maggie's ( I still hope shes rotting in hell) vision was for competition and variety, ( of course all thats happened is public monopolies are replaced with private and if she didnt know that she mustve been stupid) so itll be good to have some :-D

[andy]

The bus doesnt run to Rugeley on a Sunday does it, only Hednesford?

Do the timings coincide to possibly run those tenders together?

I thought the local authority decided the subsidised timetables, not the operator?

Operators are allowed to offer alternatives to the tender as well. For example when Centro put the 56A out to tender operators will put a tender in on the exact specification of the tender, but NXWM then put in a bid saying that if they run it as the 935A they can do it cheaper than matching the tender spec and that is what was accepted

And that is how monopolies are formed!

Not sure how that is worked out. Any operator is allowed to work out something cheaper and offer it. If and operator looks at a timetable offered on a tender that requires 4 vehicles and says if we run it this way we can do it with three, and so we can bid at 75% of what we would for the original spec do you really think a cash strapped tendering authority should take the higher one

Of course they will accept it as they need to make savings. But the principle of such an arrangement goes against the principle of competition and deregulation and the practice should be investigated by the OFT in my opinion. Large operators are taking advantage of the the fact that local authorities are operating to an austerity programme in that the authorities are now far more obsessed by cost than such things as market share, quality partnerships etc, and expanding  their market share accordingly. Everybody knows that a small independent has no chance offering the savings that NX have done here, as the independent does not have the flexibility of offsetting the cost elsewhere in their operation.

I would equate these arrangements to 'loss leaders' used by the likes of Tesco or Asda, whereby they will sell items at below cost price and subsidise it with the profit from elsewhere in their operation, just to gain territory and market share. That is how you lose corner shops and convenience stores. And it also how you lose small and medium sized independent bus operators.

[j789]

Of course they will accept it as they need to make savings. But the principle of such an arrangement goes against the principle of competition and deregulation and the practice should be investigated by the OFT in my opinion. Large operators are taking advantage of the the fact that local authorities are operating to an austerity programme in that the authorities are now far more obsessed by cost than such things as market share, quality partnerships etc, and expanding  their market share accordingly. Everybody knows that a small independent has no chance offering the savings that NX have done here, as the independent does not have the flexibility of offsetting the cost elsewhere in their operation.

I would equate these arrangements to 'loss leaders' used by the likes of Tesco or Asda, whereby they will sell items at below cost price and subsidise it with the profit from elsewhere in their operation, just to gain territory and market share. That is how you lose corner shops and convenience stores. And it also how you lose small and medium sized independent bus operators.
[/quote]

But this is competition in action. There cant be different rules just because a company is big or small. And how many times have these 'small or medium sized' companies been able to undercut larger companies like Arriva and NXWM by paying their drivers less, not funding CPC training etc etc so they can offer a lower tender price? It seems on here it is fair game to continually criticise the bigger companies when the tendering system gives everyone a chance. If a company can run a service reliably and cheaper to the authority good on them!!!