South Birmingham Consultation 2017

[Kevin]

...
With regards to the the X21 and it's X, this makes interesting reading:

"The X21 is currently on a temporary diversion into town, until the new bus gate is built we are unable to run services into town along Bath Row."

So will the X21 become the 21 at that point? Because it certainly won't be express in any sense of the word.
Also why wasn't this made clear from the off? Rather than having to respond to questions about it.

This is useful information, agreed this could have done with being out there before the changes were implemented
Any gen on where exactly the bus gate will be? Logic would say next to Five Ways station where the route cross outbound but don't really see space for an inbound lane there

[MasterPlan]

The 11A/C hasn't changed either.

Nor the 14 or 60 from what I can tell. I still don't see why they can't add the scrolling display onto this new style.

This is useful information, agreed this could have done with being out there before the changes were implemented
Any gen on where exactly the bus gate will be? Logic would say next to Five Ways station where the route cross outbound but don't really see space for an inbound lane there

It was mentioned on here a while ago that they were considering it. But there'd been no word of it for ages and obviously these changes were made to the 98/X64 so naturally you think it isn't happening anymore. I believe the idea was to go down George Road straight into Bath Row rather than around the Five Ways island.

[2206]

This is useful information, agreed this could have done with being out there before the changes were implemented
Any gen on where exactly the bus gate will be? Logic would say next to Five Ways station where the route cross outbound but don't really see space for an inbound lane there

George Road.

[2206]

It was mentioned on here a while ago that they were considering it. But there'd been no word of it for ages and obviously these changes were made to the 98/X64 so naturally you think it isn't happening anymore. I believe the idea was to go down George Road straight into Bath Row rather than around the Five Ways island.

The road schemes that were proposed are here - https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk/economy/citycentreroadimprovements/

[MasterPlan]

The information about the proposed road schemes is here -
https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk/economy/citycentreroadimprovements/

Yeah that's the old article, the one mentioning the 98/X64.

[Mike K]

So. First ride out on the new network

Re The Vale, yes the X20/22 do use Edgbaston Park Road, at least the last 4 I've seen going past me have, so unless that whole stretch is designated as the "flexible route" I don't see why they couldn't stop there. The X21 will be very busy come September otherwise

Wheeleys Road and Arthur Road stops still show 98/X64 inbound. Frankly those ones should have been priority to at least peel off considering they now have no service

Also Ashill Road and Edgewood Road are far more sensible for large buses than Leach Green Lane, leave the latter for the minibuses on the 19

May I ask, what were loadings on the X22 like? Appreciate it was daytime and school summer hols. The 23 has been disproportionately busy in the peaks this week when I've used it, not helped by groups of 23s and 24s travelling in convoy. Seen quite a few people changing in Harborne to wait for a 27, now they can no longer catch a single bus home.

[Kevin]

May I ask, what were loadings on the X22 like? Appreciate it was daytime and school summer hols. The 23 has been disproportionately busy in the peaks this week when I've used it, not helped by groups of 23s and 24s travelling in convoy. Seen quite a few people changing in Harborne to wait for a 27, now they can no longer catch a single bus home.

Didnt ride one, but seeing them various points through the day:
First off peak buses inbound (pretty much, ~09:50 through The Vale) seemed no busier than normal city bound buses at that time, but already bunched up, saw 3 pass by in maybe 5 minutes
About 15:30 around Stonehouse Hill they seemed more on time and quieter but of course no schools atm so can't tell what'd become of that
By 5pm they seemed bunched again but not overly full, just before rush hour proper though so again can't really guess

[MasterPlan]

https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/links/hospitals/queen-elizabeth-hospital

Fair to say that this page needs updating.

[2206]

https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/links/hospitals/queen-elizabeth-hospital

Fair to say that this page needs updating.

Heartlands needs updating still from the East B'ham changes last year as well.
It still says the 73 stops on Yardley Green Road, whereas it now stops closer to the entrance on Bordesley Green East.
It says the 97A stops on Bordesley Green East, thought the Airport 97A extension was witdrawn last year.
And where it links to associated routes, it links to the 28B, no 28's have used that route number for some time.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/links/hospitals/heartlands-hospital
The map shows the 73 goes to the City Centre and at a 30 minute frequency as well, though it no longer does..


And Solihull which still mentions the 71 and 966.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/links/hospitals/solihull-hospital-heartlands-nhs-trust
The map still shows the 58, 72, and 73 going to the City Centre. It shows the old 70, S1, 71 and 966 routes.
Plus the 37 has been renumbered 4.

[Mike K]

Didnt ride one, but seeing them various points through the day:
First off peak buses inbound (pretty much, ~09:50 through The Vale) seemed no busier than normal city bound buses at that time, but already bunched up, saw 3 pass by in maybe 5 minutes
About 15:30 around Stonehouse Hill they seemed more on time and quieter but of course no schools atm so can't tell what'd become of that
By 5pm they seemed bunched again but not overly full, just before rush hour proper though so again can't really guess

Good to hear that these new direct express services which avoid all the traffic black spots are running so reliably  ;)

[BigDaddyCool]

I had a thought earlier while feeling for the bus drivers who all seem to be getting in the neck.

If they wanted improved journey times in to and from city, why didn't they just take the routes they have modified, double the old frequency and put in an 'X' limited stop inbetween... an example - 98, let's say the frequency was every 10 minutes
Why not have a 98 (renumbered 20) every 20 minutes and a new X20 every 20 minutes, interworking so every 10 but the 20 did the old route, to keep the regulars and shorted distance passengers happy, but the X service becomes very limited stop, Rednal, Longbridge, Northfield, Selly Oak, University and Birmingham - nothing inbetween. VERY basic concept I know, but would be the best of both worlds and keep old passengers happy while hopefully attracting new....
Do this on the old 22, 29, 61, 98, X64.

[2206]

I had a thought earlier while feeling for the bus drivers who all seem to be getting in the neck.

If they wanted improved journey times in to and from city, why didn't they just take the routes they have modified, double the old frequency and put in an 'X' limited stop inbetween... an example - 98, let's say the frequency was every 10 minutes
Why not have a 98 (renumbered 20) every 20 minutes and a new X20 every 20 minutes, interworking so every 10 but the 20 did the old route, to keep the regulars and shorted distance passengers happy, but the X service becomes very limited stop, Rednal, Longbridge, Northfield, Selly Oak, University and Birmingham - nothing inbetween. VERY basic concept I know, but would be the best of both worlds and keep old passengers happy while hopefully attracting new....
Do this on the old 22, 29, 61, 98, X64.

Would that increased frequency be commercially viable though as that would mean even more buses along those routes.
As NX will be trying to make a profit.

[Kevin]

I think a lot of routes are going to suffer capacity wise when the schools go back
A single deck every 20 mins Northfield - Weoley Castle - Harborne is not going to cope, yes it might have time built into the schedule to cope with people cramming on (waited time at Castle Square yesterday 6 minutes) but I really don't think it has enough capacity
The 4 through to Solihull will suffer with single decks on a reduced frequency, which one would assume they'll use as they're branded for it

[Mike K]

I had a thought earlier while feeling for the bus drivers who all seem to be getting in the neck.

If they wanted improved journey times in to and from city, why didn't they just take the routes they have modified, double the old frequency and put in an 'X' limited stop inbetween... an example - 98, let's say the frequency was every 10 minutes
Why not have a 98 (renumbered 20) every 20 minutes and a new X20 every 20 minutes, interworking so every 10 but the 20 did the old route, to keep the regulars and shorted distance passengers happy, but the X service becomes very limited stop, Rednal, Longbridge, Northfield, Selly Oak, University and Birmingham - nothing inbetween. VERY basic concept I know, but would be the best of both worlds and keep old passengers happy while hopefully attracting new....
Do this on the old 22, 29, 61, 98, X64.

In my view the answer to the problem on this side of the city lies in the proposed bus priority measures, not in diverting routes via the QE then non stop into city. I used to drive into town for years when I had free parking and tried every rat run imaginable to avoid Harborne Road. Edgbaston Park Road, Wellington Road etc can all be a nightmare as everyone has the same idea. The bus gate at George Road and the proposed bus lane, which I'm told will run from Kingscote Road / Harborne Road all the way to Five Ways would massively improve rush hour journey times into city. They could have waited until these changes were implemented and seen the effects of them before making such drastic service changes (although these still won't solve the Smallbrook Queensway nightmare).

On the subject of the new routes, and I may be proved completely wrong on this, I wonder about the viability of the X22. Unlike the X20, it doesn't serve any busy commercial centres like Selly Oak, Northfield and Longbridge. I'm sure that the city to QE section will be busy enough and at peak times it will be busy with school kids, especially pupils at KE Five Ways, but that aside, other than the QE / University it's for linking the housing estates and residential areas of Bartley Green to the city. I guess you can change for the 11 at Harborne Park Road but that's about it.

The 23 on the other hand sees large amounts of people getting on and off throughout the section from Lordswood Road, through Harborne and Harborne Academy, Five Ways (a very busy stop) along Broad St and down to Brindley Place and Centenary Square. Lots of busy areas where people need to get to throughout the day and night.

I can see the X22 being quiet outside of rush hour. Time will tell I guess - now I've said this it will probably be increased to every 15 mins in 6 months time...

[MasterPlan]

The bus gate at George Road and the proposed bus lane, which I'm told will run from Kingscote Road / Harborne Road all the way to Five Ways would massively improve rush hour journey times into city. They could have waited until these changes were implemented and seen the effects of them before making such drastic service changes (although these still won't solve the Smallbrook Queensway nightmare).

This is pretty much what I said to them during the consultation. If they're going to go through with these measures why not test them out first and then make changes if necessary? Moving a route from one road to another into the City right now makes no difference whatsoever. It doesn't matter if you have 4 routes, 2 or even 1 along the Harborne Road for example, they're still going through the same traffic. It's about traffic control, not rerouting services that people depend on. Banning cars from Broad Street, creating more bus lanes etc. Smallbrook Queensway is a good example of the point. You need to find ways to eradicate or at least diminish the amount of traffic build up around these areas. Until you do that, no amount of fiddling about with routes will make the slightest bit of difference.