Metro service suspended until further notice

[Solo1]

This was in express &star Saturday  https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2021/11/20/revealed-cracks-first-appeared-on-midland-metro-tram-nearly-two-years-ago/    so why wasn't it sorted out then

[Gareth]

This was in express &star Saturday  https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2021/11/20/revealed-cracks-first-appeared-on-midland-metro-tram-nearly-two-years-ago/    so why wasn't it sorted out then

Because maybe the other trams were all fine then. You can't fix what isn't broken.

[Ginger66]

What has happened to the brand new trams that arrived during the spring/summer surely these are not affected with the same problem and should be pressed into service even if they run a 7 tram service between 6:00 - 9:00 and 16:00 - 18:30 to help keep people moving during rush hour.

[Stu]

What has happened to the brand new trams that arrived during the spring/summer surely these are not affected with the same problem and should be pressed into service even if they run a 7 tram service between 6:00 - 9:00 and 16:00 - 18:30 to help keep people moving during rush hour.

It's a very good question.

My thoughts on this whole matter include the question "are all these trams in imminent danger of falling apart any time soon?".

Safety is obviously a clear concern. And what I don't know is how severe these 'cracks' in the chassis are, or how extensive the remedial works involved are.

If defects have been identified, has any assessment been undertaken as to whether the vehicles affected could be continued in service for a further period of time before they 'significantly worsen'?

In order words, would it be more feasible to continue to operate a service - albeit at a reduced frequency - while a smaller number of trams are repaired, on a rolling basis?

Unless all these trams are in imminent danger of falling apart and putting the safety of passengers at risk, it makes no sense to me to take them all out of service, as only a couple at a time would be able to be repaired.


The other unanswered question is 'what happens with the tram drivers and conductors while all this goes on?'

I suppose they're all being 'furloughed' on full-pay, but then again how many will quit and find other jobs in the meantime? I guess come next year when the trams are back in service, we'll end up with a shortage of tram drivers.

[Steveminor]

From what I understand the cracks are severe & with panels removed can be seen to open & close while the tram is moving on a flat straight bit of track. Orr are strict when it comes to safety.
Ask yourself this, if it was a bus that had severe cracks around the suspension would you be happy to get on it?

As for the new trams, they have had no test running & mileage put on them (certainly not enough to be certified by the ORR. With a defect on all the rest of the fleet I'd think it highly unlikely that the ORR would pass them as safe for service.

I personally don't see the metro in operation anytime soon.

[Stevo]

That's appalling! I'm amazed a modern manufacturer with all the computer aided design available today could produce something that bad. I noticed from the start that the CAFs rode very hard over the crossing in a set of points.

[Wumpty]

That's appalling! I'm amazed a modern manufacturer with all the computer aided design available today could produce something that bad. I noticed from the start that the CAFs rode very hard over the crossing in a set of points.

The CAD aspect isn't relevant - this relates to the steel and the castings used in the actual components. If these have hairline cracks then, depending upon the use, can lie dormant for many years without issue. The investigation will look at all aspects of supply chain and CAF production.

If the steel/casting has a non-visible defects, were the components X-rayed (if part of the quality process) and was this a CAF fault. With castings, the molten metal forms to the shape of the cast reducing the likelihood of cracks increasing if manifested in the process. With steel, like beams/sections used in the chassis, these will fail more easily as the steel is manipulated into shape and into standard shape/lengths. If the structure isn't supported, or the steel grade incorrect, this is where cracks will form and defects will appear much quicker. The cracks they can see are a danger, but it's the defects you can't see that will cause greater concern, hence not pressing the new fleet into a knee-jerk service until full inspection is completed.

[Tony]

I am currently traveling on a CAF product, 195021, hopefully still in one piece as it is in servic :D

[Wumpty]

I am currently traveling on a CAF product, 195021, hopefully still in one piece as it is in servic :D

I'm more concerned that they think you're an ordinary passenger - how very dare they!!!!!

[Stevo]

Look at the Sydney Urbos cars with the same trouble.      They're expecting them off for up to 18 months!

[Sandy Lane]

The politicians seem to have gone to their bunkers to hide on this. About time His Imperial Highness Mr Mayor waved the magic wand and sorted it surely?

The waving of the magic wand seems to be working. The Mayor just said now on the BBC he reckons some will be running by about mid-December ish. Wonder if there will be any test running first?

[Stu]

From what I understand the cracks are severe & with panels removed can be seen to open & close while the tram is moving on a flat straight bit of track. Orr are strict when it comes to safety.
Ask yourself this, if it was a bus that had severe cracks around the suspension would you be happy to get on it?

OK, if the defects are as bad as that then fair enough, like I said I didn't know the extent of this 'fault'.

The media just parrot the press releases put out by TfWM/WMCA and don't go into this kind of detail, and typical of the media that they don't press TfWM/WMCA for more details.

Then again they wouldn't want passengers knowing they have been riding around on potential death-traps for weeks or even months.

The CAD aspect isn't relevant - this relates to the steel and the castings used in the actual components. If these have hairline cracks then, depending upon the use, can lie dormant for many years without issue. The investigation will look at all aspects of supply chain and CAF production.

Cheap Chinese steel, that'll no doubt be it.  ::)

I imagine CAF will have negotiated a spec and a price for these trams, then once agreed, corners will have been cut in order to reduce costs and maximise profit returns.

Any investigation will be a whitewash - CAF have already blamed poor track infrastructure/maintenance, and they'll say that this was not factored into design specifications, or something along those lines. Hopefully this will lead into a full investigation into the design and contracting of the track building and infrastructure, as that went all quiet once the track started to be relaid on Corporation Street.

Look at the Sydney Urbos cars with the same trouble. They're expecting them off for up to 18 months!

Could probably build a whole new fleet in the same time! Makes you wonder how long it will be before someone turns around and states it would be more cost-effective to buy new vehicles.

[Ginger66]

Just seen the video that was posted about the ones in Sydney and it is horrific.  Surely heads have to roll regarding whoever purchased the trams that are deemed unsafe.

According to British trams online CAF was awarded the second contract in October 2019 to provide the additional trams for line 1 and line 2.  If it is true about the cracks appearing during late 2019. 

Can transport for west midlands suspend the order for the remainder of the order of the 29 new CAF trams as eight have only been delivered as the rest of the new fleet are not due till the middle of 2023.

Are the companies in the UK that can build lightweight trams such as Parry's People Movers

[Justin Tyme]

The BBC News website has a new article on "What is wrong with West Midlands trams?" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-59391779

It basically confirms what has appeared in this thread, but not sure it has revealed anything new.

[Wumpty]

Cheap Chinese steel, that'll no doubt be it.  ::)

In fairness, although the Chinese steel *is* cheap (more to do with their communist mass production - they don't want folk standing around doing nowt!), it is of a very good quality - only downside is that they play "cake and eat it" by adding more bromide to the steel, technically making it an alloy, thus drawing rebates from the Chinese and other governments!

I'd personally wager it's a miscalculation on the grade of structural steel required and specified for the components.