West Bromwich Garage

[KayP]

So this would include diamond darts that run on route 16 (every 12 minutes) wouldn't it? As well as blue diamond darts that run on 37/E (every 15/30 minutes), 17 (every 15 minutes) & 97/A (every 12 minutes - joint frequency).

Yes it will include any operator wanting to run a service of a frequency greater than every 30 min. Most of VIPs fleet are OK anyway

[KayP]

Couldn't they use the new enviros on the 529 if it transferred, increase the 935 frequency and give it B7RLEs, then some WA & WN tridents could be cascaded to BC, with presidents from BC and WB going to AG and AG gems going to WB - just a thought :)

Instead of the 8 geminis going from AG to WA it could be 8 presidents from BC for straight swap for tridents this will not add another type of bus at Walsall as it would be a straight swap and WA used to have presidents for the 51, just another option. This i think would not happen but tranfer the 529 back to WA garage and use presidents then the PVR nummber of tridents on the 529 could go to BC as there not needed this would eliminate another type of bus being used at Wolverhampton. There will be spare drivers at wolverhampton from the transferral of the 529 so may be the 39/89 transferring to Wolverhampton and use the mercs that may be withdrawn due to the new arrival of the b7rle's.

[Ash]

Black diamond have been recieving some solo's from preston aswell as a few smaller darts from wessex connect so these may be used on the 16 along with the 51 or 02 wright cadets. From blue diamond who have an older fleet compared to black diamond i see as much more of a problem but again i have saw a few 53 and newer small darts in all over white working for blue diamond so they may getting some more of these to replace the older darts for the 17/37/96

[uniquicity]

Instead of the 8 geminis going from AG to WA it could be 8 presidents from BC for straight swap for tridents this will not add another type of bus at Walsall as it would be a straight swap and WA used to have presidents for the 51, just another option. This i think would not happen but tranfer the 529 back to WA garage and use presidents then the PVR nummber of tridents on the 529 could go to BC as there not needed this would eliminate another type of bus being used at Wolverhampton. There will be spare drivers at wolverhampton from the transferral of the 529 so may be the 39/89 transferring to Wolverhampton and use the mercs that may be withdrawn due to the new arrival of the b7rle's.

Not that this really matters but I moved 8 Geminis to Walsall (4672-79 in my plan) as they already have 4680-86 from the same batch.

[MW]

Nothing wrong with Presidents at YW considering they have operated them in the past and have several non City Centre routes to use them on.

It's not practical because it'd be splitting up Presidents into smaller batches than they currently are. What with them being older vehicles, it's easier to keep them together. My original suggestion of Wolverhampton gaining a large amount of Presidents would be much better. They'd continue their final days on easy local services, and passengers would benefit from better interiors than Tridents already based at WN. It would also be practical for BC to gain further Tridents, in the interest of vehicle maintenance and spares.

Having Presidents on the Outer Circle is another good alternative, however as the flagship route of NXWM, and one of Europe's famous bus routes, it would have to be a temporary measure. The Outer Circle is already due newer vehicles!

Time will tell what happens of course.

[uniquicity]

Would you mind doing your plan Michael? I just can't visualise the moves you want to make.

[Ash]

Do the gemini's/alx400 have similar controls to the presidents meaning not much type training is needed if at all due to them both being volvo. Or are they completely different just that certain garages operate all three types of vehicles or at least 2 and not tridents or enviro 400. (WB,PB and AG). If so it wouldnt take much type training if at all, if the presidents returned to Walsall. This would be a huge task but transfer the tridents at Coventry to BC and replace them with the presidents from BC as the red would be changed to sky blue and vice versa so could be quite easily repainted and training on the vehicles would have to be learnt just as if they went to Wolverhampton.

[KayP]

That's actually a great idea
All BC, and the major of WB, and a few AG presidents > CV
CV tridents > BC
CV geminis > AG
CV ALXs > WB

Do the gemini's/alx400 have similar controls to the presidents meaning not much type training is needed if at all due to them both being volvo. Or are they completely different just that certain garages operate all three types of vehicles or at least 2 and not tridents or enviro 400. (WB,PB and AG). If so it wouldnt take much type training if at all, if the presidents returned to Walsall. This would be a huge task but transfer the tridents at Coventry to BC and replace them with the presidents from BC as the red would be changed to sky blue and vice versa so could be quite easily repainted and training on the vehicles would have to be learnt just as if they went to Wolverhampton.

[Ash]

Leaves the enviro's for the 21 and other routes when spare and the presidents for the rest of the double decker routes, coventry hasn't been mentioned as a possible solution so thought i would mention it, suprised someone thought it may be a good idea was expecting loads of negative comments :(

That's actually a great idea
All BC, and the major of WB, and a few AG presidents > CV
CV tridents > BC
CV geminis > AG
CV ALXs > WB

Do the gemini's/alx400 have similar controls to the presidents meaning not much type training is needed if at all due to them both being volvo. Or are they completely different just that certain garages operate all three types of vehicles or at least 2 and not tridents or enviro 400. (WB,PB and AG). If so it wouldnt take much type training if at all, if the presidents returned to Walsall. This would be a huge task but transfer the tridents at Coventry to BC and replace them with the presidents from BC as the red would be changed to sky blue and vice versa so could be quite easily repainted and training on the vehicles would have to be learnt just as if they went to Wolverhampton.

[winston]

I think that's a complete non starter, as I'm sure Coventry signed up to some quality partnership scheme and therefore doubt they'll be able to transfer out newer buses on mass to be replaced by 12/13 yr old Presidents. I'm sure the good people of Coventry would be really impressed, not....

Basically it comes back to the point that NXWM do not have sufficient Euro 2 & above double deckers, Birmingham may well benefit from newer buses, as a result of the quality partnership scheme being introduced within the City Centre, but this will be at the expense of other areas which will have newer vehicles transferred out to be replaced by 12/13 year old Presidents. The Presidents have been heavily refurbished, but this was back in 2007/2008.

Leaves the enviro's for the 21 and other routes when spare and the presidents for the rest of the double decker routes, coventry hasn't been mentioned as a possible solution so thought i would mention it, suprised someone thought it may be a good idea was expecting loads of negative comments :(

That's actually a great idea
All BC, and the major of WB, and a few AG presidents > CV
CV tridents > BC
CV geminis > AG
CV ALXs > WB

Do the gemini's/alx400 have similar controls to the presidents meaning not much type training is needed if at all due to them both being volvo. Or are they completely different just that certain garages operate all three types of vehicles or at least 2 and not tridents or enviro 400. (WB,PB and AG). If so it wouldnt take much type training if at all, if the presidents returned to Walsall. This would be a huge task but transfer the tridents at Coventry to BC and replace them with the presidents from BC as the red would be changed to sky blue and vice versa so could be quite easily repainted and training on the vehicles would have to be learnt just as if they went to Wolverhampton.

[Ash]

The tridents at coventry quite a few have been retrimmed and i think the 12 year old presidents are in a better condition that most tridents/alx 400 and gemini's and im sure if u asked the public which they thought was the newer bus, cleanest and modernest quite a few would say the presidents, but i agree is a non starter.

[MW]

Would you mind doing your plan Michael? I just can't visualise the moves you want to make.

Right, first of all, the only service WN run into Birmingham is the 126. This requires roughly 25 vehicles at most.

Birmingham Central Presidents:
33 President - BC to WN
33 Trident - WN to BC

That solves BC.

Acocks Green:
All currently allocated Presidents used on route 1 & 11 with Geminis filling in the gaps.
All remaining Geminis allocated to the 5, 31, 73. (72 is in the process of receiving Eclipse2s)
13 Presidents gained from West Bromwich, 13 45** batch Geminis to West Bromwich

West Bromwich:
13 Presidents move to Acocks Green in exchange for 13 Geminis.

To conclude, here's the outcome. Correct me if I've made any mistakes guys.

• WB now operate 4511-4514 & 4517-4534, leaving 14 Presidents to operate service 451, and occasionally one appears on local West Bromwich routes.
• AG now operate 52 Presidents (13 more) for use on the 1 & 11(obviously 52 isn't enough so Geminis are used on top
• AG use 4635 to 4679 to operate services 5, 31, 31A, 73 & 966, and covering insufficient Presidents on the 1/11
• BC exchange 33 Presidents for 33 Tridents at WN (no set allocated routes)

[Stu]

72 is in the process of receiving Eclipse2s

AG haven't used double-decks on the 72 for sometime, and would be impossible I believe because of a low-bridge.

And don't forget they also operate the double-deck 966 (Solihull - Erdington, via Airport), which can use Presidents as this route doesn't serve the city centre.

Otherwise I like your plan, its not far off embellishing what I suggested previously.  ;)

[KayP]

I'm sure they're only 3 years old than the ALXs and gems at coventry + they did get refurbed

I think that's a complete non starter, as I'm sure Coventry signed up to some quality partnership scheme and therefore doubt they'll be able to transfer out newer buses on mass to be replaced by 12/13 yr old Presidents. I'm sure the good people of Coventry would be really impressed, not....

Basically it comes back to the point that NXWM do not have sufficient Euro 2 & above double deckers, Birmingham may well benefit from newer buses, as a result of the quality partnership scheme being introduced within the City Centre, but this will be at the expense of other areas which will have newer vehicles transferred out to be replaced by 12/13 year old Presidents. The Presidents have been heavily refurbished, but this was back in 2007/2008.

Leaves the enviro's for the 21 and other routes when spare and the presidents for the rest of the double decker routes, coventry hasn't been mentioned as a possible solution so thought i would mention it, suprised someone thought it may be a good idea was expecting loads of negative comments :(

That's actually a great idea
All BC, and the major of WB, and a few AG presidents > CV
CV tridents > BC
CV geminis > AG
CV ALXs > WB

Do the gemini's/alx400 have similar controls to the presidents meaning not much type training is needed if at all due to them both being volvo. Or are they completely different just that certain garages operate all three types of vehicles or at least 2 and not tridents or enviro 400. (WB,PB and AG). If so it wouldnt take much type training if at all, if the presidents returned to Walsall. This would be a huge task but transfer the tridents at Coventry to BC and replace them with the presidents from BC as the red would be changed to sky blue and vice versa so could be quite easily repainted and training on the vehicles would have to be learnt just as if they went to Wolverhampton.

[uniquicity]

Michael:

AG have only 10 45** left (4513, 4517, 4518, 4519, 4520, 4521, 4522, 4529, 4530 and 4532).

If you gave 13 Geminis (by including 3 extra 46**) to WB they would have 79 ALX400 and Geminis.

The total PVR of the 74/75/80/82/87/127/128 is 75, leaving 4 spare in this case.

This isn't enough. It would leave spare capacity at 5.33%. They would need 9 spare to be at the usual level of 12%.