West Bromwich Garage

[KayP]

I'm sure they could sacrifice one journey on the 9, or add a journey on the 126, I think the 9, 140 and 141 used to run at a combined frequency of every 3 mins to quinton church

This is irrelevant, but can someone explain to me why the 9 and 126 don't have a joint Monday-Saturday frequency along the Hagley Road, they have similar frequencies and go the same way from Hagley Road - Colmore Row, just seems strange to me.

I think that the 9 has a slightly higher overall frequency, i.e. 7 buses/hour daytime compared to the 126's 6/hour.  I know that the 9 and the 141 often seem in practice to run in convoy!

[Stu]

The 126 is operated by a different garage (Wolverhampton) which is probably why it doesn't 'combine' with the 9, 140 and 141 as you might expect it to.

Having said that, the 9 and 126 are pretty frequent during the day anyway, so no need to really. The Hagley Road is well served anyway, there is also the 120, 127 and 128 which serve parts of it, as well as Bearwood.

[uniquicity]

I'm assuming the 11 is going to converted to Presidents as a short term thing before new deckers are ordered next year.

The basic points are thus:

1) I make it that AG would need 65 Presidents (57 plus 8 spare) if they used them solely on the 1, 11 and 966. They currently have 39. Obviously they need 26 from somewhere.
2) WB needs 18 more Geminis to make all their Birmingham decker services comply with the new regulations.
3) BC Needs to lose its 31 Presidents.

The following would satisfy this:

18 Presidents WB > AG
18 Geminis AG > WB

(This leaves 11 Presidents at WB for the 451)

8 Presidents BC > AG
8 Geminis AG > WA
8 Tridents WA > BC

23 Presidents BC > WN/YW
23 Tridents WN/YW > BC

(Think WN would be better as they only have one City Centre route they could stray onto).

Any thoughts?

[Ash]

Instead of the 8 geminis going from AG to WA it could be 8 presidents from BC for straight swap for tridents this will not add another type of bus at Walsall as it would be a straight swap and WA used to have presidents for the 51, just another option. This i think would not happen but tranfer the 529 back to WA garage and use presidents then the PVR nummber of tridents on the 529 could go to BC as there not needed this would eliminate another type of bus being used at Wolverhampton. There will be spare drivers at wolverhampton from the transferral of the 529 so may be the 39/89 transferring to Wolverhampton and use the mercs that may be withdrawn due to the new arrival of the b7rle's.

[winston]

Pete, like your thinking...

Another scenario may be as follows, the remaining 31 x Volvo B7RLE single deckers which are currently unallocated, but I believe it's been suggested that they may be going to BC. Could these be used as an interim measure to convert a couple of BC's routes temporarily to single deckers thus releasing the 31 x Presidents to AG, with onward Gemini cascades to WB?

I'm assuming the 11 is going to converted to Presidents as a short term thing before new deckers are ordered next year.

The basic points are thus:

1) I make it that AG would need 65 Presidents (57 plus 8 spare) if they used them solely on the 1, 11 and 966. They currently have 39. Obviously they need 26 from somewhere.
2) WB needs 18 more Geminis to make all their Birmingham decker services comply with the new regulations.
3) BC Needs to lose its 31 Presidents.

The following would satisfy this:

18 Presidents WB > AG
18 Geminis AG > WB

(This leaves 11 Presidents at WB for the 451)

8 Presidents BC > AG
8 Geminis AG > WA
8 Tridents WA > BC

23 Presidents BC > WN/YW
23 Tridents WN/YW > BC

(Think WN would be better as they only have one City Centre route they could stray onto).

Any thoughts?

[SMK]

Instead of the 8 geminis going from AG to WA it could be 8 presidents from BC for straight swap for tridents this will not add another type of bus at Walsall as it would be a straight swap and WA used to have presidents for the 51, just another option.

Though seeing as WA already operate Geminis and haven't operated Presidents for some years, the three way swap would be less hassle due to not having to type-train the Walsall drivers on the Presidents.

[MW]

Honestly, I hope none of this happens. The Presidents at AG are getting too much now. They're bloody everywhere! On the 1, 31, 37, 966, and since I work in Solihull, they're all I see, along with Omnishi*s. See the few Tridents & Geminis here and there, but mainly Presidents & Scanias now.

I can't see the 11 being all President operated anyway. I see it partially operated by Presidents yes, but not the whole thing. I doubt AG will lose a large amount of Geminis, but that's possibly wishful thinking? I reckon we'll lose the 45** batch soon, to WB, but I hope not.

I read somewhere, someone suggesting YW for Presidents. Just to make a point, that would be absolutely ridiculous!

[Stu]

1) I make it that AG would need 65 Presidents (57 plus 8 spare) if they used them solely on the 1, 11 and 966. They currently have 39. Obviously they need 26 from somewhere.

I believe that from 1st April the frequency of the 11 is being reduced slightly, this may mean not as many buses being required for this route.

[winston]

Basically, the long & short of it is NXWM are short of newer (Min Euro 2) double deckers, they desperately need to order some further new one's or consider acquiring some second hand examples as an interim measure. Even the 21 x Hybrid double deckers NX have been awarded Green Bus funding for will not be here until Spring 2013

Honestly, I hope none of this happens. The Presidents at AG are getting too much now. They're bloody everywhere! On the 1, 31, 37, 966, and since I work in Solihull, they're all I see, along with Omnishi*s. See the few Tridents & Geminis here and there, but mainly Presidents & Scanias now.

I can't see the 11 being all President operated anyway. I see it partially operated by Presidents yes, but not the whole thing. I doubt AG will lose a large amount of Geminis, but that's possibly wishful thinking? I reckon we'll lose the 45** batch soon, to WB, but I hope not.

I read somewhere, someone suggesting YW for Presidents. Just to make a point, that would be absolutely ridiculous!

[uniquicity]

What route(s) at BC could be converted to single deck for a while? 97, seeing as that has had SD recently?

The reasons I don't see this happening - unhappy customers due to the reduced capacity, and you will then also be short of SD to convert the non compliant routes (17, 66, 89 etc).

Nothing wrong with Presidents at YW considering they have operated them in the past and have several non City Centre routes to use them on.

[Tony]

Basically, the long & short of it is NXWM are short of newer (Min Euro 2) double deckers, they desperately need to order some further new one's or consider acquiring some second hand examples as an interim measure. Even the 21 x Hybrid double deckers NX have been awarded Green Bus funding for will not be here until Spring 2013

They are not short of Euro 2 deckers, only 120 of the current fleet don't meet that spec, and there are well over 120 double deck duties that don't come into Birmingham City Centre. AG garage alone had about 60.

Although I am not party to it, I do know an allocatioon plan is already drawn up for July to make sure all vehicles in the City Centre do meet Euro2

[Stu]

It would be funny if someone at NXWM was actually reading through our suggestions, most of which make sense!

Tony is right, there are plenty of double-decks in the fleet to go round, look at Wolverhampton. They have plenty of Tridents, yet only operate one route into Birmingham.

And with the money and time invested in repairing and repainting the Presidents, they're not going away for withdrawal any time soon. More likely they'll get transferred to another garage that may have operated them in the past (Walsall or Yardley Wood?), introduced at a garage that hasn't used them before (Wolverhampton), or kept at Acocks Green for the Outer Circle.

At the moment, NXWM are rightly concentrating on withdrawing the older battered single-decks that are really showing their age (funny how double-decks seem to last much longer!) and definitely aren't suitable for use in the city centre.

My only concern, and as this topic may have gone off at a tangent already might justify a new one, is what will happen to the 636 and its allocation of B6LEs.

[Ash]

Do the 'W' reg darts at WB meet the emmission requirements if so may be using them again for the 636 may be a short term solution i know not ideal due to capacity issues but would be short term only.

[Stu]

They're older than the Presidents, so probably not.

[winston]

If NXWM need to transfer newer double deckers within the fleet, obviously they are still short of Min Euro 2 double deckers within the Birmingham depots. It's not an improvement to transfer say 04/54 plate Tridents from the likes of WN to be replaced with 12/13 yr old Presidents, yes they have been extensively refurbished but the chassis & body structure has seen 12/13 years of service already, and ultimately they are early low floor double deckers. NXWM are stuck with many elderly early low floor single deckers that date from 1996-1999, however few new double deckers were purchased in 2005/2006/2008/2009 & 2010; many went to Travel London instead. Ultimately in a couple of years time they will have a similar situation with double deckers as they are currently experiencing with single deckers, where large quantities will need replacing altogether i.e. 99 x V/W-reg Presidents, 100 x Y-reg Tridents, 80 x 51/02 reg Volvo B7TL/ALX400 etc 

I think it's been suggested that some of the 30 x Midi's on order from autumn 2012 delivery may be for the 636 & possibly the 222, something will need to replace the B6's at BC for a few months though whilst the new buses are being built

It would be funny if someone at NXWM was actually reading through our suggestions, most of which make sense!

Tony is right, there are plenty of double-decks in the fleet to go round, look at Wolverhampton. They have plenty of Tridents, yet only operate one route into Birmingham.

And with the money and time invested in repairing and repainting the Presidents, they're not going away for withdrawal any time soon. More likely they'll get transferred to another garage that may have operated them in the past (Walsall or Yardley Wood?), introduced at a garage that hasn't used them before (Wolverhampton), or kept at Acocks Green for the Outer Circle.

At the moment, NXWM are rightly concentrating on withdrawing the older battered single-decks that are really showing their age (funny how double-decks seem to last much longer!) and definitely aren't suitable for use in the city centre.

My only concern, and as this topic may have gone off at a tangent already might justify a new one, is what will happen to the 636 and its allocation of B6LEs.