Revenue Inspectors

[Liberator9]

Exactly - remember that the vast majority of passengers (under 16 or over) are law abiding people who pay up. There's always idiots who don't pay and cause a problem, at the expense of others, but they aren't the majority, at least in my experience.

[Michael Bevan]

Was on 4822 on 7/09 earlier and I was surprised to find some on Witton Rd near Moor Lane. However they didn't hail us. A fight was going on upstairs. It stopped for a minute after someone shouted "Inspector". However since we went past, fight which was going on upstairs was allowed to continue.

[karl724223]

And if the CCTV was requested I wonder what would be seen

[frostjay974]

Revenue came on one of the buses that I was on today in the city centre doing their usual passes/tickets checks and one of the passengers onboard had apparently used contactless with a debit card to pay to which one of the inspectors asked if they could see the last 4 digits of their card in order to prove this. This question clearly did not go down too well with the passenger as they started to confront the inspector asking why they needed to show them their personal card details. After several refusals to show the numbers the inspector then asked if they could only see the last 3 digits where the passenger refused again. The inspector lastly asked for the last 2 digits of the card number and just like the previous few attempts the inspector was unsuccessful in getting any information out of the passenger. Eventually, the inspector had escorted the passenger outside where they appeared to be having some form of a verbal altercation for a couple of minutes and then the passenger returned back on to the bus and it looked as if they had won as they were still ranting on about the question that they were asked and how they are not giving their card details to anyone. The real question is though how is the inspector supposed to identify whether or not the card was used solely based on the last 2 digits of the number? and does this always usually happen whenever an inspection of such is done on a passenger who is paying with contactless? I thought they just had to show them the card and that's it.

[karl724223]

Revenue came on one of the buses that I was on today in the city centre doing their usual passes/tickets checks and one of the passengers onboard had apparently used contactless with a debit card to pay to which one of the inspectors asked if they could see the last 4 digits of their card in order to prove this. This question clearly did not go down too well with the passenger as they started to confront the inspector asking why they needed to show them their personal card details. After several refusals to show the numbers the inspector then asked if they could only see the last 3 digits where the passenger refused again. The inspector lastly asked for the last 2 digits of the card number and just like the previous few attempts the inspector was unsuccessful in getting any information out of the passenger. Eventually, the inspector had escorted the passenger outside where they appeared to be having some form of a verbal altercation for a couple of minutes and then the passenger returned back on to the bus and it looked as if they had won as they were still ranting on about the question that they were asked and how they are not giving their card details to anyone. The real question is though how is the inspector supposed to identify whether or not the card was used solely based on the last 2 digits of the number? and does this always usually happen whenever an inspection of such is done on a passenger who is paying with contactless? I thought they just had to show them the card and that's it.

They print a ticket of the ticket machine which tell them the last four numbers of any contact card used 

[jasmine]

Revenue came on one of the buses that I was on today in the city centre doing their usual passes/tickets checks and one of the passengers onboard had apparently used contactless with a debit card to pay to which one of the inspectors asked if they could see the last 4 digits of their card in order to prove this. This question clearly did not go down too well with the passenger as they started to confront the inspector asking why they needed to show them their personal card details. After several refusals to show the numbers the inspector then asked if they could only see the last 3 digits where the passenger refused again. The inspector lastly asked for the last 2 digits of the card number and just like the previous few attempts the inspector was unsuccessful in getting any information out of the passenger. Eventually, the inspector had escorted the passenger outside where they appeared to be having some form of a verbal altercation for a couple of minutes and then the passenger returned back on to the bus and it looked as if they had won as they were still ranting on about the question that they were asked and how they are not giving their card details to anyone. The real question is though how is the inspector supposed to identify whether or not the card was used solely based on the last 2 digits of the number? and does this always usually happen whenever an inspection of such is done on a passenger who is paying with contactless? I thought they just had to show them the card and that's it.

Not to mention, if you use your card on Apple/Google/Samsung pay, that specific information is obfuscated to the seller. As in, Apple/Google/Samsung pay create a new card number that's to be shared with the seller in a measure to protect your real card number.

https://www.apple.com/uk/apple-pay/
https://pay.google.com/intl/en_uk/about/learn/
https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS10002586/

[Mike K]

Use of the last 4 digits is fairly standard industry practice and is permitted under Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard*. You'll often see the last 4 digits of your card printed on a paper receipt. 

So NX are perfectly within their rights to check this as part of revenue inspection.
With contactless it's the only realistic way they can check.

* I know this is boring, but it's part of my job 

[Stu]

Revenue came on one of the buses that I was on today in the city centre doing their usual passes/tickets checks and one of the passengers onboard had apparently used contactless with a debit card to pay to which one of the inspectors asked if they could see the last 4 digits of their card in order to prove this. This question clearly did not go down too well with the passenger as they started to confront the inspector asking why they needed to show them their personal card details. After several refusals to show the numbers the inspector then asked if they could only see the last 3 digits where the passenger refused again. The inspector lastly asked for the last 2 digits of the card number and just like the previous few attempts the inspector was unsuccessful in getting any information out of the passenger. Eventually, the inspector had escorted the passenger outside where they appeared to be having some form of a verbal altercation for a couple of minutes and then the passenger returned back on to the bus and it looked as if they had won as they were still ranting on about the question that they were asked and how they are not giving their card details to anyone. The real question is though how is the inspector supposed to identify whether or not the card was used solely based on the last 2 digits of the number? and does this always usually happen whenever an inspection of such is done on a passenger who is paying with contactless? I thought they just had to show them the card and that's it.

Revenue inspectors only need to see the last four digits of the card number to verify that card has been used on that bus journey.

https://faq.nxbus.co.uk/s/article/How-will-a-bus-inspector-know-that-I-have-paid?language=en_US

How will a bus inspector know that I have paid?



    Bus Inspectors will be given a list of Tap & Cap customers from the driver.

    If you have used a credit/debit card:
    You will need to provide the inspector with the last 4 digits of the card number.

I've been on board buses which have had a visit from the inspectors, and they either ask that person to read out the last four digits to them, or they'll ask to see the card themselves. You can of course obscure the rest of the card number, the inspector just needs to see the last four digits.

I may be wrong, but I think the list that gets printed off only shows the last four digits of the cards that have been used on that particular bus journey anyway.

It sounds to me like that person you describe may have just been a bit overly paranoid - at the end of the day what is anyone going to do with the last four digits of your card number anyway? Not like they're going to steal your card details and go on an Amazon shopping spree!

All the inspector wants to ensure is that you have a right to be on that bus. If you don't have a valid paper ticket or Swift card, and you paid with 'tap and go' the only way to 'prove' your validity is to confirm your card has been used on that bus. Simple as that.

Sadly from observable experiences, I find that those people who make the most noise or fuss whenever confronted or challenged by inspectors or drivers are usually 'in the wrong'.

[frostjay974]

It sounds to me like that person you describe may have just been a bit overly paranoid

Funny enough they did say that they work and have 'expertise' in the cyber security field!

[Mike K]

Funny enough they did say that they work and have 'expertise' in the cyber security field!

Then they're talking out of their arse. As I posted above, the industry technical security standard on this permits the electronic storage of the last 4 digits of customer payment cards. There's no way your card can be compromised based on the last 4 digits alone.

[Justin Tyme]

The passenger's actions do seem well over the top.

I thought I'd look for the conditions of carriage on the NX website, and found here that:-

"You must let an authorised member of staff or a police officer inspect your contactless payment card or device at any time during your journey if asked to do so. You may be asked to touch your card or device on their portable card reader as part of their inspection or to state the last 4 digits of the card number for a physical card or the 'Device Account Number' for Apple Pay or 'Virtual Account Number' for Android Pay, if requested to do so."

I think the first sentence is clear enough!

[2206]

The opassenger's actions do seem well over the top.

Normally people kicking up a fuss with revenue inspectors might not have actually paid in the first place I would expect.

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

I did wonder how it worked with Tap and Go as I use my card to pay, sometimes the driver prints a ticket other times they don't, I often wondered If I had a single ticket for my first bus of the day would they still see I had a ticket, at least now I know they ask to see my card. 

[frostjay974]

Going a bit off topic here but something that I find quite bizarre is the amount of people who I've seen who are objectively not over the age of 18 who are using tap and cap with a bank card to pay when it takes hardly any effort for them to just ask the driver to print them a child daysaver or single ticket saving them from having to pay double when they don't have to.

[Stu]

I did wonder how it worked with Tap and Go as I use my card to pay, sometimes the driver prints a ticket other times they don't,

With Tap And Go, no ticket is issued.