Birmingham City Centre changes

[Justin Tyme]

I've been looking at NXWM's news item mentioning the Birmingham City Centre bus stop changes from 22 July - http://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/news/birmingham-city-centre-changes.  Among the points it makes are: -

"The new stops will also help buses run on time. At present traffic rules mean we must leave as soon as the bus is loaded, making it hard to make up time if we are delayed on the way into town. In the new arrangements, buses will be able to wait (slightly) until the departure time, helping make services more reliable – and there will often be a bus waiting when you arrive at your stop."

Up to now I've been sceptical about the Connected City idea, as it seemed to simply be a way of making the best of a bad job (i.e. buses having to get out of the central area).  But if some recovery time will be possible in town, and there are enough bus stops for the services using them, this just might be a good idea.  It will be the end of a tradition going back to Birmingham City Transport days, but that's fine by me if it works.

What does anyone else think?

[Tony]

It is a much better idea. Every stop will have a 'time slot' and it will work the same as Centro's Bus Station's where services cannot be scheduled within 5 minutes of an existing departure from that stop. It will also mean you can have up to 5 minutes layover in the city so the bus is more likely to be able to depart on time.

One example where this will have an effect on existing services is the 94/55 which will be on The Priory Queensway because NXWM's 55 (& new 55A) service will have a frequency  of every 8 minutes and the 94 will also be increased to every 8 minutes there will be no room for Claribels' services on the same stop, so they will get their own stop just in front (which will be shared with NXWMs 90 & 72)

[PM]

That seems a bit unfair on Claribel's-they should go from the same stop if its the same route otherwise no one will catch them

[winston]

That could well be why NXWM have increased the frequency of their 94 to push Claribels off using the same stop

[Tony]

It is only the stop in front they will be using, but the whole point is to stop different operators trying to get on the same stop at the same time. Why should an operator be able to register a bus 1 minute in front of an existing operator's 8 minute frequency, get 7 minutes on the stop and make the existing operator have to arrive and depart on the same minute?

This way both operators are allowed to have 5 minutes on their stop to make sure of a correct departure time.

[PM]

That could well be why NXWM have increased the frequency of their 94 to push Claribels off using the same stop

yep! In a nutshell :))

[PM]

Similarly, why should an established high quality operator be bullied off the 94 onto another stand just so NXWM are able to soak up all the 94 passengers as they will inevitably go to the NXWM 94 only stop and the Claribels 94s will slip by unnoticed. I dont see why theyre bothering with all this change-it is costly and pointless-things work fine as they are and more change just means more money more confusion and more loss in passenger numbers. Why not spend the money developing talking bus systems, getting operators together to try to co-ordinate things more effectively instead of just banishing some of the smaller operators from the city centre just because their buses dont allow prams etc. Its still 4 years before this is the law-why is centro a acting early and b whilst seeking to improve public transport is actually ensuring through persecution of the smaller operators that there will be higher frequencies higher fares etc. I think Centro only regard one company as useful to it and that is NXWM. Other than that, they dislike smaller operators and on street competition where companies such as diamond make money so as they can provide centro with good value for money socially acceptable bus services. These are quite frankly crap-no one uses them such as the 38 for instance think about northfield over the years and its socially acceptable services the 614, 634, 635, 38, 86 the list goes on. Lets not kid ourselves especially with ring and ride they are not necessary. Axe these routes and spend the money on developing core corridors where there is potential for growth as opposed to wasting money on buses used by 2 or 3 people that go all around the houses to no main objective. And as for network reviews dont get me started. Their ideas are ludicrous and are disliked by passengers. they cause confusion and drive people off the buses. So, to sum up, the PTEs or ITAs or PTAs or whatever they choose to call themselves/spend taxpayers' money rebranding themselves-havent got a clue. They should leave it to the private sector and look at East Kent where there have been increases in passenger numbers yet slumps in the PTE areas. Why not instead of network reviews new bus stations tramways etc spend the money on getting people back on buses by subsiding fares and advertising properly the benefits of transport. Although I am opposed to quality contracts on grounds of cost and lack of competition, maybe operators would do well-here Im looking at Claribels and Diamond at the expense of NXWM.

[4006]

It is only the stop in front they will be using, but the whole point is to stop different operators trying to get on the same stop at the same time. Why should an operator be able to register a bus 1 minute in front of an existing operator's 8 minute frequency, get 7 minutes on the stop and make the existing operator have to arrive and depart on the same minute?

This way both operators are allowed to have 5 minutes on their stop to make sure of a correct departure time.

I know we all live in a modern world where competition is fair but its nonesence in reality. Not all, but some operators as already mentioned sharing the same service leads to squabbling over stops/stands in addition to this some are deliberately awkward to compromise one anothers service and even in the case of T**vel Ex****s in particular on service 1* (naming no firm or route) in Wolv*s (or location) on occasions resort to dangerous driving which is bang out of order. It also seams that big firms such as NXWM get into all sorts of bother if services are not running as normal as they should or could be yet some of the privatears seam to be able to 'run as they please' and get away with murder!
I think it would be easier if routes were not shared and they had their own routes, their own stands and their own stops or better still one firm to run the whole country 'TESCO TRAVEL'  ;D

[PM]

Exactly thats exactly true I was just about to mention that Id fogotten about policing/cleaning etc. Tho I thought everyone wud have had enuf hearing what I have to say. xD. Tho that it true what you say about cars it would be naive for operators to take that attitude tho I agree that now is a good time to be in the bus industry and tomorrow will be even better......

[PM]

Lol tho lets not put claribels in the same league as Travel Expr-ss not mentioning any names as Claribels are high quality and offer good service with newer buses than NXWM.

[PM]

I think it is great that routes are shared partly it adds interest to the bus enthusiast. Moreover, it allows for competion in terms of fares and vehicles and surely this has to be in everyones interests. I am not advocating UK North or Preston style bus wars. Tho I find the Uk north case interesting-google it it is reallly interesting especially as the results were so drastic.

[4006]

Exactly thats exactly true I was just about to mention that Id fogotten about policing/cleaning etc. Tho I thought everyone wud have had enuf hearing what I have to say. xD. Tho that it true what you say about cars it would be naive for operators to take that attitude tho I agree that now is a good time to be in the bus industry and tomorrow will be even better......

They probably had enough of me to. We probably both get kicked off before they change the first stand  :o

[PM]

Haha. A bus war not betwen companies but between two bus enthusiasts tho at least it doesnt involve calling each other idiots like certain conversations xD

[Tony]

Similarly, why should an established high quality operator be bullied off the 94 onto another stand just so NXWM are able to soak up all the 94 passengers as they will inevitably go to the NXWM 94 only stop and the Claribels 94s will slip by unnoticed. I dont see why theyre bothering with all this change-it is costly and pointless-things work fine as they are

If you think things work fine as they are you haven't looked closely. Try watching what actually happens in Lower Bull Street. Quite often vehicles from either operator cannot get onto the stop because the other one is there. Claribels, because they like sitting on the stop for longer than the minute allowed. NXWM because some drivers think it is a good idea to copy and do exactly the same, and sometimes because there is a large queue taking a long time to load.

Despite your views on Claribels being a quality operator perhaps you should watch their timekeeping with drivers deliberately arriving up to 8 minutes early in City or deliberately leaving late after arriving on time.

The new system will work exactly the same as the 301/302 works in Walsall Bus Station. People will walk up to which ever vehicle is there first. Remember both companies will probably be scheduling in a layover in the city so chances are when things are running normally there will be on of a NXWM 55, 94 or Claribels 55 or 94 there for them to get on.

when both companies are in Bull Street together at the moment people will walk the bus length to whichever one they fancy using, so I am sure they won't be put off walking a bus length if the other company's bus pulls in while they are stood at the other stop

All the new rules are actually being enforced by the TC, not by Centro or BCC, so any breaches can result in large fines of licence reductions/cancellations

[Tony]

Exactly thats exactly true I was just about to mention that Id fogotten about policing/cleaning etc. Tho I thought everyone wud have had enuf hearing what I have to say. xD. Tho that it true what you say about cars it would be naive for operators to take that attitude tho I agree that now is a good time to be in the bus industry and tomorrow will be even better......

NXWM are just about to start having a private company cleaning their buses while they are in service. (people getting on and removing the rubbish collecting on them throughout the day)

I wonder if any of the competitors will follow that idea