Social Travel

[PM]

It runs basically the opposite way to the 4H but it takes in more of the estates rather than the main roads.

Like mentioned green bus missed out the peak times which were very popular.

You could argue the 004 was withdrawn by Diamond but Hansons were able to make ago of it very successfully when they revived it.

Anyway just a suggestion

Taken Hansons 3, virtually 4 years to build it up into anything half decent though, even then loadings can look varied.

[Tony]

Has anyone else noticed that the small operators that tend to get respect and survive a long time, or get their owners a nice retirement lump sum by selling out while profitable are those that persist with a route, have an identity and try to offer something different?

Claribels - first route they registered was the 94 still on there 25 years later, initially ran with conductors, then allowed smoking when banned on TWM
Hansons - First registered local Stourbridge routes and still there 25 years later
North Birmingham - First registered on the 104X and still there when sold on as a going concern, offered Expressway services when TWM didn't
Decourcey - Still running services started 20 years ago

Now what happens to all those companies that flit about between toutes and cannot make their mind up?

[Stu]

Good points Tony, however I would like to add the following, if only to close this discussion and get the topic back to Social Travel related matters:

It seems to me that smaller operators are "damned if they do, damned if they don't".

NX are often criticised by some for having a virtual monopoly in the West Midlands, and there have been calls for them to be broken up (or even shutdown) in order to give other operators a chance, as there is seemingly no competition.

Then weirdly, if an operator starts operating on an NX route 'in competition', the other operator gets slammed for trying to 'cream off' passengers from the NX route in question. In my mind that is exactly how 'competition' is supposed to work!

[Tony]

Good points Tony, however I would like to add the following, if only to close this discussion and get the topic back to Social Travel related matters:

It seems to me that smaller operators are "damned if they do, damned if they don't".

NX are often criticised by some for having a virtual monopoly in the West Midlands, and there have been calls for them to be broken up (or even shutdown) in order to give other operators a chance, as there is seemingly no competition.

Then weirdly, if an operator starts operating on an NX route 'in competition', the other operator gets slammed for trying to 'cream off' passengers from the NX route in question. In my mind that is exactly how 'competition' is supposed to work!

Central Buses go about it the correct way as far as I am concerned, although they obviously try to attract passengers off an existing service, they also offer something different as well as shown by their expre55 to see how competition should be done

[PM]

Central Buses go about it the correct way as far as I am concerned, although they obviously try to attract passengers off an existing service, they also offer something different as well as shown by their expre55 to see how competition should be done

Precisely, quality competition that grows a market, by forcing existing operator to up standards so passengers benefit all round and actually grows a market.

I guess though to get to the stage of offering that level of competition, you have to start out somehow, Ludlows and BCC's Nationals could look shabby before both went on to buy new and newer buses, Claribels were running old coaches at the start before they went for Excels and DAFs, Hansons had some pretty old buses as well, it's unlikely an operator could get the finance to start out with a bang at the beginning.

What all those operators did always have was a clear fleetname and a version of a livery, even if BCC's was variations and different versions of red.

Johnsons I'd add to that list, Birmingham Motor Traction and Zaks (in particular!) were good quality too, Pete's Travel stuck to core routes and had a livery and fleetname although I appreciate aspects of the operation seemed to lack quality at times.

[countryliner]

There seems to be a lot of people on this forum who dislike the small independent bus operators and like to criticise them. Social Travel are a very good company - i have used their services quite a few times whilst i am in the West Midlands - i am always impressed and happy with their bus service. I can fully understand why Social Travel travel are going to come off the routes 74 / 74A / S74 services and go back on to the route 11C service. I am sure that @Steveminor and everyone at Social Travel know what they are doing. It can take a while for a bus operator to find the right route for them and they have to try out different routes to see if they will work and be successful. Their sister companies Discount Travel (966) and Sunny Travel (71E) seem to be doing well on their routes. Also the 11C was only stopped to provide a service on the routes 74 / 74A / S74 services - not because it was unsuccesful. So i think that Social Travel might end up being very successful on the route 11C service.

[Bryan]

There seems to be a lot of people on this forum who dislike the small independent bus operators and like to criticise them. Social Travel are a very good company - i have used their services quite a few times whilst i am in the West Midlands - i am always impressed and happy with their bus service. I can fully understand why Social Travel travel are going to come off the routes 74 / 74A / S74 services and go back on to the route 11C service. I am sure that @Steveminor and everyone at Social Travel know what they are doing. It can take a while for a bus operator to find the right route for them and they have to try out different routes to see if they will work and be successful. Their sister companies Discount Travel (966) and Sunny Travel (71E) seem to be doing well on their routes. Also the 11C was only stopped to provide a service on the routes 74 / 74A / S74 services - not because it was unsuccesful. So i think that Social Travel might end up being very successful on the route 11C service.

Oh no, here we go again!

There are not a lot of people on the forum who dislike small independent bus operators, if anything like myself they probably prefer them for the variety of vehicles. Also Tony, who works for NXWM, provided several positive comments on several small independents who have made a success in the West Midlands.

To quote you 'Social Travel are a very good company'. If they are so good and they had loyal customers on the 11C, imagine how the passengers felt when the company ceased working on the route, only to reappear a again a few months later. That would surely not encourage them to go back to Social Travel, especially as mentioned many times before they do no supply a return service. They also did not give the 74 group of routes even a slight chance of success.

Please give us an idea of what journeys you have done on Social Travel, because I'm certain many of us are dying to know! Then we may all understand the basis of your 'Social Travel are a very good company' statement.

[Steveminor]

I tell you what I'll keep the 74 on upset all my staff & lose them get in trouble with the tc office lose the o licence & close social travel down. Or upset people on here & go back onto a route that was successful & kept the staff happy.

What really would you do.

[Tony]

I tell you what I'll keep the 74 on upset all my staff & lose them get in trouble with the tc office lose the o licence & close social travel down. Or upset people on here & go back onto a route that was successful & kept the staff happy.

What really would you do.

Is that an admission that you are not running the 74 correctly, saying you will get in trouble with the TC?

Because your buses will be just as late on the 11, the same as NXWM's are regularly. TC's accept that as long as your registration allows enough time for a normal day, running late through reasons beyond your control are acceptable

[Trident 4194]

I tell you what I'll keep the 74 on upset all my staff & lose them get in trouble with the tc office lose the o licence & close social travel down. Or upset people on here & go back onto a route that was successful & kept the staff happy.

What really would you do.

What are the punishments with the tc? The 11C can't have been that successful with the high pvr of nxwm and you only run one way? Why do the staff prefer 11C to 74? I don't think any of these routes are ideal.

[2206]

What are the punishments with the tc? The 11C can't have been that successful with the high pvr of nxwm and you only run one way? Why do the staff prefer 11C to 74? I don't think any of these routes are ideal.

Why couldn't it have been successfull if quite a few passengers get the first bus that comes and the first bus is Social Travel they will get on Social Travel? It was already mentioned they prefer the 11C because of the roadworks in Stafford.

Where it comes from is arriva have decide to run shuttle service from stafford to the university leaving the 74 to only run a short route this is not a legal registration as the registration calls for a service to run from cannock to the university not to sit a bus at the college wait for social travel to turn up the run off & take the passengers whilst the main bus sits in gaol square collecting passengers waiting for social travel to turn up. The excuse is because of traffic! Well that is still not legal but we're getting it in the neck for NOT running an extra illegal bus. Well we don't have anymore o discs but this has held no water. One rule for one one rule for arriva. Add that to the fact that despite evidence to the tc arriva have continuously run off time & extra buses unchallenged whilst we get our ear bent for running 11 mins late a few times. Arriva have changed times with 2 weeks notice ( supposed to be a minimum of 3 weeks) whilst even with a letter of support from the council we can't start a desperately required service with less than 56 days notice. Plus the cancellation document was only posted yesterday afternoon and yet it's already been accepted this morning. Something smells rotten & I want no part of that.
Anyway I also have to consider my drivers who are unhappy at arriving back at the depot more than 2 hours late because of the rad ford bank traffic & I can't give them any assurances until after September. Well it's not one thing not two things but several things. I have to look after the best interests of the company & staff under my care. Not enthusiasts that may or may not want social to run a specific service.

Yes it's been a hard decision to make & has been made very quickly but let me ask you all, if you had a knife in your hand would you get it removed straight away or would you leave it there for a while incase the pain went away & it eventually got better.

[winston]

I tell you what I'll keep the 74 on upset all my staff & lose them get in trouble with the tc office lose the o licence & close social travel down. Or upset people on here & go back onto a route that was successful & kept the staff happy.

What really would you do.

I'd have stuck with the 11C which generated more predictable revenues and developed the 74 / 74A on top, if license disc's & finances allowed, then look to provide an 11A in the future

What are the punishments with the tc? The 11C can't have been that successful with the high pvr of nxwm and you only run one way? Why do the staff prefer 11C to 74? I don't think any of these routes are ideal.

Steve already explained why staff don't like the 74 - largely due to the depot being in Smethwick & the length of time it takes to get to/from Stafford

[2206]

Have Social Travel looked at operating the 11A in the future?

[barry619]

I tell you what I'll keep the 74 on upset all my staff & lose them get in trouble with the tc office lose the o licence & close social travel down. Or upset people on here & go back onto a route that was successful & kept the staff happy.

What really would you do.

I can tell you exactly what I would do.

1. I would register a timetable with the TC's office that accurately reflects running times;
2. I would look at why staff are unhappy and try to remedy it while remembering at the same time that you run the company, not them. If you start letting drivers call the shots you are on a very, very sticky wicket indeed.

[Bryan]

Steve already explained why staff don't like the 74 - largely due to the depot being in Smethwick & the length of time it takes to get to/from Stafford

I would have thought that was a bonus for the staff, getting paid for driving a bus without the hassle of passengers!

Or is that the real reason it was withdrawn, too much mileage with no revenue?