The Green Bus

[Tony]

Would I be right in thinking this would exclude Travel Express and Select, and possibly Banga too from the city centre unless they can afford to upgrade?

Remember Wolverhampton is still two years away before Euro 5 kicks in, so Select already have one bus fit for 2020, in the next two years some of the vehicles from those fleets will need replacing anyway, so they have had warning and will need to replace them with suitable vehicles. They have 3 years to sort out for Euro 6, by which time I would imagine some elderly London buses will be on the market with traps fitted for them to buy.

Travel Express will either also have to buy a tin of paint, or buy all their buses from one operator as livery is another specification, but again they could get around that by buying half a dozen trapped London Darts and just have London Red as their livery.

[Trident 4194]

Remember Wolverhampton is still two years away before Euro 5 kicks in, so Select already have one bus fit for 2020, in the next two years some of the vehicles from those fleets will need replacing anyway, so they have had warning and will need to replace them with suitable vehicles. They have 3 years to sort out for Euro 6, by which time I would imagine some elderly London buses will be on the market with traps fitted for them to buy.

Travel Express will either also have to buy a tin of paint, or buy all their buses from one operator as livery is another specification, but again they could get around that by buying half a dozen trapped London Darts and just have London Red as their livery.

Diamond have many different liveries too. Will this rule apply to them?

[Tony]

Diamond have many different liveries too. Will this rule apply to them?

The livery rule applies to everyone, so while your changing livery Diamond's Black & Blue are OK, at the moment they are breaking AQPS rules in Birmingham by using 30502 and the white Solos as the rules state you should not use vehicles in a previous operator's livery.

[winston]

The livery rule applies to everyone, so while your changing livery Diamond's Black & Blue are OK, at the moment they are breaking AQPS rules in Birmingham by using 30502 and the white Solos as the rules state you should not use vehicles in a previous operator's livery.

Do operators currently get fined for breaking AQPS rules? Or just a wrap on the knuckles at present?

[Tony]

Do operators currently get fined for breaking AQPS rules? Or just a wrap on the knuckles at present?

It is for the TC to enforce AQPS.

If TfWM notice any rules being broken they can report them to the TC who can call operators to a Public Inquiry.

[winston]

It is for the TC to enforce AQPS.

If TfWM notice any rules being broken they can report them to the TC who can call operators to a Public Inquiry.

I assume TfWM are yet to do that.

Do all operators have to sign up to the AQPS Scheme? Or is a mandatory requirement to comply with requirements if they want to enter that area with their services

[Tony]

I assume TfWM are yet to do that.

Do all operators have to sign up to the AQPS Scheme? Or is a mandatory requirement to comply with requirements if they want to enter that area with their services

It is a requirement to sign up if you wish to use any of the bus stops within the AQPS area with a stage carriage service that meets the rules of that particular AQPS. So there would be nothing to stop an operator registering a service that ran through the area, as long as they didn't want to stop within it. They all normally have a rule that the service has to also stop within 2km of the area, so for instance someone could register a service starting in Solihull, running non-stop to Chelmsley Wood, then all stops to Sutton Coldfield and it wouldn't have to meet the rules

[winston]

It is a requirement to sign up if you wish to use any of the bus stops within the AQPS area with a stage carriage service that meets the rules of that particular AQPS. So there would be nothing to stop an operator registering a service that ran through the area, as long as they didn't want to stop within it. They all normally have a rule that the service has to also stop within 2km of the area, so for instance someone could register a service starting in Solihull, running non-stop to Chelmsley Wood, then all stops to Sutton Coldfield and it wouldn't have to meet the rules

Doesn't allowing an operator to still run through said areas using non compliant buses defeat the object of introducing low emission zones / raising quality standards etc? I expected the AQPS zone to be enforced / operators must comply once they enter the zone regardless.
   

[Tony]

Doesn't allowing an operator to still run through said areas using non compliant buses defeat the object of introducing low emission zones / raising quality standards etc? I expected the AQPS zone to be enforced / operators must comply once they enter the zone regardless.

The Birmingham one is being extended out as far as, and including the 8 route. No one in their right mind would register a service through that without stopping

[winston]

The Birmingham one is being extended out as far as, and including the 8 route. No one in their right mind would register a service through that without stopping

If it's being extended that far out of the City then that's okay, I just think keep things simple / don't create any potential loop holes I.e. as per the London Congestion Scheme, one you cross the in to the zone you pay full stop.

The school buses that are excluded from AQPS emission requirements are typically the most polluting, even though they may only have 1 AM & PM departure

[DJ]

Remember Wolverhampton is still two years away before Euro 5 kicks in, so Select already have one bus fit for 2020, in the next two years some of the vehicles from those fleets will need replacing anyway, so they have had warning and will need to replace them with suitable vehicles. They have 3 years to sort out for Euro 6, by which time I would imagine some elderly London buses will be on the market with traps fitted for them to buy.

Travel Express will either also have to buy a tin of paint, or buy all their buses from one operator as livery is another specification, but again they could get around that by buying half a dozen trapped London Darts and just have London Red as their livery.

Thanks for explaining it a bit better, I wasn't really aware of the details for Wolverhampton. From what I've seen over the past few months of commuting to Wolverhampton and back most days, Travel Express only really use their red vehicles with the 'Let's Go!' branding, I don't think I can recall seeing any of their non-red buses.

Do you know if any of Banga's buses are compliant at all? They have a nice uniform fleet, but their Solo's don't exactly seem to be the cleanest of buses. Also, how would this effect the council's free shuttle bus that runs round the centre? Would that have to be made compliant or would that be exempt?

[Tony]

Banga doesn't have any Euro 5 so needs to sort his fleet out by 2020

[Steveminor]

The livery rule applies to everyone, so while your changing livery Diamond's Black & Blue are OK, at the moment they are breaking AQPS rules in Birmingham by using 30502 and the white Solos as the rules state you should not use vehicles in a previous operator's livery.

Technically though Tony 30502 is wessex which is their own operation while the white solos are dealer stock, so home of those are in a previous operators livery. However they couldn't use the arriva liveried darts as they are still in a previous operators livery.
Solihull aqps still has 2 operators breaking the scheme with drivers not having a uniform & buses taking extended breaks up at the station. The trouble with the schemes is that they aren't enforced as rigerously as they should be.

[Tony]

This is the form all operators signed for the Birmingham SQPS
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/media/1184/birmingham-city-centre-sqps-operator-undertaking.pdf
As you can see the maximum penalty is £550 times the number of vehicles operated or exclusion from some routes.

Steve you are wrong about 30502 and white vehicles.

The rules clearly state in 2.8.1

Vehicles must be..........in appropriate finished livery,
which clearly identifies either the bus operator or branded route.

so Claribels' E200 do not do either.


section 2.8.2 states
No vehicles are to be used which remain in a livery belonging to a
previous operator under any circumstances or bear any previous
operator's branding or other information.

Wessex while being in the same ownership is a separate operator with a separate operator's license

[mranon]

I thought select might have a couple of buses that meet criteria, would imagine their 2 enviros wouldn't be far off, and I'm sure their ex lothian spds might be trapped. as for banga, wouldnt their primo comply? arriva would have to watch what vehicles they use on the various versions of the 10, and 9 service too