The Green Bus

[Steveminor]

You have to remember mr jones had his gingers in a lot of pies so to speak with a lot of ltd companies. Peoples express ltd lion speed ltd pro bus ltd Pete's travel ltd county bus ltd greyhound management services ltd Britannia travel ltd.
I won't say any more , you work it out & come to your own conclusions.
What I will say is if it wasn't successful how did they afford brand new tridents.

[Justin Tyme]

... match them bus for bus. I took it a step further by trying to outnumber the competition if possible & reduce the fares giving the passenger little choice but to catch our buses.

How long before Ian Mack & TGB come calling in redditch.
That's what I'd do.

I have never worked in the bus industry, but I know that "match them bus for bus" is a sound and usually necessary strategy in a bus competition situation (although North Birmingham Busways showed that does not always have to be the case).  Stagecoach for example  have used it in many parts of the country, such as North Devon and South Queensferry.

BUT ... for a smallish operator like TGB it sounds like a high risk strategy to me.  Surely you need deep pockets to withstand the losses you will make until you win (assuming you do)?  And very deep pockets indeed if you compete on several fronts?

[winston]

You have to remember mr jones had his gingers in a lot of pies so to speak with a lot of ltd companies. Peoples express ltd lion speed ltd pro bus ltd Pete's travel ltd county bus ltd greyhound management services ltd Britannia travel ltd.
I won't say any more , you work it out & come to your own conclusions.
What I will say is if it wasn't successful how did they afford brand new tridents.

Yes, I'm aware it doesn't pay due to tax liabilities for your limited company to show it's earning large profits.

Fair point with the Tridents, but at the same time weren't they operating a large fleet ex London General Citybuses which looked pretty battered in the finish, many of which had paper route numbers in the windscreen

[Tony]

You have to remember mr jones had his gingers in a lot of pies so to speak with a lot of ltd companies. Peoples express ltd lion speed ltd pro bus ltd Pete's travel ltd county bus ltd greyhound management services ltd Britannia travel ltd.
I won't say any more , you work it out & come to your own conclusions.
What I will say is if it wasn't successful how did they afford brand new tridents.

They didn't! Those Tridents were never paid for, that is why they went!

[the trainbasher]

I'd go all out with wright b7s & a low fare gimmick/offer (whatever you want to call it).
Put the buses back just in front of hansons & put my best drivers on it. It would take literally weeks before hansons started to really hurt & have to consider their next move "probably withdrawal".
If you want to be successful don't fanny about against your competitor be ruthless & just bully them about.
If hansons didn't withdraw after a month or so then double the frequency & run the 226 every 15 mins really starving hansons of passengers.

So basically you're suggesting doing a Cardiff Bus then...the OfT would be pleased :-)

In fact couldn't it be a potential breach of S18(1) of the Competition Act 1998 (The 1998 Act.). This could be as per the Cardiff case. The 1998 Act herein states that Subject to section 19, any conduct on the part of one or more undertakings which amounts to the abuse of a dominant position in a market is prohibited if it may affect trade within the United Kingdom. (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/41/section/18)

I'd go all out with wright b7s & a low fare gimmick/offer (whatever you want to call it).
Put the buses back just in front of hansons & put my best drivers on it. It would take literally weeks before hansons started to really hurt & have to consider their next move "probably withdrawal".
If you want to be successful don't fanny about against your competitor be ruthless & just bully them about.
If hansons didn't withdraw after a month or so then double the frequency & run the 226 every 15 mins really starving hansons of passengers.

That was the line I took against diamond with AM PM on the 71 Sunday service. Run just in front with my most competative drivers & best darts I had (yes I know darts against centros, but it's all I had.)
When diamond didn't withdraw I registered every half our 71 sutton to Solihull inter working with a 71E every half hour chelmsley wood to Solihull. That gave us a 15 min service along the busiest section of route against diamonds 30 frequency. There was no way diamond wanted to fight that.
In fact not even NXWM wanted to compete with that when they introduced the 72 on Sundays they chose not to run beyond chelmsley until after the AMPM downfall & the 71 returning to half hourly frequency with diamond.

I'm surprised either Hansons or Diamond haven't registered a 226E going Merry Hill - Kford only inbetween their 30 min departures so they coincided with the other op, as it would only use 2 buses and take some custom from the other op. Custom from Kford to Dudley seems to be patchy.

It's always been patchy - even when TWM did the 264/265. Why do you think that they came off?

[wilmotm (Matt Wilmot)]

Seems passengers are starting to prefer the 22 over the 002, seen countless people asking how often they run and what times, and remarking on how good value it was (word is quickly spreading, with £1 single/£1.25 day ticket being displayed on the front LEDs). One gent on 117 this afternoon used some colourful language to describe how terrible he thinks Diamond are on the 002.

Business is looking good, I think.

Some people will always say that though... It seems moaning about diamond has become the new sport in Redditch,ever since they took over, again, much of it exaggerated and rude. I'm not being funny though but diamond are far more frequent, far newer buses and have more of a network in the black country so I'm surprised "countless" people prefer them. The truth of the matter is people will not wait behind another 15 minutes for a TGB when diamond aren't expensive in the first place. The fares are probably nothing more than an initial gimmick anyway...

The fares are an introductory offer, not a 'gimmick'. Even the full fare day, week and month tickets will still be considerably cheaper than Diamond and NX.

YJ51 EKF which we passed a couple of times doesn't look too modern to me. That's the magic of TGB, despite being 13+ years old, the unsuspecting passenger would not know the age difference between their Tridents and a B7RLE, let alone a knackered DAF... I'm limited as to what I should say on a public forum, but I do not think Diamond set a particularly high standard of competition

I'm sorry but an "introductory offer" must be the definition of a gimmick: a cheap one off that won't last long. That is 1 out of the 6 buses on the 002, the same age as TGB's newest vehicles and I can assure you YJ51EKF is the one of the best DAFs and hasn't been knackered in London like TGB's tridents. I think the average passenger could work out a b7rle/centro is newer than a cold, damp ex London decker...!

Being a regular user of the 002 I tell you as a passenger and as an enthusiast I would much prefer a Trident of any age over the Diamond 002 Centro's, they have to be some of the worst built buses going. Uncomfortable seats on the majority of them, especially the Urban 90 one, they all rattle and shake like crazy, and one has had a really loud axle knock for at least 2 years now. They are also fairly cramped and useless for the infirm and pushchairs due to having only one small buggy bay, and are often in desperate need of a wash most of the time, especially the black Royale ones, need I go on?

[Steveminor]

Winston the metrobuses & city buses were bought because the price they were offered at was too good to say no (even if they were crap) ultimately they proved more reliable than the tridents & when both were put on the same route carried the same amount of passengers, which is probably why Kevin got rid of the tridents.

Trainbasher the oft wouldn't get involved as neither are the major operator in the area & just because NX can't make a route pay doesn't mean someone else with lower overheads can't.

[nifty50]

TGB 22 is carrying fresh air on the City end of route. Incorrect roadside publicity not helping. Perhaps its busier Merry Hill end?

[Tony]

Winston the metrobuses & city buses were bought because the price they were offered at was too good to say no (even if they were crap) ultimately they proved more reliable than the tridents & when both were put on the same route carried the same amount of passengers, which is probably why Kevin got rid of the tridents.

Trainbasher the oft wouldn't get involved as neither are the major operator in the area & just because NX can't make a route pay doesn't mean someone else with lower overheads can't.

Metrobuses at Pete's travel?
If I remember correctly I was told by the MD of another operator who was offered the Tridents there was still £70,000 each owing on the HP. They were being sold because to keep payments up on them would have finished the company off. He was offered tham at about the £70,000 each so Pete's actually made no money out of the sale but did save themselves a lot of oustanding payments/interest.

[PM]

Winston the metrobuses & city buses were bought because the price they were offered at was too good to say no (even if they were crap) ultimately they proved more reliable than the tridents & when both were put on the same route carried the same amount of passengers, which is probably why Kevin got rid of the tridents.

Trainbasher the oft wouldn't get involved as neither are the major operator in the area & just because NX can't make a route pay doesn't mean someone else with lower overheads can't.

Metrobuses at Pete's travel?
If I remember correctly I was told by the MD of another operator who was offered the Tridents there was still £70,000 each owing on the HP. They were being sold because to keep payments up on them would have finished the company off. He was offered tham at about the £70,000 each so Pete's actually made no money out of the sale but did save themselves a lot of oustanding payments/interest.

Yeah Pete's had several BYV...X metrobuses amongst others.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44483738@N05/4285512977/in/photolist-7wGnGM-7wGYoV-aS1ykr-ipGWSX-kGQsm2-ipH5V1-8cASy5-aS1UnZ-kzyfdE-aS2BXc-aaugKC-aauhCu-dkAVek-jcSjSq-7XcpSh-aRZZKx-bxYfbY-bxYfdf-8EGujp-bNgzCR-8N65iS-aS2jUF-9kLTP4-kGQsKt-kzw7sz-81dNdE-8NkQeN-8EGkQz-8EG71v-8F2kVm-cBvaEf-8zQHhe-igccBo-8uGX9n-aoij5H-jzetXR-jzgG7q-hDU7sP-igctna-8h9P35-8qWDkd-8qWj4S-8u9kCx-jcPwBR

[nitromatt1]

22 is increasing to every 30 minutes throughout the day. Don't know when though. New timetables were on the 22's today.

[4747]

That was the line I took against diamond with AM PM on the 71 Sunday service. Run just in front with my most competative drivers & best darts I had (yes I know darts against centros, but it's all I had.)
When diamond didn't withdraw I registered every half our 71 sutton to Solihull inter working with a 71E every half hour chelmsley wood to Solihull. That gave us a 15 min service along the busiest section of route against diamonds 30 frequency. There was no way diamond wanted to fight that.
In fact not even NXWM wanted to compete with that when they introduced the 72 on Sundays they chose not to run beyond chelmsley until after the AMPM downfall & the 71 returning to half hourly frequency with diamond.

In fairness to Diamond their 71 was a centro tender not a commercial service.

[nifty50]

22 is increasing to every 30 minutes throughout the day. Don't know when though. New timetables were on the 22's today.

Its always been 30 minutes

[nitromatt1]

22 is increasing to every 30 minutes throughout the day. Don't know when though. New timetables were on the 22's today.

Its always been 30 minutes

Nope, it's been hourly from 10-2ish during the day

[fleetline6477]

22 is increasing to every 30 minutes throughout the day. Don't know when though. New timetables were on the 22's today.

Its always been 30 minutes

Nope, it's been hourly from 10-2ish during the day

Last Saturday they were running every 30 minutes throughout the day.