The Green Bus

[nitromatt1]

Matt, people knew about the vinyl wrap on the 11* trident as you posted it further up in the thread.....

Sorry, officer. I'm turning a little senile in my old age.

In my defence, I was adding that I'm 99% sure it's 112.  I'm reliably informed it's actually 113...

[Trident 4609]

Matt, people knew about the vinyl wrap on the 11* trident as you posted it further up in the thread.....

Sorry, officer. I'm turning a little senile in my old age.

In my defence, I was adding that I'm 99% sure it's 112.

Did anyone see which buses were on the 22 today? :)

[bususer12]

Diamond do have newer buses than TGB, but I will side with Matt on the fact that the average passenger wouldn't really be able to tell that a trident is that much older than a b7.
To me it just seems that double Deckers age slower than single Deckers in the passengers eyes & I think that is a true fact I mean what lasted longer & aged better metrobuses or mk 2 nationals.

The one thing diamond do not do well is compete, they have lost a lot of head to head competative routes & much smaller operators have had quite a lot of success against them.
Time for diamond to up their game?

But surely the winner in all this is the passenger, they have gained additional services between Birmingham & Woodgate & between Woodgate & Halesowen/Merry Hill. That can only be good.

Personally i think that Diamond do compete well with other companies, look at services like 4/4H & 226. Only saw a Diamond 4H heading out of Halesowen on Monday Lunchtime towards Walsall and there must have been 30 people on it, i don't remember the 417 doing that well when they ran it and now of course NE run the 4H to.

With the 226, now that Diamond run every a 15 minute frequency with Hanson, you tend to see buses equally loaded. Once again people on the 226 route benefit from an improved service.

Going to catch a 22 from Merry Hill on Friday and take it all the way to Birmingham, see what the loadings are like?

The branded buses on the 226 have really had it though now. Going up Tiled House Lane and Rangeways Road 16 hours a day 7 days a week isn't the softest of rounds. Other than that the 226 has improved over the new year.

[Steveminor]

Re: the 226. Diamond split the headway with hansons because when they were head to head they were getting the ass kicked. Yes the 4h can carry some good loads but when it was Pete's 404E their takings were much healthier & more buses with these better loads.
Diamond could be so much better & profitable if only simon would stop holding back so much & just go for it like his brother Scott has done with your bus.

To be fair to Simon he had his fingers burned badly with the 37 35E &126 then lost a lot of ground on the 904 & 97 which is probably why he is so hesitant at head to head stuff now. But that is really down to lazy central connect drivers in a couple of cases & poor route choices in others. I don't think his management team is hungry enough & adept enough for the real fight that's needed to develop a competative business.

In the case of claribels going from strength to strength, I'd hardly call staying on the same 3 routes since time immemorial going from strength to strength & the only time they tried a new route the 57 all those years ago it was a COMPLETE FAILURE

[nitromatt1]

Matt, people knew about the vinyl wrap on the 11* trident as you posted it further up in the thread.....

Sorry, officer. I'm turning a little senile in my old age.

In my defence, I was adding that I'm 99% sure it's 112.

Don't take that tone with me! Was just pinpointing something that you said which was incorrect (Which you are guilty of yourself)

Anyway moving on did anyone see which buses were on the 22 today? :)

I don't remember saying anything incorrect.

110, 111, 115, 117, 122, 123.

[bususer12]

Re: the 226. Diamond split the headway with hansons because when they were head to head they were getting the ass kicked. Yes the 4h can carry some good loads but when it was Pete's 404E their takings were much healthier & more buses with these better loads.
Diamond could be so much better & profitable if only simon would stop holding back so much & just go for it like his brother Scott has done with your bus.

To be fair to Simon he had his fingers burned badly with the 37 35E &126 then lost a lot of ground on the 904 & 97 which is probably why he is so hesitant at head to head stuff now. But that is really down to lazy central connect drivers in a couple of cases & poor route choices in others. I don't think his management team is hungry enough & adept enough for the real fight that's needed to develop a competative business.

In the case of claribels going from strength to strength, I'd hardly call staying on the same 3 routes since time immemorial going from strength to strength & the only time they tried a new route the 57 all those years ago it was a COMPLETE FAILURE

Steve if you were in Simon's shoes, seeing what Hansons offering is on the 226 (02 Reg Midi's), what would you allocate, go all out and go one better?

[John]

Its one of the NK51's being prepared for a wrap advert

It is not 112 as that was on the 50 today

[nitromatt1]

Its one of the NK51's being prepared for a wrap advert

It is not 112 as that was on the 50 today

Yes, I've been reliably informed it's actually 113. Like I said, I'm going senile... ;)

[Steveminor]

I'd go all out with wright b7s & a low fare gimmick/offer (whatever you want to call it).
Put the buses back just in front of hansons & put my best drivers on it. It would take literally weeks before hansons started to really hurt & have to consider their next move "probably withdrawal".
If you want to be successful don't fanny about against your competitor be ruthless & just bully them about.
If hansons didn't withdraw after a month or so then double the frequency & run the 226 every 15 mins really starving hansons of passengers.

That was the line I took against diamond with AM PM on the 71 Sunday service. Run just in front with my most competative drivers & best darts I had (yes I know darts against centros, but it's all I had.)
When diamond didn't withdraw I registered every half our 71 sutton to Solihull inter working with a 71E every half hour chelmsley wood to Solihull. That gave us a 15 min service along the busiest section of route against diamonds 30 frequency. There was no way diamond wanted to fight that.
In fact not even NXWM wanted to compete with that when they introduced the 72 on Sundays they chose not to run beyond chelmsley until after the AMPM downfall & the 71 returning to half hourly frequency with diamond.

[Stuharris 6360]

I'd go all out with wright b7s & a low fare gimmick/offer (whatever you want to call it).
Put the buses back just in front of hansons & put my best drivers on it. It would take literally weeks before hansons started to really hurt & have to consider their next move "probably withdrawal".
If you want to be successful don't fanny about against your competitor be ruthless & just bully them about.
If hansons didn't withdraw after a month or so then double the frequency & run the 226 every 15 mins really starving hansons of passengers.

That was the line I took against diamond with AM PM on the 71 Sunday service. Run just in front with my most competative drivers & best darts I had (yes I know darts against centros, but it's all I had.)
When diamond didn't withdraw I registered every half our 71 sutton to Solihull inter working with a 71E every half hour chelmsley wood to Solihull. That gave us a 15 min service along the busiest section of route against diamonds 30 frequency. There was no way diamond wanted to fight that.
In fact not even NXWM wanted to compete with that when they introduced the 72 on Sundays they chose not to run beyond chelmsley until after the AMPM downfall & the 71 returning to half hourly frequency with diamond.

They would not be allowed to put there buses back in front of Hansons, am sure that Centro stopped them the last time.

[Steveminor]

Centro could not stop them if they wanted to do it. It is upto the operator to choose their commercial timetable not the authority.
Last time centro I believe acted as a "peace keeper" to try & get the best result for the passengers, which was a joint 15 min frequency. My plan would be to give centro what they want a 15 min frequency, but do it myself without hansons buses taken into account.

[bususer12]

I'd go all out with wright b7s & a low fare gimmick/offer (whatever you want to call it).
Put the buses back just in front of hansons & put my best drivers on it. It would take literally weeks before hansons started to really hurt & have to consider their next move "probably withdrawal".
If you want to be successful don't fanny about against your competitor be ruthless & just bully them about.
If hansons didn't withdraw after a month or so then double the frequency & run the 226 every 15 mins really starving hansons of passengers.

That was the line I took against diamond with AM PM on the 71 Sunday service. Run just in front with my most competative drivers & best darts I had (yes I know darts against centros, but it's all I had.)
When diamond didn't withdraw I registered every half our 71 sutton to Solihull inter working with a 71E every half hour chelmsley wood to Solihull. That gave us a 15 min service along the busiest section of route against diamonds 30 frequency. There was no way diamond wanted to fight that.
In fact not even NXWM wanted to compete with that when they introduced the 72 on Sundays they chose not to run beyond chelmsley until after the AMPM downfall & the 71 returning to half hourly frequency with diamond.

Thanks, the gung ho technique as you have explained, works either as the big man or little man for either side.(It appeared NX flooded the 246 when AMPM were on it, as well as the 9 when Diamond were on that.

I'm surprised either Hansons or Diamond haven't registered a 226E going Merry Hill - Kford only inbetween their 30 min departures so they coincided with the other op, as it would only use 2 buses and take some custom from the other op. Custom from Kford to Dudley seems to be patchy.

[winston]

Re: the 226. Diamond split the headway with hansons because when they were head to head they were getting the ass kicked. Yes the 4h can carry some good loads but when it was Pete's 404E their takings were much healthier & more buses with these better loads.
Diamond could be so much better & profitable if only simon would stop holding back so much & just go for it like his brother Scott has done with your bus.

To be fair to Simon he had his fingers burned badly with the 37 35E &126 then lost a lot of ground on the 904 & 97 which is probably why he is so hesitant at head to head stuff now. But that is really down to lazy central connect drivers in a couple of cases & poor route choices in others. I don't think his management team is hungry enough & adept enough for the real fight that's needed to develop a competative business.

In the case of claribels going from strength to strength, I'd hardly call staying on the same 3 routes since time immemorial going from strength to strength & the only time they tried a new route the 57 all those years ago it was a COMPLETE FAILURE

Re: Claribels, I was referring to the quality of the operation not their size, they seem pretty happy with the size of operation that they have including the Birmingham International Coaches business. They regularly invest in new vehicles annually and now have a very modern fleet with a low average age. Also NX don't seem to be too bothered by them & seem fairly happy to co exist on the routes Claribels compete on

[Steveminor]

That certainly give whoever did that an advantage, as the bus that's a k'ford could just sit & wait for its target to appear in the distance then head off & take his passengers.

I learned the gung-ho approach from Kevin jones at Pete's travel, who used it to their advantage pretty much across the network. Kevin always said match them bus for bus. I tookit a step further by trying to outnumber the competition if possible & reduce the fares giving the passenger little choice but to catch our buses. We beat TWM several times with that approach markedly the night service where the 9N "arguably the busiest" was increased to every 15 mins at one point. Together with the full on attack on the 50 & 97 something had to give & it did. Pete's withdrew the 50 & strangely at the same time TWM withdrew ALL night buses in birmingham.

Now of course as you have pointed out NX use those tactics of dominate & control to attempt to smash the competition. If that happens you have to hold on & fight back. Not sit back & give up.

Simon held on in redditch "ok first ain't the best competitior" but for his troubles rotala now have control of redditch.
How long befor Ian Mack & TGB come calling in redditch.
That's what I'd do.

[winston]

Steve,

If those tactics were so successful at Pete's Travel/People's Express, how come at the time of sale to Go-Ahead Group Plc Probus Management only made £118k profit on a turnover of £9.1 Million up to the year ending Dec 2004 i.e. a 1.3% profit margin?

http://www.busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=633&categoryid=0