Pushchair users v Wheelchair user

[AndrewLee]

Pre booking I don't think is a viable option. Inevitably someone will rock up on the off chance of getting on and being refused just leads to a headache for the driver. Also, a space may have been booked and the person fail to turn up. The bus might not even turn up for that matter. Anything could happen eg mechanical breakdown or RTC etc. 

[AndrewLee]

In my experience of driving buses (which is limited). Certain routes take wheelchair users more than others and by the same token these passengers are usually regular and know the score. I try to assist as much as I can and get recognised by these passengers because of it. One example is one day a guy in a 'chair gets on and off we go. Ten mins up the road there's another wheelchair user waiting for my service. I stop (lots of drivers would drive straight past) to explain to him I can't let him board as I've got one already. I carry on. Two stops later an elderly lady berates me in front of everyone because I didn't pick him up. When the first guy gets off he said he felt bad because the bloke waiting was in a worse state than he was - this from a guy with no legs!!  Point is doesn't matter what you do or how you do it you can't make everyone happy all of the time.

[Stu]

I've seen the abuse some drivers have received when they politely try to explain to a mum with a pushchair trying to get on that there are already two buggies on board and they'll have to fold up their buggy or wait for the next bus, and this was on the 37 which operates every few minutes anyway.

Drivers just can't win either way, it must be worse if a service operates every 30 mins or hourly though and there's not enough room.

[Sh4318]

I think the wheelchair user should always receive first priority, but that's just my opinion

What makes a wheelchair user any different from any other disabled person? Are we saying that someone with an amputated finger should be able to get on a full bus at the expense of someone in front of him in the queue?

I'm disabled myself, I'd rather a wheelchair user go ahead of me in the queue if the only seating option was a fold down chair

Well for one, the wheelchair user can't use their legs! The wheelchair user doesn't have the freedom to sit wherever they want. Seating is very limited. Like I said, in my opinion, the wheelchair user should always get first priority

[Kevin]

Only one space allowed on the bus for wheelchairs who pre book.

What would be the point in that when Ring and Ride already exists?

[notepanel]

I think the wheelchair user should always receive first priority, but that's just my opinion

What makes a wheelchair user any different from any other disabled person? Are we saying that someone with an amputated finger should be able to get on a full bus at the expense of someone in front of him in the queue?

I'm disabled myself, I'd rather a wheelchair user go ahead of me in the queue if the only seating option was a fold down chair

Well for one, the wheelchair user can't use their legs! The wheelchair user doesn't have the freedom to sit wherever they want. Seating is very limited. Like I said, in my opinion, the wheelchair user should always get first priority

But this is where it gets messy. Whilst yes there are lots of wheelchair users who do fully require a wheelchair, there are numerous who do have mobility, but find it easier to use the chair. 

There is one man I've seen board buses before, who pushes his wheelchair onto the bus and then sits in it. 

It is far too simplistic to have a rule 'wheelchair users should always get priority'. There will be situations where the wheelchair user can transfer to a seat far more easily than a mother may be able to pick up their child and fold down the pram. 

It is also important to remember, this case wasn't just about mothers with prams. It includes elderly people with shopping trolleys/zimmer frames and any able-bodied people stood or sat in the wheelchair bay.

If the judgement had stood - would it have included people standing on a bus full to capacity in the wheelchair bay?

[JoNi]

It also depends on the frequency of services along the route the person in a wheelchair wants to board. While on a Optare Solo recently which had a pushchair already on board it stopped where an intending customer was waiting in a wheelchair. The driver pointed to the Real Time Information and said the next bus is in a minute which the wheelchair user accepted preventing delay to my and fellow passengers journeys. With staff like that no wonder the bus company was Bus Operator the year.

[Liverpool Street]

It also depends on the frequency of services along the route the person in a wheelchair wants to board. While on a Optare Solo recently which had a pushchair already on board it stopped where an intending customer was waiting in a wheelchair. The driver pointed to the Real Time Information and said the next bus is in a minute which the wheelchair user accepted preventing delay to my and fellow passengers journeys. With staff like that no wonder the bus company was Bus Operator the year.

Which company was this?

[JoNi]

Nottingham City Transport at a stop in West Bridgeford where all buses were going to the Nottingham city loop with next buses clearly visible on Real Time Information.

[tank90]

You could use the same aurgument with Disabled and Parent & Child car parking. Because on this score no parent with a child in a push chair that is a monster can be told to move there car to allow a disabled customer park. Why do I say that because most bus companies like car parking firms display the wheel chair sticker on the front of the bus and some times in the window of the bay. So what is the difference when painted on tarmac?

My personal opinion is that all buses should have two bays at the front on each side one with wheel chair users in mind and those who have Zimmers, then one on the other side for zimmers and buggies.

And the zones to be marked out like in a carpark. Because if my mum parked in a Parent and child space with me (yes im 24 but I'm still her child) she would be asked to move. As would a mother with a baby or toddler parking in a disabled space so why can't it happen on a bus?

But I do think with DDA buses parents and grandparents siblings have gotten into the habit of buying bulky buggies and prams which need a tool box to fold up to fit into a luggage rack or next to you in the seat well. I remember the light weight buggy my mum had in the early to mid 90's she could fold it up and put it on a bus or in the boot of a classic polo, but with some of the buggies today you need a van.

[the trainbasher]

You could use the same aurgument with Disabled and Parent & Child car parking. Because on this score no parent with a child in a push chair that is a monster can be told to move there car to allow a disabled customer park. Why do I say that because most bus companies like car parking firms display the wheel chair sticker on the front of the bus and some times in the window of the bay. So what is the difference when painted on tarmac?

My personal opinion is that all buses should have two bays at the front on each side one with wheel chair users in mind and those who have Zimmers, then one on the other side for zimmers and buggies.

And the zones to be marked out like in a carpark. Because if my mum parked in a Parent and child space with me (yes im 24 but I'm still her child) she would be asked to move. As would a mother with a baby or toddler parking in a disabled space so why can't it happen on a bus?

But I do think with DDA buses parents and grandparents siblings have gotten into the habit of buying bulky buggies and prams which need a tool box to fold up to fit into a luggage rack or next to you in the seat well. I remember the light weight buggy my mum had in the early to mid 90's she could fold it up and put it on a bus or in the boot of a classic polo, but with some of the buggies today you need a van.

Exactly. Where I live we used to have Merry Hill Minibuses and Midland Red West (Kiddy depot) and both routes had steppys on. Lances for the MRW route and Sherpas/MCW Metroriders/Optare Metroriders for the TMH route.

The buggy I used to be put it was as lightweight as anything so it could be folded up easy (and when i outgrew it, my brother had it, then my other brother had it. Lightweight and built to last.

Working in a parking department my biggest bugbear is people who don't have a blue badge parking in those spaces (often business people or mothers with their baby's. They have normal parking spaces for them in Dudley (only 1 or 2 council car parks in the whole borough have P&T bays...)

Parents today have got so used to abusing facilities for the disabled like BB bays, or in the case of buses, wheelchair areas, that's why I advocate a return to parents folding up the pushchairs as compulsory, as a national bus policy.

[Dutsey]

Parents used to abusing facilities for the disabled like BB bays, or in the case of buses, wheelchair areas, that's why I advocate a return to parents folding up the pushchairs as compulsory, as a national bus policy.

Surely this would result in the loss of patronage from mothers. This day and age we should be encouraging more people to use public transport not give more reasons not to?

[Stu]

Maybe the solution is to reduce the number of seats?  ;)

Take out all the seats at the front, just have a couple of rows at the back, put in more grab-rails to hold onto. Plenty of room for buggies and wheelchairs!

But I bet you'd still have people crowding in the narrow gangway or by the driver, making it a struggle to actually get on or off the bus.

[Kevin]

Maybe the solution is to reduce the number of seats?  ;)

Take out all the seats at the front, just have a couple of rows at the back, put in more grab-rails to hold onto. Plenty of room for buggies and wheelchairs!

But I bet you'd still have people crowding in the narrow gangway or by the driver, making it a struggle to actually get on or off the bus.

Ok... Let's take the piss and take it one step further...
All buses should be dual door deckers, with no seats whatsoever downstairs.

[Mike K]

Advocating compulsory folding up of buggies is unrealistic these days. Like it or not, a bit like modern cars, modern buggies are huge compared to how they were a few decades back. Many of them are 'transport systems' incorporating car seats and all sorts. Both my kids have been out of pushchairs for a little while now but take it from me, getting on a bus with a 2 year old and a 4 year old, trying to fold a modern buggy whilst attempting to hold a 2 year old and stopping the 4 year old falling flat on her face is no laughing matter.

I know parents had to do this years ago. But wheelchair users had to take a taxi years ago. Times change, pushchairs have changed, buses have changed.

The situation that prompted all this debate is an unusual one. There are relatively few wheelchair bus users and most parents with buggies would do what they could to help accommodate the wheelchair on the bus. We should get things into perspective.