Central Buses

[Westy]

Arriva Cannock also came very close to being bought out by TWM (NX) some years ago and the plan was to absorb their routes and operate out of Walsall depot. This was before Arriva acquired Chase.

Nothing stopping them now surely, apart from Monopolies & Mergers surely?

I'd be interested to see how much of Central's routes are hung onto, in the long run by Diamond, commercial or tendered.

If routes are being ditched by the big boys, for cost reasons, surely there's going to be a shortage of small operators willing to take on the routes eventually, if they keep being bought out by the big boys & looking at the Chase Bus situation on the other thread, I wouldn't hold my breath on them personally!

[DeanM66A]

I can't see who would be willing to sell out though?

Anybody if the price is right.  Especially independents established and grown by individuals who are tempted to cash in for their retirement.

A number of notable omissions from this morning's speculations:
the three smallish geographically separate First Midlands operations: Stoke, Leicester and Worcester;
Transdev - just acquired Rosso;
Go-Ahead - bought Swindon last year;
Claribels.

And I suspect that a careful watch is being kept on some of the remaining "municipalities".  How sustainable are some of these?  Look at the age profile of fleets such as Halton and Warrington.

[winston]

Nothing stopping them now surely, apart from Monopolies & Mergers surely?

I'd be interested to see how much of Central's routes are hung onto, in the long run by Diamond, commercial or tendered.

If routes are being ditched by the big boys, for cost reasons, surely there's going to be a shortage of small operators willing to take on the routes eventually, if they keep being bought out by the big boys & looking at the Chase Bus situation on the other thread, I wouldn't hold my breath on them personally!

I can't really see NX adding Arriva Cannock ops causing too much interest from the Dft / Oft, especially if they were looking to invest & grow them. Select also run some routes in those areas, as will Rotala via Central Buses soon

By acquiring Arriva Wednesfield, Hanson's & Central Buses, Rotala have effectively removed three competitors for TfWM Black Country area tendered routes, which may help to push up prices and can obviously extract more profit from absorbing those independents due to synergies.

[winston]

Anybody if the price is right.  Especially independents established and grown by individuals who are tempted to cash in for their retirement.

A number of notable omissions from this morning's speculations:
the three smallish geographically separate First Midlands operations: Stoke, Leicester and Worcester;
Transdev - just acquired Rosso;
Go-Ahead - bought Swindon last year;
Claribels.

And I suspect that a careful watch is being kept on some of the remaining "municipalities".  How sustainable are some of these?  Look at the age profile of fleets such as Halton and Warrington.

First Midland Red Limited (Worcester) only made a £32k profit up to March 25th 2017, they reported a £1.28 Million loss the year prior on closure of Hereford.
Leicester Citybus is one of First UK Bus better performing op's, however profit fell from £3.39 Million in 2016 to £2.06 Million @ 25th March 2017.

Warrington are in the process of taking 13 x E200MMC's to up date their fleet, Halton appear to be struggling & I've seen online that Stagecoach are eyeing them up.

[Tony]

First Midland Red Limited (Worcester) only made a £32k profit up to March 25th 2017, they reported a £1.28 Million loss the year prior on closure of Hereford.
Leicester Citybus is one of First UK Bus better performing op's, however profit fell from £3.39 Million in 2016 to £2.06 Million @ 25th March 2017.

Warrington are in the process of taking 13 x E200MMC's to up date their fleet, Halton appear to be struggling & I've seen online that Stagecoach are eyeing them up.

Do you know how First South Yorkshire are doing last year? They're another bit I have heard might be struggling.

[winston]

Do you know how First South Yorkshire are doing last year? They're another bit I have heard might be struggling.

First South Yorkshire Limited £4.530 Million operating loss (25th March 2017) compared with £2.02 Million loss 2016
First Manchester Limited £5.164 Million loss (25th March 2017) compared with £1.273 Million profit 2016.

The figures are pretty dire across most First Group Opoco's,

[Tony]

First South Yorkshire Limited £4.530 Million operating loss (25th March 2017) compared with £2.02 Million loss 2016
First Manchester Limited £5.164 Million loss (25th March 2017) compared with £1.273 Million profit 2016.

The figures are pretty dire across most First Group Opoco's,

You shouldn't be losing money in PTE areas. First West Yorkshire is still OK isn't it

[winston]

You shouldn't be losing money in PTE areas. First West Yorkshire is still OK isn't it

FWY is £11.7 Million down from £16 Million the year before.

Ever heard of Google & Companies House.....😋🤣

While it's commendable that First are putting 41 new buses in to Kernow this year, they're never going to generate the growth & profit they could if put in to a PTE op.

[Tony]

Just looking at the Market capitalisation of the big 4 (which is the total value of the shares of the company)

£625,740,000 - Go-Ahead group
£780,890,000 - Stagecoach
£1,190,000,000 - First group
£1,800,000,000 - National Express

How times change, when NX were in danger of a takeover Stagecoach was a much more valuable company than National Express, Now NX are worth more than twice as much as Stagecoach.

[winston]

Exactly, hence my comments earlier that NX are well positioned to take advantage of the current market & potential sell off's.

Maybe NX could offer to merge with Stagecoach this time around, it's the only way Souter will get his hands on NXWM.....

[the trainbasher]

Maybe NX could offer to merge with Stagecoach this time around, it's the only way Souter will get his hands on NXWM.....

Plus would be good for shareholders.

[andy41]

I could have sworn this was the Central Buses thread?

[winston]

Diamond's 20883 on loan to Central Buses:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/stanjack/40088636552

[Kevin2017]

One and all, the 3 deckers will be allocated to Tividale mainly for the 39 40 42, and will stray to other services that can take the deckers, all other allocations have yet to be confirmed.

21108   EU06KOX
21109   EU06KPA
30896   EU06WGM
21110   EU06JVW
30897   AE06ZBR
30898   AE06ZBT
21105   BU12LJL
21106   BU12LJN
30899   BU12LJO
21107   BU12LJV
30900   MX56YHA
20886   YJ59PKA
20887   YJ59PKE
20888   YJ59PKD
30901   YX63ZXK
30902   YX63ZXL
30903   YX64VLZ
30904   YJ57XVT
30905   YJ57XVW
30906   YJ57XVX
30907   YJ57XVY
30908   SK15GYA
40630   PN03UMJ
40631   PN03ULU
40632   PN03ULV
30909   YJ16DDL
30910   YJ16DDN
30911   YJ16DDO
30912   YJ16YJH
30913   YJ16YJJ
30914   YJ16YJK

[Trident 4194]

@Kevin2017 how do you know this?