The End of the Benz (and B10L)

[The Real 4778]

The refurb'd Mercs don't look bad, it's just the squareness of the body design & lack of curves, particularly the rear end.

I would say the Mercs styling-wise actually look older than the B10L's, the body design of the B10L has aged very well, as it was clearly very well built.

That strikes a chord here.  The Mercs have an obvious family likeness to their new sisters working for Arriva out to Tamworth and Kingsbury on occasion, which I do find particularly lovely.  However, there are none of these with WM.

The B10Ls' design retains a family resemblance in certain details and curves to the Wrights stuff currently on WM stock, and I think this helps it have a more contemporary feel and look.  Same is also true of the B6.

[Stevo]

And the B10L  was always uncommon - there were never very many outside the Nat Ex fleets and now they're positively rare. The 0405N was more or less unique to Nat Ex and the 196 plus artics that TWM bought might be more than the total of all B10Ls delivered in the UK. I went on 1685 on TWM livery on the WN 82 today - not bad but a bit clonky and rather faded. At least TWM livery doesn't show the rust!

[Ashley]

If I'm honest I wouldn't miss the B10L's that much, uncomfy, sweaty, dirty, dull engine note.

Mercs, fires aside are far better, unique bodywork, much more comfort, much more fun

B6LE's, everyone has a memory, majority of people hate them, like the Mercs, not perfect, but both still a thousand times better than any Enviro, any OmniStink , any tree hugger machines etc etc

[j789]

Neither is as good as the Lynx. That survived up to 2008/9 and being non low floor think did better to survive the 19+years than these 2 types especially when you think that some of the Mercs actually replaced some of the Lynxs in the late 90s.

Always thought whoever designed that Merc body must have like the Metrobus design as it had a rather inefficient square profile roof as well.

[Mike K]

If I'm honest I wouldn't miss the B10L's that much, uncomfy, sweaty, dirty, dull engine note.

Mercs, fires aside are far better, unique bodywork, much more comfort, much more fun

B6LE's, everyone has a memory, majority of people hate them, like the Mercs, not perfect, but both still a thousand times better than any Enviro, any OmniStink , any tree hugger machines etc etc

I'm very much in the B10L camp on this one, still smart and modern looking today, and I see no issues with comfort, engine note (or dirt or sweat for that matter!?). Quite why TWM didn't go on to buy B10BLEs, which continue to give good service at other operators elsewhere in the country, is puzzling.

The Mercs have been reasonable vehicles in many respects, although they are deteriorating at quite a rate now. But I can't get past the look. Hideous. If they were ladies they might be described as having a "nice personality".

[Tony]

If I'm honest I wouldn't miss the B10L's that much, uncomfy, sweaty, dirty, dull engine note.

Mercs, fires aside are far better, unique bodywork, much more comfort, much more fun

B6LE's, everyone has a memory, majority of people hate them, like the Mercs, not perfect, but both still a thousand times better than any Enviro, any OmniStink , any tree hugger machines etc etc

I'm very much in the B10L camp on this one, still smart and modern looking today, and I see no issues with comfort, engine note (or dirt or sweat for that matter!?). Quite why TWM didn't go on to buy B10BLEs, which continue to give good service at other operators elsewhere in the country, is puzzling.

They did, but they were all allocated to Dundee garage

[Liberator9]

The B10Ls have done excellently - having had the pleasure of having them on my local routes up until 2010, I can say they performed extremely well. They rarely broke down, and the suspension and comfort relatively good. The engines and gearbox still function very well today.

When refurbished (like 1415 http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/1317-1514/1415.html ) the Liberators look fantastic. Certainly the TWM examples.

They are just a bit too warm on hot days, but nearly all NX buses are! Plus they can get very rattly - I rode 1408 a few days ago and certainly rattled like mad, but it adds character! Scanias and Eclipses will remain the modern favs - I think both types are very good in regards to comfort and certainly not worse than the Mercs or Liberators. The Mercs have been very good - they have started to become troublesome but for their age that is expected, and the styling is not as elegant as the Wrights either. But I remember one trip in 2011 on a Mercs on the 246 which was fantastic - really fast and smooth riding.

Scanias, Wrights and Mercs, whatever the age, are all certainly better than the Optare Solos and Versas I currently have to suffer daily - break down way too often, shoddy suspension.

[Mike K]

If I'm honest I wouldn't miss the B10L's that much, uncomfy, sweaty, dirty, dull engine note.

Mercs, fires aside are far better, unique bodywork, much more comfort, much more fun

B6LE's, everyone has a memory, majority of people hate them, like the Mercs, not perfect, but both still a thousand times better than any Enviro, any OmniStink , any tree hugger machines etc etc

I'm very much in the B10L camp on this one, still smart and modern looking today, and I see no issues with comfort, engine note (or dirt or sweat for that matter!?). Quite why TWM didn't go on to buy B10BLEs, which continue to give good service at other operators elsewhere in the country, is puzzling.

They did, but they were all allocated to Dundee garage

A valid point, I forget that Dundee is part of the same group.

[winston]

Neither is as good as the Lynx. That survived up to 2008/9 and being non low floor think did better to survive the 19+years than these 2 types especially when you think that some of the Mercs actually replaced some of the Lynxs in the late 90s.

Always thought whoever designed that Merc body must have like the Metrobus design as it had a rather inefficient square profile roof as well.

The Lynx were good for acceleration & performance & had quite unique styling. Their suspension didn't absorb the bumps very well & they were more like boneshakers over rough road services with all the rattles, doors jumping out the tracks etc. A large chunk of the Lynx fleet went quite early on to Highland Country & Ireland for school buses, there were only a handful of the 250 that survived in to 2008/9.

The B10L's are far more refined and still are.

[The Real 4778]

I recall having 2453 one morning in early 2007 shortly before its withdrawal, and then a Lynx on a Moseley route back into city. 

I was aware of 2453's significance, as last Mk1, and thought I'd never have another Lynx either.  But when the last quintet suddenly appeared at Walsall, I had quite a few trips on them.  Even abandoning one errand in the car to do an out and back on the 377 from the Beggar's Bush.  That extended outing generated a few negative comments from the wife!

Like I said earlier, I love the LEGO-brick approach that the O405N's stylist adopted. 

[Bob]

Wow I thought all the mk1s went by about 2003/4

[The Real 4778]

Wow I thought all the mk1s went by about 2003/4

You're probably right.  2453 is a very early MkII.  The highest numbered MkI was 2435 which has contributed to my confusion. 

By 2007, 2453 was the only survivor in the 24xx-25xx range if I recall correctly.

That's better.

[Liverpool Street]

Meh. I still can't believe people can drive or travel on these 'new' buses and think they're good. I certainly don't. And I'm not being bitter or negative, I'm saying my truth, and that is, when the Fleetlines were new, they were smooth and nice, as was themeMetrobuses, the lynxs were rough but the speed made up for it. I fail to recall the Nationals for an opinion. Even up to recently, the B10's new were smooth and nice, and the Tridents / B7's were impressive to go into after a metro. However, we're being force fed this shit from the EU to accept lower cylinders, lower power output for fuel saving, a harsher ride no doubt to save money from somewhere, and in all honesty, in all damn industries nowadays, its all machined computerized un-personal crap.

I'm with 4778, once the -1999 buses are gone, which leaves us nothing to link with the 'most modern olden days' then alot of enthusiasts will come away from this scene.

Heck, anyone still remember the beastiality of the N113's? Gah, what a bus. You would not be running late with one of them. You wouldn't be stopping at bus stops on target either but thats besides the point.

[The Real 4778]

The N113s were so immense and with us for such a short period, I sometimes think I imagined them.  I had left school by the time the H-LOMs arrived, and apart from one gig somewhere down the 50 route (I remember the band I saw but not the bus in question), I have very little recollection of travelling on them.

The Nationals were great fun.  The early ones sounded like sewing machines though.  The T and V-reg came with proper seat upholstery - but even the elephantide (vinyl) earlier ones had so  much character.  Sutton had several - starting with ex-Midland Red examples, although I don't remember them specifically.  They would show up on weird routes that have long since mutated.  I think the old 166 might have been booked for one.  I would sometimes flag an Ailsa on the 42/ 107/ 113 to rake one in. 

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5524/11784716714_3961141f40.jpg

[Bob]

All the T reg ones had red vynide seats the same as the R and S ones the M and N reg had a slightly different but still red vynide and silver grab rails whereas later ones had a slightly different interior. Black grabrails I think and the glass screen between the stepped rear seating area had gone too. Always wondered what those were for maybe to stop as much smoke travelling down the bus?  If you were allowed to smoke at the back that is. Only the mk2 examples had the metrobus moquette.  The R & S reg DP examples had possibly the most comfortable seating ive ever been on!  Awesome. ..walsall had a couple in the late 80s I think