Night Only Buses

[Russ Smith]

With the 900 and 50 gaining some form of night service this summer, as well as last year's 97A, it seems that NX is interested in running night service again. Apart from high-frequency existing services that will be covered (those mentioned above, plus say the 63 and 74), some routes would probably need modifying, either to serve more people or to take advantage of lower traffic levels etc - for example the Erdington services. Just thought I'd set up this thread for people to share their own ideas for night-only or modified routes for night services.

For example: https://www.flickr.com/photos/97045091@N06/14445579003/player/

Would run from New Street Station, via Broad Street and The Vale to the QE Hospital, then through one of Selly Oak's streets (probably Dawlish) to a terminus at Stirchley Co-op. Could be useful for those requiring the QE Hospital, or the high-density student areas of The Vale and Selly Oak, picking them up at key locations (New Street and Broad Street, whilst serving the o2, Snobs etc on the way).

[Kevin]

Not convinced, for me night bus routes need to be the same as day routes. Potentially they could be shortened versions, like a 98 route only as far as Northfield (just a random example of the top of me head). Having said that, I imagine a Sutton route such as a 104 using the Lichfield Rd instead of the expressway.

[OH25]

I don't know how NX plan to do this, but with the night buses in London, they are either an extension of the daytime route or a slight variation of it.
(For example 68 goes from West Norwood to Euston during the day but the N68 goes from Old Coulsdon to Tottenham Court Road but still goes through pretty much the same route until the extension)

Maybe NX could do something like that?
just throwing it out there as an idea .. the 61/63 could have a night bus version that does serve Rubery Great Park .. maybe space to interwork?
however it could get slightly confusing for those who don't really pay attention

[PM]

The issues I see with night buses are as follows:

1) Presumably higher fares need to be charged

2) Buses can't go near Broad Street which is most people's destination on a night out

3) Driver safety and safety in general-with arson on some routes during the daytime, would this not be more likely on quieter night services?

4) Drunk passengers and no doubt a fair bit of cleaning required the morning after due to goodness' knows what. Worth the damage to modern vehicles?

5) Most people prefer to be dropped back home by a taxi which isn't any more if you're in a group anyway... Most people would have to walk from the bus when they get off

6) Issues with tramps sleeping on buses and riding end-to-end as happens in London.

Having said that, I know some shift-workers would find them useful and not all people are incapable of catching a bus after a night out. I think the essential things though are:

1) Similar, if not the same, routes and numbers and preferably stopping places as daytime services, so as to avoid confusion

2) Simple, easy to understand fares, with passes valid.

3) Single deck vehicles with monitoring and back up if required-in case of difficult passengers etc.

[Tony]

The issues I see with night buses are as follows:

1) Presumably higher fares need to be charged

No, Standard fares will be charged and travelcards accepted

[PM]

Thanks for that info Tony :)

So that is one major difficulty and confusion out of the way as most night services-Lothian/Nottingham/Trent Barton and even Diamond's Worcester night services charged higher fares. That should simplify things for potential users and ensure NX can compete on price with taxis.

[Kevin]

2) Buses can't go near Broad Street which is most people's destination on a night out
4) Drunk passengers and no doubt a fair bit of cleaning required the morning after due to goodness' knows what. Worth the damage to modern vehicles?
5) Most people prefer to be dropped back home by a taxi which isn't any more if you're in a group anyway... Most people would have to walk from the bus when they get off

...

1) Similar, if not the same, routes and numbers and preferably stopping places as daytime services, so as to avoid confusion

2) and 5) are near enough answered by 1) in my eyes. People using public transport get into a sort of autopilot "this is where my bus goes from and this is where it drops me off" so if they're out drinking on broad st, they WILL walk/stumble through town to get their bus from Moor St (or wherever) and WILL walk/stumble the half mile from their bus stop back home

4) I'll be honest, having been a University student some daytime / evening routes have had the same problems

[Sh4318]

These would be my proposals for night services on major corridors (they're just shortened versions of existing routes):
9E to Quinton Church (or Halesowen)
87E to Oldbury
61E to Northfield
22E to Harborne
94E to Castle Bromwich
74E to West Bromwich
904E to Sutton
51 to Walsall
45E to Cotteridge
6E to Robin Hood Island

I'm sure I'm leaving out one or two corridors there, but oh well

[Kevin]

These would be my proposals for night services on major corridors (they're just shortened versions of existing routes):
9E to Quinton Church (or Halesowen)
87E to Oldbury
61E to Northfield
22E to Harborne
94E to Castle Bromwich
74E to West Bromwich
904E to Sutton
51 to Walsall
45E to Cotteridge
6E to Robin Hood Island

I'm sure I'm leaving out one or two corridors there, but oh well

I'd actually say 63E to Longbridge instead of northfield

[Tony]

These would be my proposals for night services on major corridors (they're just shortened versions of existing routes):
9E to Quinton Church (or Halesowen)
87E to Oldbury
61E to Northfield
22E to Harborne
94E to Castle Bromwich
74E to West Bromwich
904E to Sutton
51 to Walsall
45E to Cotteridge
6E to Robin Hood Island

I'm sure I'm leaving out one or two corridors there, but oh well

Why run shorts like that, Most of the areas that need serving are at the end of the route. Nothing to Solihull, most of the Pershore Road business would probably come from past Cotteridge, and the same with the Harborne Corridor, very few passengers on that route from Harborne compared with past Harborne

[Liverpool Street]

These would be my proposals for night services on major corridors (they're just shortened versions of existing routes):
9E to Quinton Church (or Halesowen)
87E to Oldbury
61E to Northfield
22E to Harborne
94E to Castle Bromwich
74E to West Bromwich
904E to Sutton
51 to Walsall
45E to Cotteridge
6E to Robin Hood Island

I'm sure I'm leaving out one or two corridors there, but oh well

Why run shorts like that, Most of the areas that need serving are at the end of the route. Nothing to Solihull, most of the Pershore Road business would probably come from past Cotteridge, and the same with the Harborne Corridor, very few passengers on that route from Harborne compared with past Harborne

Very correct.

The above point is noticeable at workers' peak time - You note where the bus stops more often. Yes, it'll drop off one or two along the Pershore but you're stopping at every stop after Cotteridge dropping off the City's workers. You'll have to run it the full route of a night, or you'll achieve nothing.

[Sh4318]

These would be my proposals for night services on major corridors (they're just shortened versions of existing routes):
9E to Quinton Church (or Halesowen)
87E to Oldbury
61E to Northfield
22E to Harborne
94E to Castle Bromwich
74E to West Bromwich
904E to Sutton
51 to Walsall
45E to Cotteridge
6E to Robin Hood Island

I'm sure I'm leaving out one or two corridors there, but oh well

Why run shorts like that, Most of the areas that need serving are at the end of the route. Nothing to Solihull, most of the Pershore Road business would probably come from past Cotteridge, and the same with the Harborne Corridor, very few passengers on that route from Harborne compared with past Harborne

I was targeting the busier sections of each corridor. If you run night buses along the Harborne corridor, do you run night services on all Harborne routes?

[trident4370]

Okay, as a rough "Off the top of my head" list, how does this sound... WN1E Wolves - Dudley, YW2E to Warstock, WA4, WB5, YW6, PE9, 11A/C, BC14, BC22, PB33, AG37, BC45, YW50E to Maypole, WA51, BC63, PB67, AG71, WB74, WB87E to Oldbury, PB94E, 97A obviously, BC99E QE-Brum, WN126, WN529, BC900, PB904E to Sutton. All routes every 60 minutes apart from 99E which has enough time to run every 30 with one vehicle. There might seem like a lot there but I'll bet a couple could be interworked somehow to keep vehicle numbers and waiting time as low as possible. I'd also try and keep as many as possible single deck operated, especially the WB5 and OC.

[Kevin]

Okay, as a rough "Off the top of my head" list, how does this sound... WN1E Wolves - Dudley, YW2E to Warstock, WA4, WB5, YW6, PE9, 11A/C, BC14, BC22, PB33, AG37, BC45, YW50E to Maypole, WA51, BC63, PB67, AG71, WB74, WB87E to Oldbury, PB94E, 97A obviously, BC99E QE-Brum, WN126, WN529, BC900, PB904E to Sutton. All routes every 60 minutes apart from 99E which has enough time to run every 30 with one vehicle. There might seem like a lot there but I'll bet a couple could be interworked somehow to keep vehicle numbers and waiting time as low as possible. I'd also try and keep as many as possible single deck operated, especially the WB5 and OC.

Personally I'd love there to be routes other than just brum city routes at night, but I really doubt they would ever happen.

[monkeyjoe]

Back in the 90's didn't they used to have a load of mammoth Mid Red routes which used to be combinations of various corridors and would take forever to get to places :- A few examples.


912 City - Alum Rock - Castle Brom _ Chelmsley Wood - Castle Vale - City
916 City _ Hockley - Hamstead - Kingstanding - Perry Barr - City.


I couldn't imagine people having the patience to sit on such routes these days.