Night Only Buses

[j789]

From that list surely the X51 would be a better bet than the normal 51, especially if running a night 33 as well. Also, if there was no 24 night route then a full length 99 would be better as it would serve significant areas of Harborne and Quinton otherwise missed. Personally I would like an all night 144 (obviously run by First!!!) but I cant see the management implementing that anytime soon. A taxi to Bromsgrove from Brum is £30+ at night so there would be opportunity to attract patronage. There can be a fair few passengers on the 11:20pm service from Brum so possibilities exist I guess!

[monkeyjoe]

I can't really see the demand for a 71N if they can't even run the evening service on a commercial basis.

[trident4370]

I'll be honest, I'm not totally convinced that lack of demand is the reason NXWM won't touch the evening 71 atm... Although you are right, they wouldn't run a Night 71 either!

[Russ Smith]

From that list surely the X51 would be a better bet than the normal 51, especially if running a night 33 as well. Also, if there was no 24 night route then a full length 99 would be better as it would serve significant areas of Harborne and Quinton otherwise missed. Personally I would like an all night 144 (obviously run by First!!!) but I cant see the management implementing that anytime soon. A taxi to Bromsgrove from Brum is £30+ at night so there would be opportunity to attract patronage. There can be a fair few passengers on the 11:20pm service from Brum so possibilities exist I guess!

Suppose NX could hop on with some form of a 98A to Rednal Hare & Hounds then via Marlbrook and Catshill to Bromsgrove, I would personally put money on the 98 (or 98A) being just as successful as one of the other routes with two large termini, such as 37 or 51.

[trident4370]

From that list surely the X51 would be a better bet than the normal 51, especially if running a night 33 as well. Also, if there was no 24 night route then a full length 99 would be better as it would serve significant areas of Harborne and Quinton otherwise missed. Personally I would like an all night 144 (obviously run by First!!!) but I cant see the management implementing that anytime soon. A taxi to Bromsgrove from Brum is £30+ at night so there would be opportunity to attract patronage. There can be a fair few passengers on the 11:20pm service from Brum so possibilities exist I guess!

Sorry, missed this post earlier. My only worry with an X51 would be the patchy stops between Perry Barr and Scott Arms, and if you have a 33 aswell you could combine then to provide a 30 minute frequency to PB... Although imagine a full length night X51 that went all the way to Cannock :P As for the 24/98/99 I'll be honest I'm not too familiar with the 20s past Harborne so a 24 probably would be a better choice than 22 you're probably right. I did also think about 144 but as it isn't NXWM I didn't bother mentioning it although I suspect it could do well.

[Russ Smith]

In terms of 'Harborne' services, I'd probably go with 23A and 24, there wouldn't really be a sensible terminus for the 99 and I doubt many of those who use the 24 even know of the 99 yet, although there is the issue that the 24 may be a bit too short to run commercially - remember that, for a group of 4, it's cheaper to get a taxi than £7 on a bus for anywhere within 2 or so miles of town.

Edit: Actually, completely forgot about the 29 - I'd say a 29 to Frankley would be the best bet, removes the need for a 61 pretty much. Would keep another Harborne service but can't decide if it should go to Woodgate Valley or Bartley Green.

[trident4370]

Removing the need for a 63 to Frankley would be good, could either have a 63E to Rubery, or dare I say it going by earlier conversation... a special 63N to Bromsgrove? :P

[Tony]

In terms of 'Harborne' services, I'd probably go with 23A and 24, there wouldn't really be a sensible terminus for the 99 and I doubt many of those who use the 24 even know of the 99 yet, although there is the issue that the 24 may be a bit too short to run commercially - remember that, for a group of 4, it's cheaper to get a taxi than £7 on a bus for anywhere within 2 or so miles of town.

Remember the £7 is return on the bus though, so if you have come into town on the bus it is a free ride home

[Russ Smith]

In terms of 'Harborne' services, I'd probably go with 23A and 24, there wouldn't really be a sensible terminus for the 99 and I doubt many of those who use the 24 even know of the 99 yet, although there is the issue that the 24 may be a bit too short to run commercially - remember that, for a group of 4, it's cheaper to get a taxi than £7 on a bus for anywhere within 2 or so miles of town.

Remember the £7 is return on the bus though, so if you have come into town on the bus it is a free ride home

Haha yeah sorry, so used to getting the 0450 98E which counts as next day service. Although, tickets (i.e the £7 evening groupsaver) are only valid until 0159 - so you'd have to be returning home on the 0103 service, which is a bit too early. Or leaving your house at 2am which I don't think even I've left that late!

I personally think NX need to advertise their acceptance of passes on night services, and drill it into people's brains how much cheaper they are than taxis, it's a brilliant opportunity to grow profits.

[sonic84]

My suggestions would be:

6E Birmingham - Shirley
9E Birmingham - Halesowen
22 Birmingham - Kitwell
33 Birmingham - Pheasey
37 Birmingham - Solihull
45N Birmingham - Cotteridge - West Heath - Turves Green - Cotteridge - Birmingham
50 Birmingham - Maypole
51 Birmingham - Walsall
61N Birmingham - Northfield - Longbridge - Frankley - Northfield - Birmingham
94 Birmingham Chelmsley Wood
905E Birmingham - Four Oakes
957 Birmingham - Solihull

[PM]

The point @Russ Smith raises is a good one. It'd be good if there was a way of creating a night-return ticket which was valid into town presumably before midnight and then out of town during the early morning, as unless you had a travelcard the ticket wouldn't be valid. And if you're gonna go to town on a night out, you're not going to be heading back before midnight.

It must be really awkward for students who live miles out of the town centre and have to get buses/trains/taxis back from a night out though. I'd hate it-walking back's way more fun anyway  ;)

[Mike K]

From that list surely the X51 would be a better bet than the normal 51, especially if running a night 33 as well. Also, if there was no 24 night route then a full length 99 would be better as it would serve significant areas of Harborne and Quinton otherwise missed. Personally I would like an all night 144 (obviously run by First!!!) but I cant see the management implementing that anytime soon. A taxi to Bromsgrove from Brum is £30+ at night so there would be opportunity to attract patronage. There can be a fair few passengers on the 11:20pm service from Brum so possibilities exist I guess!

Sorry, missed this post earlier. My only worry with an X51 would be the patchy stops between Perry Barr and Scott Arms, and if you have a 33 aswell you could combine then to provide a 30 minute frequency to PB... Although imagine a full length night X51 that went all the way to Cannock :P As for the 24/98/99 I'll be honest I'm not too familiar with the 20s past Harborne so a 24 probably would be a better choice than 22 you're probably right. I did also think about 144 but as it isn't NXWM I didn't bother mentioning it although I suspect it could do well.

A night 22 would make more sense than a 24, and going back over the years there's always been a Bartley Green bus rather than a Woodgate Valley N one. The 22/23 has the higher daytime frequency and a stretch of the 24 between Harborne baths and Quinton Tesco could be within a walkable distance of a 22N or 9N. Not having a 22N would leave a much larger area of B32 without a bus.

If they do introduce a full night network of course.

[Steveminor]

It was the 914 that ran up wash wood Heath rd to CWood & back to city via alum rock.
Back in Pete's travel vs WMT night service days the 914 & 916 of Pete's carried considerably more than their WMT counterparts that ran along the existing daytime routes.
Pete's 50N also used to loop back from Druids Heath to cover some of the 35 route. Again this proved more popular than WMT.
Those were fun times with both companies competing heavily in the early hours of the morning, however most of the routes were carrying so few passengers they were commercially unviable for both companies. The ones which were particularly poor were 50, 22, 58, 47, 5(Pete's) 6(twm) & the 37 with the 104 only having enough passengers to sustain one operator (whoever got to city first)
The 9 was the best service of all & after WMT withdrawal from night service was increased to every 15 mins at one point.
Not too long ago even sunny travel operated a 9N until the driver left & they couldn't find anyone willing to drive it. Until that time it had been quite successful.
I would question as to NXWMs choices to start their night operations, why no 9 & why start with 2 of the quieter night routes (ok so the airport are partly funding the 97).
Personally I can't quite see them being as successful as they think or want them to be without putting in some homework & reviewing their historical data. Plus to be successful a wider network needs to be established quickly so as to gain the publics attention.
People also need to feel safe, this was achieved in Bristol by having door safe staff on the buses. In reality if things "kicked off" their was little they could do, but it was & still is a great detterant & comfort to those who use the service.
If a night network really is to succeed in bham it really needs someone to put in some thought & also think outside the box & unfortunately I can't see NXWM or any other midland operator capable of doing that. I do stand to be corrected but I'm not holding my breath

[Stuharris 6360]

Surely if you are going to develop a night bus service, you need to decide exactly what you want.

Firstly do you want a 7 day a week night service, or a weekend night service with weekday services on a few routes. My feeling on this is the latter, until a case could be made for buses running during weeknights.

Where do you want your night services to run, a lot of people think that it is just Birmingham that need night buses but surely all major Black Country cities & Towns deserve some sort of Night Service.

In Birmingham, base all the night services on one hub, London did this originally basing all Night Services on Trafalgar Square. Originally in London there were a handful of routes running once an hour, now they are a success with many routes and frequencies on one route of every 3 minutes on Friday & Saturday night.

Advertise them well, and don't give up on them if to start with they don't work.

[Liberator9]

The main concern I have regarding night buses is the safety and vandalism issues. I may be generalising but I am sure that at nighttime there is more likely to be trouble onboard and vandal damage, which is going to be dentrimental as some of that revenue will just be going right back out on bus interior repairs. If there could be a system like Bristol with the extra staff it could work well though. Perhaps also keep some of the older buses in a sort of "night fleet" so if they are damaged it won't be so annoying as having damage done to newer buses.