VERY Late running services

[metrocity]

From the article:

If Villa want to increase their capacity, they should work with the WMCA and include funding for an expansion of the two train stations and funding for additional public transport that they require to take their "freezing fans" (whom have spent the last two hours freezing in the seats whilst watching the game) home safely.

I think you either haven't read the article properly or have a fundamental lack of understanding of the issue

[Westy]

1646 Wa 9 departure from Wolverhampton running roughly 20 to 25 mins late.

Sister currently by the bingo hall in Wednesfield on 1894.

Traffic on go slow.

[andy41]

Incidentally your claim that the 65s were running ok is not correct, the 2306 from Court Lane to city was 24 minutes late starting that journey due to delays on Lichfield Road. That bus had not been on the 7, so it wasn't just the interworking causing problems

I was referring to the journeys from city, 2 of which passed me while I waited. One at 2230 and another just before 11pm.

[cardew]

With respect this has absolutely nothing to do with NX's failure to operate its schedules bus services which are there to transport people to and from work, leisure and other socially required activities regardless of a football match.

Not directly I grant you, and I wasn't intending it as an excuse, but it could easily have added to the congestion with people who would normally have used public transport being concerned about missing their last connections from the city centre and going by car instead. Not provable so I will say no more on the matter

[j789]

Sorry Andy you aren't living in reality with your claims about NXWM. It's clearly been explained what the issue was/is and that it will be a issue industry wide for at least the next 6 months until the visa issue is sorted, amongst other things.

You say you have the experience in the industry, well you must have either been incredibly lucky in your company to not have any issues or alternatively maybe worked for a small company with nowhere near the problems. Who knows!

Football traffic is notoriously challenging to operate in, particularly later kick offs that coincide with the evening rush hour. I'm been to Villa Park a few times but go to West Brom every home match. The issues are the same there on the Birmingham Road with the 74. Some days the island round J1 on the M5 has been gridlocked causing 2 hour delays. Then the next game the traffic flows freely (like last week against Nottingham Forest). No company can realistically plan to run extra buses on the off chance there is a significant delay- it's not economically viable.

You never have anything positive to say about NXWM yet seem to think certain other companies round here would operate routes better. No they wouldn't, they would face the same issues as NXWM do and it would be the same.

Same goes for the clowns arguing for London style contracts - let's see how the non-bus using citizens of the West Midlands like having to massively subsidise routes through taxes because Norman from Caste Vale wants an every 10 minute service to operate at 10pm.

Just accept that industry wide the situation is very difficult at the moment - over the last 10 years, NXWM have not consistently missed out services like the situation you experienced. It was unfortunate yes but, at the moment, you've got to accept that the situation is far from perfect.

Stagecoach, First, Arriva are suffering just as much as any other company. You need to take things with a ounce of salt here and understand the reality of operation in this environment - you say you have the experience so I don't understand why you can't comprehend this?

[andy41]

Sorry Andy you aren't living in reality with your claims about NXWM. It's clearly been explained what the issue was/is and that it will be a issue industry wide for at least the next 6 months until the visa issue is sorted, amongst other things.

You say you have the experience in the industry, well you must have either been incredibly lucky in your company to not have any issues or alternatively maybe worked for a small company with nowhere near the problems. Who knows!

Football traffic is notoriously challenging to operate in, particularly later kick offs that coincide with the evening rush hour. I'm been to Villa Park a few times but go to West Brom every home match. The issues are the same there on the Birmingham Road with the 74. Some days the island round J1 on the M5 has been gridlocked causing 2 hour delays. Then the next game the traffic flows freely (like last week against Nottingham Forest). No company can realistically plan to run extra buses on the off chance there is a significant delay- it's not economically viable.

You never have anything positive to say about NXWM yet seem to think certain other companies round here would operate routes better. No they wouldn't, they would face the same issues as NXWM do and it would be the same.

Same goes for the clowns arguing for London style contracts - let's see how the non-bus using citizens of the West Midlands like having to massively subsidise routes through taxes because Norman from Caste Vale wants an every 10 minute service to operate at 10pm.

Just accept that industry wide the situation is very difficult at the moment - over the last 10 years, NXWM have not consistently missed out services like the situation you experienced. It was unfortunate yes but, at the moment, you've got to accept that the situation is far from perfect.

Stagecoach, First, Arriva are suffering just as much as any other company. You need to take things with a ounce of salt here and understand the reality of operation in this environment - you say you have the experience so I don't understand why you can't comprehend this?

Don't patronise me.

You just can't have a word said against your pet PLC who in your eyes can do no wrong.

Tony has already pointed out himself that all buses were operating so the driver shortages is completely irrelevant here, please read the replies again yourself

I have worked for small independents, medium sized operators and large PLC's. The level of performance described here, on a consistent basis as it has been here which I can back up with incident numbers, would not be acceptable to any of those organisations.

Neither is it acceptable to the traffic commissioner since it isn't occurring due to a driver shortage. It is occurring due to lack of foresight and contingency for a foreseeable event. That is a punishable offence if proven regularly for the holder of an operators licence. I have attended several public inquiries and conducted responses to BOM's and am well aware of acceptable windows of tolerance and what is mitigation and what isn't.

Throwing your arms up in the air when buses get stuck when you knew they would in advance is not mitigation for failing to present significant portions of punctual service operation on services where you reduced the frequencies in the first place.

With regards to your claim that we should be grateful that NX deem to offer the late services in the first place, the TC has a solution for operators who find themselves unable to comply with their registration for an unviable commercial service. It's called deregistration.

[metrocity]

Sorry Andy you aren't living in reality with your claims about NXWM. It's clearly been explained what the issue was/is and that it will be a issue industry wide for at least the next 6 months until the visa issue is sorted, amongst other things.

You say you have the experience in the industry, well you must have either been incredibly lucky in your company to not have any issues or alternatively maybe worked for a small company with nowhere near the problems. Who knows!

Football traffic is notoriously challenging to operate in, particularly later kick offs that coincide with the evening rush hour. I'm been to Villa Park a few times but go to West Brom every home match. The issues are the same there on the Birmingham Road with the 74. Some days the island round J1 on the M5 has been gridlocked causing 2 hour delays. Then the next game the traffic flows freely (like last week against Nottingham Forest). No company can realistically plan to run extra buses on the off chance there is a significant delay- it's not economically viable.

You never have anything positive to say about NXWM yet seem to think certain other companies round here would operate routes better. No they wouldn't, they would face the same issues as NXWM do and it would be the same.

Same goes for the clowns arguing for London style contracts - let's see how the non-bus using citizens of the West Midlands like having to massively subsidise routes through taxes because Norman from Caste Vale wants an every 10 minute service to operate at 10pm.

Just accept that industry wide the situation is very difficult at the moment - over the last 10 years, NXWM have not consistently missed out services like the situation you experienced. It was unfortunate yes but, at the moment, you've got to accept that the situation is far from perfect.

Stagecoach, First, Arriva are suffering just as much as any other company. You need to take things with a ounce of salt here and understand the reality of operation in this environment - you say you have the experience so I don't understand why you can't comprehend this?

Have you got your rose tinted glasses on again ?

[j789]

Don't patronise me.

You just can't have a word said against your pet PLC who in your eyes can do no wrong.

Tony has already pointed out himself that all buses were operating so the driver shortages is completely irrelevant here, please read the replies again yourself

I have worked for small independents, medium sized operators and large PLC's. The level of performance described here, on a consistent basis as it has been here which I can back up with incident numbers, would not be acceptable to any of those organisations.

Neither is it acceptable to the traffic commissioner since it isn't occurring due to a driver shortage. It is occurring due to lack of foresight and contingency for a foreseeable event. That is a punishable offence if proven regularly for the holder of an operators licence. I have attended several public inquiries and conducted responses to BOM's and am well aware of acceptable windows of tolerance and what is mitigation and what isn't.

Throwing your arms up in the air when buses get stuck when you knew they would in advance is not mitigation for failing to present significant portions of punctual service operation on services where you reduced the frequencies in the first place.

With regards to your claim that we should be grateful that NX deem to offer the late services in the first place, the TC has a solution for operators who find themselves unable to comply with their registration for an unviable commercial service. It's called deregistration.

What planet are you living on? I'd be very interested to hear what companies those were you were involved in to see where this exception operating practise existed? Did any make a profit as having all these spare buses and drivers available isn't exactly cheap? I really hope you aren't referring to any other West Midlands based operator as historically all those favoured companies by you round here have found themselves in trouble with the traffic commissioner at some point previousl - NOBODY IS PERFECT!

Also, you are the one who needs to read posts carefully. I gave the very real example of the situation in Birmingham Road and M5 J1 every West Brom home game with the 74. The levels of traffic are not predictable at all yet you seem to be arguing that that is still NXWM's fault as they know there will be extra traffic.

What you don't seem to understand is that extra traffic could cause a 15 minute delay one week but the next week it could be 2 hours (like traffic conditions that I have personally experienced this season). According to your business logic, NXWM should have 5 or 6 vehicles on stand by ready to go just in case there is a long delay - after all 'they knew in advance'. It's a nonsensical argument.

If your interpretation of the rules in the current operating environment of driver shortages etc was actually put in practise, every large company in Britain would be receiving a summons to appear before them. It is thankful that the traffic commissioner is showing some common sense during current times with this. A few missed trips are annoying for passengers I get this, but this won't be a long term problem once the driver shortage is sorted. Like I inferred previously, NXWM has operated according to the industry standards prior to the current operating situation so you need to take a step back and think about the ridiculous demands you are making.

Be realistic!

[j789]

Have you got your rose tinted glasses on again ?

No I've got my realism glasses on as I work daily within such an operating environment (not NX by the way) and actually understand the current situation that clearly here others don't seem to fully grasp. It's a huge problem, made worse round in the West Mids by the current poor train services and Metro issues. No doubt that's NXWM's fault too though.

Are you involved in the industry or are you a passenger/enthusiast? They have VERY differing interpretations of the current situation.

[Tony]

No I've got my realism glasses on as I work daily within such an operating environment (not NX by the way) and actually understand the current situation that clearly here others don't seem to fully grasp. It's a huge problem, made worse round in the West Mids by the current poor train services and Metro issues. No doubt that's NXWM's fault too though.

Because Wolverhampton garage isn't suffering as badly as other garages you may notice two PN 61xx buses on loan from tomorrow to provide extra cover on the 79 service, so where possible extra buses and drivers are used to cover problems

[andy41]

What planet are you living on? I'd be very interested to hear what companies those were you were involved in to see where this exception operating practise existed? Did any make a profit as having all these spare buses and drivers available isn't exactly cheap? I really hope you aren't referring to any other West Midlands based operator as historically all those favoured companies by you round here have found themselves in trouble with the traffic commissioner at some point previousl - NOBODY IS PERFECT!

Also, you are the one who needs to read posts carefully. I gave the very real example of the situation in Birmingham Road and M5 J1 every West Brom home game with the 74. The levels of traffic are not predictable at all yet you seem to be arguing that that is still NXWM's fault as they know there will be extra traffic.

What you don't seem to understand is that extra traffic could cause a 15 minute delay one week but the next week it could be 2 hours (like traffic conditions that I have personally experienced this season). According to your business logic, NXWM should have 5 or 6 vehicles on stand by ready to go just in case there is a long delay - after all 'they knew in advance'. It's a nonsensical argument.

If your interpretation of the rules in the current operating environment of driver shortages etc was actually put in practise, every large company in Britain would be receiving a summons to appear before them. It is thankful that the traffic commissioner is showing some common sense during current times with this. A few missed trips are annoying for passengers I get this, but this won't be a long term problem once the driver shortage is sorted. Like I inferred previously, NXWM has operated according to the industry standards prior to the current operating situation so you need to take a step back and think about the ridiculous demands you are making.

Be realistic!

I'm not going to waste lots of oxygen on you because you don't take the information in.

Quite simply. Yes the TC is willing to accept the current driver shortage as mitigation for some none operation where it can be proved that was the cause, like it wasn't here.

On all other fronts, including planning for foreseeable disruption, the rules still apply. If when asked what you did to mitigate the disruption your answer is 'nothing', then action will follow. It's not a case of having 1, 5 or even 10 spare vehicles. Where you run into problems with the TC is where you made no effort. Any small effort made will normally avoid serious action but if you do nothing, the TC will be unsympathetic. NX repeatedly do nothing and throw their arms up and see what comes down.

The TC doesn't expect perfect so consequently I have never had anything to fear.

But nevertheless I know somebody at a large operator who right now is constructing his response to a BOM exercise that is applicable under the current circumstances, so your claim that it's open season out there with the TC at the moment is nonsense.

I'm not going to attempt to educate you any further because you're incapable of a sensible discussion and will defend anything so it's pointless engagement.

[j789]

I'm not going to waste lots of oxygen on you because you don't take the information in.

Quite simply. Yes the TC is willing to accept the current driver shortage as mitigation for some none operation where it can be proved that was the cause, like it wasn't here.

On all other fronts, including planning for foreseeable disruption, the rules still apply. If when asked what you did to mitigate the disruption your answer is 'nothing', then action will follow. It's not a case of having 1, 5 or even 10 spare vehicles. Where you run into problems with the TC is where you made no effort. Any small effort made will normally avoid serious action but if you do nothing, the TC will be unsympathetic. NX repeatedly do nothing and throw their arms up and see what comes down.

The TC doesn't expect perfect so consequently I have never had anything to fear.

But nevertheless I know somebody at a large operator who right now is constructing his response to a BOM exercise that is applicable under the current circumstances, so your claim that it's open season out there with the TC at the moment is nonsense.

I'm not going to attempt to educate you any further because you're incapable of a sensible discussion and will defend anything so it's pointless engagement.

No I won't actually 'defend anything'. What I will do is highlight major flaws in people's constant criticism of a company who is trying to operate as well as possible in the current situation. This doesn't seem to be registering with you for some reason that today is a completely different situation to two years ago - things are very different now and what was expected then cannot be expected in current operating conditions.

Are you actually working today in a transport company? If so, it is even more ridiculous that you keep criticising NXWM. Going back to your original issue with the 67, I don't recall ever seeing you post on here about a positive experience on a NXWM route, perhaps a comfortable, ride and courteous driver or perhaps praise for the multi million pounds investment in buses over recent years.

But no criticising seems far easier for you to do it seems rather than actually give praise for the 99% of time previously when the bus has run on time and not missed a trip. As I said previously, you need to be realistic in the current situation.

[karl724223]

This or I should say you are getting rather boring now  YAWN

[Trident 4194]

So 822 on the 28 has broken down for the 12:05 departure off Halesowen, and the 13:05 looks no where to be seen.

[Wumpty]

So 822 on the 28 has broken down for the 12:05 departure off Halesowen, and the 13:05 looks no where to be seen.

Bustimes shows 834 scrambled to cover the Halesowen-bound leg, with 2106 heading for Stourbridge.